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A life lived in fear is a life half lived.
On this week's Deep Thoughts, Emily brings her analysis, nostalgia--and quite a bit of drool--to the 1992 Baz Luhrmann comedy Strictly Ballroom. Though this indie film, which was Luhrmann's directorial debut, may have gotten lost among the 80s and 90s movies that were bigger blockbusters, the comedy offers an incisive skewering of the insular world of amateur ballroom dancing in regional Australia.
And yet, Luhrmann's direction, the beautiful choreography and dancing by the leads, and the pure joy of Paul Mercurio's Scott Hastings refusing to adhere to arbitrary rules about strict ballroom steps and his willingness to learn from Tara Morice's Fran about the traditional Spanish dance steps brings the viewer along on the journey. As we watch, the film goes from a comedy that exposes the entire ballroom culture as a ridiculous tempest in a teapot to the place where Scott and Fran must make a stand for creativity, art, bravery, romance, and costumes that don't look like someone bedazzled your head.
Unlike many 80s and 90s movies, this one holds up beautifully in 2025 and is delightful from start to finish. If you haven't watched it, please do check it out, possibly before listening to this episode's spoilers. For once, Tracie and Emily's nostalgia was not misplaced!
There's no need to master the bogo pogo before listening in. Just throw on your headphones and let the rhythm move you.
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
We are the sister podcasters Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our extended family as the Guy Girls.
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love 80s and 90s movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, analyzing film tropes with a side of feminism, and examining the pop culture of our Gen X childhood for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, religious allegory, and whatever else we find.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com. For our work together, visit guygirlsmedia.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I feel like ultimately that's what this
(00:01):
story is about.
The Pan Pacific Grand Prix Latindance is meaningless.
It's ridiculous.
But dance is not meaningless.
It's about the dance.
And when you're focusing onwinning this trophy, you've lost
it all.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just about culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
I'm Emily Guy Birkin, and you're listening to
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit.
Because pop culture is stillculture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1992 Boz Lerman filmStrictly Ballroom with my
sister, Tracy Guy Decker.
And with you.
Let's dive in.
(01:01):
So, Tracy, I know you've seenthis because we saw it in the
theater together and absolutelyloved it.
But tell me what you rememberabout Strictly Ballroom.
SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
That's about all I remember, is that I loved it.
Like I feel like you rememberlike whole plot lines of these
movies we saw when we were kids,and I remember how they made me
feel.
So I remember loving it.
I remember that it's aboutballroom dancing in competition
in Australia, I think.
That's it.
That's all I got.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
So tell me why are we talking about strictly
ballroom dancing?
I cannot remember how I wasreminded of it, but somehow I
was reminded of it.
I was like, ooh, I liked thatone.
So I like Boz Lerman as adirector.
He directed the Romeo and Julietthat had Leonardo DiCaprio and
Claire Danes.
Claire Danes.
He also directed Moulin Rouge.
(01:51):
And with Strictly Ballroom,those are considered kind of a
trilogy.
Which is weird as F.
Because very totally different.
Um in some ways.
In some ways, no, they kind ofhang together.
So I just kind of like this waswas gonna be a very light
(02:15):
retread for me.
You know, you talk aboutsometimes you just wanna you
wanna watch a comedy and andfeel good.
And this was I kind of wanted towatch a comedy and feel good.
Also, Paul Mercurio, who playsthe main character, Scott
Hastings.
I did not spend, I did not mindspending an hour and a half
(02:36):
looking at him.
Did not mind that at all.
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
Emily is consistent.
Nothing if not consistent.
SPEAKER_02 (02:46):
Okay.
All right.
Well, so tell me, besides theeye candy, like give me some
like postcards from where we'regoing.
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
The thing that I remember that stuck with me
other than the romantic plot,the thing that stuck with me
about this was the absolutelow-stakes nature of the story
because it is about thepan-Pacific Grand Prix Latin
dance for amateurs.
(03:15):
And it is such a big deal to allof these people.
Like they, it is like they takeit so seriously.
And so we in the audience are inon the joke that this is
ridiculous.
And so that is something that Ireally kind of love about this
movie.
(03:36):
That like we end up like fromthe very beginning, we're like,
oh, this is these people areridiculous.
And then we get into it.
We're like, oh no, it is veryimportant.
And then there's also the senseof like, well, what is
important?
So there's there's that aspectof it, the sense of gatekeeping
that I think is is kind ofreally interesting.
(03:58):
The idea of like, what iscreativity, what is art is
really interesting.
I think there's some reallyinteresting questions about
gender when it comes to creationand art and romance.
And then I didn't don't remembernoticing this at the time, but I
I felt it this time.
There's a sense of white peopleruin everything.
(04:19):
And you know, I feel that way,and I am a white people.
So those are some of the thingsthat we're we're gonna talk
about.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
Okay.
Well, catch me up on the plotsince all I remember is that I
liked it and there's dancing andit's Australian.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
So we are introduced to the world of ballroom
dancing, where Scott Hastingsplayed by Paul Mercurio.
He is the son of a family ofballroom dancers, his mother,
Shirley Hastings, and hisfather, Doug Hastings.
Shirley is a dancer.
His father, Doug, is a veryquiet and meek man, and he seems
to just do like he fixes thingsaround the studio.
(04:57):
The studio belongs to theirfriend Les, I can't remember his
last name, Kendall or somethinglike that.
And so none of the three adults,because Scott is somewhere under
the age of 25, none of the threeadults talk about the past much.
All Scott knows is that Les andShirley danced together and
(05:19):
there was some kind of blow-upamong them before he was born.
So at some sort of opener forthe dance season, Scott and his
partner Liz got boxed in by KenRowlings and his partner Pam
Stone.
And so to get out of that, andboxed in means like they were
(05:42):
stuck in a certain spot on thedance floor.
On the dance floor.
Okay.
Yeah.
So to get out, Scott starteddoing his own dance steps that
were not quote unquote strictlyballroom.
And when it starts, it's alittle bit like a documentary.
So there's a point where likethey're interviewing Scott's
parents and they're interviewingLiz.
And Liz says, like, I had nochoice where the man goes, the
(06:06):
lady must follow.
And so the steps were like crowdpleasing, but he and Liz end up
losing to Ken and Pam becausethey're not regulation.
We also meet the president ofthe Federation, Barry Fife, who
has like basically a gopherstaple to his head.
(06:27):
It is the worst.
So just a really bad thing.
And everybody has bad teeth.
One other person we meet thereis a woman named Fran.
She is part of the interviewswho says, I'm I'm just a
(06:47):
beginner.
I've only been at the studio fortwo years, and I still don't
have a partner.
But I thought, I thought Scott'sdancing was really lovely and
they should have won.
And we see her saying to Liz,who's storming off the dance
floor, like, Liz, I thought youdid great.
You should have won.
And Liz like basically knocksher over.
So that you get a sense of whoLiz is.
We also meet Scott's friendWayne and Wayne's partner and
(07:10):
fiance Vanessa.
Shirley, Scott's mother, isdistraught.
And the next day, Scott isasking Liz, like, what did you
think of my steps?
And she's like, I don't careabout your steps.
You know, don't you want to winthe Pan Pacific Grand Prix?
And like they keep saying it,and there's an even longer
title.
It's like a seven-word title.
(07:31):
I don't remember what it was.
Kibbles keep saying, You need toapologize to Liz.
So he's like, dance apologizingto her, and then starts doing
his own steps again.
And she like scream cries, andhe's like, What is it that you
want?
And she says, I want KenRailings to come in here and
say, Pam Stone just broke bothher legs and I want to dance
(07:52):
with you.
And the camera like cuts away toa car crash with Pam Stone's car
crashing.
And then oh my god, comes in andsays, Pam Stone just broke both
her legs and I want to dancewith you, Liz.
And Scott's little sister, who'slike about 10, says, Well, that
(08:13):
was unexpected.
That is so okay, that's funny.
Like this this movie is it'sbonkers.
So Scott is now without apartner, and Shirley is really
distraught now.
So everyone goes home.
Scott is alone in the studio, orso he thinks.
And so he's practicing his owndancing.
(08:34):
And Fran comes up to him andsays, basically, like, I want to
dance with you.
Your steps.
I think they're they're lovely.
He's like, You think my stepsare good?
And she says, Yes, but they'retoo much.
You need to reel it in a littlebit, but you need to dance from
the heart.
And he's like, You're abeginner, you have no idea what
you're talking about.
I've been dancing since I wassix.
(08:55):
He's like, You've never evendanced with, you know, you dance
with a girl because they don'thave enough male dancers to go
around.
So you've never danced with apartner.
And he pisses her off to thepoint where she says, Your
gutless wonder.
And then she says something, sheyells at him in Spanish and then
starts crying.
And because she's crying, he heand she's saying, like, just
(09:15):
give me an hour to show you whatI know how to do.
Because she starts crying, hefeels bad and and says, All
right, one hour.
And so they start practicing therumba.
And so even though during theday they're trying out other
dancers, they continue topractice.
Fran and Scott continue topractice the rumba at night.
And she actually teaches themsome things that he doesn't
(09:37):
know.
She's like, And so now Fran,when you first meet her, has
like her skin's not great, herhair's very frizzy, she's
wearing these glasses that areway too big for her face, and so
we end up having like a littlebit of a glow-up.
Not just a little bit, like anamazing transformational
(09:57):
makeover.
So all of this is going on.
Meanwhile, we see that Shirleyis always very mean to Doug.
We see that Doug has this lockedcabinet in which he has like
reels of old videos of things,and he'll watch like Scott's
dancing from when he was dancinghis own steps.
(10:20):
Sometimes he'll put on music anddance himself, even though
everyone says Doug doesn'tdance.
We see just like how importantit is to everyone in Scott's
world that Scott win thePan-Pacific Grand Prix because
he's been training for it fromage six, and he will not win
with his own steps.
Fran clearly has a crush onScott.
One of the things he says iswhen he's teach when they're
(10:42):
doing the rumba, he's like,dance is a story.
The story of the rumba is thatis that you're in love.
You need to sell it, you know,look at me like you're in love
with me.
And there's a point where hewalks her home, she like looks
at him in, you know, like withhard eyes, and he says, I said
about the dance that it's, youknow, that it's a story of love,
(11:03):
but it's just pretend.
And she's like, oh yeah, ofcourse, and like trips over
herself leaving.
So there's some backing andforthing.
We see that Ken, who came andwanted Liz as his partner, we
see that he is actually analcoholic and is actually
horrible to dance with.
And there is a, it's not acompetition, but a show that
(11:27):
Scott is going to dance withFran at this show.
The night before, or no, it'sthe night of that show.
Fran's father says, You have tobe at home for this.
Fran's father, Rico, you have tobe home for this.
He doesn't like that she's outall the time and she's like
lying about where she is becausehe's kind of overprotective.
(11:48):
And so she says, I'm going tohelp my friend Natalie, and uh
lies where she's gonna be.
And she's got a grandmother aswell.
And so she goes to the show.
There is a Pan Pacific GrandPrix champion named Tina
Sparkle, whose partner isretiring, and Barney Fife, the
excuse me, Barry Fife, the uh Iwas gonna say, wait, that's a
(12:13):
character name I know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
It's Barry Fife.
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
It's very close.
It's it's the the guy with therodent on his head.
Oh, the really badly bad guy,the president of the federation.
He has basically decided thatTina Sparkle will be Scott's new
partner.
And so he has drinks with Les,the owner of the studio that
Scott trains at, to announce,like, hey, the on the down low
(12:39):
that Tina's partner is retiringafter the showcase and that Tina
will dance with Scott thatnight.
So Fran shows up just as Lesgets there to where Shirley is.
Scott is not there yet.
So there's a misunderstanding,classic sitcom misunderstanding
about like, oh, Scott has a newpartner.
(13:01):
I don't know who it is, andlike, oh, you minx, you figured
it out, and you know, one ofthose things.
And so Franz thinks they'retalking about her and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then it all comes out andFran is devastated.
And so when she finds it's likeScott runs, ends up saying,
like, no, I don't want to dancewith you, Tina, and runs after
(13:24):
Fran all the way back to herhouse, where the father is like,
Who are you?
And like, and he's like, No, wejust danced together.
He's like, Why are you dancingso late at night?
What kind of dancing are youdoing?
He's like, pasa doble, knowingthat this is a dance that since
Fran is Latina, her father,who's like, I think carrying a
(13:44):
guitar, will know.
And he's like, Oh, all right,show me your pasta doble.
And so Scott's like, Oh, okay,yeah, I'll do that.
And so they're having a party,which is why he wanted Fran
there.
And so they bring everybody in,they start playing music, and so
they start doing the strictlyballroom version.
So they're doing a strictlyballroom version of the pasta
(14:05):
doble, and so everyone therelike busts a gut laughing
because it's not a pasta doble.
And so Scott's like, what areyou laughing at?
And Rico, Fran's father, islike, that's not pasta doble.
I'll show you a pasta doble.
And so he he does like thetraditional version of the
dance.
(14:25):
Super sexy, that's myrecollection.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
And it's like slow and sensual.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Uh it's not foot dragging.
Yeah, yeah.
With the grandmother.
And so the grandmother says inSpanish, like, hot stuff here
may be able to shake his tailfeather, but he doesn't have any
rhythm.
And so Fran translates that asgrandma wants to teach you.
That's cute.
(14:50):
And so, and she asks Scott,like, where do you feel the
rhythm?
And so he starts moving hisfeet.
And she says, No, no, no, no,no.
You feel it in your heart.
And so they start teaching them.
Now, earlier to this, when hehad been walking her home, she
had taught him a phrase inSpanish that her her grandmother
had taught her, which is, and Idon't remember the Spanish
phrase, but it's a life lived infear is a life half-lived.
(15:14):
And so they are learning thepasa doble and like
incorporating it with the rumba.
And Rico is now teaching themalong with the grandmother, and
she's sewing the costume forFran, as well as like adapting a
costume that Rico had had forScott.
And Fran has said to Scott,you're not gonna win.
(15:35):
And he says, I don't care.
I don't care about the PanPacific Grand Prix.
And he says the same to hismother, like, I don't care.
And so at some point, Shirley,his mother, Doug Les, the owner
of the studio, and then BarryFife, the guy with the rodent on
his head, who's the president ofthe federation, gets together
(15:56):
and says, We've tried everythingwe can to convince him.
And he says, Yes, except fortelling the truth.
So it's the next day, which isthe day before the Pan Pacific
Grand Prix.
Scott is at Fran's house,they've practiced, and then
they're they're walking for alittle bit, and he says, You
remember what I said about therumba about how it's just to
pretend to be in love?
(16:17):
And she said, Yes, and he said,I think I made a mistake, and he
kisses her, which is adorable.
And then he goes, Oh no, I Ipromised Wayne I'd help him with
something.
And it's a running joke thatWayne needs help with the the
bago pago or some sort of step.
And she's like, Well, you betternot keep him waiting.
And so he he rushes back to thestudio and Barry Fife is there
(16:39):
and tells him the the real storyof what happened between his
parents and Les, which is thatDoug and Shirley Hastings were
on top of the world.
They could have been thechampions.
Everyone admired Doug.
He was the best dancer you'veever seen.
But then he became a selfishdancer and was doing his own
steps, and he did them duringthe Pan-Pacific Grand Prix.
And he lost and ruined hismother's career, ruined
(17:02):
Shirley's career.
He became a broken man, and onlythe birth of Scott gave him
something to live for.
And so don't take this away fromhim.
You know, don't be selfish.
Holy holy.
So, you know, super guilt trip.
So Scott then breaks into thelocked cabinet that his dad
keeps and finds a picture of hisparents.
(17:23):
So there's at in 1967.
So there's some proof that yes,his parents did dance.
So the next day he's dancingwith Liz because Ken has dropped
her and is now dancing with TinaSparkle.
Scott feels terrible abouthaving dropped Fran.
Fran is there with the beginnersagain, dancing with another
(17:44):
girl.
And Liz is saying somethingnasty about how, like, oh, she's
back with the beginners whereshe belongs.
And Scott is like running afterher, trying to like see her to
tell her, I'm so sorry.
Like, this is this isn't what Iwanted.
Please understand why I'm doingthis.
It's for my dad.
And meanwhile, his dad keepsrunning after him, going, like,
Scott, can I bend your ear for atick?
(18:06):
So finally she tells him off.
She's like, What about a lifelived in fears, a life
half-lived?
This is all like in the lastminutes before the Pan Pacific
Grand Prix Latin dance is aboutto happen.
Scott's dad tells him actuallywhat happened was he didn't ever
(18:26):
dance the Grand Prix, Les dancedwith Shirley because they didn't
want him to dance his own steps.
So Doug never actually dancedhis own steps in the Grand Prix
less, and Shirley made sure thathe couldn't.
Meanwhile, Wayne, because he'sworried about his bago pago
steps, Fife has told him, like,oh yeah, here's what you need to
(18:48):
do.
So he's following Fife to belike, Hey, can you make sure I
know what I'm doing for this?
He's following Fife and findshim in the basement, telling
Ken, who is drunk off his ass,and Tina Sparkle, hey, as long
as you go through the motions,you'll get the trophy.
So he's rigged it.
So they go tell Les what theyfound.
(19:09):
Les confronts Fife.
Fife says, like, oh, you know,so you're you're betraying,
betraying that family again, orsomething like that.
He's like, I didn't betray Doug.
You told me Doug wanted me todance with Shirley.
So all of this was So it was allengineered by Fife.
So while Doug is telling Scottall of this, one of the things
(19:31):
he says is, We lived our life infear, which of course triggers
Scott to be like half.
So he he uh leaves the ballroom,runs after Fran, gets her, and
they dance.
And so Fife ends up like turningoff the music to stop them from
dancing.
And so Doug starts clapping sothat they have the rhythm so
(19:54):
they can still dance, and thenthe entire audience starts
clapping.
And so people are able to turnthe music back on, and then the
entire room comes in and startsdancing.
Like all the other competitors.
No, the audience, too.
Everyone, everyone startsdancing.
So who wins?
We don't know.
We all do.
The audience wins.
(20:15):
We all do.
Okay, cool.
The winning is the friends wemade along the way.
unknown (20:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:24):
All right.
Well, that was fun.
So where do you want to startwith this?
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
Well, let's start with gatekeeping.
Because that's what this is allabout.
From 1967, when the originalbetrayal occurred with Doug
Hastings, to 1992 with, youknow, young Scott Hastings.
It was all about Barney Fife,no, very fife, very fife
(20:50):
gatekeeping, saying, like, thisis strictly ballroom.
We cannot this is the way Ithink.
This is the way I think dancingis supposed to be.
And I would rather have someonewho is so drunk he can barely
see straight be the Pan PacificGrand Prix champion than have
different types of steps, whichdoesn't really make sense.
(21:11):
Like, why are we doing thisthen?
Like, this is supposed to beabout creative expression.
Excellence and dance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's supposed to be aboutexcellence and dance and
creative expression and likeit's all made up anyway.
Are these guys amateur?
Well, that's the other thing.
It's like it's amateur, butlike, what does amateur like I
(21:32):
don't that's part of it too?
I do not know, I know Jack shitabout ballroom dancing.
This the entire sum of myknowledge of ballroom dancing
comes from this this movie.
Right, right.
I've caught one or two episodesof dancing.
So yeah, I don't really okay.
(21:55):
And that's like one of thethings that Shirley says when
she's fighting with Doug islike, you know, if we'd let you
dance your steps, we wouldn'thave been able to teach even.
And I don't know, maybe that'strue.
I mean, there are scandalswithin creative endeavors that
would be enough to scare peopleaway.
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
Yeah, maybe.
But I think it's interestingwhen you set the topic here as
gatekeeping, because there's thegatekeeper in Barry, but then
there's also the sort offollowers who just accept the
gatekeeping and then enforce itthemselves, like surely.
And so I think there's somethingreally interesting to be
extrapolated about the way thegatekeeping works because I
(22:37):
think we tend to, I tend to kindof just focus on the one
gatekeeper and forget about allof their enforcers who don't
even necessarily they don't havethe same sort of motives.
They're just like rulefollowers.
Like we we tend to follow rules,we tend to follow people who we
see in positions of authority.
(22:57):
Like it's like that famousexperiment where everyday people
like tortured people to deathbecause somebody was wearing a
white coat.
Or they thought they did.
They thought they did, theydidn't actually, because
somebody was wearing a whitecoat told them to.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
There's that internalized sense of like this
is right and this is wrong.
And like what's interesting isbecause if you asked, I mean,
all of this is ridiculous,obviously.
But if you asked ShirleyHastings, like, what's the most
important thing in the world toyou?
(23:31):
My family.
But is she acting like that?
Because she's acting like what'sthe most important thing in the
world to her is a trophy thatis, you know, like really not
that expensive.
You know, it's like somethingyou get down at the trophy store
that's down in the strip mall,you know, that literally no one
else cares about.
(23:53):
And that that is true of somuch.
Like we so often internalizethese external rules because of
people in higher power aregatekeeping.
SPEAKER_02 (24:06):
It's interesting too, even just thinking about
the gatekeeping, like what's atstake.
Like when you say it that way,when you talk about sort of
internalized like good and bador whatever, like for whatever
reason, to Barry Fife and tomany gatekeepers like him, like
change feels like dangerous.
And so it's sort of interestingto think about like the
(24:30):
psychology of it that makespeople dig in so hard that
they're trying to protectsomething.
And I don't think it's just ego.
Like there is a there's a safetyand a danger component, which
is, as you point out, completelyridiculous.
I mean, that as this moviepoints out by making the the
central action be this dancecompetition, which there'll be
(24:53):
another one next year,presumably.
So, you know, that really kindof underscores the sense of
safety and danger, safety in theway it's always been done in
danger and change, is completelymisplaced.
But I think we see that in allkinds of places where it's
harder to see.
SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
Well, and that kind of gets into one of the things
that I find really fascinatingabout this is in the first 10
minutes you're watching this andlike kind of documentary style,
it's interviewing Shirley andDoug, and Shirley's saying,
like, Scott won most of the thetrophies in in this room.
I mean, that's what's so tragicabout it.
(25:32):
His, you know, it was his yearto go all the way.
And he was gonna win thePan-Pacific Grand Prix of South
Arab.
And like you're sitting theregoing, that doesn't matter to
anyone at all.
SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
Well, also like it'll happen again next year.
Like, it's not like aonce-a-decade competition.
SPEAKER_00 (25:58):
She says that and you laugh because it's literally
ridiculous.
But if you zoom out, anythingthat we put on, like we say,
like, oh, it is so importantthat I get this, that I get the
corner office, that I win thatdepartmental award, is equally
ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Well, because ultimately what that is is
outsourcing happiness, right?
I'll be happy when that trophysits on my shelf.
And then the problem is you getthe trophy and you're still
miserable.
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
And then what do you do?
I so this gets to, I was justreminded of this recently.
When I was in college, eachdepartment they had an honors
day.
And this, I don't know if thisis common in in in smaller
schools.
I don't know if they did this atOberlin, but each department
would give out honors to tovarious students.
Oh no, I didn't I don't think wedid that.
(26:51):
I received an honor from theFrench department because I
double-majored in English andFrench once when I was uh a
sophomore and once again when Iwas a senior.
And that was amazing.
It felt amazing.
I really wanted the Englishdepartment to recognize me.
Like I wanted that so bad.
I wanted that recognition.
So my roommate's boyfriend wasalso an English major, and he
(27:15):
was a moody, taciturn, kind of apain in the ass.
Like I did not talk.
Emo.
He was emo.
Before it was cool.
So there was a day where thethree of us were walking across
campus and we ran into anEnglish professor.
Now he and I were both Englishmajors.
I never took a class with him,just never happened to take a
class with him.
(27:35):
All of a sudden, we run intothis English professor, and he
was Mr.
Schmooz, the boyfriend.
He was all like the moodytaciturn does not talk, was
suddenly like Mr.
Charm.
And I was I was sitting therewith my mouth like on my like my
chin was on my chest.
Like, who are you?
And guess who's getting awardsand honors at Honors Day from
(27:59):
the English department?
And I realized Mr.
Moody slash Mr.
Schmooze, you know, is like Dr.
Jackal Muster Hyde, he knewexactly who the glad-handing
professors were and he he wentfor them.
Whereas like my favoriteprofessors had nothing to do
with that shit because theydidn't care.
And he specifically schmoozedwith them.
(28:23):
That to me is like what this,it's a microcosm of that.
And so, like, since then, andit's not to say like I still
being recognized still feelsreally good.
I received an award from there'ssomething called the Plutus
Foundation about excellence andfinancial media, and I received
a award for freelancer of theyear, and I'm a little twee
(28:45):
about it.
I also know for a fact that Igot it because Joe, who came on
a few few episodes ago, put in aword for me because it's holding
the story about this this guy.
I know that's exactly whathappened.
I know that is what happened.
Because I told him I was like,Yeah, I don't I don't put any
any any stock in this shitanymore because of this
(29:07):
experience.
Like, because I don't do thatshit.
And I know he was on the panelfor it was decide.
Again, he's like, Emily shouldget it this year.
Thank you, Joe.
And I also I'm a little tweeabout it because I was just
like, that's my Plutus award.
I keep pensing it.
So anyway, what I'm saying isanything we do, like the Oscars
(29:33):
are ridiculous.
The Olympics are ridiculous.
They are.
That's not to say that they'renot worthwhile.
Right.
But they are ridiculous.
Right.
I think that's an importantdistinction distinction.
SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
I mean, I've been thinking a lot lately about like
this is such a weird thing.
What a tangent.
Sorry, folks.
What is the evolutionary benefitof being able to appreciate
beauty?
Like, what did our the you know,his Like ancient humans, like
how did it make them survive andthrive better?
I don't know.
Like I can see where patternrecognition or even like having
(30:07):
like a dopamine hit or like likebeing like getting aesthetic
satisfaction from differentthings could like help you
survive, but like actuallyappreciating beauty.
I don't know.
I'm not sure how it helps thespecies survive.
It's still really worthwhile,right?
I guess that's where that's whyI'm going here.
It's like just because theOlympics are ridiculous and like
(30:28):
in many ways meaningless doesnot make mean that they have no
meaning.
I know I just contradictedmyself, but well, and that's but
I stand by it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
And that's I feel like ultimately that's what this
story is about.
Because the Pan Pacific GrandPrix Latin dance is meaningless.
It's ridiculous.
But the meaning is the dance.
Dance is not meaningless, andthat's what that's what the
whole area is.
And that's what like Doug issaying to Scott is like it's
(31:01):
about the dance and where whenyou're focusing on winning this
trophy, you've lost it all.
SPEAKER_02 (31:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
Does Doug say that?
You've lost it all?
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
Oh, okay.
That's me.
That's cool.
That's Emily.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
And that's what brings these two people
together, too, is that she seesthat he wants because he's Scott
says, I'm bored with strictlyballroom.
I'm bored with the normal steps.
And she sees that he is tryingfor something that he's not
getting from what he's known allalong.
(31:37):
And she sees him.
He does not see her initiallyuntil she like because there's a
point where they're doingsomething and he's trying to
figure it out.
And she's like, No, I've gotsomething.
I've this is what I've beenworking on at home.
And he's he's like, No, no, no,shh, and she finally just does
it.
And he's like, Whoa, what wasthat?
And that's when he first reallysees her.
And so that's also, I think,really lovely because where his
(32:00):
parents don't see each other isbecause his mother was so
focused on winning rather thanon dance.
And at the end, when everyonecomes onto the dance floor, the
first to join on the dance flooris Doug goes to Shirley and
says, Will you have this dancewith me?
And she says yes.
(32:21):
And there's there's this senseof like there is still something
there between them.
There is still dance betweenthem, even though they have not
danced together in 25 years.
And that's that's it's lovely.
It's it's just it feels good forthis ridiculous movie.
SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Well, I mean, it sounds to me like it's sort of a
meditation about the power ofjoy and creativity to bring us
together.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
And then like the the a life lived in fear is a
life half-lived.
I love that in terms of likelooking at it in terms of
creativity.
Because if you're looking at itin terms of like fear, when
you're talking about this likeGrand Prix, Pan Pacific Grand
Prix, oh my goodness, it's sosilly.
But if you're looking at it interms of like, because I do
(33:10):
carry such anxiety aboutcreativity, but say no, like the
wholehearted don't live in fearof your creativity, jump right
in.
That is amazing.
And like that, it's coming froma director, and Boz Lerman also
wrote this with the coco-author, and it started as a
(33:31):
stage play.
So it started as a stage play in1984 and went through a couple
iterations.
Lerman had the original idea andhad like some help with writers
and things like that.
And then also Mercurio and I'mnot gonna remember her name, but
all of these are dancers.
Like Mercurio was was theactresses are dancers.
(33:51):
Paul Mercurio was part of theAustralian ballet as of age 19.
Just really truly talentedpeople.
And so that's also one of thethings that's really remarkable
about this is that you've gotthis dichotomy between this like
tempest in a teapot and likeremarkable dancing.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So talk to me about white peoplewho ruin everything.
I think that like by having Franand her family actually speak
Spanish to one another, thathelps to underscore Scott's
whiteness, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
So, and this is this is one of those things where
like I saw it this time, Idefinitely didn't notice it when
I saw it as a teenager.
And then because it's set inAustralia, I feel a little less
qualified to discuss thisbecause I don't really have a
sense of where the history ofLatinx people in Australia.
(34:49):
But the white people ruineverything.
It's the paso doble.
SPEAKER_02 (34:53):
Right, which is not which when when he does it the
way you're supposed to do it onthe competition floor, the
actually the this Latin dance,these Latin people say that
ain't it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Yeah.
So, and it was like not evenlike cultural appropriation, it
was like just culturally wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
Um and that got me thinkingabout also the costumes that
everyone is wearing.
What Scott and Fran are wearingfor the Latin dance is very
(35:27):
traditional Latin costumes.
She's wearing one of thoseskirts that is like got a long,
it's longer in the back than inthe front.
So you can see her legs, andhe's got one of those short
jackets and then like very tall,like high pants.
It's the short jacket with allthe sequins, and it's very
traditional.
And when I say like it'sinteresting to say white people
(35:48):
because I think that's verySpanish, which Spain is white
people.
SPEAKER_02 (35:55):
I mean, that's the thing about whiteness, right?
Is that erases differencebecause it once upon a time
Spanish and Italian and Irishand Polish were all distinct,
but now they're all white.
So it just erases difference.
SPEAKER_00 (36:08):
It's also like I'm not sure how this plays out in
Australia, New Zealand, andAustralian culture.
But when that then when you lookat the like Latin costumes of
everyone else on the dancefloor, they're like caricatures.
They're like peacocks.
They're wearing like sequinedtuxedos and like I can't think
(36:33):
of what those they would becalled, but like puffing puffy
sleeves and and then likebasically bikinis with like not
quite like feathers attached asskirts.
And on the one hand, it's like,okay, you don't want to do
cultural appropriation whereyou're wearing a costume that's
not yours, but on the otherhand, like that ain't it.
(36:57):
So, but that is traditional forballroom dancing and stuff, like
it's complicated.
It's complicated, but it it hadme feeling like white people
ruin everything.
And like for people who arereally into ballroom, like I I
forgive me, I don't knowballroom.
I don't know the evolution ofhow those costumes came to be.
(37:20):
There might be an amazinghistory that I know nothing
about.
And so I'm coming in, but Ithink there is something really
interesting here in the the factthat there's this like strictly
ballroom rule that is has takensomething.
It's like this is Latin dance,and we got all of these people
who are all like all of them areblonde and like bleached blonde.
(37:44):
So like Ken is like bleachedblonde and Liz bleached blonde.
Wayne and his partner bothredhead, Shirley is bleached
blonde, but like all of thedancers are like performing
whiteness.
And even like Barry Fife, histoupee is blonde, and his
girlfriend wife, whatever sheis, she she is bleached blonde.
(38:07):
So they they are all very muchperforming whiteness, as is Les.
He's bleach blonde, but this isthe Latin dance, and so it's
weird.
It's this very weird thing, it'scomplicated.
Does it pass Bechtel?
It does, actually.
It does very well.
We have many female characterswith names and they talk to each
(38:28):
other, they talk to each otherin mean girl ways.
Oh, okay.
So Shirley tells Bechtel is avery low bar.
Shirley tells Fran like sheshould go home because
everything would be better ifshe weren't there.
Fran's grandmother also tellsFran that her her mother would
be proud of her if she werehere.
So that's that's lovely too.
(38:49):
Does the does grandma have aname?
She does, but I don't rememberwhat it is.
But yes, there's a name.
And then Scott has a littlesister who has a name that I
don't remember, but she talks toLiz, she talks to Shirley, she
talks to Fran.
There's there's there's lots ofconversation.
Oh, and she talks to Barry'sgirlfriend slash wife, whatever
her name.
Barry's girlfriend slash wife isnamed Charm Leachman.
(39:12):
She tells her, You should beashamed of yourself, Miss
Leechman.
So yeah.
But this the gender stuff, it islike, as Liz says, where the man
goes, the lady must follow.
Because it is very much Scott'sdecision on everything.
Some of that has to do with thefact that he's the competitor
(39:35):
whose name is like she does nothave whatever the background is
necessary to put in as acompetitor, and she doesn't have
Oh, she's just heart partner forthe tournament.
But there's also and like shedefinitely has agency.
Like she she she's the one wholike comes to him and says,
(39:56):
like, I think you could do thisand I want to do this with you.
She calls him a gutless wondermultiple times.
Fran does.
Sorry, I thought we were talkingabout it.
Oh no, no, no, no.
No, right, yeah, right.
I see.
So I I think you know, for 1992,I think it's pretty good.
SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
Yeah, it sounds like it.
And and even like the genderstuff, thinking about like the
the male, the man leads andwhatever, the dynamic between
Shirley and Doug, that wasn'tthe case.
I mean, there was another maninterfering, but it's at least,
you know, before the sort ofreconciliation because of the
joy of dance at the end, itsounds like Shirley very much
was the wore the pants in thefamily to use a outdated
(40:37):
expression.
SPEAKER_00 (40:38):
And even with the Fran's father being like
overprotective, it seemed to bemore that he didn't know where
she was and he wanted to know.
Not so much that like as soon ashe was like, Okay, who is this
kid?
What have you been doing?
SPEAKER_02 (40:53):
Yeah, he wasn't policing, he wasn't policing her
sexuality.
It didn't sound like that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
And as soon as like they found out, like, oh, you
you're dancing, show me.
All right, we're gonna teach youhow to dance.
And they're like, they'rethey're sewing costumes for him,
and like they we show, we we seethere's some really hot scenes
because Fran's father is verygood looking.
There's some really, really goodscenes of Rico and Scott dancing
(41:17):
together where he's teachinghim.
SPEAKER_02 (41:19):
You know, I was gonna say, I wonder what this
movie would be like if we remadeit today.
When the I know the rules ofballroom dancing have changed,
and now you can have same-sexcouples on the dance floor,
which I only know because of my,you know, Instagram reels with
these super hot dances with twomen that I enjoy.
But I wonder like if we were tolike write a you know, a sequel
(41:40):
that's set today where itdoesn't have to be a hetero like
couple, like what changes withthat unique?
Um it doesn't really matter.
It just is like my that's wheremy brain went when we were
talking about this.
Yeah.
So all right.
Well, any final thoughts fromyou before I try and reflect
back to you what I heard aboutStrictly Ballroom?
SPEAKER_00 (42:01):
Honestly, this is this is a delightful film with
one exception.
It it holds up.
And the one exception is Fifecalls less the homophobic F
word, but he's a horrible humanbeing.
And that is like the only thingthat doesn't hold up.
And even then, that's like he'sa horrible human being.
(42:22):
And so I was really pleasantlysurprised how well this movie
holds up, how delightful it isfrom beginning to end.
It's got a great soundtrack, itis full of eye candy.
And it's it's genuinely funnyand like and it's feel good.
(42:42):
Like you you really feel good,even as you're like, come on,
people.
But at the same time, you'rejust like, no, this is this is
really important.
Like the Pan Pacific Grand PrixLatin finals trophy matters not
at all.
But what Scott and Fran aredoing is really important, you
(43:05):
know?
SPEAKER_02 (43:06):
Yeah.
So I'm thinking aboutChristopher Guest movies.
When you say that, the thinglike the not important, like it
makes me think of Best and Show.
Maybe we'll put that on thelist.
Anyway, let me see if I canreflect back to you what you
brought about this delightfulmovie from 1992, directed by Baz
Lerman and apparently written byhim as well, with some help.
I think we spent a lot of timeactually thinking about
gatekeeping and not just sort ofthe like that it happens and
(43:28):
what the effects are ofgatekeeping, but also the ways
in which sort of gatekeepershave enforcers who have
internalized the idea, the ideasof right and wrong or good and
bad or whatever safety anddanger that the gatekeepers have
sold them.
So that was sort of aninteresting meditation that kind
of goes through the moviebecause of this character whose
(43:50):
name is not Barney Fife, it's infact Barry Fife.
And he has a very bad toupee,and he's a horrible human being,
and he uses the F-word, the Fhomophobic F-word, not fuck.
Okay.
We also talked a lot aboutconnected to gatekeeping is the
very low stakes of likeeverything, right?
(44:11):
Like specifically, we're talkingabout the pan-Pacific Grand Prix
Latin dance championship in thisfilm.
But I think you extrapolated,you use the phrase zoom out and
sort of talk about like almosteverything that we do is just
sort of ridiculous like this.
Like the stakes are not what wemake them.
(44:32):
Like we make the stakes highwhen in fact they don't matter
much of the time.
Yeah, I think like oncologistsmight disagree with us, but
well, I mean, that's heartsurgeons.
SPEAKER_00 (44:43):
I mean, that's that's why like competitions
don't matter.
SPEAKER_02 (44:48):
Right.
Competitions, competitions,yeah.
Specifically, yeah.
I think that's right.
So I think that was a that was akey learning for you.
There was something reallyinteresting in a life lived in
fear is a life half-lived.
And I think that's sort of likejust general advice for humans,
(45:08):
but you actually like did alittle like even further
interpretation of that becauseof the way it shows up in this
movie, to talk specificallyabout creative pursuits and the
idea that sort of shrinkingone's creative outlets or
creative endeavors for fear ofbeing judged, failing, whatever
(45:29):
it is that we fear when we don'tput our work out into the world,
that's actually sort of animportant lesson about like
living our full creative selves,not just about taking risks and
like asking someone out on adate or like applying for the
job that you're not qualifiedfor, but actually like living as
creative beings.
And I think that's important,that distinction.
(45:52):
I appreciated your bringingthat, and that it came from this
movie, especially since sort ofthe climax, the reconciliation
between the estranged parents,or they weren't quite estranged,
but they also weren't quitetogether either.
And sort of realizing that thegatekeeper is a gatekeeper and a
horrible human being, what thatunlocked was joy in creativity,
(46:14):
joy in dance in this case, thatis actually what brings all of
these people together.
That's why they do thiscompetition because they all
love dance.
And so by uncovering, unmaskingthe gatekeeper in this case, we
actually were able to see thewhole universe of the movie
return to the joy of dance.
(46:35):
And that's really beautiful.
And then lastly, I heard somegender stuff that was kind of
minor.
It passes Bechtel, and there issome stuff about like who leads
because of the dance and likeFrance sort of following, which
is also partially about thestory, but partially about
gender.
So there's there's a little bitof messiness there.
Oh, and white people ruineverything, which is true, but
(46:56):
also like complicated in thismovie because we don't fully
understand the milieu ofAustralian culture and also like
Latin, it's Latin dance, butit's also ballroom culture, and
like it's complicated, but thereis there does seem to be
something in there, especiallyin the fact that Fran and her
family speak Spanish to oneanother.
So they're not like the moviemakers made sure we understood
(47:19):
that they were different fromthe English-only speaking
Australians.
And lastly, my sister is aPlutus award-winning finance
writer, you people.
SPEAKER_01 (47:30):
Like, I want you to like note that.
So did I forget anything else?
SPEAKER_02 (47:41):
Well, next time I'm excited to bring you my deep
thoughts about the cartoon movieLand Before Time by Don Bluth
with the dinosaurs.
SPEAKER_00 (47:49):
That's awesome.
See you then.
SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make
it free to produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon.
There's a link in the shownotes.
Or leave a positive review soothers can find us.
And of course, share the showwith your people.
(48:18):
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
Incompitech.com.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
I feel like ultimately that's what this
(00:01):
story is about.
The Pan Pacific Grand Prix Latindance is meaningless.
It's ridiculous.
But dance is not meaningless.
It's about the dance.
And when you're focusing onwinning this trophy, you've lost
it all.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just about culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
I'm Emily Guy Birkin, and you're listening to
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit.
Because pop culture is stillculture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1992 Boz Lerman filmStrictly Ballroom with my
sister, Tracy Guy Decker.
And with you.
Let's dive in.
(01:01):
So, Tracy, I know you've seenthis because we saw it in the
theater together and absolutelyloved it.
But tell me what you rememberabout Strictly Ballroom.
SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
That's about all I remember, is that I loved it.
Like I feel like you rememberlike whole plot lines of these
movies we saw when we were kids,and I remember how they made me
feel.
So I remember loving it.
I remember that it's aboutballroom dancing in competition
in Australia, I think.
That's it.
That's all I got.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
So tell me why are we talking about strictly
ballroom dancing?
I cannot remember how I wasreminded of it, but somehow I
was reminded of it.
I was like, ooh, I liked thatone.
So I like Boz Lerman as adirector.
He directed the Romeo and Julietthat had Leonardo DiCaprio and
Claire Danes.
Claire Danes.
He also directed Moulin Rouge.
(01:51):
And with Strictly Ballroom,those are considered kind of a
trilogy.
Which is weird as F.
Because very totally different.
Um in some ways.
In some ways, no, they kind ofhang together.
So I just kind of like this waswas gonna be a very light
(02:15):
retread for me.
You know, you talk aboutsometimes you just wanna you
wanna watch a comedy and andfeel good.
And this was I kind of wanted towatch a comedy and feel good.
Also, Paul Mercurio, who playsthe main character, Scott
Hastings.
I did not spend, I did not mindspending an hour and a half
(02:36):
looking at him.
Did not mind that at all.
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
Emily is consistent.
Nothing if not consistent.
SPEAKER_02 (02:46):
Okay.
All right.
Well, so tell me, besides theeye candy, like give me some
like postcards from where we'regoing.
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
The thing that I remember that stuck with me
other than the romantic plot,the thing that stuck with me
about this was the absolutelow-stakes nature of the story
because it is about thepan-Pacific Grand Prix Latin
dance for amateurs.
(03:15):
And it is such a big deal to allof these people.
Like they, it is like they takeit so seriously.
And so we in the audience are inon the joke that this is
ridiculous.
And so that is something that Ireally kind of love about this
movie.
(03:36):
That like we end up like fromthe very beginning, we're like,
oh, this is these people areridiculous.
And then we get into it.
We're like, oh no, it is veryimportant.
And then there's also the senseof like, well, what is
important?
So there's there's that aspectof it, the sense of gatekeeping
that I think is is kind ofreally interesting.
(03:58):
The idea of like, what iscreativity, what is art is
really interesting.
I think there's some reallyinteresting questions about
gender when it comes to creationand art and romance.
And then I didn't don't remembernoticing this at the time, but I
I felt it this time.
There's a sense of white peopleruin everything.
(04:19):
And you know, I feel that way,and I am a white people.
So those are some of the thingsthat we're we're gonna talk
about.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
Okay.
Well, catch me up on the plotsince all I remember is that I
liked it and there's dancing andit's Australian.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
So we are introduced to the world of ballroom
dancing, where Scott Hastingsplayed by Paul Mercurio.
He is the son of a family ofballroom dancers, his mother,
Shirley Hastings, and hisfather, Doug Hastings.
Shirley is a dancer.
His father, Doug, is a veryquiet and meek man, and he seems
to just do like he fixes thingsaround the studio.
(04:57):
The studio belongs to theirfriend Les, I can't remember his
last name, Kendall or somethinglike that.
And so none of the three adults,because Scott is somewhere under
the age of 25, none of the threeadults talk about the past much.
All Scott knows is that Les andShirley danced together and
(05:19):
there was some kind of blow-upamong them before he was born.
So at some sort of opener forthe dance season, Scott and his
partner Liz got boxed in by KenRowlings and his partner Pam
Stone.
And so to get out of that, andboxed in means like they were
(05:42):
stuck in a certain spot on thedance floor.
On the dance floor.
Okay.
Yeah.
So to get out, Scott starteddoing his own dance steps that
were not quote unquote strictlyballroom.
And when it starts, it's alittle bit like a documentary.
So there's a point where likethey're interviewing Scott's
parents and they're interviewingLiz.
And Liz says, like, I had nochoice where the man goes, the
(06:06):
lady must follow.
And so the steps were like crowdpleasing, but he and Liz end up
losing to Ken and Pam becausethey're not regulation.
We also meet the president ofthe Federation, Barry Fife, who
has like basically a gopherstaple to his head.
(06:27):
It is the worst.
So just a really bad thing.
And everybody has bad teeth.
One other person we meet thereis a woman named Fran.
She is part of the interviewswho says, I'm I'm just a
(06:47):
beginner.
I've only been at the studio fortwo years, and I still don't
have a partner.
But I thought, I thought Scott'sdancing was really lovely and
they should have won.
And we see her saying to Liz,who's storming off the dance
floor, like, Liz, I thought youdid great.
You should have won.
And Liz like basically knocksher over.
So that you get a sense of whoLiz is.
We also meet Scott's friendWayne and Wayne's partner and
(07:10):
fiance Vanessa.
Shirley, Scott's mother, isdistraught.
And the next day, Scott isasking Liz, like, what did you
think of my steps?
And she's like, I don't careabout your steps.
You know, don't you want to winthe Pan Pacific Grand Prix?
And like they keep saying it,and there's an even longer
title.
It's like a seven-word title.
(07:31):
I don't remember what it was.
Kibbles keep saying, You need toapologize to Liz.
So he's like, dance apologizingto her, and then starts doing
his own steps again.
And she like scream cries, andhe's like, What is it that you
want?
And she says, I want KenRailings to come in here and
say, Pam Stone just broke bothher legs and I want to dance
(07:52):
with you.
And the camera like cuts away toa car crash with Pam Stone's car
crashing.
And then oh my god, comes in andsays, Pam Stone just broke both
her legs and I want to dancewith you, Liz.
And Scott's little sister, who'slike about 10, says, Well, that
(08:13):
was unexpected.
That is so okay, that's funny.
Like this this movie is it'sbonkers.
So Scott is now without apartner, and Shirley is really
distraught now.
So everyone goes home.
Scott is alone in the studio, orso he thinks.
And so he's practicing his owndancing.
(08:34):
And Fran comes up to him andsays, basically, like, I want to
dance with you.
Your steps.
I think they're they're lovely.
He's like, You think my stepsare good?
And she says, Yes, but they'retoo much.
You need to reel it in a littlebit, but you need to dance from
the heart.
And he's like, You're abeginner, you have no idea what
you're talking about.
I've been dancing since I wassix.
(08:55):
He's like, You've never evendanced with, you know, you dance
with a girl because they don'thave enough male dancers to go
around.
So you've never danced with apartner.
And he pisses her off to thepoint where she says, Your
gutless wonder.
And then she says something, sheyells at him in Spanish and then
starts crying.
And because she's crying, he heand she's saying, like, just
(09:15):
give me an hour to show you whatI know how to do.
Because she starts crying, hefeels bad and and says, All
right, one hour.
And so they start practicing therumba.
And so even though during theday they're trying out other
dancers, they continue topractice.
Fran and Scott continue topractice the rumba at night.
And she actually teaches themsome things that he doesn't
(09:37):
know.
She's like, And so now Fran,when you first meet her, has
like her skin's not great, herhair's very frizzy, she's
wearing these glasses that areway too big for her face, and so
we end up having like a littlebit of a glow-up.
Not just a little bit, like anamazing transformational
(09:57):
makeover.
So all of this is going on.
Meanwhile, we see that Shirleyis always very mean to Doug.
We see that Doug has this lockedcabinet in which he has like
reels of old videos of things,and he'll watch like Scott's
dancing from when he was dancinghis own steps.
(10:20):
Sometimes he'll put on music anddance himself, even though
everyone says Doug doesn'tdance.
We see just like how importantit is to everyone in Scott's
world that Scott win thePan-Pacific Grand Prix because
he's been training for it fromage six, and he will not win
with his own steps.
Fran clearly has a crush onScott.
One of the things he says iswhen he's teach when they're
(10:42):
doing the rumba, he's like,dance is a story.
The story of the rumba is thatis that you're in love.
You need to sell it, you know,look at me like you're in love
with me.
And there's a point where hewalks her home, she like looks
at him in, you know, like withhard eyes, and he says, I said
about the dance that it's, youknow, that it's a story of love,
(11:03):
but it's just pretend.
And she's like, oh yeah, ofcourse, and like trips over
herself leaving.
So there's some backing andforthing.
We see that Ken, who came andwanted Liz as his partner, we
see that he is actually analcoholic and is actually
horrible to dance with.
And there is a, it's not acompetition, but a show that
(11:27):
Scott is going to dance withFran at this show.
The night before, or no, it'sthe night of that show.
Fran's father says, You have tobe at home for this.
Fran's father, Rico, you have tobe home for this.
He doesn't like that she's outall the time and she's like
lying about where she is becausehe's kind of overprotective.
(11:48):
And so she says, I'm going tohelp my friend Natalie, and uh
lies where she's gonna be.
And she's got a grandmother aswell.
And so she goes to the show.
There is a Pan Pacific GrandPrix champion named Tina
Sparkle, whose partner isretiring, and Barney Fife, the
excuse me, Barry Fife, the uh Iwas gonna say, wait, that's a
(12:13):
character name I know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
It's Barry Fife.
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
It's very close.
It's it's the the guy with therodent on his head.
Oh, the really badly bad guy,the president of the federation.
He has basically decided thatTina Sparkle will be Scott's new
partner.
And so he has drinks with Les,the owner of the studio that
Scott trains at, to announce,like, hey, the on the down low
(12:39):
that Tina's partner is retiringafter the showcase and that Tina
will dance with Scott thatnight.
So Fran shows up just as Lesgets there to where Shirley is.
Scott is not there yet.
So there's a misunderstanding,classic sitcom misunderstanding
about like, oh, Scott has a newpartner.
(13:01):
I don't know who it is, andlike, oh, you minx, you figured
it out, and you know, one ofthose things.
And so Franz thinks they'retalking about her and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then it all comes out andFran is devastated.
And so when she finds it's likeScott runs, ends up saying,
like, no, I don't want to dancewith you, Tina, and runs after
(13:24):
Fran all the way back to herhouse, where the father is like,
Who are you?
And like, and he's like, No, wejust danced together.
He's like, Why are you dancingso late at night?
What kind of dancing are youdoing?
He's like, pasa doble, knowingthat this is a dance that since
Fran is Latina, her father,who's like, I think carrying a
(13:44):
guitar, will know.
And he's like, Oh, all right,show me your pasta doble.
And so Scott's like, Oh, okay,yeah, I'll do that.
And so they're having a party,which is why he wanted Fran
there.
And so they bring everybody in,they start playing music, and so
they start doing the strictlyballroom version.
So they're doing a strictlyballroom version of the pasta
(14:05):
doble, and so everyone therelike busts a gut laughing
because it's not a pasta doble.
And so Scott's like, what areyou laughing at?
And Rico, Fran's father, islike, that's not pasta doble.
I'll show you a pasta doble.
And so he he does like thetraditional version of the
dance.
(14:25):
Super sexy, that's myrecollection.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
And it's like slow and sensual.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Uh it's not foot dragging.
Yeah, yeah.
With the grandmother.
And so the grandmother says inSpanish, like, hot stuff here
may be able to shake his tailfeather, but he doesn't have any
rhythm.
And so Fran translates that asgrandma wants to teach you.
That's cute.
(14:50):
And so, and she asks Scott,like, where do you feel the
rhythm?
And so he starts moving hisfeet.
And she says, No, no, no, no,no.
You feel it in your heart.
And so they start teaching them.
Now, earlier to this, when hehad been walking her home, she
had taught him a phrase inSpanish that her her grandmother
had taught her, which is, and Idon't remember the Spanish
phrase, but it's a life lived infear is a life half-lived.
(15:14):
And so they are learning thepasa doble and like
incorporating it with the rumba.
And Rico is now teaching themalong with the grandmother, and
she's sewing the costume forFran, as well as like adapting a
costume that Rico had had forScott.
And Fran has said to Scott,you're not gonna win.
(15:35):
And he says, I don't care.
I don't care about the PanPacific Grand Prix.
And he says the same to hismother, like, I don't care.
And so at some point, Shirley,his mother, Doug Les, the owner
of the studio, and then BarryFife, the guy with the rodent on
his head, who's the president ofthe federation, gets together
(15:56):
and says, We've tried everythingwe can to convince him.
And he says, Yes, except fortelling the truth.
So it's the next day, which isthe day before the Pan Pacific
Grand Prix.
Scott is at Fran's house,they've practiced, and then
they're they're walking for alittle bit, and he says, You
remember what I said about therumba about how it's just to
pretend to be in love?
(16:17):
And she said, Yes, and he said,I think I made a mistake, and he
kisses her, which is adorable.
And then he goes, Oh no, I Ipromised Wayne I'd help him with
something.
And it's a running joke thatWayne needs help with the the
bago pago or some sort of step.
And she's like, Well, you betternot keep him waiting.
And so he he rushes back to thestudio and Barry Fife is there
(16:39):
and tells him the the real storyof what happened between his
parents and Les, which is thatDoug and Shirley Hastings were
on top of the world.
They could have been thechampions.
Everyone admired Doug.
He was the best dancer you'veever seen.
But then he became a selfishdancer and was doing his own
steps, and he did them duringthe Pan-Pacific Grand Prix.
And he lost and ruined hismother's career, ruined
(17:02):
Shirley's career.
He became a broken man, and onlythe birth of Scott gave him
something to live for.
And so don't take this away fromhim.
You know, don't be selfish.
Holy holy.
So, you know, super guilt trip.
So Scott then breaks into thelocked cabinet that his dad
keeps and finds a picture of hisparents.
(17:23):
So there's at in 1967.
So there's some proof that yes,his parents did dance.
So the next day he's dancingwith Liz because Ken has dropped
her and is now dancing with TinaSparkle.
Scott feels terrible abouthaving dropped Fran.
Fran is there with the beginnersagain, dancing with another
(17:44):
girl.
And Liz is saying somethingnasty about how, like, oh, she's
back with the beginners whereshe belongs.
And Scott is like running afterher, trying to like see her to
tell her, I'm so sorry.
Like, this is this isn't what Iwanted.
Please understand why I'm doingthis.
It's for my dad.
And meanwhile, his dad keepsrunning after him, going, like,
Scott, can I bend your ear for atick?
(18:06):
So finally she tells him off.
She's like, What about a lifelived in fears, a life
half-lived?
This is all like in the lastminutes before the Pan Pacific
Grand Prix Latin dance is aboutto happen.
Scott's dad tells him actuallywhat happened was he didn't ever
(18:26):
dance the Grand Prix, Les dancedwith Shirley because they didn't
want him to dance his own steps.
So Doug never actually dancedhis own steps in the Grand Prix
less, and Shirley made sure thathe couldn't.
Meanwhile, Wayne, because he'sworried about his bago pago
steps, Fife has told him, like,oh yeah, here's what you need to
(18:48):
do.
So he's following Fife to belike, Hey, can you make sure I
know what I'm doing for this?
He's following Fife and findshim in the basement, telling
Ken, who is drunk off his ass,and Tina Sparkle, hey, as long
as you go through the motions,you'll get the trophy.
So he's rigged it.
So they go tell Les what theyfound.
(19:09):
Les confronts Fife.
Fife says, like, oh, you know,so you're you're betraying,
betraying that family again, orsomething like that.
He's like, I didn't betray Doug.
You told me Doug wanted me todance with Shirley.
So all of this was So it was allengineered by Fife.
So while Doug is telling Scottall of this, one of the things
(19:31):
he says is, We lived our life infear, which of course triggers
Scott to be like half.
So he he uh leaves the ballroom,runs after Fran, gets her, and
they dance.
And so Fife ends up like turningoff the music to stop them from
dancing.
And so Doug starts clapping sothat they have the rhythm so
(19:54):
they can still dance, and thenthe entire audience starts
clapping.
And so people are able to turnthe music back on, and then the
entire room comes in and startsdancing.
Like all the other competitors.
No, the audience, too.
Everyone, everyone startsdancing.
So who wins?
We don't know.
We all do.
The audience wins.
(20:15):
We all do.
Okay, cool.
The winning is the friends wemade along the way.
unknown (20:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:24):
All right.
Well, that was fun.
So where do you want to startwith this?
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
Well, let's start with gatekeeping.
Because that's what this is allabout.
From 1967, when the originalbetrayal occurred with Doug
Hastings, to 1992 with, youknow, young Scott Hastings.
It was all about Barney Fife,no, very fife, very fife
(20:50):
gatekeeping, saying, like, thisis strictly ballroom.
We cannot this is the way Ithink.
This is the way I think dancingis supposed to be.
And I would rather have someonewho is so drunk he can barely
see straight be the Pan PacificGrand Prix champion than have
different types of steps, whichdoesn't really make sense.
(21:11):
Like, why are we doing thisthen?
Like, this is supposed to beabout creative expression.
Excellence and dance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's supposed to be aboutexcellence and dance and
creative expression and likeit's all made up anyway.
Are these guys amateur?
Well, that's the other thing.
It's like it's amateur, butlike, what does amateur like I
(21:32):
don't that's part of it too?
I do not know, I know Jack shitabout ballroom dancing.
This the entire sum of myknowledge of ballroom dancing
comes from this this movie.
Right, right.
I've caught one or two episodesof dancing.
So yeah, I don't really okay.
(21:55):
And that's like one of thethings that Shirley says when
she's fighting with Doug islike, you know, if we'd let you
dance your steps, we wouldn'thave been able to teach even.
And I don't know, maybe that'strue.
I mean, there are scandalswithin creative endeavors that
would be enough to scare peopleaway.
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
Yeah, maybe.
But I think it's interestingwhen you set the topic here as
gatekeeping, because there's thegatekeeper in Barry, but then
there's also the sort offollowers who just accept the
gatekeeping and then enforce itthemselves, like surely.
And so I think there's somethingreally interesting to be
extrapolated about the way thegatekeeping works because I
(22:37):
think we tend to, I tend to kindof just focus on the one
gatekeeper and forget about allof their enforcers who don't
even necessarily they don't havethe same sort of motives.
They're just like rulefollowers.
Like we we tend to follow rules,we tend to follow people who we
see in positions of authority.
(22:57):
Like it's like that famousexperiment where everyday people
like tortured people to deathbecause somebody was wearing a
white coat.
Or they thought they did.
They thought they did, theydidn't actually, because
somebody was wearing a whitecoat told them to.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
There's that internalized sense of like this
is right and this is wrong.
And like what's interesting isbecause if you asked, I mean,
all of this is ridiculous,obviously.
But if you asked ShirleyHastings, like, what's the most
important thing in the world toyou?
(23:31):
My family.
But is she acting like that?
Because she's acting like what'sthe most important thing in the
world to her is a trophy thatis, you know, like really not
that expensive.
You know, it's like somethingyou get down at the trophy store
that's down in the strip mall,you know, that literally no one
else cares about.
(23:53):
And that that is true of somuch.
Like we so often internalizethese external rules because of
people in higher power aregatekeeping.
SPEAKER_02 (24:06):
It's interesting too, even just thinking about
the gatekeeping, like what's atstake.
Like when you say it that way,when you talk about sort of
internalized like good and bador whatever, like for whatever
reason, to Barry Fife and tomany gatekeepers like him, like
change feels like dangerous.
And so it's sort of interestingto think about like the
(24:30):
psychology of it that makespeople dig in so hard that
they're trying to protectsomething.
And I don't think it's just ego.
Like there is a there's a safetyand a danger component, which
is, as you point out, completelyridiculous.
I mean, that as this moviepoints out by making the the
central action be this dancecompetition, which there'll be
(24:53):
another one next year,presumably.
So, you know, that really kindof underscores the sense of
safety and danger, safety in theway it's always been done in
danger and change, is completelymisplaced.
But I think we see that in allkinds of places where it's
harder to see.
SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
Well, and that kind of gets into one of the things
that I find really fascinatingabout this is in the first 10
minutes you're watching this andlike kind of documentary style,
it's interviewing Shirley andDoug, and Shirley's saying,
like, Scott won most of the thetrophies in in this room.
I mean, that's what's so tragicabout it.
(25:32):
His, you know, it was his yearto go all the way.
And he was gonna win thePan-Pacific Grand Prix of South
Arab.
And like you're sitting theregoing, that doesn't matter to
anyone at all.
SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
Well, also like it'll happen again next year.
Like, it's not like aonce-a-decade competition.
SPEAKER_00 (25:58):
She says that and you laugh because it's literally
ridiculous.
But if you zoom out, anythingthat we put on, like we say,
like, oh, it is so importantthat I get this, that I get the
corner office, that I win thatdepartmental award, is equally
ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Well, because ultimately what that is is
outsourcing happiness, right?
I'll be happy when that trophysits on my shelf.
And then the problem is you getthe trophy and you're still
miserable.
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
And then what do you do?
I so this gets to, I was justreminded of this recently.
When I was in college, eachdepartment they had an honors
day.
And this, I don't know if thisis common in in in smaller
schools.
I don't know if they did this atOberlin, but each department
would give out honors to tovarious students.
Oh no, I didn't I don't think wedid that.
(26:51):
I received an honor from theFrench department because I
double-majored in English andFrench once when I was uh a
sophomore and once again when Iwas a senior.
And that was amazing.
It felt amazing.
I really wanted the Englishdepartment to recognize me.
Like I wanted that so bad.
I wanted that recognition.
So my roommate's boyfriend wasalso an English major, and he
(27:15):
was a moody, taciturn, kind of apain in the ass.
Like I did not talk.
Emo.
He was emo.
Before it was cool.
So there was a day where thethree of us were walking across
campus and we ran into anEnglish professor.
Now he and I were both Englishmajors.
I never took a class with him,just never happened to take a
class with him.
(27:35):
All of a sudden, we run intothis English professor, and he
was Mr.
Schmooz, the boyfriend.
He was all like the moodytaciturn does not talk, was
suddenly like Mr.
Charm.
And I was I was sitting therewith my mouth like on my like my
chin was on my chest.
Like, who are you?
And guess who's getting awardsand honors at Honors Day from
(27:59):
the English department?
And I realized Mr.
Moody slash Mr.
Schmooze, you know, is like Dr.
Jackal Muster Hyde, he knewexactly who the glad-handing
professors were and he he wentfor them.
Whereas like my favoriteprofessors had nothing to do
with that shit because theydidn't care.
And he specifically schmoozedwith them.
(28:23):
That to me is like what this,it's a microcosm of that.
And so, like, since then, andit's not to say like I still
being recognized still feelsreally good.
I received an award from there'ssomething called the Plutus
Foundation about excellence andfinancial media, and I received
a award for freelancer of theyear, and I'm a little twee
(28:45):
about it.
I also know for a fact that Igot it because Joe, who came on
a few few episodes ago, put in aword for me because it's holding
the story about this this guy.
I know that's exactly whathappened.
I know that is what happened.
Because I told him I was like,Yeah, I don't I don't put any
any any stock in this shitanymore because of this
(29:07):
experience.
Like, because I don't do thatshit.
And I know he was on the panelfor it was decide.
Again, he's like, Emily shouldget it this year.
Thank you, Joe.
And I also I'm a little tweeabout it because I was just
like, that's my Plutus award.
I keep pensing it.
So anyway, what I'm saying isanything we do, like the Oscars
(29:33):
are ridiculous.
The Olympics are ridiculous.
They are.
That's not to say that they'renot worthwhile.
Right.
But they are ridiculous.
Right.
I think that's an importantdistinction distinction.
SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
I mean, I've been thinking a lot lately about like
this is such a weird thing.
What a tangent.
Sorry, folks.
What is the evolutionary benefitof being able to appreciate
beauty?
Like, what did our the you know,his Like ancient humans, like
how did it make them survive andthrive better?
I don't know.
Like I can see where patternrecognition or even like having
(30:07):
like a dopamine hit or like likebeing like getting aesthetic
satisfaction from differentthings could like help you
survive, but like actuallyappreciating beauty.
I don't know.
I'm not sure how it helps thespecies survive.
It's still really worthwhile,right?
I guess that's where that's whyI'm going here.
It's like just because theOlympics are ridiculous and like
(30:28):
in many ways meaningless doesnot make mean that they have no
meaning.
I know I just contradictedmyself, but well, and that's but
I stand by it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
And that's I feel like ultimately that's what this
story is about.
Because the Pan Pacific GrandPrix Latin dance is meaningless.
It's ridiculous.
But the meaning is the dance.
Dance is not meaningless, andthat's what that's what the
whole area is.
And that's what like Doug issaying to Scott is like it's
(31:01):
about the dance and where whenyou're focusing on winning this
trophy, you've lost it all.
SPEAKER_02 (31:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
Does Doug say that?
You've lost it all?
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
Oh, okay.
That's me.
That's cool.
That's Emily.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
And that's what brings these two people
together, too, is that she seesthat he wants because he's Scott
says, I'm bored with strictlyballroom.
I'm bored with the normal steps.
And she sees that he is tryingfor something that he's not
getting from what he's known allalong.
(31:37):
And she sees him.
He does not see her initiallyuntil she like because there's a
point where they're doingsomething and he's trying to
figure it out.
And she's like, No, I've gotsomething.
I've this is what I've beenworking on at home.
And he's he's like, No, no, no,shh, and she finally just does
it.
And he's like, Whoa, what wasthat?
And that's when he first reallysees her.
And so that's also, I think,really lovely because where his
(32:00):
parents don't see each other isbecause his mother was so
focused on winning rather thanon dance.
And at the end, when everyonecomes onto the dance floor, the
first to join on the dance flooris Doug goes to Shirley and
says, Will you have this dancewith me?
And she says yes.
(32:21):
And there's there's this senseof like there is still something
there between them.
There is still dance betweenthem, even though they have not
danced together in 25 years.
And that's that's it's lovely.
It's it's just it feels good forthis ridiculous movie.
SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Well, I mean, it sounds to me like it's sort of a
meditation about the power ofjoy and creativity to bring us
together.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
And then like the the a life lived in fear is a
life half-lived.
I love that in terms of likelooking at it in terms of
creativity.
Because if you're looking at itin terms of like fear, when
you're talking about this likeGrand Prix, Pan Pacific Grand
Prix, oh my goodness, it's sosilly.
But if you're looking at it interms of like, because I do
(33:10):
carry such anxiety aboutcreativity, but say no, like the
wholehearted don't live in fearof your creativity, jump right
in.
That is amazing.
And like that, it's coming froma director, and Boz Lerman also
wrote this with the coco-author, and it started as a
(33:31):
stage play.
So it started as a stage play in1984 and went through a couple
iterations.
Lerman had the original idea andhad like some help with writers
and things like that.
And then also Mercurio and I'mnot gonna remember her name, but
all of these are dancers.
Like Mercurio was was theactresses are dancers.
(33:51):
Paul Mercurio was part of theAustralian ballet as of age 19.
Just really truly talentedpeople.
And so that's also one of thethings that's really remarkable
about this is that you've gotthis dichotomy between this like
tempest in a teapot and likeremarkable dancing.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So talk to me about white peoplewho ruin everything.
I think that like by having Franand her family actually speak
Spanish to one another, thathelps to underscore Scott's
whiteness, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
So, and this is this is one of those things where
like I saw it this time, Idefinitely didn't notice it when
I saw it as a teenager.
And then because it's set inAustralia, I feel a little less
qualified to discuss thisbecause I don't really have a
sense of where the history ofLatinx people in Australia.
(34:49):
But the white people ruineverything.
It's the paso doble.
SPEAKER_02 (34:53):
Right, which is not which when when he does it the
way you're supposed to do it onthe competition floor, the
actually the this Latin dance,these Latin people say that
ain't it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Yeah.
So, and it was like not evenlike cultural appropriation, it
was like just culturally wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
Um and that got me thinkingabout also the costumes that
everyone is wearing.
What Scott and Fran are wearingfor the Latin dance is very
(35:27):
traditional Latin costumes.
She's wearing one of thoseskirts that is like got a long,
it's longer in the back than inthe front.
So you can see her legs, andhe's got one of those short
jackets and then like very tall,like high pants.
It's the short jacket with allthe sequins, and it's very
traditional.
And when I say like it'sinteresting to say white people
(35:48):
because I think that's verySpanish, which Spain is white
people.
SPEAKER_02 (35:55):
I mean, that's the thing about whiteness, right?
Is that erases differencebecause it once upon a time
Spanish and Italian and Irishand Polish were all distinct,
but now they're all white.
So it just erases difference.
SPEAKER_00 (36:08):
It's also like I'm not sure how this plays out in
Australia, New Zealand, andAustralian culture.
But when that then when you lookat the like Latin costumes of
everyone else on the dancefloor, they're like caricatures.
They're like peacocks.
They're wearing like sequinedtuxedos and like I can't think
(36:33):
of what those they would becalled, but like puffing puffy
sleeves and and then likebasically bikinis with like not
quite like feathers attached asskirts.
And on the one hand, it's like,okay, you don't want to do
cultural appropriation whereyou're wearing a costume that's
not yours, but on the otherhand, like that ain't it.
(36:57):
So, but that is traditional forballroom dancing and stuff, like
it's complicated.
It's complicated, but it it hadme feeling like white people
ruin everything.
And like for people who arereally into ballroom, like I I
forgive me, I don't knowballroom.
I don't know the evolution ofhow those costumes came to be.
(37:20):
There might be an amazinghistory that I know nothing
about.
And so I'm coming in, but Ithink there is something really
interesting here in the the factthat there's this like strictly
ballroom rule that is has takensomething.
It's like this is Latin dance,and we got all of these people
who are all like all of them areblonde and like bleached blonde.
(37:44):
So like Ken is like bleachedblonde and Liz bleached blonde.
Wayne and his partner bothredhead, Shirley is bleached
blonde, but like all of thedancers are like performing
whiteness.
And even like Barry Fife, histoupee is blonde, and his
girlfriend wife, whatever sheis, she she is bleached blonde.
(38:07):
So they they are all very muchperforming whiteness, as is Les.
He's bleach blonde, but this isthe Latin dance, and so it's
weird.
It's this very weird thing, it'scomplicated.
Does it pass Bechtel?
It does, actually.
It does very well.
We have many female characterswith names and they talk to each
(38:28):
other, they talk to each otherin mean girl ways.
Oh, okay.
So Shirley tells Bechtel is avery low bar.
Shirley tells Fran like sheshould go home because
everything would be better ifshe weren't there.
Fran's grandmother also tellsFran that her her mother would
be proud of her if she werehere.
So that's that's lovely too.
(38:49):
Does the does grandma have aname?
She does, but I don't rememberwhat it is.
But yes, there's a name.
And then Scott has a littlesister who has a name that I
don't remember, but she talks toLiz, she talks to Shirley, she
talks to Fran.
There's there's there's lots ofconversation.
Oh, and she talks to Barry'sgirlfriend slash wife, whatever
her name.
Barry's girlfriend slash wife isnamed Charm Leachman.
(39:12):
She tells her, You should beashamed of yourself, Miss
Leechman.
So yeah.
But this the gender stuff, it islike, as Liz says, where the man
goes, the lady must follow.
Because it is very much Scott'sdecision on everything.
Some of that has to do with thefact that he's the competitor
(39:35):
whose name is like she does nothave whatever the background is
necessary to put in as acompetitor, and she doesn't have
Oh, she's just heart partner forthe tournament.
But there's also and like shedefinitely has agency.
Like she she she's the one wholike comes to him and says,
(39:56):
like, I think you could do thisand I want to do this with you.
She calls him a gutless wondermultiple times.
Fran does.
Sorry, I thought we were talkingabout it.
Oh no, no, no, no.
No, right, yeah, right.
I see.
So I I think you know, for 1992,I think it's pretty good.
SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
Yeah, it sounds like it.
And and even like the genderstuff, thinking about like the
the male, the man leads andwhatever, the dynamic between
Shirley and Doug, that wasn'tthe case.
I mean, there was another maninterfering, but it's at least,
you know, before the sort ofreconciliation because of the
joy of dance at the end, itsounds like Shirley very much
was the wore the pants in thefamily to use a outdated
(40:37):
expression.
SPEAKER_00 (40:38):
And even with the Fran's father being like
overprotective, it seemed to bemore that he didn't know where
she was and he wanted to know.
Not so much that like as soon ashe was like, Okay, who is this
kid?
What have you been doing?
SPEAKER_02 (40:53):
Yeah, he wasn't policing, he wasn't policing her
sexuality.
It didn't sound like that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
And as soon as like they found out, like, oh, you
you're dancing, show me.
All right, we're gonna teach youhow to dance.
And they're like, they'rethey're sewing costumes for him,
and like they we show, we we seethere's some really hot scenes
because Fran's father is verygood looking.
There's some really, really goodscenes of Rico and Scott dancing
(41:17):
together where he's teachinghim.
SPEAKER_02 (41:19):
You know, I was gonna say, I wonder what this
movie would be like if we remadeit today.
When the I know the rules ofballroom dancing have changed,
and now you can have same-sexcouples on the dance floor,
which I only know because of my,you know, Instagram reels with
these super hot dances with twomen that I enjoy.
But I wonder like if we were tolike write a you know, a sequel
(41:40):
that's set today where itdoesn't have to be a hetero like
couple, like what changes withthat unique?
Um it doesn't really matter.
It just is like my that's wheremy brain went when we were
talking about this.
Yeah.
So all right.
Well, any final thoughts fromyou before I try and reflect
back to you what I heard aboutStrictly Ballroom?
SPEAKER_00 (42:01):
Honestly, this is this is a delightful film with
one exception.
It it holds up.
And the one exception is Fifecalls less the homophobic F
word, but he's a horrible humanbeing.
And that is like the only thingthat doesn't hold up.
And even then, that's like he'sa horrible human being.
(42:22):
And so I was really pleasantlysurprised how well this movie
holds up, how delightful it isfrom beginning to end.
It's got a great soundtrack, itis full of eye candy.
And it's it's genuinely funnyand like and it's feel good.
(42:42):
Like you you really feel good,even as you're like, come on,
people.
But at the same time, you'rejust like, no, this is this is
really important.
Like the Pan Pacific Grand PrixLatin finals trophy matters not
at all.
But what Scott and Fran aredoing is really important, you
(43:05):
know?
SPEAKER_02 (43:06):
Yeah.
So I'm thinking aboutChristopher Guest movies.
When you say that, the thinglike the not important, like it
makes me think of Best and Show.
Maybe we'll put that on thelist.
Anyway, let me see if I canreflect back to you what you
brought about this delightfulmovie from 1992, directed by Baz
Lerman and apparently written byhim as well, with some help.
I think we spent a lot of timeactually thinking about
gatekeeping and not just sort ofthe like that it happens and
(43:28):
what the effects are ofgatekeeping, but also the ways
in which sort of gatekeepershave enforcers who have
internalized the idea, the ideasof right and wrong or good and
bad or whatever safety anddanger that the gatekeepers have
sold them.
So that was sort of aninteresting meditation that kind
of goes through the moviebecause of this character whose
(43:50):
name is not Barney Fife, it's infact Barry Fife.
And he has a very bad toupee,and he's a horrible human being,
and he uses the F-word, the Fhomophobic F-word, not fuck.
Okay.
We also talked a lot aboutconnected to gatekeeping is the
very low stakes of likeeverything, right?
(44:11):
Like specifically, we're talkingabout the pan-Pacific Grand Prix
Latin dance championship in thisfilm.
But I think you extrapolated,you use the phrase zoom out and
sort of talk about like almosteverything that we do is just
sort of ridiculous like this.
Like the stakes are not what wemake them.
(44:32):
Like we make the stakes highwhen in fact they don't matter
much of the time.
Yeah, I think like oncologistsmight disagree with us, but
well, I mean, that's heartsurgeons.
SPEAKER_00 (44:43):
I mean, that's that's why like competitions
don't matter.
SPEAKER_02 (44:48):
Right.
Competitions, competitions,yeah.
Specifically, yeah.
I think that's right.
So I think that was a that was akey learning for you.
There was something reallyinteresting in a life lived in
fear is a life half-lived.
And I think that's sort of likejust general advice for humans,
(45:08):
but you actually like did alittle like even further
interpretation of that becauseof the way it shows up in this
movie, to talk specificallyabout creative pursuits and the
idea that sort of shrinkingone's creative outlets or
creative endeavors for fear ofbeing judged, failing, whatever
(45:29):
it is that we fear when we don'tput our work out into the world,
that's actually sort of animportant lesson about like
living our full creative selves,not just about taking risks and
like asking someone out on adate or like applying for the
job that you're not qualifiedfor, but actually like living as
creative beings.
And I think that's important,that distinction.
(45:52):
I appreciated your bringingthat, and that it came from this
movie, especially since sort ofthe climax, the reconciliation
between the estranged parents,or they weren't quite estranged,
but they also weren't quitetogether either.
And sort of realizing that thegatekeeper is a gatekeeper and a
horrible human being, what thatunlocked was joy in creativity,
(46:14):
joy in dance in this case, thatis actually what brings all of
these people together.
That's why they do thiscompetition because they all
love dance.
And so by uncovering, unmaskingthe gatekeeper in this case, we
actually were able to see thewhole universe of the movie
return to the joy of dance.
(46:35):
And that's really beautiful.
And then lastly, I heard somegender stuff that was kind of
minor.
It passes Bechtel, and there issome stuff about like who leads
because of the dance and likeFrance sort of following, which
is also partially about thestory, but partially about
gender.
So there's there's a little bitof messiness there.
Oh, and white people ruineverything, which is true, but
(46:56):
also like complicated in thismovie because we don't fully
understand the milieu ofAustralian culture and also like
Latin, it's Latin dance, butit's also ballroom culture, and
like it's complicated, but thereis there does seem to be
something in there, especiallyin the fact that Fran and her
family speak Spanish to oneanother.
So they're not like the moviemakers made sure we understood
(47:19):
that they were different fromthe English-only speaking
Australians.
And lastly, my sister is aPlutus award-winning finance
writer, you people.
SPEAKER_01 (47:30):
Like, I want you to like note that.
So did I forget anything else?
SPEAKER_02 (47:41):
Well, next time I'm excited to bring you my deep
thoughts about the cartoon movieLand Before Time by Don Bluth
with the dinosaurs.
SPEAKER_00 (47:49):
That's awesome.
See you then.
SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make
it free to produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon.
There's a link in the shownotes.
Or leave a positive review soothers can find us.
And of course, share the showwith your people.
(48:18):
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
Incompitech.com.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
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