January 27, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of 'Defeat is Optional' Ronnie shares his story into the reality behind his Nike contract. Discover how, despite being ranked number two in the world and the third fastest man in the 60-meter dash, he never made six figures with Nike. This candid episode covers key lessons in contract negotiations, the impact of NCAA finals, and the challenges faced when switching sponsorships from Nike to Adidas. With insights on mental resilience and the importance of 'thinking smarter,' this episode is a must-listen for aspiring athletes. Don't miss the compelling journey of victories, frustrations, and invaluable tips when trying to go pro and get the bag!
00:00 Introduction: Shocking Nike Contract Details
00:26 Welcome to Defeat is Optional
01:03 Journey from Nike to Adidas
02:17 Lessons from Contract Negotiations
04:50 Challenges and Realities of Professional Track
21:28 Final Thoughts and Q&A
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ronnie Baker (00:00):
What if I told you as an NCAA champion and
collegiate record holder, mycontract with Nike wasn't even a
hundred thousand dollars.
Would you believe me if afterbeing ranked number two in the
world and becoming the thirdfastest man in the 60 meter dash
that I never made six figureswith Nike.
I'm going to talk to you guysabout contract negotiations,
(00:20):
what I learned from switchingfrom Nike to Adidas and how I
felt slighted by Nike all in theprocess.
Welcome to defeat is optional.
The podcast where I'll give youthe best mental tips to unlock
your mind so you can improveyour performance on race day.
If you've ever felt stuck,doubted your abilities or
struggled to bring your best onrace day, you're in the right
(00:41):
place.
This isn't just about trainingharder.
It's about thinking smarter.
Here we'll break down the mentalbarriers that hold you back and
build the mindset that propelsyou to victory because in your
journey to greatness, Defeat isnever the final answer.
It's a choice.
So let's get to work.
Remember defeat is optional isnot just a podcast.
(01:02):
It's a way of life.
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (01:03):
How did I end up at Nike in the first place, and
then how did I end up withAdidas?
So, I don't know if you guyssaw, but the story that I posted
earlier basically just said,what if you, what if I told you
that I did not make 100, 000base contract with Nike when I
was signed with them for fiveyears?
Being a collegiate recordholder, being an NCAA champion,
(01:24):
my initial contract was lessthan 100, 000 and even after I
became the third fastest man inthe world and was ranked number
two, I never got paid more thansix figures from Nike,
Ronnie Baker (01:37):
So kind
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (01:39):
of crazy.
we're going to dive into thestory.
nine years ago is when I signedmy first contract.
That was in 2017.
I graduated from TCU in 2016.
So, how did that all transpire?
Right.
So as I in my senior year.
I had won the NCAA championshipindoors.
I broke the collegiate recordthat was in, I believe it was in
(02:01):
Alabama at the crossplex.
Crazy story.
I actually started my collegiatecareer at that track.
I ran my first track meet atthat track and did my last
indoor track meet at that track,which is really cool.
So anyway, I knew that I had thepotential to go pro.
Now here's the lesson.
One of the first lessons that Ilearned when it comes to
(02:22):
professional track and field.
That if you want to become aprofessional that's sponsored,
you need to be in an NCAA final.
that is the first, lesson that Ilearned.
If you're not in the NCAA final,it's going to be very hard for
you to get sponsored as aprofessional track and field
athlete.
Now you can go and runafterwards.
However, if you want money fromthese big shoe companies, you
(02:44):
need to be in an NCAA final.
That's the first lesson and notjust any NCAA final, right?
You need to be in.
An outdoor NCAA final, becausethe whole thing with when I was
into, when I went intonegotiations, my senior year,
basically after my seniorseason, after the NCAA
championships, there wasn'tOlympic games that year.
(03:07):
And I actually went to theOlympic trials.
I did not make the Olympic team.
However, when I first got newsand talked to Nike,
Ronnie Baker (03:16):
the
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (03:16):
number that they were offering me was a good six
finger contract.
But when I did not make The NCAA100 meter final, that number
plummeted, and it was because Idid not make the final.
So the people that get thecontracts that get the most
money are the people that eitherwin or in that final, they get
(03:37):
looked at.
They're, they're in thatspotlight.
I was not.
So my stock just plummeted.
from there on, You know, I wasgoing back and forth with and I
did not actually sign myprofessional contract.
I didn't sign it in 2016 after Igot, or after my last race as a
collegiate athlete, I did notsign my Nike contract until
(03:59):
February of the next year.
So luckily I still had asemester left to school because
if I didn't, I was going to haveto pay rent.
Ronnie Baker (04:09):
work a job.
I
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (04:10):
I was going to have to find a way to pay my
rent.
I mean, everyone knows that ifyou've been in a situation where
you can't pay your rent or you,you know, that you're doing
everything that you can to payyour rent and you know, you're
still going to be come up short.
Like that's where I was at onepoint because.
I hadn't signed a contract.
I was graduating that December,and after that, after that
(04:31):
graduation, like, TCU wasn'tgoing to be fitting the bills me
to live, to be an adult, and Ihadn't signed a contract yet, so
I was literally filling outpotentially to go work, and then
train, because I knew that Icould succeed at the next level,
but I was going to have to worka job in order to do it.
So we were going back and forth,and, this is the reason why it
(04:52):
took so long.
One, because Nike has a, theyhad a bunch of different
athletes that they're trying tofigure out contracts with, and
then they were going to try tofigure out what money they had
left for me, basically because,I wasn't again in the NCAA
final, so I wasn't getting firstpick of you know, collegiate
athletes that are getting moneybut also, you know, you have all
the other top athletes that arealready running, so they had to
(05:13):
figure out those contracts too,because it was the end of the
year.
Now, another big thing was thatanother lesson that I learned
here.
Is that the first lesson is thatif you want to be a
professional, you need it andyou want to get like money and
you want to get sponsored by ashoe company, you need to be an
NCAA final.
You need to be in an outdoorNCAA final, not an indoor one,
because I had one NCAA titleindoors and broke a collegiate
(05:34):
record, but for these shoecompanies, they don't really
care about indoors.
They don't care unless you'rebreaking a world record.
They do not care.
You know, you do well indoors.
They pat you on the back andthey say, good job, like keep it
pushing.
Let's see what you can dooutdoors.
Because at the end of the day,my coach always says this.
He says.
There is no indoor olympics andhe's right.
(05:56):
There's no indoor olympics.
So the companies they don't careabout that So that was lesson
one Lesson lesson two really incontract negotiations is that
these shoe companies They willespecially Nike I know for sure
Nike has People that they pay,they have coaches that they pay
(06:16):
around the country and you guysprobably know them.
If you look at any group thathas a ton of Nike athletes,
guess what?
Nike's probably paying thatcertain someone.
And so what happened is when Iwas coming out of school, they
wanted me to move coaches and gotrain with the people that
they're paying.
That makes total sense.
But, you know, I had gone from ahigh school athlete that was
(06:39):
running 10, seven consistentlyto.
A collegiate senior who wasrunning nine nines consistently.
I had run nine 91 a couple oftimes.
And so the progression that Ihad, I was just like, I don't
want to leave my coach who I'vebeen with for four years,
trained with for four years.
One, two NCAA titles with, andgotten faster every single year.
(07:00):
That just doesn't make sense forme to move switch coaches.
So I didn't want to switchcoaches and they wanted me to go
out to California.
They wanted me to go.
To Florida, but I just didn'twant to leave my coach.
So that was kind of the runaround was that they wanted me
to move and I didn't.
So we were going back and forthwith that.
(07:20):
I ended up signing my firstcontract guys for, 60, 60 K with
my first professional contract.
Which honestly, for, a singleguy coming out of college,
that's, That's good money.
That's pretty good money.
I had more money than I ever hadbefore.
And to be honest with you, like,
Ronnie Baker (07:40):
I
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (07:40):
I, it was good.
Like, it was good.
I had a good time.
I, pay my bills, pay my rent.
I, was pretty set.
Okay.
So that was the, are some of thelessons I learned,
Ronnie Baker (07:51):
if you
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (07:51):
go pro, most likely they're going to want you
to move because they havecoaches that they pay.
That's, that's kind of standard.
And then, you know, If you'renot in the NCAA final, that your
stock is going to drop, whichmeans you're negotiating power
drops too.
So if you're not running fast,you're negotiating power.
It it's out the window.
And that's where I was.
I never actually made an NCAAhundred meter in my four years
(08:14):
at TCU.
So.
That was a little bit harsh, butHey, it is what it is.
So that's how I ended up withNike.
Now my contract with Nike, I, Iwas going to show you guys the
details, but, just so you know,I protect myself.
I don't think that Nike can doanything, but I'm not trying to
get sued by Nike.
So either way, I'm just going totell details.
(08:37):
I.
My contract was for three yearswith what's called an option
year.
Now option actually a two yearoption.
So an option year, all an optionyear is.
Is that Nike can say after thethree years that they were
initially with me, they couldsay, Hey, we're going to
reevaluate where we believe youare.
And we're going to decide ifwe're going to take an option.
(08:57):
The option year is basicallylike we have two extra years on
the table that we can have, likeyou can be our athlete, but we
have the right to say, we don'twant you or not.
Right.
That's kind of what an optionyear is.
And typically when you haveoption years it kind of protects
the company a little bit,because for me, I.
Did really well in 2018.
I was ranked number two in theworld, but behind their number
(09:18):
one guy, which was ChristianColeman.
And you know, because I was onthe option year coming out of
2019 You know, I had nonegotiation power because one,
had crappy 2019 season, but evenif I had a really good one with
the option years, it's reallyhard to negotiate.
they take the option year andyou really don't have any
negotiations.
It's not, it's not a time torenegotiate your contract.
(09:41):
So you kind of just are lockedinto what you already have.
Now, after my 2018 season, I didget a bump.
In my pay and I went up to, Iwas making 90 K a year because
of the bonuses that I had justfrom, you know, basically
running fast.
I think I had a 30, 000performance bonus because I was
ranked number two.
Boom.
So now my base contract went upto 90 K and that's basically
(10:03):
where I stayed for the next twoyears.
Ronnie Baker (10:05):
So
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (10:06):
I felt like for me that.
I was
Ronnie Baker (10:10):
underpaid
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (10:10):
and I think that most people here and most people
on the track and underpaid youknow, I saw the guys that I was
running against and beating on aregular basis getting paid
boatloads more money than I was,and here I was, you know,
working my butt off and beatingthose guys.
So for me it was really hard tojustify like where I was at and
(10:31):
knowing that I was worth more.
Okay.
And it's not like I was entitledto that.
Like I knew I wasn't justsitting around doing nothing.
Like I was actually working mybutt off and actually performing
to that level.
So I think there's a difference.
A lot of people get into thisthing where they feel like
they're owed something or they,they deserve this type of money
or whatever the case may be.
(10:52):
And most of the times when youare evaluating yourself, you
overshoot, and I may have been,I knew how hard I was working.
I knew what I knew the Okay, sohere's another lesson.
I learned is because after the2021 Olympics, so I was with
Nike for five years, they tookthe two year option.
(11:12):
So that means I was locked infor five years, no matter what.
At the same contract price.
Now, after 2021, I went to theOlympics.
I made my first outdoorchampionship team.
I placed fifth in the Olympics.
And I think that that was theOlympics that Nike felt like if
I was going to do or beanything, it was going to be in
that one, basically, because2016 was my first Olympic
(11:36):
trials.
I was coming out of college.
They figured, Hey, this one'sprobably not going to be the one
that he pops off at, and that'sfine.
We're really paying him for.
You know, the next one, whichwas 2020.
So I actually made that and itwas great.
I felt like, okay, I had areally good season.
I ran nine 83.
I'm definitely, I was ranked topfive, I believe that year in the
(11:59):
a hundred meters.
And so I felt like, okay, I've,I've definitely worked and
earned my keep as far as what Ifeel like I should be paid now.
Right.
And You know, that's one thingfor me to believe that, but my,
my sponsors gotta believe thatas So
Ronnie Baker (12:16):
all in all,
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (12:17):
we went into contract negotiation.
Now this is how it works.
when you're, when you finish acontract you cannot.
And you're a free agent.
Technically, there's no optionhere.
You know that, Hey, you know, Ican go shop around to these
other shoe companies.
Now you can't actually talk toanybody because of their, the
clauses in the contract.
(12:38):
You can't talk to anybody untilDecember 15th, I believe is the
date, which sucks.
Because, December 15th is theend of the year.
And a lot of these companies aredoing their deals early So that
they can, you know, forbudgeting purposes, you know,
they don't want to go into thenext year having to figure out
(13:00):
contracts.
So, you know, December 15th iskind of the day where it's like,
all right, now I can officiallytalk to whoever I want to talk
to.
So basically after that day, myagent starts reaching out You
know other companies seeingwho's interested and pretty much
there was no bites, you know at28 years old Made the olympic
final ran 983 Apparently nobodywanted me which was crazy
(13:23):
because I felt like you knowafter that year, you know making
olympic final That should be theyear where I should you know,
this is going to be my secondquote unquote contract It should
be a little bit bigger nowhere's the biggest thing that I
learned from this part ofgetting this contract with
adidas is that You Shoecompanies, they do not care what
you've already done.
(13:44):
They don't care what you'vedone.
They pay you based on what, likewhat they think you're going to
do.
That's literally how they payyou.
They don't pay you on all theaccolades that you've
accumulated.
They don't pay you on all theraces you've won.
They don't pay you on how fastyou've run.
They pay you on what do we seethis person's foreseeable future
as, and that's how they pay you.
(14:06):
So that is one of the biggestthings.
Like, if they don't see thatthey're, you're gonna be
valuable to them in the next twoto three years racing, Or at the
next Olympics or whatever thebasically the Olympics they they
use the Olympics as the thegauge if they don't feel like
you're gonna be successful atthe Olympics, then they're like,
hey, buddy, you know, we're notgoing to give you you're not
(14:27):
going to give you this this orthis, you know, they did offer
me something.
Going into the 22 2022 season.
Now the same problem we ran intothe same problem though, when I
first signed with him aftercollege is that they wanted me
to move coaches.
they felt like.
You know, I hadn't gotten itdone with my coach and to, to an
extent I will, I will say this,like I hadn't gotten any you
(14:50):
know, I'd been hurt a lot of theyears I did get a bronze medal
in the indoors, but I wasn'tagain, these companies care
about outdoor times, outdoormedals, outdoor competitions.
And so I wasn't, I didn't haveany medals.
that was the biggest, I thinkfor them, that was the biggest,
thing of like, okay, well,Ronnie's produced, he's done
really well, but he hasn't wonanything.
(15:12):
And so I totally understandthat.
Like for me,
Ronnie Baker (15:17):
that.
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (15:18):
was, that's one of the biggest, that's one of
the biggest drawbacks is nothaving one of those.
anyway, going into contractnegotiations, they offered me,
Way more money this time,however, they wanted me, to
move.
The first place they wanted meto move was to Jamaica and I, I
just, I couldn't bring myselfto, well, my wife at the time
(15:38):
was with our first child.
I had been in this, the housethat I was in, in Texas for over
five years, and I would have toleave my coach, who I'd
basically been training with forthe last, at this point,
would've been 11, almost no, itwould have been about 10 years.
So I would have to leave mycoach of 10 years who I've
(16:01):
gotten better with every singleyear.
I would have to move to Jamaica.
It's just, it would have been sodifferent.
And then I would have to move mypregnant wife there, have my
baby in It would have just been.
It would have been a lot for meat the time.
So,
Ronnie Baker (16:18):
so
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (16:18):
yeah, And that, that was just not going to
happen.
So I, I told them no on thatAlthough they offered me like a
Ronnie Baker (16:25):
boatload more money
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (16:28):
well beyond six figures.
I said, no, I turned it downbecause at the end of the day,
like the money was just notworth it at that point.
And then they wanted me to moveto Florida.
with Dennis Mitchell.
Mitchell.
love Dennis, but I just didn'twant to.
I didn't want to move thereeither, so I didn't want to
leave my coach like I wascommitted.
I'm committed to my coach.
I have really good relationshipwith him.
For a lot of time, And a lot ofthe times, like I have been very
(16:53):
injury prone.
So a lot of the times I wouldjust be injured or something
like that.
But it never, whenever I washealthy, I always ran super
well.
So as long as I could stayhealthy, that was like a big
thing for me.
But anyway
Ronnie Baker (17:03):
they
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (17:03):
offered me a little over a hundred K.
After I said I was gonna staywith my coach, which for me, it
just, it wasn't enough,especially with the guys that I
was running against.
I was like, I know whateverybody else is getting paid.
Like, they're my ears to theground.
And, I was like, I don't knowwhat I'm gonna do.
But at the end of the day, I waslike, Push my agent like, Hey,
we need to find somebody that'sgoing to give me some money
because at the end of the day,if not, I'm going to be forced
(17:25):
to take this contract again thatI don't really want to be in.
And it's not that I didn't wantto be with Nike.
It was just that I felt like Ishould have been paid more and I
did not want to move across thecountry at that point in my
life.
And so, yeah, so.
Negotiations, my agent wastrying to figure out, you know,
how he get another deal wasn'thappening.
(17:48):
Long story short.
I had a conversation with my nowagent about Adidas, right?
And, Know, I told my old agent Iwas like, Hey, I'm not committed
to anything, but I'm going tohave conversations.
So had a conversation with them.
They brought back a number thatWas well within what I believe
(18:11):
that, I should have been paidAnd, pretty much from there, you
know, it was a hard decisionbecause I was going to have step
away from the agent that I'vebeen with for five years that
we'd developed really goodfriendship and relationship with
however, it was to the pointwhere like, I needed, I knew
that this was going to probablybe my last contract and I needed
it to be a big one, especiallyjust with how hard I've worked.
(18:33):
Like I'm not going to run trackforever.
that is, that was basically howthat transpired.
I ended up signing thatcontract, worked with a new
agent, got, basically got thatcontract and that contract,
because what happens withcontract negotiations is that
you The company that you're withtypically will put inside the
contract that they have what'scalled a first right of refusal
(18:53):
and the first right of refusal.
All it means is that whateveroffer that you get from another
they have the right to look atthat offer and then either match
that offer or decline that Andso whenever.
Ronnie Baker (19:09):
And
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (19:10):
you know, obviously if they come back and
match that offer, that's a greatthing because then the company
that Cynthia offer over eithergoes up or, you know, the, or
you take the, take the one thatthey, that they matched or if
they go higher, whatever.
So it kind of gets into a littlebidding war, which is cool.
Ronnie Baker (19:28):
That
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (19:28):
that number got sent over to Nike and basically
they have, they, in the, in thecontract, there's 10 days, they
have 10 days to and in 10 days.
They didn't respond.
And so I just, I, I talked abouthow I felt slighted.
I felt slighted because I feltlike, man, first of all, you
know, outside of Fred coming upinto the hundred and getting a
silver medal you know, I wasthere, I was the next guy.
(19:51):
And so I was just like, likethey didn't feel like I was
worth that amount of money, butalso they just didn't really
want to sign me for the next,for another four years.
And so, you know, someone thatI, the company that I felt like,
Hey, I'd done a lot for, youwell for again, They don't care
about what you have done.
(20:11):
They care about what you'regoing to do.
And so yeah, man, that's, that'sbasically how that transpired.
Ended up running one more meet,which was the Millrose games in
2022, which, oh my gosh, Got sosick at.
I remember I went to, I liketrying different food.
And it's not that I have nevereaten but this was two days
(20:35):
before the meet, I'm in NewYork, so I went to go get some
Indian food, and Dude, it wasjust, I just got so sick, But it
was only like a day thing.
It was just like, I kind of likeI got food poisoning and then
the next day I was fine, butobviously I was still feeling
it.
So I had a day to kind of likerecoup.
And the next day I ran, I stillran six 50 something.
That was the, that was the racewhere it was like the big
(20:57):
drawback between TrayvonChristian Coleman.
I was there.
It was, it was a good meet.
But no one was talking about me.
I got third.
So I felt like I could probablycould have won that if I was
healthy, you know, if I wasn'tsick.
But props to those guys, man.
It was a, those, that was a funrace.
But either way, that was thelast time I ran in Nike because
after that, they never respondedafter those 10 days.
(21:19):
And I ended up signing that,that deal with Adidas.
And I've been with Adidas eversince, since, 2022.
So.
Those were just, I mean, man,when I think about, when I look
back on just contractnegotiations and some of the
lessons I learned, man, one ofthe big things, it's like a lot
of people ask me how to go pro.
And the biggest thing, man, islike, you have to one, just run
(21:42):
fast.
Like everyone's trying to figureout, like even kids now they're
trying to figure out how theycan be pro by without running
fast, that there's no way youcan do it.
There's no, you're not going toget.
A name, image, and likenessdeal.
You're not gonna get a dealbecause you're, you're famous on
Instagram or you do cool stuff,like.
(22:02):
You got to go run fast.
Like that's it.
If people get paid, they runfast.
And then the cool stuff that youget to do because you run fast
happens after that.
But you got to run fast.
And if you want to be talkingabout getting a big deal or shoe
contract, like you need to be anNCAA final and that NCAA final
needs to be an outdoor NCAAfinal.
If you want a really big one,you need to place in the top
(22:23):
three.
You know, when you sit down andyou negotiate a contract, you
need to negotiate the right.
Bonuses.
You need to negotiate.
You know, for me, I didn't havein my contract, I did not have
any indoor bonuses.
So like all the fast times I ranindoors, I didn't get paid for
them because it just wasn't inmy contract.
(22:43):
And so some people have that inthe contract.
Some people don't.
I didn't.
So, you know, as far as I didrun, you know, it didn't matter.
You know, so that's a big thing.
I'd say that it's harder to gopro in a world championship or
Olympic year as well, becausetypically if you are running
well at the NCAA level, youknow, if you don't win the NCAA
(23:06):
title, you're And you're likemaybe fourth or fifth.
That's still good.
However, if you're in from the US and it's an Olympic or world
championship year, thenegotiations for a contract
probably don't start until afterthe which is hard because they
want to see how you, how youstack up against the
professionals, because that'swhat you're going to be doing.
(23:26):
You're going to be runningagainst the professionals every
single week.
So they want to see how, what doyou perform?
You know, do you fold?
Do you choke?
Do you persevere?
I feel like that's it's kind oflike a.
Yeah.
The chopping block or a provingground is USA trials for those
years.
I feel like it's harder to make,to get contracts because
typically if you don't do, ifyou do well at the NCAAs or you
do kind of mid you're in themiddle of the pack and then you
(23:48):
go into the USAs and you don'tdo well, I feel like your stock
drops even more because youknow, now you didn't make the
team or you didn't perform wellenough.
So now they're kind of lookingat you like You know, how are
they going to, how are they,again, how are they going to
perform in the next couple ofyears?
Cause that's how they pay you.
They pay you based on what theybelieve you're And then just
being aware that, you know,you're, they're going to,
(24:09):
depending on who you're signingwith, you're going to probably
want you to move coaches, moveareas, which is fine, but you
just have to be okay with thatand, and comfortable with it and
Ronnie Baker (24:19):
those are some
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (24:20):
yeah, man, that's, those are some of the
big things that I've learned,man, if you guys have any
questions, I will take somequestions real quick just about
that whole scenario, but that'sreally how I ended up with them,
you know, I just felt like, hey,I wasn't gonna get paid what I
wanted like what I wanted wasNike, and that's totally fine,
you know, God made a way andopened a door for me to be able
(24:41):
to be with Adidas for a longtime James Stokes, what's good,
my guy?
He said, What would you havedone differently knowing what,
you know, if I knew what Iwould, I knew now I would
probably like I said earlier,I'd probably put some, stuff,
some stipulations in there formy indoor stuff, because I did
run really well as indoors andpotentially, you know, negotiate
(25:02):
whether I could have bonusesinto my indoor contracts, like
for my indoor running whichtypically does not happen again,
because there is no indoorOlympics, but I could have
probably made a couple, Coupleof dollars doing that.
So yeah, that was, that wouldhave been one of my biggest
things.
That would have that would havebeen my biggest thing.
(25:23):
Let me see if there's any otherquestions, Someone said, are you
going to start indoors?
Yeah.
So I'm going to be starting myindoor season January 29th is
the first.
Do you think switching shoebrands has changed how you
perform?
I don't think so.
Speed.
I think that for me, one of mybiggest challenges is coming
back from the Olympics and justall the mental stuff that I had
(25:46):
to go through with overcomingjust the disappointment from the
2021 Olympics was really hard.
I talked about that.
I've talked about that on a lotof my podcasts.
I've talked about that on herein my lives.
But I think that that's was, hasbeen something that I've been
dealing with and coming out of.
I don't think it's necessarilythe shoe brand or, or anything
with the shoe.
But I think that for me, it wasmore mental.
(26:08):
The last couple of years havebeen more mental than anything
and just getting in the rightheadspace to do well because I,
because I believe that You don'tjust lose talent out of nowhere.
That's what I believe.
And so I knew, you know, a lotof people, when they have bad
seasons, they switch coaches.
They find someone new becausewhatever the program they're
doing isn't working.
But I knew the program workedbecause I'd run fast.
(26:30):
I knew the program worked.
So it was I knew it was me.
I wasn't gonna blame anybodyelse.
Like, I took full responsibilityMatico says, Do you think your
agent was the problem when youhad bad deals?
Because seems Like, you got abetter contract ever changing
agents Well, I wouldn't say myagent was bad.
I think that sometimes dependingon where you are at, because
(26:50):
track and field, I feel likethere's literally track and
field agents that are stillagents that have been agents for
like 50 plus years.
So I think that what that saysis that there, there aren't a
lot of new ones, meaning that.
The relationships that theagents have, they've had for
years and years and years.
So I think that there, wheneveryou sign with a specific agent,
(27:12):
especially in the track andfield world, they already have
connections to certain shoe Solike, if you sign with someone,
they most likely can get you anew balance or a Puma deal, but
they probably won't be able toget you an Adidas You know, it,
it just depends because therelationships are very different
across, you know, differentagents.
So I wouldn't say that my agentwas bad.
I just think that connectionswere.
(27:32):
Connections were just different.
Um,
Ronnie Baker (27:35):
Tino
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (27:37):
says, do you negotiate the terms yourself or
is it all through your agent?
Well, typically, I mean, you,you, you, the, the contracts, a
lot of the contracts are veryblanket contracts, meaning they
don't differ.
I feel like a lot from, fromathlete to athlete.
I think that there's sometimesthat you can put some special
things in there for like bigbonuses if you want.
(27:58):
But you know, and I think what,I think the difference, I think
Is that like, everyone probablyhas a world record bonus in
their contract.
The difference is how much is ityou know, mine might be
different than someone else'smine might be lower than someone
else's.
Who knows?
So that's kind of how thatworks.
But as far as negotiations Theagent does a lot of that I feel
(28:19):
like if you, if you have somespecial requests, you obviously
can run that by your agent, butyou know, that's, that's kind of
how that works.
I feel like your agent does alot of that.
And because again, because theagents have.
Very long lasting andrelationships with these
companies.
They kind of like go into thesenegotiations, kind of knowing
what they're going to puttogether.
(28:40):
And I feel like if you wantedsomething different than you'd
probably get asked for it.
Maybe that's something that Iwould do now that I know better.
But Yeah.
I mean, you get to look over thecontract before you sign it.
No one forces you to do it.
So you get to, you get to lookover everything and sign it
beforehand.
So if you don't like something,you just say, Hey, I don't like
this.
How can we change it?
(29:01):
And then you, that's how thenegotiation continues to go on.
How do signature shoes work withrunning shoe deals?
there's not very many peoplethat have their own running
shoe.
And to be honest with you, like,Allison Felix, they made a shoe
for Allison Felix with Nike, butI mean, they, she was the most,
she has the most medals of anyathlete, I think.
(29:22):
And track and field history.
And they didn't do that untillike, she was about to like
retire probably three years.
They made like this shoe and itwouldn't even have her name on
it or anything.
It was just like, they made thisshoe for her to run in.
But again, that's why AlisonFelix made her own shoe.
So I don't think that they dothat a lot of times.
I think that was more of a, Imean, Michael Johnson has his
(29:42):
own shoe.
Yeah.
But there was Michael Johnsonback in the day.
He was like the best runner toever do anything.
He wrote two world records.
So.
You know, break a world record.
Maybe you get one.
So but yeah, man, I am gonna hopoff here.
I really appreciate you guyshanging in with me.
and this is probably the mostviewership we've had talked
about money contracts, all kindsof things.
(30:04):
It's been really cool.
I will tell you that there ismoney in track and field.
People always say that there isnot money in track and field.
There's money in track andfield.
Yeah, I've made well over amillion dollars as a track and
field.
athlete.
I can probably say that.
A lot of it has come from myperformances and how well I've
done, but there's money in trackand field.
(30:24):
Now, there's not millions andmillions and millions of dollars
like there is in basketball andfootball, but there is enough
money if you run well enough towhere you can set yourself up,
you can have a nice home, youcan buy a nice car, you can set
yourself, set your life up towhere you're at.
You know, the next few years aregoing to look good for you.
If you invest your money, right.
(30:45):
And do the right things with it.
That is, that's what I'll tellyou Cause everyone always
complains about, it's funnybecause the top people, the
people that make the most moneycomplain about there not being
money in track and field in thetrack and field space.
So there's money there.
There's lots of money.
You just have to run really,really well.
Right.
It's about what you focus on.
So, all right guys, tomorrow, Iwill see you guys tomorrow at 6
(31:08):
PM.
We're doing a question andanswer.
So if you guys have questionsthat you're asking right now,
then I'm not going to get tobring them to the next one.
And I will, you know, I'llbasically answer any questions
that you have.
I will answer this last one atthe bottom of the synergy says,
can you advocate for yourself?
you can advocate for yourself,but I feel like it's not really
advantageous, especially if youdon't know what you're doing.
Like if you're, I mean, comingout of college and you don't
(31:30):
know what you're doing, probablynot the best.
And also again, because there'sthis, these deep root of
relationships with thesecompanies and these agents, I
feel like sometimes they don'ttake you serious as an athlete
doing it on your own.
Ronnie Baker (31:44):
they'll
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (31:44):
find ways to like potentially just screw you over.
You know, So I wouldn't, Iwouldn't recommend doing that.
I always have a professionaldoing that with you.
You know, that way they can be avoice and they can be your
voice.
But anyway, I love you guys.
I will see you guys tomorrow at6 PM.
We'll do a question and answer.
So bring your questions.
I will talk to y'all tomorrow.
(32:06):
Peace.
What if I told you as an NCAA champion and
collegiate record holder, mycontract with Nike wasn't even a
hundred thousand dollars.
Would you believe me if afterbeing ranked number two in the
world and becoming the thirdfastest man in the 60 meter dash
that I never made six figureswith Nike.
I'm going to talk to you guysabout contract negotiations,
(00:20):
what I learned from switchingfrom Nike to Adidas and how I
felt slighted by Nike all in theprocess.
Welcome to defeat is optional.
The podcast where I'll give youthe best mental tips to unlock
your mind so you can improveyour performance on race day.
If you've ever felt stuck,doubted your abilities or
struggled to bring your best onrace day, you're in the right
(00:41):
place.
This isn't just about trainingharder.
It's about thinking smarter.
Here we'll break down the mentalbarriers that hold you back and
build the mindset that propelsyou to victory because in your
journey to greatness, Defeat isnever the final answer.
It's a choice.
So let's get to work.
Remember defeat is optional isnot just a podcast.
(01:02):
It's a way of life.
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (01:03):
How did I end up at Nike in the first place, and
then how did I end up withAdidas?
So, I don't know if you guyssaw, but the story that I posted
earlier basically just said,what if you, what if I told you
that I did not make 100, 000base contract with Nike when I
was signed with them for fiveyears?
Being a collegiate recordholder, being an NCAA champion,
(01:24):
my initial contract was lessthan 100, 000 and even after I
became the third fastest man inthe world and was ranked number
two, I never got paid more thansix figures from Nike,
Ronnie Baker (01:37):
So kind
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (01:39):
of crazy.
we're going to dive into thestory.
nine years ago is when I signedmy first contract.
That was in 2017.
I graduated from TCU in 2016.
So, how did that all transpire?
Right.
So as I in my senior year.
I had won the NCAA championshipindoors.
I broke the collegiate recordthat was in, I believe it was in
(02:01):
Alabama at the crossplex.
Crazy story.
I actually started my collegiatecareer at that track.
I ran my first track meet atthat track and did my last
indoor track meet at that track,which is really cool.
So anyway, I knew that I had thepotential to go pro.
Now here's the lesson.
One of the first lessons that Ilearned when it comes to
(02:22):
professional track and field.
That if you want to become aprofessional that's sponsored,
you need to be in an NCAA final.
that is the first, lesson that Ilearned.
If you're not in the NCAA final,it's going to be very hard for
you to get sponsored as aprofessional track and field
athlete.
Now you can go and runafterwards.
However, if you want money fromthese big shoe companies, you
(02:44):
need to be in an NCAA final.
That's the first lesson and notjust any NCAA final, right?
You need to be in.
An outdoor NCAA final, becausethe whole thing with when I was
into, when I went intonegotiations, my senior year,
basically after my seniorseason, after the NCAA
championships, there wasn'tOlympic games that year.
(03:07):
And I actually went to theOlympic trials.
I did not make the Olympic team.
However, when I first got newsand talked to Nike,
Ronnie Baker (03:16):
the
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (03:16):
number that they were offering me was a good six
finger contract.
But when I did not make The NCAA100 meter final, that number
plummeted, and it was because Idid not make the final.
So the people that get thecontracts that get the most
money are the people that eitherwin or in that final, they get
(03:37):
looked at.
They're, they're in thatspotlight.
I was not.
So my stock just plummeted.
from there on, You know, I wasgoing back and forth with and I
did not actually sign myprofessional contract.
I didn't sign it in 2016 after Igot, or after my last race as a
collegiate athlete, I did notsign my Nike contract until
(03:59):
February of the next year.
So luckily I still had asemester left to school because
if I didn't, I was going to haveto pay rent.
Ronnie Baker (04:09):
work a job.
I
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (04:10):
I was going to have to find a way to pay my
rent.
I mean, everyone knows that ifyou've been in a situation where
you can't pay your rent or you,you know, that you're doing
everything that you can to payyour rent and you know, you're
still going to be come up short.
Like that's where I was at onepoint because.
I hadn't signed a contract.
I was graduating that December,and after that, after that
(04:31):
graduation, like, TCU wasn'tgoing to be fitting the bills me
to live, to be an adult, and Ihadn't signed a contract yet, so
I was literally filling outpotentially to go work, and then
train, because I knew that Icould succeed at the next level,
but I was going to have to worka job in order to do it.
So we were going back and forth,and, this is the reason why it
(04:52):
took so long.
One, because Nike has a, theyhad a bunch of different
athletes that they're trying tofigure out contracts with, and
then they were going to try tofigure out what money they had
left for me, basically because,I wasn't again in the NCAA
final, so I wasn't getting firstpick of you know, collegiate
athletes that are getting moneybut also, you know, you have all
the other top athletes that arealready running, so they had to
(05:13):
figure out those contracts too,because it was the end of the
year.
Now, another big thing was thatanother lesson that I learned
here.
Is that the first lesson is thatif you want to be a
professional, you need it andyou want to get like money and
you want to get sponsored by ashoe company, you need to be an
NCAA final.
You need to be in an outdoorNCAA final, not an indoor one,
because I had one NCAA titleindoors and broke a collegiate
(05:34):
record, but for these shoecompanies, they don't really
care about indoors.
They don't care unless you'rebreaking a world record.
They do not care.
You know, you do well indoors.
They pat you on the back andthey say, good job, like keep it
pushing.
Let's see what you can dooutdoors.
Because at the end of the day,my coach always says this.
He says.
There is no indoor olympics andhe's right.
(05:56):
There's no indoor olympics.
So the companies they don't careabout that So that was lesson
one Lesson lesson two really incontract negotiations is that
these shoe companies They willespecially Nike I know for sure
Nike has People that they pay,they have coaches that they pay
(06:16):
around the country and you guysprobably know them.
If you look at any group thathas a ton of Nike athletes,
guess what?
Nike's probably paying thatcertain someone.
And so what happened is when Iwas coming out of school, they
wanted me to move coaches and gotrain with the people that
they're paying.
That makes total sense.
But, you know, I had gone from ahigh school athlete that was
(06:39):
running 10, seven consistentlyto.
A collegiate senior who wasrunning nine nines consistently.
I had run nine 91 a couple oftimes.
And so the progression that Ihad, I was just like, I don't
want to leave my coach who I'vebeen with for four years,
trained with for four years.
One, two NCAA titles with, andgotten faster every single year.
(07:00):
That just doesn't make sense forme to move switch coaches.
So I didn't want to switchcoaches and they wanted me to go
out to California.
They wanted me to go.
To Florida, but I just didn'twant to leave my coach.
So that was kind of the runaround was that they wanted me
to move and I didn't.
So we were going back and forthwith that.
(07:20):
I ended up signing my firstcontract guys for, 60, 60 K with
my first professional contract.
Which honestly, for, a singleguy coming out of college,
that's, That's good money.
That's pretty good money.
I had more money than I ever hadbefore.
And to be honest with you, like,
Ronnie Baker (07:40):
I
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (07:40):
I, it was good.
Like, it was good.
I had a good time.
I, pay my bills, pay my rent.
I, was pretty set.
Okay.
So that was the, are some of thelessons I learned,
Ronnie Baker (07:51):
if you
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (07:51):
go pro, most likely they're going to want you
to move because they havecoaches that they pay.
That's, that's kind of standard.
And then, you know, If you'renot in the NCAA final, that your
stock is going to drop, whichmeans you're negotiating power
drops too.
So if you're not running fast,you're negotiating power.
It it's out the window.
And that's where I was.
I never actually made an NCAAhundred meter in my four years
(08:14):
at TCU.
So.
That was a little bit harsh, butHey, it is what it is.
So that's how I ended up withNike.
Now my contract with Nike, I, Iwas going to show you guys the
details, but, just so you know,I protect myself.
I don't think that Nike can doanything, but I'm not trying to
get sued by Nike.
So either way, I'm just going totell details.
(08:37):
I.
My contract was for three yearswith what's called an option
year.
Now option actually a two yearoption.
So an option year, all an optionyear is.
Is that Nike can say after thethree years that they were
initially with me, they couldsay, Hey, we're going to
reevaluate where we believe youare.
And we're going to decide ifwe're going to take an option.
(08:57):
The option year is basicallylike we have two extra years on
the table that we can have, likeyou can be our athlete, but we
have the right to say, we don'twant you or not.
Right.
That's kind of what an optionyear is.
And typically when you haveoption years it kind of protects
the company a little bit,because for me, I.
Did really well in 2018.
I was ranked number two in theworld, but behind their number
(09:18):
one guy, which was ChristianColeman.
And you know, because I was onthe option year coming out of
2019 You know, I had nonegotiation power because one,
had crappy 2019 season, but evenif I had a really good one with
the option years, it's reallyhard to negotiate.
they take the option year andyou really don't have any
negotiations.
It's not, it's not a time torenegotiate your contract.
(09:41):
So you kind of just are lockedinto what you already have.
Now, after my 2018 season, I didget a bump.
In my pay and I went up to, Iwas making 90 K a year because
of the bonuses that I had justfrom, you know, basically
running fast.
I think I had a 30, 000performance bonus because I was
ranked number two.
Boom.
So now my base contract went upto 90 K and that's basically
(10:03):
where I stayed for the next twoyears.
Ronnie Baker (10:05):
So
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (10:06):
I felt like for me that.
I was
Ronnie Baker (10:10):
underpaid
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (10:10):
and I think that most people here and most people
on the track and underpaid youknow, I saw the guys that I was
running against and beating on aregular basis getting paid
boatloads more money than I was,and here I was, you know,
working my butt off and beatingthose guys.
So for me it was really hard tojustify like where I was at and
(10:31):
knowing that I was worth more.
Okay.
And it's not like I was entitledto that.
Like I knew I wasn't justsitting around doing nothing.
Like I was actually working mybutt off and actually performing
to that level.
So I think there's a difference.
A lot of people get into thisthing where they feel like
they're owed something or they,they deserve this type of money
or whatever the case may be.
(10:52):
And most of the times when youare evaluating yourself, you
overshoot, and I may have been,I knew how hard I was working.
I knew what I knew the Okay, sohere's another lesson.
I learned is because after the2021 Olympics, so I was with
Nike for five years, they tookthe two year option.
(11:12):
So that means I was locked infor five years, no matter what.
At the same contract price.
Now, after 2021, I went to theOlympics.
I made my first outdoorchampionship team.
I placed fifth in the Olympics.
And I think that that was theOlympics that Nike felt like if
I was going to do or beanything, it was going to be in
that one, basically, because2016 was my first Olympic
(11:36):
trials.
I was coming out of college.
They figured, Hey, this one'sprobably not going to be the one
that he pops off at, and that'sfine.
We're really paying him for.
You know, the next one, whichwas 2020.
So I actually made that and itwas great.
I felt like, okay, I had areally good season.
I ran nine 83.
I'm definitely, I was ranked topfive, I believe that year in the
(11:59):
a hundred meters.
And so I felt like, okay, I've,I've definitely worked and
earned my keep as far as what Ifeel like I should be paid now.
Right.
And You know, that's one thingfor me to believe that, but my,
my sponsors gotta believe thatas So
Ronnie Baker (12:16):
all in all,
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (12:17):
we went into contract negotiation.
Now this is how it works.
when you're, when you finish acontract you cannot.
And you're a free agent.
Technically, there's no optionhere.
You know that, Hey, you know, Ican go shop around to these
other shoe companies.
Now you can't actually talk toanybody because of their, the
clauses in the contract.
(12:38):
You can't talk to anybody untilDecember 15th, I believe is the
date, which sucks.
Because, December 15th is theend of the year.
And a lot of these companies aredoing their deals early So that
they can, you know, forbudgeting purposes, you know,
they don't want to go into thenext year having to figure out
(13:00):
contracts.
So, you know, December 15th iskind of the day where it's like,
all right, now I can officiallytalk to whoever I want to talk
to.
So basically after that day, myagent starts reaching out You
know other companies seeingwho's interested and pretty much
there was no bites, you know at28 years old Made the olympic
final ran 983 Apparently nobodywanted me which was crazy
(13:23):
because I felt like you knowafter that year, you know making
olympic final That should be theyear where I should you know,
this is going to be my secondquote unquote contract It should
be a little bit bigger nowhere's the biggest thing that I
learned from this part ofgetting this contract with
adidas is that You Shoecompanies, they do not care what
you've already done.
(13:44):
They don't care what you'vedone.
They pay you based on what, likewhat they think you're going to
do.
That's literally how they payyou.
They don't pay you on all theaccolades that you've
accumulated.
They don't pay you on all theraces you've won.
They don't pay you on how fastyou've run.
They pay you on what do we seethis person's foreseeable future
as, and that's how they pay you.
(14:06):
So that is one of the biggestthings.
Like, if they don't see thatthey're, you're gonna be
valuable to them in the next twoto three years racing, Or at the
next Olympics or whatever thebasically the Olympics they they
use the Olympics as the thegauge if they don't feel like
you're gonna be successful atthe Olympics, then they're like,
hey, buddy, you know, we're notgoing to give you you're not
(14:27):
going to give you this this orthis, you know, they did offer
me something.
Going into the 22 2022 season.
Now the same problem we ran intothe same problem though, when I
first signed with him aftercollege is that they wanted me
to move coaches.
they felt like.
You know, I hadn't gotten itdone with my coach and to, to an
extent I will, I will say this,like I hadn't gotten any you
(14:50):
know, I'd been hurt a lot of theyears I did get a bronze medal
in the indoors, but I wasn'tagain, these companies care
about outdoor times, outdoormedals, outdoor competitions.
And so I wasn't, I didn't haveany medals.
that was the biggest, I thinkfor them, that was the biggest,
thing of like, okay, well,Ronnie's produced, he's done
really well, but he hasn't wonanything.
(15:12):
And so I totally understandthat.
Like for me,
Ronnie Baker (15:17):
that.
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (15:18):
was, that's one of the biggest, that's one of
the biggest drawbacks is nothaving one of those.
anyway, going into contractnegotiations, they offered me,
Way more money this time,however, they wanted me, to
move.
The first place they wanted meto move was to Jamaica and I, I
just, I couldn't bring myselfto, well, my wife at the time
(15:38):
was with our first child.
I had been in this, the housethat I was in, in Texas for over
five years, and I would have toleave my coach, who I'd
basically been training with forthe last, at this point,
would've been 11, almost no, itwould have been about 10 years.
So I would have to leave mycoach of 10 years who I've
(16:01):
gotten better with every singleyear.
I would have to move to Jamaica.
It's just, it would have been sodifferent.
And then I would have to move mypregnant wife there, have my
baby in It would have just been.
It would have been a lot for meat the time.
So,
Ronnie Baker (16:18):
so
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (16:18):
yeah, And that, that was just not going to
happen.
So I, I told them no on thatAlthough they offered me like a
Ronnie Baker (16:25):
boatload more money
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (16:28):
well beyond six figures.
I said, no, I turned it downbecause at the end of the day,
like the money was just notworth it at that point.
And then they wanted me to moveto Florida.
with Dennis Mitchell.
Mitchell.
love Dennis, but I just didn'twant to.
I didn't want to move thereeither, so I didn't want to
leave my coach like I wascommitted.
I'm committed to my coach.
I have really good relationshipwith him.
For a lot of time, And a lot ofthe times, like I have been very
(16:53):
injury prone.
So a lot of the times I wouldjust be injured or something
like that.
But it never, whenever I washealthy, I always ran super
well.
So as long as I could stayhealthy, that was like a big
thing for me.
But anyway
Ronnie Baker (17:03):
they
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (17:03):
offered me a little over a hundred K.
After I said I was gonna staywith my coach, which for me, it
just, it wasn't enough,especially with the guys that I
was running against.
I was like, I know whateverybody else is getting paid.
Like, they're my ears to theground.
And, I was like, I don't knowwhat I'm gonna do.
But at the end of the day, I waslike, Push my agent like, Hey,
we need to find somebody that'sgoing to give me some money
because at the end of the day,if not, I'm going to be forced
(17:25):
to take this contract again thatI don't really want to be in.
And it's not that I didn't wantto be with Nike.
It was just that I felt like Ishould have been paid more and I
did not want to move across thecountry at that point in my
life.
And so, yeah, so.
Negotiations, my agent wastrying to figure out, you know,
how he get another deal wasn'thappening.
(17:48):
Long story short.
I had a conversation with my nowagent about Adidas, right?
And, Know, I told my old agent Iwas like, Hey, I'm not committed
to anything, but I'm going tohave conversations.
So had a conversation with them.
They brought back a number thatWas well within what I believe
(18:11):
that, I should have been paidAnd, pretty much from there, you
know, it was a hard decisionbecause I was going to have step
away from the agent that I'vebeen with for five years that
we'd developed really goodfriendship and relationship with
however, it was to the pointwhere like, I needed, I knew
that this was going to probablybe my last contract and I needed
it to be a big one, especiallyjust with how hard I've worked.
(18:33):
Like I'm not going to run trackforever.
that is, that was basically howthat transpired.
I ended up signing thatcontract, worked with a new
agent, got, basically got thatcontract and that contract,
because what happens withcontract negotiations is that
you The company that you're withtypically will put inside the
contract that they have what'scalled a first right of refusal
(18:53):
and the first right of refusal.
All it means is that whateveroffer that you get from another
they have the right to look atthat offer and then either match
that offer or decline that Andso whenever.
Ronnie Baker (19:09):
And
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (19:10):
you know, obviously if they come back and
match that offer, that's a greatthing because then the company
that Cynthia offer over eithergoes up or, you know, the, or
you take the, take the one thatthey, that they matched or if
they go higher, whatever.
So it kind of gets into a littlebidding war, which is cool.
Ronnie Baker (19:28):
That
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (19:28):
that number got sent over to Nike and basically
they have, they, in the, in thecontract, there's 10 days, they
have 10 days to and in 10 days.
They didn't respond.
And so I just, I, I talked abouthow I felt slighted.
I felt slighted because I feltlike, man, first of all, you
know, outside of Fred coming upinto the hundred and getting a
silver medal you know, I wasthere, I was the next guy.
(19:51):
And so I was just like, likethey didn't feel like I was
worth that amount of money, butalso they just didn't really
want to sign me for the next,for another four years.
And so, you know, someone thatI, the company that I felt like,
Hey, I'd done a lot for, youwell for again, They don't care
about what you have done.
(20:11):
They care about what you'regoing to do.
And so yeah, man, that's, that'sbasically how that transpired.
Ended up running one more meet,which was the Millrose games in
2022, which, oh my gosh, Got sosick at.
I remember I went to, I liketrying different food.
And it's not that I have nevereaten but this was two days
(20:35):
before the meet, I'm in NewYork, so I went to go get some
Indian food, and Dude, it wasjust, I just got so sick, But it
was only like a day thing.
It was just like, I kind of likeI got food poisoning and then
the next day I was fine, butobviously I was still feeling
it.
So I had a day to kind of likerecoup.
And the next day I ran, I stillran six 50 something.
That was the, that was the racewhere it was like the big
(20:57):
drawback between TrayvonChristian Coleman.
I was there.
It was, it was a good meet.
But no one was talking about me.
I got third.
So I felt like I could probablycould have won that if I was
healthy, you know, if I wasn'tsick.
But props to those guys, man.
It was a, those, that was a funrace.
But either way, that was thelast time I ran in Nike because
after that, they never respondedafter those 10 days.
(21:19):
And I ended up signing that,that deal with Adidas.
And I've been with Adidas eversince, since, 2022.
So.
Those were just, I mean, man,when I think about, when I look
back on just contractnegotiations and some of the
lessons I learned, man, one ofthe big things, it's like a lot
of people ask me how to go pro.
And the biggest thing, man, islike, you have to one, just run
(21:42):
fast.
Like everyone's trying to figureout, like even kids now they're
trying to figure out how theycan be pro by without running
fast, that there's no way youcan do it.
There's no, you're not going toget.
A name, image, and likenessdeal.
You're not gonna get a dealbecause you're, you're famous on
Instagram or you do cool stuff,like.
(22:02):
You got to go run fast.
Like that's it.
If people get paid, they runfast.
And then the cool stuff that youget to do because you run fast
happens after that.
But you got to run fast.
And if you want to be talkingabout getting a big deal or shoe
contract, like you need to be anNCAA final and that NCAA final
needs to be an outdoor NCAAfinal.
If you want a really big one,you need to place in the top
(22:23):
three.
You know, when you sit down andyou negotiate a contract, you
need to negotiate the right.
Bonuses.
You need to negotiate.
You know, for me, I didn't havein my contract, I did not have
any indoor bonuses.
So like all the fast times I ranindoors, I didn't get paid for
them because it just wasn't inmy contract.
(22:43):
And so some people have that inthe contract.
Some people don't.
I didn't.
So, you know, as far as I didrun, you know, it didn't matter.
You know, so that's a big thing.
I'd say that it's harder to gopro in a world championship or
Olympic year as well, becausetypically if you are running
well at the NCAA level, youknow, if you don't win the NCAA
(23:06):
title, you're And you're likemaybe fourth or fifth.
That's still good.
However, if you're in from the US and it's an Olympic or world
championship year, thenegotiations for a contract
probably don't start until afterthe which is hard because they
want to see how you, how youstack up against the
professionals, because that'swhat you're going to be doing.
(23:26):
You're going to be runningagainst the professionals every
single week.
So they want to see how, what doyou perform?
You know, do you fold?
Do you choke?
Do you persevere?
I feel like that's it's kind oflike a.
Yeah.
The chopping block or a provingground is USA trials for those
years.
I feel like it's harder to make,to get contracts because
typically if you don't do, ifyou do well at the NCAAs or you
do kind of mid you're in themiddle of the pack and then you
(23:48):
go into the USAs and you don'tdo well, I feel like your stock
drops even more because youknow, now you didn't make the
team or you didn't perform wellenough.
So now they're kind of lookingat you like You know, how are
they going to, how are they,again, how are they going to
perform in the next couple ofyears?
Cause that's how they pay you.
They pay you based on what theybelieve you're And then just
being aware that, you know,you're, they're going to,
(24:09):
depending on who you're signingwith, you're going to probably
want you to move coaches, moveareas, which is fine, but you
just have to be okay with thatand, and comfortable with it and
Ronnie Baker (24:19):
those are some
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (24:20):
yeah, man, that's, those are some of the
big things that I've learned,man, if you guys have any
questions, I will take somequestions real quick just about
that whole scenario, but that'sreally how I ended up with them,
you know, I just felt like, hey,I wasn't gonna get paid what I
wanted like what I wanted wasNike, and that's totally fine,
you know, God made a way andopened a door for me to be able
(24:41):
to be with Adidas for a longtime James Stokes, what's good,
my guy?
He said, What would you havedone differently knowing what,
you know, if I knew what Iwould, I knew now I would
probably like I said earlier,I'd probably put some, stuff,
some stipulations in there formy indoor stuff, because I did
run really well as indoors andpotentially, you know, negotiate
(25:02):
whether I could have bonusesinto my indoor contracts, like
for my indoor running whichtypically does not happen again,
because there is no indoorOlympics, but I could have
probably made a couple, Coupleof dollars doing that.
So yeah, that was, that wouldhave been one of my biggest
things.
That would have that would havebeen my biggest thing.
(25:23):
Let me see if there's any otherquestions, Someone said, are you
going to start indoors?
Yeah.
So I'm going to be starting myindoor season January 29th is
the first.
Do you think switching shoebrands has changed how you
perform?
I don't think so.
Speed.
I think that for me, one of mybiggest challenges is coming
back from the Olympics and justall the mental stuff that I had
(25:46):
to go through with overcomingjust the disappointment from the
2021 Olympics was really hard.
I talked about that.
I've talked about that on a lotof my podcasts.
I've talked about that on herein my lives.
But I think that that's was, hasbeen something that I've been
dealing with and coming out of.
I don't think it's necessarilythe shoe brand or, or anything
with the shoe.
But I think that for me, it wasmore mental.
(26:08):
The last couple of years havebeen more mental than anything
and just getting in the rightheadspace to do well because I,
because I believe that You don'tjust lose talent out of nowhere.
That's what I believe.
And so I knew, you know, a lotof people, when they have bad
seasons, they switch coaches.
They find someone new becausewhatever the program they're
doing isn't working.
But I knew the program workedbecause I'd run fast.
(26:30):
I knew the program worked.
So it was I knew it was me.
I wasn't gonna blame anybodyelse.
Like, I took full responsibilityMatico says, Do you think your
agent was the problem when youhad bad deals?
Because seems Like, you got abetter contract ever changing
agents Well, I wouldn't say myagent was bad.
I think that sometimes dependingon where you are at, because
(26:50):
track and field, I feel likethere's literally track and
field agents that are stillagents that have been agents for
like 50 plus years.
So I think that what that saysis that there, there aren't a
lot of new ones, meaning that.
The relationships that theagents have, they've had for
years and years and years.
So I think that there, wheneveryou sign with a specific agent,
(27:12):
especially in the track andfield world, they already have
connections to certain shoe Solike, if you sign with someone,
they most likely can get you anew balance or a Puma deal, but
they probably won't be able toget you an Adidas You know, it,
it just depends because therelationships are very different
across, you know, differentagents.
So I wouldn't say that my agentwas bad.
I just think that connectionswere.
(27:32):
Connections were just different.
Um,
Ronnie Baker (27:35):
Tino
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (27:37):
says, do you negotiate the terms yourself or
is it all through your agent?
Well, typically, I mean, you,you, you, the, the contracts, a
lot of the contracts are veryblanket contracts, meaning they
don't differ.
I feel like a lot from, fromathlete to athlete.
I think that there's sometimesthat you can put some special
things in there for like bigbonuses if you want.
(27:58):
But you know, and I think what,I think the difference, I think
Is that like, everyone probablyhas a world record bonus in
their contract.
The difference is how much is ityou know, mine might be
different than someone else'smine might be lower than someone
else's.
Who knows?
So that's kind of how thatworks.
But as far as negotiations Theagent does a lot of that I feel
(28:19):
like if you, if you have somespecial requests, you obviously
can run that by your agent, butyou know, that's, that's kind of
how that works.
I feel like your agent does alot of that.
And because again, because theagents have.
Very long lasting andrelationships with these
companies.
They kind of like go into thesenegotiations, kind of knowing
what they're going to puttogether.
(28:40):
And I feel like if you wantedsomething different than you'd
probably get asked for it.
Maybe that's something that Iwould do now that I know better.
But Yeah.
I mean, you get to look over thecontract before you sign it.
No one forces you to do it.
So you get to, you get to lookover everything and sign it
beforehand.
So if you don't like something,you just say, Hey, I don't like
this.
How can we change it?
(29:01):
And then you, that's how thenegotiation continues to go on.
How do signature shoes work withrunning shoe deals?
there's not very many peoplethat have their own running
shoe.
And to be honest with you, like,Allison Felix, they made a shoe
for Allison Felix with Nike, butI mean, they, she was the most,
she has the most medals of anyathlete, I think.
(29:22):
And track and field history.
And they didn't do that untillike, she was about to like
retire probably three years.
They made like this shoe and itwouldn't even have her name on
it or anything.
It was just like, they made thisshoe for her to run in.
But again, that's why AlisonFelix made her own shoe.
So I don't think that they dothat a lot of times.
I think that was more of a, Imean, Michael Johnson has his
(29:42):
own shoe.
Yeah.
But there was Michael Johnsonback in the day.
He was like the best runner toever do anything.
He wrote two world records.
So.
You know, break a world record.
Maybe you get one.
So but yeah, man, I am gonna hopoff here.
I really appreciate you guyshanging in with me.
and this is probably the mostviewership we've had talked
about money contracts, all kindsof things.
(30:04):
It's been really cool.
I will tell you that there ismoney in track and field.
People always say that there isnot money in track and field.
There's money in track andfield.
Yeah, I've made well over amillion dollars as a track and
field.
athlete.
I can probably say that.
A lot of it has come from myperformances and how well I've
done, but there's money in trackand field.
(30:24):
Now, there's not millions andmillions and millions of dollars
like there is in basketball andfootball, but there is enough
money if you run well enough towhere you can set yourself up,
you can have a nice home, youcan buy a nice car, you can set
yourself, set your life up towhere you're at.
You know, the next few years aregoing to look good for you.
If you invest your money, right.
(30:45):
And do the right things with it.
That is, that's what I'll tellyou Cause everyone always
complains about, it's funnybecause the top people, the
people that make the most moneycomplain about there not being
money in track and field in thetrack and field space.
So there's money there.
There's lots of money.
You just have to run really,really well.
Right.
It's about what you focus on.
So, all right guys, tomorrow, Iwill see you guys tomorrow at 6
(31:08):
PM.
We're doing a question andanswer.
So if you guys have questionsthat you're asking right now,
then I'm not going to get tobring them to the next one.
And I will, you know, I'llbasically answer any questions
that you have.
I will answer this last one atthe bottom of the synergy says,
can you advocate for yourself?
you can advocate for yourself,but I feel like it's not really
advantageous, especially if youdon't know what you're doing.
Like if you're, I mean, comingout of college and you don't
(31:30):
know what you're doing, probablynot the best.
And also again, because there'sthis, these deep root of
relationships with thesecompanies and these agents, I
feel like sometimes they don'ttake you serious as an athlete
doing it on your own.
Ronnie Baker (31:44):
they'll
H6 & ZV-E10-1 (31:44):
find ways to like potentially just screw you over.
You know, So I wouldn't, Iwouldn't recommend doing that.
I always have a professionaldoing that with you.
You know, that way they can be avoice and they can be your
voice.
But anyway, I love you guys.
I will see you guys tomorrow at6 PM.
We'll do a question and answer.
So bring your questions.
I will talk to y'all tomorrow.
(32:06):
Peace.
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