How Does Auto Insurance Work With Gig Economy Drivers, with Dustin Walsey of Buckle

Dustin Walsey, co-founder and President of Buckle Insurance, joins us to talk about all things insurance.

If Buckle is in your state, you can sign up here. If they aren't in your state, you can still sign up and get notified of when they are available. During the interview I misspoke their URL as GetBuckle.com (instead of BuckleUp.com). Dustin said he thought that probably would get you there as well, and it turns out he's right.

If you are a gig economy driver (Doordash, Uber Eats, Grubhub, Instacart, Shipt, Uber, Lyft and many others) this is an incredibly important topic that you MUST pay attention to. A shockingly high number of gig economy drivers are uninsured when out working the apps, especially in the delivery industry.

Buckle Insurance is the first insurance company I'm aware of that was created specifically for the gig economy. They work closely with many of the gig platforms. As of the posting of this episode, they're only in a handful of states but they cover about 30% of the U.S. population.

We cover questions such as:

What is Buckle Insurance and how did they get started?
What are the challenges for a new insurance company trying to get approved to provide coverage in every state?
What kind of coverage does Buckle provide?
Why is delivery considered high risk to insurance if we aren't carrying passengers?
How the explosion of delivery during the pandemic impacts our society and the need to protect contractors who are out in the field
Looking at different types of insurance and how Buckle compares, such as personal policies, rideshare endorsements, commercial policies, and hybrid commercial policies.
When should a person consider full coverage instead of liability only, even if their car is paid off?
How do state insurance regulations and different kinds of risk impact insurance premiums?
What states are served now by Buckle?
What can someone do to make sure they're covered in states Buckle isn't yet serving?
How do credit ratings impact typical premiums and how is it different with Buckle?
What kind of relationship does Buckle have with different gig economy platforms?
What kind of coverage does Buckle provide if you're driving for a platform that Buckle does not have a relationship with?

Buckle is available at GetBuckle.com.  Some products on the website and podcast are ones I have an affiliate relationship with, and if so, I may receive compensation for products purchased.

Comments or questions? Shoot me an email.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Well, Hey everybody, have yougot your taxes done?
As I record this and uploadthis, or hopefully get it
uploaded here today.
It is April 13th and we all knowtax day is April 15th.
So we've got a little bit of areprieve this year.
Not as much as we've had in thelast couple of years.
It was June a couple of yearsago, May last year.

(00:20):
And we're back to April now, butwe do get till the 18th because
of falling on a weekend.
And I believe it's related toEaster weekend, but.
If you haven't got your taxesdone yet, we've got all sorts of
resources and information overat entrecourier.com and you can
just click on tax guide, or ifyou scroll all the way to the
bottom of the page, we've gotall sorts of, categories of all

(00:43):
the different articles and youcan find the, categories for
taxes there.
And so hopefully.
You know, what, what I've triedto do is instead of just giving
you one or two, 10,000 foot viewarticles about, Hey, this is
what taxes are and oh, by theway, remember to track your
miles and all these differentthings, you know, you, can't
just, you can't do it justicewith one article and, you know,

(01:04):
one, you can't cover everything,but two, what you do cover just
isn't covered well enough.
So.
We've taken a differentapproach.
Just trying to get into a lot ofdetail about all different
aspects, about your taxes as anindependent contractor, just to
try and help people understandbecause you know, you might be
looking for information on,well, what kind of miles can I

(01:24):
claim on my taxes?
And somebody else is looking foryou know, um, what is this
Schedule C thing, and how do Ifill out the different fields
for that and stuff.
So we tried to do differentarticles to answer the different
questions out there.
So I hope you find what we'vegot available useful.
Just head over toentrecourier.com and click on

(01:45):
the tax guide or scroll to thebottom and look for the tax
categories.
And, and hopefully you can findwhat you're looking for there.
So, anyway, we're not talkingabout taxes here this weekend on
the podcast.
And speaking of podcast, welcomeback.
Welcome to the deliver on yourbusiness podcast.
And we're glad to have you backagain.
And if you're not familiar withEntrecourier or with deliver on

(02:09):
your business.
Here's what it is in a nutshell,this is what we're all about is
that when you signed up withGrubHub, DoorDash, Uber eats
Instacart, Uber, Lyft, any ofthose you signed, you agreed to
language that says somethingalong the lines of, I agree that
I am providing a service as abusiness and not as an employee.

(02:32):
And my friends, I honestlybelieve that in the gig economy,
you know, a couple of thingsgoing on here.
One, these companies are tryingto weasel out by using
independent contractors.
I don't think there's anyquestion about that.
They want to get out of theirresponsibilities using a massive
workforce, but they don't wantto pay for a massive workforce.

(02:52):
So they go the independentcontractor route.
But, I believe that your bestopportunity to succeed and to do
well in delivery, rideshare,anything in the gig economy is
if you treat that as a business,if you really look at yourself
as a business owner, and that'swhere the name comes from,
deliver on your business.

(03:13):
And that's what we're all aboutis helping you.
You know, if, if there arethings about business, maybe we
can help you understand thosethings.
And if we can just encourage youto take a business attitude,
that's what we're hoping to do.
So welcome, if this is yourfirst time.
Welcome back, if it's not, andwe're going to get into our
episode today here, I'm excitedabout we're talking about today

(03:35):
cause we've got Dustin, makesure I pronounce his name here.
Dustin Walsey.
Who is the co-founder and he'sthe president of Buckle
Insurance.
Buckle insurance is an insurancecompany that was created just
for gig economy, drivers fordelivery, for ride share.
And right now they're the onlyones that I really know of that

(03:56):
do this and, and folks, this is,I I've been hoping to get
somebody from insurance on for along time.
Because it's one thing.
If I try and give you warnings,if I try and tell you this is
how it works, I think it, ithelps you understand insurance a
little bit better if you hear itfrom the mouth of somebody who

(04:17):
is in that industry, you know,and I talk a lot on the website
about how important it is thatyou get the right insurance,
because the fact of the matteris there is a good chance right
now that you are uninsured whenyou're making your deliveries.
There's a real good chance ofthat.
If you don't have the right typeof insurance, most personal

(04:37):
insurance policies, they've gotlanguage in there that says
you're not covered while you'redoing.
You know, most of us think,well, yeah, it makes sense with
ride share, but it's true withdelivery too.
And sometimes it's harder to getinsurance for delivery than it
is for ride share.
And we talk about all sorts ofthings like this.
Why is it this way?
Why, why do the personalinsurance companies not cover

(05:01):
you?
And what type of insurance doyou need to get now?
Obviously Dustin's going to tellyou that you need to get buckle.
Unfortunately, Buckle isn't inevery state right now, as he
talks to us, he says, they'rethere, they're in states right
now where they cover about 30%of the U.S.
Population.
And so that basically means thebiggest states.

(05:25):
I'm in Colorado and they're nothere yet But I am glad to have
somebody on that can just talkabout some of these different
questions about how insuranceworks.
And when we get done, I'll kindof wrap up with a few of my
thoughts as well.
And for now let's, uh, let's getDustin on here.

Ron at EntreCourier (05:42):
Well, Hey everybody.
I am really excited to have aDustin with buckle or get
BuckleUp.com buckle insurance onwith us here.
We want to talk about insurancetoday because insurance is it's.
It's a big issue for a lot ofdelivery drivers and, and it's
probably the biggest issue thatmost of you don't even realize
is an issue out there.

(06:03):
And so.
I think one of the mostimportant things you can do
financially beyond just makingmoney, doing your deliveries is
to make sure that you are not ata tremendous risk when you're
out doing deliveries, becausehere's one of the things that I
think most people don't realizeI'm.
And Dustin, you might have abetter idea of this, but I would

(06:28):
hate to think what percentage ofdelivery drivers are uninsured
while they're doing theirdeliveries, when it all comes
down to it, because they don'trealize maybe their personal
policy doesn't cover them andthat, you know, the delivery
compaines don't really offervery much either if anything, at
all.
And, and that's why I was reallyexcited to see, you know,

(06:49):
started, uh, just seeing somethings about buckle and kind of
being up first in a couple ofstates and they're starting to
grow and as they grow some more,I really love what they're
doing.
Um, because it's, it's aninsurance company that really is
built around the gig economyit's built for delivery,
rideshare drivers, things likethat.

(07:10):
It's a, you know, they probablythe first ones that I know of,
maybe the only ones that I knowof that have really stepped in
to try and fill that gap.
And so I was just really happyto be able to get that Dustin
on.
And Dustin, tell me, I guess,tell us a little bit about
yourself and about how.
How are you guys all got startedwith buckle and, you know, your

(07:31):
role with the company and, uh,you know, what, what prompted
you to get started with buckle?

Dustin Walsey (07:36):
Well, well, first of all, Ron, thank you very much
for having me.
Um, I think you'll find as wehave this discussion today,
there's a true passion, uh, forit and for what buckle does for
what I do with the company andthe the overall gig economy in
general.
So, excited to be on yourprogram here.
Um, really what buckle is thoughis it's a, you know, financial

(07:57):
services platform and inclusivefinancial services platform for
the gig economy.
Where we're really initiallyfocused on insurance.
And, you, you asked a bunch ofquestions right there, but
really what started, as a, asimple thesis in the early days
as insurance for Uber drivers,because that was really the
first gig economy company outthere that revolutionized the

(08:19):
way people move around.
Fast forward to today, and, youknow, delivery has become a
massive piece of, the gigeconomy and it's just not food
delivery, but it's packages,it's prescription drugs.
It's, it's pretty much anythingthat needs to get to the house.
So, what buckle is reallyfocused on is how do we support

(08:41):
these drivers who support theworld?
So, you know, as I said, bucklegot started in the Uber Lyft
world.
And now today we work with, youknow, all of, most of the
delivery companies across thecountry.
Um, you mentioned where at abunch of states right now, as we
continue to roll out across thecountry, but the idea is to help
these drivers, acquireassurance, insurance that covers

(09:04):
their vehicle, which is probablytheir most important asset they
own, because not only is itworth something, but it helps
them generate revenue andprotect them so that they have
the peace of mind that they canoperate and, really, drive how
they want when they want, wherethey want, whether it's for
work, whether it's on a gigeconomy, whether it's running an
air and taking a kid to schoolon a family vacation and really

(09:26):
simplifying the process of the,of the insurance policy.

Ron at EntreCourier (09:31):
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
And I'm glad you guys are there.
Uh, just, uh, you know, I, Iwish you guys could hurry up and
get into all the states, butyou're working on that.
I know that, but

Dustin Walsey (09:39):
Yeah, we cover, I think we covered like roughly
about 30% of the population ofthe U S population right now.
Um, you know what I tell peopleall the time, a challenge with
insurance is it's regulated atthe state.
Not at the federal level.
So every state is pretty muchlike operating into its own
country so there's differentrules, there's different, rating
factors.

(09:59):
There's all.
All different things that haveto go into operate every state.
And that's just, that's why it'sa slower process versus just
being in all 50 states at once,which trust me as much as you
want to be in all 50 states sodo I.

Ron at EntreCourier (10:11):
I'm sure you yeah.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of hoops I'msure to, to jump through as part
of that, just, and, and, andevery hoop is different.
So.

Dustin Walsey (10:21):
And every state operates completely differently,
both.
Uh, as I said, rates, rules,forums, politically, the way
people are elected or appointedand, and the whole process is
it's a real challenge.
Um, and.
It's a lot of energy to rollinto new states.

Ron at EntreCourier (10:37):
Does that, why, like you mentioned being in
30% of the population, does thatkind of enter into, I guess, um,
your strategy for how you choosewhich states to go after next is
just trying to cover as much ofthe population as possible.
I would imagine California isgoing to be ahead of Nebraska as
far as priority for some.

Dustin Walsey (10:55):
Yeah.
I mean, so yes, it's absolutelywhere the people are, is where
there's more deliveries beingmade.
So that makes sense.
Um, some of the states are moredifficult to get in from a
regulatory standpoint, so theytake longer.
So California is a longerprocess, for example, than say
Texas.
So that is all taken intoaccount, but there's no doubt
about it, where the people are,is where the demand.

Ron at EntreCourier (11:18):
Where you want to be, sure.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat insurance cuz I've made the
comment and I've, I've beenbeating this drum for three
years since I started thewebsite that guys, you got to
pay attention to your insurance.
Because, most personal policieshave exclusions in there that
say, we're not going to coveryou if you're on a delivery or
for commercial purposes.

(11:39):
And, I don't think most peoplerealize, I think they think
we're not doing rideshare.
We don't have people in the car.
So why would we need to dosomething different with
insurance?
So talk to us a little bit aboutthat whole issue and what kind
of, what, what kind of things dopeople need to look for in their
insurance?

Dustin Walsey (11:57):
Ron you're a hundred percent, right.
Um, there is a lot of exclusionsfor personal auto policies when
drivers are doing commercialactivities.
Uh, so first of all, veryspecifically, I would encourage
everybody to read the fine printof an insurance policy, which by
the way, is an awful experience.
It's thick.
It's, it's confusing, but.

(12:17):
Pretty basically, uh, personalpolicies do not cover delivery.
They don't cover rideshareeither.
Um, if you were to talk to yourinsurance agent and be
forthright from that with them,they would probably explain
that.
Uh, there are situationsdepending on who you deliver
for, for, the delivery networkcompany may extend some

(12:40):
liability coverage.
They may not, and you've got tolook within each one of those
companies, what they are willingto offer, not, but the vast
majority, if not all of them donot protect the driver's car,
they're really protecting theliability.
If the delivery driver was torun into something.
Eh, it caused damage fatalities.

(13:00):
Those things.
Those tend to get covered morefrequently than not, but it is a
very confusing process.
And what buckles really tryingto solve is, Hey, how do you
protect the driver with thedriver's best interest in mind?
How do you protect the wholeentire ecosystem?
Who we're all dependent on allthese goods and services being
delivered to us, and then thebroader public and do this in a

(13:23):
manner that a is easy tounderstand.
And B is affordable, because atrue, you know, commercial
policy is expensive, but mostdrivers do not do this full-time
they tend to be part-time jobsin, uh, in, in most of the
United States.
So how do we support this in away that makes it easy and
affordable for them to do.

Ron at EntreCourier (13:44):
Sure.
So if you're not covered on yourpersonal policy and let's talk
about some of the differentcompanies or something like
that, and you can kind of let usknow if, if you feel comfortable
talking about any of them, asfar as.
What kind of quality coveragethey do provide, if any?

Dustin Walsey (14:02):
Yeah.
Well, I would, I would telleverybody to go directly to the
companies and I don't want togive that advice.
Things change quite frequentlyas well.
They need to go read.
I mean, just, you know, you goto any of the delivery network,
company sites, you know, searchfor insurance, they'll say what
they provide, what they don'tprovide.
Um, but it is, it is verydifferent across every single

(14:26):
company.

Ron at EntreCourier (14:27):
Yeah, it is an and I, and that is something
that you.
I mean, um, guys, you got totake a look at all this stuff.
You've got to first take a lookat your personal policy.
You know, I've when I did thefew policies I've looked at,
usually the first place I go tolook is in the exclusions, which
is usually at the back.
Although like one insurancecompany I had, they had

(14:49):
exclusions over every singletype of policy.
So, you know, you got to dosearching yet.
Look for things like commercialreferences to.
Commercial insurer or commercialdriving commercial use livery
is, is a very common term thatI've seen, um, which is
transporting people or goods forservices.
So the fact that you're notcarrying peopledoesn't mean

(15:11):
anything.

Dustin Walsey (15:12):
You're still doesn't mean you're, you're
correct.
Right.
And I will tell you most, if notall personal auto policies
exclude this type of driving,some of the, larger, personal
auto carriers will allow for anendorsement for food delivery
that might lower the deductibleand might do some additional
things, but it is not a completepolicy.
And where Buckle stands alone iswe are out there to cover the

(15:34):
driver no matter who they'redriving with, how they're
driving, in, in a way that itworks for them, for them.

Ron at EntreCourier (15:40):
Yeah.
Why, why is it that, you know,if you're not carrying people,
if all you got is just foodsitting on your side, why is it
that these insurance companiesdon't provide coverage?

Dustin Walsey (15:51):
Well, most people would agree and the industry
would tell you the longer a caris on the road, the higher
likelihood for an accident tohappen.
Right.
Um, like anything else.
So obviously when someone'susing their vehicle to deliver.
Food, the car is on the roadmore than if I was just driving,
you know, running an errand,going out to dinner, doing my

(16:13):
own thing.
So there there's that componentof it all, but a, uh, the
financial services industry andthe delivery industry is when
that car is being used in acommercial fashion.
Uh, the, the, the financialinsurance infrastructure just
isn't there to support it.
And that's where buckle hasbuilt our gigpolicy.
And it really takes the best ofpersonal auto and the best of

(16:36):
commercial auto smartly combinesthem together to allow the
driver to do what they want todo.
So that's, that's really wherethis has come from and, um, and
it it's just an solution to anindustry that's absolutely
exploding over the next.
Five years, it's going to be ahuge part of our gross domestic

(16:56):
product.
I mean, the amount of goods andservices that are delivered to
my house and to everybody'shouses is, is unbelievable.
Um, and, and again, onlygrowing.

Ron at EntreCourier (17:06):
Yeah.
And I think it's going tocontinue because right now, you
know, it's, I mean, it startedoff mostly, you know, food
restaurant delivery and, andthat blew up during the
pandemic.
It was already getting prettybig, um, But now everybody's
trying to get into groceries ortrying to get into other
products.
And, you know, you've got a lotof, uh, regional companies

(17:29):
starting to just pop upeverywhere that are, you know,
all sorts of different niches.
And, and, uh, even if fooddelivery levels out, you know,
which is where a lot of, youknow, my listeners are from,
there's a lot of other thingsthat are just going to grow up
like crazy.
And it all kind of fits underthat same definition, as far as
your you're doing livery work,you're doing commercial work.

Dustin Walsey (17:51):
Oh yeah.
And the grocery business isgoing to be explosive, explosive
growth over the next few years.
Um, you know, if it's call it 5%of all their revenue right now
is delivered, or maybe less thanthat, you know, I've got to
think over the next five years,it's going to be 20, 30, 40%.
And these, uh, companies aregonna need drivers that deliver

(18:12):
this to our houses.
Um, and it's only gonna be.
Expand, not just to groceries,but all to home goods, all our,
you know, from toothpaste totoilet paper, uh, I mean from
products that are sold atWalmart and home Depot and best
buy, they're all going to bedelivered to our house.
And it's, it's, it's amazing towatch this happen.

(18:32):
And it's exciting to be in themiddle of it all in the, you
know, which is the forefront of,you know, this, this growing
workforce.
That's going to be a, uh, adominant player in, uh, in our
country for years.

Ron at EntreCourier (18:45):
Yeah, it really is.
It's, uh, you know, in all ofthis discussion going on totally
a different rabbit hole we coulddive down about, um, you know,
should you be employees shouldbe contractors.
Are you running a business?
Are you not running a businessor something like that, but it's
just the way that this has allblown up though.
The independent contractor modelactually works real well when

(19:07):
you start to look at it as,okay, I can do this delivery for
Curri.
I can do this delivery forDoordash, and then I can run out
and do a catering order forDeliverThat or something like
that.
So, yeah.

Dustin Walsey (19:17):
Or I can take the day off and I don't have to work
today.
And then I can go to it's thedemocratization of work right
now.
And it's an incrediblephenomenon.
That's happening.
Oh.

Ron at EntreCourier (19:27):
And I think it was a lifesaver that we had
this during the pandemic,because how many people got laid
off or, you know, are just notable to do much else.
But they could go jump in theircar and do, you know, a few
deliveries or a lot ofdeliveries.

Dustin Walsey (19:44):
Ron, this is interesting.
And if you've heard me in thepast, you know, my partner who I
started this with Marty Younghe's, you know, ex military west
point, you know, very, veryfocused on the veterans and all
those things.
But what, what the takeaway I'veseen of what the gig economy and
the delivery driver is, theywere the soldiers on our war

(20:05):
against COVID and the pandemic.
And when everybody was at home,these people were out really
working hard, delivering.
Our goods and services, keepingour country going.
And, you know, there's a,there's a place in our heart as
a, as buckle for these, thesepeople.
Um, and you'll see us refer tothem as members because, uh,
they, they just did so much forus.

(20:26):
And yeah.
Listen the pandemic made the gigeconomy what it is today and it
just turbocharged its adoptioninto the world.
Whereas my parents would havenever used door dash or
Instacart five years ago now areregular users of it and use it.
And that changed the way wechanged our habits and our
buying patterns and stuff.
So it's, it's fascinating.

Ron at EntreCourier (20:47):
Yeah.
I hate to think if this hadhappened 10 years ago, where we
would be, because.
You know, the voice over IPtechnology, the, you know, the,
this, this whole zoom type thingthat you can do.
Uh, all of that stuff was notanywhere near as well-developed
and, and, and being able to workfrom home, being able to have
that infrastructure in placethat could.

(21:10):
You know, some of it in placeand some of it able to grow up
around it to be able to handleall those things related to
everybody being at home is justhuge.

Dustin Walsey (21:19):
But also the company's help spinning up, spin
up these restaurants that neverin a million years have been
able to handle this type ofdelivery and the logistics and
getting the drivers and puttingall those pieces together.
It's it's it's it's.
It really is.

Ron at EntreCourier (21:33):
It has been an interesting time to be alive.
And especially being in thisindustry, when that all
happened, I want to talk alittle bit more just about
coverage and things like that,because I think it's really
important people to understandsome things like that.
So I'm thinking of, let's saymaybe there's a delivery company
that they say they offerliability insurance, and what's

(21:55):
the difference between somethinglike that and having a
commercial policy.

Dustin Walsey (22:03):
Okay, great question.
And I caveat again, you've gotto read the fine print of the
delivery company.
So first let me answer it from abuckle perspective, then I'll
answer it if you don't havebuckle.
So w what buckle does is we workwith the driver.
They tell us the deliverycompany they're working for, and
then we provide coverage.
No matter how they're driving,whether again, whether they're

(22:23):
doing a delivery, if they'redoing something on their
personal time, we cover.
They're waiting for the deliveryto be dispatched to them,
whether they're picking up thefood or package all to the
delivery, to the houseworkoffice, wherever it's going to
be.
And that is all covered.
It's covered in a very simple tounderstand that.

(22:45):
$500 deductible.
Do you want physical damagecoverage?
Do you?
They all comes with liabilitycoverage.
Do you want uninsured motoristall the, the, the traditional
coverages that you could get ona personal policy?
We capture that in ourcommercial.
And that policy becomes theprimary policy that the driver

(23:05):
uses.
So if there's any accident, ifthere's any questions, if
there's anything whatsoever, youpick up the phone, you call
buckle.
Our claims team gets involvedand we adjudicate these claims
as fast as possible.
Get these drivers back on theroad.
So they're start earning theirmoney.
Again, these drivers, their cargoes down, their cars go down,
they lose income.
So time truly is money to thesepeople.

(23:27):
Take the flip side with a, justa random personal auto policy.
Um, and an accident occurs.
You are at the whim of a, yourpersonal auto and how they
handle it.
And then B, if they deny theclaim, which most of them will,
then you have to go to thedelivery company and deal with.
And, uh, quite commonly, theywill not cover your car

(23:51):
whatsoever.
So, you know, a bumper or afender bender, you know, a total
loss that it will turn out to beon the driver.
A lot of times they cover someform of liability.
Sometimes they don't.
And it's just a case by case, bycase, by case.
I do believe over time, it willnormalize.
And, um, you know, this will,there'll be, you know, buckle

(24:13):
and other companies will evolveand be able to step in front and
help these drivers more andmore.
But today, uh, we really are theonly player out there that does
this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And again, and I, and I saythis, it's it.
Uh, it's a little, you know, itcosts a little more for a buckle
policy.
Put your asset your car, yourrevenue source is protected.

(24:34):
And I mean, you lose a car andit's a total loss.
I mean, that's expensive andthere's no coverage.
I mean, it's, it's not good foranybody in the end of the day.

Ron at EntreCourier (24:45):
Well, and so like, here's kind of the
difference too, is let's sayyou're, you just dropped off an
order and you're driving to getback to a hot spot.
You're getting back to a placewhere there's a lot more
restaurants, so you can getbetter orders.
Uh, but you still got the appturned on and you'd plow into
somebody.
Maybe you're looking at yourphone and, and, uh, you know,
trying to see what's up with anapp and you don't notice this

(25:06):
car over here, you plow intothem.
It's completely your fault.
And now there's this guessinggame between, you know, one,
what stage of delivery are youin?
Is, is Doordash or grub hub orsomebody is, does their, does
their liability cover you atthat time or not?
Because you didn't have food inthe car or you weren't on the

(25:28):
way to a delivery.
Um, if you're on Uber eats,there's a little more coverage,
you know, to my understanding.
But even then there are a lot ofgaps.
And so there's, there's thisguessing game involved.
And then there's all thequestions about your own
insurance But I think one of thethings that I've noticed and you
can correct me if I'm wrong, butI've, you know, there's a couple

(25:48):
of companies that they say,well, we've got, you know, a
million dollars of liabilitycoverage or something like that,
but it seems like that'sdifferent than having an actual
commercial auto or auto policyin your name, because basically
it's in the name of thatcompany.

(26:09):
Yeah, you're not personally.

Dustin Walsey (26:12):
You hit the nail right on the head is the named
insured with buckle would be thedriver.
Uh, the named insured with thedelivery companies is the
delivery company.
Uh, so that is, that is thedifference.
So, you know, we're there forthe driver and recovered their
vehicle.

(26:33):
Yeah.

Ron at EntreCourier (26:33):
And here's, here's where, I mean, here's
where I think it makes a hugedifference if you're going to
rely on.
XYZ delivery companiesliability.
You know, you, you know thatthey don't have any coverage for
your car, or I hope, you know,you should know that, but even
if you created the damage andnow all of a sudden, you know,
there's a hundred thousanddollars that has to be paid

(26:54):
somewhere.
And if your insurance doesn'tcover you, they're coming after
you then.
So if, if you've got.
And Buckle says, we're not goingto cover you.
There's still some recourse, youknow, there's state insurance
commission, there's all sorts ofthings where you can appeal that
down the line If you're relyingon, you know, XYZ deliveries

(27:18):
companies and they just say,yeah, we don't think you're
covered here or something likethat because you're not a named
insured.
You've got a lot less recourseto.

Dustin Walsey (27:29):
Yeah, I believe that's a fair statement, but,
uh, you know, again, ours isdesigned for the driver, not for
the, you know, cause that's thedriver in mind and everything on
their vehicle, uh, and thedamage they.
Yeah.
And again, we, and I think thisactually another important stick
distinction.
So we actually work with all thestates and the state department
of insurance to get approved, todo business within their state.

(27:53):
Very specifically for deliveryfor livery, you know, people
products, good services.
And the states admit us intotheir, uh, into, as an admitted
carrier.
So they stand behind us as well.
So it's just a it's, it's thatbuffer, it's that protection.
It's that peace of mind that weget to bring to the driver that
makes this, that makes ourproduct work.

(28:15):
And it makes us special in myopinion,

Ron at EntreCourier (28:17):
I think so, too.
Um, you know, and here's thething I think with delivery guys
that.
I think a lot of times peopleget this idea.
Well, there's not as much riskbecause you're not hauling
people.
I think there's a lot of wayswhere there's actually more
risk.
We're stopping more often.
We are getting out of the carmore often, you know, and, and,
and think about it.
If you're pulling over to pickup a passenger, they're getting

(28:39):
in, usually off the street side,if you're jumping out of your
car to take food up the door,all of a sudden you're swinging
your door out into traffic, youknow, you're stopping, you're
pulling in, you're pulling out.
And a lot of these companies areputting so much pressure on
drivers, too.
I have the food delivered withina certain timeframe, or they
might get a contract violationand, you know, time, um, you

(29:03):
know, and, and it's just all ofthat stuff that I think there,
there may be more risks withdelivery than just doing
rideshare.

Dustin Walsey (29:11):
Maybe not bored.
How about differences?
Different, maybe different is,is right, but I I'm sure there's
plenty of doors that get hit offas they open the door and the
car drives by and smashes intoit.
It's not funny, but you know,it's, but it's, it's real.
It's real, you know, Food andpackage is a little different
than people because there tendsto be a tighter radius around

(29:32):
restaurants.
For example, I'm not havingfood, that's delivered an hour
away versus, you know, an Uberor Lyft who picks you up at the
airport and might drive you 60miles and then have to come back
with the door dash offers.
I see.
Really, sometimes it's crazy,but I think you're right.
I live in, I live in Atlanta.
I tend to order with, you know,within a two or three mile
radius.

(29:52):
Okay, but, but you know, it'sgroceries, but groceries and,
you know, you got companies likegoPuff that deliver in tighter
radiuses and you know, you'vegot, uh, you know, the, the
grocery store companies.
They're not delivering acrossthe town.
They tend to have it all dialedup and tightened up really well.
So it's just a different riskprofile, but it's a different
driver.
They might spend more time inhigher conduct congested areas

(30:14):
versus rural.
It is so different.
And it's one of the challengesthat we face at buckle is
because all the drivers are alldifferent.
The delivery companies operatedifferently.
Some work on shifts, some workon, on a per fare basis or a per
trip basis.
Some have broad, you know, likeI only deliver.
Three to seven or 10 miles froma central point at some might

(30:35):
go, as far as the eye can see,you know, so it's all different.
And, and the challenge is thisindustry is evolving so rapidly
is how do we stay nimble?
And up-to-date with the latestand greatest, because there's
probably 50 companies that I'venever heard of that are getting
ready to start that are cominginto this space that are
delivering all types of thingsand that are rapidly growing and

(30:58):
the various.
Okay.

Ron at EntreCourier (31:01):
When you think about it, I think all of
that, and it's just this,especially nowadays there's,
there's, uh, you know, inflationjust going crazy.
And of course, gas right now,gas is just shooting up and.
Kind of when there's all thosepressures on a driver, you know,

(31:22):
like you mentioned, you, you,you said this a little bit ago
that you might not be, you mighthave to pay a little bit more to
get a buckle policy than whatyou got to pay for your home
policy.
Um, how does the driver kind ofreconcile that, that it's like,
everything else is costing more?
Why should I pay more somewhereelse now?
Because it's getting harder andharder because of the increasing

(31:44):
price.

Dustin Walsey (31:45):
Well, you mentioned inflation.
Interestingly, the phenomenonthat's going on in our lifetime
right now is actually used.
Car prices are actually goingup.
Cars are appreciating.
So, uh, Hey, if your car isgetting more valuable, there's
more reason to protect it,right?
There's greater equity in thevehicle for every single driver.
So to protect that asset withouta doubt, um, the, the other

(32:09):
thing is when something badhappens to fix that car is more
expensive.
So if you don't have the propercoverage and you have to come
out of pocket to fix your owncar, that is even a, a larger
burden.
Uh, so you know, you take thosetwo factors.
It's in our view, really worththe peace of mind and the
additional coverage to make surethat that asset a is protected

(32:31):
correctly.
It's fixed fast.
It's repaired it's on the roadand it's done in a way that is
safe and.
And works for everybody, but,uh, it's it's I get it.
And it's, it's a hard time.
And, you know, I see you seedelivery companies are starting
to add some fuel surcharges andhopefully that could continue to
do so.
Uh, cause I mean, gas is avariable cost is a, is a real

(32:53):
cost to these drivers.
Um, we tell drivers as well,when we talk about.
I know we talked to, you know,that we live in an independent
contractor world, you know,depreciation expenses or things
that they need to look into aswell with inflation and how that
all plays out.
So, you know, as, as you lookinto this world, that's getting
more expensive for these driversto operate protecting though

(33:14):
what's so important to them, Ithink is the most.

Ron at EntreCourier (33:17):
Oh, I think so.
And in fact, I think that as theprices are, as, as, as some of
these price pressures becomeeven harder, I think it makes it
more important that you makesure you got yourself covered.
I saw him, you know, there, youmay have seen this meme kind of
popping up in a few places nowwhere, um, it said something
like, uh, okay, so you can'tafford the gas or you're going

(33:41):
to go out and pay$50,000 on anelectric vehicle, you know?
And the idea that behind, andit's something that I've been
saying.
I said, it's like, okay, ifyou're already thinking of
buying a car, that's somethingto consider, but to respond to a
dollar a gallon increase in gasby buying a new car and spending

(34:01):
thousands upon thousands ofdollars may not always be the
best choice, but, you know, and,and the whole point that I bring
that up for is that it's like,guys, if you have trouble making
it on what amounts to about a20, 20 cent per delivery
increases, what the average is,kind of come out to, if you have
trouble making it on, how areyou going to afford something

(34:27):
happening to your car?
If you don't have the right kindof coverage?
You know, I think that it'slike, you got to kind of think
of it in terms of, you know, ifit's maybe 30 or 50 or a hundred
dollars more per month for thatinsurance.
If you break that down over theyear and over all the deliveries
that you do, especially ifyou're doing this like full
time, it doesn't really makethat much of a difference.

(34:50):
But what happens if you're notproperly covered?
It could be devastating.

Dustin Walsey (34:55):
Catastrophic.
Yeah.
I mean, a total loss is, uh, issomething that can haunt you
forever.
There's a reason insuranceexisted to cover our vehicles
and, um, you know, for people tolose their source of income
because the car wasn't coveredproperly is, uh, it, it hurts.
It hurts, it hurts the driver,it hurts the whole ecosystem.

(35:17):
So, you know, hopefully overtime, um, you know, gas prices
will go down.
Uh, car prices will stabilizeand, um, you know, insurance
rates will not be as expensiveand it, it.
It covers these drivers in a waythat they truly can afford
everything and that theycontinue to support the world

(35:38):
and deliver the goods andservices that we all love to
have that show up at our houseevery time.
Sure, sure.
Every day.
Um,

Ron at EntreCourier (35:49):
let's talk about different types of
insurance because, um, I've gota 10 year old SUV.
Okay.
It's fully paid for and, um,When would, I want to consider
getting just a liability policyand when would I want to
consider getting the fullcoverage, which I hear a lot of

(36:12):
people say it doesn't make senseto get full coverage on that old
of a car or something like that.
How does decision that,

Dustin Walsey (36:21):
I mean, that truly is a cost, you know,
analysis or across, straight offbenefit that needs to be made.
So, you know, determining whatthat car is worth, whether it
paid off, I mean, is it worth$7,000?
Is it worth$17,000?
You know, you look at.
And then you balance thatagainst the cost of the full
coverage or the physical damageis the term to use to, to ensure

(36:44):
that car and the, and themonthly or annual cost
associated that and to, to makean assessment to see is it worth
it?
Um, you know, I don't know whatthat number is.
I think it's different foreverybody, but, uh, um, you
know, my guess is thatten-year-old, car's worth more
than you realize right now.
Um, if, uh, Uh, with inflationwith the chip shortages, with

(37:09):
supply chain issues, all ofthese things, those cars are
becoming more and more valuableand protecting them is, is real.
So, uh, and, and on top of ittoday, accidents are taking
longer to get these cars fixed.
So if a body shop used to beable to turn a car in a week,
now it's taking two, threeweeks, we're taking five and
that is all time that's costmoney.

(37:29):
And, uh, so it's, it's assessingthat and it's assessing.
The best way to, uh, uh, to, tovalue that is I think an
individual decision foreverybody, but, uh, um, it's,
that's a, that's a hard one andit just comes down to what the,
the value of the car is toreplace.

Ron at EntreCourier (37:45):
And I think ultimately it kind of comes down
to a question that you just gotto ask yourself if, if something
happened to your car, What, youknow, what position are you in?
Uh, and especially if you usingyour car to run your business,
you're, you're making yourliving off of that.

(38:05):
Um, what does that do to you?
And if you don't have the cashto pay for that repair, or you
don't have a backup car, whatdoes that do to you financially?
It's even more than that,because now you can't make.
Because of that.
And so I think that's somethingthat you just have to ask
yourself, how well are you ableto cover whatever it costs to

(38:26):
get it fixed so that you canback on the road.
Um, and, and if, if, if that'sgoing to be hard, if not
impossible, and now all of asudden you can't make any money.
Maybe it makes sense to get moreof a full coverage or something.

Dustin Walsey (38:42):
Yes.
And, um, you know, also in thatevaluation process, looking at
the various deductible amounts,right.
So, uh, Um, you know, 500, athousand dollar deductible that
all plays into the rates and thecost of insurance.
Uh, I do know, you know, Uberand Lyft have more strict, uh,
car requirements than thedelivery companies, just because

(39:05):
passengers versus food or are alittle different.
So some of that might be in theevaluation process.
So if your car is getting readyto age out, even though it's
paid in full and you might notbe able to use it for, you know,
deliver.
That might be a deciding factor.
So there's a lot of things thatgo into it and, uh, it, it takes
some time and, uh, and, andlaying out the pros and cons.

Ron at EntreCourier (39:25):
Sure, sure.
You know, and actually even Ihad a.
98 Buick and, uh, at one pointit even aged out on Uber eats
because they've got an elementof coverage since they're under
Uber, you know, and becausethey're providing a certain
amount of coverage on that, youknow, they've got I probably

(39:45):
every right to have requirementson the car, I would think.
Um, but so let's talk about ifsomebody gets into an accident,
um, And you're not sure aboutyour insurance.
Um, there's a lot of advice inFacebook groups and on Reddit

(40:06):
that says, oh, just don't tellthem that you were doing food
delivery.
Talk to me about that, whetherthat's a good idea how that
works.

Dustin Walsey (40:17):
Um, I've been so honesty in my world is I was
always taught is the bestpractice.
Um, when, you know, people drivewithout the proper coverage, you
know, maybe there, there isinherent risk.
Um, do I believe that verycommonly, that drivers are

(40:40):
driving on a personal autopolicy, an accident occurs and
they.
They aren't truthful about whatthey're doing.
Does that occur?
Absolutely.
Yes.
I think what we're starting tosee though is the personal auto
carriers and the companies arestarting to wise up to it.
They're starting to understandwhat's going on and figuring out

(41:01):
different ways to investigatereally what's happening, um, in
their claims handling process toreally understand what the
driver was doing.
Um, so I think, I think, uh, astime moves on, uh, The personal
auto carriers are going to getsmarter and smarter.
Um, so I think that that's onepiece.
Um, and, and again, it's, it'slike everything, if you.

(41:26):
Want to roll the dice.
Sometimes you can win.
Sometimes you can lose and thelosses, the losses are severe.
I will tell you for the greatergood of society, if you'll put
on that hat, if you don't tellthe truth to your insurance
provider, everybody pays for it.
Eventually all of our costs ofinsurance, right?
Someone is going to pay out atsome point, if there is.

(41:48):
Uh, someone not being truthfulto their insurance carrier.
So it goes into all of ourinsurance rates over time.
So eventually the ecosystem, Ibelieve we'll work it out self
out.
I think there's legislation thata lot of the departments of
insurance are starting toevaluate for delivery.
Uh, coming in the years aheadthat will help regulate this
better.
Very similar to the way Uber andLyft have been regulated.

(42:11):
And a very specific aroundinsurance.
Um, but, uh, but again, I mean,I'd be naive to tell you if it
just, it, that does not happen.
The beauty about buckle is youget to tell you don't have to
worry about it.
Don't have to worry about it.

Ron at EntreCourier (42:26):
And I think there's probably a difference
too, between maybe notvolunteering information and
actively lying, but, you know,here's, I guess kind of the
question, cause I, I see peoplesay this all the time and they
say, well, how are they going toknow how an insurance company
going to figure out that I'mdelivering.

Dustin Walsey (42:46):
You know, the, the, the carriers are they're
getting smarter, right?
So you might have telematics inyour car that they're able to
look at that finds uniquepatterns.
Um, police reports are typicallyrequired and maybe something was
disclosed to the police officeror disclosed by someone that
they hit.
That says, Hey, they werepulling out of a restaurant or

(43:07):
they were doing something elsethat gets, you know, flagged in
the police report.
So there's all of these littletriggers that are starting to
occur as the world.
And as the industry gets smarterbecause you know, all this
delivery is becoming somainstream.
So the, the world learns and,um, and it's just all slowly
catching.

Ron at EntreCourier (43:27):
Do you know, if these insurance
companies can subpoena the, uh,delivery companies to find out
if, whether or not they were onthe, on the clock or logged in
or anything like that, or didthe company's cooperator?

Dustin Walsey (43:40):
I do not know.
I think it's different probablyfor every single company.

Ron at EntreCourier (43:45):
All right.
I, you know, and my personalfeeling is.
And I'm definitely not a shillfor insurance companies.
I think most of them, uh, infact, that one of the reasons I
think I've kind of gotten thisbandwagon is because most of
these insurance companies, ifthere is a reason for them to
get out of paying a claim,they're going to find that

(44:06):
reason, you know?
And so, and sometimes I think.
You know, I, I understand it onone side.
Uh, but I also understand that,you know, sometimes it's going
to be like, you know, they wantto have the money coming in and
not have to pay the money out ifthey can avoid it.
And if we're giving them abuilt-in excuse, you know, it

(44:28):
just doesn't make a lot ofsense.
So I think that's why I alwayskind of advise people, at least
it's, it's not, because I thinkyou ought to be paying more for
insurance.
I think it's because.
You got to protect yourself.

Dustin Walsey (44:42):
Just remember though.
I think, uh, the, what I, theway I always think about it is
insurance companies are in thebusiness of, you know, paying
out losses and taking risk andthey just want to be paid for
the risk that they're taking.
Right.
And if that is remembered, theytend to operate in a really good
fashion.
Again, they're all very it's avery, very regulated industry.

(45:03):
By the various, you know, statesat the government, you know, at
the state level.
So I think there's really goodcontrols in place.
They just, they want it.
They just want to get thepremium paid for the risk that
they.

Ron at EntreCourier (45:14):
Yeah, I guess I got to remember, I'm
talking to somebody from aninsurance company.
Yeah.
But

Dustin Walsey (45:18):
I mean, but you know, like you take a taxi, like
a taxi is moving people around.
It needs to be more expensivethan when I'm not a taxi.
Right.
And there's all those pieces andthe cars on the road, you know,
a normal, personal auto policy.
If I drive out, I don't know,I'm on the road two hours a day,
but you know, a delivery drivercould be on seven and they want
to be, the insurance companywants to be paid for that

(45:40):
additional risk because.
Again, the longer that cars onthe road, the higher likelihood
of an accident occurring.
So, you know, they, they want tojust make sure that that's
covered correctly.

Ron at EntreCourier (45:49):
Well, and by law, I think, and you can
explain this a little better,but I think by law you have to
charge enough to be able tokeep, you know, one to keep
solvent, but two to make surethat you're able to cover those
losses.

Dustin Walsey (46:05):
Well, that's right.
And that's where the regulationcomes into place.
So I mentioned a few minutes agothat, you know, we use an
admitted framework, which meansthat the state looks at our
rates, our rules or forms.
They approve everything wecharge to, uh, to the, our, our
members of the drivers to thegeneral public.
Um, and they test our financialviability constantly because if

(46:27):
God forbid something happens.
To the financial solvency of aninsurance carrier, the state
will step in and pay thoseclaims on the behalf of the
carrier if the insolvencyoccurs.
So it's in it's in every state'sbest interest to really have a
fair, uh, relationship with thecarriers, the insured, the

(46:48):
people, the taxpayers, and allthe likes.
So it's, um, that's, that'swhere the regulation is really.
Um, it makes it very difficultto, to, to work, uh, because
you're, you're dealing withregulated, you know, government
entities that make sure thatwe're doing everything by the
book.
We just, we just can't justchange rates at a whim.
There has to be justification.

(47:10):
That's submitted to all thestates that then approve those
rate changes, uh, based onlosses, based on changing
economic conditions, changing,you know, factors.
So it's very, very tightly,right.

Ron at EntreCourier (47:22):
Okay.
And that's good to know.
I mean, that's, you know, Ithink that's what a lot of
people don't understand is, likeyou said, you can't just do it
on the whim.
It's not just because, oh, Iwant to get money it's because
all of those things with that, Ididn't know.

Dustin Walsey (47:35):
It's the same reason why we're not in all 50
states because they're all thestates are evaluating what we're
doing, how we're doing ourbusiness practices.
I mean, Uh, everything beforethey even let us operate within
the state.
So it's, it's really, it's, it'sreally unique in that sense of
how the insurance companiesoperate with it.

(47:56):
In the end of the day, with apartnership with the, you know,
the state legislatures.

Ron at EntreCourier (48:01):
Mmm hmm.
Since you mentioned that, let'stalk about that a little bit.
You said, you know, we're not inall 50 states, you're in about
30% of the population coverage.
Um, what.
Where are you right now?
Um, do you kind of have a listof some of the states that
you're in or?

Dustin Walsey (48:20):
Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna come off memory, so it
could be a little off here orthere because it's not, it's
not, it's a little bit of ahodgepodge as you bounce around.
It's not a continuous likefootprint.
Uh, so let's see Georgia,Tennessee, Illinois, the DC
area, Pennsylvania.
Texas, I believe in the nextweek or two we're Florida.

(48:41):
Um, are, are, the states rightnow, and then rolling further
from there.

Ron at EntreCourier (48:45):
Okay.
Now, when you say DC area, isthat just in DC itself or does
that cover like NorthernVirginia?

Dustin Walsey (48:52):
Yeah, it's that, it's the, uh, you know, the tri,
even though it's two states, theTri-City area, so, um, uh, but
you know, and, uh, and rapidlygrowing.

Ron at EntreCourier (49:03):
Yeah.
So with that in mind, causeyou're not, you know, like
you're not in Colorado here yet.
What does somebody do whenthey're not there?
What are the best options forsomebody who doesn't have you
guys in, in their state yet?

Dustin Walsey (49:23):
Yeah, that is actually an awesome question.
So first of all, you should signup for notifications.
So we can then tell you when wecome to your state would be the
easy, the Buckle hat answer.
But, um, I would call myinsurance companies, especially
in the delivery play in thedelivery space.
Let the carrier know that you'redoing delivery and buy what they
call the rideshare endorsementthat extends some coverage.

(49:45):
Um, and the, I say it's arideshare endorsement, I guess
it'd be also a deliveryendorsement as well that, you
know, many carriers likeprogressive Allstate state farm,
they do operate offer.
And, uh, I would head down thatroute.
I would talk to my insuranceagent and see if there's other
options within the state.
Um, you know, they always comeby a commercial policy to do, to

(50:07):
do this, but I think.
It's probably a little costprohibitive.
Um, but we'll get to every statein the country at some point
and, uh, including Hawaii, whereI looked forward to, to
launching that one, personally,the weather weather's nice.

Ron at EntreCourier (50:21):
Yeah.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthis and, and, and I know it's
kind of getting outside of whatyou guys do, but there are some
rideshare endorsement.
Don't cover delivery.
Aren't there.
Um, how does, how does thatwork?
Do you know?

Dustin Walsey (50:35):
Again, I'm not, I'm not sure on every company
and again, that's where I wouldcall an insurance agent or the
company directly to get thoseanswers.
You know, an insurance agent isan incredible, uh, asset that
represents, you know, you, the,the, the consumer that truly has
the answers to your questionsand they would, uh, be able to,

(50:56):
to really help you out in thatsituation.

Ron at EntreCourier (50:59):
Sure.
Sure.
Um, let's talk about, I guess,buckle compared to maybe a
couple of different types ofinsurance, like you said,
commercial, um, you know,there's, there's like a couple
of levels of commercial wherethere's what you expect kind of
the really expensive stuff outthere.
Uh, there are a couple of majorcompanies that have, I think

(51:19):
they call them hybrid policiesthat do provide some personal
coverage as opposed to, youknow, and as well as coverage
for when they're out on, um, youknow, gig economy stuff.
How, how is that different orsimilar as far as buckle is
concerned.

Dustin Walsey (51:37):
Yeah, we took the best of personal.
I think I mentioned in the bestof commercial and kind of merged
them together.
And what we used is we used aframework that uses a commercial
framework that allows for heavypersonal use to, to accomplish
what we're trying to, uh,achieve.
And that is the ability to drivefor DoorDash or Uber eats or

(51:57):
grub hub on our policy.
And at the same time, drive yourkids to school or go on a
family.
And our commercial policy isdesigned such that it's got
very, again, understandablefeatures that they're very
common in insurance policy, 500or a thousand dollars deductible
liability, physical damage,uninsured motorist, medical

(52:18):
payments, towing, and rental,all those traditional pieces
that, that are really designedfor that.
Um, you know, I, uh, acommercial policy tends to be,
you know, a true hardcore, likecommercial policy tends to be
much more expensive than oursand a personal policy just
really doesn't offer thecoverage that we provide.

Ron at EntreCourier (52:38):
Right.
I had a, there for a littlewhile a hybrid policy and when I
first got it, you know, it was,it was one of the major ones
that's always on TV and when Ifirst got it, it actually was
surprisingly close in price towhat a personal policy would be.
But boy, within two years, itsure cranked up pretty high.

(52:59):
It was like each year thatamount jumped up.

Dustin Walsey (53:03):
I mean, it's becoming a more expensive risk
class than personal auto.
It really is.

Ron at EntreCourier (53:09):
I'm wondering if, um, for these
commercial policies, if creditratings are even more
prohibitive, as far as how theyimpact your, your premiums and
stuff, then even on a personalpolicy?

Dustin Walsey (53:23):
Well, I love, I love that.
You've just brought that up.
So we, we don't use credit inany of our decision-making
factors.
Um, so.
Which is, which is great, whichmost of the carriers that we
compete with do, um, I can'tcomment on how each one uses
credit score, but, uh, we, wecompletely ignore it.
We believe it's discriminatory.

(53:44):
And, um, and uh, we use otherfactors like time on app where
you're driving, you know, thosesorts of.
Okay.

Ron at EntreCourier (53:51):
Okay.
So do you, um, so I take it, doyou, uh, you connect or you're
able to kind of see thatactivity on the apps with a lot
of these providers then?

Dustin Walsey (54:00):
That's correct.
That's correct.
And we work with a lot.
We work directly with a lot ofproviders as well, uh, because
we also have.
Cover them.
So when a buckle driver has apolicy, we're actually stepping
in front of the delivery companyand we're taking, you know, the
liability up to the minimumlimits that we provide and it

(54:23):
actually supports and helpsthose companies, uh, de-risk
their balance sheets.
So we have partnerships with,you know, You know, lots of
different delivery companies,such as, you know, Doordash and,
you know, goPuff and, and, youknow, and lift.
And th they actually, um,recommend to their drivers or
help promote our policies totheir drivers and the benefits

(54:43):
that it provides.

Ron at EntreCourier (54:45):
Okay.
Okay.
Um, yeah, that's what I wonderwas kind of how that
relationship works.
And so you've got like a lot ofcompanies that you're you're
working with, but now let's sayif I'm driving for one of these
new up and coming guys, um, youknow, I don't know if you guys
have a relationship yet withlike, deliver that, who does
catering orders.

(55:05):
Um, is there a difference in howyou're covered or something like
that?
If you're doing work for acompany that isn't quite like
one of your relationships oranything like that, or how does
that work?

Dustin Walsey (55:16):
Yes, that actually is an awesome question.
So when we have partnershipswith the companies, it changes
the way we cover, um, primarilyliability.
Okay.
Um, so if we have a partnershipwith you, we'll help extend
liability.
If not, you know, w w we won't,because.
You know, there's benefit thatwe have that, you know, the
delivery companies are, arehelping promote us that are

(55:37):
helping educate their driversabout us that are helping us
investigate claims and things ofthat nature.
So depending on, um, ourpartnerships, uh, will really
drive the, uh, the, the risktransfer, uh, for, for a
technical term that we, weachieve with these companies.

Ron at EntreCourier (55:54):
Okay.
Um, if maybe somebody does themajority of their work for a
company that you haven'tpartnered with yet, will that
have an impact on being able toget a policy or being in or
anything like that?

Dustin Walsey (56:14):
Yeah, so, so, so what, what we do is we make it
actually really clear both, uh,mainly which is on the deck
page, but you know, it's throughthe app as well, who and what
we're covering and, uh, uh, theones that we don't, so we'll
cover the physical damage.
You know, but maybe not theliability, um, that will affect
price.
It, it inevitably impactseverything.

(56:35):
Our goal, our goal is to have apartnership with every delivery
company out there.
Um, we believe that we should bewe're friends with all, and that
we're a good to the actualecosystem in general.
So, uh, you know, we, we, wespend a lot of time with all
these companies working withthem, you know, trying to
showcase our benefits, uh, thebenefits, not just to the

(56:56):
driver, which in our opinion isthe most important, but also to
the company itself.
So it is, it is a process.
Um, you know, it is really hardbecause there's so many, as you
just mentioned, new companiesthat are very regionalized and
some might just be an us cityright now.
And, um, it, it, it's, it'schallenging.
So I think we do an excellentjob right now with the big boys.

(57:16):
Um, and we're starting to movesort of one tier down into, you
know, the, the S the, the moreregionalized players versus the
national carriers,

Ron at EntreCourier (57:25):
kind of, there's a lot of us out there
that, you know, the bulk of whatwe're doing or with the big
guys, because generally theyhave enough, especially the guys
that do it full-time orsomething like that.
And, you know, cause those guyshave enough work to keep you
busy.
And then you might have a littleregional company that, you know,

(57:45):
maybe once every three weekssomething pops up, that is okay.
That's worth taking.
Um, so is there, there's,there's a, is there a
possibility that say if you doin all of that, but then you get
this one job and that one job iswhen something happens.
Is there still, like, is there apossibility of not being covered
for part of it then orsomething, or?

Dustin Walsey (58:06):
But depending on the coverage that's extended.
So we, we probably would not becovering liability in that
situation, which would be madeclear to the driver that if
you're driving for companiesthat we're not working with,
we're not going to takeliability for it.
Sure.
Okay.
We might take it and it's allvery clearly laid out.
Okay.
We've invested a lot of time,um, in our member services team,

(58:27):
who are our agents as well, thatare really educating our
drivers.
So they understand what iscovered and what is not okay.
In a perfect world.
We'd cover everything, but it's,it's um, it's, it's not a
perfect world.

Ron at EntreCourier (58:38):
Sure.
Okay.
Um, So probably somethingsimilar if, uh, I know a couple
of guys that, you know, theypick up just some little, uh,
you know, on the side typethings where they'll do a
delivery directly for arestaurant and there's a gay,
some gray area there.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
And that's, you know, and that'sgood to know, and I think that's

(58:58):
the important thing.
Anything you do is, um, gosh,you got to know what they're
going to cover and what they'renot going to cover.

Dustin Walsey (59:05):
It's so it's so difficult, Ron.
You know, like I just wentinsurance was five years ago, 10
years ago.
No one even thought this stuffever existed, so everything's
playing catch up.
But yet this thing's expandingand rapidly growing so fast.
So it's not just companies likeus.
There's all these companies thatare supporting all these drivers

(59:27):
that are just, they're justtrying to catch up, catch up.
And these, all these newdelivery companies are coming up
faster, doing deliveriesdifferently and doing things
uniquely.
And it it's, it's, it's fun, butit's challenging.

Ron at EntreCourier (59:38):
I'm sure it is.
Yeah.
Um, so one last question, Iguess kind of in, you know, all
of these different types ofscenarios, especially where you
don't have buckle is like I'vegot it's, it's just a national,
you know, national policy.
Um, there, you know, I'vedefinitely double checked.
I don't have any exclusions inthere.
And, uh, and, and I've, I'vegotten clarification too, from

(01:00:01):
my agent to say, Is thereanything that I'm missing or
something like that.
And he says, no, you're covered.
You're covered.
All right.
Is there anything in that kindof a policy with they're still a
disadvantage compared to.
Uh, something that is moredirectly tied to, you know,

(01:00:22):
commercial policy or a buccaltype policy or anything like
that.
Are there concerns that somebodyought to have on that type of
policy where maybe their policydoes cover them or doesn't
exclude them, but it's not acommercial policy.

Dustin Walsey (01:00:35):
You know, I, again, I can't speak on each
individual policy of what, whatI would tell you what I would
tell everybody, obviously readthe fine print, read the fine
print with the CA the, thedelivery partners that you're
working with.
Um, you know, I think it's a,typically a commercial policy is
going to provide broadercoverage than a personal with
an.

(01:00:56):
Um, but to, to understand that,and they understand the risk
rewards of, of thosedecision-making is critical.
Uh, you know, our agents arehappy with people want to call
up and ask direct questions onspecific things.
But again, I would direct thosequestions back to an agent and
let them answer those questions.
But typically we find that we'reoffering the most complete
coverage out there, uh, for thedelivery driver.

Ron at EntreCourier (01:01:19):
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you.

Dustin Walsey (01:01:20):
I look forward to being in Colorado soon.

Ron at EntreCourier (01:01:23):
Well, I hope so.
That'd be great.
That would be great.
Uh, look forward to that aswell.
Um, I know you've been a great,uh, taking the time here to be
with me and everything likethat.
And I want to respect your time.
Is there anything, any kind ofmessage that you would maybe
offer to drivers that we haven'tcovered yet so far?

Dustin Walsey (01:01:40):
Yeah.
I mean, first of all, thank youfor all that you do.
I mean, it makes the world workthese days.
Uh, but again, Insurance is socritical.
It's so important to protectyourself, to protect your car,
to protect your assets, toprotect your earnings in
livelihood.
That it, I know it, you know,inflation's real gas is

(01:02:01):
expensive.
Um, Uh, insurance rates aregoing up.
Everything in this world isgetting more expensive, but you
know, that car is so criticaland that extra couple of dollars
here there is, is really worthit.
In the end of the day, to havethe peace of mind that your
car's covered, that yourearnings are covered.
And, um, if you have anyquestions, you know, please feel
free.
You can find [e-mail].

(01:02:22):
We're on Twitter, we're onLinkedIn, we're on Facebook.
And, uh, we really do a good jobputting the driver first.
And that, that is our focus is,you know, the gig driver.
So.
Uh, uh, love the industry and.
I, I appreciate you having meon, uh, on your podcast.

Ron at EntreCourier (01:02:38):
Yeah.
And I need to clarify thatbecause I think I said get
buckle didn't I?

Dustin Walsey (01:02:44):
Buckleup.com.

Ron at EntreCourier (01:02:45):
Yeah.
It's buckleup.com.
So I got to make absolutelysure.
And maybe I can dub that in.
I don't know, earlier in the.

Dustin Walsey (01:02:51):
I think we'll be all right.
I, getbuckle might work, I don'tknow.

Ron at EntreCourier (01:02:55):
Well guys, you know, and especially if, if
buckle is in your state, youdefinitely want to take a look
and actually you can go tobuckle up.com and you can kind
of start the process orsomething like that.
And, and if they're interestingto you at all, I would, I would
recommend that you at least, youknow, fill it out because the

(01:03:17):
more that Buckle knows thatpeople in your state want to be
there.
I'm sure that's going to kind ofshift some of their priorities.

Dustin Walsey (01:03:25):
The the other thing is, even though we might
not be writing insurance, yourstate, there's a lot of content
up there.
We've partnered with Harry, therideshare guy who does a great
articles and some other peoplewhere there's really content
around all different types oftop topics that are really
relevant to the gig driver, um,that, uh, is, is useful in the

(01:03:46):
blogs as well as, um, anybodywho, uh, shares data with us.
You know, we have a membershipwhere they can get discounts on
various, you know, Products andservices as well.
So, uh, you know, we're going toget to all 50 states at some
point here in the next year ortwo.
And, uh, we'll look forward toworking with everybody and Ron
on all the support, you know,people like yourself to give us
and the visibility's reallyimportant for the driver.

Ron at EntreCourier (01:04:08):
All right.
Well, Dustin, again, thanks forjoining us on the podcast and I
wish you all the best.

Dustin Walsey (01:04:14):
Thank you.

Ron at EntreCourier (01:04:16):
Well, Courier Nation, what did you
think?
I really appreciate havingDustin on, and I really
appreciate that he was willingto answer, you know, a lot of, a
lot of questions about deliveryand, and I really appreciate the
fact that he was, he was upfrontabout things as well, as we
asked about specifics about hispolicies and different things

(01:04:37):
like that.
I cannot give you any kind ofrecommendation about Buckle,
because first of all, I don'thave them myself.
They're not here in Coloradoyet.
And, so I can't tell you that"yes, they are a great insurance
company.
Yes, they are the policy thatyou should have." I'm not sure I

(01:04:57):
could really do that aboutanybody, you know, and I'm not
going to do that just because Imight get paid for it or
something like that.
I'm going to be honest about,you know, the things that I like
and the things that I don'tlike.
And, and I really, here's thething that I really want to say
is I do really appreciate thisabout these guys, that
everything that I have seen,social media, with their

(01:05:22):
interactions, with other peoplethat I know, everything that I
have seen about buckle, I havethis impression that this is a
company that cares deeply aboutthe independent contractor, that
they want to provide somethingto make sure that you're
covered, that you're taken careof.
And, I really get a sense thatthey advocate for independent
contractors.

(01:05:42):
Um, they, I think they reallyunderstand this whole treating
this like a business idea, allof these different things.
So I really appreciate thatabout buckle.
I'm going to be honest with youthat if, and when they become
available here in Colorado, Idon't know that I will sign up.
And it's because of one thing.

(01:06:03):
And that is because I do makedeliveries for some of these
other platforms that are outthere and so and some of them
are not covered.
And I don't do any independentdelivery work myself.
but I don't want to rule thatout either.
But, you know, we mentioned, Ithink we talked about
DeliverThat and Curri a coupleof them that I've done

(01:06:26):
deliveries for.
And I'm a little concerned thatI'm not going to be covered, you
know, that, that buckle the, oneof the things that sets them
apart and makes them real solidis that they've got a working
relationship with these gigeconomy companies.
But if they don't have thatrelationship with them, you
know, it's not an allencompassing policy.

(01:06:46):
At least that was the way Iunderstood it.
And uh, if, if I hear otherwise,you know, I definitely want to
make sure that I correct that,but as it stands right now, You
could still have some gaps ifyou're deciding to do some
deliveries for any platformsthat are not partnered with
buckle.
And so that would be, that wouldbe my caveat.

(01:07:08):
That would be my thing to saythat if they are in your state
and you're only doing deliveriesfor the big guys, if you're only
doing deliveries for platforms,goPuff, I believe Doordash
Grubhub, Uber, Lyft, you know,these companies that they have
relationships with, they couldbe a good alternative.
And for a lot of drivers andmaybe have some issues with high

(01:07:33):
with high premiums because ofyou know, maybe credit or
different things like that, youknow, we've all been there
before and I think they can be areal good alternative because
they don't take your credit intoaccount and instead they kind of
are able to look a lot more atjust your relationship with the

(01:07:53):
delivery companies.
And they know that you'reactually making money out there,
things like that.
So there's, there's a lot ofthings with them that I think
there are some good things.
There were some things that youjust got to watch out for.
And, and I think that's trueanything you do with insurance?
Ask all the questions, ask allthe questions, talk to your
agent, talk to talk to peopleyou know, at the insurance

(01:08:17):
company, ask the question, sayif I'm on a delivery and I get
into an accident, am I covered?
And you've got to find that outbecause here's the deal.
I just read an article, today oryesterday about somebody that
got carjacked, you know,somebody, took their car while
they were taking food in orsomething like that.

(01:08:39):
And.
Uh, they recovered the carpretty quickly, but it had
already been, it had beenwrecked and this guy was on his
own.
He was not covered and obviouslyDoordash, wasn't going to cover
him.
His insurance company didn'tcover him because he was on
deliveries and they hadexclusions and the exact things
that we've been talking about.
And it's that kind of stuff thatall of a sudden, now he's got

(01:09:01):
this damage to his car.
If he's got a loan.
They want that money.
The bank wants that money.
Now, if you know, somehow he'sgot to get that car fixed.
It's just all of a sudden,you're in a spot where you got
to do some and you don't havethe money for it.
That's the whole idea ofinsurance to begin with.

(01:09:21):
So.
My whole point is just make sureyou've got the right insurance.
Okay.
And if it's your personal, I'vegot a personal policy and I've
made sure that, that there's noexclusions and I've double
checked with the agent andtriple checked and gone through
all the language.
So I'm comfortable with that.
There may be, you know, maybeyou're looking at a hybrid

(01:09:43):
policy by a couple of the bignames, you know, that have all
the commercials on TV and youknow, the thing is is just ask
the questions and make sure thatyou're covered.
It is maybe the most importantthing you could do for your
delivery business.
And that wraps it up for today.
Thanks guys for coming back.

(01:10:04):
And as I mentioned, right at thebeginning, you know, hopefully
you got your taxes taken careof.
If you're listening to thisright, as it came out, uh, get
it done, get it done quickly ifyou haven't gotten it done yet.
And, and one thing that I asked,you know, that I, that I want to
wish you, I just, um, to meEaster weekend, that's a special

(01:10:26):
time, there's, it's just themessage and the thing that you
celebrate, you know, I'll justbe honest, incredibly important
to me.
And if that's you, I want towish you just, just a wonderful
Easter Sunday but more thananything folks, what I really

(01:10:47):
want to wish for you is, is thatyou can take control of
whatever's going on in yourlife, but especially in your
business, as we talk aboutdelivering on your business and
to go out and just be the bossof your own business.