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You mean I'm gonna STAY this color?
On this week's episode, Tracie shares her deep thoughts about the 1979 Steve Martin film The Jerk, a comedy that never failed to delight the Guy sisters' father, no matter how many times he watched it. And for good reason. Martin's broad physical comedy and cultural commentary rooted in racial stereotypes conceals multiple layers of storytelling and humor in the tale of dim-witted Navin R. Johnson. Not only does the film follow Joseph Campbell's hero's journey from the world of fantasy, but the comedy works on so many levels that you can laugh at something different every time you watch it. (Although holding a dog in front of your crotch as you run naked down the street after the love of your life is always funny.)
Whether you can tap your foot to the beat or not, we'd love for you to listen in!
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
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We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com. For our work together, visit guygirlsmedia.com
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, and analyzing pop culture for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, and whatever else we find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
I do like feel like it's worth noting that the humor
relies on racial stereotypes.
It's sort of equal opportunity,and it definitely does so to
skewer whiteness or at leastwhite culture.
Right?
Like we are meant to uh see andbelieve that like the white
(00:21):
preferences that are coming outof Naven are worse.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's just
pop culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
(00:44):
about stupid shit.
I'm Tracy Guy Decker, and you'relistening to Deep Thoughts About
Stupid Shit, because pop cultureis still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1979 comedy classic The Jerkwith my sister, Emily Guy
(01:04):
Birkin, and with you.
Let's dive out.
My name for a second there,didn't you?
I almost called you Emily GuyDucker.
So I know you saw this moviebecause we watched it together
when we were kids, but tell mewhat's in your head about The
Jerk.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
Mostly snapshots.
So I remember I was born a poorblack child.
And I remember that.
I remember, you mean I'm gonnastay this color?
I remember that he makes like athing that goes on the bridge of
your glasses so to keep them.
Oh, so you don't you don't haveto touch the sides to keep them
(01:42):
up.
Because they're there, peopleend up being cross-eyed.
So he makes a huge amount ofmoney from that, but then
there's lawsuits because peoplebecome cross-eyed.
There's a point where he'sreally excited because he's in
the phone book.
And at the same time, there's aguy who's trying to kill him.
Yes.
You remember a lot.
(02:03):
Um you actually remember a lot.
And I think that's like I it'sjust it's snapshots.
And then I'm not gonna rememberher name, but that actress with
the curly hair is a loveinterest.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
Yes, who was his girlfriend at the time.
Her name was Brand Peters,that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
Yes.
So I remember her being in it.
And then I remember our dad,like when dad would laugh so
hard, he would be like gasping.
His infectious.
I remember him having thatreaction to this film, even
though, even by the time I waswatching it, he had seen it
multiple times.
(02:38):
He would still have thatreaction to it.
So tell me, why are we why arewe talking about the jerk today?
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
Well, it was on our list for exactly the reason you
just named that.
It was so like I remember dadloving the comedy.
And so that's kind of why it wason our list.
Why we're doing it now isbecause my friend Seth, who is a
regular listener, was like, youguys should do the jerk.
So so this one's for Seth.
And actually, he Seth made theargument that this is the
(03:05):
perfect movie for our showbecause it's deep thoughts about
stupid shit, and shit happens.
Like, there's lots of referencesto shit in the movie.
Like there's a bit about knowingthe difference between shit and
Cheyola, and there's like alittle kid wearing a t-shirt
that says bullshit who's kind ofimportant, and then his dog's
name is shithead.
So anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (03:25):
Well, and then and he's kind of stupid.
Characters.
So I mean the whole movie.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
Yeah.
So let me give you somepostcards from the destination,
and then I'll give you asynopsis.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Although you pretty much remember the postcard uh
because there's not much there.
I couldn't tell you how thosethings are connected, but okay.
SPEAKER_01 (03:49):
So my postcards from the destination, I was worried,
but this actually held up betterthan I expected.
It's not perfect, so I'm notsuggesting there's no problems,
but it actually held up a lotbetter than I expected.
So I'm gonna want to talk aboutcomedy and Steve Martin's comedy
in particular, because he hassort of a unique approach to
comedy, which has beendocumented.
People have written about it.
So I don't know that I'm gonnaadd anything new to that
(04:11):
conversation, but I do want tomention it.
And with you in particular, Iwant to talk about this movie's
critique of consumerism andabout and wealth and money
making.
And it seems to suggest thereare right ways to make money.
I'm putting quotes around rightways.
And so I want to talk about thata little bit.
We have to talk about race if wetalk about this movie, because
(04:32):
Steve Martin, who was 35 at thetime with prematurely gray hair,
begins this movie with, I wasborn a poor black child.
We have to talk about race.
I think we need to talk aboutsex as well, because there's
some interesting stuff.
He's very sexually naive andjust naive in general, and that
gets explored for laughs, ofcourse.
(04:54):
And then think speaking oflaughs, I want to talk a little
bit about like laughing atversus laughing with, which in
general I feel like we all agreelaughing at's not so great.
But this movie definitelyinvites us to laugh at Naven,
that's Steve Martin's character,even as we enjoy him.
So there's something reallyinteresting in the point of view
(05:15):
in that that somehow gives uspermission to laugh at him.
And then finally, I want tomaybe at least mention sort of
the social context into whichthis movie was born and this the
kind of comedy it is, whichwe've seen in other places, like
airplane comes to mind with thissort of gaga minute and like
what was happening in the late70s and early 80s in the US.
(05:37):
So I want to at least mentionthat.
So before we get there, let megive you a quick, I will do my
best to make it quick.
I'm not gonna go blow blah blow.
I will highlight a couple of keyscenes that are freaking
hilarious, just because I mightwant to come back to them when
we talk about the comedy stuff.
So the movie opens actually on acinema, a movie, and it sort of
(06:00):
pans over these people likesuper dressed up super nice,
like men of tuxedos and women ingowns, and then pans over to
this like back stairwell where acouple of unhoused folks are
lying around.
One of them is Steve Martin, whotalks directly to the camera and
says, I used to be somebody, Iused to have wealth and power
(06:22):
and everything, but thensomething happens.
And then he says, Huh?
You want to hear my story?
Okay.
It sounds like my dog.
And but he really does.
That's really how he that'sreally kind of how he sounds.
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
That's how Elbow sounded.
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
I know that's how my beagle sounded when I would talk
for him.
So he tells his story, and itstarts out, I was born a poor
black child.
And it's all in flashback.
And so there's this big blackfamily of sharecroppers, and
they're like singing and dancingon the porch, and there's Steve
Martin as Naven in overalls.
(07:00):
No rhythm, like not just likebad rhythm, like so off of
rhythm.
Like it's like hard to watch alittle bit.
It's Navyn's birthday, andthey're having a big meal, and
it's all it's sort ofstereotypical food.
Collard greens, cornbread.
Like that's what they're eating.
But they say it's Navyn'sbirthday.
(07:20):
So mama made his favorite meal,which is I don't remember what
the sandwich is, but it's somesort of sandwich on white bread
with mayonnaise and Twinkies.
And that's his favorite meal,and she made a special for his
birthday.
And everybody gives him gifts,and they're all like little
small tokens.
And he's sort of the tiny Tim ofthis family, even though he's a
35-year-old man and there areother children at the table.
(07:40):
Cause after he gets his gifts,he's like, Oh, thank you,
everybody.
God bless us, everyone.
And then he like runs off to bedand he's like crying.
So here's the big reveal.
Mama tells him, You're not ournatural-born son.
You were left on our porch, butwe raised you as our own.
And he's like, You mean I'mgonna stay this color?
(08:01):
Which is hilarious in themoment.
He decides to go off and see theworld because the gospel hour on
the radio ends and it just turnsoff, and now it's musac.
It's just like boring music.
And all of a sudden he can like,he has the.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Oh my goodness.
I remember I've never heardmusic like this before.
And it is like the most milktoast white bread music, music.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:24):
And he's like, if this is out there, what else is
out there?
And so that's how he decides togo see the world.
And he actually like can liketap his feet on rhythm and snap
his fingers on rhythm.
And so he's he's really excited.
So he goes off to see the worldand like so many gags to get
there.
In some ways, it's like aclassic, like road movie in that
(08:47):
sense.
So he has these adventures.
He ends up in in a gas stationowned by Jackie Mason, and he
ends up working for him andliving there as well.
And there are shenanigans at thegas station.
The phone book scene that youremember, like he's talking to
Jackie Mason's character whosename is like Harry Harot
Harotini or something.
(09:08):
I don't remember exactly what itis.
It doesn't matter.
He's talking to Jackie Mason'scharacter about something about
the gas station.
And then he's, oh my God, oh mygod, they're here, they're here,
they're here.
And it's like the delivery ofthe phone books, and he goes and
finds his name.
He's like, here it is on page,blah, blah, blah.
Like right there in black andwhite, Johnson, Naven, R.
I'm somebody now.
(09:28):
Thousands of people look at thisbook every day.
I'm somebody.
And then, like, the very nextscene is like some random dude,
a white dude, like randomlypointing to a thing in the phone
book.
Johnson, Naven R.
What a jerk.
I'm gonna kill.
Like, and he's a madman.
(09:49):
And in fact, the subtitles saymadman.
Like, that's the dude's likecharacter name.
So this guy goes and is liketrying to kill Naven with a
long-range rifle.
And this is one scene that Iwant to tell because it was so
funny.
He's standing there next to alike a pyramid of oil cans.
(10:12):
Naven is standing in the gasstation next to a pyramid of oil
cans that's on display, like forsale.
And the madman is shooting athim from the hills across the
street and misses Naven and hitsthe oil can.
And so it like springs a leakfrom the bullet hole.
And then it keeps happening.
And Naman's like, Harry, comelook at these cans.
They're defective.
(10:34):
And Harry knows what, like,realizes pretty quickly what's
happening and like points outthe man across the street, like
with the rifle.
SPEAKER_02 (10:42):
And Naaman's like, he hates cans.
And he keeps running todifferent parts of the gas
station to try and get awayfrom.
And there are cans everywhere.
It's so stupid.
It's so funny.
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
Oh God.
So I think in that same the themadman is trying to get a beat
on him through the scope of hisrifle, and he actually helps
this customer whose glasses keepfalling off.
This is before the the he hatescans.
The glasses keep coming off, andthe guy's like, damn these
glasses, because they keepfalling off.
(11:28):
And Nathan goes, I damn thee.
I damn thee.
And he points at the glass.
Anyway, he fashions a little, asyou remember, a little handle
that goes in the bridge of thenose.
And it's almost too far-fetchedthat this dim-witted man would
think to do this, except heexplains that he's like, it's
like the tire rod of the blahblah.
(11:50):
Like it's some automotiveconnection that made him think
of it.
So that he does, you're notputting pressure on the arms.
The man's name is Stan Fox, andhe's like super stoked about
this little handle.
Okay.
So running away from the madman,he actually drives away in a car
that doesn't have any, it hasthe wheels but no tires.
So he's driving on all fourrims.
(12:11):
And he drives down the road toget away from the madman who
gets in his own car and chaseshim.
And he ends up in a like behinda fence of a carnival.
And the sign says carnivalpersonnel only, which stops the
madman who stands at the gateand goes, He's not a carnival
personnel.
SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
But will not actually go in.
So there's honor among that end.
SPEAKER_01 (12:44):
I guess.
So we get the movie gives us anumber, a lot of exposition
through letters that Naven issending home to his parents or
to his whole family.
He's he's sending letters andlike little bits of money home,
like$2 here and 49 cents thereand whatever.
So we get some exposition thathe wrote to Mr.
whatever his name is, gasstation owner, Jackie Mason, to
(13:06):
say I could come back.
And Jackie Mason said, Don't bea putz.
You've already see the world,you've already seen me.
So he gets a job with thecarnival.
He's doing he's guessing weight.
And here's the one of the firstlike sort of money things beside
besides him sending money home.
He says that his boss comesover, he's a weight guesser, and
(13:29):
he says, Oh, I'm not very goodat this.
I've given away five pencils andthree things, and look, whatever
the prizes are that he's givenaway.
And all I've made is$15.
And the boss says, Naven, you'redoing great.
You took in$15 and you gave away50 cents worth of craft.
So that's$14.50 a profit for us.
(13:50):
And Nathan goes, Oh, it's aprofit game.
That takes the pressure off.
So and then he starts barkinglike, get your way, guests, win
some crap.
So we his barking getsinterrupted by motorcycle
(14:11):
daredevil, a woman, PattyBernstein.
And she jumps through a ring offire and he watches and he's
super excited.
And she's kind of abrasive, evenin this brief interaction with
her handlers.
Like she tosses her helmet atone of them, like really
aggressively.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Is this Bernadette Hitters or is this a no?
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
She's played by Caitlin Adams.
So Patty Bernstein, and she's soshe's and she like burps and
spits, like she's crass, and shelikes big makeup and like
purple, short purple hair, andthis like leather boustier
motorcycle daredevil.
So the next day, or sometime, Ithink it's the next day, she
(14:54):
sort of takes interest in himand is like flirting hard, like
takes a bite of his corn dog,and he's like, What about germs?
And she goes, put a rubber onit.
Anyway, she um makes him likeput his arms up and turn around
and like go like this, which islike a pelvic thrust.
And she's like, Okay, get on thebike.
(15:15):
And from a distance, somebodygoes, Don't hurt him.
He has to work tonight.
And she takes him back to hertrailer, which is filthy, like
dirty, like food wrapperseverywhere.
It's just a mess.
And he says something like, Youcan really tell a lot about a
person from how they live.
And I can tell that you're areally dirty person.
Anyway, they through exposition,we realize they develop a sexual
(15:38):
relationship.
And this is actually from mymemory, the family is reading a
letter and says, I can only sendyou this much money this week,
but I think I might be able tosend you more next week because
my friend Patty has promised mea blowjob.
I learned what that word meantbecause of this movie.
Blowjob.
So, and like the fam Navendoesn't know what it means.
The family doesn't know what itmeans, except his older brother
(16:00):
Taj, who's like trying not tolaugh.
Because the mom is, the dadsays, She must be a good girl,
or something like that.
And the mom's like, oh, blessher heart, or something like
that.
Oh man.
Oh my.
So next we see him.
He's actually at the carnivalrunning the little miniature
(16:23):
train.
And he finishes his ride and hesees a pretty girl.
That's Bernadette Peters.
She says, Oh no, have you seen alittle boy?
She's like calling for Billy,Billy.
And she says, Have you seen alittle blonde boy wearing a
t-shirt that says bullshit?
And he's like, No, I haven'tseen him.
And then we hear the traingoing.
Billy is like driving the littlemini train.
(16:44):
So he has to like chase afterhim and catch him and like
whatever.
And there's immediately we aremeant to see that there's
chemistry between the Bernadetteand Peters character and Navin.
And so, and there's this reallyweird exchange, but they end up
asking, like, he ends up askingher for a date.
Her name is Marie.
And they're supposed to meet thenext day at the midway.
(17:08):
Patty, the motorcycle daredevil,realizes what's happening and
she like threatens him and likedestroys the daisies he's picked
for her.
He goes and finds her anyway.
They have a little date thatgets interrupted by Patty, and
Patty says terrible things.
(17:29):
I don't know.
She just goes away.
So the next, because the next wesee, they are Navyn and Marie
are on the beach walking andsinging, and one of them is
playing a ukulele, I think.
I don't remember which.
Pretty sure it's Navin.
And then they end up at like acampfire and they're singing
this really sweet little song,like harmonizing.
It's actually a very like one ofthe only like sweet moments in
(17:52):
this film.
Which even that gets interruptedbecause they finish singing and
she pulls out a coronet, like atrumpet, and starts playing
there.
Which is so absurd.
And like at the end, shefinishes the cornet and he says,
I while you were playing justthen, I wished I had this
(18:12):
fantasy that I could go inthrough the bell of this cornet
and go all the way.
And he says the whole thingthrough the whole length and end
up on your lips.
And she's like, Well, why didn'tyou?
And he says, I didn't want toget spit on me.
So they end up together, andhe's totally crazy about her.
And she lets him know that hermom wants her to marry someone
(18:36):
rich, someone who has money.
We get this exposition whereshe's asleep and he's talking to
her.
He knows she's asleep, but he'stalking to her with this
hilarious, apparently ad-libbedthing where he's like, I know
we've only known each other forfour weeks and three days, but
to me it feels more like sixweeks and blah blah blah days
because the first day was likefive days, but the second day
was like three days.
SPEAKER_02 (18:55):
He does this whole thing about why it's different.
SPEAKER_01 (19:00):
Anyway, he says he's gonna, he's gonna propose to
her.
And so the next day he's in thetub talking to her in the other
room.
He's in this bubble bath, andhe's like, and he's singing this
little song about having pickedout a thermos for her, and he's
getting ready to ask her tomarry him, and she's like crying
(19:20):
and like writing a Dear Johnletter, which she slips under
the bathroom door and thenleaves.
And then he asks her to marryhim.
She's gone.
The dog, who I didn't even tellyou how he got the dog, but he
has a dog called Shithead.
And the dog barks in response tohis question.
He was like, Oh, you've made meso happy, as if the dog bark had
been her.
(19:41):
And he says, Get in here, comeget in the tub with me.
And so the dog jumps in the tubwith him.
And he's like, No, not you,shithead.
Where's Marie?
And he realizes that the dog hecan talk to the like the dog
barks and it's almost likelassie, and he thinks he knows
what the dog is saying.
And so he gets the letter, butit's all like smudged and runny
from the bathwater.
So he's reading it out loud andlike, I really remember this
(20:03):
part.
SPEAKER_02 (20:04):
It's hilarious.
So then he like gets out of thetub and he's like, good idea,
shithead.
And the next thing we see, he'slike walking through the
courtyard out of the apartments,holding the dog in front of his
genitals, calling for Marie.
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
And there's a woman like doing some yard work or
something with her little dog,like a like a little yappy dog.
SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
And as he walks past her, he picks up her dog and
covers his butt with it.
So he's got shit in the frontand this little dog.
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
Oh my god, I gotta get quicker.
I gotta get quicker.
It's just so funny.
So he's he's lost Marie.
The madman shows up again.
He's like, Oh god, not you.
And he's like running from themadman.
The guy finally catches him,catches up to him, like because
he hits a dead end, and he says,You have to sign for this.
And Naman's like, I have to signbefore you'll kill me.
(20:56):
The guy's like, Oh, I'm muchbetter now.
Now I'm a private investigator.
And he hands him a letter and itsays, Please come see me at this
address.
And he goes to see the guy, andhe doesn't even remember the
guy.
It's Stan Fox, the guy who hemade the glasses thing for.
This guy has put this thing intoproduction.
He calls it the OptiGrab, andhe's sold tons of them.
(21:18):
And he had told Navin that if hewas able to make money on it, he
would cut Navin in 50-50, sinceNavin was the one who invented
it.
So he says, here's the first250, and I'm sure there's more
where that came from.
So Navin goes to the bank andhe's super excited about this
$250.
And the banker opens theenvelope and looks at the check
and it's$250,000.
And the banker's like, You wantto cash this?
(21:40):
And Navin's like, well, maybeI'll take$50 and you can put the
other$200 in an account.
And then the banker's like, Yes,you know, he's like super
excited.
And then he realizes how muchmoney it is.
And then there's more, like hekeeps getting more money.
And then his he gets a phonecall from someone and he says,
Oh, Mrs.
Kimball, oh, you're Marie's mom.
(22:00):
Oh, you read about me in thepaper?
Yes, I'd love to know where sheis.
Well, that seems a little high.
Would you take 75?
So, like, Marie's mom calls andoffers to tell him where Marie
is if he pays her.
Yeah, gross.
So he's reunited with Marie,more exposition to his parents.
Our one luxury is live in butlerand housekeeper, but they're
(22:24):
still in this tiny littleapartment.
The butler's like, with thismuch money, sir, why don't you
buy a bigger house?
So then we get this bizarrescene.
I don't know if bizarre is theright word.
This one actually feels likesocial commentary.
He's there's a voiceover of hisletter to his parents.
Remember how I always used totell dad that I wanted, and it's
like this list of all theserooms and like absolutely
(22:46):
ridiculous.
Like an all-red billiard roomwith a life-size-stuffed camel
and like unbelievable things.
And he but he's saying it as ifhe's always wanted these things,
you know, like outdoor gardenswith S-shaped hedges and three
swimming pools.
Well, now I have that.
Just really, really bizarre andlike really extravagant.
Oh, there's another money momentwhere, again, in exposition, he
(23:09):
says, My butler's wife made anearly withdrawal from her bank
and had to pay a steep penalty.
And then we see the butlerlooking out the window, the wife
facing a firing squad.
And like we hear the gunshot.
So what?
So I mean, I think I think thatactually may be in context in
(23:30):
1979, is what that wasconsidering.
So Naven is living it up, likehe's so naive, and they are so
nouveau riche.
Like they are at a fancyrestaurant and he complains
about the snails on her foodwhen she ordered escargot.
And like, I don't want any moreof this old wine.
Bring me this year's wine.
I remember that scene, yes.
(23:52):
And then like they have a tenniscourt where they have these big
jugs, like water coolers of finewine and this like Dixie cup,
you know, one of those tubes,the Dixie cups you pull down,
but it's got crystal goblets init.
It's just so, oh my god, it's sofunny.
They're having a big party attheir house, they're in the
disco room, and then Naven's onTV.
So they ever be quiet, be quiet.
(24:13):
It's the interview.
So it's this interview whereNaven was being interviewed by
one of the news programs, andthey he gives the first answer
about what it's like to be amillionaire, and then they say,
We were gonna show you the wholeinterview, but breaking news.
And Carl Reiner, who is in factthe director of this movie, got
the OptiGrab and has the crosseyed.
And as a result of his like poordepth perception, he called cut
(24:36):
too late, and there was this bigcar accident, and these actors
would be alive, and so he'ssuing Naven R.
Johnson for$10 million.
And immediately all of hisfriends' friends, I'm putting
quotes around that word, leave.
And Bernadette Peters's Marie islike, I don't even care about
(24:57):
the money.
It's the stuff I'll miss.
So there's a very quick courtscene, and the judge finds him
guilty, the judge has crosseyes, the jury all have cross
eyes, and then so then we seehim like at his desk writing out
(25:18):
checks because the$10 million,but it was like almost 10
million plaintiffs.
So he's writing a check for$1.9to each of them.
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
So Marie comes in and I'm sorry, she's in you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
So Marie comes in and she's like, We've hit rock
bottom, and he's like, I haven'thit rock bottom.
And anyway, they like she'swearing her old dress, and they
have this argument, and then hedecides to leave.
He's like, I don't need you, Idon't need anything.
And then there's this hilariousscene that is in my memory that
comes up regularly.
All I need is this ashtray.
SPEAKER_02 (26:06):
This is all I need.
This ashtray and thispaddleball.
SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
This ashtray and this paddleball and this chair.
You know, and like, andapparently that was ad libbed,
which, like, damn, Steve, that'shilarious.
That is genius.
Which is funny because then itgives a very funny sight gag
where he's like wandering thestreets, like with this chair
and ashtray and paddleball andwhatever the heck he picked up
on his way out the door.
(26:30):
And he's like sitting on abench, like carrying this stuff.
And then a woman walks by with athermos that is like the one he
described in the song that hesang to her about picking out a
thermos, and you see him followthe woman and the woman come
back out with all of his stuff,and him come out with the
thermos.
So now we've caught up.
He's in the on the stairwell bythe cinema, and his family shows
(26:52):
up and they're like, Any of youheard an Avan R.
Johnson?
He's like, Hey, that's me.
His whole family, the wholesharecropper family, and Marie.
So as soon as he left, Mariecalled them and he's like, How
did you find us?
They were like, I don't know.
This is the first place welooked, which maybe is
convenient, or maybe I don'tknow.
I'm not sure if I need to unpackthat further.
But anyway, and it turns, andthen Taj, the older brother,
(27:16):
says, Turns out dad's afinancial genius.
And dad says, All I did, wait, Iwant to get this right because
it's you.
So dad says, All I did was takethe money you sent home and
embarked on a periodicinvestment in a no-load mutual
fund.
And then Taj says, he leveragedhis ass deep in soybeans and
cocoa futures.
So the family is now wealthy.
(27:39):
And Marie and Naven moved backto the Mississippi sharecropping
lands.
And he says, you know, therewere so many of us, the house
was too small, so we had to tearit down, even though we loved
it, and we built a new biggerone.
And like the scene like scrubsto a blank field and then to the
new house, which is like maybe20% larger than the old one and
(28:03):
just as run down.
I remember that part.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then they're all singing anddancing on the porch.
And Naven is actually able todance on rhythm now.
So there's so many gags that Ididn't mention.
Like I didn't even talk abouthow he got the dog who he's
gonna call lucky because hethought the dog was saving them
all from a fire, but there wasno fire, and so somebody else is
(28:26):
like, you shouldn't call thatdog lucky, you should call it
shithead.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there's just there's so manythat I missed, but that's the
like you actually rememberedthat it's rags to riches to rags
is the plot, and he's real dumb.
And so that's kind of so yeah, Imean, yeah, it actually very
(28:50):
sweet.
I think so.
I actually think part of theappeal of Naven, like I don't
have a strong like emotionalconnection to him, but I do find
him appealing and endearing.
And I think part of it is likemixed in with the naivete is a
certain degree of optimism andtrusting, right?
(29:15):
So he hates cans.
Or there's a scene where heactually ends up like hooking,
there's these credit cardthieves.
He realizes they're credit cardthieves, and it's really funny.
These three Latino dudes in thisjacked up, this like sort of
fancy car, and they've got liketons of purses in the car, and
they hand him a credit card andhe says, Okay, sure thing, Mrs.
(29:38):
Nussbaum, I'll fill you right.
Mrs.
Nussbaum?
And he goes, Oh, I'm Mr.
Nussbaum.
It's this Latino guy, you know?
And he's like, Okay, Mr.
Nussbaum, you know, and then herealizes it's a stolen credit
card, so he hooks the back oftheir car to the church that's
right next door, thinking he'slike got one over on them.
And then when they try then whenthey actually drive away, it
like pulls off the whole likesection of the church.
(30:00):
And interrupts a wedding.
So the groom is in the back ofthis thing that's being dragged
down the road.
Anyway, but with these guys,they ask, I don't remember, they
ask some sort of question.
He says, Oh, no, we have cash,but I keep it here because, you
know, you can't trust everyone.
So he's like telling these menwho we as the audience know are
(30:21):
not trustworthy about the moneythat he's got in his pocket.
And it's that kind of thing overand over again, where he just
this very trusting and veryoptimistic and sweet sort of,
even the like, I'll send youmore money next week because my
friend Patty's gonna give me ablood.
You know, like so, but he's verydim.
(30:42):
Like one of the very first gagsafter the white man who's been
adopted by a black family gag ishis dad's like, if you're gonna
go out on the road, I need toteach you something.
That's shit.
This is shinola.
Shit, shinola.
Yeah, dim.
So let me just get out of theway.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
This film doesn't pass the back tail test.
So Navin's mother and Mariedon't talk to each other.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
And Navin's mother and his sister, Alvi Alvira,
they do speak, but they speakabout Naven.
It's also true that though Navintalks to other people about
things besides about all kindsof things.
But no other two men who arenamed talked about anything
except Naven.
SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
Oh, okay.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
So I I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Anyway, center of this world's universe.
SPEAKER_01 (31:34):
He really is the center of this movie's universe.
So so that's like just get thatout of the way.
So I wanna actually start withthe race conversation, even
though that wasn't the firstpostcard I gave.
So I was really, really worriedsitting down, and it's not
perfect because it leans onstereotypes, right?
Like the black family is thesharecropper family, they're
(31:56):
eating cornbread and collardgreens, and they're singing pick
a bale of cotton.
Like that's the song thatthey're singing.
Like, so it very much leans onstereotypes.
At the same time, it does notpunch down.
Naven's family are possibly theonly truly like morally good
people in the whole movie.
And it leans on similarstereotypes about white people
(32:21):
with the sandwich on whitebread, and like Navin like runs
away from the table before heeats it.
So his brother says, Naven, I Iwrapped your sandwich in
cellophane just like you likedit.
And like the music being likewhite people music.
Like, so I'm not saying thatmakes it okay.
I do like feel like it's worthnoting that the humor relies on
(32:42):
racial stereotypes, and it's notjust in one direction.
Yeah, it's sort of equalopportunity, and it definitely
does so to skewer whiteness orat least white culture.
SPEAKER_00 (32:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
Right?
Like, we are meant to see andbelieve that like the white
preferences that are coming outof Naven are worse.
Like this, like really delicioussounding meal versus this white
bread sandwich with mayonnaise,like and the Twinkies like still
(33:15):
in the plastic.
Like where they so it's notpunching down with the
stereotypes.
I want to name that.
Also, because he sets himself upas I was born a poor black
child, and he continues toidentify that way.
There's a moment where thesereal estate con artists are
(33:36):
trying to convince him when he'srich, to convince him to invest
in this new development scheme.
And they want to assure him thatthey will keep the black folks
out.
And they say it in euphemisticways that he doesn't get.
So finally they use the N-word.
They say, We'll keep the N-wordout.
And he says, I am an N-word, andlike throws off his robe and
(33:57):
turns into this karate dude andbeats them all up one at a time.
SPEAKER_02 (34:03):
I have no memory.
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
It's like so there's a degree to which this I think
the comedy is the absurdism ofit.
But he uses that absurdism thenagain to like give racists their
comeubins, right?
Who sort of like here's thisvery white-looking dude who has
white tastes, who they think islike one of them.
(34:30):
I'm putting quotes around that.
And then he ends up beating themall up.
I mean, he also hurts his footwhen he tries to kick Iron Balls
McGinty in the crotch.
SPEAKER_00 (34:39):
But you know, it's a ridiculous movie.
So well, it's also the fact thatthe happy ending is they all end
up back living with his familyof origin.
With money.
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
With money.
So like it's almost like I thinkthere was one commentator, I'll
see if I can link, I'll try andfind it and link to the in the
show notes, like, who wants toclaim makes the argument that
Martin Steve Martin is soAerudite that in fact he had
like classic hero movies, herostories in the Joseph Cameron.
(35:12):
Like Odysseus.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And that's the return to theyes.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
My sister's just made a face.
SPEAKER_01 (35:22):
And then he was making reference to specific
classical heroes' journey.
There's a a degree to which sortof the other world that he
explores, if this is a JosephCampbell hero's journey, that
other world that he's exploringis the white world.
He doesn't interact with anyblack folks except for his
family.
So while he's on his adventure,he does not interact with black
(35:46):
folks at all.
And he has this through sheerluck, he has this big win, but
it's taken away from his j justas easily.
Oh, this that I I remember thiscommentator mentioned Odysseus
and and the Odyssey, but alsoJack Kerouac and another of the
(36:07):
beat poets on the road andanother one that I can't
remember.
Anyway, if it's the hero'sjourney, then the other world is
actually the white world, if youwill.
And it doesn't suit him, whichis interesting from this all
white production team.
SPEAKER_00 (36:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:25):
Right.
It's also interesting that,like, part of the gag in the
beginning in the extraordinaryworld in the hero's journey
framework, is this essentialismaround around raise, right?
He's been raised from infancywith this family, and yet his
(36:45):
taste preferences for what heeats, flavor to preferences, his
music preferences all seem to bedetermined by his genetics.
Racial genetics, which is thegag.
I mean, that's why it's funny.
Like it wouldn't be funny if hewere culturally black, having
been raised by a black family,because that's what we expect.
I don't there's something sortof interesting about that.
(37:07):
But then he had to go experiencethe white world, and now he has
rhythm.
He's dancing on the porch in thefinal scene.
I don't know that I haveanything else to say about that,
but like it's it's really likethere's a lot to unpick there.
SPEAKER_00 (37:20):
Speaking of the Odyssey, it's the Penelope
unpicking her uh her weaving.
Her weaving just because there'sthere's so much in there that
it's like it's in some ways veryprogressive and in some ways
very regressive, and yet in someways using regressive
stereotypes just make aprogressive point.
SPEAKER_01 (37:37):
And like, yes, exactly, exactly.
So let's stay with that, whatthe way you just described it,
and talk about money andconsumerism.
Because I feel like taken as awhole, this is a critique of
consumerism because Navyn andMarie are meant to be seen as
completely ridiculous with theway like we are we are meant to
feel superior to them and theirsort of nouveau riche existence,
(38:01):
you know, like sending back thesnails that are in the escargo
and even the the Dixie Cupcrystal goblets, you know.
But it isn't wealth itselfbecause dad made money on that
no load mutual fund.
And we're meant to admire that,right?
So there's something which isn'thard work, right?
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
That's a similar kind of like it's not luck, but
that is a similar kind of it'ssomething that you are able to
get into because of luck.
Because you can't invest in inthe stock market in mutual funds
if you don't have some money.
So the luck that the family had,that the father had was that
Navin sent money back.
(38:47):
So he had some extra money toinvest.
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
But that's not the message.
Luck is not the message fromthis movie.
SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
Well, and just what I'm saying is there's something
similar to them making money inthe stock market to Naven
falling into the opto grab.
SPEAKER_01 (39:03):
That may be the case in actuality.
I do not think that is themessage that our movie makers
are giving us.
I think there is something aboutsort of dumb luck versus smart
strategy.
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:15):
Yeah.
I think that's actually the sortof the juxtaposition that we are
meant to see between the twoways of making money.
SPEAKER_00 (39:22):
Well, and especially since so no load mutual fund,
all that means is that it's amutual fund that doesn't have
fees.
Okay.
All in on it was like soybeanand soy and cocoa futures.
Soy and cocoa futures.
So what that means is dad knowshis business because he's a
sharecropper, he knows farming,he knows those things, and so
you invest in what you know.
And so like he made intelligentdecisions with the extra money
(39:45):
that they had.
Having that money was luck.
And it was luck.
Because it it traced back toNathan.
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
Well, not all of it.
He'd been sending money from hisvery first job at the gas
station where he made a dollarten.
Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
But the actual investment, that's not luck.
That's about leveraging theknowledge that you have to make
your money grow.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
So the way you just said that, I mean, part of it
maybe is just reiterating thatNaven's not very smart.
unknown (40:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
Well, what knowledge does he have?
Right.
No, no, he doesn't.
He's he doesn't know thedifference between shit and
shinel.
SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
Right.
Right.
Literally.
Right.
Well, and then what does thefamily do with that money?
They build a bigger house, butit's like only a little bigger.
SPEAKER_01 (40:37):
Yeah, it's not the sort of extravagant, like they
are not guilty of lifestylecreep.
Right.
Like Naven and Marie had hugelifestyle creep.
And that's what I think thatscene with the voiceover.
Remember how I always used tochit-chat with dad about and
these ridiculous things thatthere is no way a chaircropper
son was chit-chatting with dadabout.
(40:59):
Yeah.
But the way he said it is he'sthat's I think that's how
consumerism and lifestyle creepworks, right?
We convince ourselves we'vealways wanted this thing that
like we do not need.
SPEAKER_00 (41:09):
Well, there's two aspects to it.
There's the thing that was anwhen with lifestyle creep, the
thing that was an occasionaltreat.
So for instance, I get I get mynails done like every three
weeks.
In my 20s, I did that when I wasin a wedding.
And so that was an occasionaltreat that I had to save up for,
or it was a special occasion.
(41:30):
Whereas once once you're makingmore money, it now becomes like,
no, no, no, no, I need this.
Right.
This is part of what I need now.
And so your brain can't let goof the idea of this is a need
when it was a treat or a wantfor a long time.
Right.
And then you can also kind ofretroactively like, well, I
always wanted this because like,right, look at it.
(41:52):
It's awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
The always wanted it is exactly what that that scene
does.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me come.
I we're I want to make sure weget time to talk about comedy
because I think there's a lothas been written about Steve
Martin and his approach tocomedy.
And the man is really smart andlike very learned, and like
actually, like apparentlyself-consciously, like took a
(42:17):
class in psychology about humorand decided to try something
different.
Right.
Um specifically for this movieor or as part of the this movie
as part of his trajectory fromhis stand-up and his SNL time.
What I read said that he readthat comedy works where you set
the audience up for anexpectation and then it like you
create tension and then yourelieve it with a punchline.
(42:39):
And he decided, I'm not gonna dothat.
Instead, I'm gonna let themdecide sort of what's funny.
Like, so without telling them.
And he also did a lot of like,there's a lot been written on
him about the way that hejuxtaposed things.
Like one of his most famousstand-up things was, you know,
the banjo gig gag, where he'slike dressed in this white suit
(42:59):
with a black tie with a GrouchoMarks nose and the arrow through
the skull and the pink bunnyears.
He's just absolutely ridiculous,and then plays the banjo.
And it's funny because he'sridiculous looking, but it's
also funny because he is a verygood banjo player.
So it's like a virtuoso banjoplayer wearing this ridiculous
stuff.
And so part of it is thejuxtaposition.
SPEAKER_00 (43:20):
It's really like Yo-Yo Ma showing up with an
arrow through his head.
SPEAKER_01 (43:23):
Kinda, yeah.
And that piece of it's wassometimes lost on folks, right?
Like so over the top.
But that sort of letting theaudience kind of find the
punchline is at least the what Iwas reading about, sort of his
kind of brand of comedy, atleast in the these early days in
the 70s and 80s.
And I think there's there's likemultiple layers.
(43:46):
Just like we like, I think wecould have keep kept talking
about like the race and thehero's journey and like how
those things all layer.
Like Martin is a master, Ithink, of that sort of like
surface level absurd.
You're laughing because he's gotbunny ears on, or whatever, like
this physical comedy.
He's holding a dog in front ofhis garage.
That's hilarious.
(44:08):
But then also these extralayers, which is really
fascinating in the context of1979.
Like Vietnam War is over, andlike Americans want escapist
comedy.
And so they get it in hisabsurdism.
But now, as we've been talkingjust in the past few minutes,
we're seeing like, and also, ifyou spend some time there,
(44:31):
there's really some interestinglike conversation about
consumerism.
I think the fact that Marie is,I mean, the fact that it's her
mother makes it okay for us tolike her anyway, but Marie's a
gold digger.
SPEAKER_00 (44:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:48):
And so, and that consumerism, and this like, it's
not the money I'll miss, it'sthe stuff, which is hilarious,
but also has a huge commentaryon consumerism.
And Marie comes around, right?
Like she comes around and shelike the moment he leaves,
apparently she goes and gets hisfamily to try and find him
because she cares about him.
(45:09):
It's complicated.
I I think I find that really,really interesting in this movie
and just in general, andthinking about what is funny and
what makes us laugh and sort ofthe different layers of it.
SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
It's also fascinating, just thinking
contextually, because it cameout in 1979, which I don't think
I knew exactly when it came out.
I knew I was a kid, but I wouldhave been a baby.
But this is before like the 80sgreed is good kind of like
consumerism.
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
It's almost prescient of that in 70s.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (45:43):
Yeah.
And so that is kind offascinating too, putting it in
that context of it's comingright before that.
Whereas in 79, Jimmy Carter wasstill president.
And I do think it's worthwhilelooking at like political forces
that are going on.
I've come to realize how much oflike specifically presidential
(46:04):
elections are pushback againstpolitical forces.
And so with Reagan being apushback against Jimmy Carter's
presidency and the kind ofpolitical forces that would have
a movie end with this the happyending being what it was, and
like a a uh commentary onconsumerism.
And then like in the 1980s, fuckyou, I am gonna be a
(46:26):
consumerist.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:28):
Though it's interesting, like that you name
that because in he works in agas station and there's this one
shot, there's a sign in thewindow that says gas prices.
If you have to ask, you can'tafford it.
So, like these single shots thatwere these like topical.
Yeah, you know?
Yeah.
We're running a little short ontime.
SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
Um, you did want to talk about like laughing at
Naven.
SPEAKER_01 (46:49):
Yeah, that's exactly where I was going.
Thank you.
So while we're talking aboutcomedy and what's funny, like
Naven is our hero in this hero'sjournal journey, but he is also
the butt of the joke.
And I'm not sure how to feelabout that.
Like, there's several momentswhere we see in the reactions of
(47:10):
those around him, Jackie Mason,his brother Taj, like we see
that other people see howridiculous he is, right?
Like Taj like can't stoplaughing at the, or you know, is
like trying to hold back hislaughter at the blowjob joke.
Jackie Mason, like about thephone book and at other moments,
is just like, like, I mean, thatJackie Mason had a hugely
(47:33):
expressive face, right?
He's like, oh, this guy.
Yeah.
Look at this punk over here.
SPEAKER_00 (47:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:38):
Yeah, exactly.
And so the audience is kind ofgiven permission, I think,
through those things to be like,oh, oh yeah, yeah, no, he really
is dumb.
And so we're given permission tofeel superior, which we have
talked about before thatAmericans really love that.
That's one of our favorite formsof humor.
Well, oh, I hadn't put thattogether yet.
We talked about that a couple oftimes in the airplane episode,
and then again, more recently, Ican't remember which episode.
(48:04):
But based on some studies, likeAmericans, yes, thank you.
Americans' favorite kind of formof comedy is to feel superior,
like we really enjoy that.
And so this movie definitelygives us that over and over and
over again with Nathan, who isalso our hero.
And I find that tension, like,like I'm judging myself a little
(48:27):
bit for it.
I'm just not sure where to putit.
Like, I laughed out loud a lotwatching this movie.
And they're defin like itworked.
I felt superior, you know, and Ienjoyed it.
And I'm like, hmm, Trace, that'snot on brand for you.
SPEAKER_00 (48:47):
One thing I you know, and I'm I I am thinking
about is like we're feelingsuperior to someone who is
relatively privileged.
I mean, like, yes, he was born apoor black child and all of
that, but he's not.
unknown (49:03):
I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (49:04):
And he's gonna be okay no matter what.
SPEAKER_01 (49:07):
I mean, I do think there maybe is something to the
subversion of the sort ofmiddle-aged.
I mean, he wasn't, he was 35,but with the gray hair, like the
sort of middle-aged, like adultwhite cis man, sort of in that
role that does feel somehow moreacceptable.
SPEAKER_00 (49:26):
Yeah, if this had been like even a white woman, I
don't think it would be, I thinkit would be a lot harder to
watch.
SPEAKER_03 (49:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (49:33):
If if it had been a woman who was born a poor, poor
black child.
SPEAKER_01 (49:37):
I suspect there is also something about Martin's
delivery and maybe the optimism,too, that I named initially, and
that sweetness that also makesit okay.
Because he's not suffering as aresult of our laughing at him.
He doesn't even know.
There's also a degree to whichlike the laughing at is a
(49:58):
laughing with because he'salways happy.
SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
Or I will say, so the first time I saw it, and I
can't tell you how old I was,but I was young enough that I
definitely understood why he wasexcited about having his name in
the phone book.
I would not have been that big,but you know how like kids are,
we're like, it's my name, wherepeople can see it.
(50:23):
So, and I remember knowing thatit was funny that he was excited
about it.
And for me, it was the way thathe because Steve Martin is such
a physical comedian, it's sobig.
But I also knew it was supposedto be not that big a deal.
And yet little like five orsix-year-old me would have been
like, but it is, it is a bigdeal.
(50:43):
I get it, I get why he'sexcited.
And like the fact that I did notfeel any tension in like I
should feel weird about the factthat I would be just as excited.
Well, not just as excited, butlike I didn't feel any tension
about that.
So there's no, there's likethere's not meanness in the
making fun of it.
SPEAKER_01 (51:02):
I think that's right.
There's not meanness.
I think that's right.
I think that's right.
So I didn't even get to talkabout sex because I do think
there's some things to unpackwith Patty Bernstein, who I
don't know why they gave her aJewish name, who was the
motorcycle, like very crass.
And like the movie does someslut shaming of her, I think.
Yeah.
Versus Bernadette Peters Marie,who is sort of virginal,
(51:24):
although much sexier when theyhave money, like with showing
cleavage and things.
Like she's fully buttoned up inthe beginning and very virginal,
but then like when they havelots of money, she shows a lot
more skin.
So I think there's stuff aboutsexuality in there that I don't
have time to unpack.
So, listeners, go watch themovie and come tell me your
(51:44):
thoughts about sex and what thismovie has to say.
Right.
It was yeah, yeah.
So let me quickly see if I canreflect back what we did talk
about.
So we talked a lot about race.
There's a lot to unpack aboutrace in this movie because it is
such a key foundational backdropfor it that this white man was
(52:07):
adapted by a black family.
It relies on stereotypes, bothof black folks and of white
folks.
And it's complicated.
Like, I think I love the way yousaid it, that it uses regressive
stereotypes in order to make aprogressive message.
But at the same time, like theregressive stereotypes, like,
can we do that?
(52:27):
Is that a thing?
Like, can we use regressivestereotypes in that way?
Like, it remains a question forme.
We talked a lot about money andconsumerism, and we map that to
Joseph Campbell's hero'sjourney, where the ordinary
world is sharecropper living inthe beginning in Mississippi,
(52:48):
and the extraordinary world isthis white world where he
actually, through dumb luck,becomes extraordinarily rich,
and then through just as dumbluck, in some ways, like loses
all of it.
And there's definitely a almostprescient critique of sort of
lifestyle creep and greed andconsumerism in this movie,
(53:13):
especially when we thenjuxtapose the way dad makes
money.
Whereas if Naven made moneythrough dumb luck, dad made
money through using a little bitof luck with smart strategy.
And that seems to be the rightway, I'm putting quotes around
that, to get rich, according tothis movie.
(53:34):
There were other like veryspecific topical commentary,
like the firing squad for earlywithdrawal at the bank or the
gas prices.
If you have to ask, it's toohigh for, you know, you can't
afford it.
We talked very briefly about thefact that this movie doesn't
pass Beckdale, but also Naven isjust the center of the universe
in this movie, and very fewpeople named male characters
(53:56):
talk about anything besidesNaven either.
We also talked about brieflyabout sort of comedy, Martin
kind of like having all of theselayers to comedy, some of which
are lost, the juxtaposition ofthe really good banjo player,
for instance, in his stand-upset.
But also, I think in this movie,some of this critique
(54:18):
potentially that was lost whilewe were busy laughing at him
holding a dog over his crotch.
And on that score, somehow weare feeling superior and
laughing at him in a way thatdoesn't feel mean, which is kind
(54:38):
of a remarkable needle tothread, and maybe also speaks to
Steve Martin's comedic genius.
Finally, we talked very brieflyabout sort of the context of the
late 70s and like folks wantingreally like escapist humor
because things had been so hard,and Steve Martin kind of giving
it to them.
I didn't even mention the factthat one of the screenwriters
(55:01):
was the guy who wrote Jaws, thatCarl Reiner was on this, that
this movie got rejected a coupletimes for Paramount, and then
Universal picks it up, or maybethe other way around, I don't
know.
But like, there's so much here.
You should go watch it.
What are you gonna bring me nexttime?
Uh oh no, next time we're gonnahave your friends.
SPEAKER_00 (55:17):
Next time, my my my good friend Joe Saul Sehai, who
is also my co-author on the bookStacked, is bringing us his deep
thoughts on the film WallStreet.
SPEAKER_01 (55:26):
So I am looking forward to that.
This show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon.
There's a link in the shownotes, or leave a positive
review so others can find us.
(55:47):
And of course, share the showwith your people.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
Incompotech.com.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
(56:10):
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
I do like feel like it's worth noting that the humor
relies on racial stereotypes.
It's sort of equal opportunity,and it definitely does so to
skewer whiteness or at leastwhite culture.
Right?
Like we are meant to uh see andbelieve that like the white
(00:21):
preferences that are coming outof Naven are worse.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's just
pop culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
(00:44):
about stupid shit.
I'm Tracy Guy Decker, and you'relistening to Deep Thoughts About
Stupid Shit, because pop cultureis still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1979 comedy classic The Jerkwith my sister, Emily Guy
(01:04):
Birkin, and with you.
Let's dive out.
My name for a second there,didn't you?
I almost called you Emily GuyDucker.
So I know you saw this moviebecause we watched it together
when we were kids, but tell mewhat's in your head about The
Jerk.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
Mostly snapshots.
So I remember I was born a poorblack child.
And I remember that.
I remember, you mean I'm gonnastay this color?
I remember that he makes like athing that goes on the bridge of
your glasses so to keep them.
Oh, so you don't you don't haveto touch the sides to keep them
(01:42):
up.
Because they're there, peopleend up being cross-eyed.
So he makes a huge amount ofmoney from that, but then
there's lawsuits because peoplebecome cross-eyed.
There's a point where he'sreally excited because he's in
the phone book.
And at the same time, there's aguy who's trying to kill him.
Yes.
You remember a lot.
(02:03):
Um you actually remember a lot.
And I think that's like I it'sjust it's snapshots.
And then I'm not gonna rememberher name, but that actress with
the curly hair is a loveinterest.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
Yes, who was his girlfriend at the time.
Her name was Brand Peters,that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
Yes.
So I remember her being in it.
And then I remember our dad,like when dad would laugh so
hard, he would be like gasping.
His infectious.
I remember him having thatreaction to this film, even
though, even by the time I waswatching it, he had seen it
multiple times.
(02:38):
He would still have thatreaction to it.
So tell me, why are we why arewe talking about the jerk today?
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
Well, it was on our list for exactly the reason you
just named that.
It was so like I remember dadloving the comedy.
And so that's kind of why it wason our list.
Why we're doing it now isbecause my friend Seth, who is a
regular listener, was like, youguys should do the jerk.
So so this one's for Seth.
And actually, he Seth made theargument that this is the
(03:05):
perfect movie for our showbecause it's deep thoughts about
stupid shit, and shit happens.
Like, there's lots of referencesto shit in the movie.
Like there's a bit about knowingthe difference between shit and
Cheyola, and there's like alittle kid wearing a t-shirt
that says bullshit who's kind ofimportant, and then his dog's
name is shithead.
So anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (03:25):
Well, and then and he's kind of stupid.
Characters.
So I mean the whole movie.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
Yeah.
So let me give you somepostcards from the destination,
and then I'll give you asynopsis.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Although you pretty much remember the postcard uh
because there's not much there.
I couldn't tell you how thosethings are connected, but okay.
SPEAKER_01 (03:49):
So my postcards from the destination, I was worried,
but this actually held up betterthan I expected.
It's not perfect, so I'm notsuggesting there's no problems,
but it actually held up a lotbetter than I expected.
So I'm gonna want to talk aboutcomedy and Steve Martin's comedy
in particular, because he hassort of a unique approach to
comedy, which has beendocumented.
People have written about it.
So I don't know that I'm gonnaadd anything new to that
(04:11):
conversation, but I do want tomention it.
And with you in particular, Iwant to talk about this movie's
critique of consumerism andabout and wealth and money
making.
And it seems to suggest thereare right ways to make money.
I'm putting quotes around rightways.
And so I want to talk about thata little bit.
We have to talk about race if wetalk about this movie, because
(04:32):
Steve Martin, who was 35 at thetime with prematurely gray hair,
begins this movie with, I wasborn a poor black child.
We have to talk about race.
I think we need to talk aboutsex as well, because there's
some interesting stuff.
He's very sexually naive andjust naive in general, and that
gets explored for laughs, ofcourse.
(04:54):
And then think speaking oflaughs, I want to talk a little
bit about like laughing atversus laughing with, which in
general I feel like we all agreelaughing at's not so great.
But this movie definitelyinvites us to laugh at Naven,
that's Steve Martin's character,even as we enjoy him.
So there's something reallyinteresting in the point of view
(05:15):
in that that somehow gives uspermission to laugh at him.
And then finally, I want tomaybe at least mention sort of
the social context into whichthis movie was born and this the
kind of comedy it is, whichwe've seen in other places, like
airplane comes to mind with thissort of gaga minute and like
what was happening in the late70s and early 80s in the US.
(05:37):
So I want to at least mentionthat.
So before we get there, let megive you a quick, I will do my
best to make it quick.
I'm not gonna go blow blah blow.
I will highlight a couple of keyscenes that are freaking
hilarious, just because I mightwant to come back to them when
we talk about the comedy stuff.
So the movie opens actually on acinema, a movie, and it sort of
(06:00):
pans over these people likesuper dressed up super nice,
like men of tuxedos and women ingowns, and then pans over to
this like back stairwell where acouple of unhoused folks are
lying around.
One of them is Steve Martin, whotalks directly to the camera and
says, I used to be somebody, Iused to have wealth and power
(06:22):
and everything, but thensomething happens.
And then he says, Huh?
You want to hear my story?
Okay.
It sounds like my dog.
And but he really does.
That's really how he that'sreally kind of how he sounds.
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
That's how Elbow sounded.
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
I know that's how my beagle sounded when I would talk
for him.
So he tells his story, and itstarts out, I was born a poor
black child.
And it's all in flashback.
And so there's this big blackfamily of sharecroppers, and
they're like singing and dancingon the porch, and there's Steve
Martin as Naven in overalls.
(07:00):
No rhythm, like not just likebad rhythm, like so off of
rhythm.
Like it's like hard to watch alittle bit.
It's Navyn's birthday, andthey're having a big meal, and
it's all it's sort ofstereotypical food.
Collard greens, cornbread.
Like that's what they're eating.
But they say it's Navyn'sbirthday.
(07:20):
So mama made his favorite meal,which is I don't remember what
the sandwich is, but it's somesort of sandwich on white bread
with mayonnaise and Twinkies.
And that's his favorite meal,and she made a special for his
birthday.
And everybody gives him gifts,and they're all like little
small tokens.
And he's sort of the tiny Tim ofthis family, even though he's a
35-year-old man and there areother children at the table.
(07:40):
Cause after he gets his gifts,he's like, Oh, thank you,
everybody.
God bless us, everyone.
And then he like runs off to bedand he's like crying.
So here's the big reveal.
Mama tells him, You're not ournatural-born son.
You were left on our porch, butwe raised you as our own.
And he's like, You mean I'mgonna stay this color?
(08:01):
Which is hilarious in themoment.
He decides to go off and see theworld because the gospel hour on
the radio ends and it just turnsoff, and now it's musac.
It's just like boring music.
And all of a sudden he can like,he has the.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Oh my goodness.
I remember I've never heardmusic like this before.
And it is like the most milktoast white bread music, music.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:24):
And he's like, if this is out there, what else is
out there?
And so that's how he decides togo see the world.
And he actually like can liketap his feet on rhythm and snap
his fingers on rhythm.
And so he's he's really excited.
So he goes off to see the worldand like so many gags to get
there.
In some ways, it's like aclassic, like road movie in that
(08:47):
sense.
So he has these adventures.
He ends up in in a gas stationowned by Jackie Mason, and he
ends up working for him andliving there as well.
And there are shenanigans at thegas station.
The phone book scene that youremember, like he's talking to
Jackie Mason's character whosename is like Harry Harot
Harotini or something.
(09:08):
I don't remember exactly what itis.
It doesn't matter.
He's talking to Jackie Mason'scharacter about something about
the gas station.
And then he's, oh my God, oh mygod, they're here, they're here,
they're here.
And it's like the delivery ofthe phone books, and he goes and
finds his name.
He's like, here it is on page,blah, blah, blah.
Like right there in black andwhite, Johnson, Naven, R.
I'm somebody now.
(09:28):
Thousands of people look at thisbook every day.
I'm somebody.
And then, like, the very nextscene is like some random dude,
a white dude, like randomlypointing to a thing in the phone
book.
Johnson, Naven R.
What a jerk.
I'm gonna kill.
Like, and he's a madman.
(09:49):
And in fact, the subtitles saymadman.
Like, that's the dude's likecharacter name.
So this guy goes and is liketrying to kill Naven with a
long-range rifle.
And this is one scene that Iwant to tell because it was so
funny.
He's standing there next to alike a pyramid of oil cans.
(10:12):
Naven is standing in the gasstation next to a pyramid of oil
cans that's on display, like forsale.
And the madman is shooting athim from the hills across the
street and misses Naven and hitsthe oil can.
And so it like springs a leakfrom the bullet hole.
And then it keeps happening.
And Naman's like, Harry, comelook at these cans.
They're defective.
(10:34):
And Harry knows what, like,realizes pretty quickly what's
happening and like points outthe man across the street, like
with the rifle.
SPEAKER_02 (10:42):
And Naaman's like, he hates cans.
And he keeps running todifferent parts of the gas
station to try and get awayfrom.
And there are cans everywhere.
It's so stupid.
It's so funny.
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
Oh God.
So I think in that same the themadman is trying to get a beat
on him through the scope of hisrifle, and he actually helps
this customer whose glasses keepfalling off.
This is before the the he hatescans.
The glasses keep coming off, andthe guy's like, damn these
glasses, because they keepfalling off.
(11:28):
And Nathan goes, I damn thee.
I damn thee.
And he points at the glass.
Anyway, he fashions a little, asyou remember, a little handle
that goes in the bridge of thenose.
And it's almost too far-fetchedthat this dim-witted man would
think to do this, except heexplains that he's like, it's
like the tire rod of the blahblah.
(11:50):
Like it's some automotiveconnection that made him think
of it.
So that he does, you're notputting pressure on the arms.
The man's name is Stan Fox, andhe's like super stoked about
this little handle.
Okay.
So running away from the madman,he actually drives away in a car
that doesn't have any, it hasthe wheels but no tires.
So he's driving on all fourrims.
(12:11):
And he drives down the road toget away from the madman who
gets in his own car and chaseshim.
And he ends up in a like behinda fence of a carnival.
And the sign says carnivalpersonnel only, which stops the
madman who stands at the gateand goes, He's not a carnival
personnel.
SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
But will not actually go in.
So there's honor among that end.
SPEAKER_01 (12:44):
I guess.
So we get the movie gives us anumber, a lot of exposition
through letters that Naven issending home to his parents or
to his whole family.
He's he's sending letters andlike little bits of money home,
like$2 here and 49 cents thereand whatever.
So we get some exposition thathe wrote to Mr.
whatever his name is, gasstation owner, Jackie Mason, to
(13:06):
say I could come back.
And Jackie Mason said, Don't bea putz.
You've already see the world,you've already seen me.
So he gets a job with thecarnival.
He's doing he's guessing weight.
And here's the one of the firstlike sort of money things beside
besides him sending money home.
He says that his boss comesover, he's a weight guesser, and
(13:29):
he says, Oh, I'm not very goodat this.
I've given away five pencils andthree things, and look, whatever
the prizes are that he's givenaway.
And all I've made is$15.
And the boss says, Naven, you'redoing great.
You took in$15 and you gave away50 cents worth of craft.
So that's$14.50 a profit for us.
(13:50):
And Nathan goes, Oh, it's aprofit game.
That takes the pressure off.
So and then he starts barkinglike, get your way, guests, win
some crap.
So we his barking getsinterrupted by motorcycle
(14:11):
daredevil, a woman, PattyBernstein.
And she jumps through a ring offire and he watches and he's
super excited.
And she's kind of abrasive, evenin this brief interaction with
her handlers.
Like she tosses her helmet atone of them, like really
aggressively.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Is this Bernadette Hitters or is this a no?
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
She's played by Caitlin Adams.
So Patty Bernstein, and she's soshe's and she like burps and
spits, like she's crass, and shelikes big makeup and like
purple, short purple hair, andthis like leather boustier
motorcycle daredevil.
So the next day, or sometime, Ithink it's the next day, she
(14:54):
sort of takes interest in himand is like flirting hard, like
takes a bite of his corn dog,and he's like, What about germs?
And she goes, put a rubber onit.
Anyway, she um makes him likeput his arms up and turn around
and like go like this, which islike a pelvic thrust.
And she's like, Okay, get on thebike.
(15:15):
And from a distance, somebodygoes, Don't hurt him.
He has to work tonight.
And she takes him back to hertrailer, which is filthy, like
dirty, like food wrapperseverywhere.
It's just a mess.
And he says something like, Youcan really tell a lot about a
person from how they live.
And I can tell that you're areally dirty person.
Anyway, they through exposition,we realize they develop a sexual
(15:38):
relationship.
And this is actually from mymemory, the family is reading a
letter and says, I can only sendyou this much money this week,
but I think I might be able tosend you more next week because
my friend Patty has promised mea blowjob.
I learned what that word meantbecause of this movie.
Blowjob.
So, and like the fam Navendoesn't know what it means.
The family doesn't know what itmeans, except his older brother
(16:00):
Taj, who's like trying not tolaugh.
Because the mom is, the dadsays, She must be a good girl,
or something like that.
And the mom's like, oh, blessher heart, or something like
that.
Oh man.
Oh my.
So next we see him.
He's actually at the carnivalrunning the little miniature
(16:23):
train.
And he finishes his ride and hesees a pretty girl.
That's Bernadette Peters.
She says, Oh no, have you seen alittle boy?
She's like calling for Billy,Billy.
And she says, Have you seen alittle blonde boy wearing a
t-shirt that says bullshit?
And he's like, No, I haven'tseen him.
And then we hear the traingoing.
Billy is like driving the littlemini train.
(16:44):
So he has to like chase afterhim and catch him and like
whatever.
And there's immediately we aremeant to see that there's
chemistry between the Bernadetteand Peters character and Navin.
And so, and there's this reallyweird exchange, but they end up
asking, like, he ends up askingher for a date.
Her name is Marie.
And they're supposed to meet thenext day at the midway.
(17:08):
Patty, the motorcycle daredevil,realizes what's happening and
she like threatens him and likedestroys the daisies he's picked
for her.
He goes and finds her anyway.
They have a little date thatgets interrupted by Patty, and
Patty says terrible things.
(17:29):
I don't know.
She just goes away.
So the next, because the next wesee, they are Navyn and Marie
are on the beach walking andsinging, and one of them is
playing a ukulele, I think.
I don't remember which.
Pretty sure it's Navin.
And then they end up at like acampfire and they're singing
this really sweet little song,like harmonizing.
It's actually a very like one ofthe only like sweet moments in
(17:52):
this film.
Which even that gets interruptedbecause they finish singing and
she pulls out a coronet, like atrumpet, and starts playing
there.
Which is so absurd.
And like at the end, shefinishes the cornet and he says,
I while you were playing justthen, I wished I had this
(18:12):
fantasy that I could go inthrough the bell of this cornet
and go all the way.
And he says the whole thingthrough the whole length and end
up on your lips.
And she's like, Well, why didn'tyou?
And he says, I didn't want toget spit on me.
So they end up together, andhe's totally crazy about her.
And she lets him know that hermom wants her to marry someone
(18:36):
rich, someone who has money.
We get this exposition whereshe's asleep and he's talking to
her.
He knows she's asleep, but he'stalking to her with this
hilarious, apparently ad-libbedthing where he's like, I know
we've only known each other forfour weeks and three days, but
to me it feels more like sixweeks and blah blah blah days
because the first day was likefive days, but the second day
was like three days.
SPEAKER_02 (18:55):
He does this whole thing about why it's different.
SPEAKER_01 (19:00):
Anyway, he says he's gonna, he's gonna propose to
her.
And so the next day he's in thetub talking to her in the other
room.
He's in this bubble bath, andhe's like, and he's singing this
little song about having pickedout a thermos for her, and he's
getting ready to ask her tomarry him, and she's like crying
(19:20):
and like writing a Dear Johnletter, which she slips under
the bathroom door and thenleaves.
And then he asks her to marryhim.
She's gone.
The dog, who I didn't even tellyou how he got the dog, but he
has a dog called Shithead.
And the dog barks in response tohis question.
He was like, Oh, you've made meso happy, as if the dog bark had
been her.
(19:41):
And he says, Get in here, comeget in the tub with me.
And so the dog jumps in the tubwith him.
And he's like, No, not you,shithead.
Where's Marie?
And he realizes that the dog hecan talk to the like the dog
barks and it's almost likelassie, and he thinks he knows
what the dog is saying.
And so he gets the letter, butit's all like smudged and runny
from the bathwater.
So he's reading it out loud andlike, I really remember this
(20:03):
part.
SPEAKER_02 (20:04):
It's hilarious.
So then he like gets out of thetub and he's like, good idea,
shithead.
And the next thing we see, he'slike walking through the
courtyard out of the apartments,holding the dog in front of his
genitals, calling for Marie.
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
And there's a woman like doing some yard work or
something with her little dog,like a like a little yappy dog.
SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
And as he walks past her, he picks up her dog and
covers his butt with it.
So he's got shit in the frontand this little dog.
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
Oh my god, I gotta get quicker.
I gotta get quicker.
It's just so funny.
So he's he's lost Marie.
The madman shows up again.
He's like, Oh god, not you.
And he's like running from themadman.
The guy finally catches him,catches up to him, like because
he hits a dead end, and he says,You have to sign for this.
And Naman's like, I have to signbefore you'll kill me.
(20:56):
The guy's like, Oh, I'm muchbetter now.
Now I'm a private investigator.
And he hands him a letter and itsays, Please come see me at this
address.
And he goes to see the guy, andhe doesn't even remember the
guy.
It's Stan Fox, the guy who hemade the glasses thing for.
This guy has put this thing intoproduction.
He calls it the OptiGrab, andhe's sold tons of them.
(21:18):
And he had told Navin that if hewas able to make money on it, he
would cut Navin in 50-50, sinceNavin was the one who invented
it.
So he says, here's the first250, and I'm sure there's more
where that came from.
So Navin goes to the bank andhe's super excited about this
$250.
And the banker opens theenvelope and looks at the check
and it's$250,000.
And the banker's like, You wantto cash this?
(21:40):
And Navin's like, well, maybeI'll take$50 and you can put the
other$200 in an account.
And then the banker's like, Yes,you know, he's like super
excited.
And then he realizes how muchmoney it is.
And then there's more, like hekeeps getting more money.
And then his he gets a phonecall from someone and he says,
Oh, Mrs.
Kimball, oh, you're Marie's mom.
(22:00):
Oh, you read about me in thepaper?
Yes, I'd love to know where sheis.
Well, that seems a little high.
Would you take 75?
So, like, Marie's mom calls andoffers to tell him where Marie
is if he pays her.
Yeah, gross.
So he's reunited with Marie,more exposition to his parents.
Our one luxury is live in butlerand housekeeper, but they're
(22:24):
still in this tiny littleapartment.
The butler's like, with thismuch money, sir, why don't you
buy a bigger house?
So then we get this bizarrescene.
I don't know if bizarre is theright word.
This one actually feels likesocial commentary.
He's there's a voiceover of hisletter to his parents.
Remember how I always used totell dad that I wanted, and it's
like this list of all theserooms and like absolutely
(22:46):
ridiculous.
Like an all-red billiard roomwith a life-size-stuffed camel
and like unbelievable things.
And he but he's saying it as ifhe's always wanted these things,
you know, like outdoor gardenswith S-shaped hedges and three
swimming pools.
Well, now I have that.
Just really, really bizarre andlike really extravagant.
Oh, there's another money momentwhere, again, in exposition, he
(23:09):
says, My butler's wife made anearly withdrawal from her bank
and had to pay a steep penalty.
And then we see the butlerlooking out the window, the wife
facing a firing squad.
And like we hear the gunshot.
So what?
So I mean, I think I think thatactually may be in context in
(23:30):
1979, is what that wasconsidering.
So Naven is living it up, likehe's so naive, and they are so
nouveau riche.
Like they are at a fancyrestaurant and he complains
about the snails on her foodwhen she ordered escargot.
And like, I don't want any moreof this old wine.
Bring me this year's wine.
I remember that scene, yes.
(23:52):
And then like they have a tenniscourt where they have these big
jugs, like water coolers of finewine and this like Dixie cup,
you know, one of those tubes,the Dixie cups you pull down,
but it's got crystal goblets init.
It's just so, oh my god, it's sofunny.
They're having a big party attheir house, they're in the
disco room, and then Naven's onTV.
So they ever be quiet, be quiet.
(24:13):
It's the interview.
So it's this interview whereNaven was being interviewed by
one of the news programs, andthey he gives the first answer
about what it's like to be amillionaire, and then they say,
We were gonna show you the wholeinterview, but breaking news.
And Carl Reiner, who is in factthe director of this movie, got
the OptiGrab and has the crosseyed.
And as a result of his like poordepth perception, he called cut
(24:36):
too late, and there was this bigcar accident, and these actors
would be alive, and so he'ssuing Naven R.
Johnson for$10 million.
And immediately all of hisfriends' friends, I'm putting
quotes around that word, leave.
And Bernadette Peters's Marie islike, I don't even care about
(24:57):
the money.
It's the stuff I'll miss.
So there's a very quick courtscene, and the judge finds him
guilty, the judge has crosseyes, the jury all have cross
eyes, and then so then we seehim like at his desk writing out
(25:18):
checks because the$10 million,but it was like almost 10
million plaintiffs.
So he's writing a check for$1.9to each of them.
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
So Marie comes in and I'm sorry, she's in you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
So Marie comes in and she's like, We've hit rock
bottom, and he's like, I haven'thit rock bottom.
And anyway, they like she'swearing her old dress, and they
have this argument, and then hedecides to leave.
He's like, I don't need you, Idon't need anything.
And then there's this hilariousscene that is in my memory that
comes up regularly.
All I need is this ashtray.
SPEAKER_02 (26:06):
This is all I need.
This ashtray and thispaddleball.
SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
This ashtray and this paddleball and this chair.
You know, and like, andapparently that was ad libbed,
which, like, damn, Steve, that'shilarious.
That is genius.
Which is funny because then itgives a very funny sight gag
where he's like wandering thestreets, like with this chair
and ashtray and paddleball andwhatever the heck he picked up
on his way out the door.
(26:30):
And he's like sitting on abench, like carrying this stuff.
And then a woman walks by with athermos that is like the one he
described in the song that hesang to her about picking out a
thermos, and you see him followthe woman and the woman come
back out with all of his stuff,and him come out with the
thermos.
So now we've caught up.
He's in the on the stairwell bythe cinema, and his family shows
(26:52):
up and they're like, Any of youheard an Avan R.
Johnson?
He's like, Hey, that's me.
His whole family, the wholesharecropper family, and Marie.
So as soon as he left, Mariecalled them and he's like, How
did you find us?
They were like, I don't know.
This is the first place welooked, which maybe is
convenient, or maybe I don'tknow.
I'm not sure if I need to unpackthat further.
But anyway, and it turns, andthen Taj, the older brother,
(27:16):
says, Turns out dad's afinancial genius.
And dad says, All I did, wait, Iwant to get this right because
it's you.
So dad says, All I did was takethe money you sent home and
embarked on a periodicinvestment in a no-load mutual
fund.
And then Taj says, he leveragedhis ass deep in soybeans and
cocoa futures.
So the family is now wealthy.
(27:39):
And Marie and Naven moved backto the Mississippi sharecropping
lands.
And he says, you know, therewere so many of us, the house
was too small, so we had to tearit down, even though we loved
it, and we built a new biggerone.
And like the scene like scrubsto a blank field and then to the
new house, which is like maybe20% larger than the old one and
(28:03):
just as run down.
I remember that part.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then they're all singing anddancing on the porch.
And Naven is actually able todance on rhythm now.
So there's so many gags that Ididn't mention.
Like I didn't even talk abouthow he got the dog who he's
gonna call lucky because hethought the dog was saving them
all from a fire, but there wasno fire, and so somebody else is
(28:26):
like, you shouldn't call thatdog lucky, you should call it
shithead.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there's just there's so manythat I missed, but that's the
like you actually rememberedthat it's rags to riches to rags
is the plot, and he's real dumb.
And so that's kind of so yeah, Imean, yeah, it actually very
(28:50):
sweet.
I think so.
I actually think part of theappeal of Naven, like I don't
have a strong like emotionalconnection to him, but I do find
him appealing and endearing.
And I think part of it is likemixed in with the naivete is a
certain degree of optimism andtrusting, right?
(29:15):
So he hates cans.
Or there's a scene where heactually ends up like hooking,
there's these credit cardthieves.
He realizes they're credit cardthieves, and it's really funny.
These three Latino dudes in thisjacked up, this like sort of
fancy car, and they've got liketons of purses in the car, and
they hand him a credit card andhe says, Okay, sure thing, Mrs.
(29:38):
Nussbaum, I'll fill you right.
Mrs.
Nussbaum?
And he goes, Oh, I'm Mr.
Nussbaum.
It's this Latino guy, you know?
And he's like, Okay, Mr.
Nussbaum, you know, and then herealizes it's a stolen credit
card, so he hooks the back oftheir car to the church that's
right next door, thinking he'slike got one over on them.
And then when they try then whenthey actually drive away, it
like pulls off the whole likesection of the church.
(30:00):
And interrupts a wedding.
So the groom is in the back ofthis thing that's being dragged
down the road.
Anyway, but with these guys,they ask, I don't remember, they
ask some sort of question.
He says, Oh, no, we have cash,but I keep it here because, you
know, you can't trust everyone.
So he's like telling these menwho we as the audience know are
(30:21):
not trustworthy about the moneythat he's got in his pocket.
And it's that kind of thing overand over again, where he just
this very trusting and veryoptimistic and sweet sort of,
even the like, I'll send youmore money next week because my
friend Patty's gonna give me ablood.
You know, like so, but he's verydim.
(30:42):
Like one of the very first gagsafter the white man who's been
adopted by a black family gag ishis dad's like, if you're gonna
go out on the road, I need toteach you something.
That's shit.
This is shinola.
Shit, shinola.
Yeah, dim.
So let me just get out of theway.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
This film doesn't pass the back tail test.
So Navin's mother and Mariedon't talk to each other.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
And Navin's mother and his sister, Alvi Alvira,
they do speak, but they speakabout Naven.
It's also true that though Navintalks to other people about
things besides about all kindsof things.
But no other two men who arenamed talked about anything
except Naven.
SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
Oh, okay.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
So I I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Anyway, center of this world's universe.
SPEAKER_01 (31:34):
He really is the center of this movie's universe.
So so that's like just get thatout of the way.
So I wanna actually start withthe race conversation, even
though that wasn't the firstpostcard I gave.
So I was really, really worriedsitting down, and it's not
perfect because it leans onstereotypes, right?
Like the black family is thesharecropper family, they're
(31:56):
eating cornbread and collardgreens, and they're singing pick
a bale of cotton.
Like that's the song thatthey're singing.
Like, so it very much leans onstereotypes.
At the same time, it does notpunch down.
Naven's family are possibly theonly truly like morally good
people in the whole movie.
And it leans on similarstereotypes about white people
(32:21):
with the sandwich on whitebread, and like Navin like runs
away from the table before heeats it.
So his brother says, Naven, I Iwrapped your sandwich in
cellophane just like you likedit.
And like the music being likewhite people music.
Like, so I'm not saying thatmakes it okay.
I do like feel like it's worthnoting that the humor relies on
(32:42):
racial stereotypes, and it's notjust in one direction.
Yeah, it's sort of equalopportunity, and it definitely
does so to skewer whiteness orat least white culture.
SPEAKER_00 (32:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
Right?
Like, we are meant to see andbelieve that like the white
preferences that are coming outof Naven are worse.
Like this, like really delicioussounding meal versus this white
bread sandwich with mayonnaise,like and the Twinkies like still
(33:15):
in the plastic.
Like where they so it's notpunching down with the
stereotypes.
I want to name that.
Also, because he sets himself upas I was born a poor black
child, and he continues toidentify that way.
There's a moment where thesereal estate con artists are
(33:36):
trying to convince him when he'srich, to convince him to invest
in this new development scheme.
And they want to assure him thatthey will keep the black folks
out.
And they say it in euphemisticways that he doesn't get.
So finally they use the N-word.
They say, We'll keep the N-wordout.
And he says, I am an N-word, andlike throws off his robe and
(33:57):
turns into this karate dude andbeats them all up one at a time.
SPEAKER_02 (34:03):
I have no memory.
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
It's like so there's a degree to which this I think
the comedy is the absurdism ofit.
But he uses that absurdism thenagain to like give racists their
comeubins, right?
Who sort of like here's thisvery white-looking dude who has
white tastes, who they think islike one of them.
(34:30):
I'm putting quotes around that.
And then he ends up beating themall up.
I mean, he also hurts his footwhen he tries to kick Iron Balls
McGinty in the crotch.
SPEAKER_00 (34:39):
But you know, it's a ridiculous movie.
So well, it's also the fact thatthe happy ending is they all end
up back living with his familyof origin.
With money.
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
With money.
So like it's almost like I thinkthere was one commentator, I'll
see if I can link, I'll try andfind it and link to the in the
show notes, like, who wants toclaim makes the argument that
Martin Steve Martin is soAerudite that in fact he had
like classic hero movies, herostories in the Joseph Cameron.
(35:12):
Like Odysseus.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And that's the return to theyes.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
My sister's just made a face.
SPEAKER_01 (35:22):
And then he was making reference to specific
classical heroes' journey.
There's a a degree to which sortof the other world that he
explores, if this is a JosephCampbell hero's journey, that
other world that he's exploringis the white world.
He doesn't interact with anyblack folks except for his
family.
So while he's on his adventure,he does not interact with black
(35:46):
folks at all.
And he has this through sheerluck, he has this big win, but
it's taken away from his j justas easily.
Oh, this that I I remember thiscommentator mentioned Odysseus
and and the Odyssey, but alsoJack Kerouac and another of the
(36:07):
beat poets on the road andanother one that I can't
remember.
Anyway, if it's the hero'sjourney, then the other world is
actually the white world, if youwill.
And it doesn't suit him, whichis interesting from this all
white production team.
SPEAKER_00 (36:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:25):
Right.
It's also interesting that,like, part of the gag in the
beginning in the extraordinaryworld in the hero's journey
framework, is this essentialismaround around raise, right?
He's been raised from infancywith this family, and yet his
(36:45):
taste preferences for what heeats, flavor to preferences, his
music preferences all seem to bedetermined by his genetics.
Racial genetics, which is thegag.
I mean, that's why it's funny.
Like it wouldn't be funny if hewere culturally black, having
been raised by a black family,because that's what we expect.
I don't there's something sortof interesting about that.
(37:07):
But then he had to go experiencethe white world, and now he has
rhythm.
He's dancing on the porch in thefinal scene.
I don't know that I haveanything else to say about that,
but like it's it's really likethere's a lot to unpick there.
SPEAKER_00 (37:20):
Speaking of the Odyssey, it's the Penelope
unpicking her uh her weaving.
Her weaving just because there'sthere's so much in there that
it's like it's in some ways veryprogressive and in some ways
very regressive, and yet in someways using regressive
stereotypes just make aprogressive point.
SPEAKER_01 (37:37):
And like, yes, exactly, exactly.
So let's stay with that, whatthe way you just described it,
and talk about money andconsumerism.
Because I feel like taken as awhole, this is a critique of
consumerism because Navyn andMarie are meant to be seen as
completely ridiculous with theway like we are we are meant to
feel superior to them and theirsort of nouveau riche existence,
(38:01):
you know, like sending back thesnails that are in the escargo
and even the the Dixie Cupcrystal goblets, you know.
But it isn't wealth itselfbecause dad made money on that
no load mutual fund.
And we're meant to admire that,right?
So there's something which isn'thard work, right?
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
That's a similar kind of like it's not luck, but
that is a similar kind of it'ssomething that you are able to
get into because of luck.
Because you can't invest in inthe stock market in mutual funds
if you don't have some money.
So the luck that the family had,that the father had was that
Navin sent money back.
(38:47):
So he had some extra money toinvest.
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
But that's not the message.
Luck is not the message fromthis movie.
SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
Well, and just what I'm saying is there's something
similar to them making money inthe stock market to Naven
falling into the opto grab.
SPEAKER_01 (39:03):
That may be the case in actuality.
I do not think that is themessage that our movie makers
are giving us.
I think there is something aboutsort of dumb luck versus smart
strategy.
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:15):
Yeah.
I think that's actually the sortof the juxtaposition that we are
meant to see between the twoways of making money.
SPEAKER_00 (39:22):
Well, and especially since so no load mutual fund,
all that means is that it's amutual fund that doesn't have
fees.
Okay.
All in on it was like soybeanand soy and cocoa futures.
Soy and cocoa futures.
So what that means is dad knowshis business because he's a
sharecropper, he knows farming,he knows those things, and so
you invest in what you know.
And so like he made intelligentdecisions with the extra money
(39:45):
that they had.
Having that money was luck.
And it was luck.
Because it it traced back toNathan.
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
Well, not all of it.
He'd been sending money from hisvery first job at the gas
station where he made a dollarten.
Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
But the actual investment, that's not luck.
That's about leveraging theknowledge that you have to make
your money grow.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
So the way you just said that, I mean, part of it
maybe is just reiterating thatNaven's not very smart.
unknown (40:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
Well, what knowledge does he have?
Right.
No, no, he doesn't.
He's he doesn't know thedifference between shit and
shinel.
SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
Right.
Right.
Literally.
Right.
Well, and then what does thefamily do with that money?
They build a bigger house, butit's like only a little bigger.
SPEAKER_01 (40:37):
Yeah, it's not the sort of extravagant, like they
are not guilty of lifestylecreep.
Right.
Like Naven and Marie had hugelifestyle creep.
And that's what I think thatscene with the voiceover.
Remember how I always used tochit-chat with dad about and
these ridiculous things thatthere is no way a chaircropper
son was chit-chatting with dadabout.
(40:59):
Yeah.
But the way he said it is he'sthat's I think that's how
consumerism and lifestyle creepworks, right?
We convince ourselves we'vealways wanted this thing that
like we do not need.
SPEAKER_00 (41:09):
Well, there's two aspects to it.
There's the thing that was anwhen with lifestyle creep, the
thing that was an occasionaltreat.
So for instance, I get I get mynails done like every three
weeks.
In my 20s, I did that when I wasin a wedding.
And so that was an occasionaltreat that I had to save up for,
or it was a special occasion.
(41:30):
Whereas once once you're makingmore money, it now becomes like,
no, no, no, no, I need this.
Right.
This is part of what I need now.
And so your brain can't let goof the idea of this is a need
when it was a treat or a wantfor a long time.
Right.
And then you can also kind ofretroactively like, well, I
always wanted this because like,right, look at it.
(41:52):
It's awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
The always wanted it is exactly what that that scene
does.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me come.
I we're I want to make sure weget time to talk about comedy
because I think there's a lothas been written about Steve
Martin and his approach tocomedy.
And the man is really smart andlike very learned, and like
actually, like apparentlyself-consciously, like took a
(42:17):
class in psychology about humorand decided to try something
different.
Right.
Um specifically for this movieor or as part of the this movie
as part of his trajectory fromhis stand-up and his SNL time.
What I read said that he readthat comedy works where you set
the audience up for anexpectation and then it like you
create tension and then yourelieve it with a punchline.
(42:39):
And he decided, I'm not gonna dothat.
Instead, I'm gonna let themdecide sort of what's funny.
Like, so without telling them.
And he also did a lot of like,there's a lot been written on
him about the way that hejuxtaposed things.
Like one of his most famousstand-up things was, you know,
the banjo gig gag, where he'slike dressed in this white suit
(42:59):
with a black tie with a GrouchoMarks nose and the arrow through
the skull and the pink bunnyears.
He's just absolutely ridiculous,and then plays the banjo.
And it's funny because he'sridiculous looking, but it's
also funny because he is a verygood banjo player.
So it's like a virtuoso banjoplayer wearing this ridiculous
stuff.
And so part of it is thejuxtaposition.
SPEAKER_00 (43:20):
It's really like Yo-Yo Ma showing up with an
arrow through his head.
SPEAKER_01 (43:23):
Kinda, yeah.
And that piece of it's wassometimes lost on folks, right?
Like so over the top.
But that sort of letting theaudience kind of find the
punchline is at least the what Iwas reading about, sort of his
kind of brand of comedy, atleast in the these early days in
the 70s and 80s.
And I think there's there's likemultiple layers.
(43:46):
Just like we like, I think wecould have keep kept talking
about like the race and thehero's journey and like how
those things all layer.
Like Martin is a master, Ithink, of that sort of like
surface level absurd.
You're laughing because he's gotbunny ears on, or whatever, like
this physical comedy.
He's holding a dog in front ofhis garage.
That's hilarious.
(44:08):
But then also these extralayers, which is really
fascinating in the context of1979.
Like Vietnam War is over, andlike Americans want escapist
comedy.
And so they get it in hisabsurdism.
But now, as we've been talkingjust in the past few minutes,
we're seeing like, and also, ifyou spend some time there,
(44:31):
there's really some interestinglike conversation about
consumerism.
I think the fact that Marie is,I mean, the fact that it's her
mother makes it okay for us tolike her anyway, but Marie's a
gold digger.
SPEAKER_00 (44:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:48):
And so, and that consumerism, and this like, it's
not the money I'll miss, it'sthe stuff, which is hilarious,
but also has a huge commentaryon consumerism.
And Marie comes around, right?
Like she comes around and shelike the moment he leaves,
apparently she goes and gets hisfamily to try and find him
because she cares about him.
(45:09):
It's complicated.
I I think I find that really,really interesting in this movie
and just in general, andthinking about what is funny and
what makes us laugh and sort ofthe different layers of it.
SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
It's also fascinating, just thinking
contextually, because it cameout in 1979, which I don't think
I knew exactly when it came out.
I knew I was a kid, but I wouldhave been a baby.
But this is before like the 80sgreed is good kind of like
consumerism.
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
It's almost prescient of that in 70s.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (45:43):
Yeah.
And so that is kind offascinating too, putting it in
that context of it's comingright before that.
Whereas in 79, Jimmy Carter wasstill president.
And I do think it's worthwhilelooking at like political forces
that are going on.
I've come to realize how much oflike specifically presidential
(46:04):
elections are pushback againstpolitical forces.
And so with Reagan being apushback against Jimmy Carter's
presidency and the kind ofpolitical forces that would have
a movie end with this the happyending being what it was, and
like a a uh commentary onconsumerism.
And then like in the 1980s, fuckyou, I am gonna be a
(46:26):
consumerist.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:28):
Though it's interesting, like that you name
that because in he works in agas station and there's this one
shot, there's a sign in thewindow that says gas prices.
If you have to ask, you can'tafford it.
So, like these single shots thatwere these like topical.
Yeah, you know?
Yeah.
We're running a little short ontime.
SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
Um, you did want to talk about like laughing at
Naven.
SPEAKER_01 (46:49):
Yeah, that's exactly where I was going.
Thank you.
So while we're talking aboutcomedy and what's funny, like
Naven is our hero in this hero'sjournal journey, but he is also
the butt of the joke.
And I'm not sure how to feelabout that.
Like, there's several momentswhere we see in the reactions of
(47:10):
those around him, Jackie Mason,his brother Taj, like we see
that other people see howridiculous he is, right?
Like Taj like can't stoplaughing at the, or you know, is
like trying to hold back hislaughter at the blowjob joke.
Jackie Mason, like about thephone book and at other moments,
is just like, like, I mean, thatJackie Mason had a hugely
(47:33):
expressive face, right?
He's like, oh, this guy.
Yeah.
Look at this punk over here.
SPEAKER_00 (47:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:38):
Yeah, exactly.
And so the audience is kind ofgiven permission, I think,
through those things to be like,oh, oh yeah, yeah, no, he really
is dumb.
And so we're given permission tofeel superior, which we have
talked about before thatAmericans really love that.
That's one of our favorite formsof humor.
Well, oh, I hadn't put thattogether yet.
We talked about that a couple oftimes in the airplane episode,
and then again, more recently, Ican't remember which episode.
(48:04):
But based on some studies, likeAmericans, yes, thank you.
Americans' favorite kind of formof comedy is to feel superior,
like we really enjoy that.
And so this movie definitelygives us that over and over and
over again with Nathan, who isalso our hero.
And I find that tension, like,like I'm judging myself a little
(48:27):
bit for it.
I'm just not sure where to putit.
Like, I laughed out loud a lotwatching this movie.
And they're defin like itworked.
I felt superior, you know, and Ienjoyed it.
And I'm like, hmm, Trace, that'snot on brand for you.
SPEAKER_00 (48:47):
One thing I you know, and I'm I I am thinking
about is like we're feelingsuperior to someone who is
relatively privileged.
I mean, like, yes, he was born apoor black child and all of
that, but he's not.
unknown (49:03):
I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (49:04):
And he's gonna be okay no matter what.
SPEAKER_01 (49:07):
I mean, I do think there maybe is something to the
subversion of the sort ofmiddle-aged.
I mean, he wasn't, he was 35,but with the gray hair, like the
sort of middle-aged, like adultwhite cis man, sort of in that
role that does feel somehow moreacceptable.
SPEAKER_00 (49:26):
Yeah, if this had been like even a white woman, I
don't think it would be, I thinkit would be a lot harder to
watch.
SPEAKER_03 (49:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (49:33):
If if it had been a woman who was born a poor, poor
black child.
SPEAKER_01 (49:37):
I suspect there is also something about Martin's
delivery and maybe the optimism,too, that I named initially, and
that sweetness that also makesit okay.
Because he's not suffering as aresult of our laughing at him.
He doesn't even know.
There's also a degree to whichlike the laughing at is a
(49:58):
laughing with because he'salways happy.
SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
Or I will say, so the first time I saw it, and I
can't tell you how old I was,but I was young enough that I
definitely understood why he wasexcited about having his name in
the phone book.
I would not have been that big,but you know how like kids are,
we're like, it's my name, wherepeople can see it.
(50:23):
So, and I remember knowing thatit was funny that he was excited
about it.
And for me, it was the way thathe because Steve Martin is such
a physical comedian, it's sobig.
But I also knew it was supposedto be not that big a deal.
And yet little like five orsix-year-old me would have been
like, but it is, it is a bigdeal.
(50:43):
I get it, I get why he'sexcited.
And like the fact that I did notfeel any tension in like I
should feel weird about the factthat I would be just as excited.
Well, not just as excited, butlike I didn't feel any tension
about that.
So there's no, there's likethere's not meanness in the
making fun of it.
SPEAKER_01 (51:02):
I think that's right.
There's not meanness.
I think that's right.
I think that's right.
So I didn't even get to talkabout sex because I do think
there's some things to unpackwith Patty Bernstein, who I
don't know why they gave her aJewish name, who was the
motorcycle, like very crass.
And like the movie does someslut shaming of her, I think.
Yeah.
Versus Bernadette Peters Marie,who is sort of virginal,
(51:24):
although much sexier when theyhave money, like with showing
cleavage and things.
Like she's fully buttoned up inthe beginning and very virginal,
but then like when they havelots of money, she shows a lot
more skin.
So I think there's stuff aboutsexuality in there that I don't
have time to unpack.
So, listeners, go watch themovie and come tell me your
(51:44):
thoughts about sex and what thismovie has to say.
Right.
It was yeah, yeah.
So let me quickly see if I canreflect back what we did talk
about.
So we talked a lot about race.
There's a lot to unpack aboutrace in this movie because it is
such a key foundational backdropfor it that this white man was
(52:07):
adapted by a black family.
It relies on stereotypes, bothof black folks and of white
folks.
And it's complicated.
Like, I think I love the way yousaid it, that it uses regressive
stereotypes in order to make aprogressive message.
But at the same time, like theregressive stereotypes, like,
can we do that?
(52:27):
Is that a thing?
Like, can we use regressivestereotypes in that way?
Like, it remains a question forme.
We talked a lot about money andconsumerism, and we map that to
Joseph Campbell's hero'sjourney, where the ordinary
world is sharecropper living inthe beginning in Mississippi,
(52:48):
and the extraordinary world isthis white world where he
actually, through dumb luck,becomes extraordinarily rich,
and then through just as dumbluck, in some ways, like loses
all of it.
And there's definitely a almostprescient critique of sort of
lifestyle creep and greed andconsumerism in this movie,
(53:13):
especially when we thenjuxtapose the way dad makes
money.
Whereas if Naven made moneythrough dumb luck, dad made
money through using a little bitof luck with smart strategy.
And that seems to be the rightway, I'm putting quotes around
that, to get rich, according tothis movie.
(53:34):
There were other like veryspecific topical commentary,
like the firing squad for earlywithdrawal at the bank or the
gas prices.
If you have to ask, it's toohigh for, you know, you can't
afford it.
We talked very briefly about thefact that this movie doesn't
pass Beckdale, but also Naven isjust the center of the universe
in this movie, and very fewpeople named male characters
(53:56):
talk about anything besidesNaven either.
We also talked about brieflyabout sort of comedy, Martin
kind of like having all of theselayers to comedy, some of which
are lost, the juxtaposition ofthe really good banjo player,
for instance, in his stand-upset.
But also, I think in this movie,some of this critique
(54:18):
potentially that was lost whilewe were busy laughing at him
holding a dog over his crotch.
And on that score, somehow weare feeling superior and
laughing at him in a way thatdoesn't feel mean, which is kind
(54:38):
of a remarkable needle tothread, and maybe also speaks to
Steve Martin's comedic genius.
Finally, we talked very brieflyabout sort of the context of the
late 70s and like folks wantingreally like escapist humor
because things had been so hard,and Steve Martin kind of giving
it to them.
I didn't even mention the factthat one of the screenwriters
(55:01):
was the guy who wrote Jaws, thatCarl Reiner was on this, that
this movie got rejected a coupletimes for Paramount, and then
Universal picks it up, or maybethe other way around, I don't
know.
But like, there's so much here.
You should go watch it.
What are you gonna bring me nexttime?
Uh oh no, next time we're gonnahave your friends.
SPEAKER_00 (55:17):
Next time, my my my good friend Joe Saul Sehai, who
is also my co-author on the bookStacked, is bringing us his deep
thoughts on the film WallStreet.
SPEAKER_01 (55:26):
So I am looking forward to that.
This show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon.
There's a link in the shownotes, or leave a positive
review so others can find us.
(55:47):
And of course, share the showwith your people.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
Incompotech.com.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
(56:10):
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
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