May 22, 2025 • 45 mins
You can download your FREE report on how you can avoid financial mistakes as a dentist using the link just here >>> dentistswhoinvest.com/podcastreport
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Why leave the safety of associate life for the chaos of practice ownership? For Dr Zain Remy, it wasn’t about money. It was about regaining clinical freedom and practising on his own terms.
In this refreshingly honest episode, Zain shares the highs and lows of buying his first practice. From battling outdated stock and patient misunderstandings to managing the emotional weight of leadership, he opens up about the real journey behind the scenes. You’ll also hear how building a personal brand on TikTok, Facebook and Instagram helped him attract the right patients and professional opportunities.
Whether you’re planning to buy a practice or already navigating ownership, Zain’s story is full of valuable insights. You can also connect with his supportive community in the Facebook group Diary of Dental Practice Owners for ongoing weekly discussions.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr James (00:00):
What's up everyone?
Another episode of Dentists WhoInvest podcast.
Today I'm joined by Mr ZainRemy, a relatively recent
practice owner, and we've gotsome wisdom to share for people
who are voyaging down that path,and maybe some words of wisdom
for people who are consideringit or imminently about to embark
on it as well.
Zain, how are you?
Dr Zain (00:18):
I'm great James.
Thank you for taking the call,big fan.
Yeah, I'm really lookingforward to sharing um my journey
with yourself and everyonelistening and hopefully, um,
it'd be great to kind of connectwith, with those embarking on
that similar journey, thinkingabout embarking that similar
(00:38):
journey, and those that arealready on that journey
themselves.
So, yeah, I'm looking forwardto kind of like hashing through
a few things with you andhelping out let's do that.
Dr James (00:48):
And you know what the reason I invited Zain on?
One of the reasons I invitedZain on was because he's created
a facebook community for thisas well.
Zain, can we shout that outright at the start and then
we'll shout it out right again?
Because I'm keen to support,because dental practice owners
they need help, right, they need, they need friends.
Yeah, they need love yeah, ofcourse, um.
Dr Zain (01:09):
So just recently, um, initially I wanted to kind of
share um this, uh, this facebookgroup for um, specifically for
practice owners, but it's kindof developed into a group where
I'm reaching out to associatesthat also want to kind of follow
that same journey.
So the Facebook community groupthat I've set up is the diary
(01:31):
of dental practice owners loveit, yeah, love it.
Dr James (01:36):
Amazing, okay, cool.
Uh, I really like thesepodcasts because these are very
much we're speaking from thehead, but we're also speaking
from the heart about a lot ofthis stuff, because it's what
works to be a dental practiceowner, but it's also what worked
for Zain as well, becausethere's so much variation out
(01:56):
there.
Right like two practice ownerscan go about it in a completely
different way and both succeed.
That's like the cool thingabout business, if you ask me,
because it's what works, butit's also what works for you or
me or for anybody, and that'swhy I really enjoy these
particular podcasts, becauseit's as much about that as it is
about your story.
So proceeding on that foot isin.
(02:17):
If we could talk a little bitabout yourself, just to get a
little bit of background, youwere telling me you qualified in
2016 from dentistry, right?
Dr Zain (02:24):
yes, I qualified, uh in 2016 from kings uh in guys,
london, um, and I am an avidtraveler and I like working out
of my comfort zone.
So I thought, you know what,let me take myself as far up the
northeast as I can, um, tonewcastle, um, and see what it's
(02:45):
about.
If I didn't like it, I wouldhave always sort of moved back
down, you know, and that's wheremy journey started as an FD in
2016.
But I never went with a mindsetthat I wanted to own a practice
or anything like that.
I just wanted to like kind ofbe humble.
I wanted to kind of developmyself, my own credentials as
(03:05):
well, and see, see where, wherethe journey takes me.
And so I mean, should Icontinue going on to the going
through the journey process?
Dr James (03:14):
yeah, you know it's interesting.
I just wanted to jump in andsay one thing that that kind of
piqued my interest there, thatyou were talking you didn't
actually want to own a practice,but no, you do, and there's
lots of people who feel that way, right, but yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, I'm interested, I'mintrigued.
Dr Zain (03:29):
So, yeah, I did my FD in Morpeth, which is a small
town in the northeast, and Iluckily stayed on there because
I kind of liked the family typeof independent sort of feel and
I felt quite at home and my ESwas really cool, really
supportive.
I learned a hell of a lot fromhim and the scheme itself was
(03:51):
bloody awesome as well, and soshout out to the north scheme.
Um, anyway, um, I stayed on foranother year for maternity uh,
covering someone's maternity andthen I embarked on a journey,
um, in a corporate, because Ilooked on, indeed, and there was
literally nothing going.
It was my first opportunity totry and find or sort of delve
into the realms of looking for ajob.
(04:13):
So I was really super scared,um, and you can ask anyone, you
can get all of the advice thatyou wanted, um.
But I kind of took that leapand jumped, and it was because,
at the time, I got sucked intosigning for corporate, which I
won't mention any names, um, butI had a golden handshake, so I
(04:36):
was like, great, I'm gonna get apot of cash.
That's because I was actuallygonna learn.
I was gonna kind of, um, putsome money down on a flat as
well, which again was my firstexperience of buying something.
It didn't work out.
However, I can take positivesfrom it as well.
So I actually worked in a reallylike non-affluent area where it
(05:00):
was very much like NHS drillfill extraction and I was
looking around at all theassociates around me and I was
thinking, hmm, why is it thatthese guys have sold their
practices but they still lovedoing the same sort of stuff?
And, again, there's nothing badabout doing the nitty gritty
NHS things.
But I just for myself, my ownpersonal thing, I just thought
(05:22):
to myself that this cannot be itfor dentistry.
There has to be more than this,um, and I was actually like
losing my passion a little bitand drive and I started not
enjoying it and I was evencontemplating like not dentistry
was not for me, you know, andthis was only like a couple of
years in, two, three, threeyears in.
(05:44):
So this is when I thought youknow what, screw this, I'm going
to like enroll in a course withSmile Academy.
So I don't know if you knowthose guys, kish and Jin Kish
and Jin.
Yeah, I've seen them aroundGreat characters, great set of
guys, and so I actually embarkedon that journey.
I left my corporate practiceand moved into a mixed practice,
(06:05):
and it was at this point whereI was trying to get the cases
for my restorative diploma, thatI nearly got fired.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, because basically I wasscanning every case because I
really eagerly wanted to developmyself, but then I realized
that these guys had a businessto run as well.
Oh, yeah, that thing, yeah,yeah, develop myself, um, but
(06:36):
then I realized that these guyshad a business to run as well.
So, um, I I remember, like Istill remember it today and I've
still got that box of materialsthat I carried around in this
art box of all the privatematerials, and it never sat
right in my head where I wasbringing it out for a private
case and then putting it outputting it away for an NHS case
and this for me, um, I wasstarting to develop my own
values and thinking that, do youknow what?
I think I want to do thingsproperly, by the standards, um,
(06:58):
and take my time over treatments.
And that is why, essentially, Igot pulled in by the principals
and they said look, Zain,you're gonna have to do your
crown preps in like 40 minutes.
And that's where there was alittle bit of a risk and I was
like it ain't happening.
So I kind of then kind of movedon.
So I then sort of applied forjobs in various private
practices, you know, because Ibuilt my portfolio, my clinical
(07:21):
portfolio up, my portfolio, myclinical portfolio up, and so I
had a few cases and and I builtsort of my, a little bit of a
brand, which was my social mediabrand dr zayn remy and and I I
realized there was a niche inthis, by the way, and so I
actually had locked andconnected with a few companies,
in particular I don't know ifyou've heard of zima, who won
(07:42):
the dental industry awards lastyear, and so it's really cool.
They've got a device and thatthey use that.
Basically, please retainers,I'm not going to go into that
anyway um, I found, as a dentist, I was able to build a brand
and the reason why this isrelevant is this this kind of
helped with kind of buildingthose connections, as I then
embarked in sort of dentalpractice ownership later on down
(08:04):
the line.
So I thought do you know whatAll of these dentists are
putting their portfolio online?
When you look at some of thetitles that are presented by
dentists, I don't know if you'veseen and they're great, the
quality of work is amazing, someof the stuff that these guys do
.
But you've got to understandwhy you're doing it, why you're
using and capitalizing onmarketing, such as social media.
(08:27):
So for me, I wanted theengagement to attract more
patients and it then kind of.
I then ended up going intodifferent sort of interviews
with different private practices.
Like I said before, I hadbarriers in a mixed practice
where I was trying to kind of dothings with the time that I
needed with the materials thatobviously was embedded into the
(08:48):
prices, and I've actually thenworked at another private
practice again I'm not going tomention many names, of course,
but I was sort of over promisedbut undersold when I got there
and things like materials.
So this is where I came to asplit decision Do I either go
(09:11):
and travel away from theNortheast, go back down South,
as I originally planned on doing, working at somewhere like
Wimple Street or something likethat, and find the practice that
I want to work for that sharesthe same values and ethos I want
to work for that shares thesame values and ethos, or do I
buy what I want to kind ofdevelop into a place where I'm
happy and working in the waythat I want to work, and at this
(09:34):
time I'd my wife was pregnant,okay, so I was taking a lot of
risks.
Let's do all the research firstand try and get this practice
and develop it in the way that Iwant to develop it and that
kind of puts me nicely into thatstep of purchasing the practice
I like that, so it came fromhere.
Dr James (09:54):
It came from the heart right 100.
You know two, two things I justlike to point out there,
recurring themes.
Whenever I speak to principalsand practice owners, the first
one I would say is, yeah, itcomes from the head.
It's a business decision.
But to make you actually followthrough, to give you that
energy, to give you that passion, it really helps when there's a
reason behind it, like your why, almost, and it usually comes
(10:17):
from personal experience,because there's almost part of
you that just feels like there'sa wrong that has to be righted
in the world and your businessis your vehicle to do that,
which I really love and it is sotrue and that's actually
there's a total parallel therewith denison invest.
I think there's so many thingsthat could be improved about
people's perception of money andalso how they go about whenever
it comes to the investment sideof things like that was
(10:38):
something that I learned throughmy own voyage, but we'll save
that for another day.
That I'm sure I spoke aboutthat another podcast before
which and it's not the point oftoday, so we'll just swerve
right by that, but it is truefor business owners.
And then the other thing wassocial media.
It just really helps, doesn'tit?
Having a brand and a personalbrand.
I think it really helps toclarify what a brand basically
(11:00):
is and that's just basically howmany people have a positive
perception of you is there onedefinition of a brand.
Dr Zain (11:06):
Well, I can say this soon.
So if you move aside from thatand think as a dentist um, am I
able to like swear a little biton this?
I don't know, no we can speakthere.
Dr James (11:19):
There have been expletives, uh, at, you know, on
the dentist podcast, before wehaven't got cancelled.
Dr Zain (11:25):
Yeah, we haven't all right okay, I'll, I'll hold back
it we can have, we can have,some we can yeah okay.
So look, at the end of the day,right as a dentist and I found
this out now, and I've come torealize this as a business owner
, as a principal that as you gothrough the journey from fd all
the way up to wherever you arein your career now, and the
(11:47):
amount of nurses and people thatyou've interacted with,
dentistry is a small world okay.
And it just so happens that thenurses that I went on the
journey with, um in differentpractices that I embarked on,
those nurses ended up workingfor me because of the positive
ethos and the relationship Ibuilt up and how I was able to
(12:08):
do things.
So it's just very mindful to toto.
It's not just the patient base,but who you cheese off, you
know, I mean along the way itcan actually come to bite you
later on down the line.
And so I just thought I'dmention that because I literally
literally have felt that alongthe way and I'm so glad that I
(12:31):
have more positive, I've beenmore positive and have those
positive interactions with myteam and people that I've worked
with the negatives because ofthis situation that I'm in now.
Dr James (12:42):
Hell, yeah, man, yeah, do everything, everything you
possibly can to maintainrelationships with people, and
you know, sometimes it isnecessary to.
Well, here's how I heardsomebody explain you have to
preserve, you know there has tobe some level of you surrounding
yourself with the right people.
And I heard someone say oncethey were like love everybody,
(13:05):
but some people you've got tolove from a distance, right, and
I thought that was a reallynice way of thinking about that,
about it subconsciously, youknow, because, yeah, you should,
you should try to keepeverybody on board is what I'm
saying where possible, yeah, Iagree.
Dr Zain (13:19):
Going back to the social media side of things, so
this is again where thepositivity helps a little bit as
well, because, obviously,building up the affiliations
with certain companies.
So, on the social media, Itouched on the fact that I built
up relationships with the likesof zima, um and um and boutique
and things like that, you know,and this has all helped with um
(13:40):
, um, with with where now I'mable to kind of like lock horns
with certain companies and whowho share the same values, the
positive values and things andenvironmental values, and that's
who.
When we do sort of sellproducts or kind of um or kind
of work with brands, we kind oflook very closely at what their,
(14:01):
what their, their message is aswell.
Um, and this came all from mypersonal brand in terms of what
I was trying to achieve.
So, going back to the originalquestion, in terms of free
marketing, because that's what Ivalue as what I, what I put it
down as I put myself on, becauseI couldn't capitalize on every
single um, um on every singleplatform.
(14:23):
I just didn't have enough timewhilst doing dentistry.
So, um, what I did was Ifocused on TikTok, I focused on
Facebook and I focused onInstagram.
Um, and TikTok grew and that'swhere I got a few of the
affiliations and I wanted tokind of do a lot more.
Um, I wanted to reach out tothe general public and give sort
(14:44):
of like really cool, engaging,silly, stupid content.
You know things like for me,like tom cruise smile, you know
how, like it's not symmetrical,he's got that tooth in the
middle of his head, right,exactly.
Dr James (14:56):
Yeah, can I look?
Can I look you up just whilewe're talking?
Dr Zain (15:00):
yeah, yeah, what is it?
Zain, Zain remy on tiktok yeah,dr Zain remy on tiktok yeah
cool, I'll have a little look.
But yes, you were saying tomcruise, yeah, and then like even
stuff like, for example, callumwilson, newcastle football
player, and it got re-implantedback in.
It was just like crazy stufflike that from a dental
perspective, just to get as muchengagement from various
(15:20):
different groups onto my socialmedia.
And I just want to like addsomething here and say that I'm
no guru on social media.
I'm still learning, okay, butit's just trying to kind of do
things that are a little bitdifferent.
But for me, I wanted to createcontent that allowed me to
engage with the general publicand was able to then turn into
(15:43):
capitalizing patients that wouldthen come in, because
ultimately that is the brand.
And when you go and then sitdown with a principal and you're
like negotiating your split.
Dr James (15:54):
and you know something that blew my mind about social
media and I know on the part onthe podcast we do often talk
about social media and how itcan help and we, we reflect and
we, I suppose, kind of shoot thebreeze on it fairly often.
But there's a reason for that.
It's because it really can helppeople so much in their career.
And one big thing that shiftedfor me whenever I started my
(16:14):
social media journey, I didn'tpost on Facebook for five years
and then one day I went toFacebook true story.
One day I went to Facebook andI typed in Dennis who, invest,
create group, right, literallyright.
It was just overnight, and thenI started posting every day,
and that was five years ago,right.
So I had five years off, fiveyears like intense social media.
(16:35):
And I guess one thing that heldme back from doing that which I
now know not to be true, onlybecause I actually made that
group and I saw it from theother side was that I thought
that you would only actuallyreally be able to make impact
and create something that'sbeneficial whenever you have
50,000 followers or 100,000.
But no, the good stuff startshappening when you literally
(16:56):
have 10 or 100.
Dr Zain (16:58):
Yeah, 100%.
And you know, like things arealways shifting on social media
and I really like kind of payattention to these different
small mini podcasts and thingslike that, and it's all about
the engaging content and beingthe first person to as a dentist
I specifically wanted to targetdentists here is that a lot of?
(17:20):
A lot of not posting and thisis me speaking to other dentists
as well is the confidence ofwhat other people will think.
Oh yeah, okay, the issue thatyou have is that these dentists
because I was one of thosedentists think that hold on,
what if I get judged by otherdentists and I'm gonna look like
an absolute idiot and myconfidence is going to get?
(17:43):
My confidence is up here, butnow my confidence is going to be
completely sort of crushed andI'm not going to post anything
else and that's the fear.
But ultimately you've got tokind of.
You've got to kind of set agoal of why you're doing it, and
for me, the goal was I wantedto get patients and what
(18:05):
patients want are, um, are white, and if you've got basic white
teeth, metal to white teeth.
So for me it was like right, mygoal is to engage with as many
of the general public aspossible, and if I get slated by
other dentists I probably would.
I don't care, because thatparticular post has got me three
(18:26):
patients that are actuallycoming into me, coming into the
practice and booking in withmyself and booking in with
myself.
So really what I'm trying tosay is it's just trying to kind
of be to break away from thatand be the first and be the
first and to sort of boost thatconfidence and try and take the
first step.
That's what I'm trying to do Ithink it's important.
Dr James (18:48):
A really good mental frame is that everything has a
price right.
So posting and having massiveimpact has a price right.
So posting and having massiveimpact has a price.
You might get the odd negativecomment, although I have to say
I'm stunned by how rarely itactually happens in reality.
If ever, yeah, that happens,but the price of you not doing
that is potentially the price ofyou never fulfilling your
(19:09):
dreams as well.
And to me, when you frame itthat way around, I'm like, wow,
shit, all of a sudden it lookseasy to me to just go ahead and
I'll take a few negativecomments versus feeling
unfulfilled all day long.
Depends on someone's goals.
I'm assuming that everyone hasthe same goals as me.
Perhaps they do, perhaps theydon't, I don't know.
I'm speaking from myperspective.
Anyway, anywho, anywho, anywhopractice.
So you opened a practice andyes social media helped you.
(19:34):
Will you leverage social mediato help you set up the practice
right?
Dr Zain (19:37):
yeah, it did, but, um, so that was one like sort of
like aspect, but, um, the themajority of the aspect really
was a lot of pre-planning um andum.
You know, like for me, if I wasto ask one of the dentists
again, I was one of thosedentists where do you start with
all the research?
Um, I really wanted to.
(19:59):
I, I sat down and on a piece ofpaper I literally wrote down
what I wanted to achieve.
Okay, so, number one I wantedto be able to practice and do
the dentistry that I wanted todo, so spend the time that I
wanted to spend and be able todo things like full math rehabs
in a place where, okay, I mightmake a loss, but that's because
(20:21):
I own the practice, I have mymaterials, so have full clinical
freedom.
That was number one.
Number two I didn't like this isnot.
This is I don't want peoplethinking that I'm slaying the
NHS or anything like that.
Okay, but I didn't want to workseeing 50 patients a day or 40
patients a day squeezed in.
I was literally stressed ashell doing that and I just
(20:43):
couldn't give the same care andquality Me personally, not
speaking for anyone else.
I just couldn't do that.
I couldn't work that way.
So that was number two.
And, of course, with anything,I wanted to have my own vision
and strategy, which is againsomething that I actually
prepared because I needed thatto be able to provide that to
(21:03):
the banks to get, even if it waslike a five year plan of what I
wanted to achieve for my vision.
Ok, so they were the threethings, and then I started off
by um, I don't know if I canname drop companies here, I'm
not sure if I'm allowed to dothat, but yeah, yeah, so I
started off with um.
Like I really um got on reallywell with this guy called
(21:27):
christian at lily heads.
It was a broker, um, and Iremember at this point, um, I'd
actually presented a few sort ofpractice stuff to him and said,
look, can you?
I don't know where to start.
I don't even know what.
I do not even know what anEBITDA is.
So I literally said, just hereit is, show me what I need.
(21:48):
What am I looking for?
Like that's profitability, thisis what I want.
I don't want an NHS practicewith a small list, I want a
private practice and I want tobe able to try and kind of um
grow it.
So we hash.
There was like literally two,three.
It took me a year, right, tokind of get the right practice.
Um, looking at the figures andI even like I I was thinking of,
(22:11):
do I go in partnership withsomeone else and do I go into a
three-way partnership withsomeone else on the business?
Yeah, so definitely don't dothat, because to come out of
that you have to also look at acontingency if something does
happen or you don't get on, andit's much harder selling off
your third share.
So anyway, so yeah, so wehashed out and I found a
(22:32):
practice where it had.
It was a Demplan Care.
I don't know if you know whatDemplan Care is.
Dr James (22:39):
Yeah, demplan Care is the one where they pay a
subscription and then they getis their exams covered and a
discount from the treatment, oris it they get everything?
They get everything, don't theyeverything?
Dr Zain (22:50):
everything, it's that so, um, I remember, um, speaking
to, I paid barry alton a littlebit of a consult because I want
, I really liked what he's doingas well and I really wanted to
kind of get a bit of knowledgefrom him, and he basically said,
Zain, take this practice as ared flag, do not do it.
Because basically, um, thispractice on den plan care, um,
(23:14):
you don't have any appreciationfor your chair time or remakes
because, as you just said, therethey have different bandings
based on how many fillingsthey've had set by Demplan.
So it's just set by little tickbox exercises.
So you don't know, there couldbe loads of unsupervised neglect
because there was no hygienistin this place as well.
Neglect because there was nohygienist in this place as well.
(23:38):
And however, um, I I wanted totake the risk, um, because I
knew what I was prepared andwhat I could actually do.
And, trust me, if I knew howbad it was when I got there,
maybe I would have not done it.
And I'm glad I actually didlaunch myself in there because I
changed it to exactly what youjust said a maintenance plan,
which was, which was and I losta hell of a lot of patients
(24:00):
doing it as well and so I tookthe risk and the plunge and I
took calculated risks and but Ipurchased a dem plan care
practice and turned it into apractice plan practice because I
wanted to create plans that wasevidence-based and also
(24:21):
appreciated the chair time, thehourly rate um that we wanted
for, let's say, dentist,hygienic, therapist, whatever um
, and that sort of that sort ofwas my inroads um into getting
into into dental practiceownership.
I then basically christian thenhelped me sort of secure um
(24:43):
funds um and it was quite easyto be honest with you um
actually securing it for throughlloyd um because they
apparently are one of the mainsort of banks that actually
invest in dental practices orloan out and it's quite a safe
(25:04):
bet in their eyes.
So it's not as hard as youthink.
You just need someone that willrun the figures and work for
you.
But definitely come up with astrategy as well, like I know
that sometimes you might strayaway from the strategy, but I
had like a five-year little ministrategy of what I want to
achieve.
You know what my business corevalues are, which we have, you
(25:27):
know, sustainability, et cetera,because it kind of keeps you
grounded as well when you'renavigating through all of the
changes.
Dr James (25:35):
And that helped as well a little bit to give a bit
of context to the banks you knowwhat, on the whole vision for
your business side of things, Inever did that at the very start
and a part of me, part of me,thought to myself what is this
fluff?
I don't need this, let's justget it done right.
But it actually really helpscalibrate you and I've.
(25:57):
I've come full.
I've done a 180 now about threeyears and I did that exercise.
I read a really great book.
I don't know if you've heard ofit.
It's called traction by ginowickman.
I heard of it.
Dr Zain (26:08):
I'm gonna take a note of that bloody brilliant book is
so great.
Dr James (26:12):
it really complements uh, you heard of the e-myth,
michael gerber, all about allabout making processes in your
business.
Anyway, they I really like thee-myth is, you know it's more
spoken off.
Uh, the reason I brought thee-myth up was because it
actually some people may be ableto relate to that in the
audience.
And this book, traction,complements the e-myth perfectly
(26:33):
, like they should be the samebook, like volume one, volume
one and volume two, if you askme.
But yeah, anyway, traction,gino Wickman, all about it talks
about this thing called theentrepreneurial operating system
and it's all about, yeah, buthow do you make decisions unless
you actually have a vision foryour business?
Like you know, something onlymakes sense relative to whether
(26:54):
or not it takes you further awayfrom your or away from your
objective.
But if you haven't actuallydefined the goal or the
objective, then nothing actuallyreally makes any sense because
it's all relative.
And I see, I completely seethat now and I probably did a
lot of spinning my wheels when Icould have been more concise
and purposeful, and it soundsthat you relate to that from
(27:14):
what you're saying more conciseand purposeful, and it sounds
that you relate to that fromwhat you're saying.
Dr Zain (27:17):
Yeah, a hundred percent , and you know you can pre-plan
everything.
But trust me, if you don't doany pre-planning, then you've
got nothing to kind of to fallback on, because whatever
pre-planning you've done iscompletely different, and you'll
hear about that as soon as I'veembarked on the challenges that
I faced when I went into dentalpractice ownership.
(27:37):
It's not what you think.
Dr James (27:39):
um, there's a lot more you know what, maybe a
brilliant opportunity right nowto segue into that, because this
is the stuff that's going toreally extra super help people
right.
Dr Zain (27:47):
So this is my personal experience when I actually so
okay, um, I was locuming at thetime to get a little bit of
funds together you know dayrates and whatnot um, because,
um, it took a little bit longerto actually purchase this
practice.
So I did something that was alittle bit different to the norm
.
I put warranty claims inbecause, remember what I said
(28:10):
about the den plan care practiceI already knew, based on
locking horns with the likes ofyou know people that I've
mentioned that um, what I wasexpecting, even clinically,
where treatments were done veryquickly, etc.
Right, so I put warranty claimsin and I actually used this uh,
this is woodlands, they'rereally good um, um, and it took
(28:31):
me ages to negotiate and sitdown and negotiate with the
owners and say, look, this iswhat I'm prepared to do, but I
want a 12 year warranty on anyfailed treatments or failed
issues with the building andthings like that.
Ok, which actually has saved myass because I'm actually going
(28:52):
through that process now.
My ass because I'm actuallygoing through that process now.
Okay, but I'll come to thatanyway.
When I, when I took over thepractice, my goal was, I really,
really wanted to be thisprincipal that kept all my staff
on and and had amazing patientsthat were singing my praise,
you know, and all the the ownersthat were like saying great
(29:13):
Zain coming in, he brings thisto the table, we're going to be
a happy family.
But it didn't happen like that,um, and because I came with a
very different angle andapproach where um, even my
dentistry, um again, was verymuch like I wanted to do things
by the book, um, I wanted mynurses to follow the same um,
(29:34):
same things, things by the book.
I wanted my nurses to followthe same thing, things on the
rubber dam, etc.
And I was prepared to sit downand, you know, with these
principles to say, look, this ishow things are.
I'm happy to sit down with youguys and kind of like adapt a
little bit of your dentistry andhelp you and guide you through
this.
But all I want from you guys isjust to kind of like, not bad
(29:58):
mouth me and make you know, makeme make me look decent, because
obviously you guys are retiringsoon, um, so it'd be nice for
you to kind of me, to kind oftake that reins and keep my
patients intact, because that'swhat I paid for the goodwill.
Okay, um, ultimately, um, cutthe long story short because
(30:19):
it's gone for ages.
Um, in the end, um, I never, Inever got rid of any of the
nurses and I never got rid ofany of the owners.
(33:06):
So yeah, I, I had everythingagainst me and you know, at the
same time I literally, likeliterally, my wife was having a
baby.
Oh, my goodness.
So I was going through all of it.
Dr James (33:20):
Business ain't easy, bro, business ain't easy.
I think it's fair to say.
Dr Zain (33:24):
Exactly, but you know, fast forward what, from October
23 to where I'm at now, I've gota practice manager who started
off as a nurse, who I retainedfrom.
From there she's now mypractice manager.
Going through that journey I'vehad I have, like, new reception
team, I have new dentists, Ihave a therapist who actually
(33:50):
does therapy in terms of breadand butter and fillings, so I
use them as a therapist, not ahygienist, um, and I've got out
and out hygienist and, um, yeah,so I wrote an article actually,
uh, with dentistrycouk, um, andI think we're going to be doing
another follow-up on thehygiene therapy model, which is
quite relevant now becausethat's actually articles that
(34:11):
are actually being put on.
But that's changed a little bit.
Um, and this just shows you howmuch, how willing I am to take
that risk, um, but it has paidoff and I'm lucky it's paid off
because I had a lot of drop-offsat the beginning, um, and I
look at, I look at my drop-offsand I have looked at my
drop-offs and I've gone home tomy wife who actually believe or
(34:34):
not, is the finance side ofthings.
No, no clue about dentistry.
She's not dental background.
However, she goes Zain.
What the hell is happening here?
Why are there's more?
Why are they?
She goes business concepts tohave money.
You need patience, right,because patients take your money
.
Why is it that this week you'vegot 18 patients not on the list
anymore?
(34:54):
And I'm trying to basicallyexplain to her like don't worry,
things are you know, they'reworking.
We've upped the out, we'veupped the fees and things like
that.
So I'm trying to kind of puther at ease, um, and put her
mind at ease.
But at the same time, I've justliterally just thought of it in
a positive way and what Ibelieve is that the value that I
(35:15):
bring in terms of the ethosthat I'm bringing, not only are
going to kind of kind of like bepart of the team that I've now
developed, but even the vibethat I get from patients coming
in from now to what, what theywere before like very negative.
I can literally see it withpatients that are coming through
(35:35):
the door that have actuallybought into the culture of what
I actually bring.
And it's so cool, it's so nicespeaking to these patients and
we've had a bit of a surgeryrevamp as well, and I've had to
do that very fast because I goback to the warranty claims that
(35:56):
I put in that saved my bacon.
It just so happens I've hadissues as well along the way
where plumbing has failed,shoddy workmanship has been done
as well, and that's where I'mat with the legal side of things
.
I've had to actually takefinance out to pay for all these
things and as a result, yeah,I've just ridden it with
(36:17):
positivity and you know, this iswhere I'm at today.
So I know I've kind of likereally fast track that.
I just didn't want to kind ofdwell into loaded detail.
I'm happy to go back on certainthings, but all I would say is
my main message from where I'm.
What I'm saying now is you'vejust got to kind of believe in
what you do and, and that's kindof what I live by at the moment
(36:40):
.
Dr James (36:40):
Boom, I love it, man, and it's it's.
It actually kind of reiteratesthe why the vision thing is so
important and why, it comingfrom the heart is so important
because sooner or later you'regonna get shit thrown at you.
If you start a business like itjust will happen.
Right, it happens at day one.
Dr Zain (37:01):
Exactly.
Dr James (37:01):
It's like the first minute, right, something is just
going to hit you in the facelike bam, because Elon Musk not
everybody is his fan, of course,but there's this saying that he
has, and he's like, if youthink about it, when you're the
CEO, all the worst problems findtheir way to you, because the
definition of being up here isthat the hard shit that
(37:23):
everybody can't deal with getsto you, right, so you're a
filter for all the nonsense,right, and listen, some people
thrive off it.
I actually like that.
I get a genuine big kick out ofif there's a really big problem
and we fix it, and it's like,yeah, we come up with some
really sick innovative solution,and I'm kind of getting a vibe
that that's you as well.
(37:44):
So it's what.
What I'm saying is it's.
It's just, if we can sharethese things with people, then
they know what the path lookslike and they can figure out if
they're, if this is somethingfor them or it's it's not for
them.
Zain, I'm gonna ask you aquestion, right, you go back and
talk to your younger self, justabout to embark upon practice
ownership, and he says, Zain,will it be worth it?
Is it worth it so far?
Dr Zain (38:06):
yes, even though, even though I go home every single
day and I have a moan not aboutmyself, because I do that to my
practice manager, and we hashthrough things and try and put
things in order because my staffare incredible right, they have
their own, they have their ownand they have their own like
headaches, um, but I go homeevery day, but then we work
(38:27):
through it.
I go home to my wife and I'malways sort of moaning about
certain things and I get scaredas well, I myself.
I wake up on, I wake up at theend of the week and all of a
sudden I'm like this business isgonna flop.
And then I, I go in on mondayand go do you know what?
No, it's not.
And I go through those boutsbecause, um, I I'm a real, real
(38:48):
fan of Stephen Bartlett on Diaryof CEO, hence the group name.
Okay, and um, he said and um,and this is a really, really
super, super cool thing that Ipicked up from his podcast is
that if you're not out of yourcomfort zone, if you don't feel
like you're out of your comfortzone, you're doing something
wrong.
Okay, and every single day, asa practice owner, I'm always out
(39:11):
of my comfort zone and thatjust shows you that I feel like
I'm growing because, as you justsaid there, you touched on it,
that, and you thrive on it andthat's how you grow and that's
how I have grown.
And I look back in october 23and I look back at where I'm at
now and do you remember all ofthose that sheet I told you
about of what have I achieved?
(39:31):
You know that sheet that I wentback and said that do I enjoy
doing dentistry?
Am I going to be in a practicewhere I'm able to go in every
day and love what I'm doing, youknow, and feel relaxed, because
that's what I feel like whenI'm actually doing dentistry,
because I'm doing it for theteam.
I can tick all of those off.
And but one thing I have learnedis and if I can reflect on it,
(39:52):
the most hardest thing for me ismanaging people because they
bring their own um again.
Going back to Dario ceo, as youcan tell, I'm a big fan.
Um, you have to almost maketheir problem your problem as a
ceo and you have to kind of.
If, for example, um someone hasa personal issue, you have to,
(40:16):
you have to be very much like umand I'm struggling with this.
I find it very difficult aswell because I have my own
problems, but you have to kindof like almost you know
empathise and delve into it,because obviously if they feel
crap at work, then it's going tospoil the productivity for you
and you want to be able to bethat boss that they can go to
(40:38):
and be very supportive as well,and that is something that I
would say I've learned and I'mstill learning, and that's a
real struggle for me and that'ssomething I would love to kind
of be better at.
Dr James (40:54):
Well, you know it's not easy, right, because you're
basically the emotional obelisk,right, and people, they cast
their emotions onto you and it'stough, you know.
But, as you say, there's anopportunity for personal growth
there, isn't it?
To be able to absorb it andreflect it back in a positive
way, which is not always easy,and listen, we can't always do
(41:17):
it, can we?
But that's what we're strivingfor.
You know what you were sayingearlier about the challenge side
of things, but that's whatwe're striving for.
What you were saying earlierabout the challenge side of
things, what I really like aboutrunning a company is it's like
you can just see everything thathappens is an opportunity for
growth, right, and that gets meexcited in that I would feel
like if I ever feel like thatprocess is not happening, then I
(41:40):
get bored so fast personally.
You know it's this horse I'mjust speaking from my
perspective like I actually geta buzz out of that now.
And there's there's a saying Ican't remember where I heard
this from, uh, but the saying isit was something along the
lines it was a business ownerand he was talking and he was
like how do you deal with thechallenges on running your
business?
And he said something along thelines of, yeah, but the bigger
(42:02):
the dragon, the stronger thehero, which I really like.
I'm fired up.
It's like, yeah, okay, it'sjust a big old dragon, right and
it's.
It's, it's there, it needs tobe conquered or vanquished or
whatever, right, so it just putsit on you.
It's like, yeah, but if I was,okay, you know, I can overcome
this.
I just have to work myself.
I just have to become that hero.
(42:23):
Yeah definitely.
Dr Zain (42:26):
You have to look at everything in a positive light
as well, like, I mean, I look atit.
There's a social media image Idon't know if you've seen it,
but there's this person taking atrain journey and this one
person sitting on opposite sidesis looking at to the right-hand
side there's like cliffs andthere's a wall, and the other
(42:49):
person is looking at like a nice, beautiful river and scenery.
Um, and it just it's exactlyeverything that you take, even
in your own personal life.
Right, that's what I look at isthat you always look at the
positives and it's like a puzzlethat you're trying to solve,
and for me, um, every day I goin, it's a fresh new puzzle.
Um, and and you said ityourself it's like, um, if every
(43:09):
day was the same, it'd beboring, and and I enjoy it
secretly, even though itstresses the hell out of me and
I probably have this much hairnow um, I think probably in a
year's time, your hairline islooking good mine it?
Dr James (43:27):
mine looks like it's receding, but what I?
Dr Zain (43:28):
have in my defense is.
Dr James (43:30):
It's been like this since I was 14, so I think we're
stable here for the moment, butum, it's funny, right, because
you know that meme that you'retalking about.
It's like you're on the bus andone side of the bus is really
shiny and bright right.
Then the other side is likereally gloomy and there's like
on the bus and one side of thebus is really shiny and bright
right.
Then the other side is likereally gloomy and there's like a
little bit of text below eachof the person yeah I saw.
I saw one once, uh, that wasdental related, that had that
(43:50):
meme and it was like the thesunny person was, uh, the sunny
side, this person on the sunnyside of the bus.
The text below them saidsomething along the lines of
when you think mb2s are reallyrare.
And then the gloomy side waswhen you realize 95 of upper
molars have mb2s and you're like, yeah, and that was definitely
(44:12):
me.
I was like, oh, another toothwithout an mb2 nice one, yeah I
thought it was like one in ahundred, but actually it's the
other way around like 99 havethem, you just have to find them
.
Anyway, we digress Zain wordsof wisdom.
There'll be some people outthere who are just about to
embark on the journey of owninga practice.
They'll be associates, or atleast they're thinking about it.
(44:34):
What would you say to them?
Dr Zain (44:36):
so I would say, uh, we touched on the facebook group.
I have right, uh, that I've setup, please, if you can.
It's called Diary of aPrincipal Owners.
If you join that group, that'sprobably a good fresh start,
because you get to lock hornswith other principals.
You know that you can learn offthem.
They can, you know, they cangive you a bit of advice.
So that would be my firststepping stone.
(44:59):
The second stepping stone islook at your own self.
Okay, are you happy as a dentalassociate?
Because it's not just it's notas easy as saying that I want to
own a practice because you'regoing to have to have everything
else that comes with it.
Okay, so, aside, if you'regoing to go in it for the money,
(45:20):
you might as well just notbother, because that money is
not going to happen likestraight away as well.
Um, and it's the same withanything, um, I think, James, if
you agree, if you chase themoney, it's not going to happen.
You have to love the drive andthe passion.
So what I would say to thosepeople is that what I would say
to my own self for those peopleis that have an ultimate goal
(45:42):
For me.
I wanted to solve the fact thatI wasn't happy one working for
others.
Two, I didn't enjoy having thatbox of materials I had in my
hands because I wanted theclinical freedom.
And three is I wanted to go inand just bloody enjoy myself,
you know, and enjoy doing thethings I wanted to do.
And if I was sitting here now Iwould clearly say to you that I
(46:03):
have actually got those threethings resolved.
But you have to be prepared forand you have to do a bit of
pre-planning as well and havesome sort of strategy going in.
What I would say is speak to.
I think the best advice wouldbe speak to a broker, similar to
how I um had christian at lilyheads, great guy um and and and
(46:29):
he knows me as well, um, so evenif you just name drop me, I
won't get anything from it, bythe way, and probably a thank
you.
I'm not getting nothing from it, but he, you know we help each
other out.
Like, at the end of day, if youjust, if you just literally sit
down with him and say I'mlooking at going on this journey
, will you be able to like justhash through what would be the
right, right place to start, andI think that's a good, that's a
(46:54):
good place, and otherwise, youknow, just send me a message for
those that are looking toembark on on it and we can just
have a chat and just go fromthere.
So, uh, the facebook book, thefacebook book, I mean the
facebook that has been set up,um, it's called diary of
practice principles, um, andevery week we have like a topic.
(47:16):
Well, I have a topic.
It's like little therapy interms of what's happened that
week or challenges, what's on mymind and the.
The real reason for me to putthat at the end of the week is,
um, for just to open theengagement up and because this
is where we can kind of have alittle bit of a debate, like
share sort of thoughts,processes, and also, um, it's
(47:37):
able for people to jump in andhave a bit of a discussion.
So, um, yeah, if, if you guysdo want to join that group,
you'll be able to see every weekthere'll be a new topic and
then you can just pass throughcertain scenarios from there.
What's up everyone?
Another episode of Dentists WhoInvest podcast.
Today I'm joined by Mr ZainRemy, a relatively recent
practice owner, and we've gotsome wisdom to share for people
who are voyaging down that path,and maybe some words of wisdom
for people who are consideringit or imminently about to embark
on it as well.
Zain, how are you?
Dr Zain (00:18):
I'm great James.
Thank you for taking the call,big fan.
Yeah, I'm really lookingforward to sharing um my journey
with yourself and everyonelistening and hopefully, um,
it'd be great to kind of connectwith, with those embarking on
that similar journey, thinkingabout embarking that similar
(00:38):
journey, and those that arealready on that journey
themselves.
So, yeah, I'm looking forwardto kind of like hashing through
a few things with you andhelping out let's do that.
Dr James (00:48):
And you know what the reason I invited Zain on?
One of the reasons I invitedZain on was because he's created
a facebook community for thisas well.
Zain, can we shout that outright at the start and then
we'll shout it out right again?
Because I'm keen to support,because dental practice owners
they need help, right, they need, they need friends.
Yeah, they need love yeah, ofcourse, um.
Dr Zain (01:09):
So just recently, um, initially I wanted to kind of
share um this, uh, this facebookgroup for um, specifically for
practice owners, but it's kindof developed into a group where
I'm reaching out to associatesthat also want to kind of follow
that same journey.
So the Facebook community groupthat I've set up is the diary
(01:31):
of dental practice owners loveit, yeah, love it.
Dr James (01:36):
Amazing, okay, cool.
Uh, I really like thesepodcasts because these are very
much we're speaking from thehead, but we're also speaking
from the heart about a lot ofthis stuff, because it's what
works to be a dental practiceowner, but it's also what worked
for Zain as well, becausethere's so much variation out
(01:56):
there.
Right like two practice ownerscan go about it in a completely
different way and both succeed.
That's like the cool thingabout business, if you ask me,
because it's what works, butit's also what works for you or
me or for anybody, and that'swhy I really enjoy these
particular podcasts, becauseit's as much about that as it is
about your story.
So proceeding on that foot isin.
(02:17):
If we could talk a little bitabout yourself, just to get a
little bit of background, youwere telling me you qualified in
2016 from dentistry, right?
Dr Zain (02:24):
yes, I qualified, uh in 2016 from kings uh in guys,
london, um, and I am an avidtraveler and I like working out
of my comfort zone.
So I thought, you know what,let me take myself as far up the
northeast as I can, um, tonewcastle, um, and see what it's
(02:45):
about.
If I didn't like it, I wouldhave always sort of moved back
down, you know, and that's wheremy journey started as an FD in
2016.
But I never went with a mindsetthat I wanted to own a practice
or anything like that.
I just wanted to like kind ofbe humble.
I wanted to kind of developmyself, my own credentials as
(03:05):
well, and see, see where, wherethe journey takes me.
And so I mean, should Icontinue going on to the going
through the journey process?
Dr James (03:14):
yeah, you know it's interesting.
I just wanted to jump in andsay one thing that that kind of
piqued my interest there, thatyou were talking you didn't
actually want to own a practice,but no, you do, and there's
lots of people who feel that way, right, but yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, I'm interested, I'mintrigued.
Dr Zain (03:29):
So, yeah, I did my FD in Morpeth, which is a small
town in the northeast, and Iluckily stayed on there because
I kind of liked the family typeof independent sort of feel and
I felt quite at home and my ESwas really cool, really
supportive.
I learned a hell of a lot fromhim and the scheme itself was
(03:51):
bloody awesome as well, and soshout out to the north scheme.
Um, anyway, um, I stayed on foranother year for maternity uh,
covering someone's maternity andthen I embarked on a journey,
um, in a corporate, because Ilooked on, indeed, and there was
literally nothing going.
It was my first opportunity totry and find or sort of delve
into the realms of looking for ajob.
(04:13):
So I was really super scared,um, and you can ask anyone, you
can get all of the advice thatyou wanted, um.
But I kind of took that leapand jumped, and it was because,
at the time, I got sucked intosigning for corporate, which I
won't mention any names, um, butI had a golden handshake, so I
(04:36):
was like, great, I'm gonna get apot of cash.
That's because I was actuallygonna learn.
I was gonna kind of, um, putsome money down on a flat as
well, which again was my firstexperience of buying something.
It didn't work out.
However, I can take positivesfrom it as well.
So I actually worked in a reallylike non-affluent area where it
(05:00):
was very much like NHS drillfill extraction and I was
looking around at all theassociates around me and I was
thinking, hmm, why is it thatthese guys have sold their
practices but they still lovedoing the same sort of stuff?
And, again, there's nothing badabout doing the nitty gritty
NHS things.
But I just for myself, my ownpersonal thing, I just thought
(05:22):
to myself that this cannot be itfor dentistry.
There has to be more than this,um, and I was actually like
losing my passion a little bitand drive and I started not
enjoying it and I was evencontemplating like not dentistry
was not for me, you know, andthis was only like a couple of
years in, two, three, threeyears in.
(05:44):
So this is when I thought youknow what, screw this, I'm going
to like enroll in a course withSmile Academy.
So I don't know if you knowthose guys, kish and Jin Kish
and Jin.
Yeah, I've seen them aroundGreat characters, great set of
guys, and so I actually embarkedon that journey.
I left my corporate practiceand moved into a mixed practice,
(06:05):
and it was at this point whereI was trying to get the cases
for my restorative diploma, thatI nearly got fired.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, because basically I wasscanning every case because I
really eagerly wanted to developmyself, but then I realized
that these guys had a businessto run as well.
Oh, yeah, that thing, yeah,yeah, develop myself, um, but
(06:36):
then I realized that these guyshad a business to run as well.
So, um, I I remember, like Istill remember it today and I've
still got that box of materialsthat I carried around in this
art box of all the privatematerials, and it never sat
right in my head where I wasbringing it out for a private
case and then putting it outputting it away for an NHS case
and this for me, um, I wasstarting to develop my own
values and thinking that, do youknow what?
I think I want to do thingsproperly, by the standards, um,
(06:58):
and take my time over treatments.
And that is why, essentially, Igot pulled in by the principals
and they said look, Zain,you're gonna have to do your
crown preps in like 40 minutes.
And that's where there was alittle bit of a risk and I was
like it ain't happening.
So I kind of then kind of movedon.
So I then sort of applied forjobs in various private
practices, you know, because Ibuilt my portfolio, my clinical
(07:21):
portfolio up, my portfolio, myclinical portfolio up, and so I
had a few cases and and I builtsort of my, a little bit of a
brand, which was my social mediabrand dr zayn remy and and I I
realized there was a niche inthis, by the way, and so I
actually had locked andconnected with a few companies,
in particular I don't know ifyou've heard of zima, who won
(07:42):
the dental industry awards lastyear, and so it's really cool.
They've got a device and thatthey use that.
Basically, please retainers,I'm not going to go into that
anyway um, I found, as a dentist, I was able to build a brand
and the reason why this isrelevant is this this kind of
helped with kind of buildingthose connections, as I then
embarked in sort of dentalpractice ownership later on down
(08:04):
the line.
So I thought do you know whatAll of these dentists are
putting their portfolio online?
When you look at some of thetitles that are presented by
dentists, I don't know if you'veseen and they're great, the
quality of work is amazing, someof the stuff that these guys do
.
But you've got to understandwhy you're doing it, why you're
using and capitalizing onmarketing, such as social media.
(08:27):
So for me, I wanted theengagement to attract more
patients and it then kind of.
I then ended up going intodifferent sort of interviews
with different private practices.
Like I said before, I hadbarriers in a mixed practice
where I was trying to kind of dothings with the time that I
needed with the materials thatobviously was embedded into the
(08:48):
prices, and I've actually thenworked at another private
practice again I'm not going tomention many names, of course,
but I was sort of over promisedbut undersold when I got there
and things like materials.
So this is where I came to asplit decision Do I either go
(09:11):
and travel away from theNortheast, go back down South,
as I originally planned on doing, working at somewhere like
Wimple Street or something likethat, and find the practice that
I want to work for that sharesthe same values and ethos I want
to work for that shares thesame values and ethos, or do I
buy what I want to kind ofdevelop into a place where I'm
happy and working in the waythat I want to work, and at this
(09:34):
time I'd my wife was pregnant,okay, so I was taking a lot of
risks.
Let's do all the research firstand try and get this practice
and develop it in the way that Iwant to develop it and that
kind of puts me nicely into thatstep of purchasing the practice
I like that, so it came fromhere.
Dr James (09:54):
It came from the heart right 100.
You know two, two things I justlike to point out there,
recurring themes.
Whenever I speak to principalsand practice owners, the first
one I would say is, yeah, itcomes from the head.
It's a business decision.
But to make you actually followthrough, to give you that
energy, to give you that passion, it really helps when there's a
reason behind it, like your why, almost, and it usually comes
(10:17):
from personal experience,because there's almost part of
you that just feels like there'sa wrong that has to be righted
in the world and your businessis your vehicle to do that,
which I really love and it is sotrue and that's actually
there's a total parallel therewith denison invest.
I think there's so many thingsthat could be improved about
people's perception of money andalso how they go about whenever
it comes to the investment sideof things like that was
(10:38):
something that I learned throughmy own voyage, but we'll save
that for another day.
That I'm sure I spoke aboutthat another podcast before
which and it's not the point oftoday, so we'll just swerve
right by that, but it is truefor business owners.
And then the other thing wassocial media.
It just really helps, doesn'tit?
Having a brand and a personalbrand.
I think it really helps toclarify what a brand basically
(11:00):
is and that's just basically howmany people have a positive
perception of you is there onedefinition of a brand.
Dr Zain (11:06):
Well, I can say this soon.
So if you move aside from thatand think as a dentist um, am I
able to like swear a little biton this?
I don't know, no we can speakthere.
Dr James (11:19):
There have been expletives, uh, at, you know, on
the dentist podcast, before wehaven't got cancelled.
Dr Zain (11:25):
Yeah, we haven't all right okay, I'll, I'll hold back
it we can have, we can have,some we can yeah okay.
So look, at the end of the day,right as a dentist and I found
this out now, and I've come torealize this as a business owner
, as a principal that as you gothrough the journey from fd all
the way up to wherever you arein your career now, and the
(11:47):
amount of nurses and people thatyou've interacted with,
dentistry is a small world okay.
And it just so happens that thenurses that I went on the
journey with, um in differentpractices that I embarked on,
those nurses ended up workingfor me because of the positive
ethos and the relationship Ibuilt up and how I was able to
(12:08):
do things.
So it's just very mindful to toto.
It's not just the patient base,but who you cheese off, you
know, I mean along the way itcan actually come to bite you
later on down the line.
And so I just thought I'dmention that because I literally
literally have felt that alongthe way and I'm so glad that I
(12:31):
have more positive, I've beenmore positive and have those
positive interactions with myteam and people that I've worked
with the negatives because ofthis situation that I'm in now.
Dr James (12:42):
Hell, yeah, man, yeah, do everything, everything you
possibly can to maintainrelationships with people, and
you know, sometimes it isnecessary to.
Well, here's how I heardsomebody explain you have to
preserve, you know there has tobe some level of you surrounding
yourself with the right people.
And I heard someone say oncethey were like love everybody,
(13:05):
but some people you've got tolove from a distance, right, and
I thought that was a reallynice way of thinking about that,
about it subconsciously, youknow, because, yeah, you should,
you should try to keepeverybody on board is what I'm
saying where possible, yeah, Iagree.
Dr Zain (13:19):
Going back to the social media side of things, so
this is again where thepositivity helps a little bit as
well, because, obviously,building up the affiliations
with certain companies.
So, on the social media, Itouched on the fact that I built
up relationships with the likesof zima, um and um and boutique
and things like that, you know,and this has all helped with um
(13:40):
, um, with with where now I'mable to kind of like lock horns
with certain companies and whowho share the same values, the
positive values and things andenvironmental values, and that's
who.
When we do sort of sellproducts or kind of um or kind
of work with brands, we kind oflook very closely at what their,
(14:01):
what their, their message is aswell.
Um, and this came all from mypersonal brand in terms of what
I was trying to achieve.
So, going back to the originalquestion, in terms of free
marketing, because that's what Ivalue as what I, what I put it
down as I put myself on, becauseI couldn't capitalize on every
single um, um on every singleplatform.
(14:23):
I just didn't have enough timewhilst doing dentistry.
So, um, what I did was Ifocused on TikTok, I focused on
Facebook and I focused onInstagram.
Um, and TikTok grew and that'swhere I got a few of the
affiliations and I wanted tokind of do a lot more.
Um, I wanted to reach out tothe general public and give sort
(14:44):
of like really cool, engaging,silly, stupid content.
You know things like for me,like tom cruise smile, you know
how, like it's not symmetrical,he's got that tooth in the
middle of his head, right,exactly.
Dr James (14:56):
Yeah, can I look?
Can I look you up just whilewe're talking?
Dr Zain (15:00):
yeah, yeah, what is it?
Zain, Zain remy on tiktok yeah,dr Zain remy on tiktok yeah
cool, I'll have a little look.
But yes, you were saying tomcruise, yeah, and then like even
stuff like, for example, callumwilson, newcastle football
player, and it got re-implantedback in.
It was just like crazy stufflike that from a dental
perspective, just to get as muchengagement from various
(15:20):
different groups onto my socialmedia.
And I just want to like addsomething here and say that I'm
no guru on social media.
I'm still learning, okay, butit's just trying to kind of do
things that are a little bitdifferent.
But for me, I wanted to createcontent that allowed me to
engage with the general publicand was able to then turn into
(15:43):
capitalizing patients that wouldthen come in, because
ultimately that is the brand.
And when you go and then sitdown with a principal and you're
like negotiating your split.
Dr James (15:54):
and you know something that blew my mind about social
media and I know on the part onthe podcast we do often talk
about social media and how itcan help and we, we reflect and
we, I suppose, kind of shoot thebreeze on it fairly often.
But there's a reason for that.
It's because it really can helppeople so much in their career.
And one big thing that shiftedfor me whenever I started my
(16:14):
social media journey, I didn'tpost on Facebook for five years
and then one day I went toFacebook true story.
One day I went to Facebook andI typed in Dennis who, invest,
create group, right, literallyright.
It was just overnight, and thenI started posting every day,
and that was five years ago,right.
So I had five years off, fiveyears like intense social media.
(16:35):
And I guess one thing that heldme back from doing that which I
now know not to be true, onlybecause I actually made that
group and I saw it from theother side was that I thought
that you would only actuallyreally be able to make impact
and create something that'sbeneficial whenever you have
50,000 followers or 100,000.
But no, the good stuff startshappening when you literally
(16:56):
have 10 or 100.
Dr Zain (16:58):
Yeah, 100%.
And you know, like things arealways shifting on social media
and I really like kind of payattention to these different
small mini podcasts and thingslike that, and it's all about
the engaging content and beingthe first person to as a dentist
I specifically wanted to targetdentists here is that a lot of?
(17:20):
A lot of not posting and thisis me speaking to other dentists
as well is the confidence ofwhat other people will think.
Oh yeah, okay, the issue thatyou have is that these dentists
because I was one of thosedentists think that hold on,
what if I get judged by otherdentists and I'm gonna look like
an absolute idiot and myconfidence is going to get?
(17:43):
My confidence is up here, butnow my confidence is going to be
completely sort of crushed andI'm not going to post anything
else and that's the fear.
But ultimately you've got tokind of.
You've got to kind of set agoal of why you're doing it, and
for me, the goal was I wantedto get patients and what
(18:05):
patients want are, um, are white, and if you've got basic white
teeth, metal to white teeth.
So for me it was like right, mygoal is to engage with as many
of the general public aspossible, and if I get slated by
other dentists I probably would.
I don't care, because thatparticular post has got me three
(18:26):
patients that are actuallycoming into me, coming into the
practice and booking in withmyself and booking in with
myself.
So really what I'm trying tosay is it's just trying to kind
of be to break away from thatand be the first and be the
first and to sort of boost thatconfidence and try and take the
first step.
That's what I'm trying to do Ithink it's important.
Dr James (18:48):
A really good mental frame is that everything has a
price right.
So posting and having massiveimpact has a price right.
So posting and having massiveimpact has a price.
You might get the odd negativecomment, although I have to say
I'm stunned by how rarely itactually happens in reality.
If ever, yeah, that happens,but the price of you not doing
that is potentially the price ofyou never fulfilling your
(19:09):
dreams as well.
And to me, when you frame itthat way around, I'm like, wow,
shit, all of a sudden it lookseasy to me to just go ahead and
I'll take a few negativecomments versus feeling
unfulfilled all day long.
Depends on someone's goals.
I'm assuming that everyone hasthe same goals as me.
Perhaps they do, perhaps theydon't, I don't know.
I'm speaking from myperspective.
Anyway, anywho, anywho, anywhopractice.
So you opened a practice andyes social media helped you.
(19:34):
Will you leverage social mediato help you set up the practice
right?
Dr Zain (19:37):
yeah, it did, but, um, so that was one like sort of
like aspect, but, um, the themajority of the aspect really
was a lot of pre-planning um andum.
You know, like for me, if I wasto ask one of the dentists
again, I was one of thosedentists where do you start with
all the research?
Um, I really wanted to.
(19:59):
I, I sat down and on a piece ofpaper I literally wrote down
what I wanted to achieve.
Okay, so, number one I wantedto be able to practice and do
the dentistry that I wanted todo, so spend the time that I
wanted to spend and be able todo things like full math rehabs
in a place where, okay, I mightmake a loss, but that's because
(20:21):
I own the practice, I have mymaterials, so have full clinical
freedom.
That was number one.
Number two I didn't like this isnot.
This is I don't want peoplethinking that I'm slaying the
NHS or anything like that.
Okay, but I didn't want to workseeing 50 patients a day or 40
patients a day squeezed in.
I was literally stressed ashell doing that and I just
(20:43):
couldn't give the same care andquality Me personally, not
speaking for anyone else.
I just couldn't do that.
I couldn't work that way.
So that was number two.
And, of course, with anything,I wanted to have my own vision
and strategy, which is againsomething that I actually
prepared because I needed thatto be able to provide that to
(21:03):
the banks to get, even if it waslike a five year plan of what I
wanted to achieve for my vision.
Ok, so they were the threethings, and then I started off
by um, I don't know if I canname drop companies here, I'm
not sure if I'm allowed to dothat, but yeah, yeah, so I
started off with um.
Like I really um got on reallywell with this guy called
(21:27):
christian at lily heads.
It was a broker, um, and Iremember at this point, um, I'd
actually presented a few sort ofpractice stuff to him and said,
look, can you?
I don't know where to start.
I don't even know what.
I do not even know what anEBITDA is.
So I literally said, just hereit is, show me what I need.
(21:48):
What am I looking for?
Like that's profitability, thisis what I want.
I don't want an NHS practicewith a small list, I want a
private practice and I want tobe able to try and kind of um
grow it.
So we hash.
There was like literally two,three.
It took me a year, right, tokind of get the right practice.
Um, looking at the figures andI even like I I was thinking of,
(22:11):
do I go in partnership withsomeone else and do I go into a
three-way partnership withsomeone else on the business?
Yeah, so definitely don't dothat, because to come out of
that you have to also look at acontingency if something does
happen or you don't get on, andit's much harder selling off
your third share.
So anyway, so yeah, so wehashed out and I found a
(22:32):
practice where it had.
It was a Demplan Care.
I don't know if you know whatDemplan Care is.
Dr James (22:39):
Yeah, demplan Care is the one where they pay a
subscription and then they getis their exams covered and a
discount from the treatment, oris it they get everything?
They get everything, don't theyeverything?
Dr Zain (22:50):
everything, it's that so, um, I remember, um, speaking
to, I paid barry alton a littlebit of a consult because I want
, I really liked what he's doingas well and I really wanted to
kind of get a bit of knowledgefrom him, and he basically said,
Zain, take this practice as ared flag, do not do it.
Because basically, um, thispractice on den plan care, um,
(23:14):
you don't have any appreciationfor your chair time or remakes
because, as you just said, therethey have different bandings
based on how many fillingsthey've had set by Demplan.
So it's just set by little tickbox exercises.
So you don't know, there couldbe loads of unsupervised neglect
because there was no hygienistin this place as well.
Neglect because there was nohygienist in this place as well.
(23:38):
And however, um, I I wanted totake the risk, um, because I
knew what I was prepared andwhat I could actually do.
And, trust me, if I knew howbad it was when I got there,
maybe I would have not done it.
And I'm glad I actually didlaunch myself in there because I
changed it to exactly what youjust said a maintenance plan,
which was, which was and I losta hell of a lot of patients
(24:00):
doing it as well and so I tookthe risk and the plunge and I
took calculated risks and but Ipurchased a dem plan care
practice and turned it into apractice plan practice because I
wanted to create plans that wasevidence-based and also
(24:21):
appreciated the chair time, thehourly rate um that we wanted
for, let's say, dentist,hygienic, therapist, whatever um
, and that sort of that sort ofwas my inroads um into getting
into into dental practiceownership.
I then basically christian thenhelped me sort of secure um
(24:43):
funds um and it was quite easyto be honest with you um
actually securing it for throughlloyd um because they
apparently are one of the mainsort of banks that actually
invest in dental practices orloan out and it's quite a safe
(25:04):
bet in their eyes.
So it's not as hard as youthink.
You just need someone that willrun the figures and work for
you.
But definitely come up with astrategy as well, like I know
that sometimes you might strayaway from the strategy, but I
had like a five-year little ministrategy of what I want to
achieve.
You know what my business corevalues are, which we have, you
(25:27):
know, sustainability, et cetera,because it kind of keeps you
grounded as well when you'renavigating through all of the
changes.
Dr James (25:35):
And that helped as well a little bit to give a bit
of context to the banks you knowwhat, on the whole vision for
your business side of things, Inever did that at the very start
and a part of me, part of me,thought to myself what is this
fluff?
I don't need this, let's justget it done right.
But it actually really helpscalibrate you and I've.
(25:57):
I've come full.
I've done a 180 now about threeyears and I did that exercise.
I read a really great book.
I don't know if you've heard ofit.
It's called traction by ginowickman.
I heard of it.
Dr Zain (26:08):
I'm gonna take a note of that bloody brilliant book is
so great.
Dr James (26:12):
it really complements uh, you heard of the e-myth,
michael gerber, all about allabout making processes in your
business.
Anyway, they I really like thee-myth is, you know it's more
spoken off.
Uh, the reason I brought thee-myth up was because it
actually some people may be ableto relate to that in the
audience.
And this book, traction,complements the e-myth perfectly
(26:33):
, like they should be the samebook, like volume one, volume
one and volume two, if you askme.
But yeah, anyway, traction,gino Wickman, all about it talks
about this thing called theentrepreneurial operating system
and it's all about, yeah, buthow do you make decisions unless
you actually have a vision foryour business?
Like you know, something onlymakes sense relative to whether
(26:54):
or not it takes you further awayfrom your or away from your
objective.
But if you haven't actuallydefined the goal or the
objective, then nothing actuallyreally makes any sense because
it's all relative.
And I see, I completely seethat now and I probably did a
lot of spinning my wheels when Icould have been more concise
and purposeful, and it soundsthat you relate to that from
(27:14):
what you're saying more conciseand purposeful, and it sounds
that you relate to that fromwhat you're saying.
Dr Zain (27:17):
Yeah, a hundred percent , and you know you can pre-plan
everything.
But trust me, if you don't doany pre-planning, then you've
got nothing to kind of to fallback on, because whatever
pre-planning you've done iscompletely different, and you'll
hear about that as soon as I'veembarked on the challenges that
I faced when I went into dentalpractice ownership.
(27:37):
It's not what you think.
Dr James (27:39):
um, there's a lot more you know what, maybe a
brilliant opportunity right nowto segue into that, because this
is the stuff that's going toreally extra super help people
right.
Dr Zain (27:47):
So this is my personal experience when I actually so
okay, um, I was locuming at thetime to get a little bit of
funds together you know dayrates and whatnot um, because,
um, it took a little bit longerto actually purchase this
practice.
So I did something that was alittle bit different to the norm
.
I put warranty claims inbecause, remember what I said
(28:10):
about the den plan care practiceI already knew, based on
locking horns with the likes ofyou know people that I've
mentioned that um, what I wasexpecting, even clinically,
where treatments were done veryquickly, etc.
Right, so I put warranty claimsin and I actually used this uh,
this is woodlands, they'rereally good um, um, and it took
(28:31):
me ages to negotiate and sitdown and negotiate with the
owners and say, look, this iswhat I'm prepared to do, but I
want a 12 year warranty on anyfailed treatments or failed
issues with the building andthings like that.
Ok, which actually has saved myass because I'm actually going
(28:52):
through that process now.
My ass because I'm actuallygoing through that process now.
Okay, but I'll come to thatanyway.
When I, when I took over thepractice, my goal was, I really,
really wanted to be thisprincipal that kept all my staff
on and and had amazing patientsthat were singing my praise,
you know, and all the the ownersthat were like saying great
(29:13):
Zain coming in, he brings thisto the table, we're going to be
a happy family.
But it didn't happen like that,um, and because I came with a
very different angle andapproach where um, even my
dentistry, um again, was verymuch like I wanted to do things
by the book, um, I wanted mynurses to follow the same um,
(29:34):
same things, things by the book.
I wanted my nurses to followthe same thing, things on the
rubber dam, etc.
And I was prepared to sit downand, you know, with these
principles to say, look, this ishow things are.
I'm happy to sit down with youguys and kind of like adapt a
little bit of your dentistry andhelp you and guide you through
this.
But all I want from you guys isjust to kind of like, not bad
(29:58):
mouth me and make you know, makeme make me look decent, because
obviously you guys are retiringsoon, um, so it'd be nice for
you to kind of me, to kind oftake that reins and keep my
patients intact, because that'swhat I paid for the goodwill.
Okay, um, ultimately, um, cutthe long story short because
(30:19):
it's gone for ages.
Um, in the end, um, I never, Inever got rid of any of the
nurses and I never got rid ofany of the owners.
(33:06):
So yeah, I, I had everythingagainst me and you know, at the
same time I literally, likeliterally, my wife was having a
baby.
Oh, my goodness.
So I was going through all of it.
Dr James (33:20):
Business ain't easy, bro, business ain't easy.
I think it's fair to say.
Dr Zain (33:24):
Exactly, but you know, fast forward what, from October
23 to where I'm at now, I've gota practice manager who started
off as a nurse, who I retainedfrom.
From there she's now mypractice manager.
Going through that journey I'vehad I have, like, new reception
team, I have new dentists, Ihave a therapist who actually
(33:50):
does therapy in terms of breadand butter and fillings, so I
use them as a therapist, not ahygienist, um, and I've got out
and out hygienist and, um, yeah,so I wrote an article actually,
uh, with dentistrycouk, um, andI think we're going to be doing
another follow-up on thehygiene therapy model, which is
quite relevant now becausethat's actually articles that
(34:11):
are actually being put on.
But that's changed a little bit.
Um, and this just shows you howmuch, how willing I am to take
that risk, um, but it has paidoff and I'm lucky it's paid off
because I had a lot of drop-offsat the beginning, um, and I
look at, I look at my drop-offsand I have looked at my
drop-offs and I've gone home tomy wife who actually believe or
(34:34):
not, is the finance side ofthings.
No, no clue about dentistry.
She's not dental background.
However, she goes Zain.
What the hell is happening here?
Why are there's more?
Why are they?
She goes business concepts tohave money.
You need patience, right,because patients take your money
.
Why is it that this week you'vegot 18 patients not on the list
anymore?
(34:54):
And I'm trying to basicallyexplain to her like don't worry,
things are you know, they'reworking.
We've upped the out, we'veupped the fees and things like
that.
So I'm trying to kind of puther at ease, um, and put her
mind at ease.
But at the same time, I've justliterally just thought of it in
a positive way and what Ibelieve is that the value that I
(35:15):
bring in terms of the ethosthat I'm bringing, not only are
going to kind of kind of like bepart of the team that I've now
developed, but even the vibethat I get from patients coming
in from now to what, what theywere before like very negative.
I can literally see it withpatients that are coming through
(35:35):
the door that have actuallybought into the culture of what
I actually bring.
And it's so cool, it's so nicespeaking to these patients and
we've had a bit of a surgeryrevamp as well, and I've had to
do that very fast because I goback to the warranty claims that
(35:56):
I put in that saved my bacon.
It just so happens I've hadissues as well along the way
where plumbing has failed,shoddy workmanship has been done
as well, and that's where I'mat with the legal side of things
.
I've had to actually takefinance out to pay for all these
things and as a result, yeah,I've just ridden it with
(36:17):
positivity and you know, this iswhere I'm at today.
So I know I've kind of likereally fast track that.
I just didn't want to kind ofdwell into loaded detail.
I'm happy to go back on certainthings, but all I would say is
my main message from where I'm.
What I'm saying now is you'vejust got to kind of believe in
what you do and, and that's kindof what I live by at the moment
(36:40):
.
Dr James (36:40):
Boom, I love it, man, and it's it's.
It actually kind of reiteratesthe why the vision thing is so
important and why, it comingfrom the heart is so important
because sooner or later you'regonna get shit thrown at you.
If you start a business like itjust will happen.
Right, it happens at day one.
Dr Zain (37:01):
Exactly.
Dr James (37:01):
It's like the first minute, right, something is just
going to hit you in the facelike bam, because Elon Musk not
everybody is his fan, of course,but there's this saying that he
has, and he's like, if youthink about it, when you're the
CEO, all the worst problems findtheir way to you, because the
definition of being up here isthat the hard shit that
(37:23):
everybody can't deal with getsto you, right, so you're a
filter for all the nonsense,right, and listen, some people
thrive off it.
I actually like that.
I get a genuine big kick out ofif there's a really big problem
and we fix it, and it's like,yeah, we come up with some
really sick innovative solution,and I'm kind of getting a vibe
that that's you as well.
(37:44):
So it's what.
What I'm saying is it's.
It's just, if we can sharethese things with people, then
they know what the path lookslike and they can figure out if
they're, if this is somethingfor them or it's it's not for
them.
Zain, I'm gonna ask you aquestion, right, you go back and
talk to your younger self, justabout to embark upon practice
ownership, and he says, Zain,will it be worth it?
Is it worth it so far?
Dr Zain (38:06):
yes, even though, even though I go home every single
day and I have a moan not aboutmyself, because I do that to my
practice manager, and we hashthrough things and try and put
things in order because my staffare incredible right, they have
their own, they have their ownand they have their own like
headaches, um, but I go homeevery day, but then we work
(38:27):
through it.
I go home to my wife and I'malways sort of moaning about
certain things and I get scaredas well, I myself.
I wake up on, I wake up at theend of the week and all of a
sudden I'm like this business isgonna flop.
And then I, I go in on mondayand go do you know what?
No, it's not.
And I go through those boutsbecause, um, I I'm a real, real
(38:48):
fan of Stephen Bartlett on Diaryof CEO, hence the group name.
Okay, and um, he said and um,and this is a really, really
super, super cool thing that Ipicked up from his podcast is
that if you're not out of yourcomfort zone, if you don't feel
like you're out of your comfortzone, you're doing something
wrong.
Okay, and every single day, asa practice owner, I'm always out
(39:11):
of my comfort zone and thatjust shows you that I feel like
I'm growing because, as you justsaid there, you touched on it,
that, and you thrive on it andthat's how you grow and that's
how I have grown.
And I look back in october 23and I look back at where I'm at
now and do you remember all ofthose that sheet I told you
about of what have I achieved?
(39:31):
You know that sheet that I wentback and said that do I enjoy
doing dentistry?
Am I going to be in a practicewhere I'm able to go in every
day and love what I'm doing, youknow, and feel relaxed, because
that's what I feel like whenI'm actually doing dentistry,
because I'm doing it for theteam.
I can tick all of those off.
And but one thing I have learnedis and if I can reflect on it,
(39:52):
the most hardest thing for me ismanaging people because they
bring their own um again.
Going back to Dario ceo, as youcan tell, I'm a big fan.
Um, you have to almost maketheir problem your problem as a
ceo and you have to kind of.
If, for example, um someone hasa personal issue, you have to,
(40:16):
you have to be very much like umand I'm struggling with this.
I find it very difficult aswell because I have my own
problems, but you have to kindof like almost you know
empathise and delve into it,because obviously if they feel
crap at work, then it's going tospoil the productivity for you
and you want to be able to bethat boss that they can go to
(40:38):
and be very supportive as well,and that is something that I
would say I've learned and I'mstill learning, and that's a
real struggle for me and that'ssomething I would love to kind
of be better at.
Dr James (40:54):
Well, you know it's not easy, right, because you're
basically the emotional obelisk,right, and people, they cast
their emotions onto you and it'stough, you know.
But, as you say, there's anopportunity for personal growth
there, isn't it?
To be able to absorb it andreflect it back in a positive
way, which is not always easy,and listen, we can't always do
(41:17):
it, can we?
But that's what we're strivingfor.
You know what you were sayingearlier about the challenge side
of things, but that's whatwe're striving for.
What you were saying earlierabout the challenge side of
things, what I really like aboutrunning a company is it's like
you can just see everything thathappens is an opportunity for
growth, right, and that gets meexcited in that I would feel
like if I ever feel like thatprocess is not happening, then I
(41:40):
get bored so fast personally.
You know it's this horse I'mjust speaking from my
perspective like I actually geta buzz out of that now.
And there's there's a saying Ican't remember where I heard
this from, uh, but the saying isit was something along the
lines it was a business ownerand he was talking and he was
like how do you deal with thechallenges on running your
business?
And he said something along thelines of, yeah, but the bigger
(42:02):
the dragon, the stronger thehero, which I really like.
I'm fired up.
It's like, yeah, okay, it'sjust a big old dragon, right and
it's.
It's, it's there, it needs tobe conquered or vanquished or
whatever, right, so it just putsit on you.
It's like, yeah, but if I was,okay, you know, I can overcome
this.
I just have to work myself.
I just have to become that hero.
(42:23):
Yeah definitely.
Dr Zain (42:26):
You have to look at everything in a positive light
as well, like, I mean, I look atit.
There's a social media image Idon't know if you've seen it,
but there's this person taking atrain journey and this one
person sitting on opposite sidesis looking at to the right-hand
side there's like cliffs andthere's a wall, and the other
(42:49):
person is looking at like a nice, beautiful river and scenery.
Um, and it just it's exactlyeverything that you take, even
in your own personal life.
Right, that's what I look at isthat you always look at the
positives and it's like a puzzlethat you're trying to solve,
and for me, um, every day I goin, it's a fresh new puzzle.
Um, and and you said ityourself it's like, um, if every
(43:09):
day was the same, it'd beboring, and and I enjoy it
secretly, even though itstresses the hell out of me and
I probably have this much hairnow um, I think probably in a
year's time, your hairline islooking good mine it?
Dr James (43:27):
mine looks like it's receding, but what I?
Dr Zain (43:28):
have in my defense is.
Dr James (43:30):
It's been like this since I was 14, so I think we're
stable here for the moment, butum, it's funny, right, because
you know that meme that you'retalking about.
It's like you're on the bus andone side of the bus is really
shiny and bright right.
Then the other side is likereally gloomy and there's like
on the bus and one side of thebus is really shiny and bright
right.
Then the other side is likereally gloomy and there's like a
little bit of text below eachof the person yeah I saw.
I saw one once, uh, that wasdental related, that had that
(43:50):
meme and it was like the thesunny person was, uh, the sunny
side, this person on the sunnyside of the bus.
The text below them saidsomething along the lines of
when you think mb2s are reallyrare.
And then the gloomy side waswhen you realize 95 of upper
molars have mb2s and you're like, yeah, and that was definitely
(44:12):
me.
I was like, oh, another toothwithout an mb2 nice one, yeah I
thought it was like one in ahundred, but actually it's the
other way around like 99 havethem, you just have to find them
.
Anyway, we digress Zain wordsof wisdom.
There'll be some people outthere who are just about to
embark on the journey of owninga practice.
They'll be associates, or atleast they're thinking about it.
(44:34):
What would you say to them?
Dr Zain (44:36):
so I would say, uh, we touched on the facebook group.
I have right, uh, that I've setup, please, if you can.
It's called Diary of aPrincipal Owners.
If you join that group, that'sprobably a good fresh start,
because you get to lock hornswith other principals.
You know that you can learn offthem.
They can, you know, they cangive you a bit of advice.
So that would be my firststepping stone.
(44:59):
The second stepping stone islook at your own self.
Okay, are you happy as a dentalassociate?
Because it's not just it's notas easy as saying that I want to
own a practice because you'regoing to have to have everything
else that comes with it.
Okay, so, aside, if you'regoing to go in it for the money,
(45:20):
you might as well just notbother, because that money is
not going to happen likestraight away as well.
Um, and it's the same withanything, um, I think, James, if
you agree, if you chase themoney, it's not going to happen.
You have to love the drive andthe passion.
So what I would say to thosepeople is that what I would say
to my own self for those peopleis that have an ultimate goal
(45:42):
For me.
I wanted to solve the fact thatI wasn't happy one working for
others.
Two, I didn't enjoy having thatbox of materials I had in my
hands because I wanted theclinical freedom.
And three is I wanted to go inand just bloody enjoy myself,
you know, and enjoy doing thethings I wanted to do.
And if I was sitting here now Iwould clearly say to you that I
(46:03):
have actually got those threethings resolved.
But you have to be prepared forand you have to do a bit of
pre-planning as well and havesome sort of strategy going in.
What I would say is speak to.
I think the best advice wouldbe speak to a broker, similar to
how I um had christian at lilyheads, great guy um and and and
(46:29):
he knows me as well, um, so evenif you just name drop me, I
won't get anything from it, bythe way, and probably a thank
you.
I'm not getting nothing from it, but he, you know we help each
other out.
Like, at the end of day, if youjust, if you just literally sit
down with him and say I'mlooking at going on this journey
, will you be able to like justhash through what would be the
right, right place to start, andI think that's a good, that's a
(46:54):
good place, and otherwise, youknow, just send me a message for
those that are looking toembark on on it and we can just
have a chat and just go fromthere.
So, uh, the facebook book, thefacebook book, I mean the
facebook that has been set up,um, it's called diary of
practice principles, um, andevery week we have like a topic.
(47:16):
Well, I have a topic.
It's like little therapy interms of what's happened that
week or challenges, what's on mymind and the.
The real reason for me to putthat at the end of the week is,
um, for just to open theengagement up and because this
is where we can kind of have alittle bit of a debate, like
share sort of thoughts,processes, and also, um, it's
(47:37):
able for people to jump in andhave a bit of a discussion.
So, um, yeah, if, if you guysdo want to join that group,
you'll be able to see every weekthere'll be a new topic and
then you can just pass throughcertain scenarios from there.
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