October 28, 2025 • 29 mins
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Buying a home as a dentist shouldn’t feel like translating your career into a foreign language. We sit down with mortgage specialist William to turn “complex income” into a clear story underwriters understand, so you can borrow confidently without paying a premium for your structure. From UDAs and SA302s to net profit policies and partnerships, we break down exactly how to present your earnings and which details actually move the needle on affordability.
We start with sole traders and employed clinicians who add private work, showing how payslips, tax calculations, and consistent patterns across two years help secure stronger offers. Locums and contractors aren’t locked out either; some lenders will work off current contracts and recent invoices when the case is assembled cleanly. Then we tackle limited company associates, where low salary and dividends used to cap borrowing. A growing set of lenders now consider salary plus net profit, particularly when the business has minimal overheads, so your retained profits can count toward what you can reasonably draw.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr James (00:00):
Us dentists know that getting a mortgage for ourselves
is not always the easiest thingto do.
And really, it's a good idea toget some special input because
our incomes are complicated.
But why is that the case?
We're going to be covering thattoday.
Why it is different, the stuffthat we need to know in order to
navigate the mortgage landscapeand what we can do about it in
(00:22):
order to get the best deal.
I have with me today expert,mortgage broker to dentists, Mr.
Will Coe.
Looking forward to gettingstuck in.
I'm also happy to share thatthere is free verifiable CPD
associated with this podcastepisode.
Whenever you finish theepisode, all you have to do is
click the link in the podcastdescription.
It'll take you right throughthe Dentists Who Invest website.
(00:44):
You'll be able to complete ashort questionnaire, and once
passed, you fill in yourreflections, and we'll go ahead
and email over to you yourverifiable CPD certificate,
which is entirely free.
What that means is this podcastepisode will be able to
contribute towards yourverifiable CPD hours during this
learning cycle.
Why are Dentists considered tohave complex inverted commands
(01:14):
income in the eyes of thelenders?
Will (01:18):
So I think a definition of complex in itself is that it's
complicated to understand.
So what we know is, as with alot of people that are perhaps
self-employed, is that there'sdifferent streams in which the
income comes from.
So where there's differentstreams is how is that then
presented to a lender?
And quite often, you know,you've got an underwriter that
may be looking at a case, theywant the simplest way to
(01:41):
understand this because they'rethe one that's basically signing
off hundreds of thousands ofpounds worth of funds.
Is this a safe investment theother way around?
So for them, they want toreally understand it.
And kind of the simpler we canmake that, then the easier it's
going to be.
So complex incomes, I think,for dentists, lots of different
streams, whether you'reemployed, sole trader, or
(02:03):
operating for a limited companyas a partnership or by yourself,
you've got so many differentstreams of income.
So understanding it and makingit simpler for an underwriter to
understand is probably the keything.
Dr James (02:15):
Understood.
So really, the second that westop being in an employed
dentist, as in working in an NHShospital, for example, we're
then all of a sudden consideredto be complex in Verticomas in
the eyes of the underwriters,which is basically probably 98%
of dentists anyway.
Would you even call it even aself-employed associate who's
(02:38):
who's trading as a sole traderis technically complex?
Will (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, and and sometimes even evenmore so, because if it's a
partnership, um, you know, whatwhat percentage share do you
have of the company?
So what are you entitled to?
What could you withdraw?
Um, you know, the turnover,what what is what is your
contribution to that, I suppose?
So it yeah, it is just ascomplicated.
Dr James (03:05):
Interesting.
All right, let's get into itthen.
Let's talk about Dentists andtheir mortgages and what they
can do to navigate the landscapeof borrowing guests in order to
get the best deal.
Because if you think about it,this is such a pivotal decision
of our lives, right?
Our careers.
We are saying yes to somethingthat we're gonna have to be
(03:27):
bound to repay for 25 years,potentially.
Uh more than just always 25years, are they?
Will (03:35):
No, you can have longer.
Dr James (03:37):
Oh, there we go.
I'm learning as well.
Interesting.
So there you go.
So you can have longer if youwish.
Uh, but yeah, anyway, soobviously this is a massive
decision.
Let's talk about the dentistswho are soul traders, first of
all.
Let's keep it nice and simpleand then we'll build up in terms
of complexity, I would suggest.
So let's say NHS, soul trader,close to 100% NHS.
(04:00):
We've obviously got to factorin UDAs because that's how
dentists get paid.
What do those dentists need toknow, or what can they do in
order to get the best dealversus going to a standard
broker?
Will (04:11):
Okay, fine.
So I think a couple of um,let's get a couple of
misconceptions out of the way isthat a lot of people that
become self-employed, okay, theimmediate reaction is, oh, I
can't get a mortgage.
Okay.
I don't believe in that phrase,I can't get a mortgage.
Anyone can get a mortgage, it'sjust a question of how much.
Okay.
So that that key question abouthow much is where a broker will
(04:33):
spend time understanding,firstly, how much you're earning
to your income, what's yourexpenditure, and then like an
affordability assessment.
So that's kind of the firstbit.
So the income, if you're a soletrader, you know, or you know,
you are employed by the NHS andthen you've got private work as
a sole trader.
It's no different, really, tolet's say a barrister.
(04:56):
It's no different actually toanyone who's employed that has a
side hustle.
Okay.
You're employed, you've got amain income.
That can be assessed as a basicincome.
Where you're a sole trader,you've got additional income
you've got coming in that thenyou deal with your own taxation
for.
That's the definition of beingself-employed.
And so what a lender wouldprobably look at is they want to
(05:18):
see two years' worth ofaccounts of you being a sole
trader.
There are some that will do oneyear's worth of accounts, but
you've got your employedplay-sips, you've then got
additional work that you dowhere you do your own tax
calculations, and you'll have uhwhat we call like an SA 302 at
the end of each year, and onthere it'll detail what's your
employed income, what is yourself-employed income, what's the
(05:40):
total amount that you're, youknow, that that's due to be
calculated for tax.
And that that's just that issimply what it is.
Dr James (05:47):
Nice.
And that's the standard way ofdoing things.
But I know that we had someother podcasts recently um where
there was the the the guest wassaying that there are certain
lenders out there who will evenconsider less than one year.
Yeah, absolutely.
Will (06:00):
So it it it depends on what the or or the way in which
that income is made up.
So, you know, another portionof what we specialize in is
contractors.
Okay, so you might have a locumworker who is assigned to a
particular practice on aself-employed basis and will
have a contract.
And that contract might be forthree, you know, six, nine,
(06:21):
twelve months.
If you think about a contractof employment, everyone has a
contract of employment.
The difference with this isthat it's short term, so it's
temporary, and you're dealingwith your own taxation.
But if you've got a contract ofemployment, it kind of means
that you've got a guaranteedamount of income in that period
of time.
What's more is that somelenders would also look at what
(06:42):
you're invoicing.
So they might look at the lastsix months or three months worth
of invoices to say, right,here's the additional income,
here's how we've calculated thatbefore a tax calculation's been
submitted.
You know, and that's verycommon, particularly in the
medical industry, which youknow, dentists are included in.
Dr James (07:01):
Interesting.
And how many, how many uh ofthe uh, how can we say this,
underwriters out there know whata UDA is or how that works?
Is that common?
Does that restrict the amountof people that will be able to
borrow from?
Will (07:16):
Um no, so I think a lot of underwriters will be aware of
it, but it's not theunderwriters, it's the brokers.
So the brokers need to be awareof it to be able to present it
to the underwriter in the rightway.
And you know, quite often, youknow, we've had many phone calls
with people that said, Oh, I'vegone, I've gone to a broker
that's fairly generic ornon-specialist or direct to a
lender, and you know, I don'tfeel like they're understanding
(07:39):
my income.
You know, so we would sit andhave a conversation spend time
understanding what they do, andthen would look to present it,
I'm gonna say, in the right wayor in a way that's
understandable, that includeseverything.
So then the underwriter goes,Oh, that's what this is and then
know how to assess it.
So you know, it's one of thosethings.
If you present, you know, ifyou present an apple to someone,
(08:00):
it's an apple, you know.
But if you then present a pair,it's a pair.
Sometimes if it's an apple andthey're looking at it, you're
trying to convince them there'ssomething other than an apple,
they're not gonna shift.
You have to present it in theright way that's easily
understandable and evidence.
Dr James (08:17):
Understood.
Okay, so we've just dealt withsole traders, and these are the
a few of the caveats that it'sgood to be aware of.
Let's talk about limitedcompanies.
Yeah.
Specifically associate dentistswho trade as limited companies
just for the moment, and then wecan move on to principles a
(08:37):
little after that.
Although, having said that,maybe the rules are similar-ish.
I guess we'll we'll we'll findout, won't we?
Yeah.
Now, traditionally, correct meif I'm wrong, Will, a lot of the
underwriters slash brokers outthere will they won't really
treat retained profits in thecompany the same as well,
(09:00):
withdrawals from the company.
So let's say everybody's tryingto be tax efficient and they
want to keep their earnings ortheir income, their personal
income, to 50k a year, then whatthat can mean is well, they've
only got 50k a year of earningsin the eyes of the brokers, even
though they've got much more intheir limited company, which
(09:21):
will obviously restrict theirborrowing.
Is that still the case?
Will (09:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
If you think about it, youknow, that the lenders looking
at a very traditional sense isyou're one of two things, you're
either employed orself-employed, right?
So when you're self-employed,what are you a sole trader, a
director, a partnership, so onand so forth.
So if you go down the idea of alimited company and include
those perhaps in thepartnership, is the traditional
view is what is your taxableincome?
(09:46):
Okay, now your taxable incomeis what you've otherwise
declared to HMRCs, would be yoursalary and your dividends.
Okay, now, as you quite rightlypointed out, James, is that if
you're tax efficient, you'reonly going to withdraw what you
need to withdraw.
That's the benefit of usingyour own limited company.
That's the benefit of beingself-employed.
But the problem with that isthat if you're now looking to
(10:09):
get a mortgage, your liabilityis going to increase.
So how can we show that you canafford to increase what you pay
yourself when the liabilityincreases?
Because you've withdrawn verylittle, you've got lots of
retained profit.
And this is where we have someof these policies that allow us
to look at that net profit.
What we're talking about is howmuch are you actually earning
(10:32):
for your company is X amount.
Yes, you're withdrawing this,but what can you withdraw?
And so this is where you know,very few lenders, but more
coming into this now withlooking at the net profit of the
company plus the salary you'rewithdrawing, because that is
feasibly what your futureincome's going to be.
Dr James (10:50):
I see, particularly in the case where it's associate
limited companies, you know,there's no real outgoings in the
company other than what they'repaying themselves, right?
Will (10:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, absol absolutely.
And so then we come down to thething of like partnerships and
what's your shareholding, andyou know, you've got the company
as separate, you might haveyour own company that is working
relationship with that.
It can become very, verycomplex with lots of different
layers.
The role of a broker, andcertainly what we would do is
sit down and try and strip backthose layers to go, right?
(11:21):
What is the simplest way topresent this?
You are a dentist, you areoperating as you know,
self-employed, so you're dealingwith your own taxation.
How does your income look?
And we would look at thingslike what is your shareholding
of the company?
So if it's 50%, 75%.
So what's your shareholding ofthe net profit of that company
(11:42):
that you're entitled to?
You know, it is those furtherquestions that we have that
we'll start to understand, andthen build up a case that we can
then present to a lender tosay, here is James, he's a
dentist, here's he's got a 75%shareholding of this company,
and here's the net profit ofthat company, and here's 75% of
it.
Oh, and here's what he's paidhimself as a salary.
(12:04):
Then we use that for thepurpose of affordability.
Does that make sense?
Dr James (12:08):
It does, yeah.
And it's amazing that how manypeople out there nowadays uh
still don't know that that'spossible, and how many people
are fed that narrative, and itputs it puts them off borrowing
for a long, long time.
Whereas actually it is possibleyou just have to have the right
lenders in your back pocket.
Will (12:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
And then the other challenge inall of this, though, is about
the longevity of the work.
So you said earlier abouthaving like a 25-year mortgage
term, you know, depending onyour age, actually, most
mortgage terms that certainlylooked at has been in the rounds
of 30, 35 years.
People often can take amortgage up to the age of 75, up
to the age of 70 or 68.
(12:48):
You know, there is a lot moreflexibility around the
marketplace based on individualcircumstances.
But, you know, when you look atthe the mortgage that you want
to have and how long you'regoing to have that for, the
longer you have the mortgageload of repayments are going to
be, the less income effects wewould need to present.
But the real concern of alender is how you're going to,
(13:10):
you know, if you'reself-employed, COVID is a good
example and your work dries up,you know, how are you going to
carry on making these mortgagepayments?
Now, one of the really greatthings when you look at
employment, and this is why Iwant to split away from tax
status and look at employment,is do you work in an industry
where there's longevity in thework?
Well, take social workers, forexample.
(13:32):
Yes.
You know, we're crying out forsocial workers, you know,
unfortunately.
And so what's the chance of ifthis work dries up, can you get
new work?
Well, yes.
And I think it's the same withdentistry, is we're crying out
for more NHS dentists.
If suddenly the private workcompletely, you know, flatlined,
could you go get employment asan NHS dentist?
(13:56):
Yes, you can.
So there is longevity in thework that you do because the
demand for it is really, reallyhigh.
And that gives comfort to thelender that not just that the
mortgage is affordable, but it'saffordable for the long term.
Does that make sense?
Dr James (14:10):
It does.
It does.
It means that they're morewilling to lend to you.
Will (14:16):
Yeah.
And I think this is probably,and this goes back to what we're
talking about, you know,complex, doesn't have to be
complicated.
Is we want to simplify this.
And we simplify it by lookingat the individual.
What does that person do for aliving?
How do they earn their money?
And then how can we evidencethe money that they are earning
(14:37):
to maximize their potential formortgage funding?
Dr James (14:41):
And you know, let me share one other thing on that,
actually, uh, which isinteresting, you know, just uh
with relevance to what you justsaid, uh, because because,
because, because where was Igoing with that?
Yeah, when it comes to yourlimited company and when it
comes to the retained profitsthat are in there as well, does
that change?
Does how the lenders andbrokers uh how they perceive you
(15:06):
from a risk perspective changein any way the second that
you've got all these additionalmoving parts, as in you've got
your own dental practice, forexample, and you're still
technically an individual that'smaking drawings from a company,
but the company's way morecomplicated at that point,
right?
Like it's not just a companywhich is basically just a tax
shelter for your money.
(15:26):
I mean, it is that, but it alsohas all these other variables
in there.
Does the logic still hold true?
Are they are they a little bitmore wary in that situation?
How does things change?
Will (15:37):
Well, I think you know, is it's about risk and
probability.
So what is the risk?
Okay, so the risk is that thecompany goes completely under.
What's the probability of thathappening?
You know, that that's probablythe key metric we'll look at.
And this is why for us,focusing on an individual and
what they do for a living andwhat's the probability they can
(15:59):
continue working if the worstwas to happen in terms of
employment and work dries up.
That's what we would look to doand look to present.
I don't know if that answersthe question.
But I think for a lot of peopleis that is the risk, the risk
is no different.
If someone's permanentlyemployed, they could be pulled
into the office today and toldthat now redundant.
That's the risk.
(16:19):
What's the probability of thathappening?
Dr James (16:22):
Yeah.
No, that does answer thequestion because you're
basically saying it's the same,really.
Whereas you're basically sayingit's the same.
That is clarity right there.
You know, it's not that it'sany uh, you know, it's viewed in
any different terms, whichwhich is which is useful to know
in and of itself.
And how does that affect theinterest rate then?
I know interest rate isn't theonly parameter which determines
(16:43):
how much you're going to berepaying every month, but as a
very crude way of licking yourfinger and sticking in the air
and saying, okay, there's anapproximation here as to how
negatively that we're impactedby one situation or the other,
how would the interest rate bedifferent, let's say, in the
situation where someone has aload of retained profits in
(17:04):
their company versus gettingpaid exactly the same amount of
money but into a personal name?
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description.
Will (17:46):
Okay, so again, it's looking at and I think the focal
point is the assumption of oh,because I've got this type of
income, my mortgage is going tobe more expensive.
Okay.
So if we take that to one side,what we've got to understand is
that there are hundreds oflenders out there, and all of
them have different policies,different kind of risk
(18:07):
appetites.
You know, if we look at what wehave of the high street, which
is the likes of Halifax,Netwest, Nationwide, Santander,
HSBC, you know, the big onesrecognize, you know, a lot of
them, when they'reself-employed, because they're
so big, they'll want to keep itnice and simple, salary and
dividends.
But then a layer under that,you've got some really good
other lenders like CommentaryBuilding Society, Accord, which
(18:30):
is part of the YorkshireBuilding Society as well,
Skipton Building Society,Principality as well, really
good lender.
Um, all of them have got thistype of policy where they can
look at net profit.
So they can look at retainedprofit, but their interest rates
are just as competitive as whatyou find from those big lenders
on the high street.
And that's not to say those biglenders on the high street
wouldn't look at it.
Like I said, it's about how wepresent the income.
(18:52):
So like I said, we're startingto see more and more lenders
adopt this stance of let's havea look at the net profit and see
if we can use that.
It's it's relatively new intothe marketplace.
I think traditionally, youknow, I could be wrong here, but
the only lender was really goodat doing that for many, many
years was Clydesdale, you know,which is now part of Virgin.
Virgins still look at income inthat way as well.
(19:15):
So I think the misconception,you know, from the space that we
come in historically, we'reprofessional day rate
contractors in the IT space, isI'm a contractor, I'm looking
for a contractor mortgage,therefore it's going to be more
expensive.
The first thing we kind of sayto people is there isn't any
such thing as a contractormortgage.
(19:36):
What we're doing is presentingyou as a contractor to a lender,
the same lender that someonethat's employed can access, but
we're presenting you in a waythat is understandable, that the
underwriter could becomfortable with lending to you.
So you're not being penalisedfor having a higher interest
rate.
What you're doing is meetingthe affordability of the lender
(19:57):
so that mortgage funding isacceptable, you know, and it's
the same kind of rate thatyou'll see.
So based on your circumstances,if you were going to X lender,
if you were employed orself-employed, you're still
going to X lender because that'sthe lender that's willing to
lend to you.
Does that make sense?
Dr James (20:13):
It does, absolutely.
And that's that's it, it's it'sI understand what you're
saying.
You're what you're saying isthere's no such, I think you
said this off camera, but justto requote you, because it uh it
it uh how can I say this, itsort of resonated with me.
Uh you said that there is nosuch thing as a dentist-only
(20:33):
mortgage, right?
Or a dentist-specific mortgage,right?
It's all about how you presentthe info to them.
And we and and be basically aslong as we're treated uh
similarly to these other, howcan I say this, uh, professions
which have complex incomeinverted commas, that actually
there's a lot of parallelsthere.
So, in a way, when it'spresented in the right way, well
(20:54):
the brokers understand it orthey get it.
Will (20:57):
Yeah, because it's gonna attempt an analogy that it may
be completely off-piece, and youmight turn around and say, No,
you've got that completelywrong.
But I'd imagine if there was adental problem, two different
dentists will look at it in twodifferent ways and they'll
tackle it in two different ways.
Dr James (21:12):
Three different ways.
Three different ways.
Sometimes it depends on theweather exactly.
Will (21:17):
And for us as brokers, it's similar is that it's about
a broker's understanding ofright, how can we present this
income that fits the that policyof the lender that's gonna work
and give the result?
One of the things that we liketo talk about is, you know, what
is the motivation?
You're looking at buying ahome.
Why are you looking at buying ahome?
Like, what is the priority?
My job is to help that you knowdream come true.
(21:40):
You know, how can I do that inthe most effective way that's
gonna mean that what you want todo is possible, you know, and
that's that's that's the way inwhich we certainly go about the
work in which we do.
And if if it means you can'tget a mortgage from Halifax, but
you can get a mortgage fromhere, that's the difference
between you being able to buythe dream property or not.
And most people are prettyaccepting that that is what it
(22:01):
is.
Dr James (22:02):
Nice.
Tell me this.
Obviously, interest rates arewell, it's not clear where
they're gonna go for the moment.
Is now a good time to if ifsomeone's let's say someone's
mortgage is coming up forrenewal uh pretty soon, is is
now a good time to take out amortgage, or is now a good time
to think about renewing yourmortgage?
Will (22:24):
Oh, it's this is this is like the question.
Dr James (22:27):
And I know that that's I know that that's slightly
curvedball question, but that'show people think, right?
That's how everyone thinks.
Will (22:33):
Oh, 100%.
And it's conversations we'rehaving all the time.
So okay, if you'reremortgaging, okay, you should
be looking at securing aninterest rate six months before
that rate comes to an end.
Okay, that that that's thethat's the sweet spot.
A good broker, so what we woulddo is, you know, I've got a
client today, we just secured aninterest rate for a remortgage
(22:54):
that's due in six months' time.
Why?
Well, if interest rates go up,we've secured a rate that's
lower, that's not changing.
If interest rates go down, I'venow got time to switch that
rate to the lower one that'savailable.
So I'm always ensuring that theclient is getting the best deal
possible.
Okay.
And we can do that six monthsout.
The reason why is on average,mortgage offers last about six
(23:16):
months, okay, before then youhave to renew the offer and and
and potentially that rate'sgone.
So you can secure that for sixmonths, which is why that's a
sweet spot.
So if you are remortgaging andyour remortgage is due in six
months' time, get on the phoneand give us a call and let us
have a look at what rates areavailable because uh securing an
(23:36):
interest rate today could saveyou money in the future, or will
always ensure that you'regetting the best deal possible.
And that's certainly what wewould do.
The reality is that we don'thave a crystal ball.
And when people say,particularly, oh, when's the
best time to buy a property?
It's always in the past.
You know, we're very good ashuman beings looking back in
(23:57):
hindsight.
Oh, in hindsight, I should havedone this, I should have done
that.
No one knows.
And this is where we go back tothat thing we said earlier is
that it's about what's yourmotivation, what's your
priority?
You should be led by thatbecause what's the alternative?
And some people said, Oh, I'mgonna, I'm not gonna buy now,
I'm just gonna carry on rent,I'm gonna wait until the market
improves.
You know, what define that?
(24:17):
What do you mean by marketimproves?
Well, until property pricesfall, that might be another five
years, all the while yourrent's going up, you know.
It's that sort of conversationabout what is the priority?
Well, I want to move, I want tohave my own place, not paying
rent.
Okay, well, we can make thathappen.
And whatever that propertyprice is, the property price is,
you know.
And I think um, just frompersonal experience, you know,
(24:41):
I've always I think a part maybeof a generation have just
missed out.
I think when we we sold um ourhome a few years back, we sold
it just before they then put thebreak in terms of the stamp
duty holiday.
So we paid stamp duty.
If we waited a couple ofmonths, we wouldn't have had to
pay stamp duty.
And it was like there's never aright time.
(25:03):
The right time is based on yourcircumstances and when is the
right time.
It shouldn't be led by I'mgonna wait for interest rates to
be lower because it might neverhappen and they might go up.
It shouldn't be I'm gonna waitfor property prices to fall,
because it might they might notfall.
And all the while, what are youpaying out until that happens?
Because then it's interesting.
Dr James (25:23):
And then just one more thing just to round off.
Obviously, there is somechanges afoot tax-wise, which
are gonna kick in on the 6th ofApril.
Changes to BADR is an exampleof that.
Are there any property-specificchanges that are coming up on
(25:43):
the 6th of April that we need tobe aware of, which incentivize
us to think about maybe movingthings forwards a bit sooner in
the property front?
Will (25:51):
Not sure.
We're waiting for the budget,aren't we?
Um, and there's uh obviouslywe've got the mini budget coming
up.
Dr James (25:57):
What I mean is the one that was previously announced.
Is there any ones that Dentistsshould be aware of?
People should be aware of.
Will (26:02):
No, a lot of the big changes that were in place are
in place.
So Stamp Duty was the big one.
They they kind of introducedthat overnight.
Um, I think December last yearand December, yeah, December
last year.
Um, no, there isn't any bigones at the moment that we're
aware of.
What I think nervousness of themarket at the moment is the
housing market is pretty staleat the second, it's pretty
(26:24):
stagnant, and property prices inareas are falling, they're
increasing slightly, interestrates are around about that four
and a half to five percentmark.
We've seen some rates that areyes, you know, maybe 3.9.
Um, but they've kind of goneand they've all increased.
So at the moment, we're we'regoing through this this light
(26:44):
tide of rise and fall that youwould naturally see.
But I think the market feelslike it's nervous about yes,
this this mini budget that'scoming up and what perceived
changes could then take placethat will then come into effect
next April, if or earlier.
And it's a bit of nervousnessaround that.
Dr James (27:04):
I see.
So we're gonna wait and see onthat one.
Nothing, nothing that we knowof so far from the last budget,
but things could very muchchange.
And I know Rachel Reeves hasbeen probing with uh tax rises.
I've seen, I've seen, you know,when they you know what the
government do, right?
They they'll they'll they'lltest the water by saying
something along the lines of,hmm, well, I'm thinking about
(27:26):
it, uh, just to see how it'sgonna go down, and then based on
the public response, they'lleither do it or not do it.
Uh I've I've known it, I thinkthere's a little bit of that
going on at the minute.
Anyway, I guess we're gonnafind out, aren't we?
Will (27:38):
Absolutely.
But the other thing is, youknow, I think some of the
changes that happened before,you know, you think about the
employer's tax nationalinsurance contribution.
So look, James, uh, it's beenabsolutely great being on this
podcast with you.
It's the first time I've done apodcast, and it's been never
you honestly could not tell fairplay.
Dr James (27:55):
I wish my first podcast were I was articulate as
you were just like chatting,what can I say?
Will (28:02):
Um but I'm just gonna give a quick shout out.
So I we've talked about it, Iknow that we have, but I've had
some dental work done and hadsome severe dental pain, and as
you said, it you're a bit of ageek for this sort of thing, and
we've shared images.
I can't remember what you saidit was called, but um Glenn Home
Dentistry up in uh sort ofBasin Stoke is where I went.
And just a shout out to theguys there, because he said he
(28:24):
is part of the group, and we hada bit of a conversation um last
week, thankfully, like before,you know, I had stuff in my
mouth, um, just to talk aboutmortgages and things like that,
and that it is possible and sortof said that I was doing this.
So we'll we were both excitedabout doing it, but it's been
absolutely great.
But likewise, for any of youlisteners, um, you know, in
terms of my details, you candrop me an email um at William
(28:46):
at Cleerly.
So we spell clearlydifferently, so cleery.
co.uk, um, or you can just giveme a call, 02394-212903.
Um, and I think you'll probablyhave the links, etc., that
people can access.
Um, but look, we we reallyenjoy talking about mortgages.
(29:06):
We enjoy having a conversation,and for us that is very much
the priority.
Let's just have a conversationand understand what it is you're
looking to do, and then we'llfind out what's the best way to
help someone achieve that goal.
I think we sort of in asociety, aren't we, where we're
kind of nurtured to believe thathome ownership is the goal, and
a lot of people strive tohaving their own roof over their
(29:28):
head.
You know, we want to make thatas possible as as we can.
And we've had a lot of successdoing it with the kind of
complex space.
Us dentists know that getting a mortgage for ourselves
is not always the easiest thingto do.
And really, it's a good idea toget some special input because
our incomes are complicated.
But why is that the case?
We're going to be covering thattoday.
Why it is different, the stuffthat we need to know in order to
navigate the mortgage landscapeand what we can do about it in
(00:22):
order to get the best deal.
I have with me today expert,mortgage broker to dentists, Mr.
Will Coe.
Looking forward to gettingstuck in.
I'm also happy to share thatthere is free verifiable CPD
associated with this podcastepisode.
Whenever you finish theepisode, all you have to do is
click the link in the podcastdescription.
It'll take you right throughthe Dentists Who Invest website.
(00:44):
You'll be able to complete ashort questionnaire, and once
passed, you fill in yourreflections, and we'll go ahead
and email over to you yourverifiable CPD certificate,
which is entirely free.
What that means is this podcastepisode will be able to
contribute towards yourverifiable CPD hours during this
learning cycle.
Why are Dentists considered tohave complex inverted commands
(01:14):
income in the eyes of thelenders?
Will (01:18):
So I think a definition of complex in itself is that it's
complicated to understand.
So what we know is, as with alot of people that are perhaps
self-employed, is that there'sdifferent streams in which the
income comes from.
So where there's differentstreams is how is that then
presented to a lender?
And quite often, you know,you've got an underwriter that
may be looking at a case, theywant the simplest way to
(01:41):
understand this because they'rethe one that's basically signing
off hundreds of thousands ofpounds worth of funds.
Is this a safe investment theother way around?
So for them, they want toreally understand it.
And kind of the simpler we canmake that, then the easier it's
going to be.
So complex incomes, I think,for dentists, lots of different
streams, whether you'reemployed, sole trader, or
(02:03):
operating for a limited companyas a partnership or by yourself,
you've got so many differentstreams of income.
So understanding it and makingit simpler for an underwriter to
understand is probably the keything.
Dr James (02:15):
Understood.
So really, the second that westop being in an employed
dentist, as in working in an NHShospital, for example, we're
then all of a sudden consideredto be complex in Verticomas in
the eyes of the underwriters,which is basically probably 98%
of dentists anyway.
Would you even call it even aself-employed associate who's
(02:38):
who's trading as a sole traderis technically complex?
Will (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, and and sometimes even evenmore so, because if it's a
partnership, um, you know, whatwhat percentage share do you
have of the company?
So what are you entitled to?
What could you withdraw?
Um, you know, the turnover,what what is what is your
contribution to that, I suppose?
So it yeah, it is just ascomplicated.
Dr James (03:05):
Interesting.
All right, let's get into itthen.
Let's talk about Dentists andtheir mortgages and what they
can do to navigate the landscapeof borrowing guests in order to
get the best deal.
Because if you think about it,this is such a pivotal decision
of our lives, right?
Our careers.
We are saying yes to somethingthat we're gonna have to be
(03:27):
bound to repay for 25 years,potentially.
Uh more than just always 25years, are they?
Will (03:35):
No, you can have longer.
Dr James (03:37):
Oh, there we go.
I'm learning as well.
Interesting.
So there you go.
So you can have longer if youwish.
Uh, but yeah, anyway, soobviously this is a massive
decision.
Let's talk about the dentistswho are soul traders, first of
all.
Let's keep it nice and simpleand then we'll build up in terms
of complexity, I would suggest.
So let's say NHS, soul trader,close to 100% NHS.
(04:00):
We've obviously got to factorin UDAs because that's how
dentists get paid.
What do those dentists need toknow, or what can they do in
order to get the best dealversus going to a standard
broker?
Will (04:11):
Okay, fine.
So I think a couple of um,let's get a couple of
misconceptions out of the way isthat a lot of people that
become self-employed, okay, theimmediate reaction is, oh, I
can't get a mortgage.
Okay.
I don't believe in that phrase,I can't get a mortgage.
Anyone can get a mortgage, it'sjust a question of how much.
Okay.
So that that key question abouthow much is where a broker will
(04:33):
spend time understanding,firstly, how much you're earning
to your income, what's yourexpenditure, and then like an
affordability assessment.
So that's kind of the firstbit.
So the income, if you're a soletrader, you know, or you know,
you are employed by the NHS andthen you've got private work as
a sole trader.
It's no different, really, tolet's say a barrister.
(04:56):
It's no different actually toanyone who's employed that has a
side hustle.
Okay.
You're employed, you've got amain income.
That can be assessed as a basicincome.
Where you're a sole trader,you've got additional income
you've got coming in that thenyou deal with your own taxation
for.
That's the definition of beingself-employed.
And so what a lender wouldprobably look at is they want to
(05:18):
see two years' worth ofaccounts of you being a sole
trader.
There are some that will do oneyear's worth of accounts, but
you've got your employedplay-sips, you've then got
additional work that you dowhere you do your own tax
calculations, and you'll have uhwhat we call like an SA 302 at
the end of each year, and onthere it'll detail what's your
employed income, what is yourself-employed income, what's the
(05:40):
total amount that you're, youknow, that that's due to be
calculated for tax.
And that that's just that issimply what it is.
Dr James (05:47):
Nice.
And that's the standard way ofdoing things.
But I know that we had someother podcasts recently um where
there was the the the guest wassaying that there are certain
lenders out there who will evenconsider less than one year.
Yeah, absolutely.
Will (06:00):
So it it it depends on what the or or the way in which
that income is made up.
So, you know, another portionof what we specialize in is
contractors.
Okay, so you might have a locumworker who is assigned to a
particular practice on aself-employed basis and will
have a contract.
And that contract might be forthree, you know, six, nine,
(06:21):
twelve months.
If you think about a contractof employment, everyone has a
contract of employment.
The difference with this isthat it's short term, so it's
temporary, and you're dealingwith your own taxation.
But if you've got a contract ofemployment, it kind of means
that you've got a guaranteedamount of income in that period
of time.
What's more is that somelenders would also look at what
(06:42):
you're invoicing.
So they might look at the lastsix months or three months worth
of invoices to say, right,here's the additional income,
here's how we've calculated thatbefore a tax calculation's been
submitted.
You know, and that's verycommon, particularly in the
medical industry, which youknow, dentists are included in.
Dr James (07:01):
Interesting.
And how many, how many uh ofthe uh, how can we say this,
underwriters out there know whata UDA is or how that works?
Is that common?
Does that restrict the amountof people that will be able to
borrow from?
Will (07:16):
Um no, so I think a lot of underwriters will be aware of
it, but it's not theunderwriters, it's the brokers.
So the brokers need to be awareof it to be able to present it
to the underwriter in the rightway.
And you know, quite often, youknow, we've had many phone calls
with people that said, Oh, I'vegone, I've gone to a broker
that's fairly generic ornon-specialist or direct to a
lender, and you know, I don'tfeel like they're understanding
(07:39):
my income.
You know, so we would sit andhave a conversation spend time
understanding what they do, andthen would look to present it,
I'm gonna say, in the right wayor in a way that's
understandable, that includeseverything.
So then the underwriter goes,Oh, that's what this is and then
know how to assess it.
So you know, it's one of thosethings.
If you present, you know, ifyou present an apple to someone,
(08:00):
it's an apple, you know.
But if you then present a pair,it's a pair.
Sometimes if it's an apple andthey're looking at it, you're
trying to convince them there'ssomething other than an apple,
they're not gonna shift.
You have to present it in theright way that's easily
understandable and evidence.
Dr James (08:17):
Understood.
Okay, so we've just dealt withsole traders, and these are the
a few of the caveats that it'sgood to be aware of.
Let's talk about limitedcompanies.
Yeah.
Specifically associate dentistswho trade as limited companies
just for the moment, and then wecan move on to principles a
(08:37):
little after that.
Although, having said that,maybe the rules are similar-ish.
I guess we'll we'll we'll findout, won't we?
Yeah.
Now, traditionally, correct meif I'm wrong, Will, a lot of the
underwriters slash brokers outthere will they won't really
treat retained profits in thecompany the same as well,
(09:00):
withdrawals from the company.
So let's say everybody's tryingto be tax efficient and they
want to keep their earnings ortheir income, their personal
income, to 50k a year, then whatthat can mean is well, they've
only got 50k a year of earningsin the eyes of the brokers, even
though they've got much more intheir limited company, which
(09:21):
will obviously restrict theirborrowing.
Is that still the case?
Will (09:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
If you think about it, youknow, that the lenders looking
at a very traditional sense isyou're one of two things, you're
either employed orself-employed, right?
So when you're self-employed,what are you a sole trader, a
director, a partnership, so onand so forth.
So if you go down the idea of alimited company and include
those perhaps in thepartnership, is the traditional
view is what is your taxableincome?
(09:46):
Okay, now your taxable incomeis what you've otherwise
declared to HMRCs, would be yoursalary and your dividends.
Okay, now, as you quite rightlypointed out, James, is that if
you're tax efficient, you'reonly going to withdraw what you
need to withdraw.
That's the benefit of usingyour own limited company.
That's the benefit of beingself-employed.
But the problem with that isthat if you're now looking to
(10:09):
get a mortgage, your liabilityis going to increase.
So how can we show that you canafford to increase what you pay
yourself when the liabilityincreases?
Because you've withdrawn verylittle, you've got lots of
retained profit.
And this is where we have someof these policies that allow us
to look at that net profit.
What we're talking about is howmuch are you actually earning
(10:32):
for your company is X amount.
Yes, you're withdrawing this,but what can you withdraw?
And so this is where you know,very few lenders, but more
coming into this now withlooking at the net profit of the
company plus the salary you'rewithdrawing, because that is
feasibly what your futureincome's going to be.
Dr James (10:50):
I see, particularly in the case where it's associate
limited companies, you know,there's no real outgoings in the
company other than what they'repaying themselves, right?
Will (10:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, absol absolutely.
And so then we come down to thething of like partnerships and
what's your shareholding, andyou know, you've got the company
as separate, you might haveyour own company that is working
relationship with that.
It can become very, verycomplex with lots of different
layers.
The role of a broker, andcertainly what we would do is
sit down and try and strip backthose layers to go, right?
(11:21):
What is the simplest way topresent this?
You are a dentist, you areoperating as you know,
self-employed, so you're dealingwith your own taxation.
How does your income look?
And we would look at thingslike what is your shareholding
of the company?
So if it's 50%, 75%.
So what's your shareholding ofthe net profit of that company
(11:42):
that you're entitled to?
You know, it is those furtherquestions that we have that
we'll start to understand, andthen build up a case that we can
then present to a lender tosay, here is James, he's a
dentist, here's he's got a 75%shareholding of this company,
and here's the net profit ofthat company, and here's 75% of
it.
Oh, and here's what he's paidhimself as a salary.
(12:04):
Then we use that for thepurpose of affordability.
Does that make sense?
Dr James (12:08):
It does, yeah.
And it's amazing that how manypeople out there nowadays uh
still don't know that that'spossible, and how many people
are fed that narrative, and itputs it puts them off borrowing
for a long, long time.
Whereas actually it is possibleyou just have to have the right
lenders in your back pocket.
Will (12:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
And then the other challenge inall of this, though, is about
the longevity of the work.
So you said earlier abouthaving like a 25-year mortgage
term, you know, depending onyour age, actually, most
mortgage terms that certainlylooked at has been in the rounds
of 30, 35 years.
People often can take amortgage up to the age of 75, up
to the age of 70 or 68.
(12:48):
You know, there is a lot moreflexibility around the
marketplace based on individualcircumstances.
But, you know, when you look atthe the mortgage that you want
to have and how long you'regoing to have that for, the
longer you have the mortgageload of repayments are going to
be, the less income effects wewould need to present.
But the real concern of alender is how you're going to,
(13:10):
you know, if you'reself-employed, COVID is a good
example and your work dries up,you know, how are you going to
carry on making these mortgagepayments?
Now, one of the really greatthings when you look at
employment, and this is why Iwant to split away from tax
status and look at employment,is do you work in an industry
where there's longevity in thework?
Well, take social workers, forexample.
(13:32):
Yes.
You know, we're crying out forsocial workers, you know,
unfortunately.
And so what's the chance of ifthis work dries up, can you get
new work?
Well, yes.
And I think it's the same withdentistry, is we're crying out
for more NHS dentists.
If suddenly the private workcompletely, you know, flatlined,
could you go get employment asan NHS dentist?
(13:56):
Yes, you can.
So there is longevity in thework that you do because the
demand for it is really, reallyhigh.
And that gives comfort to thelender that not just that the
mortgage is affordable, but it'saffordable for the long term.
Does that make sense?
Dr James (14:10):
It does.
It does.
It means that they're morewilling to lend to you.
Will (14:16):
Yeah.
And I think this is probably,and this goes back to what we're
talking about, you know,complex, doesn't have to be
complicated.
Is we want to simplify this.
And we simplify it by lookingat the individual.
What does that person do for aliving?
How do they earn their money?
And then how can we evidencethe money that they are earning
(14:37):
to maximize their potential formortgage funding?
Dr James (14:41):
And you know, let me share one other thing on that,
actually, uh, which isinteresting, you know, just uh
with relevance to what you justsaid, uh, because because,
because, because where was Igoing with that?
Yeah, when it comes to yourlimited company and when it
comes to the retained profitsthat are in there as well, does
that change?
Does how the lenders andbrokers uh how they perceive you
(15:06):
from a risk perspective changein any way the second that
you've got all these additionalmoving parts, as in you've got
your own dental practice, forexample, and you're still
technically an individual that'smaking drawings from a company,
but the company's way morecomplicated at that point,
right?
Like it's not just a companywhich is basically just a tax
shelter for your money.
(15:26):
I mean, it is that, but it alsohas all these other variables
in there.
Does the logic still hold true?
Are they are they a little bitmore wary in that situation?
How does things change?
Will (15:37):
Well, I think you know, is it's about risk and
probability.
So what is the risk?
Okay, so the risk is that thecompany goes completely under.
What's the probability of thathappening?
You know, that that's probablythe key metric we'll look at.
And this is why for us,focusing on an individual and
what they do for a living andwhat's the probability they can
(15:59):
continue working if the worstwas to happen in terms of
employment and work dries up.
That's what we would look to doand look to present.
I don't know if that answersthe question.
But I think for a lot of peopleis that is the risk, the risk
is no different.
If someone's permanentlyemployed, they could be pulled
into the office today and toldthat now redundant.
That's the risk.
(16:19):
What's the probability of thathappening?
Dr James (16:22):
Yeah.
No, that does answer thequestion because you're
basically saying it's the same,really.
Whereas you're basically sayingit's the same.
That is clarity right there.
You know, it's not that it'sany uh, you know, it's viewed in
any different terms, whichwhich is which is useful to know
in and of itself.
And how does that affect theinterest rate then?
I know interest rate isn't theonly parameter which determines
(16:43):
how much you're going to berepaying every month, but as a
very crude way of licking yourfinger and sticking in the air
and saying, okay, there's anapproximation here as to how
negatively that we're impactedby one situation or the other,
how would the interest rate bedifferent, let's say, in the
situation where someone has aload of retained profits in
(17:04):
their company versus gettingpaid exactly the same amount of
money but into a personal name?
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(17:30):
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description.
Will (17:46):
Okay, so again, it's looking at and I think the focal
point is the assumption of oh,because I've got this type of
income, my mortgage is going tobe more expensive.
Okay.
So if we take that to one side,what we've got to understand is
that there are hundreds oflenders out there, and all of
them have different policies,different kind of risk
(18:07):
appetites.
You know, if we look at what wehave of the high street, which
is the likes of Halifax,Netwest, Nationwide, Santander,
HSBC, you know, the big onesrecognize, you know, a lot of
them, when they'reself-employed, because they're
so big, they'll want to keep itnice and simple, salary and
dividends.
But then a layer under that,you've got some really good
other lenders like CommentaryBuilding Society, Accord, which
(18:30):
is part of the YorkshireBuilding Society as well,
Skipton Building Society,Principality as well, really
good lender.
Um, all of them have got thistype of policy where they can
look at net profit.
So they can look at retainedprofit, but their interest rates
are just as competitive as whatyou find from those big lenders
on the high street.
And that's not to say those biglenders on the high street
wouldn't look at it.
Like I said, it's about how wepresent the income.
(18:52):
So like I said, we're startingto see more and more lenders
adopt this stance of let's havea look at the net profit and see
if we can use that.
It's it's relatively new intothe marketplace.
I think traditionally, youknow, I could be wrong here, but
the only lender was really goodat doing that for many, many
years was Clydesdale, you know,which is now part of Virgin.
Virgins still look at income inthat way as well.
(19:15):
So I think the misconception,you know, from the space that we
come in historically, we'reprofessional day rate
contractors in the IT space, isI'm a contractor, I'm looking
for a contractor mortgage,therefore it's going to be more
expensive.
The first thing we kind of sayto people is there isn't any
such thing as a contractormortgage.
(19:36):
What we're doing is presentingyou as a contractor to a lender,
the same lender that someonethat's employed can access, but
we're presenting you in a waythat is understandable, that the
underwriter could becomfortable with lending to you.
So you're not being penalisedfor having a higher interest
rate.
What you're doing is meetingthe affordability of the lender
(19:57):
so that mortgage funding isacceptable, you know, and it's
the same kind of rate thatyou'll see.
So based on your circumstances,if you were going to X lender,
if you were employed orself-employed, you're still
going to X lender because that'sthe lender that's willing to
lend to you.
Does that make sense?
Dr James (20:13):
It does, absolutely.
And that's that's it, it's it'sI understand what you're
saying.
You're what you're saying isthere's no such, I think you
said this off camera, but justto requote you, because it uh it
it uh how can I say this, itsort of resonated with me.
Uh you said that there is nosuch thing as a dentist-only
(20:33):
mortgage, right?
Or a dentist-specific mortgage,right?
It's all about how you presentthe info to them.
And we and and be basically aslong as we're treated uh
similarly to these other, howcan I say this, uh, professions
which have complex incomeinverted commas, that actually
there's a lot of parallelsthere.
So, in a way, when it'spresented in the right way, well
(20:54):
the brokers understand it orthey get it.
Will (20:57):
Yeah, because it's gonna attempt an analogy that it may
be completely off-piece, and youmight turn around and say, No,
you've got that completelywrong.
But I'd imagine if there was adental problem, two different
dentists will look at it in twodifferent ways and they'll
tackle it in two different ways.
Dr James (21:12):
Three different ways.
Three different ways.
Sometimes it depends on theweather exactly.
Will (21:17):
And for us as brokers, it's similar is that it's about
a broker's understanding ofright, how can we present this
income that fits the that policyof the lender that's gonna work
and give the result?
One of the things that we liketo talk about is, you know, what
is the motivation?
You're looking at buying ahome.
Why are you looking at buying ahome?
Like, what is the priority?
My job is to help that you knowdream come true.
(21:40):
You know, how can I do that inthe most effective way that's
gonna mean that what you want todo is possible, you know, and
that's that's that's the way inwhich we certainly go about the
work in which we do.
And if if it means you can'tget a mortgage from Halifax, but
you can get a mortgage fromhere, that's the difference
between you being able to buythe dream property or not.
And most people are prettyaccepting that that is what it
(22:01):
is.
Dr James (22:02):
Nice.
Tell me this.
Obviously, interest rates arewell, it's not clear where
they're gonna go for the moment.
Is now a good time to if ifsomeone's let's say someone's
mortgage is coming up forrenewal uh pretty soon, is is
now a good time to take out amortgage, or is now a good time
to think about renewing yourmortgage?
Will (22:24):
Oh, it's this is this is like the question.
Dr James (22:27):
And I know that that's I know that that's slightly
curvedball question, but that'show people think, right?
That's how everyone thinks.
Will (22:33):
Oh, 100%.
And it's conversations we'rehaving all the time.
So okay, if you'reremortgaging, okay, you should
be looking at securing aninterest rate six months before
that rate comes to an end.
Okay, that that that's thethat's the sweet spot.
A good broker, so what we woulddo is, you know, I've got a
client today, we just secured aninterest rate for a remortgage
(22:54):
that's due in six months' time.
Why?
Well, if interest rates go up,we've secured a rate that's
lower, that's not changing.
If interest rates go down, I'venow got time to switch that
rate to the lower one that'savailable.
So I'm always ensuring that theclient is getting the best deal
possible.
Okay.
And we can do that six monthsout.
The reason why is on average,mortgage offers last about six
(23:16):
months, okay, before then youhave to renew the offer and and
and potentially that rate'sgone.
So you can secure that for sixmonths, which is why that's a
sweet spot.
So if you are remortgaging andyour remortgage is due in six
months' time, get on the phoneand give us a call and let us
have a look at what rates areavailable because uh securing an
(23:36):
interest rate today could saveyou money in the future, or will
always ensure that you'regetting the best deal possible.
And that's certainly what wewould do.
The reality is that we don'thave a crystal ball.
And when people say,particularly, oh, when's the
best time to buy a property?
It's always in the past.
You know, we're very good ashuman beings looking back in
(23:57):
hindsight.
Oh, in hindsight, I should havedone this, I should have done
that.
No one knows.
And this is where we go back tothat thing we said earlier is
that it's about what's yourmotivation, what's your
priority?
You should be led by thatbecause what's the alternative?
And some people said, Oh, I'mgonna, I'm not gonna buy now,
I'm just gonna carry on rent,I'm gonna wait until the market
improves.
You know, what define that?
(24:17):
What do you mean by marketimproves?
Well, until property pricesfall, that might be another five
years, all the while yourrent's going up, you know.
It's that sort of conversationabout what is the priority?
Well, I want to move, I want tohave my own place, not paying
rent.
Okay, well, we can make thathappen.
And whatever that propertyprice is, the property price is,
you know.
And I think um, just frompersonal experience, you know,
(24:41):
I've always I think a part maybeof a generation have just
missed out.
I think when we we sold um ourhome a few years back, we sold
it just before they then put thebreak in terms of the stamp
duty holiday.
So we paid stamp duty.
If we waited a couple ofmonths, we wouldn't have had to
pay stamp duty.
And it was like there's never aright time.
(25:03):
The right time is based on yourcircumstances and when is the
right time.
It shouldn't be led by I'mgonna wait for interest rates to
be lower because it might neverhappen and they might go up.
It shouldn't be I'm gonna waitfor property prices to fall,
because it might they might notfall.
And all the while, what are youpaying out until that happens?
Because then it's interesting.
Dr James (25:23):
And then just one more thing just to round off.
Obviously, there is somechanges afoot tax-wise, which
are gonna kick in on the 6th ofApril.
Changes to BADR is an exampleof that.
Are there any property-specificchanges that are coming up on
(25:43):
the 6th of April that we need tobe aware of, which incentivize
us to think about maybe movingthings forwards a bit sooner in
the property front?
Will (25:51):
Not sure.
We're waiting for the budget,aren't we?
Um, and there's uh obviouslywe've got the mini budget coming
up.
Dr James (25:57):
What I mean is the one that was previously announced.
Is there any ones that Dentistsshould be aware of?
People should be aware of.
Will (26:02):
No, a lot of the big changes that were in place are
in place.
So Stamp Duty was the big one.
They they kind of introducedthat overnight.
Um, I think December last yearand December, yeah, December
last year.
Um, no, there isn't any bigones at the moment that we're
aware of.
What I think nervousness of themarket at the moment is the
housing market is pretty staleat the second, it's pretty
(26:24):
stagnant, and property prices inareas are falling, they're
increasing slightly, interestrates are around about that four
and a half to five percentmark.
We've seen some rates that areyes, you know, maybe 3.9.
Um, but they've kind of goneand they've all increased.
So at the moment, we're we'regoing through this this light
(26:44):
tide of rise and fall that youwould naturally see.
But I think the market feelslike it's nervous about yes,
this this mini budget that'scoming up and what perceived
changes could then take placethat will then come into effect
next April, if or earlier.
And it's a bit of nervousnessaround that.
Dr James (27:04):
I see.
So we're gonna wait and see onthat one.
Nothing, nothing that we knowof so far from the last budget,
but things could very muchchange.
And I know Rachel Reeves hasbeen probing with uh tax rises.
I've seen, I've seen, you know,when they you know what the
government do, right?
They they'll they'll they'lltest the water by saying
something along the lines of,hmm, well, I'm thinking about
(27:26):
it, uh, just to see how it'sgonna go down, and then based on
the public response, they'lleither do it or not do it.
Uh I've I've known it, I thinkthere's a little bit of that
going on at the minute.
Anyway, I guess we're gonnafind out, aren't we?
Will (27:38):
Absolutely.
But the other thing is, youknow, I think some of the
changes that happened before,you know, you think about the
employer's tax nationalinsurance contribution.
So look, James, uh, it's beenabsolutely great being on this
podcast with you.
It's the first time I've done apodcast, and it's been never
you honestly could not tell fairplay.
Dr James (27:55):
I wish my first podcast were I was articulate as
you were just like chatting,what can I say?
Will (28:02):
Um but I'm just gonna give a quick shout out.
So I we've talked about it, Iknow that we have, but I've had
some dental work done and hadsome severe dental pain, and as
you said, it you're a bit of ageek for this sort of thing, and
we've shared images.
I can't remember what you saidit was called, but um Glenn Home
Dentistry up in uh sort ofBasin Stoke is where I went.
And just a shout out to theguys there, because he said he
(28:24):
is part of the group, and we hada bit of a conversation um last
week, thankfully, like before,you know, I had stuff in my
mouth, um, just to talk aboutmortgages and things like that,
and that it is possible and sortof said that I was doing this.
So we'll we were both excitedabout doing it, but it's been
absolutely great.
But likewise, for any of youlisteners, um, you know, in
terms of my details, you candrop me an email um at William
(28:46):
at Cleerly.
So we spell clearlydifferently, so cleery.
co.uk, um, or you can just giveme a call, 02394-212903.
Um, and I think you'll probablyhave the links, etc., that
people can access.
Um, but look, we we reallyenjoy talking about mortgages.
(29:06):
We enjoy having a conversation,and for us that is very much
the priority.
Let's just have a conversationand understand what it is you're
looking to do, and then we'llfind out what's the best way to
help someone achieve that goal.
I think we sort of in asociety, aren't we, where we're
kind of nurtured to believe thathome ownership is the goal, and
a lot of people strive tohaving their own roof over their
(29:28):
head.
You know, we want to make thatas possible as as we can.
And we've had a lot of successdoing it with the kind of
complex space.
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