Here's Why I Left Dentistry At 29 with Dr James Martin

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Komal (00:00):
Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of
the More Than Scrubs podcast.
Today I've got a very lovelyguest and I'm very excited to
introduce him.
It's James from Dentists whoInvest.
Can you introduce yourself tous if people don't know you
already?

Dr James (00:14):
Yeah, sure, absolutely .
So nice to meet everybody.
My name is Dr James Martin.
I am a dentist, like I'm sure alot of the audience are.
However, I had a little bit ofa unique career path, I suppose
you could say.
And how that came about was Ibasically started a platform
four years ago, four or fiveyears ago, and that's called
Dentist who Invests.
And really that was born out ofme going on every single course

(00:36):
under the sun with regards tofinance and business and
dentistry, and also my ownself-perpetuated learning into
that world as well, through thepurpose or means or intention of
bettering myself andunderstanding it a little bit
more.
And how can I say this?
I guess I picked up a fewthings along the way and maybe I
didn't really necessarily knowhow useful that was until I made

(00:56):
that Facebook group we talkedabout earlier called Dentist who
Invest, and it seemed to gosomewhere.
And then that became a wholehost of other things with time,
which is cool, which I'm sure wecan touch on as the podcast
progresses.

Dr Komal (01:07):
Yeah, I mean, I love hearing about your journey.
I think it's really unique andI think you've probably got
loads of nuggets to share withall of us.
So let's start with where itall began.
Oh, okay.
So, firstly, how long have youbeen qualified and where did you
qualify from?

Dr James (01:24):
Yeah, sure.
So I qualified in 2016 fromUniversity of Leeds and, let me
see, I was uh.
Well, I am originally fromNorthern Ireland, so I came over
to England and that was like myvery first.
I was probably one of the thirdor fourth times that I came to
England and it was like okayyeah, now.
I'm gonna live here.
Basically, and for the record,english culture is actually
really different to Northern.

Dr Komal (01:45):
Ireland Is it?
What's different you?

Dr James (01:46):
would not think it.
I think like the accent.

Dr Komal (01:49):
Yeah.

Dr James (01:50):
Sorry, sorry, the accent.
What I meant to say was theaccent is one, my accent,
although at the time I felt likeI spoke the Queen's English and
it was everybody else was theproblem, but in reflection it
was probably me when you get toEngland it's different.
It's probably real English,isn't it?
Yeah, you know that's kind ofwhere it originated from, but
anyway, so it was interesting,because the first few years I

(02:11):
genuinely didn't know whichwords were like Irish slang or
Irish lingo versus actual wordsthat are in the English
dictionary.

Dr Komal (02:16):
Basically, Give us an example.

Dr James (02:17):
Okay, it's sayings, it's words, words, but it's also
sayings and their connotationsand what people mean by words.
So one thing I always used tosay was I used to say, hey, how
are you doing this weather?
Right and what does that?
What does that mean to you?
Just out of curiosity how areyou doing?

Dr Komal (02:36):
and in this weather?
In this weather how are youfinding the weather?

Dr James (02:39):
yeah, this is the barrier that we had right,
because that actually means thisweather, means at this present
time.

Dr Komal (02:47):
Like the weather.

Dr James (02:48):
As we look out, the window is sunny right now, in
this very moment.
How are you?

Dr Komal (02:51):
I've actually never heard that before.
Yeah, there you go, right Isthat like a very common thing
where you come from.

Dr James (02:57):
It was common in my family.
But, for context, we all live inthe dark, rural Northern
Ireland so in hindsight Iprobably had quite an extreme
accent without realising it, youknow.
But anyway, as you can imagine,communication difficulties is a
mild occurrence.
It actually was, and you knowwhat.
I'll tell you another one.
I'll tell you another onebefore we move on.
You know the word.

(03:17):
I still can't pronounce thisword to this day.
You know, when you look, youlook at yourself and you see a
reflection, the object that youlook in the mirror the mirror,
the mirror, the mirror.
I still can't say that to thisday.
Well, do you know what Iprobably don't say?
Mirror as in if you're doing itlike London, it's mirror right,

(03:38):
mirror, mirror, mirror see, I'mstill trying, I'm still working
on that one, I'm still workingon that one, I'm still working
on that one.
But I say, the way you candistinguish if someone's from
Northern Ireland or not isthey'll say mer, mer, it's one
syllable.
Michael McIntyre actually has asketch on this he has a whole
entire sketch on this rightAbout how you can distinguish
that there's a Northern Irishperson in the room by getting

(03:58):
them to say that word.
So it only has one syllable inNorthern Ireland, right.

Dr Komal (04:01):
Do you know what it's easier?
So I might just start sayingMurr.
It's less effort, yeah.

Dr James (04:08):
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
We should make that a thing.

Dr Komal (04:10):
Great.
So we learned one thing todayhow to say Murr.

Dr James (04:13):
So far, so good.
Yeah, I hope this is living upto the level of intellectual
conversation.

Dr Komal (04:18):
Yeah, this is what I said.
This is what common men, thisis what common men.
All right, so tell me about, uh, dental school.
Right, so you went to leeds,did you?
Was it like a smooth journeywhen you were in dental school?
Was there anything that madeyou think like, okay, I don't
want to do this forever?
Or when did you know that youwanted to be more than scrubs?

Dr James (04:39):
that's the title of this podcast, right that's right
oh, boom, right, okay, okay,okay.
Now I'm linking it all together.
Yeah, so, anyway, when did I,when did I realize that?
Well, here's the thing.
I don't think.
I kind of realized it at thetime I in uni, I was like a bit
love hate was down and she likedon't want to do this, don't
want to do it.
But I was always like, nah, if Ijust keep going, I'll learn to

(05:00):
love it yeah and I guess I wason the fence and then even in FD
for the first six months.
I was like man, I just feel soout of my depth.
You know I definitely somepeople just take to it like a
duck to water, right, like, andthey just make it look a breeze,
right, and don't get me wrong,like I tried really hard and I
guess I was, I wasn't, I was allright at it no-transcript.

Dr Komal (05:57):
But yeah, I think most of us are normal and we we take
time to like perfect things,and you know.

Dr James (06:04):
Yeah, maybe it was just yeah, maybe I was just you
know average at it, I guess.

Dr Komal (06:09):
Which is again average , means majority, right.
Yeah, it's fine, it's all right.

Dr James (06:13):
And I guess people who do dentistry are quite clever.
So the average of those peopleI guess you know that's all
right.

Dr Komal (06:19):
That's saying something we kind of weigh it up
.

Dr James (06:25):
But how can I say this yeah, I liked it.
Um, it took a long time for mycrown perhaps to look that good.
You know what I mean?
Um, a lot of courses and whathave you.
After university I actually did, uh, that prof tipton course,
uh, the operative one, and mycrown, perhaps before and after
that.
I thought they were good andthey really that taught me what
a good crown prep should looklike and you think you're good
at crown preps until you buyloops.
It's so true, guys, if you're onthe other side of that, get

(06:45):
some loops and then yeah decidewhat your crown preps look like.
You can, you can decide.
At that point anyway, wedigress.
But yeah, where were we?
So?
Uh, nhfd didn't really like itthe first six months, but then I
got into it and I was like, ohmy god, I can do this.
There's I feel like everybodyjust has that, you know, week or
month where it comes togetherand you feel like you're
floundering, right, and then allthe learnings are just like,

(07:06):
yeah, like that.
And I remember that happening.
I was like, hey, you know,maybe this is all right, you
know, maybe I can do this, youknow.
And then I went into my firstjob.
That was NHS, and then I had ajob that was fully private.

Dr Komal (07:22):
And was this in Ireland or was it Northern?

Dr James (07:24):
Ireland or here.
This actually all took place inYorkshire, okay, leeds and
Bradford, yeah, basically.
And then what happened next?
Let me think, yeah, I did likedentistry, but here was the big
thing, right, here was like thebiggie, okay.
And this is how I felt.
I don't know how many peoplefeel this way Maybe you do, I
don't know.
But basically I used to comehome every weekend and I used to

(07:44):
be like, right, okay, greatweek.
You know, we did loads of, wedid loads of fill-ins.
They all looked really good.
Uh, like some days I wouldleave the clinic and I'd be
buzzing because I was like, yeah, everything just went amazing,
right.
But I guess what reallybothered me about dentistry was
you could do in any other job.
I feel, if you do something 99of the time and you're

(08:04):
incredible right, that is a goodenough hit ratio for you to be
good at your job, right.
But one thing that alwaysbugged me about dentistry was I
was like you can literally justdo one filling or have one bad
patient interaction.
You have one off moment andcost you so much you know, and
listen, I'm not uh, you know,it's just an observation.
It's the nature of the beast,right, like that's how it is

(08:26):
right.
So it's just part and parcel ofthe game, I guess, when it
comes to dentistry.
But that did bug me, I mustadmit, and I was like man, this
just seems really unfair.
You know what I mean.
But then the other thing thatgot me and this wasn't really a
dentistry thing, this was more acareer thing, this was just how
I felt.
That got me and this wasn'treally a dentistry thing, this
was more a career thing.
This was just how I felt I usedto come home every weekend.
I distinctly remember this.

(08:46):
I do my 9-5 and I always feltlike then they would go out and
have some food or do whatever,and there was always part of me
that was just like do I just dothis like forever?
Is this, yeah, relatable?
Is this?
Is this what I do now?
Is this like my life?

Dr Komal (09:06):
And you need to do it for another 40 odd years as well
.

Dr James (09:09):
Yeah, and it almost it was.
You know, like you can learnwell and that's great, and it
was almost like that actuallyfelt hollow.
I was like right well, on paper, if you just talk about this,
this sounds incredible and thissounds like someone's dream life
.
But I was just like this isactually not enough, like I want
these other things.
What I used to channel thatenergy into okay, which kind of

(09:32):
how can I say foreshadowseverything that happens next was
reading books on finance andgoing on courses okay, because
that was from early.

Dr Komal (09:39):
Would you say yeah, because?

Dr James (09:40):
I was like, uh, that was pretty much a
post-university thing.
And I was like, right, well,let me use this time for
something.
And that was the how can I saythis?
The initiator or the precursorto everything that happened next
.
It was all this work that I wasputting in without necessarily

(10:01):
realizing it, whereas any saneperson would have just I don't
know started a dental practiceor I don't know.
I don't know what they wouldhave done?

Dr Komal (10:07):
Would you say it was more like a hobby that you
started to read about financestuff?
Or did you have, like, okay, avision of I'm a dentist, but I
don't want to do this full timeand that's why I'm reading First
?

Dr James (10:20):
one, first one the finance stuff purely came.
The finance and learning aboutthe business side of dentistry
purely, purely, purely cameexcuse me from wanting to.
It purely came from theexpectation that I thought to
myself right, I'm in the realworld.
Now this is what adults do.

Dr Komal (10:37):
I mean, you've got to know this stuff, right?

Dr James (10:40):
You do.

Dr Komal (10:41):
It's crazy that people don't.

Dr James (10:43):
You do and you know when you're on the other side of
it.
That's when you can fullyappreciate how useful it is.
And, by the way, just one quickthing on that I remember the
very first finance book I readand I had all these weird
beliefs about investing and howmoney works that were just not
true and I never would havedisparaged those or removed
those until I started reading.

(11:03):
And one of them was I was like,hey, isn't this stuff just for
like slick ricks in the city orsomething like that, like us
normies don't really have toknow it.
It's almost like a little bitpretentious learning about this
stuff and that that put me offfor so long until one of my
friends I've got to thank thisguy yeah, I have thanked him
many times since was like youhave to read this.

(11:24):
It was that how to own theworld book.
Okay, that everybody bangs onabout.
Well, I bang on about anyway.
But yeah, it was that book.
Have you heard of it?

Dr Komal (11:32):
I have heard of it, but I haven't read it.
And I think I've heard of itbecause of you, because you've
probably spoken about it beforein your podcast yeah yup, sounds
about right.

Dr James (11:40):
But yeah, it was that book.
And then I was like, right, wow, he puts it so well in here and
the one key lesson in that book, the biggest thing that blew my
mind, was that if you don't doanything as in, all your money's
in a bank account and inflationis eating it yeah, it feels
like you're safe, it feels likeyou're not risking anything, but
actually that's the situationwhere you're risking everything.
That's the riskiest positionthat you can be in and in a

(12:01):
weird learning how to grow yourmoney with an index fund not
financial advice, but learninghow to grow your money with an
index fund and having your moneyin such a fund is actually a
safer place to be.
It's actually safer to have itinvested than not invested.
And I was like, right, thatflips it on its head.
I understood that at that pointthat actually I have to do
something.
Actually, if I don't doanything, I in big trouble,

(12:22):
whereas before I thought whywould I risk it?

Dr Komal (12:25):
then I realized that actually I was risking it by
inaction yeah, 100% agree, and Ithink that we have that
perspective, because I know it'slike conspiracy, but they don't
want us to know, they don'twant us to kind of feel like
it's an important thing.
And why are we not taught at aschool?

Dr James (12:42):
why are we not taught at?

Dr Komal (12:43):
uni, right, um?
So I think yeah, what we'retaught is save your money in
your bank account and everythingwill be fine.

Dr James (12:50):
Well, if that well, my theory on that is that
basically, they don't.
You know, this might come acrossas a little tinfoil hat wearing
, but I'm gonna say yeah, that'swhat I mean they, they don't
want, they don't want you toknow too much, because then you
beat the system like that'sliterally what it does, like why
would they empower people to dothat?
They want people to participatein the system and further

(13:12):
society and be have employeesfor someone else, right, because
business owners need that.
So, yeah, that is a really goodpoint and I agree and that's my
theory.
There's actually I actually reada book on that, and who was it
by?
It was by like what's the guyLike Henry Ford in his book?
He literally says this in hisbook and he's like that's what

(13:34):
he.

Dr Komal (13:34):
That's surprising.

Dr James (13:35):
I would think he'd want people to, or maybe it was
like John D Rockefeller orsomething like that and he was
like they literally designed,like he actually played a role
in designing the school systemand he's like I don't want this.

Dr Komal (13:46):
Yeah, that's what I meant.
I thought they would want theschool system not to tell you
what happens.
Is that what it's about?

Dr James (13:52):
Yeah, I think it was a biography rather than an
autobiography, so it wasn't himadmitting it.
It was just that the biographydocumented the fact that they
literally designed the schoolsystem to make employees and not
make competitors for him.
Anyway, food for thought.

Dr Komal (14:08):
We're not saying that this is.
I mean we could discuss thisfor days and I feel like loads
of you guys could get involvedin that discussion, because I
feel like, again, anyone who'sprobably interested in the stuff
you have to say they probablyagree with this as well, isn't
it?
We all have a kind of similarthought process.

Dr James (14:30):
I would say, if you're interested, yeah, and you know.
I hope that when I say thatstuff I don't come across like
I'm diminishing anyone oranything.
It's just food for thought andit's useful to have all the
facts before we decide what webelieve.
And hearing alternative stuffis really useful, and that's.
I'm not saying that I'm full-onconspiracy theorist.
I actually.
You know, when you get thoseconspiracy theorists and they
call themselves red pill, yeah,right and uh, you know the
matrix reference, right?
Hopefully everybody in theaudience knows the matrix
reference there and theirversion of being red pill is

(14:52):
they just disagree witheverything the government says
they just automatically believethe opposite and then they think
they're like woke or so muchmore superior to everybody else.
I'm not that, but I definitelythink it's a good idea to
critically think abouteverything that's yeah, 100%
agree.

Dr Komal (15:06):
And then when do you feel like you started thinking
like that?
So it's after uni, after yougraduated, you thought you just
need to know where to put yourmoney.

Dr James (15:15):
Is that is that kind of where it started, I think
it's one of those things it'smore a continuum rather than a
binary thing are.
Are you with me?
I definitely think it startswith considering what's out
there.
I mean, you've seen Andrew Tateand stuff like that.
He would consider himselfred-pilled and I'm sure there's
lots of Andrew Tate fans outthere and people who don't think

(15:36):
that.

Dr Komal (15:37):
You guys don't listen to this podcast.

Dr James (15:40):
Andrew Tate fans, if you're out there, if you're
listening, perhaps you are knowsturn it off.
Yes, I have a few friendssometimes, you know, we they
tell me they're Andrew Tate fansand it catches me a little bit
off guard.
It just surprises me, you know.
But anyway, whatever,somebody's into horses, for
horses I'm not a fan for therecord, but that's okay.

(16:02):
But anyway, but I'm not a fanfor the record, but that's okay,
but anyway, but where was itgoing with that?
Where was I going with that?

Dr Komal (16:06):
You said he's red pill .

Dr James (16:07):
No, no, no, no.
I said what I meant to say wasI think he would consider
himself it right, whereas to methat's a good example of it
being taken too far.
Right, but yeah, back to whatwe were saying a second ago.
It's more of a continuum, right?
It's like, hey, you know what,you learn one thing, and then
you learn the next thing, andthe next thing, and the next

(16:28):
thing, and I get.
I definitely think that was thestart of the journey on me, not
that I would consider myself,you know, any sort of expert on
these sorts of matters oranything like that, but I
definitely think I've madeprogress and learned a lot of
things and see thingsdifferently.
Hopefully I've made someprogress, that's all.

Dr Komal (16:43):
I mean we have evidence of it on your podcast,
right?
So the amount of episodesyou've done and the amount
probably you've learned fromyour guests, I I like you could
just say that you've grown a lotfrom where you started, right?

Dr James (16:55):
I.
I definitely think that I'velearned a lot of stuff that made
me see things differently, andyou've taught people stuff maybe
not directly from yourknowledge, but like by having
those people on.

Dr Komal (17:06):
Yeah, like I can say, so I'll tell you my switch yeah
it was I watched um.
I will teach you to be rich onNetflix by, you know, ramit
Sethi oh, I've heard of it.

Dr James (17:16):
I've heard of it literally a switch.

Dr Komal (17:18):
I don't know what it was it was.
It was just about like verybasics of investing and very
basics of how not to be in debt,yeah, and I was like, oh shit,
like that's really interesting.
And then after that, I probablystarted reading some books,
started listening to a podcast,a few other podcasts as well,
and I think yeah, I think it'sbeen amazing when you kind of

(17:42):
learn it and the the switchflips, it's crazy, don't you
think?

Dr James (17:48):
yeah, you know, you've actually just reminded me of
something you've heard of grantcardone no again, he's a little
bit like alpha.
He's not everyone's cup of tea,okay, and he's a little bit like
gary v, but extremely alpha,all right.
And he has this show and it'scalled oh, what's it called?
It's called something along thelines of seven day millionaire
or something like that.

(18:08):
I can't remember the exact nameright, but basically the whole
point, the whole purpose of theshow is he goes to these random
towns in like america or ineurope, and the brief is I'm
gonna be a millionaire and oh,yeah, I get the concept, yeah,
yeah and he.
He doesn't do it every time,yeah, but a lot of the times he
does, he makes a million.

Dr Komal (18:28):
You just need to know the blueprint of how to do it.

Dr James (18:31):
It's because he has the skill set right and you know
what he does right the episodesthat I have watched because he
can do all these random businessskills and they're like really
high leverage skills.
So a lot of the time he startsout he just goes and finds
businesses like car dealerships,and he's like need someone to
write your emails for a month?
Yeah.
And they're like yeah, and he'slike, well, I charge 20 000

(18:52):
pounds, what, what we're gonnado?
Where do we go from here?
And they're just like, yeah,okay, and he does it.
And he sells like five cars andit's worth it for them, right?
So, um, he's got the skill ofcopywriter.
And then he takes the money andhe puts it.
He like puts it in a realestate and borrows a shitload of
money as well and leverages it.
And he just has all theserandom skills.

(19:13):
And it just showed me just theonly thing to round that off was
it just shows me that wealth isa skill set absolutely.

Dr Komal (19:20):
And again, it's something that we're not even
told that it's a.
It's a skill you can learn,like you know, with dentistry,
crown preps.
It's like a skill that you, youknow, evolve and you learn it.
But I don't think anyone evertold me that finance was.
Was that right?

Dr James (19:36):
but now we know now, we know so when did you, james?

Dr Komal (19:40):
firstly, with investing yourself.
Um, you learned that obviouslyit's something that is better
than just the money sitting inyour bank account.
So it's kind of you'remonetizing the cash that you're
earning from work, right?
Um, when did you learn that youcould monetize in other ways
what you're doing, your love forfinance?

Dr James (19:59):
oh, I see Again.
Something that I only reallyrealized, I guess, when I
started the online communitythat I was talking about just a
second ago, because I just madethe Facebook group, is basically
I had this hiatus out ofdentistry because I had to have
surgery on my knee and I waslike, right, what am I going to
do with this time?
So I made this Facebook groupDentistry Investor we were

(20:22):
talking about just a second agoand then I was posting content
on there just every two weeks orsomething like that?

Dr Komal (20:27):
What was the content?
Was it just stuff you findinteresting, stuff, you learn?

Dr James (20:31):
It was really basic stuff like this is an ISA, this
is a pension.
This is a worked example of ifyou invest in an ISA at X amount
every year and have Y rate ofreturn, if you reduce your fees
by one percent it can be, thatamount more, something along
those lines, that you can, ifanybody wants to, right, if
anybody wants to be like a realhow can I say this look into the

(20:53):
uh, retro or you know historyor path uh of down to invest.
If you go to my youtube channel, okay, and basically you just
scroll back far enough, you'llsee all these videos.

Dr Komal (21:02):
There's loads of them making videos about I was yeah
because what was the?
What was the purpose of doingit like?
Was it literally you, you justlike it's fun and you thought
you could share that knowledge,or was there like a bigger
picture?

Dr James (21:14):
I mean I thought it would be fun to make content.
I always thought it would befun to make, I always wanted to
do it, but I just never had time.
So I was just doing, yeah, alltheir stuff.
So I just went and did it and,um, yeah, what happened next?
And then I guess that when Istarted seeing people join the
group, I was like, right, wow,this is cool.
You know, people obviously wantthis and it's growing yeah and

(21:36):
that was when that encouraged me, I guess.
And then, um, what happened next?
Then I realized that this couldbe some sort of business when
basically, people contact this.
People started contacting meand they were like, hey, can you
show me how to do this thing?
Like I've watched this video, Istill don't know how to do it.
I mean, I have an idea how todo it, but it would be helped

(21:56):
better if you just did it for mewas it to do with investing
yeah, initially it was just likesimple crypto accounts.
Okay, like that.

Dr Komal (22:04):
right, I was like can you just like set?

Dr James (22:07):
up Binance for me and I would, and that was how that
progressed.
And then we started makingcourses and then we made a
learning platform that showspeople how they can set up very
simple accounts like items andpensions and things along those
lines.

(22:32):
That was when I met my businesspartner, luke, who's an ifa, um,
so that was how it progressed,and then we basically realized
that some people who wanted thecourse were just not right for
it at all, as in they.
What they really needed was afinancial planner or financial
advice.
Effectively, some people youcan educate there is scope to do
that and really that works bestwhenever they only need some
very basic accounts.
But sometimes what somebodyneeds is just incredibly complex

(22:52):
and there's a very high chancethat they won't be able to do it
properly without some guidance.
So that was what inspired us tomove things to the next level
and actually get regulated withthe FCA, which is what took us
the whole of last year.
So now deal with the FCA, whichis what took us the whole of
last year.
So now we're live on that.
So between those two things,that's what thank you it was.
That was the mission, let metell you.
Uh, but we are there and I,which is great and between those
two things.
That's what keeps me busy what?

Dr Komal (23:12):
what do you call yourself at the moment?
I know we don't like puttingpeople in boxes, but can I flip
that on its head right?

Dr James (23:19):
can I spin that right around and ask you what would
you from the outside looking in?
What do you reckon?

Dr Komal (23:26):
honestly, I don't know .
That's what I'm asking youbecause if you say like a
dentist who invests because youknow, like you, you can't give
financial advice.
Is that right?
Or you can now?

Dr James (23:41):
me personally, no, yeah, but my partner I would say
like an unofficial financialadvisor.
But I don't know what the wordfor that is have you heard the
term finfluencer?
Have you heard?

Dr Komal (23:51):
yeah, I like it.
Is that what you want?

Dr James (23:54):
no, I wouldn't say that that kind of has a little
bit of a no.
No, I don't think it should.

Dr Komal (23:59):
But yeah, I mean, look , you've got the correct people
on your side, right, so you'renot just a random person just
giving out.

Dr James (24:07):
Well, let me share this.
Let me share this.
So for the record, I was jokingabout the fin finisher thing.
We definitely want to move awayfrom that, that's for sure.
But you know one thing that theFCA really liked like they
loved it when we showed it tothem.
Whenever we were inconversation with them last year
, we were like guys like youknow, there's all these people

(24:30):
out there who are sharing thesenot so responsible messages
whenever it comes to finance andwhat have you, and they're
trying to show people how to doall these racy things which they
shouldn't really be doing orjust aren't a thing.
Yeah, the fca are not a fan ofpeople promoting irresponsible
messages when they have noactual qualification to do so.

Dr Komal (24:46):
Is that right?

Dr James (24:47):
No qualification and, worse yet, zero education on it.
It's just apparent, you knowwhenever you see it.
Therefore, let me see, and whenwe showed them, obviously a lot
of those people can havefollowings and they're on, I
don't know, like X is notoriousfor it.
Twitter and TikTok are thego-to platforms for those people

(25:08):
, right?
yeah and then when we showedthem denison fest and we were
like you know, guys, you don'tlike this.
Yeah, you don't like whenpeople do this irresponsibly.
So we actually have thisfollowing like right here and we
want to do this responsibly, sosurely this is an opportunity
to fight this, to helpcounteract this right.
And they were like man, that isso true that they love that,

(25:29):
they absolutely love that,because usually it's the people
with responsible messages whowho don't have followings.
Yeah, it's usually the otherway around.
Yeah, yeah, there's someexceptions to that.
Like you've seen thoseyoutubers niche and stuff like
that.
Yeah, you know, like there aresome people who are trying to,
you know, do it properly.

Dr Komal (25:45):
Yeah.

Dr James (25:46):
Not within density per se, but anyway, where was it
going with that?
And the other thing that theyreally liked is that we had one
of the partners had experiencerunning these exact firms before
.
So yeah, between those twothings, that was what got them.

Dr Komal (26:00):
That's what I was going to say.
If you didn't have the correctpeople on your side, would they
have accepted that?

Dr James (26:07):
No, because they're very keen that if someone is set
not for the first time, that atleast one of their partners has
ran these sorts of firms before, or at least has you know three
, four years.

Dr Komal (26:17):
Which is fair enough.
Yeah, completely reasonable,completely reasonable, okay,
cool, and did you have anyonethroughout this journey who was
like influencing your path, orwere you just winging it by
yourself?

Dr James (26:29):
great question and the answer is yes.
I've always had, I've alwayshad a mentor at any one time.
Apart from recently, actually,over the last 12 months or so,
I've not really had a mentor orsomeone in the background and I
just have this.
How can I say this?
You know, I don't think thatjust knowing a little bit about
finance and money would beenough purely to grow Denison,

(26:51):
invest and run it and operate it.
There's actually other skillsin there as well as in I.
One of my coaches once was thisAmerican guy and he just knew he
was a Facebook groups coach.
He just knew everything thatwas his literal job.

Dr Komal (27:03):
Okay, that was his literal job.

Dr James (27:03):
He knew everything.
A Facebook groups coach, hejust knew everything.
That was his literal job.
Okay, that was his literal job,he knew everything about
Facebook groups and I thought Iknew how Facebook groups work.
And then I met this guy and itwas like on a whole other level.

Dr Komal (27:11):
How did you find him?

Dr James (27:13):
I liked him.
We kind of ran out of things totalk about after a little while
because it was all aboutFacebook groups, as you can
imagine, but I did learn somereally cool stuff as in how to
use them and how to make themthe most engaging and what have
you?
That was his primary goal.
I've always had mentors, lots ofdifferent mentors, over the
years.
I feel like there's a sayingthat I really love you either

(27:33):
pay with time, you pay withmoney, and for me, I'll pay with
money is condensed time, right,not to get too woo-woo and
philosophical, it's literallycondensed time.
So it's like one investment isto go and stick it in the S&P
10% every year.
Brilliant, whoop.
That's excellent, and peopleshould totally do that if they
want some sort of passive returnon their money, if they're
happy to be a little bit moreproactive.

(27:54):
If you invest in knowledge, I'dlike to think there's lots of
things out there that you canand it's tax deductible as well,
you know.
So for me that's a lot of whatI've done is invested in those
sorts of people and theneventually probably the last one
that I had, I was like I kindof know even though we've just
started working together forlike two months, kind of know

(28:15):
what you're going to say, likeyou're not really speeding
anything up.

Dr Komal (28:18):
Okay, you're just kind of You've reached that level.

Dr James (28:26):
I feel like I just I don't need a mentor, I am a
mentor.
Oh wow.
I feel like I reached thatpoint where it wasn't as
valuable to me anymore, becauseI had a very clear idea and was
like right, we're here, we wantto get to here and.
I know that we can do that.
If we just keep repeating whatwe're doing, there's no way to
speed this up.
And, if anything, it wasvaluable to learn that from him,
because he was like hey, youknow, you should just keep doing
this and you're like, yeah, Iknow thanks, but yes I like that

(28:49):
and I want to put message outthere.

Dr Komal (28:52):
Just that's really spoken to me, because you know
things don't just happen, you doneed sometimes help.
Or you know, you didn't justgrow this facebook group out of
nowhere, you had to put workinto it, you had to put time
into it.
You had to put time into itmoney into it.
Right, it didn't just happen.
So I think that's a big one.
From the outside, when you seesomething like that, you're

(29:12):
probably like, oh, he just gotreally lucky and you know, he
just got loads of people to joinin.
It was engaging, just like that, but you put work into that.

Dr James (29:20):
Thanks, yeah, I did, and it was a lot.
It was a lot, a lot, but yeah,all worth it, all worth it okay,
so circle back to what wouldyou describe yourself as then?

Dr Komal (29:31):
I don't oh just give me like a, like a brief idea not
getting out of that one.

Dr James (29:38):
That was no.
I'm kidding um what would Idescribe myself as?

Dr Komal (29:43):
the reason I'm asking is because the point of this
podcast is anyone that'slistening who might want to
follow your footsteps.
So we might have a dentistwho's super interested in maybe
not particularly finance, likeit could be anything, but that
they just want to do what you do.
So how can they be like you?
And to be like you, I guessthey kind of need to know what

(30:05):
it is.
How do you describe yourselffirst?

Dr James (30:08):
you know what?
Honestly, I think there is somuch to be said by just not
overly deliberating on whatyou're going to do next and just
providing you're not going toleave yourself high and dry.
Yeah, seeing everything as alearning experience.
You there's a saying that Ilove.
You either win or you learn.
I think that's so cool like thatlike the losses are not losses,

(30:28):
they're learning points, right,and it's like, yeah, okay, the
more you can do, that is thefaster you can iterate and just
not get down right.
And I don't think I have anyunique talent or skill, other
than I just don't get down ifsomething doesn't go the way
that I would expect, and I justsee it as a learning point and
it opens other doors, ifanything.
When something doesn't maybe gohow I planned out, I'm like

(30:51):
I've been through that so manytimes and I'm just like I just
know something cool is going tohappen.
Now I almost like weirdly, getexcited.
Honestly, it's just happened tome so many times.
And then you make progress,don't you?
You?
And you just keep going, andyou keep going to answer your
question.
What have I seen myself as?
Definitely still a dentist.
I definitely would say that.
I would say dentist.

(31:13):
I would say after that I'mgoing to have to really think on
that one.

Dr Komal (31:19):
I'm going to have to really chew on that.

Dr James (31:21):
I would say, yeah, wow , there's a lot to think about
there.
I would say, I would saysomeone who maybe is I don't
like the word entrepreneur, youknow, I just don't like that
word.

Dr Komal (31:35):
You like that word um because that is what you're
doing, maybe maybe.

Dr James (31:41):
I just think it has a connotation of being a little
bit big-headed, doesn't it?
Or a little bit like flash,which is not really me.
Okay, yeah, but you know what Ithink?
I'm gonna go with that, forlack of a better word yeah, I
think that's.

Dr Komal (31:55):
I don't think it's a bad word at all.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So a dentist slash entrepreneur?

Dr James (32:02):
yeah, okay great if you're a UK dentist and you wish
to add to your verifiable CPDportfolio for this learning
cycle, it's worth knowing thatDentist who Invest has over a
thousand minutes of freeverifiable CPD on our website.
Just simply head over towwwdentistwhoinvestcom and hit

(32:25):
the video slash CPD tab and youcan go right ahead and help
yourself to as much cpd as youneed.
You'll also find a link thattakes you straight to the cpd
section of the denis2investwebsite in the podcast
description so what if someoneis listening?

Dr Komal (32:47):
what skills do you think they need to have to be
like you?
I know you just said you don'thave any particular skills
except for just being positive,but I don't believe that's true.
I think there's a little bitmore to that interesting.

Dr James (33:00):
Um, I think, uh, I think so much of it is mindset.
You know, I really do like, do,like, I think that I mean I
like how you phrase the questionis what I would comment on
there as well, because all thesethings are just skills, right,
like, if you look at people whohave done really well, they've
just learned different skills.

(33:21):
Everything boils down to askill.
Effectively, even resilience isa skill because you train it.
It's like a muscle, right?
So, yeah, I like how you framedthat question.
And actually, you know, I wastalking to one of my partners
the other day, right, and wewere talking it's a long story.
We were basically talking abouthow we were going to, uh, you
know, think about what we'redoing long term.

(33:41):
And he was like, well, we needto just speak to these people,
these, these bods, thesecorporate bods, right, and they
will tell us.
And then I, the exact thing Isaid to him was I was like right
, and that is such a highleverage skill.
It's so niche, but it's a veryhigh leverage skill, right, and
I know when we learn that, thesooner we learn that is, the
sooner we can hit our goals andbuild something awesome, right,

(34:13):
and that's the exact thing thatcaught my eye about it, right?
I was like I want to do that tolearn the skill, right and
everything.
Everything boils down to a skill.
If you want to talk, if we'relooking at it through the lens
of money, there's high leverage,there's low leverage skills,
medium leverage skills, highleverage skills.
You want to learn high leverageskills, right?
Uh, you know, that's not theonly lens through which we
regard life, but saying, aswe're talking, we're talking
about the subject of money yeahthat would be it.
So so, to answer what you said asecond ago, I definitely think
so much of it is how you see theworld.
I just think that you have tohave an attitude where it's like

(34:35):
I'm literally going to die onthis hill before I give up.
You know, this will, this will.
I feel like, if I just keepgoing, that I will either make
this awesome thing.
I feel like, if I just keepgoing, that I will either make
this awesome thing, thisincredible thing that I've
always wanted to make, and thereis just no other reality that

(34:56):
you'd be willing to accept.
So I definitely think that thatis part of it.
It's just having your mindcompletely made up that you're
going to do something becausethere's no other possible
acceptable reality for you.
So I think that's a skill, andthen you know, what you know is
actually one of the biggest onesas well.
I think personally and it wassomething I thought I was really
good at for a long timewhenever I was in dentistry but

(35:19):
I just wasn't that good and Ilearned lots of things during my
career as a clinical dentistthrough going on courses and
through speaking to people, butalso, as well as that, after I
started.
Dentistry Invest iscommunication.

Dr Komal (35:32):
Yeah, I was going to say that about you and it's so.

Dr James (35:35):
it sounds like such a wishy-washy thing.
And I remember when I was indentistry again huge limited
belief of mine I looked atpeople.
I looked at people who did the,you know, spoke on
communication and I was like Idon't even know how to do that.
Everyone knows how to talkright.
And I look back and that was theexact thing that I needed.
That was the precise thing thatI needed, but I just didn't
realize it.
It's one of those things.

(35:56):
It's really important.
So few people realize howimportant it is.
The second I realized that thatwas such an important skill,
and the second, that I wasopen-minded to becoming a better
communicator, was the secondthat a whole lot of good stuff
came into my life and I justfeel like it's such a more
healthy mindset, instead ofbelieving that we're the best at
anything, to just alwaysconsider ourselves to be

(36:16):
learners.
And genuinely, if I could lookback, if I could go back and say
one thing to myself, I'd sayJames, be more open-minded in
that front, because you have alot to learn and it can really
help you.

Dr Komal (36:25):
I think you probably have been if you would go back
and say that to yourself.

Dr James (36:30):
Probably have been.

Dr Komal (36:31):
Open-minded right.

Dr James (36:33):
I hope so.
I think that version of Jamesdefinitely could have been more
open-minded when he was 26.
Yeah, definitely, okay, we'reall, even I right.
Most people consider themselvesto be, but are they in reality
True?

Dr Komal (36:48):
And we all have to work on again another skill yes,
and I was going to say anotherone coming off from
communication, is networking,because we've had that from
quite a lot of guests on here aswell how they've thrived and
like made their businesssuccessful is literally just
talking to anyone and likeeverybody who will listen to you
, right?
I think that's a big skill.

Dr James (37:09):
Can I add to that?

Dr Komal (37:11):
Yeah.

Dr James (37:11):
Here is the thing the number of things I've learned
that I just didn't think werepossible just through talking to
people.
That made me completelyre-evaluate what I thought I
knew.
And it's one of those types ofknowledge you can't actually
really get it from books.
It's too dynamic.
It's too it types of knowledgeyou can't actually really get it
from books.
It's too dynamic.
It's too.
It's too, when I say dynamic,you write a book on some stuff

(37:32):
and six months later it's outthere.
Exactly.
It's now Exactly.
Whereas you sometimes meetthese people and they've got
their boots on their ground,they're doing it every day and
they're like, hey, you know youcan do it like this and you yeah
, you have to.
It's not easy, because it'shard to find those conversations
.
You just have to put yourselfin situations where that's
likely to happen.
But that never happens unlessyou're willing to put yourself

(37:56):
out there and talk to people andbe open minded.

Dr Komal (37:57):
Yeah, so on that, tell me how you did that.
So, for example, you're wellconnected with quite a lot of
people that aren't just dentists, right?
You've got loads of differenttypes of people in your circle,
so how did that start out?

Dr James (38:13):
well, you know, that's very kind you say, and, um, I
don't necessarily know that I am, but if I, if I have made any
connections, if, if that hashappened to any degree, I would
attribute that to that.
The first way that that startedto happen was being out there

(38:33):
on social media, yes, so thatpeople would see you.

Dr Komal (38:36):
And they know how to get in touch with you, right,
yeah?

Dr James (38:39):
And that's the upside to social media that I never
really realized until I was onthe other side of it.
And it's like people just sendyou stuff in DMs and sometimes
these are like awesomeopportunities, you know, and
certainly I think that that'sone of the upsides of having a
following and having people knowyou.
And then the second crucialcomponent to that, which is also
really important and peopledon't do enough, if you ask me

(39:01):
is I have a rule that if anyonetries to talk to me, I will talk
to them.

Dr Komal (39:05):
That's nice yeah.

Dr James (39:07):
And this is the thing you know, like someone literally
just has to DM me and I'll getback to them as soon as I can.
You know, if I'm swamped I'llalways get back to them.
Yeah, I will.
If I'm swamped, I'll make thetime at some stage.
And you know thoseconversations.
Sometimes it's just a hello.
Sometimes there's somethingimmediately obvious that you can

(39:30):
do, but I would honestly saythat 50, 60 percent of the time
there's some way to collab orthere's some way to do something
, or they know someone, oryou're able to help them out, or
they teach you somethingwithout even realizing it.
That is a hack to life rightthere.
And you know, one thing I wouldalso say, just to run that off,
is that if you can try your veryhardest, very, very, very

(39:52):
hardest to keep as many peopleas possible on good terms, yeah
that is also helps, because thenthey say good things about you,
even when I'm gonna say this,even when someone ah, they maybe
rub you up a little bit thewrong way, right, because often
they don't realize they've doneit right.
Okay, the trick is to just notreact.
And then the thing is, you know, three months later you've
probably forgotten about ityourself.

(40:12):
To be honest with you, right?
But if you did react in thatmoment, in like the heat of the
moment, that somehow soursthings slightly.
So, yeah, level, you know, 4dchess move in life, god, 4d
chess move in life, god, tier,god, tier.
Networking move, yes, is To tryvery best To always have things
On good terms.

Dr Komal (40:31):
Yeah, totally agree with that one.
Yeah, so important and that'slike a.
It's a skill again that youhave to learn, because some
people they're like hot headedor they want to Kind of say
things as soon as they hear.
You know Retaliate.
But yeah, just sleep on itsometimes and then get back to
the person, right?
Have you learned that the hardway?

Dr James (40:51):
I think we all have right, Even as kids.
Right, that's like a playgroundthing.

Dr Komal (40:56):
I think we're probably learning it.

Dr James (40:58):
Probably we're being reminded of it.
That's for sure, that's forsure.

Dr Komal (41:01):
Okay, so I just want to walk through your timeline.
Right, so you graduated 2016.
You were a dentist full-time.
For how long?

Dr James (41:11):
yeah, full-time.
Um.
So let me see all the way up tocoronavirus, yeah.
And then you know what, for meafter coronavirus it kind of
just dentistry was never reallyquite the same for me, like I
just hated that yeah attire thatwe used to wear, I think it
switched for a lot of peoplelike it just changed a lot of
people's trajectory, don't youthink?
I just saw things differentlyafter that.

Dr Komal (41:33):
And was it during COVID that you started doing
like, started focusing more onfinance stuff?
When did you make your group?
Was it in COVID or before that?

Dr James (41:42):
The initial learning about finance.
I'd planted the seeds basicallysince I'd left uni.
It was very much.
I think it was like 2017 um2016 2017.

Dr Komal (41:59):
That was a personal voyage that I was on, yeah,
without any real clear ambition.
I mean, it's the goal.

Dr James (42:01):
It was just financial freedom to learn how to do it
myself.
Yeah, because I in my head Iwas like this is what adults do.
Yeah, I'm like if I don't dothis, it's a good way to spend
your time yeah, so valuable bestway.
And I did not know that until Idid it.
Yeah, because I was, like itseemed to me just as attractive
as any other pursuit, really.
But anyway, um, what happenednext?
Uh, I was in dentistry for four, yeah, up till 2020, and after

(42:25):
that I went, I had my kneeoperation.
I went back to dentistry forlike six, seven months but, then
I was trying to juggle was thatkind of part-time that was
actually full-time okay withyour knee up post knee up all
right, but the knee was you knowI could walk on it at that
point, okay I mean.
And so that was.
You know I'd had my threemonths of recovery, basically.
And then what happened next wasI had to juggle Dentist who

(42:50):
Invest and also juggle dentistry.

Dr Komal (42:55):
Okay.
So when did Dentist who Investstart?
Was that in COVID or before?

Dr James (43:01):
To give you the timeline.
So COVID was March to July 2020.
And then I started DentistryInvest September 2020.
And then I recovered from theknee thing I mentioned and then
I went back to dentistryDecember 2020.

Dr Komal (43:22):
Okay, so in those three months do you feel like
you had a bit of time to focuson Dentistry Invest?
Oh yeah, big time.

Dr James (43:27):
Like I don't think it would ever have grown if that
never would have happened,Because I literally just didn't
have anything else to do and Iwas like right, well, I'm just
going to make content.
Yeah, fair and make videos andbecause I had all that time.

Dr Komal (43:40):
That's cool.

Dr James (43:45):
Yeah, so it's saying that I love.
Do you like sayings?

Dr Komal (43:48):
I do.

Dr James (43:48):
I love sayings.
Right, I'll give you anothersaying at the end, which I think
is really cool, but anyway, theone that just sprung to mind
just there was luck is whenpreparation meets opportunity.

Dr Komal (43:59):
Exactly.
Yeah, because if you didn'thave one of those those, the
other one would happen.

Dr James (44:10):
Right it's, it was the prep without realizing it, and
then that was I always.
I really do genuinely believethat if something bad happens,
it's usually in vertical bad, orif it's bad at the time, it's
usually the genesis of somethingawesome afterwards otherwise
we'd all just fail usually whenthat happens, I always think
immediately after I'm likesomething cool is going to

(44:31):
happen in a weird way right, I'mgonna take that from you.

Dr Komal (44:34):
It's such a life like that it's.

Dr James (44:37):
It's how can I say this?
It's such an.
There's no guarantee that itwill, but it's just a belief,
right, and it's just it's.
It's.
If I choose to have that belief, it increases the likelihood of
that happening.
Yeah, so I'm engineering.
I choose to have that belief.
It increases the likelihood ofthat happening.
Yeah, so I'm engineering.
I'm somewhat realizing that.
That is slightly.
How can I say this?
Maybe not based on reality, youknow, but my point is that if

(45:00):
you have that belief, then it'smore likely that stuff will
happen.

Dr Komal (45:03):
So you're, you're engineering it just to maximize
your chance of success I lovetalking about manifesting right
and you're literally talkingabout that because it's like
preparation how you're preparingfor something your manifest.
You're acting like the personthat you want to be.
So if you have that positiveoutlook on stuff, then
everything will turn outpositively right.

(45:24):
So that's what I.
I like to say that as well.
I think it's really true.
And, um, yeah, you speak to Toma lot, right.

Dr James (45:32):
Tom Ford as mayor.
Oh, you know him from yourpodcast.

Dr Komal (45:35):
I love those ones so good.
Yeah, you just gotta embodythat person, right?
So if something like you said,if something negative happens,
uh look, put a positive spin onit, and why would it not then
turn out positively?

Dr James (45:49):
there's always a way.
There's literally always a way,and that's actually a really
cool belief to hold as well.
It's like there's if you tellyourself and you know deep
inside, right like deep in here,that there's always a way to do
something.
Okay, it's like your brain,your subconscious, what's that
book called, oh man, psycho,psycho-cybernetics Heard of it?
I haven't.
It's such a cool book.

Dr Komal (46:10):
I really need to write these all down and go.

Dr James (46:12):
That is a crazy book.
Yeah, yeah, you should.
You'll like that one If youlike what we were talking about
just a second ago Law ofAttraction and all that you'll
likeeking missile.
And he says you don't have toheat-seek a missile, you program
it to find something.
It'll always find somethingright and it's like okay, cool,

(46:32):
well, if my outlook is negativeon the world, I'll always find
ways to prove that beliefcorrect.
Yes, whereas if my outlook ispositive, it doesn't always mean
that positive things willhappen, but my brain will look
for the positivity andopportunities yeah so you're
changing your reality bychanging the internal and, by
the way, this is coming from theguy who used to think this

(46:54):
stuff was the biggest woo-woo inthe whole wide world when you
start, it changes your life.
It's real, it's real.
Um, yeah, really cool book.

Dr Komal (47:06):
I really like that quote, love that and I've
literally got the podcast comingout today with Dr Aditi, who
she talks a lot about this, solisten to that, but yeah she
talks about like positivevibrations, positive energy, and
it literally it changes notonly your outlook, but how you
attract things to yourself aswell, and I don't think that's

(47:26):
woo woo.
I think it's literally just likejust how life works.
Yeah, yeah, I would say so.
And that leads me, like, ontohow dentists are and how
dentists are portrayed like it'sa very sad situation or
everyone's kind of cooped up intheir room and feeling like

(47:46):
rubbish about themselves.
That's like how dentistry isportrayed, I feel.

Dr James (47:50):
I.
You know what I really love tosee.
Uh, dentists just support eachother as much as possible.

Dr Komal (47:56):
I would love that man because oh, yeah, for sure, and
I think, like your group reallyhelps in that sense, because
dentists just come on there,whether it's anonymous or not,
and then they just like pulltheir hearts out.
I was one of those people, bythe way, I'm sure you saw me
posting a lot but yeah,literally like pull your heart
out, get support.
And yeah, just, I was going tosay like I just feel like

(48:18):
dentistry has that negativeconnotation, so your patients
think that about you, yourcolleagues think that about each
other, and then it just turnsinto this whole like sad thing.
I think your group really addsto that because, yeah, it just
helps everyone just like let abit of you know, stress out and
guys tell me what I can do interms of not just finance.

Dr James (48:38):
I think people just talk about like really random
stuff when your group is allright just life advice, yeah and
I think that I think that'slovely, right, and you know,
what did take a lot of time wasensuring that the community was
as positive as possible, right,and how can I say?
Just making sure that that wasthe culture?
Yes, and I feel I have observedthat what you said as well.

(49:03):
You know there was one.
What was the one?
The other day?
It was something aboutsomebody's son and they were so
a levels yeah, they were noteven.
They weren't even likenecessarily looking for advice
in their finances.
It was just like I I can'tremember the exact words, but it
was something like I'm reallyconfused about what to do.
My son does this and I justneed parenting advice.

(49:24):
I love that right.
And all these people justjumped in that's so nice and
they were like, hey, you're notdoing so bad after all.

Dr Komal (49:32):
Oh, that's so nice.

Dr James (49:33):
You could tell it actually really helped, and I
guess what I would hope, or mytheory on that, is that because
people have observed thepositive energy in the community
that they're in their heads,they're like right well, even
though I'm not necessarilyasking about finance yeah I'm
asking about.

(49:53):
I really just buy into theculture in the community it's a
safe space yeah, there you goright.
Isn't another way of sayingthat?
Yeah?

Dr Komal (50:00):
so we've got your timeline, we've got that.
You had mentorship to kind ofmake your facebook group and
grow it.
When did you if you're okay totalk about it when did you start
to monetize things or earnmoney from it?

Dr James (50:15):
At the start it was people messaged me and then I
realized there was demand forcertain things, and then I was
like what was the service youwere providing?
The very first thing we did waswe actually did a course in
crypto way back in the day, andit was a very basic course Like

(50:36):
here is how to set up an account, here's how to set up a wallet,
here is how to do a little bitof very simple investing, and
then, when you graduate on fromthat, maybe a little bit of the
more racy trading side of things, if you wish.
There was actually some quitegood ways that you could.
You know, listen, noteverything is 100% a guarantee

(50:57):
but you could.
How can I say this?
You know, there was some waysthat you could game it a little
bit back then.
They probably still exist tothis day.
Little bit back then.
Um, that probably still existsto this day.
Um, so that was fun.
And then we did a more generalfinance course, and then part of
that was also like the coachingside of things to help dennis
make more money as well.
Uh, so the crypto courseevolved into a more general

(51:19):
finance course, and then thecoaching people whenever it came
to increasing their income andwhat have you.
That was something that waswell.
I started doing that because Ifelt very comfortable doing it,
basically because I'd been onevery course under the sun, um,
and then that was those were thetwo main things for a good
while, and then that evolvedinto our financial planning firm
as well.
And then we now have partnersand affiliates who do all sorts

(51:41):
of things like accountancy, um,mortgage bookers, finance for
dental practices, everythingunder the sun, all things, all
things, dentistry, invest.

Dr Komal (51:49):
Yeah, love that.
Okay.
So when you were saying we'veinterrupted you, but you were
talking about being a full-timedentist when you got back from
your knee-op and also runningDentistry Invest and you found
that was a bit of a struggle,right, yeah, yeah.
So how did you juggle all ofthat and what did you have to
let go?
And how did you?
How did you know to cut down onone thing?

Dr James (52:12):
you know what?
What happened was this.
I really like the analogy.
It's like you know, when you goto the supermarket, right,
sometimes your bag is full.
You really want something, butyour bag is full of all these
other things, your tote bag,right?
I like that yeah and sometimesyou got to take something else
out to put something else in.
And that's kind of whathappened to me with dentistry.

(52:33):
It wasn't that I, it was in thetote bag To run with this
analogy, it was in that tote bag.
But basically what I realizedwas that dentistry Vest was in a
place back then where itliterally needed every hour of
every day to actually get it upand running.
There was just loads to do.

(52:53):
And what happened was I actuallyI basically started to get you
know, I was basically just notsleeping and just working all
the time.
I basically started to getsymptoms, like systemic symptoms
of just fatigue, basically likequite severe symptoms, and that
was like the universe trying totell me like you need to just
chill here, like you need topick something.

(53:15):
And I knew in my heart I waslike I'm having so much more fun
doing this and I think that theclinic that I was in at the
time they they could kind oftell that they what they wanted
was they wanted a dentist whowas all in on dentistry Right,
and that was just not me.
Like I was not all in, that'sfor sure.
Like it was there but I wasn'tall in, I was more all in on

(53:38):
dentistry and vest.
We just had a conversation andwe just said, james, you know,
we want someone who does this,this, and this Is that you?
And it was always in my head,it was in my mind, um, that it
wasn't.
And I knew I was kind of juststringing it out a little bit.
And then when they asked medirectly, I was like, right,
well, my options are not.

(53:58):
Tell the truth.
Yeah, because I know thatthat's true.
I know in here that that's true.
Or we can just, if you'veconfronted me about it, that we
can just be adults and I'll justsay how I feel.
And then sometimes there's alot to be said in life for just
saying how you feel and let thechips fall where they may was
that not scary, though, likehaving to say it?

(54:18):
out loud it's, I guess.
Well, put it like this, Iwasn't, I didn't wasn't knocking
on their door to have theconversation.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
It definitely didn't come fromme, it was in here, right.
But I guess I was kind of.
I was kind of toot and croakabout it, but in my heart I knew
what I wanted to do.
And then when that happened,what was my main emotion that I

(54:43):
felt that day?
I actually maybe just felt like, let's just do this.

Dr Komal (54:47):
I'm just going say it yeah, I mean, maybe it's like
literally the universe sayinglike all right guys, you need to
go knock on his door and askhim the question because he's
not answering it himself.
So go and ask him this andlet's see what he says it was
fit, man.

Dr James (55:00):
Yeah, it was just literally fit, like it was just
gonna happen.
And I think, with stuff likethat, whatever happens next,
next, you know it was fateeither way and fate's fate.

Dr Komal (55:10):
Love that and so you had.
You basically took a step outcompletely from dentistry after
that, or was it part timestaggered?
I?

Dr James (55:20):
just left, did you?
I was just like, let's make ithappen.

Dr Komal (55:22):
But at that point were you earning enough from your
side hustle for it to be okay toquit?

Dr James (55:29):
The interesting thing was it had achieved parity
pretty fast.
Basically, interestingly, um,yeah and uh, that was actually
part of the reason that itdidn't feel as drawn to
dentistry anymore.
Um, so, yes, that was a factoryeah, great.

Dr Komal (55:51):
And when you're saying you were feeling those symptoms
of fatigue and burnout,obviously leaving dentistry must
have helped with that becauseyou had more time.

Dr James (55:59):
It was just space yeah , something huge off my plate
because dentistry is stressfulright and, like you, have enough
to deal with just as it is as adentist, right and uh, having
that taken out of the tote bag,to use that metaphor we talked
about earlier, it made a bigdifference yeah, dentistry is

(56:19):
like a big watermelon in yourtote bag when you have so much
space in there wow, this isreally like something like that
you can put so many things inyour bag.

Dr Komal (56:30):
Yeah, so how?
How do you usually deal withkind of preventing burnout and
juggling things?

Dr James (56:35):
you know what's funny, right?
I think that being burnt out isbased on the fact that you it
costs you energy to do something.
If something gives you, there'stwo things in life things that
gives you energy and things thatcost energy.
Right, if something?
Put it like this you know, namea hobby, name a pastime that

(56:59):
somebody has.
Let's say, someone likesplaying paddle, right, they
could probably play paddle a lotbefore they felt burnt out.
Yeah, yeah, like that'sliterally their biggest hobby in
the whole wide world.
Uh, whereas and that's fine,you know, there's no, there's no
hierarchy of the importance ofhobbies, right, it's like,
whatever someone is into, that'sfine.
It just so happens that I justlove like this and doing all

(57:19):
these things, that I wouldliterally do it all day long,
you know, despite anything else.

Dr Komal (57:23):
Yeah, so you don't feel burnt out, I guess.

Dr James (57:25):
And my family say that to me, they're like James,
what's going on, it's every day,like are you okay, you know?
And I'm like, no, you actuallydon't understand.

Dr Komal (57:43):
I would literally rather do whatever this is.

Dr James (57:44):
I'd rather do this, because in my head it's building
and in my head I just knowsomething awesome, awesome,
things have happened and they'llcontinue to happen.
That's cool.
That's the biggest high for me.
That is the biggest high whenyou okay, when you make
something and it comes off andyou're like, yeah, that's
awesome, yeah.

Dr Komal (57:55):
So to anyone listening and they want to feel like that
, they want to, to know how thatfeels to work and it doesn't
feel like work.
You just love what you're doing.
What advice do you have forthem?

Dr James (58:06):
You know, this is a brilliant question, and
sometimes I see people out thereand everything I'm about to say
is with love, just because Igenuinely want people to be
happy in life above all else.
However, that looks right and Ifeel like say, for example,
you're in a place where you justfeel like there's something

(58:31):
missing and you don't know whatthat is.
Yeah, because that's the hardpart.
Someone just can't come alongand just give you the answer,
right.
So for me, I I felt and don'tget me wrong, I felt like that
for years and I just accepted it.
Maybe and maybe it was becauseno one said to me what I'm about
to say.
So, for me, when I, when I uhhow can I say this?

(58:51):
When I felt that way, what Ididn't actually realize the void
was was running a business anddoing all these things, because
I, I love that, that's myfavorite thing to do in the
whole wide world.
So let me see, um, how that?
How?
I then found that was justthrough trying.
It wasn't any more intellectualor it wasn't any more how can I

(59:16):
say this?
It thought through.
Then I just tried loads ofdifferent things and then
eventually you just findsomething that you like.
But the big thing to emphasizeis you don't just try something
one day and you're like, oh mygod, this is incredible, like
this is the best thing.
It usually takes you some timedoing something before you
realize you enjoy it.
Like even with dentistry, Ididn't really enjoy it until

(59:38):
maybe halfway through foundationyear or maybe even when I got
out being an associate and Ifelt like really confident.
I still had a lot to learn, butI felt confident emphasis on
that anywho.
Um, I feel like partly enjoyingsomething comes through
experience.
I feel like I feel like peopleshould do things that scare them
a lot more, because oftentimesthose are the experiences that

(01:00:00):
grow us and that we learn newthings through.
And really, if you do that andwhen you do that, you often have
new experiences.

Dr Komal (01:00:10):
And actually, if you think about it, if you feel like
there's a void, you're probablyjust looking for new
experiences yeah to find thething that you really really
really like totally agree andthat totally matches what loads
of people have said who havecome on.
It's literally just trysomething new and you don't
usually do well on the first try.
It's quite hard, like it'squite rare right, especially as

(01:00:30):
an entrepreneur or a businessowner, like it takes time for
you to get there and that's fine, like trial and error basically
, until you find what clicks orwhat works right.

Dr James (01:00:41):
Expect to suck at something, yeah, and embrace the
sun and it's like you.

Dr Komal (01:00:46):
How are you going to grow if you're just sitting
there comfortably doingamazingly at everything?

Dr James (01:00:52):
I I really, really, really feel that for me, that
was what worked incredibly welljust doing things that literally
scared the hell out of me atthe time, and then I found cool
stuff on the other side yeah,it's character building.

Dr Komal (01:01:03):
Yeah, that's what we call it.

Dr James (01:01:05):
I always remember my first video on social media and
I was so scared to post it yeah,because it was me talking in
this group.
Yeah, and I was like I justdon't know.

Dr Komal (01:01:12):
Yeah or your first.
Do you think like your firstpodcast, where you had a guest
on that you didn't know, it mustmust have been really weird and
like what do I?

Dr James (01:01:19):
say You're actually a natural right.

Dr Komal (01:01:21):
Do you think Definitely?
I'm like literally justswinging it.

Dr James (01:01:26):
You're honestly right.
If you listen to my very firstepisode even the first, like 30
episodes there's loads of umsand ahs in there.
I had to edit the ums and ahs,yeah, I do that.

Dr Komal (01:01:36):
It's to arms and ass.
Yeah, I do that, it's okay andthat's fine, that's alright.

Dr James (01:01:39):
eventually, on your hundredth one then it flows,
yeah, then it flows exactly, andthen it actually.
You know, the coolest thingabout making content boost your
ability to communicate yeah,100% you can get to the point
where the words flow on cameraso you can perform in that
situation, and then it means theconversation is so much easier
to do.
Sounds again.

(01:02:00):
Sounds a whimsical.
Never would have believed ituntil I went through it.

Dr Komal (01:02:03):
Yeah, exactly.
So we've been really positiveabout everything and we've said
really nice things about whatyou do, but is there anything
negative about what you do?

Dr James (01:02:12):
I would say that probably the thing that people
don't see is just how much workit is.
It's all day long, every day,yeah, and there's a lot to deal
with.
Um, I think that you have to bea certain way like I get a
thrill on overcoming things andI'm like I know that this
adversity will surpass and itwill feel really good.

(01:02:34):
I I think that maybe that issomething that maybe I don't
really talk about that much, notbecause it bothers me, it's
just not relevant.
I think people would besurprised just how much they do.
I really do.
Yeah, there's a lot.
It just looks like a Facebookgroup, you know what I mean, or

(01:02:55):
it looks, you know, and again.

Dr Komal (01:02:57):
It's that perception, like from the outside, when
something's built up, you don'tthink about how long it took or
how much work it takes to dailymaintain that.

Dr James (01:03:05):
Yeah you know what I would say as well, like there's
been so many lessons that I lookback on that I learned from
coaches or mentors or evenexperience, and until I learned
that because you don't know what, you don't know, you're
struggling, but you just'restruggling, but you just don't
see it.
You just don't see it at all,as in.
One of the biggest revelationsfor me was getting a team, as in
staff members, because I wasdoing, I was just spending all

(01:03:27):
day just doing these littlelow-level tasks and what have
you, and at the time I acceptedit.
But until I even hiring yourfirst staff member is like okay,
this feels kind of weird, thisis kind of outside my comfort
zone.
But again, it was anotherexample of me doing something
that put me in that place.
That was the best thing I everdid because it took so much off

(01:03:48):
my plate.
I think that you go through whenyou are if we're going to use
the term entrepreneur you spenda lot of time just tumbling.
You really do, and you just gotto keep believing that you're
gonna find your feet andeventually it happens and I I'm
really happy that some coolthings came of it and there's
definitely more to do, but we'vegot some really good, like

(01:04:11):
really good momentum.
Right now it feels and there's,there's more to come.
And I look back and just weirdlittle times where I talk to
somebody or just random thingshappened that taught me these
huge lessons and I'm like man,where would I be if I didn't
learn that thing, that onelittle thing.
It changed everything.
So my basic point would be justkeep going, keep believing,

(01:04:33):
understand that adversity ispart of the journey and embrace
it.

Dr Komal (01:04:37):
And get help.

Dr James (01:04:39):
Get help and try to try to never get down as well,
because there's always a win inthere somewhere so what type of
help do you have at the momentfor who's in your team?
Hmm, well, you know what?
I used to have a lot of coachesand mentors, but then I then I
brought team members in,basically, and people who were
partners in, uh, the other firmthat we have, and, in a way,

(01:05:01):
they're your members, eventhough you're not in a formal
relationship with them.
In terms of you do and you learnso much and just really what I
would say that everybody is andsomething that I didn't realize
for a long time that when youget the right people around you,
it makes so much difference.
They cover your back, theycover your ass, they see little
things that you can't see.
The sooner you embrace the factthat this, this head right here

(01:05:25):
has limited bandwidth yeah, andthe sooner we.

Dr Komal (01:05:29):
I feel like if we're uh, unless we accept that we
limit ourselves a lot so fromthe sounds of it, there's not
that much negativity, except forjust that there's lots to do.
But like you said, said youlove it, so it's nice.

Dr James (01:05:42):
Yeah, I think if you're going to spend your time
doing lots of things, just makesure it's the important things,
right?
Because, then you're gettingthe most bang for your buck.

Dr Komal (01:05:49):
Yeah, exactly, all right.
So take me back to when youfirst qualified.
What was the biggest struggleyou had as a dentist?

Dr James (01:06:03):
Wow, good question.
I would say the actualtechnical aspect to it.
Okay, as in putting your handsin someone's mouth with a drill,
yeah it's not normal.

Dr Komal (01:06:09):
It's not like a, a normal human thing to do, is it?

Dr James (01:06:13):
it certainly isn't.
That was.
There's some really scarymoments right in everybody's
dental career, like rites ofpassage, like the first time you
have the long needle.
Yeah, the 2070, right, Iremember the teacher had to like
hold my hand.

Dr Komal (01:06:29):
Oh yeah, that's a memory oh my goodness.

Dr James (01:06:31):
And it comes back to the support thing.

Dr Komal (01:06:34):
The team around you are just on your back, sometimes
, like the nurses and the PMs,right, like they're not always
the most supportive yeah, andyou're like I'm literally a
human trying to do somethingreally intricate and you know it
takes a lot out of you and youguys don't get it yeah, or
because they work with.

Dr James (01:06:53):
You know Slick Rick, who's been doing dentistry for
30 years.

Dr Komal (01:06:56):
They're just like well , you can't do it, so what can
you?

Dr James (01:06:58):
yeah, exactly, and it's like, guys, I've done this,
like I've done a root canalthree times my freaking life,
right, like is it not morehelpful that you would be nice,
right um?
anyway, stuff like that, c'estla vie, yeah so, okay, that was
your struggle I definitely thinkthose were the biggies and I
definitely think that I probablyhad a lot to learn in the

(01:07:20):
communication front as well whenI was a dentist initially.
And yeah, it's, it's one ofthose things.
It's a sink or swim thing,isn't it?
Because that is one of thebiggest things that generates
issues from the patient'sperspective if you can't do that
.

Dr Komal (01:07:33):
We always hear that a thousand percent.

Dr James (01:07:35):
And what was it?
Um, I heard somebody say oncethat you've go to manage the
patient before you manage thetreatment plan.
You know, 95% of dentistry yeah, 95% of dentistry is just how
you communicate and manage theperson.

Dr Komal (01:07:47):
Yeah, I've seen some crazy dentistry, but the person
doing it is so nice that no onehas a clue.
Sorry if I just, you know, justspill the beans.

Dr James (01:07:58):
But you know what I feel like people can relate.

Dr Komal (01:08:00):
Yeah, oh my gosh, but OK.
So if there's a dentist who'slistening to this, they've been
really inspired about whatyou've had to say and they're
just feeling like a bit stuckright now.
They're not really sure what todo moving forward, but they
want to do something.
Do you have any kind of lastwords of wisdom for them?

Dr James (01:08:18):
Words of wisdom for them.
Words of wisdom.
You know what?
I mentioned this earlier andit's probably a good time to
circle back to it and I saidthat there's another quote that
I really like.
Yeah, and that quote is a calmsea never made a strong sailor.

Dr Komal (01:08:30):
I like it.

Dr James (01:08:32):
And I guess what I mean by that is, you know,
dentistry can be really lonely.
It can be really tough, it may.
And density can be reallylonely.
It can be really tough.
It may compound all the thingsthat you're going through in
life.
I guess when I remind myself ofthat, or when I tell myself
that I'm like, right well, I'mlearning a lot, this is going to

(01:08:52):
make me stronger.
This is going to make meappreciate the good times so
much more, and I think it's areally good thing to hold on to.
I really do.
I really like that.
That helps with the mindsetside of things.
By way of practical things todo.
I would just say you know, areally nice way of looking at
something is is like what wouldyour 85 year old self do in the

(01:09:15):
situation that you're in rightnow?
As in the person who had notime and they'd probably stop
giving a toss like 20 years ago.
Oh, my god, I like that one yeahand sometimes, if you make
decisions, whatever you're goingthrough, if you're like what
would that dude do or what wouldthat dude act do, so to speak,
uh, what?
That's a really good lensthrough which to look at things.
Would they accept this or wouldthey just be like I've got my

(01:09:38):
time on earth is potentiallylimited.
What would I do?
What would I do in this moment?
And I think that that's areally helpful lens to which to
make decisions through.
And things oftentimes when youthink about that person's life,
they speed things up, becausetime we all consider ourselves
over loads of time and we thinkthings are going to get better

(01:09:59):
and sometimes that justprotracts things, whereas that
person doesn't have time.
They just don't care and theyjust get on with it.
Yeah, it's very hard to have,you know, hard and fast rules,
like you've got to do that allthe time, but it's a nice little
rule of thumb and I like that alot.

Dr Komal (01:10:13):
Yeah, definitely.
I think that's a look at yourlife, the idea of just saying
whatever to things.
So if something bad hashappened, or even if something
good has happened, like life isa roller coaster, but the more
you can just get over it likewhatever, come back to your
normal, um, what's the baselineyeah, the more you'll just be

(01:10:35):
okay with life.
And I think most 85 year oldsare probably there.
They're like just good atsaying whatever, they're pretty
chill, they stop.
They stop caring right, whateverat life, right, um, okay, so
last question for you I likewhat you've said and I feel like
it's really inspiring thatyou've reached a level where you
love what you do.
But if we were in a dream worldor like parallel universe, and

(01:10:59):
you could have a dream job, whatwould your dream job be?

Dr James (01:11:03):
Honestly and I hope this doesn't come across in how
can I say this in any other waythan maybe inauthentic I just
really love what I do.
I actually love it Really.
You wouldn't do anything else,honestly.
No, really.
And you know why?
Because I would just go, and ifI wanted to do it, I would just
go and do it.
I would, it would already bedone.

Dr Komal (01:11:25):
Okay, so not even like .
Okay, what I've had so far.
Astronaut footballer, oh I see,like selling pineapples on the
beach, that's what I mean.
We're kind of pushing it aroundhere.
Oh, I see, not, that's what Imean.

Dr James (01:11:37):
We're kind of pushing it around here.
Oh, I see, not practical.
That's a brilliant question.
And you know what?
Here's the thing.
Right, if I was a footballer oran astronaut or all of those
things, I kind of look back andI think, yeah, but would I have
learned all these things and metall these people?
And it would be cool.
Space would basically cool andstuff.

(01:11:58):
I guess.
Thank you For a while, but I'dbe like no, but like I have
stuff to do on earth.

Dr Komal (01:12:03):
I want to be here on earth running Dentists who
Invest.

Dr James (01:12:06):
Yeah, or I think I think you know Dentists who
Invest awesome, love it.
You know what I really?
I just genuinely really loverunning a business.

Dr Komal (01:12:13):
Yeah.

Dr James (01:12:13):
And I think it's the coolest thing.

Dr Komal (01:12:14):
So so you'd be a businessman in your parallel
universe.

Dr James (01:12:19):
But I guess the real sense of satisfaction for me is
like it just didn't exist, right, like it just wasn't a thing.
And anything that I do is mejust taking this thing from the
ground up and growing it andjust see how far it can go.
And yeah, I guess being afootballer and earning like 200k

(01:12:41):
a week would be like cool for awhile, right, um.
But I think in the long run,like when I had to retire as a
footballer, like what would I?

Dr Komal (01:12:47):
what would you do then ?
What would?

Dr James (01:12:48):
you do right yeah whereas I know that this, if I'm
playing a long game, actuallyactually it when I look at it
through that lens, it's probablygoing to be this.
I just think about all theagain not that I know everything
, far from it but I look at allthe just crazy lessons and
things that I realised over theyears and that never would have

(01:13:10):
happened otherwise, and Igenuinely think that those are
so versatile and they serve meso well that it would be remiss
of me to jeopardise it bypotentially having another
career wow.

Dr Komal (01:13:21):
So literally, even in a parallel universe, you're,
you're who you are now livingthe dream legit.

Dr James (01:13:29):
You know there's this.
Have you heard of alex humosi?
yeah yeah, and he has this thingand it's like, you know, it's
all about the lessons, as inlife is entrepreneurship and
life is all about the lessons,and what he says by that, what
he means by that, is it's likeokay, cool.
Well, you know, even ifeverything went tits up and your
market coin went to zerotomorrow and all your businesses

(01:13:50):
failed, you could open it againand because you know what you
know now, you could probably getback to where you were pretty
fast.

Dr Komal (01:13:56):
Yeah.

Dr James (01:13:56):
And like, if I could go back and talk to James when
he was like 29, stuff, I wouldteach that kid honestly, stuff,
I would teach that kid Nice andit would be.
It's you, just you, just you,just.
It's just all these littleobscure skills that you just
never would have learnedotherwise.
And you know, I'm reallyexcited for the future.
That's what I'm trying to say.

Dr Komal (01:14:17):
Amazing.
I love that for you.
That's really nice to hear andon that note, let's close the
podcast by saying that we areall more than scrubs and look at
what we can do.
We can literally achieve ourdreams if we just kind of come
out of the comfort zone rightand just grow.
Any last messages from you.

Dr James (01:14:35):
I would just echo what you just said right then Smash
you.
I would just echo what you justsaid right then Smash the
conference on.

Dr Komal (01:14:41):
It seems, like such a small thing, but actually it's
huge.
Yeah, love it.
Thank you so much for coming,james.

Dr James (01:14:45):
Thanks for having me.

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