May 19, 2025 • 33 mins
You can download your FREE report on how you can avoid financial mistakes as a dentist using the link just here >>> dentistswhoinvest.com/podcastreport
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What if the key to transforming your dental practice profitability wasn't working harder, but working smarter? Dr. Amit Jilka's journey provides a masterclass in strategic dental business growth that any practice owner can learn from.
Starting with a modest single-surgery practice generating £300,000 annually in 2012, Dr. Jilka has built a remarkable dental enterprise now spanning 18 chairs across multiple locations, with a team of 35 clinicians completing over 550 implants and 400 orthodontic cases yearly. The transformation wasn't accidental, but methodically engineered through three critical pillars: exceptional Treatment Coordinators, comprehensively trained associates, and outstanding practice managers.
The revelation of properly implemented TCOs is perhaps most striking. Unlike the common misconception that TCOs are merely glorified receptionists, Dr. Jilka's TCOs conduct 30-45 minute appointments, performing scans, discussing financing, and comprehensive treatment options before patients even meet the dentist. This approach has dramatically increased both treatment plan acceptance rates (from 60% to 80% for implants) and overall treatment values.
What's particularly fascinating is Dr. Jilka's counterintuitive approach to personal clinical time. By reducing his own clinical hours to just half a day weekly and dedicating several days to mentoring associates instead, he initially took a personal income hit – but saw practice profitability soar. This powerful demonstration of working ON rather than IN the business highlights the leverage gained through systematic associate training and development.
The practice also employs distinct workflows for different treatment modalities, recognizing that implant and orthodontic patient journeys require different approaches to nurturing and conversion. Their structured follow-up protocol for high-value implant consultations exemplifies the attention to detail that drives their exceptional performance.
Whether you're struggling with case acceptance, associate productivity, or finding time to strategically grow your practice, Dr. Jilka's proven systems offer a roadmap to greater profitability without sacrificing clinical excellence or work-life balance. Ready to transform your dental practice from surviving to thriving? The blueprint is right here.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr James (00:01):
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the
Dempsey Invest Podcast.
This is an episode I've beenmeaning to do for absolutely
ages with Dr Amit Jilka, becauseI was flipping, blown away when
I met Amit for the very firsttime in real life, at a live day
, at a course, at a program.
I was blown away by hisknowledge and just how much he
(00:23):
knows about making implantsprofitable and also about making
Invisalign profitable as well.
And big clue, big, big hint,big tip, spoiler alert it starts
with being incredibly efficientand giving loads of value to
our patients.
But more on that in just aminute.
First of all, amit, how are you?
Dr Amit (00:41):
I'm good, thank you.
Dr James (00:44):
Wunderbar, wunderbar.
So, Amit, there'll be somepeople listening to this who've
met you and some people who haveyet to meet you.
If we could have a little bitof an intro, what that would
mean is that everybody could getto know you a little bit and
what you're about.
Dr Amit (00:58):
Yeah.
So yeah, I'm Amit Jhoka.
I graduated in Sheffield,bought a practice a couple of
years, just straight out ofuniversity in 2012.
It was a one surgery practicecalled Abbey House Dental and we
built it all the way up tothree practices on one road and
(01:18):
now have 13 surgeries across thethree sites, Recently launched
a new practice in Stoke-on-trentsquat practice and have
recently also launched ouracademy as well abbey house
dental, the academy.
So yeah, a lot going on um andI think what we're well known
for is um hitting high implantnumbers and hitting high
(01:41):
invisalign numbers um, and alsothe value that we give patients
and the value we give to ourassociates.
We feel like we give a really,really good service to our
associates, which we think isvery important.
Dr James (01:53):
Love that and it absolutely is.
And do you know what?
You know it in that very firstpractice that you mentioned,
abbey House, wasn't it?
Dr Amit (01:59):
Yeah.
Dr James (02:00):
Yeah, I know we were talking a little bit off camera
beforehand and you were sayingthere's a little bit of a story
there when it comes to how youtook the business from where it
was to where it is.
So do you know what?
We didn't actually get thechance to cover that, you and I,
when we were talking justbeforehand.
What a beautiful opportunity tocover it.
Right now Everybody's listening, because what that would mean
(02:20):
is that they can get a realunderstanding of just how well
you've done on that front.
Dr Amit (02:24):
That would mean is that they can get a real
understanding of just how wellyou've done on that front.
Yeah so, um, yeah so Igraduated in 2008 um and did max
facts for a year, had a passionthat I wanted to learn implants
and do implants, but alsowanted to own a practice
straight away.
And, oh yeah, looked at anumber of practices and at the
time we you know, I was livingin birmingham and staffordshire,
(02:48):
wasn't too far saw a smalllittle practice, didn't want to
take too much risk.
It was, it was a one surgerypractice with a small hygiene
room, so like one and a halfsurgeries and thought perfect,
ideal for me and my wife the twoof us to to kind of move in.
So 2012 we bought the practiceum and in those days it was
actually very, verystraightforward to get loans um,
(03:11):
considering what we had to putum.
The turnover practice at thetime was about 300k and so it's
a very small practice.
Had a nhs contract as well andwe had to.
We pretty much got the um afull loan for it, 100 loan um
from the bank because you know,straight out of max fax didn't
(03:34):
have much income, didn't havemuch money behind me, and it was
just, uh, yeah, the banks werejust willing to lend in those
days.
Very different story now.
Um, everyone being so cautious,especially, you know, when we
get to it, talking about the,the funding for the squat
practice recently was a very,very difficult um, but yeah, so
(03:55):
we, you know, bought thepractice and then 2012 did the
start.
My implant training with uh, rawcollege surgeons and um
continued to grow the implantside, which grew the practice
significantly.
Um, and then I think one of thecritical points was when my
wife really got into invisalignand we joined the my smart
(04:17):
network with sandeep kumar umand from that and training our
tcos and really pushing thedigital side of dentistry, we
grew from two surgeries to fivesurgeries, to 13 surgeries and
now, including the new site, youknow we've got 18 chairs now
and you know, doing significantnumbers of both of those
(04:41):
treatments as well as all theother parts of dentistry as a
practice.
We're quite well known forsedation as well.
We do a lot of sedation and geta lot of referrals for that.
So we've kind of grown ourdentistry on offering patients
the full plethora of dentistryand not just specific treatments
.
Dr James (05:00):
Gotcha.
Okay.
So one of the means that youachieved that enhancement in
numbers was by enhancing thescope of treatment.
Dr Amit (05:11):
Exactly, yeah, definitely Wonderful, okay.
Dr James (05:14):
And then, as well as that, within those different
modalities of treatment.
It was also about thinking,okay, how can we be efficient?
Can we be efficient as in, howcan we do a really good job for
the patient, first and foremost,but also be so efficient such
that we can provide a hugenumber of implants every single
year and a huge number ofInvisalign treatments every
(05:36):
single year?
Do you have any numbers andstats on those, just so
everybody can get a little bitof a feel for where you're at?
Dr Amit (05:41):
yeah, so we're doing about, in terms of ortho cases,
we're doing 400 plus cases umand in terms of implant numbers,
we're hitting about 550 600 ayear um at the moment I see,
okay, and is that across all the13 surgeries?
Dr James (05:57):
yeah, yeah, so that's across the whole group.
Brilliant, okay, cool, cool,cool, cool, cool, all right,
cool.
So just to go back to the storywe were talking a second ago,
the practice started out 300kturnover 300k turnover yeah
right got you and do you knowwhat that's interesting and how
many that was on two surgeriestwo, yeah well, I'd say one.
Dr Amit (06:16):
One surgery in a hygiene tiny little room, which
it was, which, yeah, we quicklygot changed amazing and you know
what.
Dr James (06:23):
There'll be a lot of people who maybe are in that
boat right now and they'll bethinking to themselves just what
do I do to hit the next levelof profitability?
What were the first few thingsthat you changed or enhanced to
begin to see an increase inrevenue in the business?
Apart from, apart from thescope of treatment we know that
that's, that's relevant whatwere the things that we did
within the, the surgery, as wellas that?
Dr Amit (06:46):
so, yeah, so we, we um built more surgeries.
Okay, simple, but if you don'thave enough surgeries, you can't
see enough patients.
And we train, we got therapistsin and therapists um increase
the scope of treatments we cando, increase the capacity of
what we could do, and we really.
(07:08):
What really made us fly was thewhole implementation of the TCO
and having the TCO as the firstpatient contact.
Once that patient sees the TCO,conversion rates went up.
Having a dedicated room for theTCOs and scanners for the TCOs,
I think, just changes the wholepractice, which means you as a
clinician can start becomingreally, really efficient in what
(07:31):
you're doing, but also, moreimportantly, the patient gets a
significantly better experienceof the practice.
Dr James (07:41):
You know what?
I saw a poll the other week onFacebook I can't remember what
Facebook group it was on and thepoll was do you have a TCO, yes
or no?
And there's still.
Everybody talks, everybodyraves about TCOs.
Nowadays.
There's still 60% of dentalpractices who don't have TCOs,
which I thought was fascinating.
Dr Amit (08:00):
Yeah, it's interesting and I think when some practice
say they've got a TCO, they'renot really TCOs, they're just
they're really NPCs.
You know, the new patient isusually just on the phone and
chatting to people.
What we see as a TCO is apatient facing almost a
(08:29):
clinician that's scanning andgoing through treatments and
options, with the patientdiscussing it being part of the
whole patient journey, just asmuch as the actual dentist is.
Dr James (08:34):
Um, can I just say npc nice video game reference there
.
I really enjoyed that.
For anybody for anybody who'snot necessarily a gamer npc
means non-playable characters,so so they're usually some sort
of character in the backgroundthat the main protagonist
doesn't really interact with orjust sees in the periphery.
So you definitely don't wantyour TCO to be that.
(08:54):
You want them to be aprotagonist, you want them to be
involved in the practice.
Dr Amit (08:57):
I think that works well .
Yeah, they're either NPCs orfrom a new patient coordinator,
or they're non-playablecharacters.
They're not actually in thegame either.
Dr James (09:04):
So love that.
I love that awesome.
So what aspects of the tco andtheir involvement in your
surgery did you notice were themost beneficial, or what?
What changes did you make in sofar as what, uh, what, what,
what, what, what.
What roles the tco fulfill foryou, or how did you implement
them into your practice?
Dr Amit (09:24):
that's a better question and so they literally
see the patient first up.
So in terms of the consultation, they don't see the dentist,
they see the TCO first, have amuch more longer time to build
rapport and chat to the patientand discuss treatment options
and what they want before theygo in to see the dentist for the
(09:47):
consultation, for the clinicalpart.
But prior to seeing theclinician, the TCO is getting
the scan done, the photos done,discussing.
You know how finance works aswell, because a lot of patients
do go for finance and so youknow almost taking all of the
stress out of dentistry awayfrom them, but also letting the
patient know what we do.
(10:07):
Now a lot of dentists just donot come across to a patient
about all the skill sets thatthey have.
So you'll do a consultation,but that patient doesn't really
know that.
You can offer implants, you cando Invisalign, you can do
whitening, you can do all ofthese things unless there's been
a trigger word that the patientsaid and you're discussing it.
What the TCO enables you to dois they are openly discussing
(10:30):
what the practice offers.
So the minute they come in foryour consultation, tco is like
patient wants whitening, he'snervous, possibly needs sedation
, he's considering teethstraightening.
And already your consultationis so much more thorough and
more detailed and more direct towhat the patient wants that
your conversion rates would justskyrocket.
Dr James (10:53):
That's cool as hell.
And how long are those TCOappointments?
How is that structured?
Dr Amit (10:59):
So they're 45 minutes oh they're good solar
appointments yeah good chunk forIn invisalign and implants and
they're half an hour if they'rejust a new patient gotcha and do
you pay?
Dr James (11:10):
do they?
Do you charge for that?
Uh the refundable deposit I seeyeah and otherwise, it
contributes towards thetreatment yeah, so.
Dr Amit (11:20):
But if they want to see the dentist so some patients
will pay then it's theexamination and consultation.
At that point there's a filterso that patients can come in
without any stress and if theydon't want to go ahead, it's not
wasting the dentist's time.
But if they do want to go ahead, they're paying and they're
committed.
(11:40):
You know so.
You know, dentists prefer itthat way.
Our associates prefer it thatway that they're actually seeing
patients that are already readyto go awesome and you strike me
as someone who measures thingsin your business.
Dr James (11:53):
Am I right in saying that?
Yeah, yeah, oh, I love that,mate, I could, just I could.
I knew that was coming, whichis great, and the reason I knew
that is because anybody who'sreally profitable measures
things.
You, you master what youmeasure.
So I'm interested to know sotreatment plan acceptance before
you had your TCO, treatmentplan acceptance rate as in
percentage versus treatment planacceptance rate after?
(12:15):
Do you have any stats on?
Dr Amit (12:17):
those, not any specific stats, but I would say that
when they see the TCO the uptakeof treatment is much greater,
especially for new patients.
So a new patient that's comingto just see a dentist, they will
have treatment plans that aremuch lower in value total value
than if a patient's in the TCO.
(12:37):
Then the dentist, which to meis phenomenal, because that
shows to me that sometimes somedentists are not consistently
good at talking about everything, um, and you know what the tco
does for a dental practice, andpractice principle is it gives
consistency to the conversionprocess that patients are being
(13:00):
told everything and just becausethey're saying you know this
dentist that can only offerinvisalign, you know that means
that dentist is only going to betalking about that one
treatment, um, whereas a tcrwill talk about everything, um,
which again gives youconsistency, and definitely some
associates um are really goodat that process themselves.
(13:21):
Um, and some people reallystruggle with talking about
money and all the differenttreatments, and so this almost
just acts as almost like asignboard for you love it.
Dr James (13:32):
So it's not only treatment plan acceptance
percentage, it's also treatmentplan value.
Dr Amit (13:36):
Yeah yeah, exactly big time.
Dr James (13:39):
Awesome, okay, cool.
And just one more thing,because I'm geeking out on this
right now, because I find thisfascinating as well deal flow
like whenever.
Whenever there's an inquiry atthe practice, do they is there
any sort of filter system atthat point?
Uh, or just does everybody whoinquires at the practice do?
Dr Amit (13:55):
they pretty much go, uh , straight through to the tco
and that's the primary so, yes,um, you know, we've got um a
couple of and we've got a coupleof people on telephone
reception.
We've got a call center thatgets all the calls coming in,
and then we have a number ofNPCs, new patient coordinators.
Dr James (14:16):
Oh sorry, when you said NPC earlier, I literally
thought you meant non-playablecharacters.
I thought that was a joke.
I thought that was a joke.
Dr Amit (14:24):
It kind of worked as a joke.
You did well with thatcharacters.
I thought that was a joke.
I thought it kind of worked asa joke.
You did well with that.
I thought that was a joke yes,anyway, I've actually basically
handle new patient inquiries, um, and any inquiries that come
through from our marketing.
So if a patient um fills in acontact form on our website, if
they fill in one of our Googleads, then it'll come up as a
(14:48):
lead and then we contact thepatient.
And so the new patientcoordinators are trained almost
like TCOs, but purely on thephone, and they then will talk
to the patient about what theywant so that they're not coming
in for a wasted appointment aswell.
So it's almost like apre-screening before the CTCO.
Some patients are happy just tohave a free TCO consultation.
(15:08):
Some patients want to have itall, so they'll see TCO and
dentist and pay for it.
But it's on the MPC to collectthe deposit and pre-inform
patient about what the processis and what's going on.
Dr James (15:21):
Right, okay, awesome, awesome, awesome.
Are you a big believer inscripts for those roles?
Dr Amit (15:27):
We do have scripts but I think when it comes across
natural from some of thetelephone staff then it comes
better.
But initially when they trainwith us they have a script and
then as they get better at theirown job, they know what they're
doing.
Then it becomes a bit morenatural.
Yeah, but I think these scriptsand key keywords is important
(15:48):
for all of them all right, seemsreasonable.
Dr James (15:51):
Okay, cool.
So the tco is a revelation.
And once you got the tco in andonce you got that fully
embedded into your business andworking really well, what do you
think was the next step thatallowed your business to
flourish even more in theprofitability front?
Dr Amit (16:05):
the associates, having having associates that just are
phenomenal at what they doclinically but also in
communication as well.
Um, we've hired some associates.
Um, I mean, you know, all ourassociates are amazing and they
work hard, but they all are partof our brand and our game and
(16:25):
they understand what we're about.
Um, they all personally getmentored by me and my wife.
So, depending on where they arein their clinical journey, some
want to go down the surgicalroute and do more comprehensive
full mouth rehab, so they that'swhere I will mentor them.
And some just want to docosmetic dentistry, and so
(16:45):
that's where my wife will mentorthem in Invisalign and
composite bonding and then aftera couple of years or so,
they're on their own.
We openly train everyone insedation, so most of our
associates are trained in eitherIV or inhalation sedation,
because it just adds to thepatient journey.
(17:07):
If you can offer all yourtreatments under sedation for
anxious patients, it just opensup a whole different pathway for
you as a patient and as adentist.
So, yeah, I think we'veprobably got the most
sedation-trained people in apractice in the country.
I'm pretty, yeah, but yeah,might be wrong there we are.
Dr James (17:29):
Well, if you're training every single person, I
think you're probably in with agood shot, but it sounds a bit,
you know, in so far as havingthe most okay, cool, awesome.
So tco, npc, that side ofthings, and then obviously the
associates themselves.
Here's what I'm alwaysinterested to learn, because,
again, I geek out on this stuffmassively specifically how
(17:50):
things are structured in thesurgery and, in terms of the
diary, any hints and tips onthat front.
Zoning is a popular one, sothat's an example.
Is that something that you door anything along those lines?
Dr Amit (18:01):
um, so what I'll say, I'll say is that, um, yeah, so
it's tco, uh, associate.
And then the critical part ofall of this for a business of
our size is our managers.
Um, and the managers.
You know, we've got twomanagers and they're both ahead
of the game.
They always are.
They're like two brains of mein the practice, every day,
(18:22):
sorting things out, managing thediary, managing the tco is, you
know, my, my role and my wife'srole is mainly to look after
the associates in their clinicaljourneys.
It's the managers are all tomake sure the marketing's done,
the tcos are well trained, thenpcs are well trained, the
service patients are getting,and that all is combined, um, in
terms of the diary management,that is all set by the managers
(18:47):
and they, they, rather thanletting it be in clinician led,
it is pretty much based on MPCsand TCOs, because we're about
giving the patient the easiestroute to having treatment.
You know, whereas when you haveset rules for different
different clinicians, it's verydifficult to have different
(19:08):
rules for different cliniciansin different diaries when you're
as big as you know.
You know, I think we've got 35clinicians at work with us.
Um, so if all 35 had their ownlist of things that they wanted.
It just wouldn't work.
So you know, we have set rulesum.
Yes, we do have some cliniciansthat just do specific
treatments, so that's almostlike zoning um.
(19:28):
And then some cliniciansbecause we are, one of our
practices is still nhs, so someof those clinicians will have
private days and nhs days andthat's clearly marked um.
But we don't really zone it assuch, as this is consultation
clinic, this is treatment clinic.
We're quite open with that okay, cool.
Dr James (19:46):
yeah, just interested to know.
Okay, top stuff, so we'vecovered the fundamentals, or
would you say that there'sanything more in there that you
feel is really there's loadsmore?
There's loads more, james, butyou know how much?
How much time do we have?
Well, I thought that might bethe answer.
Yeah, good stuff, good stuff,okay cool.
So let me see, we're about 20,30 minutes into this podcast, so
(20:08):
yeah, we got I feel like thosewere the things that were most
seminal insofar as taking thebusiness from where it was to
(20:29):
where it is.
Anything else you'd like tochuck in there, because we've
still got a good little bit oftime today and we want to make
as much value for the listenersas possible.
Dr Amit (20:40):
I think, just the overall workflow for a patient,
specifically for implants.
It's important that withimplants it's a very clinical
procedure.
It's unlike invisalign that youknow you can have consistency
in the workflows.
With implants you have to havea good workflow but it needs to
be robust enough that you canhave time to plan um.
(21:01):
And so our workflows forinvisalign and implants are
completely different and incontrast with each other, but
they both work really well forthe treatment.
That is so, I think, for a lotof practices they try and just
have one workflow for everysingle treatment um.
But what I'd say is that youneed to be more specific in what
you want your patient to have.
Um.
(21:22):
With implants, patient need abit more time to think about
whether they're going to goahead.
The spending significantlyamounts more money.
They need time to raise thatfinances and the finance that
they may get they can only getsome of it approved.
So this is all things that withthe Invisalign patient you can
do all on the day.
They can do the consultation,you can get the finance approved
(21:44):
on the day and everything's setup and sorted.
But with implant patients youjust need to have a bit more of
a robust system that there's abit more of a follow-up with
your implant patients, becausesome of them may not be ready
for the journey with you, butwithin a couple of months' time
they could be.
But if you're not calling them,then they've forgotten about
(22:05):
you or they're at another clinicor you know they'll delay it
for another year.
So it's very important that youare getting your implant
consultations done, getting yourtreatment letters out and
chasing them up, you know.
Just don't expect the patientsjust to come and call when
they're ready.
Dr James (22:22):
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and what is?
And we thought well, with goinginto as much detail as you're
you're happy to, what is yourpolicy or protocol on that?
Is it like one week, uh, followup on one month follow up?
Dr Amit (22:37):
I don't know, two months follow up, something like
that, as in they're set pointsthat you're getting back to them
or reminding them yeah, so atthe point for implants, at the
point when the treatment lettersent out out, we will call them
on the day we send it out to saywe've sent the treatment letter
.
Now, most of the time some ofthese patients would have
already booked in for surgery,so that's already set in stone,
(23:00):
but it's the patients thathaven't committed to treatment
that they will then get a phonecall or an email at seven days,
usually a week, and then a month, and then we chase it up, then
monthly, until they tell us notto.
Dr James (23:13):
Oh, okay, okay, fair enough.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool,and you find that that's quite
effective, then Definitely,definitely for implant patients,
because their journeys take alot longer.
And do you have any?
Again going back to the datathing, no-transcript.
(23:45):
Yeah, so from consultation tobooking surgery initially is
about is about 60 to 70.
Oh, that's really high then.
Dr Amit (23:53):
So really high, but that's for a paid consult, um.
But then that number willincrease over a year period to
about 75 to 80.
So not, it's not a massive jump, but these are big cases, you
know.
An invisalign case is three anda half to four and a half grand
on average, but implant casescan be in excess of 20, 30 grand
(24:13):
.
So you know you're chasing forthat extra 10 percent.
There's big revenue there, youknow.
And also some patients, like Isaid, they just need to raise
the finances.
They know what the plan is,they're just figuring out how
they're going to raise thatmoney.
Dr James (24:27):
But if you're not in contact with them then you'll
just never have the opportunity60% is a really good treatment
plan acceptance rate for,especially for treatment plans
that are grossing that amount ofmoney.
And then, yeah, as you said,that little 10, 15% that comes
after that.
That, because the treatmentplans are so valuable, it makes
(24:50):
it make sense from a commercialperspective to follow up the way
that you're doing yeah, yeah,exactly I like that.
Okay awesome, okay cool.
We'll listen to some flippinggems that we've had here today.
Dr Amit (25:02):
I'm curious how many days a week are you in?
Clinic at the minute.
Um, I'm probably down to half aday, half a day in clinic oh
really interesting half a day inclinic, but then I'm doing two
to three days mentoring theother associates oh, yeah,
because I'm clinical but my ownpatients have got half a day
worth a week at the moment andthe rest of the week is is
(25:25):
either management meetings ormentoring implants or sedation
mainly.
Dr James (25:30):
Well, that's the point of leverage in your business,
isn't it?
You know, you train thesepeople and then they're going to
, through your knowledge andwisdom.
They're going to be able tocontinuously.
The idea is that they'llcontinuously make profits and,
of course, you know, be able toprovide a better quality of
service to the patient andeverything on that front.
Dr Amit (25:51):
Exactly.
If you enable your own dentistin your practice to be able to
treat an implant like you andthey have the skills to then you
will find that the number ofimplants you do as a practice
will increase, the number oftreatments you do as increases.
If you try and just have thatone guy that's doing everything
and asking every associate torefer to you, we've found it
(26:12):
doesn't work.
Associates will generally offerpatients what they can do on
average.
But if you give them theammunition to say, yeah, I know
how to do an implant, or atleast plan for an implant, but
I'll restore it.
Dr James (26:24):
or you know, I know how to do ortho, suddenly the
patients are being treatmentplanned very comprehensively,
which means your uptake oftreatment, your overall
treatment plans, are much higherwell, you know what, on that
front, what I feel a lot ofbusiness owners struggle with is
(26:45):
accepting as it is in takingthe hit in terms of the income
front on the on the front endfor that huge gain of
productivity on the back end.
Because how does that look?
Initially, you have toliterally drop some clinical
days, which is going to meanless money in the here and now,
but very quickly that'll becoming back into your hand
because you've trained theseother people up and through the
(27:05):
principle of leverage.
What it will mean is thatthey're able to implement what
you've taught them not just, notjust in one surgery, but
perhaps in several surgeries,which ultimately makes sense,
but it's called building yourlever, so to speak.
You have to take some time outto build a lever, make it bigger
in order to get more leverage,and then, when you come along
and activate the lever, wellthen what it means at that point
(27:26):
is that you have a lot moreoutput.
But that doesn't start unlessyou take some time out in order
to construct it in the firstplace, which usually means that
you have to take an upfront hit.
Would you agree with me?
I've seen that personally.
Dr Amit (27:38):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, when I was fullyclinical a few years ago,
working five days, yes, mypersonal growth was very high
and, you know, was doing a lot,but actually the practice,
profitability and turnoverincreased when I dropped days
and started to work on thebusiness, started to have
meetings with the manager sothey were more productive and
(27:58):
then started to focus ontraining associates.
Practice just grew, grew, grewand it grows now without me
doing anything, because theseguys are now all trained to do
all of these differenttreatments.
So, yeah, you build, you builda team and then the team will
grow for you amazing, cool.
Dr James (28:16):
And did you notice there was like a little tiny
period at the very start wherethere was a somewhat of a hit on
the revenue front yeah,definitely, profitability
dropped significantly in theyear or two, but turnover
turnover went up.
Dr Amit (28:27):
You know, because, as a principle, your profit levels
are generally what you take home, you know.
But if you're relying onassociates which we're not,
because we still me and my wife,do a bit, but when you're
trying to rely on associates,you need to gross and turnover
significantly more to replaceyour own income.
Gross and turnoversignificantly more to replace
(28:51):
your own income.
Otherwise, you know, I stillthink that you'd be more
profitable, as we would be moreprofitable, if I'm being honest,
as a practice, if I was fivedays clinical, because that's
the income that I'll be keeping.
Um, but this just enables us togrow other people, grow the
business, spend more time with.
You know.
Meanwhile I've got threechildren.
It gives us a better work-lifebalance.
So it's not always about profit, um, it's about work-life
(29:12):
balance yeah, two things.
Dr James (29:16):
It's a mindset thing, I feel as well, the mindset
being, uh, you know, it's very,it's so much it's so it's so
easy to get caught up andworking in the business rather
than working on the business,because it feels so much more
productive in the here and now.
But bigger picture, if you takea step back and build that lever
that we spoke about earlier,then what it will mean is it's
better in the long run, but themindset part of it is being able
(29:38):
to understand that and takethat hit hit a little bit at the
start.
And then the second thing isit's all about enjoyment as well
.
You know, there's a lot ofdentists out there who just want
to do four days a week clinical, five days a week clinical six,
six or seven, however thatlooks, and maybe there's lots
who don't necessarily enjoy that.
So it's about designing abusiness.
Here's here's what someone saidto me once which I thought was
(30:01):
really cool if you sit down andwrite out what your perfect life
would look like and then youliterally design your business
around that, so it gives youyour perfect life rather than
the other way around.
Very powerful, because you cantotally do that yeah, exactly, I
agree with you love that.
All right, cool, I'm coming upto the 40 minute mark.
(30:24):
I like to keep these podcastspowerful, punching, impactful
from your experience in otherdental practices.
If you can go into other dentalpractices and wave a magic wand
whenever it comes toprofitability and pick three of
the biggest areas forimprovement, or three of the
biggest things that you feelmost dentists could be doing
better when it comes toenhancing their numbers and
(30:45):
enhancing the turnover of theirbusiness, what would you say?
Those things are high level tco.
Dr Amit (30:52):
Tco number one and number two is having um
associates well trained ineverything, not just one
treatment, so that they cantreatment plan.
You know, you're not, you'relooking at the overall treatment
, not just the single treatment.
And having exceptional managers.
I think those three things TCOassociates, managers, that's it.
(31:13):
That's the you know, and Iguess the principal as well.
But I'm biased, aren't I?
Dr James (31:20):
so Fair enough, fair enough, okay, cool.
Well, listen, you've beenreally generous with your
knowledge today.
I know that we were talkingoff-cameras beforehand.
You've recently launched anacademy which helps dentists
make their practice moreprofitable.
Am I right in saying that?
Dr Amit (31:35):
yeah, so we um in the new squat site in stoke-on-trent
.
We've got um bespoke academyset up um with seminar rooms uh
ready to go.
We've done our first umclinical course, which is
composite bonding, with uh drcal uh prajapat, who um did a
life skills day with a livepatient um and had a number of
(31:58):
delegates um.
We've got a couple of othernursing courses coming up in
january and then I'm doing acourse on being a productive
implantologist in February.
Saturday the 2nd, which isreally all about the implant
journey for a patient and forthe clinician.
On that day we talk about it'sme and one of my colleagues,
(32:22):
stephen Anderson, who both havevery different implant journeys.
Both are implant early dentistsand both as practices do high
number of implants.
We'll talk to you about what wewish we'd known 10 years ago to
fast-track your implant careers, and that's the goal of that
day.
Dr James (32:37):
Love that and do you help with implementation, as
well as in showing how toimplement that into the practice
of the delegates that will beattending?
Dr Amit (32:47):
Yeah, so the goal of the actual day is for each
person to walk away with a plantailored towards what they need
to do for their practices,because not everyone's implant
journey and the way they doimplants is the same.
But there's certain things thatyou know, we know would work
for each person, and somepractices don't have the room
for a TCA.
Some practices don't havescanners for a TCA.
Some practices don't havescanners.
(33:08):
You know so what are they doing, but there's certain things
that you can still take awayfrom the course that will say
that will help you increase yourimplant numbers Amazing.
Dr James (33:17):
Cool.
Well, listen, amit.
Thank you so much for your timetoday and for coming on the
Dentist who Invests podcast.
This can't be the last one thatwe do.
We need to do another onebecause I reckon there's at
least well many more episodes ofuh knowledge in that head.
So it's our, it's our duty togo out there and share it with
(33:38):
the dental world.
So I'm looking forward to thosealready in the meantime being
smashed and happy along, as Isay thank you for having me.
My absolute pleasure, my.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the
Dempsey Invest Podcast.
This is an episode I've beenmeaning to do for absolutely
ages with Dr Amit Jilka, becauseI was flipping, blown away when
I met Amit for the very firsttime in real life, at a live day
, at a course, at a program.
I was blown away by hisknowledge and just how much he
(00:23):
knows about making implantsprofitable and also about making
Invisalign profitable as well.
And big clue, big, big hint,big tip, spoiler alert it starts
with being incredibly efficientand giving loads of value to
our patients.
But more on that in just aminute.
First of all, amit, how are you?
Dr Amit (00:41):
I'm good, thank you.
Dr James (00:44):
Wunderbar, wunderbar.
So, Amit, there'll be somepeople listening to this who've
met you and some people who haveyet to meet you.
If we could have a little bitof an intro, what that would
mean is that everybody could getto know you a little bit and
what you're about.
Dr Amit (00:58):
Yeah.
So yeah, I'm Amit Jhoka.
I graduated in Sheffield,bought a practice a couple of
years, just straight out ofuniversity in 2012.
It was a one surgery practicecalled Abbey House Dental and we
built it all the way up tothree practices on one road and
(01:18):
now have 13 surgeries across thethree sites, Recently launched
a new practice in Stoke-on-trentsquat practice and have
recently also launched ouracademy as well abbey house
dental, the academy.
So yeah, a lot going on um andI think what we're well known
for is um hitting high implantnumbers and hitting high
(01:41):
invisalign numbers um, and alsothe value that we give patients
and the value we give to ourassociates.
We feel like we give a really,really good service to our
associates, which we think isvery important.
Dr James (01:53):
Love that and it absolutely is.
And do you know what?
You know it in that very firstpractice that you mentioned,
abbey House, wasn't it?
Dr Amit (01:59):
Yeah.
Dr James (02:00):
Yeah, I know we were talking a little bit off camera
beforehand and you were sayingthere's a little bit of a story
there when it comes to how youtook the business from where it
was to where it is.
So do you know what?
We didn't actually get thechance to cover that, you and I,
when we were talking justbeforehand.
What a beautiful opportunity tocover it.
Right now Everybody's listening, because what that would mean
(02:20):
is that they can get a realunderstanding of just how well
you've done on that front.
Dr Amit (02:24):
That would mean is that they can get a real
understanding of just how wellyou've done on that front.
Yeah so, um, yeah so Igraduated in 2008 um and did max
facts for a year, had a passionthat I wanted to learn implants
and do implants, but alsowanted to own a practice
straight away.
And, oh yeah, looked at anumber of practices and at the
time we you know, I was livingin birmingham and staffordshire,
(02:48):
wasn't too far saw a smalllittle practice, didn't want to
take too much risk.
It was, it was a one surgerypractice with a small hygiene
room, so like one and a halfsurgeries and thought perfect,
ideal for me and my wife the twoof us to to kind of move in.
So 2012 we bought the practiceum and in those days it was
actually very, verystraightforward to get loans um,
(03:11):
considering what we had to putum.
The turnover practice at thetime was about 300k and so it's
a very small practice.
Had a nhs contract as well andwe had to.
We pretty much got the um afull loan for it, 100 loan um
from the bank because you know,straight out of max fax didn't
(03:34):
have much income, didn't havemuch money behind me, and it was
just, uh, yeah, the banks werejust willing to lend in those
days.
Very different story now.
Um, everyone being so cautious,especially, you know, when we
get to it, talking about the,the funding for the squat
practice recently was a very,very difficult um, but yeah, so
(03:55):
we, you know, bought thepractice and then 2012 did the
start.
My implant training with uh, rawcollege surgeons and um
continued to grow the implantside, which grew the practice
significantly.
Um, and then I think one of thecritical points was when my
wife really got into invisalignand we joined the my smart
(04:17):
network with sandeep kumar umand from that and training our
tcos and really pushing thedigital side of dentistry, we
grew from two surgeries to fivesurgeries, to 13 surgeries and
now, including the new site, youknow we've got 18 chairs now
and you know, doing significantnumbers of both of those
(04:41):
treatments as well as all theother parts of dentistry as a
practice.
We're quite well known forsedation as well.
We do a lot of sedation and geta lot of referrals for that.
So we've kind of grown ourdentistry on offering patients
the full plethora of dentistryand not just specific treatments
.
Dr James (05:00):
Gotcha.
Okay.
So one of the means that youachieved that enhancement in
numbers was by enhancing thescope of treatment.
Dr Amit (05:11):
Exactly, yeah, definitely Wonderful, okay.
Dr James (05:14):
And then, as well as that, within those different
modalities of treatment.
It was also about thinking,okay, how can we be efficient?
Can we be efficient as in, howcan we do a really good job for
the patient, first and foremost,but also be so efficient such
that we can provide a hugenumber of implants every single
year and a huge number ofInvisalign treatments every
(05:36):
single year?
Do you have any numbers andstats on those, just so
everybody can get a little bitof a feel for where you're at?
Dr Amit (05:41):
yeah, so we're doing about, in terms of ortho cases,
we're doing 400 plus cases umand in terms of implant numbers,
we're hitting about 550 600 ayear um at the moment I see,
okay, and is that across all the13 surgeries?
Dr James (05:57):
yeah, yeah, so that's across the whole group.
Brilliant, okay, cool, cool,cool, cool, cool, all right,
cool.
So just to go back to the storywe were talking a second ago,
the practice started out 300kturnover 300k turnover yeah
right got you and do you knowwhat that's interesting and how
many that was on two surgeriestwo, yeah well, I'd say one.
Dr Amit (06:16):
One surgery in a hygiene tiny little room, which
it was, which, yeah, we quicklygot changed amazing and you know
what.
Dr James (06:23):
There'll be a lot of people who maybe are in that
boat right now and they'll bethinking to themselves just what
do I do to hit the next levelof profitability?
What were the first few thingsthat you changed or enhanced to
begin to see an increase inrevenue in the business?
Apart from, apart from thescope of treatment we know that
that's, that's relevant whatwere the things that we did
within the, the surgery, as wellas that?
Dr Amit (06:46):
so, yeah, so we, we um built more surgeries.
Okay, simple, but if you don'thave enough surgeries, you can't
see enough patients.
And we train, we got therapistsin and therapists um increase
the scope of treatments we cando, increase the capacity of
what we could do, and we really.
(07:08):
What really made us fly was thewhole implementation of the TCO
and having the TCO as the firstpatient contact.
Once that patient sees the TCO,conversion rates went up.
Having a dedicated room for theTCOs and scanners for the TCOs,
I think, just changes the wholepractice, which means you as a
clinician can start becomingreally, really efficient in what
(07:31):
you're doing, but also, moreimportantly, the patient gets a
significantly better experienceof the practice.
Dr James (07:41):
You know what?
I saw a poll the other week onFacebook I can't remember what
Facebook group it was on and thepoll was do you have a TCO, yes
or no?
And there's still.
Everybody talks, everybodyraves about TCOs.
Nowadays.
There's still 60% of dentalpractices who don't have TCOs,
which I thought was fascinating.
Dr Amit (08:00):
Yeah, it's interesting and I think when some practice
say they've got a TCO, they'renot really TCOs, they're just
they're really NPCs.
You know, the new patient isusually just on the phone and
chatting to people.
What we see as a TCO is apatient facing almost a
(08:29):
clinician that's scanning andgoing through treatments and
options, with the patientdiscussing it being part of the
whole patient journey, just asmuch as the actual dentist is.
Dr James (08:34):
Um, can I just say npc nice video game reference there
.
I really enjoyed that.
For anybody for anybody who'snot necessarily a gamer npc
means non-playable characters,so so they're usually some sort
of character in the backgroundthat the main protagonist
doesn't really interact with orjust sees in the periphery.
So you definitely don't wantyour TCO to be that.
(08:54):
You want them to be aprotagonist, you want them to be
involved in the practice.
Dr Amit (08:57):
I think that works well .
Yeah, they're either NPCs orfrom a new patient coordinator,
or they're non-playablecharacters.
They're not actually in thegame either.
Dr James (09:04):
So love that.
I love that awesome.
So what aspects of the tco andtheir involvement in your
surgery did you notice were themost beneficial, or what?
What changes did you make in sofar as what, uh, what, what,
what, what, what.
What roles the tco fulfill foryou, or how did you implement
them into your practice?
Dr Amit (09:24):
that's a better question and so they literally
see the patient first up.
So in terms of the consultation, they don't see the dentist,
they see the TCO first, have amuch more longer time to build
rapport and chat to the patientand discuss treatment options
and what they want before theygo in to see the dentist for the
(09:47):
consultation, for the clinicalpart.
But prior to seeing theclinician, the TCO is getting
the scan done, the photos done,discussing.
You know how finance works aswell, because a lot of patients
do go for finance and so youknow almost taking all of the
stress out of dentistry awayfrom them, but also letting the
patient know what we do.
(10:07):
Now a lot of dentists just donot come across to a patient
about all the skill sets thatthey have.
So you'll do a consultation,but that patient doesn't really
know that.
You can offer implants, you cando Invisalign, you can do
whitening, you can do all ofthese things unless there's been
a trigger word that the patientsaid and you're discussing it.
What the TCO enables you to dois they are openly discussing
(10:30):
what the practice offers.
So the minute they come in foryour consultation, tco is like
patient wants whitening, he'snervous, possibly needs sedation
, he's considering teethstraightening.
And already your consultationis so much more thorough and
more detailed and more direct towhat the patient wants that
your conversion rates would justskyrocket.
Dr James (10:53):
That's cool as hell.
And how long are those TCOappointments?
How is that structured?
Dr Amit (10:59):
So they're 45 minutes oh they're good solar
appointments yeah good chunk forIn invisalign and implants and
they're half an hour if they'rejust a new patient gotcha and do
you pay?
Dr James (11:10):
do they?
Do you charge for that?
Uh the refundable deposit I seeyeah and otherwise, it
contributes towards thetreatment yeah, so.
Dr Amit (11:20):
But if they want to see the dentist so some patients
will pay then it's theexamination and consultation.
At that point there's a filterso that patients can come in
without any stress and if theydon't want to go ahead, it's not
wasting the dentist's time.
But if they do want to go ahead, they're paying and they're
committed.
(11:40):
You know so.
You know, dentists prefer itthat way.
Our associates prefer it thatway that they're actually seeing
patients that are already readyto go awesome and you strike me
as someone who measures thingsin your business.
Dr James (11:53):
Am I right in saying that?
Yeah, yeah, oh, I love that,mate, I could, just I could.
I knew that was coming, whichis great, and the reason I knew
that is because anybody who'sreally profitable measures
things.
You, you master what youmeasure.
So I'm interested to know sotreatment plan acceptance before
you had your TCO, treatmentplan acceptance rate as in
percentage versus treatment planacceptance rate after?
(12:15):
Do you have any stats on?
Dr Amit (12:17):
those, not any specific stats, but I would say that
when they see the TCO the uptakeof treatment is much greater,
especially for new patients.
So a new patient that's comingto just see a dentist, they will
have treatment plans that aremuch lower in value total value
than if a patient's in the TCO.
(12:37):
Then the dentist, which to meis phenomenal, because that
shows to me that sometimes somedentists are not consistently
good at talking about everything, um, and you know what the tco
does for a dental practice, andpractice principle is it gives
consistency to the conversionprocess that patients are being
(13:00):
told everything and just becausethey're saying you know this
dentist that can only offerinvisalign, you know that means
that dentist is only going to betalking about that one
treatment, um, whereas a tcrwill talk about everything, um,
which again gives youconsistency, and definitely some
associates um are really goodat that process themselves.
(13:21):
Um, and some people reallystruggle with talking about
money and all the differenttreatments, and so this almost
just acts as almost like asignboard for you love it.
Dr James (13:32):
So it's not only treatment plan acceptance
percentage, it's also treatmentplan value.
Dr Amit (13:36):
Yeah yeah, exactly big time.
Dr James (13:39):
Awesome, okay, cool.
And just one more thing,because I'm geeking out on this
right now, because I find thisfascinating as well deal flow
like whenever.
Whenever there's an inquiry atthe practice, do they is there
any sort of filter system atthat point?
Uh, or just does everybody whoinquires at the practice do?
Dr Amit (13:55):
they pretty much go, uh , straight through to the tco
and that's the primary so, yes,um, you know, we've got um a
couple of and we've got a coupleof people on telephone
reception.
We've got a call center thatgets all the calls coming in,
and then we have a number ofNPCs, new patient coordinators.
Dr James (14:16):
Oh sorry, when you said NPC earlier, I literally
thought you meant non-playablecharacters.
I thought that was a joke.
I thought that was a joke.
Dr Amit (14:24):
It kind of worked as a joke.
You did well with thatcharacters.
I thought that was a joke.
I thought it kind of worked asa joke.
You did well with that.
I thought that was a joke yes,anyway, I've actually basically
handle new patient inquiries, um, and any inquiries that come
through from our marketing.
So if a patient um fills in acontact form on our website, if
they fill in one of our Googleads, then it'll come up as a
(14:48):
lead and then we contact thepatient.
And so the new patientcoordinators are trained almost
like TCOs, but purely on thephone, and they then will talk
to the patient about what theywant so that they're not coming
in for a wasted appointment aswell.
So it's almost like apre-screening before the CTCO.
Some patients are happy just tohave a free TCO consultation.
(15:08):
Some patients want to have itall, so they'll see TCO and
dentist and pay for it.
But it's on the MPC to collectthe deposit and pre-inform
patient about what the processis and what's going on.
Dr James (15:21):
Right, okay, awesome, awesome, awesome.
Are you a big believer inscripts for those roles?
Dr Amit (15:27):
We do have scripts but I think when it comes across
natural from some of thetelephone staff then it comes
better.
But initially when they trainwith us they have a script and
then as they get better at theirown job, they know what they're
doing.
Then it becomes a bit morenatural.
Yeah, but I think these scriptsand key keywords is important
(15:48):
for all of them all right, seemsreasonable.
Dr James (15:51):
Okay, cool.
So the tco is a revelation.
And once you got the tco in andonce you got that fully
embedded into your business andworking really well, what do you
think was the next step thatallowed your business to
flourish even more in theprofitability front?
Dr Amit (16:05):
the associates, having having associates that just are
phenomenal at what they doclinically but also in
communication as well.
Um, we've hired some associates.
Um, I mean, you know, all ourassociates are amazing and they
work hard, but they all are partof our brand and our game and
(16:25):
they understand what we're about.
Um, they all personally getmentored by me and my wife.
So, depending on where they arein their clinical journey, some
want to go down the surgicalroute and do more comprehensive
full mouth rehab, so they that'swhere I will mentor them.
And some just want to docosmetic dentistry, and so
(16:45):
that's where my wife will mentorthem in Invisalign and
composite bonding and then aftera couple of years or so,
they're on their own.
We openly train everyone insedation, so most of our
associates are trained in eitherIV or inhalation sedation,
because it just adds to thepatient journey.
(17:07):
If you can offer all yourtreatments under sedation for
anxious patients, it just opensup a whole different pathway for
you as a patient and as adentist.
So, yeah, I think we'veprobably got the most
sedation-trained people in apractice in the country.
I'm pretty, yeah, but yeah,might be wrong there we are.
Dr James (17:29):
Well, if you're training every single person, I
think you're probably in with agood shot, but it sounds a bit,
you know, in so far as havingthe most okay, cool, awesome.
So tco, npc, that side ofthings, and then obviously the
associates themselves.
Here's what I'm alwaysinterested to learn, because,
again, I geek out on this stuffmassively specifically how
(17:50):
things are structured in thesurgery and, in terms of the
diary, any hints and tips onthat front.
Zoning is a popular one, sothat's an example.
Is that something that you door anything along those lines?
Dr Amit (18:01):
um, so what I'll say, I'll say is that, um, yeah, so
it's tco, uh, associate.
And then the critical part ofall of this for a business of
our size is our managers.
Um, and the managers.
You know, we've got twomanagers and they're both ahead
of the game.
They always are.
They're like two brains of mein the practice, every day,
(18:22):
sorting things out, managing thediary, managing the tco is, you
know, my, my role and my wife'srole is mainly to look after
the associates in their clinicaljourneys.
It's the managers are all tomake sure the marketing's done,
the tcos are well trained, thenpcs are well trained, the
service patients are getting,and that all is combined, um, in
terms of the diary management,that is all set by the managers
(18:47):
and they, they, rather thanletting it be in clinician led,
it is pretty much based on MPCsand TCOs, because we're about
giving the patient the easiestroute to having treatment.
You know, whereas when you haveset rules for different
different clinicians, it's verydifficult to have different
(19:08):
rules for different cliniciansin different diaries when you're
as big as you know.
You know, I think we've got 35clinicians at work with us.
Um, so if all 35 had their ownlist of things that they wanted.
It just wouldn't work.
So you know, we have set rulesum.
Yes, we do have some cliniciansthat just do specific
treatments, so that's almostlike zoning um.
(19:28):
And then some cliniciansbecause we are, one of our
practices is still nhs, so someof those clinicians will have
private days and nhs days andthat's clearly marked um.
But we don't really zone it assuch, as this is consultation
clinic, this is treatment clinic.
We're quite open with that okay, cool.
Dr James (19:46):
yeah, just interested to know.
Okay, top stuff, so we'vecovered the fundamentals, or
would you say that there'sanything more in there that you
feel is really there's loadsmore?
There's loads more, james, butyou know how much?
How much time do we have?
Well, I thought that might bethe answer.
Yeah, good stuff, good stuff,okay cool.
So let me see, we're about 20,30 minutes into this podcast, so
(20:08):
yeah, we got I feel like thosewere the things that were most
seminal insofar as taking thebusiness from where it was to
(20:29):
where it is.
Anything else you'd like tochuck in there, because we've
still got a good little bit oftime today and we want to make
as much value for the listenersas possible.
Dr Amit (20:40):
I think, just the overall workflow for a patient,
specifically for implants.
It's important that withimplants it's a very clinical
procedure.
It's unlike invisalign that youknow you can have consistency
in the workflows.
With implants you have to havea good workflow but it needs to
be robust enough that you canhave time to plan um.
(21:01):
And so our workflows forinvisalign and implants are
completely different and incontrast with each other, but
they both work really well forthe treatment.
That is so, I think, for a lotof practices they try and just
have one workflow for everysingle treatment um.
But what I'd say is that youneed to be more specific in what
you want your patient to have.
Um.
(21:22):
With implants, patient need abit more time to think about
whether they're going to goahead.
The spending significantlyamounts more money.
They need time to raise thatfinances and the finance that
they may get they can only getsome of it approved.
So this is all things that withthe Invisalign patient you can
do all on the day.
They can do the consultation,you can get the finance approved
(21:44):
on the day and everything's setup and sorted.
But with implant patients youjust need to have a bit more of
a robust system that there's abit more of a follow-up with
your implant patients, becausesome of them may not be ready
for the journey with you, butwithin a couple of months' time
they could be.
But if you're not calling them,then they've forgotten about
(22:05):
you or they're at another clinicor you know they'll delay it
for another year.
So it's very important that youare getting your implant
consultations done, getting yourtreatment letters out and
chasing them up, you know.
Just don't expect the patientsjust to come and call when
they're ready.
Dr James (22:22):
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and what is?
And we thought well, with goinginto as much detail as you're
you're happy to, what is yourpolicy or protocol on that?
Is it like one week, uh, followup on one month follow up?
Dr Amit (22:37):
I don't know, two months follow up, something like
that, as in they're set pointsthat you're getting back to them
or reminding them yeah, so atthe point for implants, at the
point when the treatment lettersent out out, we will call them
on the day we send it out to saywe've sent the treatment letter
.
Now, most of the time some ofthese patients would have
already booked in for surgery,so that's already set in stone,
(23:00):
but it's the patients thathaven't committed to treatment
that they will then get a phonecall or an email at seven days,
usually a week, and then a month, and then we chase it up, then
monthly, until they tell us notto.
Dr James (23:13):
Oh, okay, okay, fair enough.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool,and you find that that's quite
effective, then Definitely,definitely for implant patients,
because their journeys take alot longer.
And do you have any?
Again going back to the datathing, no-transcript.
(23:45):
Yeah, so from consultation tobooking surgery initially is
about is about 60 to 70.
Oh, that's really high then.
Dr Amit (23:53):
So really high, but that's for a paid consult, um.
But then that number willincrease over a year period to
about 75 to 80.
So not, it's not a massive jump, but these are big cases, you
know.
An invisalign case is three anda half to four and a half grand
on average, but implant casescan be in excess of 20, 30 grand
(24:13):
.
So you know you're chasing forthat extra 10 percent.
There's big revenue there, youknow.
And also some patients, like Isaid, they just need to raise
the finances.
They know what the plan is,they're just figuring out how
they're going to raise thatmoney.
Dr James (24:27):
But if you're not in contact with them then you'll
just never have the opportunity60% is a really good treatment
plan acceptance rate for,especially for treatment plans
that are grossing that amount ofmoney.
And then, yeah, as you said,that little 10, 15% that comes
after that.
That, because the treatmentplans are so valuable, it makes
(24:50):
it make sense from a commercialperspective to follow up the way
that you're doing yeah, yeah,exactly I like that.
Okay awesome, okay cool.
We'll listen to some flippinggems that we've had here today.
Dr Amit (25:02):
I'm curious how many days a week are you in?
Clinic at the minute.
Um, I'm probably down to half aday, half a day in clinic oh
really interesting half a day inclinic, but then I'm doing two
to three days mentoring theother associates oh, yeah,
because I'm clinical but my ownpatients have got half a day
worth a week at the moment andthe rest of the week is is
(25:25):
either management meetings ormentoring implants or sedation
mainly.
Dr James (25:30):
Well, that's the point of leverage in your business,
isn't it?
You know, you train thesepeople and then they're going to
, through your knowledge andwisdom.
They're going to be able tocontinuously.
The idea is that they'llcontinuously make profits and,
of course, you know, be able toprovide a better quality of
service to the patient andeverything on that front.
Dr Amit (25:51):
Exactly.
If you enable your own dentistin your practice to be able to
treat an implant like you andthey have the skills to then you
will find that the number ofimplants you do as a practice
will increase, the number oftreatments you do as increases.
If you try and just have thatone guy that's doing everything
and asking every associate torefer to you, we've found it
(26:12):
doesn't work.
Associates will generally offerpatients what they can do on
average.
But if you give them theammunition to say, yeah, I know
how to do an implant, or atleast plan for an implant, but
I'll restore it.
Dr James (26:24):
or you know, I know how to do ortho, suddenly the
patients are being treatmentplanned very comprehensively,
which means your uptake oftreatment, your overall
treatment plans, are much higherwell, you know what, on that
front, what I feel a lot ofbusiness owners struggle with is
(26:45):
accepting as it is in takingthe hit in terms of the income
front on the on the front endfor that huge gain of
productivity on the back end.
Because how does that look?
Initially, you have toliterally drop some clinical
days, which is going to meanless money in the here and now,
but very quickly that'll becoming back into your hand
because you've trained theseother people up and through the
(27:05):
principle of leverage.
What it will mean is thatthey're able to implement what
you've taught them not just, notjust in one surgery, but
perhaps in several surgeries,which ultimately makes sense,
but it's called building yourlever, so to speak.
You have to take some time outto build a lever, make it bigger
in order to get more leverage,and then, when you come along
and activate the lever, wellthen what it means at that point
(27:26):
is that you have a lot moreoutput.
But that doesn't start unlessyou take some time out in order
to construct it in the firstplace, which usually means that
you have to take an upfront hit.
Would you agree with me?
I've seen that personally.
Dr Amit (27:38):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, when I was fullyclinical a few years ago,
working five days, yes, mypersonal growth was very high
and, you know, was doing a lot,but actually the practice,
profitability and turnoverincreased when I dropped days
and started to work on thebusiness, started to have
meetings with the manager sothey were more productive and
(27:58):
then started to focus ontraining associates.
Practice just grew, grew, grewand it grows now without me
doing anything, because theseguys are now all trained to do
all of these differenttreatments.
So, yeah, you build, you builda team and then the team will
grow for you amazing, cool.
Dr James (28:16):
And did you notice there was like a little tiny
period at the very start wherethere was a somewhat of a hit on
the revenue front yeah,definitely, profitability
dropped significantly in theyear or two, but turnover
turnover went up.
Dr Amit (28:27):
You know, because, as a principle, your profit levels
are generally what you take home, you know.
But if you're relying onassociates which we're not,
because we still me and my wife,do a bit, but when you're
trying to rely on associates,you need to gross and turnover
significantly more to replaceyour own income.
Gross and turnoversignificantly more to replace
(28:51):
your own income.
Otherwise, you know, I stillthink that you'd be more
profitable, as we would be moreprofitable, if I'm being honest,
as a practice, if I was fivedays clinical, because that's
the income that I'll be keeping.
Um, but this just enables us togrow other people, grow the
business, spend more time with.
You know.
Meanwhile I've got threechildren.
It gives us a better work-lifebalance.
So it's not always about profit, um, it's about work-life
(29:12):
balance yeah, two things.
Dr James (29:16):
It's a mindset thing, I feel as well, the mindset
being, uh, you know, it's very,it's so much it's so it's so
easy to get caught up andworking in the business rather
than working on the business,because it feels so much more
productive in the here and now.
But bigger picture, if you takea step back and build that lever
that we spoke about earlier,then what it will mean is it's
better in the long run, but themindset part of it is being able
(29:38):
to understand that and takethat hit hit a little bit at the
start.
And then the second thing isit's all about enjoyment as well
.
You know, there's a lot ofdentists out there who just want
to do four days a week clinical, five days a week clinical six,
six or seven, however thatlooks, and maybe there's lots
who don't necessarily enjoy that.
So it's about designing abusiness.
Here's here's what someone saidto me once which I thought was
(30:01):
really cool if you sit down andwrite out what your perfect life
would look like and then youliterally design your business
around that, so it gives youyour perfect life rather than
the other way around.
Very powerful, because you cantotally do that yeah, exactly, I
agree with you love that.
All right, cool, I'm coming upto the 40 minute mark.
(30:24):
I like to keep these podcastspowerful, punching, impactful
from your experience in otherdental practices.
If you can go into other dentalpractices and wave a magic wand
whenever it comes toprofitability and pick three of
the biggest areas forimprovement, or three of the
biggest things that you feelmost dentists could be doing
better when it comes toenhancing their numbers and
(30:45):
enhancing the turnover of theirbusiness, what would you say?
Those things are high level tco.
Dr Amit (30:52):
Tco number one and number two is having um
associates well trained ineverything, not just one
treatment, so that they cantreatment plan.
You know, you're not, you'relooking at the overall treatment
, not just the single treatment.
And having exceptional managers.
I think those three things TCOassociates, managers, that's it.
(31:13):
That's the you know, and Iguess the principal as well.
But I'm biased, aren't I?
Dr James (31:20):
so Fair enough, fair enough, okay, cool.
Well, listen, you've beenreally generous with your
knowledge today.
I know that we were talkingoff-cameras beforehand.
You've recently launched anacademy which helps dentists
make their practice moreprofitable.
Am I right in saying that?
Dr Amit (31:35):
yeah, so we um in the new squat site in stoke-on-trent
.
We've got um bespoke academyset up um with seminar rooms uh
ready to go.
We've done our first umclinical course, which is
composite bonding, with uh drcal uh prajapat, who um did a
life skills day with a livepatient um and had a number of
(31:58):
delegates um.
We've got a couple of othernursing courses coming up in
january and then I'm doing acourse on being a productive
implantologist in February.
Saturday the 2nd, which isreally all about the implant
journey for a patient and forthe clinician.
On that day we talk about it'sme and one of my colleagues,
(32:22):
stephen Anderson, who both havevery different implant journeys.
Both are implant early dentistsand both as practices do high
number of implants.
We'll talk to you about what wewish we'd known 10 years ago to
fast-track your implant careers, and that's the goal of that
day.
Dr James (32:37):
Love that and do you help with implementation, as
well as in showing how toimplement that into the practice
of the delegates that will beattending?
Dr Amit (32:47):
Yeah, so the goal of the actual day is for each
person to walk away with a plantailored towards what they need
to do for their practices,because not everyone's implant
journey and the way they doimplants is the same.
But there's certain things thatyou know, we know would work
for each person, and somepractices don't have the room
for a TCA.
Some practices don't havescanners for a TCA.
Some practices don't havescanners.
(33:08):
You know so what are they doing, but there's certain things
that you can still take awayfrom the course that will say
that will help you increase yourimplant numbers Amazing.
Dr James (33:17):
Cool.
Well, listen, amit.
Thank you so much for your timetoday and for coming on the
Dentist who Invests podcast.
This can't be the last one thatwe do.
We need to do another onebecause I reckon there's at
least well many more episodes ofuh knowledge in that head.
So it's our, it's our duty togo out there and share it with
(33:38):
the dental world.
So I'm looking forward to thosealready in the meantime being
smashed and happy along, as Isay thank you for having me.
My absolute pleasure, my.
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