I have my eyes... I have my cunning... and I have my strength.
This obscure sword-and-sorcery fantasy film from the early 1980s was a staple of the Guy sisters' formative pop culture years because it was on regular rotation on HBO (which people jokingly claimed stood for "Hey! Beastmaster's on!"). This week, Tracie delves back into the bizarre five act storytelling choices that animate the journey of Marc Singer's Dar, a prince stolen from his mother's womb by an evil priest--played by Rip Torn in a prosthetic nose--who is telepathically connected to animals.
The Guy girls remembered Dar's animal companions with fondness, especially his little ferret friends, and the over-the-top level of male nudity (it was a lot even for the early 1980s) was certainly, ahem, interesting in ways Tracie and Emily couldn't articulate as small children, but the movie offers some ugly cultural commentary about race, women, romance, consent, and sexuality, not to mention the film's covert reference to blood libel in Rip Torn's big-nosed child-sacrificing religious leader. The Beastmaster also weirdly subverts storytelling expectations by continuing past the third act, making a relatively short film feel way too long. Still, there are many pretty people, cool animals, and fascinating storytelling details to admire in this forgotten 80s cult favorite.
No need for bat-people hearing. Just put on your headphones and listen in!
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, and analyzing pop culture for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, and whatever else we find.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's like these really interesting sort of
moments, like interesting worldbuilding, and these bat
creatures who worship an eagleand eat through or I don't even
know if they're eating, butdissolve creatures through their
wings and have no mouth.
And this movie is told in fiveacts, which is unusual for films
(00:21):
.
Like, usually, we only getthree acts and as a result, like
for the last 20 minutes, I'mlike why is this movie not over?
You know, I wonder if thiswould have been like a stronger
storytelling movie if somebodyhad been like you know, don,
let's just do three acts and getrid of the bat thing.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's just
(00:42):
pop culture, what others mightdeem stupid shit?
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
This is Tracy Guy-Decker, andyou're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
(01:04):
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I will besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1982 film the Beastmasterwith my sister, emily Guy-Burken
, and with you.
Let's dive in.
All right, em.
So I know you've seen thisbecause we watched it together
many times, because it was oncable.
(01:25):
In fact, in like researchingthis, I realized that HBO for a
while stood for heyBeastmaster's on.
So I know of He-Man becausemuscles blonde hair Tiger, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
There's a lot of He-Man resonance there.
Yeah, and I, little baby Emily,approved, because I'm nothing
if not consistent.
And the ferrets I remember he,I think he was it two ferrets, I
think it was two ferrets.
Yeah, two ferrets, two ferrets.
And remember he, I think he wasit, two ferrets, I think it was
two ferrets, yeah, two ferrets.
Two ferrets and they were kindof cool and they were the reason
(02:11):
why you were like I would likeferrets.
And then I remember learningthat ferrets often died in like
Lazy Boy Recliners.
That's my recollection of himand so all of that is tied up in
Beastmaster and I kind of havea vague memory of the love
interest, being kind of sassyand that a little that's about
(02:33):
it.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah yeah, this one's like real old and deep.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah.
So, other than like trip downmemory lane, tell me why we're
talking about this today.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I don't even know why I picked it honestly like it.
It was on the list because itwas one of the ones that again
was foundational, like wewatched it lots of times when we
were kids because, hey,beastmasters on on hbo.
But I don't even know why rightnow, I don't, I don't have a
good answer except that it was.
I was like, oh, we haven't donea sword and sorcery in a while,
so sorry, but I am excited totalk about it because in rewatch
(03:07):
I'm realizing there were, wellfor one, mark Singer who played
Dar the beast master was like.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I kind of remember his voice too, like there was
something yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
He was ripped.
Oh boy, like before, ripped wascool and there was a little bit
of a sexual awakening forelementary school Tracy, I think
, and probably lots of otherpeople.
I'll get into that a little bit.
So on rewatch, that's there Iwant to talk about in this movie
, like gender and sexuality andnudity actually, because like
(03:41):
there's a lot of nudity, but notjust the women.
Like after about I don't know,maybe 20 or 30 minutes, like
Mark Singer doesn't wear a shirtfor the whole rest of the movie
, you know, and he's not reallywearing pants either, he's
wearing like a loincloth andlike a belt with like leather
fringe kind of a thing.
So that's part of why hereminds you of.
(04:01):
He-Man Totally.
So it's not like one of thoselike sword and sorcery where the
men are in full armor and thewomen are in rags.
It's not that.
I kind of want to talk aboutthat a little bit.
There's also Rip Torn is thebad guy, so like a young Rip
Torn in a prosthetic nose, whichis bizarre, and that's kind of
weird seeing him as a young man,because my head he is Zed from
(04:24):
Men in Black and like that's it.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, like I feel like he sprang fully formed as a
50 year old yeah, no, he didn't, he didn't, and this movie is
proof so.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So I wanted that was an interesting thing to note.
But Rip Torn's character, mayax, has these three witches who I
don don't know are hiscompanions, servants.
I don't really understand.
And there's something, reallythere's some tension there about
women's sexuality and thedanger of women's sexuality
specifically in these witchesthat I want to get into.
(04:55):
I want to talk about romanceand what messages baby Tracy and
baby Emily were getting aboutromance from this movie, because
it was fucked up, like reallyReally fucked up.
I want to talk about race.
In this movie there's not a lot, but John Amos plays a very key
character, seth, and his raceis not remarked upon at all,
(05:17):
which is sort of interesting.
And then I want to talk aboutstorytelling.
This movie is told in five acts, which is unusual for films.
Like usually we only get threeacts and, as a result, like for
the last 20 minutes, I'm likewhy is this movie not over?
You know, and also part of thereason it wasn't over was
because I think the director,don Coscarelli, like he had a
lot of really good ideas and hewanted to use all of them and he
(05:39):
needed five acts to like comeall the way back to it, or else
there would have been aChekhov's bat creature, so
Chekhov's ferret, yeah, kind ofKind of.
So I want to like talk aboutlike all of the good ideas and
like maybe Coscarelli could havestood to have like an Ezra
(06:00):
Pound of sorts who was like goodidea, save it for the next
movie or something I don't know.
This movie came like like rightafter Conan the Barbarian.
A lot of people talk about itas a ripoff.
It was not in fact a ripoff,because it was released like
three months later, so the moviemakers were making them
simultaneously.
Rather, I think there wassomething in the zeitgeist that
was like into like rippedshirtless dudes and swords and
(06:24):
sorcery.
So, anyway, that's enoughpreface.
I'm gonna give you the storywhile I've act, I will do my
best.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I do want to mention I I texted you earlier this week
where I was saying like Irealized how often, when we do
the trying to be concise ingiving the synopsis, we'll say,
say, shenanigans ensue.
I was like, yeah, there's someshenanigans, there will be some.
So you can, you know, just cutto the chase with shenanigans
ensue, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
So let's talk about the shenanigans in this movie.
So we open with these threewitches and they're looking in a
cauldron and I'm just going toset that scene.
I won't give as much detail forthe whole thing, but like from
behind these three witches andthey're looking in a cauldron
and I'm just going to set thatscene I won't give as much
detail for the whole thing, butlike from behind these three
women, like looking down into acauldron and they're dressed
very scantily and they aremodels like the actresses, are
(07:15):
very well built and they're sortof undulating in very sexy ways
, like it's hot.
And then you get up close andyou see their faces and they're
totally deformed, like like half.
They're these weird like masksand like their eyes are weird
and they don't have proper hairand they're asymmetrical and
just really grotesque.
And so I just want to name thatup front.
(07:36):
That's like how we enter.
So these three witches aretalking to Maax Riptorn in his
prosthetic nose.
Witches are talking to MayaxRiptorn in his prosthetic nose
and we learn that there is aprophecy that the unborn son of
King Zed that's a weirdcoincidence the unborn son of
King Zed is going to kill Mayaxand Mayax is like no, he won't,
(08:01):
because I'm going to kill himfirst, right?
So you know.
That's how all these thingsstart.
So King Zed comes in and says Iunderstand, you're going to do
a child sacrifice.
We don't do that in this, inthis kingdom.
You're banished and Mayax, likeever the diplomat, is like oh
damn straight, I'm going to killhim and it's going to be your
unborn son that I kill.
So then this really weird thing, like Mayax proves his like
(08:24):
power and psychological power bylike informing, like just with
a head nod, the two priests I'mputting quotes around that, but
the two priests of Ar A-R that'sthe name of the god that he
serves, with a head nod fromMayax like hang themselves with
these devices that they have.
It's bizarre.
And our parents, let us watchthis Seriously, it's bizarre,
anyway.
And our parents, let us watchthis Seriously, it's bizarre.
(08:47):
So Zed's like taken away, likebanished Maax.
Cut to the next scene.
Zed and his queen are in bedtogether and the witches come
and magically like paralyze thetwo people, the queen and the
king.
The queen is pregnant and thenmagically move the baby from her
(09:09):
, from the woman's womb, to thatof a cow that the witch has
brought with her.
And it's kind of interestinglike there's no exposition, but
you know exactly what'shappening.
He did a great job actually ofconveying what was happening.
So the witch takes the cow themother does not survive this
transfer, by the way so thewitch takes the cow off, you
(09:31):
know, into the countryside, cutsthe baby out of its womb and is
going to the baby needs to bebranded and then sacrificed to
the god Ar.
So we're watching from behindand she brands the palm of the
child and the child cries.
And then this farmer who's like, sees it happening and hears
the baby cry, realizes somethingbad is happening and so he
(09:54):
actually, like, kills the witchand saves the baby and then
takes him home and raises him ashis own.
So we have some like cut scenesto see the baby Dar is his name
growing up and we learn that hehas this power, this telepathic
connection with animals becauseof the cow.
Maybe they never explain it,but I mean, that's certainly the
(10:15):
takeaway I had was that becausehe hitched a ride in a cow's
womb for a while, he has atelepathic connection with
animals, but they never sayexplicitly why so, and his
adoptive father tells him he hasto keep that a secret.
No one should know about hisabilities.
So fast forward.
Again.
Now we meet Dar as Mark Singer.
He's just this happy-go-luckysubsistence farmer with his
(10:40):
family in his village whoinexplicably have their houses
like up on tall stilts, eventhough they're not near water or
anything, I don't know.
Anyway, he's out like hoeingrocks with the other dudes and
that is not a euphemism.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
They're literally like hoeing rocks.
That's just what they'retelling their parents they're
doing.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
With the other like young men of the village.
When the dog, his dog, totoT-O-D-O I was watching with the
subtitles like starts to freakout.
I was like what's going on?
And it's the Jun, which is likethe horde, like the barbarians,
and they're heading toward thevillage and so all of the rock
hoers are like running back tothe village where Dar's adopted
(11:34):
dad like stands to defend thevillage from this, these
barbarians, and dies instantlyLike they kill him almost
immediately.
Everyone dies in the villageand dar is like knocked out and
the dog who has taken an arrowin the shoulder like drags his
unconscious body like away fromthe fray.
So dar survives, the dogdoesn't.
(11:55):
No one in the village survives.
And when dar wakes up, like thewhole village is just
devastated and like likeegregious, not just like bodies
everywhere, but like on pikesand stuff.
It's really, it's reallyunpleasant, like I can't believe
we were kids watching this.
They didn't know, they didn'tknow.
So he sets the village in thissymbol which is like like the do
(12:17):
not enter sign, like a circlewith a line through it, which I
see in commentary was meant tobe the symbol of his village.
It wasn't made particularlyclear.
Anyway, he sets them all inthis huge circle with the line
and then sets them on fire, butlike that's the funeral rite,
like the whole village,including the dog who he rests
(12:38):
in his father's arms.
Very poignant, very poignant.
And then we have like a goodlike I don't know 15 minutes of
him just like waving swords andsticks around and like running
through the desert and like justlooking really hot and sweaty,
like and hot in both senses ofthe word I want to say and like
(12:59):
waving swords around and likeyeah, no, no, he is not Ho and
Rox, no, no.
So and in that like montage oflike Mark Singer looking hot, we
also see him sort oftelepathically connect with this
eagle and he actually can seethrough its eyes.
(13:20):
So that's kind of cool and weactually we see him through its
eyes, which today they do with adrone, but I think they must
have been using a helicopter in1982, which is really kind of
impressive.
And then he is like bathing orsomething, and these two little
ferrets come and steal hisclothes.
I remember that, and so he,like, chased the ferrets were
(13:41):
awesome so he chases the ferretsto get his clothes back and
like and lands in quicksand andthe ferrets save him.
But then one of them falls inso he saves it and then he names
them their Kodo and Podo.
So we had the dog Toto, whodied.
Now we have the ferrets Kodoand Podo.
The eagle doesn't have a name.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So Dar has has a real great imagination, kodo and
Poto the eagle doesn't have aname.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So Dar has a real great imagination.
Well, so we keep going.
He's still just sort oftraveling, and then he senses
you know, his spidey sensestingle and he comes upon this.
I think it's meant to be like aleopard.
It's actually a tiger that'sbeen dyed black, that is like
chained up and these men kind oflike I don't know trying to
kill it or torture it or I don'tknow what they're doing to it.
(14:28):
But he decides he's gonna savethe tiger, the cat and the
ferrets are gonna help him.
So he manages to chase off andor kill like three or four dudes
who were harassing this cat,this big cat, and so now he's
got a giant tiger thing, that ishis companion, who he names Roo
(14:48):
, which the subtitles spelledR-U-H, but I think it's meant to
be sort of like the sound, likethe, you know kind of a sound
that the tiger makes.
I don't know for sure, anyway,and he has this like very cheesy
line like I have my eyes, Ihave my thieves and now I have
my strength, or something likethat.
I don't know if the thieves iswhat he calls the ferrets but
(15:13):
it's something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's really ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
All right, Great line delivery there.
Mark Singer yeah, he is areally good actor and I was
clearly watching, just like dadused to read Playboy for the
articles Singer was hired forthat just peccable line delivery
yeah.
So, oh man, so he meets.
I'm going to get this out oforder, it totally doesn't matter
(15:35):
.
He says he's going to Aruk,which is the kingdom where he
was born, though he doesn't knowit Because somehow Mayak's the
bad guy.
The Rip Torn character is likeaffiliated, aligned with the
Juns, the barbarians.
It's very unclear how, likemaybe it's like a Herod sort of
thing where he's just killingeveryone, like it's just it's
(15:57):
unclear, because he knows, maaxknows that the baby lived Anyway
.
So he says he's going to try andfind these priests of R and
then he ends up in this weirdlike he follows these like
lights that are in these treesand he ends up then there's like
a person like strung up in acage.
He lets the guy out of the cageand the guy is immediately like
(16:20):
enveloped in this creaturethat's like a man with no mouth
and like bat wings, and and heenvelops him in the bat wings
and somehow like digests him,leaving only bones.
And there's a ton of these guys, like like 20 of them, like dar
is not gonna survive this, butjust then his eagle comes in and
lands on his arm.
(16:40):
Like the eagle comes and likeit's like hey, dude, what's up?
And lands on his arm and turnsout the bat wings like worship a
god.
That's like an eagle god, whichthey make plain when the eagle
lands on the god idol.
And so the bat dudes are likeoh you're cool, except they
don't speak because they don'thave mouths.
The way they say oh you're coolis that they put this like
(17:00):
necklace, with a pendant that'san eagle shape, like on his
sword, and then he escapes.
Remember the Batdudes and thefact that they like eagles.
Because, it's Chekhov's Batdude.
It's Chekhov's bat dude.
Okay, so then he meets Seth andTal.
So there's a priest of Arr whothey know the unborn kid is now
(17:21):
an adult and he's out there andhe's coming for Maax.
And so they found him.
And the priest is like there'sa ring with an eye in it which I
remembered.
I don't know if you rememberthat thing, but there's a ring
with an eye in it that allowsMaax to see what's happening at
a distance.
And so this priest of Arr liketries to kill Dar and Dar
(17:41):
manages to like chase him off orwhatever there are two of them
and the other one like somehowends up being chased by Rue, the
cat.
And the cat falls into a trap,like a pit that's been dug and
covered over, and the priest isgoing to kill the cat.
And the cat falls into a trap,like a pit that's been dug and
covered over, and the priest isgonna kill the cat.
But seth and tal, john amos anda young man called joshua
(18:04):
milrad, who was like maybe 13 atthe time they interrupt this
cat killing and actually thepriest ends up in the pit with
rue, who dispatches him.
So then dar like rushes up totry and help his cat friend and
finds Seth and Tal and there'slike this little bit of a
standoff.
(18:24):
But then Dar looks in the pit,realizes what happened and says
I'm indebted to you.
And then the three of them helpRue get out of the pit and they
decide to travel together.
We eventually learn that Seth,john Amos, is the former captain
of the guard for King Zed andis now protecting Zed's son, tal
, the prince, who presumably isa half-brother of Dar and oh, I
(18:49):
totally skipped a part so he's ahalf-brother of Dar, which we
don't know yet.
We also learn that a so-calledslave girl that Dar has met is
Tal's cousin.
So I skipped that part, butit's very important.
So I'm going to tell you.
Now.
Dar comes upon two women bathingin a pool with a waterfall, and
it's totally gratuitous boobies, you know from both of these
(19:10):
women.
Tanya Roberts is the actresswho plays the love interest Kiri
.
Dar sends the ferrets to gosteal her clothes the way that
they stole his.
So she comes out and she startschasing them and she like she
had this weird like she coversher breasts is what I'm trying
to say and so she's chasing theferrets to try and get her
clothes back.
And then she comes upon Rue theblack tiger, who's like,
(19:32):
threatening her Dar, comes inand is like, stand back.
And like you have to show himwho's boss.
And like saves her, puttingquotes around that from the
fierce beast of the tiger, andthen says you owe me your life,
but I'll take this as paymentinstead, and forcibly kisses her
and I'm watching going, oh no,like a salt monster.
(19:56):
That's why we choose the tiger,totally right.
So well, kiri's like a badassand she like I mean she like
flips him and like has her handon his throat.
It's like who are you?
You know, and he says his nameand whatever.
And then it somehow becomesclear she's a slave.
(20:18):
She's got these like welts onher back from having been
whipped and he's like you needto fight back, you know.
She's like you don't explainmuch.
What choice do I have?
You know?
So she's.
So we learned she's a slave tothe priests of Arr and somehow
she drops this necklace, whichis like a bunch of medallions
all strung together.
So now back to where I was inthe story.
(20:40):
He's with Tal and Seth andtalking about like he's also
going to Aruk because he wantsto fight Maax, because Maax
somehow controls the people whokilled his family, and so they
decide to travel together andthey talk about the ferrets,
because everybody loves theferrets, and he has this like
sack of stuff that the ferretshave stolen and he dumps it out
(21:03):
and includes, like the ring thatactually has an eye in it.
The eyelid lifts up and Talputs the ring on and includes
the necklace with the medallionsthat had come from Kiri and
Seth freaks out.
He's like where did you getthis, dar's?
Like it was from a slave girl.
And they're like she is noslave girl, and it turns out
she's Tal's cousin, which I'mpretty sure biologically makes
(21:25):
her also Dar's cousin, sincethey're brothers, unless maybe
the second wife's, but I don'tknow but anyway, that is they
never talk about.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Well within, you know royalty norms I suppose.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
So shenanigans ensue.
The three guys like they traveltogether.
They end up back at aruk.
There's a child sacrificehappening, which dar interrupts
by sending the eagle to gosnatch the child out of like.
They drop the child down intolike.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
There's a giant pyramid with the flames at the
bottom and they drop the kiddown as in like baby, uh-uh,
like six or seven year old eagleis big enough to carry off a
six or seven year old.
So this eagle is big enough tocarry off a six or seven year
old.
That was exactly my thought asit happened.
Because I'm just like that's astrong ass eagle, or that is a
malnourished kid?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
No, it was a strong ass eagle so, which backfires a
little bit, because apparentlyan eagle is one of the
manifestations of the god Arr.
And so Maax is like see, arrwill not be satisfied until you,
you know, give him all yourchildren or whatever.
But that means Dar makes afriend because he returns the
child to her father, now thefather Sacco, who has a cart and
(22:45):
horses, which is very helpfullater.
So it's Chekhov's cart andhorses, yeah, yeah, totally.
So they continue traveling.
They gotta save kiri.
She's gonna be sacrificed.
We don't know why, but she andlike five other slave girls are
being sacrificed.
We don't know why, but they'rebeing, they're being taken like
from some place, not the pyramid, like to some place that is the
(23:10):
pyramid.
Anyway, dar and seth and talinterrupt that travel.
They kill the priest, they savethe girls, all of whom
disappear somehow, except forKiri, and they decide they're
going to go save King Zed, whois still alive.
So they get into the pyramid.
We meet death guards who thepriests somehow like cause like
(23:33):
brain damage by sticking likeglow-in-the-dark blue goo in
their ears and they have likebig, like spiky armor on their
arms and their legs but no otherclothes at all except for like
a jockstrap, slash loincloth andthey find King Zed.
His eyes have been put out andthey're like escaping with him,
but the ferrets have gone off onan errand and and so they get
(23:56):
to this room, which you know isevil, because there's this giant
skull that, like, blocks theentryway.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
It goes up and down on pulley system and that is
what I want for my garagetotally totally, they have to go
.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
They have to go.
Dar says I can't leave withoutmy little ones, meaning the
ferrets, and so everybody goes.
But he waits behind and thedeath guard is coming chasing
the ferrets and a bunch ofpriests, and then it's like very
tense.
And then Kiri comes back andthey managed to escape out the
side like with ropes, and it'sso exciting out the side like
(24:38):
with ropes, and it's so exciting.
Okay.
So now they're off in a camp.
Seth has been on his own liketrying to gather an army of
rebels.
They have about 35 people.
That's not an army.
So zed the king is like we haveenough people because we have
heart and we're gonna take mykingdom back.
And dar's like maybe we shouldlike strategize a little bit.
(24:59):
And seth, who was like a reallystrong and smart dude, suddenly
is like just listen to thebeast master.
He knows what's happening.
And so seth says you know,trust the beast master, he's
already saved your life.
Zed says no, he's a freak heactually says freak who talks to
the animals, he's not welcomein my kingdom and like banishes
(25:20):
him.
So he looks really hurt andlike runs away.
And when we cut to his faceagain, there's like like tear
trails down Mark Singer's faceNative American commercial PSA.
Kinda.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
But both eyes.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah.
And so he's there with his youknow, with his animals, and and
Kiri comes to talk to him andshe's like I'm so sorry.
And he's like come with me.
And she says I can't, I have aduty.
So they like kiss and he goesaway, and or she goes away,
rather I don't remember what itis that makes him go back, but
(25:57):
he does.
Oh, seth like ends up seeing theeye and realizes that mayax
knows all of their plans,because that has just been
saying how, like where they're,they're gonna attack the north
wall and what they're gonna do.
And seth sees the eye and stabsit.
And then the witch is like oh,because it was her eye.
I remember that very clearlyfrom when we were kids.
And seth is like your highness,we can't.
(26:20):
He knows we can't do this.
And zed's like no, that's whatwe're doing.
And seth goes we are all doomed, and so we skip that.
We don't see it happen at all.
We just the next scene, likemayax has them all captive and
dar comes to get them I don'teven remember why, like who
calls him back or whatever.
(26:40):
But so he goes and like fightseverybody off and they're like
kind of I mean seth and kiri dohelp and then, like, once the
people of Uruk see that likeMaax maybe is going to be
overthrown, they actually doalso fight.
Maax kills Zed and then Darlike mortally wounds him, but
(27:03):
he's not dead.
And so Dar like saves Kiri andthey're like has his back to
Maax and Maax is like gonna gethim.
And one of the ferrets likejumps on Maax and like has his
back to Max and Max is likegonna get him and one of the
ferrets like jumps on Max andlike attacks him and they both
Max and the ferret, fall intothe fire and the ferret's gone
(27:24):
and it's very, very sad and itshould have been over.
But it wasn't over Because thatwas only the end of the third
act.
Yeah, so in the next scene or alater scene, we see the
surviving ferret like poke herhead up out of the little pouch
that she lives in by his belt,and then two little baby ferrets
(27:45):
poke their heads up too.
So she was pregnant when herpartner died.
So they're like just living ina rook and it's awesome and like
things are cool.
But then, oh, the djinn arecoming, I don't know.
So they like the whole townlike gets together.
They have this moat of like tar, so they cover it with dirt, so
(28:06):
it looks like it's solid.
And the djinn come and they looklike something out of like a
medieval Mad Max with these likefull face masks with like bat
wings on them and stuff, andit's badass.
They come on their horses andthey like fall into the tar,
which apparently has some acidic, I don't know.
Anyway, like they're fightingback.
There's fighting back and forthand it's really crazy.
(28:26):
And the portcullis comes downbut like Dar and Seth and Tal
jump on the other side and thenfinally they manage to like
light the moat on fire and it'san explosion and I'm like why
didn't you just use a flamingarrow from inside?
And but the djinn, there's justso many of them that they
manage to sort of overwhelm,because everybody is inside the
(28:47):
gated town except for Seth, dar,tal and, I think, kiri, and so
they're kind of like in thislike kill circle almost, and
then dar calls the eagle, givesthe eagle the pennant that the
bat people gave him and sends itoff, and so things look bad for
(29:08):
our heroes.
But then chekhov's bat peopleshow back up.
Deus ex bat people Like yeah,and they do their thing, and so
the Jun are defeated andeverybody's super happy.
And then, oh, tal took an arrowto the chest.
He's the kid.
And they realize at some pointthey have realized I think Mayak
(29:30):
said it that Dar is the missingbaby.
And so they talk about who willrule.
And Seth is like well, you wereZed's firstborn, you should be
our king.
And he's like no, you guysalready have a great ruler who
had a great teacher.
And so he declines the throneand sort of sets off into the
wilderness.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And the final scene Kiri has followed him and
they're like up on this, likebuttete, like kissing with the
tiger right next to them anarrow, but he was okay, he
survives, he survives yeah, hesurvives and dar leaves him.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
He has this one fancy weapon that he leaves for tal.
And so the final scene isanother helicopter shot that
would be done, done with a dronenow of Kirian Dar kissing on
this butte, I guess in theMojave Desert, I don't know with
the tiger next to them, andthat's the end.
So there's shit that I missedbecause I can't do this very
(30:26):
well, but you got the majorityof the shenanigans.
Yeah, seriously there's, yeah.
So let me start by saying thismovie does not pass the Bechdel
test.
Surprise, surprise.
I don't even think there aretwo named female characters,
unless you count the ferretAlison Bechdel.
(30:50):
Are there at least two namedfemale characters?
Do they talk to one another?
Do they talk to one anotherabout something other than a man
or a boy?
No, is the simple answer.
So got that out of the way.
Let's talk about gender andsexuality.
Like from the get, with thescene, with the witches, like
(31:12):
today, me was like uh, what?
Like I don't.
What messages was I getting asa kid with these sexy, these
women who were very sexy fromthe collarbone down, and like
fear of the danger of women'ssexuality with these witches,
you know similar kind of thatfear of women's sexuality and
(31:57):
the fact that Lucy succumbs tovampirism while Mina does not.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
In Dracula, like that is like recreating this, and a
lot of what you were talkingabout with this reminded me a
little bit of that kind of thing.
And there's a lot ofhomoeroticism in Dracula.
I believe there's suggestionthat Bram Stoker was not
necessarily straight and thenthe like very obvious
homoeroticism of, like MarkSinger and all his, you know,
(32:23):
rock, ho and glory the sexinessand the nudity.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Now, remember it's 1982.
And, like I said, conan justcame out, which again was
tapping into something similarin the zeitgeist.
But I mean, those were the dayswhere even like, like not
bodybuilders were men, straightmen were skies out, thighs out,
you know, like shorts were shortbackground, like it wasn't the
same kind of like covering andmodesty for straight men that we
(32:58):
have today.
And also it's egregious in thismovie, like Singer doesn't wear
a shirt through most of themovie and he doesn't wear
trousers through most of themovie either.
Like there's some shots whereI'm like, damn, that was his
full-on tush.
You know, like wow, wow, I'veseen a lot more Mark Singer than
(33:20):
I expected.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, and that's so.
What's interesting is because,like that, fear of women's
sexuality is something that itis all throughout, so much
literature and culture that wehave we have taken in always,
and culture that we have takenin always, but at the same time,
there's also this likeundercurrent of homoeroticism
that is unexamined Mm-hmm, thatthe fear of women's sexuality is
(33:47):
overt whereas, like thehomoeroticism is covert.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Right.
And that fear is paired withthis control, like the
manipulation that Dar does toKiri, which we're meant to just
accept, like watching it now,I'm like every time she showed
any kind of interest oraffection for him.
I'm like, girl, don't youremember what he did to you?
Because he does it again too.
At a certain point they're on aboat and Tal comes and is like
(34:14):
you're going to help us free myfather right, and Dar says have
your cousin come, ask me mysister just rolled her eyes so
hard.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
listeners, I'm surprised you couldn't hear my
eye roll.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
And so, like there's this fear, like paired with this
control and manipulation thatwe're meant to not just accept,
but sort of root for.
You know, that is just gross,it's just gross, it's just gross
.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Well, it's just gross .
Okay, this is a stretch.
But even within the ferretsit's very clear that women's
sexuality needs to be channeledwithin the normative
relationship of making babies,that it's not okay for women to
just want sex.
(35:05):
It's not okay for women to justwant sex.
It's not okay for women to justenjoy their bodies.
They have to be creating babies, and to the point where, like,
obviously this is a stretch, butthe story of these two ferrets
is okay, because whichever oneis the female, yeah, pobo Koto,
whatever, it's okay that shelost her mate because mate,
(35:27):
because she has babies.
But you know why?
Was it the male one thatattacked riptorn?
You know, like, yeah, so like,this is still like it's.
It's this control, this senseof like sexuality is towards a
specific purpose which, eventhen, is controlled, because
riptorn is trying to take thebabies and kill them.
Yep, like.
(35:48):
And that the fact that the, themisshapen, sexy women are like
the minions of the man who'strying to kill babies, like man.
This is out of out of a uh,like anti-abortionist fever
dream.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it'slike it's, it's like the shit
that you see where they're.
(36:08):
Like feminism has ruined women.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
It's like it's right there yeah, yeah and and like I
think they thought they weregiving us a strong woman with
this, with kiri, you know,because she like takes him down
initially, but I don't knowanyway and she's meant to be
like a warrior of some speciallike we hear some backstory, it
all provides some expositionabout how she was a member of
(36:31):
this warrior group, and so shewears this like very short tunic
with like a leather, likealmost obi belt around it, like
after she's returned to thetemple because it used to be
their headquarters or home orsomething I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
There's like a lot of these little like pieces you
know, you know what that sooften like strong female
characters are like that whereit's like, oh, you can have your
cute little hobby as long asyou know within the the realm of
like serving the male characterwell, I'm not even sure that
the serving is essential, butwhat is essential is like but
(37:06):
you're gonna like it?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
when I come on to you , well, I mean, right, like you
can be strong, you can fight,that's cool.
But when I come on to you,you're saying, yes, maybe not
the first time.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
My high school boyfriend once told me, like
cause, you know, I wanted to bea writer but, you know, also
wanted kids and didn't know howI was going to be able to do
that.
And he's like, oh, you know,you'll just finish up a chapter
while the baby's sleeping.
It's that same shit, it's theexact same shit.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Oh, man, man, All right, so all right, okay.
So I want to let me talkquickly about race.
So this is a very white movie,like there's very little ethnic
diversity, with one majorexception, which is John Amos as
Seth.
And Seth is a major characterand in fact in the credits it's
like and John Amos as Seth, youknow, like he's called out.
(38:00):
He's a big deal and in some ways, for what I just said, it does
a good job because his race isunremarked upon, his skin color
is unremarked upon.
That's just who he is andnobody says anything.
He's cool, he's tough, he's theformer captain of the guard,
now sort of like freelancewanderer, protecting Tal and
(38:24):
raising him effectively tall andraising him effectively.
And the fact that he's Blacklike it's just the same as the
fact that Dar is blonde, it'snot a thing.
On the other hand, like I said,he starts out as this very
strong, wise, like person in hisown right, but then once he and
Dar hook up like notromantically, you know, when
(38:47):
he's sort of arguing with kingzed about what to do like he's
really just like dar's likepitch man, you know, he's just
sort of like no, you need tolisten to him, your highness,
like he's already saved yourlife.
Like he's like he, let's listento him.
Let's listen.
It's not about, like, what seththinks thinks is right.
It's about seth kind ofamplifying well and as.
Dar has to say, as the captainof the guard, he would have like
(39:10):
strategic plans you'd thinkRight, and like I think the
implication was that he agreedwith Dar, but like he doesn't
even sort of say that.
He's just like that guy knowswhat he's talking about and the
fact that it yeah, ooh, likethat feels not great.
You know that they, they, theytook this character made in
black and he's strong andpowerful and his skin color does
(39:32):
not come into play, but he is ablack actor in 1982, america,
you know.
And as soon as the like hero onblue eyed hero, with or without
quotes, you know shows up, nowall of a sudden he's completely
deferring and bowing andscraping and that doesn't feel
good.
So I don't have much more tosay about that, but I just
(39:55):
wanted to name that.
And while we're talking aboutrace and ethnicity, I know this
wasn't on purpose, but I can'thelp notice Rip Torn's wearing a
prosthetic nose and, accordingto the commentary that I saw,
like that was Rip Torn's idea,he wanted to play it like a
turkey vulture, like I'm puttingquotes around that Like
(40:15):
apparently that's what Torn saidto the director.
Like it was from him prostheticnose to have like a beak and
then sacrificing children.
And I can't help.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
And like there's nothing else about it.
That makes it seem like thejewish the hordes are.
What was their name?
Speaker 1 (40:35):
the the jones, yeah, I cannot help but see some
resonance with blood libel.
You know, even the fact that itwas done in sort of a religious
way and I I don't know it.
Just I'm sure it wasn'tintentional, but again, it's one
of those things like thedangerous female sexuality
that's so woven through that Ithink it like giving him a
(40:58):
hooked nose, the childsacrificer, like it came from
somewhere.
You know, like there's a reasonthat that felt right.
I'm putting quotes around thatword and that's a little
uncomfortable, you know.
So, all right, the last thing Iwanted to sort of talk.
Little that's similar is by thebeast master, by andre norton
was, oh, the novel that we, weused to read andre norton, we
(41:35):
did, we did, but, according to,like the commentary that I read,
very little actually carriedover into the movie.
So it was like the inspirationrather than, uh, like an
adaptation source material.
Really, yeah, I think so.
But there's like these reallyinteresting sort of moments,
like, I think, the witches andsome of their powers, and like
the way that they incapacitatethe king and queen in order to
(41:58):
move the baby into the cow'swomb, like that was actually
really clever and interestingand well done storytelling.
I think whatever is going onwith these different gods and
these different like towns, likehe's raised as an Emalite,
emalite, emalite, I don't know,it's sort of like your name.
I think the town is called Emil, like your name, without a Y,
(42:22):
and like at one point he saysthat's who he is and Seth is,
like there aren't any of themleft and he's like that's right,
I'm the only one because.
And like these different towns,each with that has like sort of
a symbol that represents thetown.
Like that's kind of cool, likethat's interesting world
building.
And these bat creatures whoworship an eagle and eat through
(42:42):
or I don't even know if they'reeating, but dissolve creatures
through their wings and have nomouth.
That's a movie in itself.
But in this movie it's a totalscreen time of maybe seven
minutes and like I wonder ifthis would have been like a
(43:03):
stronger storytelling movie ifsomebody had been like you know,
don, let's just do three actsand get rid of the bat thing,
you know?
Yeah, like it's reallyinteresting the way that what
I'm thinking about right now isthe way that we as audiences are
trained to know what to expectand what satisfaction we get
when our expectations are met.
So like it's not actually thatlong a movie.
(43:26):
I think it's like an hour and50 minutes or something.
So it's a normal movie length.
But for the last 20 minutes Iwas like why is this not over
which?
So it's not actually about howlong it was.
Like this is not a Titanicsituation where it's actually
like two, like like actual a lotof time and you have to pee
(43:47):
three times.
It's about the pacing of thestorytelling and about my
expectations.
My expectation was that whenriptorn fell down into the fire
and the ferret died too, thatwas going to be like I was going
to have maybe another sevenminutes left to wrap things up
or epilogue, rather yeah somesort of epilogue, yeah, where
you know dar gets the girl andturns down the throne and then
(44:09):
it's overand instead I had this whole
like after mayax and this hugebattle with the jun and the
return of the bat people andlike those things weren't bad.
But because I wasn't expectingthem, I kind of resented that.
Yeah, yeah, and I think that'sa really interesting like
(44:29):
dynamic that I'm not sure I'maware of.
I know when I'm satisfied by astory, but I'm not sure that I'm
aware of like sort of what itis that this like him choosing
to do five acts instead of threekind of, is like pointing out
to me in this in this moment.
So, but he needed five actsbecause those bat creatures had
(44:51):
to come back, he could haveeasily like well, not easily, I
haven't.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
It's been so long since I've seen it, but it's
been 40 years.
But couldn't he have put thebat creatures like as they were
fighting their way into anyway,who knows?
But or he could have made it atrilogy they don't actually
advance.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, okay, I don't know.
It's interesting.
They're necessary at the end inact five in order to well, and
I be the deuce x batman.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
But I can kind of see where the june being something
that hasn't been tied up,because they are these hordes
that aren't they're still not.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and they're still not tied up.
It is like it's tied up insofaras, like they've been defeated,
but like we never understandwhat their motivation is,
because they're not.
It's.
It's not like they'reconquering and then living on
the land, it's not like they'rejust destroying mayhem, they're
just chaos.
They're reavers and they'rereavers.
(45:47):
They are reavers absolutely,and it's unclear like what
mayax's connection to them is.
It's unclear how, like they saythat mayax controls them and if
we defeat him then they'regoing to come, because they'll
be, but it's the actualmotivation is never explained.
One last thing before I sort ofwrap up the other thing when
I'm talking about resonanceslike the hooked nose, it is odd
(46:09):
to me these priests of R,they're dressed in sort of red
robes with shaved heads and theydefinitely like not resemble
like you would mistake them for,but sort of are resonant with,
like Buddhist monks or priests.
(46:29):
Buddhist monks or priests.
They're not Asian, they're allwhite people but there's
something there that feels alittle bit unpleasant as well,
like, along with the sort ofblood libel that I don't know
what to do with.
I mean, they're just sort ofexotic, I think, and fanatic
Like, I don't know, maybe HarKrishna were informing it, it
was the 80s, yeah and they're.
They're evil and violent.
So I that's certainly not the,at least what was in the
(46:52):
zeitgeist.
I don't think about har krishna, but they also like.
The word fanatic is used, sothere's something worth noting.
So anything you want to saybefore I try and like remind us
of some of the key pieces of thebeast master no, no, I, I think
I might.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I don't want to revisit this movie, but I do
kind of want to go back and lookat screenshots.
Yeah, you totally should.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
You totally should the montage when he's like on
his own before he collects allof his animals and he's just
like waving swords and stufflike like in the desert.
Well, you should watch it.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
All right, I have my marching orders.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
So this film, the Beastmaster which is how HBO got
its name, apparently, hey,Beastmaster's on which came out
in 1982.
I have a feeling we werewatching it on cable in like 83
or 84.
And this film does not pass theBechtel test and in fact like
falls into some pretty grosstropes, including the sort of
dangerous female sexuality withthe grotesque faces and very
(47:59):
sexy bodies of the witches whichyou named, is also quite old
and we saw it in Bram Stoker.
So there's, as you named, overtfear of women's sexuality with
these witches.
And then there's a lot ofcovert homosexuality with the
scantily clad men, not just MarkSinger as star, like John Amos,
(48:19):
we see a lot of his flesh, I'mnot complaining.
So nudity is a thing in thismovie, not just.
And we do get gratuitous boobyshots with Tanya Roberts and her
bathing companions.
Kiri and another slave girl arebathing when we first meet them
and they are topless both ofthem.
So we get a lot of gratuitousnudity.
(48:40):
I saw Mark Singer's whole tush.
I saw Tanya Roberts' whole tush.
I saw Tanya Roberts' boobies,like there's a lot of nudity,
which I guess was what we wereinto in the 80s, you know, skies
out, thighs out.
So let's see, I also named thatthere's some really messed up
romance stuff because we see darmanipulate kiri into believing
(49:01):
that he has saved her and thendemands payment from her in the
form of a kiss which he justforcibly executes Like he just
assaults her effectively, sogross.
And she, you know she fightsback but then succumbs to the
influence, the manipulationbecause eventually she falls in
(49:23):
love with him.
I guess there's some reallygood acting from all of these
actors.
It's just like they reallydeliver those lines.
I mean, like Mark Singer likedoesn't change his tone or
affect throughout.
So that is what it is.
I named that there's someinteresting stuff around race.
(49:44):
So we've got John Amos' Seth asthe only non-white character in
the whole thing and that's notremarked upon, which is kind of
cool.
But at the same time, as soonas Dar Williams, as soon as Dar
shows up, mark Singer's Darshows up and kind of becomes a
comrade of Seth's.
Seth is completely like hedefers to Dar, seth defers to
(50:06):
Dar, which doesn't feel greatsince the only Black character
kind of has his authority, likechooses to subsume his authority
to this blonde-haired,blue-eyed, white dude.
Children has uncomfortableresonance with blood libel and
(50:28):
these priests of R with theirshaven heads and their
fanaticism has uncomfortableresonances with perhaps Hare
Krishna or perhaps Buddhistmonks or priests.
I also named the storytelling inthis like and the expectations
of the viewer and the fact that,like I really expected it to be
(50:48):
over after the third act and sothe fourth and fifth act felt
like ponderously long, eventhough they were quite active,
like that's.
That's what's curious about itis the pacing feels slow.
It wasn't like shit washappening in acts four and five.
I just was like why is this notover yet?
So that was kind of interestingand also like there, like there
were a lot of like good ideasand like interesting moments of
(51:12):
world building that didn't havesufficient space and maybe would
have benefited from being likeone or more of them being
removed so that the ones thatstayed could have like expanded
and had a little bit morebreathing room.
So those were the things that Iremember you also.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
You mentioned that we kind of got a sense of a strong
female character in kiri inthat she's like this awesome
fighter, but it's this like youare a strong female character,
but you're still gonna fall inlove with the man and so, like,
whatever it is that you'restrong at, it has to fit within
the man's narrative.
And then also, like in the sameway that your sexuality has to
(51:56):
be in service of procreation andnot just because you know it's
fun.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Right, and that piece too.
Like as a viewer today I'm likeevery time she showed interest
in him after that first meetingI'm like girl, no, back off.
Don't you remember you could doso much better.
That was certainly not what Iwas thinking in the 80s.
That was certainly not Well, Iactually am glad that I
rewatched it.
It was kind of fun to likeremember and be surprised and
(52:25):
all the things.
And and yeah, mark singerlooked great in 1982.
He really did so.
I mean tanya roberts did too,and seth, I mean john amos.
So you know there's there'sbeautiful people in this movie.
We like beautiful people hereat deep thoughts.
I really do, we really do sowhat's she bringing me?
Speaker 2 (52:42):
I am bringing you my deep thoughts on the Shawshank
Redemption.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Oh wow, it's a little deeper.
That's a very different vibe.
Well, I'll look forward tohearing it then See you, then
this show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
(53:08):
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon there's a link in the
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Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
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Find full music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
(53:28):
Incompetechcom.
Find full music.
Credits in the show notes.
Thank you to ResonateRecordings for editing today's
episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
There's like these really interesting sort of
moments, like interesting worldbuilding, and these bat
creatures who worship an eagleand eat through or I don't even
know if they're eating, butdissolve creatures through their
wings and have no mouth.
And this movie is told in fiveacts, which is unusual for films
(00:21):
.
Like, usually, we only getthree acts and as a result, like
for the last 20 minutes, I'mlike why is this movie not over?
You know, I wonder if thiswould have been like a stronger
storytelling movie if somebodyhad been like you know, don,
let's just do three acts and getrid of the bat thing.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's just
(00:42):
pop culture, what others mightdeem stupid shit?
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
This is Tracy Guy-Decker, andyou're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
(01:04):
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I will besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1982 film the Beastmasterwith my sister, emily Guy-Burken
, and with you.
Let's dive in.
All right, em.
So I know you've seen thisbecause we watched it together
many times, because it was oncable.
(01:25):
In fact, in like researchingthis, I realized that HBO for a
while stood for heyBeastmaster's on.
So I know of He-Man becausemuscles blonde hair Tiger, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
There's a lot of He-Man resonance there.
Yeah, and I, little baby Emily,approved, because I'm nothing
if not consistent.
And the ferrets I remember he,I think he was it two ferrets, I
think it was two ferrets.
Yeah, two ferrets, two ferrets.
And remember he, I think he wasit, two ferrets, I think it was
two ferrets, yeah, two ferrets.
Two ferrets and they were kindof cool and they were the reason
(02:11):
why you were like I would likeferrets.
And then I remember learningthat ferrets often died in like
Lazy Boy Recliners.
That's my recollection of himand so all of that is tied up in
Beastmaster and I kind of havea vague memory of the love
interest, being kind of sassyand that a little that's about
(02:33):
it.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah yeah, this one's like real old and deep.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah.
So, other than like trip downmemory lane, tell me why we're
talking about this today.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I don't even know why I picked it honestly like it.
It was on the list because itwas one of the ones that again
was foundational, like wewatched it lots of times when we
were kids because, hey,beastmasters on on hbo.
But I don't even know why rightnow, I don't, I don't have a
good answer except that it was.
I was like, oh, we haven't donea sword and sorcery in a while,
so sorry, but I am excited totalk about it because in rewatch
(03:07):
I'm realizing there were, wellfor one, mark Singer who played
Dar the beast master was like.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I kind of remember his voice too, like there was
something yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
He was ripped.
Oh boy, like before, ripped wascool and there was a little bit
of a sexual awakening forelementary school Tracy, I think
, and probably lots of otherpeople.
I'll get into that a little bit.
So on rewatch, that's there Iwant to talk about in this movie
, like gender and sexuality andnudity actually, because like
(03:41):
there's a lot of nudity, but notjust the women.
Like after about I don't know,maybe 20 or 30 minutes, like
Mark Singer doesn't wear a shirtfor the whole rest of the movie
, you know, and he's not reallywearing pants either, he's
wearing like a loincloth andlike a belt with like leather
fringe kind of a thing.
So that's part of why hereminds you of.
(04:01):
He-Man Totally.
So it's not like one of thoselike sword and sorcery where the
men are in full armor and thewomen are in rags.
It's not that.
I kind of want to talk aboutthat a little bit.
There's also Rip Torn is thebad guy, so like a young Rip
Torn in a prosthetic nose, whichis bizarre, and that's kind of
weird seeing him as a young man,because my head he is Zed from
(04:24):
Men in Black and like that's it.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, like I feel like he sprang fully formed as a
50 year old yeah, no, he didn't, he didn't, and this movie is
proof so.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So I wanted that was an interesting thing to note.
But Rip Torn's character, mayax, has these three witches who I
don don't know are hiscompanions, servants.
I don't really understand.
And there's something, reallythere's some tension there about
women's sexuality and thedanger of women's sexuality
specifically in these witchesthat I want to get into.
(04:55):
I want to talk about romanceand what messages baby Tracy and
baby Emily were getting aboutromance from this movie, because
it was fucked up, like reallyReally fucked up.
I want to talk about race.
In this movie there's not a lot, but John Amos plays a very key
character, seth, and his raceis not remarked upon at all,
(05:17):
which is sort of interesting.
And then I want to talk aboutstorytelling.
This movie is told in five acts, which is unusual for films.
Like usually we only get threeacts and, as a result, like for
the last 20 minutes, I'm likewhy is this movie not over?
You know, and also part of thereason it wasn't over was
because I think the director,don Coscarelli, like he had a
lot of really good ideas and hewanted to use all of them and he
(05:39):
needed five acts to like comeall the way back to it, or else
there would have been aChekhov's bat creature, so
Chekhov's ferret, yeah, kind ofKind of.
So I want to like talk aboutlike all of the good ideas and
like maybe Coscarelli could havestood to have like an Ezra
(06:00):
Pound of sorts who was like goodidea, save it for the next
movie or something I don't know.
This movie came like like rightafter Conan the Barbarian.
A lot of people talk about itas a ripoff.
It was not in fact a ripoff,because it was released like
three months later, so the moviemakers were making them
simultaneously.
Rather, I think there wassomething in the zeitgeist that
was like into like rippedshirtless dudes and swords and
(06:24):
sorcery.
So, anyway, that's enoughpreface.
I'm gonna give you the storywhile I've act, I will do my
best.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I do want to mention I I texted you earlier this week
where I was saying like Irealized how often, when we do
the trying to be concise ingiving the synopsis, we'll say,
say, shenanigans ensue.
I was like, yeah, there's someshenanigans, there will be some.
So you can, you know, just cutto the chase with shenanigans
ensue, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
So let's talk about the shenanigans in this movie.
So we open with these threewitches and they're looking in a
cauldron and I'm just going toset that scene.
I won't give as much detail forthe whole thing, but like from
behind these three witches andthey're looking in a cauldron
and I'm just going to set thatscene I won't give as much
detail for the whole thing, butlike from behind these three
women, like looking down into acauldron and they're dressed
very scantily and they aremodels like the actresses, are
(07:15):
very well built and they're sortof undulating in very sexy ways
, like it's hot.
And then you get up close andyou see their faces and they're
totally deformed, like like half.
They're these weird like masksand like their eyes are weird
and they don't have proper hairand they're asymmetrical and
just really grotesque.
And so I just want to name thatup front.
(07:36):
That's like how we enter.
So these three witches aretalking to Maax Riptorn in his
prosthetic nose.
Witches are talking to MayaxRiptorn in his prosthetic nose
and we learn that there is aprophecy that the unborn son of
King Zed that's a weirdcoincidence the unborn son of
King Zed is going to kill Mayaxand Mayax is like no, he won't,
(08:01):
because I'm going to kill himfirst, right?
So you know.
That's how all these thingsstart.
So King Zed comes in and says Iunderstand, you're going to do
a child sacrifice.
We don't do that in this, inthis kingdom.
You're banished and Mayax, likeever the diplomat, is like oh
damn straight, I'm going to killhim and it's going to be your
unborn son that I kill.
So then this really weird thing, like Mayax proves his like
(08:24):
power and psychological power bylike informing, like just with
a head nod, the two priests I'mputting quotes around that, but
the two priests of Ar A-R that'sthe name of the god that he
serves, with a head nod fromMayax like hang themselves with
these devices that they have.
It's bizarre.
And our parents, let us watchthis Seriously, it's bizarre,
anyway.
And our parents, let us watchthis Seriously, it's bizarre.
(08:47):
So Zed's like taken away, likebanished Maax.
Cut to the next scene.
Zed and his queen are in bedtogether and the witches come
and magically like paralyze thetwo people, the queen and the
king.
The queen is pregnant and thenmagically move the baby from her
(09:09):
, from the woman's womb, to thatof a cow that the witch has
brought with her.
And it's kind of interestinglike there's no exposition, but
you know exactly what'shappening.
He did a great job actually ofconveying what was happening.
So the witch takes the cow themother does not survive this
transfer, by the way so thewitch takes the cow off, you
(09:31):
know, into the countryside, cutsthe baby out of its womb and is
going to the baby needs to bebranded and then sacrificed to
the god Ar.
So we're watching from behindand she brands the palm of the
child and the child cries.
And then this farmer who's like, sees it happening and hears
the baby cry, realizes somethingbad is happening and so he
(09:54):
actually, like, kills the witchand saves the baby and then
takes him home and raises him ashis own.
So we have some like cut scenesto see the baby Dar is his name
growing up and we learn that hehas this power, this telepathic
connection with animals becauseof the cow.
Maybe they never explain it,but I mean, that's certainly the
(10:15):
takeaway I had was that becausehe hitched a ride in a cow's
womb for a while, he has atelepathic connection with
animals, but they never sayexplicitly why so, and his
adoptive father tells him he hasto keep that a secret.
No one should know about hisabilities.
So fast forward.
Again.
Now we meet Dar as Mark Singer.
He's just this happy-go-luckysubsistence farmer with his
(10:40):
family in his village whoinexplicably have their houses
like up on tall stilts, eventhough they're not near water or
anything, I don't know.
Anyway, he's out like hoeingrocks with the other dudes and
that is not a euphemism.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
They're literally like hoeing rocks.
That's just what they'retelling their parents they're
doing.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
With the other like young men of the village.
When the dog, his dog, totoT-O-D-O I was watching with the
subtitles like starts to freakout.
I was like what's going on?
And it's the Jun, which is likethe horde, like the barbarians,
and they're heading toward thevillage and so all of the rock
hoers are like running back tothe village where Dar's adopted
(11:34):
dad like stands to defend thevillage from this, these
barbarians, and dies instantlyLike they kill him almost
immediately.
Everyone dies in the villageand dar is like knocked out and
the dog who has taken an arrowin the shoulder like drags his
unconscious body like away fromthe fray.
So dar survives, the dogdoesn't.
(11:55):
No one in the village survives.
And when dar wakes up, like thewhole village is just
devastated and like likeegregious, not just like bodies
everywhere, but like on pikesand stuff.
It's really, it's reallyunpleasant, like I can't believe
we were kids watching this.
They didn't know, they didn'tknow.
So he sets the village in thissymbol which is like like the do
(12:17):
not enter sign, like a circlewith a line through it, which I
see in commentary was meant tobe the symbol of his village.
It wasn't made particularlyclear.
Anyway, he sets them all inthis huge circle with the line
and then sets them on fire, butlike that's the funeral rite,
like the whole village,including the dog who he rests
(12:38):
in his father's arms.
Very poignant, very poignant.
And then we have like a goodlike I don't know 15 minutes of
him just like waving swords andsticks around and like running
through the desert and like justlooking really hot and sweaty,
like and hot in both senses ofthe word I want to say and like
(12:59):
waving swords around and likeyeah, no, no, he is not Ho and
Rox, no, no.
So and in that like montage oflike Mark Singer looking hot, we
also see him sort oftelepathically connect with this
eagle and he actually can seethrough its eyes.
(13:20):
So that's kind of cool and weactually we see him through its
eyes, which today they do with adrone, but I think they must
have been using a helicopter in1982, which is really kind of
impressive.
And then he is like bathing orsomething, and these two little
ferrets come and steal hisclothes.
I remember that, and so he,like, chased the ferrets were
(13:41):
awesome so he chases the ferretsto get his clothes back and
like and lands in quicksand andthe ferrets save him.
But then one of them falls inso he saves it and then he names
them their Kodo and Podo.
So we had the dog Toto, whodied.
Now we have the ferrets Kodoand Podo.
The eagle doesn't have a name.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So Dar has has a real great imagination, kodo and
Poto the eagle doesn't have aname.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So Dar has a real great imagination.
Well, so we keep going.
He's still just sort oftraveling, and then he senses
you know, his spidey sensestingle and he comes upon this.
I think it's meant to be like aleopard.
It's actually a tiger that'sbeen dyed black, that is like
chained up and these men kind oflike I don't know trying to
kill it or torture it or I don'tknow what they're doing to it.
(14:28):
But he decides he's gonna savethe tiger, the cat and the
ferrets are gonna help him.
So he manages to chase off andor kill like three or four dudes
who were harassing this cat,this big cat, and so now he's
got a giant tiger thing, that ishis companion, who he names Roo
(14:48):
, which the subtitles spelledR-U-H, but I think it's meant to
be sort of like the sound, likethe, you know kind of a sound
that the tiger makes.
I don't know for sure, anyway,and he has this like very cheesy
line like I have my eyes, Ihave my thieves and now I have
my strength, or something likethat.
I don't know if the thieves iswhat he calls the ferrets but
(15:13):
it's something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's really ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
All right, Great line delivery there.
Mark Singer yeah, he is areally good actor and I was
clearly watching, just like dadused to read Playboy for the
articles Singer was hired forthat just peccable line delivery
yeah.
So, oh man, so he meets.
I'm going to get this out oforder, it totally doesn't matter
(15:35):
.
He says he's going to Aruk,which is the kingdom where he
was born, though he doesn't knowit Because somehow Mayak's the
bad guy.
The Rip Torn character is likeaffiliated, aligned with the
Juns, the barbarians.
It's very unclear how, likemaybe it's like a Herod sort of
thing where he's just killingeveryone, like it's just it's
(15:57):
unclear, because he knows, maaxknows that the baby lived Anyway
.
So he says he's going to try andfind these priests of R and
then he ends up in this weirdlike he follows these like
lights that are in these treesand he ends up then there's like
a person like strung up in acage.
He lets the guy out of the cageand the guy is immediately like
(16:20):
enveloped in this creaturethat's like a man with no mouth
and like bat wings, and and heenvelops him in the bat wings
and somehow like digests him,leaving only bones.
And there's a ton of these guys, like like 20 of them, like dar
is not gonna survive this, butjust then his eagle comes in and
lands on his arm.
(16:40):
Like the eagle comes and likeit's like hey, dude, what's up?
And lands on his arm and turnsout the bat wings like worship a
god.
That's like an eagle god, whichthey make plain when the eagle
lands on the god idol.
And so the bat dudes are likeoh you're cool, except they
don't speak because they don'thave mouths.
The way they say oh you're coolis that they put this like
(17:00):
necklace, with a pendant that'san eagle shape, like on his
sword, and then he escapes.
Remember the Batdudes and thefact that they like eagles.
Because, it's Chekhov's Batdude.
It's Chekhov's bat dude.
Okay, so then he meets Seth andTal.
So there's a priest of Arr whothey know the unborn kid is now
(17:21):
an adult and he's out there andhe's coming for Maax.
And so they found him.
And the priest is like there'sa ring with an eye in it which I
remembered.
I don't know if you rememberthat thing, but there's a ring
with an eye in it that allowsMaax to see what's happening at
a distance.
And so this priest of Arr liketries to kill Dar and Dar
(17:41):
manages to like chase him off orwhatever there are two of them
and the other one like somehowends up being chased by Rue, the
cat.
And the cat falls into a trap,like a pit that's been dug and
covered over, and the priest isgoing to kill the cat.
And the cat falls into a trap,like a pit that's been dug and
covered over, and the priest isgonna kill the cat.
But seth and tal, john amos anda young man called joshua
(18:04):
milrad, who was like maybe 13 atthe time they interrupt this
cat killing and actually thepriest ends up in the pit with
rue, who dispatches him.
So then dar like rushes up totry and help his cat friend and
finds Seth and Tal and there'slike this little bit of a
standoff.
(18:24):
But then Dar looks in the pit,realizes what happened and says
I'm indebted to you.
And then the three of them helpRue get out of the pit and they
decide to travel together.
We eventually learn that Seth,john Amos, is the former captain
of the guard for King Zed andis now protecting Zed's son, tal
, the prince, who presumably isa half-brother of Dar and oh, I
(18:49):
totally skipped a part so he's ahalf-brother of Dar, which we
don't know yet.
We also learn that a so-calledslave girl that Dar has met is
Tal's cousin.
So I skipped that part, butit's very important.
So I'm going to tell you.
Now.
Dar comes upon two women bathingin a pool with a waterfall, and
it's totally gratuitous boobies, you know from both of these
(19:10):
women.
Tanya Roberts is the actresswho plays the love interest Kiri
.
Dar sends the ferrets to gosteal her clothes the way that
they stole his.
So she comes out and she startschasing them and she like she
had this weird like she coversher breasts is what I'm trying
to say and so she's chasing theferrets to try and get her
clothes back.
And then she comes upon Rue theblack tiger, who's like,
(19:32):
threatening her Dar, comes inand is like, stand back.
And like you have to show himwho's boss.
And like saves her, puttingquotes around that from the
fierce beast of the tiger, andthen says you owe me your life,
but I'll take this as paymentinstead, and forcibly kisses her
and I'm watching going, oh no,like a salt monster.
(19:56):
That's why we choose the tiger,totally right.
So well, kiri's like a badassand she like I mean she like
flips him and like has her handon his throat.
It's like who are you?
You know, and he says his nameand whatever.
And then it somehow becomesclear she's a slave.
(20:18):
She's got these like welts onher back from having been
whipped and he's like you needto fight back, you know.
She's like you don't explainmuch.
What choice do I have?
You know?
So she's.
So we learned she's a slave tothe priests of Arr and somehow
she drops this necklace, whichis like a bunch of medallions
all strung together.
So now back to where I was inthe story.
(20:40):
He's with Tal and Seth andtalking about like he's also
going to Aruk because he wantsto fight Maax, because Maax
somehow controls the people whokilled his family, and so they
decide to travel together andthey talk about the ferrets,
because everybody loves theferrets, and he has this like
sack of stuff that the ferretshave stolen and he dumps it out
(21:03):
and includes, like the ring thatactually has an eye in it.
The eyelid lifts up and Talputs the ring on and includes
the necklace with the medallionsthat had come from Kiri and
Seth freaks out.
He's like where did you getthis, dar's?
Like it was from a slave girl.
And they're like she is noslave girl, and it turns out
she's Tal's cousin, which I'mpretty sure biologically makes
(21:25):
her also Dar's cousin, sincethey're brothers, unless maybe
the second wife's, but I don'tknow but anyway, that is they
never talk about.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Well within, you know royalty norms I suppose.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
So shenanigans ensue.
The three guys like they traveltogether.
They end up back at aruk.
There's a child sacrificehappening, which dar interrupts
by sending the eagle to gosnatch the child out of like.
They drop the child down intolike.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
There's a giant pyramid with the flames at the
bottom and they drop the kiddown as in like baby, uh-uh,
like six or seven year old eagleis big enough to carry off a
six or seven year old.
So this eagle is big enough tocarry off a six or seven year
old.
That was exactly my thought asit happened.
Because I'm just like that's astrong ass eagle, or that is a
malnourished kid?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
No, it was a strong ass eagle so, which backfires a
little bit, because apparentlyan eagle is one of the
manifestations of the god Arr.
And so Maax is like see, arrwill not be satisfied until you,
you know, give him all yourchildren or whatever.
But that means Dar makes afriend because he returns the
child to her father, now thefather Sacco, who has a cart and
(22:45):
horses, which is very helpfullater.
So it's Chekhov's cart andhorses, yeah, yeah, totally.
So they continue traveling.
They gotta save kiri.
She's gonna be sacrificed.
We don't know why, but she andlike five other slave girls are
being sacrificed.
We don't know why, but they'rebeing, they're being taken like
from some place, not the pyramid, like to some place that is the
(23:10):
pyramid.
Anyway, dar and seth and talinterrupt that travel.
They kill the priest, they savethe girls, all of whom
disappear somehow, except forKiri, and they decide they're
going to go save King Zed, whois still alive.
So they get into the pyramid.
We meet death guards who thepriests somehow like cause like
(23:33):
brain damage by sticking likeglow-in-the-dark blue goo in
their ears and they have likebig, like spiky armor on their
arms and their legs but no otherclothes at all except for like
a jockstrap, slash loincloth andthey find King Zed.
His eyes have been put out andthey're like escaping with him,
but the ferrets have gone off onan errand and and so they get
(23:56):
to this room, which you know isevil, because there's this giant
skull that, like, blocks theentryway.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
It goes up and down on pulley system and that is
what I want for my garagetotally totally, they have to go
.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
They have to go.
Dar says I can't leave withoutmy little ones, meaning the
ferrets, and so everybody goes.
But he waits behind and thedeath guard is coming chasing
the ferrets and a bunch ofpriests, and then it's like very
tense.
And then Kiri comes back andthey managed to escape out the
side like with ropes, and it'sso exciting out the side like
(24:38):
with ropes, and it's so exciting.
Okay.
So now they're off in a camp.
Seth has been on his own liketrying to gather an army of
rebels.
They have about 35 people.
That's not an army.
So zed the king is like we haveenough people because we have
heart and we're gonna take mykingdom back.
And dar's like maybe we shouldlike strategize a little bit.
(24:59):
And seth, who was like a reallystrong and smart dude, suddenly
is like just listen to thebeast master.
He knows what's happening.
And so seth says you know,trust the beast master, he's
already saved your life.
Zed says no, he's a freak heactually says freak who talks to
the animals, he's not welcomein my kingdom and like banishes
(25:20):
him.
So he looks really hurt andlike runs away.
And when we cut to his faceagain, there's like like tear
trails down Mark Singer's faceNative American commercial PSA.
Kinda.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
But both eyes.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah.
And so he's there with his youknow, with his animals, and and
Kiri comes to talk to him andshe's like I'm so sorry.
And he's like come with me.
And she says I can't, I have aduty.
So they like kiss and he goesaway, and or she goes away,
rather I don't remember what itis that makes him go back, but
(25:57):
he does.
Oh, seth like ends up seeing theeye and realizes that mayax
knows all of their plans,because that has just been
saying how, like where they're,they're gonna attack the north
wall and what they're gonna do.
And seth sees the eye and stabsit.
And then the witch is like oh,because it was her eye.
I remember that very clearlyfrom when we were kids.
And seth is like your highness,we can't.
(26:20):
He knows we can't do this.
And zed's like no, that's whatwe're doing.
And seth goes we are all doomed, and so we skip that.
We don't see it happen at all.
We just the next scene, likemayax has them all captive and
dar comes to get them I don'teven remember why, like who
calls him back or whatever.
(26:40):
But so he goes and like fightseverybody off and they're like
kind of I mean seth and kiri dohelp and then, like, once the
people of Uruk see that likeMaax maybe is going to be
overthrown, they actually doalso fight.
Maax kills Zed and then Darlike mortally wounds him, but
(27:03):
he's not dead.
And so Dar like saves Kiri andthey're like has his back to
Maax and Maax is like gonna gethim.
And one of the ferrets likejumps on Maax and like has his
back to Max and Max is likegonna get him and one of the
ferrets like jumps on Max andlike attacks him and they both
Max and the ferret, fall intothe fire and the ferret's gone
(27:24):
and it's very, very sad and itshould have been over.
But it wasn't over Because thatwas only the end of the third
act.
Yeah, so in the next scene or alater scene, we see the
surviving ferret like poke herhead up out of the little pouch
that she lives in by his belt,and then two little baby ferrets
(27:45):
poke their heads up too.
So she was pregnant when herpartner died.
So they're like just living ina rook and it's awesome and like
things are cool.
But then, oh, the djinn arecoming, I don't know.
So they like the whole townlike gets together.
They have this moat of like tar, so they cover it with dirt, so
(28:06):
it looks like it's solid.
And the djinn come and they looklike something out of like a
medieval Mad Max with these likefull face masks with like bat
wings on them and stuff, andit's badass.
They come on their horses andthey like fall into the tar,
which apparently has some acidic, I don't know.
Anyway, like they're fightingback.
There's fighting back and forthand it's really crazy.
(28:26):
And the portcullis comes downbut like Dar and Seth and Tal
jump on the other side and thenfinally they manage to like
light the moat on fire and it'san explosion and I'm like why
didn't you just use a flamingarrow from inside?
And but the djinn, there's justso many of them that they
manage to sort of overwhelm,because everybody is inside the
(28:47):
gated town except for Seth, dar,tal and, I think, kiri, and so
they're kind of like in thislike kill circle almost, and
then dar calls the eagle, givesthe eagle the pennant that the
bat people gave him and sends itoff, and so things look bad for
(29:08):
our heroes.
But then chekhov's bat peopleshow back up.
Deus ex bat people Like yeah,and they do their thing, and so
the Jun are defeated andeverybody's super happy.
And then, oh, tal took an arrowto the chest.
He's the kid.
And they realize at some pointthey have realized I think Mayak
(29:30):
said it that Dar is the missingbaby.
And so they talk about who willrule.
And Seth is like well, you wereZed's firstborn, you should be
our king.
And he's like no, you guysalready have a great ruler who
had a great teacher.
And so he declines the throneand sort of sets off into the
wilderness.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And the final scene Kiri has followed him and
they're like up on this, likebuttete, like kissing with the
tiger right next to them anarrow, but he was okay, he
survives, he survives yeah, hesurvives and dar leaves him.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
He has this one fancy weapon that he leaves for tal.
And so the final scene isanother helicopter shot that
would be done, done with a dronenow of Kirian Dar kissing on
this butte, I guess in theMojave Desert, I don't know with
the tiger next to them, andthat's the end.
So there's shit that I missedbecause I can't do this very
(30:26):
well, but you got the majorityof the shenanigans.
Yeah, seriously there's, yeah.
So let me start by saying thismovie does not pass the Bechdel
test.
Surprise, surprise.
I don't even think there aretwo named female characters,
unless you count the ferretAlison Bechdel.
(30:50):
Are there at least two namedfemale characters?
Do they talk to one another?
Do they talk to one anotherabout something other than a man
or a boy?
No, is the simple answer.
So got that out of the way.
Let's talk about gender andsexuality.
Like from the get, with thescene, with the witches, like
(31:12):
today, me was like uh, what?
Like I don't.
What messages was I getting asa kid with these sexy, these
women who were very sexy fromthe collarbone down, and like
fear of the danger of women'ssexuality with these witches,
you know similar kind of thatfear of women's sexuality and
(31:57):
the fact that Lucy succumbs tovampirism while Mina does not.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
In Dracula, like that is like recreating this, and a
lot of what you were talkingabout with this reminded me a
little bit of that kind of thing.
And there's a lot ofhomoeroticism in Dracula.
I believe there's suggestionthat Bram Stoker was not
necessarily straight and thenthe like very obvious
homoeroticism of, like MarkSinger and all his, you know,
(32:23):
rock, ho and glory the sexinessand the nudity.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Now, remember it's 1982.
And, like I said, conan justcame out, which again was
tapping into something similarin the zeitgeist.
But I mean, those were the dayswhere even like, like not
bodybuilders were men, straightmen were skies out, thighs out,
you know, like shorts were shortbackground, like it wasn't the
same kind of like covering andmodesty for straight men that we
(32:58):
have today.
And also it's egregious in thismovie, like Singer doesn't wear
a shirt through most of themovie and he doesn't wear
trousers through most of themovie either.
Like there's some shots whereI'm like, damn, that was his
full-on tush.
You know, like wow, wow, I'veseen a lot more Mark Singer than
(33:20):
I expected.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, and that's so.
What's interesting is because,like that, fear of women's
sexuality is something that itis all throughout, so much
literature and culture that wehave we have taken in always,
and culture that we have takenin always, but at the same time,
there's also this likeundercurrent of homoeroticism
that is unexamined Mm-hmm, thatthe fear of women's sexuality is
(33:47):
overt whereas, like thehomoeroticism is covert.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Right.
And that fear is paired withthis control, like the
manipulation that Dar does toKiri, which we're meant to just
accept, like watching it now,I'm like every time she showed
any kind of interest oraffection for him.
I'm like, girl, don't youremember what he did to you?
Because he does it again too.
At a certain point they're on aboat and Tal comes and is like
(34:14):
you're going to help us free myfather right, and Dar says have
your cousin come, ask me mysister just rolled her eyes so
hard.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
listeners, I'm surprised you couldn't hear my
eye roll.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
And so, like there's this fear, like paired with this
control and manipulation thatwe're meant to not just accept,
but sort of root for.
You know, that is just gross,it's just gross, it's just gross
.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Well, it's just gross .
Okay, this is a stretch.
But even within the ferretsit's very clear that women's
sexuality needs to be channeledwithin the normative
relationship of making babies,that it's not okay for women to
just want sex.
(35:05):
It's not okay for women to justwant sex.
It's not okay for women to justenjoy their bodies.
They have to be creating babies, and to the point where, like,
obviously this is a stretch, butthe story of these two ferrets
is okay, because whichever oneis the female, yeah, pobo Koto,
whatever, it's okay that shelost her mate because mate,
(35:27):
because she has babies.
But you know why?
Was it the male one thatattacked riptorn?
You know, like, yeah, so like,this is still like it's.
It's this control, this senseof like sexuality is towards a
specific purpose which, eventhen, is controlled, because
riptorn is trying to take thebabies and kill them.
Yep, like.
(35:48):
And that the fact that the, themisshapen, sexy women are like
the minions of the man who'strying to kill babies, like man.
This is out of out of a uh,like anti-abortionist fever
dream.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it'slike it's, it's like the shit
that you see where they're.
(36:08):
Like feminism has ruined women.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
It's like it's right there yeah, yeah and and like I
think they thought they weregiving us a strong woman with
this, with kiri, you know,because she like takes him down
initially, but I don't knowanyway and she's meant to be
like a warrior of some speciallike we hear some backstory, it
all provides some expositionabout how she was a member of
(36:31):
this warrior group, and so shewears this like very short tunic
with like a leather, likealmost obi belt around it, like
after she's returned to thetemple because it used to be
their headquarters or home orsomething I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
There's like a lot of these little like pieces you
know, you know what that sooften like strong female
characters are like that whereit's like, oh, you can have your
cute little hobby as long asyou know within the the realm of
like serving the male characterwell, I'm not even sure that
the serving is essential, butwhat is essential is like but
(37:06):
you're gonna like it?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
when I come on to you , well, I mean, right, like you
can be strong, you can fight,that's cool.
But when I come on to you,you're saying, yes, maybe not
the first time.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
My high school boyfriend once told me, like
cause, you know, I wanted to bea writer but, you know, also
wanted kids and didn't know howI was going to be able to do
that.
And he's like, oh, you know,you'll just finish up a chapter
while the baby's sleeping.
It's that same shit, it's theexact same shit.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Oh, man, man, All right, so all right, okay.
So I want to let me talkquickly about race.
So this is a very white movie,like there's very little ethnic
diversity, with one majorexception, which is John Amos as
Seth.
And Seth is a major characterand in fact in the credits it's
like and John Amos as Seth, youknow, like he's called out.
(38:00):
He's a big deal and in some ways, for what I just said, it does
a good job because his race isunremarked upon, his skin color
is unremarked upon.
That's just who he is andnobody says anything.
He's cool, he's tough, he's theformer captain of the guard,
now sort of like freelancewanderer, protecting Tal and
(38:24):
raising him effectively tall andraising him effectively.
And the fact that he's Blacklike it's just the same as the
fact that Dar is blonde, it'snot a thing.
On the other hand, like I said,he starts out as this very
strong, wise, like person in hisown right, but then once he and
Dar hook up like notromantically, you know, when
(38:47):
he's sort of arguing with kingzed about what to do like he's
really just like dar's likepitch man, you know, he's just
sort of like no, you need tolisten to him, your highness,
like he's already saved yourlife.
Like he's like he, let's listento him.
Let's listen.
It's not about, like, what seththinks thinks is right.
It's about seth kind ofamplifying well and as.
Dar has to say, as the captainof the guard, he would have like
(39:10):
strategic plans you'd thinkRight, and like I think the
implication was that he agreedwith Dar, but like he doesn't
even sort of say that.
He's just like that guy knowswhat he's talking about and the
fact that it yeah, ooh, likethat feels not great.
You know that they, they, theytook this character made in
black and he's strong andpowerful and his skin color does
(39:32):
not come into play, but he is ablack actor in 1982, america,
you know.
And as soon as the like hero onblue eyed hero, with or without
quotes, you know shows up, nowall of a sudden he's completely
deferring and bowing andscraping and that doesn't feel
good.
So I don't have much more tosay about that, but I just
(39:55):
wanted to name that.
And while we're talking aboutrace and ethnicity, I know this
wasn't on purpose, but I can'thelp notice Rip Torn's wearing a
prosthetic nose and, accordingto the commentary that I saw,
like that was Rip Torn's idea,he wanted to play it like a
turkey vulture, like I'm puttingquotes around that Like
(40:15):
apparently that's what Torn saidto the director.
Like it was from him prostheticnose to have like a beak and
then sacrificing children.
And I can't help.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
And like there's nothing else about it.
That makes it seem like thejewish the hordes are.
What was their name?
Speaker 1 (40:35):
the the jones, yeah, I cannot help but see some
resonance with blood libel.
You know, even the fact that itwas done in sort of a religious
way and I I don't know it.
Just I'm sure it wasn'tintentional, but again, it's one
of those things like thedangerous female sexuality
that's so woven through that Ithink it like giving him a
(40:58):
hooked nose, the childsacrificer, like it came from
somewhere.
You know, like there's a reasonthat that felt right.
I'm putting quotes around thatword and that's a little
uncomfortable, you know.
So, all right, the last thing Iwanted to sort of talk.
Little that's similar is by thebeast master, by andre norton
was, oh, the novel that we, weused to read andre norton, we
(41:35):
did, we did, but, according to,like the commentary that I read,
very little actually carriedover into the movie.
So it was like the inspirationrather than, uh, like an
adaptation source material.
Really, yeah, I think so.
But there's like these reallyinteresting sort of moments,
like, I think, the witches andsome of their powers, and like
the way that they incapacitatethe king and queen in order to
(41:58):
move the baby into the cow'swomb, like that was actually
really clever and interestingand well done storytelling.
I think whatever is going onwith these different gods and
these different like towns, likehe's raised as an Emalite,
emalite, emalite, I don't know,it's sort of like your name.
I think the town is called Emil, like your name, without a Y,
(42:22):
and like at one point he saysthat's who he is and Seth is,
like there aren't any of themleft and he's like that's right,
I'm the only one because.
And like these different towns,each with that has like sort of
a symbol that represents thetown.
Like that's kind of cool, likethat's interesting world
building.
And these bat creatures whoworship an eagle and eat through
(42:42):
or I don't even know if they'reeating, but dissolve creatures
through their wings and have nomouth.
That's a movie in itself.
But in this movie it's a totalscreen time of maybe seven
minutes and like I wonder ifthis would have been like a
(43:03):
stronger storytelling movie ifsomebody had been like you know,
don, let's just do three actsand get rid of the bat thing,
you know?
Yeah, like it's reallyinteresting the way that what
I'm thinking about right now isthe way that we as audiences are
trained to know what to expectand what satisfaction we get
when our expectations are met.
So like it's not actually thatlong a movie.
(43:26):
I think it's like an hour and50 minutes or something.
So it's a normal movie length.
But for the last 20 minutes Iwas like why is this not over
which?
So it's not actually about howlong it was.
Like this is not a Titanicsituation where it's actually
like two, like like actual a lotof time and you have to pee
(43:47):
three times.
It's about the pacing of thestorytelling and about my
expectations.
My expectation was that whenriptorn fell down into the fire
and the ferret died too, thatwas going to be like I was going
to have maybe another sevenminutes left to wrap things up
or epilogue, rather yeah somesort of epilogue, yeah, where
you know dar gets the girl andturns down the throne and then
(44:09):
it's overand instead I had this whole
like after mayax and this hugebattle with the jun and the
return of the bat people andlike those things weren't bad.
But because I wasn't expectingthem, I kind of resented that.
Yeah, yeah, and I think that'sa really interesting like
(44:29):
dynamic that I'm not sure I'maware of.
I know when I'm satisfied by astory, but I'm not sure that I'm
aware of like sort of what itis that this like him choosing
to do five acts instead of threekind of, is like pointing out
to me in this in this moment.
So, but he needed five actsbecause those bat creatures had
(44:51):
to come back, he could haveeasily like well, not easily, I
haven't.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
It's been so long since I've seen it, but it's
been 40 years.
But couldn't he have put thebat creatures like as they were
fighting their way into anyway,who knows?
But or he could have made it atrilogy they don't actually
advance.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, okay, I don't know.
It's interesting.
They're necessary at the end inact five in order to well, and
I be the deuce x batman.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
But I can kind of see where the june being something
that hasn't been tied up,because they are these hordes
that aren't they're still not.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and they're still not tied up.
It is like it's tied up insofaras, like they've been defeated,
but like we never understandwhat their motivation is,
because they're not.
It's.
It's not like they'reconquering and then living on
the land, it's not like they'rejust destroying mayhem, they're
just chaos.
They're reavers and they'rereavers.
(45:47):
They are reavers absolutely,and it's unclear like what
mayax's connection to them is.
It's unclear how, like they saythat mayax controls them and if
we defeat him then they'regoing to come, because they'll
be, but it's the actualmotivation is never explained.
One last thing before I sort ofwrap up the other thing when
I'm talking about resonanceslike the hooked nose, it is odd
(46:09):
to me these priests of R,they're dressed in sort of red
robes with shaved heads and theydefinitely like not resemble
like you would mistake them for,but sort of are resonant with,
like Buddhist monks or priests.
(46:29):
Buddhist monks or priests.
They're not Asian, they're allwhite people but there's
something there that feels alittle bit unpleasant as well,
like, along with the sort ofblood libel that I don't know
what to do with.
I mean, they're just sort ofexotic, I think, and fanatic
Like, I don't know, maybe HarKrishna were informing it, it
was the 80s, yeah and they're.
They're evil and violent.
So I that's certainly not the,at least what was in the
(46:52):
zeitgeist.
I don't think about har krishna, but they also like.
The word fanatic is used, sothere's something worth noting.
So anything you want to saybefore I try and like remind us
of some of the key pieces of thebeast master no, no, I, I think
I might.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I don't want to revisit this movie, but I do
kind of want to go back and lookat screenshots.
Yeah, you totally should.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
You totally should the montage when he's like on
his own before he collects allof his animals and he's just
like waving swords and stufflike like in the desert.
Well, you should watch it.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
All right, I have my marching orders.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
So this film, the Beastmaster which is how HBO got
its name, apparently, hey,Beastmaster's on which came out
in 1982.
I have a feeling we werewatching it on cable in like 83
or 84.
And this film does not pass theBechtel test and in fact like
falls into some pretty grosstropes, including the sort of
dangerous female sexuality withthe grotesque faces and very
(47:59):
sexy bodies of the witches whichyou named, is also quite old
and we saw it in Bram Stoker.
So there's, as you named, overtfear of women's sexuality with
these witches.
And then there's a lot ofcovert homosexuality with the
scantily clad men, not just MarkSinger as star, like John Amos,
(48:19):
we see a lot of his flesh, I'mnot complaining.
So nudity is a thing in thismovie, not just.
And we do get gratuitous boobyshots with Tanya Roberts and her
bathing companions.
Kiri and another slave girl arebathing when we first meet them
and they are topless both ofthem.
So we get a lot of gratuitousnudity.
(48:40):
I saw Mark Singer's whole tush.
I saw Tanya Roberts' whole tush.
I saw Tanya Roberts' boobies,like there's a lot of nudity,
which I guess was what we wereinto in the 80s, you know, skies
out, thighs out.
So let's see, I also named thatthere's some really messed up
romance stuff because we see darmanipulate kiri into believing
(49:01):
that he has saved her and thendemands payment from her in the
form of a kiss which he justforcibly executes Like he just
assaults her effectively, sogross.
And she, you know she fightsback but then succumbs to the
influence, the manipulationbecause eventually she falls in
(49:23):
love with him.
I guess there's some reallygood acting from all of these
actors.
It's just like they reallydeliver those lines.
I mean, like Mark Singer likedoesn't change his tone or
affect throughout.
So that is what it is.
I named that there's someinteresting stuff around race.
(49:44):
So we've got John Amos' Seth asthe only non-white character in
the whole thing and that's notremarked upon, which is kind of
cool.
But at the same time, as soonas Dar Williams, as soon as Dar
shows up, mark Singer's Darshows up and kind of becomes a
comrade of Seth's.
Seth is completely like hedefers to Dar, seth defers to
(50:06):
Dar, which doesn't feel greatsince the only Black character
kind of has his authority, likechooses to subsume his authority
to this blonde-haired,blue-eyed, white dude.
Children has uncomfortableresonance with blood libel and
(50:28):
these priests of R with theirshaven heads and their
fanaticism has uncomfortableresonances with perhaps Hare
Krishna or perhaps Buddhistmonks or priests.
I also named the storytelling inthis like and the expectations
of the viewer and the fact that,like I really expected it to be
(50:48):
over after the third act and sothe fourth and fifth act felt
like ponderously long, eventhough they were quite active,
like that's.
That's what's curious about itis the pacing feels slow.
It wasn't like shit washappening in acts four and five.
I just was like why is this notover yet?
So that was kind of interestingand also like there, like there
were a lot of like good ideasand like interesting moments of
(51:12):
world building that didn't havesufficient space and maybe would
have benefited from being likeone or more of them being
removed so that the ones thatstayed could have like expanded
and had a little bit morebreathing room.
So those were the things that Iremember you also.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
You mentioned that we kind of got a sense of a strong
female character in kiri inthat she's like this awesome
fighter, but it's this like youare a strong female character,
but you're still gonna fall inlove with the man and so, like,
whatever it is that you'restrong at, it has to fit within
the man's narrative.
And then also, like in the sameway that your sexuality has to
(51:56):
be in service of procreation andnot just because you know it's
fun.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Right, and that piece too.
Like as a viewer today I'm likeevery time she showed interest
in him after that first meetingI'm like girl, no, back off.
Don't you remember you could doso much better.
That was certainly not what Iwas thinking in the 80s.
That was certainly not Well, Iactually am glad that I
rewatched it.
It was kind of fun to likeremember and be surprised and
(52:25):
all the things.
And and yeah, mark singerlooked great in 1982.
He really did so.
I mean tanya roberts did too,and seth, I mean john amos.
So you know there's there'sbeautiful people in this movie.
We like beautiful people hereat deep thoughts.
I really do, we really do sowhat's she bringing me?
Speaker 2 (52:42):
I am bringing you my deep thoughts on the Shawshank
Redemption.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Oh wow, it's a little deeper.
That's a very different vibe.
Well, I'll look forward tohearing it then See you, then
this show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
(53:08):
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon there's a link in the
show notes or leave a positivereview so others can find us and
, of course, share the show withyour people.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
(53:28):
Incompetechcom.
Find full music.
Credits in the show notes.
Thank you to ResonateRecordings for editing today's
episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
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