The Dental Lease Playbook: TI Allowances, Abatement & Avoiding Rookie Mistakes

Before you build ops or pick paint, you need to nail your lease. In this episode of From Dentist to De Novo, host Jonathan Miller sits down with David Groce of CARR to demystify the first—and most expensive—step of practice ownership. We break down usable vs. rentable SF, the difference between build-out period (rent commencement) and rent abatement (free rent after opening), and why a true tenant-only rep changes your leverage. David explains NNN vs. CAM vs. full-service, how TI allowances really get approved (hello, lenders), and why “my friend got $80/sf on Facebook” is not a strategy. We cover multi-LOI courtship, zoning checks, when to talk to the bank vs. broker, and how to stretch your runway so your marketing can catch up before rent hits. If you’re starting up or relocating, this is your crash course in negotiating like an owner.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Well, welcome back to the podcast from Dentist to
DeNovo.
I'm your host, Jonathan Miller,and I've got somebody really
special with me today, somebodythat focuses on, in my opinion,
the very first step that everysingle practice owner should
take, whether you're starting apractice or buying, but you need
to understand your lease.
So I've got David with me.
I'll let him explain where he'sfrom and what he's about.

(00:21):
David Gross, take it away,

SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
man.
Hi, I'm David Gross with CarrHealthcare Realty.
We're a nationwidehealthcare-specific commercial
real estate company and we focuson helping doctors with their
practice needs on the tenant andbuying side.
So what that means is you'llnever see a sign driving down
the street.
You'll always see usrepresenting doctors.

(00:45):
We feel like that the fiduciaryinterest or your best interest
is by having a representationthat's solely involved with, you
know, with 100% non-tainted orunbiased representation.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
Right.
You're helping the tenant or thebuyer.
Correct.
Not the landlord.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
That's absolutely

SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
right.
Not ever.
Correct.
Big difference, though, comparedto the big guys out there,
right?
Absolutely.
I mean, the CBREs and the JonesLang LaSalle's and the Newmark's
and I don't even know who thebiggest

SPEAKER_00 (01:20):
of the big are anymore.
90% of the world of commercialreal estate is in the tenant
buyer world.
And of that 90%, the industry isbuilt on landlord or seller
representation because if youthink about it, that's an
annuity for those brokers.
Thus, if you had to pick who amI going to work with or if I

(01:41):
want to have this guy representboth of us, you can't really
have fair or independentrepresentation because they're
always going to, human nature,lean towards the guy with the
more properties and annuities tocome.
It's just human nature.
So

SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
you're saying, hey, if I'm a traditional broker,
let's say, or agent, I might beinfluenced by the guy saying,
hey, Jonathan, look, cut me abreak on this lease you're
trying to negotiate for olddoctor so-and-so because I'll
let you sell this$5 millionbuilding down the street that I
also own and that's a heck of alot better payday.
Absolutely.
And if I'm a listing agent and atenant leasing agent, if you

(02:17):
will, if I can do both sides,I'm probably going to be
influenced by that$5 millionpayday.
That's right.
You guys can't get influencedlike that.
100%.

SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Because our business is driven just like doctors are
and that's the referralbusiness.
Got it.
So, our skin in the game is tohit it out of the park for the
doctors in order to earn thereferral, just like they do with
their patients to keep thebusiness growing.
And so I've been a car almostnine years now.
And how do you say that half ofmy business is, is, uh, I find

(02:46):
through past clients.
Right.
And just like with our doctors,you know, their, their patient
bases grow with their patients,referring them to other, other
patients.

SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
So out of the veterinarians that you work
with, the dentist that you workwith, and then you, when you You
say doctors, MDs of the world,more dermatologists.
Plastic surgeons.
Plastic surgeons, okay.
Pediatricians.
So out of those three groups,which one's the biggest pain in
your...
No, I'm teasing.
I'm not giving you that.
No.
So what about, though, in termsof pain in your butt, on the, I
don't want to say broker side,but on the listing agent side.

(03:17):
Sure.
Right?
We're dealing with a group ofpeople that obviously is heavily
incentivized to essentiallyeither sell the building or get
you to lease it and kind of whatI would say, yes, man it.
Lock you up, too.
Lock you up.
Lock you up.
And so on that side of thehouse, I never really thought
about this, but is it better tohave an agent to work with or

(03:38):
would you rather deal directlywith the owner of said space?

SPEAKER_00 (03:41):
I would rather.
Well, that's a great question.
And that's a question that'scase based.
Uh, that's building andsituational dependent.

SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
Fair.

SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Um, if I'm working in a big office building in Los
Angeles or a medical building, Iwant to deal with the brokers
directly.
Okay.
Um, if I'm working, uh, with abuilding that's, uh, maybe got a
dentist and a nail salon in it,you know, maybe on that
instance, I want to deal withthe landlord directly because I
can move to the fastest point,um, or move the deal along

(04:14):
faster for the doctor.
Um, so I've I find that thebest, these larger buildings
with larger representations, Ilike to call that spreadsheet
negotiation.
The bigger the entities or thebigger the companies we work
with, you're never dealing withthe people that own it.
And typically those arecompanies that own it.
You're dealing with employeesthat work for a corporation.

(04:37):
There's no emotion to that.
You've got to be moresophisticated.
You have to be able to runthrough projections and
analysis.
you also have to be on your toesand know the ins and the outs.
You know, differences betweenusable square feet, rentable
square feet, little tricks ofthe trade people can get taken

(04:59):
advantage of or tripped up onreally easily.
And I think the landlords alsoin those situations prefer
having someone that knows how tocommunicate just like a dentist
speaks to maybe their ceramic,ceramist.
You know, the wording, the whatdo I need?
I need this here and there,right?
I need a little porcelain here.

(05:21):
It's the same kind of lingo andthings move in a manner because
of the professionalism.
When you're dealing with alandlord that's the owner of a
small building, it's their baby.
It's like their house.
It's just like dealing with Dr.
Schelling.
Correct.
It's emotional.
And in that situation, you wantsomeone that knows what they're

(05:42):
doing, but as well knows how tofinesse that landlord because
that is their their personalasset or their baby.
And then I think at the end ofthe day, doctors need
representation from someone thatknows dentistry, right?
That knows why they need, why doI need this amount of power?

(06:05):
Why do I need this amount of airconditioning?
When are the busy times?
When are the not so busy timesin a dental office?
Where most people, the layman'sin the dental world don't know
that stuff

SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
very true very true now you had said something in
there um about understandingdentistry and you've been a car
nine years but you're kind of adouble threat because you had a
career before car yeah that wasin the dental equipment

SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
game that's correct how many years you're in that
i've uh so i was at pattersondental as an equipment
specialist for almost nine yearsas well there so so the game now
almost 18 that's correct it'snot age ourselves but

SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
that's right we remember 90s cartoons

SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
that's correct yeah yeah so i started when i was 25
and i'm in my mid 40s yeah soyou know I've been through
recessions I've been through thegreat recession I've been
through ups and downs with themarket I've been through new
technologies developed I've seenit and we'll have more to come

(07:04):
and you know more things happenin life but what we do know is
dentistry is pretty resilientand and the business keeps
rocking on and moving on andyeah rewards those that invest
in their in their practice Fair

SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
enough.
When you had said there'ssomething to know about rentable
versus usable, that's key.
I'm going to ask you two otherones to kind of just really dumb
down for me and really thelistener here.
When I'm talking about, youknow, a lot of folks don't
understand this from the dentalstandpoint.
Hey, I know I need free rent,but I don't know how much time I
need.
And then there's this, well,there's rent abatement or

(07:38):
there's free rent or there'sconstruction period time, or
there's effective dates versuscommencement dates.
So the question then is, hey,standard dental office, what's
the we'll call it, I don't know,2,000 square foot build out,
blah, blah, blah, tenant leasespace scenario.
You're going to negotiateconstruction time and free rent,
and they're not necessarily thesame.
Is that right?
That's 100% correct.
Okay, so is it rent abatementthat I need to focus on?

(08:00):
Is it the language that I needto make sure that said agent
says, hey, I need constructionperiod time as well?
Or how does that work?
100%.
So let's break it down,

SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
right?
And I always talk to doctors,let's treatment plan it.
Just like, let's think about ithow we would with a patient.
When we have a projectconstruction project, it takes
time.
It takes planning.
It takes design.
It takes architectural, meaningyou've got to get that design
ready to go to the city.
You have city permitting,whether if you're in California,

(08:29):
it could be five months.
Or if you're in Texas, it couldbe a month.
It depends on where you're at inthe United States.
So you have to look at the totalproject and then how much
construction time do I need?
Is it 90 days?
Is it 120?
Et cetera.
What's the scope of that?
So what we do is we look at thatwith our clients and we say,
okay, it's going to take youfive months for build out and

(08:50):
two to three months in the city.
So that's eight months.
So now we've got to figure out,hey, I've got to solve for eight
months before the doctor caneven spend their first hand
piece and see their firstpatient.
So what we do is we, what I callis a build out period or in a
legal terminology, rentcommencement.
There's a period of time beforeyour actual lease will start or

(09:11):
the rent will commence that Iwould call a build out period
with a doctor.
And we try to stretch that aslong as possible, but within
market reasoning or beingreasonable and fair because
that's how you get a deal.
And so if it's, let's say we'rein Southern California and it's
going to take us 10 months fromthe day we have a designer drop

(09:33):
the first plan until the day Istart seeing my first patient,
we're going to build that intowhat's called a rent
commencement period or build outperiod.
So we're going to try tonegotiate 10 months free for
build out

SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
Build-out period, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (09:47):
And correct.
And we like to negotiate fromthe power of truth.
So we say, because of volumeexperience, we say, hey, we're
in Pasadena.
We see it taking this amount oftime based upon these last
projects in the last 24 months.
Therefore, Mr.
Landlord, we're not trying topush you around.
It's just this is reality.

(10:09):
So we negotiate on reality andtruth.
We get 10 months free forbuild-out or 11 months, whatever
it is, whatever city we're in.
Okay.
Then on top of that, we knowthat our most successful
practices usually have three tofive months or more of free rent
after they open.
So we're trying to negotiate forour startup or our newer doctors

(10:29):
moving that free rent.
So we had 10 months free forbuild out.
Then the office opens.
Then we want five months freeafter that or three months or
whatever we can negotiate forour doctors to get their feet
underneath them, to get theirmarketing going, get social
media going.

UNKNOWN (10:46):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
And patients in the door.
Because we know that there's upsand downs on building that
patient base.
And

SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
that rent after the construction period, is that the
rent abatement period?
That is the rent abatementperiod.
Because I know sometimes I seeterm sheets or deal sheets or
LOIs or whatever.
And I don't necessarily know if,you know, similar to treatment
plans.
Yeah.
It's funny because I know Iwould love for some universal
language or some uniformity tothings.
But just like a dentist, I cango get two different treatment

(11:13):
plans right now.
They both are for a crown.
But one office has$2740 inprice.
and one says five otherprocedure codes in price.
And I'm going, how do I compare?
So when I look at differentones, I'm focused on a lot of
times people call outrenovatement period, might say
three months or five months.
And I'm going, well, where's thepart where we're building this
thing?
We're just going to call that.
I just need to ask constructionperiod.
Those listening say, hey,where's my construction period

(11:35):
time?
Because you can't just have athree to five month renovatement
and think

SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
goody.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
So I like to talk to our clients.
It's a runway.
We're going to build a runwayand your practice is the plane
going to take off.
We need the longest runway aspossible.
So we want to stretch the freerent for construction or the
abatement, I'm sorry, thecommencement period, build out
period, if you want to think ofit like that.
Stretch that out, 10 months.
Then, technically, if we getinto really down in the weeds,

(12:03):
you have your first month on anylease, you prepay, no matter
where you go in the UnitedStates.
So you prepay your first month,and then your rent commences,
and we're trying to negotiatethose months after that as free
period so that you can get yourfeet underneath you.
And that's what we'd call therenovate.
Got it.
Got it.
And, uh, things are slowlybuilding and moving and off you

(12:27):
go.
I

SPEAKER_01 (12:27):
know some landlords like to give you like, look,
I'll give you two months freeright at the beginning after,
you know, after commencementdate.
And then I'll give you anothertwo months free, maybe 12 months
in.
Correct.
And then I'll give you, is itkind of potato potato or are you
really trying to get all thatfront loaded as best you can?
So it depends on who you are.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
And there's a reason behind it.
If you're been in practice for20 years and you're you're
financially secure and you'rebuilding your dream office,
you're moving, expanding, etcetera, maybe not having that
free rent or rent abatement upfront

SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
matters.

SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
If you think about it in a math equation, your rent
goes up two to 3% annually,maybe 4%, depending where you're
at in the country.
If your free rent is pushedfarther back into the lease
term, it's actually worth moremoney than taking it all on the
front side.
However, our startups need asmuch help as they can as fast as
they can.

(13:16):
we try to pull as much as thatforward as possible.

SPEAKER_03 (13:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:21):
The flip side too for landlords is we just
negotiated all this free rent,10 months for build out.
Of course.
Three to five months free forafter they move.
Now they are 12, 13 months inwith no money.
They want money coming back ontheir investment.
So that's why they'll negotiateand push it farther out.

SPEAKER_01 (13:39):
We forgot to mention the TI allowance that you wanted
as well.
So at some point the landlord'sgoing, geez, Louise, dude, cut
me some slack here.
Absolutely.
And so Let's play devil'sadvocate for one second.
Yeah.
Because I find that there's, Isee, I hear, and I'm around
conversations between doctor andsomeone like yourself.
Yeah.
Terms have come back.
We submitted LOI.
By the way, I'm a big fan ofsubmitting a handful of LOIs.

(13:59):
Absolutely.
Is that a fair strategy?
A hundred percent.
Because I kind of look at itlike, hey, there's a courtship
period.
Yes.
I'm going to, for better orworse, I'm going to have to ask
a few people to go to the danceand see which one kind of gives
me the best offer.
Correct.
Because I do make an analogy alot as a startup doctor.
Hey, you're kind of the bell ofthe ball.
You've got a little bit ofleverage right now.
Absolutely.
Kind of maybe a golden ticket,so to speak.
So landlords want to talk toyou.
Banks would love to talk to you.

(14:20):
There's a lot of folks that-

SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
They always get better deals than the guys have
been in the building for 20years.

SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
Perfect.
Great.
So straight from the expert'smouth.
100% they do.
So now on the flip side, though,when I'm in those conversations,
you know, doctor would be like,well, why don't we get 50 bucks
in TI or 60 bucks in TI or 70bucks in TI?
And you're thinking, well, I'dlove to give it to you.
However, we just went to thelandlord with, let's just call
it six months of free rent plusanother three months of rent
abatement.
So nine months total.

(14:45):
Correct.
They made nothing but- So let'scall that, I don't know, 10,000
bucks.
And we also ask them for 50bucks in TI.
Let's just round some numbershere and say that's another 100
grand that we want from them.
And so between those two things,we might be going to them with a
$250,000 financial request.
That's easily.
Yeah, easily.
And so no wonder the landlord'sgoing, look, I'm not going past
50 bucks in TI.

(15:07):
I don't care if your buddy got70 a square foot right down the
street.
That's a$250,000 requestalready.
Am I thinking about that right?

SPEAKER_00 (15:13):
You're absolutely thinking about it.
And just like with a patient,There's no anatomy that's the
same in these deals, right?
Every deal, these are not cookiecutter.
So you can get on social media,on a Facebook group and go, oh,
my friend in Texas got$80 afoot, but I'm in Los Angeles and
I'm only getting$60 a foot.
That's not right.
What you have to understand isevery deal is either financed or

(15:38):
budgeted.
These are all one big mathequations.
A lot of these buildings arefinanced commercially with
lenders.
A lot of doctors don'tunderstand is that the banks on
some of these larger projectshave to approve the offer going
out the door to the

SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
tenant.
I've seen somebody recently say,hey, the bank just asked us on
your TI allowance payment, theyneeded another document from the
contractor.
And I was like, oh, they saidthe bank needs another document,
not the landlord.
So I found that interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
Especially in the post-COVID world, you've had
landlords that, especially insome general office buildings,
which can sometimes be greatopportunities for people now
that you've got banks payingattention more because there's
some vacancy perhaps.
And they're going to monitorwhat is possible, right?

(16:27):
So sometimes doctors say, well,I see a lot of vacancies out
there because people work fromhome or they're hybrid.
Well, yes and no.
Maybe the bank's now overseeingthat.
Maybe it's not a foreclosure,but the bank is monitoring
what's going on.
Maybe you can't get$100 a foot.
Maybe they've only got$60 a footfinanced or they've got a line

(16:47):
of credit.
So a lot of landlords aredrawing on lines of credits.
I always say the richest arerich, always use other people's
money.
Very true.
So in the same scenario forlandlords, they're usually all
borrowing money or having linesof credit on these buildings.
Also, you have to understand,going back to big landlords
versus small landlords, mom andpops don't always have the

(17:09):
money.
It could be a family that ownsit, the parents are older, and
they're having to take a HELOCor a line of credit out on their
house just to get a tenant.
So at that, at that stance, youmay have to say, I'm only going
to get free rent for two yearsversus, you know, a hundred
thousand dollars.
Yeah.
So every situation's different.
You just have to know.

SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
You made me think of something there about landlords
versus developers.
So like in pockets, Texas, let'ssay, I see a lot of projects
that are coming up and there arecertain situations where I think
we're, you know, the doctor'sreally negotiating with the
developer on the deal.
Is that better or worse?
Just depends.

SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
It It all depends.
They could be like going, whatwere you saying?
They could be negotiating withthe developer and the bank.

SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
Right.
Um, maybe the developer doesn'twant to give you a 50, 60 bucks.

SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
Yeah.
And we work, you know, my part,business partner and I, we work
in multiple States.
Um, in Texas, you may get a, ashopping center space delivered
to you with no concrete slab.

SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
Right.
And you have to be aware ofgoing, okay, concrete slabs
going to cause me an additionalmakeup, not five, 10 bucks a
foot.
Yep.
Yep.
Um, Versus in SouthernCalifornia, every new space may
have a slab delivered.
In Southern California, the ACmay go on the roof.
Where in Texas, it may go behindthe building.
So you just have to know themarkets and the situations.

(18:31):
Yeah, fair.
You really need to make sure alot of doctors will, especially
young doctors, will do this onthe weekends.
They'll go around and drivearound.
They'll see a bunch of spacesthey like.

SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
Yeah, what the hell?
I

SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
saw a bunch of spaces.
You're telling me there'snothing on the market.
That's right.
But they'll also start callingthe brokers.
So what happens?
Yeah.
Yeah.
They call the brokers.
Um, do you generally in theweekends, most brokers won't
return their phone calls.
Yeah.
They call them back on Mondayand the doctors, uh, falling
kind of, uh, Charlotte's web ofsales tactics where it's like,
Oh yeah, we got a space.

(19:04):
So I've got another dentistlooking at that.
And the doctor's like, Oh no, Ilike that space.
Right.
And it's the hurry up.
They get in a hurry.
They have the broker, thelandlord submit an LOI to them,
not knowing what's going on.
And The next thing they knowthey're two or three rounds deep
and they're asking for help.
And a lot of times it's toolate.
The landlords won't let themhave help at that point.

SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Yeah.
I've seen that.
I've seen it.
Just you're too far gone.
Like you kind of already madeyour bed here.
We got to sleep in it or we canwalk away always, but not a
whole lot left.
That's right.
Someone like you can do

SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
besides.
We're your attorney, right?
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
No, wait, before you go into that, let me ask you
this.
I know you have young children.
How old's your youngest?

SPEAKER_00 (19:43):
She is

SPEAKER_01 (19:44):
six.
Okay.
So six.
So, My oldest is seven.
My youngest is five.
So right in that sweet spot,let's think about, I'm thinking
about my five-year-old rightnow.
We'll think about yoursix-year-old.
Maybe your six-year-old's very,very well adapted.
You said she, so those girls do,they grow faster.
That's right.
They're better than us guys,I'll tell you that.
So explain to me this thingaround triple net versus cam

(20:07):
versus full service.
So I don't want to lose thistrain of thought.
I want to know, you know, ifwe're talking about rentable
versus usable, we're talkingabout TI allowances going into
the deal and those things.
For the listeners, They've heardsome of these terms before, so
let's help them understand ifyou had to explain it to a
six-year-old or a five-year-old,triple net versus CAM versus
full service.

SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
Absolutely.
So we'll start with the mostpopular, I think, in the United
States.
Our listeners may be everywhere.
A triple net lease is an NNN ifyou see it on LoopNet or various
other places online.
And usually the three componentsof the triple nets are taxes,
insurance, and common areaexpenses or operating expenses.

SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
How the hell did they come up with triple net as
a name?

SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Taxes, insurances, and the

SPEAKER_00 (20:52):
third one was?
That's how I think about thethree basic fundamentals of a
triple net.
Okay.
So you're going to have propertytaxes for the building or the
shopping center, propertyinsurance for the center, and
then what we call common area oroperating expenses.
That's going to be security,property management.

(21:14):
Snow removal in certain parts ofthe world.
Landscaping.
Landscaping, watering, securityif you're in an urban area.
Yeah, what's

SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
that?
They call that somethinginteresting in a lease.
They don't call it security.
They call it like not apatrolman.
I saw this recently on a lease.
It was almost like an Englishterm for Bobby or something like
that.
They called it something, and ittook me a second.
And the doctor was like, what'sthat?
I'm like, I'm not sure what thatis.
Security.
It was basically just a guy topatrol, walk the parking lot,
whatever.
Yeah, okay.
Security, yeah.
That all goes into that

SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
last.
Correct.
Property management.
So management is a big componentof that.
And that's, that's landlords payto have someone obviously, uh,
operating or managing theshopping center and kind of
managing all the tenants andtheir needs.
Yeah.
Um, that is the most common, Ibelieve lease structure in the
United States.

(22:06):
Okay.
Um, you know, we're inCalifornia.
We see that more in shoppingcenters and retail developments.
If you go to other parts of thecountry, it could be on every
type of building.
Okay.
Um, It's just the structure, theway that everything passes
through and then to the tenants.
And then typically each month,the tenant will receive their

(22:28):
triple net expense.

SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
Kind of like an invoice.
Correct.

SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
I guess this is what it was.
Their share for their squarefootage of this.

SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
Pro-rated based on their square footage.
100%.
And most people think of leasesin terms of base rent.
And a lot of folks get caught upand go, well, what's this extra
five or seven or 10 bucks asquare foot?
Correct.
That's your triple net.
And it also could be your cam.

SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
So what doctors will do when they call around or
they'll get on LoopNet andthey'll say, and if people don't
know what LoopNet is, that isthe- Don't tell them.
It's a dangerous place.
You can Google it.
Yeah, exactly.
But brokers will quote you andthey'll say, so if you're in
California, they'll give you anumber of like$3 per square
foot.

(23:09):
If you're in Texas, that's goingto be on a yearly number.

SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Yes.
So

SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
that's a whole nother thing.
And everywhere but California tomy knowledge, everything is
quoted on yearly numbers.
So in Texas, it could be$36 persquare foot.
That's right.
In California, it's$3.
Yes.
It's all the same divided by

SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
12.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
So it's just something unique that we do in
California that they don't do inthe rest of the country.
Yeah.
But with that being said,they'll quote you, hey, your
rent is$3 per square foot,triple net.
And the doctor's like, cool.
And they hang up, right?
I'm

SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
doing the math to 2,000 square feet, 3 bucks per
square foot.
6,000 bucks.
That's easy.
I can afford that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
But what the broker didn't tell you or what he
failed to leave out was there'sstill another$1 in triple nets.
So now that$3 became$4 persquare foot or 8,000.
So it went up$2,000 withoutasking that question.

SPEAKER_03 (24:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Even as a broker, been doing it forever, they will
just say, yep,$3 nets.
What does that mean?
So you've got to really deep andpry into it.
If you're working with people...
know the tricks, not the tricks,but just having to do it every
day, they'll say, okay, well,what are the nets?

SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Oh, the nets are a dollar.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
See, they know those things.
Correct.
But they're trying to just,

SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
yeah.
They're trying to market theirspace to being more affordable.
They want you to come in, fallin love with the center or the
building, and where you wantwill go look at anything else.
Yeah.
A lot of times we've seendoctors go in and get a space
plan from a designer, burn threeor four months only to find out,
oh, there's a triple netinvolved.

SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
Burn three or four months plus burn, I mean, I
don't want to speak for alldesigners, but 10 grand minimum
to have a designer look atsomething and lay it out for
you.
And it's usually more like 15 or20.
Correct.
So in that regard, do you think,and I think this is true for
both Triple Nets and Kansas, youcan tell me if I'm wrong, your
residential person, yourresidential agent, do they have
to worry about that or theywould never even think to talk
about

SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
that?
They would never even know toask that.
Big problem.
You know what I mean?
It's just not something that,you know, I would look at
residential commercials twodifferent worlds.
Fair enough.
Most commercial brokers don'twork in the residential world
and vice versa.
So I couldn't tell you that I'mthe expert by any means on

(25:26):
selling or buying a house.
I would personally, I still tothis day, having done over 300
commercial transactions, I stilluse a residential agent.
I don't want to mess somethingup.
I want to make sure I do thiscorrectly.
It's a lot of money.
So with that being said, yes,residential agents, there's a
High likelihood they'll missthat.

(25:47):
I think you'd even miss

SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
it if you've done a couple commercial deals as a
residential agent.
Because I find the folks thatare like, hey, well, my cousin,
my uncle, my brother, whatever,they've done this and they've
done a few commercial deals.
So it's okay, great.
Maybe all the commercial dealswere full service leases.
Or with a mom and pop landlord.
Or with a mom and pop, right?
And so walk me then through CAM.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
yeah.
So we have triple nets and thenwe have full service gross is
what FSG stands for.
That's probably the easiest one,right?
And

SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
that's because it's everything included in that.

SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
Correct.
That's the way I look at it isWhen I'm looking and I see the
doctor's water, trash, notethat's not medical trash or
sharps, that sort of thing.
Cleaning, if it says any sort ofjanitorial, like, hey, this is

(26:35):
definitely, especially my waterand electricity are included,
could be a full service.
And then air conditioning.
That's all included, right?
So if they

SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
said...
Five bucks a square foot, fullservice gross, then that's
everything.

SPEAKER_00 (26:48):
That's soup to nuts, right?
What that may not include isparking, internet, internet, oh,
your insurance.
You got to have insurance,right?
Yeah, that's fair, yeah.
Cable, whatever.
You know what I mean?
Fair enough.
But that to me is what you, fullservice gross is what you see in
medical buildings or officebuildings.

(27:10):
To see that in a shoppingcenter, highly unlikely in my
experience.
So feather in the cap, though.
nod towards the medical

SPEAKER_01 (27:17):
building.
Correct.
For that particular reason.
Or an office building.
Or an office building.
Okay.
Correct.
So how about CAMs?
Because CAM is like this, it'sthe triple net, but it's called
CAM.

SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
Yeah.
And depending on where you're atand the age of the person you're
dealing with, CAMs and triplenets can be sometimes used as
the same, could be a differentacronym.
Could be just a daggone leasetemplate they have.
Correct.
Could be parts of the countryyou're working in.
You could be working with aresidential agent who's leasing

(27:45):
their friend's building, it getskind of intermingled.
But when we see the word CAM ina professional commercial real
estate world, generally weassociate that with a full
service gross or a modifiedgross.
And I'm going to get really deepin the weeds, but then you have
a base year.
So you have a base year attachedto gross leases.

(28:05):
Okay.
And what comes out of the baseyear as time goes on is CAM
charges.
Okay.
CAM stands for?
Common, I may have this wrong,common area maintenance.
That's what I've always heard.
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (28:15):
Right.
So common area maintenance.
Yeah.
And then you're telling me thatI have a base year, meaning that
my rent is

SPEAKER_00 (28:21):
five bucks a square foot.
Yeah.
So you'd have a baseline.
So let's say we're in 2025.
I sign my lease and I have a2000.
You wouldn't want to do this,but let's for easy purposes say
I have a 2025 base year.
My next year in the lease is2026.

(28:41):
At the end of 2026, they'llreconcile.
The landlord will go back andlook at their books, look at all
the expenses for the center, andthey'll say, okay, tenant David
was on a 2025 base year.
In 2026, our expenses went uptwo cents per square foot.
And so they'll reconcile, andthe doctor pays the difference.

SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Now, you can always ask for a copy of this stuff.
100%.

SPEAKER_00 (29:06):
It's in your legal right to do it.
Sometimes you have to pushlandlords, property managers.
I always think about, I alwaystell our clients, to you have to
a lot of times doctors firstinitial impression is just a
pound property managers propertymanagers have tough jobs they're
they're trying to keep thelandlords happy they're trying

(29:27):
to keep their tenants happy theydon't want people to leave
because the landlord's going toget mad at them but they also
the landlords don't want to letthe tenants run wild so right
they're the i would say they'rethe wardens of the prison yeah
and their job is to keep theprisoners all in check yeah yeah
um but they also have a prettytough job they all they make a
lot of mistakes.
They can easily makemathematical mistakes.

(29:50):
So yes, it's in your legal rightto be able to audit those.
I would advise bringing in anaccountant or an attorney,
someone that knows what they'redoing to help you look at those
because they can easily bemessed up from the landlord's
side and it can also be easilymisunderstood from the tenant's
side.

SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
Which takes me to something that you...
I'll give you something that Isee in the industry that is a
common misconception or amistake or something that I see
doctors make all the time.
It and maybe I'm hearing it andthey don't actually do it, but I
get a lot of like, well, myattorney's just gonna do this
stuff.
So like, David seems like a niceguy.
Don't need him though, becausemy attorney's got my back and

(30:27):
they're gonna do it.
And they're gonna, I know I haveto have them because they're
gonna negotiate the lease forme.
So Jonathan, why would I need aDavid?
I don't think I need a David.
That's right.
That's

SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
right.
Great question.
Something that we see, we sawmore so 10, 15 years ago, I
think as...
the world of having buyer andtenant representation from the
healthcare side, whether it'sCarr or various other people
across the country that do agood job.
We've kind of trained the marketin general that you do need

(30:58):
commercial brokers and you doneed an attorney.
We 100% advocate working inconjunction.
I want every one of my clientsto have an attorney and they
should have an attorney.
Review the legality of the leaseand to tell them and look for
pitfalls in that lease.
Attorneys work in the legalspace all day.

(31:19):
They don't work in the trenchesis what I'd say.
They're not out showing spaces.
They're not conversating withbrokers.
They don't know market trends.
For instance, let's use Texas orLos Angeles or wherever you're
at.
You can have micro climates ormicro markets where in Beverly

(31:39):
Hills, it's$7 per square foot.
And you could be in Torrance andit could be$3 per square foot or
Plano and Dallas, et cetera,right?
So you just have to know themarkets that you're in and you
have various, it's just like aneighborhood.
You can have expensive homes andnot so expensive homes.
I love, so let's put the caveathere.

(32:03):
I love attorneys.
I want our attorneys evolved.
If you're paying your attorneythree to$500 an hour to go on
LoopNet and to look up rates,that is not the right use.
of their time.
And I know probably there'll besome attorneys out there that
would be glad, happy to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (32:21):
Yeah, of

SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
course.
I will for 500 bucks an hour.
Yeah, for 500 bucks an hour, whynot, right?
I think the 100% best way torepresent and to take care of
people is to have two teams ofpeople.
Commercial brokers, generally inthe United States, don't charge
for representation.
They're going after the landlordor the seller for a commission.

(32:43):
So why not have someone thatknows what they're doing
represent you and then bring inyour trusted, hopefully dental
specific attorney to representyou on the, the, either the
lease or the transactional sideof that equation.
Right.
I

SPEAKER_01 (32:58):
kind of explain it in simplest terms.
Your attorney is going to focuson the legal aspects and your
broker is going to focus on theeconomic ones, the financial
ones, right?
You go to the bank and you havea bank account and you bank with
such and such bank USA, butthey're also not your stock
trader.
They're not in the weeds.
They're not following thatstuff.
They're not looking at wealthmanagement.
Let's say, and you might evenhave a personal banker and this
and that, but they don't reallyknow the market that well.

(33:20):
Correct.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (33:21):
Okay.
You know, you could say it'skind of like having, um, someone
set up your corporation, yourCPA could do it.
Your attorney could do it.
Who, who's really the bestperson, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I gotcha.
So you got to know people'sstrengths and weaknesses, but
you know, if you're going, youknow, um, if you're asking
someone to do something for anhourly fee and they can use
technology to do it, it doesn'tmean it's necessarily, they're

(33:43):
the best at doing that.
Um, But they'll gladly help youwith it.
We've seen a general change inthat, especially from the really
good folks out there in thelegal world.
But, you know, it still happensevery now and then.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, a lot of times thosebetter attorneys know that it's
not the right thing for theirclients either to do that.

(34:05):
I need somebody looking at thefinancial side.
Correct.
I don't want to be held upbecause we didn't look at the
finance.
You don't want to pay yourattorney to play CPA.
Yes, yes, yes.
They might look at somespreadsheets and P&Ls.
Yeah.
oh this doesn't add

SPEAKER_01 (34:16):
up yeah yeah fair enough you know so as we wrap it
up here I want to talk a bitabout like really two avenues
big mistakes or biggest mistakesyou see doctors making in the
industry today maybe there'ssome sort of maybe not even a
big mistake but just some sortof belief that I have to do it
this way or I can't do it thatway and then also something that
maybe doctors should do moreoften and they're not doing it

(34:39):
right now okay you know notnecessarily a mistake but like
hey you could do this you coulddo that I mean I will tell you
one that I see often is i kindof cringe when um let's say hey
doctor calls me up hey i've gotdavid on the team i'm gonna need
your help and i told david findme the best place in orange
county and i'm like that'sthat's that's a needle in a
haystack man i need to eitheri'm either a big believer in

(35:00):
process of elimination 100relying on you to just tell me
hey here's the best spot you'rea p dentist and you need this
square footage and you want tostay within these ranges uh go
over here correct orange countyor wherever um and or you know
let's start narrowing it downand then that process of
elimination conversation a guylike David is going to be able
to come out and say yeah there'snothing there you know you

(35:22):
picked La Habra there ain'tnothing there man there's
nothing that's vacant there'snothing that's coming on the
market so pick somewhere elseand that's I would rather know
than have some agent say yeahI'll go look and I'll go turn
over all the stones and you'relike look I've been looking all
over and there's nothing therethat's a mistake that I see
doctors making find me the bestthing in Orange County or in
Dallas right what do you got

SPEAKER_00 (35:44):
and there's a lot to unpack impact there there's so
many there's so many so manymistakes um i mean in reality we
see that too a lot of times fromdoctors you know maybe they go
to dental school they're fromother parts of the country and
they meet a significant otherand move to southern california
and they don't really know themarket

SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
yeah

SPEAKER_00 (36:02):
and it's hard because the reality is a couple
things right like if you're inother parts of the country you
probably need to look at youryour um you know your stature
saturation rates, yourcompetition ratios.
If you're in SouthernCalifornia, it's pretty
saturated.
So my diagnosis there would be,hey, where do you want to live?

(36:28):
How far do you want to drive?
Do you have children now?
I know we're getting deep intothought.
I ask those same questions.
Someday you may not want todrive an hour and a half.
It may be cool to drive an hournow, but someday you're going to
have a significant other andmaybe children, maybe not
children.
Or maybe you just want to spendmore time at home, right?
And it's like, can you sustainan hour drive for the next 30

(36:50):
years?
A lot of people can't.

SPEAKER_01 (36:52):
Probably

SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
not, probably not.
So just trying to help peopleunpack a lot of that.
I would say not having folkslike yourself, trusted advisors,
trust.
So many people come into theequation early on with this huge
guard up.
Yeah, fair point.
And I'm going to get takenadvantage of.
I would say interview your team,right?
Interview multiple people.

(37:14):
find the people that you gelwith, and then you have to give
them the trust.
Because if you go out throughthe process questioning
everybody and not trusting, andI know in the dental world,
that's just kind of, it's hardbecause

SPEAKER_03 (37:27):
we're

SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
running our, we're solo business operators and
everything falls on ourshoulders and everyone's coming
at us to sell us something.
But especially with projects orbuying practices, there's so
much trust you have to put inothers.
So letting people do their jobsis huge.
And I think interviewing andhiring the right people is key
to that, right?

SPEAKER_01 (37:49):
So now you guys, though, you have 120 agents
around the country?
Correct.
Yeah.
So to me, can I just get mybuddy to do it?
Can they just go on and look?
I'm in Texas and my buddy is anagent in California.
Can't they just go in and lookaround in Texas for me?
No,

SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
because you have state licensing.
Just like with dentists, theyhave to go get dental licenses
when they move around.
Same thing with With realestate, you have to pass real
estate exams in each state.
Some states are a little bitmore friendly and generous to
others.
For instance, I mean,California, we use California

(38:27):
and Texas a lot in thisconversation.
Those are two restrictive stateswhere you've got to be licensed
and have a broker in thosestates.
There's states in the Midwestand Florida and different places
where they're more friendly andmaybe you can work remotely.
You're trusted by can help youremotely or maybe they can't set

(38:47):
foot or maybe they can fly inthere and help you.
Every

SPEAKER_01 (38:50):
state's different.
I think something doctors shoulddo more of is rely on...
Now, it's interesting because inthis conversation for commercial
real estate and tenant rep andall that stuff, if we were
talking marketing, you can bewherever you want.
I don't really care if you knowthe local market.
I think that even if you arefrom the area and know the area,
have you ever looked forcommercial space before?

(39:10):
Probably not.
No different than you had said,hey, I still get a residential
realtor to help me with houses,I might know where the houses
are or the neighborhood that Iwant to be in, but I want them
to go, hey, here's my criteria,number of bedrooms, number of
bathrooms, whatever, help me gofind it.

SPEAKER_00 (39:23):
Trusted advisors, right?
That's the key.
I work with a residential personand I actually, my wife and I
flipped houses and differentthings.
I use the people that know thosespecific areas and they know the
ins and outs.
And the key thing is they haverelationships, right?
They're the local relationshipexpert in those markets.

(39:43):
And yeah, could I could I do itmyself?
Probably.
Would I make mistakes or could Iget cut out of a deal maybe
where I could make significantmoney on a property?
That's what I'm willing to payfor.
And I think that's what givingthe trust to someone that I've
gotten to know matters the most.
Any criteria they should lookfor

SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
when they're looking for an agent?

SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
Great question.
I would say look for someonethat's got experience and
everyone's got to startsomewhere, but you definitely in
this world want someone withexperience.
You know, definitely someonesomeone that's got a proven
track record, meaning people inthe market, other trusted

(40:23):
advisors may refer them to.
Usually people work well whenthey're working well on teams.
I think if you're getting strongrecommendations from other
members of a team, I thinkthat's a good idea that someone
may be a solid player.
This is something I have noproblem doing.

(40:45):
I've started doing it more andmore lately.
I give out, you know, ask your,if you're interviewing someone,
ask them for some referrals.
Right.
So I'll give them names.
And call them, please.
Call the referrals.
Or if you're bashful, text them.
Right?
I'll give them name and numberof a few clients that I've
worked with in the last 12months or six months that are

(41:06):
open, right, that aren'tassociates hiding out or
anything.
Yeah, of course.
And say, hey, reach out, get thetrue perspective on me And then,
or whoever, right?
If you're in Nacogdoches, Texas,right?
Let's call down there and figureout who are the trusted advisors
for maybe that region.
Or if you're in a part of thecountry that's rural, you may

(41:26):
have to have someone drive in,right?
But try to find people that havethe resources that can help

SPEAKER_01 (41:32):
you.
And I really got to harp on thatlocal experience part.
I think that's part of thesecret sauce that you guys have
is having all those agents.
Correct.
Because then you guys, you alsoget to collaborate as a team.
What do you see going on in themarket?
Is something moving from onecoast to the other?
Absolutely.
Are we seeing, you know, ithelps when you have somebody,
let's use Metro New York, let'suse like Manhattan, right?
Yeah.
I don't see too many landlordsoffering any TI allowance in

(41:56):
Metro New York at all or inNorth New Jersey, and that's
just how it is.
Right.
And so if you're working with anagent either remote or otherwise
or your buddy in Texas or in whoknows where, Ville, USA, did get
TI allowance, you're going togo, I'm getting ripped off.
And they go, well, however.
Wait a second.
Nobody's getting it.
Right.
And it goes back to your pointon trust.
The agent might say, well, look,nobody's getting it.

(42:17):
And you're going to go, well,that's not true, man.
Because my guy in Texas.

SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
They told me on Facebook that they're getting
it, right?
Yeah, I find that's hard.
My friend in Wisconsin got$80 afoot in a new air conditioner.
With

SPEAKER_01 (42:26):
referrals, Mr.
or Mrs.
Agent, send me some otherdoctors that you worked with in
the market.
But I can say, hey, did you getTI allowance?
The answer was no.
Did you get one?
No, no.
Oh, yeah.
Heck, I guess it checks out.
Correct.
Nobody else got one either.
And now I know the rules are,ain't nobody getting TI
allowances in Manhattan.
That's right.
So if I want to do a deal inManhattan, I guess I'm going to
have to chalk up.
Absolutely.
You don't get to go on Facebookand say, I got 120 bucks a
square foot.

SPEAKER_00 (42:47):
That's right.
What'd you get?
That's right.
Okay.
And then I think too, going backto Manhattan, Jersey,
California, Virginia, DC.

SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Good

SPEAKER_00 (42:58):
point.
There's zoning.
Yeah.
There's government issues.
There's things, you, things,nuances.
You have to know, okay, I can'tgo put a dental office here, but
in Oklahoma, I can basically layout a dental office anywhere I
want to go.
Right.
And so there's, there's, Knowingthe lay of the land, I think
that, I mean, we've all kind ofheard the horror stories where

(43:20):
doctor signs a lease and noone's called the city to even
check if a dental office isallowed.

SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Well, wait, the broker on the landlord's side
said it's good to go.
Right.
It's good to go.
Right.
Do you have a checks andbalances then that you do on
that?

SPEAKER_00 (43:32):
I personally, and I think everyone should do this,
we call and check on behalf ofour clients.
And then I personally coach myclients to Double checkers.
And it's not because I'm beinglazy.
And it's coming from experiencewhere we've been told, hey, we
call in, hey, we can't open thisoffice here in Whittier because

(43:57):
the zoning here is no good.
It doesn't allow for a dentaloffice.
And the doctor goes, oh, thatdoesn't sound right.
I really want that space.
These brokers don't know whatthey're doing.
And they go to City Hall and theguy goes, you know what?
We're going to change our zoningcode in two months.
We'll work with you.
Or, you know what?
They were right.

(44:17):
You can't go here.
Your broker was not lying to youbecause X, Y, Z.

SPEAKER_01 (44:22):
So, because I could think.
David said that because

SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
it's only 1,800 square feet.
He wants me to go to the 2,200square foot.
That's right.
I got you now.
It goes back to the trust issue,right?
I got you.
Makes sense.
So, knowing the ins and outs ofevery market, knowing that, hey,
I probably should, in certainareas of the country, check with
the government every time onplanning and Does this work?
Do I have enough if I'm inCalifornia parking?

(44:47):
Right, right, right, right.
Are there new laws that may ormay not affect?
You know, to expect that yourbroker should know that is
impossible, right?
Right.
And chat GBT and everythingelse, it gets false data on that
too.
Of course, of course.
So what I always say is brokerchecks, doctor checks.

(45:08):
You don't make million-dollardecisions without double
checking, right?
Trust your people, but check it.
Yeah.
Especially on Citi.
And also a lot of people arelike, well, my contractor will
deal with that.
Well, if you're bidding outcontractors and trying to get
the best possible deal,sometimes people don't always
look at things under amicroscope that they should be.
Very true.

(45:28):
So you really should try toinvest as you can.
Be a part of the team.
Double check this stuff.
Such a big financial decision.
And like I said, if we get twogreen lights or three green
lights, it's all systems go.
If we've got a green and a red,something's up.
Maybe we need to hire anarchitect.

SPEAKER_01 (45:48):
All right.
So last one here, and feel freeto disagree with this as much as
you want.
I get oftentimes, you know,should I go to the bank first or
should I talk to a commercialreal estate guy first?
And some people say do both.
And you can do both at the sametime.
You've been around long enoughto know that part of it.
But I like to give a little bitmore black and white, less gray.
There are certain areas where,hey, we're dealing in the gray

(46:09):
all day.
But other pockets, hey, I wouldlike to give you clear-cut
advice.
My advice is go to David first,commercial real estate person
first.
And that's because I get moreclarity, at least in the
beginning.
You know I'm a fan of offering acouple LOIs.
And I can then go to the bankand go, I know, based on square
footage, I got a rough estimateof construction, pricing, what
it's gonna run me.
I know TI allowance roughly.

(46:30):
And I've got a rental rateroughly, hopefully at that
point, at least something that'sbeing negotiated on.
So now I think I've got a bettershot at getting approved by the
bank.
If you wanna disagree with that,you can, because I also
appreciate the, I don't reallyknow if they can even get
approved, and so I'm gonna go todo this work, what they can't
get approved in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
I think it's based upon the experience of the
person you work with.
Yes, we help a lot of clientsbefore they ever go to the
banks.
And sometimes that's preferred.
I think a lot of it's drivenover what you want, your vision
for the practice.
If you're coming to us with kindof the normal, hey, I've got

(47:10):
$250,000 to$400,000 in studentloan debt.
I have some money saved up.
I have a good credit score.
I have a good associateship job.
You're going to get finance,right?
For the most part.
I hate to make that a, you know,but you should be able to get
finance.
I agree with that.
On that instance, I'm going tosay, yeah, let's go.
Let's go look.

(47:30):
If you come to us and you have800,000 or 600,000 student loan
debt, your credit score is alittle weak.
And that's, again, trusting whoyou're working with.
You need to be honest withpeople.

SPEAKER_01 (47:41):
Very true.

SPEAKER_00 (47:42):
And because they're not asking you to be nosy.
they're asking so they can helpyou.
Right.
Um, if you're an iffy financialsituation, it may be best.
So let's go to the bank first.
Good point.
Um, I always like to say youdon't want to be the little boy
that cries wolf.
Um, so, but if, if you've gotkind of that stereotypical or

(48:03):
normal dental, you know, uh,financial background, the answer
is yes.

SPEAKER_01 (48:09):
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, I appreciate, like Isaid, there are sometimes I
don't want any Dr.
Arbor with to be on their heelseither.
Because you go to the landlord,offer an LOI, and they kind of
go, yes, let's go.
We're ready.
Lease draft's coming in a coupledays.
And listen, to your point, let'srock and roll.
Very rare, but they might.
And I don't want you to bescrambling on, I don't have bank
approval.
And they just ask me for proofof funds or proof of financial

(48:30):
viability, feasibility, etcetera.
Uh-oh, what do I do?
I don't want anybody to be ontheir heels.
So I think, yeah, that's a fairpoint you make.
It just depends specificallywhat

SPEAKER_00 (48:41):
they look like.
And bank rates and dynamics canchange.
too right we all know that soyou could lock in with the bank
first and six seven months godown the road and bank c or d
now has a better option thanbank a yeah yeah and it's like
well i'm already locked in ipaid this uh rate lock etc and

(49:02):
now i gotta make this tough calli'm in a weird spot i don't i
don't feel comfortable with allthis right i gotta hurt
someone's feelings so yeah it'sit's kind of a perfect dance i
think it's again working withadvisors like yourself knowing,
okay, maybe I'm over my skishere.
I need to reach out for somehelp on this.
It's situational, right?

(49:22):
But yeah, if you kind of fall inthat box where you're kind of a
normal that we know that thethree or four biggest banks in
the country will give you aloan, yeah, let's go out and
look at spaces.
Not a problem.
Easy enough.

SPEAKER_01 (49:35):
All right, so we haven't talked about where
you're from necessarily.
Yeah.
And so you're with CAR.
That's right.
Healthcare Realty.
Is it Healthcare Realty orHealthcare

SPEAKER_00 (49:43):
Realty?
It's changed.
It's CAR.
It's CAR.
It's CAR.
C-A-R-R, by the way.
Yeah.
Where can people find it?
Seven, eight years ago, it wasCAR Healthcare Realty, and now
we worked a little bit into somegeneral commercial, and it just
became CAR.
Okay.
95% of the business we still doto this day is healthcare
realty.
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
Fair

SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
enough.
They can find me.
Our website's www.car.us.com.
Okay.
My email is david.gross atcar.us.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (50:14):
we'll put this in the

SPEAKER_00 (50:14):
notes and the comments, folks.
And then I should know this.
I have an Instagram handle.
You have an Instagram?
Okay, great.

SPEAKER_01 (50:21):
Okay, and you have Facebook?
I do.
Okay, great.
Probably got a LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 (50:25):
I do, 100%.
Okay, great.
Absolutely.
Fair enough.
Because everybody in the worldis connected on social media
nowadays, right?
Yes,

SPEAKER_01 (50:31):
yes, yes.
Thank you, man.
I appreciate being here.
Yeah, for sure.
Thanks for having me.
This is fun.
It's been absolutely fun.
Yeah, insightful.
Definitely.
And I really appreciate youbreaking down some of those
concepts just so that anybodylistening can understand.
Because even I'm like, wait, amI having it right?
Do I say it right?
it right.
So,

SPEAKER_00 (50:44):
and I've been doing it, um, nine years and almost
300 transactions.
And sometimes I go, okay,there's something new that you
learn every day.
And, you know, people have beendoing it 20 years.
We'll see something new everyday.
It's a commercial real estate isa land of sharks and they're all
trying to get one up on eachother.
So you really have to stop,think, okay, do I need help?

(51:05):
Do I need to reach out toanother advisor?
Um, and again, that's the wholepoint I think is finding your
team of people that you trustand, and, and, and Lean on them.
We will end on that, man.
Thanks again.
Appreciate it.
Thanks, Jonathan.