Buying A Dental Practice - Here's What You Need To Know with Maja Thompson and Kimberley Parker [CPD Available] - Dentists Who Invest Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr James (00:00):
Purchasing a dental practice is a world that is a
teeny bit obscure and it reallydoesn't get as much airtime as
it should, given that it ofpurchasing a dental practice in
granular detail, step by step,and also focus on Kimberley's

(00:30):
area of expertise as well, whichis practice finance.
Looking forward to this one andilluminating this process for
everyone.
I'm also happy to share thatthere is free verifiable CPD
associated with this podcastepisode.
Whenever you finish the episode, all you have to do is click
the link in the podcastdescription.

(00:50):
It'll take you right throughthe Dentists Who Invest website.
You'll be able to complete ashort questionnaire and, once
passed, you fill in yourreflections and we'll go ahead
and email over to you yourverifiable CPD certificate,
which is entirely free.
What that means is this podcastepisode will be able to
contribute towards yourverifiable CPD certificate,
which is entirely free.
What that means is this podcastepisode will be able to
contribute towards yourverifiable CPD hours during this

(01:10):
learning cycle.
Welcome everybody to thiswebinar this evening where we're
talking buying a dentalpractice with the experts of
course, Henry Schein who've beenthere, done that, bought the
t-shirt and are responsible forhow many dental practices in the
uk?

Kimberley (01:27):
Kimberley hot fac oh, you put him in the spotlight.
Too many to count, too many tocount.
Now we've been involved in,honestly, an incredible amount
um across the team.

Dr James (01:38):
So we've got lots of experience in this, so,
absolutely, so you know a fewthings about buying and selling
yes, anyway, the purpose of thiswebinar tonight is to share a
little bit of inside knowledgeand how that's done, so that
somebody can get the best dealon that front, whether you are
just about to purchase apractice or maybe coming more
towards the end of your career.

(02:00):
So we are going to be coveringthat this evening.
100 got a little bit of apresentation coming up in just a
second and then also, as wellas that, the opportunity to ask
any question that you would likeunder the sun whenever it comes
to dental practices, wheneverit comes to anything surrounding
that, anything that pops intomind.
Of course, all we ask is thatif a question does pop into your
head, please do, of course, popit in the chat so we can get to

(02:23):
it whenever it comes to the Q&Asection of the webinar.
Maja, I know you've been on theDentists Who Invest podcast
before and we've done somecontent together.
It might be nice to have alittle bit of a reintroduction
to the audience, though.

Maja (02:34):
Sure, sure.
So Maja Thompson, I'm theDirector of Practice Services at
Henry Schein.
Been at Henry Schein for aboutfive years.
Prior to that worked at portmanas an m&a manager, so bought
quite a few practices.
Prior to that run my ownbusiness dental business which
are sold, so kind of have theview of both sides buying and

(02:55):
selling.
So yeah, really looking forwardto sharing some of those
experiences here today excellentand Kimberley.

Dr James (03:02):
you are brand new to the Dentists Who Invest audience
, aren't you?
I am indeed, so can you give usa little bit of a hello, an
introduction?

Kimberley (03:08):
Absolutely yeah, so I'm Kimberley Parker.
I'm the business manager here,so I work both with practice
sales and also in the financialservices team, so I look after
both of those aspects of thebusiness, and this is actually
the year of my 15th anniversary,so I've been in the sector for
some time now, so I've seen itall and lots of different
scenarios, but I'm also surethat there'll be more as well

(03:29):
okay, let's have some fun thisevening in that case wonderful.

Dr James (03:32):
All right, Maja, I know you've got a little bit of
a presentation, so maybe itmight be nice to kick off on
that one now and let's just makesure I'm sharing the
presentation.

Maja (03:43):
Yeah, does that look good?
Okay, it looks great, you cansee it.
So we've done some of theintroductions.
Let me make sure that we'rethere.
I can move the slides forward.
So what I am planning to do isI'm going to make this pretty
easygoing.
It's not going to beparticularly strict.
So please feel free to askquestions.
As James said, pop them in thechat.

(04:04):
So please feel free to askquestions.
As James said, pop them in thechat and essentially, Kimberley
and I will cover the content.
The plan is for me to talk forabout the first, maybe third,
then Kimberley will come andI'll talk about buying the
practice.
Then Kimberley will talk abouthow you actually finance that
purchase.
Then we will wrap that up andcome back to the questions at

(04:27):
the end.
So that's kind of the theoverview.
I have some notes, so I'lloccasionally look down at my
notes just to make sure that Idon't miss anything.
But essentially we both kibbleyand I, are from an era where um
many so Henry Schein practice,Henry Schein dental practice
Sales was essentially MediEstateup until probably officially

(04:48):
about a year ago, but it wasacquired by Henry Schein, so
MediHoldings, the whole businesswas acquired by Henry Schein in
2017 and slowly then gotintegrated into the Henry Schein
Group, but to many, many peopleon the market, just known as
MediEstate, and MediEstate'sbeen around for about 20 years
and in that period bought andsold lots of dental practices,

(05:10):
so lots of experience in theteam, as you can see here just
in the last.
So these are the stats for thelast five years.
So valued 2,600 practices,brought 640 million pounds worth
of practices to market, and youcan see some of those other
stats, but one of the reallyinteresting stats we currently
have on our database just over6,000 active buyers.

(05:34):
So these are buyers lookingacross the whole of the UK that
we service, uk and Ireland thatwe service.
So the other thing that I justwanted to mention.
So the other thing that I justwanted to mention, we have in
the marketplace over the lastprobably so it's been a very
active marketplace and we allknow that there is consolidation

(06:04):
going on, that dentalcorporates started buying dental
practices maybe probably as farback as 20 years ago, but in
around the end of 2022, whathappened is we all know that
inflation went up and thegovernment, to kind of control
that inflation, started bringinginterest rates up and that
cooled the market off.
So probably back end of 2022and into 2023, the volume of
practices being bought and solddropped and I think you would

(06:29):
know that across all of thebrokers and majority of the
corporates either renegotiatedtheir deals that they had in the
pipeline or they basicallydropped out.
So what we now come to see atthe back end of probably 2024 is
the, I suppose, market got usedto the fact that interest rates
are higher and they're notgoing back to where they

(06:51):
previously were.
The market started moving againand, in reality, what we now
see more of and what we hear ofthat the corporates are still
buying.
We meet with lots of currentcorporates, lots of DSOs, and
they are buying, but they're notbuying in the volume that they
used to buy, probably prior tomaybe 22, 23.

(07:14):
But what we do see a lot ofactivity from independent buyers
and small groups.
That's probably where majorityof the activity is.
So just to kind of positionthat in where we are at the
moment.
So just to kind of positionthat in where we are at the
moment.
So I will move on.
So tonight the idea is to talkabout some of the well, it says

(07:35):
here all of the aspects ofbuying a dental practice.
We will try to mention as manyof those, but this is really not
a definitive guide and itbasically serves as a prompt to
the areas that you need toconsider while you're looking to
buy a practice.
So, moving on, I'll bring allof them up, so looking at kind

(07:57):
of the things that are reallyimportant as you are deciding.
So these are kind of probablythe four things that, as you are
looking to buy a practice, youwould then start considering.
So why is location important?
You have to decide whether,obviously, it will be related to
where usually where you live orwhere you intend to live in the
future, but there are certainlyimplications depending on where

(08:20):
you decide to look to toacquire a practice.
So it will be things like howeasy would it be to source
associates for the future?
How easy would it be to sourceyour team members for the future
?
Is it a lifestyle business?
Is it something that you aregoing to move for and you're
going to live in the LakeDistrict in Cornwall, and is

(08:41):
that the reason why you'remaking the move?
You then need to considerwhether you want to be part of a
community or you want to be,you know, in a central London
location where you know the typeof patient base that you'll be
seeing will be quitetransitional and obviously the
competition that you have withinthat area.
So there's quite a few thingsto consider.

(09:02):
In terms of the location, thenyou need to have a look at what
type of practice type you wouldlike to buy.
So I tend to say a dentalpractice, or a solid business,
is like a chair the more revenuestreams that you have, the more
solid it is.
If you have just one, it tendsto be quite a wobbly chair.
But if you have a mix of incomestreams, then you know it's

(09:25):
quite good.
So is the practice an NHSpractice?
Is that the kind of work thatyou deliver?
Could you introduce privateincome, you know, to a practice?
Would you want to?
Is it just a private practice?
Is it a specialist practice?
Could you?
Then, if you're you knowbuilding those revenue streams,
could you?
Is there a patient plan base?
So that's a relatively reliableincome stream.

(09:49):
So you need to decide the typeof practice that you're looking
for.
Then your practice is going tobe located in a property.
So would you want to acquirethe freehold?
Or, if a practice is if thefreehold is not for sale, are
you happy not to acquire thefreehold?
Because if you don't acquirethe freehold, you then have a

(10:09):
landlord that you have to kindof work with.
So it's really important todecide whether a freehold is
important for you, and there isadvantages and disadvantages to
both.
If you are a leaseholder,obviously you have a landlord.
If you're a freeholder, all theresponsibility for the upkeep
of the building and all of thatis with you.

(10:29):
However, you end up having theinvestment, so you have the
building.
So one day when you sell thepractice, you still have that
investment.
So it's something that you needto consider in terms of the
property.
And if you look at growthopportunities, are you happy
with a single surgery or twosurgery practice, or do you need
the opportunity to be able togrow that practice, to have an

(10:52):
extra room, to be able to addmore chairs, or is it simply
that you want to start this asmaybe your future group?
So does this practice need tohave, you know, at least three
chairs so that it can be anassociate-led practice?
So it's really important atthis stage to decide some of
those basics relating to yourpractice, on the kind of things

(11:14):
that you want.
So if we move on.
So the really important thingis kind of thinking about those
timescales.
So searching for a practiceitself can take certainly
anything from a from we mighthave an ideal practice for you
right now for the thing thatyou're looking for, but it's

(11:35):
it's usually quite unlikely thatyou will find something on the
first go.
It's like finding your firstgirlfriend or boyfriend.
It takes, it takes a few triesto find the right one.
So and I would say same withthe houses you do need to really
go and see quite a few.
You might have an idea of whatit is that you want, but
actually, unless you have,unless you're exposed to

(11:56):
different types of practices,they might bring up something
that you perhaps weren'tthinking of.
So my suggestion would beregister with an agent, I mean
register with us, but alsoregister with all of the other
agents on the market, because wetend to have some of the
similar practices but we tend tohave different practices on the
market.
Research, research, research.

(12:18):
Go back to those four pointsthat I said and they need to be
kind of your guiding points inthe type of thing that you're
looking for, and then after thatgo to viewings and go and learn
about the practices differenttypes of practices that are out
there and review details.
If you register with an agent Ithink majority of agents the
registration as a buyer is free.

(12:39):
They will send you informationabout the practices.
Go and review the papers thatare coming on the practices,
look at the accounts that youare receiving and get some
advice from either colleagueswho have been through it before
or some of the specialistadvisors that I will mention
later.
So let's say you've got to aplace where you have found the

(13:01):
practice that you like.
So that search is over and thatnegotiation process then starts
.
And this is where a really goodbroker comes in where, because
they have been in that positionbefore quite a few times, they
understand how the market works,they understand what the seller
is looking for, they understand, they obviously discuss with

(13:22):
you what you are looking for andthey're a really nice
intermediary to actually makethe deal work.
And at the point where kind ofthat negotiation as the
negotiation progresses, you willget to a stage where you both
meet somewhere in the middle andyou agree that that is the
practice for you and the sellerhas found the ideal replacement

(13:42):
for them.
Once the sale is agreed, thenthe first legal document is
drafted and it's usually eitherheads of terms of memorandum of
sale, which are the basicdocuments that outline what you
have agreed and it's a willingagreement that you will get into
legal negotiations or legalprocess and that's the start of

(14:06):
the due diligence process.
So that's this kind of middlebit, agreeing the sale.
I think I said around a month,but actually it's probably a
little bit longer than that.
When you kind of take all thenegotiations in, some deals move
really quickly but in realityit takes a little while to
actually move from negotiatingto sale, agreeing the sale and

(14:28):
signing those documents, andthen you enter the due diligence
process.
I'll talk a little bit moreabout that, what that involves,
but it's essentially we havefound that it takes probably
four months.
Some of the it takes probablyfour months.
Some of the most slick dentalcorporates or DSOs are very good

(14:49):
.
They have professional buyersand they will go through the
process of acquiring practicereally quickly and that's, if
they don't find any problems,kind of skeletons in the closet.
So you know things don't comeout of the sale that nobody was
expecting.
If things go smoothly, fourmonths is probably the shortest
space of time on a normal deal,and that can go up to anything.

(15:13):
Really, it depends on howprepared, how dedicated the
buyer is, how prepared theseller is for the sale.
We now find that majority ofsales take about eight to nine
months to complete, with kind ofeight and a half months being
the average for a deal tocomplete from the point when the
heads of terms are signed, andI think that's probably the
market average.

(15:33):
So if I'll bring the points up,so if we have a look at some of
the key things that are toconsider once those agreements
are signed, so once the sale isagreed which means that either
heads of terms or memorandum ofsale, which can be used
interchangeably as terms, aresigned, that's the official

(15:56):
start of the due diligenceprocess.
Both parties have agreed thatthey will move forward.
So I would say that one of themost important things and things
that can make or break a dealis selecting the solicitor.
Now we have a list ofsolicitors that we work with.
They're specially solicitedwithin the healthcare sector.
There is no commercialagreement with us, it's just

(16:17):
that they are really experiencedat doing what they do.
Their healthcare transactionsare all they do, and we will
provide you with a list of thosesolicitors.
You're more than welcome to goand use your own or somebody
else if that works for you.
But the most important thing isthat making sure that your
solicitor is experienced in thetype of transaction that you are

(16:39):
undertaking Super important andalso it's a transaction that
you are undertaking Superimportant and also it's a
transaction that's reallyimportant.
It's a really important momentin your life.
You are potentially buying oneand only practice.
You might be buying a wholeseries of practices, but it
tends to be a really bigdecision.
So you want to go with somebodywhere you have a gut feeling
that things are going well.

(17:00):
Apart from the gut feeling,shop around, make sure that you
get a fixed quote.
Majority of solicitors will doa fixed quote for the work that
they do.
That there's chemistry therethat you can work with this
person to get through to the endof that transaction.
Ask them about their workload,ask them about the experience

(17:21):
and how many transactions theyhave carried out in that space,
and also ask them about the sizeof their team.
How many people are dedicatedto kind of that dental space.
And one of the things thatwe've also found is really
important Do they have aproperty department?
So if you are looking to buythe freehold, you really want to
have somebody in-house thatwill be able to advise on that,

(17:42):
because otherwise, when youstart adding other solicitors to
the party, it tends to extendthat buying process.
So really super important tocheck that you have the right
team on your side, because theywill be playing on your team.
The next thing is so yoursolicitors.

(18:03):
Once you've agreed on who yoursolicitors are, what they will
do is they will open up a dataroom and in the data room they
will store all of theinformation that relates to that
sale.
So initially they will send out, or as part of the process,
they will send out, the purchaseagreement for the purchase of
the process.
They will send out the purchaseagreement for the purchase of

(18:24):
that, for the purchase of thepractice, which will contain all
of the kind of legal agreementswith regards to the sale.
But they will also, in the dataroom, be checking that the
business that you are buying isthe actual kind of business that
is on the paper being sold.
So they will check who theemployees are, whether the

(18:46):
contracts are in place, thecompliance for the practices in
place.
They will check that, all ofthe kind of details with regards
to the property, that thefinancial stack up, so they're
effectively checking thepurchase for you.
So that's really important.
It's a due diligence processquite onerous.
There's a lot of paperworkgoing on, especially on the

(19:08):
seller's side, because it's downto the seller to provide all of
these documents and it's downto the solicitor on your side to
make sure that those documentsare checked.
So really important process,really important to have the
right solicitor on your side.
When it comes to the property,so we would say that probably

(19:32):
two things that can slow downthe purchase process the most
are the property, certainly ifthe property is with a third
party landlord, which means thatthe person who is selling the
business isn't the owner of theproperty.
So sometimes that will tend toslow down the sale because the
third party solicitors for themthey already have a tenant.
So really it's just making surethat they are involved in the

(19:53):
process early on so that theycan transfer the lease to the
new owner.
So that's really important.
Also, the CQC making sure thatthe CQC process is started
really early.
Sometimes it's not thatimportant, but usually in the
asset sale it's really importantthat the CQC process is started
early, because from theapplication to transfer the

(20:17):
registration from one person toanother, it can take three to
four months, and so it's quite aslow process and tends to be
the one that almost dictates thespeed of the deal.
So you start the things thattake the biggest amount of time.
You start the discussions aboutthe property, discussions about
the CQC, very early on so thatthe other stuff can kind of run

(20:38):
in the background while all ofthe kind of the CQC and property
are being dealt with.
So those are really importantones.
Also, the NHS contract If thepractice has an NHS contract,
the transfer of that contractneeds to be handled carefully
and also just making sure thatthe NHS contract is being
fulfilled, so whether there areany breach notices or anything

(21:01):
like that.
So it's really important tofocus on that.

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Maja (22:03):
So, moving on, I talked a little bit about, obviously, the
buying process.
Now, these are all of the bitsthat you would need in terms of,
kind, of starting the duediligence process.
But you've decided, so you havefound the practice, the process
is going on.
You then have to be able toafford to buy that practice.

(22:24):
So Kimberley is now going totalk about what all the bits in
terms of finance are involved inpractice acquisition.
So over to you, kim.

Kimberley (22:33):
Absolutely so.
This is the good stuff.
How can we afford the practice?
What do you need to do and howcan we support you with that as
well?
So assessing your financialposition, firstly.
So one of the key things issavings and capital, and so the
banks will assess, alongside thebusiness, your personal
circumstances as well.
So that will include yoursavings and capital, and that

(22:55):
includes both cash and property.
But it's really important tosay here that that doesn't
necessarily mean that they wantto utilize that.
It just gives them a reallygood feel for you as an
individual, and that's somethingthat we can support you with
with how we present that to thebanks as well.
And so, moving on to creditscore, which always sounds scary
um, but it truly isn't so.

(23:16):
Um, what we will do initiallyis obtain what we call
indicative terms from the bank,and I think the easiest way to
describe what that is is it's aproposal of what the banks can
do.
So it's effectively like yourdecision in principle when
you're buying a property, sothere's no credit score done at
that stage.
Like I say, it really is just ahighlight of what the banks

(23:37):
feel they can do for thatparticular practice and because
the terms that you get for onepractice might be a little bit
different to what you get foranother, because it is also
based on the financials of thatbusiness as well.
So we'll go to the banks andwe'll talk more about what the
banks look like later on and wewill obtain the very best rates
that we can for you, the verybest terms, discuss that with

(23:59):
you, review that and togetherwe'll decide on the lender that
you'd like to move forward with,and that is the point at which
a credit check will be done whenit goes to their credit team.
So if you're looking on themarket, I would suggest, at the
viewing stages, come to us.
We can assess that with thebanks.
No credit check is done, so wecan do that on as many as you
like before you decide that youactually want to move forward

(24:20):
with a particular practice.
So just moving on to budgeting.
So this will give you a feel for, when you're looking at
practices, what you should belooking for before you go and
view the practice.
Is it even one that I canactually afford?
There's a lot of flexibilityhere as well with the bank.
So it's certainly something toconsider and, again, certainly
something that we can supportwith case by case.

(24:41):
So each practice is assessed onits own merits, alongside your
personal circumstances, whichagain we'll just route into that
a little bit further later on.
As well.
As a general rule, just to giveyou a feel for it, I would say
that the banks are looking foraround 10 to 20% as a deposit.
So that gives you a good feelfor where you sit with
particular practices.
However and this is where theflexibility comes in, which is

(25:04):
great Some of the banks at themoment look to go up to 95%
lending, where they will take onthe existing debt with you as

(25:24):
well.
So there's quite a lot therefor flexibility.
So, just going back to thesavings and capital aspect,
where the deposit is smaller,again the banks will consider
what your assets look like.
So even though they might nottake a big cash deposit, they
will again have a feel for whatyour assets look like in the
background.

(25:48):
So one of the key things toconsider when budgeting is rates
.
So let's have a chat about whatthe banks are doing at the
moment.
So as low as 1.8% at the minutefor a first time buyer and
that's above the Bank of Englandbase rate, and I'm sure you've
seen a lot of that in the news.
So 2023, 2024,.
It was at the high at 5.25%.
It has now gone down to 4%,which is fantastic.
So really good support.

(26:09):
With that affordability as wellFor those who are existing
owners, we're actually gettinginto this sector.
It's considered one of the leastriskiest support, which is
fantastic.
What I would suggest, thatbeing said, is perhaps just
stress test at about 3%, so youget a feel for what it might
look like should rates increaseat all, and then you'll
understand if you truly canafford that practice.

(26:30):
So just moving on to this slidehere with bank loans, so, as I
say, the banks really have giventhe green light for go with
this sector, which is justwonderful, and we can look at
the products that the banks arelooking at with you as well.
So what I would consider withproducts, there are a number out
there and that's where ourexpertise comes into play and
when we get the terms back fromthe banks, we can really discuss

(26:52):
those with you.
And one of the key things thatwe'll discuss is what is your
plan?
Are you looking to take on apractice and stick with that
practice and potentially justown one, or are you looking to
grow a small group, because fromthere it might depend which
practice you move forward with,but also which lender you move
forward with, and also whichproduct as well, so we can

(27:12):
review those at the stage whenyou find a practice.
So, specialist lenders what doesthat mean?
So we use a panel of specialistsolicitors and lenders as well.
So what I'd say about that isit can sound scary like it's you
know, perhaps lenders that youwon't know of, but you
absolutely will.
So these are high street banks,but they actually have a

(27:33):
specific department forhealthcare within those as well,
and the great thing is we workwith the head of healthcare at
each of those banks so we canput your case to the credit team
in the most possible, in themost positive way, and then the
head of healthcare can supportwith that as well, and that's
where we get the flexibility andthe very best outcome for you

(27:53):
as well.
It just effectively means thatwe can really foster that
movement where possible, whichreally is great.
So, loan terms what do they looklike?
Maja mentioned a few of theproperty types earlier today.
So that does impact which kindof loan terms will be available
to you.
So if you were purchasing on aleasehold basis.

(28:14):
So if you were renting theproperty, a goodwill repayment
term would be up to a maximum of15 years, and goodwill, that is
the business itself, so that isthe business that you're
purchasing.
So if you were purchasing thefreehold, which is the property
of the business as well, itdepends which bank you move
forward with and there'll beoptions there.
So some of them might put thetwo together, so goodwill and

(28:35):
the freehold loan together, anddo an average term of 20 years.
Or, because it's a tangibleasset, it's a physical asset
they might actually do thegoodwill over 15 years and then
do the freehold property over 25.
So that just means that itmakes it more affordable.
Maja mentioned earlier aboutconsidering the affordability on
that.
So the banks want to supportwith that as well, and it just

(28:57):
means that they can extend thatand bring the repayments down
for you as well.
Next slide Thank you very much,Maja.
She's reading my mind.
We've worked with each otherlong enough now.
So the business plan really iskey when looking at a practice.
And again, this is somethingwhich always sounds a bit scary.
It's business admin, it's lifeadmin.

(29:18):
We don't want to do it, do we?
But it's something that we cansupport you with.
So we actually have a templatespecifically for the business
plan and it effectively maps itout with different sections.
All you need to do is completethat a sentence or two here and
there, and that will build up aposition of how we'd like to put
that to the banks so that wecan make sure that, again, we

(29:39):
get the very best outcome foryou.
So the financial history prettysimple with regards to this.
So nothing much that you'd needto do here.
So it's effectively what willbe provided by the broker or by
the seller, and this issomething that we will put to
the banks alongside yourpersonal circumstances, and
they'll assess that as one aswell.
So the personal and financialstanding we we've covered that a

(30:02):
little bit, but I just wantedto go into that in a bit more
detail.
So what we do is when we passthe documents to the bank that
we request from you, which I'llgo into those documents shortly
we call it a portfolio, so wewill put that portfolio to the
banks, and a key considerationwithin that is how much you'll
actually draw from the practiceitself.

(30:28):
So one of the considerationsmight be what's your plan to
work in the practice.
Do you plan to work in thepractice at all?
Are you working in anotherpractice part-time alongside
working in the new practice thatyou're purchasing part-time as
well?
So what we'd like to show thebanks is what you would like to
draw from the business.
Initially, it might well bethat you want to keep as much in
the business whilst you'regrowing it and make your
drawings a little bit smaller.
But if we do that, we just wantto make sure that you are still

(30:49):
maintaining the same lifestyleand you're able to cover that.
So that is something that thebanks will consider.
So for that they have what theycall an asset liability form.
So that maps out the assetsthat you have property, cars,
things like that but then alsowhat your outgoings are.
So it just means if you say Iwant to take X amount from the
business, that actually youroutgoings support that as well.

(31:11):
At the end of the day, we wantyou to take over a practice and
thrive.
We want to make sure that we'renot taking away so the
experience.
So this is always thechallenging piece is the CV.
Look, I've worked in a practicefor 20 years.
I don't have a CV.
That's fine, we can supportwith that no problem.
But I think the key thing is isreally your managerial
experience.
So even if you provide us witha paragraph about what that

(31:34):
looks like alongside yourclinical experience, that is
very useful.
So I suggest, if you don't havemanagerial experience within a
practice, just get involved insome of those tasks in the
practice that you work at themoment and that will build a
picture for the bank of what youcan do and it will support the
application as well.
And then security.
So one of the key pieces ofsecurity that people think that

(31:58):
a bank wants is the propertyitself.
So your residential property,your home property, but actually
that is very, very rarelyrequired, so, a charge being
that they would take a secondcharge on the property, your
mortgage provider owns the firstcharge.
So largely what we will look atis if you've got a limited

(32:19):
company that might wish to takea debenture on that.
But, quite frankly, one of thekey bits of security is simply a
life cover that is related tothe loan itself, a little bit
like with your mortgage, andthat is one of the key pieces of
security that they require.
They will map that out in therequirements of the loan as well
, and that might be one of yourconsiderations which enables you
to help choose which bank youmove forward with as well.

(32:41):
Next slide, please.
Which enables you to helpchoose which bank you move
forward with as well.
Next slide, please.
This is the good stuff, this isthe juicy stuff.
So what happens when your offeris accepted and you move
through to the sales process?
The fun stuff legal andregulation considerations, the
stuff that we all want to do,and so this will be covered in
the due diligence process.

(33:01):
So I'm going to list a fewdifferent things here about what
will be involved in the duediligence process.
So I'm going to list a fewdifferent things here about what
will be involved in that, andthen we'll come to that again
shortly.
So within this sector, we willdrive the focus with the
solicitors to ensure maximumefficiency as well, to make sure
that everyone's on track ateach stage.
Like Maja says, time is one ofthe key pieces with the
transaction, and we want toensure for you and the seller as

(33:23):
well.
You know that we can completeas soon as possible.
It is within everybody'sinterest.
So, within this period of thelegal and regulatory
considerations, there are anumber of things that we do, so
we'll review the contractspecific to the practice
staffing agreements, duediligence, insurances, relevant

(33:43):
certification, compliance andregulation documents, whilst
also establishing the practicesale documents.
So that might be the sale andpurchase agreement, which sets
out the conditions and agreementfor that sale itself, which is
very specific to that sale, andalso, within that period we
arrange if a lease is applicable.
We'll arrange the lease whereneeded.

(34:04):
So I know that this does soundlike a lot of organisation, but
this is where the broker reallyprovides key value to ensure,
again, that both sets ofsolicitors really are pushing
forward and that they cover allof these pieces.
Up for you to take the rubbishstuff away, and then we can
handle that.
So it is important to note that, while there is a standard set

(34:26):
of due diligence that a lot ofthe solicitors that are
specialists will use, there arenuances depending on the
practice that you're purchasing.
So that covers most of them,but again, there might be a few
additions based on the practicethat you're purchasing.
So, with regards to maintainingthe compliance when you take
over a practice, we do actuallyhave compliance partners that we

(34:47):
work with.
So when you're then a practiceowner, they can support with all
of the certifications that youneed with that, all of the
training, etc.
So that you can remaincompliant as well, and they are
absolutely fantastic.
We use a number of ourpractices, use those and swear
by them as well.
So they are great.
And that is me in a nutshellwith regard to the regulations

(35:09):
great thanks, kim.

Maja (35:10):
So thank you, um, I just wanted to cover this.
Uh, I wanted to mention apartnership that we have with uh
.
So this is mark toppopley.
He runs a website called GreatBoss and he has a program which
is for new practice owners.

(35:30):
It's a 100-day program.
I mean, mark has a lot ofexperience he used to be the CEO
of Bridge to Aid, has lots ofexperience in that field in
terms of leadership andmanagement and this particular
program.
You can use either the QR codeor go to his website and he has
a program which is like a100-day program that basically,

(35:51):
as you're about to purchase apractice and embark on that
first journey, he will take youthrough how to set up the
cornerstones of your newbusiness so that you can thrive,
make you through how to set upthe cornerstones of your new
business so that you can thrive.
So things like he'll focus onactually getting to grips with
your financials very early onsuper important because that

(36:11):
will either you know yourbusiness will either succeed or
fail, based on the numbers Team.
So you have acquired a newbusiness.
It comes with a team.
It's all about changemanagement and making sure that
you know that process goessmoothly, that they are on your
side and you're all rowing inthe same direction.
Things like operations you knowhow do you set up an efficient

(36:33):
business so that it can it cangrow for the future.
Things like marketing so hewill work with you for those
first hundred days.
I think he has all of thecostings on there, so it's
definitely worth checking out ifyou're embarking on your first
practice.
Ownership, and I will just do areally quick recap of the things

(36:57):
that we've covered.
So I said from the beginning,we have tried to outline as many
of the essential considerationswhile buying a practice and
then affording that practicethrough the practice finance.
But it's not a definitive guide.
So these are some of the kindof key topics.
So, in terms of understandingthe buying process, those

(37:20):
relevant timescales, the peoplethat are involved in the process
, the parties that support youthrough it, some of those key
considerations.
And then I think at the startof the presentation we talked
about what are the things thatyou need to know about the
market, what are the things youneed to know about your
requirements and where yourfuture is, so that you are

(37:42):
looking for the right types ofpractice.
So test, try, view, you know,make sure that you do all of
that groundwork.
And then Kimberley has justgone through a whole set of
lending requirements and whatthose lenders look for, the
types of documents that youwould need to prepare and all
the background that you wouldneed to, I suppose, have to be

(38:07):
able to progress with thatpurchase.
So some really important things.
But what I really wanted to sayis that, as a broker, what we do
is we hold your hand throughthe process, so it's free to
register as a buyer.
It's free to register to kindof receive that advice about

(38:27):
practice finance.
We have done this lots of timeswith lots of buyers over many,
many years.
We have a team that you know dothis day in, day out, so we
hold your hand throughout theprocess to make sure that it's
really nice and efficient.
So this is us, our contactdetails, some of the qr codes

(38:48):
where you can register as abuyer or you can book a final
financial consultation.
What's really important tomention is that you might have
seen a practice somewhere else.
You might have seen a practicewith another broker.
We can still provide thepractice finance for it, so it
doesn't have to be a practicethat you purchase through us.
So those two are not connected.
They're two services that weprovide, so thank you very much.

(39:12):
So, James, are there anyquestions?
Is there anything that weshould have covered, that we
haven't covered?
That you've kind of spotted.

Dr James (39:21):
You know what?
That was really comprehensive,and I'm sure there's, but I do
have a few things to add on top.
But I think before we do that,we owe everybody here always
definitely both of you a clap upfor doing such a third job this
evening, and Kimberley as well,yeah, of course, Kimberley,
Maja, both of you absolutelyclap up and being so

(39:43):
comprehensive that tonight thatwas like literally everything
covered that you could reallypossibly think of, from the top
down, and even having it laidout on the screen as well,
graphically like that like thishappens, and this happens and
this happens.
I really enjoyed it, so thankyou so much, but yes, anyway,
I'm sure I speak on behalf ofthe audience as well.
Guys, now is the opportunity toask any question that you can

(40:04):
think of, whenever it comes tothe process of purchasing a
practice, or even sellingpractice as well, right?

Maja (40:12):
yeah, right, marlon.

Dr James (40:14):
Yeah, both Two sides of the same coin Two sides of
the same coin right, and thefinance side of things too,
which is obviously Kimberleyarea of expertise.
Kimberley, you know what I findreally interesting, and I know
you said this, but I rememberthe first time that I came
across this I found itinteresting or curious.

(40:35):
So the way lending workscorrect me if I'm wrong you
borrow for the freehold, as inthe actual building, and then
you also borrow for the goodwillas well.
So there's actually two separateloans that go on there right
and they both have, like,different limits and different
interest rates.
Would you mind divulging andsharing a little about that?

Kimberley (40:53):
Yeah, absolutely right.
So I did mention on thepresentation that the terms can
look different.
So you're absolutely right, andit does depend on the bank as
well.
So again, there is a lot offlexibility there.
So we've got some of the banksthat put them together.
So we've got some banks thatwill do, say, a 20-year term.
The rate will be the same.
But then most of the banks willdo separate elements for them.

(41:15):
So the reason they do that isthey tend to do a maximum of 15
years for the goodwill.
The goodwill will be in thebusiness itself.
So if you see a brochure fromHenry Schein Dental Practice
Sales, for example, we'll showyou what the goodwill is on the
front of that.
So we'll say I don't know, themarketing price might be 500,000
.
But as you go through to thenext page you'll see the
property and if the property isalso available for purchase, it

(41:39):
will say that it's a 250,000subject to valuation.
So put those together, you'vegot the 500 and the 250, that
makes you 750.
So the banks will say look atthe 500,000, we can do, say, 95%
lending on that and we'll do arate of 1.95% above base, let's
say.
And then they'll look at theproperty and they'll say

(42:02):
actually we can do the full250,000 on that, which is really
common.
So that again means that itmakes it more affordable for
people to look at the propertybecause budgeting-wise they
don't necessarily have to put asmuch of a deposit down but
there might be a slightlydifferent rate for that.
I mean, rates are really lowanyway.
So they'll be relativelysimilar but they will be, as you
say, very slightly differentbecause the policies for a

(42:25):
property which is tangibleversus business will be slightly
different.
But saying that, a lot of thetime, strangely enough you get a
lower rate on the goodwill ratebecause the banks really,
really want to want to lend ontheir dental businesses at the
minute interesting.

Dr James (42:40):
There we are.
Well, thank you for justclearing that one up and adding
a little bit more detail.
I see that the questions arecoming in, yeah, fast in the
chat, so let's hit it towardsthose, shall we?
So first question has come infrom ayaz.
Ayaz sabir, shout out to ayazthis evening.
Is there a rough averagemultiple that solo owner that

(43:03):
practices tend to be sold for?
I would assume that themultiplier increases if the
practice is also associate led?
I believe it does, but there'sa little bit more nuance to it.
It doesn't always mean thebusiness is worth more, right?

Maja (43:16):
Yeah.
So, Kimberley, do you want meto pick this one up?
Yeah, go for it and I canactivate it after if you like.
Yeah, sure, so it's really.
I suppose the way that thepractices are valued, the way
that we value and majority ofthe market now values practices,
is based on something calledEBITDA, which is effectively the
operating profit of thatpractice Earnings before tax.

Kimberley (43:42):
Income yeah, and depreciation amortization.

Maja (43:45):
So it's EBITDA.
And the smaller the practice, Isuppose the multiple could be
considered the level ofdesirability of that practice.
So you would have for apractice that is quite
appropriate.
If in the market there are morebuyers for that practice, it

(44:06):
will tend to attract a highermultiple.
So things like location, howeasy it is to bring staff in,
retain staff kind of marketing,the building that it's in, all
of those things will define whatthe multiple for the practice
is.

(44:26):
And there are two ways ofvaluing practices.
So one is whether a practice isgoing to be owned by an
owner-occupier.
So a single dentist or adentist who will have maybe one
or two associates will run thatpractice and that will be their
main source of income.
The other type of valuation fora practice will be the
associate-led model, which tendsto be for groups and corporates

(44:49):
and they will tend to have adifferent level of.
So one will have an assumption.
The owner-occupier model willhave an assumption that the
owner will be taking an incomefrom that practice and that will
be treated as basically profitwithin the practice.
In an associate-led model all ofthe costs are included in terms
of servicing that practice.

(45:11):
So the multiples on theowner-occupier will tend to be
lower.
So I would say they areanywhere in the region of two
and a half to maybe four and ahalf and for the corporate-led
model they tend to be higher.
They tend to be between if youask the corporates they'll be
lower, but in the real world theway that they're valued is

(45:31):
between six and let's say sixand eight or six and nine.
You know, for the single sitepractices and the way that you
can distinguish the two types ofpractices, anything up to maybe
two plus surgeries or threesurgeries really is
owner-occupier and we will tendto value on both, but it tends

(45:52):
to work on owner-occupier and wewill tend to value on both, but
it tends to work onowner-occupier.
Anything three surgeries pluscan be can potentially be an
associate-led practice wherethere is no, it's kind of a
group practice and they willtend to be valued on that
associate-led model.
I hope I've answered thatquestion kind of.
At least it gives you an ideaof how those practices are

(46:14):
valued.

Kimberley (46:15):
And I think one of the key things there is that
we're super transparent with ourvaluations.
So it will be very clear what wehave calculated the EBITDA to
be, and then you can either workit backwards or we can provide
you with the multiple that we'veused and there are sort of
commentary around that as well.
So we can always let you knowand if you're looking at
potentially either of those sowhether you're looking at maybe

(46:37):
owner-occupier or associate-led,depending on what your plans
are for the future you might beplanning to grow a group, so
initially you might be sort ofowner-occupier with the view
that eventually you'll go toassociate-led.
So we can always give you anidea of how it works on both of
those models as well.
Sometimes and mine mentionedthe three surgeries it can work
on both really well, um, butwe'll normally indicate that on

(47:00):
the brochure as well if we feelit can work that way, and so
we'll be very, very clear on thebrochure.
But if you have any otherquestions on it, we'll be very
happy to share any commentaryaround our valuations so just
one other thing to sorry, justone other thing to add In terms
of the valuation.

Maja (47:14):
so our team will use the kind of the sales valuation or
the multiples that have beenachieved in a particular area.
So they will tend to use thatas a reference guide.
So some of the practices inthat area in the past have sold
for this or this type ofmultiple was used.
So we tend to use the guidewithin the market to make sure
that we calibrate thosevaluations correctly nice.

Dr James (47:39):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, I definitely think we gotsome good answers there to that
question, so thank you to both.
Next question is from jono.
Jono says hi, great talk, thankyou.
What are the costs for yourservices, especially with
regards to the brokeringfinancial services slash finding
uh lenders?

(47:59):
Thank you so much, do you?

Kimberley (48:01):
want me to take this one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, lovely, and soI'll go with buyers first.
I know that you mentioned thefinance piece, but I'll cover
both off.
So we have a general market,which is the.
The practices that Majadiscussed on the owner occupier
fit the general market reallywell.
So that's kind of where ourindependent buyers will sit.
So there's no fee payable forthat.

(48:23):
So the fee will be paid by theseller.
We do have other tiers thatmaybe match more the corporate
models and things like that.
So if anybody is interested inthe much larger practices,
that's certainly something thatwe can discuss.
But really the independentpiece sits on the general market
, so no fee for that.
With regards to practice financeand so the, this is really

(48:45):
interesting actually.
So the lenders will charge whatthey call an arrangement fee
and that's the same if you godirectly to the, to the bank.
It's between about one and oneand a half percent of the loan
amount.
So they'll charge that, andsometimes they can tap it onto
the loan as well, so you don'thave to pay that straight off
the bat.
Um, but what they'll do,they'll provide us with a
proportion of that, so you don'tpay anything extra at all for

(49:08):
using our services.
If you go to the bank directly,the fee fee is precisely the
same, and we don't want to makethis transaction, you know, any
more expensive for you.
We want to keep it asstreamlined as possible, so for
that reason, this is effectivelya service we want to provide.
We don't charge anything on topof that at all, so the fee
comes from the bank and it costsabsolutely no more than if you

(49:28):
go directly, so you don't needto worry about that, and that,
again, is very transparent.

Dr James (49:38):
So when we provide the initial indicative terms, we'll
be very, very clear of whatthat looks like as well.
Cool.

Maja (49:42):
Maja, anything to add?
Happy.

Dr James (49:46):
No, I think Kim has covered that really well.
In from bavik.
Patel, shout out to bavik thisevening for lending.
If you have multiple propertiesbut shared with different
people, will this make adifference or will they just use
half for their affordabilitycalculation?

Kimberley (50:02):
yeah, it really is case by case.
So if you can give a real goodpresentation of what that looks
like and normally we'll put thaton the asset and liability form
so that you can add in therethat you do own that with other
individuals and but I think thekey piece with that that I
mentioned in the presentation,which hopefully does help you,
is that they largely don'tactually require a charge of

(50:24):
those properties.
It is quite rare.
I'm not saying it doesn'thappen again very case by case,
but what that will do is justgive them a very good picture of
you as an individual.
So I've um invested withinthese properties and that will
give such a fantastic look atwhat you've done with your, with
your cash and and what your youknow your asset rich, clearly,

(50:44):
um, so that can really supportwith the bank.
So they might not actually needto use any of it at all.
In fact it's quite unlikely.
It just enables them tounderstand you as an individual.
So I hope that helps excellent.

Dr James (50:59):
Thanks so much, and you know what.
We probably have time for one,two more questions here.
We'll see how we fare, shall we?
Next question from vidya.
Could you please clarify theregulations around non-dentist
ownership of dental practices,provided that licensed dentists
are employed to deliver care?

Maja (51:22):
So, as far as I understand , the regulation currently is
that part of the ownership ofthe practice needs to be
somebody who's GDC registered.
I can't quite remember what thepercentage is of ownership of
the practice, but it has to be aGDC registrant.
It doesn't have to be a dentist.
I would have to check thoseregulations 100%, but I think

(51:45):
that that's kind of currentlywhere they stand.
Would you know, James?

Dr James (51:49):
I actually, incidentally, do think I know
this one, because I remember itcame up on a podcast once upon a
time.
But before I jump in Kimberley,were you going to say something
?

Kimberley (51:58):
No, no, that's fine, I'll pass to you, James.

Dr James (52:00):
This is an interesting one because I remember this
coming up and there's a littlebit of a quirk here.
Ok, so apparently when the GDCwrote the legislation for this
they wanted it to be 51% of thedirectors had to be GDC
registered.
The shareholders is not part ofwhat they legislated for,
apparently it's the directors.

(52:21):
So I was told anyway what theyintended.
I don't quite know how thispanned out, but they intended to
make it so that it was 51% ofthe directors.
So it was always the majoritywere GDC registered.
But apparently because of howthey worded the legislation,
it's actually 50%unintentionally, so it can be
split between someone who's GDCregistered and also not GDC

(52:45):
registered.
There's a little bit of a quirkthere.
I remember thinking, oh, that'sinteresting and I like little
factoids like that.
So it stuck in my head.
But before anybody rushes offand forms partnership with
somebody who's not GDCregistered, maybe, just maybe,
just want to double check yeah,I do remember that little
factoid coming up before.
Is that congruent with what youguys heard?
Have you come across that?
before yeah yeah, there is alittle quirk in there somewhere.

(53:07):
Anyway, vidya, we helped asmuch as we could on that one.
Hopefully, uh, hopefully thatwill uh help in some way, uh,
but listen, it's definitely aplace to look and you know, you
know video, you know who that isa great question, for actually,
the exact person I would askthat question to is a dental
specialist accountant, becausethey will know the answer to
that 100, because that's whatthey do all day long cool.

Kimberley (53:31):
Anywho, sorry, James, but we do work alongside um
specialist accountants, so ifanybody needed any details for
somebody, we've got someone thatwe can pass you.
Pass you to, of course, do yourresearch with accountants.
It's all about um.

Dr James (53:43):
You know the person that you connect with as well,
but we can certainly provide youwith details that might be
useful yeah, yeah, fair enough,babbitt is chipped in so you can
have 95% ownershipnon-registered and five
directors with one percent, likeI guess.
Yeah, in that case, as long asthe majority of the directors
are gdc registered, I believe.
Anyway, definitely want to lookup, definitely, because if you

(54:05):
think about it, like, if youthink about the corporates and
stuff like that, there's no waythat 50 of their shareholders
are gdc registered.
Like it's just, that's just notgoing to be a thing.
Maybe the directors is how theyget around that, basically.
But anywho, next question isfrom jappy.
Good evening, jappy.
I was looking into a practicewhereby the current owner has a

(54:29):
license rather than a lease.
Okay, okay, this acts as athree-year term whereby the
practice owner or the landlord,which is a medical practice, has
to inform either party if thereare to be changes, slash
cessation to the license.
Will there be issues to receivethe lending?

(54:52):
Slash loan in this case yeah.

Kimberley (54:55):
So just to give you a bit of a feel for what that
might look like, um, it doesdepend because the, again, there
are nuances, nuances within theuk itself, so in particular
locations, um.
So they tend to lend over theterm of the lease.
So the property lease.
So when you purchase a practice, they'll largely be I don't
know say it's six yearsremaining, but actually, um,

(55:17):
when the practice completes, thesolicitors will have arranged
for you a 15-year lease, sothey'll tend to lend over that.
And what the banks will alsoconsider is nhs contracts and
things like that as well.
So you've mentioned licensedand things there.
So they will consider that whenlooking at the lend.
But, for example, harley Street,sometimes it's often quite

(55:39):
different there and there areflexibilities within their
policy.
So I would always say if thereis something that's a little bit
quirky, a little bit different,let us have a look at it and
let's see what the banks will do.
Because, again, there'sabsolutely no obligation.
We'll just request a couple ofbits from you.
If you can just give us a realoverview of what that looks like
, we can go to the banks withthat query because it can change

(56:02):
.
So I wouldn't like to say no.
For example, we've had it withdifferent types of NHS practices
and contracts where six monthsprior it was slightly different.
Within their policy, they'realways looking at it because
they do want to lend and thebanks are in real competition
with each other at the moment aswell, so this really supports
buyers.
It's great news for buyers,really.
So get in touch.

(56:23):
I know that our details are onthere, so if you're just booking
a financial consultation, let'shave a little bit chat more
about the details and see whatwe can do for you lovely jovley,
and I think we probably havetime for one more cue before the
final whistle.

Dr James (56:39):
So surya has just got in there.
Hi, surya.
Surya writes hi.
How about valuing the equipmentwith the practice?
I guess this comes from thepoint of view of the finance
side of things.
Do you do equipment finance aswell, Kimberley?
Is that what you do?
Yeah, we do equipment financeas well.

Kimberley (56:54):
Kimberley, is that what you do?
Yeah, we do equipment finance.
So it does sit with a slightlydifferent department, but it is
sort of within the same.
But I actually have expertisein that as well.
So you've come to the rightperson there.
So, with regards to theequipment finance itself,
firstly so, what I'd alwayssuggest is, if you're looking to
purchase anything, go to one ofthe hemishown reps and they'll
actually just arrange that foryou.

(57:15):
So it works a little bitdifferent to practice finance.
We actually have vendorpartners for that.
It's just a different type oflend, which just means you get
low rates based on the vendorpartnerships that we do have and
that will just be linked to the, the practice at the equipment
that you're really interested in.
So we can certainly do that foryou.
Um, amaya, more so on theequipment valuation piece, did

(57:37):
you want to cover that?

Maja (57:38):
yeah, yeah so.
So what I was going to say isthat there is usually I mean,
equipment is not necessarilygiven uh a huge kind of
proportion of the value in termsof the transition, for once the
practice is sold, so there's afixed amount that's allocated to
each surgery and I think that'sgenerally how the valuers do

(57:58):
that, and I can't rememberexactly what the amount is maybe
5,000 pounds per surgery orsomething along those lines and
if there is any specialistequipment so if there's a CT
scanner or if there's somereally high value microscope or
something like that that is ofsignificant value, that will be
named in the sale.
But majority of the value thatcomes through the actual sale

(58:22):
itself is in the goodwill.
So it's in the patients, then,and the flow of those patients
coming through the practice.

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Buying A Dental Practice - Here's What You Need To Know with Maja Thompson and Kimberley Parker [CPD Available]

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