Good, Better, Best: Value Engineering Your Dental Equipment

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast from Dentist to De novo.
I'm here today with Ben Oliver.
I would say the one and only BenOliver, but it's probably a
common name.
There's maybe more than one.
There's a lot, there'sdefinitely more than one
Jonathan Miller, but I'd love tofor people to say the one and
only Jonathan Miller.
Even better.
Now you've been in the equipmentgame for 14 years.
Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
14 years, yeah.
Um right out of college.
This is 2008 is when I actuallystarted.

SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
Don't have to age yourself, even though we were
just talking about birthdays.
Um but I appreciate you not onlytaking the time, um, but also
you were the first equipmentrep.
Well, not one of the first.
There's someone else I'mthinking of that also early on
had a different perspective onthe game that I noticed right
away.
And in general terms, what Iappreciated about it, and one of

(00:44):
the reasons why I wanted to haveyou on, is you've never changed
that filter.
No matter if you've changedequipment company or whatever
you've done in your career, yourlens and your approach has
always been the same.
And it's one that I've come toappreciate and respect because
to be honest with you, Ihesitated putting somebody on
the podcast about equipment.
Yeah.
And the reason why is because Idon't want anybody, I don't want
you to come in here and plug abunch of brands and stuff.

(01:06):
Um, I do want to talk aboutrealities.
And I think the equipment gameis one of those areas where
dentists think they have itfigured out.
Heck, maybe even guys like methink I've got it all figured
out some days.
And I'm learning new stuff aboutit all the time.
You even educated me on how thesetups work a few months ago,
and you're like, hey, there'sdirt certain setups you can use
to make a dollar go further, orto obviously spend a bunch of
money.
And I kind of was like, wow,that's like makes sense.

(01:29):
But when I was thinking aboutit, it's well, I could get the
backup cam and the nav and thesunroof, but I don't have to,
and that car maybe is now moreaffordable, or if I add all that
stuff, maybe less affordable.

SPEAKER_03 (01:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
And so, first of all, thank you for bringing that
into every scenario.
And that's what I wanted to haveyou on so that there's an honest
conversation about what reallyworks and what doesn't work.
And I think that people willwatch this or listen to this and
say, Well, yeah, that guy worksfor an equipment company, so of
course he says XYZ, but thetruth is is you need the
equipment to do the dentistry.

SPEAKER_01 (01:59):
You need it.
And you know, I always telleverybody, I'm not everybody's
cup of tea.
And you will probably tell someof your clients.
So you'll have clients who say,you know what, Benaler's
probably not the right choicebecause if you get your feelings
hurt easily, maybe I'm not.
Because to your point, like I Ihave switched companies, I I
have learned new things, gottennew lines.
My whole thought process is it'snot about that, it's about the

(02:22):
specific doctrine, the specificsituation.
And I'll give you my opinionbased off of the 200 plus
build-outs that I've done.
Yeah, you might like it, youmight not, but I'm gonna explain
and educate and let you figureit out.

SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
So that's that's my my process.

SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
So in those projects, you've obviously seen
a lot done a lot.
Uh obviously we talked about theyears you've been a part of it.
Let's just start with with whatI think is one of the more
important questions, which iswhat's the biggest mistake these
folks are making?
Startup specific, mind you.
What's the biggest mistakethey're making in the equipment
category when they approachtheir startup?
And please don't say they're notbuying enough equipment.
Yeah, no, no.

(02:55):
Definitely not seeing that.

SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
Um couple things come in mind.
The first, as the doctors getyounger and younger, they focus
more on what they what they'retaking in from the internet,
right?
And I'm not saying theinternet's wrong in a lot of
ways.
I'm not saying every Facebookgroup, Instagram group, you
know, whatever it may be, iswrong.
But what I am saying is whetherit be their friend or their

(03:18):
friend's friends that did astartup in Iowa, Georgia, New
York, Miami, wherever it is,that's their one perspective in
their specific region at thatspecific time.
So that goes into things.
They've also done that projectone, maybe two, and you've got
some people on the gram andeverything, they've done it

(03:39):
three times and now think thatthey're God's gift to the dental
world.
On the gram.
Yeah.
So that's that's one of thebiggest mistakes is is listening
to those that have only done ita very small amount of times in
a different area that has nobearing on Southern California.

SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (03:55):
Because I know that you do nationwide, but for me,
that is my world of SouthernCalifornia, and we play a
completely set of differentrules, and we have to conform to
those rules.
Yep.
Um, so that's one big mistake.

SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
Um we'll call it keeping up with the Joneses.
Yeah.
Is that fair?
Yeah.
One big mistake.
Yeah.
Hey, my friend did it this way.
Do you find though, then, if wetake it one step further in that
same vein, because I find thatmore often than not, my friend
did it this way, and thatusually results in my friend
saved money by buying this fromTim Buck2, and they said it was

(04:28):
great.
And I'm like, well, they've beenusing it for three months.
A long time for that to not gogreat.

SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
Absolutely Absolutely right.
That's one of the biggest thingsis I want you to ask your
friend's perspective that's beenout two, three, five years, not
two, three, five months.
Yes.
Right?
Okay.
You're you're you're barely gotpatience in the door at that
point.
Got it.
Um, two is the exact oppositespectrum is I want these doctors
to dream, right?

(04:52):
I want them to be excited aboutwhat they're doing and actually
think about the equipment from adifferent lens.
Because most of our doctors thatare doing these startups,
they're in Pacific DentalServices, they're the Western
dentals, they're workingassociating at three, four
locations.
A lot of them are gonna be usingequipment from the 80s, 90s,
early 2000s.
Yeah.
And they say, Ben, you knowwhat, it really isn't that
important to me because I canwork on anything.

(05:14):
That's cool.
But you're not homeless anymore.

SPEAKER_03 (05:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
Right?
You're you're not homeless.
This is your house, this is youropportunity to take a look at it
and make it your your office,um, especially, especially in
the operatory.
Uh, there's a dentist that doesa lot of aesthetic stuff called
James Clem.
Uh, his name's James Clem.
And he always called it theclinical theater.
Okay.

(05:37):
Right.
And I always that that I mean, Iheard that like 10 years at like
27 and a half or whatever itwas.
Okay.
And that really kind of stuck tome because it it truly is.
It's it's their world.
Um and they need their world tobe comfortable and functional
for them because the assistant'sgoing to feel how the dentist
feels, so is the patient.
Okay.

(05:57):
Right.
So I want them to actually thinkabout that.
Um, and then so that's two.
Third is actually think aboutthe functionality.
Um, and so too many peopledecide on a specific brand or
specific style withoutunderstanding their own style.
Meaning some people love reardelivery, some people on on the

(06:19):
chair.
Yeah.
Um, some people like ceilingmatter light, some people don't.
Some people um actually want todo the uh technology as well as
case presentation in a certainformat.
Yeah.
All those things I need to knowas an equipment specialist
because that's going to limitthe brands that may or may not
be good for you.

SPEAKER_03 (06:38):
Fair.

SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
It also is going to help me understand how I need to
design that operatory.
Because if you tell me I likethings one way, I might make it
wider or deeper than anotheroperatory.
So I want to look at it fromthat perspective as well.

SPEAKER_02 (06:54):
Um, you had said something in there uh
specifically about design, andthat leads me to timing, right?
I find that in different partsof the world, we hear design
build, we hear different things,and you still need architects
and all that stuff, and that'sprobably another uh podcast
episode for another day.
Um But it's it's it's very wellknown.
Whether no matter whichequipment company you're talking
to, I think for just about anyany equipment company USA,

(07:16):
they'll offer a design service.
Yeah, the major ones are and laya floor plan out.
Uh some people call it a testfit, et cetera.
Um but I think there's amisconception about the timing
of all of it because I want toget you involved earlier with
the design, of course, because Idon't know if this space is even
legit before I signed the lease,before whatever, and I in in in
most equipment reps are up forthat.

(07:37):
I know you're up for that.
You're kind of notorious, atleast in this market, for
showing up with your spray paintand your shoes that are the
color the red, right?
And they're just spraying thephone.
Well, they're they're actuallypeak, pink and green from the
spray brain.
Fair enough, fair enough.
And uh and so everybody kind ofknows when you show up that
paint's gonna start flying.
Yeah.
And it's a and it's a coolthing.
Um but in that context, there'sa timing that I don't know if
doctors understand, like, okay,floor plan was done, but then

(07:59):
when do I actually orderequipment?
What equipment is in that firstorder?
Um talk to us a little bit aboutthe timing of it all and maybe
what the ideal time is.

SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
Yeah, the the ideal scenario is the fact that you
know if you're a linear type ofbrain that focuses on one task
at a time, yeah, startups can bea little difficult for you.

SPEAKER_02 (08:18):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
Um because you have to be able to overlap.

SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Very true.

SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Especially in the beginning, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Um it's not A to B to C, it's A,B, and C need to happen
simultaneously so D, E and F canhappen.

SPEAKER_02 (08:31):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
Um, so that's something that is really
important.
Um, so you're exactly right.
I want to be brought in early.
Umce you're narrowing downnumber of potential, like the
broker's got two or threepotential uh offices or spaces
available.
I do want to be brought in.
Um whether that to be actuallysee it in person or I want to
see CAD files, PDFs, because ifyou tell me I need 1700 square

(08:55):
feet, you show me three spacesthat are 1700 square feet, based
on the shape, the design, thelocation, what type of building
it is, based on that doctor'svision, one of those might be
better than others.
And I I I've been able to tellpeople that based off of the
shape and what they want.
So that's step one.
So being brought in early, theequipment specialist needs to be
brought in early for the designaspect of it.

(09:17):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Two is a lot of people are like, well, wait a
minute, let me interrupt you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
Why not architect or some insert somebody else?

SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
So it depends on if you are going architect-driven
process.
So for those around the nation,I was actually just talking to
one of the manufacturers thatlives in um Colorado yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
And he didn't understand that in Southern
California, 85 plus percent ofour build-outs are design build.
Right.
Meaning there's no architectinvolved at all.
That's right.
Um, some of that is just basedoff of that's the way it's been
done for a long time.
Others, price constraints.
Other times it's timeconstraints.
Yes.
Um, so if you do have anarchitect involved, um, then

(09:57):
you're gonna get them thenearly.

SPEAKER_03 (09:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
There's some national architects that still,
they the doctor knows 100%they're gonna be working with a
Joe architect or one of those.
Um, and they'll still want me todo the space plan, the
preliminary space plan.
Yeah.
Because it takes them time, ittakes them money.
Yeah.
I'm free 99, right?
You know, everybody, I meanthat's everybody's local, right?
I'm local.

SPEAKER_02 (10:18):
Architect's not flying out, doing the thing,
measuring the space.
You're there, you're local,you're looking at it.
I think there's also somethingto be said for I'm I'm more of a
fan of you over architect from atime and price perspective.
Yeah.
That's just me on the record.
I'm not saying I'manti-architect at all.
I think there's some variablesat play.
Um, if you own the building, I'mmore favorable of an architect

(10:39):
to value and you know, etcetera, investment, asset grows,
all that.
But if we're especially forrenting and leasing the space,
I'm more interested in, okay,time is money.
And it's a lot less, uh, it's alot more affordable, we'll say
less expensive to go noarchitect, and it's a lot uh
less time to bring you in floorplan to contractor, contractor
to build.
Let's go.

(10:59):
100%.

SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
It can be a three to six month difference, to be
honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 (11:03):
Yeah, exactly right.
And so as I'm negotiating on thelease, and then I go, oh, I'm
gonna bring an architect in, andthen I I would tell you on
timing where I see a lot ofdoctors get it wrong, is I'm not
gonna start this process, or I'mgonna really rev up this process
when I sign the lease.
And oftentimes you're alreadylate to the party by a lot.
You're already too late in somecases.
So I don't get you involveduntil then and I'm already uh
behind.
Um, but in that world of likearchitect or no architect, I

(11:26):
would just say I'm more leanaway from price and time and
lean in if we're buying buildingand we have more time on our
side and there's all somedevelopment and some other
things to do.

SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
And startups startups are not you know
conducive to thearchitect-driven process.
Again, right.
Not in every situation.
I've done several that have.
Yep.
It's worked out well.
Um, I also don't want to saythat, you know, I think I do a
really good job of spaceplanning in the sense that it's
going to function and flowproperly.
Yes, yes.
I did, I am not our I've got abiology degree.
Yes.

(11:53):
I am not an interior designer.
I won't pick colors, I won't dothat.
Yeah, yeah.
You will see a differencebetween an architect finished
product and not 100%.
But everybody's first uhstartup's a startup for a
reason.
It's called that for a reason.
Yeah, right?
Your first home that you boughtprobably isn't going to look
like the one that you're gonnahave in 10 to 15 years.

SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
Yeah, dream time, dream home.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
Yeah, exactly.
So um, you do have to overlap.
A lot of times I tell mycustomers that by the time the
ink is dry on that lease, notonly do we need the design, we
need to have at least narrowdown the equipment.
We don't need to know exactbrands and all of that, but we
do need to know what type ofequipment because that affects

(12:35):
everything.

SPEAKER_03 (12:35):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (12:36):
We also have needed to have contractors to the site,
interview contractors, andsometimes even know who you're
going with.
You just gotta wait till theexecution to get things rolling.
Yeah.
Because that's usually a two tothree month process in most
instances.
That's free time.
Yes.
That's free time.
And so that gets you way farahead.
So that's why the equipmentspecialist, we need to be there

(12:56):
for the design and picking outthe equipment and technology.

SPEAKER_02 (13:00):
So I would to echo that, I would say that's one of
the number one things I thinkwhen I hear from doctors and
say, well, my friend did thisand it was awful.
They had this bad experience.
And one of those things thatsounds awful is I had to start
paying rent before I was open.
And usually what that means is,well, you probably started the
process too late, and youprobably didn't realize what you

(13:21):
had just said.
A, B, and C have to get done, sothen D E and F can happen.
If you're just working on A andnot B and C, you're already
behind the eight ball.
Um, and so I think that one ofthe biggest mistakes in the
timeline is knowing how it'ssupposed to work.
You know, it's it's uh as aparent myself, I make a lot of
analyses to being a parent,right?
But like how long and when am Isupposed to sleep train?

(13:42):
Because I wish it was day oneand night one, but it's not.
And then as I have two children,some of them sleep trained right
away, easy.
Some of them, we had a sleepregression, which I didn't even
know was a thing until my secondchild.
And I'm like, oh, we're back tothe square one?
How'd that happen?
Well, yeah, it happens.
So, you know, I think that justknowing the time, uh, not only
the time when I say that, I meanhow long it takes, how much
energy it takes to get done, andthen when were you supposed to

(14:04):
start and by when should it end?
You know, if you were to startthe process and say, okay, what
should be done in a week, that'sa lot different than it should
be done in a month.
So if you didn't get it done thefirst week, that's okay.
Yeah, it's gonna take us a monthto do it.
And or if it takes us a monthand we're supposed to be done in
a week, oh crap, we're supposedto be done in a week.
So what happened?

SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (14:19):
Um so I would tell you that not understanding when
to bring you in andunderstanding the time economics
of you plus contractor pluslease, plus all those things,
plus the city that of course,permits and the whole deal.

SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Yeah, yeah.
And so that's I'd say that's oneof the things that I hear the
most on doctors that they don'tfully understand is is my friend
said they built their office inin in 12 weeks.
Yeah.
Did the project in 12 weeks.
That was the construction.

SPEAKER_03 (14:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
That was not the six months that led to the
construction.
And so in their mind, this, youknow, I'm in say they're in
June, they're like, oh man, Icould possibly open in December.

SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Yeah, no.
No, no, 100%.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (14:56):
Well, that also, though, means there's
opportunity, right?
If there's a mistake, there'salso opportunity.
The opportunity to get it rightis start sooner.
Yeah.
Organize the team earlier, openthe channels of communication
earlier, and understand, hey,since I know roughly how long
this lease negotiation is goingto take, let me go get all this
stuff done first or close to uhhaving it completed, and then I
can hit the ground running, iswhat we all want to say.
We want to hit the groundrunning, when I hit the ground

(15:17):
running.
Well, we think we're gonna hitthe ground running until we go,
okay, well, where's yourcontractor?
I don't know.
And one of the things withequipment, especially, is not
only do you want to know howmuch you know the equipment
factors that you brought up, buta lot of times so you know how
much it costs.
Because the bank's gonna go, oh,how much you spending here,
Chief?
We can't release any money untilwe know how much you're
spending.
Like, oh, I didn't even go talkto an equipment guy yet because
I heard some bad things onlineand I wanted to wait till later.

(15:38):
And it's like, well, you've justkind of messed things up.

SPEAKER_03 (15:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
Um, I also hear in that arena uh MEPs, right?
And and and you guys deliver aset of MEPs based on more or
less what the brand that theybuy, or how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 (15:52):
So, first of all, definitely don't call it an MEP
for us.

SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 (15:55):
It's not because I I got called one time to San Diego
to sign as architect on file.
And again, biology degree, I amnot an architect because they
used our set of plans.
So you know, of the majordistributors out there, um, most
all of them, once you've decidedfinalize the layout and pick the
equipment, and a lot of it isbrand specific.

(16:16):
Some of it is agnostic, it'sjust where it's going.
It's like an 11-page, 12-pagedocument that kind of go over
the MEP related items as itpertains to the dental
equipment.
Right.
Um, and that's what thecontractor and or architect or
the engineers need to createtheir own set.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
Um, they need information from you before they
can finalize their deal.

SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (16:36):
And people miss that.

SPEAKER_01 (16:37):
People miss it, and then they wonder why from the
preliminary bid to the actualbid, there's a hundred thousand
dollar delta.
Big gap.
Big gap.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, so that the constructiondelta, as well as to make it
even a little bit morecomplicated, and I'm not sure if
we'll get into it, is theinterior design aspect of it.
Right.
So you need to determinebasically what type of equipment

(16:59):
that you got.
Yep.
And you also need to at least,if you don't know exactly what
your finishes are, at least knowthe level of finish.
Yeah.
Right?
To give the contractorssomething.
I mean, you should know whetheryou're going to buy a new car if
you're going with a Kia or aG-Wagon.
Yeah.
Or something in the or a Lexusin the middle.
In the middle.
Right?
Yep.
You should know that ball gamein that ballpark.

(17:21):
So we're going to at least tellthe contractor this is what we
have.
Yep.
Because that's that's thebiggest issue, and that's
actually why I created thePinterest page, is because
doctors were getting super,super frustrated that they would
get their bid, they'd sign thecontract, and then they go to
design the front desk, and thecontractor's like, well, I
budgeted six grand for the frontdesk.
This is 20.

(17:42):
Yeah.
That has nothing to do withequipment, right?
But it does because if now that$25,000 now goes to that.
Yeah.
That just took out an operatoryof equipment.

SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Or took out the panel they weregoing to get, or certain
certainly comb beam or scanner,or you name it.
You name it.

SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
And so literally, that's when I started the
Pinterest pages, not out of youknow, me just trying to create
all these ideas.
It the doctor was so mad aboutthis front desk that I was like,
I've got to find a way to makeit easier for them to
communicate with each other.
Yeah.
Um, and that's that's when thatwhole thing and it can be.

SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
You started that probably a decade ago.
You were the first person to seethat I ever saw do that, and
then I borrowed it or stole it,uh, the at least the idea, and
said, Hey, docs, so so when Iwork with somebody, I do
Pinterest page, and I do onestep further where I give them
uh basically we put everythingin a PowerPoint presentation to
deliver to contractors.
So when they bid the process,they're going through, hey,

(18:35):
reception, I want to look likethis, and operatory like this,
and stereo like this, andbathroom like this, and yada
yada.
And so, you know, we're we'rechoosing photos off Pinterest,
of course, um, which is what Ithought, you know, when you put
that together, I thought, what agenius thing.
Because to your point, mostfolks are getting frustrated
there on the finished stuff.
And then they come back to youand go, well, hey man,
construction costs what itcosts.
Uh you know, it's 250 a squarefoot, it's 300 a square foot.

(18:57):
What do you want me to do?
Yeah, your your price thenbecomes a variable price.
And so I gotta peel off an op ofequipment, I gotta take out some
of that nice tech I wanted,boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
And the bummer is, and I'm okaybeing on record with this, but
nobody has ever agreed to atreatment plan or agreed that a
dental office was cool becauseof the cabinetry.

(19:17):
Right.
Um, I think it needs to looknice, of course.
Um, but like when you thinkabout and I and don't get me
wrong, I think that DSOs are theevil empire.
That's why I'm focused on theprivate practitioner to start or
buy their practice.
And not all DSOs are terrible,but let's be honest, they would
love if they could run us offthe road in the private practice
game, they would.
And that's just how Amazon wouldrun everybody out of business if

(19:38):
they could, right?
So um, but in that arena, whatwhat I look at or or or how I
got on that part of it was youknow, the um the docs and the
and the variable pricing and theDSOs of it, the DSOs don't spend
that much money on finishes andfixtures.
No, they spend money on chairs,they spend money on tech, not

(19:59):
not great tech, but tech ingeneral.

SPEAKER_01 (20:00):
They actually are now.
Yeah, that's that's true.
Yeah, they've realized it alittle bit.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
Um, but they don't typically spend money on nice
high-end.
You'll go into some of them andyou know they're doing millions
of dollars out of a location,and then you're like, well, this
is linoleum floors.
Who's putting linoleum floorsin?
Like this is a hospital.
Patients typically don't give arip.
You know what I mean?
If you make them feelcomfortable, you're convenient,
you take their insurance, you'rein and out.
And I and I hate to dumb itdown, but I'm simply saying that

(20:25):
that's the the bar is set prettylow.
So if you can get the patient toovercome some of those things
and see the value in yourpractice, I'm down to spend good
money on finishes and fixtures.
But we've got a balancing act.
I thought your pension stuff wasgreat for that.

SPEAKER_01 (20:38):
No, I appreciate that.
And no, it kind of bit me in thebutt a little bit because once
you started seeing and uh haveall these beautiful practices in
there, and a lot of them aren'tstartups.
So if you show somebody thebuttercake, you're gonna order
the buttercake.
Yes.
You know?
Um so it kind of bit it bit mein the butt that way.
However, it it's given us a goodopportunity to say yes.

(21:00):
We don't the DSOs don't spend iton it, but I still think that
some of the interior designersor what people are doing are
still able to elevate it.
Yeah.
But what we call value engineer.
Yes.
I want doctors, I want my,especially my startups, to
understand the concept of valueengineering to where you take
Ben's Pinterest page of thisfront office and say, hey,
contractor, this is the visionthat I have.

(21:23):
Let's put it into a startupbudget.
And you'd be pretty impressedwith you making it look way more
expensive than it actually is.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (21:29):
And I think you should.
If you are gonna be differentthan the DSOs, then look
different.

SPEAKER_01 (21:33):
That's just look different, but there's ways to
do it.
But everything is aboutplanning, right?
So if if you have thatconversation with the contractor
first, you can get the beautifuloffice.

SPEAKER_03 (21:43):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
You can get it.
However, it's gonna be done adifferent way.
Yeah.
But at least it's been budgetedproperly so we don't get that
big$50,000 oops on the back end.

SPEAKER_02 (21:53):
So then again, another opportunity there.
Opportunity in this case beingif you plan everything right the
first time, you can focus onnothing but growth.
You don't have to go, oh crap, Ididn't know there was a fifty
thousand dollar oops coming.
Uh now I don't get to grow asquickly as I thought because I
had to spend a bunch of money inthis arena.
Yeah.
Less money for marketing or lessmoney for team or less money for
all those other things, becauseI have to cover something that

(22:13):
should have been thought aboutthree or six months ago.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Um, when you look at let's govalue engineering and the
equipment game, what do you meanif we were to talk about that?
Hey, Ben, I want bang for mybuck stuff.
Not necessarily brands, um, butis there anything as you look at
the configuration of an officewhere doctors could either spend
a little more to get a lot morevalue or spend a little less uh

(22:34):
bang for their buck stuff?

SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
Yeah, I'd say, you know, with everything in life in
the consumer world, there's I Ihave a form that I created
that's good, better, best,right?
Okay, cool.
Um, and it kind of breaks downthe brands based off of that.
Okay.
Um, I'm I'm not one that's gonnashove one specific brand down
somebody's throat.
Do I have preferences of what Iknow works and is supported?

(22:57):
100%.
Yeah.
And I won't apologize for that,but I also don't want to have a
conversation.
Hi, my name's Ben, you have toget this.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?
Here's a piece of Mercedes.
Yeah, exactly.
So it's not gonna happen.
Yeah, um, my job is to goeducate, go over what is good,
what is better, what is best.
Okay.
So if a doctor is telling me,like Ben, I'm focused on
technology.

(23:18):
That is my focus, that's what Iwant.
Yeah, we're gonna spend a lotmore time and money and effort
into that.
And maybe we go to somethingmore cost effective.
That doesn't mean cheap.
That doesn't, and I don't like Idon't like selling things that I
have to apologize for.
Yeah.
And chairs and units and lightsare something that if you go
down that rabbit hole of cheap,that will happen because

(23:41):
everything looks good one onemonth to six months in.
Yeah, yeah.
It's three years down the roadthat it doesn't.
But again, it's not to say thatyou have to have the creme de la
creme, the top at the top, butit's doing that balancing act.
So I I think for a lot of mystartups, it's either let's go
with something in the middle ofthe road, or if you say, Ben, I
I do want this is the equipmentthat I'm used to and this is

(24:02):
what I want.
So, okay, we can certainly dothat, but there are ways that we
can get you into that equipmentat a startup budget in a startup
format, meaning a lot of it ismodular.
Oh, okay.
So say you do three operatoriesand you say, I want I want the
best of the best, right?
Uh of brand.

(24:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Brand A, for example.
Yes, great.
Um let's get you that.
But let's say let's pickliterally choosing a specific
touchpad, okay, an electricmotor, okay, uh uh integrated
scalar, the different types ofoptions that you put on there
can literally create a$10,000 to$20,000 delta on a single chair.

(24:46):
Wow.
So let's get you product Abecause it lasts, because it's
durable, because you know whatyou're getting.
Yes.
However, let's do it in a formatthat we're not 15 years in.
Yeah.
Let's build it in that way.
Or if not, there's product B inC and D that we can go to that I
will fully support, my text canfully install and support, and

(25:08):
we'll still get you that growththat you were trying to get.

SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
Right, right, right.
So we're literally talking aboutuh I do want the car, I know
it's well made, engine's great,drives great, I'm gonna go with
nav, with sunroof, with backupcam, with rain sensing wipers,
or I'm not gonna go with any ofthat stuff because I don't need
it.
I know where I'm going, I don'tneed the nav.
This is my wife, by the way.
She does not really care aboutcars, um, but she only thing she

(25:31):
wants is a backup camera.
It's the only thing she wants.
Now, a lot of times, dependingupon brand, when you want backup
camera, and they know they gotyou, you have to get the tech
package, which comes with navand sunroof and upgraded audio
system.
And she's like, But I don't wantany of that stuff.
Now, they don't typically pullit all out and say, well, we'll
just give you the backup camerabecause they come from the
factory that way.
But I assume that that's kind ofhow it went with chairs.
I didn't know you could say, no,no, no, I just want the$500

(25:53):
backup camera option, the restof it leave off the car.
That'd be kind of nice if Icould do that.
You're telling me I can do thatin the chair game.

SPEAKER_01 (25:59):
100%.
It's cool.
Which is a beautiful thing, andthat isn't the way it used to
always be.

SPEAKER_02 (26:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
All the brands are starting to do that.
But the one thing I will cautiondoctors that it's a complete
farce and a horrible mindset ofBen, you know what?
I'm a startup, so right now I amgonna get the bottom of the
barrel chair.
And when I start making money,then I'll replace the chairs.
Because you know how many timesthat's actually happened?
Zero.

SPEAKER_03 (26:24):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
Or if it did, it's because it literally broke down
two years in, they had toreplace it.
Yeah.
Um, and that's just that'sthat's not the right mindset.
You know, let's you can affordyou the type of dentistry that
you provide needs to reflect theoffice that you have.
Right.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (26:42):
And it's hard to show that value add to patients
if you haven't taken theopportunity to do that in your
practice.
You're trying to tell them thatyou're worth more and you're
better than this, and you know,this is why maybe you don't take
insurance or why you built extrafor zirconia crowns or whatever
it is, but you haven't reallyspent the extras to deliver
that.
There's so much of theexperience, there's so much of
the product that isexperience-based.

(27:02):
And that's where I think if wewere having a marketing
conversation where the bigmistake is or the big miss is
with doctors, in that theexperience has to deliver.
And oftentimes, and I know youhave seen this a lot, because
I've seen this a lot and you seemore than I do, a lot of offices
say, Well, we're different, orwe're the whatever they say.
We're like trying to be thedifferent dental office or the
different things, and then Iwalk in and the experience is

(27:23):
relatively the same.
I mean, not to be harsh, butthere's a front desk and there's
a chair, and there's a light,and there's a unit.
And most patients will not knowuh if that chair costs you
10,000 or 30,000 or whatever.
But you as the dentist will knowis it making my job easier?
Am I stressed about it breaking?
Is my back hurting because I canbe ergonomic?
Am I gonna lean this chair backand it's not gonna be able to

(27:44):
get them back up?
100%, you know?
Yeah.
Um, but you're saying you'redoing all these things,
everything is different, butthen it really isn't that
different to them.

SPEAKER_03 (27:51):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Um, and so I I think that the experience part of it
is something they have to focuson, and that does come with,
well, what the heck did youselect to put in this office?
Does that help deliver a betterexperience or not?
Because if it's just kind of allthe same ho hum, then the
patient's gonna go, you're anice doc, but like this is the
same as what I went to down thestreet.
So like 100%.

SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
And then the things that make a office tick and
efficient are often the thingsthat you don't see and it's not
sexy, right?
Um compressor.
Like I was told by the guy thattrained me 2007, 2000, 2008.
Yes.
Um, this might get cut, but uhhe always told me, Ben, no
stuck, no blow, no dentistry.

SPEAKER_02 (28:29):
Okay, okay.
Yeah, so I get it.

SPEAKER_01 (28:32):
The vacuum compressor is everything.
Yes.
It's the heartbeat of yourpractice.
So you know, picking a cheap oneof those or a sterilizer, which
gets used all day, every day,yes, those are things that
aren't sexy that the doctorwasn't trained on.
Like in dental school,especially these startups that
came out of dental school, youput the dirty instruments in the

(28:53):
black hole, yeah, in the nextblack hole next to it, magical
new instruments came out.
Okay, that's how it works.

SPEAKER_02 (28:59):
That's how it worked, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
And so it's not like that now.
Yeah.
This is your office.
So a lot of that money needs tobe dedicated towards getting
something quality when it comesto sterilization in the
mechanical room because that iswhat makes the office tick.

SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
So let me rapid fire for a second.
If we did value add or not, likewhere would you go save your
money versus spend your moneyequipment-wise?
You spend money on chairs, butyou would save money on what?
Or would you not?

SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
I it's so individualistic.
Yeah.
I mean, uh it definitely there'sthere's two to three brands of
each area, sterilizationmechanical, operatory equipment,
okay, that depending onpreferences and what their
vision for their practice andwhat they're trying to
accomplish with it is, yeah,that I can save, I can make that
bar move 15 to 20 percent, whichis a significant amount.

SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Because you've got to think is that after if the
average startup spends anywherefrom 150 to 200,000 on
equipment, that's not a hugedelta.
Yeah.
Um, we can get you where youneeded to be.
The bigger delta is theconstruction and all of that.
Of course.
Um But it's not it's not like,hey, get cheap X or get cheap Y.
Okay.
It's let's be smart and pick andchoose the brands that get you

(30:08):
there.
Um also really rely on yourequipment specialist and the
relationships that they've builtwith those manufacturing
partners to make that dollar gofurther.

SPEAKER_02 (30:17):
So is it better than how should a startup approach
you?
Because sometimes I find that Iwant startup doctors to be
decisive, but if they come toyou and say, Well, I need to
have the best of everything, weall know that there is a budget
buzzsaw coming because everybodyhas a budget.
And at some point, they'reeither going to run into it or
the bank's gonna call them andsay something, or somebody's

(30:39):
gonna raise their hand and go,ooh, you know what?
I actually can't get all thatstuff.
Yeah, I don't know how I'm gonnaafford all that stuff.
Um, and so would you rather comelike how do you want them to
approach you?
Would should they come to youwith a here's all my equipment
list, I already sourced it andhelp me find it, or should what
should they do?

SPEAKER_01 (30:52):
Um They just don't have the knowledge of the
equipment to actually source itand understand what this
equipment what questions youneed to ask for the right
equipment.

SPEAKER_03 (31:02):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
Um have an understanding of what's
important to you on thefunctionality of the equipment.
Okay.
Um come to me then, and thenI've always taken the approach
and it takes more time to do itthis way, but um I always want
to have them create uh give methe information for me to create
a proposal that's the most idealsetup.
Okay in perfect world.

(31:24):
Yep, and then and then I caneither notate subtract X dollars
to do this or that, or I createone proposal perfectly ideal and
a 1B proposal that is more of alittle bit dumb down.
Yeah, I mean it's it's it takesme twice the amount of time.
Yes.
However, um we know that buzzsaw, like you said, is coming.

(31:44):
Um that's not to say thatproposal A is gonna be G Wagon
and Hyundai.
B is Kia Sorrento.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but there's that happymedium, and then we say, okay,
well, in the ideal settingversus one B, there's a$30,000
delta.
You as a consultant have a muchbetter, broader understanding of

(32:05):
what we have to be at.
You say, hey, where do we wherecan we cut$20,000 where it's not
going to affect the way that youpractice dentistry?

SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
And that's where that's where we take it.
But working from the bottom up,let's go, let's then create me
the cheapest possible option,then let's go up.
Yeah.
Does not work.

SPEAKER_02 (32:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:23):
It doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 (32:24):
So there's something though that as a takeaway, when
talking to an equipment rep thatisn't you, ask for if I can be
so bold, and this is going tocreate some work for some reps
from the country or that'snonsense.
But you know, hey, I would liketo say this is my ideal setup,
but then I'd also like analternative option that has a
gap in pricing.
Yeah.
Because this way I at least Iknow at that point what I'm

(32:44):
giving up.
You know, uh as uh I've got thelatest uh iPhone Air here
because that was valuable to me.
But um, again, to pick on mywife for a second because she's
not here today, but she'll hearthis.
Um, you know, she doesn't reallycare about tech at all, as long
as it works.
And so she, well, why would youspend that kind of money on that
and whatever?
And I'm like, well, to me, it'sa tool.
I utilize it all day long, andmine was two years old.

(33:05):
And I'm I swear to you, theyhave a they have a timer
somewhere baked in the inside ofthese things that the battery
starts to go.

SPEAKER_01 (33:11):
My wife's at that point right now, she's got that
little thing that she has.

SPEAKER_02 (33:15):
It starts to zap.
Um, but so in that same genre,you know, for her, she's like, I
don't don't don't sell me the$1,500 iPhone or show me the
$1500 one so I know what I'mgiving up when I go to the$1,000
one.

SPEAKER_03 (33:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
And you're and and I'm saying the same thing in
equipment.
Let's get the hey, here's ideal.
This is$180,000,000,$200,000.
Here's the one for$150.
Let's see what the gap lookslike, and if that gap is
livable, manageable.
Maybe you go, hey, yeah, Iactually didn't want some of
that other stuff anyway.
Now come to think of it.
I don't really need it today.
I need it when I have you knowmore patience, more growth, more
whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
100%.
And you know, it also gives themthe opportunity to not have to
kill their dreams.
And if they want product A, sayyou can't do it because a lot of
what these manufacturers havedone is they've understood that
as the prices have risen, maybethey're being priced out.
So they're actually being a lotmore competitive than we thought
when it comes specifically tostartups.

(34:04):
Yes, yes.
There's bundles and bundled andthere's things out there.
Absolutely.
The top top three manufacturersall have startup bundles that
that if you do that, it doesbring it into the ballpark.
Yeah.
We can have the discussion.

SPEAKER_02 (34:18):
I'm always an advocate to find a way to get
you three or four ops than to godown to two ops, right?
For the budget.
So when we're looking at thebudget, I'm more of a stickler
on no, no, no, no, no.
Because the easiest thing to dois go, well, let's cut a chair.
And sometimes the doctors willcall me and go, well, it looks
like I only have to, you know,we'll only be able to afford two
chairs, let's cut a chair.
No, well, let's look at thisthing, let's get more granular
if we have to, let's startswapping out brands if we have

(34:38):
to, but let's keep three or fourops on this thing instead of
just the easiest thing to do isgo, oh, let's just cut, let's
just cut an operatory.
That's uh that's that doesn'ttake any thought.
That doesn't take any, you'renot really doing anything for
them besides, oh, let's just gowithout for now.
Yeah.
Um, so I'm always more of anadvocate of that.
Three or four instead of justcut one, but let's just look at
in that three or four.

(34:58):
Are we doing some of thismodular stuff we're talking
about?
Are we maybe I don't know ifwe're going without something
else, but sometimes we're goingout with something else on the
construction side.

SPEAKER_01 (35:06):
You know, do we the $50,000 fish tank?

SPEAKER_02 (35:09):
$50,000 fish tank, right?
Cabinetry can be a real son of agun.
And when they do all thesebuilt-ins, and you're, you know,
I doctor's private office killsme because a doctor's private
office with all the built-inscould be$10,000 right out of the
gate.
And like, oh my god, I had noidea.
And I'm like, yeah, you reallycare about that dust that much?
And most doctors go, no, I'll goto Ikea and get one for$500 and
it'll be beautiful.
Right.
So let's do that and let's saveourselves$10,000.

(35:30):
But I I usually oftentimes saysay to doctors, it's the easiest
way to dumb it down is what areyou gonna cut?
And I think this is true fromstart to finish.
When you want to go look atspaces, and I think you saw the
podcast with uh real estatefolks on it.

SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
Yeah, yeah, what's up?

SPEAKER_02 (35:44):
So so in that scenario, there is no such thing
as ideal.
There is, hey, this is what'sgonna work for you, but you're
gonna have to make a concession.
You're gonna have to concede oneither drive time, exact
location, was it retail spacenext to Whole Foods?
No, it was retail space, but theWhole Foods across the street,
you're in the other one.
Or was it medical officebuilding and the Whole Foods is
still next door, but it's areally nice medical office

(36:05):
building, and they gave you agreat lease and they gave you
great TIs.
But again, you had to cutsomething out of your
compromise.
You have to compromise at alltimes.

SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
Yes.
In in every facet of this buildbuild out.
That's the compromise is adirty, like seems like a dirty
term, but it's not.

SPEAKER_02 (36:19):
Yeah.
Like, I'm thinking about mychildren right now, and when I
tell them they have tocompromise, they're like, I'm I
feel like I'm losing.
Yeah, yeah.
You're not losing.
Dad, I'm giving him the toy andI want the toy.
What the hell is this?
Compromise nonsense.
I don't want to compromise.

SPEAKER_01 (36:32):
That's it's you're not losing.

SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
It's hard to say, yeah, but it's hard to say, hey,
let's talk about your dream andthen let's compromise, because I
don't really want to compromiseon my dream.

SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
For sure.

SPEAKER_02 (36:39):
You know, um, but that's what it takes to achieve
the dream.
Yeah.
And that's what I think somepeople are forgetting.
It takes a compromise.
It takes a hey, here's what I'mwilling to go without, either
without for forever or withoutfor now, in order to achieve the
dream.

SPEAKER_01 (36:49):
Yeah.
And sometimes we have to get alittle bit tricky.
Like I'm I'm a big proponent ofstartups, like a GP style
startup, um, of having three, iffour is a possibility, then four
great.
But three is like the magicnumber for me because it allows
you to balance that.
I've got some that want some ofthe finer things in life.
And so I've actually gone downto what's called two and a half

(37:10):
operatories.
I think we actually, yeah, weactually worked one together.
Yeah, two and a half, yeah.
And because you gotta think, ifyou're if the first year and a
half, like that third fulloperatory is is hopefully you're
gonna get hygienists reallyquick.

SPEAKER_02 (37:21):
Yes, yes, you know, yeah, you're growing then for
sure.

SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
100%.
And so that's where you needthat real third one.
So, but if you're down to twooperatories and you got somebody
that just wants whitening, youjust killed an entire chair for
whitening, don't do that.
But with a emergency that walksoff 100%.
But if you have a chair and anassistance package, yeah, we can
do a lot.
We can do post op, we can doconsultations, we can do

(37:45):
whitening, we can do invisalign,we can do whatever you want.
Yeah.
Um other than drill and fill.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (37:51):
So that that's where it's we can also add the package
later, and now that chair isfully functional.
Exactly what we that exactlywhat we talked about.
Module.

SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
Yeah.
And most of the time when we saymodular, it's like let's add
this to the delivery unit, butin this case, it's let's add the
whole damn deliver unit later.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?
You know.
But it's it's a compromise, yetit's a functional compromise,
right?
Okay.
Um I don't know how you want todo it, but like the technology
aspect, that's a whole othergame.
Yes, it is.
Yes, it's a good idea.
But that's a whole nother areaof compromise and things that I

(38:20):
think that need to be discussedmore.

SPEAKER_02 (38:22):
Tell me what you think about um 3D printing
versus milling, because I thinkthere's a version where 3D
printing overtakes milling.
And I'm not saying it willhappen.
I'm not saying it's a guaranteeto happen.
I'm saying that there's a lot ofpeople that want to push the
bounds of 3D printing.
Now, I personally don't think 3Dprinting is there yet.

SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
It's 100% not there yet.

SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
Um I don't know if it'll ever get there, like
anything else in life.
We're supposed to have flyingcars by now, and I don't know if
we'll ever get them.
Um But tell me what Elon's gonnamake a trillion dollars, so
probably flying cars here prettysoon.
Pretty soon.
Um It'd be nice to just haveself-driving cars that work
without scaring you half todeath.
Um but if it's not 3D printingand milling, where do you see
that tech world as far as likeooh, I there's some things I'm

(39:01):
really like coming down thecorridor.
There's some things that I don'tknow if it's ever really gonna
be all as cracked up to be.

SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
Yeah, I so when milling and printing, I I those
are two separate categories forme still.
Yeah.
They truly are.
I I'm actually a big proponentof of in-office milling because
I mean if you send it out, Iagree, um, you're still getting
a milled crown.
You know, that that's just thatchip is selled.

SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
Um there's something to say, well, I just don't want
to do any of it.
Well, now AI is generating thecrown for you anyway.
So there's getting to be lessand less excuses to not do
same-day dentistry.

SPEAKER_03 (39:30):
Yeah, very true.

SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
Um but milling and printing are two separate
categories right now.
Now there are like Sprint RayMidas has their whole thing that
they're doing now, but thematerials haven't caught up yet.
But I do believe that there isgoing to be a day to where the
materials and the technologydoes catch up.
It's not really the technology,it's the materials that haven't
caught up.

SPEAKER_02 (39:49):
It takes you longer though to print and mill, right?

SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
Yeah, it's it's it's a different workflow.
Yeah.
Um but things have gotten fasterand faster and faster, just like
every piece of technology.
Yeah, I do see the day.
And if you actually look at, Imean, the number one mill is Din
Splice Rona, right?
They've got their sector, guesswhat they also have?
The prime print.
Yeah.
Guess where they're putting alltheir RD development right now?
Right.
Probably in the printing.
Presence in 3D printing.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?

(40:11):
That's that, so that kind ofgives you a little bit of idea
of where it's going, going.
But I um when it comes tostartups, like if you don't have
a CT and a scanner, don't get a3D printer.
What are you gonna do?
Print little baby Yodas and givethem out to patients.
Like that does you no good.
Yeah, you know, but I I love 3Dprinting for several different
reasons.

(40:32):
It's also a very low barrier toentry as far as price point.
Okay.
I mean, you can get a good 3Dprinter now, you know, anywhere
from$10,000 to$20,000 versuslike Mills.

SPEAKER_02 (40:43):
Of course.

SPEAKER_01 (40:43):
You're gonna get anywhere from$50 to$100,000 for
now.

SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
A good one.
And I think that's what makesthe 3D printing attractive, why
some people want to push thatmore and say, well, it's pretty
much there, it's somewhat there.
And I hear both.
I hear the materials aren'tthere yet.
I hear some doctors like, uh,good enough.
I I don't, I'm not theclinician, I don't know.
Yeah, but I think because of theprice point, they think, well, I
want to try it, you know, likeanything else.
We've all been in a positionwhere we bought something, like,
well, I want to make it work,and like at the end of the day,
it just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 (41:06):
It's it to me, it's just not there yet.
Yeah.
Um, I do see applications and areason to buy 3D printers.

SPEAKER_02 (41:11):
Is there a reason to get involved early from an
adoption and learning curvestandpoint, or do you think AI
is just gonna come in and you'llhit a button and go?

SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
It's so easy now.
There's no, I mean, and yougotta think if you're if you're
really thinking about buyingtechnology to actually truly
utilize in three years, just buyit three years because it's
gonna change so much.
It's changed.
I mean, think about like liketwo years ago the the hottest 3D
printer was the Pro 55.
Well, I had a doctor ask for ittoday, it's already
discontinued.
Like already.

SPEAKER_02 (41:39):
Hey, my buddy got one of these three years ago.

SPEAKER_01 (41:41):
That's literally what happened, not even three
years ago.
Yeah, uh, yeah.
Last year.
Um and that's just that'stechnology for you.
Yeah.
Um, fair enough.
But for me, technology is allabout you can't diagnose what
you can't see.
And so for me, even as astartup, I think startups aren't
appreciative enough of where theprice point has gonna come down
on technology that allows them.

SPEAKER_03 (42:00):
Very true.

SPEAKER_01 (42:01):
I mean, when when I started selling CBCTs, the
cheapest one was 115,000.
I remember this, yeah.
And the most expensive one was230,000.
Um now you've got these greatbrands that do these bundles
that bundle the sensor, theX-ray, the 3D, uh sub 80.
Like I mean, it's crazy.

(42:22):
Yeah.
Um and it's good technology.
Um so I'm a huge proponent ofthat.

SPEAKER_02 (42:27):
I haven't thought about that, but you're spot on,
man.
Because I remember when I was infinancing, we were financing
just the machines, and you'relike, dude, that's like as much
as an office is.
That's crazy.
I can't believe somebody wouldspend the money on that because
they are 150, 180, 200 plus.
Um, and and we were financingthem because they had to be
financed at the time, and no onewas touching them uh otherwise.
So uh now that when you bringthat up, I'm like, oh my gosh,

(42:48):
one, I've been in the game for along time.
Yeah.
This is how much that it hit me.
But the other part is yeah,you're right, sub 80 for all of
that.
And it's all really good.
Um yeah, it really does make youthink, you know, where are we
gonna be here in the nearfuture?
So then with a startup, if we'retalking about we understand
three chairs or two and a half,where am I putting my money in
the tech side?
Because I tell doctors, uh, toyour point, you said you can't

(43:10):
diagnose what you can't see.
I still am a very, very bigbeliever in the intra-oral
camera.
Very simple, very easy piece oftechnology that I want more
intra-oral camera photos takenby any doctor I work with than I
want them to be showing X-rays.
I think you need the X-raysdoctor for your own stuff and
insurance companies on X-rays.
But me as a patient, and I wouldjust had my teeth cleaned last
week, and they had one of theAIs, I won't say, overlay on the

(43:33):
X-ray to show me, hey, there'ssome stuff here we want to look
at, a little calculus buildup,et cetera.
But even still, I'm looking atan X-ray, and it looks like a
black and white TV to me.
I have no idea what I'm lookingat.
A little uh, yeah, yeah, alittle um, you know, colored dot
popped up, and if they hoveredover it, they're like, oh, a
little calculus buildup here.
Okay.
That doesn't really do me anyfavors.

(43:53):
If you show me, as I've hadplenty of times before, an
intra-oral camera photo, loweranteriors are going, hey, look,
this is the buildup, and thenyou show me afterwards, it
reinforces for me why I need toget my butt back in the door
every six months.
Because I'll remember thatphoto.
For sure.
Andor if I have a cracked tooth,an old amalgam filling, I'm
gonna remember that how bad thatlooked on camera.
I also might uh want to show myspouse because when I go home

(44:15):
and say, Yeah, they told me Ineed about two grand worth of
dental today, and she goes,Well, you're not in any pain,
right?
Well, what are you talkingabout?
I can go, well, this is what itlooks like, honey.
And she might go, ooh, yeah,that looks bad.
Yeah, otherwise, uh, I know sheloves me a lot, but she'll go,
if you're not any pain, what arewe even talking about?
Uh now let's go to Hawaii orlet's go to Capra.
That's where we're gonna spendthat money.
Okay, great.
Same dollars, same dollars.
Same dollars, same dollars.

(44:36):
So I'm a big proponent ofintraoral cameras.
I know they're not the sexiestthing, I know they're not the
most expensive thing, they'revery affordable, but tell me
what you're a big proponent of.
It's like, hey, this is where astartup should invest their
money.
They got limited budget, butwhere should they invest?

SPEAKER_01 (44:48):
Well, I mean, so here's the cool part is most of
the good intraoral scanners nowhave the cameras built into it.
And not only that, is I'm a hugeproponent of a new patient exam,
regardless of how you bill itout, that's y'all's world.
Yeah, yeah, is intraoral scan, aCT, four bite wings.
If you do all of those, by thetime that patient sits down in

(45:10):
that chair, they're gonna haveon the screen every bit of
information, and the doctor hasthe ability to diagnose anything
they need to from those images.
Now, the cool thing about theinterroll scanner having the
photo detection is that, like,say they leave and you forgot to
take that intraoral photo ofthis, you can go back to that
scan.
Good point, and now you've gotthat image.
That's a good point.
But you also don't have threeintra roll scanners, right?

(45:32):
So running around.
So yes, I think it's a value tohave the intra roll scanner that
does that, but I also believethat 100% you have I'm I'm a big
believer in photos and videosanyway, yeah.
Um in my world, uh documentingmy projects.
Yeah.
Um I I have a trouble with itfrom me, is you know, we've got
intra-world cameras as anequipment specialist that are

(45:54):
five, six thousand dollars foran intra world camera, and I'm
like, I can't I can't get behindthat.

SPEAKER_02 (45:59):
Um it's hard to argue when they're like, well, I
found this other one online andit's the same, and you're like,
if not, yeah.
I think at that point you'retrying to sell the flat screen
TV for 3,000 bucks, and you'relike, but Black Friday one for
500.
100%.

SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
And is it gonna last as long as it is as good?
Probably not, but does it getyou to the endpoint, same
endpoint?
And a lot of times, yes.

SPEAKER_02 (46:19):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (46:19):
You know, so that that's where like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (46:22):
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
Okay, so I love that part thoughabout the scanner because I
didn't really think about that,but you're right.
I have seen and heard some ofthem also have carries
detection.

SPEAKER_01 (46:30):
Yeah.
Um a lot of the new ones havecarries detection built in, so
great for people that don't wantradiation.
Yep, yep.
Um, you've got the photos thatyou can get at any point, the AI
and the same.

SPEAKER_02 (46:41):
I don't want radiation, but I got this glued
to my head and my airpods in allday.
I'm gonna grind you down onradiation.
Yeah, we're in LA, baby.

SPEAKER_01 (46:47):
I've got I mean it's there's all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (46:49):
Um my gosh, yes, that's true.
That's true.
How do you feel about umsomebody hit me with this the
other day?
How do you feel about uh what'sthe other thing out there that's
um it's uh I know the namebrand, but it's not uh it's not
a Cavitron and it's not a piezo.
I think it's a brand of Airflow?
Yeah, the Airflow, right?

SPEAKER_01 (47:04):
Yeah, so there's a Q there's a brand or EMS is uh is
the brand.
Okay.
Hugh Friday has one.
Uh guided biofilm therapy iswhat it is.
Yes, GBT.
I think it's amazing technology.
I drink a lot of coffee and havea lot of staining because of
that.
And it I've had it used on me.
It really does work.

SPEAKER_02 (47:24):
Okay.
I have not yet, and I need to.
I was also pretty awesome.
You know, it's it's a bit of aninvestment.
It is some doctors are kind ofin that same intra-oral scanner,
uh, intra-oral camera category,uh, or or intra-oral camera
that's five grand versus fivehundred.
It's well, you know, Cavitronstill works pretty great.
Yeah.
Um, versus the guided biofilm,which is I don't I is there a
range on those machines?

(47:44):
Are they all bouncing?

SPEAKER_01 (47:46):
Anywhere, no, no, there's a big range, anywhere
from ten to seventeen thousanddollars for the guided biofilm
therapy camera units.
Um listen, I I will say that itis a big investment.
I've got a lot of startups thatstill do it.
Yep that not only does it work,two, it's honestly a good
marketing aspect of it from amarketing perspective, it works
really well.

(48:06):
And three, is every dentist I'veever met is awful at scaling
teeth.

SPEAKER_02 (48:10):
Yes, very true.

SPEAKER_01 (48:11):
They're awful at it.
And so if you can give themsomething to make them better at
something that they're bad at,yeah, because for most of these
new doctors, their firstexperience with that doctor is
gonna be them scaling for thatfirst year because they're the
ones doing it.
Yep.
So if that doctor is puttingthem in pain, they're not coming
back for the crown because ifyou can't even make my scrape my
teeth and make it feel good,what are they gonna do when they

(48:32):
stick that shot in my mouth?

SPEAKER_02 (48:34):
I've had a gentle hygienist and I've had a heavy
and I've had a heavy-handedhygienist.
I've been to that hygienist onceand never back again.
You know, it's a clean heavyhanded film, man.
Heavy-handed hygienist is bad.
And I've also heard, I've beenin offices and heard them say,
Well, yeah, of course my gumsare bleeding.
You're just jamming me withwhatever that thing was for the
last 20 minutes.
Yeah, I could taste the blood,of course they're bleeding, and
you're trying to tell them thatthey've got perio, and they're

(48:55):
going, yeah, yeah, right.
Right.
I got perio because you've beengetting away at my gums.

SPEAKER_01 (48:59):
So, yeah, so I do see value in it.
Now, the one thing that I willsay is it's all about those
discussions up front.
What I don't want to do is thedoctor's like, you know, I would
really want a piezo andeverything, so let's build three
of those into all three of mydeliveries.
Well, they're$3,000 each tobuild in.
So I've spent$9,000 on built-inones, and then now I'm going to

(49:20):
bring another$15,000 one in.
Yeah, smart.
So now I've I've spent$25,000 onscalars of my startup budget.
You can't do both.
Okay.
Um but I I don't think thatthat's a waste of money.

SPEAKER_02 (49:32):
Okay.
Anything that you think is awaste of money.

SPEAKER_01 (49:35):
Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 (49:36):
It doesn't have to be equipment, it can be whatever
you want.

SPEAKER_01 (49:38):
Well, I I what I think is a waste is doctors not
spending enough time ondetermining what brand or what
brand software to use ontechnology.
Because to what we talked aboutearlier is that all of these
CTs, every single one of them onthe marketplace, is affordable
now.
Okay.
No matter what yes, there'salways going to be that range,

(49:58):
but they are all within therange of you being able to say
yes to what's most important toyou.
They're all affordable.
But first thing I do is I Iguide my doctors and say, hey,
can't diagnose what you can'tsee.
Let's first pick based off offield of view how big and what
do we need to see now, based offof what you're doing now.

(50:20):
But also let's think a littlebit farther out.
Okay.
What are you actually going tobe doing in the future?
Um, because you don't want tobuy a CT that has a massive
field of view that costs$40,000because you think one day you're
also going to do ortho in theoffice and you want to see here,
here, right?
Like and you end up not doingit.

(50:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of course.

SPEAKER_02 (50:41):
Because ortho moved in next door and you're like,
well, okay, great.

SPEAKER_01 (50:44):
Yeah, so you just completely so I don't I don't
want you to buy and waste moneyon that.
I also don't want you to say,well, I don't even place
implants, Ben.
I want an eight by eight fieldof view, this tiny little field
of view, and I can get it downto$40,000.
Well, that's a waste too,because nine times out of ten,
you're gonna want a medium fieldof view.
Okay.
So for my average GP, I wantthem to get into that at least

(51:06):
medium field of view.
Don't go too big unless you are100% know that you're going to
need it.
But then all of them, it's likeSamsung versus iPhone, they all
have good cameras now.
The technology's good.
Yeah.
Um, let's pick off of thesoftware.
Okay.
Because the differences insoftware between the SIDEXs, the
DTX, the Romexis, the cleverones, um, there's some major

(51:29):
differences.
They're all okay.
Some are better than others, andsome are more tailored to the
type of dentistry that they'redoing.
Um, so I want them to sit downand actually look at the
software rather than being like,well, I can get this one for
$3,000 less.
I don't give a rip.
If like patient experience,patients feel when something is
smooth.

(51:50):
Yeah.
And if you pick the brand, thesoftware that works best for the
way that you practice dentistry,again, your assistant's gonna
feel it, you're gonna feel it,the patient's gonna feel it, and
you're gonna use it more.
So that$3,000 that you savedwhen you were at day one means
absolutely nothing for threeyears right now.

SPEAKER_02 (52:06):
Yeah.
Okay.
So there there was I wasthinking about a lot of things
as you're giving that answer,which one would be if I can get
shitty for a second, like a lotof reps don't talk like that.
I think it I would tell you thatit's because there's a I don't
want to call it a laziness, butI would say that a lot of reps
are just like, yeah, yeah, Doc,here's what you need.

(52:28):
You need this.
They don't ask the questions,they don't give them a form that
says good, better, best.
They don't talk about, well,what would you maybe want to do
a few years from now?
They're going, yeah, cool.
You got a bank budget, you're astartup, here's your thing,
cool.
This is a startup packet.
And I get the calls afterwardson like, well, can we go talk to
someone else?
I feel like they didn't reallylisten to me, they didn't really
ask me any questions, blah,blah, blah, blah.
Um, and my typical MO is well,one, we can always go talk to

(52:50):
someone else, but instead ofadding another element to this,
because you might just get thesame, you know, but it'll get
different.
We got the same.
Let's get them on the phone,let's talk through it.
Let's maybe you can see a littlebit of there is a method to your
madness, even when you you know,even if it was here's a startup
package, there is some of itwhich is I kind of know where
the budget is.
Uh, I kind of have an idea ofwhat you might like, and or you
may have said, here's where Iworked, so I know what they buy,

(53:12):
or here's where I went to dentalschool, I know what they have.
So I'm trying to give you kindof what you're used to.
So to give the equipment guys abreak for a second, or the
equipment reps a break for asecond, I don't think it's
really laziness, but I alsodon't find a lot that talk like
you do.
Is there any reason?
Is it just time?

SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
Okay.
It's it's harder.
It's harder.
I mean, uh, you know, everybodygets used to what they're doing.
Um, and for me, like you have totake a step back and and realize
what an effect that you'rehaving on somebody's career, and
this is the very beginning.
And I take that seriously, andthat's that's that's why I
become the startup guy is justbecause you know, it's the

(53:48):
tougher road to do my job and tomake my money to do the startup
because I have to teach 25people a year, yeah, the whole
process.
Yeah, but it's just it's justyou know, getting up in the
morning, like I can get up inthe morning knowing that I'm
helping a new doctor, likegetting up to sell a replacement
compressor doesn't really do itfor me.

SPEAKER_02 (54:05):
Doesn't do much?
You know, that's fair.
So that's fair.
Well, I would tell you then, ifI played the part up that, hey,
uh there's uh equipment reps,you know, being bad, uh, I think
that also sometimes as a rep youkind of go, well, what's the
point?
Because the doctor's just gonnarun out to Facebook and go, hey,
what do I need?
This guy or girl showed me allthis stuff, blah, blah.
And so they're sometimes theirown worst enemy as well.
100%.
Where you're kind of feelinglike, well, why am I spending a

(54:26):
lot of time educating them whenthey're just gonna run out to
Facebook, ask all these randomquestions, get all these random
answers, and then come back tome and go, Well, why don't I buy
these chairs?
They come from XYZ wherever inthe world, and uh, why don't why
don't we just buy those insteadand you're you're gonna go, I
just wasted a bunch of time.

SPEAKER_01 (54:41):
We just had a three-hour Zoom call on why.
And you went in one and blew up.
So it's not even one in and oneout.
It's like short focus, they wentout and then Squirrel.
Yeah, squirrel.
Exactly, squirrel.

SPEAKER_02 (54:53):
Okay, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 (54:54):
Um I don't I don't know.
And sometimes I, you know, notthat I have a starter pack, but
sometimes I I do probably knowwhat's going to be the end
result, but sometimes I thinkit's just as important for the
doctor to discover that throughthese questions themselves
rather than me just tell it tothem.
Okay.
Right?
Because there's a level ofaccountability to figure it out
yourself and say, yes, this isthe right decision, this is why.

SPEAKER_02 (55:17):
Okay.
Um then the next thing I thoughtabout process again, but why is
it something I see that bites alot of doctors in the butt?
I'm usually explaining this tothem on the front end, but it
can be out of sight, out ofmind, and that is most equipment
companies don't talk hand piecesuntil we get to the supplies
conversation.
Yeah.
And hand pieces can add upquickly.
They can.
And supplies and hand pieces canbe another 20, 30, 40k,

(55:39):
depending upon again, as wetalked about, the range of what
you want.
And all of a sudden they go, oh,well, I didn't account for that
or whatever.
Now, usually I'm accounting forthat, and I'm holding some money
back, and when I'm talking aboutbudget demo saying, Yeah, but we
got to save this for later whenyou do order supplies and hand
pieces.
Is that just because of the waythe setup is where the territory
reps sell the hand pieces?
Is that just purely barking?

SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
That's that's that's purely why it's and and because
uh for me, I don't have theknowledge base because it's
always been in the the territoryreps bag.

SPEAKER_03 (56:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:08):
They've got the expertise, they've got the
knowledge, they've got the handpieces.
Okay, got it.
For the hand pieces, now youknow, part of my job is as it is
with you, is that I will alwayssay, hey, doc, this is this is
our budget for core equipment.
This is what the average doctor,based off of the type uh, you
know, if if if they're goingwith electrics and this and
that, I will increase thatbudget.

(56:28):
I said, you're gonna on averagespend between anywhere from
twenty to forty thousand dollarson your startup merch order.
Yeah.
Based off of everything thatyou've told me so far, you're
closer to the 40 than the 20.
Okay.
So let's budget for it.
But that's that's the reality ofit.
There's not a great answer otherthan the fact that it's always
been in their bag.
Yeah.
So they know about it, they havethe relationships, yeah.
So they do it.
So can we as equipmentspecialists do it?

SPEAKER_02 (56:50):
Can you bring them in?
I mean, anybody that's listeningto this, if I would love to get
the Territirect involved sooner.
You know what I mean?
And I don't know what theprocess of the protocol is.
I may be making a very dumbstatement based on how your
world works.

SPEAKER_01 (57:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:03):
But I'm simply saying that that the doctors
feel some type of way about thatfeeling, I don't want to say
misled, but like, again, even ifyou brought it up in the
beginning, it is out of sight,out of mind.
I've been focusing on theconstruction project, and then
we start talking about hiringand insurance credentialing and
our marketing, and that, andthen somebody shows up and goes,
hey, I'm here to sell you allthe other stuff.
And even if I wanted to say,well, I don't really need that
much gloves, cotton rolls,whatever, they're like, Well,

(57:24):
you need hand pieces, right?
And uh yeah, well, I don'thaven't ordered those yet.
No, you haven't, because I'm theperson that sells them.
They feel like, again, hate tosay misled, but a little bit
like, well, where you been,dude.
For sure.
Sometimes they're mad at therep, sometimes they're mad at
you, sometimes they're just morelike, well, why the hell did
anybody say?
And they've even it's hard forpeople in my shoes or in your
shoes to say, Well, we did whenwe first sat down six and a
half, eight and a half monthsago.

(57:44):
They did bring it up, and that'sokay.

SPEAKER_01 (57:46):
Um I I think I think the good timeline is is once
we've received permit and we'reabout to start construction,
that's when they really neededto really dive deep into that.
Okay.
Now, depending on the rep.
Of course, depending on the rep,I will get them involved because
a lot of them are really good atwhat they do and they've done it
hundred more than I have, and Iwant them involved.

(58:08):
Other times it's like, listen, II need to focus on the core
equipment getting through thecity and everything before you
start talking about thedifference between this goop and
goo and this goop and goo.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Okay, but I but I do think thatthey a lot of them do bring
value, and I think sometimes wedo end up bringing them in a
little bit too late.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (58:26):
Um, thanks for being honest.
But yeah, no, I just I wasn'tsure because again, I you know,
I don't know how it works.
I do try and explain to doctors.
Part of the process is thosereps sell the hand pieces and
for a few different reasons.
One, it's hard to pay somebody aliving wage just selling gloves
and cotton rolls and resincomposite and stuff.
So they got to sell the handpieces because those are a part
of the a bigger ticket package.

(58:47):
Um, and you know, the otherpiece of it is that they don't
typically get involved, I think,because they there's this
version of like, we don't reallyneed me until you're about to
open.
And then it's just, but it'sthat surprise bill that comes up
that they're like, oh, well, noone said, or I didn't know, or
whatever.
Um and it's hard to go back andgo, well, we did talk about this
six months ago, and they'relike, well, I don't uh we did.
I don't know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (59:05):
It's it's it's it's one of those that it should
happen.
Does it happen?
Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (59:11):
Is the ball in the reps court?
Uh meaning like you tell them,hey, we got this account, we're
gonna do the startup, we'regonna grade, and they say, Cool,
tell me when you need me, andthen you've obviously got other
stuff going on, or is it morelike, hey man, you go make the
intro.
You're an adult, a resourceful,you know, salesperson, connect
with the doc, get yourself inthere.

SPEAKER_01 (59:27):
Depending on the doctor and depending on the rap.
Okay, so it is.
It will change depending onthose two two things, right?
On how how fast and how oftenI'm reminding them.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (59:37):
So there's there's a reminder game in there.
Okay.
I might just start asking upfront, hey, and who's the terror
tarip?
And then I can just run point onhey, by the way, Mr.
TerraTurep, Mrs.
TerrorTurep, we would love tomeet you early, we would love to
get you involved sooner.
I do think there should be anaccountability of like, and
we've made an intro, and nowyou'll you got to put us on the
calendar to follow up with us.
For sure.
You gotta put us on the calendarto check in with us.
Because the other thing that canhappen is we're Construction

(01:00:00):
gets ahead of schedule.
Things start going faster thanwe think.
And then we go, Yeah, we need toorder.
And the rep goes, Well, we needto sit down and have lunch
first.
And we're going to give you abig fat catalog.
And you're going to pick out acatalog.
And the doctor's like, what thehell is this?
And sometimes they say theF-word.
What the hell is this?
And it's like, Well, dude, youyou kind of messed yourself up
territory rep because nowthey're upset at you by bringing
them this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:20):
It's more on the equipment specialist, I'll be
honest.
Okay.
Okay.
Because we should like to dothat.
We should be bringing themearlier.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
And something that I personallytry to do is just how I'm not
everybody's cup of tea.
We have different territory,like usually within a very
specific region.
I've got three to five reps thatcan work that region that are
there often.

(01:00:40):
Yeah.
I try to match the personalityof doctor with that territory
rep to make sure that it's goingto gel.
Because yes, ultimately I couldhave them just put together the
goop and goo order and be alongtheir way.
They get paid on it.
Great.
See you later.
But if done properly, there issome major value in building
that relationship with theterritory rep.

(01:01:01):
So I want it to be a cohesive uhenvironment where that they can
grow with each other.
Okay.
So I don't want to just say, oh,you know, Billy gave me a lead
for a CT, now I owe him two newoffices.
So he lives two hours away fromthe build-out, but he might live
in San Clumini, but he's goingout to UCAIP but a you know
services.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:20):
And it's not a situation where you you get to
kind of pick and choose, as yousaid.
There isn't a version of like uhthis is your team.
You gotta pick from one of thesethree people.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:28):
Sometimes.
Sometimes it just depends on thedistributor.
Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:31):
I'm just trying to get a system on my side of my
process so I can say, hey, thisis how it works.
The fault of my side being,well, yeah, that's true for
other distributor crews, but notour crew.
And I'm like, oh crap, well,then how does your crew work?
So that's that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:43):
I've worked with a couple distributors, and so they
all were they would they work alittle bit differently.
Yeah, yeah, no, fair enough.
Fair enough.
I get it.
I get it.
So yeah, but that that issomething that the whole
equipment specialist world couldget better at is when they
involved the territory up.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:56):
Okay.
Um I did have a rapid firequestion for you on buyers.
Buyers, okay, yeah.
Yes, buying your first practice.
I find that equipment is stillvery, very important.
Um, and I find that you'retaking over that equipment and
it might be 20 years old.
And I had somebody recently lookat a practice, and the the
vacuum compressor was literallylike Frankenstein duct taped
together and zip tied up, and weneed a new one.

(01:02:16):
And we knew we need to get a newone because an equipment person
look at it.
We take a look at everything.
We need to get a new one.
It's 20 grand to get both setup.
Uh, seller's like, well, how doyou figure?
I've been using that for years.
It's like, well, that's kind ofthe point, buddy.
You've been using it for years.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:29):
And and now you're down to two days a week, exactly
not getting reps.
Exactly, yeah.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:34):
And and and heaven forbid, we do buy it.
I mean, if you were test drivinga car and the check engine light
comes on, you're going, hey, weneed to figure out why this is
on, and somebody needs to fix itto make sure it's not going to
come on when I drive off thelot.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:43):
And and honestly, like I literally had Nick, he's
my project manager.
He I had him actually go do oneat 5 30 this morning because it
always has to be before SallySue gets there in the morning or
after.
Like it's it's tough to do theseevaluations.
Um, but it's exactly what it'sexpected.
It's like, what do you want meto really tell you in the fact
that it is 30-year-old equipmentthat's past life expectancy?

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:04):
Is there anything they should look at as they take
over that practice?
Should they be looking at, like,look, because it's hard.
There's a bias in like, well, ofcourse, Ben's gonna come in and
tell me I need to buy new chairsbecause he gets commissioned
selling me chairs.
Um, you know, let's say thatthat's not true.
Let's pretend you didn't get it,make any money for selling
anything.
You might still tell them, one,you need chairs, or you might
say, no, these chairs arehalfway decent.
Doesn't mean they won't breakdown tomorrow.
Yeah.
I don't know.

(01:03:25):
Um, but where would you tellthem to focus on?
Would it be on chairs?
Would it be on vacu compressor?
Would it be on tech?

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:30):
Would it be on the I I just think they need to have
eyes wide open.
So, you know, what I would talkto Nick this morning after you
did the evaluation is is okay,are we in poor, okay, or good
condition for these differentareas?
And what that allows me to do isgive the doctor, I'm not gonna
give them, okay, this is howmuch this equipment's worth.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:45):
Of course.
Yeah, that's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:46):
That I mean, it's it's it's not it's it's worth
the value of the fact that it'salready in there.
Yeah.
That's the only value that thisthing has.
And or Hank Schroeder is gonnagive you$37 for the entire
office.
Yes, yes.
Um, but I say, okay, it's good,better, best.
This based off of the brand ofequipment, how old it is, and
how well the office took care ofit, I have a one, three,
five-year plan.
Okay.
Is this 100% accurate all thetime?

(01:04:08):
No, but you know, based off ofokay, you had 8X, it's it's 25
years old, but it's 8 EC.
So it could, it could literallylast another 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:16):
Um versus ADS equipment or dance a row, it
might only be two years old, butit's gonna 100% be replaced in
two years.
Yep.
Um, so I'd say one, be realisticabout it, right?
You're you're not blind.
Yeah.
You see that there's literallyduct tape on the chair.
Um, two is you have to look atthe the brand of equipment.
Okay.

(01:04:37):
Um and so the uh having thebudget too, if if if it's in
really poor shape, you have tomake sure you structure that
loan to where there is going tohave to be some of the and and
yes, you have five operatoriesof equipment, but uh you don't
have to buy five chairs rightnow.
Okay.
Let's replace the worst two orthe ones that you want to

(01:04:58):
replace the most and make those,and that gives you a good
blueprint for what you do whenyou do have that money.
Okay.
Um, but that that's been astruggle and a frustration of
mine when it comes toacquisitions, yeah.
Is that they will give they willpay$350,000 for the practice.
Yeah, yeah.
It needs all new equipment andtechnology.
It needs everything, yeah.
Yet the bank allows for$350,000,$50,000 working capital,$15,000

(01:05:23):
for paint and floor.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:24):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:25):
I promise you, day one, that sterilizer is gonna
break, and where's that$9,000gonna put now?

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:30):
Yeah, or the panel goes down, CBCT goes down,
vacuum compressor goes down, youcancel the week.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:35):
Yeah.
Um but going based off of that,I I had one to where um I was
just there to evaluate theequipment.
But then I noticed it was a1970s office, really weird
setup, only side delivery.
Okay, really far away from thechair, in fact, which is even
harder.
Um, but it's for right-handeddentists.

(01:05:55):
Well, I call a doctor and said,You don't happen to be
left-handed, do you?
Oh and she's like, Yeah, why?
Well, riddle me this.
How do you how are you literallygonna get these hand pieces?
And so the only way to do it wasto literally trench it in this
case, and that just can'thappen.
So it literally killed the deal,and I felt really bad because I
wasn't there to bless theoffice, I was there just to say

(01:06:16):
good, better, best.
And ended up-handed setup, yeah.
Yeah, but I mean, was I the badguy in that case to everybody
that spent hours and hours andhours on that deal?
Yes, but it was the right thingfor the doctor because if she
inked that deal and then shecomes to sit down and then
realizes her hand pieces arenine feet away on that wall,
that's a really bad day.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:37):
Yeah, I mean, that's I agree.
And I also think that if youvisit the space and you didn't
pick up on that, you should.
No, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:46):
I mean, I don't think I don't I honestly don't
think that it's the doctor'sfault in that.
No, no, I don't think thedoctor's fault.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:52):
I don't think I just don't think that when they visit
the they visit the office,they're not looking for those
things.
No, they're meeting the doctor,they're kind of getting a glance
around, they're probably going,oh, well, there's paper charts,
oh, they're not digital, okay,cool, but they're not sitting at
the chair going, oh, wait aminute.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:05):
Oh, this, oh crap, you know what I mean?
Maybe no different than like,hey, the car is great, cool.
Oh, wait a minute, it's manual?
Oh man, I didn't ever sit in thething.
You know, I didn't I didn'tactually test try because you
don't get to test try thepractice.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:15):
No, you don't you don't, and you know, if for all
the brokers and practice salesout there, yeah, yeah.
Um, if you could please, please,please, you gotta be there at
the practice at some point.
Yeah, take a three-minute videoclip.
If you're not doing a matterreport and doing whatever, take
a three-minute video clipbecause sometimes they're
they're like, Ben, I really needto do this due diligence and I'm
trying to close next week.
Well, if you're only giving mefrom 5 to 7 a.m.

(01:07:36):
one day a week or at 7 p.m.
on a Thursday, it might be acouple weeks before I can do
that.
But if you can send me a videoor you can get in there and I
can FaceTime you, or my projectmanager can, I can literally do
everything and see everything Ineed from that video or from
that FaceTime, and it's gonnamake that compress the timeline.
Yeah, for sure.

(01:07:57):
So please, please, please,videos.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:59):
Well, on that note, anything else you want to add?
Any mistake you see made,anything you're really excited
about?
Um contractors.
Okay.
I don't know.
I mean, we don't have time forit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's a lot.
That's a lot.
Yeah.
But I I would I would say if Icould get one contractor in
here, I would, but everycontractor's got a different
version.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:15):
Oh, well, everybody's got a different
version.
Um I I would just say, you know,lean lean on you, lean on the
equipment specialists tounderstand they know the
position, the type of officethat you're trying to build in
the location.
Got it.
The equipment specialist, youyou know the major players.
You can narrow down the majorplayers.

(01:08:36):
Um, and just because I like twoor three contractors doesn't
mean that I'm going to recommendthem every time because maybe I
have insider Intel that theyjust signed ink three big deals
and you're gonna get put on theback burner.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:47):
Yep, very true.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:48):
Right?
So lean on your local resourcesto kind of help you narrow it
down.
And then once you do narrow itdown, too many times they'll
take it for granted, say, okay,yeah, you know, the contractor
said everything's in that bid.
No, sit down with your plan.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:04):
Yeah, smart.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:05):
With the contractor, walk through the plan, walk
through the itemized deal, andsay, what is included?
Show me what's included.
Yeah.
Um, because that's where youalso lights, door schedules,
everything throws what what thethe ceiling grid's made out of
to the baseboard.
They're like, well, this ischeap ass baseboard.
Well, that's their standard.
That's why we need to talk aboutit.

(01:09:26):
Yep.
Um so really spend some time onthat.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:30):
Okay.
That's good.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:32):
Uh everybody can find you on social media.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:34):
Yep.
Social media, would you like todo that?
So Ben Oliver Dental.
Uh Instagram is Ben OliverDental.
Okay, great.
Uh my Pinterest is BOliver1835.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:42):
That's got to get a lot of hits.
Love that Pinterest board.
It's I even see stuffrecommended to me on Pinterest
that you have tagged, and Ilaugh.
Because I also see stuff thatlike uh ADAC has or DCI has or
such and such architect has, andthen I'll see like Ben Oliver
likes this, you might like thistoo.
Uh I find this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:58):
I yeah, I not everything on Pinterest, I did.
Let's just be real.
But that's that's where I get alot of my my hits.
And um so those are the two uhtwo deals.
That's those are the two areasyou can find me.
But um it's just find your teamand trust, trust, trust the
team.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:17):
I mean, that's I find it interesting that you go
through the process, you buildthe team, you try to you work,
talk to people about the team,blah, blah, blah, blah, and then
you'll go ask a group ofstrangers.
Hey, what do you think aboutthis?
This guy told me this, and thenthat group of strangers, of
course, is gonna have their ownopinions, their own input from
their perspective, from theirlens, etc.
And so if you know different,you know, if I uh I can go ask

(01:10:38):
some of the people I grew upwith, where do you want to go
for dinner tonight?
They would say McDonald's.
I can go ask some of the peoplethat I uh, you know, know now,
and they might say, Oh, we'regonna go to a nice dinner or a
work dinner, we're gonna go toMastros.
Okay, great.
But the perspectives are vastlydifferent, and the experiences
at dinner will be vastlydifferent, and the people are
vastly different.
You're gonna go ask a group ofstrangers, hey, what do you
think?
And you have no idea how theypractice dentistry, what they

(01:10:59):
believe about the world, wherethey are in the world, what
their budget was.
I I see that a lot on Instagram,by the way.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:05):
And you also see the good things, you don't see the
everything that went down.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:08):
I see folks on Instagram saying, I'm a startup
and I'm crushing it, yada yada,and and it they're not giving
you the full perspective, not somuch the bad things.
Uh let's say that everything'sgoing well for them, which I
believe there's a lot of thatgoing on.
Yeah.
But they're not telling you howmuch they actually spent.
Because you and I look at it, weknow a lot of people.
I know some prominent Instagramfigures that are like, hey, I
did a startup and listen to meand how I did it.

(01:11:30):
Uh, but what they're not tellingyou is that, like, yeah, the
bank gave them this loan andthen they borrowed this much
money from mom and dad, spouse,whoever.
100%.
And so you're not gonna do theirstartup.
And I don't even know if that'slike, yes, it is a startup, but
I go back to when I was 16, mydad was like, I don't care if I
owned a car dealership, you'regetting a used car.
Okay.
Yeah.
I had buddies getting brand newBMWs, and I was like, I kind of

(01:11:52):
I don't I wish I had that goingon in my life, but that was
never gonna be my life.
Yeah.
And so we weren't in the samelane at 16 years old.
And there's a lot of people thatare like, well, we're all doing
startups.
Yeah, but some people are doingit with mom and dad's money.

unknown (01:12:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:04):
That's that's that's so true.
It's I've done it more oftenthan not.
And that's honestly, those arefun because you get to build
Detaj Mother.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:12):
There is no budget, man.
Let's go.
Let's go.
All right.
Well, but so social media, uh,Instagram, Pinterest, uh, any
anywhere else they can find you.
They don't have to, just saying.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:22):
No, I mean you're good.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:24):
Instagram, DM you, blow up your DMs, ask a bunch of
questions.
Do it.
Or be in Southern Cal.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:29):
Be in Southern Cal, that's all I do is is Southern
Cal.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:31):
So Okay, cool.
Um, well, thank you, man.
I appreciate you being here.
This is fun.
I could have gone on one, yeah.
Um, but you know, but we all gotshit to do.
So appreciate it.
Thanks, man.

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