When life handed Dr. Corinne Ellsworth-Beaumont lemons, she crafted a global movement for breast health education. My guest, the visionary behind the Know Your Lemons Foundation, transforms the sour reality of breast cancer into actionable wisdom through the universal language of design. As your host, Dr. Tiffany Montgomery, I'm thrilled to bring you this inspiring dialogue that weaves personal narratives with the striking metaphor of lemons to peel back the layers of breast cancer awareness. We dive into Corinne's personal journey and her crusade to replace fear with knowledge, ensuring that every person has the resources to recognize the signs of breast cancer early.
This episode is graced with potent stories from survivors like Briani and Jessica, whose proactive responses to the symptoms depicted by 12 lemons in an egg carton were lifesaving. As we dissect these accounts, the importance of self-awareness and self-advocacy in health care becomes clear; it's a testament to the transformative power of early detection. We also turn the spotlight on the Know Your Lemons app, a digital ally in the mission to educate and empower individuals to monitor their breast health proactively, proving that an informed community is a formidable force against cancer.
You might think you know the truths about breast cancer, but this conversation is set to uproot myths and plant seeds of clarity. We unravel the tangled misconceptions—from the harmless underwire bra to the inclusive reality that breast cancer is not gender-discriminative. Moreover, we explore the critical role of genetic testing and why it's essential to not let fear overshadow the need for regular mammograms. Join us for an eye-opening episode that arms you with the courage and knowledge to stand up to breast cancer, ensuring you're squeezing every drop of prevention and preparedness out of life's lemons.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
P23 Knowledge, access , power.
P23, wellness and Understandingat your fingertips P23.
And that's no cap.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to a very special episode of Demystifying
DNA.
Today, we are inviting a veryspecial guest, know your Limits.
I'm your host, dr TiffanyMontgomery, and we are going to
delve into the crucialintersection of genetics and
(00:42):
breast cancer awareness with ourspecial guest, dr Corinne
Ellsworth-Bomont.
Ceo of Know your Limits.
Dr Corinne Ellsworth-Bomont,mfa, phd, is a visionary digital
designer who leveragestechnology and design to
(01:04):
revolutionize breast cancerdetection through the work of
her global charity, the Knowyour Limits Foundation.
Since 2017, her impactfulcampaign app and global educator
program has reached over 1.85billion people in 34 languages.
(01:26):
Her foundation supports thework of a robust global
partnership network thatdelivers Know your Limits breast
education on a grassroots levelin over 60 countries, saving
lives worldwide.
Beyond her groundbreaking work,corinne serves on international
(01:50):
panels, including the WHOGlobal Breast Cancer Initiative,
and has spoken at prestigiousevents like the United Nations
Conference.
Her TEDx talk highlights herinnovative approach, earning a
standing ovation.
Alongside her professionalendeavors, corinne enjoys travel
(02:14):
adventures with her daughter.
Welcome, dr Boma, to my showCan.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I call you Corinne.
Yes, you can Thank you, tiffanyDr T.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You're welcome, just call me Tiffany, just call me.
I'm so happy to have you andthank you for joining us as we
debunk myths and explore thevital role of genetics and
understanding breast cancer riskand prevention.
Together, we aim to empower youwith essential knowledge to
protect your health andwell-being.
Corinne, I have to ask you youknow this is a phenomenal
(02:51):
organization.
You've touched so many liveswhat made you start this
non-for-profit?
Know your Limits.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
So when I was starting my master's degree in
graphic design, I lost my secondgrandmother to breast cancer.
And at that point I realized Ithink this is in my family, I
think this is a health issue Ishould know more about.
And I realized I didn't knowanything about breast health.
So I went online, I looked up alot of information and went to
(03:24):
a cancer library in my area andsaid, hey, I'm in my early 20s,
I have a family history ofbreast cancer, what should I be
doing?
And they said, well, we don'tget people your age coming in
here asking these questions.
But here's a book, here's someleaflets, here are some websites
(03:44):
.
And I ended up leaving withmore questions than I had going
in.
And I was also looking at thisthrough the eyes of a designer
and looking at the materials.
And I don't know about you, butwhenever you're at the doctor's
office and you see pamphlets orthe five-year-old issue of
People Magazine, most of us arepicking up the People Magazine
(04:05):
when we're finding out how Bradand Angelina are enjoying their
lives in France.
So we do not go to the medicalinformation.
We'd rather read old celebritynews than learn about the five
facts concerning whatever bodypart.
So I thought design can make abig difference.
(04:28):
As a designer, I can make thisinformation interesting.
So does it require two familymembers dying before we start to
seek this out?
What if this information becameappealing?
What if it became engaging andinteresting to look at?
So that's where I started outwith the basic questions I had
were do I have an increased riskfor breast cancer?
(04:48):
When should I start gettingmammograms?
People say, fill for a lump.
But what does a lump feel like?
Because there's lumps in ourbody everywhere, because our
bodies aren't just things of gooright, we've got an ad for it,
especially with breasts.
Right, we've got milk ducks andlymph nodes and all kinds of
things.
(05:08):
So just being able tounderstand those questions is
where I began.
So I started working on it aspart of my three-year master's
project.
I worked alongside physicians,I talked to patients.
I really did everything I couldto be in someone's shoes, just
to understand the diagnosticprocess how are the different
(05:29):
kinds of symptoms?
And through that research cameup with a whole new way of being
able to talk about breast byusing lemons as a visual
metaphor, visual substitute forthat, so that you can get really
specific information to showthis is what this symptom looks
like without ever having to showa breast.
You can show it on a lemoninstead, which is great, because
(05:50):
lemons have nipples, lemonshave skin pores and if you cut a
lemon, navel to navel, itresembles breast and abby.
So there's a lot of reallyinteresting things you can do
when you have a new way oflooking at the breasts and you
can show people actual symptomsin detail without ever having to
(06:12):
be censored.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And we talk a lot about the education part.
I think that that is phenomenal.
When we're younger, we jokeabout breasts or, you know, we
refer to them without saying theword breast.
I've heard people call themmelons, but your approach to
call them lemons was very unique.
It stood out to me and itcaught my attention and it
helped me see the similaritiesthat you just don't see.
(06:36):
I think because the lemon issmaller and most girls,
especially when they're younger,they kind of want more than
just the lemon amount.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, I mean, that's a great thing.
So when I started off lookingfor the metaphor, I photographed
42 different objects.
I did melons and jugs, andcones and all kinds of things.
And as I was doing this I waslike, ok, melons are known for
size, so if I use melons, thisis sending the subliminal
(07:07):
message of breast cancer forlarger breasted women.
So I'm like I have to take thatout.
I can't use melons For thingslike milk jugs.
Milk jugs look different indifferent parts of the world,
right?
Not everyone has milk jugs.
So I'm like, nope, that's notgoing to work because it's not
going to be able to translateglobally.
So I wanted to find an objectthat people work familiar with
(07:29):
that hadn't already been usedwith breasts, so that way it
could be a fresh metaphor thatdidn't have something else
attached to it, but somethingelse really interesting.
That happened when I wasshadowing at an imaging center
and I was talking to themammography technician and
talking to the radiologist andasking questions about what does
the cancerous lump feel like?
Because a lot of the literaturejust said feel for something
(07:52):
different, you'll know it whenyou see it, type of thing.
And I'm like, well, that's nota lot of information.
Just to say you'll know it whenyou see it.
What information is that?
So when I was talking to thetechnician because she had felt
many lumps and she was doing herwork, and I said, is it squishy
(08:14):
like a grape?
And she says, well, it can bethat size.
And I'm like, no, how does itfeel?
And she says, well, it's oftenhard like a nut.
And when she said that, Ithought or a lemon seed.
And then that's when themetaphor became complete Is it?
If you're feeling something?
Anything that feels differentto anything else in the breast
needs to be investigated, right?
(08:35):
Cancer doesn't just say Ipresent in this one way for
everyone, but as the generalrule, cancer slumps are hard,
and the longer it is there, themore immovable it becomes, and
so if you find something that'shard and immovable, that's
definitely something that needsto be referred to a doctor.
(08:55):
Sometimes these things arecysts, which is a harmless thing
that happens in the breast, butyou only know these answers
when you get it followed upthrough testing.
So you know, having thatmetaphor of the lemon seed and a
lemon looking like a lemon andthe inside of a lemon looking
like breast anatomy, you coulduse it to educate on lots of
(09:16):
different aspects of breasthealth.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Which is amazing.
And I'm just going to ask youcan you elaborate on your
organization's commitment to notjust being informative but also
emotionally supportive in itsengagement with individuals and
I want to just say individuals,because we know breast cancer
can affect men and women, right?
So we want to be inclusive.
(09:40):
I just want to know how do youfoster that collaboration and
that sensitivity?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, so the because we use lemons and whenever we
show the lemons, they're notattached to a body, they're just
lemons on their own.
So because of that, we cancommunicate with any gender,
because we're focused on lemonsand not a body.
So that's really useful.
Also, because we're focused onlemons, it works for any
(10:08):
ethnicity Because, again, we'renot calling out a specific
ethnicity, so we're not callingout a specific gender.
We're not calling out aspecific ethnicity.
We're not even calling out aspecific age.
We were doing this becausewe're using lemons as the
vehicle and lemons are notassociated with an age or
ethnicity or gender, so thatmakes it a very neutral way of
(10:28):
discussing it.
So that's why our campaign isso universal and we're able to
use it around the world.
In so many places In some partsof the world, lemons are green,
so our Know your Lemons campaignhas green lemons that feature
in that.
So that's one of theadjustments that we make.
But we use a lot of reallycolorful graphics, which makes
(10:54):
the information friendly.
So a lot of cancer relatedpublications are very clinical
looking, they're very seriousand anything important is
written through text.
So for people who don't havetime to read a lot of things
which was most of us.
(11:14):
For people who aren'tinterested in reading a lot of
text, which is most of us like,the message becomes inaccessible
at that point and then forpeople who have lower literacy,
then it really becomesinaccessible.
So our goal is to make it moreaccessible.
To make it more universal ishow can, how can we leverage
(11:35):
visuals to do most of thecommunication in a way that
requires very little text, iscolorful and friendly in the way
that it looks, so it's moreapproachable, and then also is
universal, so it can appeal toall these different age groups
and ethnicities and genders.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So before I get to the fun stuff.
I'm going to ask you, just asfellow female business owner
with a vision to fellow businessfemale owner with a vision I
know I have and I have to assumeyou have to also her people say
why would you do this, or howis it going to work, or this is
(12:15):
silly, yeah, and for thosepeople today, I like you to
share some success stories whereyour organization's friendly,
inclusive, dynamic marketingapproach has made a significant
impact on individuals lives,with making this information
more acceptable and accessible.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, definitely.
I'd love to tell you a storyabout a woman named Brian E in
Australia.
So she was at her doctor'soffice getting ready to check
out at the counter when shenoticed our 12 signs of breast
cancer poster up there and Irealized we're on a podcast.
So I'll just pause for a minuteto see if you haven't yet, Go
to know your lemons dot org andsee the image that I'm about to
(12:59):
talk about.
So this, this is the image thathas saved a lot of lives around
the world, and what it is isit's 12 lemons inside of an egg
carton and each of those lemonshows a different symptom of
breast cancer.
So this poster was hung up atthis doctor's office.
As she's checking out, shelooks at the poster and one of
the lemons catches her eye,which is a dimple.
(13:21):
So one of the symptoms ofbreast cancers is having an
indentation in the breast.
And she looks at that and says,well, hold on, I have that on
my breast.
Is that a symptom of breastcancer?
And so immediately she broughtit up with her doctor and 20
days later she started her firstchemo treatment for stage two
(13:45):
breast cancer.
Now, if Briani had not haveseen that poster, how bad would
it have needed to be before sherecognized this was a problem?
It was painless, there were nolumps.
It, you know, there's.
As we get older, we have otherdents and dimples in our body
(14:06):
that show up right.
And so she just thought oh,this is aging.
And so that that's one story.
And there are many stories likethat of people saying because I
saw this image, it gave meinformation and it gave me
confidence because it wascommunicated so clearly that I
knew I needed to do somethingabout it.
(14:26):
So there's also Jessica inFrance.
She saw our image on socialmedia and decided you know what
I need to get better at myselfexams.
So she decided, after seeingthat image, I'm going to be
regular about doing myself exams.
Couple years later she noticesalum.
She goes to her doctor.
(14:48):
She's in her early 30s and andhe says you're statistically
this is unlikely, You're tooyoung for breast cancer, so I'm
not going to refer you fortesting.
So she's sent away.
She comes back again and says Ireally think that there's an
issue here.
(15:08):
And he's again tells her no, Idon't think this needs
investigated.
The third time she goes backand they said OK, fine, we'll
refer you for an ultrasound.
So she gets an ultrasound, thetechnician looks at it and says
(15:30):
we definitely see somethingthere, but it looks harmless to
us.
But what Jessica knew was thatshe was now showing three
symptoms of breast cancer andshe's like there's no way I'm
showing three symptoms of breastcancer and this thing that's
appearing is harmless.
She says I just knew, combinedwith the information she had and
(15:52):
her instincts, something waswrong.
And so they said OK, do youwant to buy Opsi?
And basically the biopsy wasoffered as a way of just being
like.
And then you leave us alone andshe's like yes, I want to buy
Opsi.
So they do the biopsy and itwas stage one, triple negative
breast cancer.
Now, triple negative breastcancer is a very aggressive form
(16:14):
of breast cancer.
It can grow very quickly andcatching it early is really
difficult.
So for her to have found triplenegative breast cancer at stage
one is pretty significant andthat was because she knew the
symptoms, she knew her body, sheknew what was normal for her
and that this was different andshe knew how to advocate for
(16:35):
herself.
So you know, we hear that storytime and time again.
People see our work, theyrecognize they have a problem,
they go to the doctor.
Sometimes they're dismissed butthey persevere.
They know that something'swrong and then they insist on
getting the testing they needand that's how they're diagnosed
early.
And when people are diagnosedearly, that makes all the
difference in survival.
(16:56):
So when someone's diagnosed atstage one, the survival rates
like over 99%.
When someone is diagnosed atthe latest stage, stage four,
it's more like in the 32% range.
So there's a huge difference insaving a life If you can get
people diagnosed early.
(17:16):
And the two things for that areknowing what's normal for you by
, you know, practicing regularself-exams just to get to know
your normal.
And the second one is gettingscreened according to your risk.
So if you're average risk, youshould start getting a mammogram
every year, age 40.
And if you're at higher risk,then you might need a breast MRI
(17:37):
with that or you startmammograms at an earlier age.
So knowing that information isreally important and our Know
your Limits app will help peopleunderstand what those risk
factors are, what screening planyou should discuss with your
doctor and send you monthlyreminders of how to self-exam
what each part of the breastfeels like.
Details on each of them isreally useful.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I don't want to stop you, Karim, but did I just hear
you say you have an app that wecan download to remind us of
when to do our self-exams?
It will have the images of thelemons and what we should look
for.
And it will be an interactiveway for us to look at what's
going on with our body, andyou're designing this app.
(18:21):
Yes, and it's free.
How much does it?
It's free, wow, wow.
So it's free.
It's on Apple, I'm assuming, onAndroid and maybe Google Play
Store, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, it's for any device.
We have it, so it's free.
We don't collect any healthinformation.
That's your business.
It all stays on your phone andwe've won several Webby Awards,
which is like the Oscars of theInternet were nominated.
Wow.
As a top five health and fitness.
(18:58):
So get it.
It's really like saving.
Several people have said Ididn't know how to do self-exam
until the app and now I feelmore confident in what I'm doing
, whereas before I kind of waslike there's lumps, I don't know
what to do, and they kind ofyou know, decide I'm not
engaging with this anymore.
It's too confusing.
We've even had someone thatsaid I found my love because of
(19:21):
the app teaching me how to doself-exam.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
So I'll have to admit , kudo, see you when I had about
this app.
I've had my husband get itbecause I'm like you can help me
look for stuff.
Like we need to be looking atit.
Yeah, we're not going to writeit off as just getting older,
like we're going to be on thelookout because I do agree,
early detection is the key.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So, for all the work that you've done until we have a
cure for all the differenttypes of breast cancer.
The best thing we can do rightnow to save lives Absolute best
thing we can do is educateourselves and take steps for
early detection.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You are amazing, so let's get to some fun stuff.
Okay, a lot of people here, alot of myths about breast cancer
.
We know is so serious it can bedifficult to talk about.
So I'm going to get into acouple of myths, and the first
one is breast cancer is causedby wearing underwire bras.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
You know, wouldn't it be great if we could just get
rid of underwires and it wouldsolve so many problems, like
wouldn't that just be, nice tobe like you know what we're on a
rare bra and now breast canceris solved right.
So yeah, we don't live in thatworld.
That's not how it works right,like like under wire bra.
This may be uncomfortable, butthey're not cancer-causing.
(20:34):
So, that's a myth.
That's a myth, and anyone who'strying to sell you a bra that's
going to like prevent breastcancer, they're trying to make
money off of you.
Good to know.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Now, what about this one?
I think we can have the talksabout this one, but we're going
to go myth or fat, okay.
Breast cancer only affectswomen.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Ask fiancee's dad that question.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I'll tell you that that is not true.
That is not true.
This is because both men andwomen have breasts.
Both men and women have breasttissue.
It's women are able to havemilk producing facilities with
their breasts, but men do not.
But both men and women can getbreast cancer.
So it's rare but it does happen.
(21:23):
So 1% of people diagnosed withbreast cancer are men.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Here's one that I get all the time Breast cancer is
caused by deodorant.
If we take the aluminum out ofour deodorant or put on baking
soda instead of deodorant, we'llbe able to stop breast cancer
Again.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
What a wonderful world to live in that if we can
just switch our deodorant, likebreast cancer goes away.
That's not how cancer works.
There have been several studiesthat have looked at it that
have said that there's not acorrelation between
antiperspirant and breast cancer.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
One of my personal favorites and I believe me, I'm
not making this up.
These are things that we hear,that we get a lot, so I would
like to hear from you on it.
Breast cancer is contagious.
It can be spread from person toperson.
So if I have breast cancer andmy husband touches my breast or
(22:22):
we're intimate, can he contractbreast cancer?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
No, so cancer is under the category of
non-communicable diseases.
So non-communicable meansyou're not transferring it from
person to person.
It's not airborne.
You can't chance where it wasflew.
That's not how cancer works.
So cancer is where a celldoesn't normally grow and divide
(22:51):
and die as it should.
It doesn't follow the normalpattern of how cells develop.
So it's a very broad term.
There's lots of ways cells cango awry.
So cancer and different typesof cancer are all labeling
different ways cells go awry.
So this is why with breastcancer there's not just one kind
(23:16):
.
There's several different kindsof breast cancer and they're
all treated a little bitdifferently.
So kind of knowing that is alsouseful, that's.
Another myth is that there'sjust one kind of breast cancer
but there's many kinds of breastcancer.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
The last one, breast cancer is always hereditary, so
I don't have a family history ofit.
It's not something that I needto be concerned about, because
you can't get it if it's nothereditary.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You know, this is the most prolific myth, and I think
the reason why this myth is sobeloved is because it feels like
protection.
And so this is the statisticthat's going to surprise people
who are hearing this 85% ofpeople diagnosed with breast
cancer have no family history ofit.
(24:05):
85% of people diagnosed withbreast cancer have no, no family
history of it.
They're the very first personin their family to be diagnosed.
So the number one thing we hearwhen we're going out, we're
educating people and saying hey,are you getting your mammogram?
They say, well, you know, Icould you know, but it doesn't
(24:27):
run in my family, so I don'treally have to worry about it.
If you're a woman and you aregetting older, congratulations.
You need to worry about itbecause one in eight women will
get breast cancer in theirlifetime.
So that that means if you havea room of 75 year old women and
there are eight of them, one ofthem will have had breast cancer
(24:49):
at some point in their life.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Okay, corinne.
So we talked about the myththat breast cancer is always
hereditary.
We debunk that.
You blow my mind with this 85%statistic right Of new cases not
having the history at all.
Tell me what happens in that15% instance where there is a
(25:12):
family history, or women do havethat family history, of breast
cancer.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, exactly.
So if you have a first degreerelative so mother, child,
sibling that doubles your riskfor breast cancer.
So, and if you have multiplefamily members with breast
cancer, then that can increaseyour risk as well.
But there are other cancersthat are related to breast
(25:37):
cancer.
So, for example, ovarian canceris related, prostate cancer is
related, there are a coupleothers as well.
So, knowing that if you have afamily history of a couple
cancers, they might actually berelated to a genetic mutation
and that genetic mutation canincrease your risk for breast
(25:58):
cancer.
Now, the other day I ran into anold friend that I hadn't seen
for a while and she was tellingme that her mother had just had
her second case of breast cancer.
And she says, yes, and my auntshad breast cancer as well, and
(26:20):
another relative had anotherbreast cancer.
And she says I guess I justhave to wait and see if it
happens to me.
And I said well, have you hadgenetic testing?
And she says, well, I don'tknow if I wanna know the answer.
And I said you do, you want toknow the answer?
And the reason for that is thatif you know you have a genetic
(26:41):
mutation, all of these tests andoptions open up to you to help
you find it earlier.
So if you have, for instance,the BRCA mutation for breast
cancer, then they'll say, okay,great, we're gonna do a breast
MRI and we're gonna add that toyour screening plan because
(27:02):
that's gonna help us be able tospot things as early as possible
if it shows up.
So having a genetic mutationdoesn't mean you will get cancer
.
It means you've got more of achance of getting it.
There's also other options ofthings you can do to reduce your
risk.
But if you don't know if youhave that genetic mutation, none
of those options for earlydetection that would help you
(27:23):
will be available to you.
So it's really important toknow that.
If you're looking at lifeinsurance, it's good to get that
life insurance plan figured outbefore you do genetic testing.
So that's something to keep inmind.
If you're looking at doinggenetic testing, get maybe your
life insurance plan signed upfor then do the genetic testing
(27:45):
afterwards.
But so in my family breastcancer on both sides.
You have a 50-50 chance ofgetting a gene from either
parent.
So there's no such thing as,like just the mother's side or
just the father's side genes mix.
So I don't have a geneticmutation that is known.
(28:11):
We're learning more and moreabout genetics as time goes on,
and so right now I have no knownmutation, but the more we learn
, it might be that I have thisgenetic mutation that just
hasn't been discovered yet.
Some other flags for ifsomething could potentially be
genetic in your family is thatsomeone is diagnosed before age
50, if the person diagnosed is aman, if breast cancer showed up
(28:42):
in both breasts at the sametime, or both ovaries for a very
cancer.
So there are a couple of thingsthat might indicate this could
be genetic, if it's happeningearlier or more aggressively
those sorts of things.
So it's good to know thatinformation and really know your
health history.
So start by figuring out yourhealth history and then talk to
(29:03):
your doctor.
The Know your Lemons app willask you these questions and it
creates a little bullet pointlist of risk factors for you to
talk to your doctor about and tosee if genetic testing would be
useful for you.
You know we live in a day andage where we're able to get
access to a lot of informationand we're having testing that's
more precise and tailored tospecific things that we may have
(29:27):
.
Knowing answers only gives usmore power to do something about
that.
You know, rather than you know.
The last thing we should bedoing is sitting and waiting for
something to happen.
It's we can be more proactiveand do things.
So again, if you've got familyhistory of breast cancer or
related cancers, really look atgenetic testing as something
(29:52):
that can help save your life andhelp your family's lives.
You know, maybe you'll neverget breast cancer, but maybe
that's gonna save your auntbecause you were proactive about
it to say, hey, family, let'sbe on top of this.
Let's not sit and wait forsomething to happen.
Let's be proactive and see whatwe can do to reduce our risk
and really take care ofourselves as a family.
(30:13):
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
So thank you for sharing that.
It is very much in line withthe National Breast Cancer
Foundation, and the most commongenes that are looked at for
breast cancer as it stands noware BRCA1 and BRCA2,.
But you illuminated to a verygood point, or you eluded to a
(30:38):
very good point, when you saidthose are the genes we know
about now.
Right, so there could beanother gene indicator that
we're unaware of and, as such,you haven't been tested for it
because it hasn't been offered.
You mentioned both of yourgrandmothers, that's maternal
and paternal, lost their fightwith breast cancer, and I would
(31:00):
have to assume it was detectedlater, because the later it is,
the worse your chances are forsuccess.
Is that true, or have you found?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
So there's different kinds of breast cancer, right?
So if you have triple negativeit's really aggressive.
It's hard to find that one asearly.
Sometimes it grows more quickly.
So there's kind of that option.
With my father's mother, she wasdiagnosed in her mid-30s.
(31:31):
That was many decades ago now,so we don't have a lot of
information on what type ofbreast cancer she had.
My other grandmother wasdiagnosed in her late 50s and so
again, there wasn't a lot ofinformation that was really
(31:53):
gathered at the time.
So I've had genetic testingbecause of the work I do.
I think it's I call it one ofthe work hazards is I'm hearing
stories every day of peoplegetting diagnosed with breast
cancer because of this or that,et cetera.
So I'm hyper-vigilant on itbecause I hear I know all the
(32:15):
ways that cancer presents itselfand all the different things.
So yeah, but there are manydifferent genes.
I don't know the total numberright now, but there's at least
30 genetic mutations that areconnected to breast cancer.
All of them have differentimplications on risk.
(32:39):
I know some companies justoffer, like the BRCA1 and BRCA2
testing.
It's much better if you get thefull test.
I'll explain why.
My friend Suzanne that I lost tobreast cancer.
She was diagnosed in her late20s and so we were thinking this
(33:03):
has to be genetic, like to bediagnosed that young.
And they did the test and said,no, there's no genetics.
And then her sister wasdiagnosed with breast cancer a
few years later and then theysaid, well, let's look at this
again.
And they did the full panel andrecognized that she had the PAL
B2 gene, so that thatinformation wasn't available
(33:31):
five years earlier.
So it's really interesting tosee the the progress that's made
in genetics and in learning howthis works.
And then there's also twodifferent kinds of genetic
mutations there's somatic andgermline, and those are fancy
terms, for you're born with itversus it just develops on its
(33:52):
own.
So knowing that can be reallyuseful too.
So again, we live in such aremarkable time where we have
all this access to informationat our fingertips and you know
you can spit into a tube and andit will tell you information
that you that can help save yourlife or make improve your
(34:13):
health.
So this idea of like it doesn'trun in my family and so I don't
need to worry about it.
Just isn't true, because mostpeople don't, and this is why
you hear so many people say Ididn't think it could happen to
me, it's not in my family andand it's.
It's growing and it's happeningat younger ages and so you know
, being aware of that andrecognizing, just for being a
(34:36):
woman and just for getting older, those are your two biggest
risk factors for breast cancer.
You know, if you find a way tostop aging, then sure.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
We want to, we don't want to.
We want to be here, we don'tstop.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Until we figure out this like not aging thing, like
we need to be getting ourmammograms, we need to be
getting self exam.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I will say that it is difficult.
It's challenging when Iseparate being a scientist and
being, you know, the super smartlady and the curious lady.
At the end of the day, when I'mjust wife, mom and just Tiffany
.
It can be hard.
You think it's going to hurtand then they have a lot of
(35:19):
changes.
Like you said, it keepschanging ages.
So, it used to be.
The standard of care was starscreen and then 45, then it went
to 44.
Now they're saying 40 and I'mlike it keeps going.
But we're having moreprecedence of it, and earlier
detection is the key.
There's no pattern to it as youstated.
(35:40):
It's unpredictable.
So what can we, as women, do toget over the fear of that first
mammogram or the pain that wethink might be associated with
it?
And now you're talking to me,so convince me to get that
mammogram.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Well, I'm going to give you some secrets.
I will give you some tips.
Okay, If you are menstruating,the best time to go is a few
days after your period ends,because this is when your
breasts are less tender.
So you probably noticed, thelast half of a menstrual cycle
your breasts get a littletalkative.
They're like, hey, I'm here,I'm uncomfortable, Right, and
(36:17):
you have tenderness, you havesome swelling, you have like
some temporary lumpiness.
That is normal.
That is hormones in the bodytrying to prepare you for a
potential pregnancy, Right.
And then it's like, oh, we'renot pregnant, and then hormones
go down.
So there's, there's, there'sthat, that breast cycle pattern
to know about.
So the app has a period trackerin.
(36:39):
It will send you reminders todo a self exam at the ideal time
every month.
If you don't menstruate, itwill send you a reminder on the
first of every month to do it,so that that's something to know
when you're scheduling yourmammogram.
And usually when you call theschedule, the mammogram, they
will ask you that question ofwhen when was your last period?
So that's tip number one.
Tip number two is to maybe takesome ibuprofen 30 minutes
(37:04):
beforehand if you're reallyconcerned about pain.
And so the last one is, aswomen we do far more painful
things than a mammogram.
If you have had a bikini wax,you can handle a mammogram Right
Like the.
You know.
If, if you can walk in heelsall day, you can handle a
(37:26):
mammogram Like like, this isnothing, this is nothing.
I've had mammograms where I'vedefinitely felt it and some
mammograms are as like that's it.
So sometimes it depends on thetechnician that you have.
If you say, hey, this is myfirst mammogram and and I'm
concerned about discomfort, youcan let that technician know and
(37:47):
say, I really appreciate if youcan, you know be, you know, I
mean they're going to be doingtheir best anyway, but sometimes
just you communicating that canhelp.
But the best comparison is tothink about it like getting your
blood pressure taken.
So you know you have that bloodpressure cuff around your arm
and you feel it and it getstight, but it's not like painful
(38:08):
and then, and then you havethat release.
That's really what a mammogramis like.
You've got that, thatcompression, that tightness, and
then and it only lasts for likea few seconds.
So you know, if for women whowho no longer menstruate, Then
really you can kind of go in atany time to get a mammogram and
(38:30):
that's not going to differ toomuch.
You know, some women still havelike hormone cycles that are
that are happening even thoughthey're not menstruating.
So just just knowing your body,know if you have kind of this
breast cycle and their you knowtimes of the month that are more
tender or not, whether or notyour your menstruating is is
good to know.
But I would say, don't let asmall fear of potential pain not
(38:57):
all mammograms are painful putyou off from doing a mammogram.
Think about the protection andhelp that that's giving you,
because chemo is a lot morepainful than a mammogram.
Right, and if you can getdiagnosed really early, you can
avoid chemo.
So it's that exchange of maybea little discomfort now for you
(39:20):
know, protecting your health,protecting your financial health
.
You know, by doing this,mammograms are free.
They're included with anyhealthcare insurance.
If you don't have insurance,your state will have programs to
help you get screened.
So there's there's fewer andfewer excuses now to avoid
mammograms.
They're they're less painfulthan they used to be.
(39:41):
They use far less radiationthan they used to.
It's very, very minimal amounts, it's very safe, low dose and
and it can save your life.
So, that being said, it's alsogood to know if you have dense
breast tissue, and that'ssomething that you find out with
your mammogram.
So dense breast tissue isn'tperkiness, it's not something
(40:03):
that you can feel or see.
It has to do with the makeup ofyour own breast tissue.
Black women tend to have denserbreasts, and it can make a
mammogram harder to see throughthat tissue, and so they have 3D
mammography, which is availablein a lot of places that can
(40:24):
help see through dense breasttissue a little bit better, and
then there's also supplementalultrasound that can help with
that as well.
So it'd be good to talk to yourdoctor to find out what level
of breast density you have.
You only find that out by doinga mammogram, so you need to get
that first mammogram done tofind out if you have dense
breasts.
And if you do have densebreasts, talk to your doctor
(40:46):
about if you need additionalimaging to make sure that you're
getting screened according toyour breast type.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Thank you so much.
You have convinced me.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
We're going to talk about it,all right, so thank you.
Last question for you.
Well, okay, I cheated.
It's like a twofer.
It's a twofer, all right.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
All right?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
The first one what advice does Know your Lemon and
in particular you have for otherorganizations looking to adopt
a similar approach in makinghealth information accessible
and inclusive in the context ofwellness?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yes, the first thing is to start by walking in their
shoes.
Work with the people thatyou're wanting to educate.
See it from their point of view.
Get their thoughts on things.
If you're an organizationthat's looking at how can we
better educate for health,that's where you need to start
is having the people you'rewanting to educate on board with
you as you develop things.
That's really important ForKnow your Lemons.
(41:46):
We have programs that make itreally easy to bring it into the
workplace.
We have a schools program thatwe're doing right now testing
out in some schools, which isgoing really well, which is
because we never show breasts.
We can show this in schoolsfairly easily.
It's not part of sex education.
Breasts are not a sex organ, assexy as they may be to some.
(42:09):
Breasts don't help you make ababy.
Technically, they don't helpyou make a baby.
This is health education we cando outside of sex, which is
needed If we learn about this inschool, when we're already
(42:30):
designed to be learning aboutour bodies.
We learn about every part of thebody except breasts.
In school it's created thisknowledge gap of people not sure
if they should do mammograms orthinking I don't have a family
history of it, so I'm fine.
I don't know how to doself-exams, or I don't
understand breast anatomy, so Idon't know what I'm feeling.
We can tackle that in schools.
(42:52):
Then the students have theassignment to go home and show
this information with theirfamily and ask their mom have
you been getting a mammogram?
What can we do to support youto get this done?
Do I need to remind you?
Can I help you?
Having a child come home and sayI care about your health and I
want you to look after yourselfis far more convincing than any
(43:13):
commercial or billboard wouldever be.
How do we start theseconversations at home about the
most common cancer in the worldthat can save lives if we can
just detect it early througheducation?
We work with companies to docorporate wellness programs.
We work with schools.
(43:34):
We work with healthcareproviders in being able to
educate their patients moreeffectively.
Reach out to us.
We've already created the thing.
We want you to use it.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Which is amazing.
And then my last question youtalked about this free app,
which is just mind blowing,award winning, useful and
helpful.
You've talked about all thefree education services that you
provide, but how can ourlisteners and other business
owners that I know are listeningto my podcast support your
(44:10):
efforts?
How can we help increase yourreach?
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yes.
So there's lots of ways to getinvolved.
So the first thing we say iswe're here to educate you and
then you can help us educateothers.
So download the app.
You know you use it, you knowdo the screening assessment, all
those things first and then,once you're educated, donate,
become a monthly donor.
You know the app is availablefor free because we have people
(44:37):
who very kindly donate funds tous and then, as a company, you
can contact us about bringing inthe wellness program.
You can buy materials from ourshop to educate your employees.
We have cute t-shirts, we'vegot blankets, we've got all
kinds of really fun things onour Know your Lemon shop on our
(45:00):
website.
So there are lots of differentthings people can do.
And you can also volunteer soyou can become a Lemanista with
us and you can take our onlinetraining course and we will
teach you everything you need toknow about breast health.
We give you teaching materialsand you can come in and become
(45:22):
one of our global Lemanistas.
Join our global network, meetpeople from around the world who
also care about women's healthbecause this is a topic that's
important to them.
So we have breast cancersurvivors who are Lemanistas.
We have people who have had itin their family and want to make
a proactive difference in it,and people who just care about
(45:43):
the cause.
So you know, donate a littlebit of spit and get squished at
your mammogram and make surethat you're doing everything you
should, according to your risk,and taking good care of
yourself and those around you.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I think I just came up with another marketing thing,
the four S's Spit, squish,study and do what you should.
We got to figure out how tomake that work.
We ended up kind of talkingabout the doom and gloom, but I
do want to end on a positivenote of what we can do to
prevent or reduce these risks,even if we have the genetic
(46:23):
predisposition or we don't.
You've already said 85% atleast of those new cases are no
family history.
15% of them are.
So how do we do that we knowabout maintaining a healthy
weight and limited alcoholintake?
What are some other things youcan tell us we can do?
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Yeah, I know.
So how I like to explain riskis it's kind of like putting
tickets into a really bad raffle, right?
So maybe you exercise reallywell and you're a healthy weight
and you don't drink or smoke,you don't have a family history,
all those things.
All that means is you're goingto have fewer tickets in that
raffle, but it doesn't mean youcan't be picked.
(47:07):
So maybe you've got threetickets in that raffle and
someone else has 20.
It'll be less likely that youget it, but it's not impossible
for you to get it, whereassomebody may have several risk
factors for breast cancer and sothey've got 20 tickets into
that raffle and maybe they'remore likely to get picked, but
it doesn't mean they absolutelywill be.
(47:27):
So that's what cancer risk islike.
It's like there are things thatyou can do that can mean that
there are fewer tickets in thatbad raffle.
So exercise is good.
If sometimes we think aboutexercises being like 30 minutes
of rigorous aerobic activity,start with just moving around
(47:53):
more, sitting a little bit less,take those small steps, Like
any movement is good movement.
And sometimes we think I can'tdo this big exercise thing, so
I'm just going to sit on thecouch.
So just think about what somesmall movements that you can do.
You know we're placing somethings with better food, that
(48:16):
sort of thing.
Some other things that havereduced risk is, if you can,
having children earlier in lifecan reduce your risk at
breastfeeding, can reduce riskfor breast cancer, those types
of things.
So those are consideredcontrollable risk factors.
(48:36):
I don't know how much we reallycan control whether or not to
have kids and when to have them.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Or how long they'll take the breast milk, even if
you do.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Exactly Right.
It's like sure we could controlthat, but it's good to know.
But again, it comes back tothat kind of like raffle
mentality, because every timeonline we talk about
breastfeeding can reduce yourrisk for breast cancer
Immediately, we have tons ofcomments of people saying I
breastfed all my babies for thislong and I still got breast
(49:07):
cancer.
And you shouldn't be sayingthis, right?
So it's no, it means that itcan pull some of those tickets
out of the raffle.
But there's no such thing, asnobody has no tickets in the
raffle.
So there are some things youcan do to pull some tickets out
of that raffle and there arejust some things that it's just
what we're born with and thosetickets are there regardless.
(49:28):
Again, if you are aging, everyyear you might add a couple more
tickets into that raffle.
You know, if you're a woman,you got those tickets.
So there are just some thingsthat are controllable risk
factors and some things that arenot.
So knowing what you can do,what you can be proactive with,
you know and it's not just forbreast cancer and any good habit
(49:51):
we pick up is going to help usacross the board, right.
So thinking about those thingsand prioritizing it, taking time
for ourselves.
It's hard, it's not easy.
It's not easy to say I'm goingto keep up on exercise all the
time.
We have busy lives and I'mcertainly guilty of that.
Start by giving yourself smallthings to do, and any movement
(50:14):
is good movement.
Start with that and then workyour way up till you find
something you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Thank you for that.
I think that was the bestanalogy that I have ever heard,
and thinking about it in termsof just that bad raffle, I mean
that is powerful.
So I appreciate you sharing.
When you were talking, Iimmediately thought about my
professor in college, who's anEnglish professor, and the man.
(50:42):
The professor lived in Auburn,alabama.
My school was in Tuskegee,alabama.
It's about 15 miles fromTuskegee to Auburn.
He rode his bike to school andback home every day.
It's how he got to school.
He was vegan.
He was always doing somethingjust healthy for himself.
(51:06):
He didn't do like cars becausehe didn't like toxins and
pollutants and like all of thatkind of thing.
And still, at 51, he had amassive heart attack and died.
And you would think, wow, youknow, I've done all of these
things to eliminate my badraffle tickets and still you get
(51:26):
tickets in this raffle.
And your analogy just reallyput it into perspective for me,
because you think I'm doingeverything right.
You said, if I do this, if I dothis and if I do that, it won't
happen to me.
And that's not what we'resaying.
We're saying you're going totake some of your tickets away.
You still may win the raffle.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yeah, exactly, and you know some people may say,
well, if it might happen to me,anyway, you know why bother
trying to pull any tickets out?
Well, the thing is like thinkabout his quality of life up
until 51.
It sounds like it was prettygood, amazing.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Amazing and he got to enjoy and do as much things,
and be it.
It was sudden, it was instant.
He didn't die a miserable death, he wasn't wearing the pins or
anything like that, he was fullyfunctioning.
So it happens, andunfortunately, death is not
something that we can avoid.
But if it's something that wecan do on our own terms and a
(52:28):
positive place, without pain andsuffering or being losing our
dignity or our finances, right,you still have that nest egg
that you can leave for the lovedones that you have.
Those are good wins.
Those are called good ways todie.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, right, I mean, it's life.
No one gets out alive, right?
That's the nature.
Yeah, that's how it is With ourcharity.
Our goal is for you to die fromsomething else.
Don't die from breast cancer.
Let's do what we can to takethat off your list of like.
This is what killed me, right?
(53:09):
So live as long, happy,positive, wonderful life as
possible.
That's our goal, and you knowwe can do that through early
detection.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Thank you so much for sharing.
I want to be respectful of yourtime.
I could go on and on.
I know I still have likeanother.
This is great.
Have another like a battery ofquestions.
So we'll have to do this again.
Post my mammogram and we'lltalk about the excitement of
that first mammogram and thatkind of thing.
That'd be great.
I want to thank you humbly forjoining us.
(53:44):
It's been very enlightening andinformative, encouraging, and I
know you've got a world to saveright, so I'm going to let you
go.
As we wrap up this enlighteningdiscussion on genetics and
breast cancer awareness with DrCorinne Ellsworth Beaumont, ceo
(54:04):
of Know your Limons, we extendour heartfelt thanks to each of
you for tuning in.
Remember, knowledge is powerand understanding the genetic
aspects of breast cancer canmake a significant impact on
early detection and prevention.
This is how we save lives.
(54:25):
Stay informed, stay proactiveand join us on the journey to
better health.
Thank you for being a part ofthe demystifying DNA and Know
your Limons collaboration.
I want to encourage each of mylisteners.
I've never asked you foranything.
Go to knowyourlimonsorg,download the app, become
(54:49):
familiar and partner with thisamazing organization.
Thank you all and be well untilnext time.
Thanks, tiffany, thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
P23 Knowledge, Access , Power.
P23 Wellness and Understandingat your Fingertips.
P23 that's no Cap.
P23 Knowledge, access , power.
P23, wellness and Understandingat your fingertips P23.
And that's no cap.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to a very special episode of Demystifying
DNA.
Today, we are inviting a veryspecial guest, know your Limits.
I'm your host, dr TiffanyMontgomery, and we are going to
delve into the crucialintersection of genetics and
(00:42):
breast cancer awareness with ourspecial guest, dr Corinne
Ellsworth-Bomont.
Ceo of Know your Limits.
Dr Corinne Ellsworth-Bomont,mfa, phd, is a visionary digital
designer who leveragestechnology and design to
(01:04):
revolutionize breast cancerdetection through the work of
her global charity, the Knowyour Limits Foundation.
Since 2017, her impactfulcampaign app and global educator
program has reached over 1.85billion people in 34 languages.
(01:26):
Her foundation supports thework of a robust global
partnership network thatdelivers Know your Limits breast
education on a grassroots levelin over 60 countries, saving
lives worldwide.
Beyond her groundbreaking work,corinne serves on international
(01:50):
panels, including the WHOGlobal Breast Cancer Initiative,
and has spoken at prestigiousevents like the United Nations
Conference.
Her TEDx talk highlights herinnovative approach, earning a
standing ovation.
Alongside her professionalendeavors, corinne enjoys travel
(02:14):
adventures with her daughter.
Welcome, dr Boma, to my showCan.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I call you Corinne.
Yes, you can Thank you, tiffanyDr T.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You're welcome, just call me Tiffany, just call me.
I'm so happy to have you andthank you for joining us as we
debunk myths and explore thevital role of genetics and
understanding breast cancer riskand prevention.
Together, we aim to empower youwith essential knowledge to
protect your health andwell-being.
Corinne, I have to ask you youknow this is a phenomenal
(02:51):
organization.
You've touched so many liveswhat made you start this
non-for-profit?
Know your Limits.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
So when I was starting my master's degree in
graphic design, I lost my secondgrandmother to breast cancer.
And at that point I realized Ithink this is in my family, I
think this is a health issue Ishould know more about.
And I realized I didn't knowanything about breast health.
So I went online, I looked up alot of information and went to
(03:24):
a cancer library in my area andsaid, hey, I'm in my early 20s,
I have a family history ofbreast cancer, what should I be
doing?
And they said, well, we don'tget people your age coming in
here asking these questions.
But here's a book, here's someleaflets, here are some websites
(03:44):
.
And I ended up leaving withmore questions than I had going
in.
And I was also looking at thisthrough the eyes of a designer
and looking at the materials.
And I don't know about you, butwhenever you're at the doctor's
office and you see pamphlets orthe five-year-old issue of
People Magazine, most of us arepicking up the People Magazine
(04:05):
when we're finding out how Bradand Angelina are enjoying their
lives in France.
So we do not go to the medicalinformation.
We'd rather read old celebritynews than learn about the five
facts concerning whatever bodypart.
So I thought design can make abig difference.
(04:28):
As a designer, I can make thisinformation interesting.
So does it require two familymembers dying before we start to
seek this out?
What if this information becameappealing?
What if it became engaging andinteresting to look at?
So that's where I started outwith the basic questions I had
were do I have an increased riskfor breast cancer?
(04:48):
When should I start gettingmammograms?
People say, fill for a lump.
But what does a lump feel like?
Because there's lumps in ourbody everywhere, because our
bodies aren't just things of gooright, we've got an ad for it,
especially with breasts.
Right, we've got milk ducks andlymph nodes and all kinds of
things.
(05:08):
So just being able tounderstand those questions is
where I began.
So I started working on it aspart of my three-year master's
project.
I worked alongside physicians,I talked to patients.
I really did everything I couldto be in someone's shoes, just
to understand the diagnosticprocess how are the different
(05:29):
kinds of symptoms?
And through that research cameup with a whole new way of being
able to talk about breast byusing lemons as a visual
metaphor, visual substitute forthat, so that you can get really
specific information to showthis is what this symptom looks
like without ever having to showa breast.
You can show it on a lemoninstead, which is great, because
(05:50):
lemons have nipples, lemonshave skin pores and if you cut a
lemon, navel to navel, itresembles breast and abby.
So there's a lot of reallyinteresting things you can do
when you have a new way oflooking at the breasts and you
can show people actual symptomsin detail without ever having to
(06:12):
be censored.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And we talk a lot about the education part.
I think that that is phenomenal.
When we're younger, we jokeabout breasts or, you know, we
refer to them without saying theword breast.
I've heard people call themmelons, but your approach to
call them lemons was very unique.
It stood out to me and itcaught my attention and it
helped me see the similaritiesthat you just don't see.
(06:36):
I think because the lemon issmaller and most girls,
especially when they're younger,they kind of want more than
just the lemon amount.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, I mean, that's a great thing.
So when I started off lookingfor the metaphor, I photographed
42 different objects.
I did melons and jugs, andcones and all kinds of things.
And as I was doing this I waslike, ok, melons are known for
size, so if I use melons, thisis sending the subliminal
(07:07):
message of breast cancer forlarger breasted women.
So I'm like I have to take thatout.
I can't use melons For thingslike milk jugs.
Milk jugs look different indifferent parts of the world,
right?
Not everyone has milk jugs.
So I'm like, nope, that's notgoing to work because it's not
going to be able to translateglobally.
So I wanted to find an objectthat people work familiar with
(07:29):
that hadn't already been usedwith breasts, so that way it
could be a fresh metaphor thatdidn't have something else
attached to it, but somethingelse really interesting.
That happened when I wasshadowing at an imaging center
and I was talking to themammography technician and
talking to the radiologist andasking questions about what does
the cancerous lump feel like?
Because a lot of the literaturejust said feel for something
(07:52):
different, you'll know it whenyou see it, type of thing.
And I'm like, well, that's nota lot of information.
Just to say you'll know it whenyou see it.
What information is that?
So when I was talking to thetechnician because she had felt
many lumps and she was doing herwork, and I said, is it squishy
(08:14):
like a grape?
And she says, well, it can bethat size.
And I'm like, no, how does itfeel?
And she says, well, it's oftenhard like a nut.
And when she said that, Ithought or a lemon seed.
And then that's when themetaphor became complete Is it?
If you're feeling something?
Anything that feels differentto anything else in the breast
needs to be investigated, right?
(08:35):
Cancer doesn't just say Ipresent in this one way for
everyone, but as the generalrule, cancer slumps are hard,
and the longer it is there, themore immovable it becomes, and
so if you find something that'shard and immovable, that's
definitely something that needsto be referred to a doctor.
(08:55):
Sometimes these things arecysts, which is a harmless thing
that happens in the breast, butyou only know these answers
when you get it followed upthrough testing.
So you know, having thatmetaphor of the lemon seed and a
lemon looking like a lemon andthe inside of a lemon looking
like breast anatomy, you coulduse it to educate on lots of
(09:16):
different aspects of breasthealth.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Which is amazing.
And I'm just going to ask youcan you elaborate on your
organization's commitment to notjust being informative but also
emotionally supportive in itsengagement with individuals and
I want to just say individuals,because we know breast cancer
can affect men and women, right?
So we want to be inclusive.
(09:40):
I just want to know how do youfoster that collaboration and
that sensitivity?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, so the because we use lemons and whenever we
show the lemons, they're notattached to a body, they're just
lemons on their own.
So because of that, we cancommunicate with any gender,
because we're focused on lemonsand not a body.
So that's really useful.
Also, because we're focused onlemons, it works for any
(10:08):
ethnicity Because, again, we'renot calling out a specific
ethnicity, so we're not callingout a specific gender.
We're not calling out aspecific ethnicity.
We're not even calling out aspecific age.
We were doing this becausewe're using lemons as the
vehicle and lemons are notassociated with an age or
ethnicity or gender, so thatmakes it a very neutral way of
(10:28):
discussing it.
So that's why our campaign isso universal and we're able to
use it around the world.
In so many places In some partsof the world, lemons are green,
so our Know your Lemons campaignhas green lemons that feature
in that.
So that's one of theadjustments that we make.
But we use a lot of reallycolorful graphics, which makes
(10:54):
the information friendly.
So a lot of cancer relatedpublications are very clinical
looking, they're very seriousand anything important is
written through text.
So for people who don't havetime to read a lot of things
which was most of us.
(11:14):
For people who aren'tinterested in reading a lot of
text, which is most of us like,the message becomes inaccessible
at that point and then forpeople who have lower literacy,
then it really becomesinaccessible.
So our goal is to make it moreaccessible.
To make it more universal ishow can, how can we leverage
(11:35):
visuals to do most of thecommunication in a way that
requires very little text, iscolorful and friendly in the way
that it looks, so it's moreapproachable, and then also is
universal, so it can appeal toall these different age groups
and ethnicities and genders.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So before I get to the fun stuff.
I'm going to ask you, just asfellow female business owner
with a vision to fellow businessfemale owner with a vision I
know I have and I have to assumeyou have to also her people say
why would you do this, or howis it going to work, or this is
(12:15):
silly, yeah, and for thosepeople today, I like you to
share some success stories whereyour organization's friendly,
inclusive, dynamic marketingapproach has made a significant
impact on individuals lives,with making this information
more acceptable and accessible.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, definitely.
I'd love to tell you a storyabout a woman named Brian E in
Australia.
So she was at her doctor'soffice getting ready to check
out at the counter when shenoticed our 12 signs of breast
cancer poster up there and Irealized we're on a podcast.
So I'll just pause for a minuteto see if you haven't yet, Go
to know your lemons dot org andsee the image that I'm about to
(12:59):
talk about.
So this, this is the image thathas saved a lot of lives around
the world, and what it is isit's 12 lemons inside of an egg
carton and each of those lemonshows a different symptom of
breast cancer.
So this poster was hung up atthis doctor's office.
As she's checking out, shelooks at the poster and one of
the lemons catches her eye,which is a dimple.
(13:21):
So one of the symptoms ofbreast cancers is having an
indentation in the breast.
And she looks at that and says,well, hold on, I have that on
my breast.
Is that a symptom of breastcancer?
And so immediately she broughtit up with her doctor and 20
days later she started her firstchemo treatment for stage two
(13:45):
breast cancer.
Now, if Briani had not haveseen that poster, how bad would
it have needed to be before sherecognized this was a problem?
It was painless, there were nolumps.
It, you know, there's.
As we get older, we have otherdents and dimples in our body
(14:06):
that show up right.
And so she just thought oh,this is aging.
And so that that's one story.
And there are many stories likethat of people saying because I
saw this image, it gave meinformation and it gave me
confidence because it wascommunicated so clearly that I
knew I needed to do somethingabout it.
(14:26):
So there's also Jessica inFrance.
She saw our image on socialmedia and decided you know what
I need to get better at myselfexams.
So she decided, after seeingthat image, I'm going to be
regular about doing myself exams.
Couple years later she noticesalum.
She goes to her doctor.
(14:48):
She's in her early 30s and andhe says you're statistically
this is unlikely, You're tooyoung for breast cancer, so I'm
not going to refer you fortesting.
So she's sent away.
She comes back again and says Ireally think that there's an
issue here.
(15:08):
And he's again tells her no, Idon't think this needs
investigated.
The third time she goes backand they said OK, fine, we'll
refer you for an ultrasound.
So she gets an ultrasound, thetechnician looks at it and says
(15:30):
we definitely see somethingthere, but it looks harmless to
us.
But what Jessica knew was thatshe was now showing three
symptoms of breast cancer andshe's like there's no way I'm
showing three symptoms of breastcancer and this thing that's
appearing is harmless.
She says I just knew, combinedwith the information she had and
(15:52):
her instincts, something waswrong.
And so they said OK, do youwant to buy Opsi?
And basically the biopsy wasoffered as a way of just being
like.
And then you leave us alone andshe's like yes, I want to buy
Opsi.
So they do the biopsy and itwas stage one, triple negative
breast cancer.
Now, triple negative breastcancer is a very aggressive form
(16:14):
of breast cancer.
It can grow very quickly andcatching it early is really
difficult.
So for her to have found triplenegative breast cancer at stage
one is pretty significant andthat was because she knew the
symptoms, she knew her body, sheknew what was normal for her
and that this was different andshe knew how to advocate for
(16:35):
herself.
So you know, we hear that storytime and time again.
People see our work, theyrecognize they have a problem,
they go to the doctor.
Sometimes they're dismissed butthey persevere.
They know that something'swrong and then they insist on
getting the testing they needand that's how they're diagnosed
early.
And when people are diagnosedearly, that makes all the
difference in survival.
(16:56):
So when someone's diagnosed atstage one, the survival rates
like over 99%.
When someone is diagnosed atthe latest stage, stage four,
it's more like in the 32% range.
So there's a huge difference insaving a life If you can get
people diagnosed early.
(17:16):
And the two things for that areknowing what's normal for you by
, you know, practicing regularself-exams just to get to know
your normal.
And the second one is gettingscreened according to your risk.
So if you're average risk, youshould start getting a mammogram
every year, age 40.
And if you're at higher risk,then you might need a breast MRI
(17:37):
with that or you startmammograms at an earlier age.
So knowing that information isreally important and our Know
your Limits app will help peopleunderstand what those risk
factors are, what screening planyou should discuss with your
doctor and send you monthlyreminders of how to self-exam
what each part of the breastfeels like.
Details on each of them isreally useful.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I don't want to stop you, Karim, but did I just hear
you say you have an app that wecan download to remind us of
when to do our self-exams?
It will have the images of thelemons and what we should look
for.
And it will be an interactiveway for us to look at what's
going on with our body, andyou're designing this app.
(18:21):
Yes, and it's free.
How much does it?
It's free, wow, wow.
So it's free.
It's on Apple, I'm assuming, onAndroid and maybe Google Play
Store, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, it's for any device.
We have it, so it's free.
We don't collect any healthinformation.
That's your business.
It all stays on your phone andwe've won several Webby Awards,
which is like the Oscars of theInternet were nominated.
Wow.
As a top five health and fitness.
(18:58):
So get it.
It's really like saving.
Several people have said Ididn't know how to do self-exam
until the app and now I feelmore confident in what I'm doing
, whereas before I kind of waslike there's lumps, I don't know
what to do, and they kind ofyou know, decide I'm not
engaging with this anymore.
It's too confusing.
We've even had someone thatsaid I found my love because of
(19:21):
the app teaching me how to doself-exam.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
So I'll have to admit , kudo, see you when I had about
this app.
I've had my husband get itbecause I'm like you can help me
look for stuff.
Like we need to be looking atit.
Yeah, we're not going to writeit off as just getting older,
like we're going to be on thelookout because I do agree,
early detection is the key.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So, for all the work that you've done until we have a
cure for all the differenttypes of breast cancer.
The best thing we can do rightnow to save lives Absolute best
thing we can do is educateourselves and take steps for
early detection.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You are amazing, so let's get to some fun stuff.
Okay, a lot of people here, alot of myths about breast cancer
.
We know is so serious it can bedifficult to talk about.
So I'm going to get into acouple of myths, and the first
one is breast cancer is causedby wearing underwire bras.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
You know, wouldn't it be great if we could just get
rid of underwires and it wouldsolve so many problems, like
wouldn't that just be, nice tobe like you know what we're on a
rare bra and now breast canceris solved right.
So yeah, we don't live in thatworld.
That's not how it works right,like like under wire bra.
This may be uncomfortable, butthey're not cancer-causing.
(20:34):
So, that's a myth.
That's a myth, and anyone who'strying to sell you a bra that's
going to like prevent breastcancer, they're trying to make
money off of you.
Good to know.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Now, what about this one?
I think we can have the talksabout this one, but we're going
to go myth or fat, okay.
Breast cancer only affectswomen.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Ask fiancee's dad that question.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I'll tell you that that is not true.
That is not true.
This is because both men andwomen have breasts.
Both men and women have breasttissue.
It's women are able to havemilk producing facilities with
their breasts, but men do not.
But both men and women can getbreast cancer.
So it's rare but it does happen.
(21:23):
So 1% of people diagnosed withbreast cancer are men.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Here's one that I get all the time Breast cancer is
caused by deodorant.
If we take the aluminum out ofour deodorant or put on baking
soda instead of deodorant, we'llbe able to stop breast cancer
Again.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
What a wonderful world to live in that if we can
just switch our deodorant, likebreast cancer goes away.
That's not how cancer works.
There have been several studiesthat have looked at it that
have said that there's not acorrelation between
antiperspirant and breast cancer.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
One of my personal favorites and I believe me, I'm
not making this up.
These are things that we hear,that we get a lot, so I would
like to hear from you on it.
Breast cancer is contagious.
It can be spread from person toperson.
So if I have breast cancer andmy husband touches my breast or
(22:22):
we're intimate, can he contractbreast cancer?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
No, so cancer is under the category of
non-communicable diseases.
So non-communicable meansyou're not transferring it from
person to person.
It's not airborne.
You can't chance where it wasflew.
That's not how cancer works.
So cancer is where a celldoesn't normally grow and divide
(22:51):
and die as it should.
It doesn't follow the normalpattern of how cells develop.
So it's a very broad term.
There's lots of ways cells cango awry.
So cancer and different typesof cancer are all labeling
different ways cells go awry.
So this is why with breastcancer there's not just one kind
(23:16):
.
There's several different kindsof breast cancer and they're
all treated a little bitdifferently.
So kind of knowing that is alsouseful, that's.
Another myth is that there'sjust one kind of breast cancer
but there's many kinds of breastcancer.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
The last one, breast cancer is always hereditary, so
I don't have a family history ofit.
It's not something that I needto be concerned about, because
you can't get it if it's nothereditary.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You know, this is the most prolific myth, and I think
the reason why this myth is sobeloved is because it feels like
protection.
And so this is the statisticthat's going to surprise people
who are hearing this 85% ofpeople diagnosed with breast
cancer have no family history ofit.
(24:05):
85% of people diagnosed withbreast cancer have no, no family
history of it.
They're the very first personin their family to be diagnosed.
So the number one thing we hearwhen we're going out, we're
educating people and saying hey,are you getting your mammogram?
They say, well, you know, Icould you know, but it doesn't
(24:27):
run in my family, so I don'treally have to worry about it.
If you're a woman and you aregetting older, congratulations.
You need to worry about itbecause one in eight women will
get breast cancer in theirlifetime.
So that that means if you havea room of 75 year old women and
there are eight of them, one ofthem will have had breast cancer
(24:49):
at some point in their life.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Okay, corinne.
So we talked about the myththat breast cancer is always
hereditary.
We debunk that.
You blow my mind with this 85%statistic right Of new cases not
having the history at all.
Tell me what happens in that15% instance where there is a
(25:12):
family history, or women do havethat family history, of breast
cancer.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, exactly.
So if you have a first degreerelative so mother, child,
sibling that doubles your riskfor breast cancer.
So, and if you have multiplefamily members with breast
cancer, then that can increaseyour risk as well.
But there are other cancersthat are related to breast
(25:37):
cancer.
So, for example, ovarian canceris related, prostate cancer is
related, there are a coupleothers as well.
So, knowing that if you have afamily history of a couple
cancers, they might actually berelated to a genetic mutation
and that genetic mutation canincrease your risk for breast
(25:58):
cancer.
Now, the other day I ran into anold friend that I hadn't seen
for a while and she was tellingme that her mother had just had
her second case of breast cancer.
And she says, yes, and my auntshad breast cancer as well, and
(26:20):
another relative had anotherbreast cancer.
And she says I guess I justhave to wait and see if it
happens to me.
And I said well, have you hadgenetic testing?
And she says, well, I don'tknow if I wanna know the answer.
And I said you do, you want toknow the answer?
And the reason for that is thatif you know you have a genetic
(26:41):
mutation, all of these tests andoptions open up to you to help
you find it earlier.
So if you have, for instance,the BRCA mutation for breast
cancer, then they'll say, okay,great, we're gonna do a breast
MRI and we're gonna add that toyour screening plan because
(27:02):
that's gonna help us be able tospot things as early as possible
if it shows up.
So having a genetic mutationdoesn't mean you will get cancer
.
It means you've got more of achance of getting it.
There's also other options ofthings you can do to reduce your
risk.
But if you don't know if youhave that genetic mutation, none
of those options for earlydetection that would help you
(27:23):
will be available to you.
So it's really important toknow that.
If you're looking at lifeinsurance, it's good to get that
life insurance plan figured outbefore you do genetic testing.
So that's something to keep inmind.
If you're looking at doinggenetic testing, get maybe your
life insurance plan signed upfor then do the genetic testing
(27:45):
afterwards.
But so in my family breastcancer on both sides.
You have a 50-50 chance ofgetting a gene from either
parent.
So there's no such thing as,like just the mother's side or
just the father's side genes mix.
So I don't have a geneticmutation that is known.
(28:11):
We're learning more and moreabout genetics as time goes on,
and so right now I have no knownmutation, but the more we learn
, it might be that I have thisgenetic mutation that just
hasn't been discovered yet.
Some other flags for ifsomething could potentially be
genetic in your family is thatsomeone is diagnosed before age
50, if the person diagnosed is aman, if breast cancer showed up
(28:42):
in both breasts at the sametime, or both ovaries for a very
cancer.
So there are a couple of thingsthat might indicate this could
be genetic, if it's happeningearlier or more aggressively
those sorts of things.
So it's good to know thatinformation and really know your
health history.
So start by figuring out yourhealth history and then talk to
(29:03):
your doctor.
The Know your Lemons app willask you these questions and it
creates a little bullet pointlist of risk factors for you to
talk to your doctor about and tosee if genetic testing would be
useful for you.
You know we live in a day andage where we're able to get
access to a lot of informationand we're having testing that's
more precise and tailored tospecific things that we may have
(29:27):
.
Knowing answers only gives usmore power to do something about
that.
You know, rather than you know.
The last thing we should bedoing is sitting and waiting for
something to happen.
It's we can be more proactiveand do things.
So again, if you've got familyhistory of breast cancer or
related cancers, really look atgenetic testing as something
(29:52):
that can help save your life andhelp your family's lives.
You know, maybe you'll neverget breast cancer, but maybe
that's gonna save your auntbecause you were proactive about
it to say, hey, family, let'sbe on top of this.
Let's not sit and wait forsomething to happen.
Let's be proactive and see whatwe can do to reduce our risk
and really take care ofourselves as a family.
(30:13):
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
So thank you for sharing that.
It is very much in line withthe National Breast Cancer
Foundation, and the most commongenes that are looked at for
breast cancer as it stands noware BRCA1 and BRCA2,.
But you illuminated to a verygood point, or you eluded to a
(30:38):
very good point, when you saidthose are the genes we know
about now.
Right, so there could beanother gene indicator that
we're unaware of and, as such,you haven't been tested for it
because it hasn't been offered.
You mentioned both of yourgrandmothers, that's maternal
and paternal, lost their fightwith breast cancer, and I would
(31:00):
have to assume it was detectedlater, because the later it is,
the worse your chances are forsuccess.
Is that true, or have you found?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
So there's different kinds of breast cancer, right?
So if you have triple negativeit's really aggressive.
It's hard to find that one asearly.
Sometimes it grows more quickly.
So there's kind of that option.
With my father's mother, she wasdiagnosed in her mid-30s.
(31:31):
That was many decades ago now,so we don't have a lot of
information on what type ofbreast cancer she had.
My other grandmother wasdiagnosed in her late 50s and so
again, there wasn't a lot ofinformation that was really
(31:53):
gathered at the time.
So I've had genetic testingbecause of the work I do.
I think it's I call it one ofthe work hazards is I'm hearing
stories every day of peoplegetting diagnosed with breast
cancer because of this or that,et cetera.
So I'm hyper-vigilant on itbecause I hear I know all the
(32:15):
ways that cancer presents itselfand all the different things.
So yeah, but there are manydifferent genes.
I don't know the total numberright now, but there's at least
30 genetic mutations that areconnected to breast cancer.
All of them have differentimplications on risk.
(32:39):
I know some companies justoffer, like the BRCA1 and BRCA2
testing.
It's much better if you get thefull test.
I'll explain why.
My friend Suzanne that I lost tobreast cancer.
She was diagnosed in her late20s and so we were thinking this
(33:03):
has to be genetic, like to bediagnosed that young.
And they did the test and said,no, there's no genetics.
And then her sister wasdiagnosed with breast cancer a
few years later and then theysaid, well, let's look at this
again.
And they did the full panel andrecognized that she had the PAL
B2 gene, so that thatinformation wasn't available
(33:31):
five years earlier.
So it's really interesting tosee the the progress that's made
in genetics and in learning howthis works.
And then there's also twodifferent kinds of genetic
mutations there's somatic andgermline, and those are fancy
terms, for you're born with itversus it just develops on its
(33:52):
own.
So knowing that can be reallyuseful too.
So again, we live in such aremarkable time where we have
all this access to informationat our fingertips and you know
you can spit into a tube and andit will tell you information
that you that can help save yourlife or make improve your
(34:13):
health.
So this idea of like it doesn'trun in my family and so I don't
need to worry about it.
Just isn't true, because mostpeople don't, and this is why
you hear so many people say Ididn't think it could happen to
me, it's not in my family andand it's.
It's growing and it's happeningat younger ages and so you know
, being aware of that andrecognizing, just for being a
(34:36):
woman and just for getting older, those are your two biggest
risk factors for breast cancer.
You know, if you find a way tostop aging, then sure.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
We want to, we don't want to.
We want to be here, we don'tstop.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Until we figure out this like not aging thing, like
we need to be getting ourmammograms, we need to be
getting self exam.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I will say that it is difficult.
It's challenging when Iseparate being a scientist and
being, you know, the super smartlady and the curious lady.
At the end of the day, when I'mjust wife, mom and just Tiffany
.
It can be hard.
You think it's going to hurtand then they have a lot of
(35:19):
changes.
Like you said, it keepschanging ages.
So, it used to be.
The standard of care was starscreen and then 45, then it went
to 44.
Now they're saying 40 and I'mlike it keeps going.
But we're having moreprecedence of it, and earlier
detection is the key.
There's no pattern to it as youstated.
(35:40):
It's unpredictable.
So what can we, as women, do toget over the fear of that first
mammogram or the pain that wethink might be associated with
it?
And now you're talking to me,so convince me to get that
mammogram.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Well, I'm going to give you some secrets.
I will give you some tips.
Okay, If you are menstruating,the best time to go is a few
days after your period ends,because this is when your
breasts are less tender.
So you probably noticed, thelast half of a menstrual cycle
your breasts get a littletalkative.
They're like, hey, I'm here,I'm uncomfortable, Right, and
(36:17):
you have tenderness, you havesome swelling, you have like
some temporary lumpiness.
That is normal.
That is hormones in the bodytrying to prepare you for a
potential pregnancy, Right.
And then it's like, oh, we'renot pregnant, and then hormones
go down.
So there's, there's, there'sthat, that breast cycle pattern
to know about.
So the app has a period trackerin.
(36:39):
It will send you reminders todo a self exam at the ideal time
every month.
If you don't menstruate, itwill send you a reminder on the
first of every month to do it,so that that's something to know
when you're scheduling yourmammogram.
And usually when you call theschedule, the mammogram, they
will ask you that question ofwhen when was your last period?
So that's tip number one.
Tip number two is to maybe takesome ibuprofen 30 minutes
(37:04):
beforehand if you're reallyconcerned about pain.
And so the last one is, aswomen we do far more painful
things than a mammogram.
If you have had a bikini wax,you can handle a mammogram Right
Like the.
You know.
If, if you can walk in heelsall day, you can handle a
(37:26):
mammogram Like like, this isnothing, this is nothing.
I've had mammograms where I'vedefinitely felt it and some
mammograms are as like that's it.
So sometimes it depends on thetechnician that you have.
If you say, hey, this is myfirst mammogram and and I'm
concerned about discomfort, youcan let that technician know and
(37:47):
say, I really appreciate if youcan, you know be, you know, I
mean they're going to be doingtheir best anyway, but sometimes
just you communicating that canhelp.
But the best comparison is tothink about it like getting your
blood pressure taken.
So you know you have that bloodpressure cuff around your arm
and you feel it and it getstight, but it's not like painful
(38:08):
and then, and then you havethat release.
That's really what a mammogramis like.
You've got that, thatcompression, that tightness, and
then and it only lasts for likea few seconds.
So you know, if for women whowho no longer menstruate, Then
really you can kind of go in atany time to get a mammogram and
(38:30):
that's not going to differ toomuch.
You know, some women still havelike hormone cycles that are
that are happening even thoughthey're not menstruating.
So just just knowing your body,know if you have kind of this
breast cycle and their you knowtimes of the month that are more
tender or not, whether or notyour your menstruating is is
good to know.
But I would say, don't let asmall fear of potential pain not
(38:57):
all mammograms are painful putyou off from doing a mammogram.
Think about the protection andhelp that that's giving you,
because chemo is a lot morepainful than a mammogram.
Right, and if you can getdiagnosed really early, you can
avoid chemo.
So it's that exchange of maybea little discomfort now for you
(39:20):
know, protecting your health,protecting your financial health
.
You know, by doing this,mammograms are free.
They're included with anyhealthcare insurance.
If you don't have insurance,your state will have programs to
help you get screened.
So there's there's fewer andfewer excuses now to avoid
mammograms.
They're they're less painfulthan they used to be.
(39:41):
They use far less radiationthan they used to.
It's very, very minimal amounts, it's very safe, low dose and
and it can save your life.
So, that being said, it's alsogood to know if you have dense
breast tissue, and that'ssomething that you find out with
your mammogram.
So dense breast tissue isn'tperkiness, it's not something
(40:03):
that you can feel or see.
It has to do with the makeup ofyour own breast tissue.
Black women tend to have denserbreasts, and it can make a
mammogram harder to see throughthat tissue, and so they have 3D
mammography, which is availablein a lot of places that can
(40:24):
help see through dense breasttissue a little bit better, and
then there's also supplementalultrasound that can help with
that as well.
So it'd be good to talk to yourdoctor to find out what level
of breast density you have.
You only find that out by doinga mammogram, so you need to get
that first mammogram done tofind out if you have dense
breasts.
And if you do have densebreasts, talk to your doctor
(40:46):
about if you need additionalimaging to make sure that you're
getting screened according toyour breast type.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Thank you so much.
You have convinced me.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
We're going to talk about it,all right, so thank you.
Last question for you.
Well, okay, I cheated.
It's like a twofer.
It's a twofer, all right.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
All right?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
The first one what advice does Know your Lemon and
in particular you have for otherorganizations looking to adopt
a similar approach in makinghealth information accessible
and inclusive in the context ofwellness?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yes, the first thing is to start by walking in their
shoes.
Work with the people thatyou're wanting to educate.
See it from their point of view.
Get their thoughts on things.
If you're an organizationthat's looking at how can we
better educate for health,that's where you need to start
is having the people you'rewanting to educate on board with
you as you develop things.
That's really important ForKnow your Lemons.
(41:46):
We have programs that make itreally easy to bring it into the
workplace.
We have a schools program thatwe're doing right now testing
out in some schools, which isgoing really well, which is
because we never show breasts.
We can show this in schoolsfairly easily.
It's not part of sex education.
Breasts are not a sex organ, assexy as they may be to some.
(42:09):
Breasts don't help you make ababy.
Technically, they don't helpyou make a baby.
This is health education we cando outside of sex, which is
needed If we learn about this inschool, when we're already
(42:30):
designed to be learning aboutour bodies.
We learn about every part of thebody except breasts.
In school it's created thisknowledge gap of people not sure
if they should do mammograms orthinking I don't have a family
history of it, so I'm fine.
I don't know how to doself-exams, or I don't
understand breast anatomy, so Idon't know what I'm feeling.
We can tackle that in schools.
(42:52):
Then the students have theassignment to go home and show
this information with theirfamily and ask their mom have
you been getting a mammogram?
What can we do to support youto get this done?
Do I need to remind you?
Can I help you?
Having a child come home and sayI care about your health and I
want you to look after yourselfis far more convincing than any
(43:13):
commercial or billboard wouldever be.
How do we start theseconversations at home about the
most common cancer in the worldthat can save lives if we can
just detect it early througheducation?
We work with companies to docorporate wellness programs.
We work with schools.
(43:34):
We work with healthcareproviders in being able to
educate their patients moreeffectively.
Reach out to us.
We've already created the thing.
We want you to use it.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Which is amazing.
And then my last question youtalked about this free app,
which is just mind blowing,award winning, useful and
helpful.
You've talked about all thefree education services that you
provide, but how can ourlisteners and other business
owners that I know are listeningto my podcast support your
(44:10):
efforts?
How can we help increase yourreach?
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yes.
So there's lots of ways to getinvolved.
So the first thing we say iswe're here to educate you and
then you can help us educateothers.
So download the app.
You know you use it, you knowdo the screening assessment, all
those things first and then,once you're educated, donate,
become a monthly donor.
You know the app is availablefor free because we have people
(44:37):
who very kindly donate funds tous and then, as a company, you
can contact us about bringing inthe wellness program.
You can buy materials from ourshop to educate your employees.
We have cute t-shirts, we'vegot blankets, we've got all
kinds of really fun things onour Know your Lemon shop on our
(45:00):
website.
So there are lots of differentthings people can do.
And you can also volunteer soyou can become a Lemanista with
us and you can take our onlinetraining course and we will
teach you everything you need toknow about breast health.
We give you teaching materialsand you can come in and become
(45:22):
one of our global Lemanistas.
Join our global network, meetpeople from around the world who
also care about women's healthbecause this is a topic that's
important to them.
So we have breast cancersurvivors who are Lemanistas.
We have people who have had itin their family and want to make
a proactive difference in it,and people who just care about
(45:43):
the cause.
So you know, donate a littlebit of spit and get squished at
your mammogram and make surethat you're doing everything you
should, according to your risk,and taking good care of
yourself and those around you.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I think I just came up with another marketing thing,
the four S's Spit, squish,study and do what you should.
We got to figure out how tomake that work.
We ended up kind of talkingabout the doom and gloom, but I
do want to end on a positivenote of what we can do to
prevent or reduce these risks,even if we have the genetic
(46:23):
predisposition or we don't.
You've already said 85% atleast of those new cases are no
family history.
15% of them are.
So how do we do that we knowabout maintaining a healthy
weight and limited alcoholintake?
What are some other things youcan tell us we can do?
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Yeah, I know.
So how I like to explain riskis it's kind of like putting
tickets into a really bad raffle, right?
So maybe you exercise reallywell and you're a healthy weight
and you don't drink or smoke,you don't have a family history,
all those things.
All that means is you're goingto have fewer tickets in that
raffle, but it doesn't mean youcan't be picked.
(47:07):
So maybe you've got threetickets in that raffle and
someone else has 20.
It'll be less likely that youget it, but it's not impossible
for you to get it, whereassomebody may have several risk
factors for breast cancer and sothey've got 20 tickets into
that raffle and maybe they'remore likely to get picked, but
it doesn't mean they absolutelywill be.
(47:27):
So that's what cancer risk islike.
It's like there are things thatyou can do that can mean that
there are fewer tickets in thatbad raffle.
So exercise is good.
If sometimes we think aboutexercises being like 30 minutes
of rigorous aerobic activity,start with just moving around
(47:53):
more, sitting a little bit less,take those small steps, Like
any movement is good movement.
And sometimes we think I can'tdo this big exercise thing, so
I'm just going to sit on thecouch.
So just think about what somesmall movements that you can do.
You know we're placing somethings with better food, that
(48:16):
sort of thing.
Some other things that havereduced risk is, if you can,
having children earlier in lifecan reduce your risk at
breastfeeding, can reduce riskfor breast cancer, those types
of things.
So those are consideredcontrollable risk factors.
(48:36):
I don't know how much we reallycan control whether or not to
have kids and when to have them.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Or how long they'll take the breast milk, even if
you do.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Exactly Right.
It's like sure we could controlthat, but it's good to know.
But again, it comes back tothat kind of like raffle
mentality, because every timeonline we talk about
breastfeeding can reduce yourrisk for breast cancer
Immediately, we have tons ofcomments of people saying I
breastfed all my babies for thislong and I still got breast
(49:07):
cancer.
And you shouldn't be sayingthis, right?
So it's no, it means that itcan pull some of those tickets
out of the raffle.
But there's no such thing, asnobody has no tickets in the
raffle.
So there are some things youcan do to pull some tickets out
of that raffle and there arejust some things that it's just
what we're born with and thosetickets are there regardless.
(49:28):
Again, if you are aging, everyyear you might add a couple more
tickets into that raffle.
You know, if you're a woman,you got those tickets.
So there are just some thingsthat are controllable risk
factors and some things that arenot.
So knowing what you can do,what you can be proactive with,
you know and it's not just forbreast cancer and any good habit
(49:51):
we pick up is going to help usacross the board, right.
So thinking about those thingsand prioritizing it, taking time
for ourselves.
It's hard, it's not easy.
It's not easy to say I'm goingto keep up on exercise all the
time.
We have busy lives and I'mcertainly guilty of that.
Start by giving yourself smallthings to do, and any movement
(50:14):
is good movement.
Start with that and then workyour way up till you find
something you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Thank you for that.
I think that was the bestanalogy that I have ever heard,
and thinking about it in termsof just that bad raffle, I mean
that is powerful.
So I appreciate you sharing.
When you were talking, Iimmediately thought about my
professor in college, who's anEnglish professor, and the man.
(50:42):
The professor lived in Auburn,alabama.
My school was in Tuskegee,alabama.
It's about 15 miles fromTuskegee to Auburn.
He rode his bike to school andback home every day.
It's how he got to school.
He was vegan.
He was always doing somethingjust healthy for himself.
(51:06):
He didn't do like cars becausehe didn't like toxins and
pollutants and like all of thatkind of thing.
And still, at 51, he had amassive heart attack and died.
And you would think, wow, youknow, I've done all of these
things to eliminate my badraffle tickets and still you get
(51:26):
tickets in this raffle.
And your analogy just reallyput it into perspective for me,
because you think I'm doingeverything right.
You said, if I do this, if I dothis and if I do that, it won't
happen to me.
And that's not what we'resaying.
We're saying you're going totake some of your tickets away.
You still may win the raffle.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yeah, exactly, and you know some people may say,
well, if it might happen to me,anyway, you know why bother
trying to pull any tickets out?
Well, the thing is like thinkabout his quality of life up
until 51.
It sounds like it was prettygood, amazing.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Amazing and he got to enjoy and do as much things,
and be it.
It was sudden, it was instant.
He didn't die a miserable death, he wasn't wearing the pins or
anything like that, he was fullyfunctioning.
So it happens, andunfortunately, death is not
something that we can avoid.
But if it's something that wecan do on our own terms and a
(52:28):
positive place, without pain andsuffering or being losing our
dignity or our finances, right,you still have that nest egg
that you can leave for the lovedones that you have.
Those are good wins.
Those are called good ways todie.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, right, I mean, it's life.
No one gets out alive, right?
That's the nature.
Yeah, that's how it is With ourcharity.
Our goal is for you to die fromsomething else.
Don't die from breast cancer.
Let's do what we can to takethat off your list of like.
This is what killed me, right?
(53:09):
So live as long, happy,positive, wonderful life as
possible.
That's our goal, and you knowwe can do that through early
detection.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Thank you so much for sharing.
I want to be respectful of yourtime.
I could go on and on.
I know I still have likeanother.
This is great.
Have another like a battery ofquestions.
So we'll have to do this again.
Post my mammogram and we'lltalk about the excitement of
that first mammogram and thatkind of thing.
That'd be great.
I want to thank you humbly forjoining us.
(53:44):
It's been very enlightening andinformative, encouraging, and I
know you've got a world to saveright, so I'm going to let you
go.
As we wrap up this enlighteningdiscussion on genetics and
breast cancer awareness with DrCorinne Ellsworth Beaumont, ceo
(54:04):
of Know your Limons, we extendour heartfelt thanks to each of
you for tuning in.
Remember, knowledge is powerand understanding the genetic
aspects of breast cancer canmake a significant impact on
early detection and prevention.
This is how we save lives.
(54:25):
Stay informed, stay proactiveand join us on the journey to
better health.
Thank you for being a part ofthe demystifying DNA and Know
your Limons collaboration.
I want to encourage each of mylisteners.
I've never asked you foranything.
Go to knowyourlimonsorg,download the app, become
(54:49):
familiar and partner with thisamazing organization.
Thank you all and be well untilnext time.
Thanks, tiffany, thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
P23 Knowledge, Access , Power.
P23 Wellness and Understandingat your Fingertips.
P23 that's no Cap.
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