January 24, 2024 • 42 mins
Discover the intricate dance of genes and CRISPR with Tak Williams as he joins me, Dr. Tiffany Montgomery, on an enlightening journey through the genetic landscape. Unlock the secrets of DNA and how it influences everything from your health to the stock market. Prepare to shatter myths and fortify your understanding of personalized medicine and species conservation, all while indulging in the excitement of scientific discovery.
Venture through the annals of genetic milestones from the revelatory work of Oswald Avery. As we weave through history, the evolution of genetics unfolds, revealing its mighty hand in fields as diverse as agriculture and forensic science. Our discussions illuminate the powerful language of genes, their undeniable role in shaping our world, and the financial implications that come with these scientific breakthroughs. With each stride in genetic research, we step closer to a future where medicine is tailored to our unique genetic fabric.
Finally, we grapple with the ethical conundrums that CRISPR-Cas9 presents, reflecting on the power and responsibility inherent in this ground-breaking technology. We honor the wisdom imparted on my first day at Tuskegee University, drawing parallels to our capacity for greatness and the importance of stewarding genetic advancements conscientiously. As we conclude, we inspire you to take control of your health journey, recognizing that knowledge of one's genetic makeup is a powerful ally in charting a course toward wellness.
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Episode Transcript
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P23 Theme (00:00):
P23 Knowledge, access , power.
P23, wellness and Understandingat your Fingertips P23.
And that's no Cap.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (00:21):
Welcome to this week's episode of
Demystifying DNA Genes and youwhat does all of this mean to me
and why is it important?
I'm your host, Dr.
Tiffany Montgomery, founder andCEO of P23 Health, mom,
daughter, sister, friend andwife to a very amazing husband
(00:47):
Joining me today.
We have a new co-host for youall, a gentleman that you've yet
to meet on this podcast.
However, he also has his ownpodcast, Hip Hop 50, Mr.
TAK Williams.
He is a computer expert andwizard.
(01:10):
He is highly skilled in peopleinterpersonal relationships.
He is keen on stock and moneyand investments.
He is a mentor, he is a fatherto five amazing girls, he is a
brother, he is a friend and heis an all around great person to
(01:35):
know.
He brings a vast amount ofwisdom just in life and in
learning, and he pops that inwith an amazing personality that
just stays fresh.
We are so honored tonight tohave joining us on our podcast,
Tak Williams.
Welcome, Tak.
Tak Williams (01:55):
Good evening.
I want to say thank you and Iappreciate you guys having me on
your platform, on your podcastthis evening.
I was actually turning my headaround looking for the guy that
you were talking about.
I mean such an amazing intro.
I just want to say thank youand I want all the listeners to
(02:18):
know that intro was notsponsored.
That was organic.
So I just want to say thank youagain, Dr.
Montgomery, I appreciate you.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (02:27):
Well, you're very welcome and you can
also take this opportunity tocorrect me if I got anything
wrong.
So we know the guy, thank you.
And thank you for confirmingthat you know him as well.
Tak is such an amazing person,so thank you for being so humble
.
This episode uncovers thesignificance of understanding
our genetic makeup andinterpreting our DNA.
(02:49):
With the surge of direct toconsumer genetic testing, it's
important to comprehend what thedata means to you personally
and why it matters to yourhealth.
Join us as we decipher thelanguage of genes and their
impact on our lives.
So we're going to have just theeveryday conversation with the
(03:10):
everyday person, and I'm hopingthat you all can relate, you can
identify, you can engage andyou can fall in love with this
thing called science, like Ihave.
So, Tak, I'm going to open itup.
I want you to just talk to me.
Do you have any questionsbefore we jump into our subject?
Tak Williams (03:29):
I think I wanted to talk about or just mention to
you that this idea, or thediscussion about genes, the
genetic makeup and we as humanbeings are understanding of it,
is one that kind of excites me,while at the same time I've
(03:49):
recognized, as grown as I am,how ill informed I might be.
I think at a certain point inmy life I just took what I
thought I understood and I justsaid, ok, I'll go with it from
there.
But here of late I've beenhearing some really exciting
things in terms of what's beenbrought in by the scientific
(04:12):
community, as it will, you know,in turn, improve health care
for everybody, address maybesome different diseases from a
preventive method and actuallyhave other use cases when it
comes to agriculture, theenvironment, just humanity as a
whole.
So that is kind of excited me,because I'm in that space of
(04:34):
maybe investing, doing someswing trading and some of these
bio farm pharmaceuticalcompanies and biomedical
companies.
They come up a lot and a lot oftimes I will not engage or take
a position because I reallydon't have a lot of background
in that and I've just beenpiecing it together.
(04:54):
That's why I was excited toactually come on your platform,
because I said, ok, this willgive me you know, will reset my
foundation or basis ofunderstanding.
It will probably wipe out a lotof my stereotypes or
generalities that I've beencarrying and it will get me more
informed.
Therefore, I could make abetter decision when it comes to
(05:18):
, you know, position in my moneyor trying to generate, generate
wealth from those opportunities.
Not to say that you know, putaside the importance of this,
but I'm just letting you knowwhat caught my excitement about
it, and especially being on yourshow this evening.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (05:36):
Hey, that's excellent to share.
And whatever brought you here?
Trust me, I'm happy to have youbecause I love to talk about
science and I love for people torelate right and understand
that importance and why itmatters.
You know, I always say this.
I find myself saying that Idon't want to sound old, but
when I was younger, or like thelike the older people say back
(05:59):
in my day, I would find theimportance of math and you would
always hear your parents talkabout math and your teachers
talk about math and they wouldsay math is a field that
translates into every area ofyour life, right?
Whatever it is that you want todo, you're going to have to
understand math.
(06:20):
Now, as we are evolving as aculture, as a society, as we
come into this new age ofawareness or wokeness or truth,
we are finding that science isjust as important.
Genetics are the buildingblocks of who we are.
It's how traits,characteristics and information
(06:43):
is passed down from onegeneration to the next.
So it's crucial.
Genetics is one of the thingsthat have remained true, right?
Sometimes we can change afamily story.
We can go three or fourgenerations and Granddaddy who
was a farmer now becomes thefirst attorney in the family.
(07:04):
Right, you can kind of put yourspin on what is your version of
the truth, but genetics has noperception.
It is something that hasremained unmanipulated for
centuries.
We'll talk about it a littlebit later, because now we are
entering an age wheremanipulation is happening, but
(07:27):
up until 2020, it was somethingthat was maintained.
It was held dear that geneticsis crucial to understanding
inheritance of traits, becausethey're like instruction codes
for our body and they're passeddown from your parents and their
parents.
They determine our physical andbehavioral traits, our eye
(07:50):
color, our height, even whetherwe're good at certain things.
Genetics is helping usunderstand diseases because it
plays such a significant role inpreventing diseases.
Some health conditions arecaused or influenced by our
genes.
Our susceptibility toinfectious disease is determined
by our genes.
By studying genetics,scientists can learn the cause
(08:13):
of the diseases and develop waysto prevent or treat them.
As we delve into genetics, it'sbecoming more important and
leading innovation in medicalresearch and treatment.
Genetics have become essentialin medical research and
scientists are using the geneticinformation to develop new
(08:34):
treatments and medication.
Personalized medicine, wheretreatments are tailored to an
individual's genetic makeup, andthat is becoming more common
and effective.
Evolutionary studies, where welook at how a species is
evolving over time and look atthat relationship between
different organisms to see howthey've adapted or evolved.
(08:57):
Agriculture In agriculture,genetics is used to improve
crops and livestock.
Scientists can select a breedof plants or animals and even
give them desirable traits, suchas resistance to disease or
better productivity, improvingfood production.
We call it GMO geneticallymodified or genetically modified
(09:20):
optimizations to our foods.
Forensic science Genetics iscrucial in forensic science for
solving crimes.
Dna analysis can be used toidentify individuals who have
established relationships likepaternity or even sibling
relationships, provide importantevidence in criminal
(09:41):
investigations and even helpwith discovering or tracing your
ancestry.
Reproductive health Genetics isimportant to reproductive health
and understand the geneticfactors, help us in diagnosing
and addressing fertility issues,preventing genetic disorders
(10:01):
and newborns, and providinggenetic counseling to
prospective parents.
It's also in the field ofgenetic becoming important to
help us with conservation, wherein conservation we are trying
to conserve endangered species.
So in this instance, geneticsis used to assess genetic
(10:24):
diversity and develop strategiesto ensure the survival of these
species.
Genetics is important becauseit helps us understand the
fundamental building blocks oflife, how traits are inherited
and how this information can beapplied to various fields such
(10:44):
as medicine, agriculture,conservation and money, stock
market, everything.
When you're understanding wherewe're going and the tools that
we're using to get there, itmakes a whole new world or gives
you a whole new perspective ofhow to analyze and assess things
(11:05):
.
Tak Williams (11:06):
So, Dr Montgomery with genes, just for the person
listening in, yeah, they mightbe adults, because I think the
younger generations, if theywant to be more in tune, they
probably are because of theresources and everything that's
available to them.
But for a person that's beenaround for 40 to 70 years, 40 to
(11:28):
80 years, what was explained tothem in terms of genetic
makeups, the breakdown of thecold, as they used to say, that
little strange looking helixform or whatever?
That is what has changed, whatis like some of the significant
differences in terms of research, what has been bought the light
(11:49):
and proven and studied upon.
That gives us a different senseof what we may have been taught
about genes then and now, ifyou go back a couple generations
.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (12:02):
So we didn't know why right, we didn't
have quite a name for it butthe thought of origin and this
conservation and understandingthings being passed down from
generation to generation got onour scientific radar in the
1800s, late 1800s, around 1859,right.
(12:25):
And then in the 1900s there wasa push for the eugenics
movement and that kind of led usdown the road or the pathway
with Mendo to start thinkingabout how Darwin's theories
really translated, how we couldprove them, how does evolution
(12:45):
work?
What can we do to establishthose relationships?
Then, about 1944, Oswald Averyidentified DNA as a transforming
principle, and it wasn't until44 that DNA was identified as
such.
We fast forward, and I'mexplaining this because when
(13:08):
you're talking about somebody 80years old, you're talking about
1940s.
Ok, we have a lot of peoplebecause people are living longer
who have watched this wholeprocess of DNA from where we are
now to where they started, goand really grow over the past 80
years.
In 1952, Rosalind Franklin wasthe first scientist London born
(13:35):
who was able to actuallyphotograph the crystallized DNA
fibers.
She used beautiful x-rays.
Now, she did not know thatthose x-rays were carcinogenic
or that they would cause cancerand ultimately she did so many
x-rays she did develop cancerand she did pass, but her name
(13:58):
lives on.
In 1953, Watson and Crickpicked up and were cloned at the
fathers of discovering thisdouble helix structure.
But it was for the work and thesacrifice of Rosalind Franklin.
We move forward from 53, whichwas very, very exciting, All the
(14:20):
way to 77, where Sangerdeveloped sequencing this DNA.
Then in 1983, Huntington'sdisease is mad and we started
thinking about as a scientificcommunity how this can translate
to other diseases, how we canreally delve into this thing
called DNA.
(14:41):
So in 1990, the Human GenomeProject begins and we began
sequencing viruses, bacteria.
It was like the birth of DNA.
It was a time of awakening andexcitement.
Then in 1996, using all ofthese principles, Dolly a sheep
(15:05):
is cloned.
It was the first known cloning.
It was as big as AI is for usnow.
Right, Everybody's talkingabout AI, but I remember when
people didn't even have cellphones.
And now you have a cell phonethat can talk, that can help you
with appointments.
That is really a very strongform of artificial intelligence
(15:27):
and who knows over the next 40years where that's gonna go?
The same principles apply orthe same awe comes with
technology.
As we look at where we are withDNA, Fast forwarding to 1999,
the first human chromosome wasdecoded.
(15:47):
As we move forward, 2003, thathuman genome project was
completed and once this happens,we began to really further the
breakthroughs in science.
By 2014, we had already startedwith looking at different
(16:11):
organisms, looking at expandingartificial genetic code, looking
at translating these thingsfrom the research environment
into the clinical lab where wecould detect viruses, fungi,
bacteria, microorganisms andgeneral infectious disease by
(16:32):
using these molecular methods orthese DNA RNA-based methods for
detection.
So if you look at a personwho's in their 40th to 80th
years of life, you're looking atsomebody who's lived that
entire journey of furtheringscience.
(16:54):
And looking at each decade, usas a civilization push the
envelope further and further.
We constantly challenge what wecan do, what we can ask DNA and
what it means.
Now we're at the point wherewe're looking at different SNPs
or segments of a gene and we'reable to identify certain
(17:18):
mutations on chromosomes,certain things that make us
prone to genetic diseases.
And I hate to say it, Tak thisis only the beginning.
It's so much that we don't knowthe code for yet.
We don't know how thatinteraction is with another gene
.
We don't understand yet, otherthan just saying it's
(17:41):
environmental.
What are the specificepigenetic factors that will
turn something on or off?
My guess is in the next 10 or15 years we're going to start
answering even those questions.
Tak Williams (17:55):
Hence I want to go right into CRISPR, cast 9.
The FDA late or early part ofDecember 2023, actually approved
clinical trials for the companyCRISPR.
Crispr am I pronouncing itright?
Cast 9?
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (18:17):
It's not a company, it's a technology.
Tak Williams (18:19):
It's a technology, okay.
So the US Food and DrugAdministration approved two
milestone treatments by thiscompany and basically they're
able to do what in layman termsis called genetic editing.
And I mean they're even usingterms like cutting, pacing, snip
(18:41):
, like scissors and like somereal live, easy to understand
concepts.
They're using terms like thisis a tool, and the idea of that
language being used, how it'sbeing presented, how it's being
communicated, does so much forlike people like me and others
(19:03):
in society, because a lot oftimes we don't even understand.
Should we even get excitedabout technologies and just
things on the frontiers ofhealth and genetics and whatever
that is?
Because we're disconnected fromthe language, we don't
understand what's being said,but as it was presented, whether
(19:25):
it be in TED Talks or CNBC,where I quoted that, and other
venues and platforms, they'resaying that CRISPR-Cas9 is a
tool that can be used toactually go in and with the
combination of the DNA, the RNA,whatever it is, it snips it out
(19:46):
, it matches the code and thenit can do translation and other
things and actually rid the cellof that genetic deformity.
And I was actually looking at aCNN report based on some of the
information you had sent me andthey was talking about this
(20:07):
young man.
He's not even 18.
I think he's 13 or 12 orsomething like that.
His parents allowed him toparticipate in one of the trials
because he suffered so muchfrom sicker cell.
Now, as an African-American andpart Japanese, we have to be
very clear that in this countryof the United States,
(20:30):
african-americans arepredominantly the people or the
race that suffer from sickercell.
No cure for that at this point.
This young man participated inthat group, that trial, and he
has not had a sicker cell crisis, as they refer to it, in almost
two years.
(20:50):
In fact, they said, out of the30 people that participated in
the trial, 28 of them have nothad a recurrence of any sicker
cell related crisis for maybe upto 18 months or so.
So this is like, right outfront.
People know what sicker cell is, the language being used in our
(21:11):
face and that's why I'm sayingI think that this is wonderful.
So when you talk about, you knowthere's decoding and there's
things to come and there's somuch potential here.
I get it, because theiremphasis is on genetic
deformities.
What is it?
Huntington's disease, you know,like, like.
(21:31):
What is that?
Muscular dystrophy?
What is that sicker cell.
What is that?
Cystic fibrosis, right, and wecan go on.
There's like the five usualsuspects, right, and you can
name these and they say, oh well, it's in the gene and they can
inform you, but it's not much tobe done.
So the idea that CRISPR which Idon't even want to get into
(21:54):
what it stands for because weknow it's an acronym for
something it actually goes in,locates it, identifies it and
snips it out between the DNA andthe RNA, I think that that is
just crazy cool.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (22:11):
So you unpacked a lot.
I think you were the sciencesand I felt like I was a student
For a second there.
It's a lot to take in on thenews.
You summed it up very well.
I'm going to go back over acouple of points, not because
you didn't do an excellent job,but just because I want to get
our readers up to speed.
Maybe they missed the FDAannouncement right About the
(22:35):
first gene therapy to beapproved.
So we're going to kind of talkabout this a little bit.
Crispr-cas9 stands for clustered, regularly interspersed, short
palindromic repeats andCRISPR-associated protein 9.
(22:56):
All right, let's break downwhat each part of that means.
So our clustered, regularlyinterspersed, short palindromic
repeats are specific DNAsequences found in the genomes
of bacteria and othermicroorganisms.
They contain short, partiallypalindromic repeated sequences
(23:22):
that are interspaced with uniqueDNA sequences.
Crispr was initially discoveredas a part of the bacterial
immune system, where it helpsbacteria defend against evading
viruses by storing a memory ofthe virus's genetic code.
Cas9, or CRISPR-associatedprotein 9, is an enzyme that
(23:48):
plays a crucial role in theCasper gene editing system.
It acts like a pair ofmolecular scissors capable of
cutting DNA at specificlocations by guiding Cas9 to a
precise spot on the DNA.
Using a molecule called RNA,which is designed to match that
(24:09):
targeted DNA sequence,scientists can make precise
changes to the genetic code.
In simpler terms, crispr-cas9is a revolutionary gene editing
technology that allowsscientists to modify and edit
genes in a precise, targetedmanner.
It has enormous potential forvarious applications, from
(24:32):
treating genetic disorders tocreating genetically modified
organisms for agriculturalresearch purposes.
Now Dr Montgomery said a lot ofwords and I want to just
understand this.
So I'm going to back it up, andI want you to imagine again
that your body is like a biginstruction book, and this book
(24:56):
tells your cells how to buildand how to grow.
We all know, if we've everwritten a paper or anything, you
can make a mistake right.
So in this book, sometimesthere are typos or mistakes that
can cause problems.
Gene editing is like using aspecial tool we talked about the
(25:17):
scissors to fix those mistakesin the instructions.
You could think about it asscissors, as whiteout, anything
that you would use to fix amistake when you're typing.
Now where we are, our scientificcommunity has found a way to go
(25:37):
inside these tiny buildingblocks of life called genes and
make changes to them.
It's like fixing a sentence ina storybook to make sure it
makes sense.
This helps make sure our bodieswork the way they should and
can even prevent some illnesses.
(25:57):
In the cases of sickle cell, weare now trying to see if it can
eliminate illnesses even afterthat gene has been activated or
turned on, just like a superherowith the superpower to fix
things.
Gene editing is like a supertool for fixing these mistakes
(26:20):
in our instructions, so ourbodies can be healthier.
As a scientific community, Ihave to be honest, we're still
learning a lot about it, butit's super exciting and it's an
important adventure in the worldof science.
Now, with that said, the firstFDA approved treatment has been
(26:45):
released for the treatment ofsickle cell which, as you
mentioned, is a predominantlyblack disease.
It affects predominantlymelanated people of color, not
just in the US, worldwide,especially prevalent in Africa
(27:08):
where the only protective factorfor it is malaria.
With that said, I know youmentioned that you were part
African American, part Japanese.
I am one part, I am all partfoundational black American from
(27:28):
the United States.
My ancestors came over and wereslaves in Mississippi and
Arkansas.
I understand the effects ofsickle cell In fact I am a
graduate Tak of TuskegeeUniversity and I'm not sure if
(27:53):
you are familiar, but there wasa Tuskegee syphilis experiment
that took place there.
Tak Williams (27:57):
Absolutely.
I am familiar with it.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (28:00):
In 2003 or 2004,.
President Bill Clinton did anapology for the syphilis
experiment in Tuskegee andfounded the first center of
bioethics in Tuskegee, Alabama.
Coming from that community,being a part of that community,
(28:24):
working part of my I led theScientific Honor Society and
every year the president got topick the community service
project that we did.
I don't have sickle cell myself, but I chose for us to
volunteer with the SoutheastAlabama Sickle Cell Association
At a time where the state wasdoing very bad.
(28:46):
Budgets were cut and that wasone of the first budgets that
were cut.
So I feel very dear not only tothe black community, not only
to sickle cell, but to mycommitment to bioethics and
responsible research, informedconsent and helping people be
health literate enough tounderstand what is happening to
(29:11):
them and why, what they'reagreeing to, what are they
consenting to.
I think that gene editing isphenomenal in its potential
impact.
It's a process of altering andmodifying specific genes.
It can be used to enhancedesirable traits or remove
(29:33):
undesirable traits, Removeundesirable diseases.
It's a technology such asCRISPR-Cas9 that has and will
continue to revolutionize thefield of biotechnology, Opening
up new possibilities formedicine, agriculture,
bioengineering.
However, gene editing is goingto raise some ethical, social,
(29:57):
legal and safety issues.
It has to be regulated andpracticed responsibly.
And it's got morality ties toit, because you're modifying
living beings.
As I stated earlier, we don'tunderstand the full code yet.
So just because we're making achange, Does that change impact
(30:23):
anything else?
Or what else?
Because science has taught us,and we've accepted the law, that
for every action there's anequal and opposite reaction.
So for me, while I'm excitedabout it, my moral compass and
my ethics has questions.
(30:43):
I have doubts, I have concerns,and I have to be true and
honest when I say my firstquestion is why would the first
approved CRISPR technology befor sickle cell disease?
Why?
Tak Williams (31:04):
Yeah, I understand that.
I think that that is a questionthat should get a lot of
response and concern and focus,that should be thought through
through communities, whether itbe the medical community, the
legal community, I meanthroughout.
(31:24):
I think that conversations havealready taken place that this
might be the sequel to otherstudies, such as the Tuskegee
study that was conducted andimposed on African Americans,
american Black people in thiscountry, and how deliberate and
(31:47):
intentional that was, and we canjust go on from there.
So I definitely hear you andrespect that position or that
insight, because that's worthyand it commands that thought.
There's nothing out there aboutthat.
There's nothing extreme aboutit.
Anyone who's read anything orpaid attention to the body of
(32:13):
work that this country has inhealthcare, in science, and who
they decide to run theseexperiments on, would find that
a very reasonable question formany to answer, and it should be
answered.
I do want to mention that withanything there is the good, the
(32:39):
bad and sometimes the ugly, andso I can appreciate you
mentioning about the excitementor maybe the pause or lack
thereof.
To some extent, the good ofthis, with CRISPR as a tool, is
things like treatment of geneticdiseases, cancer research and
(32:59):
therapy, hiv age treatment,different things like that,
prevention of infectiousdiseases.
But I would like to mention aname that speaks to maybe not
the good, but possibly the badand the ugly which ties directly
in with the ethics that youbrought up, and that would be
(33:20):
Harshaa Kwi.
Now, Harshaa Kwi was abiochemist.
He wasn't a geneticist.
That he wasn't.
He wasn't that core group ofpeople who worked on and
developed the CRISPR-Cas9.
He didn't hold that title.
He didn't look like them onpaper.
(33:41):
He was a biochemist and he, in2018, worked secretly and
basically edited the genestructures of two Chinese, or a
set of Chinese, twins.
And then he came out and toldeverybody Now, while he was
working on that project,secretly, moving around
(34:04):
throughout the medical and thehealth field and the science
field, and he was picking peopleand toying with the idea and
the whole time he was alreadyworking on it and then the twins
were born healthy.
He says he did it because theirfather was HIV positive and
(34:25):
what he identified usingCRISPR-Cas9 was there's a gene
or part of the gene called CCR5,however, it's labeled right and
that has directly or hassomething to do directly with
how HIV affects us.
So he basically said, hey,there's no cure for HIV.
(34:47):
This is 2018.
There's no cure for it.
But I can edit the genes withthe Casper-Cas9 and make it
resistant to the HIV.
And he did that, put it backinto the mother and she had the
twins and they're healthy.
They didn't take on anythingthat looked like they'd been
(35:10):
affected by the HIV that theirdad has.
Now this is China right, so youknow they can get down a little
different every now and then.
In 2019, they sent them to jailfor three years because it
became an ethics.
It comes out now that thisCRISPR-Cas9 system is built and
(35:35):
structured such that you don'thave to be a geneticist.
You don't even have to havethat level of acumen and talent.
You can be somebody that knowsenough.
In fact, they sell CRISPR-Caskits on Amazon.
Now you can't work with thehuman genome through that, but
some plants and other things youcan just buy it off of Amazon.
(35:57):
So I definitely hear you and Ithink that's something that's in
the arena, basically thatdomain that's being talked about
now.
Where does the ethics lie?
How do we measure or how do wedecide, or who even decides
where the good, the bad andpotentially the ugly lies?
(36:19):
That's just a great point.
That's just something that wehave to.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (36:27):
I think that you hit the nail on the
head and summed it up verynicely.
There are going to be athousand reasons that we ask why
Having that knowledge helps youanswer that question.
It's not only important to askwhy, but why not?
(36:48):
Having open discussions likethis increases our understanding
, breaking science down in a waythat we can really become
involved in those discussionsand share our thoughts, not from
an emotional manner, but from acalm, well-rounded.
(37:08):
What is the impact?
I hope this podcast challengesyou to think critically, to go
above and beyond even what youever thought you were capable of
.
Having this conversation withTak has reminded me of my very
first day at Tuskegee University.
(37:30):
One of my very favoriteprofessors, professor Emeritus,
was a student of Dr GeorgeWashington Carver.
He was an older man, maybeabout 90.in his 90s we won't put
(37:51):
an additional number.
He walked into freshman biologyclass just as meek and calm as
you can imagine.
Slow, very well-collected stackof books, and the very first
words he said to us are going tobe the words that I leave you
with.
(38:12):
This is also the first thingthat I taught my children.
It is a poem.
The poem is titled Equipment byEdgar A Guest.
Figure it out for yourself, mylad.
You've all the greatest of menhave had To arms, to hands, to
(38:37):
legs, to eyes and a brain to use.
If you would be wise, with thisequipment.
They all began.
So start from the top and say Ican Look them over, the wise
and the great.
They take their food from acommon plate and similar knives
(39:00):
and forks they use.
With similar laces they tietheir shoes.
The world considers them braveand smart, but you have all they
had when they made their start.
You can triumph and come toskill.
You can be great, if only youwill.
You're well equipped for thefight you choose.
(39:23):
You have legs and arms and abrain to use, and the man who
has risen great deeds to dobegan his life with no more than
you.
You are the handicap you mustface.
You are the one who must chooseyour place.
You must say where you wanna go, how much you will study the
(39:49):
truth to know.
God has equipped you for life,but he lets you decide what you
want to be.
Courage must come from the soulwithin.
The man must furnish the willto win.
So figure it out for yourself,my lad.
You were born with all that thegreat have had With your
(40:14):
equipment.
They all began Get ahold ofyourself and say I can?
We've reached the end ofanother engaging episode of
Demystifying DNA.
A big thank you foraccompanying us on this
exploration of genetics and itsrelevance to us At P23 Health,
(40:40):
we believe in the importance ofunderstanding your genes for
better health outcomes.
We're committed to providing youwith direct-to-consumer genetic
tests that offer meaningful andactionable insights.
Our aim is to empower you withthe knowledge you need to make
informed health decisions rightfrom the comfort of your home.
(41:00):
It's crucial to remember thatthe knowledge about your genes
is the first step towards takingcontrol of your health.
We encourage you to stayinquisitive and vigilant about
your health journey.
To learn more about how P23Health can assist you, please
visit our website at p23health.
com for comprehensiveinformation on our testing
(41:25):
options.
Thank you once again for tuningin.
I'm your host scientist,epidemiologist and just that
curious lady, dr TiffanyMontgomery, along with my
co-host today, Tak Williams,saying goodbye from Demystifying
DNA.
Continue exploring, stayinginformed and take charge of your
(41:48):
health journey, one gene at atime, and remember we are with
you every step of the way.
Until next time, be well.
P23 Knowledge, access , power.
P23, wellness and Understandingat your Fingertips P23.
And that's no Cap.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (00:21):
Welcome to this week's episode of
Demystifying DNA Genes and youwhat does all of this mean to me
and why is it important?
I'm your host, Dr.
Tiffany Montgomery, founder andCEO of P23 Health, mom,
daughter, sister, friend andwife to a very amazing husband
(00:47):
Joining me today.
We have a new co-host for youall, a gentleman that you've yet
to meet on this podcast.
However, he also has his ownpodcast, Hip Hop 50, Mr.
TAK Williams.
He is a computer expert andwizard.
(01:10):
He is highly skilled in peopleinterpersonal relationships.
He is keen on stock and moneyand investments.
He is a mentor, he is a fatherto five amazing girls, he is a
brother, he is a friend and heis an all around great person to
(01:35):
know.
He brings a vast amount ofwisdom just in life and in
learning, and he pops that inwith an amazing personality that
just stays fresh.
We are so honored tonight tohave joining us on our podcast,
Tak Williams.
Welcome, Tak.
Tak Williams (01:55):
Good evening.
I want to say thank you and Iappreciate you guys having me on
your platform, on your podcastthis evening.
I was actually turning my headaround looking for the guy that
you were talking about.
I mean such an amazing intro.
I just want to say thank youand I want all the listeners to
(02:18):
know that intro was notsponsored.
That was organic.
So I just want to say thank youagain, Dr.
Montgomery, I appreciate you.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (02:27):
Well, you're very welcome and you can
also take this opportunity tocorrect me if I got anything
wrong.
So we know the guy, thank you.
And thank you for confirmingthat you know him as well.
Tak is such an amazing person,so thank you for being so humble
.
This episode uncovers thesignificance of understanding
our genetic makeup andinterpreting our DNA.
(02:49):
With the surge of direct toconsumer genetic testing, it's
important to comprehend what thedata means to you personally
and why it matters to yourhealth.
Join us as we decipher thelanguage of genes and their
impact on our lives.
So we're going to have just theeveryday conversation with the
(03:10):
everyday person, and I'm hopingthat you all can relate, you can
identify, you can engage andyou can fall in love with this
thing called science, like Ihave.
So, Tak, I'm going to open itup.
I want you to just talk to me.
Do you have any questionsbefore we jump into our subject?
Tak Williams (03:29):
I think I wanted to talk about or just mention to
you that this idea, or thediscussion about genes, the
genetic makeup and we as humanbeings are understanding of it,
is one that kind of excites me,while at the same time I've
(03:49):
recognized, as grown as I am,how ill informed I might be.
I think at a certain point inmy life I just took what I
thought I understood and I justsaid, ok, I'll go with it from
there.
But here of late I've beenhearing some really exciting
things in terms of what's beenbrought in by the scientific
(04:12):
community, as it will, you know,in turn, improve health care
for everybody, address maybesome different diseases from a
preventive method and actuallyhave other use cases when it
comes to agriculture, theenvironment, just humanity as a
whole.
So that is kind of excited me,because I'm in that space of
(04:34):
maybe investing, doing someswing trading and some of these
bio farm pharmaceuticalcompanies and biomedical
companies.
They come up a lot and a lot oftimes I will not engage or take
a position because I reallydon't have a lot of background
in that and I've just beenpiecing it together.
(04:54):
That's why I was excited toactually come on your platform,
because I said, ok, this willgive me you know, will reset my
foundation or basis ofunderstanding.
It will probably wipe out a lotof my stereotypes or
generalities that I've beencarrying and it will get me more
informed.
Therefore, I could make abetter decision when it comes to
(05:18):
, you know, position in my moneyor trying to generate, generate
wealth from those opportunities.
Not to say that you know, putaside the importance of this,
but I'm just letting you knowwhat caught my excitement about
it, and especially being on yourshow this evening.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (05:36):
Hey, that's excellent to share.
And whatever brought you here?
Trust me, I'm happy to have youbecause I love to talk about
science and I love for people torelate right and understand
that importance and why itmatters.
You know, I always say this.
I find myself saying that Idon't want to sound old, but
when I was younger, or like thelike the older people say back
(05:59):
in my day, I would find theimportance of math and you would
always hear your parents talkabout math and your teachers
talk about math and they wouldsay math is a field that
translates into every area ofyour life, right?
Whatever it is that you want todo, you're going to have to
understand math.
(06:20):
Now, as we are evolving as aculture, as a society, as we
come into this new age ofawareness or wokeness or truth,
we are finding that science isjust as important.
Genetics are the buildingblocks of who we are.
It's how traits,characteristics and information
(06:43):
is passed down from onegeneration to the next.
So it's crucial.
Genetics is one of the thingsthat have remained true, right?
Sometimes we can change afamily story.
We can go three or fourgenerations and Granddaddy who
was a farmer now becomes thefirst attorney in the family.
(07:04):
Right, you can kind of put yourspin on what is your version of
the truth, but genetics has noperception.
It is something that hasremained unmanipulated for
centuries.
We'll talk about it a littlebit later, because now we are
entering an age wheremanipulation is happening, but
(07:27):
up until 2020, it was somethingthat was maintained.
It was held dear that geneticsis crucial to understanding
inheritance of traits, becausethey're like instruction codes
for our body and they're passeddown from your parents and their
parents.
They determine our physical andbehavioral traits, our eye
(07:50):
color, our height, even whetherwe're good at certain things.
Genetics is helping usunderstand diseases because it
plays such a significant role inpreventing diseases.
Some health conditions arecaused or influenced by our
genes.
Our susceptibility toinfectious disease is determined
by our genes.
By studying genetics,scientists can learn the cause
(08:13):
of the diseases and develop waysto prevent or treat them.
As we delve into genetics, it'sbecoming more important and
leading innovation in medicalresearch and treatment.
Genetics have become essentialin medical research and
scientists are using the geneticinformation to develop new
(08:34):
treatments and medication.
Personalized medicine, wheretreatments are tailored to an
individual's genetic makeup, andthat is becoming more common
and effective.
Evolutionary studies, where welook at how a species is
evolving over time and look atthat relationship between
different organisms to see howthey've adapted or evolved.
(08:57):
Agriculture In agriculture,genetics is used to improve
crops and livestock.
Scientists can select a breedof plants or animals and even
give them desirable traits, suchas resistance to disease or
better productivity, improvingfood production.
We call it GMO geneticallymodified or genetically modified
(09:20):
optimizations to our foods.
Forensic science Genetics iscrucial in forensic science for
solving crimes.
Dna analysis can be used toidentify individuals who have
established relationships likepaternity or even sibling
relationships, provide importantevidence in criminal
(09:41):
investigations and even helpwith discovering or tracing your
ancestry.
Reproductive health Genetics isimportant to reproductive health
and understand the geneticfactors, help us in diagnosing
and addressing fertility issues,preventing genetic disorders
(10:01):
and newborns, and providinggenetic counseling to
prospective parents.
It's also in the field ofgenetic becoming important to
help us with conservation, wherein conservation we are trying
to conserve endangered species.
So in this instance, geneticsis used to assess genetic
(10:24):
diversity and develop strategiesto ensure the survival of these
species.
Genetics is important becauseit helps us understand the
fundamental building blocks oflife, how traits are inherited
and how this information can beapplied to various fields such
(10:44):
as medicine, agriculture,conservation and money, stock
market, everything.
When you're understanding wherewe're going and the tools that
we're using to get there, itmakes a whole new world or gives
you a whole new perspective ofhow to analyze and assess things
(11:05):
.
Tak Williams (11:06):
So, Dr Montgomery with genes, just for the person
listening in, yeah, they mightbe adults, because I think the
younger generations, if theywant to be more in tune, they
probably are because of theresources and everything that's
available to them.
But for a person that's beenaround for 40 to 70 years, 40 to
(11:28):
80 years, what was explained tothem in terms of genetic
makeups, the breakdown of thecold, as they used to say, that
little strange looking helixform or whatever?
That is what has changed, whatis like some of the significant
differences in terms of research, what has been bought the light
(11:49):
and proven and studied upon.
That gives us a different senseof what we may have been taught
about genes then and now, ifyou go back a couple generations
.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (12:02):
So we didn't know why right, we didn't
have quite a name for it butthe thought of origin and this
conservation and understandingthings being passed down from
generation to generation got onour scientific radar in the
1800s, late 1800s, around 1859,right.
(12:25):
And then in the 1900s there wasa push for the eugenics
movement and that kind of led usdown the road or the pathway
with Mendo to start thinkingabout how Darwin's theories
really translated, how we couldprove them, how does evolution
(12:45):
work?
What can we do to establishthose relationships?
Then, about 1944, Oswald Averyidentified DNA as a transforming
principle, and it wasn't until44 that DNA was identified as
such.
We fast forward, and I'mexplaining this because when
(13:08):
you're talking about somebody 80years old, you're talking about
1940s.
Ok, we have a lot of peoplebecause people are living longer
who have watched this wholeprocess of DNA from where we are
now to where they started, goand really grow over the past 80
years.
In 1952, Rosalind Franklin wasthe first scientist London born
(13:35):
who was able to actuallyphotograph the crystallized DNA
fibers.
She used beautiful x-rays.
Now, she did not know thatthose x-rays were carcinogenic
or that they would cause cancerand ultimately she did so many
x-rays she did develop cancerand she did pass, but her name
(13:58):
lives on.
In 1953, Watson and Crickpicked up and were cloned at the
fathers of discovering thisdouble helix structure.
But it was for the work and thesacrifice of Rosalind Franklin.
We move forward from 53, whichwas very, very exciting, All the
(14:20):
way to 77, where Sangerdeveloped sequencing this DNA.
Then in 1983, Huntington'sdisease is mad and we started
thinking about as a scientificcommunity how this can translate
to other diseases, how we canreally delve into this thing
called DNA.
(14:41):
So in 1990, the Human GenomeProject begins and we began
sequencing viruses, bacteria.
It was like the birth of DNA.
It was a time of awakening andexcitement.
Then in 1996, using all ofthese principles, Dolly a sheep
(15:05):
is cloned.
It was the first known cloning.
It was as big as AI is for usnow.
Right, Everybody's talkingabout AI, but I remember when
people didn't even have cellphones.
And now you have a cell phonethat can talk, that can help you
with appointments.
That is really a very strongform of artificial intelligence
(15:27):
and who knows over the next 40years where that's gonna go?
The same principles apply orthe same awe comes with
technology.
As we look at where we are withDNA, Fast forwarding to 1999,
the first human chromosome wasdecoded.
(15:47):
As we move forward, 2003, thathuman genome project was
completed and once this happens,we began to really further the
breakthroughs in science.
By 2014, we had already startedwith looking at different
(16:11):
organisms, looking at expandingartificial genetic code, looking
at translating these thingsfrom the research environment
into the clinical lab where wecould detect viruses, fungi,
bacteria, microorganisms andgeneral infectious disease by
(16:32):
using these molecular methods orthese DNA RNA-based methods for
detection.
So if you look at a personwho's in their 40th to 80th
years of life, you're looking atsomebody who's lived that
entire journey of furtheringscience.
(16:54):
And looking at each decade, usas a civilization push the
envelope further and further.
We constantly challenge what wecan do, what we can ask DNA and
what it means.
Now we're at the point wherewe're looking at different SNPs
or segments of a gene and we'reable to identify certain
(17:18):
mutations on chromosomes,certain things that make us
prone to genetic diseases.
And I hate to say it, Tak thisis only the beginning.
It's so much that we don't knowthe code for yet.
We don't know how thatinteraction is with another gene
.
We don't understand yet, otherthan just saying it's
(17:41):
environmental.
What are the specificepigenetic factors that will
turn something on or off?
My guess is in the next 10 or15 years we're going to start
answering even those questions.
Tak Williams (17:55):
Hence I want to go right into CRISPR, cast 9.
The FDA late or early part ofDecember 2023, actually approved
clinical trials for the companyCRISPR.
Crispr am I pronouncing itright?
Cast 9?
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (18:17):
It's not a company, it's a technology.
Tak Williams (18:19):
It's a technology, okay.
So the US Food and DrugAdministration approved two
milestone treatments by thiscompany and basically they're
able to do what in layman termsis called genetic editing.
And I mean they're even usingterms like cutting, pacing, snip
(18:41):
, like scissors and like somereal live, easy to understand
concepts.
They're using terms like thisis a tool, and the idea of that
language being used, how it'sbeing presented, how it's being
communicated, does so much forlike people like me and others
(19:03):
in society, because a lot oftimes we don't even understand.
Should we even get excitedabout technologies and just
things on the frontiers ofhealth and genetics and whatever
that is?
Because we're disconnected fromthe language, we don't
understand what's being said,but as it was presented, whether
(19:25):
it be in TED Talks or CNBC,where I quoted that, and other
venues and platforms, they'resaying that CRISPR-Cas9 is a
tool that can be used toactually go in and with the
combination of the DNA, the RNA,whatever it is, it snips it out
(19:46):
, it matches the code and thenit can do translation and other
things and actually rid the cellof that genetic deformity.
And I was actually looking at aCNN report based on some of the
information you had sent me andthey was talking about this
(20:07):
young man.
He's not even 18.
I think he's 13 or 12 orsomething like that.
His parents allowed him toparticipate in one of the trials
because he suffered so muchfrom sicker cell.
Now, as an African-American andpart Japanese, we have to be
very clear that in this countryof the United States,
(20:30):
african-americans arepredominantly the people or the
race that suffer from sickercell.
No cure for that at this point.
This young man participated inthat group, that trial, and he
has not had a sicker cell crisis, as they refer to it, in almost
two years.
(20:50):
In fact, they said, out of the30 people that participated in
the trial, 28 of them have nothad a recurrence of any sicker
cell related crisis for maybe upto 18 months or so.
So this is like, right outfront.
People know what sicker cell is, the language being used in our
(21:11):
face and that's why I'm sayingI think that this is wonderful.
So when you talk about, you knowthere's decoding and there's
things to come and there's somuch potential here.
I get it, because theiremphasis is on genetic
deformities.
What is it?
Huntington's disease, you know,like, like.
(21:31):
What is that?
Muscular dystrophy?
What is that sicker cell.
What is that?
Cystic fibrosis, right, and wecan go on.
There's like the five usualsuspects, right, and you can
name these and they say, oh well, it's in the gene and they can
inform you, but it's not much tobe done.
So the idea that CRISPR which Idon't even want to get into
(21:54):
what it stands for because weknow it's an acronym for
something it actually goes in,locates it, identifies it and
snips it out between the DNA andthe RNA, I think that that is
just crazy cool.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (22:11):
So you unpacked a lot.
I think you were the sciencesand I felt like I was a student
For a second there.
It's a lot to take in on thenews.
You summed it up very well.
I'm going to go back over acouple of points, not because
you didn't do an excellent job,but just because I want to get
our readers up to speed.
Maybe they missed the FDAannouncement right About the
(22:35):
first gene therapy to beapproved.
So we're going to kind of talkabout this a little bit.
Crispr-cas9 stands for clustered, regularly interspersed, short
palindromic repeats andCRISPR-associated protein 9.
(22:56):
All right, let's break downwhat each part of that means.
So our clustered, regularlyinterspersed, short palindromic
repeats are specific DNAsequences found in the genomes
of bacteria and othermicroorganisms.
They contain short, partiallypalindromic repeated sequences
(23:22):
that are interspaced with uniqueDNA sequences.
Crispr was initially discoveredas a part of the bacterial
immune system, where it helpsbacteria defend against evading
viruses by storing a memory ofthe virus's genetic code.
Cas9, or CRISPR-associatedprotein 9, is an enzyme that
(23:48):
plays a crucial role in theCasper gene editing system.
It acts like a pair ofmolecular scissors capable of
cutting DNA at specificlocations by guiding Cas9 to a
precise spot on the DNA.
Using a molecule called RNA,which is designed to match that
(24:09):
targeted DNA sequence,scientists can make precise
changes to the genetic code.
In simpler terms, crispr-cas9is a revolutionary gene editing
technology that allowsscientists to modify and edit
genes in a precise, targetedmanner.
It has enormous potential forvarious applications, from
(24:32):
treating genetic disorders tocreating genetically modified
organisms for agriculturalresearch purposes.
Now Dr Montgomery said a lot ofwords and I want to just
understand this.
So I'm going to back it up, andI want you to imagine again
that your body is like a biginstruction book, and this book
(24:56):
tells your cells how to buildand how to grow.
We all know, if we've everwritten a paper or anything, you
can make a mistake right.
So in this book, sometimesthere are typos or mistakes that
can cause problems.
Gene editing is like using aspecial tool we talked about the
(25:17):
scissors to fix those mistakesin the instructions.
You could think about it asscissors, as whiteout, anything
that you would use to fix amistake when you're typing.
Now where we are, our scientificcommunity has found a way to go
(25:37):
inside these tiny buildingblocks of life called genes and
make changes to them.
It's like fixing a sentence ina storybook to make sure it
makes sense.
This helps make sure our bodieswork the way they should and
can even prevent some illnesses.
(25:57):
In the cases of sickle cell, weare now trying to see if it can
eliminate illnesses even afterthat gene has been activated or
turned on, just like a superherowith the superpower to fix
things.
Gene editing is like a supertool for fixing these mistakes
(26:20):
in our instructions, so ourbodies can be healthier.
As a scientific community, Ihave to be honest, we're still
learning a lot about it, butit's super exciting and it's an
important adventure in the worldof science.
Now, with that said, the firstFDA approved treatment has been
(26:45):
released for the treatment ofsickle cell which, as you
mentioned, is a predominantlyblack disease.
It affects predominantlymelanated people of color, not
just in the US, worldwide,especially prevalent in Africa
(27:08):
where the only protective factorfor it is malaria.
With that said, I know youmentioned that you were part
African American, part Japanese.
I am one part, I am all partfoundational black American from
(27:28):
the United States.
My ancestors came over and wereslaves in Mississippi and
Arkansas.
I understand the effects ofsickle cell In fact I am a
graduate Tak of TuskegeeUniversity and I'm not sure if
(27:53):
you are familiar, but there wasa Tuskegee syphilis experiment
that took place there.
Tak Williams (27:57):
Absolutely.
I am familiar with it.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (28:00):
In 2003 or 2004,.
President Bill Clinton did anapology for the syphilis
experiment in Tuskegee andfounded the first center of
bioethics in Tuskegee, Alabama.
Coming from that community,being a part of that community,
(28:24):
working part of my I led theScientific Honor Society and
every year the president got topick the community service
project that we did.
I don't have sickle cell myself, but I chose for us to
volunteer with the SoutheastAlabama Sickle Cell Association
At a time where the state wasdoing very bad.
(28:46):
Budgets were cut and that wasone of the first budgets that
were cut.
So I feel very dear not only tothe black community, not only
to sickle cell, but to mycommitment to bioethics and
responsible research, informedconsent and helping people be
health literate enough tounderstand what is happening to
(29:11):
them and why, what they'reagreeing to, what are they
consenting to.
I think that gene editing isphenomenal in its potential
impact.
It's a process of altering andmodifying specific genes.
It can be used to enhancedesirable traits or remove
(29:33):
undesirable traits, Removeundesirable diseases.
It's a technology such asCRISPR-Cas9 that has and will
continue to revolutionize thefield of biotechnology, Opening
up new possibilities formedicine, agriculture,
bioengineering.
However, gene editing is goingto raise some ethical, social,
(29:57):
legal and safety issues.
It has to be regulated andpracticed responsibly.
And it's got morality ties toit, because you're modifying
living beings.
As I stated earlier, we don'tunderstand the full code yet.
So just because we're making achange, Does that change impact
(30:23):
anything else?
Or what else?
Because science has taught us,and we've accepted the law, that
for every action there's anequal and opposite reaction.
So for me, while I'm excitedabout it, my moral compass and
my ethics has questions.
(30:43):
I have doubts, I have concerns,and I have to be true and
honest when I say my firstquestion is why would the first
approved CRISPR technology befor sickle cell disease?
Why?
Tak Williams (31:04):
Yeah, I understand that.
I think that that is a questionthat should get a lot of
response and concern and focus,that should be thought through
through communities, whether itbe the medical community, the
legal community, I meanthroughout.
(31:24):
I think that conversations havealready taken place that this
might be the sequel to otherstudies, such as the Tuskegee
study that was conducted andimposed on African Americans,
american Black people in thiscountry, and how deliberate and
(31:47):
intentional that was, and we canjust go on from there.
So I definitely hear you andrespect that position or that
insight, because that's worthyand it commands that thought.
There's nothing out there aboutthat.
There's nothing extreme aboutit.
Anyone who's read anything orpaid attention to the body of
(32:13):
work that this country has inhealthcare, in science, and who
they decide to run theseexperiments on, would find that
a very reasonable question formany to answer, and it should be
answered.
I do want to mention that withanything there is the good, the
(32:39):
bad and sometimes the ugly, andso I can appreciate you
mentioning about the excitementor maybe the pause or lack
thereof.
To some extent, the good ofthis, with CRISPR as a tool, is
things like treatment of geneticdiseases, cancer research and
(32:59):
therapy, hiv age treatment,different things like that,
prevention of infectiousdiseases.
But I would like to mention aname that speaks to maybe not
the good, but possibly the badand the ugly which ties directly
in with the ethics that youbrought up, and that would be
(33:20):
Harshaa Kwi.
Now, Harshaa Kwi was abiochemist.
He wasn't a geneticist.
That he wasn't.
He wasn't that core group ofpeople who worked on and
developed the CRISPR-Cas9.
He didn't hold that title.
He didn't look like them onpaper.
(33:41):
He was a biochemist and he, in2018, worked secretly and
basically edited the genestructures of two Chinese, or a
set of Chinese, twins.
And then he came out and toldeverybody Now, while he was
working on that project,secretly, moving around
(34:04):
throughout the medical and thehealth field and the science
field, and he was picking peopleand toying with the idea and
the whole time he was alreadyworking on it and then the twins
were born healthy.
He says he did it because theirfather was HIV positive and
(34:25):
what he identified usingCRISPR-Cas9 was there's a gene
or part of the gene called CCR5,however, it's labeled right and
that has directly or hassomething to do directly with
how HIV affects us.
So he basically said, hey,there's no cure for HIV.
(34:47):
This is 2018.
There's no cure for it.
But I can edit the genes withthe Casper-Cas9 and make it
resistant to the HIV.
And he did that, put it backinto the mother and she had the
twins and they're healthy.
They didn't take on anythingthat looked like they'd been
(35:10):
affected by the HIV that theirdad has.
Now this is China right, so youknow they can get down a little
different every now and then.
In 2019, they sent them to jailfor three years because it
became an ethics.
It comes out now that thisCRISPR-Cas9 system is built and
(35:35):
structured such that you don'thave to be a geneticist.
You don't even have to havethat level of acumen and talent.
You can be somebody that knowsenough.
In fact, they sell CRISPR-Caskits on Amazon.
Now you can't work with thehuman genome through that, but
some plants and other things youcan just buy it off of Amazon.
(35:57):
So I definitely hear you and Ithink that's something that's in
the arena, basically thatdomain that's being talked about
now.
Where does the ethics lie?
How do we measure or how do wedecide, or who even decides
where the good, the bad andpotentially the ugly lies?
(36:19):
That's just a great point.
That's just something that wehave to.
Dr. Tiffany Montgomery (36:27):
I think that you hit the nail on the
head and summed it up verynicely.
There are going to be athousand reasons that we ask why
Having that knowledge helps youanswer that question.
It's not only important to askwhy, but why not?
(36:48):
Having open discussions likethis increases our understanding
, breaking science down in a waythat we can really become
involved in those discussionsand share our thoughts, not from
an emotional manner, but from acalm, well-rounded.
(37:08):
What is the impact?
I hope this podcast challengesyou to think critically, to go
above and beyond even what youever thought you were capable of
.
Having this conversation withTak has reminded me of my very
first day at Tuskegee University.
(37:30):
One of my very favoriteprofessors, professor Emeritus,
was a student of Dr GeorgeWashington Carver.
He was an older man, maybeabout 90.in his 90s we won't put
(37:51):
an additional number.
He walked into freshman biologyclass just as meek and calm as
you can imagine.
Slow, very well-collected stackof books, and the very first
words he said to us are going tobe the words that I leave you
with.
(38:12):
This is also the first thingthat I taught my children.
It is a poem.
The poem is titled Equipment byEdgar A Guest.
Figure it out for yourself, mylad.
You've all the greatest of menhave had To arms, to hands, to
(38:37):
legs, to eyes and a brain to use.
If you would be wise, with thisequipment.
They all began.
So start from the top and say Ican Look them over, the wise
and the great.
They take their food from acommon plate and similar knives
(39:00):
and forks they use.
With similar laces they tietheir shoes.
The world considers them braveand smart, but you have all they
had when they made their start.
You can triumph and come toskill.
You can be great, if only youwill.
You're well equipped for thefight you choose.
(39:23):
You have legs and arms and abrain to use, and the man who
has risen great deeds to dobegan his life with no more than
you.
You are the handicap you mustface.
You are the one who must chooseyour place.
You must say where you wanna go, how much you will study the
(39:49):
truth to know.
God has equipped you for life,but he lets you decide what you
want to be.
Courage must come from the soulwithin.
The man must furnish the willto win.
So figure it out for yourself,my lad.
You were born with all that thegreat have had With your
(40:14):
equipment.
They all began Get ahold ofyourself and say I can?
We've reached the end ofanother engaging episode of
Demystifying DNA.
A big thank you foraccompanying us on this
exploration of genetics and itsrelevance to us At P23 Health,
(40:40):
we believe in the importance ofunderstanding your genes for
better health outcomes.
We're committed to providing youwith direct-to-consumer genetic
tests that offer meaningful andactionable insights.
Our aim is to empower you withthe knowledge you need to make
informed health decisions rightfrom the comfort of your home.
(41:00):
It's crucial to remember thatthe knowledge about your genes
is the first step towards takingcontrol of your health.
We encourage you to stayinquisitive and vigilant about
your health journey.
To learn more about how P23Health can assist you, please
visit our website at p23health.
com for comprehensiveinformation on our testing
(41:25):
options.
Thank you once again for tuningin.
I'm your host scientist,epidemiologist and just that
curious lady, dr TiffanyMontgomery, along with my
co-host today, Tak Williams,saying goodbye from Demystifying
DNA.
Continue exploring, stayinginformed and take charge of your
(41:48):
health journey, one gene at atime, and remember we are with
you every step of the way.
Until next time, be well.
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