Ranking Brian Gutekunst, Plus Packers Confidence Meter at Every Position

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
I woke up 1 morning just a regular schmo.
Green Bay was restless. Spirit ran low and then it hit
me. I had to let it show.
So shout it so loud. Go, pack.
Go. But the fans started roaring.

(00:38):
Lambeau Field shook from the very first moment.
That's all it took down the line.
If I told you I could bare the thought.
Stealing a chance some soccer team God.
No need for a Viking to borrow June.
I choose out the power, the frozen monsoon, the acrylic.

(01:04):
Did you viral the line? But that's not my policy.
These words are mine. That she's head spit go back,

(01:32):
go. He was hot up and loud
screaming. Go back, go.
Said, you know, we ain't no choir.
Go back, go. So we shouted so loud.
Go back, go, go back, go. Yeah, go back, go.

(02:09):
Welcome back to Derailed. I'm your humble host JJ Leahy
here with my best friend Jake Shravink.
Jake, today we're going to be talking about some cool stuff.
You picked the topics today, which I'm excited about.
Appreciate you for doing that. And I did my homework from last
week. You may recall that I committed

(02:32):
to watching Paddington 2 and reviewing it for this podcast.
That is true. You did say you were going to do
that. Yeah, I did it.
So here's the thing. I had at least one person who

(02:53):
watches the show reach out to meand mention that because of our
discussion on the last episode about how Paddington 2 is
supposed to be one of the best sequels of all time, this person
then went and watched Paddington2.
She made her husband watch it with her.
OK, This is before I got around to watching it.
So obviously, like, I had to follow through at that point.

(03:16):
And she's like, yeah, it was. It was all right.
Wasn't like amazing, but it was mildly entertaining and I was
like, oh man, I hope this is hope this is a good time.
So I I sat down and I watched the whole thing and it was just

(03:37):
all right. It didn't live up to kind of the
hype. OK, Wow.
Jake, can I play you a clip? Not from Paddington 2, but one
of the one of the things out there that made me think that
like Paddington 2 was going to be an experience.
Can I play this for you? Sure.

(03:57):
OK, I censored it because there were a couple of naughty words
in there so I went through, manually muted the audio at
those points because I care about our listeners that much
and this is a family friendly show, gosh darn it.
So here we go. This is from the Unbearable
Weight of Massive Talent with Nick Cage and Pedro Pascal.

(04:19):
Love this movie but this is thisis the clip.
Thank you. Can you just stop stalling and
answer the question? What is your third favorite
movie of all time? Paddington 2.
What? Cabinet Doctor Calgary

(04:40):
Paddington 2 Connect those dots.I mean I don't want to be a
snob, but I cried for the entirething and made me want to be a
better man. Padding it too is incredible.

(05:04):
Man, I had high, I mean like skyhigh expectations walking into
this movie and it was just, it was just I, it was fine.
Interesting. It was, it was kind of cute.
It was very much just like a kids movie, though, which is
like what I think anybody would have expected, you know, going

(05:25):
into such a movie, you would have expected it's a kids movie.
And it just was Dominog Gleeson was in it, and he was, he was
one of two really bright spots in the movie.
Hugh. Hugh Grant was the other bright
spot. Drew says Aliens or Paddington
2. Well, I'm telling you, man,

(05:46):
Aliens. I can't remember if I put Aliens
in my top five sequels of all time last week.
I know we ranked it highly two weeks ago.
Yeah, it was 2 weeks ago. Paddington 2 is like Paddington
2 is not like a top 20 sequel ofall time.

(06:07):
Wow. I didn't see the first one.
And after seeing the second one,I don't feel any need to see the
first one. But listen, I do a lot for you
guys and this was one of those things that I did for you.
So too old for this. Mentioned that he's got to go
see the new Superman movie. He said for all I care, it's air

(06:31):
bud with an alien. I don't know anything about the
new Superman movie. I am planning on seeing it.
I didn't check Rotten Tomatoes to see if it has good reviews or
not. That's that was kind of my plan
was like see if it has good rotten tomato ratings and then
decide if I'm going to see it intheater and if they're not good,
then waiting for it wait for it to come out on on streaming.

(06:52):
Jake, did you see the new Superman movie yet?
I have not Do you are you planning on saying do you like
Superman? Do you like DCI?
Think D CS been been all right? I don't think I'm super caught
up but I I, I think I'll check this one out for sure.
OK. I don't know if it'll be in
theaters or not, but I I will atsome point.

(07:16):
I I always get my hopes up for new Superman movies.
I I don't feel like they've madea good Superman movie like in my
lifetime. Like the original Christopher
Reeves. Superman is a baller movie that
is so good. And then like you know, of all
the ones that came out like during my lifetime, they've all

(07:37):
been just kind of OK. I feel like now I did not.
I'm not counting Smallville in there because it's ATV show and
not a movie. As far as all the movies go, I
just I've never felt like any ofthe Superman movies they've made
during my lifetime have really been worth it.
Kind of it's like the anti Batman.
Like every Batman movie that hascome out in my lifetime was at

(08:00):
least worth seeing. Every Superman movie that came
out in my lifetime, I felt like you could miss it and it'd be,
you know, not the end of the world.
Yeah I randomly agree. Random comment here says odd to

(08:21):
see you here. Oops, never saw this pod Just
popped up on the old homepage though.
Are you a Packer fan? If you're a Packer fan or a
Northern college football fan oran NFL draft fan, think you'll
have a good time. We like to hang out and and have
fun here. I appreciate you checking this
out. So.

(08:44):
So Jake, yeah, give us a previewof what we're talking about
today. Oh, Drew says this is probably
the best Superman in our lifetime.
That's not saying much. It isn't.
But unfortunately, but that's that's at least some, some, some
decent news there. I I did miss his earlier
comment. He said I saw the new Superman.

(09:04):
It's good. But just remember it's a movie
for families. So it's not a super serious
Superman. I feel like that's the way to go
though. Like, I don't think Superman.
Yeah, I don't think you have to be super is great when he's
really serious. Like Batman can be serious.
I don't think there's enough meat there with Superman for it
to work with him being serious. Like it doesn't need to be a
comedy but like the Christopher Reeves Superman was light

(09:28):
hearted and hopeful and optimistic and then the Henry
Cavill Superman was like just Batman in blue Super bat.
And that didn't work for me. Bat Superman bat Superman bat
Superman. My my 2 year old daughter is
mega into superheroes and she doesn't get Superman and Batman

(09:49):
mixed up like if she looks at them but she cannot keep
straight which, which superhero has which powers.
So she keeps coming up to me to me and asking me if Batman can
fly. I tell her no, he can kind of,
you know, jump off a blue glide.Why could fall with style.
And so then she's like, OK, but he does have lasers in his eye.

(10:10):
No, it's still Superman. Yeah.
Batman has money. That, that, that is, that's
superpower. We saw, you know, Iron Man, that
who was the other. Who's the other one?
Who? Powers his money.
I mean Green Hornet, you know. Well, yeah.

(10:33):
Certainly I. Think there's one other guy
who's. Superpower with just money and
tech. I can't think who it is.
A few super villains who fit that role there.
Yes, that is true. I mean, it's basically that's
basically Lex Luthor. You know, it's interesting.
Lex Luthor is basically evil Batman.

(10:53):
Probably explains why Superman doesn't go along with either one
of them. Yeah, it's true.
Oh, Drew has a whole podcast topic right here.
I mean, like, he's objectively correct when he says that his
favorite Joker is Heath Ledger. Obviously that's correct.
Yes, of course. But still, ranking and
discussing the various Jokers isa worthwhile podcast episode.

(11:17):
All right, Drew, quit getting meoff track.
OK, Jake is trying to answer thequestion and you keep
distracting me by saying really interesting things that I want
to talk about. OK, so I'm, I'm just not gonna
look at your comment right now because I feel I I can tell
you're about to drop another juicy one right in there.
I'm not looking. Go ahead, Jake.
OK, so a couple things wanted tocover tonight because we're

(11:41):
gonna have, I'm sure plenty to talk about next Tuesday.
Funny enough, lot of training camps are going to get underway.
Then some rookies will be in camp by Saturday, Sunday, I
think for the most part. But I wanted to do this before
we got there because we've been doing a lot of like, you know,

(12:03):
we we've kind of been tearing some of the Packers players.
You know, we've been doing all of that.
But I, I, I thought we could talk about like how head coach
and GM stack up to the rest of the league here.
How, you know, there, there havebeen some lists that are coming
out on ESPN that have talked, you know, that they're pulling

(12:24):
execs, coaches, scouts about certain position rankings, which
I think is really interesting tohear from, you know, what the
league thinks there. And maybe we get to that.
But we, we've also seen some sites and, and you know, some
people in media dropping GM rankings and head coach
rankings. And I think it's, I think it's

(12:45):
interesting to see, you know, and I think also because JJ did
send me the other part of this, but because head coach was
included in that and we'll get there that kind of spurned on
this, the idea of like, all right, how do these guys stack
up? What's the kind of the
confidence in, in these two relative to everyone else?
So do you want to start in the coaching sphere or the GM

(13:10):
sphere? I I think that there's maybe
more meat on the GM side of it and maybe that maybe I feel that
way because of how many conversations you and I have had
about our feelings toward the job that Guti has done like this

(13:37):
past year. Yeah.
So it's, it's July right now. You know, I would say going back
to like April 2024 has been a, a, maybe a marked shift in how
you and I have been talking about the moves that Goody has
made. So I I think from that

(13:58):
standpoint that makes the GM conversation an interesting one
to have. OK.
I like it. Listen, Hugh, I can't.
I can't say your whole name, Allright?
You know why I can't say it, so I'll just say Hugh #1 Hugh #1
Hugh says Nick Sirianni would make a good joker.

(14:22):
Yeah, no, I certainly makes sense.
OK, so we're doing GM first because Patrick Doherty on on
NBC Sports came out with a list about a month ago.
And any any guesses for JJ? And I don't know if JJ if you've
read this or not, if you've looked.

(14:42):
I haven't. I was starting to Google it.
I, I closed that tab. I thought I was going to Google
it so I could put it up on the screen.
But when you we will now I thinkyou're going to make me guess.
So I I haven't, I don't, haven'tseen it.
So where do you think Brian Goudekunst comes in on the list
now? I would, I would have.
I'm going to preface one thing on this list.
OK, really quick. And I think he did a smart thing

(15:04):
here is he didn't technically rank all 32.
He left the new hires at the bottom because we haven't seen
anything yet other than one offseason that hasn't been paid
off by anything to this point, right?
So 20, yeah. So four of the 32 are not
ranked, right? That would be Borganzi in

(15:24):
Tennessee. That would be Gladstone in
Jacksonville, Darren Moogie in the for The Jets and then
Spytech in Vegas. So those guys are not on the
table. So it's really a top 28.
But where do we think Goody ranks on this list?
Who who did the ranking was did did Patrick do the ranking on
this or was polling some people?No, this is, this is Patrick's

(15:46):
ranking. This is not polling.
This is his. Yeah, well, that's tough then.
If it was a poll, I would expectGoody to come in on a list like
this approximately #7 I would expect his range to be anywhere
from 6:00 to 8:00 if this was a pole, just based on how people

(16:11):
around the league generally think.
Of goody. So with this being Patrick's
opinion, and I don't know anything about Patrick's views
on the Packers, I'll, I'll just go with, you know, where I would
expect him to be on a pole, OK, and say I think he probably came
in seven. Where where was he?

(16:31):
Drew also said seven. I would love everyone else in
here would also drop these theirguesses, Drew said.
I found it. I'm nervous too fascinating
really high until we know love is a hit while while people are

(16:53):
waiting to guess in the comments.
JJ, do you have any thoughts on who might be #1 before I give
that prediction, can I? Do you want to know, do you want
to guess who's 28th? It had better be somebody along

(17:14):
the lines of Ryan Poles or Mickey Loomis or somebody.
If either Poles or Loomis are ahead of Goody, I'm gonna go
find this Patrick guy and block him.
No, I, I'm gonna I'll, I'll put this, I'll put this out there.
Neither of them are anywhere close to where Goody is, OK?
Neither Loomis nor Poles, but neither are 28th, neither or

(17:35):
28th. I'm trying to think like, who do
other people think is like a really crappy GM?
Because I know who I think is really crappy.
GM. The Saints are not 28, Drew.
They are not. He's not making Loomis at 28.
OK, I'm I I don't love asking. Can I ask where Omar Khan is on

(17:58):
this list? 19?
That's about fair, I would say. I think his I think that his
drafts have been OK and his freeagency moves have been kind of,
I appreciate that Omar Khan rebuilt the Steelers offensive

(18:19):
line. That's a big, that was a
disaster class of an offensive line when he got there.
Yes. And he is post Kenny Pickett
selection, by the way, I believe.
I believe that was Colbert's last one.
Coach. Len says the Vikings GM is bad
and he asked if the Browns GM is28th.
No, that I think Quasi is bad. I think I'm, I will say I'm very

(18:44):
glad that Quasi. I'll say I'm very glad Quasi is
in the league doing what he's doing because I want to see
somebody doing somebody trying what he's trying.
And I will say, so far, do you think, JJ, do you think Quasi is
above or below Omar Khan? And where would you place him

(19:08):
relative to Omar Khan? Yeah, No.
Drew, hold on. Drew Raiders, the Raiders GM
Spytek is new. So he was not ranked in the 28.
The the four new GMs were not ranked in this.
They were just put little blurbsat the bottom.
Wait a minute, Is Jerry Jones 28?
He shouldn't be, but that would be no, no, no.

(19:31):
OK, no. Now who's The Jets new GM?
Darren Moogie. Moogie.
So he's obviously not in that list either.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I I would have put yeah,

(19:51):
I think there are a few candidates that I might have
guessed before this guy, but also when they think about it, I
I would put Duke Tobin pretty low on the list for the Bengals.
I think. I think it's a pretty mediocre
GMI think if Tobin didn't draft some of these offensive players

(20:11):
100% he would be very low. But because he drafted kind of
the like, oh, these are the like, yeah, for sure we're going
to take these guys offensive players.
I think he'd be a lot lower. I he's not very high, I will say
on this list. But yeah, I some of the some of
the bottom half rankings. I'm I'm a little confused that,

(20:34):
but let let's so I let's get to let's is, is George Patton still
in the league? Yes, he is.
OK, I would put him, I put him pretty low.
OK, Honestly, I would put him down like just ahead of Ryan
Polls and Mickey Loomis. I think.

(20:58):
I think the top GMs in the NFL have to be #1 Howie Roseman is
1. Yes, that's correct.
And then I'm not saying this is where I'd put him, but I think
if you put Brad Holmes for the Lions at #2 I think that that

(21:18):
would not be a terrible ranking.He's done.
He's got a lot of hits in the draft.
He does. And he is continually stacking
talent in the trenches, which I really value.
I will say. He is the fantastic D line and O
line. He is not.
He's not 2 on this list. So I'm, I, I, I'm, I'm gonna,

(21:38):
I'm gonna say somebody like really crazy.
Is it #2 like, I don't know JohnLynch or somebody, no.
Brett Beach. Yes.
Brett Beach, that's Oh my gosh. So I mean, hey, Drew, whatever.

(21:59):
Drew, his team is getting all the Drew balls, All right, You
know, whatever. If you want to, if you want to
give him that credit, I guess goahead.
I wouldn't do it. OK, Drew has gotten it correct
as far as 28 goes. It is Joe Shane on this list.
He is 28th. Oh, my gosh.
I thought he got fired. No, he is still there.
I I forgot he's still there. Yeah.

(22:21):
So I thought for sure he was gone.
They hung on for another year. That's very deserved.
That's very deserved. He is, he is worse than Ryan
Poles, which is saying this. I would, I would agree with
that. Not to go through everybody, but
I, I I want to put some notablesout there.
He does have Dan Morgan at 27 for the Carolina Panthers.
I think there's a good chance heclimbs above quite a few names

(22:43):
that are above him right now. Personally, I, I think that
they're doing, I think the rightstuff to kind of climb out of
this horrendous hole that they put themselves in.
Terry Fontenot is 24th on the list, I do think.
And I Yeah, and I do think the it's very much tonight, Patrick

(23:06):
Doherty and Kevin Clark on on this is football talked about
this list a little bit and kind of went in depth.
And I I agree with like Fontenotdoing what he did in April,
trading up in the first, giving up a future first.
Not sure you are ready for that,my good Sir.
I'm not sure that that is a teamthat is should be doing stuff
like that right now. You need to figure out a, if the

(23:28):
quarterback is worth making moves like that, you haven't
done it. So I don't think you can do
that. You're not the you're not the
overwhelming favorite in your division, right?
Like we're not getting any of that.
Like who would you, who would you expect to make big moves?
Kansas City, Buffalo, Baltimore,Philly, Baltimore and Philly

(23:48):
will never do that. They love having 18 swings on
day three apiece, right? So, but so Fontano, they have
good GMs, right? So Fontano down there.
Andrew Barry ended up 22nd, by the way.
Poles was 23rd. It's way too high for Andrew
Berry. Andrew Berry, I would say.

(24:09):
So if we got Joe Shane at 28, Ryan Pulls at 27, who was the
other guy we were just talking about?
So Dan Morgan was 27. Elliott Wolf for New England was
26 on this list. I would have Andrew Berry below
both of those guys. Yeah, I don't.

(24:30):
Dan Morgan. I'm not sure.
I'm not sure why he's getting unless he was there for the
trade, Drew said. I would put.
I don't think he's there. John Lynch toward the bottom.
He took over a great team. They faded in talent badly.
I've never thought he was a great GMI mean Purdy.
Purdy is saving his reputation right now.

(24:52):
Oh absolutely, because he gave three first round picks for Trey
Lance. He gave an old load of picks for
Christian McCaffrey. It's the only way it would work.
Well, the other thing that besides the Purdy thing, the
other thing that keeps saving his butt is that the 49ers
organization keeps getting minority executives and coaches

(25:14):
hired away to other teams, whichunder the expanded Rooney Rules
gives you. 2. Free third round picks every
time that happens. The problem is though you have
they don't. They use them on running backs
or kickers. But but this is what I'm saying.
He has kicks to burn. They aren't doing the right
things with those picks. No, they're not.

(25:36):
But it's it, it's it's he makes so many terrible moves, but he
has a ton of ammunition to make those terrible moves with.
So the team kind of just backslides a little bit every
year instead of like, going completely in the toilet every
single year. Yeah, so.
All right. A couple other notables you
brought up Duke Tobin. He's at 17.

(26:00):
That's one that I feel again. If didn't if he didn't sign
Hendrickson, they didn't make a couple moves at defensive tackle
and free agency right? The free agency's been better
but letting young talent defenseleave, not loving that and
drafting on defense has been horrendous.
Look at their last four ish drafts.

(26:23):
Another notable 1. They do have Quasi at 13.
I'm not sure if I'd put him above Ortiz in LA with the
Chargers even though it's been one year for him.
Casserio is 12th. They're obviously this is
heavily on the Stroud Anderson thing that is carrying him.
A notable that I vehemently disagree with because I think he

(26:45):
should be much higher based on his draft.
Based on his previous several drafts is Jason Light.
Not sure why he's 10th. I would put him above even
though Schneider had that incredible draft back in 2011.
That was over a decade ago. We can't do that.
Jason Light should be way ahead of Schneider.

(27:05):
The. The one thing that so.
Schneider has done two things since the Legion of Boom Draft 1
is he had the Broncos trade withRussell Wilson and that that was
a fantastic move that Brian Goodkins should have made.
Second was I think he used the draft picks he got from that

(27:26):
trade very wisely. So this is when he's getting Hua
like Charles Cross bunch of bunch of fantastic players to
rebuild that team to the point where they don't even have a
quarterback, have not had a quarterback at any point and
they've been a crazy good team that you would you would say is
completely outperformed what youthink they should without having

(27:49):
a quarterback. And I still think they don't
have one at the moment either. No, they don't.
Isn't it Sam Darnold? It is.
So yes. So I don't think that will get
done. I would put light above Brandon
Bean at 8:00 with the Bills again, Shanny, Shanny and
Lyncher at 7:00. There's no absolutely no
possible way I would rank those guys over Jason light.

(28:12):
We're getting into the top 7. And if you notice that Goody has
not been mentioned yet. So those who have guessed 7 or
lower. It's not correct.
OK, number six, JJ is Brad Holmes.
Wow. So he's got a Goody ahead of
Brad Holmes. He does.

(28:32):
At 5, Goody is ranked 5th on this list behind again, I think
personally it should be behind Roseman.
They have Vecha 2 which we already discussed.
They have McVeigh and Sneed at 3:00, and they have Dacosta at
four. I would switch out for sure.

(28:52):
You you could maybe argue Holmesabove Goody, which I wouldn't
bat my eyes at too badly, but I think Roseman, Dacosta, and
Light were the first three that came to mind immediately when
trying to make this list. And then I think you get into
that second tier where, yeah, I think, you know, the Rams burned
a lot of picks going after vets,but they have done a really nice

(29:16):
job a retooling that the pass was without without Aaron
Donald. And two, they continue to find
gems late. Kyron Williams was a late round
pick, Puku Takua late round pick.
They got Cam Kenshin's at a big discount.
He's doing he's doing he he did pretty well as far as rookies
go. But yeah, I mean, Holmes

(29:37):
Goudekus I think are right in that next tier.
And, you know, you could probably again, throw Bean and
and Veach in there because of the QBs and and I think you're
starting to build a pretty good list.
So, yeah, Goody at 5. How do we feel about that?
Do we feel, you know, pretty good?
Do we think he should be above Brad Holmes or not?
You know, I think I know the perfect way to answer this.

(29:59):
OK, let's do it. Let's hear it.
You are you excited? You should be absolutely.
Here's the perfect way to answerit with our own tier, the noobs,
the noobs all right, I think I got a boobs all right, so and we
can adjust how many guys we havein each of these categories If

(30:22):
it's if it's not feeling right. I was I was kind of eyeballing
it. So so are we in agreement that
we don't know enough about thesefor noobs to rank them?
I, I will put a couple things quickly out there.
I really like what the Raiders are doing now.
Again, selecting a running back at the top 10 is a tough pill to

(30:42):
swallow when he's getting a ton of guaranteed money.
However, they took a lot of swings at offensive line, two of
them at the end of the third round, which I really like that.
So they're they're they're trying to do something.
They're getting a lot out of Parham.
It's kind of a mid round pick. Colt Miller's fine.
We kind of talked about him at left tackle.
I think they're doing smart things.

(31:03):
They got Bowers in the building.Jacoby Myers is fine.
I'm interested to see how Jack Besh does this year and and and
Geno Smith's there to kind of run the show until they find the
long term guy. Beyond him, I really like what
Spytech's doing. I think I think it was a very,
very strong draft from him. Oh, and hopefully Jackson powers
Johnson, right? JPJ guy we talked about a lot in

(31:24):
the 2024 cycle. Hopefully he can get things
rolling as well. So that offensive line and, and
they have the Texas Tech kit that we talked about a lot in
the last month. They got him Caleb Rogers in the
draft, one of the one of one of my favorite ones in at the end
of round 3. So I, I do like what Vegas is
trying to do. Find your bridge.

(31:45):
Don't give an up. Don't give up a ton for for
veteran QB, but have some stability.
Don't throw Aidan O'Connell out there anymore.
You know that that kind of thing.
So I I do like that everyone else kind of plotted along.
I know Gladstone gave up a bunchto go get Hunter.
Is it going to pay off? Guess it depends on what you

(32:05):
think of Hunter. But you know, Cleveland's
already got some of those picks coming back in the Jacksonville
trade not doing so well if you've been in the news
recently. So you know, we'll we'll see how
that all shakes out. But as far as Titans and jets
go, kind of pretty, you know, quiet off seasons other than the
Titans, of course, JJ having thenumber one overall selection and

(32:27):
taking Cam Ward. So that's what that's all I
really wanted to quick say aboutthe noobs.
By the way, wasn't there somebody on this podcast?
I forget who it was. I was one of the hosts of this
podcast beating the drum all last year about how the Titans
were going to have the number one overall pick in the draft.
I do remember that was somebody else like spring of last year.
I I can't. Remember what it was.
Me either. I think it was a he's got a nice

(32:50):
beard though, and he might be wearing a hat.
I think it was you, but with a really long beard, Yes, and a
hat. And so that's true.
But no, it wasn't true. It wasn't me.
It was not me, funny enough. So all right, top 3425262728,

(33:13):
this is the bottom five guys. It is, but I think top object
putting Andrew Berry in the bottom 5.
No, I don't object to that one bit.
Andrew Berry goes down there, may I say?
I think putting the top three together is probably the easiest
part of this exercise after thisone, I think.
I think these three are. I think Fontenot's got to be in

(33:34):
that. I think Fontenot, I think we can
wait a little bit on putting Fontenot on here.
I don't know if he's an You're going to put Loomis there,
right? You're doing Loomis there.
I think I got to put Loomis downhere as well.
Yeah, no, I don't. Do you object to Howie Roseman
in the top three? No, I think that's, that has to
be the case, for sure. I mean, I feel like he has to be

(33:56):
#1 I yes. Here's my favorite thing about
Howie Roseman. My favorite thing about Howie
Roseman, as somebody who is certainly not an Eagles fan, no,
I can't stand them. But my favorite thing about Hana
Rosman is that he people have like analyzed his drafts and
have determined that he is allocating year over year the

(34:19):
amount of draft capital proportional to like the value
added by each position group. So he's like spending the most
draft capital, you know, over the years on quarterback and the
second most on. So I love that he does that.
And it's clearly intentional andit's been paying off.

(34:42):
I love that he was bold enough to take Jalen Hurts at a time
when everybody said, wow, that is a stupid pick because you got
Carson Wentz Wentz and he's, youknow, MVP caliber.
And then, you know, I'll have toshare the gap.
I'll have to find the clip and go find it on my 2020 draft show

(35:02):
when I talked about the Hertz pick because that has aged
really nicely. It was a lot of freak out going
on because as, as as you were saying there, there was a lot of
freak out going on. Like, why in the heck would
this, why, why would they do this?
Well, turns out now just just staying.
I could not believe that Hertz fell to the second round.
I absolutely had him as a first round talent.

(35:25):
I loved what I saw in him as an NFL prospect.
There's a lot of people, you know, making cases that oh, he
gets carried by, you know, the Eagles roster, whatever.
Dude makes it work. And he does so in the way that I
thought he was going to. You know, when I looked at the
tools he had coming into the league, I valued what he could

(35:46):
do enough to spend a first roundpick on him.
And I think that he has absolutely lived up to that.
I believe Jalen Hertz has the highest round two grade of
anybody I've had I think ever. So I didn't have in the first,
but I I do remember there was a lot of talk about the Jakes in
that class as well of like, man,they team should definitely be

(36:07):
picking from or Eason over Hertz.
And it that was just gosh, it was unbelievable that people
were even saying that. I remember I did a JJI did a
group 32 team group mock with some folks on the side I was
writing for at the time and I got hurts for the Colts.
Could you imagine? No, I can't because they solve a

(36:30):
lot of problems just for his QB handling just that who is who's
going to be the fifth team on here?
Can I 01 more thing on Roseman as we're putting this just a
couple of quick points because you made a really good one.
Yes, the the position allocation, what he's done in
the draft has been really good. I loved what he said.
If you've watched their kind of behind the scenes draft, like

(36:52):
the kind of documentary they didthis year, Rosman's Rosman
probably would get me. So I think all of us that love
the draft would be hyped. Sitting in his room on day
three. That guy is bringing immense
energy for day three saying no, hey, we got a lot of picks.
We're looking for starters. We're not messing around.
We're not looking for depth, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

(37:13):
Not looking for special teamers.No, we're going to look for
starters. We hit on 2 of like the six or
seven, you know that we have today.
Great. We're doing the right stuff and
I just love how you know he approaches that.
If you haven't watched it, guys,go watch it.
He has committed a ton of the trenches.
We know that right a ton, especially on the defensive line

(37:36):
last few years, but then the thekind of the oh, he doesn't
really he hasn't taken a lot of corners high.
What's going on with that? Bam Mitchell to Jean
back-to-back in the same draft. OK, no, I'm going to take care
of this Bradbury and Slayer getting old.
I'm not they're not sticking around long enough.
And also when it comes to being,you know, kind of wading through

(37:58):
the free agent market 1 he can get aggressive.
Went and traded for A.J. Brown, right, Said no, we need
we're we're getting Jalen Hurts a a dude next to Devante Smith
and we're going to build this sowe can have two guys who can
really take advantage of how Hertz threw the deep ball, which
I thought was a massive, massivestrength of his coming out of

(38:20):
Oklahoma. And so they're not afraid to get
aggressive, but they also love doing the the one year rentals.
Like can this guy be good? You know, projects that have
dropped off. Goody's done this a couple
times, right? We talked about Rasul Douglas,
we talked about Devondre Campbell kind of picking them,
you know, off the street, maybe a little later than Rosman does
it, but it with with the same success, right.
But Rosamund does it, you know, Hey, let's go get Makai Beck and

(38:42):
see if he can be a guard, right?Let's go get Zac Bond.
We don't think he's an edge rusher.
He's a linebacker. Let's go do that, right.
He he takes those kind of one year swings that I think are are
really smart and and really shrewd where you know, hey, this
is a hole. Let's see if this guy can do it
and and and at the very least get in a competition to see if
he's got it. So I think Rosamund is

(39:03):
aggressive when he needs to be, but also like another guy who
I'm going to advocate for being in the top three says, OK, it's
the draft. We have all this info.
Nobody has an edge over knowing anything over one another.
So at this point, right, you have to maximize the swings,
right? That's that's the deal.

(39:24):
This is a lottery. You need to swing more at this
point. So yeah, I, I all in.
He's one, There's no question could honestly make a tier for
him. No, no, no, we, we, we got, we
got top three. I did think about having just a
Howie tier. I did actually think about that,
but I decided top three was goodenough.

(39:45):
Gold, silver and and bronze or copper, you know, Yeah, my
daughter's been talking a lot about copper this week, so.
Copper's not great there we. Go who?
Who would your number 2 be afterHowie?
I'm curious I think. I think you can go one of two
directions, for me at least. I think it's either Jason Light
or it's Eric Tacosta. I think those are the two names

(40:07):
that I would throw into the top three.
I think there are arguments maybe for Holmes, who has done a
tremendous job trying to think who else.
I think Les Sneed is a perfect guy for in that 4 to 8 range.
I don't think I would necessarily throw him in the top
three, though. Yeah, well, I'm, I'm not sure

(40:28):
yet where we're going to consensus end up putting less
Sneed. I certainly like him a lot less
than most football. Sure panelists out there do who
you said, Decosta. Let me see.
Where's the ribbons at? Well, I see the ribbons.
Alphabetical Baltimore. Thank you.

(40:49):
There we go. All right.
Those three guys were are kind of in that in that top echelon
here. I kind of I kind of want to do a
little bit of sorting down here.We do some sorting like who else
do we think like stinks. Like, I think Duke Tobin kind of
stinks. Yes, but does he?
Stink more so Duke Tobin or Chris Greer in Miami.

(41:12):
I mean, I'd have to say I think that that Tobin has far fewer
hits than Greer does. Really.
Like just on a year to year basis over the last few years.
I mean I the Bengals just are not drafting good players.
When did Grier start? Grier has been there since Holy.
Crap. Which which puts him there's

(41:34):
there's only like 7 guys who've been around longer than Grier.
I mean he got Jerry Jones has been around since the 80s Duke
Tobin's the only other guy who'spre 2000.
Mickey Loomis got hired in O2. Roseman and Schneider were both
2010. Lesnie's been there since 2012.

(41:58):
Jason Light's been there since 2014.
So those are the only guys who have been in league longer than
Chris Greer Drew votes for Cincinnati over Miami.
I just like other than first round picks and I would actually
say like, pretty darn early first round picks, what has

(42:18):
Tobin done in years? Like Trey Hendrickson was what,
fourth round pick? Fifth round pick?
That was the Saints. That's right.
He wasn't that's right. He was not a draft pick by the
Bengals. They get signed like, I mean,
OK, yeah. I mean, what what, what what

(42:40):
drafting credit are we going to give to to Duke?
Yeah. So I guess, I guess consent this
number one quarterback with the number one pick.
I guess I don't think that's a feather in your cap.
Tonsil Howard in 2016 is a good start for Miami, although they
got kind of gifted Tunsil because of Tunsil's dad would
never have gotten him. See Drew's talking about T

(43:01):
Higgins. Like OK, first of all, I I still
am not high on T Higgins. He's an OK he he is a pretty
darn decent wide receiver too, who was a projected first round
pick, fell out of the first round and got taken in the
second round. I'm just not giving him a ton of

(43:21):
credit for finding a wider zebratwo in the second round.
They got Minka. He picked Chase when a lot
wouldn't have I. I feel like Jamar Chase was a
consensus top top ten pick when he was taken was he not?
No, those that trio, that Chase Smith, Waddle trio were all
like. Yeah.
Thought of very highly, Yeah. I think he's done a little bit

(43:45):
more on the on the defensive side than Tobin has.
I just feel like offensive line wise, I feel like Tobin's at
least tried stuff that's better.The picks that that Grier has
made along the old line, boy, they're rough.

(44:07):
Like again, this is I I the Austin Jackson pick rings in my
head so, so loudly. But yeah, I'll leave it.
I guess he's been around a little longer.
I'll be OK with that. Yeah.
Dallas, The Chargers, Minnesota.Yeah, trying to think here.

(44:35):
So I think. Probably Buffalo's A-Team, whose
drafts I often do not like. Yeah.
However, they're doing the thingthat I often don't like Green
Bay doing because they like T Higgins would be a wide
receiver. One on half the teams in the
NFL. No half.

(44:57):
Hold on, hold on. I've got the teams.
Drew also thinks Higgins. Philly, absolutely not.
Philly, no. I personally.
Chicago, no. The Giants, absolutely not.
Jets, no. Jags, no.
Tennessee, Sure. Yeah, but Tennessee doesn't have

(45:19):
any football players. I know.
I'm just going through personally don't think he's
better than Olave in New Orleans.
No, he's not better than Olave. Detroit, No Tampa Bay and no
Green Bay. Maybe he would.
He would. He would be a one for the
Packers. Yeah.

(45:39):
He would be a one for Kansas City.
Maybe, maybe the who's who's thecold sweaters you've won right
now. Well, I guess it depends on who
you ask. I'm asking you.
Pittman is like de facto, I think Downs are better than

(45:59):
Pittman. I, I, I think Downs is better
than Pittman, though personally,I think Downs is better than
Higgins and Higgins is better than Pittman.
Yeah. Atlanta, no.
Arizona, no. Buffalo, yes.
But what? You know, the tech conversations
fun in Carolina, Cortland Sutton.

(46:22):
Yeah, that's that's tricky. LA, absolutely, absolutely not
in LA, New England, I guess so with Diggs, he's not better than
Maclaurin. Yeah.
Higgins Higgins today is better than Digs today.
Yeah. Not better than DK, he's not

(46:44):
better than D KS, not better than JSNJSNJSN, Waddle slot,
Miami and Cincinnati AB. I mean Miami obviously he's not.
He's not a one on the Eagles. He's probably not better than
Zay. I don't know about.
Half I don't. Know he's I I personally think

(47:05):
he's a little more limited than he's a wide receiver one for
like 5 teams in the league, maybe maybe 7.
I think, I think 8 or 9 I think is is a doable number, but
that's that's assuming that we don't get some breakouts in some
spots, which very well could. If anybody says he'd be wide

(47:27):
receiver one it with the Chargers see yourself out.
Get out of here. It's not even like like I just
lads already better than Frank Higgins ahead of Matthew Golden
and Tet, because we haven't seeneither of those right.
Exactly. But it doesn't.
It would only take a few games for us to.
Yeah. There are probably 8 or 9 teams
on here, but I don't think half personally.

(47:51):
But he has a good red zone target.
But I mean, I think he's three phase or or three level
personally. Here's what I'm struggling with
is like, so in our in our top three, yeah, like Roseman's one,
but the Casa Holmes and Light, one of those guys has to go into

(48:13):
that next tier. Seriously concerns Drew.
That's stretching it a bit. What I don't like, he's not a
three level threat and I don't think he's a three phase.
Threat. Doesn't do anything for me after
the catch at all. I don't think his intermediate
game is very good from a row tree perspective, but I think
that's I think that's kind of the biggest thing.

(48:34):
I I think I probably like him even more than JJ does.
I think he's a very, very good too.
I just don't know. I just don't know if you like a
lot of players more than I do isolation guy like again, it's
only been one year. I get it.
But like, neighbors, Ladd and Brian Thomas are all like,

(48:57):
they're all soaring right now. And I think Marv's going to be,
Marv's going to be just fine. So like Higgins, Higgins is
quite good. I, I, I can't wait to see what
happens tomorrow when ESPN releases their receiver rankings
based on the poll that they do for execs, coaches and scouts,

(49:21):
because I'm probably going to have serious reservations about
it. But yeah, again, I think I, I
think close to half is, is, is very possible.
I, I think you could potentiallyget it up to a dozen because JSN
plays the slot, Downs plays the slot, right?
And so, and I think they're likelike Buffalo, like obviously

(49:44):
Buffalo could use him, no question about it.
But I do think like, I think they're really high quality twos
in this league. I think there's a few guys who
are going to show that this year.
Again, if San Francisco's an interesting conversation for for
T Higgins, that's that's an interesting one.

(50:08):
For sure. So somebody to monitor again, T
Higgins, I think, you know, he is as, as you said, Coach
Lenny's healthier than Olave is.And that's the struggle with
Olave. He's probably a better player
than Jameson is right now, I would say.

(50:29):
But yeah, that's that's a fun conversation to go through.
Didn't think we were going to bedoing that this evening, but
that's I'll have to think about that one.
Coach Lynn out here doing the good work, giving me some sub
stack. Would you take Higgins or
Addison? Oh man, it's like Coach Lynn
knows exactly the way he is. Like man.

(50:51):
Why don't we bring up Emmanuel Sanders while we're talking?
About it too. I would take Higgins over
Addison and it would probably would.
I probably would as well. Right now.
Yeah, I probably would as well. I don't think there's a bigger
Jordan Addison doubter on the planet than me.

(51:13):
So yes. So yeah, Drew, we kind of
answered Seattle. I JJ says absolutely not.
I say it's a little trickier because I think JSN again, is,
is a slot receiver. He's incredibly good at playing
slot receiver like Downs is. They're not quite obvious.
Those two aren't quite on the level of an Amaros St.
Brown, right? But I do think like he would

(51:33):
kind of take over that de facto mantle because he's playing on
the boundary in Seattle. That's that's a tricky one.
That's a tricky one. I will say all.
Right. That was fun.
All right, so let's figure out where we're going here.
I I figured out how to drop BradHolmes down to four.

(51:54):
Why is that? And that is some of the asset
misallocation. For example, drafting Jameer
Gibbs with a what was the numberof six overall pick 12 and and,
and and taking Jack Campbell where he did like I'm certainly

(52:16):
he he has had a lot of hits. He could have had more.
And I think that Decosta and Light do a better job of
maximizing the asset positions. Fred Holmes has had a ton of
assets to work with. Props to him and he's done a
good job with most of them. I kind of want to put Light
above Decosta. I think that light has been a

(52:39):
little more aggressive at I'm good with that hatching problems
on his roster than Dacosta has. You know, one big obvious one to
talk about with the Ravens immediately is that they
struggled at a wide receiver foryears.
Now. Wide receiver is finally not
like a humongous problem for them, but there were multiple

(53:01):
years in a row. I remember the the year when
Alan Lazard was going to be our wide receiver, one, that it was
like people couldn't make up their minds who had the worst
wide receiver situation in the league, whether it was the
Packers or the Ravens. And one of the things that was
like frustrating for Ravens fanswas it was like, we've been at

(53:22):
this like bottom or tie for the bottom spot for too many years
to count. Light, I think has just been a
little more aggressive at patching problems on his roster
than the Decosta. But obviously we've got them
both in the top three. I think we have a lot of.
Respect for both, yeah. Yes.
When did Veach start? Veach has been there since 2017.

(53:50):
Cause John Dorsey was there right before Veach.
Yeah. So he may that's right.
Cuz yeah. Fun fact where John Dorsey is
right now, Detroit. Yeah, no coincidence.
They've started having good drafts.
Exactly. Also time that Dorsey got there.

(54:11):
Also Dorsey picked Baker, which again, is he better than Jackson
and Allen? No.
Was it a great pick at the time?Because what we've seen and and
Cleveland just happens to just ruin quarterbacks.
Yes, 100% yeah. So, you know, there was a lot of
talk that they were going to Arnold the week before, and I

(54:32):
remember it coming out that morning that they were pretty
much leaning towards it was going to be Baker.
They went Baker and Denzel Ward in that one.
So yeah, I mean, Dorsey, Is Dorsey a great character off the
field? Absolutely not.
But can that guy run in for an office?
Yes, for sure. Baker is a fantastic quarterback

(54:55):
in Tampa. Yeah, Like he, he certainly had
his slump that like the the Carolina year was just
absolutely atrocious. Yeah.
But I, I think, I think you can firmly pin Baker's struggles on

(55:16):
the crappy teams that he was on when he was struggling.
Like Cleveland was Clevelanding Carolina speaks for itself.
Weren't they ever? Yeah, Weren't they ever?
Yeah. I wouldn't say I I know.
I know what Drew's talking about.
Not a fan of Veitch, which I don't, I don't look, I I don't

(55:39):
just it's some of the Vegas a top ten GM to me.
He he's like a top ten GM to me.But he's like, he frequently
gets tossed around as like the number one GM and that's where I
like. To me, that's crazy town.
Yeah, there have been some pretty, pretty rough drafts.

(55:59):
He's had some awful drafts. 18 and 19 back-to-back are not
good, are not good. Taking the first round.
In 19 they didn't have one. In 19, they did not have a first
round pick. Their 2019 draft was Nicole
Hardman, Juan Thornhill, Colin Saunders, Rashad Fenton, Darwin
Thompson and Nick Oligretti. Like not a hit in the whole lot,

(56:22):
no. And then 2018 Breeland speaks,
Derek Noddy, who's done some decent stuff for them as a
defensive tackle, Dorian O Dan, Daniel, Armani Watts, Treymon
Smith and Khalil Mackenzie. I mean, his his last, his last
like and he went Clyde Edwards alair in the first in 2020.
Clyde Edwards a lair. I think that was his last like

(56:44):
really bad draft. He, he did get sneed in that
draft, Ladarius sneed the 4th, so that kind of helped save it a
little bit. Willie Gay's done all right as
kind of a rotational player now.Nick Bolton, Creed Humphrey,
Trey Smith in 21. Very nice.
You're getting some stuff out ofNoah Gray as a tight end. 2 is
well in that draft, which is which is solid.

(57:07):
And then they go up and get Mcduffie.
Yeah. And, and and obviously they just
paid Trey Smith massive money because they needed to.
Yeah. Through 24, like the the drafts
we've actually got in the seed play.
Yeah, I think that those were. Those are great.
Yeah. 2323 is looking a little shaky right now.

(57:27):
I took in Adike Izama in the first.
I got received rice in the second.
But it's Tamari Connor starting to play more.
So maybe we'll see something outof that.
But. But that was a struggle.
But Mcduffie Carloftis, Brian Cook, Leo Chanel, Joshua
Williams, Jalen Watson, right, those two back-to-back are
corners who have played in the in in the postseason.

(57:47):
Are they great? No, but they're they're depth
pieces who have been playing well.
And then they got Pacheco at theend of that 22 pretty good, 22
pretty good. And and I think 24, you know, if
they'd hung on to Kamal Haddon. Thanks so much.
Kansas City, perhaps we'll see. Could have been interesting.
But Sula Mataya is that one is one that might come back to bite

(58:12):
them in terms of offensive line depth this year.
But I really liked what they didin 25.
I don't know about you, JJ. Well, I I would definitely put
yeah, I I because 20, I guess I I don't think I have a a super
strong opinion on their 25 draftat the moment.

(58:33):
So Josh Simmons, right, Norman Lott, which I think is more
disruptor than like, true, like technician playing defensive
tackle. Ashton Gelati could be really
fun. Again, kind of in the Carlaftus
mold, right? The powerful, more physical, not
bendy edge rusher. Noel Williams, they land, right?
And I think Richard Smith might be real interesting for them as

(58:56):
seventh round pick who's played running back and wide receiver.
So I mean, like, is it the best 1 of this 185 to me?
Royals, but Royals as well. Yeah, yeah, Nolan Rollers
back-to-back like they're they're picks that we certainly
like. It's just it's just kind of way
too early to know. Yeah, it's too early to know not
necessarily, but I I liked it. But like there's there's a a

(59:18):
decent number of high value picks in that draft.
You know, you got left tackle, defensive tackle, defensive end,
corner, wide receiver, 1st 5 andthat's that's through your first
four rounds. It's pretty good.
So I think if you hit on like two of those, the class is going
to look pretty good. And if one's like a rotational

(59:39):
player who has, you know, provides some help when need be,
that will also help them. So here here's a question I have
for you. So first of all, would would you
put Goody ahead of Brett Beach? Boy, I, I, I think so.

(01:00:11):
I think it's close. Also Kansas City, by the way, I
know we're talking about the draft only.
I do look that they went out andlike after the Tampa Bay Super
Bowl and went, OK, this old linelike this isn't happening again.
We're not, we're not doing this right, at least for a two to
three-year window. We're not doing this again.
And they went and got it kind offixed and and what's up?

(01:00:32):
Like we all saw heading into that season that their offensive
line was going to be horrible. And then the Chiefs were doing
like the surprise Pikachu face that their offensive line
happened to be horrible. And like Mahomes picked up some
bad habits throughout that season because of how bad his
offensive line was. But he was playing like crap at

(01:00:54):
the end of that season. I couldn't believe they made it
to the Super Bowl. I heavily picked against them in
that Super Bowl and went like when they got their doors blown
out by Tampa Bay. It was the least shocking thing
I'd ever seen. And then, like, credit to
Mahomes and credit to Veitch forboth fixing the issues in front

(01:01:16):
of them. The next year, Mahomes cleaned
up his problems dramatically andalso Veitch gave him a new
offensive line. Yeah.
So, you know, props to them fromfor learning from the
experience, but it was kind of awasted year since we could all
see from the beginning like there was no shot they were
going to succeed with that offensive line.

(01:01:39):
I I would also put goody, I willsay there are GMs. There are GMs
who would barely, barely do anything.
And you know it. There are GMs who would go.
We can make one move, maybe spice it up a little.
Maybe one move will help us. Instead Vince goes, no thank
you. Give me Orlando Brown, give me

(01:01:59):
Creed Humphrey, give me Trey Smith.
We're not messing around. This is going to be way better
and the floor shot up a mile. That is it's it's hard to do.
It's hard to turn it around veryquickly.
So I I I going to give him some credit there because I I do
think for other franchises wherethat O line was, as you said, JJ

(01:02:20):
feel like it would have taken considerable, you know,
considerably more time to get that thing back on track 100%.
So so I do like the aggression there.
So I do think beach certainly belongs in the thick of things 4
to 10 again, I'm probably going to be that guy who goes to bat

(01:02:44):
for the Rams. You're putting less, need you.
You put less. Seemed ahead of Goody.
No, no, no, I'm just saying in the four to 10.
In the four to 10, yes. I'm saying I would put them in
the four to 10. Let's let's let's figure out who
else we put ahead of Sneed before we put him on the board.
I guess I wouldn't be shocked ifhe ends up at, you know, in that

(01:03:05):
four to 10 tier. Yeah.
Who would you put in between Brad Holmes and Brian Goodkinst?
I I think I would put Kasario inthere.
I personally wouldn't, but I think he can go in the four to
10. We'll put him in.
Would you put him ahead or behind of each?

(01:03:26):
Behind probably behind each. OK yeah.
Who who would you? Who would you put in between
Holmes and Good against? I don't think I would.
Anybody you put you would put Goody at at #5 overall, I think
so. I think that's where yeah,

(01:03:49):
'cause there's a couple guys whomay be able to I think I have a
chance to go crack the top five,but I there's not enough there's
not enough years under their belt yet to get there and guys
who can I can I guess who you might be thinking for sure,
let's do it Adam Peters for the commanders yes, 100% All right,

(01:04:14):
so I'm, I'm putting him high as well.
I'm he's he's probably not goingto stay right here, but I'm just
going to put him right here. Yeah, he's kind of that.
I'm just going to put him right here.
He's probably going to have to get bumped down as we add more
names on here, but I'm pretty darn high on Adam Peters right
now. Again, not not a big sample
size. Is there another name, another

(01:04:38):
young name that you're thinking about?
I was going to put Ortiz in there just as a thought for the
Chargers, right going Ultima Conkey is again, I we, we, I, I
talked about it when I was live last year.
That's about as good as you can do.
Is it for somebody who was like,I would love for them to grab
neighbors for Justin Herbert. It's like, no thanks.
We'll grab the more important position and then somehow get

(01:04:59):
everyone else to go. Let me take worthy Legette
Pearsall and Coleman and Polk all in front of Ladd.
Unbelievable. Well, here's don't know how
anybody else let that happen, but I I do.
And they went and said, OK, is this Philly thing?
Can this work for us with McKay Beckton?

(01:05:19):
They're like, all right, can we make this, you know, another
year over year type of thing, which I think is a a a solid bet
for them as far as like, yeah, Philly just kind of pushed
people around with big bodies. They've got Slater and Alt in
the building no problem with a swing like that.
Now, this draft was a little weird.
Can I say two things about the previous draft, though?

(01:05:41):
First, for sure. So one is, I want to ask you how
much do you think the alt the Joelt selection was was Hortis
versus? Harbaugh.

(01:06:01):
Truthfully, I think it was probably a probably a 6040,
maybe a lean a little more Harbaugh.
But I do think like I do think Ortiz, who was again, Harbaugh
brings in Roman, right? Ortiz was in the building with
the Costa when Roman was there as well.
They know they got to get bodiesupfront, right?

(01:06:22):
They're they're well aware of that.
No, this is not receiver room rankings, Wharton says.
I'm sorry, not trying to be overly disrespectful, but do
y'all really think Packers wide receiver room is top five?
This is, we are ranking general managers, general managers, not
wide receivers. No, no, no, no, no, no.

(01:06:44):
And we're, we're like about 1/3 of the way through this.
So there's some, there's some names still on the board who
might go higher or lower than some names who are already on
here. So, but you know, we're, we're
not putting the what? Packers wide receiver?
No, no, no. Could not do that.
Got to bring this up from Coach Lane because we already put
Barry on the board here. But Brown's drafting Hall and

(01:07:04):
then drafting Judkins and back-to-back drafts.
Crazy. Who's their head scout?
Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's Andrew
Barry is atrocious at everythinghe does.
Like, just chalk it up on the board.
It's just another horrific decision by Andrew Barry.
He's just the worst. It's tough when like, you know,
everybody's looking. It's tough when you go like

(01:07:27):
this, right? You, you, you know, everybody
goes, wow, look what the Browns got from Jacksonville to go from
5:00 to 2:00. Should Jacksonville really have
done that? Wow, that's a big win for the
Browns. And then you remember who traded
back and it's the Browns and yougo, well, I mean, are they
really going to be able to, to Max out the value from that?
Do you really think so? Do you really?

(01:07:50):
Andrew Barry makes a trillion trades.
If you ever go look at put up onPro Football Reference and look
at the trades that the rounds make, they make trades just all
the time because he's bored. He just makes.
He just makes trades just to make trades.
I'll get that back. Get that bad and brain, I'm

(01:08:11):
going to do a fifth round tick swap with this team and we're
also going to do a six round pick swap with that team too
just to see what happens. That's just the kind of crap he
does. Yeah, like he's there is no
method to his madness. He's just bored and trades are
fun to him. That's all it is so.
Let's let. Couple quick things.

(01:08:37):
Boy. You talk about the receiver
picks that he's made. It is it is rough.
Cedric Tillman is is easily the best pick he's made at receiver.
TBD on on thrash from 24 but he didn't really play.
But boy, 2020 goes wills over worse.

(01:09:03):
That'll set you back again. Delpit and Jordan Elliott and
Nick Harris were kind of rotation guys.
People's Jones like this is not great, you know, comes back
Newsome and and J OK in 21. That's a great start.

(01:09:25):
I found the post I found and then and then Anthony Schwartz
in the third. Mind you, who was still
available? JJ, do you know?
In what year was it 22 in the third round, 2021, yeah.
One in the third round. 20/21 hedecides, he decides.
Oh, you know what? I really like this Anthony

(01:09:48):
Schwartz fella because he's fast.
I mean, I mean, Robin St. Brown was still there.
He certainly was, yes. So there you go.
I'm double checking to make sureI'm wrong about this, but also
it might be true. I I tweeted this a little over a
year ago so I'm sure he's done. Sorry Collins.

(01:10:09):
Collins was 2 picks before, but funny enough, I believe Collins
was one of the picks that Cleveland gave to Houston.
Potentially. I'll have to.
I'll have to dig up that one if if Collins is a pick that's come
from that. Holy cow.

(01:10:34):
Maybe, maybe not. Yeah.
Collins 2021. So.
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
So here's here. Here's what I put together.
This is so this was from 2020 through 2024 through March 2024.
OK, so he I'm sure he's done a ton of trades since this.
Here's all the players he's traded away or the players who
were drafted with the picks thathe traded away. 2020 trade away

(01:10:56):
Marquis Spencer, Jonathan Taylor, Zac Bond, Nate Stanley
and Garrett Wallow for Andy Janovich, Grant Delpit, Nick
Harris, Jordan Elliott and Anthony Schwartz and Ronnie
Harrison. 2021 traded away Terrace Marshall, Nico Collins,
Derek Barnes, Jamar Jefferson and Damian Pierce for J OK, Tony

(01:11:19):
Fields and part of the future isShawn Watson trade. 2022 traded
away Devin Harper, Matt Will. Let's go.
Mac Wilson, Jordan Davis, JameerGibbs, Jaylen Hyatt, Case
Keenan, John Metchi, Akayla Bevans, Troy Hill, Baker
Mayfield. Their 2024 sixth round pick and
2024 first round pick. I don't remember who ended up
getting selected with those two picks for.

(01:11:41):
Deshaun Watson, Amari Cooper, Michael Woods, Chase Windovich,
Martin, Emerson Perry on Winfrey, Kate York, Jerome Ford,
Isaiah McGuire, Dorian Thompson,Robinson, the worst quarterback
the Browns have ever had, Deion Jones, a conditional 2024 fifth
round pick and 2/20/24 seventh round picks.
Again, we could go look up who got selected with those picks.

(01:12:02):
2023 trade, trade away. Luke Musgrave, Andrew Voorhees,
Josh Dobbs, Tyrone Wheatley, Donovan Peebles Jones and a 2025
seventh for Elijah Moore, CedricTillman, Pierre Strong, Dustin
Hopkins, a 24624 fifth and 25 sixth.
And then in 24, at the time I tweeted this, he traded kind of
a nothing fix for Jerry Judy. Yeah, this is my point.

(01:12:24):
He just does a bajillion trades like 23 didn't for nothing.
Like again, if Tillman, if Tillman shows up as like a like
an OK X receiver, like, then you've got something.
Otherwise it was kind of just literally just doing stuff, not
doing stuff just kind of yeah, like, no, no 22.

(01:12:45):
So these these are the players he went and acquired.
I think. Like what what are we supposed
to be excited about any of these?
Perry and Winfrey? So 2024, right.
So that 2024 first that would have been that would have been
used, would that have been used and given to Arizona to go get

(01:13:09):
Will Anderson, is that right? That has to be right.
That has to be correct. Cleveland Browns trades, that
2024 first had to have been usedto go get Will Anderson.
So he did that in 20, 2323, theywent up to go get Anderson.

(01:13:33):
They gave up a first the following year.
I think Arizona had two firsts in 24, right, because they used
them for Harrison and they used the used it on Darius Robinson.
The 20 right, 24 first round pick for Houston I think would

(01:13:54):
have been traded to Arizona. Ryan Thomas.
Brian Thomas. Ryan Thomas, Yeah.
OK, so so that traded to the Jags for and and you still
select Brian Thomas so we could add that to the list.
Wait, wait, that doesn't wait. What did Arizona move back so

(01:14:14):
Jacksonville could go get Thomas?
I'm so confused because Houston didn't have the 2024 first
because they traded it to Arizona in 23 to go get Will
Anderson. I'm almost positive.
Of this. So that I'm, I'm almost positive

(01:14:39):
that's right because that because Arizona got a massive
return for that. Now, maybe Arizona went back up,
but I don't think they gave it up to go get Paris Johnson from
Detroit. I think they gave up seconds
that they got from the Texans todo that.

(01:15:02):
OK, But then hang on this. So this trade, see, we're
looking at the wrong, we're supposed to look at Texans
trades. Yeah, because this, that 2024
first was part of the Watson trade.
So it would have been Cleveland's pick that went to

(01:15:22):
Houston. Texans traded this the Brian
Thomas pick to the Vikings. What?
They traded, oh wait a minute and a 7th to the Vikings for a
second round pick, the 6th and asecond the following year.

(01:15:48):
So then that. So now we got to go look at
Vikings trades. Well, the Vikings would have had
then the bike. So this was part of the this was
part of the Dallas Turner. Yeah.
They gave up the Brian Thomas pick to go get Dallas Turner.

(01:16:11):
So they moved up five picks from23 to 17 to get Dallas Turner.
I mean. Kind of, no?
Question Brian Thomas has given more value so far than Dallas
Turner. Cleveland.
Yeah, Drew says #12 from Cleveland to Houston to Arizona

(01:16:33):
to Detroit. Yeah, that So that was, that was
the yeah. Who do they pick with that one?
Yeah. So, OK, so 2023 first round pick
would have where's the word? Where's this is?

(01:16:57):
Hang on, let me go to 23. I want to see the Will Anderson.
Pick. They traded number six overall.
Yeah. Here we go to the Cardinals.
Yeah, OK, I've got it. 12 overall.
So this is Jameer Gibbs. Yes.
So what happened with the JameerGibbs?
12th overall pick is traded. First and third round

(01:17:19):
selections, 2022 first and fourth round into 2024.
First and fourth round to Houston in exchange for 2024 six
and Watson. That 12th pick was Cleveland's
that went to Houston in the Watson trade.
That then Houston used to go up to three to get Will Anderson
from Arizona and then Arizona from 12.

(01:17:39):
That pick went up to six to get Paris Johnson.
And then that 12th pick ended upbeing Jameer Gibbs.
Yeah. So Houston did use that pick,
the 2023 first. I think they gave up that pick
though right in 24 to to go do that, which then I think turned

(01:18:04):
into Arizona or Houston did to Arizona to Minnesota to
Jacksonville. As you said in some Dallas
Turner there. There's a lot going on here.
Point being these are got a lot from Cleveland for that Deshawn
trade and Cassario comes out huge in that regard.
So I think Joe Shone is like theonly or Joe Shane or Shone.

(01:18:25):
How do you say it's Shane, Joe Shane, Joe Shane got 2.
I think he's the only GM you could make a case for being
worse than Andrew Berry. Now Ryan Poles is in the mix.
Mickey Lumas is in the picks, isin the did Ryan Poles actually
make the selections this past draft?
Many are asking did Ben Johnson actually make them?

(01:18:46):
I think, I think which is what it is also my concern about
Elliott Wolf as well in New England because 2024 they did
take May, but then it got ugly and the offensive line was not

(01:19:09):
was not was no bueno, very bad where So are are where are you
saying you want to put Elliott Wolf then?
No, I'm just saying it's 18 to 23 range.
I don't think that he's as bad as some of the guys on the side.
I think he's a solid 11 and 17 guy.
I don't. My problem is how much of this
past draft was actually him? Yeah, that's my concern.

(01:19:30):
Vrabel comes in, they draft 2 offensive line and they go get
Campbell and Jared Wilson. Then they get then they get
Henderson and they get Kyle Williams.
Those are their first four picks.
Like, hey, this this offense is bad.
We're not doing this anymore. So I'm wondering if Vrabel and
Ben Johnson helps kind of steer the ships for Poles and for
Poles and Wolf a little bit here.

(01:19:51):
It's it's it's probably, it's probably not nothing.
Yeah, probably at least a littlenudge, but a little certainly
New England a lot better. OK.
So 4 to 10 done it looks like with the Rams in there?
Gosh, we're almost an hour and ahalf in and we we are well, no,
this, this would be 4 through 11right here. 456-7890.

(01:20:14):
No, I guess I can't count. That's four.
That's four through 10. OK, but I'm I'm want Schneider
in there. Is that why?
No, I want I want quasi and Brandon being placed before
because I Brandon, I don't thinkI can put Brandon Bean behind
less need. I just can't do it and I don't

(01:20:36):
think I can. I definitely can.
I just feel like a you want you want bean behind Sneed.
I just don't like Sneed that. Much.
I just don't think he's. Boy, these.
Bean drafts some of these are and he's.
Yeah, The problem is with Bean is some is these early picks are

(01:21:01):
rough. They are rough.
Like Rousseau is the one right now where you go, OK, he's
starting to figure things out. Kyer Elam, woof Dome.
Kincaid not looking good, folks.He moved out of round one to

(01:21:23):
draft Coleman. We'll see on that.
I was not a big fan of that. I was not a big fan of that.
The Kyer Elam draft, do not forget they went running back
linebacker after that. Now, again, some of the payouts,
some of the payouts have been big, right?
When you look at 21 with Russo and Spencer Brown, that's a

(01:21:46):
pretty decent payoff. One, I just feel like I just
yeah, they went and got Von Miller.
That was aggressive. That was a lot of money.
Drew makes a point. He said Bean doesn't actually
solve problems. They're the same problems.
That's my worry yeah. I don't feel like receiver is

(01:22:06):
usually solved. I think they got great value,
which can solve running back after like 5 years.
Yeah, it took that's and see that's where it's like Veach in
one offseason said this old linething.
No, no, we're not. We're not doing this.
Whereas Bean, I feel like is doing a little bit of what
people don't like what Goody andThompson often did, which was

(01:22:30):
kind of like playing it too far out into the future.
But like I don't feel like he's doing enough in the immediate
that Goody does. I, I, I think with that's my
only kind of weird area that would point to like having
perennial problems at is defensive tackle.

(01:22:50):
And we know why that is. It's because he thinks Kenny
Clark is great. Yes, but he thinks, he thinks
that it's still Chris Jones 1A, Kenny Clark 1B, which is was the
case in like 20-19. And that's how he views Kenny
Clark today. We know that for a fact that
that's how he views Kenny Clark.Yeah.
And if you do view it through that lens, then his defensive

(01:23:13):
tackle strategy kind of makes a little more sense.
Cuz you're like, Oh yeah. So Devonte Wyatt is like a high
end D2 and really kind of got 2D2 DT ones.
And so, yeah, I can see why he'snot making additions there.
Like, we just vehemently disagree with that assessment of
Kenny Clark. Yeah.
But like, you look at any other position on the roster where

(01:23:34):
there's like, problems for one or two years, he gets really
aggressive safety. It took a year longer than we
thought, but they went wide receiver.
Yeah, You know, and and like he will absolutely let problems
fester for like a year. So like, hey, you know, in year
1, like we're looking, we're saying the guys we have in this

(01:23:57):
room are not great. And then, you know, offseason we
lose one of those guys and we'relike, wow, this room is
terrible. He goes through the whole season
with that atrocious room. He did it with linebacker.
He did it with safety. He did it with tight end and
then, you know, then he like triples down and spends a
boatload of capital both in freeagency and a draft and fixes

(01:24:18):
that position in like 1 offseason.
Now I would argue like wide receiver is maybe the biggest
egregious example of like letting it fester for a while
and then having to address it multiple times.
Like there's been three years now where he has had to spend
multiple high draft picks, 2223 and 25.

(01:24:42):
He had to spend multiple day 1-2and like fourth round picks at
trying to fix that room. And we still don't know if it
was 247 the guard. I was saying 257 right with

(01:25:02):
Dubose 257 and then 1/3 so 24725713 and that 247 was a
trade up also with Minnesota. So tech 2 twos go get well, it
was if he tried, he was trying to trade in the first round.
He was yes. Now I do think 2025 the being

(01:25:24):
proactive, understanding what's about to happen in the receiver
room. I, I understand that process.
I do, I, I, well, I think it's two things.
I think it is proactive, understanding the contract
situation is coming up. Also, the wide receivers last
year were not good enough. They were the problem with the
offense that the offensive line was bad, the quarterback was

(01:25:45):
hurt and the wide receivers werenot good enough.
Now I I think that our pass gamecoordinator, Jason Vrabel should
have his feet held to the fire and be made to answer for why
none of his receivers can catch the freaking ball.
Yeah. Great, I'm glad they can all get
open. I'm glad that there's, you know,

(01:26:06):
none of these guys could are getting locked up, but the ball
is hitting their hands and then hitting the ground.
All right, I'm sorry, Jason Vrabel, your job is to make sure
that that doesn't happen. So hey, maybe Jason Vrabel is
talking to Lafleur and Guti and says I just need some more
bodies. He'll get me a first round round
wide receiver. Maybe that's what happened.
I am fine with that being the answer, but that means that like

(01:26:29):
in Week 2 of this year, I can't still be seeing 6 drop passes in
the game or I'm firing Jason Vrabel if I have the power to do
so. Yeah, one more quick thing on
Bean, I do feel like this past year, right, they go corner
DTDNDT to start, feels like the first time that they've hammered

(01:26:56):
the, the positions with the mostsurplus value since probably 21.
And then before that they they also, they kind of they, they
mix and match a little, which again, it, it isn't necessarily
the worst thing of like, OK, they're not doing like, you know

(01:27:17):
what kind of what Holmes did, even though it's worked out with
running back, linebacker, tight end, safety, right?
They don't do any of that. But it does seem like the the
offensive line investment he gotDawkins, which I thought was
tremendous back then, really good.
Wish he hung on to tell her. I'm sure that that haunts him.
But I do feel like again, Ford, Spencer Brown has worked Osiris

(01:27:42):
Torrance, we'll see Senator FranPrint.
They're kind of like I think he's kind of like hoping that he
can continue to do what good he's doing.
They're kind of see this similarstuff like he's hoping that this
day three stuff at a line can continue to to work out for
them, which is just just concerns me a little.

(01:28:02):
And then again, the corner thing, right.
So they're doing, you know, safeties.
He is Bina spent a lot of a lot of picks at running back, lot of
picks at running back, bad running backs like Zach Moss
third round, Devin Singletary, third round, James Cook second
round. I didn't like a single day this

(01:28:23):
fourth round. I did like a single one of these
guys as draft pass. What's with all this investment
in running back? Well, their running game was
atrocious. Josh Hans was the only running
running threat they had and all those running backs were
atrocious. Just terrible.
Now, like Singletary went to theTexans and like, stepped his
game up a bit. He got better after he left

(01:28:45):
Buffalo. You know, he still is not like
amazing, but he was horrific with the Bills.
It feels like, it feels like Bean is, is good at getting role
players. Like it feels like he's good at
getting role players in the building who can play.
Just feels like he's not like I,I just feel like he's not

(01:29:09):
putting his foot on the gas likesome of these other guys in the
four to 10, you know what I mean?
I feel like he's just not the pedals, not all the way down
sometimes for him. And that's I think my biggest
thing. And, and, and again, maybe this
year, right, they go quarterback, defensive tackle,
defensive and defensive tackle perfect.

(01:29:30):
No notes. They add a second corner.
They swung again at a line, which I, I think you should be
doing every year. So he is swinging at a line.
I just feel like investments could be potentially a little
higher now a tackle I think is set for them.
Just a question of what, you know, how everything else is
going to shake. I did go get Morse, which is a a
big move, which he needed to do.But I do think like, can the D

(01:29:53):
line? I just feel like there's a lot
of bodies being thrown at it. When's the superstar coming, You
know, so that you don't have to go shell all that money out for
Von Miller when he's past 30, right?
Like, you know, I mean, I think you even could make a case that
they probably should have tried to keep Harrison Phillips.
Yeah, I yeah, I would agree, yes.

(01:30:17):
So we've got we've got 7 guys left to put on here so we can
talk about anything you want to anything you want to highlight
in this 11 to 17 while we're yeah, I'm I have put quasi kind
of high up in here. I my big problem with him and
the reason why I'm tempted to drop him is the trades.

(01:30:38):
He is absolutely getting cooked in these draft day trades.
They're absolutely just awful. Way overpaying for JJ McCarthy
and Dallas Turner. And I forget I forget who he
moved for this year, but like hehas not learned his lesson.
Oh, did he move up in a later round?

(01:31:01):
Well, he he also, he has hardly any picks.
Like he is being all analytical except for, you know,
considering the value of these picks and the fact that all the
data clearly indicates that having more picks is better and
he keeps throwing away surplus value by moving up.

(01:31:22):
So so you know, right now I havequasi sitting here at 11 and
that probably is too rich with how much value he's lost in
these trades. But I also just don't know, you
know, this 11 through 17 tier iskind of purgatory because none
of these guys are bad enough to really warrant firing them, but

(01:31:47):
they're also none of them are doing a good enough job.
This is like the flashes of brilliance tier, but they all
have these like fatal flaws. Like I said, his name 3 minutes
ago. The heck is the Colts GM's name?
Ballard. Like he has done an appallingly

(01:32:09):
horrific job of of supplying histeam with a quarterback post
Andrew Luck. Andrew Luck?
He retired six years ago. Six years ago or seven years ago
in 2019, right? 2019 offseason.
So is that seven years ago? And they had they have not had
an acceptable quarterback since then.

(01:32:30):
Like the best quarterback they've had that time was what,
Andy Dalton, probably Rivers or or no, I mean Carson Wentz,
Carson Wentz and like Carsten Wentz was horrific.
Probably Rivers, Ginger Goff, where they went on their like 10
and seven run to the postseason.It's been appalling.
He can put together a decent roster aside from quarterback,

(01:32:52):
but like, aside from drafting Anthony Richardson number four
overall, he hasn't even allocated any assets toward
trying to find a quarterback. Oh, I'm going to go, you know,
pay 2,000,000 bucks for a quarterback, starting
quarterback from this year. Like, come on, man.
And I think that this offseason for Omar Khan has been

(01:33:16):
absolutely baffling. I, I don't understand what the
thinking was the entire time at quarterback.
I think that he was prepared to sail into the season without a
quarterback. I really think he was.
And then, you know, this freaking trade we talked about 3
and 14 with Jalen Ramsay and andJonnu Ferrumen, Patrick and

(01:33:42):
Jonnu, like, I just, I just don't understand what he's
doing. I think he's done a, a, a, a
better job than some of the guysin this 11 to 17 range.
I'm not really sure exactly where I want to put him.
I think I I think I can put him ahead of Chris.
I think, I think so. My my one, but not much above
them. They're they're kind of the same

(01:34:03):
guy. Is Sean Payton the GM though, in
Denver? I mean, you know, it's it's it's
it's GM Payton, All right, That's what you need to know.
GM Payton. Sure.
GM Payton combined just not verygood.
Sure. Like Payton clearly belongs the

(01:34:24):
the Peyton, the Peyton monster combined clearly, I think
belongs in 1823. Do you disagree with that?
I don't know. Like, did you put him ahead of
Jerry Jones? No, no, I'm only looking at the
last two on your tear above. That's all.
Yeah, that's all. The only two I'm focused on for,
for, for GM Peyton as we like to.

(01:34:46):
Here's the thing. That's my only thing.
GM Peyton is very clearly capable of putting together a
roster that is going to be just an absolute Bob and Peter and
Ballard and Khan build solid rosters that can kind of take it
to you anywhere on the field, except for they never have a

(01:35:09):
quarterback with either one of those teams.
Right. Start.
When did Peyton start? 21 or 22?
But Peyton got his pants pulled down in that Russell Wilson
trade. That is the problem.
And I'm, I'm sorry, I don't carewhat ESPN says.
Like that trade was never good on paper because Russell Wilson

(01:35:31):
fell off in Seattle. He did not go to Denver and
become bad. He was bad his last year in
Seattle before Peyton made the trade.
I'm fine with putting Peyton ahead of everybody else that we
have left and putting him at 18.Yeah, I just struggled to bump
him ahead of anybody in 11 through 17.

(01:35:54):
OK. And I don't really know where to
put quasi. I kind of think it's like right
here maybe. Yeah, I'm.
I buy that 15 buy that. Who would you rank higher, Jerry
Jones or Brandon Bean? Oh, JJ or BB?
OK, Bean. Yeah.

(01:36:15):
So then to me, this like through17 tier feels about correct
again. Yeah, my thing with Peyton
again, the Russell Wilson trade,it is clearly sinking him, Sir
Tan Javonte miners Browning in 21 gets Benito, gets Demari
Mathis, who's been a good role player for them in 22 lands

(01:36:37):
Riley Moss in the third round of23.
Now he you know, he he kind of did it to himself with the lack
of picks, but does get the QB in24.
They've brought in, you know, they they bring in a lot of help
along the offensive line free agency.
Zach Allen was a free agent signing for them secondary.

(01:37:01):
He's in a really good spot with Jade Baron joining the the fold
And I I am of the opinion that RJ Harvey explodes this year.
OK. I need to look back at Ballards,
but we can keep going. We can hash out.
We can always hash out 16 through 18 at another time.

(01:37:26):
Yeah, this gets tricky, doesn't it?
With our last. I think it does.
And I'm the the the tough thing is deciding who's at 19.
Yes, it is. I would agree.
Here's the guys I'm considering.Monty, Monty, Monty.
Just. Do a little bit better.
I'm considering. I'm considering Monty and and

(01:37:53):
Dan Morgan. I think those are the two guys
I'm considering. About you, yeah, I.
I think so you got Tobin last. I think I have Tobin last, I

(01:38:16):
think. I think Tobin for me is going in
here. He's he's the one doing the cut
above, a cut above. I feel like Terry's got maybe
what we do, we go 18 through 20.Maybe we do, we do 19 through 24
and then 25 through 28 because then that feels a little bit
more like where these actual tiers really are because like,

(01:38:41):
like these four are clearly in atier of awful all their own.
I think you kind of need to havethat cut off.
So I got I got Duke Tobin, his last.
He's 24. I think my only reservation is
probably just like Elliott Wolf actually.

(01:39:02):
Like is he doing things there? Was Vrabel literally behind the
complete retool? I mean The thing is we've seen
Elliott Wolf other places beforeas well.
He's not an unknown. Like Dan Morgan is kind of more
of an unknown. This is straight up GM though,

(01:39:25):
because otherwise you could say,I mean, he's a new, but Spytech
would obviously get a ton of cred from Tampa Bay.
The Bengals front office is a very strange thing, right?
The number of scouts they have, for starters, would definitely
tell you why the drafts have been going the way they've been
going. But Drew points out he said

(01:39:47):
Tobin's actually the director ofplayer personnel and he is, he
is just the de facto GM. They don't actually have AGM
listed, which is kind of makes more sense when you consider the
fact that, like, people call theBengals and nobody answers the
phone. Like, like the phone just rings
in an empty office. I think that there is AGM office

(01:40:10):
there with a phone in it and people call the Bengals and
nobody picks up because it's notanybody's office.
And then like, occasionally DukeTobin from his director of
player personnel office will make a call to somebody else and
say, hey, I want to do this. But usually that someone else is
not another GM, it's an agent. Yeah, Terry Fontenot.

(01:40:33):
Oh, man, Yeah. I don't think this is correct as
is. I think this is pretty.
I think this is pretty correct as is.
I think it's pretty good. And I feel like this was the
right way to do it. Yeah.
Build, build the polar, build the ends towards the middle.
Yeah, if you had to pick one of these noobs to Spytech, be the

(01:40:57):
most likely to succeed Spytech, which is a bit of a tough scene
considering where the rest of the division is.
Boy, that that could be gosh, that could you know, everybody
was talking about that division the year they the Russell Wilson
trade and they all these guys, aquarium guys.
It might be. It actually might happen now,

(01:41:19):
like now. It might like be an absolute
Tour de force out there in the AFC.
West. Especially if Spytech and
company are good, Like, my goodness, it will be.
It will be. Give me the popcorn.
If so, 'cause, man. And especially right, Like

(01:41:39):
Spytech's obviously at some point going to be able to pick
the QB if he get, if he gets it right.
Gosh, I, I, I would feel much better about being the Bills in
the East and not having to, to be in that division out West.
Same with Baltimore. Like it feels real good to not

(01:42:01):
have to play those guys, all those teams twice a year like
Kansas City will have to if Spytech is good.
How many scouts do they have in since he says how many?
Yeah, I, I went to bengals.com. Is it 4 or is it 5?
Their website? So if you go to packers.com, let
me just show you, if you go to packers.com and you hit team,

(01:42:22):
there's a little button that says front office.
OK, You can see everybody on there, right?
Yeah. Yeah, they got everybody.
Now let's go over to all the scouts were there.
All the scouts were there. First of all, there's no front
office. Like I'm trying to figure out
like what button would I even click the team home 3 dots
maybe. Now I tried that and the three
dots you got, Let me make sure you can see this.

(01:42:45):
So we have draft free agency. There are uniforms, traditions,
histories, cheerleaders. They have a page for
cheerleaders, mind you, but not for front office.
I mean, heck, they don't want toknow.
They don't want to know cheerleaders roster like this is
going to be this is this is the only thing they actually care
about showing us. This is higher up on their

(01:43:07):
website than front office leaders and coaches.
That's players and coaches. You go to coaches.
It's literally just actual coaches.
There's no scouts listed on here.
They have strength and conditioning coaches.
They got chief of coaching staff.
All right, there's nothing on here.

(01:43:29):
Maybe they're under a roster. Nope.
I mean, it wouldn't make any sense for them to be under a
roster. Hey, by the way, we're on
roster. Hey oh look, unsigned draft
pick, first round pick Shamar Stewart man.
Are there any other teams who can't sign their first round
pick? No, only the Bengals.
I've got it. What page is it on?

(01:43:52):
I just searched Bengals scoutingdepartment.
OK tell us I have it. So I I found front office staff.
There was a link when I searchedit.
There's a lot of operations, vice president, president,
producers, right? All that good stuff.

(01:44:14):
Accounting it it, it is alphabetical, by the way.
It's not like, hey, you know, let's put these into categories.
It's literally alphabetical. So I have to search for, you
have to search for scout and then go down the list.
It comes up six times. So there is scout, scout, scout,

(01:44:39):
scouting research analyst, scouting director, college,
scouting director pro and scout.So it's five.
It's really just 566 if you count the scouting research
analyst, which I don't know if Ido.
It's putting that all together Iguess.
But again, one of the one of them is the scouting director
pro. So are all the scouts also doing

(01:45:00):
college and pro 3? Three scouts.
And then research guy. And then two directors.
So if two directors, a research guy and three scouts, that's all
we got. And you wonder why their roster

(01:45:21):
is crap. You wonder why it's hard for
them outside of picking Burrow, Chase and Higgins to play
football for them. Wild.
They got those three and they'relike, you know, is there better
to can we do more? What do you want us to do?
We have, we have, we have these guys.

(01:45:42):
So let's see biggest, our biggest differences be between
this, this list, yeah, between this list and us.
Bean and Bean and Shanahan are alittle bit lower.
Schneider's only three spots lower.
We have light 8 spots higher, which I think is I would put in
our favor. We have Peters a few spots

(01:46:03):
higher. We have Kassario a few spots
higher, Kwesi's only two spots off.
I think I would have put Kassario one or two spots higher
if it was just me. Yeah, we have Hortis higher.
We have Jerry slightly higher, Peters and Hortis.
I mean, it's a little bit of projection.
In particular for Hortis. I feel like that there's not a

(01:46:26):
ton of I mean like OK Peters, I'm going to give a huge amount
of credit for the Jaden Daniels pick because Jaden Daniels was
not the consensus QB 2. Now he was my QB one, but he was
not the consensus. He was the consensus 3 though,
which I think again, but you have to make the move now it may
turn out and a lot of people thought that he should take

(01:46:48):
Drake May for sure, for sure, including myself.
Honestly, I thought Poles shouldhave taken Jaden Daniels and I
still think that. I think we would have seen a
ruin to Jaden Daniels though, which would have been tough for
all of us. Absolutely.
And that's, and there's the problem folks.
Why are they in the 25 to 28 right there?

(01:47:09):
We say, oh, who's going to ruin QBs?
You're looking at three of them and then you're looking at three
of them and then the other, The 4th one in there was they had
Peyton and Breeze together for 14 years.
So it was already set. They didn't have to do anything
about that, right? They weren't ruining anything
because they already had it in place.

(01:47:30):
Who ruins the QBs if This is why?
If Burrow wasn't so good, Cincinnati will be on that list
too. Burrow is somehow doing the he's
doing literally the impossible. He is.
He is actively pulling the Bengals away somehow from
ruining a quarterback. I don't know how they're, I

(01:47:51):
don't know how he does it. He's that good.
That's that's why he's just thatgood and This is why we have the
Steelers and Colts where we do on this list is because they are
not addressing quarterback. It's that important.
Look, you're down here. We got these bottom dwellers
ruining not only can't fix quarterback, but they also can't
put a roster together. Like the second biggest sin in

(01:48:15):
my book is not throwing enough assets at quarterback, which now
we have in 19 to 24. We have teams that have spent a
lot of capital on quarterback and just can't put together like
a, a roster that is capable of maintaining consistent winning
year over year. And I may say two of those teams

(01:48:40):
have new have relative newbies in the building.
But we are monitoring the situation in Carolina and we are
monitoring the situation in New England because we I, I, I think
they have the QBs now. What now?
What are we going to be able to do it also?
And by the way, I love that. I love that two of the three at

(01:49:01):
the bottom ruin Q BS and the other one gave Daniel Jones $160
million. May I say so?
Atlanta has spent a ton at QB. That's beautiful.
But Atlanta refuses to spend on defense if Penix works.
I think that Terry Fontenot goesup this list though because the

(01:49:21):
rest of his roster is not horrific.
It's just usually quarterback isvery bad for the Falcons.
He has certainly spent a lot of capital on offense up high and
maybe the maybe the Pierce thingworks out trading up 20 spots.
I mean, you look a couple years ago when they had like 8 first

(01:49:42):
round picks on offense, eight former first round picks on
their offense. Yes, all right.
I think we did enough AGM though.
We did a lot. We did almost two hours and I
know that there were some other things we wanted to get to
including head. We thought that was that tier

(01:50:04):
list. Might we might be a while on
that one too. Just maybe maybe I don't have
the I don't have like a list. I know someone threw out a list
earlier this summer where Lafleur was not in the top 10,
which I think a lot of people inthe media ripped to shreds
because he wasn't on there. I think it's very clear that
he's top 10 coach. You know, I think I'm trying,

(01:50:28):
I'm trying to like put my list together in my head.
But we we could do head coach next week.
We could always push that. We could, or we could talk about
Matt Lafleur from a different angle.
And I was going to say we could just make that quick transition
here. You, yes.
And you asked me to put mine together.
Did you? Put yours together and it's
sitting here, yes, beautiful. And I was like I could.

(01:50:51):
Send it to JJ. Or or I could save it.
I love that we can come back. When when when my little message
said scene and then you never responded.
I was like, oh man. I really wanted.
To see his list. I'm just sad that I didn't get
to see it. So the this this just makes me
super happy that we get to we have it.

(01:51:12):
I I get the reveal here. So.
Here's. Here's maybe what we could do.
Yeah. I mean like do we want to do a
tier maker on this? Is this the?
Best way to I don't. Know what the best way to
actually, maybe we just maybe wejust read it.
Maybe we just read it off. You have yours, you could
display yours and then I can read mine off.

(01:51:34):
I do, but then there's no, you know, suspense for the people.
About like what's coming? That's also true.
OK, so the the tweet, so this was it started.
It was Jacob Infante who covers the.
Bears. And he wrote, here's my
confidence in the Bears at each position on a one through 10
scale. And he did not include a head

(01:51:54):
coach on there. And then somebody in the
comments asked him about the head coach.
And so then he went ahead and and rated Ebrafluse.
And give them an. 8 out of 10 for confidence, which whatever.
I mean, you know, how do you rate a head coach who you've
your first time head coach who has never called a game before?
Like it's it's tough, so whatever.

(01:52:16):
But I put my put together my ownlist for the Packers.
I thought about doing one for the Bears.
And just dunking on them. But I.
Said whatever they off it offseason, let's do see the
Packers, Yeah, and it looks like.
Drew still wants us to rank headcoach.
We'll. Do that.
That might be. Fine, we'll do that.

(01:52:37):
So all right, let's let's start with with head coach so.
On a one through 10. Scale your confidence level in.
Matt. Lafleur, I gave an 8 out of 10.
What? What did you give him?
I gave him a nine. OK, so we're we're close.
I'll tell you why I gave him an 8 and then I want.

(01:52:58):
To hear why you gave him a. 9 I gave him an 8 because I just
think that there are way too many examples, examples
occurring every single year where there is an obvious issue
with the team and he waits a very long time to visibly hold

(01:53:20):
people's feet to the fire. Yes.
So, you know, I'm looking at thewide receivers last year as like
the biggest recent example. But I will also point to special
teams being perennially garbage.I mean, genuinely, and who, who
is it? What's the guy's name?

(01:53:41):
What's the guy's name? Who?
Does the. The special teams rankings every
year. Rich Goslin, is that his name?
Rich Goslin, I think. Or Rick Goslin.
Puts together special teams rankings every single year and
he's got a lot of data that goesinto it.
It's fantastic and on in a in a good year for the Packers on

(01:54:02):
special teams, they. Come in at like 26th.
In a bad year, they're not just 32nd, they're 32nd with a huge
gap between them and 31. The Packers in a bad year on
special teams have people mentioning the 2009 Chargers

(01:54:23):
special teams, which if you recall the 2009 Chargers had the
number one offense #1 defense #32 special teams.
And I think didn't they miss theplayoffs?
They missed the playoffs with the number.
One offense and #1. Defense, because there are
special teams, was that bad. So you have when the Packers

(01:54:43):
special teams are good, they come in at like 26.
When they're bad, people talk. About the 2000. 9 Chargers when
they're talking about how bad the Packers special teams are
and this never gets addressed. Now, I'm not talking about
Brandon McManus. I'm not talking about Daniel.
Whelan, I'm talking about like 9to 10 guys.

(01:55:06):
On the. Field.
Who don't know what they're. Doing who are poorly coached and
opposing special teams coordinators.
Are scheming stuff up? Against us on special teams that
high school coaches are messaging me about in the middle

(01:55:26):
of the week and saying, you know, I noticed this is
happening with the Packers and they should be nervous because
XYZ is going to happen. Guess what?
It does happen because opposing teams have special teams
coordinators who watch tape and plan for things against the
Packers and take advantage of them.
Happens all the time. Matt Lafleur just lets the

(01:55:47):
situation fester. There's just there's.
Guys who? He just likes, all right.
Rich Masaccia is 1. Luke Getzi was another.
There's just guys who he just likes them and then he likes not
having to worry. About.
That position group, I think, and Joe Berry, another
situation, K2020. 3K. We end the year we have Matt

(01:56:12):
Lafleur, our offensive minded head coach, calling the defense
because Joe Berry can't do anything completely inept at
that point in his career, has lost the.
Locker room can't. Call it.
And by the way, the defense suddenly gets great simply
because Joe Barry is no longer calling defense.

(01:56:34):
You got situations like this where we can.
See this stuff? Coming a mile off and he takes
forever to impose any kind of consequences and, you know,
implement any kind of standard. So for that reason I.
Have him at. 8 Now I love just about everything else he does.
I think that he's a great dude. I think the these players play
hard for him. I think that he's a one of the

(01:56:57):
best play designers. And play callers.
In the NFL. So like I just ranted hard about
his flaws for sure. Like 3 minutes 4 minutes and I I
only dropped him from A10 down to an 8.
With Super Bowl aspirations starting to I think set in more,
I do think that it is fair to beable to rant about a coach like

(01:57:19):
this who has not made it there yet since he's been hired,
right? And and the one thing I think
keep puts it at a nine for me is.
And and I think keeping it. From a 10 is some of the hires
and some of the keeping guys on you know and and letting things
faster. I do think he still solves

(01:57:40):
problems play design wise. I think he has solved a lot of
problems. Certainly, you know, coming in
and getting wins with Malik Willis is certainly a level of
problem solving that I think most offensive minded and head
coaches in general should aspireto be doing.
Being like, Hey, no, we just have to tweak this.
We're going to do this, this andthis and it's going to look

(01:58:00):
really good. Yes, it was against Indy and
Houston, but again, this NFL teams and and so to be able to
design that to to not give, you know, Malik Willis too much on
the plate and and and, you know,having him look Tennessee there,
there's a there's proof of of, you know, competency from from
his play. I think it's a massive win.

(01:58:22):
I think leading the youngest. Team in the league to the
playoffs. Two years in a row and getting.
A win on top. Of it matters a lot to me as
well. They look dead in the water in
23 halfway through and they found a way to do it.
Now, of course, some of that wasobviously Lafleur, you know,
calling plays defensively right as well.

(01:58:43):
But they found a way that he trusted and believed in the
process. The young guy started to step
up. Jordan started to, you know,
catch fire. And so I think even though the
some of the ceiling swings from Goody haven't panned out.
I still think. Lefleur and the staff that he
puts together has provided some floor for that.

(01:59:04):
I think the half the higher is amassive win in his in his favor
as well. I still can't believe he did it.
I'm I was so excited when he hired halfway because Halfley I
remember in 2020, I was driving down to Kentucky and I remember
looking out the window and just kind of daydreaming about like,
could you, I just I could you imagine if we ever had Jeff

(01:59:27):
Halfley right as our defensive coordinator?
I was I I still pinch myself sometimes that.
Like of. All 32 NFL teams, the Packers
are the one who actually went and got Jeff Haffley, the kind
of obscure defensive coordinatorin college while I had my eyes
on. I still, I still pinch myself,

(01:59:48):
Yeah. And so there's just, I think so
much in his favor now will my confidence potentially.
Go down from a nine to. An 8 and starting to get a
little more concerned if they don't win a playoff game this
year. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
But I do think, like, there's somuch that he's done for Jordan.
And. Even still doing so for Jordan
when Clements, you know, leaves,right.

(02:00:09):
I I think has been has been massive.
Now I do think there there couldbe some better hires.
On the offensive. Side of the ball right in in a
couple key spots that I think would would help.
But again, when you're kind of still running that show on top
of it of like, OK, you know, buddy, just just help the old
line where you've got your experience right.
And, and, and as OC keep your focus there while also still

(02:00:33):
getting to know the other positions.
I will take care of the rest. I I think it's still fine to do
when you have that level of control, right.
If he was a, a, a John a John Harbaugh and we were having
these questions, I think there'dbe more questions because see,
Harbaugh doesn't run the offense, right?
He's not doing that on top of it, right?
He is delegating and, and, and doing a lot of that because he

(02:00:54):
came up as a special teams guy. Now that doesn't mean he doesn't
know ball. I'm just saying like he is still
more of the the CEO tactician, but also gives a little bit of
energy. So Lafleur has, I think an edge
there, but. Yeah, I mean.
It's just it's, it's how many guys would trade him for right
now? I don't know.
I put him on one hand, Andy, if any.

(02:01:15):
Yeah, right, Reid. Probably won.
I mean, like, I know he just wona Super Bowl.
I don't care. I'm not.
I don't. I don't.
Want siriati instead? Personally, no.
Like, maybe, maybe Sean McVeigh.McVeigh certainly will be in
that consideration. It's probably just those two.

(02:01:35):
It's probably just Campbell. But like again, we haven't seen
Campbell now without these coordinators.
I'll be interested to see how that goes.
I still think he's heavily involved in the offense, right?
He played tight end. That would be one that's maybe
more interesting to me. But again, would love to see
more proof of of of concept past.
There's also like the Jim Harbaugh thing too with Dan
Campbell of like great coach butlike Matt Lafleur is 0%

(02:01:59):
embarrassing Dan. Campbell.
Like there is a high degree of like, man, you got to keep
winning because if you're losing, people are going to make
fun of us a lot because you're astick, which they.
Were when they were going. What 312 and one that first
year. For sure, but I, I.
Do love the the motivation and confidence he instills while

(02:02:24):
also I think still having a way better mind than he's given
credit for. I think he's starting to get
more credit for that as a head coach, right.
I know there's that clip going around the Green Bay game,
right? Of makes fantastic hires.
Campbell has made fantastic coaching hires.
You know, all these former players.
I, I love his strategy of bringing these former players as

(02:02:46):
coaches. I think it has worked really
well. Yes, I I have said this about
Matt. Lafleur for a couple of years
now. Because I I have a lot of
critiques of him, I don't have any interest in replacing him,
but I do want him to be better than what he is.

(02:03:07):
I think there is. I think there is some there's.
Some low. Hanging fruit of areas where he
can become a better coach. I still give him an 8 out of 10.
I still would not want anybody else over him.
I mean, if you're telling me we can get, you know, Reed or, or.

(02:03:29):
McVeigh or I. Don't even even Nick Saban got I
would have a conversation. About it for sure, right?
But not interested in firing Lafleur or letting his contract
expire. But that doesn't mean that I
will not publicly call for him to get better.
I want him to do better, for sure.

(02:03:49):
Yeah. Do you want to do you ready to
do QB? Yeah, let's do it.
I I predict this is going. To be the area on the roster
where we have the biggest difference and maybe the only
significant difference. Can I predict what I think your
number was before I go ahead? Sure, I think you.

(02:04:10):
Gave a six for. QB am I right?
Do you? No.
No. OK, what?
What did you give for? QB 8 1/2. 8 1/2 Yep.
All right. I gave a 10.
I have 0 questions about Jordan Love Zero.
I've seen everything that I needto see from him.
I want him to keep improving theway I want Matt Lafleur to keep

(02:04:32):
improving. I don't have a single shred of
doubt in my mind about Jordan Love.
I honestly I have bigger questions.
About. Matt Lafleur's handling of
Jordan Love than I have about Jordan love.
All right, look last year and like I've ran about it so many
times on this podcast, rushing Jordan Love back for that

(02:04:53):
Vikings game, putting him out there behind a an offensive line
that was not doing a good enoughjob when he was clearly.
Injured. And susceptible to greater
injury because he could not protect himself, because he
could not move. That was coaching malpractice.
It's the number one sin that Matt.

(02:05:15):
Lafleur. Has ever.
Committed since being hired by the Green Bay Packers was was
rushing Jordan Love back for that Vikings game and the
subsequent subsequent games. And my.
Question was never like, hey, can Jordan still play enough,
well enough for us to win? And like, look, he played awful
in that Vikings game. Just absolutely horrendous.

(02:05:37):
But he had one leg. You can't throw.
Your legs are as important as your arm for a quarterback.
He had one leg. I I would say that was.
Bar none, the. Biggest sin Matt Lafleur.
Has ever committed. As the head coach of the Green
Bay Packers, I would say certainly just ahead of hiring

(02:06:02):
and continuing to retain for multiple years Joe Berry and not
putting Matt Lafleur on I or Aaron Rodgers on IR in 2022,
that the year we had the broken finger where Jordan played the
Eagles game, like Aaron Rodgers should have gone on IR.

(02:06:24):
So like those are the number twoand three biggest sins that Matt
Lafleur has committed. But rushing Jordan Love back in
2024 when he was not ready and jeopardizing our future number
one. I have 0 questions about Jordan
Love. I'm excited that you put him at
8 1/2. I did not think you were going
to go that high. I I went between 8 1/2 and 9.

(02:06:46):
I appreciate. That although you have that.
High degree of confidence in. Jordan Love.
You are as willing as you are tocritique where he can improve.
I appreciate that. And I, you know, I, I certainly
will critique games or habits, sure, but I just don't have any

(02:07:08):
doubts at all, like. I I think he.
Will win a Super Bowl, I think he will win an MVPI.
Hope so, man. I just don't have I just don't
really don't have any question at all.
Like like he's he's it, man. Yeah, I, I.
Barring it would take an injury,it would take a crazy injury.

(02:07:31):
In my mind. For.
Him not to eventually reach MVP or Hall of Fame MVP Super Bowl
status, you know, third in a row.
I just. I don't think Hall of Fame like
Pro Football Hall of Fame or Packers Hall of Fame mean Pro
Football, No Pro Football Hall of Fame.
OK, Pro Football Hall of Fame. Yeah, I feel, I feel like I I
feel like he's. Going to.

(02:07:51):
Win a Super Bowl. I feel pretty good about that
happening 2020. 3/20/23. He should have won a Super Bowl
that. That.
Buzz thought that we ran into isjust Packers that's just classic
Packers, right, The 49ers Buzz saw we ran into classic it was

(02:08:13):
it yeah, it's very. Classic.
To what happens in the postseason, Green Bay versus
Dallas in the postseason. Oh wow, who's surprised?
Who won that? Right?
And then it's Green Bay, San Francisco and you go, Yep,
that's that's what happens at especially in San Francisco,
right? That's that's what happens.
But yeah, I think I think the stage was set.
He was on. He was.

(02:08:34):
Oh, yeah. I mean, they it's, it's Detroit.
And the Chiefs go into Detroit where you go into Detroit, where
you just. Absolutely.
Put the hammer down. Thanksgiving Day and then, yeah,
Kansas City, who just kind of did the weird that that.
Postseason. Was that weird?

(02:08:54):
Like we're finding ways we're going.
To find some ways and. That's that's what we're going
to do. And that carried over into.
Into this past year, right? I, I do think they could have
gotten it done. That would have been that would
have been perhaps one of the greatest turn around stories
we've ever seen in sport. Week 8 was somber.
It was somber. We were here, three of us were

(02:09:16):
here talking about this like, man, this is bad.
So that Drake may fella, he's kind of good, huh?
Like that was happening at the mid season for the record, for
the. Record right I.
Never wavered. I'm glad.
I'm glad you did it the the the last time that I was with any

(02:09:41):
ounce of doubt about Jordan Lovewas just prior to that 2022
Eagles game where he came in. That's fair.
I like why I saw him in that preseason Eagles game was the
Eagles game and I was I have. I've never.
Wavered since then at any point yeah I think he he when he
rounded into form the the erratic throws diminished the

(02:10:03):
harm's way throws diminished andthe processing was was high
level now the injury maybe Hanford some of.
That. Right, because mind and feet
have to work together a lot at avery quick and so that that can
bring that erratic play back in when that happens now.

(02:10:25):
Yep, I want to make sure that isthe case, even though I I would
lean that direction this year will prove that that is the case
for me. Boy, I need to bring up some
clips of the. Pod I was on pre. 2020 NFL Draft
Because the things I said about love well probably would
probably have been deemed would probably have been deemed

(02:10:45):
outrageous things to say about Jordan love.
I need to go dig those up because I did have him I had him
ahead of Herbert's. I had him ahead of Hertz.
I had him third in that draft class because I.
Was I was all the way. In on the tools there were,
there were only to dread those up.

(02:11:06):
There were only two of the top quarterbacks in that draft class
that I didn't like because I I liked Tua well enough.
I loved Herbert, I loved Jalen Hurts.
I didn't really care for Joe Burrow so much.
I didn't really care for Jordan Love.
And I think. That I think that Cincinnati

(02:11:26):
almost did it. Almost.
Cincinnati has tried to make your thing correct.
They've tried. As we've talked about already.
It's yeah, I I have to dredge that up, but I remember.
I I have the clip right here. On on my computer when love was
picked and my buddy at the time,we knew because we have

(02:11:49):
podcasted a bunch leading up andhe's like, man, this is your
guy, Green Bay picked your guy. And I just, and it was too
stunned to even think about it, to be honest.
So it's like the anti Tom Grassiviral pic.
Well, the anti everybody viral pic, every viral clip, everybody
had a viral clip of like sittingthere and stunned silence.

(02:12:10):
Yeah, I there wasn't, I sat there and stunned silence.
I didn't really know what to say.
That's who I thought the pic wasgoing to be.
I still just sat there in stunned silence.
I remember I I was sitting. I was watching the thing too.
Like Jordan Love's on the phone.Why is Jordan Love on the phone?
Who? Who?
Indian. Indian in the New Orleans.
They moved up. Someone moved up.
As soon as we traded up, you knew it had to be Jordan Love,

(02:12:31):
but I was sitting there. I thought somebody.
Moved up to 27 and was like he was on the phone already and
they just didn't have footage ofwhoever it was on the phone
with. Green May.
That's what I thought was the case.
I was. I don't even remember who was
picked after him, but that it was like, OK, it's the end of
the Aaron Rodgers era. Like we're.

(02:12:52):
Here, I can't believe we're. Here now, I mean, obviously
three more years happened after that, but still I was I was just
sitting there. I was like, I can't believe like
the clock has officially startedto tick on the end of the Aaron
Rodgers Green Bay, which was just wild.
So I think and then after the after that pick.
I went. Back and I rewatched every.
Single game, which Jordan loves,that I could find tape of and

(02:13:16):
came away feeling a lot better because you know what a lot of
people said was he was drafted in 2020.
So a lot of people said, well, you know, his eight, his 20. 18
tape is. Really good.
His 2019 tape is really crap, erratic.
And I, I came away from it and Isaid I, I disagree about the

(02:13:37):
ranking of those two seasons. His stat line was much worse in.
2019 but I thought that the level of play.
From him. Was a lot more encouraging in
2019 because the 2018 stuff was a lot more of making good on
what was available. And 2019, I thought was a little

(02:14:00):
more fundamentally sound and creating opportunities that
weren't really there. And, you know, the, the biggest
problems that I had with him were #1 you know, he's playing a
lot of hero ball in losing games.
Like who did they play that? It was LSU.
They played LSU in 2019, I think.
And I don't remember how many interceptions he had in that
game, but it was like he was. There was one in that game that

(02:14:20):
was bad. And the other two were like,
man, we got to do something. Also, I think Stingley made an
unbelievable play on one of themas well.
Yeah, like I I think one of themwas like a a really nice throw
deep down the field that Stingley just said no, I'm I'm
him type of play, right. I thought the LSU game was
actually pretty good relative toconsensus.

(02:14:42):
I don't think it was as good as 2018 Michigan State, but I think
it was just love. Well, the Michigan State game
was the one that everybody that one was like that one was like,
hey, like this is 2018 Michigan State game was like watching him
down the stretch in 23. It was like, my gosh, what are
we Coach Lynn Cloud nine. Yeah, he did a new coach, new

(02:15:04):
coaching staff and like almost completely new offensive players
around him as well. Yeah, because he old man who was
the guy who left in 18 that was a 19 pick at receiver.
We've we've. Hung on this a while but.

(02:15:25):
I got a. I got to find this Darwin
Thompson. Has running back.
He was a running back. Yes, and that I think the Chiefs
picked him. I see.
There we go. 2019, Darwin. Thompson, 2017, Devante Mays,

(02:15:48):
both running backs. Yeah, I don't know.
There was something transferred maybe?
I mean there was a. CRC Mariner was his buddy I.
Don't think he got. Drafted, though?
No. Drew says Matt Wells.
Is that who you're thinking of? I don't think so.

(02:16:15):
Oh. Drew says Matt.
Was Jalen? It was Jalen Green.
It was Jalen Green. That's what I was thinking of.
They've had quite a few. Jalen's, why do you see where
you talking? Wait a minute.
Hold on. I'll give you, I'll give.
You Devin Tompkins Devin Tompkins stayed.
Devin Tompkins was. Still there.

(02:16:35):
He's played the entire time. Nobody got drafted out of Utah
State that you're that you're looking.
At so they must have. Transferred and Dax Raymond was
the tight end to actually had a decent year for them.
He left as well. Yes, he was their leading

(02:16:56):
receiver as a tight. End 5 minutes.
He was a He was a Packers. Tight end for 5 minutes.
That's right. Yeah.
What was your rating at running back for the Packers?
Your confidence rating one through 2.
I have it at 8 1/2 as well. I went with 9.
I didn't do any half point ratings.
Oh, OK. I have half minor only round

(02:17:17):
numbers. I think I went with. 9.
And it's it's mostly to do with depth.
I don't know what we have in Marshawn Lloyd.
That's my biggest. So, you know, I like Emmanuel.

(02:17:37):
Yeah, but. But like if you're missing Josh.
Jacobs, you are potentially. In a that's it's not it.
Coach Lynn asks if Brooks makes the team.
I'm gonna say this year he doesn't because of Marshawn
Lloyd. I don't think that would be my
guess, Yeah, 'cause I don't think, I don't think teams are
like gonna be tripping over themselves to go get Brooks.

(02:17:59):
I think Brooks could could. Clear waivers and make.
Our practice squad, but I would guess that having been on the
active roster last year, he's not going to want to stick
around to be on the practice squad this year.

(02:18:20):
I think he would like to go. Somewhere like.
Indy, Indy makes sense to me forChris Brooks, but you know, it's
going to be Emmanuel Wilson or Chris Brooks as running back
three, I think. Yeah, so.
Did you have a different reason why you went 8 1/2 or was it

(02:18:40):
really Again, Jacobs is. The guy.
Right and. And I think if I was a little
more confident behind him, I think it would be obviously
higher difference with QB and head coach, right?
This is a lot more of like a single thing.
And I think as we keep going, itbecomes more about starters plus
depth for a lot of these. Sure.

(02:19:01):
Like, OK, we're we're doing widereceiver next.
And like, yeah, I didn't really consider depth.
I was trying to figure out who Ithought the starters were going
to be. Depth is why it I bet I'm going
to have a couple of positions lower than you perhaps in terms
of the the numbers because of the depth.
What did, what did, what did yougo with for wide receiver?
I have 6 1/2. I want with six.

(02:19:25):
And if I had to round the whole number, I'd probably go down.
And again, this is like. I think that they have.
Enough talent. That it should work, it should
be a really good wide receiver room, but it also should have
been really good last year and it wasn't.
And because of that, I have completely lost all faith in

(02:19:47):
Jason Vrabel and he needs to earn that faith back.
He absolutely can. Now one thing that one thing
that I, I, I think that we have allowed ourselves to do on this
podcast is get a little bit extra down on Jayden.
Reid. Because of all his drops last
year and because there were, youknow, a couple mental errors

(02:20:07):
that he had last year. But but we had one I I was
watching Jordan. Love highlights.
In 2024, a couple days ago and Iwas sitting there with my 2 year
old daughter and she wanted to know who all the players were.
So I, you know, we'd start the play.
I'd say, OK, there's Jordan Love, he's got the football, he

(02:20:27):
throws it. And then I'd say, oh, Jayden
Reid caught it. And so we're like 8 or 9 or 10
highlights into this reel and it's been Jayden Reid for
literally 100% of them. Yeah.
And then we finally got Tucker Craft and I was.
Like this is. Interesting.

(02:20:48):
So then I'm paying attention through the whole thing.
I'm like, wow, most of Jordan's big plays went to Jayden Reid
and it's actually kind of crazy that he had as few yards as he
did. With.
How many explosive plays Jayden Reid had?
Yeah. And I think we let ourselves get
a little bit down on him. Like I I think it like we're.

(02:21:10):
We're clearly. Missing our wide receiver one,
but like Jayden Reid, I think could cement himself as like
rock solid wide receiver 2 that you have 0 concerns about and
you're looking back at me like, yeah, he had that blip year in
his, you know, his sophomore slump.
What are you going to do? Everybody has a sophomore slump,
particularly in Green Bay. I think it's super conceivable.

(02:21:33):
That's how we look back on January.
Yeah, absolutely. I think again, the one thing,
the one thing I, I, I would worry about if he's the wide
receiver 2 and he can't play on the boundary, that would maybe
concern me a little more and, and I think, I think he can't.

(02:21:53):
Play on the boundary. OK, so were.
You saying it was Watson's won in the scenario, Are you saying
Golden's going to be it? OK, because, because.
Again, I think the way that thisthing.
Works really, really well. Is Golden's the guy who can run
everything right? He can do everything he needs to

(02:22:14):
be everything he needs to be. 3 Level. 3 phase.
To be the one right Christian. Watson just isn't isn't quite 3
Level 3 phase. He is.
I just don't see him as a three Phase I I.
Don't think his pre catch stuff is super good.
I think his at the catch. Point stuff has been a lot
better, right? He's just going to be able to.

(02:22:35):
Which receiver are you talking about right now?
I don't think he's going to be good at at right intermediate
stuff, right. That's where Watts and I
struggle like, I guess you can call like those like.
Well, I I still don't developingRossing routes.
Watson in 2025, right, yeah, I'mjust we shouldn't have any
expectations. No, no, I'm assuming if he come,
if they find a way to bring him back and you know, it, it so

(02:22:59):
happens that maybe Dobbs and Wicks are kind of the the, you
know, the guys who might be sitting on the the outside
looking in. In this scenario where it's
like, OK, Watson is stretching the field, making big plays.
Golden's, you know, Golden and Reed are creating a ton on the
intermediate, right, a ton of buckets on the intermediate

(02:23:22):
right. And I think the the way that
Watson kind of you can say wins the intermediate is with kind of
those long developing crossers where he's essentially just
outrunning people, which I thinkis I think that's fine.
When I'm talking intermediate, Iwant digs out on time.
I want comebacks out on time. I want the deep crow routes on
time, right? And and same with the out
pattern, same thing. So I don't think you're going to

(02:23:43):
get that, but I think you can get you kind of that those
again, those kind of routes thattight ends sometimes run when
they're running league plays andall that stuff.
But again, after the catch, we know the speed, right?
He's not the twitchest after thecatch, but he's going to win
after the catch. The speed Reid and golden are
going to be those twitchier players who can do a lot more in
that short area to create. And so I think if you have those

(02:24:05):
3 and you know that all three are kind of going to be kind of
de factos a lot of the spots like in.
Becoming this like. Conglomerate of we can do
everything as a trio, I think you're in phenomenal shape.
And maybe Savion can do that forWatson if Watson's the the odd
man out as well with Dobbs. If they're both gone, then maybe

(02:24:28):
you get that. But I, I do think Watson is the
type of player who you go, man, that year 3 was awesome.
And that is what we want you to be.
Let's come back. Let's see you healthy for 26,
right? And and get you back to where
you you were. And then we'll give you we'll

(02:24:50):
we'll reward that down, down theline, right?
I think that's I think. Right now the best case.
Scenario I want Wix to be the dude right, but but we're we're
holding patterns and Wix he he'sstill he's still a Lotto ticket
for us like yes it is he's he's not our retirement plan, but he
is our Lotto ticket like yeah, if he hits we are we are so next

(02:25:12):
level stratosphere out of here. But he's he's he's not our
planet. I can can we pause?
I think this is a great discussion, but some of the
comments are. From the chat.
Are piling up and I wanted to hit some of these Yeah.
Yeah, let's do it. Four people think that we forgot
about them. Yes.
So we did have new visitor of the channel Derpy entertainment.

(02:25:34):
Coming from a Steelers fan. I think you're better than
Detroit and I think you win the division.
It really depends on your guy's health.
It's really screwed you over thelast couple years.
He went on to say or he or she. When I say the Lions are the
Lions, the Vikings will compete,but they always fold and the
Bears are the Bears, I think forme, like there's just too much

(02:25:57):
unknown about all three of the other teams for me to feel any
kind of confidence about predicting how the division's
going to stack up. Because we've just never seen
Ben Johnson as a head coach. We just we don't know what he's
going to put together. And on paper, he should be good.
And on paper, their roster is not as bad as it has been for a

(02:26:17):
bunch of years. So, you know, if they implode,
it's gonna be another one. Like, of course, typical Bears.
They can't make it work with anything, right?
Yeah. It needs to be like, again, It's
it's the Bears aren't one of those things where the blind
faith comes in, right? The bears are.
Like believing is seeing right? They have to be that right.

(02:26:39):
You get you're not going to do that right.
And that was the case with the. Lions we needed to see like.
Oh, their, their plans coming together.
Oh, they drafted Sewell, they drafted Amineron.
Nice, very cool. OK, they got some wins finally
down the stretch. It's like, all right, now, what
are you going to do? It's like now we we're close to
the playoffs and then boom, we're the NFC championship game
and then boom, we're the one seed.
So like they've made that progression and so that that

(02:27:01):
gave you some faith that they were going to keep doing it.
The Bears just haven't done that.
They haven't done the the thing where it it never felt like
fool's gold. The Trubisky year where the
defense was really good and theyfound a way to not make mistakes
like that was kind of very fool's gold like and it showed
So and and yeah, the unknowns are are very clear.

(02:27:24):
You mentioned Ben Johnson as thehead coach.
How does everything come together with, you know, does
the Doones they take the step? Does does Moore have to carry
the weight because burden and Loveland aren't ready right to
help out right and a Doones theydoesn't ready to take that step.
Do the aging vets that they traded for not work out along
the offensive line? Can they not run certain stuff
because they have a center who'smostly going to help you with

(02:27:46):
zone instead? Like are the young tackles going
to take that step? There's there's a lot of
questions. I think I think it could happen
for them. And then Minnesota's is JD
McCarthy defensively the the Bears don't have enough going
for them defensively and haven'tfor a bunch of years.
Yeah, they might have to outscore people this year.
That's the the Vikings. You're 100%.

(02:28:07):
It's McCarthy. It's JJ McCarthy.
What is he? They have enough along the rest
of their roster. Like on defense they have.
This guy, Dame Bryan Flores, allright, He's their entire
defense. I think I've heard of him.
Yes, that's it. They don't have a single good
player on defense, but it doesn't matter.

(02:28:27):
They're going to have a top. Yeah, it doesn't.
It does. He's going to find a way to have
Dallas Turner get sacks this year and like, it'll be like,
whoa, look at Dallas Turner. It's like, well, Chop Robinson's
probably better in Miami, but Dallas Turner is Bryant Flores,
you know, that type of thing. So I, I do think offensively a
little bit that it's, it's Justin Jefferson and TJ Hawkins

(02:28:48):
and, and that's kind of it Like they really do struggle to run
the ball. I don't think their other
receivers are scare you in the slightest.
They're they're fine for a two and a three, but.
Justin Jefferson I I I. Still think is maybe he's not
the number one wide receiver in the NFL anymore, but he's like
he he's like perennially #2 right?

(02:29:11):
I think humongous Justin Jefferson fan.
But but it comes. Down to yeah.
To JJ McCarthy, they made it. Work with Sam Darnold.
So yeah, in theory, I'm going toneed to see them fail before I
right. That's the other thing.
It's like, well, they've just already done this, assume they
will. I do think the Jordan Mason
trade is not nothing actually did pretty well in San

(02:29:33):
Francisco. I could see them getting a lot
more out of him because I imagine Aaron Jones will have
some sort of soft tissue injury as we get our way into October.
Pretty safe at at at at this point.
They did add, you know, Ryan Kelly will fries.
We'll see if that helps the interior get better so the run
game can maybe maybe get going alittle bit more to help McCarthy

(02:29:54):
out. But that's probably the main
question. And the Lions, right, It's it's
Campbell losing to coordinators.Campbell losing to coordinators.
It's Frank Ragnow gone. Yeah.
What's Hutchinson look like the year back from injury?
What's McNeil look look like when he gets back?
Are the corners gonna step up, you know, opposite DJ Reid,

(02:30:16):
Assuming Reid is still good, right?
Yeah. I mean it there.
There's like, could the operation come?
Tumbling down without. Frank, Ragnar and.
Zeitler I I I need to see their downfall.

(02:30:36):
Before I start believing. In it, it's kind of like the
opposite of where I was with theLions for a long.
Time of. Like for sure, I need to see you
be good before I'm gonna at all believe the hype.
I need need to see the downfall now before I believe that
they're gonna fall because they have overcome a lot of Yeah,
they. Have.
Just had some. BS go their way, all right?

(02:30:59):
I'm looking. Specifically last year when they
lost all of their players on defense and it didn't matter and
they still got it, you know, elite defense.
They blitzed Sam Darnold, which is what you should do to Sam
Darnold. And he just absolutely folds at
the end of the year. Right.
Like, it just. It just folded.
Had played him that way. Yeah.

(02:31:22):
OK. Coach Lynn had some stuff.
About. Reid he said no more end around
or jet sweep stuff for Reid. Let Savion Williams and Nicole
Hardman do that stuff. I mean, frankly, like, I don't
love it in our offense that muchanyways.
Like, I think we could dial it back a little bit.

(02:31:44):
But yeah, put put Savion and Hardman on it, I guess.
You know, I, I, I don't think they have a good plan for
Savion. So whatever, if you want to, if
you want to go do the same thingto him that you did to Watson
and Reid, like whatever, it didn't work with them.
It works for me. I'm fine with it.
Jake doesn't think Savion's evergoing to develop into anything,

(02:32:05):
I don't think. He's anything right now that
needs to be developed. And I don't really believe in
our coaching staff to develop him.
So whatever, you know, if if we can get more out of Reid by not
having him do that stuff. I'm fine with it.
He. He.
Doesn't make sense to do that with anyways.
Hardman, sure, we know like hardjust put hard man was drafted a

(02:32:26):
long time ago. We know what he is.
We know that full time. We're not like there's not going
to be, there's not going to be like you guys don't revelation
Sabian Williams to be a wide receiver anyways.
Because you want him to be Cordero.
Patterson, whatever. I don't believe in you.
All right, So I mean, yeah, Nicole, Nicole, we don't need.
Yeah, he can do that, that stuff.

(02:32:48):
So a lot of a lot of belief in Reed above as well.
So which I think is not unwarranted like.
The reason that we were so. Frustrated with Reed?
The reason we were so frustratedwith Reed is because we know
what he can be, and we know thathis superpower is supposed to be

(02:33:09):
the dependability and reliability.
And that's why it was so frustrating that he was the one
making the stupid mistakes. Like when Tay Wicks makes the
stupid mistakes, you're like, OKwell we kind of know what
Taywick's struggles are when Jane.
Gordon Ramsay meme, I think it'sexactly the Gordon Ramsay meme.
When? Wix makes a mistake.
It's like, oh, no, gorgeous, it's OK, it's OK.

(02:33:32):
And then Reed makes a mistake. He's like you donkey, like what
are you doing? It's that's a great.
I we probably I probably said that already.
We've probably said that was before.
I think we have I think we did. But it that's what it is.
That's how we feel about the two.
And it's like, Oh yeah, because Reed is held to a higher
standard, he was second round pick.
Like that's how it that's how itkind of goes.

(02:33:52):
Whose superpower is supposed to be the reliability?
And consistency. When he's being erratic and
making stupid decisions, it's mind numbingly frustrating
because we're going, we're sitting here going.
You don't have the God tier athleticism of Christian Watson.

(02:34:13):
You don't have the superpower Devante Adams release and route
running of Tay Wix. The only thing you have going
for you is that we don't have toworry about you.
So why are you making us worry about you right now?
That's why we're so mad is because we know you should be

(02:34:34):
the set it and forget it dude. Why is it that Romeo Dobbs is
the set and forget it dude Instead?
Why is it that in 20? 24 Christian Watson.
Was the set and forget it dude yeah we saw that coming and and
I think he'll be fine in year 3.I think he will I I think the
Browns back is extremely hard onhim last year and I think it was

(02:34:58):
deserved because he did play like crap last year and I think
he'll get it figured out. I don't know if.
Wix will get it figured out I. Still believe in Wix, you know,
give me all the shares of Wix, you know, but I my confidence
level, he's going to get it figured out.
It's not there. But so, so let let me let me
pose this to you to to kind of pick up on your thread, your

(02:35:19):
tree of thought from earlier. Matthew Golden one Jaden Reed 2
All right. And then in 2025, we, we agree
we should not have any expectations of Christian
Watson, right. Would we both agree on that?
Yeah. So therefore plan A for wide
receiver 1-2 or three can't be Christian Watson because our

(02:35:39):
plan A is somebody who's not recovering from an ACL tear.
Yeah. So who's who's the three in your
mind then for this year? It's probably going to be.
Dobbs, unless Wicks catches the ball, right.
If Wicks catches the ball, we'rehaving a different conversation.
Golden might take over some deepthreat duties because he's got
some more of the speed that thatthen Wicks or Dobbs, right?

(02:36:01):
And you still have Reed roaming the slot.
And so that's how you kind of separate your roles a little bit
more without Watson. But yeah, I, I, I have to
imagine. Golden and Reed.
Become the go TOS assuming a bounce back and then you have
Dobbs and Wicks and. And Dobbs has been.

(02:36:24):
You know the guy who? Makes the tough grabs.
And we now he's turned to James Jones in Year 3 where it's like,
buddy, just make some simple ones.
I know you're going to make the one that's you're going low on a
35 yard throw against Seattle where it's like, wow, that's
that takes a lot of reaction time and and tracking ability to
go make that play. It's like just just give me some

(02:36:46):
easy buckets because we. Know you're going to be.
Available for them. The concussions are the concern,
right? If he takes another big hit, how
long is he going to be out? Is it going to be a crystal lab
situation? It it could be and and that's
the concern, right? But I do think Dobbs probably
starts that way. You get Dobbs golden read out
there when you're an 11 and our sweet boy Dantavian Wicks

(02:37:09):
hopefully just becomes that guy and we don't have to put all our
faith in someone not getting another concussion, which again,
it's a violent sport. It's it's a tough point.
So can you even imagine my meltdown on this podcast when
Gudi unexpectedly cuts Wicks like, because it's probably gets

(02:37:29):
him to Pittsburgh because they don't have a like, how pissed am
I going to be when that happens?Are you even going to show up to
that? Podcast or are you going to?
Definitely show up with popcorn.Are you going to are you going
to bring popcorn? I actually think I'll be in
between. You know, I I don't want to
avoid it. Are you going to be?
Pissed right alongside me. I I will be upset, certainly,

(02:37:51):
but I also won't avoid it because I want to, to hear you.
I want to know that you are being heard as we sit here
talking about it. And then also I don't want
popcorn because as you said, I will probably also be upset.
So I'm not sure I want any popcorn for that.
And I want to make sure we're both talked off the ledge if

(02:38:14):
this happens, if we need this. Space to do it.
I, I mean, this podcast is my therapy.
I mean, there's like men would rather talk about football than
go therapy. It's just facts.
Unfortunately, that's what it isso and probably more of us
should be in therapy, frankly. Last as well and it.
Doesn't have to be severe stuff,it's just, you know, being

(02:38:38):
emotionally centered and mature.Honestly, I.
Should see intelligence, you know.
To help me process. Some of my grief.
From some Packers playoff exits,I think that.
I think there's a couple 49ers games that I I.
Probably need to talk. To a therapist about to help.
Me let go of that pain a certainindividual made my childhood

(02:39:02):
very difficult in the. Sport of football.
And maybe I just need to, maybe I need to talk to someone about
it. Was it Tom Brady?
Yeah. So maybe I do need that.
I I will say. My one of my favorite things
about my wife. She hates Tom Brady even more

(02:39:22):
than I do. Like she loathes Tom Brady.
She did. She started hating him before
she even watched football. She was just sick of him
existing. I was really same, Drew says.
I could not stand the 49ers withKaepernick.
Listen, I I've never been able to stand the 49ers.
It has never mattered. Horrible.
I didn't like Harbaugh either. Honestly, I have not liked

(02:39:44):
anybody. I've never liked the 49ers, no.
Anytime I put together like my hate list, I always rank the
49ers ahead of any of the NFC. North teams that we.
Did. In fact, there's been some years
where like, like last year, the Lions really pushed hard.
I remember we did that with Kirby Joseph.

(02:40:04):
With Kirby, Joseph and with. Who is it?
James Houston? Who was it who was like trying
to RIP Jordan's broken leg off? Who is that James?
Houston. Drew says Capric destroyed us.
I mean. Like that playoff game just
never happened. All right.
So, Jake, can I, can I ask you one?
Tiny. Question before sure, before we

(02:40:25):
do the. Other 9 that we need.
To do here, here's my tiny question.
In 20 minutes or so, do you feellike?
I have. Do you feel like you've seen a
big difference in my overall happiness and pleasantness since
we cut Samori Torre? Yes, yes, OK, because I feel it.

(02:40:48):
I just wondered if it was good I.
I yeah, I know. I think it's, I think it's well
known, yes. I think, I think it, it does
show what, what number did you give tight end 7 1/2 and?
And Kraft is carrying a ton. Of that load, like a ton of it,
yeah, a ton, yeah, I went, I went 8 and my justification.
Is Tucker. Craft.
Yeah, Yeah. Oh, Coach Lynn is from Northern

(02:41:13):
California. Can't tell us how much he hates
the Niners. Yeah.
Brutal. I need to back all California
teams. I I was thinking about the other
day and I realized, like, I really like the idea of the A's,
although they're, they're not even in California anymore.
They're in Vegas now, aren't they?
But like, that's the only California team that I don't

(02:41:35):
loathe. I guess there were times when I
liked the Chargers, but now they've hired Jim Harbaugh.
So. Yeah, I'm going to rewatch to
the most hated football teams episode.
I got to go back and watch. That Oh yeah.
Well, I mean, there's a different team that's not an NFL
team that I put ahead of the. Niners, but I'm.
Confident that my number both put there were two teams.

(02:41:58):
The Niners. Yeah.
All right. The A's are in Sacramento now.
Oh. That's weird.
All right, offensive tackle, I'll take your word for it,
'cause you live. Out there and I don't.
But I I didn't. Remember that offensive?
OK, Offensive tackle, I give a 10.
What did you give 9? OK.

(02:42:21):
So far I none. Of these have been very far off.
Man, this is. Crazy what I did is I gave
tackle A10 because. You got Zach, Tom.
And you got Rashid and then I don't hate our depth at all.
I feel like we have multiple options.
So we could start at either tackle spot things that I would

(02:42:43):
not be in a full blown panic about if we had to go play a
game or two. It just so happens that one of
them is a is a starting center, which could, you know, put a
damper on the the interior line,which interior is its own
position group on this ranking list.
But I know that's why again, a nine, I think for me is Belton

(02:43:05):
and Morgan are a little bit moreunknowns at the tackle position,
right? Morgan's got more of his work at
guard. And but again, if Jenkins is
your third, cool. We're still we're still good at
with that. So I I think that I think we
could survive a game with Shawn.Ryan playing a.

(02:43:26):
Tackle possible, probably right tackle, probably not left
tackle. But if we put and then you got
Kadeem Telford, who we have survived with.
He's not good, but he is for like your tackle 5.
Yeah. Show me another team in the NFL
that's not like the Eagles that has a tackle 5 as good as Kadeem

(02:43:49):
Talvert or or wherever he is. On the list, I mean he's.
Far down the I would have, I would have to do some research,
Drew says. Any thoughts on the second
round? Controversy.
No goody actually. Was asked by Nagler and Venky
over at GSATV about like. Why is it?
That the second round is like the way it is.

(02:44:11):
I'm assuming you're talking about like with with people with
second round picks taking so long to get signed.
And he? Basically pinned the entire
thing on like look like with theway the CBA is set up and it's
not structured super heavily, the agents don't want to get
jumped. So like everybody is waiting for

(02:44:33):
the 64th pick to get his deal done and then for the 63rd pick
to get his deal done and they don't want to get jumped.
Because if because. If you're like, hey, man, you
know, I'm the 45th pick and you know, my guy didn't get, you
know, he my, my, my, my 45th pick cornerback got less

(02:44:55):
guaranteed money than the 52nd pick cornerback.
Like that tanks your reputation.So Guti was basically saying
like, it's just the way it is. None of us stress about it.
You know, probably a future CBA is going to have a little bit
more, you know, fingers in the pie there at that point.
Coach Lynn says more than OK with Ryan at guard or backup
center. I mean backup, sure.

(02:45:16):
Backup. Guard or backup center?
Sure, I don't really want him starting, but so you you had a
A9 for offensive tackle. I did so essentially what I.
Did is I kind of like went. Ranked them first and then put
the numbers so I could like makethe order and I go Oh yeah, OK
am I more confident about this than this this and this this the
OK yeah. So that's a kind of how I went

(02:45:39):
about it. And I, I, I just.
Went. 10 because even though I. Don't think we have like the.
Best left tackle in the league? We have a certainly adequate
left tackle and we have a very. Pleasant amount.
Of depth at the offensive tacklespot, so that that to me.

(02:46:00):
Pumped up to A10. It is my highest line.
It is my highest of any. I I had two 10s, I had
quarterback of right, Yeah, yeah.
So I have right now, in order ofthe ones we've talked about,
tackle. Running back and quarterback are
the same. And then tight end and then
receiver. So in that order.

(02:46:22):
Yeah, mine was about the same asthat, although I had I also had
head coach in there. Yeah, head coach is.
T1 for me as well, obviously with with.
Offensive I had head coach tied with tight end.
They both had eight. Interior offensive line is one
of the lower scores I handed out.

(02:46:44):
It's it's, it's this tied with wide receiver for the lowest
score on offense. I gave it a six and Elton
Jenkins is carrying a lot of that six and I think, I think
I'm still. Second guessing whether 6.
Is too high because I don't likeour depth at interior at all and

(02:47:10):
I don't like our options at right guard very much.
I really want Anthony Belton to win the right guard job.
My guy need to get get that thing, get that thing signed so
we can get some reps contracts by a guy I need, I need, I need

(02:47:32):
to see him show us that we have a right guard on the roster
because I still don't know if wedo.
That would be nice. What?
What number did you give interior?
I went back and forth. Between 5:00 and 5:00 and a.
Half, seven and five and a half.Yeah.
I I don't know, I I gave it a stick, I don't want to give it a
5. Def is struggling here.

(02:47:54):
And yeah, I just again, Aaron Banks, it's a projection
signing. It is.
He's was. Well, and you liked five.
I think you liked banks. No, you liked Nate Hobbs more
than I did. I think I liked banks a little
bit more than you. But I didn't love Banks, right?
My biggest problem with Banks isnot on the is not that he's on

(02:48:15):
the roster, it's that we paid him starter money.
And so like if he was like literally average or if he's
like if he was just a guy who was in the mix, I wouldn't mind
having him on the roster. But the fact that we have like
he is a. Starter on this.
Offensive line, it's a lot of money.
Yeah, that bothers me. Yep.

(02:48:37):
I would like, I would like Banksto be competing with somebody.
I would like him to be an. Option for us at left.
Guard, not the left guard. Just hope we don't have any
issues and we're good. I also don't think he's left
guard material. I like him a lot better as a
right guard than I do left guard.
I don't think that he's I don't think, I don't think he is our
best left guard option. I think we could go Walker,

(02:48:59):
Belton, Jenkins, Banks, Tom. I.
Would be interested in seeing Belton or Morgan at left guard.
Sure, and instead we're probablygoing to see one of those two
guys at right guard. I'd rather if.
If Banks was in the mix for right guard, I would pick him to

(02:49:22):
be our starting right guard. I think he's the best right
guard we have on the roster. But the Packers don't seem to
think he can play right guard. I don't.
It seems like he doesn't think he can play right guard, so I
don't know. Coach Lynn said Belton and Ryan
platooning at the guard spot would be ideal.
Look, there's a lot of people who really like.
Shawn Ryan. My problem with Shawn Ryan is he
is completely unreliable. He's.

(02:49:42):
He's up and down. And up and down his higher.
My guy Shawn Ryan got beat at. Cedar.
Point. He's an attraction at Cedar
Point. Period.
Yeah, my hope is he's. Just doesn't become a merry go
round. Yeah.
So like, here's the here's the deal.
And I know, I know Drew is talking about Trey Smith getting
signed for for a big deal. And again, this isn't guaranteed

(02:50:06):
money. This was just that the average
annual value that's that's put out there based on the
contracts, right. Obviously Trey Smith is now is
now one right. It like 2023 1/2 Yeah. 23 1/2
Dickerson at 21. Lindstrom at 20.
And a half Nelson at 20. Hunt at 20, Banks at 19.25.

(02:50:33):
Yeah, that's just a lot cost me at. 18 1/2 and.
Then miners somehow a steal for Denver.
Right now at 18. Wow.
It's so like it just seems like First off, banks it caused me
sitting in that group is. Kind of strange to me.
I do I do like that Banks is humongous.
I like that it does. It's very helpful.

(02:50:54):
He's humongous and he and he wasn't a liability in a zone
offense, which is something tells he can he can move right.
So that's the look. I'll, I'll.
Trust. Goody on the bank's signing, all
right, He's he's made a lot of moves in the last. 15 months.

(02:51:15):
That I will not give him. Benefit of the Doubt 4.
Aaron. Banks will give him benefit.
Of the doubt four and the the guaranteed money is not
horrific. Oh, minors may be 20.
Sorry, getting conflicting Intelhere.
Minors might be 20. But again, it's, it's, yeah,
it's a, it's a lot. It's a lot.

(02:51:38):
Anyway, the the. Offense here here I will say my.
Number one priority this offseason.
Yeah, Drew says the Billy Turnersigning was pretty bad.
He was pretty bad like this. The signing was bad.
And like, sure, he played a bajillion snaps for us because
he was here and because we're paying him a lot of money.

(02:51:59):
And I know there's other guys onhis roster who kind of fit that
exact same mold, All right, Like, honestly, Billy Turner and
Kenny Clark is a great comparison of you got a guy who
doesn't miss any time. He's always available, is highly
liked. By the coaching.

(02:52:19):
Staff and is. Pretty bad on the field.
Yeah, but he's not going to get replaced because we're paying.
Him. Buckets of money and.
There's nobody else and there's nobody else.
Yeah, but my number one prioritythis offseason was fix.
The offense. Yeah, Goody.

(02:52:40):
Goody seemed to think so as well.
The offense is the one. And I and.
I. I was.
Always was that priority. What did you say, Goody?
I knew you did the moon meme. Yeah, the moon meme where it's
like, wait, offense was the one Goody was talking about with the
urgency. Always was, yeah, Yeah.
Which that's what I assumed it was when he was talking about.

(02:53:01):
I thought he was talking about the wide receivers.
It sounds. Like, he's also talking about
the offensive line and frankly, offensive line and wide
receiver. I mean, those to me were the
biggest problems. We brought up a bunch talking
about how Simmons and Connerly were potentially gonna be picks
there because, again, Walker, ishe gonna sign, right?
Is he going to be a priority? I think right behind Tom?

(02:53:22):
I still do think so. So Belton's gonna get a guard
spot. Yeah.
Look man, but again, the way guards are making money.
It's a second round. Pick for a.
Guard who you're paying not thatmuch when they're getting. 20
million. Dollars a year like you can you
can look at like the the two things like hey look at this
banks guy for two for 19.25 and it's like yeah, we drafted belt

(02:53:43):
and who's might be doing the same thing for so much less kind
of well it it it it's just like the Kenny Clark thing it doesn't
make. Sense on paper.
Unless you just believe the Packers and the Packers say,
hey, we think Kenny Clark is like one of the.

(02:54:04):
Best to do it. And you're like, OK, you're
wrong, but at least your plan makes sense.
If I believe that, you believe that, yes, with offensive line,
they know. We know we've got a passel of
guys who we. Don't think.
Are guards and we also think, hey man, it feels like we got a

(02:54:25):
lot of tackles and the Packers are going tell you, man, these
are tackles like Jordan Morgan tackle, Anthony Belton tackle,
Shawn Ryan tackle and we're going no, no, no, no, you're
you're wrong. Like this.
This is not this is not. But if you just believe them, if
you believe that they mean what they're saying.

(02:54:45):
It makes more sense on paper I. Think they're keeping Rashid?
Obviously, they're going to pay Zach, Tom.
Obviously. Nobody should stress about that.
There's a lot of people stressing about it.
You shouldn't. Yeah, Elton's going to get
something adjusted with his contract I.
Don't know whether they're goingto add more.
Years or just more money, but. They're going to add something.
All right, they're going to givehim something.

(02:55:06):
Zach time is going to get paid. I think Rasheed is going to get
a contract and like you look at.Romeo Dobbs, All right.
Romeo Dobbs, Apparently Dobbs agent approached Goody at the
draft, No at the combine. Approached him at the combine

(02:55:27):
and proposed a was it 3? I think it was a three-year, $39
million extension. For Dobbs, so. 13A.
Year and apparently allegedly, you know, take it with a grain
of salt. This is like fifth hand
reporting. Apparently Goody was like, so

(02:55:49):
not interested in that, that he kind of like laughed it off.
All right, read the tea leaves. I think Dobbs is probably not
back. And I think.
Watson is. Back that's that's how I read
those teams right And so would Green Bay move Dobbs to
Pittsburgh this summer They'd have to for me to be interested

(02:56:13):
in it they. 'D have to get something back.
Because wide receiver is. So much in.
Flux and Dobbs is one of those guys who I don't have big
questions about on the field. Now I got some questions other
than the concussion. I do have some off the field
questions about him. Frankly, like I don't think that

(02:56:34):
the thing that happened last year with him was nothing where
he's just like doing a holdout mid season.
That's not nothing. I don't care if the front office
and the coaches and. Dobbs and his teammates.
All say yeah, yeah, yeah. It's blown over.
Like what's It's all behind us. It's not nothing to me.

(02:56:55):
Yeah. So what what is the minimum
draft pick compensation that would it would take for you to
pull the trigger on trading Dobbs this summer?
Sounds like it. Sounds like a great question
next week. OK.

(02:57:16):
As we try to roll through this defensive confidence, give me
give me the SpongeBob. Write that down.
Write that down. Write that down.
Yes, also Captain America, the first Avenger when Howard Stark
and his laboratory lackey are like playing with the the
Tesseract or something. They don't have the tesseract.

(02:57:37):
They just have a little, the little battery thing that was
powered by the Tesseract. And he goes and like, Oh yeah,
Tao claws and he and Howard's like, write that down.
Yeah. OK, so.
Offense, I think. Grades out.

(02:57:59):
Fine. I still I don't have high
confidence in the two positions that I said was a problem last
year, but I appreciate that Gutitried to address it.
We'll see if his attempts at addressing it have fixed it if
they were a big deal. I have both of them at A6 going
into this year and maybe interior offensive line should

(02:58:19):
only be a 5 but I think. Maybe the?
Thing that's keeping it a six for me is that even though I
don't feel confident in our starting guards, can't deny we
have a pile of backups who are all like the same level of
talent as whoever's going to be the starter.
So if we lose a starter, I just don't know that you can be that

(02:58:41):
concerned because it's like, whatever, you just grab another
guy out of the bag because they're all, they're all just a
pile of yeah, that's true. That's true defensive tackle.
What number did you give? Two generous.
I went with a. One can I tell you?
Is Devante. Wyatt as a pass rusher, can I,

(02:59:06):
can I give you? Sure.
Because, you know, I've been big.
On the Devante Wyatt train, right?
Can I give you a stat? That we've never talked about on
here. Yeah.
That I don't know if you know it.
Because I hadn't. I didn't know it.
What Devante Wyatt? Accounted.
For 61% of green base pressure from the interior last year.

(02:59:29):
Is it something like that? No, I it's, it's a negative
stat. Oh, how many?
Well that could be construed as negative because he missed games
and the rest of the D line isn'tdoing that so.
On that note, how? Many games in his NFL career has
Devante Wyatt started. When was he picked?

(02:59:54):
20/22 he was picked in 2022. OK.
I. Guarantee you're not going to be
close 16. 5. Wow, and my first I'm sorry when
the number is. Five, I'm not just going to

(03:00:15):
brush it. Off.
It's not great. Especially since it is a rookie.
I knew they weren't you still. Probably figured they weren't
going to. Do that.
Drew guessed 0 by the way. And for the record, Drew was
closer to the correct answer than you were, and his answer
was 0. So look, I love Devante.

(03:00:35):
He missed a lot of last year andthere's nobody there's.
Nobody on the roster. Behind him, my confidence level
in Kenny. Clark is.
A zero my. Confidence.
My confidence level in Warren Brinson is a 0.

(03:00:56):
Coach was asking if Slayton was back, what would you give this
group? It wouldn't change it for me. 2
1/2 maybe I I go from A1 up to like a one point.
Three, I guess. Because Slayton was never going
to be. It's rough a starter U says.
Does it really matter if you rotate heavily?
Rotate tires in the room. Rotate Nazir, Stackhouse and

(03:01:21):
Warren. Brinson, this is our plan.
I love Carl Brooks. He's a.
Tweener. I love him as a defensive.
End. Not as a defensive tackle.
He's struggling, yeah. OK.
Defensive end, what number did you give?
This group. 6. I gave it a six as well and

(03:01:41):
it's. Almost entirely Rashon Gary.
I love Rashon Gary. I think he's, I think starting
in 2020. 5. You know, fully healthy.
I I'm I'm back at this point on there's no excuses like now you
can have full expectations for him like last year.
Last year was still recovery. You should not have had

(03:02:04):
expectations in 23 or 2425. Now is the time you can have all
the expectations and if he. Doesn't live up to him.
You can be. Mad.
All right, Lucas Van Ness needs to step it up.
He's got to be ready to go because we got.
Rid of Preston Smith. We don't have other options, and

(03:02:24):
no, the Packers are not. Trading for.
TJ Watt It's just not happening.No or.
Trey Hendrick. It's just not happening, Drew
said. Some people were saying Gary and
LGN were both going to play. DT do you buy?
That Well then who's playing DE?Yeah, exactly.
It's a lot of guys who are undersized for it, that's for
sure. It's the I know what the plan is

(03:02:48):
very thin. The planet defensive end is
very. Very simple, folks.
Scare banking on the fact that Shamar Stewart does not sign
with the Bengals so that he mustsit out and go back to the
draft. Again.
In 26, because yet again, it's just the same archetype who will

(03:03:09):
be joining the squad in 26. I was so happy that the Bengals
took Shamar Stewart. I so very much did not want.
Him. I guarantee he would have been
the pick, guarantee he would have been the pick if he was
available and I did not want himin the slightest effect.
He's holding out for the Bengals.

(03:03:30):
Well, I mean, it is the Bengals and I love that they took the
guy I didn't want and he's holding out for her.
Here's here's what I will say. I I feel more confident about
Stewart as a prospect now because he is refusing to play
for the Bengals because the defensive players they select
who play for the Bengals are notgood.
So there there's a chance that Stewart knows that the Bengals

(03:03:54):
are the problem, and he says no,I'm not playing here.
I want to play a place that I feel like they actually
developed. Defensive players.
And it's like, oh, maybe Shabar just knows Ball and he
understands that could be that could the problem.
Is is you're. You're opening the door for a
team like Philly to go get him, which I I think is also just not
good. That's the last team I would

(03:04:16):
want to have a player like that.Now I will say, I will say I
would be willing to trade for Shamar Stewart, but I didn't.
I just didn't want him for the price of a first round pick.
They the Bengals. May have a cheese curd burger,

(03:04:38):
maybe 2 of them. And you know, those cheapskates
over there, they might just takethat.
What would you? OK, Cash, this isn't the Dobbs
thing. What would?
You trade for Shamar Stewart. Cash considerations.
Let me ask you this, what round would you have drafted him in to
the Packers if if he just kept falling and falling and falling,

(03:05:00):
when would you pull the three round 3?
So would you trade a third roundpick for her today?
Because I don't think he he he would not get traded for a
first, I think. He would get traded for a

(03:05:23):
second. Can I trade for Ashton?
Gelati instead. Is that allowed?
Moving on to linebacker? Oh wait.
What number did you give defensive end?
Six. Oh yeah, I, I gave a six as
well. I just I, I, I hope Vanessa
makes the. Jump.
I really do, because I think that would be very beneficial.

(03:05:45):
I think Sorrell. Sorrell.
And Oliver can. Be used in a rotational roll
like they need to be. And Igbari.
Can do the same and you feel a little bit better.
Much about Sorrell. Maybe we should come prepared
next week to talk. About some prepared for.
Sorrell. I agree.
I like that. Sorrell So we'll do that next
week. What would you trade Dobbs for?
Ranking Matt Lafleur? Yep.

(03:06:07):
Trading Romeo Dobbs potentially in the offseason.
I'm sorry. And we're going to talk about
Baron Sorrell. I think LVN will.
Step up if he doesn't. My concerns about this defense
skyrocket. I'll just say.
Because if we have to plug holesat corner and defensive.

(03:06:33):
Tackle and defensive end. This defense has no shot.
None whatsoever. Yeah, OK, Linebacker.
I'm I'm going to predict. That this is where we.
Differ the most. I I'm trying to remember where
we currently differ the most on the whole roster.
I think it's, I think we're onlyoff by like a point and a half

(03:06:55):
somewhere. I think it might have been just
love, I think. But you went nine and I went 10,
right? I went eight and a half, 8 1/2.
So we're a point and 1/2. Off on quarterback, I think.
That's it. I'm I'm going to, I'm going to
predict that linebacker is wherewe are the furthest away from
each other. OK.
So it would need to be two. I went four.
What did you do 5 1/2? Oh come on.

(03:07:21):
So technically it is, but. Not.
Exactly. Tide.
Tide what a technicality. So all right, honestly, I
thought about going I thought about going 6.
I really did because I, I think why don't you go six so the
Walker Cooper thing can work. It's.

(03:07:41):
I didn't think it was going to work in this way.
Personally, I thought. I thought Cooper had probably a
better mind for the game and I thought had shown enough of the
contact point to potentially be the mic now I think he then.
Decided this year. That he was comfortable jumping
when he was at contact, which was weird.

(03:08:03):
And so I'm like, well, maybe, OK, maybe Quae's the guy then
who's going to, you know, becomethat Mike?
And obviously they they played him there all year when he was
active. I, I like those two.
I think it's fair, though, to say Koi needs to prove it.
I, I like the idea of not picking up the option.
We need to see it before, you know, you, you shell out big

(03:08:24):
money. I'm after those two.
I think is where it's gets gets.Really dicey it feels.
Like interior, offensive line and defensive end where it's
like you feel good about a couple guys and then it's kind
of like I don't like what else is here.
I am not that big. On Simmons.

(03:08:45):
I feel like I'm bigger on on on their UDFA at this point and
like potentially playing, but again, he's super undersized.
Hopper. I I don't know what the
expectations are supposed to be.I remember what I thought about
our UDFA linebacker, but I can'tremember his name.
Is it is it Demos Johnson? I think it is.
It is. Yeah, yeah, JDJ, right.

(03:09:07):
Jomon Dumas, Johnson. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And and we both like him. Yeah, yeah.
If if we're going to play 15 lbsheavier in this business, right?
Now, if we're going. To play Simmons at linebacker
all year and not go do stupid stuff with him, then I don't

(03:09:27):
mind him as our linebacker 3. I don't want to go play gimmicky
stuff with him and have him go be a nickel and a safety and a
cornerback. I don't want to do all that
crap. It doesn't work in the NFL.
Just play him at will. Linebacker.
Yeah. And I think he's.
Fine as your linebacker 3. For me with Quay.

(03:09:51):
I don't feel like I. Need to see more to give him.
Money. I just there.
Is like no amount of good that would have made me want to pick
up a fifth year option on him. I just would have always wanted
to give him. And that's why I didn't want to
draft a linebacker in the first round because I don't care about
the about the 5th year option for a linebacker because I don't
value linebackers at a first round pick or at the amount of

(03:10:13):
money that the the edge rusher linebackers elevate the interior
linebacker fifth round option upto think about like so if
anybody's seen. The.
The stuff on ESPN which I brought up a couple times of,
like how the, you know, the exacts, the coaches and.
Scouts rank the. Linebackers it is.

(03:10:35):
It's something I get tells you that there is a a top three and
then there's a massive drop off and it's a feeding frenzy of who
the heck's it going to be. But I think Campbell and Cooper
are like guys who could quickly.Move up now.
So what the heck is to Campbell?Oh, Jack Campbell.

(03:10:57):
Yeah, like I think those who could be on their could.
Be well on their way up at this point and like maybe.
Lloyd gets there for. Jacksonville I think is maybe
the one other one, but based on who they ranked four like it,
you could just tell like they don't.
Nobody knows. What to?
What to think at? This point like who, who is 4?
I don't know. I, I don't maybe like I, I have

(03:11:22):
no idea. I I, I don't think I've no clue.
People who are not coaching linebacker rooms have much.
Of an ability to. Evaluate linebackers.
Period. Because you just don't know what
they're supposed to be doing. In a play, and for me, there's

(03:11:42):
really only one thing that I actually care about with
linebackers like. You know, maybe you could.
Say like speed is like a secondary thing.
But the only thing I actually care about with linebackers?
Is how well do you tackle? If you are a good tackler, I
like you. If you are not a good tackler, I

(03:12:03):
don't like you. Yeah.
So that's that's, that's kind ofwhat it is because, because I
don't. Have any ability and neither
does anybody. Else to say, Oh well, he screwed
up on this play because he should have gone on this gap.
We don't know what he was told to do.
No, that's the problem with linebacker.
We don't know what he was told to do.
We don't know in college. We don't know in the NFL what he

(03:12:25):
was told to do. And for that you can see quicks,
you can see agility, right? You can see the balance, you can
see the strength that they play with.
You can see the range, right? I think you can the ability to
wrap a guy up, the recognition coverage I think is much easier
to diagnose if they're playing like weak hook or if they're

(03:12:46):
running the Tampa hole, right? Like you can tell what the
assignment is in coverage, the between the tackles.
This is your gap responsibility.You have to know everybody's.
On top of it, right in front of him to know what he's supposed
to do if he's supposed to attackthe outside shoulder of the
guard. That's hard.
The inside shoulder of the guard, Right.
So that all of that. Yeah.
So like there's only certain things you can get a handle on

(03:13:10):
like, oh, can they sniff out a screen right.
Like that? Yeah, obviously you can.
You of course you can look at some.
Of that, like Cooper, was good. At that, Schlesinger was really
good at that UCLA this past year.
So yeah, there there is some things, but you don't have the
full grasp. It's very difficult when they're
pulling the coaches. And.
Execs and the scouts, they're not always looking at everybody
around the league playing linebacker, right?

(03:13:31):
The coordinators aren't always looking at the linebacker
necessarily. So, yeah, after Warner, Roquan
Smith always factored in and they shoot.
Yeah, after those 3, it's a crapshoot at the position right
now, really is Warner, Roquan Smith.

(03:13:52):
And Zach Bond. I mean that.
Where else did he go? I'm not.
I'm. I'm even.
Balking and putting Roquan in that top three.
OK, to me, I would, I would balkon bond more because he's only
done one year. But like, fair enough.
Warner is the only slam dunk forhe got like NFL linebacker.

(03:14:12):
I think he got like 91% of the 1st place votes and he should
have. He should have.
Yeah, he's he's the dude, no question.
So yeah, again, that's anyway. So the the reason I have
linebacker at 4 is because I'm still not there yet with Edgar
Cooper. I need to see more.

(03:14:34):
And to just to anybody who is going to be shocked or upset by
that, like just consider the Packers.
Coaches. Their linebackers coach.
Did not trust him enough to put him out there and make him a
starter. He was a bit player, a role
player for the whole season. So yeah, you can.

(03:14:58):
You can. You can believe in Edrin Cooper.
The Packers coaches are still easing him in.
Slowly and I still. Need to see more before I'm
going to be like. Oh yeah man, this is like.
The dude, like he's arrived, like I have more confidence in
Quay than anybody else in that linebacker room because I know
what Quay is. I don't know what Edrin Cooper
is. I really don't know what Isaiah
Sidmens is, right? Which is a bad thing to say for

(03:15:20):
somebody who was drafted in the 2020.
Yeah. So like, yeah.
And again, you're not going to play a guy which is you're not
going to know what you have in him.
Yeah. With.
Cooper What's? Important, I think, is the fact
that like, clearly linebacker ishard to play, extremely hard to
play. And that's why he wasn't getting

(03:15:41):
on the field, you know, as much as you know, maybe I think most
of us would have hoped he would have, right?
Because it's hard to do. It's a very difficult thing and
you know, Kuwait has shown the ability and coverage and, and
Mcduffie can play a little bit downhill between the tackles,
right, with the kind of the way he can take on blocks and and
diagnose certain things, right. But, and, and that's why it made

(03:16:02):
it maybe easier to ease him in. But the position's hard to play
like things. That Warner.
Does are are extremely difficultto do?
Also, the Niners keep getting these guys.
I swear it's always the Niners with these linebackers.
It's. Crazy stuff.
And the offensive line they put,they put that work in.
Scott needs linebackers. They know.

(03:16:24):
Yeah. So that that's what makes it
difficult. It's it's it's a fascinating
position to. Think you understand?
Yeah, because if you lead leaguein tackles, cool, that just
means your defensive line is notdoing their job, right.
Or you know, you know, how many of those tackles are you like
overrunning a play and then. You know.

(03:16:45):
Hustling could be a lot. How many plays are you out of
position in coverage and you know the ball happens to be near
you, You know there could be a few of those.
So all right, just. A couple left to go.
My webcam is spazzing out. There's a red light.
Flashing on it that isn't Oh. Well, we better hurry with our

(03:17:05):
last two here, I guess. I got, I got 3.
This is one more. Uh oh.
The camera has a. Mind of its own.
Oh Luke, turning my camera off here while I try and fix this
guy. I don't know what it's doing.
Well, it's going crazy folks. I have AI have a webcam that can
move itself and it's starting todo so.

(03:17:29):
Oh, it is going bonkers right now.
It is spinning like a top. We got a new listener in the
chat here. Norsefias I think.
That's how you say your name. But since you got Norse in your
name, I'm assuming you're a Vikings fan.
I don't know. Hello fellas, How you doing
tonight? Thank you for joining.
Hope you tune in again in the future as well.

(03:17:51):
Tell us about yourself. Are you a Vikings fan?
Packers fan? What's going on?
Just. Chilling on YouTube.
Late night tool for this says Holy cow y'all.
Are still going. Yep.
We're watching the three. 2102 that.
We did a few a. Month or so ago we're on watch.

(03:18:13):
3/18/26 will be. 27 will be officially.
The second longest, so we're about to hit that.
I'm so proud because 90 minutes were spent on ranking.
The GMs got sidetracked a lot, says I pronounced.
Their name correctly so. That makes perfect love that.

(03:18:34):
And hey, I got I got some good news.
Yeah. Do you want to you want to hear
the good news? I think we should get to corner
safety and special. Teams, here's the good news.
Oh good, OK, see me again. OK good.
The red flashing light stopped Norse fias, says Vikings fan.
Here, but don't. Worry.
All right, I won't worry. I mean, I don't usually worry
about the Vikings anyways. But I'm glad to have you here.

(03:18:56):
Hope you'll TuneIn next week. We go every Tuesday night. 7/15.
Central Time OK, cornerback for the Packers.
What number did you? Give this one through 10. 4 1/2
I went three. So we've got three positions now
tied at 1.5. Yeah, I just don't think we have

(03:19:17):
ACD 1 and I think that's going to be a huge problem come
playoff. Time Valentine.
Find in the regular season Valentine in the yards per
cover, snap and pass. A rating chart looks really
good, just doesn't have the sample size that others do in
that quadrant. So that is something we have to
monitor. As far as the rest, still

(03:19:42):
believer in Hobbes. I'm just interested to figure
out where he's playing. I think that'll be the the the
biggest indication is when you know, Hod quits and those guys
are tweeting out who the first team defense is with the
numbers. Those that's always a fun time
to follow. Excited for that to come out.
But and then where Nixon fits in?

(03:20:03):
Does Bullard fit into this? Are these UDFAS and and Michael?
Robinson be crashing? The party like how is this all
going to shake out without JA that's why I'm again, I'm lower
on this than the than the linebacker because.
I feel. Much more confident in the
starters I think just again Valentine's small sample size.

(03:20:24):
Where's Hobbes playing? I feel good about Hobbes
ability, I just don't know. Does his does his greatest
strengths get? I would be fine if you're
telling me. You know Hobbes is.
Our CB2 or he's our slot guy or whatever I'm.

(03:20:44):
Certainly I'm fine with. That, but we don't have ACB 1
and we can coach through the regular season with that.
Somebody needs to establish themselves and be a dog or we
are in trouble come playoff timebecause you know who you're not
going to run into starting like the divisional round of the
playoffs? Teams with crappy wide

(03:21:05):
receivers, no passing game. I need to check one.
Thing. I'm just I'm.
Just looking at that chart so see if.
If there are any trade targets on here?
There's not we've we've looked at this before we, we got.

(03:21:26):
Norse Fias. Says Detroitlet fans are
becoming scumbags. I agree.
Douglas is pretty good on this. On this chart.
He doesn't seem like he thinks he's coming here though.
No, he does not. Think he's coming here.
I don't think he. Really has any interest in it

(03:21:47):
either. And frankly, he had himself a
rough year last year. Yeah.
Like I'm not saying I would say no to him, but even if we had
him, I'm not suddenly feeling better about our corner.
I'm feeling about the same aboutour quarterback room, to be
honest. Safety What number did you give
safeties? 8 1/2.

(03:22:07):
Baby. Safety.
I went seven, I went 7. Run this joint.
I went seven because I really like X.
Yes, and we saw. Some good stuff from Evan.
Last year, but I just. Want to see him do it?
Twice Baton. I just want to see him do it

(03:22:30):
twice and I want Katan to. Be playing a big role.
On defence, yeah, I'm all the way in, that's where I'm at.
I'm just all the way. In I just again I.
Think XI can see if. Katan will come on the podcast.
He he's like, he's one of the only players I talked to.
I would, I think he might be down for coming on here.

(03:22:51):
I would really like to have Tucker.
Craft on. As well, I don't know how we
would get Tucker Craft on here. It will be nice figured out.
I mean, hey. We're.
Just shooting for the moon. Like, give me Jordan love.
Well, of course, but Tay Wicks. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, Tay.
What if we had Jayden Reid? Like, we'd have to.
We would have to pay. Golden's on YouTube.

(03:23:13):
Matthew Golden's on YouTube. Yeah, He just posted a video
about the. Bass fishing trip he went on
with. Sorrell.
Baron Sorrell. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was, that's got to be cool.I'm going to walk back to Mac
and cheese. I will say there are some Browns
corners who have some decent. Numbers here.
If they decide to sell, maybe you get it, maybe you get some

(03:23:34):
interest there. Just worried about.
Just let me ask you this thing I'm worried about is Emerson's
speed. You know that's what I'm saying.
Norse Fias asks for an. Honest opinion about.
JJ McCarthy, I'm going to be honest.
Jake, I'm really. Tempted to tell Norse fias he
has to come back next week for that.
I'm so tempted. I know my only prop.

(03:23:56):
My only thought is I don't know that we would.
Let's give a, let's give the short answer.
Let's give a short answer. And if he wants a long answer,
that we can do next week. How's that sound?
I think it sounds. I think that sounds fair, yeah.
I think it sounds here's I'll just repeat what I said a lot.
Last last year about. McCarthy.

(03:24:19):
I really, really, really hated him as a draft prospect, but I
did say a bunch of times if a team.
Would draft. Him and be willing to sit him
for like 2 years. He had the tools to succeed I.

(03:24:41):
Don't think. That he showed a good processor
in college. I think he was given some pretty
darn easy reads. Didn't think he had a.
Great arm. Which I don't care about very
much, but I didn't think he had a great processor either, which
I do care about, as you should. He he was very, very, very far

(03:25:02):
away from being pro ready. When he was drafted.
But so was Jordan love, so I I think that the Vikings being
forced to sit him for. A year.
Was the best thing that could happen for him.
The second best thing that couldhappen for him would be if they
chose to sit him this year as well.
There was one way to do that. There was one way to do that

(03:25:23):
because QV was holding out hope,I think, for them to make that
move. Rogers Yeah, sure.
Yeah. Right.
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I I think the velocity's pretty good in my.
Opinion. I think the one.
Thing again that I think is is afun thing to weigh back.

(03:25:44):
And forth. Is.
Again, just how much the experience?
Matters we're going to get, you know, a real good indication of
that with Ward to to further back that up this year, right?
Nix comes in with a lot of experience and does well, right?
Jane Daniels comes in with a tonof experience, lights it up,

(03:26:04):
right? That is so freaking.
And so McCarthy's got, you know,more starts under the belt than
say a Trey Lance or an Anthony Richardson, right, which is
good. I agree with the number is now
Jalen Hurts had a ton of experience, right, a ton as
well. So I do think though the the

(03:26:27):
sitting helps. I think again, I remember
saying. This if like only two.
Q BS panned out, I'd be like, well, give me Williams and then
whoever goes to Minnesota because I trust Kevin O'Connell
that much. I I think there's plenty there
for him to work with. You have the, in my opinion, the
best receiver in football to work with out there.

(03:26:50):
And Jefferson, a, a player who Ithink is is shown a bit more
through contact and winning downthe field.
And Addison that he did in year 2, you know, and relative to
year 1, Hawkinson is, is going to be helpful.
Josh Oliver gives them more helpin the run game to not put too

(03:27:12):
much on McCarthy's plate. They go get a center and garden
free agency and they bring in Jordan Mason.
Like, I think it sets up really nicely where Jefferson's always
going to be, you know, used as aguy you can get quick wins with.
And they did that with Darnold last year.
Right. Like they did that with like.
They got Jefferson in the flat on some quick, you know, pseudo

(03:27:35):
abandoned the play action very quickly.
Get it, get the ball out to him like they're going to have.
That, but I do think McCarthy. Middle of the field.
I think he's shown it and I think that will help, you know,
having Jefferson and and Hawkinson certainly helps that.
I think there are, I think thereare a wider range of outcomes
than there are with some of these other guys from his class.

(03:27:56):
But he I think he's more likely to the right spot.
Yeah. I mean, the stats would tell you
no, based on what we've seen from these QBs already in this
draft class. No, I'm, I'm, I'm saying because
of his situation and the fact that Sam preached Arnold.
Yes, certainly. Well, he was like proof of
concept last year. Sam Darnold was proof of

(03:28:16):
concept. Listen, Sam Darnold was doing so
well. People were like, hey, we should
send Bryce Young up there, send Richardson up there, send Daniel
Jones. Not wrong, resurrect, not wrong,
right. Like so well, I'll, I'll tell
you another town. I'll tell you another town that
people should have that same attitude toward, and that is
Green Bay. I mean, look at freaking Malik

(03:28:38):
Willis, all right? Like if that was.
If there was ever a reclamation.Prospect, like Malik Willis, had
nothing going for him. The difference I, I.
I don't care if you. Don't love what Malik Willis
did. You have to acknowledge the gap
between what Malik Willis did with the Packers and what we had
ever seen at any point in his career prior to that.

(03:29:01):
You don't have to think that he's a great Kiwi to
acknowledge. The.
Level up that he took when he went to greenback.
Yeah, for sure. So you got maybe a shortish,
longish answer. By the way, did you see?
This. Story you probably did from

(03:29:22):
Warren Sharp. Well, actually, no, he didn't
write the story. He just screenshot it.
Somebody else's story about Shamar Stewart, The where he is
right now. Do you know where he is right
now? No, he's back in College
Station. He is practicing with.
With the Aggies right now. Wait, ANM was the College

(03:29:44):
Station, right? I'm not getting up on there.
There's two things. You should never do on air 1 is.
Math. And two is try and make quick
associations with. Yeah, it's OK.
So anyways, yeah, he is practicing with the Aggies this.
Summer he is. This is interesting.

(03:30:05):
So Ben Albright said Stewart would be ineligible.
To play for A and. M obviously of course, but he
can go back and take classes sitthe year out and re enter the
draft next year correct? Yep, Norse fiesta's.
I'm actually going to stub to you.
You seem like OK G it's. Back.
Thank you for that in our show. Description.

(03:30:27):
OK, dudes, Yes, that's that's a good Yeah, put that on a banner
for next week's thumbnail. Thanks.
For joining us, we're going to talk about we're going to talk
about his brother Hacker is harder than wait, whose brother?
Trey Lance you talking about Bryce Lance this year?

(03:30:47):
Pretty sure we're going to what position is he wide receiver?
So so your your number for safety was 8 1/2.
Yes. OK.
And mine and mine was 7 and that's mostly off of just like.
Wanting to. See Evan Williams repeat.

(03:31:11):
I like what I saw from him in year 1, but I just.
Need to know. That it's not a fluke.
Because we just. I I think he's good, but I just
want to see it last category before we wrap.
It up and get out of here. Yeah, special agree with nor
Norris Vias that Bryce is much better.
Yeah, I think, I think that I mean almost everybody's much
better. I think that will prove true.

(03:31:34):
Excited about him this year. Tell you what we're going to
see. Special teams.
Let's do it. What number did you give special
teams? One.
Me too. Easiest one.
Easiest one there was. Honestly.
Yeah, and you know what? It was a one.
Because of Brandon McManus and. And Dan Whelan.
If it not for those two guys, itwould have been a zero.

(03:31:56):
And you go, well that's most of special teams, isn't it?
But no long snapper, kick coverage, punk coverage, power
return, kick return. You would think that even though
the other team can have 11 guys on the field, you would think
that only one guy for us would count.
But actually we count on 11 and that's why it's a one I have.
It does sometimes feel the big. 10 out there confidence.

(03:32:20):
Oh it it looks like they have 9 sometimes, yeah.
Exactly. Sometimes 10, most of the time
9. Tool Fizz said.
Matt Ozark gets -5 Honestly. That's generous.
I don't. I don't $1 billion -, 1 billion.

(03:32:41):
No, no, no, don't say. That don't say the Nope, I can't
call him that. No, he called Joe Berry that for
years. I know.
Don't do it. I'm.
Feeling suppressed? Here you.
Probably didn't like. When people called the Pacers
the Haliband this year. Then either did you?

(03:33:03):
You know, people do what they want in their own time.
Well, OK, it's their own time all.
Right, if you don't want me to say that word, then give me a
different. Word This is a program.
Because he has pictures. He's a menace to this.
He's a menace to society to openthis and well, Waylon literally
saved us from Marty. Ozempic.

(03:33:25):
Oh man, Matt Orszak is Trey Lance.
OK there. You go with better hair.
There we go. All right, listen, you know what
time? It is.
You have squandered it's. The time to go to bed?
3 hours. And 33 minutes.
Is this our? This is our record, Jake.

(03:33:47):
Yes. OK, I'm so proud of us.
I'm so proud of us. I think JJ is derailer of the
show. We got off.
He got off onto a lot of. Tangents.
See, I tangented, but you ranted.
You had you had some long. Rants which were good, honestly

(03:34:09):
I'm I was often just trying to get us.
To cover. Some, some I.
Yeah, I think, I think the firsthalf, I think the first half
was. My.
Rants and I think the second-half once we got to the
the, it's fair the which it maybe was more than half when we
got to the confidence. Meter.

(03:34:31):
That's what it felt like, All right, Which is just, I mean,
you're just asking for it if youserve up a.
Question like that to me on thispodcast and you.
Know that you can. You know that you can put Tate
Wicks. No, you're good, Norris Pius,
you're fine. The JJ question was a great
question. We love when new viewers come
around. That's that's a lot of fun.

(03:34:51):
That's a lot of fun. Don't don't take what I'm saying
as the commenters are the problem.
No, no, no, no, we we are the problem.
That's why we're here for three.That's why this show exists is
why it's called I mean literallyit's called derailed.
We derailed ourselves episode one.
We chose to name it derailed because of how episode 1 went.
We had it. We're talking about like
Godzilla, you know, Ras scores the topic of the first ever

(03:35:15):
episode was supposed to be like under the radar Packers we were
driving the bus for and like by the end of it, we.
Were like. What was the topic even?
To even start, that's what happens.
Out here we named it derailed inthe last like 5 minutes of the
first episode. Yeah.
So anyways, listen, you derailedme.

(03:35:37):
While I was. Trying to do the outro.
So that one's on you. Yeah, for sure, For sure.
I this this morning I was like. Brainstorming.
You know how I wanted to like start the pod off and I had an
idea that too old for this wasn't going to be able to make
it. And so like, I'm in the shower

(03:35:59):
and I'm like kind of practicing some of the things I want to
like bring up. And I was somehow I got on this
tangent in the shower talking about how too old for this was
responsible for Godzilla's Relative Athletic score being a
meme on this podcast. And I realized This is why I'm
the perfect host for Derailed because I derail myself when
we're not even recording. Apparently this dog.

(03:36:25):
Thing in Superman really is a real thing.
I didn't know about this tool. For this, I'm gonna watch.
The movie. All right, You talked me into.
I'm gonna watch it. Gosh.
Better prospect than air, bud. Many are asking.
The prospect is Godzilla, but yeah, well, no.
This is just strictly. Dogs.
Ed Policy Ed policy's kicking usoff.

(03:36:46):
He won't let us talk about dogs.We've done it again.
You wasted a whole evening with us here on Derail.
Thank you for doing so. We appreciate you.
We love you Jake. Appreciate you my Co host.
In the words of Mr. Late, great Mr. Ed policy stringing over
your heart, you heathen. I was it.

(03:37:06):
Was Norse just asked if we wouldjoin them on a live show?
You. You.
You were. You were talking to me.
I could. Reply in.
Full I could reply. In full you you.
This live stream on Facebook is going to have one.
Comment. It's going to be from us and it
just says sure, this is amazing.Would we like to come on a live

(03:37:31):
show on Voca like? Channel We're good people over
there. You know what you tricked?
Out. I'll say sure.
I'll say sure, but you gotta, you gotta keep tuning into the
show. Appreciate you for subscribing,
folks. Go, pack.
Go.

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