How Do the Packers Stack Up in the NFC North?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
I woke up 1 morning just a regular schmo.
Green Bay was restless. The spirit ran low and then it
hit me. I had to let it show.
So shout it so loud. Go, pack.
Go. But the fans started roaring.

(00:38):
Lambeau Field shook from the very first moment.
That's all it took. Now the line.
If I told you I could barely thought seen in a chance some
soccer team got no need for a Viking to borrow June.
I choose that The power of the frozen monsoon.

(01:02):
The ABS. Did you create it?
Did you buy online? But that's not my policy.
These words are mine. Here.
Go back gold. Go back gold.
Go back gold. Go pack, go, go, pack, go.

(01:33):
Go there and shout. It's so loud.
Go pack, go. I feel like fire.
Go pack, go, go, pack. Go, go, pack, go.
Yeah. Go pack, go yeah.

(02:10):
Welcome back to Derailed. I'm your host, as always.
JJ Leahy. I almost said Jake Chavink.
I don't know why. It's because the next thing I
usually say is here's my. Co host.
Jake Chavink. Yeah.
I'm JJ Leahy. Look at look at how much of the
beard I chopped off. It's a lot of beard gone.
It's good, like 6 inches gone. It's tight.

(02:32):
This is for summer, right? Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Actually, it's not really for summer.
It's actually because my son is five months old now and he's
crazy grabby with his little fingers and he's yanking my
beard. And I just, I couldn't do it
anymore. So hopefully I don't have to
keep taking it shorter than this.

(02:54):
But But yeah, look, we got TylerDirchell in the chat.
We got too old for this. I'm I'm, I'm feeling it.
I'm feeling it. Jake.
We're going to be talking about how the Packers stack up against
the rest of the NFC North. I think it's going to be fun to
go through position group by position group.
And you know, you see every yearabout this time, you see

(03:20):
different bloggers and journalists writing articles,
you know, comparing, hey, who has the best wide receiver room,
best running back room, yadda, yadda.
And you see the graphics where, you know, hey, we're going to
say which team in the division takes the crown for each of
these position groups. That's not what we're doing.
We got our own twist. And that is how does each of our

(03:42):
position groups fit into the bigpicture of the NFC North?
And we dipped our toe in the water a little bit a week ago
when we were talking about our wide receivers matched up
against the rest of the NFC North's questionable defensive
back rooms. So that's what we're going to

(04:05):
do. We're going to we're going to
catch up on a couple of these comments.
First, you guys can admire my fancy new webcam.
Watch this. OK, If I move over here.
Oh, it follows me. Oh, I'm so cool.
I'm going to move over here. Oh, it keeps me in frame.
That's great because I love to move around.
Any of you who have met up with me in person know that I like

(04:27):
kind of can't sit still. So this is great.
I can move all around and still stay centered.
SO2 over this, says Frank Ragnowno longer fits in the picture of
the NFC North. The lions really went from rags
to riches and back to rags now. Oh my gosh, that's brilliant.

(04:48):
Well done. Slow clap.
Wow, too old for this brilliant man.
So he says this picture put it up on screen.
Why is it not on screen? There it is.
This picture looks like Jake drew the short straw in one of
Jigsaw's games. Derschel says he looks like if

(05:11):
Kevin O'Connell and Sheldon fromBig Bang Theory had a kid.
I was looking, I was looking, you know, so I was talking last
week about how I have this app, Packers alerts Twitter account
that you can go and keep up to date with all the Packers news,

(05:33):
right? So that was like my old Packers
account back in the day. So I was just looking at it and
like, hey, I wonder how many of my takes held up and I, I
deleted everything. But I did see that back when
Kevin O'Connell first left Washington that I highlighted

(05:54):
that and said, I think he's going to basically be a stud no
matter where he goes. Of course, you know, his next
stop was with the Rams. And, but I had my eye on him,
you know, so this would have been 20-19, maybe early 2020.
Anyways, you know, one of my fewhits.
So tool for this says Bazinga. Welcome back to prime time

(06:18):
Tyler. Yeah, Tyler, we have missed you.
I it's it's just felt weird and disjointed that we don't have
Tyler and tool for this on everysingle stream.
You know, hitting it up. We got webcam sponsored by
redacted drink. Oh, yeah.
Thanks for reminding me. There it is.

(06:40):
I only got 3 hours of sleep lastnight, so this is very needed.
Well, that's a good flavour to be pure citrus.
All right. And was the Packers alerts
account sharing thing? I don't understand your
question. Go to on X, it's app Packers

(07:03):
Alerts and you give up all the Packers news right there.
Yeah. Tyler Derschel, I feel you, man.
With the wedding planning, I don't feel you.
Tyler is the ultimate planner. And she like had it all covered.

(07:24):
This is this is the the Irish exit is time trusted tradition.
All right, time. We're going to try and rail
this, right? We're going to we're going to
rail it later. Derail it.
Yeah, we're going to get this conversation on the on track.
That's better. And leave, leave that comment to

(07:47):
to Brian and those in the chat who do that.
But Brian's not here yet, man. And I'm feeling the he'll make
that joke. He'll make that joke event.
Freaking Brian. I, I added him twice, ated, not
added ated him twice on X and hestill isn't in here.
Freaking Brian. OK, So Jake, I'm going to let

(08:10):
you talk about Ragnow for a SEC because I do think this is
obviously massive. I think over the last three
years, you probably would have to rank Ragnow as the number one
center in the NFL over that, youknow, average of, of three

(08:31):
years. Creed definitely had a better
2024 than Frank did, like prettyundebatably in, in my opinion,
due to, you know, the injuries in age.
We're certainly starting to catch up with Frank and the
although he was still just a dominant monster in run blocking

(08:52):
the pass pro. I I I could see that the lack of
agility was starting to get to Frank, but this is obviously a
monumental blow to the best offensive line in the NFC North.
And you know, it's going to be interesting seeing what the

(09:13):
Lions are able to put together this year with two new
coordinators and, you know, kindof a new look offensive line.
So give give me your your reaction to Ragnow going and
kind of where you see them putting this together in

(09:35):
Detroit. For the offensive line.
Well, there are a lot of questions now because I mean,
again, the three most important spots, left tackle, center,
right tackle. Luckily for Detroit, those the
the two bookends to tackle they're they're sticking around.
But Ragnow retiring and and Zeitler leaving as well create

(09:59):
this this massive, this massive gap in the interior offensive
line. Yes, Graham Glasgow has played
multiple spots for them. That's fine.
But again, right now it's him, Christian Mahogany, who played a
little bit last year, you know, as a sixth round pick out of
Boston College. And you have now Tate Ratlage

(10:20):
coming in and Miles Frazier coming in.
Fraser really hasn't played too much center.
He got more right tackle and then both guard spots in Mobile.
That's probably where he's goingto fit.
And and so they've been reportedly cross training
Ratledge to play center. Not that he, you know, said he
has done it. I don't think he did it at
Georgia. Maybe that was a high school

(10:40):
thing where he did that. So, yeah, a lot of moving parts
along that interior offensive line if they lose Graham Glasgow
for any time, cool boy. We got a lot of of of
inexperience out there on the interior.
So it's it's a big deal. It's a big deal.

(11:02):
So I, I, you know, for, for the rest of the division who are
looking to get, you know, the bears are looking to get more
out of Zach Pickens and oh boy, the guy from Florida who's
escaping my mind, who's, you know, a young player,
potentially ascending. Javon Dexter got it.

(11:25):
There we go. And they brought in Grady
Jarrett. So so they, they're hoping that
they can get more out of that unit this year and potentially,
you know, be able to take advantage of this.
And obviously, Green Bay's in that same boat of Devante Wyatt,
you know, hopefully he stays healthy all year, right.
You're looking at maybe, you know, maybe we'll see Kenny

(11:48):
Clark bounce back. I saw that thing about the bone
spurs and all that in the foot. Oh, I missed that one.
Dang, yeah, there was a little bit of that talk today.
Guess I should have been following my own Packers alerts.
The the division as a whole might be is in position at the
very least with with some players taking jumps to take

(12:08):
advantage of this lion's inexperience along the the
interior, the offensive line. Now.
I mean it's it's it's going to be very different.
Jared Goff. It's a new center right is is he
ready to set all the protections?
If it's Glasgow, great. If it's ratledge who boy, really
quick. At least it happened before

(12:29):
training camp, right. We're not getting the kind of
late July, early August retirement.
So at least there's some ramp upprocess.
But boy, it's I, I think it's going to, the season's going to
happen upon them pretty quickly just in terms of like that
urgency for them. So, yeah, a lot of changes for
this Detroit team and it's goingto, it's going to be fascinating

(12:50):
to see, you know, how they come out of the gate, how they
respond to, to challenges in theseason.
And and I think, yeah, it all itall stems from yes, it goes
coordinator to coordinator and there will be changes in there,
you know, maybe some some hiccups along the way, but
losing your center who has when healthy been excellent.

(13:12):
It's a big deal. It's a it's a big deal.
It it, it changes a lot because of how brutish and dominant they
were up front to, you know, to give, you know, Montgomery 2025
carries get, you know, Jamir Gibbs in the mix.
Like they're they're still goingto do that.
They're going to run the ball. How effective will they be,
though? Will they be able to create all

(13:33):
the favorable under center play action looks that they've had
over, you know, the last couple seasons?
I don't know. It's it's it's going to be
interesting. Yeah.
And Tyler's asking if I believe that Kenny was held back by a
bunion or bone spurs. So I I did a quick search and I

(13:57):
and I see Kenny Clark talking about this is 4 hours ago.
He said he injured his foot, hisfoot in the opener against the
Eagles and played through it allyear.
Was asked how much did the injury affect him last fall and
he said a lot, elaborated. I wouldn't even say it's the
speed. It's every step, every step you

(14:20):
take. Your toe is busted.
I mean, you know, I I feel for him.
That would suck for sure. Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, would love to see some rebound from that.
You know, the problem, the big problem I have is that I didn't
feel like last year was an anomaly for him.
I felt like last year was just acontinuation of the trend that

(14:41):
we've seen for the last few years.
You know, I didn't want him backprior to the 2024 season
beginning because I thought he played poorly in 2023 despite.
Oh, he got. 6 sacks or 4 1/2 sacks or whatever he got like,
OK, great. So fewer than 10 plays out of
the entire season is what we're going to judge the season on.

(15:03):
Like, I'm sorry, that's not thatimpressive to me, you know?
And I sit there and I watch him play and I see the plays that he
takes off and it's a lot. And I, I, I get frustrated when
I see him either just wildly getting out of his lane.

(15:23):
And hey, sure, I'm not the defensive coordinator.
I don't know what he was supposed to do on that play.
Maybe he was supposed to stunt outside or something, but you
know, when I noticed him screaming around to the left
side, you know, chasing after a QB who doesn't have the ball in
his hands and meanwhile the running back goes squirts right
through the hole that he just vacated.

(15:44):
I feel pretty frustrated to him.And then, you know, I'm when I
said he takes plays off, that's not what I'm talking about.
Like that's that's just a whole separate matter.
There are a lot of plays where, you know, you see Devante Wyatt
or Carl Brooks or who's the who's the young guy who got

(16:06):
playing time like way down the stretch at the end of the year
last year. Hold on.
I got my spreadsheet right here.The guy I'm thinking of is not
coming enough. I don't know who I'm thinking of
because we don't have any defensive tackles.
But anyways, you you see guys and and Rashawn is out there,

(16:27):
you know, and they're still fighting through the snap.
QB still has a ball in his handsand Kenny Clark literally has
his hands on his hips. Like I'm sorry, that ticks me
off. I don't have to know what the
play call was. I garen freaking T you.
At no point did the DC yeah, I knew somebody was going to get
on me for saying that to all forthis.

(16:49):
I I geared freaking to you at no, at no point in the play
design, you know, is there a a little note that says Kenny
stands here with his hands on his hips Like they don't have a
code word for that. Maybe they should maybe they
should have a code word for it so that they can identify it and
and make it quit happening. So do I think that the bunion or
the bone spur or the turf toe, whatever it was, held him back

(17:14):
last year? I'm sure.
I guess. Like, I'm not calling him a
liar. I would like to know if that's
his justification for standing there with his hands on his
hips. Like, does that make the toe
feel better? I don't know.
Probably any level of balance. I'm too hard on Kenny, I'm sure.
But the chat's asking me about it.

(17:35):
So look, I'm going to give the people what they want.
Yeah. No notes.
No notes. It wasn't.
And too old for it says it wasn't COVID toe.
If you want, I can. I can do Matt Orsack too.
You want some Matt Orsack rant? No, you want Jayden Reid.
Jayden Reid is another one of mywhipping boys.

(17:56):
See, the thing with Jayden Reid is that he's in a totally
different tier. All right, you got Kenny and
Matt Orsack, who I genuinely want off the team.
And then Jayden Reid frustrates me because I know how good he is
and I want him to just be consistent and play better.
Like it's totally different. Like I am still team Jayden

(18:18):
Reid. Like I wanted him benched at
times to like motivate him to play better.
When I want Kenny Cutt or Matt Orszck imprisoned, it's because
of that I think they're a detriment to the Packers.
When I rant about Jayden Reid, it's because I know he easily

(18:38):
could be wide receiver one on the Packers and certainly was
for a a big chunk of the year last year.
Hey Jeff, go pack go from San Diego, gents.
Howdy, welcome. Glad to have you.
So, so the Jaden Reed rants. Those are more out of love.
Frustrated love. Oh.

(19:00):
Frustrated love. That's a that would be a good
album name. I got to see if where were we?
Who? Who derailed me?
I don't have anything on this. Wow.
Someone's going to. Someone's going to.
What are? You looking up?
Frustrated love is a is an albumtitle I don't see I'll tell you

(19:23):
what I don't want to see. I don't want to see Frustrated
love this year. I don't want to see Jordan Love
frustrated. I on Sunday I was watching the
calendar year 2016, but it was a2015 season playoffs and this is
the Packers Cardinals Jeff Janisgame.

(19:46):
I was watching this on Sunday with my mom and I was struck by,
you know, as I'm watching Aaron and like, OK, this was like
pinnacle Aaron Rodgers doesn't have enough help.
Like that narrative I think was completely born from that game
where. He doesn't have any of his wide

(20:07):
receivers. OK Randall Cobb is out.
Devante's out. Jordy's out.
They're all out. And all he's got is James Jones,
who goes like over six in that game, Jared Eberdaris and Jeff
Janis. And that's the only the only
people he has to throw to. And Richard Rodgers.
And then like, the defense can'tstop a a runny nose, OK.

(20:29):
And I'm watching Aaron and like,he's so frustrated and he's like
shaking his head after every incompletion.
And I'm sitting there and I was like, OK, I this is 0 animosity
toward Aaron. Like, I love Aaron and I don't
have any hard feelings toward him at all.
But I really appreciate that we don't get that from Jordan that

(20:52):
like, if there's a bad play, he's just like, there.
He's like clapping, like, all right, come on, guys.
Like pick it up. Like let's keep going, I think,
and and it's probably largely just born from like how long
Aaron was here. Like you kind of really
appreciate just the fresh changeof pace.
It's a freaking long time to have the same quarterback.

(21:13):
And it was great. But like watching Aaron in that
game and like, man, he was doingfreaking magic.
Like I'm watching, I'm just like, I don't this is This is
why people were so terrified of Aaron Rodgers was just like just
bull crap. Like that throw he just made
like impossible. He should have been sacked
twice. That should not have been

(21:33):
completion. How did he even see the guy He
threw it to? Like, there's a, you know, D
tackle right in his face and he's not even looking down the
field. He just whips it and just, you
know, bucket touchdown and it was so much fun watching him.
But then, you know, I, I would just like see the like,
frustration after every bad play.

(21:54):
And I was like, OK, again, it itjust makes me appreciate Jordan
and that his leadership style also works.
Like there's more than one way to skin a cap.
And I can be ready for a new chapter and still appreciate
Aaron, but really appreciate that we have Jordan.

(22:19):
How do we feel about the wide receiver of the pack drafted in
the third round this last draft?Yes, we talked about Savion a
bunch. And I think that where we have
landed is that there's kind of three main views out there on
Savion. I think the most common commonly
held view is, hey, this dude is a freak.

(22:44):
You can use him every which way.You got to be really creative,
get the ball in his hands a bunch of different ways, You
know, have him, you know, comingout of the backfield.
Let's let's let's let him carry the ball.
Let's let him play tight end. Let's let's get super creative
and do all these crazy things. And that is where our offensive
coordinator is. That's what Steno, that's how he

(23:06):
talks about him. And I think this is the most
commonly held viewpoint on Savion Williams, the second most
common viewpoint about Savion. I would guess this is closer to
where you are, Jake, but maybe I'm off on this, is that he was

(23:28):
like a a wasted pick. Like he just can't play
football. I I think that that that is
probably the most second, like the second most common take on
Savion after like, hey, he's thenext Cordero Patterson.
You know, we're going to, you know, just be doing a freaky
stuff with him. And then the third take is where
I'm at. And I think this is not a very

(23:48):
common one and it's probably incorrect, but it's still where
I'm at. Like I'm I can't really budget
off of this, which is like I'm just not that interested in
being crazy and goofy with him and having him play a bunch of
different roles. I just want to teach him to play
wide receiver consistently. We have seen like Goody has

(24:11):
drafted some guys over the past couple years at different
positions where you look at him and you're like, you're like,
hey, athletic freak. Not really sure if he can play
football. I'm not really sure what he can
do. And Savion, I don't think that's
an accurate description of him because we have seen him do
literally everything well, just never at the same time.
He does like one thing crazy well at one time.

(24:35):
So I'm excited about the fact that it's all there in him.
I don't have any doubts about his ability to be a good route
runner or to make contested catches or to create separation
or to run block. But we haven't seen that all
together. OK, So what?

(24:56):
He's raw. That's like the definition of
raw and undeveloped. So, you know, I just don't get
very excited hearing Stenovich talk about like, hey, here's all
the goofy Wacky packages I have cooked up for him.
I'm like, can we just teach him how to play wide receiver really
well? Because I think that he could be
our ex or, you know, find some useful role in our offense with

(25:20):
some consistency. Because the way to not get
playing time in Matt Lafleur's offense is to be inconsistent.
If you could do a bunch of cool,crazy stuff, OK, that's cool.
But if you're dropping easy passes, if you're running into
guys, if you are not understanding the
responsibilities and what the play caller is expecting of you

(25:43):
on that play, that's how you getAmari Rogers.
All right. And that's what I don't want to
see happen with Savia. I, you know, I think that
there's huge differences betweenAmari and Savion in terms of
like the quality of prospect that they are, but their
potential to not pan out is similar and I think would have

(26:06):
to take a a similar path to get to that point.
All right, I see the mic to you,Jake.
Sorry for ranting, man. I I've like completely like
moved on from all the picks. I feel like at this point I'm
trying to like do other things this summer at the moment.
But yeah, a a couple things thatstood out to me with Savion is

(26:37):
1. The fact that Stano is, is
saying all this like with with the creative usage, like doesn't
surprise me because Dobbs, Wicks, Golden and Reed are on
this team. Like, I'm sorry, like if I he's
like probably the 5th on the list of like, hey, I want you to

(26:58):
run this dig route. Like that's just that's just how
it is at the moment for me. And I think for them as well.
Do I think with Savion, the the rare kind of throttle control,
you know, the deceleration ability, the hip sink for such a

(27:20):
bigger guy is very impressive. He can make some, some out of
body plays at the catch point, which is, which is really
exciting. And yeah, he's not super stiff.
And and I think that was to me, for me at least, the biggest
criticism I had of Watson when he was drafted was man, no, this

(27:41):
is a lot stiffer of a player like this is there's a reason
he's going to get a lot of like crossers and and go routes and,
you know, touches in the backfield because he just isn't
this super, you know, controlledplayer when changing direction.
And Savion has that. And I think it it does give you

(28:03):
the opportunity of like, Hey, hecan be like pseudo RV 2 or like,
you know, he could be the adjuster a little bit in the
formation of, you know, having him block, but also like you
have to keep tabs on him, you know, if he's going to help as a
blocker. But at the same time, like if
we're under center, who knows what's going to happen is, is
there some maybe Ben skuronic there as well of like, yeah,

(28:24):
we'll put him in the backfield because, you know, he can block
and he can release into the flats and he can you know, he
can take advantage of that and play action like absolutely.
And then you watch the double catching and then you watch the
kind of inconsistent route depthbased on what's being called.
And then you see some inconsistencies with the route
spacing and and all of that. So I think he can, again, I

(28:45):
think that I don't know if if TCU giving him the rock in a lot
of those scenarios of, yeah, you're just going to get the
direct snaps and all that maybe hindered, you know, his
attention to detail, you know, at playing true receiver.
Maybe maybe just didn't get as many reps in, in practices in
doing that. So you didn't get that, you
know, brought along, but I do think, you know, hey, we're

(29:10):
we're we're in the NFL now. Like if we're going to be asking
you to take some of these gadgettouches and kind of be a
versatile weapon while also developing as a receiver, I
think you have to kind of embrace all of that.
And and so I hope he does. I'll I'll it's it's going to be
fun to watch him in pre season. I think over everyone else.
Golden's just the golden. The questions are the questions

(29:33):
with Golden like it's very cut and dry, should be instant
impact probably isn't going to be the world beater that maybe
everybody thinks he's going to be, at least in my opinion.
But I think he's going to be very, very quality.
I think. Hold on, hold on.
Are you specifically talking about 25 or just in general?
Yeah, I mean, I don't think like, I just don't think

(29:55):
Golden's going to become, you know, Puka or Brown or Jefferson
or any of these guys that are like just insane at the top of
of every receiver list where they should be.
I think I think Golden can easily settle himself into the
Smitty tier perhaps. And again, I think that that

(30:21):
tier may vary to those based on their opinion of Devante Smith.
Mine is very high, probably relative to the rest.
But I do think like you. Oh, I loved, I loved like, I I
think he can settle into that tier.
I just don't think and you know,I think people are pointing this
out. Well, not to get derailed again,
but like that might be where Marv sits.

(30:41):
Like Marv may not end up being that dude, but he might be like
a dude where you're like, yeah, no, he's he's he's the one.
That's fine. It's not he's just not like the
like out of this world player. So like golden can reach that.
I just don't I I'm hoping that Green Bay fans don't see
receiver first round and think, well, we've got, you know, CD

(31:03):
lamb on our team, you know, or something like that, because I
don't I don't want to, you know,push the expectations, you know,
to the moon or anything like that.
But again, him and Abuka are going to be two guys that stick
around for a long time and are going to provide tons of impact.
Are they ever going to be upper echelon elite?
Probably not, but I still think they are.

(31:24):
They are quality, quality players.
And so for Savion to kind of pull this thing back to where I
was, it's like there's so much excitement there of like play to
play. You want to see consistency,
whether it be the hands, whetherit be the routes, all of that
stuff. So like Golden's going to be a
consistent player. Like is he able to kind of use

(31:45):
the speed a little bit more, right?
Is that speed real? Can he unlock it?
Right? Is, is was the nagging like foot
injury kind of around the ankle?Like was that a problem?
And he didn't get to show that that unlock speed?
Maybe, maybe. So with Savion, it's just more
of like, as you said, you you call him raw because all the
physical stuff is there is all the mental stuff going to work

(32:07):
its way into his game at the NFLlevel, I think is like the
biggest thing for me. It's just, yeah, it's
consistency. It's the mental stuff, like all
all that stuff that that the elite of elite receivers have
stacked day after day, month after month, year after year.
Can he ever reach that? Because I mean, you're still

(32:28):
looking at, you know, is this who Green Bay envisions to be a
Watson replacement? Maybe it's not out of the realm
of possibility how where these guys settle into their roles.
So again, in the third round, are you swinging for the fence?
I have no problem with that. I, I think it's the perfect spot

(32:49):
to do it based on a, a, a lot ofwhat was there.
I, I think there were certain prospects everybody probably
liked more than who was available or who was available
then then Savion who, who end upbeing the pick.
But I mean, that's, it's the perfect area to swing like
you're swinging. Marshawn Lloyd was a nice swing
last year, right? It's we'll see how that goes.

(33:09):
But yeah, that's, that's kind ofwhere I'm at in Savion.
I, I think there's a lot of exciting things to work with.
It just feels very Watsony, except with the throttle
control. I, I feel like that's maybe the
one big difference between the two.
Jeff, thank you for the question.
I really appreciate that. It was, it was a fun
conversation. So I kind of feel like we have

(33:32):
talked enough about the wide receivers over the last few
weeks in the offensive line. I, I think we should try and
avoid offensive line tonight because we'll easily go an hour
on it again and they completely neglect some other positions.
But I am kind of curious, Jake, to hear your thoughts on the

(33:55):
wide receivers versus the rest of the North's secondaries.
The the Bears, I would say, in my opinion, clearly have the
best secondary of the other three teams.
Lions certainly have some potential, you know, and Kirby

(34:19):
and Branch obviously are what they are and they're pretty
good. But the corners are just super
suspect and you just really continue to be nervous about
corner there if I'm a a Lions fan.
So, you know, if you're looking at the Vikings secondary, I got
one name for you, Brian Flores, because that's the only name

(34:43):
that is, you know, scares you atall the actual players that he
has to work with in that secondary are, you know, mid at
best, you know, NFL wide. I, I think that we will easily
face much more difficult secondaries just in any average
week than we would going up against Minnesota were it not

(35:05):
for Ryan Flores. So I just really respect a ton
as a play caller. So respect the players, not so
much respect the play caller. Absolutely.
Where are you out on the Bears and and Lions, though?
Yeah, 'cause all right, I, I have to make sure this is right.

(35:26):
Yeah. OK.
Carlton Davis did join the Patriots.
OK. I thought so.
Had to double check that. Yeah, I think the Bears other
than against Stevenson, like Gordon plays the nickel very
well. I think he has done a really
nice job there. So maybe it's more of like

(35:47):
corner 2 that I that I'd be, youknow, I think be more willing to
attack. But as you said, I mean, when it
comes to the Vikings, when I'm. I'm pulling up their depth chart
now. I I know they brought Murphy
back, but like other than other than that, like I don't think
I'm like, oh, wow, like this is super, super good.

(36:11):
Like I I can't wait to see, you know, this guy go up against one
of our receivers just because again, I'm looking at this
Isaiah Rogers, Jeff Akuda, MakaiBlackman, who's coming off of a
pretty significant injury, Dwight Mclothern, who is, you
know, a corner of Arkansas. Like this.

(36:31):
Just like the the names are not great outside of Murphy, who,
you know, may play more nickel when the Vikings get into, you
know, obvious passing looks because he want you want to take
those those free access plays over the middle, which totally
understand that. But yeah, I mean, the secondary
it comes down to to Flores and Detroit is hoping Rake straws

(36:56):
got something and hoping Arnold doesn't have 18 penal, whatever
the number of penalties. It was a it was a massive number
of penalties. Arnold just seemed to panic a
lot, which you didn't see on film as much at Alabama, which
you saw it a couple times. But like, he seemed very
controlled and and understandingthat he had the speed and he had

(37:20):
the technique to to hang with anybody on the outside.
So it was just very weird to seehim panic a lot, which again,
and I think shows you the the jump to the NFL is no joke.
And why draft picks, you know, they just don't always ban out
the percentages speak for themselves.
Yeah, I the Lions, they're in a weird, weird spot where I don't

(37:47):
think them, I, I, I, I think anybody could finish 4th in this
division, but it wouldn't. I, I sure I think anybody could
do it this year. I, I don't think there's any
definitive consensus I'm lookingat like if McCarthy plays fine,
I think JJ, you might have mentioned it last week or the
week before of like, McCarthy plays fine.
Like, you know, Darnold's not some world beater either.
So if McCarthy plays fine, like they're still a good team.

(38:11):
And so like they can be, you know, right in the thick of
things. Absolutely the lions maybe they
don't skip a beat and they're still, you know, out scoring
teams while the the pass rush and the safeties kind of they're
they're hanging their head on that as much as possible on
defense. But it could come crashing down
like the interior offensive linewe talked about at the top of
Frank Ragnar and all these guys like guys on the way out, they

(38:33):
could be in serious trouble. And so if if they don't get a
lot from rake straw who thin frame, not the fastest or the
quickest, right Jameson there there was a there was a play
that they showed from from OTA, say for the Lions, like
Jameson's release was was wickedbad.
It was like, you know, release and his work to stack looked

(38:55):
like almost he was running around a circle and he still
still wins downfield. And it's like, well, if you
don't got enough speed that Jameson feels like he doesn't
even have to like run a proper release and route stem to defeat
you, Like, that's not super encouraging.
But maybe, again, I think for a race draw, it's going to have to
be, is he going to be physical enough at the line of scrimmage

(39:18):
to reroute, disrupt? Because otherwise he just
doesn't have the speed. And again, he's already doing
with the A-frame that you don't see a lot on on the outside.
So I'm not at all worried about the Lions.
I think Golden and Wicks especially should be dusting
these guys. You know, Reid might have a

(39:41):
trickier assignment depending onif Branch is going to play
nickel in certain situations against Green Bay just to
contain Reid. I still think Reid has enough
twitch and ability to, you know,to get some wins there.
So yeah, the Lions not as concerned, the Bears much more
so because Jalen can lock down one side.

(40:04):
You're going to have to chase the two.
You're going to have to but theyand and the Bears know that
though, that's the other thing. They know that.
So I would really want to get the Bears all all three of these
teams, especially the Bears, I would want to get them in nickel
and dime as much as possible andand really stretch their depth.

(40:24):
Because the one thing that the Packers freaking have on offense
is, yes, we can run 5-6 guys outthere who are all, you know,
pretty equal talent to each other.
And like, eventually we're goingto find somebody in your defense
that we can pick on. So, hey, you may lock down three
guys, you know, but unless you're, you know, really making

(40:47):
life miserable for Jordan, I think he's going to find
somebody. So that, that that would be, you
know, particularly against the NFC North, like honestly, I
maybe like, even though I like the starters for Chicago the
best, maybe we'd feel the best about Detroit's ability to slow

(41:09):
down a a high volume passing attack, largely because of their
linebackers. I think that, you know, if you
if you are able to stay more in a in a base formation, you're
their backers are much more capable of of doing some damage
in the passing game then Minnesota and Chicago by a by a

(41:30):
long shot. Yeah, like in base is like
Reuben Hippolyte starting for Chicago.
I'm gonna be honest, that's the first time I've ever heard that
name. Reuben Hippolyte.
They picked him on day three. But like, man, yeah, I in base,

(41:51):
yeah. I want the Lions the least.
Well, this is a freaking thing because especially if, well, I
know Anzalone's in that kind of dispute or whatever contract
wise it sounds like. So that could change things a
little bit. But yeah, when you have Campbell
kind of being a hammer right up front, he's 240, whatever.

(42:12):
Like that's dangerous stuff. When they have less corners on
the field, they are in much, much better shape.
You know, then, oh, they have clients have DJ Reed.
Yeah. Well, the Lion, the Lions are
stacked defensively like the Bears, you know, depending on
what you think of Tremaine, LikeI, I, I think they are average

(42:37):
to fine at linebacker. And then like, I hate the
Vikings linebacker. I mean, their situation, it's, I
think it's just Van Ginkle and Blake Cashman.
I think it's Andrew Van Ginkle and Blake Cashman and Ginkle
rushes. So he's not even like a yeah.
I mean, they're not even a 425. They're like a 515.

(43:00):
They're like a they're like a hybrid.
Hey, we're not either one of these.
We're not either one of these. We don't care.
Yeah, Van Kinkle is the Sam because he rushes Turner kind of
like is in that weird place as well.
Yeah. They're Pace and Cashman are

(43:21):
fine. Like, boy, looking at the
Vikings secondary, it's just kind of very funny to look at
'cause they lost, they didn't have Brand Flores.
What's a heck of a coach they had whoever the Lions DC is
stepping up. Like I would be like ready to.
I'd be waking up Sunday morning,you know, ravenous, ready to

(43:44):
attack. You know that that's secondary,
but Flores puts a nice little blanket on it because he's
playing palms or palms on one side, quarters on the other, or
he's playing six and you get 4 to one side and two to the other
in terms of the cover. Like he, he's a menace.
So it will be, it will be an unfortunate day when Haffley

(44:05):
leaves to take a head coaching gig.
It will also be an unfortunate day if I, I would assume when.
But again, he's suing the league.
I don't know if the league is, you know, Flores, Flores is
never going to be a head coach in the end.
Yeah. So then that's a problem.
He's not just going to stick around, you know, in Minnesota
forever, which is he's going to stick around until until, like,

(44:28):
personal conflict pushes him out, whether that's, you know,
him not liking the head coach or, you know, yeah, what,
whatever. Like at at some point, I think
he'll want to move on just to a different environment.
But he is not going to get any more looks at at head coach, you
know, and like, even if you did really like what he did with the

(44:53):
with the Dolphins and I, you know, I, I more or less liked
it. I didn't really have a problem
with, with the job that he did there.
And even if you are a person whofeels the problem is still
there, he sits in the office making picks, Yeah.
And signing guys, yeah, that's the real problem.

(45:14):
Even if you are a person who 100% sides with Brian, Brian
Flores and you think he did nothing wrong and you think that
the Dolphins and the Broncos andthe Steelers and, you know,
whoever else mistreated him, if you think that they are all 100%
in the wrong and it's completelybinary.
Look, the NFL gangs together sometimes and like there is no

(45:36):
shot and like, you know, I don'twant to have a like a full
shooter Sanders conversation. But like the yeah, the the the,
the biggest factor in shooter falling was that his amount of

(45:58):
talent compared to the amount ofheadache that the NFL teams felt
he was going to be for them, youknow, due to his dad, that it
didn't outweigh each other. And I guarantee you that the NFL
owners, all of them together collectively do not feel that

(46:18):
the benefit that you get from Brian Flores as a head coach
outweighs the potential headachethat they think that he could
be. And again, like, I'm trying to
be as neutral as possible here and just like put that
completely just in the mouths ofthe owner.
But that's just where it is. Yeah, the owners 100% do this.
So yeah, Joseph Gleeson, is there a precedent of DCS getting

(46:44):
paid lots of money to not try for head coaching jobs
elsewhere? Or are the guys like Spags all
post failed head coach gigs? Like, you know, a little column
a, little column B, you know, like part of the problem is like
there's just not a huge amount of ability to pay the amount of

(47:06):
money that it would take for a guy because like every single
coach in the NFL wants to be a head coach. 100% of them do, you
know, you get down to the quality control guy for the
Bengals, like he wants to be a head coach.
So you occasionally will see like Ben Johnson situation where

(47:27):
he just did not like the optionsthat were there.
He didn't want to be the Seahawks or the Commanders head
coach, and he clearly felt that they were going, I forgot
Carolina. But he clearly felt that he was

(47:48):
an attractive enough candidate that he was still going to have
his pick of the litter a year later.
And he wanted to see what other options were were going to come
available to them, to him. And if memory serves, he did get
more money from the Lions as a result of that, that that he
didn't, you know, let a good crisis go to waste.

(48:08):
And he's like, hey, listen, I'm willing to come back, but you're
going to have to make it worth my while.
But I definitely think that him coming back had way more to do
with what he thought of Seattle and Washington and the other
options available. But like, those were the 2 than
it did money or you know, like, OK, I live in Michigan.

(48:29):
I hear a lot of chatter from Lions fans all the time.
Like they were adamant that he the reason he was coming back
was because he believed the Lions could win a Super Bowl and
he just loved the Lions that much.
Like it's a nice idea and I can see the appeal of wanting to
believe that you don't pass the best job opens.

(48:51):
That's that's the sense. It's it's yeah, it's a bit of
both for sure. It's like, oh, I'm I'm totally
fine getting a little more moneyto go chase this one.
And then when the right job opens, I will take it.
So yeah, it is. Yeah.
It's probably, yeah, more complex than the the one or the
other thing for sure. Yeah.
And and I was just, I didn't mean to interrupt, but I was, I

(49:16):
was going to say the to Joseph'squestion, like DC is the one
thing that with the Spags and the Fangio guys of like they've
tried the head coaching thing. Would they do it again?
Spags maybe. I think Fangio's suit just super
dumb with it. I, I think so when you, the
other thing is the, I mean, teams would prefer offensive

(49:41):
minded head coaches. Why?
Because if you hire a defensive minded head coach and your
offensive coordinator is awesome, they're going to be
leaving, they're going to be leaving.
You're going to have to replace them.
Now you can still have guys who Campbell obviously played
offense, so he knows more about it, but he's obviously also

(50:02):
been, you know, he, he, he definitely got the look because
of the leadership stuff. And so if you have DC's who are
good leadership guys, who are good hiring guys who can bring
in the right staff, who can keepbringing in good staff, right as
as guys leave, like you can do that, but because the offensive
minded guys are are going to be off the board for first, right.

(50:28):
You know, the the DC's almost would rather be paid more just
to have that like kind of job security, right?
Like Spags, I think hanging justlike, yeah, I'll, I'll coach
with Reed. Keep paying me like we're good
here, like chasing rings, because I don't want to have to
deal with all of that, right? Like some of these aging DCS are
very much in that boat. The young guys are going to want

(50:51):
the job, right? But I I do think you, you will
get, you know, DCS get paid lotsof money because they don't want
the gig and they're doing well. And yeah, teams will of course
continue to you maybe increase that salary a little bit as they
go on. Like I'm sure Philly, if if
Fangio continues to stick aroundand they continue to be really,

(51:12):
really effective, like he's going to probably get a little
bump in salaries, you know, nextyear whenever.
But yeah, when when it comes to like halfly, right, which I
think is what what Joseph's talking about.
Like I think you're hoping that I think you're hoping that you
know, the teams that are going to fire head coaches.
So I'm trying to think who's going to be on the hot seat.

(51:34):
Obviously the New York Giants isis a big one that comes to mind
immediately. Probably Indianapolis is another
one, right? Like that.
It feels like they're they're finally, I think coming to a
head with the GM and I think that will mean the head coach is
out. Who else?
I think, I think Tennessee, they're going to let them go

(51:55):
with the QB. Maybe Dallas, if
Schottenheimer's was like not good.
And like they, you know, they were kind of, they were kind of
in that weird wait and see mode.Well, I, I'll, I'll throw 2
names at you. They're pretty hot.
Tell me anything about these spicy takes.
Zach Taylor and Kevin Stefanski.Like the Browns just went three

(52:18):
and four. Yeah, the Browns.
Yeah, the Browns, Zach Taylor's listen, career winning
percentage through six years is,I mean, he's under 500.
Yeah. Listen, the the Bengals just
don't do that. Like Marvin Lewis stayed on way
too long. People were waiting on Taylor to

(52:41):
be gone. Like, even after the Super Bowl,
they were like, yeah, they got there.
But like, not because of him. Do you like Zach Taylor?
Because I've always been a Taylor.
No, no, OK. I cannot stand him.
He he, I I don't. He's getting carried by three
players. He's getting carried by three
players. Something that's like not, you
know, mainstream consensus at all.

(53:03):
And getting carried by three players.
He is. Yeah.
Period. Yeah.
Three players are keeping his job.
Other. I mean, yeah, I it, it is what I
mean, Anna Rumo. Anna Rumo was really the reason
they got there to the Super Bowl, right?
Like the offense didn't play well against Tennessee.
They didn't play that good against the Raiders either.

(53:24):
So it was kind of like, well, we're we're down.
We got to shut down the homes like they're a weird organs.
Like they're not going to like, oh, they've got Taylor.
You know, we're we're competitive enough, right?
We've made the playoffs. We've made a Super Bowl.
They're they're strange. They're not going to like, oh,
we're not breaking the bank for a new head coach.
Like they they would be like thelast team to go after Ben
Johnson, but they would should have been the first team to go

(53:46):
after Ben Johnson. Well, coach Len here has has
like coach Len's comment the Bengals do business weird over
there. Like that's the most accurate
thing you can say tool for this.Shut your face.
We listen the the chat is going on a big Jeff Haffley

(54:07):
conversation like they're just going on with us.
Jacksonville. They just hired Cohen.
Unless it's like disastrous and it's like Urban Meyer.
I don't think we're in it, but but I wanna I wanna hit.
Oh, shoot, where'd he even go? Here's here's the kind of the
beginning. OK, here we go.
Tool for this says I don't know if Haffley is gunning for a head

(54:29):
coach job from his perspective, eventually, definitely.
But I think he's happy for now. And so this was kind of the
beginning of the thread and there's a number of people
commenting on it. And I 100% disagree.
I I don't think this could possibly be further from the
truth. Just knowing Jeff Haffley the

(54:51):
way I do, you know, following him, you know, through the NFL,
his his first time around his time with the 49ers, going to
Ohio State, jumping before the the season was even done to
Boston freaking College of all places.
You know, sorry, like we love the we love the North on this
channel, but still it's Boston College.

(55:12):
And like, it was not a a great situation for Boston College
either. And just talking to people who
know him, Haffley has always desperately wanted to be a an
NFL head coach. And he went the college route
thinking at the time that college head coach was going to

(55:34):
be the easiest stepping stone toNFL head coach.
And it was kind of around that time the NFL teams started
really feeling burned by dippinginto college ranks for head
coaches. So like, at the time that he
kind of made that decision for himself, it made kind of some

(55:55):
sense. And then it immediately looked
bad. Like, not even anything to do
with how he did with Boston College, although I don't think
he did very well with Boston College at all.
But just like, you know, betweenPat Fitzgerald and Lincoln
Riley, and that's a good name. The Cardinals guy was the
Cardinals guy. The freaking home.

(56:19):
Cliff Coach Cliff. Cliff, Cliff.
Yeah. Cliff Kingsbury.
I thought that's where you're talking about.
Yeah. Yeah.
So. So you had the you had this
string of, and then Urban Meyer,you had this string of NFL
teams, like really publicly feeling burned by going the
college route and like, they cutit off cold Turkey.

(56:41):
Yeah. And so Haffley then gets the
opportunity to jump from the college ranks to come be an
NFLDC. And clearly in summer, you know,
spring 2024, at that point in time, NFL coordinator was like
the best place to be if you wantto go be an NFL head coach.

(57:02):
Like that's that's his end goal.I'm sure that he loves the
players that he's coaching in Green Bay.
I'm sure he loves Matt and the staff, but I I don't think it
would have to be any kind of a decent team at all to make an
offer to him for him to jump. I think Carol, I like pick the
crappiest team you could think of.
If they offered it to him, I think he would jump with the

(57:22):
chance to be an NFL head coach. I really do.
You know, I, I don't, I, I thinkhe would take some opportunities
that I wouldn't take if I would if I had.
There's a couple that I would say no.
Yeah. Oh, for sure, Yeah, yeah, One of
them is down in Texas. I don't.

(57:43):
Well, another one would be in the thing.
I'll say here's here's the thing.
I don't think so, because for a couple things Coastline's saying
the Titans hold on as far as he's saying halfly to the
Titans. I think he's saying Hotsy maybe,
But Brian Callahan, I guess he'smaybe he's not.

(58:04):
Maybe he's not, though. He wasn't like he's stuck around
with and they brought a new GM in and clearly he was on either
on the same page as the new GM. I don't think he's getting fired
in year one with Cam Ward, new QB number one overall pick.
They're going to they're going to let this see this through.
Maybe that's not what he's talking about.
Maybe he's saying like hafly might not take the Titans job.

(58:26):
I don't know. But there are there are some
definitely some spots. We, we kind of mentioned the
Giants, Dallas, Indy for sure. We, you know, Pittsburgh.
That's interesting. That's interesting.
Pittsburgh maybe, I don't know, Tomlin's not going anywhere.

(58:47):
We're going to be sitting here adecade from now.
This one. I mean, like if Tomlin wants
out, I think it's there. Pittsburgh won't fight.
Why wouldn't you want out? Maybe, I don't know, maybe the
9:00 and 8:00 grind is, is tiresome for him.
I don't know. It would be tiresome for me, if
I'm being honest, if there's anySteelers fans, but like we
talked about the state of Ohio, like are we sure like I don't

(59:12):
know. I don't know what J JS up to now
quip besmirching Ohio. So, so that's where those are
kind of the teams right now. And I, I had to go back to the
just to kind of put a cap on this just to kind of, oh, halfly

(59:34):
versus the field type of thing. Went back and was trying to look
through like, OK, who are who are the guys that we met that
that didn't get one this past year who were being talked about
a lot? Joe Brady big one.
Buffalo Bills offensive coordinator Zach Robinson is
somebody who is not on any list that I think people are going to
start taking notice of. He is now in Atlanta running

(59:57):
that offense as the OC came overfrom LA.
Todd Monken, Yeah, Todd Monken from Baltimore, if he wants to
make the jump to head coach off at offensive coordinator right
now, like those are the offensive guys.
And then you have still funny, there's some talk about Anthony
Weaver already from Miami, who did a great job last year.

(01:00:20):
No, no complaints here. But that's an interesting one.
But there were a couple others. Hafley was was a part of mentor
from the Chargers. People are already, you know,
highlighting, which I think is it is a fair one as well.
Was there one more? I mean, let me ask you this out
there. But like, and then Cliff,

(01:00:40):
Cliff's another one, which, yeah, I don't know.
Do people want to try that again?
I'm not sure. But those are kind of, I think
the guys right now and and that can change, but those seem to be
the guys who would probably have, you know, be in that
competition to him with the top at the top of the list.
So yeah, we did mention Indy. Yeah, Indy would be in there for

(01:01:03):
sure. So I think those are your guys.
I don't know if you had any others, JJ that were.
No, I really didn't. No, I I really didn't.
But I will say just the last like 2 minute, you know, as
you're running through all the all those names just there like
this could shape up to be a muchmore desirable head coach crop

(01:01:29):
than we've seen in a while. There's been a few years in a
row where you're just looking atit and you're like, OK, there's
one or zero attractive options here.
And I could see maybe a handful being available this time.
So that could be interesting. Not that the Packers are looking
display all the articles that you see out there right now

(01:01:49):
about like the floor in the hot seat like and I I tweeted out
today what hit me if he's on thehot.
So like if they're going to firehim, like I'll just fire
halfway. What are we doing right?
Like in house is probably the way they go.
Like this is an insane conversation to have but I'm
just saying like. I don't know what you.
Want halfway as a head coach. I mean, first time head coach,

(01:02:12):
you know, I mean, he's already been in the building, right?
I know. But like he's a defense like the
Packers with the defensive mind and head coach, I guess freaks
me out a little bit. That's fair.
There's just a lot of negatives to go and defense.
I just don't think I would like be like, Oh yeah, Cliff, come on
down. Joe Brady, I don't know, kind of

(01:02:33):
iffy on that. He feels very Dallas to me in
the next cycle. I got that weird feeling about
Joe Brady. Dallas.
I'll tell you who I want, Mentor.
Give me the former Titans guy, Matt Lafleur.
I'll take him as I head coach. Offensive minded, brilliant,

(01:02:56):
high character guy. Yeah, for sure.
Gets a lot of great eyebrows, you know?
Yeah. Perfect.
Yes, yes, very good. OK, listen, listen.
Re railing. Re railing, re railing.
OK? We're getting back on this.
Look back on the tracks. You're not doing this to us,
people not derailing us. This is like the seat is the

(01:03:16):
cold side of the pillow. Yeah, Stop it.
Stop a tool for this. Stop it.
I'm trying to get back to football.
Stop. We are on.
We're on football. What do you mean?
No? We're supposed to be talking
about the Packer roster. This not imaginary coaching
vacancies that don't exist. Freaking tool for this.
Do you read? Oh, Tyler Dishall.

(01:03:37):
I went to the Barber last week and told and told them to give
me a le floor. So, you know, your little
YouTube profile picture kind of kind of looks Leflurry like
that's kind of the little Leflurhere.
Honestly. Yeah, kind of shut up tool
because you're picking on you'rebeing mean.
That's not football, Matt. Leflur's haircuts aren't.

(01:03:59):
But you know, so here's here's where you know, I said we're not
going to talk about like we shouldn't get really in depth on
our offensive line, but let's like, let's just take what we
said about our offensive line already and just talk about the
NFC North defensive lines. Sure, because like, obviously

(01:04:23):
our big question and we're not going to talk names.
We're literally just talking about recapping our big
question, of course, are the twoguard spots.
So with that in mind, obviously the Lions have the scariest
defensive line in the NFL outside of maybe Philly.

(01:04:44):
Like, you know, you could throw San Francisco in the mix at at
at times. For sure Rams got something nice
brewing, but which you know, credit to them for putting that
together. They are more of a pass rush
unit now. They brought in Puna Ford, which
should help them on early downs,but they are a very the Rams are

(01:05:04):
still a very pass rush heavy defensive line.
Like you don't see them. Well, pass rush is what scares
me though. I mean, like what when our
offense crumbles is when we can't get the passing game
going. I'm just more thinking of like
both, like who's got both that like really like, oh, we can
control gaps and also can't get after you.

(01:05:27):
Like those are like the scary guys.
And I think San Francisco's trying to be that, right?
They drafted 2 guys, CJ W, Alfred Collins, who are like
nose tackles, but also like West's pretty good presser
percentage, right, as far as thenose tackle goes.
And they have Bosa, right? Of course.
So, and they just traded for Bryce Huff.

(01:05:47):
So it was Huff had a good, good thing going with Sala in New
York. So, you know, maybe there's, you
know, they're building some out there.
So I do like that shot. But yeah, Detroit being able to
potentially, it just depends on how McNeil comes back, right?
Is he going to come back? OK off of that?
I think it was ACL well and and them drafting Tylek Williams in
the first round is telling. Tylek is a run stopper, gap

(01:06:11):
control players and and I think that, you know, 'cause 'cause he
was a senior got a lot of playing time at Ohio State.
I think like of the defensive tackle options that you could
try and, you know, plug and playin place of Olympic Neil, you're
going to go with a rookie. You could do a lot worse than
Tylek Williams. You know, doesn't add a lot as a

(01:06:33):
pass rusher, but just really reliable run stopper with a lot
of veteran experience for sure. You know, you got DJ Reader,
obviously Aiden Hutchinson like their their defensive line
situation kind of in my opinion,could only be undone by the new

(01:06:54):
defensive coordinator not being up to the task.
I forget his last name. Kelvin, something Kelvin, not
Benjamin, Kelvin Gibbons or something.
Gibson. It's not Sampson, is it?
I think it's Gibson. Kelvin Gibson.
You know, or if like if McNeil, that's Houston's coaches.
What I was thinking of in basketball.

(01:07:19):
What's the guy's name? I'm going to go Gibson.
Kelvin Gibson. Hold on.
Joseph Gleeson, Kelvin Shepard, There it is.
Dang it, Dang it. OK All right, so if McNeil
really is not available and Ty League Williams is just not good

(01:07:40):
enough in your one, you know, you could have some problems, I
guess. And Aaron Glenn isn't there to
make her magic happen. But again, he's off of an injury
as well. I believe so.
But but again, like you, you need 2D tackles like they're 4
down front. You need 2 for sure.
And I would say reader is 1. And then, yeah, but like he's

(01:08:05):
again, he's a pass rush. Bring him in to to go get after
guys, right. I think that Broderick Martin,
who they drafted, I think a lot higher than I think people
thought he was going to go. He's like a third potential nose
tackle. Yeah, it might have been third
round. It was third or fourth.
So like they've they've clearly like decided to put a ton of
like big bodied guys and have a few of them be pass rushers.

(01:08:28):
So I mean, they they do look kind of sad.
As long as, you know, injuries don't destroy them again.
But it's going to be the guy, you know, and yeah, Hutch coming
off that that big time injury they did.
They don't have a lot after him.You know, are they going to be
getting snaps from Hassanine in year 1?

(01:08:52):
Don't know they'll they'll have to.
I would Pascal Pascal is he's he's he's got that he's he he he
might have been just two tweener.
Unfortunately for the league, which there are some of those
right, and that could be a scheme thing as well.
But him Marcus Davenport like yeah, it's it's not ideal.

(01:09:13):
So like, if, if the guys cannot come back 100%, which I don't
think they should be expected tolike we it is, is McNeil Joseph
put in the chat if Mcneil's coming off ACL is that if that's
the case, like which just makingdidn't think it was, but let me
just it might be. And that's like, again, we, we
talked about, you know, Jenkins and and you've talked about a

(01:09:34):
lot JJ with Jenkins, you know, coming off of that injury.
And now Watson's going to come off of that, right?
Like it's not going to be easy, right?
And we're on not we're not on nonatural grass either in Detroit,
man. We've got you know, the the turf
is there so well, in the worst, some of the worst turf in the
league. Yeah, I don't know that it could

(01:09:55):
be could be a scary situation. If it's if it's well, the you
know, if he if he gets rushed back.
So like they, they, they there'sa lot of talent there.
But it's again, if the if the Lions injury.
So yeah, it wasn't an early teareither.
So it was if if the Lions can't really put it together at D
line, is there a single good defensive line in the NFC North?

(01:10:20):
Like miss me with Grady Jarrett and Javon Dexter and Shamar
Turner. Miss me with Harrison Phillips
and Jonathan Bullard. Like, you know, and it's well
documented how you and I feel about the Packers defensive line
just like crazy thin depth, you know, like we're, we're scraping
to come up with 5D tackles to stash on the on the initial 53.

(01:10:44):
And that's, you know, including Kenny Clark as a starter, who we
don't really want as a starter. It seems there's more talent on
the edge than there is a defensive tackle in this
division right now, which, like if the Bears get something out
of ODI Yingbo, you know, who's dealt with a lot of injuries in
in you know, he was he he had anAchilles tear before he was even

(01:11:06):
drafted by the Colts. They get anything out of him.
I think that's a win. If they get anything out of
Austin Booker, who was built kind of like a like a palm tree,
covet in impressive there. And they've kind of done they've
kind of done the like, let's build the committee at defensive
tackle. So like, wait, explain built
like a palm tree. I'm sure that's a common phrase.

(01:11:27):
Pretty thin. He's pretty thin boy.
He's not like he's not like these girthy redwoods.
It's more of like you could doeshe have an Afro?
Does he have an? If he had an Afro and was thin
then the palm tree definitely really fits.
I don't know. Maybe never attend the Tata
Derschel's laughing at my joke. Like it just yeah, it seems like

(01:11:50):
yes, the the Grinard and Van Ginkel, potentially Dallas
Turner will see if we if they get anything more out of him.
And like, yes, they brought in Hargrave, which I think is more
interesting than Jonathan Allen,at least to me at this point in
their two careers. So like, yes, I think like
Hargrave, Granard, Van Kinkle and and Turner present more of a

(01:12:12):
pass rush issue. But I don't know if we're
looking at like, are Alan and Phillips going to do a lot for
you in in gap control against the run?
No, I think I fear Detroit more in that area, health willing,
right for them. So I I do think all three of
these defensive lines have theirwarts for sure.

(01:12:34):
The bears are kind of banking ona lot of potential and hope that
Grady Jarrett still has it and their young guys are going to
make that jump. So like they're betting a lot of
potential, which is, you know, kind of where, you know, there's
not a lot of proven there outside of sweat who even still
isn't like this supremely exceptional sack artist pressure

(01:12:55):
cooker, like this guy on the edge, top tier, you know,
technician athlete, all that stuff.
The Vikings are more pastors than rundy and the Lions are
kind of like could have everything but injuries.
So there's a lot of question marks.
And so Green Bay coming in with a unit that's, you know,
relatively healthy and kind of built to punch in the mouth a

(01:13:19):
little bit. Like I think they're in a really
good spot. They're in a really good spot
right now, especially, especially if what I think will
be I imagine they're starting five unless something wild
happens. Walker, Banks, Jenkins, Belton
and Tom, that's a beefy unit. Like come get some OK, like and

(01:13:43):
and all of that. It's interesting because there's
some really decent offensive lines in the division.
And then like the defensive tackles kind of brought across
the board. You're only impressed on paper
with Detroit and injuries out the wazoo, plus a new, you know,
DC. So.
Yeah. It's true.
And and when you look at the offensive lines, I don't know if

(01:14:04):
we want to kind of hit on that just because our defense, we
talked a little bit about Gary and Van Ness and and doing all
that stuff and, and Wyatt and hoping that Brooks and and Kenny
can find a little bit of something.
And maybe the Georgia guys will provide a spark as rookies,
which is a lot to ask. But yeah, Minnesota, of course,
Darris is coming off injury, right?
And I think that was also an ACL.

(01:14:27):
It sounds right. That was like week 5 or 6, I
think. So, you know, the, the, the
Vikings are in this weird spot where like they have great
coaching and like solid, solid, but not elite anywhere across
the entire roster. Like you have your superstars in

(01:14:49):
the wide receiver room and then that's kind of like it as far as
superstar. Like there's, there's not holes
on the Vikings roster, but also there's nowhere that really
scares you outside of like, well, this room, you know, like
they're fine, but the coach is really good.
Like you could see that like 5 times about the roster.
No, there's no question. Yeah, no, I I agree.
I think Darasaw, they just, I, Isaw this recently.

(01:15:14):
He's got the brakes on, but he'son, you know, doing on field
stuff. So good for him.
That's cool that that hopefully,you know, he'll be back and we
get to go best on best during the season because, yeah, when
healthy, he is one of the best. I think when when you talk
about, you know, left tackles, Brian O'Neill's done a nice job,
but they they really went, you know, and, and said, yeah, we

(01:15:36):
have a problem and they went andattacked it.
Good for them. Donovan Jackson in the first
round. They go get Will fries.
They go get Ryan Kelly as well. So, like, they, you know, you
can't can't fault them for, you know, they're they're making
sure that everything's in place as much as possible for McCarthy
to be to get going under center.So, yeah, again, like it the

(01:16:01):
Lions, they have a lot of questions now by the interior of
the offensive line. The Bears.
Jonah Jackson didn't really playlast year too much.
And and yeah, Toonie's good. But, you know, do you feel
comfortable with Braxton Jones or is Trapilo going to take
over? And it's going to be Trapilo and
Wright, maybe right playing the left and then Trapilo playing
right tackle. Like is that it's going to be

(01:16:23):
some shifting there? And then is Dolman the guy
right? Is it going to be just all wide?
Is it going to be all zone stuff?
Are they not going to get vertical in the run game?
If so, that's fine. If they are trying to do both,
there's a weakness there. Dolman not a powerful guy, quick
guy, quick guy, positioning guy,not a not a power guy.

(01:16:46):
So Bears have a few question marks as well along the
offensive line. I think the two that I'm more
confident in is right making a jump in Tooney than the rest
right now. So yeah, Minnesota, as you said,
their roster is, you know, doesn't wow you in a million

(01:17:09):
spots like Darrisaw Granard and and obviously the receivers,
Hawkinson has been always very steady player.
Again, the running backroom is is fine.
They they go get Jordan Mason for essentially nothing, which
you know, might actually help them out.
But yeah, they're just kind of plodding along with like a
really solid roster. And just as you said, not a lot

(01:17:31):
of like, oh, gaping holes because the gaping holes are
filled by the coaching staff, bywhat's going on at the sideline,
by the mines in the room. So can't imagine, could you
imagine what would go on if, youknow, if Detroit's roster went
healthy, had O'Connell and Flores, Nothing, nothing against

(01:17:53):
Dan Campbell, not at all. But like if they had those two,
which is kind of kind of kind ofdamning of damning indictment
of, of quasi like a little bit, He's, you know, they're still
having any picks. Well, that's what happens when

(01:18:13):
you give all your picks away andkeep moving up for guys like
it's, you know, and, and this was guys, we just run out of
picks. That's I, I don't know what to
tell you. This is why I never respected
Ryan Pace. Like he'd, he would grab, you
know, a couple good guys per draft cycle, but he only had a
couple picks because he kept giving.
I mean, you even look at like, you know, he's like moving up

(01:18:35):
like 4 times per draft. Like, Oh, I had to go get, go
get this, you know, sixth round wide receiver.
And so I got to trade up to go get him.
And I'm like, OK, you're not going to make picks next year.
And sure enough, you don't, you know, yeah, that's just, you
know, Vikings need to figure outhow to build a war chest of
picks. I think Goody could offer some

(01:18:57):
advice there. I think, you know, if if Quesi
is willing to, you know, give him a call, I think they, you
know, there might be there mightbe something there.
So, Adam Huddle, welcome. It says the Vikes are a Rodgers
away from the Super Bowl. You know what though, Jake,
thumbs up or down on that statement.
Do you do you agree with it? I I think it could happen if if

(01:19:18):
Rodgers truly embraces what O'Connell and them are doing.
Yeah, I could see that for sure.I could see it.
Aaron Rodgers. That's Nick Foles impression
down the stretch after a McCarthy injury.
Stays unsigned, watches Pittsburgh go 9:00 and 8:00
again and lose by 42 in the opening round and says no, I

(01:19:41):
want to wait for the opportunity.
There's no question. We've already had this
discussion. But like, yeah, if you asked me
to pick between the two, I'm laughing.
I'm laughing. You, you let me pick.
I would never go to Pittsburgh over Minnesota right now.
Like you know so. Are is Lazard coming as well?

(01:20:01):
Are we getting Lazard in Minnesota?
Oh, you know, and Jake Kumaro and Billy Turner and Jeff Janice
and hopefully Matt Orszack this time.
What are they? What do they need?
What do they need? What is who need the Vikings.
I mean, Jalen Naylor's a solid #3 but maybe, yeah, they go get

(01:20:24):
him. Yeah.
But see, he did it for one year.He mailed these do it for like 8
games in Minnesota. Like if, if, if McCarthy goes
down again. So you know, Yeah, Chris has the
answer. You ask for the Chris has it
DBS. You ask what you asked what does

(01:20:46):
Minnesota need? They do they do need.
Yeah, Chris has the answer. It's DBS.
But you've got a guy who's, you know, figuring it out in in the
room, coaching up these guys like they they 100% do.
Rasool Douglas still free agent,right?
Yeah, as far as I know. Yeah.
Yeah, they should be bringing him in.

(01:21:08):
They should be bringing him in, no question.
I I know what other team they should be bringing in.
Rasool Douglas. Probably, probably.
You're right. Yeah, you're right.
So it's it continues to just befuddle me.
The two positions on this rosterwith glaring, obvious needs that
they're not addressing of defensive line and cornerback.

(01:21:31):
I don't understand how Goody's looking at the just forget what
you think of the guys you have. Just look at the numbers.
The numbers are way below where they needed to be.
How many how many cornerbacks are we going to keep this year?
3 Like, like seriously, we can'tput together 5 without without

(01:21:52):
including, you know, seventh round rookie Micah Robinson, who
like, sure, he'll probably make the team, but like, don't you
want more than five corners on the roster?
Yeah, who? Are you even going to put on the
practice squad? Like, I mean genuinely the the
only other names out there, it'slike Kaelin King and nobody

(01:22:17):
watching, you know, You know, the next the next Rasul Douglas
is currently sitting in our we got a pile of six names here.
You know, Jonathan Baldwin. It's probably Isaiah Dunn, Kamal
Haddon, Tyron Herring, like one of those guys can be, you know,
it's probably Baldwin or or Haddon.
Yeah, the wings ready unless it's King, but I mean, I I like

(01:22:41):
king more than most. I'm I'm probably falling victim
to, you know, his second to lastyear in college the the way too
early pre draft hype that was unfounded.
But Coach Lenz says Douglas looked a step slow last year.

(01:23:03):
He could have been hurt, but I would like him back.
Yeah, again, I would just like some other bodies on the roster.
So we got Jair and Nate Hobbs. Jake really likes Nate Hobbs.
We got Keyshawn. I I would certainly say I like
Keyshawn better than Hobbs. We got Carrington.

(01:23:24):
I probably like Carrington aboutas well as I like Hobbs.
And then we got seventh round rookie Mikey Hobson.
So you know, with Jair back and I've always said he was going to
be back and Jake has always saidhe's going to be back.
Like, Nate Hobbs to the slot feels more likely than it would

(01:23:45):
have otherwise. Of course Keyshawn should be in
the slot, but certainly a chancethat he'll be on the boundary.
No, he doesn't. Like, I, you know, props to
Keyshawn for like his ambitions,but you look at his production
slot versus his production on the boundary.

(01:24:05):
Like man, lean into your strengths please.
Yeah. Tyler Derschl says Zach Tom is
running routes at wide receiver.How about Zach Tom to
cornerback? Haven't played boundary point.
Yeah, Zach, Tom to defensive tackle Chris says all we have is

(01:24:27):
slots and Carrington Valentine. I mean, like, you know, Gyre on
paper should be a A slot, but obviously he can, you know, play
like a Mamma jamma on the boundary.
And we've seen that, you know, on paper, like, he should be a
slot, right? Probably.
So, yeah, I don't disagree. Like, Valentine is the only
prototypical boundary corner that we have.
So Coach Lynn, can Bullard be onthe perimeter?

(01:24:51):
Do you think, Jake, can Bullard be an NFL football player?
We'll start with that. Yeah, he can.
Will he? I don't know.
Don't know. Would you place a three if, if
you were going to place a $3 beton him either being an NFL

(01:25:13):
football player or not being an NFL football player, where,
where would you put your money? It's a $3 bet.
I, I don't know. I don't know, 'cause I don't
know if he's just if, if they'regiving him a home, if they're
making him wear multiple hats again in year 2.
I I wish I knew what the if, if you, if I knew the plan, I would

(01:25:36):
feel more comfortable. Making the bet?
But I don't I don't know, I don't know what they're thinking
because it it as, as kind of people have have pointed out, a
lot of these guys play slot corner.
So is Bullard going to, you know, just be back at safety in

(01:25:57):
in a crowded group as well? Like he just, I don't know.
I don't know what the plan is. I would trust Malachi Starks a
little bit more outside corner, you know?
Yeah. Well, that would be fun.
A lot of wood. Coulda, shoulda, you know, how
would we got a nice fun time. We got we got the guys we got.

(01:26:18):
Yep. It's.
True, I'm not reading that out loud, but that's so well, we got
it like I'll read it Kozlen saying baby Green Bay's leading
into a position with secondary and a tool for this says they
call it Wii secondary. You know, here's here's the
great shout out to the Wii fenceand and versacea.

(01:26:43):
So no, Wii fence is not a versacea term.
That's a that's a metal floor original, is it?
Oh yeah, no, Wii fence is burnedaround for a while.
Well, I just figured it was stupid because I just figured it
was Versace because it was stupid.
So, oh, no, no, no, no, no. See, these are the things or or

(01:27:03):
has a history of naming things questionably and talking about
urine. Yeah.
Well, OK. I mean, you and I have X and
Evan Williams as the starters atsafety and then Bullard, like
rotating in a nickel, you know, assuming he can beat out Katan

(01:27:28):
and Keyshawn and Nate Hobbs and Zane Anderson.
Like that's kind of where we're at.
Yeah. Is it weird that I feel better
about our top four guys at safety, excluding Bullard, than
I do our top four at corner? No.

(01:27:52):
Like, so Xavier, Evan Williams, Katan and Zane Anderson, but
versus Jair Hobbs, Valentine andKeyshawn.
Is it weird that I feel better about the safeties?
It's weird that you're mentioning Zane Anderson.
I think that's the weird part. OK, so you want me to have Javon
in our top 4 safeties? Yeah, 'cause Zane, we, we've

(01:28:13):
already covered this. But Zane Anderson's not real, so
he can't be included there in the top four if he's not real.
Zane, you like the industry? If you like the office tool for
this and I have a clip for you, man, I'm sure there's probably

(01:28:35):
an office clip for a lot of things.
Coach Lynn says don't sleep on Oladapa.
Listen, there's two things that this channel does not sleep on,
Ed policy and Ketan Oladapa, right?
Never sleep on Oladapa. No chance.
Tool of this wants to know who was it wearing an Anderson
jersey at camp. Some people are saying it's

(01:28:56):
Aaron Rodgers looking for that one day contract to retire as a
Packer. Some are saying, hey, look at
this, you know, some are saying,of course, SUS, you know, Tom
Grossi. Yeah, maybe it's Grossi, I don't
know. This is a SUS comment from Tyler
Durschel. OK, 'cause I just speculated
that maybe Durschel was the one wearing the Zane Anderson

(01:29:18):
jersey. And now here he is going, oh,
here that Zane Anderson guy is aballer, man.
He's a stud. This is this is getting.
Yeah. What's what's going on here?
Tyler Derschel, What's going on here?
Are you even actually getting married, or is this your cover

(01:29:39):
story for every time you are away at OTAs?
Are you getting married or are you?
I am St. Anderson.
Oh, this is good. No, my my girlfriend's real,
man. You just don't know her.
She's from Canada. She's as real as Zane Anderson.
She goes to a different school. Oh.

(01:30:03):
Is Tyler Derschel Manti Te'o Part 2 question mark?
Oh my God, many are asking too old Zane Anderson.
Many are asking. Was Manti Te'o's girlfriend the
entire time? Could be.
Oh my gosh. OK, Coach Len says.
What's Ed Policy's first major item in business for the Green

(01:30:25):
Bay Packers? Obviously, it is to instate the
song that we wrote as the official Green Bay Packers theme
song, duh, that plays on the sledding hill round the clock
during, during the season. OK, life goal.
I I want Ed Policy someday to hear the song and to just be

(01:30:48):
aware that our YouTube channel exists and our Ed policy shtick
about him and he has to know that Ed policy day is a thing
that exists. Yes.
I that that would complete one of my few football goals.
I think I don't even need him tocome on that.

(01:31:09):
No, no, I just want to need him to come on here.
No, Yeah, I just want to know that he knows about it.
I don't even need to know that he knows.
No, no, I want him to know. I want to know that he knows.
I want someone to ask him about an oppressor.
He'd be like, yeah, I've heard of those guys.
Their song's very catchy. I like it like that.
Would. That's peak right there.

(01:31:33):
Once again, off the rails as usual.
Love that Chris likes the song. I appreciate you.
Thanks. Kind of did to ourselves.
Zayn Anderson Speaking of Zayn Anderson, is Isaiah Simmons
going to make the 53? We put him on there when we did
our official 53. You know, it's, it feels too

(01:31:56):
early for me here. Here's why I bring it up.
OK, this is the next position group that I want to kind of
stack up against. The rest of the league is kind
of universally when you hear people running through their
assessment of the Packers strengths and weaknesses, the

(01:32:19):
one of the first places they start after guard would be
linebacker. All right, we need three.
I would say we have 3 because I like Isaiah Mcduffie, Quay Edrin
and Mcduffie. A lot of people don't like Quay.
A lot of people don't like Mcduffie.
Whatever. Shut up, you're stupid.

(01:32:39):
I don't like Tyron Hopper, all right, He's he's solidly in the
Travis Glover, John Ford, Matt Orszack territory for me.
I mean, I'm happy to have him around as a special teamer, but
like, I don't want him counting,you know, in our linebacker room
as like, hey, he might be out there playing snaps for us.

(01:33:02):
So would can I ask this? Would we be excited about Isaiah
Simmons if he didn't block that extra point?
Who's we? Who's excited about Isaiah
Simmons? I'm just asking, is he going to
make the roster? How do you extrapolate excited
from that? I mean, would we even be talking
about Isaiah Simmons if he did not block that extra?
I mean, we're talking about freaking Shawn Ryan and Travis

(01:33:25):
Glover and Matt Orszak. So, yeah, I think if you're on
the roster, we talked about you.Whoa, whoa, whoa.
OK, here there's a list of guys,you know, those three names in
the same session. JJ Lippy, Johnny Lumpkin,
Cornelius Johnson. That's where Glover belongs.
And Nesta, Jade Silvera, those are the guys.
That's where we don't talk about.
That's where Glover belongs. That is where Glover belongs.

(01:33:47):
But he we spent a freaking draftpick on him.
So, you know, pardon my French, but Travis Glover, right?
Sorry. Oh yeah.
Joseph Gleeson. Why is Mcduffie so loved and
Bullard not? I'm gonna let Jake take this one
because I think he's gonna have a better rant.
Than I will. Because he's more strongly
opinionated about Bullard than Iam.

(01:34:10):
I have no idea. Because usually everybody sticks
to like the draft picks over like established vets who are on
2nd contracts who aren't like overly flashy.
So I don't know. I don't know why Mcduffie's

(01:34:31):
loved a ton. I don't.
I'm not sure he does The Dirty work.
He tackles hard linebacker that yeah, he tackles hard, which I I
think he also tackle hard and then don't ever.
Well, he's he's he is, he's DeanLowery in that he is reliable or

(01:34:56):
something. You don't have to worry about
whether he's going to do his job.
He's limited athletically, whichI mean could hamper you doing
your job. A little bit.
There is, there is some of that to it too, where and he's also
kind of OK, we got Edrin Cooper now, but he's also kind of one
of the only thumpers we've had on defense in a while.
Just like that's true. That's just not the style of

(01:35:19):
defensive roster that that Guti has built.
There we there it is. Oh, go ahead.
There it is. Duffy's the Frank.
Yes, this one, Zambo 2526 Super Bowl.
That's the one pack. Well, now remember, Frank Zambo,
they blitzed a lot like maybe that's who Prince Capsaicin's

(01:35:40):
bringing up here. Colin Oliver maybe.
So let's end up being the Frank Zambo.
Well, let's, let's hit this for a second.
It, it is kind of, it is kind ofwild that Isaiah Mcduffie's
doing this whole thumper thing at like 228 or whatever.
I do find that very interesting.All right.

(01:36:05):
Like he's just not big. He's not big at all.
He's just isn't. And it somehow works.
I like Prince Kath Sasan's thought here of your Sam, you
know, Isaiah Simmons, Colin on what's that?
Not even a question for me, but yes, no, no, no, it's what

(01:36:27):
you're saying is this is the question.
Well, I I don't I don't think that the question is like who
between those two guys. I'm just saying I like Prince's
thought of Oliver to Sam. But the fact remains the Packers
coaching staff and the front office view Colin Oliver as a

(01:36:48):
defensive end, not as a four three blitzing linebacker,
right, Which is where we think he'd be the most effective.
Yeah. And he's good in coverage like
not to not to throw that out. Well, that's yeah.
I mean, again, he in 3rd downs. Can you call him a defensive

(01:37:10):
end? Sure, if you'd like to.
I'm whatever he want to call himthat for 3rd downs when he's
rushing the passer. Excellent.
Is he going to be the four threedefensive end early down player?
No, everybody will run at the 240 LB guy.
Yeah, if he's playing defensive end, which is why we and Prince

(01:37:31):
Capsaicin like Simmons to Sam have it cause 'cause we we, I
and I think I remember you agreeing with this.
We like what Colin Oliver did incoverage in college that I think
that he can play there well enough that he's not a
liability. You can have him out there, you

(01:37:53):
know, off the line of scrimmage on those early downs and then
blitz him or bring him up or, or, or even SIM pressure.
I I'd be fine with that. Like SIM on 3rd down, like if
you could build up a reputation that he's like this wicked third

(01:38:13):
down pass rusher, like get creative with playing off those
expectations, please. Oh, Joseph says happily
mentioned him doing some on balllinebacker stuff, not just
defensive end. Yeah, and and thank you.
I mean, I'd I knew like happily's the guy.

(01:38:34):
Happily's the guy to to do it. I knew he was a smart guy.
What the heck is our our defensive line coach's name?
That happily fellow Covington? Is that his name?
Sean Covington. No, no.
Sean's Sean's the linebacker. DeMarcus.
DeMarcus is DeMarcus Covington. I mean, DeMarcus Covington is

(01:38:55):
definitely a name I just can't remember.
If that's who the guy. Is it is?
Yeah, OK. DeMarcus Covington from the
Patriots defensive line coach and run game coordinator.
So he was talking about. He was talking about defensive

(01:39:18):
end for what's he know he's new here.
Yeah, valid. It's no, that's that's more of a
joke, but it's more of a joke. But it it is funny.
Half if halfley actually said that half was like whoa, whoa,
whoa, this guy where he's new, he's running his mouth.
No, no, we're going to do a little the defensive end.

(01:39:44):
Yeah. I mean, like immediately after
the draft. Yeah.
And so he's just. Yeah.
And so if if Joseph's report that happily talked about him do
an oddball linebacker, that musthave been today.
Did he say that today? Because I have been.
I have not been on social media.I do not know.
I did not get a chance to catch up on what all the coaching

(01:40:06):
interviews and stuff were. You know, I didn't even hear the
Kenny Clark thing. So.
I'm guessing that's today and that that's really encouraging
if it is. So, you know, at that point I
think you're maybe talking aboutColin Oliver versus Isaiah
Simmons and Isaiah Mcduffie. And it's a tough ask for a

(01:40:26):
rookie to come in and, and take that job away from those two
guys. For sure.
But I mean, I don't, I don't think that Jake Rye would
hesitate for one second to say we'd rather see Colin be given
that opportunity, you know? Yeah, it's true.

(01:40:52):
Like, I, I mean, I kind of wouldwant it to be Colin's job to
lose. Like frankly, like let's let's
play a few games and see if he can't do it.
Yeah. Do we think the Pack had
defensive coordinator post halfway in mind when they signed
DeMarcus Covington? Didn't he do OK in in New
England with what he had? I mean, yeah, for sure.

(01:41:13):
But like, that's also kind of what?
They're thinking with a. Bunch of their position coach
Pirates like they made it the run the run defense coordinator
yeah, maybe so like yes, but maybe how big of a deal is is
that maybe. But.
I'm, I, I, I don't think that he's like the heir apparent.

(01:41:35):
I just think that he is a guy that that Lafleur wants.
Lafleur and Hathaway want to develop.
Yeah. That's true of most of the
coaches they bring in, all right.
It's it's the rare coach they bring in that who that's not
where their head is at. You know, like Bisaccia would be

(01:41:56):
an example of like, that's not why they brought him in.
But you look at all the quality control coaches, you look at
all. Right.
At least 60 to 70% of the position coaches.
That's why they bring him in. Like what's our freaking Ryan
Downard, the quality control guywho we promoted to Co safety's
coach and then made him the defensive backs coach and then

(01:42:17):
kind of demoted him back down toCo safety's coach again, like,
you know, they they think the world of him.
They think that he's going to bea defensive coordinator and a
head coach someday like that. That's that's where they're at
on him. All right, Yeah, So do we do I
think that's what the pack had in mind when they signed him.

(01:42:39):
They had in mind developing him.I, you know, it's, it's probably
a lot the fact that they give him the run defense coordinator
pay bump like he was, you know, a a priority get for them.
For sure. Yeah, definitely.

(01:43:00):
I started this one because I think it's a good conversation.
Craft might be #3 so obviously he's thinking Laporta won.
Oh, oh, the Vikings guy. Former Lions, yeah.
Hawkinson. Yeah, sure, yeah.
I would go craft three behind those two.

(01:43:20):
For a second I thought you were going with the Bears with the
Bears guy. What I can't, I would get.
AI could be on board with it. Loveland, Sure, maybe.
No, shut up. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You're talking about combat. No, no, no, I'm talking about
Cole combat. No, no, I'm not.
I'm not remotely on board with Cole combat as no me either.
I'm talking about Loveland. We talk about the real starting

(01:43:43):
tight end in Chicago. I mean, I I would today.
I would today, June 3rd, 2025, put Colston Loveland ahead of
Cole Combat. I would as of April 24th, 2025,
but Colson Loveland out of Cole Combat 2025 that late?

(01:44:04):
Yeah, I thought you were I thought he was going to be a
Packer. Why would I put him ahead of
Cole Combat? You know, just based on pure
talent alone, just based on the fact that Cole Combat is
overrated and overpaid. I wish I I was at I was at the
ball last weekend and there was a big, big sports store in the

(01:44:26):
mall and I saw Loveland bears jersey and it ticked me off.
Didn't like it, didn't like the way it looked.
I guarantee it. I have sympathy for you.
I really do. I I can sucks.
Loveland is not like a a guy that I like cared about in that
way remotely, but there are certainly things that I feel

(01:44:47):
that way about in life. And I mean, it's pay.
It is. It is a lot of my pain plays
offensive line. Well.
We're defensive line. That's fair, That's fair.
I'm kind of a trenches guy. I hadn't really thought about
that, but I'm I'm a trenches guy, you know, like whenever we

(01:45:08):
whenever we talk like skill position, like it kind of almost
doesn't matter who the player isor what team it's on.
Like if it's not Justin Jefferson, I'm always kind of
Pooh poohing it like that corner's overrated, that
safety's overrated, whatever. But then, you know, you talk
like somebody's third round pickat guard who isn't even playing
for him. And I'm like pissed that the

(01:45:29):
Packers didn't take him two years ago.
Or like defensive tackle. Like the fact that we didn't go
defensive tackle early this yearor offensive line early last
year. Yeah, well, we did.
Like, I can't, I can't. Like last year.
No, we didn't. We went project early.
It wasn't what we wanted. Yeah, there were, I think there
was War project on the board even when they took Morgan so.

(01:45:54):
Wait, what? Guyton Sumatiya Like, there were
some even bigger projects in Morgan's Morgan's draft year
that I was worried the Packers are going to take.
So yeah, well, I'll tell you whoI actually wanted at offensive
line. When they took Jordan Morgan, I

(01:46:17):
wanted Tyler Smith. That's what I really wanted when
they took Morgan. When they took Jordan Morgan,
Tyler Smith was still on the board.
So the Cowboys originally owned a pick.
You mean Guy? You mean Guy?
You mean Guyton? Tyler.

(01:46:39):
Tyler Smith was in like 2022 draft with like Penning and all
that. Tyler Guyton.
Yeah, Guyton was in this past. Yeah, Guyton was in the 2024
one. Yeah, that's who they took, like
one or Yeah, there are a lot of Tylers on.
Yeah, there are a lot of Tylers in Dallas, so it's
understandable. Oh, wait a minute, 'cause they
got booked. Jake, did I ask you this

(01:47:04):
question last week or was this aconversation that I was having?
Yeah, I had AI had this conversation like yesterday.
OK, OK. Name a Jake who has been good at
football in the NFL. It was not a not a kicker, Dang

(01:47:28):
it. Name of Jake.
Dang it. There are none.
I don't think there's a Jake. This came up because we were it
was my mom. My mom and I were talking about
Jake Kumaro. And then also, so we were
watching this Cardinals game andthere were, I was reminded that

(01:47:49):
the Packers had just a litany ofJakes from like 20, I don't
know, 14 to 2020. They're just a bunch of Jakes.
We had, you know, Prince Gap Sason says.
Jake Plummer, Jake Ferguson. Yeah, Plummer's an interesting

(01:48:11):
one, but like, for how many Jakes get drafted and for a
minute, how many Jakes the Packers have had?
Jake Ryan. Did Jake hit?
Yeah, Jake. Jake Ryan.
Yeah, the QB is a rough what's his name?
Browning. Browning.

(01:48:32):
Fromm. Oh, Delone was a QB for a while.
Carolina. Yeah.
Delorman Plummer we got a we gota couple guys heading out here.
Appreciate you. Thanks for know why because of
Florida center Jake Slaughter. Jake Slaughter, he's going to

(01:48:54):
break the he's going to be the the Tucker craft of Jake's
Tucker craft broke the third round curse of the Packers.
Slaughter is going to break the Jake curse.
You could be an excellent NFL commentator and be named Jake,
but you until Slaughter enters the league, you cannot have been

(01:49:16):
a Jake and be good at football. Yeah, it's true.
Coastline asks. Is there any lineman you wanted
over Belton in the second round of the draft?
OK, I'm going to be honest. I'm a little bit of where Jake
was just saying a couple, you know, earlier in the show that
like the this draft class has already exited his brain.

(01:49:39):
I am I'm I am rapidly forgettingeverybody We did not draft and
frankly, I'm having a having a hard ish time remembering, you
know, like Warren Brinson and Mike Robinson, like some of the
guys we took on day three. So offensive lineman, you know,

(01:50:01):
I I didn't, I didn't love the offensive line class overall as
much as I did say last year in the second round.
Maybe ratledge, maybe ratledge, maybe Trapilo.

(01:50:27):
It's unfortunate. They both went to division
rivals. That's about it, though.
I mean, like, OK, there, there were guys available.
So Ursery had just gone a few picks before we went.
I wasn't, I wasn't really in on Trepilo.

(01:50:47):
I don't know there was. Well, you knew they weren't
going to Ratledge because it's aguard.
I wasn't big on Dylan Fairchild.No.
Wyatt Milam, Emery Jones. Emery Jones.

(01:51:08):
The third was was I liked Jerry Wilson a bit.
I didn't like it. I didn't like him.
Like second round, Like him. Yeah, that's the tricky part of
this. Caleb Rogers I didn't hate.
I mean, yeah, could we have done.
Could we have done Golden Amos and Caleb Rogers?
Sure. But like, I don't know, in the

(01:51:32):
second oh line, not really like a it's not really like a guy.
Oh, I really wanted this guy over Belton.
As I said, I think Trapilo and ratledge were like guys maybe in
that conversation, but like not really.
Anyway, I was like, oh, I'd I'd much rather have this guy than

(01:51:54):
Belton. Like it wasn't like anything
like that. There's a handful of names that
I, you know, you could have taken in the second round and I
would not have been mad about it.
But also I would not have said prior to them getting drafted,
like, Oh yeah, second round is good value for him.
Like if we had taken, I don't know, Jackson Slater or Marcus

(01:52:15):
Bow in the second round. Like, I wouldn't have been mad.
I wouldn't have done it myself, but I also wouldn't have been
mad. There have certainly been picks
that we have made. Mari Rogers, who I was mad when
we took them because it just felt like crap value to me.
Yeah, 2024. Who do we take?

(01:52:41):
Oh, Tyron Hopper we took in the third round instantly made me
mad of just like it was clearly not worth the where he was
taken. Yeah, maybe Miles Frazier.
I think he went. He went to the Lions.
Yeah. Again, like these these are
guys, like, I wouldn't have taken them in the second round,
but I also would not have been. Yeah, outraged of like, how

(01:53:03):
could you possibly see them as asecond round?
This is reach. Yeah.
Would something like Donovan Jackson, Kyle Williams maybe
have been more interesting to methan Golden Belton?
Maybe. Well, and and, you know, you're
looking at like the end of the first rally.
This is different. You know, this is a Matthew
Golden. Yeah.
I've like, I would love Josh Connerly, Donovan Jackson, Josh

(01:53:27):
Simmons. Yes.
Of course, Josh Simmons would have been nice.
Second round was a tricky spot. The offensive line at corner
there was like one guy at each, I think left that a lot, at
least a lot of people thought. And they were Belton and and
like the the the guys that we missed out on by taking Belton

(01:53:50):
were Trey Harris, Trey Amos, like those Those are the 2
Alexander. Yeah, perhaps.
Let me ask you a crazy question.OK, Who would you rather have
just 5050 this OK, Darius Alexander or Ty Robinson.

(01:54:17):
I'm guessing it's not close for you.
For me, it's close and my my answer would be Ty.
I think I'd I think I'd rather have Alexander, but like it's I
think it's I think it's for one,there's a major reason I want to
make sure it's right though. Azariah Thomas, the arm length,

(01:54:41):
the arm length for Alexander's like off the charts for D
lineman. OK.
And to me with both their disruptive ability, to me that
would scream maybe just the potential to have a bit more
control in a lot of those contact scenarios of the point
of attack. Like that would probably just
give me the edge. Otherwise, like, yeah, I like
both in terms of their disruption skill set.

(01:55:06):
So Jordan Birch over Anthony Dalton would have been fine with
me. Savion is is where you
immediately just start making some big and obvious comparisons
because like after the third round, there definitely was a
bit of a dip and you know, it, it it was, it was just such a

(01:55:26):
surprising player, a surprising position, surprising player.
So, you know, you immediately look at Robinson W at Robinson
and West at D tackle are like the first ones that Ty Robinson
100% would have been my pick at at the Sabian Williams pick and

(01:55:50):
it like not even remotely close.I I I would have sprinted to
turn that in scataboo. Yeah, I guess.
Jerry Wilson, Xavier Watts, definitely, yeah.
Wouldn't have minded DK, I guessthere, but yeah.

(01:56:14):
Wait, who? Who?
Rogers? DDK, you said?
Yeah. Ever see you were Rogers?
Were you talking about Caleb Rogers?
Caleb Rogers? Yeah.
Caleb Rogers. I would have been happy with it
at at that big. I mean, like, it's not even
close, Ty Robinson. Not even close.
I know. And we weren't even really close

(01:56:35):
to our next pick in the fourth round by the time he went at
1:11. Yeah, yeah.
It started hurting watching those those D tackles start to
go this Green Bay just kind of sat there and was like, I mean,
it's just like just Goody has has never valued defensive

(01:57:01):
tackle. I mean, he did take Devante
Wyatt and Carl Brooks and Colby Wooden, but he he does not value
the position. Never has.
It's always been neglected. And you know, you you look at
there, there was a period of time where he had taken TJ
Slayton, Devante Wyatt, Carl Brooks and Colby Wooden kind of

(01:57:25):
all in relatively quick succession.
And you felt like, oh, man, now it's finally a priority.
And then Slayton and Wooden, I would argue like certainly
didn't pan out. And you're in a spot where like,
hey, you know, what do you want to do with Carl Brooks?
Where do you want to play him? Like the the tweener thing has

(01:57:46):
always been a concern. And with Kenny really getting to
the Kenny Itis that he has, you know, you're in a spot where
it's just so freaking deep or thin at defensive tackle.
And, you know, I'm, I'm just kind of just taken right back to
where we were with the tail end of the 2020 season.

(01:58:08):
You know, we can't stop the run to save our lives.
And it's just Kenny and Dean Lowry and then frickin Jaron
Reed. And just like, it's there's no
nothing going on there. We can't do better than Dean
Lowry. Yeah, it's, I don't, I don't
know why defensive line has justbeen so neglected by by Goody.

(01:58:33):
It's just not something he values compared to like, I I
feel like he tries harder to patch linebacker than he does.
Like, that's the interior defensive line.
Yeah. Oh, that's Chris, says defensive
tackle. The two corners where he feels

(01:58:54):
over where it seems at least from the outside, it sees the
overconfidence is massive. So well, and, and, and again,
the whole thing makes more senseif you like the players that we
have as much as Guti and Lafleurand everybody in the building

(01:59:17):
seems to all right, like they think Kenny Clark is the second
coming. They thought Dean Lowry and
Jaron Reed were amazeballs. And who was the other guy that
we had in 2020? Because Jaron Reed wasn't there
yet. It was some, it was a different
guy, Kenny and Dean, and a guy who was gone like after the 2020

(01:59:40):
season. Really unathletic guy.
I'm looking. I don't know.
Oh, sick. You're thinking of Kingsley
Kiki. I hope not.
I wasn't thinking of Kingsley Kiki.

(02:00:05):
Packers 2020. Did Damon rosters sit on that
team? Sax Harrison?
Yeah, No, that was that was. So didn't they bring him?
He was on the 2020 team, but like for the very last game of
the regular of the regular season, they signed him crazy

(02:00:26):
late in the year. Kenny and Dean, man.
Kings of Kiki listed as a starter at right defensive end.
That is interesting. Opposite team.
Lowery. That's crazy.
Maybe I am thinking of King. That's crazy.

(02:00:48):
Yeah. I'm looking at who else other
than like, Montravius still being on the team.
Obviously Montravius. That's who it was freaking
Montravius. That's what I was thinking of.
And like, he got a he got a lot.He got a decent amount of
playing time. He's being relied on late in the
year. It was just so freaking
frustrating. Yeah.

(02:01:14):
Coach Lynn liked Cam Jackson from Florida in the fifth.
Yeah, we were. We were.
We liked tackles. Yeah.
It's just surprising, Chris asksSavion Future X.
We're not going to have a conversation about that.
We've done it a bunch. The Cliff Notes are Eileen yes,
and Jake is a much more leaning no.

(02:01:35):
Yeah. Yeah, Snacks.
Montrealvius Adams. Yeah, Monty Adams was still in
the league last year. Yeah, I think he's going to play
this year. He's not like a horrific player.
It's just like he was way further up the depth chart for
the Packers than he should have been in the year when they were

(02:01:56):
trying to win the Super Bowl andthe San Francisco 49ers were
doing what they were doing in the league.
Yep. And do you remember was was
Zedarius and Preston and Kenny just getting their pants beat
off of them all game long by SanFrancisco's offensive line?

(02:02:19):
I mean, just like just taken outbehind the woodshed.
I just paddled until they were red.
Yeah, it's true. Where where do you have the
Packers receiver receiver room ranked in the north?
I didn't want you to ask me thisquestion.
I really didn't. All right, so look, I'm number

(02:02:43):
one is Minnesota because of Justin Jefferson.
I don't really love or respect the rest of the room at all, but
Justin Jefferson alone, I mean, he's the best wide receiver in
football, you know, No disrespect to your guy Malik

(02:03:04):
Neighbors, no disrespect to future number one overall pick
Jeremiah Smith, but Justin Jefferson currently is the best
wide receiver. Yes, yes, OK.
I don't give a crap about Chicago's wide receiver room.
I really don't like it's, it's fine.
It's for the first time, you know, like since they assembled

(02:03:27):
this group, it's for the first time since like 2019.
Their wide receiver room is not a complete embarrassment.
It's fine. It is satisfactory as if I were
a Bears fan, I would not be frustrated or annoyed by the
collection of a talent that they've assembled at wide
receiver. Does it keep me up at night as a

(02:03:51):
Packer fan or a Packer coach at all?
Not in the slightest. Like, it's fine.
Like you're you're going to go up against that caliber of wide
receiver room every couple weeksin the NFL.
The Lions. What's that?
Unless you're playing Tennessee.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the Lions, I think is where you and I are maybe going to get

(02:04:13):
a little bit heated because I know you love Jamo.
I have well, no, like, but like like that.
This is where we're going to disagree, though.
So like I'm in raw. I acknowledge it was fantastic.
I have all the respect in the world for him.
He's the second best wide receiver in the division behind
Justin Jefferson. And it's not remotely debatable.

(02:04:34):
I think I was mad that we passedon.
I'm in raw to take Amari raw. I'm never going to be OK with
that. And like the Lions wide receiver
room on the whole is I think what the Packers want their wide
receiver room to be. You know, you got a a collection

(02:04:54):
of players with different skill sets who are all doing their job
and you know, it is really freaking efficient.
And you got your freakazoid in JMO slash Christian Watson.
I I, I I just I'm not, I don't have the same level of respect

(02:05:17):
for Jamo, but you do. But you know, but again, to
circle back to what I was sayingearlier, like I tend to poo poo
skill players more than I shouldanyways, all right, I put Justin
Jefferson and Amanra on a pedestal and I Pooh, Pooh jamo.
All right, That's probably a flaw in music.
I don't think so. I think it's fine.

(02:05:38):
So, you know, where where do I put the Packers?
I would as of today, based on the last time we saw them, it
would be disingenuous for me to rank them any higher than fourth
because they played like crap the last time we saw them.
Well, I and they don't have watched both secure, you know,

(02:06:00):
receiver last year when targeted.
So yeah, I firmly believe in their potential.
All right, So like, listen, a year ago I thought the Packers
could win 13 games 'cause we were coming off that 2023 season
where they were kind of all going crazy, especially Wix.

(02:06:20):
And Wix was maybe the number onereason why I just kind of
believed that this group had what it took.
That like, my big concern was the defense and I thought the
offense was going to be fine. Yeah, 2024, OK, you got the
injury to love. The offensive line plays like
garbage and all of my ire was focused on the wide receivers

(02:06:41):
who just couldn't execute the basics and the just supremely
talented players who couldn't catch the freaking football.
This is the biggest problem was just the drops.
Like clean up the drops and the offense is fine and it was
affecting everybody. And so I can't, I can't in full
conscience give the Packers widereceiver room the benefit of the

(02:07:07):
doubt because the last time we saw them, they refused to
execute the basics. And so I, I just, I need to see
it from them. I know they can do it, but I
need to see them actually doing it.
And I think they will. We've talked about this a lot,
that we think year 3 for Wix andReed is, is going to be it, that

(02:07:29):
they're going to pop. You still have Dobbs and you
know, he is really rounded into just a really nice reliable
piece in the offense. We like what we think Matthew
Golden can contribute, but like Reed and Wicks are probably
going to be the offense in the in the receiver like that.

(02:07:51):
That's those are probably the guys who need to carry things.
Otherwise, Houston, we have a. Problem.
And that's why I can't, you know?
With. Intellectual honesty ranked them
higher than fourth in the division because of the doubts
that I have about their willingness and focus to execute

(02:08:16):
at the level that they can't. They are a more talented room,
in my opinion, than what Chicagohas.
And I think they can outperform what the Lions have in
particular because I think they have a much better quarterback
throwing to them than Jared Goff.
So I like the love to this crop of wide receivers on paper,

(02:08:41):
better than I like Jared Goff toSaint Brown and Jamo.
And who's their third? Is it?
Is it is it still Tim? I can't remember even remember
who the heck their their wife's Avery is.
It's probably Tesla now. Well, you know, and I didn't
really want Tesla, so, you know,he's whatever like, like Tesla

(02:09:03):
is Jamo, all right in in my book.
So. So yeah, that that's my answer.
What's your answer? Yeah, probably 4th, though I
don't think they're that far off.
Again, I think Savion like I think I think the the wildest

(02:09:26):
dream optimists I think should be thinking Savion can become J
MO. To me.
I think that's where you should sit because I think, I think,
you know, that's that's what I think we're more not Golden.
You don't think Golden J MO? No, no Golden.
Golden runs a more full route tree than J MO Jamo's your field

(02:09:49):
stretching Z, but obviously likeyou can give him a little bit
more because he's got the gear down ability that that I think
we all see with savion as well. So no, I think golden I I've
kind of thrown out my my comps on golden of like a little bit
of Deonte, a little bit of shades of Brandon Cooks, but

(02:10:11):
like yeah, yeah, I don't I don'tthink he's quite Jamo.
Didn't we talk some Robert Woodsfor I I didn't, but I don't
think I mentioned him. Coach Lynn says if you had to
bet which wide receiver gets traded.
So Dobbs like like Dobbs is the obvious answer.

(02:10:32):
But I I don't think the Packers can afford to trade any of these
guys because they don't know who's going to be reliable if
golden pops off the first month.Dobbs, That's, I mean that it
probably is that simple. But if not like the, I mean, the
obvious answer being Dobbs is because of the fact that he's on
an expiring contract, right. And he's not hurt like like

(02:10:57):
Watson is. So yeah, So yeah, he's kind of
the only, you're just not trading the cost control that
Wix and Reed have right now. You're just not doing that.
So it's like, well, I think, I think you and I would both agree
that Wix and Reed have it's likesignificantly higher ceilings
than Dobbs as well. Yes, of course, Dobbs probably

(02:11:18):
has a higher floor than Wix, probably not a higher floor than
Reed. I don't.
Yeah, I don't think so. Perimeter wise.
I mean, Reed went in the 2nd andDobbs went in the 4th for a
reason. And I think that I think that
like athletically, yeah, it's consistently shown up between

(02:11:39):
those two. Like Dobbs.
Yeah, Dobbs. Dobbs has great hands.
I think I, I would say that's his his probably his best
attribute hands in tight window contested spots as much as any
Packers wide receiver has hands.He when he's when he's got when

(02:12:02):
he's got a lot of space around him suddenly like, I don't know
what happens. That's why he had like 7 drops
last year. I don't know what it is.
He just reminds me of James Jones.
He's like, you want me to make that tough one go into my go
into the ground Seattle game like I got you man.
Over the middle. Nobody's around me.
I, I don't know, Jim, like that's he, he just revised me so

(02:12:26):
much of Jones for that reason, right?
Like, and that's fresh in the mind.
That's what year 3 was kind of for him.
So I, I think it's kind of whereI stand.
I have a significant amount of interest in getting a new wide
receivers coach, frankly, but I think that this group of wide

(02:12:47):
receivers would be really fun tocall plays for over Sure.
Coach Lynn asked, what could we get for Wix, Do you think?
I'm going to say I don't think you get, you could get anything
for him and I certainly would not be willing to deal him for
what you could get for. I don't know, I think Pittsburgh
might be a little desperate. I, I just, they're sniffing

(02:13:12):
around for me. There's no incentive for the
Packers to move off. No, there isn't.
But cause because here's the thing, Wix is either going to be
Devante Adams or he's going to be useless.
If he's useless, you can't get any Parker.
There you go. Yeah, he's either Devante Adams
or Devante Parker. Although Parker got traded,

(02:13:33):
didn't he? Didn't he get traded from Miami
to New England? I think he did.
That's hilarious. I think I if I recall correctly,
it was a sixth round pick that they got.
That's probably right. Watch it.
I'm going to end up being completely wrong on it, but if

(02:13:53):
he's Devante Parker, you can't get anything for him.
And if he's Devante Adams, there's no price that I would be
willing to trade him for. Like if if if if Wix is what I
think is Devante Adams though that price tag is going to be
massive in 2027. Worth it.
I don't care if Wix reaches the potential that I believe he's

(02:14:17):
capable of. You could not get me to trade
him for a first round pick. Like, OK Devante Adams at
witch's age. Would you?
The first round pick? No.
Like the first round pick soundsnice until you realize the hit
rate of first round picks. Yeah.

(02:14:37):
Like, you want Gudi picking in the first round more?
I don't know about that, Chief. I'm not sure.
I'm not sure about that. I don't think I'd want him to
be. Drafting more the first.
Like like Wix, Wix is just such a he's such a Lotto ticket, you
know, like it's already a crapshoot.
Don't we don't have do I think that he's a guaranteed elite

(02:14:57):
player, you know, and like, you know, should bears fans be
mocking me if he ends up not panning out?
No, I've I have so many times acknowledged his floor is in the
basement. His floor is he's useless,
right, But his ceiling is he's Devante Adams.
He's he's, he is such a smooth route runner.
His release is incredible. And it's the mental errors.

(02:15:22):
And if he can't get over the mental errors, the concentration
drops. Just the the dumb decisions,
the, you know, running backwardsand just the like.
I'm sorry, but the idiocy, all right, you see idiocy out of him
sometimes and it's frustrating because you also see the
brilliance. And so you know, if he's like a,
a light bulb that is like flickering on and off, like

(02:15:43):
eventually that light bulb is either going to be on more than
it's off or off more than it's on.
And you know, if, if the light bulb starts flickering off more
than it's on, then like, you know, what are we doing here?
You know you're not going to getanything for him anyways.
Yeah. So, but I, but I think year
three, I think he's going to break out.

(02:16:04):
You know, the, the, we make the Devante Adams comparisons to him
all the time. And you look at his sophomore
campaign compared to Devante's like it's eerily similar.
And I would argue that Wix maybehas a little bit more going for
him than Devante did at that point in his career.

(02:16:25):
I just I you know, there's no reason that Wix can't break out
in year 3 and be wide receiver one not only for the Packers,
but you know, like for the for the NFC.
No reason at all. He has the talent like he gets
the separation. He's always freaking open.

(02:16:48):
Yeah. So if he can become a reliable
target that like, hey, you know,thanks for getting open, but it
was a mistake for me to throw the ball to you like that.
That's like that's how you couldsummarize his 2024 season wide
open. But I still I still shouldn't
throw it to you. Yeah, that's not that's not

(02:17:09):
great. It's not great.
It'll be great. You got a new comic hang out of
the ball tire. Welcome to the channel.
If Wix had Romeo's hands and catch toughness, yeah, you know,
Dobbs catch toughness is is a a special trait plus reliability

(02:17:33):
with love. Well, and and I would even just
say just the reliability of love.
I don't need him to have any kind of superhuman ability to
catch the ball. Like basically just don't be MVS
when it comes to catching passes.
That would be nice. Like just just make the same

(02:17:54):
leap in year 3 that Christian Watson did.
Like Christian Watson was such areliable hands catcher in Year
3. That's all we need, man.
Yeah, it's true. OK.
I think as we're stacking up, you know, the rest of the

(02:18:15):
position groups, I think there'sonly two we really haven't
talked about at all at all. QBQB and running back would be
the two that we haven't touched on one bit.
Yeah. So where does Love stack up?
Is that really a question? And and where do the running

(02:18:35):
backs stack up? OK, think it's a second.
Make me make me a case for why Love is not number one in the
division. He's more high variance.
I think in the play would be theonly argument.
I don't even think that's an accurate statement.

(02:18:56):
It it definitely is, but it because of the turnover they
place and the interceptions, thethe high variance play.
It's it's there there. There's just no question now.
So you're you're straight ups going head to head with Jared
Goff here. Well, I think that's the only
one you're going head to head against at this point, right?

(02:19:19):
No matter how high the the the ceiling is for Caleb, no matter
how high the ceiling may be for JJ in Minnesota, Like the only
thing that's keeping him back from being consensus #1 is that
high variance play, which maybe you can attribute.

(02:19:39):
To the injury. Perhaps I mean, I I think I
almost entirely attribute it to the injury.
And I'm with your with Judah time here.
The case for love not being number one is wide receiver
play. Like the the wide receivers were
so crap last year and so unreliable.

(02:20:00):
And you've got love out there behind this offensive line that
is playing like garbage, cannot consistently pass protect to
save their lives. Hey, we can run block, but we
can't protect our injured quarterback who really shouldn't
be out here. He's hobbling around on one leg
like. I mean, like if you watch his
legs and you watch his hips, he's he's throwing all arm for

(02:20:24):
half for the more than half the he's just throwing all arm.
And then like, by the time he started to get remotely healthy
at all, this is when the wide receivers forgot that they knew
how to play football. And the only guys you had on the
roster who could catch a football were Tucker Kraft,
Christian Watson. And then when Romeo Dobbs felt

(02:20:45):
like being out there on the field, you know, he was nice to
have Round 2. So like that, that's where I'm
at. I, I, I, I have no lack of faith
in love at all. I am I am as big a believer in
Jordan Love today as I have everbeen at any point, you know.

(02:21:08):
And so if you know, if you want to trade that for Jared Goff's
veteran presence, OK. I mean, I think that Jared Goff
has wild variability outside of the little tiny window where he
had Matt Lafleur as his quarterback's coach or the
window where he had Ben Johnson drawn up offensive plays for

(02:21:33):
him. Like outside of that, I mean,
he's, he's been all over the place for his career.
And so I, I, I just think it's a, a leap of faith to say, hey,
Ben Johnson's gone. And yet, you know, the lasting
impact is going to remain with Jared Goff, who's always been
like the definition of average. I mean, like, OK, let's let's

(02:21:56):
just lean on PFF. All right.
Like outside of the the Ben Johnson era, Jared Goff's like
career PFF grade is like exactlya 60.0, which is like the
default. Like if they don't, if they
don't grade any of your snaps and they just say, yeah, you did
what you were supposed to. Like you come out to a 60

(02:22:17):
football. Yeah, you played.
Yeah. His his career average is 60.0.
And so then, you know, and even during the Ben Johnson era, So
what last year, you know, Jared Goff was out of his mind and
just, you know, playing crazy football and it was awesome.
The year before. He's all over the place.
And you look at Jared Goff's production home versus away or

(02:22:41):
like in a Dome versus under the sky, it was wack.
It was all over the place. So I that that's why I can't get
there with the idea of like Jared Goff being, you know,
lower variants than Jordan Love 'cause it to me, it's just such

(02:23:02):
a small sample size in like an optimal environment.
Like, OK, Detroit last year, they had injuries out the wazoo
on defense, but like offense, itwas perfect.
It I mean, like you set that thermostat at 68 1/2° and it is
just cozy as can be. And hey, hey, Jared Goff, take

(02:23:25):
this. You know what this is?
It's a nice warm cup of apple cider with just a hint of lemon,
a little bit of cinnamon. Like we got to exactly.
Look, the offensive line. They're going to want to go sip
that cider. All right?
You sip it, get that, get your Zen and then throw the football.
All right, So, yeah, there you go with my dunk on Jared Goff.

(02:23:48):
I like it. Happy for him and all the money
that he got from Detroit. Happy for.
Him, yeah. Koshland says if you pressure
Goff, he's clearly not the same QB.
Frank Ragnow is gone. They're going to have to shuffle
the offensive line a little bit.No question.
They still have the most talented offensive line in the

(02:24:10):
division. In my opinion.
It's still up there in the NFL even without Ragnow.
But they're going to have to do some shuffling spots that are
young, young. They haven't a first time
offensive coordinator. I don't know off the top of my
head. Do they have a new offensive
line coach? You don't have to look it up.
Just do you know off the top of your head if they have, I don't

(02:24:30):
know. I'm not sure.
I don't know. I don't know who Ben Johnson
brought with him. Coach Lynn says Love is a beast
for how he played last season. The offense not do him any
favors. Judah Times says he needs to
tighten up his footwork. I mean, he had no footwork last
year because he had one leg. So I agree with you.
And also there's an explanation for it.

(02:24:52):
I mean, he's he's always been like he's he's a hopper.
Yeah. He hops.
It's like asking Aaron Rodgers hops.
He throws off Patrick Holmes. Listen, this is how he's going
to play. And we're just going to have,
we're going to have to live withthat.
At this point. You're not fixing it.
Clements did as much as he couldhave done to give him to make

(02:25:13):
him, I think a more precise rhythmic thrower than he was
coming out of college. I think Clemens did a great job
with that. I just you're not what I and I
and maybe the best thing Clemensdidn't do was he didn't try to
coach everything out of him thatmade him this, you know, high

(02:25:34):
ceiling prospect, right? It's like he he he reigned some
things in to say, Hey, this is what we need to do to play with
him. Rhythm in structure, right, with
good footwork and mechanics, butalso like don't don't eradicate
what makes you you from your game.
It's like that's I think, like again, just as always, the

(02:25:58):
highest of which is what he did with Aaron Rodgers too young
Aaron Rodgers to Clemens, because he's just he's him.
Put him in the Ring of Honor. Let's let's hope that Sean
Mannion received via osmosis. Yeah, that would be great.
That would be something. Yeah.
And just anything would be super.

(02:26:19):
I think it comes down to blame. Like, you know, the offense was
awful last year. Where do you place the blame?
I think every Packer fan watching the the team last year
watching the offense had every right to be frustrated and upset
with what they saw out of the offense.
And where do you place the blame?

(02:26:40):
The majority of Packer fans place that blame on Jordan Love.
I'm not saying that's unfair. I'm just also saying that's not
what I did. I was pissed at Matt Lafleur all
year for not letting Chris cook,by the way.
Not letting that. That's part of it.
Yeah. No, that's not letting you cook,
man. You know, that's huge.
Yeah. Playing Jordan Love in games

(02:27:03):
where he was physically not ready to play, putting it and.
And then, and we didn't need himback against the AFC S Matt.
We didn't need him back against the Minnesota Vikings.
I think that was the singular game that I was the most annoyed
about was going into that first game against the Vikings.
What they were doing with Malik Willis was specifically

(02:27:32):
something that the Vikings were struggling to defend.
I think this would have been harder for the Vikings to try
and defend that type of offense than, hey, you know what the
Packers have going out there this week?
A hobbled, gimpy quarterback whohasn't played or practiced in a
month, and they have a SUS offensive line and a bunch of

(02:27:57):
young receivers. Yeah, yes, please.
Like Brian Flores, I'm guaranteed at one point in that
week leading up to that game waslaughing.
Say what? To bring him back from injury
now, yeah, right. Interesting.
OK, cool. Yeah, no, I I was, I was ticked

(02:28:19):
at the wide receivers. I was ticked at Matt Lafleur,
Jaden Reed at at least one pointin the season.
The rants were high. Yeah, the rants needed to be
benched. Needed to be benched for his own
good. Yeah, yeah.
So it's it comes down to where you place the blame.

(02:28:41):
There's a lot of blame to go around.
For sure. Where did you coach?
Lenz says Love have to scramble more to keep teams honest and he
couldn't, obviously. And and so, you know, it's part
of it. He's always been a good he's
always been, always been very good pressure sack ratio, always

(02:29:02):
been good at that. I, I would say that the, the
only QB conversation to me or question to me would be at QB 2.
Do you like the Vikings backup options better than Malik
Willis? And I think that's pretty fair
because, you know, I mean, well,I mean, like, I guess I think

(02:29:27):
we're expecting JJ McCarthy to win the starting job for the
Vikings, right? Like, it's him or Sam Howell.
And so it's you, Dorothy or Rogers.
Yeah. I think if Sam Howell wins that
job, they're. They're in, they're in.
Like, oh. Crap.
Guess we better go get them. We got like we got like 4-5

(02:29:53):
minutes until we got to hop off of here.
So let's hit running back to me.This conversation kind of gets
interesting with Marshawn Lloyd and like, what do we think we're
going to get out of him in in year 2?
So, you know, Jordan a blank. Was there a was there another

(02:30:17):
running back who was here last year?
Chris Brooks Is Chris Brooks here?
Yeah. And he's still on the roster.
So, you know, like you, you got and, and a lot of people are
excited about Omar Johnson. You got. 4-5 running backs to
are interesting to talk about who who will be in any kind of
contention. I think I would like to see

(02:30:38):
Emmanuel Wilson lock up that RB3or RB2 job.
But Jake, you know what, what are your expectations for
Marshawn Lloyd this year? I mean, I it's, it's kind of
interesting to consider that. It's almost like we had an extra
draft pick this year that we arethrowing in there.

(02:31:00):
You know, I have two expectations for Marshall and
Lloyd. Just two for the season.
Stay healthy, don't fumble. That's it.
Yeah, he did fumble a lot of US concerns in college, fumbling
concerns in the league, missed the season.

(02:31:20):
That's it. Stay healthy, don't fumble and
we're in great shape for year 2.Do you have any concerns about
his injury, you know, setting him back like not not from an
availability standpoint, but from a athletic ability
standpoint. I don't know, maybe, but like, I

(02:31:47):
don't know. I what what was it exactly?
Not that not that I'm trying to make this longer and longer and
longer so he but I don't remember looks like hip and

(02:32:09):
hamstring. He hurt his ankle.
He hurt his ankle, but he also in the summer was having OK.
So the he injured his ankle 6 carries in, but he'd already
been limited with hip and hamstring injuries.
So that's three separate. And he had an appendix which,

(02:32:33):
you know, don't expect that to have any.
Lloyd had another injury. Well, first said Lloyd had
another injury pop up this off season.
Said that today. Yeah, man, here's something.
Lloyd went to a Badgers medical facility.

(02:32:54):
He did go to the same place Watson was recently to test
imbalances in his body while moving, which I almost wonder
that that's kind of what makes me think of is Christian Watson
finding out that one of his hamstrings was bigger than the
other or something. Yeah.
So Coach Land asked, was he hurtthis much at USC or South

(02:33:16):
Carolina? So no, you know, but this like
this is always the concern aboutdrafting an older running back
is like, hey, you know, do you have concerns about wear and
tear? And like, where we had landed on
was like not right away. Like that's more of like a few
years down the road type of thing.
Like you should still get a fully productive rookie contract

(02:33:37):
out of that number. That was the thing like rookie
contract, because he didn't havea lot of carries in college,
right? He had under 300, which again,
if you look at you look at our guy who went to number six to

(02:34:00):
the Raiders, Gente at 313 last year.
Oh, wait, that was just a regular hold on.
Gente had 375 last year and Lloyd had like, you know, under
300. So, you know, he didn't have a
lot of of of treading the tires with the fact that injuries are

(02:34:21):
catching up this early now. Do I think like the hip is
probably the biggest concern of like sapping the explosiveness
and the burst and like kind of the, the ability to shift from
horizontal to vertical and and kind of accelerated fashion?
Like I think he if that's still there, he's in a great spot

(02:34:44):
because there were a lot of great gap runs at USC where you
can see him just like understanding where to be and
then then explode. And the fact that Green Bay is
shifting to more of that alreadydid so with Jacobs is like, I
think a, a really positive sign as well.
So again, stay healthy, don't fumble.
And I, I think Green Bay is justwidens their margin as you know

(02:35:07):
#2 in terms of the running back position in this division.
Like, I still think they're too,even if with, with those
questions, because again, Aaron Jones kind of winding down
Jordan Mason, that's that's all fun and what not.
But I, I think, yeah, Jordan Mason is very underrated.
Yeah, he is. He is.
And it wouldn't shock me if he takes the starting gig from

(02:35:28):
Aaron Jones, who might just, youknow, have some injury lingering
in camp and right, oh, a soft tissue injury.
Here we go. And Jordan Mason just kind of
takes it from him as as Jones iskind of winding down in the
career. So I mean, it's obviously
Detroit first, right? There's no escaping that.
But like after that, I think it's still pretty comfortably

(02:35:51):
Green Bay too. And then Chicago's still trying
to play Swift, which I find funny.
And that puts him a. 4 by a lot.That will take it from somebody,
you know. Yeah, maybe Manon Guy will grab
the starting role or Roshan Johnson will finally break out.
We'll see. But until then, they are, by all

(02:36:11):
accounts to me, they pass the offense in Chicago.
So you've done. Would you?
Would you take? Would you take Swift for free?
No, no. Absolutely not.
And he's the. And he's the absolutely not for

(02:36:31):
free. No, he has to pay me.
He has to pay you. OK.
No, Swift. No, no, I I got one for real.
It's Andre Swift for Trent Richardson, right?
No, no, no. DeAndre Swift or Matt Orzik.
You got to have one of them on your roster, Orzik, because we

(02:36:53):
could just not do special teams.We could just not punt.
We just not kick like we just, we just not do that.
Like we have to run the ball at some point.
And I refuse to have Swift ever be dear that no thank you, no
thank you, no questions. At this time, no questions.

(02:37:13):
Yeah, Swift is about as bad as they come.
My Internet is starting to starting to conk out and it's
time for me to hop off anyways. So yeah, you guys have any, any
parting thoughts that you want to get out there, Jake, you want
to do a, a record prediction, anything like that?
No, no, we've got plenty of timefor that.

(02:37:34):
We have plenty of time for that.I just excited to see the the
buzz and the juice coming up from the from Green Bay with
with OTAs. That's always fun.
Don't overreact, but just enjoy the fact that they're getting
out there and get ready for hope.
What hopefully is of course, as we always hope the special
season. So and a tool for this is no

(02:37:55):
longer the chat. But I, I, I think it only fair
that we agree to start next week's live stream with his
question. Have you guys seen the trailer
for Naked Gun? So I think that's what.
We're going to have, but we'll have to.
We'll have to pick that up. Which?
Will be in two weeks, unfortunately for me.
Yeah. So we we have a we have a a

(02:38:17):
replacement Co host lined up forJake for next week.
So Chris Jackman, who has been on here before, has agreed to
come on here again. Hopefully, hopefully the
scheduling still works out and he can he can come on, but
that'll be that'll be fun. So TuneIn next week, but if you
like hearing from me and you want to hear some smart stuff

(02:38:39):
from Chris Jackman. And then two weeks from now,
Jake and I are going to have to bring back movie talk, which
Coach Lynn, I guess we'll get tothat one too.
Right there. As as we close out, we'll have
to. Yeah.
Do we see sinners? Yeah.
So I'll have to. I will have to throw that on the
list. I've not seen it.
So. But I got I got two weeks before

(02:39:00):
our next movie talk. So I can I can probably make
that happen. Still in theaters.
It is in my town but that's I I would assume it's in.
I would assume I just wasn't sure.
I don't remember when it like released but my town is still
playing Minecraft so there. You go.
Actually, I did go and see Minecraft with my daughter and

(02:39:21):
that was a good time. It was.
Oh, that's good. Did you, did you see Minecraft?
No, but I've seen some of the theater reactions and insanity.
Yeah. So, so like throw, throw that
out the window. Hopefully he would hope so for
most here. Here's the comparison.
I, I compared it to 2 movies, Monty Python and the Quest for

(02:39:44):
the Holy Grail and Napoleon Dynamite that it's like, it's
like that level. Like people have asked me like,
hey, what star rating? What star rating would you give
to Minecraft? And I'm like, I wouldn't it, you
can't give it a star rating because it's not that kind of
movie. Like you wouldn't give Napoleon
Dynamite. A star rating, you would just
give it a thumbs up and you'll go back and re watch it

(02:40:06):
sometimes. Interesting.
I enjoy both of those that you have thrown out there.
So that and that is interesting.Like it has a story and it
definitely it it it doesn't likeabandoned the story, like it
pursues the story the whole way through.
But like it's it's more of just like a cult classic experience.

(02:40:30):
Yeah, and like trying to give ita star rating or any kind of
review like those can be waste of your time to nothing wrong
with cult classics if it becomesone.
That would be incredible. You know, my favorite like cult
classic of all time is it's really stupid.
Aside from Napoleon Dynamite andMonty Pipe is the The Green

(02:40:55):
Hornet. Oh my gosh, Seth Rogen.
All right, my favorite scene in the whole, my favorite scene in
the whole frickin movie is when he's in the he's in the back of
his limo and they're driving down well, in the back of the
horn. It's been a while and and
they're driving downtown to go find some crime to fight for the

(02:41:18):
first time. So yeah, if you haven't seen the
movie, Seth Rogen is kind of playing like a a spoof on
Batman, I guess that he's like abillionaire Playboy who, you
know, decides to fight crime. So he has his his driver drive
him downtown to go find some crime to fight.

(02:41:38):
And he looks out the window and he sees.
A pair of tennis shoes over the the telephone line and he goes,
I think we're in the hood, Cato.Oh God.
Oh. Man, that that that movie, you

(02:41:59):
haven't seen it. It's another it's it's a perfect
of like what would you rate it? I don't know.
That's just you got to go. You just give it a thumbs up.
You got to do it yourself. You got to do it yourself.
You got to go like yourself thatyou have to form that on your
own. Like I my goodness, that's also

(02:42:19):
every time he like tries to ask people what they think about
like his alter ego. He's like, what do you think
about the man in black? And then Cameron Diaz is like.
Johnny Cash. Oh, it's.
So it's really like no green Hornet, man.
Oh no, those it did a really good job doing what it wanted to

(02:42:42):
do, which again, that's that's exactly criminally
underappreciated. That's that's exactly what you
want. Like what is this movie trying
to do? Did it do it?
Yes, OK, great, excellent. There we are.
Honestly, I at this point in time, it's been like a good five
years or more since I've seen Green Hornet and I that's like,

(02:43:05):
that's criminal. I, I was for a long time.
I would see it like at least once every one to two years.
Yeah, there's a handful of, you know, elf.
I watch elf every year. You know, it's kind of kind of
the same way draft day, like just, you know, again, you know,
what is drafted, you can give ita star rating.

(02:43:26):
No, you can't. And you shouldn't review it
either. And you shouldn't try and
analyze it because you're just wasting your time.
Either enjoy it or don't watch it.
Yeah. For sure.
But you know what we always enjoy, and I mean always Ed
Palace. And we enjoy chatting with you
fine folks here on Derailed. Coach Lynn, thanks for hanging

(02:43:50):
out with us. Oh, I missed this comment.
I didn't even see it pop up in here.
Adam Huddle said he finally saw Final Reckoning.
Adam, I cannot remember if you were here.
Was it last week, Jake? Was it last week that we did our
full review of the entire Mission Impossible series?
So, Adam, I can't remember if you were here for that, but glad

(02:44:11):
you saw Final Reckoning. Did you like it?
We're going to hop off of here. Thank you so much for watching
and listening and chatting with us.
We appreciate you. We love you in the words the
late great Mr. Ed policy on behalf of Packer fans everyone
for Jake Chavink, this has been derailed.

(02:44:34):
Go. Back.
Go.

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