February 5, 2025 • 40 mins
We all recognize that American healthcare is a badly broken system. Wildly overpriced, exploitative, with a focus on pharmaceuticals and medical procedures to the exclusion of basic issues such as nutrition, the role of nutrients, and the microbiome. Can we expect doctors, healthcare executives, pharma or medical device executives to find better solutions?
I highly doubt it. One of the problems plaguing conventional delivery of healthcare is that doctors lack the time, knowledge, and frankly the interest in spending more time with their patients, hearing about their issues, then creating solutions that address their unique concerns.
Enter the age of health coaches. A number of years ago, when I first heard about this phenomenon, of heath coaches playing a role in the delivery of health, I was skeptical. But over the past decade, as I’ve worked with health coaches, witnessed what they could accomplish, and heard plenty of positive feedback from the public engaging their services, my opinions about health coaching has completely changed. I now see them as part of the engine that will drive improvements in healthcare.
I therefore tracked down Sandra Scheinbaum, a Phd clinical psychologist who counseled patients for many years but then diverted her career into functional medicine and health coaching, bringing the unique insights into human behavior and emotions that came from decades of practicing clinical psychology, now applied to health coaching. Dr. Scheinbaum founded the Functional Medicine Coaching Academy that educates and trains people in acquiring the skills and knowledge to practice as a health coach. She is also author of several books including Functional Medicine Coaching: Stories from the Movement That's Transforming Healthcare, and her newest book, Your Health Coach Will See You Now available in April 2025 on Amazon and selected bookstores. In this episode of Defiant Health, Dr. Scheinbaum recounts how she made this change in direction and what she foresees for the future of this important phenomenon of health coaching.
For more information:
FunctionalMedicineCoaching.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
William Davis, MD (00:05):
We all recognize that American
healthcare is a badly brokensystem, wildly overpriced,
exploitative, with a focus onpharmaceuticals and medical
procedures to the exclusion ofbasic issues such as nutrition,
the role of nutrients and themicrobiome.
Can we really expect doctors,health care executives, pharma
(00:28):
or medical device executives tofind better solutions?
I highly doubt it.
One of the problems plaguingconventional delivery of health
care is that doctors lack thetime, knowledge and, frankly,
the interest in spending moretime with their patients,
hearing about their issues, thencreating solutions that address
their unique concerns.
(00:48):
Enter the age of health coaches.
A number of years ago, when Ifirst heard about this
phenomenon of health coachesplaying a role in the delivery
of health, I was skeptical, butover the past decade, as I've
worked with health coaches,witnessed what they could
accomplish and heard plenty ofpositive feedback from the
(01:08):
public engaging their services,my opinions about health
coaching has completely changed.
I now see them as part of theengine that will drive
improvements in health care.
I therefore tracked down SandraScheinbaum, a PhD clinical
psychologist who counseledpatients for many years but then
(01:29):
diverted her career intofunctional medicine and health
coaching, bringing her uniqueinsights into human behavior and
emotions that came from decadesof practicing clinical
psychology now applied to healthcoaching.
Dr Scheinbaum founded theFunctional Medicine Coaching
Academy that educates and trainspeople in acquiring the skills
and knowledge to practice as ahealth coach.
(01:51):
She is also author of severalbooks, including Functional
Medicine Coaching Stories fromthe Movement that's Transforming
Healthcare, and her newest book, your Health Coach Will See you
Now, to be available in April2025 on Amazon and selected
bookstores.
In this episode of DefiantHealth, dr Scheinbaum recounts
(02:11):
how she made this change indirection and what she foresees
for the future of this importantphenomenon of health coaching.
I'll also tell you aboutDefiant Health's sponsors Paleo
Valley, our preferred providerfor many excellent organic and
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(02:33):
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Sandy, thank you for joining us.
You know I like to bring peoplewith some unconventional views
(02:56):
onto this podcast and, havingmet you and, incredibly, being a
neighbor practically much ofthe year, I thought it'd be a
great time to bring you on andmaybe develop a long-term
collaboration so that we cansupport each other's projects.
So, as I mentioned in the intro, that you founded a school for
health coaches, but you're a PhDpsychologist.
(03:18):
Could you detail how thathappened?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (03:21):
Sure Well, first of all, it's a
delight to be here.
How that happened?
Sure Well, first of all, it's adelight to be here.
And I did start out even waybefore back being a PhD
psychologist.
I was in education and I spentmany years training people to
become teachers to help peoplewith special needs in education,
and then I became apsychologist, got my PhD, but my
(03:43):
interest, which was we'retalking back in the late 70s,
early 80s it was in healthpsychology.
I was always fascinated by themind-body connection and at the
time the world of psychology wasbased on a psychoanalytic
approach, for example, and I wasgetting great results teaching
things like breathing techniques, which I actually started out
(04:05):
when I was in special education.
I did a lot of workshops forparents, for teachers, stress
management for teachers, forexample, and I was incorporating
these uses of what we now callmind-body medicine, approaches
like breathing, like use ofimagery, like how what we think
about can have a tremendousimpact on our emotional state,
(04:28):
on our physiological state.
And so I spent some time inpsychosocial oncology where I
was on staff at some localhospitals and I would go in and
at bedside I would help peoplewith not talking about their
past.
That's not what they wanted orneeded, but really helping them
with some guided imagery, withsome ways to let go of pain, for
(04:50):
example, or just being able totalk about the importance of
being supported.
So I then stumbled uponfunctional medicine and I
trained with the Institute forFunctional Medicine.
I was actually the onlypsychologist to go through that
certification program.
This was in 2013.
And I then added that to myprivate practice as a
(05:12):
psychologist.
I was seeing people who hadmigraine headaches, for example,
and I was doing biofeedback andother relaxation strategies
with them and then started tofocus more and more on the
impact of diet, the impact oflifestyle exercises, medicine.
So I was this kind of renegadepsychologist.
(05:33):
My office wasn't far from thelake Lake Michigan.
I said, let's take a walk andwe'll walk and talk.
And, lo and behold, they feltbetter.
And it wasn't the talkingnecessarily, it was the fact
that they were outside, theywere out in nature, they were
moving and so focusing on theseareas of lifestyle sleep and
(05:55):
exercise, movement, stress,relationships and, of course,
diet.
So I was then decided that Iwanted to take this bigger and
then founded a functionalmedicine coaching academy to
train health coaches.
But it was really all thosemodalities that I had been
integrating into my practice asa psychologist, so I was helping
(06:16):
using this the idea that foodis medicine, exercise is
medicine, the importance of thismind body connection, as well
as positive psychology, whichwas what's right with you and
not what's wrong with you, andthen integrated that with
functional medicine principles.
So we founded a school to trainand certify health coaches.
William Davis, MD (06:37):
Has that allowed you to incorporate more
psychological type strategiesinto the health coaching program
.
Sandra Scheinbaum, P (06:45):
Absolutely , because it is so much more
Well.
Actually, the field of coachingevolved from humanistic
psychotherapy, which I had beentrained in.
It was Carl Rogers, for example, the idea of what we call
client-centered, so it's notlike I'm the expert and I'm
going to tell you what to do,I'm going to ask you questions,
(07:05):
I'm going to really listen toyou, and it's you in the
driver's seat as the client, andso that is the basis of health
coaching.
So we incorporate that into thetraining and particularly
positive psychology, the ideathat we.
What positive psychology is?
The scientific study of what weneed to thrive, what makes life
(07:27):
worth living and how we getthere.
It's having these, being ableto experience positive emotions,
being in a flow state, havingmeaning and purpose in your life
, meaningful relationships, thesense of achievement, no matter
how small that may be.
And we get there with ourstrengths, referred to as
character strengths.
So that's really one of thebackbones of our curriculum
(07:49):
because, as somebody who istrained in this, then you will
be able to go out to help yourclients really appreciate their
strengths, being able to observewhat brings them delight every
day.
And so that's the researchersin positive psychology who have
been really instrumental inhelping people with this, and
(08:09):
the cool thing is that it leadsback to what's going on
physiologically and so, as youare deeply aware of feeling joy
and positivity and it's nottoxic positivity where you're
turning a bad situation good, itis really realistic thinking
and as you experience that, itgoes down to a cellular level,
(08:34):
it's an anti-inflammatoryexperience.
William Davis, MD (08:38):
I think that's fantastic because I'm
seeing something similar thatit's the social struggles that
people have that seem to amplifyor even cause some of their
physical struggles, and you andI have talked off camera about
how we know that modernhealthcare is a disaster, and
yet modern physicians are mostof them are not incorporating
(09:01):
some of the newest science andthe newest strategies that are
clearly very powerful, likesupplements and microbiome
issues.
Tell us what you've been doingin your court, in your program,
with those kind of new toolsordinarily neglected by
practicing physicians.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (09:17):
Sure.
So we want health coaches to bethe new primary care, and what
that means is we're not sayingreplace doctors, absolutely not.
We need our medical community.
If you are having a heartattack, you go.
You know, we are both close toNorthwestern Lake Forest
Hospital.
It's a state of the artfacility.
(09:37):
That's where you would be ifyou have an acute emergency.
You think you're having a heartattack.
You don't want to see a healthcoach at that time.
But what happens when you aredischarged and you want to
prevent a second or a thirdprocedure?
That's where lifestyle medicineis so critical.
And lifestyle medicine we startwith the basics, which is what
(09:59):
are you eating?
Are you moving?
What's the stress like in yourlife?
Can you transform that stress,your sleep, your relationships?
But on top of that, there arereally cutting edge discoveries
that have to do with things likethe microbiome I know you are
so passionate about and it'syour life's work now.
And I've started making thisincredible yogurt that I use
(10:35):
this particular strain which Iknow your audience knows the ill
, rotary and delicious yogurt.
So I discovered that.
And then our health coaches.
They are not going to tellpeople, oh, you must be doing it
, but they're going to makesuggestions and they're going to
(10:56):
inform them of theopportunities to take control of
their health, and that might beby making yogurt or getting a
special strain, or might be bydoing red light therapy.
There's a lot of wonderfulresearch about the benefits.
I do that every morning.
I also invested in a soda, andthere are many different
(11:18):
versions that from the top ofthe line but you don't have to
invest hundreds of thousands ofdollars on all of this.
There are things that you cando that are more affordable.
And cold plunges the top of theline, but you don't have to
invest hundreds of thousands ofdollars on all of this.
There are things that you cando that are more affordable.
And cold plunges there'sresearch on that and having the
right supplements, because youknow, as you and I know, our
soil is not what it was when wewere growing up, and so it's
(11:40):
been depleted of minerals.
So I take a ton of supplements,but I don't take them
indiscriminately.
And it's knowing what'spersonalized, what's best for
you, and that's what healthcoaches do.
So they're not the ones thatare going to prescribe the
supplements.
The meal plan, make thediagnosis, but they work with an
individual's doctor, often afunctional medicine or
(12:01):
integrative medicine doctor tocome up with a plan often a
functional medicine orintegrative medicine doctor to
come up with a plan.
And then the coaches are theones that help people live it,
because often life does get inthe way and they may have good
intentions for things they'regoing to do and they just don't
get to it that life gets in theway and stressful things happen
(12:22):
and the coach can help them.
They also help withaccountability, because when
they're like, oh, we talkedabout this, we talked that
you're going to go for a walkevery day.
Well, we're going to ask youabout that when we meet next
time and that accountability isreally critical.
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You know I've had some exposureto the various health coaching
(16:19):
academies, institutes et ceteraover the years, but as far as I
know yours stands apart forbeing unique with this
psychological bent to it, ofcourse being led by someone with
a doctorate in psychology.
Can you tell us how thataffects the curriculum?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (16:35):
Sure.
So we have our curriculum has abig component of functional
medicine and that is taught bythe specialists in functional
medicine.
And then we have experts inmind-body medicine talking about
those principles.
And then the positivepsychology.
We've brought in faculty whoare experts in positive
(16:57):
psychology.
And then the piece that I teachis eating psychology.
That has to do with all thefactors other than what your
actual digestion, and even therepsychology is important.
But how you eat, why you eatwhen you eat, all the influences
it is our personality makes abig difference.
(17:18):
Actually, it's been said thatlooking at how somebody eats and
what they choose is like aRorschach test, which is the
inkblot personality test.
You can tell a lot by whatsomeone's eating and their
eating behaviors, our family,our peers.
There's been a lot of work donethat we eat, how our friends
eat, the peer pressure to eat ornot to eat, the dieting
industry.
(17:38):
So that's the advertising, themarketing of food, the food
claims.
There's also our culture.
It is so, so important Ourregion where we live.
If you're from the South, ifyou're from New Orleans, you
might have an affinity tocertain foods.
We pair holidays, thanksgivingfor many people.
If you don't serve turkey or atraditional meal.
(18:00):
It's not the same.
It's tied in.
It's so directly associatedMessages we give to our kids.
The stages of life are tied inas we get older.
Not for me, I'm going to go outfor every meal.
Well, is that good for them,for their health?
William Davis, MD (18:28):
But if you don't take into account their
attitude and their beliefs, thenit's a losing battle.
Do you find your studentsreceptive to this idea that
they're going to kind of takethe reins on such things as
nutritional supplements andmicrobiome strategies and other
modalities?
Sandra Scheinbaum, P (18:39):
Absolutely , because it's a crowded field
with supplements.
It is very confusing, and everyother day you're going to see a
headline something works,something doesn't work, and
people don't know they don't.
They'll go into a store.
They'll see aisle after aisleof supplements and most people
get their education from thesalesperson in the store or an
(19:01):
advertisement, and so healthcoaches help them be discerning
and they don't actually sayhere's a supplement plan that I
want for you.
Then they're acting as adietician, a doctor, without a
license.
What they do is help thatindividual make that choice.
They present the facts.
(19:22):
They'd say here is a goodresource for you.
So they defer to the expertswho've done research.
They show the research, they goover it with these individuals,
whether it is supplements, redlight, anything else that
someone might be interested in,and so somebody could do that
themselves.
(19:42):
They could go to ChatGPT orGoogle it.
But again, how do you knowwhat's trustworthy?
And so, having a conversationwith a health coach who asks
them questions and also answersquestions like how should I be
taking this?
Is it on an empty stomach, isit with meals, for example?
How should I be taking this?
Is it on an empty stomach, isit with meals, for example, and
(20:04):
most importantly, supplementsare not regulated so that you
don't know where it's comingfrom.
You just order on Amazon couldbe from China.
I just saw there was a reportthat some of the whole foods,
some of the brands that areorganic when they look further,
well, they may be coming fromChina, and so there was a great
(20:25):
book that was a few years ago.
It was described these vitaminfactories that they have in
China.
So what is it if you have, like, vitamin D Well, they're all
different kinds or magnesium.
So that's where health coachescan dig in.
They have the education andthey will help explain to people
how to identify a qualitysupplement.
(20:46):
Has it been third-party tested?
Does it meet rigorous standardsin terms of manufacturing?
There's a lot of fakeingredients that are out there,
for example, and so that isprobably the most critical role
of a coach, and often peoplewill come in to their coach and
(21:07):
they'll have purchasedsupplements, often from, like, a
healthcare practitioner, andthey'll say you know, it's too
expensive, or this is too much,I'm not going to take it.
Or oh, I found vitamin D attheir discount store and so I'm
not going to take it.
Or oh, I found, I found this.
I found vitamin D at you knowtheir big, their discount store,
and so I'm just going to gowith that.
And that's where the healthcoach can clarify what the
(21:28):
difference is and why theprovider recommended these
particular supplements and likesthese brands.
William Davis, MD (21:35):
That's great, sandy, because you and I know
that when done properly,supplements are wonderful,
they're spectacularly effective,but too many.
And I know that when doneproperly, supplements are
wonderful, they're spectacularlyeffective, but too many.
And I can tell you, you and Iknow that a lot of practicing
physicians don't make it theirbusiness to do what you're
saying, that is, screen them,look at them for absorbability,
quality, et cetera.
So I think that's a great thing.
(21:57):
I always felt that healthcoaching filled that huge void
where my colleagues say thingslike stop everything, they don't
work, you're making expensiveurine, all that kind of nonsense
, and so that's a great thing.
Sandra Scheinbaum, P (22:11):
Absolutely yeah.
Either they don't believe insupplements and they tell people
don't take any supplements, orthey may say, oh yeah, you know,
maybe take vitamin D.
Or if somebody asks, hey,should I be taking it?
Yeah, it can't hurt, but thenhow do you know what kind of
vitamin D, what's a good brand?
And that's where health coachesreally provide that support,
(22:31):
that education.
William Davis, MD (22:34):
With this deep kind of focus on
psychological health as well asfunctional health, et cetera,
focus on psychological health aswell as functional health, et
cetera.
Do you find that your academyappeals to a certain type of
student younger, older, nurses,people with some psychology
background, et cetera?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (22:51):
Yeah.
So what is so heartwarming forme is to learn about our
students and get to know them,and they are such a diverse
group.
We have people just out ofcollege, just out of high school
actually they're taking, theywant to become a coach first.
People are, maybe they'rethinking about going into
medicine, into nursing, and theyget their health certificate as
(23:13):
a coach first.
We also have people in their80s.
We even had a 90-year-old.
He was taking the course withhis granddaughter.
We have many people inretirement or about to enter
retirement.
They may have had a satisfyingcareer.
They may be having a pension,like a lot of.
We get a lot of school teachers, former school teachers.
Now they want to serve.
(23:34):
They often may be.
Maybe they went through ahealth crisis themselves and
they found alternative,integrative medicine, functional
medicine.
They got better, they becameempowered to take charge of
their own health and now theyfeel it's our time to give back
and they want to help others,and so they are very motivated.
(23:56):
The wonderful thing about thisprofession is that you do not
need a background in health care.
Now we do get a lot of doctorslearning to be health coaches.
We get a lot of nurses, a lotof nutrition professionals,
people in wellness like yoga,pilates, personal trainers but
we also get people who have nobackground in health care.
(24:17):
We have investment bankers, wehave farmers, we have people who
have been in retail, inmarketing, stay-at-home moms who
raise their kids and now theywant to, uh, have a business as
a health coach, or they want towork for doctors, and so it.
There is no um barriers to entryand compared to because I get
(24:41):
this question all the time well,should I go back and get a
degree in nutrition, a phd ormaster's, for example, or health
coach?
So when you compare the expense, the time and what you're going
to get out of it, coaching willprovide that.
Where you can really serveothers, you're making a huge
difference and it is moreaffordable and less time
(25:03):
consuming.
So you could still.
Hey, we've had people who havebeen homeschooling five kids and
they have a job and they'regoing through our program.
It's remote.
Most health coaching programsare now, and our school is
eligible for our graduates tosit for the national board.
Now, that's something that'simportant, because anybody can
(25:24):
just go out and hang a shingleand say I'm a health coach.
So if you're a providerlistening and you're thinking,
I'd love to have a health coachin my practice, but you want to
make sure that they are boardcertified so that they have met
the minimum standards ofexcellence and they've gone that
extra mile to seek boardcertification, as opposed to
somebody who just went to somefly-by-night program and calls
(25:46):
them a health coach.
William Davis, MD (25:49):
How widely is that adopted?
Do you find a lot more healthcoaches are going that route?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (25:54):
Yes, most of our graduates.
We actually, I'm proud to say,we have a very high passing rate
.
We have to take a board examand we have one of the highest
passing rates, so I'm real proudof that.
And our students are highlyeducated.
We have people who are PhDs inmolecular engineering.
As I said, many physicians havecome through our program and
(26:16):
those again who have nobackground in healthcare, but
they are good listeners.
That's the key being able toreally be with somebody, as
opposed to telling them what todo and coming in with an agenda.
Like you know, you should bevegan or you should be carnivore
.
William Davis, MD (26:34):
Well, this whole idea that physicians and
other health care practitioners,nurses, etc.
Are opting to go the healthcare health coach route, what do
you find about those people?
Why are they doing this?
What do they tell you?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (26:46):
Several reasons.
So some feel like they arelearning this to increase the
value of this therapeuticalliance.
They're maybe struggling toreally connect or they feel like
healthcare has lost its way.
They may be part of a bighospital system and they are
given eight minutes to be withsomebody if that, and they want
(27:09):
to make a difference.
So often they train asphysicians in functional
medicine or lifestyle orintegrative medicine.
But then we have some who arealready in those areas and they
want to serve as health coachesfor a variety of reasons.
Some actually, there's somebodywho's a very good friend and
(27:29):
she's board certified inneurology, board certified in
neurology, and she has given upher license because she feels
like she wants the.
She's somebody whose childrenare grown, she wants to travel
and she likes the idea that Ican hold groups and I can do
group coaching and it's verysatisfying.
(27:50):
And then it's real clear in herclient agreement that she you
know she has, she had been apracticing physician, but she's
not going to be treating them,she's not going to be diagnosing
it, doing you know any, anyprescriptions, and when that
comes up she refers them to acolleague who is currently
practicing medicine.
So that is one model.
(28:11):
Also those who are retiring alot of retired physicians and
those who are still practicing.
But they wear two hats and thisis possible where they can.
Today I am Coach Bill and I amgoing to be leading a coaching
group or one-on-one sessions andthen another time I identify.
(28:37):
You know in my patientagreement that I am Dr Davis and
I wear that doctor hat andoften the difference is to be
really clear when you're thedoctor, you have patients.
When you're a coach, you haveclients, you may have your first
name as opposed to Dr Davis.
So it is pretty clear in thatagreement and there are lawyers
who actually are specializing inhelping physicians navigate
that so that they are notaccused of using health coaching
(29:00):
as a way to kind of cheat andhave patients across state lines
.
William Davis, MD (29:06):
You know, sandy, you interact with so many
people from so many walks oflife.
What are you seeing as evolvingin the setting that these
people provide their healthcoaching services?
Do you see it shifting online?
Is it face-to-face, is it indoctor's offices?
What's happening, what'sevolving?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (29:25):
Yeah, sure.
So that's a great question.
I think that we're seeing moreand more people liking online,
so they meet with their coachonline, and there's been studies
these come from psychotherapyactually, and they're very old,
even like with phone, before wehad Zoom and Zoom could be HIPAA
compliant but the difference interms of that relationship
(29:51):
really is not significant.
In other words, we would thinkthat you need that in-person
encounter to really have thatimportant exchange with somebody
, and then it turns out it's nottrue.
You could have a very deepconversation, you can move the
needle, somebody doing it, as weare talking remotely, so most
(30:12):
coaches will work that way.
People like it.
They don't have to be stuck intraffic driving to an office,
for example.
They can do it in their lunchhour.
People have sessions like intheir car over lunch and they
take a time off from work duringlunch, for example.
And then there are many clinicswho are in person and a coach
can be working there.
What we are seeing is moredoctors seeing the benefit of
(30:37):
having a health coach in theirpractice, and so when I said
earlier that coaches will be thenew primary care, it is that
they will be the new face ofprimary care.
So you used to have a.
Let's say you're starting outwith your doctor.
You see the coach.
Initially they're like theconcierge.
They introduce you to thepractice, they answer any
(30:59):
preliminary questions.
If forms are challenging tofill out, especially if you're a
functional, integrated man, youget a hundred page form asking
you if you were breastfed orbottle fed, and people get
overwhelmed.
So coaches will help younavigate that and often they're
starting to have you tell yourstory and often they'll begin to
make lifestyle changes evenbefore they see the doctor.
(31:21):
So the idea is the coach isthere, the front end.
They're also there after theconsult, after you've had your
labs and after you've seen thephysician, and then you follow
up with the coach.
It could be individual, itcould be a group visit.
That's a very successful modelbecause then the community
becomes the medicine, so tospeak, and that's where they
(31:44):
answer more questions, help youwith.
You know they don't interpretlab results, but they'll provide
education and they're thatvoice of communication.
They're the bridge ofcommunication back to the doctor
.
So if somebody's non-compliant,if somebody, often they're
monitoring remote devices like,for example, they're wearing a
continuous glucose monitor, andthen the coach will be looking
(32:08):
at that data and they'll bereporting back to the
practitioner any challenges thatare reporting back to the
practitioner, any challengesthat they're seeing, for example
.
So it benefits both thepractice, both the staff, as
well as the patients.
And for the doctor it reallyhelps with exhaustion, with
burnout, because the coach arethe ones that are helping people
(32:30):
, that the question that thedoctor has to answer over and
over again, for example, andthey make their well-meaning but
they just don't have the timeand the coach brings that back.
And what I'm saying is that thecoach is bringing back bedside
manner.
That's the fundamentals ofhealth coach training is bedside
manner where you have rapport,you make eye contact.
(32:53):
For that time you're with thatindividual, they're the most
important person, you are solelyfocused on them and as opposed
to a physician, who's gotthey've got to enter in the
chart, they've got the next,they're running behind, they've
got a whole waiting room full ofpeople and so often that
bedside manner gets lost andmedical schools aren't even
(33:15):
teaching it anymore.
They're teaching diagnosticiansand they use their seeing AI as
the future of medicine.
Well, what happened to bedsidemanner?
William Davis, MD (33:26):
You know, Sandy, I pride myself usually in
being able to foresee trends inthe future.
This one I did not see, Sandy.
Being able to foresee trends inthe future this one I did not
see, Sandy.
That is that health coacheswill become an integral
participant, an important playerin the whole process of
healthcare delivery in medicaloffices.
So that's a really cool trend.
Can you give us some idea aboutthe logistics of your academy,
(33:49):
that is, is there a qualifyingexamination?
Is there?
How long does it take?
Is it year long?
What are the mechanics?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (33:56):
Yeah, it is one year and then one people
.
When they graduate, we have analumni program so they can still
stay with us, they can stillcome to my office hours.
We have mentoring.
We can help them.
We have a concierge service for, let's say, a doctor wants to
hire a coach.
We help that process or usethem as a referrer, refer to
them in the community.
(34:17):
And it's 12 months.
It is all online.
The real heart of the program isour cohort groups, our live
training sessions, so live viaZoom.
These are 10, 12 people.
They have a course facilitatorwho's a former student and they
are learning to be a coach.
This is how I learned when Iwas studying psychology, getting
(34:39):
my phd small group.
It was in person.
Then, uh, you're the coach, I'mthe client, we talk about
something and it becomes veryreal, very powerful those who
use breakout rooms often forthat and then they get feedback
from the course facilitator,from their peers, and they
experience it in so many ways.
We focus on lots of ethicalissues, for example, which also
(35:03):
come from psychology, like youknow.
Okay, let's say you have aclient and they want to take you
out for a date.
Is that ethical?
There's no guidelines in termsof health coaching, but we have
a talk that explores this andsimilar ethical dilemmas that
people run into.
What happens and this hashappened more than I would like
to say.
(35:24):
This was her first time being acoach and she was in a session.
It was kind of like a practicumexperience and just right off
the bat, that first person she'sinteracting with says she wants
to kill herself.
What do you do?
You're a coach, how do youhandle that?
And so we go over.
We have role plays, we havetraining videos that show those
(35:47):
scenarios and how you wouldhandle it, and so it's based on
webinars, as well as these livetraining sessions and what we
call coaching in action, wherewe have a whole series.
In the past we've usedprofessional actors for this.
They're playing clients andthen we show that process from
start to finish and trainingthem in these particular skills
(36:09):
that they need to be aneffective health coach.
William Davis, MD (36:12):
Wow, that's impressive.
Hired actors, huh.
So someone does the course fora year.
Give us an idea what happenspostgraduate.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (36:21):
Sure, so they can choose to sit for the
exam.
They have to log so many hoursof clients and then they are
eligible to sit for the examfrom the National Board for
Health and Wellness Coaching.
And then many of them want tolaunch their own business as a
health coach.
Some are integrating coachingskills and strategies into what
(36:41):
they're already doing.
Let's say, a massage therapist,and she wants to continue with
that, and then the health coachor a personal trainer.
We have doctors who have takenthat and now they know how to
hire coaches.
We have one she's in Texasactually.
She used to teach for theInstitute for Functional
Medicine.
Her name is Dr MargaretChristensen and she studied with
(37:03):
us to become a health coach.
People in her family alsobecame coaches and now she runs
a coaching practice.
And so we have people who havedone that.
They've gotten together andlaunched programs, and many
people want to work for doctorsor they want to work in
corporate wellness.
There's a big need.
(37:23):
Employees can get healthcoaching sessions, and so we
have people doing that.
We also have people who want tohave a larger voice.
They write books and blogs andthey launch podcasts.
So a lot of different things youcan do and some who do it for
their own benefit, they gothrough our program.
(37:45):
They're not interested inbecoming a health coach.
They're interested in theirpersonal health, the health of
their friends, their families,and they're realizing that they
want to get that into aneducation so that they can live
healthier, happier lives.
Because, without a doubt, thosewho go through the program say
(38:05):
you know, I came in and I justthought I would just to become a
health coach to get thatcredential.
I wanted to learn functionalmedicine.
But what they come out with issaying it was a personal
transformation.
And that's largely because ofthe positive psychology piece
and the idea that when you areexperiencing coaching somebody
else, you change for the better,both physiologically as well as
(38:30):
mentally and emotionally.
William Davis, MD (38:33):
It's so cool that you guys are getting access
to corporate wellness, becausethat's where you can impact so
many people.
Give us an idea, Cindy.
What are the logistics ofsigning up for the course?
Where do they go?
What's the next step?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (38:47):
They can go to
functionalmedicinecoachingorgand they can download an info
packet.
They can set up an appointmentwith one of our admissions
counselors to see if this isright.
We have two classes starting,one March 1st and one September
1st.
We also have specialty coursesthat are available now and more
(39:09):
will be coming out in the future.
William Davis, MD (39:12):
Wow, that's fantastic.
You've been busy.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (39:16):
Yeah, I also have a new book that will
be released very soon.
William Davis, MD (39:18):
Tell us more, tell us more.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (39:19):
That is called your Health Coach Will
See you Now and it talks aboutthe issues that we can't deny
that are plaguing our healthcare system, which is really
sick care, growing physicianshortage, and how health coaches
are really the key, becausethey are the lifestyle change
specialists and to combat theepidemic of chronic disease, it
(39:43):
is not through acute caremedicine, it is through
lifestyle change and that's whatcoaches do what's your
anticipated release date?
Uh, probably the end of March.
William Davis, MD (39:55):
Oh, that soon ?
Yeah, fantastic Congratulations.
That's wonderful.
So we'll have to get you backto talk about the book in a
little bit.
We'd love to Sandy.
Thank you for taking the time.
It's so incredible that I canpractically yell out my window,
sandy, and you would say what doyou want, bill?
But I'm here to support yourefforts because, as you know,
(40:16):
already know, I think, a lot ofthe future of what happens in
this disaster called health,using tools that are typically
neglected by practicingphysicians, like the microbiome
and supplements.
So, sandy, I applaud you.
Thank you for doing everythingyou do.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (40:46):
Thank you for having me.
We all recognize that American
healthcare is a badly brokensystem, wildly overpriced,
exploitative, with a focus onpharmaceuticals and medical
procedures to the exclusion ofbasic issues such as nutrition,
the role of nutrients and themicrobiome.
Can we really expect doctors,health care executives, pharma
(00:28):
or medical device executives tofind better solutions?
I highly doubt it.
One of the problems plaguingconventional delivery of health
care is that doctors lack thetime, knowledge and, frankly,
the interest in spending moretime with their patients,
hearing about their issues, thencreating solutions that address
their unique concerns.
(00:48):
Enter the age of health coaches.
A number of years ago, when Ifirst heard about this
phenomenon of health coachesplaying a role in the delivery
of health, I was skeptical, butover the past decade, as I've
worked with health coaches,witnessed what they could
accomplish and heard plenty ofpositive feedback from the
(01:08):
public engaging their services,my opinions about health
coaching has completely changed.
I now see them as part of theengine that will drive
improvements in health care.
I therefore tracked down SandraScheinbaum, a PhD clinical
psychologist who counseledpatients for many years but then
(01:29):
diverted her career intofunctional medicine and health
coaching, bringing her uniqueinsights into human behavior and
emotions that came from decadesof practicing clinical
psychology now applied to healthcoaching.
Dr Scheinbaum founded theFunctional Medicine Coaching
Academy that educates and trainspeople in acquiring the skills
and knowledge to practice as ahealth coach.
(01:51):
She is also author of severalbooks, including Functional
Medicine Coaching Stories fromthe Movement that's Transforming
Healthcare, and her newest book, your Health Coach Will See you
Now, to be available in April2025 on Amazon and selected
bookstores.
In this episode of DefiantHealth, dr Scheinbaum recounts
(02:11):
how she made this change indirection and what she foresees
for the future of this importantphenomenon of health coaching.
I'll also tell you aboutDefiant Health's sponsors Paleo
Valley, our preferred providerfor many excellent organic and
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Sandy, thank you for joining us.
You know I like to bring peoplewith some unconventional views
(02:56):
onto this podcast and, havingmet you and, incredibly, being a
neighbor practically much ofthe year, I thought it'd be a
great time to bring you on andmaybe develop a long-term
collaboration so that we cansupport each other's projects.
So, as I mentioned in the intro, that you founded a school for
health coaches, but you're a PhDpsychologist.
(03:18):
Could you detail how thathappened?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (03:21):
Sure Well, first of all, it's a
delight to be here.
How that happened?
Sure Well, first of all, it's adelight to be here.
And I did start out even waybefore back being a PhD
psychologist.
I was in education and I spentmany years training people to
become teachers to help peoplewith special needs in education,
and then I became apsychologist, got my PhD, but my
(03:43):
interest, which was we'retalking back in the late 70s,
early 80s it was in healthpsychology.
I was always fascinated by themind-body connection and at the
time the world of psychology wasbased on a psychoanalytic
approach, for example, and I wasgetting great results teaching
things like breathing techniques, which I actually started out
(04:05):
when I was in special education.
I did a lot of workshops forparents, for teachers, stress
management for teachers, forexample, and I was incorporating
these uses of what we now callmind-body medicine, approaches
like breathing, like use ofimagery, like how what we think
about can have a tremendousimpact on our emotional state,
(04:28):
on our physiological state.
And so I spent some time inpsychosocial oncology where I
was on staff at some localhospitals and I would go in and
at bedside I would help peoplewith not talking about their
past.
That's not what they wanted orneeded, but really helping them
with some guided imagery, withsome ways to let go of pain, for
(04:50):
example, or just being able totalk about the importance of
being supported.
So I then stumbled uponfunctional medicine and I
trained with the Institute forFunctional Medicine.
I was actually the onlypsychologist to go through that
certification program.
This was in 2013.
And I then added that to myprivate practice as a
(05:12):
psychologist.
I was seeing people who hadmigraine headaches, for example,
and I was doing biofeedback andother relaxation strategies
with them and then started tofocus more and more on the
impact of diet, the impact oflifestyle exercises, medicine.
So I was this kind of renegadepsychologist.
(05:33):
My office wasn't far from thelake Lake Michigan.
I said, let's take a walk andwe'll walk and talk.
And, lo and behold, they feltbetter.
And it wasn't the talkingnecessarily, it was the fact
that they were outside, theywere out in nature, they were
moving and so focusing on theseareas of lifestyle sleep and
(05:55):
exercise, movement, stress,relationships and, of course,
diet.
So I was then decided that Iwanted to take this bigger and
then founded a functionalmedicine coaching academy to
train health coaches.
But it was really all thosemodalities that I had been
integrating into my practice asa psychologist, so I was helping
(06:16):
using this the idea that foodis medicine, exercise is
medicine, the importance of thismind body connection, as well
as positive psychology, whichwas what's right with you and
not what's wrong with you, andthen integrated that with
functional medicine principles.
So we founded a school to trainand certify health coaches.
William Davis, MD (06:37):
Has that allowed you to incorporate more
psychological type strategiesinto the health coaching program
.
Sandra Scheinbaum, P (06:45):
Absolutely , because it is so much more
Well.
Actually, the field of coachingevolved from humanistic
psychotherapy, which I had beentrained in.
It was Carl Rogers, for example, the idea of what we call
client-centered, so it's notlike I'm the expert and I'm
going to tell you what to do,I'm going to ask you questions,
(07:05):
I'm going to really listen toyou, and it's you in the
driver's seat as the client, andso that is the basis of health
coaching.
So we incorporate that into thetraining and particularly
positive psychology, the ideathat we.
What positive psychology is?
The scientific study of what weneed to thrive, what makes life
(07:27):
worth living and how we getthere.
It's having these, being ableto experience positive emotions,
being in a flow state, havingmeaning and purpose in your life
, meaningful relationships, thesense of achievement, no matter
how small that may be.
And we get there with ourstrengths, referred to as
character strengths.
So that's really one of thebackbones of our curriculum
(07:49):
because, as somebody who istrained in this, then you will
be able to go out to help yourclients really appreciate their
strengths, being able to observewhat brings them delight every
day.
And so that's the researchersin positive psychology who have
been really instrumental inhelping people with this, and
(08:09):
the cool thing is that it leadsback to what's going on
physiologically and so, as youare deeply aware of feeling joy
and positivity and it's nottoxic positivity where you're
turning a bad situation good, itis really realistic thinking
and as you experience that, itgoes down to a cellular level,
(08:34):
it's an anti-inflammatoryexperience.
William Davis, MD (08:38):
I think that's fantastic because I'm
seeing something similar thatit's the social struggles that
people have that seem to amplifyor even cause some of their
physical struggles, and you andI have talked off camera about
how we know that modernhealthcare is a disaster, and
yet modern physicians are mostof them are not incorporating
(09:01):
some of the newest science andthe newest strategies that are
clearly very powerful, likesupplements and microbiome
issues.
Tell us what you've been doingin your court, in your program,
with those kind of new toolsordinarily neglected by
practicing physicians.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (09:17):
Sure.
So we want health coaches to bethe new primary care, and what
that means is we're not sayingreplace doctors, absolutely not.
We need our medical community.
If you are having a heartattack, you go.
You know, we are both close toNorthwestern Lake Forest
Hospital.
It's a state of the artfacility.
(09:37):
That's where you would be ifyou have an acute emergency.
You think you're having a heartattack.
You don't want to see a healthcoach at that time.
But what happens when you aredischarged and you want to
prevent a second or a thirdprocedure?
That's where lifestyle medicineis so critical.
And lifestyle medicine we startwith the basics, which is what
(09:59):
are you eating?
Are you moving?
What's the stress like in yourlife?
Can you transform that stress,your sleep, your relationships?
But on top of that, there arereally cutting edge discoveries
that have to do with things likethe microbiome I know you are
so passionate about and it'syour life's work now.
And I've started making thisincredible yogurt that I use
(10:35):
this particular strain which Iknow your audience knows the ill
, rotary and delicious yogurt.
So I discovered that.
And then our health coaches.
They are not going to tellpeople, oh, you must be doing it
, but they're going to makesuggestions and they're going to
(10:56):
inform them of theopportunities to take control of
their health, and that might beby making yogurt or getting a
special strain, or might be bydoing red light therapy.
There's a lot of wonderfulresearch about the benefits.
I do that every morning.
I also invested in a soda, andthere are many different
(11:18):
versions that from the top ofthe line but you don't have to
invest hundreds of thousands ofdollars on all of this.
There are things that you cando that are more affordable.
And cold plunges the top of theline, but you don't have to
invest hundreds of thousands ofdollars on all of this.
There are things that you cando that are more affordable.
And cold plunges there'sresearch on that and having the
right supplements, because youknow, as you and I know, our
soil is not what it was when wewere growing up, and so it's
(11:40):
been depleted of minerals.
So I take a ton of supplements,but I don't take them
indiscriminately.
And it's knowing what'spersonalized, what's best for
you, and that's what healthcoaches do.
So they're not the ones thatare going to prescribe the
supplements.
The meal plan, make thediagnosis, but they work with an
individual's doctor, often afunctional medicine or
(12:01):
integrative medicine doctor tocome up with a plan often a
functional medicine orintegrative medicine doctor to
come up with a plan.
And then the coaches are theones that help people live it,
because often life does get inthe way and they may have good
intentions for things they'regoing to do and they just don't
get to it that life gets in theway and stressful things happen
(12:22):
and the coach can help them.
They also help withaccountability, because when
they're like, oh, we talkedabout this, we talked that
you're going to go for a walkevery day.
Well, we're going to ask youabout that when we meet next
time and that accountability isreally critical.
William Davis, MD (12:39):
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Now let's get back to ourdiscussion.
You know I've had some exposureto the various health coaching
(16:19):
academies, institutes et ceteraover the years, but as far as I
know yours stands apart forbeing unique with this
psychological bent to it, ofcourse being led by someone with
a doctorate in psychology.
Can you tell us how thataffects the curriculum?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (16:35):
Sure.
So we have our curriculum has abig component of functional
medicine and that is taught bythe specialists in functional
medicine.
And then we have experts inmind-body medicine talking about
those principles.
And then the positivepsychology.
We've brought in faculty whoare experts in positive
(16:57):
psychology.
And then the piece that I teachis eating psychology.
That has to do with all thefactors other than what your
actual digestion, and even therepsychology is important.
But how you eat, why you eatwhen you eat, all the influences
it is our personality makes abig difference.
(17:18):
Actually, it's been said thatlooking at how somebody eats and
what they choose is like aRorschach test, which is the
inkblot personality test.
You can tell a lot by whatsomeone's eating and their
eating behaviors, our family,our peers.
There's been a lot of work donethat we eat, how our friends
eat, the peer pressure to eat ornot to eat, the dieting
industry.
(17:38):
So that's the advertising, themarketing of food, the food
claims.
There's also our culture.
It is so, so important Ourregion where we live.
If you're from the South, ifyou're from New Orleans, you
might have an affinity tocertain foods.
We pair holidays, thanksgivingfor many people.
If you don't serve turkey or atraditional meal.
(18:00):
It's not the same.
It's tied in.
It's so directly associatedMessages we give to our kids.
The stages of life are tied inas we get older.
Not for me, I'm going to go outfor every meal.
Well, is that good for them,for their health?
William Davis, MD (18:28):
But if you don't take into account their
attitude and their beliefs, thenit's a losing battle.
Do you find your studentsreceptive to this idea that
they're going to kind of takethe reins on such things as
nutritional supplements andmicrobiome strategies and other
modalities?
Sandra Scheinbaum, P (18:39):
Absolutely , because it's a crowded field
with supplements.
It is very confusing, and everyother day you're going to see a
headline something works,something doesn't work, and
people don't know they don't.
They'll go into a store.
They'll see aisle after aisleof supplements and most people
get their education from thesalesperson in the store or an
(19:01):
advertisement, and so healthcoaches help them be discerning
and they don't actually sayhere's a supplement plan that I
want for you.
Then they're acting as adietician, a doctor, without a
license.
What they do is help thatindividual make that choice.
They present the facts.
(19:22):
They'd say here is a goodresource for you.
So they defer to the expertswho've done research.
They show the research, they goover it with these individuals,
whether it is supplements, redlight, anything else that
someone might be interested in,and so somebody could do that
themselves.
(19:42):
They could go to ChatGPT orGoogle it.
But again, how do you knowwhat's trustworthy?
And so, having a conversationwith a health coach who asks
them questions and also answersquestions like how should I be
taking this?
Is it on an empty stomach, isit with meals, for example?
How should I be taking this?
Is it on an empty stomach, isit with meals, for example, and
(20:04):
most importantly, supplementsare not regulated so that you
don't know where it's comingfrom.
You just order on Amazon couldbe from China.
I just saw there was a reportthat some of the whole foods,
some of the brands that areorganic when they look further,
well, they may be coming fromChina, and so there was a great
(20:25):
book that was a few years ago.
It was described these vitaminfactories that they have in
China.
So what is it if you have, like, vitamin D Well, they're all
different kinds or magnesium.
So that's where health coachescan dig in.
They have the education andthey will help explain to people
how to identify a qualitysupplement.
(20:46):
Has it been third-party tested?
Does it meet rigorous standardsin terms of manufacturing?
There's a lot of fakeingredients that are out there,
for example, and so that isprobably the most critical role
of a coach, and often peoplewill come in to their coach and
(21:07):
they'll have purchasedsupplements, often from, like, a
healthcare practitioner, andthey'll say you know, it's too
expensive, or this is too much,I'm not going to take it.
Or oh, I found vitamin D attheir discount store and so I'm
not going to take it.
Or oh, I found, I found this.
I found vitamin D at you knowtheir big, their discount store,
and so I'm just going to gowith that.
And that's where the healthcoach can clarify what the
(21:28):
difference is and why theprovider recommended these
particular supplements and likesthese brands.
William Davis, MD (21:35):
That's great, sandy, because you and I know
that when done properly,supplements are wonderful,
they're spectacularly effective,but too many.
And I know that when doneproperly, supplements are
wonderful, they're spectacularlyeffective, but too many.
And I can tell you, you and Iknow that a lot of practicing
physicians don't make it theirbusiness to do what you're
saying, that is, screen them,look at them for absorbability,
quality, et cetera.
So I think that's a great thing.
(21:57):
I always felt that healthcoaching filled that huge void
where my colleagues say thingslike stop everything, they don't
work, you're making expensiveurine, all that kind of nonsense
, and so that's a great thing.
Sandra Scheinbaum, P (22:11):
Absolutely yeah.
Either they don't believe insupplements and they tell people
don't take any supplements, orthey may say, oh yeah, you know,
maybe take vitamin D.
Or if somebody asks, hey,should I be taking it?
Yeah, it can't hurt, but thenhow do you know what kind of
vitamin D, what's a good brand?
And that's where health coachesreally provide that support,
(22:31):
that education.
William Davis, MD (22:34):
With this deep kind of focus on
psychological health as well asfunctional health, et cetera,
focus on psychological health aswell as functional health, et
cetera.
Do you find that your academyappeals to a certain type of
student younger, older, nurses,people with some psychology
background, et cetera?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (22:51):
Yeah.
So what is so heartwarming forme is to learn about our
students and get to know them,and they are such a diverse
group.
We have people just out ofcollege, just out of high school
actually they're taking, theywant to become a coach first.
People are, maybe they'rethinking about going into
medicine, into nursing, and theyget their health certificate as
(23:13):
a coach first.
We also have people in their80s.
We even had a 90-year-old.
He was taking the course withhis granddaughter.
We have many people inretirement or about to enter
retirement.
They may have had a satisfyingcareer.
They may be having a pension,like a lot of.
We get a lot of school teachers, former school teachers.
Now they want to serve.
(23:34):
They often may be.
Maybe they went through ahealth crisis themselves and
they found alternative,integrative medicine, functional
medicine.
They got better, they becameempowered to take charge of
their own health and now theyfeel it's our time to give back
and they want to help others,and so they are very motivated.
(23:56):
The wonderful thing about thisprofession is that you do not
need a background in health care.
Now we do get a lot of doctorslearning to be health coaches.
We get a lot of nurses, a lotof nutrition professionals,
people in wellness like yoga,pilates, personal trainers but
we also get people who have nobackground in health care.
(24:17):
We have investment bankers, wehave farmers, we have people who
have been in retail, inmarketing, stay-at-home moms who
raise their kids and now theywant to, uh, have a business as
a health coach, or they want towork for doctors, and so it.
There is no um barriers to entryand compared to because I get
(24:41):
this question all the time well,should I go back and get a
degree in nutrition, a phd ormaster's, for example, or health
coach?
So when you compare the expense, the time and what you're going
to get out of it, coaching willprovide that.
Where you can really serveothers, you're making a huge
difference and it is moreaffordable and less time
(25:03):
consuming.
So you could still.
Hey, we've had people who havebeen homeschooling five kids and
they have a job and they'regoing through our program.
It's remote.
Most health coaching programsare now, and our school is
eligible for our graduates tosit for the national board.
Now, that's something that'simportant, because anybody can
(25:24):
just go out and hang a shingleand say I'm a health coach.
So if you're a providerlistening and you're thinking,
I'd love to have a health coachin my practice, but you want to
make sure that they are boardcertified so that they have met
the minimum standards ofexcellence and they've gone that
extra mile to seek boardcertification, as opposed to
somebody who just went to somefly-by-night program and calls
(25:46):
them a health coach.
William Davis, MD (25:49):
How widely is that adopted?
Do you find a lot more healthcoaches are going that route?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (25:54):
Yes, most of our graduates.
We actually, I'm proud to say,we have a very high passing rate
.
We have to take a board examand we have one of the highest
passing rates, so I'm real proudof that.
And our students are highlyeducated.
We have people who are PhDs inmolecular engineering.
As I said, many physicians havecome through our program and
(26:16):
those again who have nobackground in healthcare, but
they are good listeners.
That's the key being able toreally be with somebody, as
opposed to telling them what todo and coming in with an agenda.
Like you know, you should bevegan or you should be carnivore
.
William Davis, MD (26:34):
Well, this whole idea that physicians and
other health care practitioners,nurses, etc.
Are opting to go the healthcare health coach route, what do
you find about those people?
Why are they doing this?
What do they tell you?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (26:46):
Several reasons.
So some feel like they arelearning this to increase the
value of this therapeuticalliance.
They're maybe struggling toreally connect or they feel like
healthcare has lost its way.
They may be part of a bighospital system and they are
given eight minutes to be withsomebody if that, and they want
(27:09):
to make a difference.
So often they train asphysicians in functional
medicine or lifestyle orintegrative medicine.
But then we have some who arealready in those areas and they
want to serve as health coachesfor a variety of reasons.
Some actually, there's somebodywho's a very good friend and
(27:29):
she's board certified inneurology, board certified in
neurology, and she has given upher license because she feels
like she wants the.
She's somebody whose childrenare grown, she wants to travel
and she likes the idea that Ican hold groups and I can do
group coaching and it's verysatisfying.
(27:50):
And then it's real clear in herclient agreement that she you
know she has, she had been apracticing physician, but she's
not going to be treating them,she's not going to be diagnosing
it, doing you know any, anyprescriptions, and when that
comes up she refers them to acolleague who is currently
practicing medicine.
So that is one model.
(28:11):
Also those who are retiring alot of retired physicians and
those who are still practicing.
But they wear two hats and thisis possible where they can.
Today I am Coach Bill and I amgoing to be leading a coaching
group or one-on-one sessions andthen another time I identify.
(28:37):
You know in my patientagreement that I am Dr Davis and
I wear that doctor hat andoften the difference is to be
really clear when you're thedoctor, you have patients.
When you're a coach, you haveclients, you may have your first
name as opposed to Dr Davis.
So it is pretty clear in thatagreement and there are lawyers
who actually are specializing inhelping physicians navigate
that so that they are notaccused of using health coaching
(29:00):
as a way to kind of cheat andhave patients across state lines
.
William Davis, MD (29:06):
You know, sandy, you interact with so many
people from so many walks oflife.
What are you seeing as evolvingin the setting that these
people provide their healthcoaching services?
Do you see it shifting online?
Is it face-to-face, is it indoctor's offices?
What's happening, what'sevolving?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (29:25):
Yeah, sure.
So that's a great question.
I think that we're seeing moreand more people liking online,
so they meet with their coachonline, and there's been studies
these come from psychotherapyactually, and they're very old,
even like with phone, before wehad Zoom and Zoom could be HIPAA
compliant but the difference interms of that relationship
(29:51):
really is not significant.
In other words, we would thinkthat you need that in-person
encounter to really have thatimportant exchange with somebody
, and then it turns out it's nottrue.
You could have a very deepconversation, you can move the
needle, somebody doing it, as weare talking remotely, so most
(30:12):
coaches will work that way.
People like it.
They don't have to be stuck intraffic driving to an office,
for example.
They can do it in their lunchhour.
People have sessions like intheir car over lunch and they
take a time off from work duringlunch, for example.
And then there are many clinicswho are in person and a coach
can be working there.
What we are seeing is moredoctors seeing the benefit of
(30:37):
having a health coach in theirpractice, and so when I said
earlier that coaches will be thenew primary care, it is that
they will be the new face ofprimary care.
So you used to have a.
Let's say you're starting outwith your doctor.
You see the coach.
Initially they're like theconcierge.
They introduce you to thepractice, they answer any
(30:59):
preliminary questions.
If forms are challenging tofill out, especially if you're a
functional, integrated man, youget a hundred page form asking
you if you were breastfed orbottle fed, and people get
overwhelmed.
So coaches will help younavigate that and often they're
starting to have you tell yourstory and often they'll begin to
make lifestyle changes evenbefore they see the doctor.
(31:21):
So the idea is the coach isthere, the front end.
They're also there after theconsult, after you've had your
labs and after you've seen thephysician, and then you follow
up with the coach.
It could be individual, itcould be a group visit.
That's a very successful modelbecause then the community
becomes the medicine, so tospeak, and that's where they
(31:44):
answer more questions, help youwith.
You know they don't interpretlab results, but they'll provide
education and they're thatvoice of communication.
They're the bridge ofcommunication back to the doctor
.
So if somebody's non-compliant,if somebody, often they're
monitoring remote devices like,for example, they're wearing a
continuous glucose monitor, andthen the coach will be looking
(32:08):
at that data and they'll bereporting back to the
practitioner any challenges thatare reporting back to the
practitioner, any challengesthat they're seeing, for example
.
So it benefits both thepractice, both the staff, as
well as the patients.
And for the doctor it reallyhelps with exhaustion, with
burnout, because the coach arethe ones that are helping people
(32:30):
, that the question that thedoctor has to answer over and
over again, for example, andthey make their well-meaning but
they just don't have the timeand the coach brings that back.
And what I'm saying is that thecoach is bringing back bedside
manner.
That's the fundamentals ofhealth coach training is bedside
manner where you have rapport,you make eye contact.
(32:53):
For that time you're with thatindividual, they're the most
important person, you are solelyfocused on them and as opposed
to a physician, who's gotthey've got to enter in the
chart, they've got the next,they're running behind, they've
got a whole waiting room full ofpeople and so often that
bedside manner gets lost andmedical schools aren't even
(33:15):
teaching it anymore.
They're teaching diagnosticiansand they use their seeing AI as
the future of medicine.
Well, what happened to bedsidemanner?
William Davis, MD (33:26):
You know, Sandy, I pride myself usually in
being able to foresee trends inthe future.
This one I did not see, Sandy.
Being able to foresee trends inthe future this one I did not
see, Sandy.
That is that health coacheswill become an integral
participant, an important playerin the whole process of
healthcare delivery in medicaloffices.
So that's a really cool trend.
Can you give us some idea aboutthe logistics of your academy,
(33:49):
that is, is there a qualifyingexamination?
Is there?
How long does it take?
Is it year long?
What are the mechanics?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (33:56):
Yeah, it is one year and then one people
.
When they graduate, we have analumni program so they can still
stay with us, they can stillcome to my office hours.
We have mentoring.
We can help them.
We have a concierge service for, let's say, a doctor wants to
hire a coach.
We help that process or usethem as a referrer, refer to
them in the community.
(34:17):
And it's 12 months.
It is all online.
The real heart of the program isour cohort groups, our live
training sessions, so live viaZoom.
These are 10, 12 people.
They have a course facilitatorwho's a former student and they
are learning to be a coach.
This is how I learned when Iwas studying psychology, getting
(34:39):
my phd small group.
It was in person.
Then, uh, you're the coach, I'mthe client, we talk about
something and it becomes veryreal, very powerful those who
use breakout rooms often forthat and then they get feedback
from the course facilitator,from their peers, and they
experience it in so many ways.
We focus on lots of ethicalissues, for example, which also
(35:03):
come from psychology, like youknow.
Okay, let's say you have aclient and they want to take you
out for a date.
Is that ethical?
There's no guidelines in termsof health coaching, but we have
a talk that explores this andsimilar ethical dilemmas that
people run into.
What happens and this hashappened more than I would like
to say.
(35:24):
This was her first time being acoach and she was in a session.
It was kind of like a practicumexperience and just right off
the bat, that first person she'sinteracting with says she wants
to kill herself.
What do you do?
You're a coach, how do youhandle that?
And so we go over.
We have role plays, we havetraining videos that show those
(35:47):
scenarios and how you wouldhandle it, and so it's based on
webinars, as well as these livetraining sessions and what we
call coaching in action, wherewe have a whole series.
In the past we've usedprofessional actors for this.
They're playing clients andthen we show that process from
start to finish and trainingthem in these particular skills
(36:09):
that they need to be aneffective health coach.
William Davis, MD (36:12):
Wow, that's impressive.
Hired actors, huh.
So someone does the course fora year.
Give us an idea what happenspostgraduate.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (36:21):
Sure, so they can choose to sit for the
exam.
They have to log so many hoursof clients and then they are
eligible to sit for the examfrom the National Board for
Health and Wellness Coaching.
And then many of them want tolaunch their own business as a
health coach.
Some are integrating coachingskills and strategies into what
(36:41):
they're already doing.
Let's say, a massage therapist,and she wants to continue with
that, and then the health coachor a personal trainer.
We have doctors who have takenthat and now they know how to
hire coaches.
We have one she's in Texasactually.
She used to teach for theInstitute for Functional
Medicine.
Her name is Dr MargaretChristensen and she studied with
(37:03):
us to become a health coach.
People in her family alsobecame coaches and now she runs
a coaching practice.
And so we have people who havedone that.
They've gotten together andlaunched programs, and many
people want to work for doctorsor they want to work in
corporate wellness.
There's a big need.
(37:23):
Employees can get healthcoaching sessions, and so we
have people doing that.
We also have people who want tohave a larger voice.
They write books and blogs andthey launch podcasts.
So a lot of different things youcan do and some who do it for
their own benefit, they gothrough our program.
(37:45):
They're not interested inbecoming a health coach.
They're interested in theirpersonal health, the health of
their friends, their families,and they're realizing that they
want to get that into aneducation so that they can live
healthier, happier lives.
Because, without a doubt, thosewho go through the program say
(38:05):
you know, I came in and I justthought I would just to become a
health coach to get thatcredential.
I wanted to learn functionalmedicine.
But what they come out with issaying it was a personal
transformation.
And that's largely because ofthe positive psychology piece
and the idea that when you areexperiencing coaching somebody
else, you change for the better,both physiologically as well as
(38:30):
mentally and emotionally.
William Davis, MD (38:33):
It's so cool that you guys are getting access
to corporate wellness, becausethat's where you can impact so
many people.
Give us an idea, Cindy.
What are the logistics ofsigning up for the course?
Where do they go?
What's the next step?
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (38:47):
They can go to
functionalmedicinecoachingorgand they can download an info
packet.
They can set up an appointmentwith one of our admissions
counselors to see if this isright.
We have two classes starting,one March 1st and one September
1st.
We also have specialty coursesthat are available now and more
(39:09):
will be coming out in the future.
William Davis, MD (39:12):
Wow, that's fantastic.
You've been busy.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (39:16):
Yeah, I also have a new book that will
be released very soon.
William Davis, MD (39:18):
Tell us more, tell us more.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (39:19):
That is called your Health Coach Will
See you Now and it talks aboutthe issues that we can't deny
that are plaguing our healthcare system, which is really
sick care, growing physicianshortage, and how health coaches
are really the key, becausethey are the lifestyle change
specialists and to combat theepidemic of chronic disease, it
(39:43):
is not through acute caremedicine, it is through
lifestyle change and that's whatcoaches do what's your
anticipated release date?
Uh, probably the end of March.
William Davis, MD (39:55):
Oh, that soon ?
Yeah, fantastic Congratulations.
That's wonderful.
So we'll have to get you backto talk about the book in a
little bit.
We'd love to Sandy.
Thank you for taking the time.
It's so incredible that I canpractically yell out my window,
sandy, and you would say what doyou want, bill?
But I'm here to support yourefforts because, as you know,
(40:16):
already know, I think, a lot ofthe future of what happens in
this disaster called health,using tools that are typically
neglected by practicingphysicians, like the microbiome
and supplements.
So, sandy, I applaud you.
Thank you for doing everythingyou do.
Sandra Scheinbaum, PhD (40:46):
Thank you for having me.
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