August 21, 2025 • 43 mins
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Have you ever wondered why some professionals seem to effortlessly build wealth while others with identical incomes struggle financially? The answer lies not in how much money you make, but in your fundamental approach to growing and managing wealth.
This eye-opening discussion challenges conventional wisdom about career progression and financial planning. We explore the provocative concept of "retiring at 21" – not as a universal goal, but as a framework for understanding how early financial decisions compound dramatically over time. While building wealth rapidly brings advantages, we candidly discuss why acquiring money before gaining life experience can sometimes be problematic.
The conversation introduces a powerful metaphor that could transform your financial thinking: the "financial pie." Most people approach their finances assuming they must divide a fixed resource between current lifestyle and future savings. The breakthrough comes when you realize you can dramatically increase the size of your pie through strategic career development, business ownership, and intelligent investing strategies.
For healthcare professionals and especially dentists, we outline a specific roadmap to financial independence: first becoming an exceptional, high-grossing associate to generate substantial cash flow, then strategically investing in both skills and assets, and potentially leveraging that foundation to establish associate-led practices. This multi-stage approach creates both immediate income and long-term wealth.
Whether you're a student planning your career or an established professional looking to accelerate your wealth-building journey, this conversation provides a refreshingly honest look at what really works. By learning from others' experiences rather than making every financial mistake yourself, you can chart a faster, more direct course to true financial freedom.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Naveed (00:00):
So I feel like kind of rewinding, because anybody who's
missed that first bit out.
I was basically saying toyourself that obviously in the
last six months I feel like as astudent, I have leveled up who
I am as an individual, what Istand for, how I study, how I
approach things and kind ofhaving foresight.
Now, and I think, as a student,maybe you could reflect on this
(00:20):
as well.
But we don't really look biggerpicture enough and sometimes
we're just caught in the moment.
We're just like I need to study, I need to get year one done, I
need to get year two done andthat's it.
We're not really looking at whatis this leading to right?
So a lot of the time, speakingto those that have been there
and done that is helpful, but wedon't touch base enough with
our peers and I think when weunderstand what people are going
(00:43):
through emotionally andmentally that are in the same
boat as you, then that's whereyou find the gaps that you might
need to put your energies into.
So I don't know you tell me,what was it like at uni for you,
like, did you have that kind ofexperience as well, where, if
you didn't look bigger picture,or were you different mindset?
Dr James (00:58):
I, I thought completely differently whenever
I was student.
I just do not see the same theworld the same way as I do now
at all.
I was, so I just saw thingswith blinkers on.
I was like we do this, then wedo that, then we qualify, then
we get a job and blah, blah,blah.
And when I was a student, right, I remember when I was a
student, I, um, I was just like,man, I don't really have to,
(01:20):
I'm just gonna get this done andthen think about the rest of my
life.
You know, because I'm gonna bechilling after that, I'm gonna
be a dentist.
And now I look back and I'mlike, wow, there was so many
opportunities there, as in.
That was just a completelycrazy that I thought like that.
Because there are kids outthere who are 21, 22, 23.
I read a book, uh, a littlewhile ago and it was called
(01:41):
retired at 21, right, and thatsounds to a lot of people like,
oh, they roll their eyes andwhatever, but it was just.
It was basically just talkingabout the new, new age of, uh,
digital businesses and how that,for some kids out there, the
penny drops so you can do thisstuff incredibly young, like
when they're 15, like whenthey're 16, and then they have
(02:01):
they go through their rockyhorror cut scene, right, okay,
you know where.
He's like running up the steps,that's it, that's it the meat
and the music's playing, all ofthat, right, and you know that
scene.
They say that every businessgoes through that scene, every
individual goes through thatscene and it really simply takes
like four or five years forsomebody to get there.
But they do that because theydo that so young, that penny
(02:24):
drops with regards to all thatstuff incredibly early for them
and they can potentially getthemselves to a stage where
they've basically just checkedout of the system.
They've, they've exited thematrix at that age.
You know, and I guess I guess,with relevance to this podcast
and with relevance to theaudience and what have you know,
it doesn't I?
I would hope that when peoplehear that, that we're not coming
(02:44):
across like how can I say this,saying that that's something
that everybody can aspiretowards, I hope that's received
in the sense that it makes usthink to herself, right, like
wow, this can be done.
Whoa, this is crazy, this isout there.
What can I learn from thoseindividuals, rather than just
reject it and just be like well,that's, that's fake, because
it's so easy to do that, isn'tit?
It's so easy to be cynicalabout everything let me play
(03:07):
devil's advocate here, right?
Naveed (03:09):
do you think that those people although as much as we
are, you know, grass is alwaysgrieving right?
We all aspire.
We wish that we could have beenretired at 21.
Let's be real.
Are they not missing out amassive chunk of life experience
by not going through it?
What do you think?
Dr James (03:28):
I actually do agree with you, because if I was that
age and I was financially free,I would have just been.
There were so many experiencesthat I went through that were
good for me, as in they made megrow mature, and I think if that
would have happened to me toofast, I would have just been the
(03:49):
most insufferable human beingof all time.
Right, because it definitely isyour law.
It's it's way more likely thatthat stuff will go to your head
at that age, right, like it'sjust way more likely.
Um, I hope I wouldn't have been,but there's definitely a
greater likelihood yeah so youare right, like it's definitely
not all about the one lens interms of that one lens, the lens
(04:15):
of wealth and the way, the lensof making money, you know it's,
there's, there's a lot more tous as human beings.
So, yeah, I do agree, I, I, I,I, I wish you could have, I wish
there was some way that youcould have that, but also have
those experiences that groundyou as well, because that's the
ultimate person right there.
Usually it's one or the other,really not always, I think.
(04:37):
I think you know what it can beit's kind of like it's.
Naveed (04:40):
It's kind of like you know those people that win the
lottery and they've never beenrich and and then they never
hold on to the money, do they?
There was a study, wasn't there, or a statistic, and I'm going
off, I'm paraphrasing almosthere.
But hardly anyone that's everwon the lottery, that hasn't
come from money or hasn'tgrafted for money, has actually
retained that level of financialfreedom.
They've always blown it becausethey don't have that life
(05:02):
experience to do with it.
Now I get it.
There's a caveat here.
These youngsters, they mighthave found the way to graft
quick and efficiently to thenbecome retired at 21.
But going through the rough andthe tough parts of life is so
important.
I remember when I was aboutthat age mid-20s, let's say I
(05:24):
landed a quite decent job as anational account manager.
So that's my previous life andif you add up with the car
allowances, the housingallowances and all the benefits
and bonuses, I was gettingbeyond a six-figure salary.
And for somebody in theirmid-20s, getting beyond a
six-figure salary back then isunheard of and I didn't deserve
it.
I'll be completely honest withyou a six-figure salary back
(05:45):
then it was unheard of and Ididn't deserve it.
I'll be completely honest withyou.
I think maybe my CV was overlyglamorized.
I'm not going to lie about it.
Half of that probably wasn'teven real right.
And I'm on your podcast and Ican almost do a little bit of
what you do, which is chat forEngland, right, or Ireland, in
your case, right.
You do which is chat forEngland, right, or Ireland, in
(06:06):
your case, right, and the ideais that sells, that really does
sell.
So if you can do that, peoplejust buy into your personality.
Problem with that was I wasgetting paid a hell of a lot for
doing not so much and I kind ofthought that was life.
I just thought, well, you know,whatever, I'll just roll
through the punches, I'll getwhat it is, I'll get paid for it
for just being me and a bitlike you were saying, it is
(06:27):
quite.
You know, it's an insufferabletype of personality because then
you believe, you believe thehype, so you kind of walk around
like you own the place, butthen you don't have the
whereabouts or the knowledge ofhow to look after that money
because you just think it'sgoing to be endless and you
think you deserve it.
So because of that I ended up.
I still remember this I wouldeat at the most lavish
(06:47):
restaurants that a guy my ageshould not be eating at.
I bought a BMW 3 Series, a boyon finance.
The finance payment was stupid,but back then you don't think
about it, you don't think aboutinterest rates, you don't think
about terms for payments,nothing.
You just think, well, I canafford three grand a month, I'll
do it.
So there was you know you.
Just you haven't got that lifeexperience.
(07:07):
This is what I mean.
There is a dangerous path tostep on, which is why I'm, very
personally speaking.
I'm so happy and grateful thatI've got people like yourself
and others in my network that Ican learn from, whether that's
directly or whether that's fromlistening to your podcasts or
your seminars.
I can learn from whether that'sdirectly or whether that's from
listening to your podcasts oryour seminars, webinars,
whatever it might be, and otherpeople that have said you know,
(07:28):
this is what we've encountered,this is where we're at now and
these are the learnings inbetween, and I always say it
takes a smart man to learn fromyou know your mistakes, but it
takes a genius to learn fromsomeone else's, because you have
to, like, bury that pride,right, you really have to bury
that ego and say do you knowwhat?
I'm not going to take that risk, I'm going to learn.
I didn't do that.
I've only just started doingthat because, like I say, I've
got people like you now andothers that are really paving
(07:51):
the way, and I just wish, inhindsight, I'd done that when I
was younger.
But that's how the cookiecrumbles, isn't it?
Dr James (07:58):
Well, you know what?
There's one yes to virtuallyeverything that you said there,
in fact, everything really.
That's all true, and I guesswhat that reminds me of is it's
the old adage it's about howmuch you earn, but it's also
about how you earn it right,like that is equally important,
if not more important, side ofthe equation that doesn't get as
(08:20):
much airtime.
So what I mean mean, I meanthere's those articles that you
see on the internet from time totime and it's like middle class
, middle class, 200k a year, butbrooke as hell, right, oh, yeah
, yeah is what goes, comes in,goes out.
And what you have to rememberis right, if you're employed and
you're earning 200 grand,you're only really getting 100k
(08:42):
in your hand, right, and and Isay only really like that's
nothing, but like that is goodmoney, obviously.
But if you've got two kids inprivate school, if you've got a
nice car and you've got a reallynice mortgage on a nice house,
that's going to go real fast,right.
And then all of a sudden youlook, you have the appearance of
somebody's wealthy.
You probably are wealthy likeyou are, I guess but you're
(09:06):
still in that zone, right whereyou're gonna have to be doing
that for like 20, 30 years toget to the point where you
eventually become financiallyfree.
So I guess what that reminds meof it's like yes, you're
earning your money, um, butwe're because of the boat that
we're, because of the train thatwe're on, or because of that,
(09:26):
how that specific road lookslike.
That is the destination, that'show that looks, and I'm not
saying that you shouldn't dothat.
I'm just saying that we want toplay games that we want to win
right.
Play games that you want theoutcome of right, and if you
want more, then you might haveto do different things or see
things in a different way.
But the trouble is, what arethose things, what's real and
(09:48):
what's not real?
And that's what I see a lotwhenever it comes to finance,
because there's so much hype andcrap like that on twitter and
what have you um, it's genuinelyhard to discern.
Like it's genuinely hard todiscern, you know, and even even
for people who and especiallyfor people who don't really
necessarily know that much aboutfinance, like they literally
don't know what real looks likeor what normal is, so they kind
(10:11):
of tar everything with one brushand then that holds them back
from making the right decisions,because they just think
everything's a scam.
You see people like that aswell all the time, right, and,
um, you know, I'm not sayingthis in any way, I'm definitely
not saying this in a way to likebe diminishing of anybody.
You know, I'm these areobservations and I'm sharing
them from the point of view, uh,of the, the point of view that
(10:31):
they are interestingobservations, and I really think
the remedy is just to go andlearn about money and how it
works, because then you've gotmore of a nose for this stuff.
Just to circle back to what Iwas saying a second ago it's
about how much you earn, butit's also about how you earn it
right, and then if we kind oftake that to the next level,
it's like okay, cool.
So let's say that we invest inassets, or let's say that we
(10:54):
have a business which has somesort of recurring revenue model,
then we know that there's goingto be a certain level of income
that comes in every month.
That is not necessarily linkedto our time, cause it was
basically the only two ways thatyou can do that.
I mean it comes from assets,right, like it literally comes
from assets, right.
And if we're going to talkabout assets that give you
(11:14):
cashflow, there's only reallylike three.
I mean it's either going to beproperty, a business, or you can
use stocks and funds that way,but it's not advisable because
you really want to roll them upand have them compound.
Have you ever seen on thoseinvesting apps where it's like
they have a fund and then at theend of the fund's name and
brackets, it'll say income,it'll say inc or acc?
(11:37):
Have you noticed that?
You know what that means?
no yeah, this is really cool.
This is a brilliant factoidright acc is an accumulation
fund, so what that means is um.
What that means is that itautomatically reinvests the
dividends in your behalf incomefund will pay you the dividends
(12:01):
every month or whatever you know, periodically, yeah, and they
will appear as cash in thebalance of your isa or your
pension or whatever accountthey're in.
So if you want to, if youhaven't, this is a big slip up
that a lot of people go through.
Right, it's like they havetheir money in inc funds.
They want their 10 a year fromthe s&p, but where the where the
(12:26):
actual breakdown of that 10comes from, is six percent
increase in value of the stocks,capital appreciation, and four
percent three to four percent isfrom the dividends, right?
So you're not getting your 10unless you're manually
reinvesting the money.
If you have an income fund,it's an acc fund, right, but
anyway, I just love that.
I think that was one of thecoolest things ever I don't know
(12:47):
.
Naveed (12:47):
I had no idea about it yeah, is it?
Dr James (12:49):
it's cool the right word, I don't know.
Naveed (12:50):
I just like little stuff like that, yeah no, no it is, I
think, because most peoplewouldn't know that.
I don't know that I mean onething.
One thing you did say, right,uh, whether you meant pension in
in its most raw form or whetheryou meant pension in terms of a
future fund.
But I know recently in the UKwhether you've got your finger
in the pulse with that, but theLabour government have obviously
(13:12):
moved pensions now to is it 68,67 years old, that you can only
claim 25% of it, and then whenyou're 72 or 74, you can claim
the rest of it.
Dr James (13:22):
I believe that's for the nhs pension.
I think sips, as in privatepensions, are still 57 okay, but
most.
I think they're actuallycurrently 55, but they will be.
They will be 57 in 2027.
So for most people listeningthis podcast, it's going to be
57 before you can get okay, okay, okay, perfect, perfect.
Naveed (13:41):
Because because I I've always had a qualm with, with
the idea of, uh, a pension Imean a pension fund if it's done
privately, for doing ityourself, I think it's, it's uh,
maybe you will disagree withthis, uh, maybe you won't um, I
guess that's probably yourshtick, really, but uh, for me
it's very much a case of likethe raw form of a pension.
I I try to educate people thatit's not worth it.
(14:01):
Do it yourself, manage your ownportfolio, manage your own
investments, understand it,learn from the likes of yourself
, learn from all the informationonline.
But, as you quite rightly saidbefore, just make sure you're
going through the right avenues,because there's so much BS
online nowadays that people endup being scammed.
So I think raising theawareness and bringing more
light to it is so important.
But a pension in itself, you'repaying someone to do something
(14:24):
you do yourself, and then you'renot getting the return on it
anyway.
So you know, if you're going tokeep it simple, just doing the
SMP and do it yourself.
I've never understood whypeople don't do this.
Why is it so hard for people togrip this?
You tell me.
Dr James (14:36):
A few reasons.
So here's what I've seen in myexperience.
So you're right, the very firstthing to weigh up is is it
actually the right thing for usand our goals right?
And the received wisdom is, asin the wisdom that our parents
would tell us is everyone shouldhave a pension, right?
Yeah, yeah and perhaps lots ofpeople should, but not everyone
of you ask me, and there's such.
(14:57):
There is such a thing as havinga pension too early in your
life.
If you do ask me.
Interesting and the reason whyslightly counterintuitive that
you might expect.
You know that's slightlycounterintuitive versus what you
might expect someone to say, orsomeone maybe like me to say,
but the reason is you've heardof the lifetime allowance.
Naveed (15:19):
Yes, yes, yes.
Dr James (15:21):
They don't have that anymore.
But what that is is that,basically, when your pension
exceeds a certain certainthreshold of value, that you get
taxed very heavily uponwithdrawal of.
Upon crystallization now, theybrought that in 2012.
Okay, at one point, no, we'dhave to, we'd have to fact check
(15:41):
this, but it's something alongthese lines.
You'd have to get the exactstats right.
It brought it in initially in2012.
The original threshold at whichyou begin to become taxed very
heavily was like two million.
Now, you might think, becauseof inflation, they increased it
every year.
It actually they actuallydidn't.
It went down to like 1.25 in2017 and then it remained there
(16:01):
for a long time.
Naveed (16:03):
Super and I'm sorry.
What was, what was the?
What was the tax?
Roughly on that.
So you said they taxed off thatI believe it was something.
Dr James (16:10):
There was like an extra 25 percent levy on your
withdrawals, I believe.
So it basically doubled the taxon money that was over that.
It was, it was proportionalright.
So it was doubled the tax onmoney that was over that.
It was proportional right.
So it was only the money thatwas over that limit when you
withdrew.
So if your pension was $2million, the limit was $1
(16:33):
million.
For simple math, if you took out$100,000 a year, normally it
would be taxed at a certainlevel, but there was an extra
25% on that tax, on the extrahalf, basically.
But anyway, it's complicated,but anyway.
So, um, I was gonna say wherewas I, where was I going with
(16:54):
that?
Yeah, so anyway, um, that was athing.
It's no longer a thing.
I believe it was.
Was it?
Was it?
Rishi sunak scrapped it, maybe,but they will a thousand percent
bring that back right, becauseit's a big old honey trap, right
, like you put the money in andthen they've got it and then if
they change the rules, you youcan't get it, like that's
(17:15):
literally the point right, likeit's already in there.
Yeah, so if you think about it,if someone everybody's always
encouraged to do that and thenthey bring it back, which in my
opinion, they categorically willdo at some stage.
Uh, because the pension, yeahit's, it's a big, there's a lot
of money in pensions.
It's too, it's too juicy forthe government not to not to
interfere with it.
Uh, but yeah, just to run thatoff super duper quick.
(17:38):
Uh, all I was going to say is,if you begin contributing
relatively early in your career,you're way more likely to
exceed that threshold when itdoes return.
Naveed (17:46):
If you ask me I've got a question after then.
So so this is.
This is almost like a lag,isn't it?
There's almost like a legacymindset generation to generation
.
We get fed financial advicefrom the generation above us.
The government takes advantageof that, and then I guess we as
a generation will be telling ourkids don't trust the government
(18:08):
and pensions, do it yourself.
Is there now almost a risk thatthey will then get involved
with private investments?
Because people will slowly Imean, the generation is coming,
they will slowly be forced awayfrom a traditional pension and
more into maybe a privateportfolio is?
Is there risk now that thegovernment are going to say,
well, we're losing money herebecause no one's taking a
(18:29):
traditional pension.
We now need to find a way to todig into this these upcoming
generations.
How can you see that panningout?
Dr James (18:35):
yeah, well, I mean, if they need money, they'll just
look for places that they cangenerate tax from right.
There's only there's only twoways a government can make more
money.
They'll just look for placesthat they can generate tax from
right.
There's only, there's only twoways a government can make more
money they can increase taxes orthey can print more money.
There's only two ways, right?
Uh, so it depends how corneredthey are at the time, doesn't it
?
I guess, and I think everythingis on the cards.
(18:55):
I mean, people talk about thethem raiding isis and changing
the rules on those.
If you actually look up howmuch wealth in this country is
stored in ISIS versus how muchis in pensions, it's something
like a factor of 50 more inpensions, basically because
they've been around for so muchlonger, right?
Yeah, of course, and everyonehas a pension, or at least lots
of people do, because it'susually arranged through their
(19:17):
work.
You've got a cat, by the way.
Naveed (19:20):
I have two, oh you do.
Um, you got a cat, by the way.
I have two, oh you did.
Yeah, I'm fostering cats.
Dr James (19:26):
One of them's leaving next week, so oh, that's nice
anyway, not to digress.
Uh, where were we?
What were we just talking about?
Naveed (19:31):
uh, you said there, there there were.
There's a lot more pensionsthat there are uh, ices
proportionally, there's so muchuh stored in pensions.
Dr James (19:39):
Because is ice is having been around that long?
Ice has been around like 15, 10years before.
They were called like peps theyhad different names and it was
only.
It was only 3k that you couldput in and I believe that you
used to get taxed on thedividends in them.
Um, but yeah, this is allobscure finance factoids, but
yeah, I says I've not beenaround that long.
(20:01):
That's.
That's why when someone's anicer millionaire, it's like
really, people talk about thatlike it's you know, it's, it's
it's quite impressive, right,because you've obviously been
able to grow your money somehow,you know.
Um, but yeah, I says not beenaround that long.
Pensions have been aroundforever, ever you know, and most
people have pensions, even ifthey haven't set one up
themselves, because it's throughtheir workplace.
(20:22):
And then the other thing toremember is that 95, I heard a
crazy stat the other day numberof people in what percentage of
people in the UK have opened?
Naveed (20:34):
an ISA Five.
That's a lot You've got to bemore.
Dr James (20:40):
Yeah, you nailed it.
I actually came over the waythere because I said 90, and
then I cut myself, figured thatone no, I was trying to do it.
Naveed (20:48):
I was trying to do it based off of, uh, the stat you
said earlier that a lot morepeople have got uh pensions
right.
So, or that's more the thetraditional routes.
I was just thinking, surely itcan't be.
I was going to go a lot higher,to be honest with you, because
I thought, surely, like uh,people are investing in their
futures, but clearly not fiveflipping percent of the uk
population have an isa bananasright.
Dr James (21:12):
Um, I must admit, though, dentists are better.
In my experience it's it'sproportionally higher.
I think it's maybe like 20 to30 percent.
Uh, oh, dentists who have isis,because, well, I mean, I need
to get some actual data on that.
You know, that's purelyanecdotal, it's just me licking
my finger and putting it in theair a little bit, uh.
But the reason I say that isbecause when I pick up the phone
(21:33):
to people, when we get totalking about this stuff, it
tends to come up, and usuallymost people have asses.
But then again, what you haveto remember is, by the sheer
fact that we picked up the phoneto each other, there's a good
chance that they'veself-selected as somebody who's
into finance in the first placeand we get to talking because
they're already interested in it, whereas I probably wouldn't
really attract people thataren't as much.
(21:55):
So yeah, it would be good toget some objective statistics on
that, but I definitely, Idefinitely reckon dentists, as a
rule of thumb more of themproportionally have ices.
But yeah, what is categoricallytrue is that only five percent
of the uk population have ices.
And one more teeny thing just toround that off.
When we do get to talking aboutthe dentist sizes there's, I
(22:17):
could probably out of havingthat conversation.
Maybe like 100, 200 times,probably more, probably more
than that, I don't know.
I reckon there's only ever beenmaybe two, three people that
I've thought to myself you haveit nailed Like this is just
completely optimized as in.
This can't physically be anybetter than what you have.
(22:38):
Most of the time there'ssomething to tweak for other
people.
Most of the time, whether thatbe a better platform or a better
fund, or you have most of thetime there's something to tweak
for other people.
Most of the time, whether thatbe a better platform or a better
fund or reduce the fees orwhatever, there's always a
little teeny, teeny, teeny thing.
Uh, even if I'm just tell themthere and then that's fine,
right, but yeah, it's so.
What I'm trying to say is thatof the five percent who do have
isis, the people who are usingit like to the very best they
(23:01):
possibly can.
It's like maybe like point onethere we are.
That is nuts if you're a ukdentist and you wish to add to
your verifiable cpd portfoliofor this learning cycle, it's
worth knowing that dentistryinvest has over a thousand
minutes of free verifiable CPDon our website.
(23:24):
Just simply head over towwwdennis2investcom and hit the
video slash CPD tab and you cango right ahead and help yourself
to as much CPD as you need.
You'll also find a link thattakes you straight to the CPD
section of the Dennis to investwebsite in the podcast
description.
Also find a link that takes youstraight to the CPD section of
the Dentistry Invest website inthe podcast description.
Naveed (23:47):
I've got to ask you something right, and this is
something that I guess some ofthe younger folk argue, I think,
getting closer to my age nowI'm going to be 39 next month,
for example, so I'm maybe almostsitting on the fence, but and I
don't know whether I canarticulate this well enough Let
me try.
So people almost say what's thepoint of investing so heavily
(24:09):
for the future when I'm notgoing to use that much money
when I'm older?
Because all of the drive andthe passion and the crazy things
I want to do in my youngeryears, that's going to want to
drive a Ferrari when I'm 60 or70.
I'm not going to be botheredabout living a lavish lifestyle
and eating at fancy restaurants.
Yeah, I might go here and there,but it's never going to be as
(24:30):
much as the Instagram years andthe TikTok years of your 20s and
your 30s.
Why should I invest so much inmy future when I can just use it
now, enjoy that time and justbe more comfortable in my later
life?
So surely you get this askasked how do you deal with it?
What's your advice?
Because I'm speaking asstudents all the damn time, and
(24:52):
this is, this is what they'realways saying so.
What's your thoughts on that?
Dr James (24:55):
it's, it's the eternal quandary.
Right, it's the eternalquandary.
Yeah, and absolutely.
That is categorically true andI feel like there is I'm
actually going to say somethingright now.
That's slightlycounterintuitive and it's
actually a really big way thatyou can poke a hole in a lot of
inverted commas advice out there, right, so you think about it.
(25:16):
It's kind of like going off thelogic on what we've just said.
Right, it's kind of like youhave this pie right that comes
in every month and that that isyour income, right, and it's all
about how we divide up the pie,right?
So if the pie is this size andwe want to put this much away
for a future, but we want totake some more of the pie and
(25:37):
have some fun in the here andnow, there's two versions of us.
Right, there's here and now andthere's the future, the past.
That already happened.
It's gone, right.
So when it comes to our money,it's either right now or is at
some point in the future, yeah,so, yeah, what you're saying is,
and what you're, what you'rearticulating is that a lot of
people feel like they're notsure how to slice and dice that
(26:00):
pie.
Right, that's it, yeah.
Here's the slightlycounterintuitive thing which is
maybe a little controversial,but I'm gonna say anyway, we
love it on this podcast.
My friend, I think you justhave to be real right.
You know, and it's, it's.
I'm not saying that this iseasy to do.
I'm definitely not making itout that this is easy to do at
all.
What is about to come out of mymouth?
Think about it.
(26:21):
That whole debate and argumentis precluded on the pie staying
the same size, because if thepie does this, ah then all of a
sudden and what I'm doing in myhands people who are listening
on the podcast is I'm, I'mmaking them bigger, right, we're
gonna find a big bite, big bite, yeah, a big old pie.
(26:41):
Uh, then what that means isthat you actually potentially
have enough to do both.
And dentists do that withouteven realizing it, right, and
here's why they do it.
Here's why they do it, navid,right, because think about even
maxing out your ISA every singleyear 20,000 pounds, and, by the
(27:02):
way, that's post-tax that money, right, so that realistically
means you've earned like 30 to40, between those numbers, right
, most people would kind ofnever dream of having 40k from
their pay slip every month,right, spare.
Or their pay slip every year,spare, right, like.
That's just an insane realityfor a lot of people.
And for cent, with dennis,we're so casual, we're just like
(27:23):
, oh, I max out my isa, just abit unsure what to do next.
Or sometimes it's like max outmy isa, max out my pension, um,
where does the money go?
Now, you know what I mean.
And it's like they're you knowI say this in a nice way
sometimes they're like oh, mygod, I don't know what to do and
I'm like, well, that's great,but if we actually step back
here, you're crushing it.
From your ISO alone, you'regoing to be a millionaire when
(27:44):
you're 50, right, and like, alot of people just aren't in
that position, right?
So dentists have made the piebigger without realizing they've
actually done this.
With what necessarily evenrealizing?
Right, because we don't reallyhave context so good outside of
our own lives, right, but if youthink about it, if we focus on
things that will generate usincome, whether that be our
(28:11):
dentistry or whether that be ourassets that actually makes the
pie bigger and you potentiallyhave enough for both.
Not as easy to do.
Not as easy to do.
Naveed (28:17):
It's completely precluded on the pie staying the
same size.
I like that.
I like that.
It's such a weird, weird way ofthinking that that is sadly how
we all think.
We just think it's just likethis, constant, isn't it?
But the truth is, yeah, geez,the pie made it simple.
Dr James (28:31):
The pie made it simple by the way, I just made that up
, the pie thing.
It kind of worked.
I did I just I was just like,hey, it's kind of like a pie,
you know.
I knew that.
I obviously I I knew the kindof philosophy behind it, but I
was like I'm, I'm gonna takethis pie thing and run with it
and it actually oh yeah, you'regonna make a full episode of
just in a pie.
Naveed (28:50):
Yeah, I like it.
That's a good idea.
That for me, it's kind of likeI'm almost at this weird
junction because because if Ihad done this, say when I was,
you know, 23, 24, finished uni,done foundation, you're like I
feel like I could almost do that.
I'm constantly playing thisgame in my head where I'm like
you got 20 years of catching upto do quick so that you could be
(29:13):
at the same level as thesedentists that are actually
coming out of universities, youknow, and I'm going to be
finished in 2027, for example,right.
So I'm always thinking likewhat can I do?
What can I do?
What could I do I to enjoy life, but I don't want to have no
money when I'm old and I ain'tgot much time to work before the
back gives out and the eyesfail me and all the rest of it.
So I'm constantly thinking whatdo I do?
So my game plan is completelydifferent and this is why I,
(29:36):
like you know, obviously readinginto your stuff that you send
through emails and whatnot, andthen obviously speaking to you
directly is like a blessing Innot, and then obviously speaking
to you directly is is is like ablessing in my shoes.
What would you say, withoutobviously giving away too much
maybe I don't know, I don't knowhow you want to pitch it, but
yeah, yeah, like, over there,you you tell me like what, what?
Yeah, like because, okay, I'llgive you my perspective on
(29:58):
things, right?
So in a best case scenario I'llwalk you through it very
quickly.
2027 I'll finish university,right, I'll come back to the UK,
I'll be on a PLVE, so not thenormal UK foundation training,
still end up with a performernumber, but in that year base
income on NHS work alone isbetween 55 and 60K.
This is all pre-tax, you know,plus any private work you do on
(30:20):
top.
But you're hardly going to getany of that in your first year
anyway.
Let's just say you go in andyou've got a 60K pre-tax After
that.
My idea is to just kind of getdown to mixed practice as quick
as possible.
So go from the 100% NHS down toat least 50-50 within first,
let's say, three to four yearsand then beyond that.
I think the character that I amand I completely appreciate
(30:42):
anyone listening that, yes, I'ma student and you're probably
thinking this guy is talking allthis, that and the other.
When it comes down to reality,you're not going to do any of
this.
Fine, I completely appreciateit?
Dr James (30:50):
No, I don't think that at all.
As things go on the game plan.
Naveed (30:55):
I hope so, but I'm just saying for those that are
listening, I know a lot ofpeople off.
That's fine, because there issome truth in that.
There might come a day in fiveyears from now I'm like, yeah,
screw this, I'm not doing this.
So, with the mindset I've gotright now, that's what I would
hope to do, and then, within thethree to five years of practice
, I would love to open up my ownclinic, my own practice.
(31:17):
I think it suits me as anindividual.
It tickles my fancy in terms ofownership, management,
marketing business at the sametime doing some sort of
dentistry alongside it.
But then also it's the hybrididea of having an asset, that is
, a business that then I couldlater on probably sell off
anyway and it should do allright in today's market Again.
(31:38):
Now coming back to my situationin my shoes, what would you say
could be done to optimize that?
If anything, uh, what could yousay should be adjusted so that
we can, we have a better gameplan moving forward with the
limited time?
So I'm not going to be 21 whenI'm done, I'm going to be like
41 when I'm done.
So what's your thoughts?
Dr James (31:57):
sure you know what.
It's a brilliant question and Ihave a very clear answer to
that in my head.
But before I say I just want tocaveat.
What I'm about to say is thatthis is definitely not the right
path for everyone.
How can I say this as well?
It's not if we're going to seteverything else aside, like all
(32:20):
debates and quandaries and whatpeople how can I say this have
about.
You know, viewing thingsthrough this lens that I'm about
to espouse in just a secondpeople.
People think that when you talkabout the money side of
dentistry, that you, you can't.
There's, there's always goingto be a trade-off when it comes
to the ethics and morality sideof it.
Like, they think it's like oneor the other.
(32:40):
They think that those twothings are juxtapositioned or
opposing.
Actually, I think those thingscan be the same.
They can be the same.
If you ask me, right, like, ifyou're doing really high quality
treatment that's going to helpsomeone so that their mouth is
completely, fully rehabilitated,well, you're going to help them
to the highest standard youpossibly can.
(33:00):
Plus, you're going to makemoney off the back of it, right,
you're going to make more moneybecause you've given them more
value, right.
So I think that people uh,there is a big belief out there
that some people hold, that theythink that when you talk about
the money side of dentistry, orit's immediately against, yeah,
it's just that you have tosacrifice ethics when you do
(33:22):
that, which is just not true, ifyou ask me, right.
So so, in that spirit,proceeding in that fit, what I
would do if it was me is I wouldvery.
First goal, okay, is to becomeshit hot at dentistry as an
associate.
Yeah, like, really good.
First priority is investing incourses, right, to get you to
(33:43):
that level.
Right, it's the clinical stuff,but it's also how to
communicate it too.
That's the side that peopledon't recognize, how important
it is.
Yeah, high grossing associate,then you have cash flow.
Then, when you are the highgrossing associate which is
amazing then all of a sudden,then you can start to invest in
accounts.
Invest in accounts, yeah, now,if you want to be a high
(34:07):
grossing associate and continueat that level forever, fine,
you'll probably have a greatlife and you'll be able to put
that's a great way to be.
There's lots of people that Isee who are like 35 and
millionaires through doing that.
Fine, you know, because theyput their money in an isa, or
some of them got lucky withbitcoin and stuff like that.
You know it's possible, like itis completely possible, right,
(34:27):
and that's a nice life, right.
And then if someone wants to, asyou say, open a dental practice
because they want to have alifestyle where it's
associate-led, easier said thandone.
It's not easy to do, it isdefinitely really hard, right,
but at least you have some skinin the game for that possible
(34:47):
reality.
You have to open a dentalpractice, right, like?
You have to take on the risk, Iguess.
Basically, then, the fact thatyou're now a high-grossing
associate means that when you'reworking in your dental practice
and your dental practice needsthe lifeblood of business, which
is cash that you can step inand do that quite well, you can
also.
(35:08):
You also have the cash flow toget good team members.
You also have the cash flow toget good associates as well and
pay them high margins to keepthem in place and invest in the
dental practice, and then,eventually, you can hopefully
get it to the stage where itruns itself a little bit more,
and in order to do that, I would.
Then the next level is investingin the skills of business, the
business of dentistry and thethings that knowing how
(35:30):
dentistry works from a businessperspective, but also knowing
little random things that peopledon't know, like meta ads and
stuff like that, like some ofthe, some of the principles I
see out there are killing it.
Know how meta ads work becausethey went and learned how to do
it.
Or like google ppc and stufflike that.
Right, I don't even know whyppc works, right, I don't know
how google works.
I've never used it, right, butI was considering myself, okay,
(35:51):
at meta ads, um, they can bevery good, they can be very
useful.
I think that's a key skill forbusiness, right, they're very
clever.
Mark zuckerberg right, he madethis thing that's not like a
cornerstone of everybody'sbusiness, right, like if you
want to elevate your business,you have to use his business and
that's why he's so clever,right?
Um, so, anyway, where were we?
(36:13):
So that would be, that would bethe, the roadmap for me.
Basically, now, don't get mewrong, those are just things to
aim for, easier said than done,right?
But that is, of course, in myhead.
People might agree with me,they might disagree with me.
I'm speaking from the heart.
That's what I think, uh, and ifwe're looking at it purely from
(36:33):
the point of view of finances.
For me, that's the quickestpath that I observed.
I did myself in part, uh, andthen, since having a million
billion training conversationswith other dentists who've done
these sorts of things over theyears, you pick up even more
things.
You know what I mean, uh.
So, yeah, that's the routeright there, high grossing
associate, and everything flowsfrom there.
(36:54):
And, by the way, or?
Naveed (36:56):
just do high grossing associate oh, see this, now
you're gonna really get me rightbecause people, you said it,
you said, you said 35billionaire and all of a sudden
me and everyone else went right.
Screw the practice.
Dr James (37:09):
I'm doing this well, you can listen, as in a you know
, um, if you're earning reallywell as an associate and you
just compound your money in aniso with some bitcoin, it's not,
it's, it can happen, right?
Listen, I'm not sayingeverybody should buy bitcoin.
I'm definitely not saying that.
I'm just saying that that's anexample of a method some people
have used.
You could probably just useyour isa or your pension and be
(37:30):
a millionaire if you have reallyhigh cash flow and reinvest it
all into some sort of uh, globalequities fund that does well
and you have a few lucky years.
You know what I mean.
I'm not.
Everything I say is notfinancial advice.
Just want to say that again onthis podcast.
I'm just talking about possiblemethods.
Just get my little disclaimerin there.
But yes, anyway, you don't evennecessarily have to be a high
(37:53):
grossing associate to do that.
It just helps, right.
All I'm saying is that if youstack all these things that I've
just talked about, you'regiving yourself the greatest
chance possible.
That's all I'm saying.
Saying, right, you don't haveto do all of them.
Maybe you just do some of themor one or two, often right, and
you can probably do quite well.
Naveed (38:11):
But I really, I'm actually really glad you asked
me that question, because I'venever said that before in a
podcast like what do you knowwhat I always feel like, you
know, when people come on, notjust not just on you know your
side of things, but justgenerally Everything just seems
so red tape man.
People just don't want to talkabout real life stuff.
Because I'm not saying you, Imean, you've come out quite
(38:34):
clearly just giving us a goodexample, non-financial
information or advice here Again, just disclaimer.
But I think people always getworried to A ask the question
because they don't want to beperceived as a certain person
and be the host, doesn't want toever say anything, because they
say well, I don't want to crossthe limits here, but we need
that.
I think the layman and thepeople that are listening, and
(38:54):
myself included, we just we comeon these things, we listen to
these things, we actually wantadvice, we want info.
Right, we're not just sittingthere trying to listen to things
.
We listen to nonstop.
We can find on TikTok peoplejust saying things within the
limits.
We need that little bit of apush, little bit of advice,
little bit of a recommendationor a suggestion, without being
forced or coerced into it, andthat in itself can actually
(39:16):
start the journey into success,because unless we get it from
someone else, it's usually.
I don't think it catalyzes theprocess.
Enough does it.
So I want to say, on my behalfand probably on behalf of
everyone listening thank you forbeing honest, Thank you for
having an opinion and not justsitting on the fence and saying
screw it.
I want to give the playbookanswer that everyone else gives
(39:37):
and be diplomatic about this,because I think we've had enough
of it and we need more voiceslike yourself that are a bit
unapologetic and come fromexperience, that actually trying
to help people out, because wedon't have enough of that.
Dr James (39:48):
So, seriously, thanks, man, really, really appreciate
that well, listen, that's reallykind, you know, and thank you
for that.
I think that when you kind ofjust tell the real, real of
what's out there, that, how canI say it?
It's because there's so muchcrap and like scammy stuff,
right, that it's there'spotential that you can be tarred
with that brush as well.
Yeah, and that's definitely not.
(40:11):
I'm that's the point ofdentistry.
Invest is to say, right, okay,there are some people out there
who've done really well that youcan't, you can't deny that,
like they exist, right.
So what have they done?
That's all we're doing.
We're documenting that, right,and yeah, if you know it exists,
there must be a way.
So if you're cynical aboutevery single method that you
hear, perhaps you're tarringsome of the really good stuff
(40:33):
with the same brush, right, butthat it kind of circles back to
what I was saying earlier.
That's why having some knowledgein how money works really helps
, because you can tell what'sreal and what isn't real.
Right, and what came out of mymouth just then is like the
realest real.
That's, that's what.
I've met these people and spoketo them and done this stuff to
(40:54):
a degree myself, uh as well.
Uh, that, that for me, that isthe best method.
And if I could go, if I could goback okay, you want to know
definitively that this is howmuch I believe in what and what
I said, and dentistry invest andwhat I do.
If I could go back and tellmyself when I was 25, right, and
go to like the pub with thatguy and tell himself over some
(41:16):
evenings, right, I'd be like,right, this is the roadmap, just
do these things.
You mightn't even understandwhat these things are right now.
You might.
You might know what they are,but you don't.
We don't fully have the sameconcepts as to what they are.
But just keep this, put it onyour wall and just figure out
what this stuff means.
And this is the map right here.
That's genuinely what I wouldsay.
(41:37):
God, strike me down that'samazing, man, honestly.
Naveed (41:42):
And the thing is this is this is a perfect way to
actually circle back, as yousaid, to that first point
retiring at 21.
And we discussed can you do itand maintain it?
And I think it's so importantthat having knowledge and, as
you quite rightly said, havingthe experience of making the
money and then using it and thenlosing it and then rebuilding
it these are such importantfactors to have if you actually
(42:04):
want to be wealthy and again,getting that information from
the likes of yourself andpersonal experience.
I think being too, for example,investing in your eyes too
early, is a bad thing.
I think being rich too early,in my opinion, can be a bad
thing as well if you don't havethe right people around you, the
right experiences, etc.
(42:24):
So you know, getting gettingthat kind of insight from you,
then circling back to thebeginning, I think that's that's
.
That's such a a beautiful wayof like rounding things off in
it.
So I feel like kind of rewinding, because anybody who's
missed that first bit out.
I was basically saying toyourself that obviously in the
last six months I feel like as astudent, I have leveled up who
I am as an individual, what Istand for, how I study, how I
approach things and kind ofhaving foresight.
Now, and I think, as a student,maybe you could reflect on this
(00:20):
as well.
But we don't really look biggerpicture enough and sometimes
we're just caught in the moment.
We're just like I need to study, I need to get year one done, I
need to get year two done andthat's it.
We're not really looking at whatis this leading to right?
So a lot of the time, speakingto those that have been there
and done that is helpful, but wedon't touch base enough with
our peers and I think when weunderstand what people are going
(00:43):
through emotionally andmentally that are in the same
boat as you, then that's whereyou find the gaps that you might
need to put your energies into.
So I don't know you tell me,what was it like at uni for you,
like, did you have that kind ofexperience as well, where, if
you didn't look bigger picture,or were you different mindset?
Dr James (00:58):
I, I thought completely differently whenever
I was student.
I just do not see the same theworld the same way as I do now
at all.
I was, so I just saw thingswith blinkers on.
I was like we do this, then wedo that, then we qualify, then
we get a job and blah, blah,blah.
And when I was a student, right, I remember when I was a
student, I, um, I was just like,man, I don't really have to,
(01:20):
I'm just gonna get this done andthen think about the rest of my
life.
You know, because I'm gonna bechilling after that, I'm gonna
be a dentist.
And now I look back and I'mlike, wow, there was so many
opportunities there, as in.
That was just a completelycrazy that I thought like that.
Because there are kids outthere who are 21, 22, 23.
I read a book, uh, a littlewhile ago and it was called
(01:41):
retired at 21, right, and thatsounds to a lot of people like,
oh, they roll their eyes andwhatever, but it was just.
It was basically just talkingabout the new, new age of, uh,
digital businesses and how that,for some kids out there, the
penny drops so you can do thisstuff incredibly young, like
when they're 15, like whenthey're 16, and then they have
(02:01):
they go through their rockyhorror cut scene, right, okay,
you know where.
He's like running up the steps,that's it, that's it the meat
and the music's playing, all ofthat, right, and you know that
scene.
They say that every businessgoes through that scene, every
individual goes through thatscene and it really simply takes
like four or five years forsomebody to get there.
But they do that because theydo that so young, that penny
(02:24):
drops with regards to all thatstuff incredibly early for them
and they can potentially getthemselves to a stage where
they've basically just checkedout of the system.
They've, they've exited thematrix at that age.
You know, and I guess I guess,with relevance to this podcast
and with relevance to theaudience and what have you know,
it doesn't I?
I would hope that when peoplehear that, that we're not coming
(02:44):
across like how can I say this,saying that that's something
that everybody can aspiretowards, I hope that's received
in the sense that it makes usthink to herself, right, like
wow, this can be done.
Whoa, this is crazy, this isout there.
What can I learn from thoseindividuals, rather than just
reject it and just be like well,that's, that's fake, because
it's so easy to do that, isn'tit?
It's so easy to be cynicalabout everything let me play
(03:07):
devil's advocate here, right?
Naveed (03:09):
do you think that those people although as much as we
are, you know, grass is alwaysgrieving right?
We all aspire.
We wish that we could have beenretired at 21.
Let's be real.
Are they not missing out amassive chunk of life experience
by not going through it?
What do you think?
Dr James (03:28):
I actually do agree with you, because if I was that
age and I was financially free,I would have just been.
There were so many experiencesthat I went through that were
good for me, as in they made megrow mature, and I think if that
would have happened to me toofast, I would have just been the
(03:49):
most insufferable human beingof all time.
Right, because it definitely isyour law.
It's it's way more likely thatthat stuff will go to your head
at that age, right, like it'sjust way more likely.
Um, I hope I wouldn't have been,but there's definitely a
greater likelihood yeah so youare right, like it's definitely
not all about the one lens interms of that one lens, the lens
(04:15):
of wealth and the way, the lensof making money, you know it's,
there's, there's a lot more tous as human beings.
So, yeah, I do agree, I, I, I,I, I wish you could have, I wish
there was some way that youcould have that, but also have
those experiences that groundyou as well, because that's the
ultimate person right there.
Usually it's one or the other,really not always, I think.
(04:37):
I think you know what it can beit's kind of like it's.
Naveed (04:40):
It's kind of like you know those people that win the
lottery and they've never beenrich and and then they never
hold on to the money, do they?
There was a study, wasn't there, or a statistic, and I'm going
off, I'm paraphrasing almosthere.
But hardly anyone that's everwon the lottery, that hasn't
come from money or hasn'tgrafted for money, has actually
retained that level of financialfreedom.
They've always blown it becausethey don't have that life
(05:02):
experience to do with it.
Now I get it.
There's a caveat here.
These youngsters, they mighthave found the way to graft
quick and efficiently to thenbecome retired at 21.
But going through the rough andthe tough parts of life is so
important.
I remember when I was aboutthat age mid-20s, let's say I
(05:24):
landed a quite decent job as anational account manager.
So that's my previous life andif you add up with the car
allowances, the housingallowances and all the benefits
and bonuses, I was gettingbeyond a six-figure salary.
And for somebody in theirmid-20s, getting beyond a
six-figure salary back then isunheard of and I didn't deserve
it.
I'll be completely honest withyou a six-figure salary back
(05:45):
then it was unheard of and Ididn't deserve it.
I'll be completely honest withyou.
I think maybe my CV was overlyglamorized.
I'm not going to lie about it.
Half of that probably wasn'teven real right.
And I'm on your podcast and Ican almost do a little bit of
what you do, which is chat forEngland, right, or Ireland, in
your case, right.
You do which is chat forEngland, right, or Ireland, in
(06:06):
your case, right, and the ideais that sells, that really does
sell.
So if you can do that, peoplejust buy into your personality.
Problem with that was I wasgetting paid a hell of a lot for
doing not so much and I kind ofthought that was life.
I just thought, well, you know,whatever, I'll just roll
through the punches, I'll getwhat it is, I'll get paid for it
for just being me and a bitlike you were saying, it is
(06:27):
quite.
You know, it's an insufferabletype of personality because then
you believe, you believe thehype, so you kind of walk around
like you own the place, butthen you don't have the
whereabouts or the knowledge ofhow to look after that money
because you just think it'sgoing to be endless and you
think you deserve it.
So because of that I ended up.
I still remember this I wouldeat at the most lavish
(06:47):
restaurants that a guy my ageshould not be eating at.
I bought a BMW 3 Series, a boyon finance.
The finance payment was stupid,but back then you don't think
about it, you don't think aboutinterest rates, you don't think
about terms for payments,nothing.
You just think, well, I canafford three grand a month, I'll
do it.
So there was you know you.
Just you haven't got that lifeexperience.
(07:07):
This is what I mean.
There is a dangerous path tostep on, which is why I'm, very
personally speaking.
I'm so happy and grateful thatI've got people like yourself
and others in my network that Ican learn from, whether that's
directly or whether that's fromlistening to your podcasts or
your seminars.
I can learn from whether that'sdirectly or whether that's from
listening to your podcasts oryour seminars, webinars,
whatever it might be, and otherpeople that have said you know,
(07:28):
this is what we've encountered,this is where we're at now and
these are the learnings inbetween, and I always say it
takes a smart man to learn fromyou know your mistakes, but it
takes a genius to learn fromsomeone else's, because you have
to, like, bury that pride,right, you really have to bury
that ego and say do you knowwhat?
I'm not going to take that risk, I'm going to learn.
I didn't do that.
I've only just started doingthat because, like I say, I've
got people like you now andothers that are really paving
(07:51):
the way, and I just wish, inhindsight, I'd done that when I
was younger.
But that's how the cookiecrumbles, isn't it?
Dr James (07:58):
Well, you know what?
There's one yes to virtuallyeverything that you said there,
in fact, everything really.
That's all true, and I guesswhat that reminds me of is it's
the old adage it's about howmuch you earn, but it's also
about how you earn it right,like that is equally important,
if not more important, side ofthe equation that doesn't get as
(08:20):
much airtime.
So what I mean mean, I meanthere's those articles that you
see on the internet from time totime and it's like middle class
, middle class, 200k a year, butbrooke as hell, right, oh, yeah
, yeah is what goes, comes in,goes out.
And what you have to rememberis right, if you're employed and
you're earning 200 grand,you're only really getting 100k
(08:42):
in your hand, right, and and Isay only really like that's
nothing, but like that is goodmoney, obviously.
But if you've got two kids inprivate school, if you've got a
nice car and you've got a reallynice mortgage on a nice house,
that's going to go real fast,right.
And then all of a sudden youlook, you have the appearance of
somebody's wealthy.
You probably are wealthy likeyou are, I guess but you're
(09:06):
still in that zone, right whereyou're gonna have to be doing
that for like 20, 30 years toget to the point where you
eventually become financiallyfree.
So I guess what that reminds meof it's like yes, you're
earning your money, um, butwe're because of the boat that
we're, because of the train thatwe're on, or because of that,
(09:26):
how that specific road lookslike.
That is the destination, that'show that looks, and I'm not
saying that you shouldn't dothat.
I'm just saying that we want toplay games that we want to win
right.
Play games that you want theoutcome of right, and if you
want more, then you might haveto do different things or see
things in a different way.
But the trouble is, what arethose things, what's real and
(09:48):
what's not real?
And that's what I see a lotwhenever it comes to finance,
because there's so much hype andcrap like that on twitter and
what have you um, it's genuinelyhard to discern.
Like it's genuinely hard todiscern, you know, and even even
for people who and especiallyfor people who don't really
necessarily know that much aboutfinance, like they literally
don't know what real looks likeor what normal is, so they kind
(10:11):
of tar everything with one brushand then that holds them back
from making the right decisions,because they just think
everything's a scam.
You see people like that aswell all the time, right, and,
um, you know, I'm not sayingthis in any way, I'm definitely
not saying this in a way to likebe diminishing of anybody.
You know, I'm these areobservations and I'm sharing
them from the point of view, uh,of the, the point of view that
(10:31):
they are interestingobservations, and I really think
the remedy is just to go andlearn about money and how it
works, because then you've gotmore of a nose for this stuff.
Just to circle back to what Iwas saying a second ago it's
about how much you earn, butit's also about how you earn it
right, and then if we kind oftake that to the next level,
it's like okay, cool.
So let's say that we invest inassets, or let's say that we
(10:54):
have a business which has somesort of recurring revenue model,
then we know that there's goingto be a certain level of income
that comes in every month.
That is not necessarily linkedto our time, cause it was
basically the only two ways thatyou can do that.
I mean it comes from assets,right, like it literally comes
from assets, right.
And if we're going to talkabout assets that give you
(11:14):
cashflow, there's only reallylike three.
I mean it's either going to beproperty, a business, or you can
use stocks and funds that way,but it's not advisable because
you really want to roll them upand have them compound.
Have you ever seen on thoseinvesting apps where it's like
they have a fund and then at theend of the fund's name and
brackets, it'll say income,it'll say inc or acc?
(11:37):
Have you noticed that?
You know what that means?
no yeah, this is really cool.
This is a brilliant factoidright acc is an accumulation
fund, so what that means is um.
What that means is that itautomatically reinvests the
dividends in your behalf incomefund will pay you the dividends
(12:01):
every month or whatever you know, periodically, yeah, and they
will appear as cash in thebalance of your isa or your
pension or whatever accountthey're in.
So if you want to, if youhaven't, this is a big slip up
that a lot of people go through.
Right, it's like they havetheir money in inc funds.
They want their 10 a year fromthe s&p, but where the where the
(12:26):
actual breakdown of that 10comes from, is six percent
increase in value of the stocks,capital appreciation, and four
percent three to four percent isfrom the dividends, right?
So you're not getting your 10unless you're manually
reinvesting the money.
If you have an income fund,it's an acc fund, right, but
anyway, I just love that.
I think that was one of thecoolest things ever I don't know
(12:47):
.
Naveed (12:47):
I had no idea about it yeah, is it?
Dr James (12:49):
it's cool the right word, I don't know.
Naveed (12:50):
I just like little stuff like that, yeah no, no it is, I
think, because most peoplewouldn't know that.
I don't know that I mean onething.
One thing you did say, right,uh, whether you meant pension in
in its most raw form or whetheryou meant pension in terms of a
future fund.
But I know recently in the UKwhether you've got your finger
in the pulse with that, but theLabour government have obviously
(13:12):
moved pensions now to is it 68,67 years old, that you can only
claim 25% of it, and then whenyou're 72 or 74, you can claim
the rest of it.
Dr James (13:22):
I believe that's for the nhs pension.
I think sips, as in privatepensions, are still 57 okay, but
most.
I think they're actuallycurrently 55, but they will be.
They will be 57 in 2027.
So for most people listeningthis podcast, it's going to be
57 before you can get okay, okay, okay, perfect, perfect.
Naveed (13:41):
Because because I I've always had a qualm with, with
the idea of, uh, a pension Imean a pension fund if it's done
privately, for doing ityourself, I think it's, it's uh,
maybe you will disagree withthis, uh, maybe you won't um, I
guess that's probably yourshtick, really, but uh, for me
it's very much a case of likethe raw form of a pension.
I I try to educate people thatit's not worth it.
(14:01):
Do it yourself, manage your ownportfolio, manage your own
investments, understand it,learn from the likes of yourself
, learn from all the informationonline.
But, as you quite rightly saidbefore, just make sure you're
going through the right avenues,because there's so much BS
online nowadays that people endup being scammed.
So I think raising theawareness and bringing more
light to it is so important.
But a pension in itself, you'repaying someone to do something
(14:24):
you do yourself, and then you'renot getting the return on it
anyway.
So you know, if you're going tokeep it simple, just doing the
SMP and do it yourself.
I've never understood whypeople don't do this.
Why is it so hard for people togrip this?
You tell me.
Dr James (14:36):
A few reasons.
So here's what I've seen in myexperience.
So you're right, the very firstthing to weigh up is is it
actually the right thing for usand our goals right?
And the received wisdom is, asin the wisdom that our parents
would tell us is everyone shouldhave a pension, right?
Yeah, yeah and perhaps lots ofpeople should, but not everyone
of you ask me, and there's such.
(14:57):
There is such a thing as havinga pension too early in your
life.
If you do ask me.
Interesting and the reason whyslightly counterintuitive that
you might expect.
You know that's slightlycounterintuitive versus what you
might expect someone to say, orsomeone maybe like me to say,
but the reason is you've heardof the lifetime allowance.
Naveed (15:19):
Yes, yes, yes.
Dr James (15:21):
They don't have that anymore.
But what that is is that,basically, when your pension
exceeds a certain certainthreshold of value, that you get
taxed very heavily uponwithdrawal of.
Upon crystallization now, theybrought that in 2012.
Okay, at one point, no, we'dhave to, we'd have to fact check
(15:41):
this, but it's something alongthese lines.
You'd have to get the exactstats right.
It brought it in initially in2012.
The original threshold at whichyou begin to become taxed very
heavily was like two million.
Now, you might think, becauseof inflation, they increased it
every year.
It actually they actuallydidn't.
It went down to like 1.25 in2017 and then it remained there
(16:01):
for a long time.
Naveed (16:03):
Super and I'm sorry.
What was, what was the?
What was the tax?
Roughly on that.
So you said they taxed off thatI believe it was something.
Dr James (16:10):
There was like an extra 25 percent levy on your
withdrawals, I believe.
So it basically doubled the taxon money that was over that.
It was, it was proportionalright.
So it was doubled the tax onmoney that was over that.
It was proportional right.
So it was only the money thatwas over that limit when you
withdrew.
So if your pension was $2million, the limit was $1
(16:33):
million.
For simple math, if you took out$100,000 a year, normally it
would be taxed at a certainlevel, but there was an extra
25% on that tax, on the extrahalf, basically.
But anyway, it's complicated,but anyway.
So, um, I was gonna say wherewas I, where was I going with
(16:54):
that?
Yeah, so anyway, um, that was athing.
It's no longer a thing.
I believe it was.
Was it?
Was it?
Rishi sunak scrapped it, maybe,but they will a thousand percent
bring that back right, becauseit's a big old honey trap, right
, like you put the money in andthen they've got it and then if
they change the rules, you youcan't get it, like that's
(17:15):
literally the point right, likeit's already in there.
Yeah, so if you think about it,if someone everybody's always
encouraged to do that and thenthey bring it back, which in my
opinion, they categorically willdo at some stage.
Uh, because the pension, yeahit's, it's a big, there's a lot
of money in pensions.
It's too, it's too juicy forthe government not to not to
interfere with it.
Uh, but yeah, just to run thatoff super duper quick.
(17:38):
Uh, all I was going to say is,if you begin contributing
relatively early in your career,you're way more likely to
exceed that threshold when itdoes return.
Naveed (17:46):
If you ask me I've got a question after then.
So so this is.
This is almost like a lag,isn't it?
There's almost like a legacymindset generation to generation
.
We get fed financial advicefrom the generation above us.
The government takes advantageof that, and then I guess we as
a generation will be telling ourkids don't trust the government
(18:08):
and pensions, do it yourself.
Is there now almost a risk thatthey will then get involved
with private investments?
Because people will slowly Imean, the generation is coming,
they will slowly be forced awayfrom a traditional pension and
more into maybe a privateportfolio is?
Is there risk now that thegovernment are going to say,
well, we're losing money herebecause no one's taking a
(18:29):
traditional pension.
We now need to find a way to todig into this these upcoming
generations.
How can you see that panningout?
Dr James (18:35):
yeah, well, I mean, if they need money, they'll just
look for places that they cangenerate tax from right.
There's only there's only twoways a government can make more
money.
They'll just look for placesthat they can generate tax from
right.
There's only, there's only twoways a government can make more
money they can increase taxes orthey can print more money.
There's only two ways, right?
Uh, so it depends how corneredthey are at the time, doesn't it
?
I guess, and I think everythingis on the cards.
(18:55):
I mean, people talk about thethem raiding isis and changing
the rules on those.
If you actually look up howmuch wealth in this country is
stored in ISIS versus how muchis in pensions, it's something
like a factor of 50 more inpensions, basically because
they've been around for so muchlonger, right?
Yeah, of course, and everyonehas a pension, or at least lots
of people do, because it'susually arranged through their
(19:17):
work.
You've got a cat, by the way.
Naveed (19:20):
I have two, oh you do.
Um, you got a cat, by the way.
I have two, oh you did.
Yeah, I'm fostering cats.
Dr James (19:26):
One of them's leaving next week, so oh, that's nice
anyway, not to digress.
Uh, where were we?
What were we just talking about?
Naveed (19:31):
uh, you said there, there there were.
There's a lot more pensionsthat there are uh, ices
proportionally, there's so muchuh stored in pensions.
Dr James (19:39):
Because is ice is having been around that long?
Ice has been around like 15, 10years before.
They were called like peps theyhad different names and it was
only.
It was only 3k that you couldput in and I believe that you
used to get taxed on thedividends in them.
Um, but yeah, this is allobscure finance factoids, but
yeah, I says I've not beenaround that long.
(20:01):
That's.
That's why when someone's anicer millionaire, it's like
really, people talk about thatlike it's you know, it's, it's
it's quite impressive, right,because you've obviously been
able to grow your money somehow,you know.
Um, but yeah, I says not beenaround that long.
Pensions have been aroundforever, ever you know, and most
people have pensions, even ifthey haven't set one up
themselves, because it's throughtheir workplace.
(20:22):
And then the other thing toremember is that 95, I heard a
crazy stat the other day numberof people in what percentage of
people in the UK have opened?
Naveed (20:34):
an ISA Five.
That's a lot You've got to bemore.
Dr James (20:40):
Yeah, you nailed it.
I actually came over the waythere because I said 90, and
then I cut myself, figured thatone no, I was trying to do it.
Naveed (20:48):
I was trying to do it based off of, uh, the stat you
said earlier that a lot morepeople have got uh pensions
right.
So, or that's more the thetraditional routes.
I was just thinking, surely itcan't be.
I was going to go a lot higher,to be honest with you, because
I thought, surely, like uh,people are investing in their
futures, but clearly not fiveflipping percent of the uk
population have an isa bananasright.
Dr James (21:12):
Um, I must admit, though, dentists are better.
In my experience it's it'sproportionally higher.
I think it's maybe like 20 to30 percent.
Uh, oh, dentists who have isis,because, well, I mean, I need
to get some actual data on that.
You know, that's purelyanecdotal, it's just me licking
my finger and putting it in theair a little bit, uh.
But the reason I say that isbecause when I pick up the phone
(21:33):
to people, when we get totalking about this stuff, it
tends to come up, and usuallymost people have asses.
But then again, what you haveto remember is, by the sheer
fact that we picked up the phoneto each other, there's a good
chance that they'veself-selected as somebody who's
into finance in the first placeand we get to talking because
they're already interested in it, whereas I probably wouldn't
really attract people thataren't as much.
(21:55):
So yeah, it would be good toget some objective statistics on
that, but I definitely, Idefinitely reckon dentists, as a
rule of thumb more of themproportionally have ices.
But yeah, what is categoricallytrue is that only five percent
of the uk population have ices.
And one more teeny thing just toround that off.
When we do get to talking aboutthe dentist sizes there's, I
(22:17):
could probably out of havingthat conversation.
Maybe like 100, 200 times,probably more, probably more
than that, I don't know.
I reckon there's only ever beenmaybe two, three people that
I've thought to myself you haveit nailed Like this is just
completely optimized as in.
This can't physically be anybetter than what you have.
(22:38):
Most of the time there'ssomething to tweak for other
people.
Most of the time, whether thatbe a better platform or a better
fund, or you have most of thetime there's something to tweak
for other people.
Most of the time, whether thatbe a better platform or a better
fund or reduce the fees orwhatever, there's always a
little teeny, teeny, teeny thing.
Uh, even if I'm just tell themthere and then that's fine,
right, but yeah, it's so.
What I'm trying to say is thatof the five percent who do have
isis, the people who are usingit like to the very best they
(23:01):
possibly can.
It's like maybe like point onethere we are.
That is nuts if you're a ukdentist and you wish to add to
your verifiable cpd portfoliofor this learning cycle, it's
worth knowing that dentistryinvest has over a thousand
minutes of free verifiable CPDon our website.
(23:24):
Just simply head over towwwdennis2investcom and hit the
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You'll also find a link thattakes you straight to the CPD
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Also find a link that takes youstraight to the CPD section of
the Dentistry Invest website inthe podcast description.
Naveed (23:47):
I've got to ask you something right, and this is
something that I guess some ofthe younger folk argue, I think,
getting closer to my age nowI'm going to be 39 next month,
for example, so I'm maybe almostsitting on the fence, but and I
don't know whether I canarticulate this well enough Let
me try.
So people almost say what's thepoint of investing so heavily
(24:09):
for the future when I'm notgoing to use that much money
when I'm older?
Because all of the drive andthe passion and the crazy things
I want to do in my youngeryears, that's going to want to
drive a Ferrari when I'm 60 or70.
I'm not going to be botheredabout living a lavish lifestyle
and eating at fancy restaurants.
Yeah, I might go here and there,but it's never going to be as
(24:30):
much as the Instagram years andthe TikTok years of your 20s and
your 30s.
Why should I invest so much inmy future when I can just use it
now, enjoy that time and justbe more comfortable in my later
life?
So surely you get this askasked how do you deal with it?
What's your advice?
Because I'm speaking asstudents all the damn time, and
(24:52):
this is, this is what they'realways saying so.
What's your thoughts on that?
Dr James (24:55):
it's, it's the eternal quandary.
Right, it's the eternalquandary.
Yeah, and absolutely.
That is categorically true andI feel like there is I'm
actually going to say somethingright now.
That's slightlycounterintuitive and it's
actually a really big way thatyou can poke a hole in a lot of
inverted commas advice out there, right, so you think about it.
(25:16):
It's kind of like going off thelogic on what we've just said.
Right, it's kind of like youhave this pie right that comes
in every month and that that isyour income, right, and it's all
about how we divide up the pie,right?
So if the pie is this size andwe want to put this much away
for a future, but we want totake some more of the pie and
(25:37):
have some fun in the here andnow, there's two versions of us.
Right, there's here and now andthere's the future, the past.
That already happened.
It's gone, right.
So when it comes to our money,it's either right now or is at
some point in the future, yeah,so, yeah, what you're saying is,
and what you're, what you'rearticulating is that a lot of
people feel like they're notsure how to slice and dice that
(26:00):
pie.
Right, that's it, yeah.
Here's the slightlycounterintuitive thing which is
maybe a little controversial,but I'm gonna say anyway, we
love it on this podcast.
My friend, I think you justhave to be real right.
You know, and it's, it's.
I'm not saying that this iseasy to do.
I'm definitely not making itout that this is easy to do at
all.
What is about to come out of mymouth?
Think about it.
(26:21):
That whole debate and argumentis precluded on the pie staying
the same size, because if thepie does this, ah then all of a
sudden and what I'm doing in myhands people who are listening
on the podcast is I'm, I'mmaking them bigger, right, we're
gonna find a big bite, big bite, yeah, a big old pie.
(26:41):
Uh, then what that means isthat you actually potentially
have enough to do both.
And dentists do that withouteven realizing it, right, and
here's why they do it.
Here's why they do it, navid,right, because think about even
maxing out your ISA every singleyear 20,000 pounds, and, by the
(27:02):
way, that's post-tax that money, right, so that realistically
means you've earned like 30 to40, between those numbers, right
, most people would kind ofnever dream of having 40k from
their pay slip every month,right, spare.
Or their pay slip every year,spare, right, like.
That's just an insane realityfor a lot of people.
And for cent, with dennis,we're so casual, we're just like
(27:23):
, oh, I max out my isa, just abit unsure what to do next.
Or sometimes it's like max outmy isa, max out my pension, um,
where does the money go?
Now, you know what I mean.
And it's like they're you knowI say this in a nice way
sometimes they're like oh, mygod, I don't know what to do and
I'm like, well, that's great,but if we actually step back
here, you're crushing it.
From your ISO alone, you'regoing to be a millionaire when
(27:44):
you're 50, right, and like, alot of people just aren't in
that position, right?
So dentists have made the piebigger without realizing they've
actually done this.
With what necessarily evenrealizing?
Right, because we don't reallyhave context so good outside of
our own lives, right, but if youthink about it, if we focus on
things that will generate usincome, whether that be our
(28:11):
dentistry or whether that be ourassets that actually makes the
pie bigger and you potentiallyhave enough for both.
Not as easy to do.
Not as easy to do.
Naveed (28:17):
It's completely precluded on the pie staying the
same size.
I like that.
I like that.
It's such a weird, weird way ofthinking that that is sadly how
we all think.
We just think it's just likethis, constant, isn't it?
But the truth is, yeah, geez,the pie made it simple.
Dr James (28:31):
The pie made it simple by the way, I just made that up
, the pie thing.
It kind of worked.
I did I just I was just like,hey, it's kind of like a pie,
you know.
I knew that.
I obviously I I knew the kindof philosophy behind it, but I
was like I'm, I'm gonna takethis pie thing and run with it
and it actually oh yeah, you'regonna make a full episode of
just in a pie.
Naveed (28:50):
Yeah, I like it.
That's a good idea.
That for me, it's kind of likeI'm almost at this weird
junction because because if Ihad done this, say when I was,
you know, 23, 24, finished uni,done foundation, you're like I
feel like I could almost do that.
I'm constantly playing thisgame in my head where I'm like
you got 20 years of catching upto do quick so that you could be
(29:13):
at the same level as thesedentists that are actually
coming out of universities, youknow, and I'm going to be
finished in 2027, for example,right.
So I'm always thinking likewhat can I do?
What can I do?
What could I do I to enjoy life, but I don't want to have no
money when I'm old and I ain'tgot much time to work before the
back gives out and the eyesfail me and all the rest of it.
So I'm constantly thinking whatdo I do?
So my game plan is completelydifferent and this is why I,
(29:36):
like you know, obviously readinginto your stuff that you send
through emails and whatnot, andthen obviously speaking to you
directly is like a blessing Innot, and then obviously speaking
to you directly is is is like ablessing in my shoes.
What would you say, withoutobviously giving away too much
maybe I don't know, I don't knowhow you want to pitch it, but
yeah, yeah, like, over there,you you tell me like what, what?
Yeah, like because, okay, I'llgive you my perspective on
(29:58):
things, right?
So in a best case scenario I'llwalk you through it very
quickly.
2027 I'll finish university,right, I'll come back to the UK,
I'll be on a PLVE, so not thenormal UK foundation training,
still end up with a performernumber, but in that year base
income on NHS work alone isbetween 55 and 60K.
This is all pre-tax, you know,plus any private work you do on
(30:20):
top.
But you're hardly going to getany of that in your first year
anyway.
Let's just say you go in andyou've got a 60K pre-tax After
that.
My idea is to just kind of getdown to mixed practice as quick
as possible.
So go from the 100% NHS down toat least 50-50 within first,
let's say, three to four yearsand then beyond that.
I think the character that I amand I completely appreciate
(30:42):
anyone listening that, yes, I'ma student and you're probably
thinking this guy is talking allthis, that and the other.
When it comes down to reality,you're not going to do any of
this.
Fine, I completely appreciateit?
Dr James (30:50):
No, I don't think that at all.
As things go on the game plan.
Naveed (30:55):
I hope so, but I'm just saying for those that are
listening, I know a lot ofpeople off.
That's fine, because there issome truth in that.
There might come a day in fiveyears from now I'm like, yeah,
screw this, I'm not doing this.
So, with the mindset I've gotright now, that's what I would
hope to do, and then, within thethree to five years of practice
, I would love to open up my ownclinic, my own practice.
(31:17):
I think it suits me as anindividual.
It tickles my fancy in terms ofownership, management,
marketing business at the sametime doing some sort of
dentistry alongside it.
But then also it's the hybrididea of having an asset, that is
, a business that then I couldlater on probably sell off
anyway and it should do allright in today's market Again.
(31:38):
Now coming back to my situationin my shoes, what would you say
could be done to optimize that?
If anything, uh, what could yousay should be adjusted so that
we can, we have a better gameplan moving forward with the
limited time?
So I'm not going to be 21 whenI'm done, I'm going to be like
41 when I'm done.
So what's your thoughts?
Dr James (31:57):
sure you know what.
It's a brilliant question and Ihave a very clear answer to
that in my head.
But before I say I just want tocaveat.
What I'm about to say is thatthis is definitely not the right
path for everyone.
How can I say this as well?
It's not if we're going to seteverything else aside, like all
(32:20):
debates and quandaries and whatpeople how can I say this have
about.
You know, viewing thingsthrough this lens that I'm about
to espouse in just a secondpeople.
People think that when you talkabout the money side of
dentistry, that you, you can't.
There's, there's always goingto be a trade-off when it comes
to the ethics and morality sideof it.
Like, they think it's like oneor the other.
(32:40):
They think that those twothings are juxtapositioned or
opposing.
Actually, I think those thingscan be the same.
They can be the same.
If you ask me, right, like, ifyou're doing really high quality
treatment that's going to helpsomeone so that their mouth is
completely, fully rehabilitated,well, you're going to help them
to the highest standard youpossibly can.
(33:00):
Plus, you're going to makemoney off the back of it, right,
you're going to make more moneybecause you've given them more
value, right.
So I think that people uh,there is a big belief out there
that some people hold, that theythink that when you talk about
the money side of dentistry, orit's immediately against, yeah,
it's just that you have tosacrifice ethics when you do
(33:22):
that, which is just not true, ifyou ask me, right.
So so, in that spirit,proceeding in that fit, what I
would do if it was me is I wouldvery.
First goal, okay, is to becomeshit hot at dentistry as an
associate.
Yeah, like, really good.
First priority is investing incourses, right, to get you to
(33:43):
that level.
Right, it's the clinical stuff,but it's also how to
communicate it too.
That's the side that peopledon't recognize, how important
it is.
Yeah, high grossing associate,then you have cash flow.
Then, when you are the highgrossing associate which is
amazing then all of a sudden,then you can start to invest in
accounts.
Invest in accounts, yeah, now,if you want to be a high
(34:07):
grossing associate and continueat that level forever, fine,
you'll probably have a greatlife and you'll be able to put
that's a great way to be.
There's lots of people that Isee who are like 35 and
millionaires through doing that.
Fine, you know, because theyput their money in an isa, or
some of them got lucky withbitcoin and stuff like that.
You know it's possible, like itis completely possible, right,
(34:27):
and that's a nice life, right.
And then if someone wants to, asyou say, open a dental practice
because they want to have alifestyle where it's
associate-led, easier said thandone.
It's not easy to do, it isdefinitely really hard, right,
but at least you have some skinin the game for that possible
(34:47):
reality.
You have to open a dentalpractice, right, like?
You have to take on the risk, Iguess.
Basically, then, the fact thatyou're now a high-grossing
associate means that when you'reworking in your dental practice
and your dental practice needsthe lifeblood of business, which
is cash that you can step inand do that quite well, you can
also.
(35:08):
You also have the cash flow toget good team members.
You also have the cash flow toget good associates as well and
pay them high margins to keepthem in place and invest in the
dental practice, and then,eventually, you can hopefully
get it to the stage where itruns itself a little bit more,
and in order to do that, I would.
Then the next level is investingin the skills of business, the
business of dentistry and thethings that knowing how
(35:30):
dentistry works from a businessperspective, but also knowing
little random things that peopledon't know, like meta ads and
stuff like that, like some ofthe, some of the principles I
see out there are killing it.
Know how meta ads work becausethey went and learned how to do
it.
Or like google ppc and stufflike that.
Right, I don't even know whyppc works, right, I don't know
how google works.
I've never used it, right, butI was considering myself, okay,
(35:51):
at meta ads, um, they can bevery good, they can be very
useful.
I think that's a key skill forbusiness, right, they're very
clever.
Mark zuckerberg right, he madethis thing that's not like a
cornerstone of everybody'sbusiness, right, like if you
want to elevate your business,you have to use his business and
that's why he's so clever,right?
Um, so, anyway, where were we?
(36:13):
So that would be, that would bethe, the roadmap for me.
Basically, now, don't get mewrong, those are just things to
aim for, easier said than done,right?
But that is, of course, in myhead.
People might agree with me,they might disagree with me.
I'm speaking from the heart.
That's what I think, uh, and ifwe're looking at it purely from
(36:33):
the point of view of finances.
For me, that's the quickestpath that I observed.
I did myself in part, uh, andthen, since having a million
billion training conversationswith other dentists who've done
these sorts of things over theyears, you pick up even more
things.
You know what I mean, uh.
So, yeah, that's the routeright there, high grossing
associate, and everything flowsfrom there.
(36:54):
And, by the way, or?
Naveed (36:56):
just do high grossing associate oh, see this, now
you're gonna really get me rightbecause people, you said it,
you said, you said 35billionaire and all of a sudden
me and everyone else went right.
Screw the practice.
Dr James (37:09):
I'm doing this well, you can listen, as in a you know
, um, if you're earning reallywell as an associate and you
just compound your money in aniso with some bitcoin, it's not,
it's, it can happen, right?
Listen, I'm not sayingeverybody should buy bitcoin.
I'm definitely not saying that.
I'm just saying that that's anexample of a method some people
have used.
You could probably just useyour isa or your pension and be
(37:30):
a millionaire if you have reallyhigh cash flow and reinvest it
all into some sort of uh, globalequities fund that does well
and you have a few lucky years.
You know what I mean.
I'm not.
Everything I say is notfinancial advice.
Just want to say that again onthis podcast.
I'm just talking about possiblemethods.
Just get my little disclaimerin there.
But yes, anyway, you don't evennecessarily have to be a high
(37:53):
grossing associate to do that.
It just helps, right.
All I'm saying is that if youstack all these things that I've
just talked about, you'regiving yourself the greatest
chance possible.
That's all I'm saying.
Saying, right, you don't haveto do all of them.
Maybe you just do some of themor one or two, often right, and
you can probably do quite well.
Naveed (38:11):
But I really, I'm actually really glad you asked
me that question, because I'venever said that before in a
podcast like what do you knowwhat I always feel like, you
know, when people come on, notjust not just on you know your
side of things, but justgenerally Everything just seems
so red tape man.
People just don't want to talkabout real life stuff.
Because I'm not saying you, Imean, you've come out quite
(38:34):
clearly just giving us a goodexample, non-financial
information or advice here Again, just disclaimer.
But I think people always getworried to A ask the question
because they don't want to beperceived as a certain person
and be the host, doesn't want toever say anything, because they
say well, I don't want to crossthe limits here, but we need
that.
I think the layman and thepeople that are listening, and
(38:54):
myself included, we just we comeon these things, we listen to
these things, we actually wantadvice, we want info.
Right, we're not just sittingthere trying to listen to things
.
We listen to nonstop.
We can find on TikTok peoplejust saying things within the
limits.
We need that little bit of apush, little bit of advice,
little bit of a recommendationor a suggestion, without being
forced or coerced into it, andthat in itself can actually
(39:16):
start the journey into success,because unless we get it from
someone else, it's usually.
I don't think it catalyzes theprocess.
Enough does it.
So I want to say, on my behalfand probably on behalf of
everyone listening thank you forbeing honest, Thank you for
having an opinion and not justsitting on the fence and saying
screw it.
I want to give the playbookanswer that everyone else gives
(39:37):
and be diplomatic about this,because I think we've had enough
of it and we need more voiceslike yourself that are a bit
unapologetic and come fromexperience, that actually trying
to help people out, because wedon't have enough of that.
Dr James (39:48):
So, seriously, thanks, man, really, really appreciate
that well, listen, that's reallykind, you know, and thank you
for that.
I think that when you kind ofjust tell the real, real of
what's out there, that, how canI say it?
It's because there's so muchcrap and like scammy stuff,
right, that it's there'spotential that you can be tarred
with that brush as well.
Yeah, and that's definitely not.
(40:11):
I'm that's the point ofdentistry.
Invest is to say, right, okay,there are some people out there
who've done really well that youcan't, you can't deny that,
like they exist, right.
So what have they done?
That's all we're doing.
We're documenting that, right,and yeah, if you know it exists,
there must be a way.
So if you're cynical aboutevery single method that you
hear, perhaps you're tarringsome of the really good stuff
(40:33):
with the same brush, right, butthat it kind of circles back to
what I was saying earlier.
That's why having some knowledgein how money works really helps
, because you can tell what'sreal and what isn't real.
Right, and what came out of mymouth just then is like the
realest real.
That's, that's what.
I've met these people and spoketo them and done this stuff to
(40:54):
a degree myself, uh as well.
Uh, that, that for me, that isthe best method.
And if I could go, if I could goback okay, you want to know
definitively that this is howmuch I believe in what and what
I said, and dentistry invest andwhat I do.
If I could go back and tellmyself when I was 25, right, and
go to like the pub with thatguy and tell himself over some
(41:16):
evenings, right, I'd be like,right, this is the roadmap, just
do these things.
You mightn't even understandwhat these things are right now.
You might.
You might know what they are,but you don't.
We don't fully have the sameconcepts as to what they are.
But just keep this, put it onyour wall and just figure out
what this stuff means.
And this is the map right here.
That's genuinely what I wouldsay.
(41:37):
God, strike me down that'samazing, man, honestly.
Naveed (41:42):
And the thing is this is this is a perfect way to
actually circle back, as yousaid, to that first point
retiring at 21.
And we discussed can you do itand maintain it?
And I think it's so importantthat having knowledge and, as
you quite rightly said, havingthe experience of making the
money and then using it and thenlosing it and then rebuilding
it these are such importantfactors to have if you actually
(42:04):
want to be wealthy and again,getting that information from
the likes of yourself andpersonal experience.
I think being too, for example,investing in your eyes too
early, is a bad thing.
I think being rich too early,in my opinion, can be a bad
thing as well if you don't havethe right people around you, the
right experiences, etc.
(42:24):
So you know, getting gettingthat kind of insight from you,
then circling back to thebeginning, I think that's that's
.
That's such a a beautiful wayof like rounding things off in
it.
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