March 4, 2025 • 21 mins
Join Dr. Trotter and Dr. Iris Rubin this week to dive further into the world of hair! But it's not hair loss this week, it's hair care. Listen to learn how our skin and hair are connected, and how to care for them both!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Dermot Trotter Don't Swear About Skin
Care where host Dr Shannon CTrotter, a board certified
dermatologist, sits down withfellow dermatologists and
skincare experts to separatefact from fiction and simplify
skincare.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Let's get started, welcome to the Dermot Trotter
Don't Swear About Skin Carepodcast.
Today we're gonna tackle a topicthat everyone wants to know
more about your hair and how dowe care about it and I've got a
great expert on today to talkmore with you and get all those
details that you're dying toknow.
So I have Dr Iris Rubin, thefounder of Scene, a patented,
(00:38):
award-winning good for skin haircare line that's science-backed
and mission-driven, and she'shere today to talk with us more.
She received her undergraduatedegree with honors from Stanford
University and her medicaldegree from Harvard Medical
School.
She did her dermatologyresidency at the University of
Chicago and Harvard MedicalSchool and served as academic
chief resident at Harvard.
She completed a laserfellowship at Massachusetts
(01:00):
General Hospital and WellmanCenter for Photomedicine Prior
to launching SANE.
Dr Rubin's previous positionsincluded medical director of the
Dermatologic and Vascular LaserSurgery Program at Children's
National Medical Center in DCand dermatologist in
Massachusetts General Hospitaland a faculty member at Harvard
Medical School.
And now we're so lucky to haveher here on the podcast today to
(01:21):
talk about hair care.
Welcome to the podcast, drRubin.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you so much.
Please call me Arise, and Ihope you don't mind, dr Trotter,
if I call you Shannon, but yeahit's exciting to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm a fan of what you're doing and it's a real
privilege.
Well, thank you, arise.
I really appreciate thatbecause you know, as we were
talking before getting on thispodcast, I feel like hair care
sometimes gets missed.
You know we talk a lot aboutskincare.
You know the title this haircare is skincare that we need to
dive in a little bit more andreally educate the public on
what's good for their hair,because there's a lot of
information out there you knowgood but also some bad
information, so we're going totalk more about that so we can
(01:59):
really give everyone out there agood idea of how to take care
of their hair, because it's justimportant as anything else on
your skin.
Absolutely.
I want to find out if you wouldkind of just briefly talk about
how you perceive or think about, like hair and scalp, how do
you think about it as a part ofskincare and what motivated you
to think you know a little bitmore about it and get into
(02:20):
developing this product line.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I actually never in a millionyears thought I would launch a
product line.
I was once called in at aprivate practice I worked at
after moving from Boston.
I was at Mass General and Iwent to private practice and
reprimanded for not sellingenough product.
But for me to sell a product, Ijust really have to believe in
it.
(02:42):
And my personal story is that Iwas actually getting acne from
my hair care products.
It was a surprising cause.
It wasn't the only cause ofacne, but I'm prone to hormonal
acne and I would notice thatevery time when I would go to
the salon and get my hair done,my hair would look great but my
skin would break out.
And it took me a while torecognize this pattern, because
(03:03):
when you use a product, it oftenwon't break you out right away.
In my case, it can take five,six, sometimes, you know, even
seven days to cause a breakout.
And I started to have to makethis choice between my hair
looking good and my skin lookinggood.
You know, and as adermatologist, it's not really
great for your credibility Ifyou've got acne.
I mean, you know I don't thinkwe should be expected to have
perfect skin, but you know,having significant breakouts
(03:25):
wasn't great.
So I really made this kind ofaha moment that what we put on
our hair ends up on our skin andwe've got a bunch of science
actually showing that evenshampoo and conditioner you
rinse and forget about it, butyour skin actually doesn't.
So we've published in Journalof Drugs and Dermatology that
you know, hours after usingshampoo and conditioner it can
stay on your scalp, your face,your body, and so, as a
(03:47):
dermatologist, if you use aproduct and it can stay on your
skin for hours, to me that makesit part of a skincare regimen.
And so that's why I think ofhair care as skincare.
And you know, when we talkabout products leaving a residue
, that's not necessarily a badthing.
I mean my face moisturizer, Ithink, is about $100.
That's intentional residue.
(04:07):
But hair care residue on theskin often isn't skin friendly
and can clog pores, can haveirritants and allergens.
And then the second part Ithink about why hair care is
really important from thedermatologist lens is that your
hair follicles are literally themanufacturing plant for your
hair and they live in your scalp, which is skin.
(04:30):
So optimizing the health ofyour scalp really just makes
sense because that just supportshealthy hair follicles and
healthy hair growth.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, that's a really good point Because that's kind
of like you think of your, youknow your scalp.
You go almost like if your hairfollicles are growing,
something like that's your soil,you know you want good soil,
right, if you're going to have afruitful garden, and so if
we're not taking good care ofthat scalp skin, nourishing
those hair follicles, makingsure they're healthy, how are we
going to have great hair, right?
So I think that's a great wayyou approach that, that because
it's one of the things I want tohighlight too.
(05:01):
You know people listen to ourpodcast may not realize.
You know, as dermatologists, wespecialize in hair conditions
and treatments of the scalp.
You know some people think, oh,I thought I just would ask my
you know, my salon artist or mybeautician those questions.
I didn't even think to come tomy dermatologist to get tips on
those things, and I think you'rereally highlighting how this is
important for us to address.
(05:22):
When people come in, you know,I think they always wonder you
know, what are just some basicrecommendations for hair care
routine, Like what type ofshampoo should I use or maybe
avoid?
Are there certain ingredientsthat I should look for, or do I
need a conditioner and are therecertain things I should be
looking at, because there's somany brands, obviously and we're
going to talk obviously aboutSeen but what are some general
(05:44):
guidelines you give people whenthey come in the office?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
I mean, I think the mostimportant and obviously I
created Seen because I thinkthat it's a real confidence
injustice that you should haveto compromise your skin's health
for your hair care.
But I think the most importantthing is a product that works
for your hair, scalp and skin,because your hair, scalp and
skin are really like their onesystem.
It's not possible to use a haircare product and not have it
(06:09):
get on your scalp and skin.
So you know, if you're luckyenough not to be acne prone, not
to have sensitive skin, scalpissues or eczema, you know, use
whatever you want.
That makes your hair look great.
But if you're like many of us,you know that have one of those
issues, like people with acnethat's my case you want to make
sure everything you use, head totoe, is non-comedogenic,
(06:31):
meaning won't clog pores.
So that's your skincare yourmakeup, your sunscreen, but also
your hair care.
And I think you know, for thosewho are sensitive skin or who
have eczema, also making surethat your hair care is free of
like irritants and certaincommon allergens is really
important, you know.
I think also, hair care regimenjust depends on your scalp type
(06:53):
and your hair type, andpeople's scalp may be dry,
naturally, or normal or oily,and part of that is genetics,
part of that is products that weuse, hormones, even stress can
influence that.
And then you know whether youhave got curly hair or straight
hair.
All of those factors influence.
You know what your hair careregimen is and people will ask
me well, how often should I washmy hair?
(07:14):
And there really isn't oneanswer that fits everyone for
that, but I will say it is.
There is a such a thing aswashing too little and not often
enough, like it is important towash your hair periodically.
For some people that may beevery day, for some people that
may be once a week or even lessoften.
(07:36):
But using dry shampoo or goinglike extended periods without
washing your hair, I think isn'toptimal for your scalp, because
you really do need to clean outthe follicles from your natural
sebum, from products.
And then you know, for mostpeople, conditioner is important
.
Not for everyone, it reallyjust is hydrating, anti-breakage
, anti-frizz.
(07:57):
But you know, I don't thinkhair care has to be complicated,
but a basic regimen of makingsure you wash your hair
periodically and, for mostpeople, a conditioner.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Are there any particular ingredients for
people that are looking atshampoos you recommend they
avoid?
And specifically, I think a lotof people come in.
They're like oh, do Idefinitely need to use a
sulfate-free shampoo?
I've heard sulfates they'reevil, they're bad.
I shouldn't be using anythingthat has that type of component
or ingredient in it.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Is that typically what you recommend or do you
feel like there's value in that?
Yeah, so I mean, I'm someonewho actually doesn't.
Really I think there's.
It's not always black and whitewith ingredients and I don't
really like to say this isalways bad.
So sulfates you know a shampoo,the base of it is a surfactant,
which is a cleansing agent,which is really actually meant
primarily to cleanse your scalp,which is another reason why it
makes sense for shampooscalp-less skin to be developed
(08:48):
by a dermatologist.
But sulfates are a bit harshand the reasons I would say to
go sulfate-free is if you havedry hair, dry scalp, dry skin,
sensitive skin or actually ifyou color your hair, sulfates
can cause color to fade quickly.
So in general, I'm a fan ofsulfate-free, but I don't think
(09:09):
that sulfates need to be avoidedfor everyone.
They can just be a bit dryingto the scalp and hair and again
cause color to fade.
They can be irritating as well.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And I think it's important to kind of back up
what you said too, like how thisdoesn't have to be so black and
white.
I think people are always toldone thing and they feel like
it's set in stone.
But you're right, there's a lotof shades of gray on what
ingredients people can use,because some people do tolerate
those ingredients OK, and thenother people know not a good
plan, like you mentioned,because of having dry scalp or
other issues, and sometimes I'mbiased, as much as you know.
(09:42):
I try to avoid some of you knowif it's sulfate free, sometimes
it's healthier, maybe for myhair if it's dry or breaking.
But I do love how that stufflathers.
I got to admit I am a lathergirl for shampoo, so it's one of
the things that sucks me into aproduct.
So we're going to talk aboutseeing in a moment and, like
gosh, do I have to give allthese things up to have good
hair care?
And I think what you'repointing out is no, not
(10:08):
necessarily at all.
And also how you'rehighlighting.
You know, I think this issomething that people come all
the time.
They say, well, I don't wash myhair every day.
I mean, that's, that's bad, Iwould never do that I don't know
every day.
I think you dispelling kind ofthat myth is really important
that for some people that fitsand it's not necessarily going
to do the harm that I thinkthat's been perpetuated out
there.
And again, if you're usingharsh products every day, maybe
(10:30):
a different story, but if you'reusing healthy products and
doing it appropriately, if it'sright for you, that might be
good.
So I like that you kind ofbrought that up as well.
Are there other some things youfeel like people think about
hair care that you feel like youknow, gosh, that's just not
really true.
That's a total myth that I'dlove to bust or really educate
people on what comes to yourmind when you kind of think of
those myth busters for hair care.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah, and Shannon, you said so many good things
that I'll get back to, but Ithink one of the myths is that
you wash your hair too often, itcan cause hair loss, and so you
know there's going to be signsif you're washing too often.
If you're over washing, yourscalp might start to feel dry
and irritated.
It's an interesting thing,though A dry scalp can also be,
(11:13):
you know, seborrheic dermatitis,which benefits from washing
more often.
But you know, you'll know ifyou're irritating your scalp and
washing it too often.
But I think the idea that ifyou wash your hair every day,
that it can cause hair loss is amyth that is worth dispelling.
It's normal to lose, you know,50, even up to a hundred hairs a
day.
The hair goes through itsnatural cycle, so I think that's
(11:35):
that's a big one.
I think another myth is that ahair care regimen has to be
complicated.
You know, even though I own ahair care line, like I'm, I'm a
minimalist with products ingeneral, and I think it's about
using the right products, notmore products.
I think often people might usecertain products and it creates
an issue Like, let's say, you'reusing hair care products that
are irritating your scalp and sothen you're putting products on
(11:58):
to try and you know, fix thatlike this cycle, and that
happens in skincare.
You know a lot where you knowsomeone may use a product that's
causing them to break out orhave irritants or allergens and
then putting more products on.
So I think another myth is thatit has to be complicated.
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Really good points, because I do think people come
in and automatically assume whatyou just mentioned, you know,
and talking about that, thatthey I don't know, it's just
these things that getperpetuated and places like this
.
You know, social media andpeople have heard these things
and is it really true.
So I love that we're kind ofaddressing this as well.
So, in general, for just scalphealth, because I think that's
what we're talking about, youknow, I think shampoo, people
(12:35):
think, oh, I'm just washing myhair.
But you know, really educatethem.
I washing that scalp and reallycleaning that area out and
cleaning out the hair follicles.
What are some general like tipsor steps that you recommend,
you know from anyone?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
no-transcript.
Yeah, absolutely, I thinknumber one is just making sure
that you wash your hair at somefrequency.
You are aggravating thefollicles.
That can affect follicle healthand hair health.
So, you know, just making surethat you're washing at a
(13:23):
frequency that's right for you.
You know, I do thinkconditioner is beneficial
because it can help seal thecuticle, reduce frizz, reduce
breakage for most people andjust making sure that your hair
care regimen is the rightregimen for your hair and also
for your skin.
So there's, you know, all kindsof different hair care regimens
, depending on if your hair isdry, if it's, you know, if it's
(13:47):
curly, if it's oily.
So you know, it's hard to giveone recommendation for everyone,
but I think again, I'm I'm afan of just keeping it simple,
using products that you know arefor your hair type, respect
your scalp and and your skin.
I do want to go back to I likewhat you said about, like the,
(14:10):
the not having to compromise,you know, with the sulfate free,
and and I think you can getproducts, actually that foam
that are, that are sulfate free.
But I'm I'm the same as you,even though I know, as a
dermatologist, that if it's notfoaming it's still working.
I don't like it.
And with Seen we have scentedproducts and we have
fragrance-free.
We offer a choice and I thinkit's also a lot about just
choice and what works for you.
(14:30):
I personally use our scentedproducts because for me that's a
big part of the hair experience.
I enjoy the scent in the shower.
My business partner andbrother-in-law will only use our
fragrance-free products and somany people will only use
fragrance-free.
But I think just having thechoice of a product that works
for you and another point that Iwould raise, because we were
talking about avoiding sulfatesand the potential irritation is
(14:53):
that everyone's skin scalp is,is, is is different and so
someone, let's say, withsensitive skin, may react.
One person may react tosulfates, one may not like it's
very individual.
Just because you have I meangenerally, if you have sensitive
skin, I would avoid sulfates.
But just the whole concept thatif you are sensitive, you know
(15:13):
what you react to could bedifferent compared to someone
else.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, and I think I like what you said.
You know and reiterating, youknow what you react to could be
different compared to someoneelse.
Yeah, and I think I like whatyou say.
You know and reiterating, youknow it's kind of to the
individual.
You know what works for youbecause there isn't a one size
fit all.
So I love that you have, youknow, opportunities for choice
in your product line, because Iam somebody as much as, yes, we
promote, you know, sometimesleaving that fragrance out or
going, you know, withoutfragrance or unscented or
fragrance free, or we recommendgentle products.
(15:39):
I got to admit, you know,sometimes, like I mentioned, I
it's psychological, there'ssomething about that lather that
I love, and so sometimes I havea little bit of tougher skin,
you know.
So I might be able to get awaywith doing something like that,
but somebody else may not.
So love that scene offers thatvariety.
So in our last line, a fewminutes here that we're going to
talk about, I want to reallyfind out what motivated you to
develop scene and can you touchupon, kind of, some of the
(16:01):
products you offer and how theymight benefit somebody for their
hair care routine?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
So you know, again, my storywas that I'm acne prone.
I'm 50.
I'm still acne prone, actually,which is great for product
development.
We're always.
We have a huge innovationpipeline, so always developing
new products.
But it was just this.
What I really think is aconfidence in justice, like the
fact that you could be doing allthe right things with your
skincare, seeing a dermatologistor not, but then undoing it
(16:28):
with your hair care without evenrealizing it.
To me it's like you know ifyou're going to eat a bag of
Oreos versus an organic salad,like know what you're doing.
And I'm just for some people,like their hair care can really
be wreaking havoc on their skinwithout them realizing it, and
in my case it was acne.
But we know that hair productscan contribute to scalp issues,
(16:49):
can contribute to eczema, flares, even to hair shedding.
So it really just motivated mebecause I just it felt like it
needed to happen.
Like once I realized thisconnection between hair care and
skincare, one of the firstthings that I did was actually
publish this study showing thathair products can leave a
residue on the skin for hoursand then do an acne study a
(17:09):
dermatologist graded acne studybecause I was curious, like you
know, how significant of this isit that hair care can affect
people with acne.
And it turns out in adermatologist graded study we
gave scene for eight weeks to 27patients and 70% of those with
body acne had improvement intheir skin and 52% with face
(17:30):
acne had improvement.
So it's a significant number ofpeople who are dealing with
acne who can have their hairproducts contribute.
And again, we're not sayingit's the cause of acne.
But if you're acne prone, whywould you bathe in pork,
clogging ingredients in theshower like on a daily basis,
without realizing it is reallythe key.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
And the same.
The same with eczema and thesame with sensitive skin.
So, again, everything seencomes either fragrance-free and
then a lot of our products alsocome scented.
It's really hard to find greatfragrance-free products that
people want to use, that giveyou that salon type experience.
All of our products are clean,vegan, color safe, have
(18:12):
anti-breakage, anti-frizzbenefits.
Fragrance-free is the NationalEczema Association's deal of
approval and I think somethingthat's unique about our
fragrance free products is thatwe have a whole line of products
.
So there's a conditioner, adeeper conditioner, a leave-in
conditioner, magic serum, youknow, blowout cream, just a
whole number of products.
And when I was talking aboutthe hair care regimen, the one
thing that I did want to mentionis I do think that anyone who
(18:35):
heat styles like don't forgetyour heat protectant, because
that's just really importantjust to keeping your hair
healthy, you know.
But just having being able tooffer good for skin hair care
that people actually want to useand love, just for the hair
experience has just been reallygratifying.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Wow, I mean I think you know you're really showing
how you know the relevance, youknow, I think, for our listeners
out there that have not reallythought about you know their
scalp care as a part of theirskincare and you're right that
contributing factor to acne whywould you even take the risk?
You know most of us we're notgoing to eat that chocolate but
there might even be a risk thata zit might pop up, so why even
(19:13):
introduce products?
But the connection that youmade, I think, for people to
understand that that's even apossibility, is fantastic.
And really what you highlightwith your products, the variety
of products.
You have the opportunity youknow not to add to other skin
conditions.
That approval with a eczemafoundation, you know seal of
approval that's fantastic.
And then you know also, too,that you can kind of have your
(19:34):
cake and eat it too.
For us Scented gals that wantto bring that on board and,
again, not everyone can get awaywith that.
But I want to just thank youfor coming on, iris.
This was fantastic just to goover how hair care truly is
skincare for our listeners outthere, if they want to find out
more about you or about sceneand your products, where can
they locate you online?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
yeah, absolutely, and thank you so much for the
opportunity.
Helloscenecom is our website.
We're also sold in Ulta and ourInstagram is at Scene Skin and
Hair and you know, we're just,we're thrilled.
We get feedback all the timeabout Scene actually being
life-changing, game-changing,like people who thought all
along their skin was the problemwhen it was their hair care.
(20:12):
Again, this is not the cure forall skin conditions, but I
think there's millions of peoplewho don't realize the impact of
their hair care on their skinand I love what you said about,
you know, just the no compromise, because it took us over four
years to launch.
I didn't want the products to beanything other than what people
would want to use.
We intentionally don't screamacne, eczema, sensitive skin on
(20:33):
the products.
They are products that lookbeautiful in the shower.
They just look like elevated,you know, smarter products that
are dermatologists developed.
Why wouldn't a dermatologist,you know, in retrospect develop
hair care that's good for thescalp and skin too?
I wish I had you seen as ateenager when I was slathering
my face in benzoyl peroxide andeverything I could find to try
(20:56):
and curb the breakouts.
But yeah, it's been really it'sbeen exciting to just get the
feedback and the support fromdermatologists, it's been
amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, you're so right and we're all lucky that
scene's here now so we can allexperiment with it, and I've had
the opportunity to try it aswell, and it's fantastic.
No, that's not a paidendorsement.
If people are asking LoveIris's products, they're
fantastic, so definitely checkthem out, and thank you so much
for joining us and stay tunedfor the next episode of Dermot
Trotter.
Don't Swear About Skin Care.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Thanks for listening to Dermot Trotter.
For more about skin care, visitDermotTrottercom.
Don't forget to subscribe,leave a review and share this
podcast with anyone who needs alittle skincare sanity.
Until next time, stay skinsmart.
Welcome to Dermot Trotter Don't Swear About Skin
Care where host Dr Shannon CTrotter, a board certified
dermatologist, sits down withfellow dermatologists and
skincare experts to separatefact from fiction and simplify
skincare.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Let's get started, welcome to the Dermot Trotter
Don't Swear About Skin Carepodcast.
Today we're gonna tackle a topicthat everyone wants to know
more about your hair and how dowe care about it and I've got a
great expert on today to talkmore with you and get all those
details that you're dying toknow.
So I have Dr Iris Rubin, thefounder of Scene, a patented,
(00:38):
award-winning good for skin haircare line that's science-backed
and mission-driven, and she'shere today to talk with us more.
She received her undergraduatedegree with honors from Stanford
University and her medicaldegree from Harvard Medical
School.
She did her dermatologyresidency at the University of
Chicago and Harvard MedicalSchool and served as academic
chief resident at Harvard.
She completed a laserfellowship at Massachusetts
(01:00):
General Hospital and WellmanCenter for Photomedicine Prior
to launching SANE.
Dr Rubin's previous positionsincluded medical director of the
Dermatologic and Vascular LaserSurgery Program at Children's
National Medical Center in DCand dermatologist in
Massachusetts General Hospitaland a faculty member at Harvard
Medical School.
And now we're so lucky to haveher here on the podcast today to
(01:21):
talk about hair care.
Welcome to the podcast, drRubin.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you so much.
Please call me Arise, and Ihope you don't mind, dr Trotter,
if I call you Shannon, but yeahit's exciting to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm a fan of what you're doing and it's a real
privilege.
Well, thank you, arise.
I really appreciate thatbecause you know, as we were
talking before getting on thispodcast, I feel like hair care
sometimes gets missed.
You know we talk a lot aboutskincare.
You know the title this haircare is skincare that we need to
dive in a little bit more andreally educate the public on
what's good for their hair,because there's a lot of
information out there you knowgood but also some bad
information, so we're going totalk more about that so we can
(01:59):
really give everyone out there agood idea of how to take care
of their hair, because it's justimportant as anything else on
your skin.
Absolutely.
I want to find out if you wouldkind of just briefly talk about
how you perceive or think about, like hair and scalp, how do
you think about it as a part ofskincare and what motivated you
to think you know a little bitmore about it and get into
(02:20):
developing this product line.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I actually never in a millionyears thought I would launch a
product line.
I was once called in at aprivate practice I worked at
after moving from Boston.
I was at Mass General and Iwent to private practice and
reprimanded for not sellingenough product.
But for me to sell a product, Ijust really have to believe in
it.
(02:42):
And my personal story is that Iwas actually getting acne from
my hair care products.
It was a surprising cause.
It wasn't the only cause ofacne, but I'm prone to hormonal
acne and I would notice thatevery time when I would go to
the salon and get my hair done,my hair would look great but my
skin would break out.
And it took me a while torecognize this pattern, because
(03:03):
when you use a product, it oftenwon't break you out right away.
In my case, it can take five,six, sometimes, you know, even
seven days to cause a breakout.
And I started to have to makethis choice between my hair
looking good and my skin lookinggood.
You know, and as adermatologist, it's not really
great for your credibility Ifyou've got acne.
I mean, you know I don't thinkwe should be expected to have
perfect skin, but you know,having significant breakouts
(03:25):
wasn't great.
So I really made this kind ofaha moment that what we put on
our hair ends up on our skin andwe've got a bunch of science
actually showing that evenshampoo and conditioner you
rinse and forget about it, butyour skin actually doesn't.
So we've published in Journalof Drugs and Dermatology that
you know, hours after usingshampoo and conditioner it can
stay on your scalp, your face,your body, and so, as a
(03:47):
dermatologist, if you use aproduct and it can stay on your
skin for hours, to me that makesit part of a skincare regimen.
And so that's why I think ofhair care as skincare.
And you know, when we talkabout products leaving a residue
, that's not necessarily a badthing.
I mean my face moisturizer, Ithink, is about $100.
That's intentional residue.
(04:07):
But hair care residue on theskin often isn't skin friendly
and can clog pores, can haveirritants and allergens.
And then the second part Ithink about why hair care is
really important from thedermatologist lens is that your
hair follicles are literally themanufacturing plant for your
hair and they live in your scalp, which is skin.
(04:30):
So optimizing the health ofyour scalp really just makes
sense because that just supportshealthy hair follicles and
healthy hair growth.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, that's a really good point Because that's kind
of like you think of your, youknow your scalp.
You go almost like if your hairfollicles are growing,
something like that's your soil,you know you want good soil,
right, if you're going to have afruitful garden, and so if
we're not taking good care ofthat scalp skin, nourishing
those hair follicles, makingsure they're healthy, how are we
going to have great hair, right?
So I think that's a great wayyou approach that, that because
it's one of the things I want tohighlight too.
(05:01):
You know people listen to ourpodcast may not realize.
You know, as dermatologists, wespecialize in hair conditions
and treatments of the scalp.
You know some people think, oh,I thought I just would ask my
you know, my salon artist or mybeautician those questions.
I didn't even think to come tomy dermatologist to get tips on
those things, and I think you'rereally highlighting how this is
important for us to address.
(05:22):
When people come in, you know,I think they always wonder you
know, what are just some basicrecommendations for hair care
routine, Like what type ofshampoo should I use or maybe
avoid?
Are there certain ingredientsthat I should look for, or do I
need a conditioner and are therecertain things I should be
looking at, because there's somany brands, obviously and we're
going to talk obviously aboutSeen but what are some general
(05:44):
guidelines you give people whenthey come in the office?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
I mean, I think the mostimportant and obviously I
created Seen because I thinkthat it's a real confidence
injustice that you should haveto compromise your skin's health
for your hair care.
But I think the most importantthing is a product that works
for your hair, scalp and skin,because your hair, scalp and
skin are really like their onesystem.
It's not possible to use a haircare product and not have it
(06:09):
get on your scalp and skin.
So you know, if you're luckyenough not to be acne prone, not
to have sensitive skin, scalpissues or eczema, you know, use
whatever you want.
That makes your hair look great.
But if you're like many of us,you know that have one of those
issues, like people with acnethat's my case you want to make
sure everything you use, head totoe, is non-comedogenic,
(06:31):
meaning won't clog pores.
So that's your skincare yourmakeup, your sunscreen, but also
your hair care.
And I think you know, for thosewho are sensitive skin or who
have eczema, also making surethat your hair care is free of
like irritants and certaincommon allergens is really
important, you know.
I think also, hair care regimenjust depends on your scalp type
(06:53):
and your hair type, andpeople's scalp may be dry,
naturally, or normal or oily,and part of that is genetics,
part of that is products that weuse, hormones, even stress can
influence that.
And then you know whether youhave got curly hair or straight
hair.
All of those factors influence.
You know what your hair careregimen is and people will ask
me well, how often should I washmy hair?
(07:14):
And there really isn't oneanswer that fits everyone for
that, but I will say it is.
There is a such a thing aswashing too little and not often
enough, like it is important towash your hair periodically.
For some people that may beevery day, for some people that
may be once a week or even lessoften.
(07:36):
But using dry shampoo or goinglike extended periods without
washing your hair, I think isn'toptimal for your scalp, because
you really do need to clean outthe follicles from your natural
sebum, from products.
And then you know, for mostpeople, conditioner is important
.
Not for everyone, it reallyjust is hydrating, anti-breakage
, anti-frizz.
(07:57):
But you know, I don't thinkhair care has to be complicated,
but a basic regimen of makingsure you wash your hair
periodically and, for mostpeople, a conditioner.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Are there any particular ingredients for
people that are looking atshampoos you recommend they
avoid?
And specifically, I think a lotof people come in.
They're like oh, do Idefinitely need to use a
sulfate-free shampoo?
I've heard sulfates they'reevil, they're bad.
I shouldn't be using anythingthat has that type of component
or ingredient in it.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Is that typically what you recommend or do you
feel like there's value in that?
Yeah, so I mean, I'm someonewho actually doesn't.
Really I think there's.
It's not always black and whitewith ingredients and I don't
really like to say this isalways bad.
So sulfates you know a shampoo,the base of it is a surfactant,
which is a cleansing agent,which is really actually meant
primarily to cleanse your scalp,which is another reason why it
makes sense for shampooscalp-less skin to be developed
(08:48):
by a dermatologist.
But sulfates are a bit harshand the reasons I would say to
go sulfate-free is if you havedry hair, dry scalp, dry skin,
sensitive skin or actually ifyou color your hair, sulfates
can cause color to fade quickly.
So in general, I'm a fan ofsulfate-free, but I don't think
(09:09):
that sulfates need to be avoidedfor everyone.
They can just be a bit dryingto the scalp and hair and again
cause color to fade.
They can be irritating as well.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And I think it's important to kind of back up
what you said too, like how thisdoesn't have to be so black and
white.
I think people are always toldone thing and they feel like
it's set in stone.
But you're right, there's a lotof shades of gray on what
ingredients people can use,because some people do tolerate
those ingredients OK, and thenother people know not a good
plan, like you mentioned,because of having dry scalp or
other issues, and sometimes I'mbiased, as much as you know.
(09:42):
I try to avoid some of you knowif it's sulfate free, sometimes
it's healthier, maybe for myhair if it's dry or breaking.
But I do love how that stufflathers.
I got to admit I am a lathergirl for shampoo, so it's one of
the things that sucks me into aproduct.
So we're going to talk aboutseeing in a moment and, like
gosh, do I have to give allthese things up to have good
hair care?
And I think what you'repointing out is no, not
(10:08):
necessarily at all.
And also how you'rehighlighting.
You know, I think this issomething that people come all
the time.
They say, well, I don't wash myhair every day.
I mean, that's, that's bad, Iwould never do that I don't know
every day.
I think you dispelling kind ofthat myth is really important
that for some people that fitsand it's not necessarily going
to do the harm that I thinkthat's been perpetuated out
there.
And again, if you're usingharsh products every day, maybe
(10:30):
a different story, but if you'reusing healthy products and
doing it appropriately, if it'sright for you, that might be
good.
So I like that you kind ofbrought that up as well.
Are there other some things youfeel like people think about
hair care that you feel like youknow, gosh, that's just not
really true.
That's a total myth that I'dlove to bust or really educate
people on what comes to yourmind when you kind of think of
those myth busters for hair care.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah, and Shannon, you said so many good things
that I'll get back to, but Ithink one of the myths is that
you wash your hair too often, itcan cause hair loss, and so you
know there's going to be signsif you're washing too often.
If you're over washing, yourscalp might start to feel dry
and irritated.
It's an interesting thing,though A dry scalp can also be,
(11:13):
you know, seborrheic dermatitis,which benefits from washing
more often.
But you know, you'll know ifyou're irritating your scalp and
washing it too often.
But I think the idea that ifyou wash your hair every day,
that it can cause hair loss is amyth that is worth dispelling.
It's normal to lose, you know,50, even up to a hundred hairs a
day.
The hair goes through itsnatural cycle, so I think that's
(11:35):
that's a big one.
I think another myth is that ahair care regimen has to be
complicated.
You know, even though I own ahair care line, like I'm, I'm a
minimalist with products ingeneral, and I think it's about
using the right products, notmore products.
I think often people might usecertain products and it creates
an issue Like, let's say, you'reusing hair care products that
are irritating your scalp and sothen you're putting products on
(11:58):
to try and you know, fix thatlike this cycle, and that
happens in skincare.
You know a lot where you knowsomeone may use a product that's
causing them to break out orhave irritants or allergens and
then putting more products on.
So I think another myth is thatit has to be complicated.
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Really good points, because I do think people come
in and automatically assume whatyou just mentioned, you know,
and talking about that, thatthey I don't know, it's just
these things that getperpetuated and places like this
.
You know, social media andpeople have heard these things
and is it really true.
So I love that we're kind ofaddressing this as well.
So, in general, for just scalphealth, because I think that's
what we're talking about, youknow, I think shampoo, people
(12:35):
think, oh, I'm just washing myhair.
But you know, really educatethem.
I washing that scalp and reallycleaning that area out and
cleaning out the hair follicles.
What are some general like tipsor steps that you recommend,
you know from anyone?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
no-transcript.
Yeah, absolutely, I thinknumber one is just making sure
that you wash your hair at somefrequency.
You are aggravating thefollicles.
That can affect follicle healthand hair health.
So, you know, just making surethat you're washing at a
(13:23):
frequency that's right for you.
You know, I do thinkconditioner is beneficial
because it can help seal thecuticle, reduce frizz, reduce
breakage for most people andjust making sure that your hair
care regimen is the rightregimen for your hair and also
for your skin.
So there's, you know, all kindsof different hair care regimens
, depending on if your hair isdry, if it's, you know, if it's
(13:47):
curly, if it's oily.
So you know, it's hard to giveone recommendation for everyone,
but I think again, I'm I'm afan of just keeping it simple,
using products that you know arefor your hair type, respect
your scalp and and your skin.
I do want to go back to I likewhat you said about, like the,
(14:10):
the not having to compromise,you know, with the sulfate free,
and and I think you can getproducts, actually that foam
that are, that are sulfate free.
But I'm I'm the same as you,even though I know, as a
dermatologist, that if it's notfoaming it's still working.
I don't like it.
And with Seen we have scentedproducts and we have
fragrance-free.
We offer a choice and I thinkit's also a lot about just
choice and what works for you.
(14:30):
I personally use our scentedproducts because for me that's a
big part of the hair experience.
I enjoy the scent in the shower.
My business partner andbrother-in-law will only use our
fragrance-free products and somany people will only use
fragrance-free.
But I think just having thechoice of a product that works
for you and another point that Iwould raise, because we were
talking about avoiding sulfatesand the potential irritation is
(14:53):
that everyone's skin scalp is,is, is is different and so
someone, let's say, withsensitive skin, may react.
One person may react tosulfates, one may not like it's
very individual.
Just because you have I meangenerally, if you have sensitive
skin, I would avoid sulfates.
But just the whole concept thatif you are sensitive, you know
(15:13):
what you react to could bedifferent compared to someone
else.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, and I think I like what you said.
You know and reiterating, youknow what you react to could be
different compared to someoneelse.
Yeah, and I think I like whatyou say.
You know and reiterating, youknow it's kind of to the
individual.
You know what works for youbecause there isn't a one size
fit all.
So I love that you have, youknow, opportunities for choice
in your product line, because Iam somebody as much as, yes, we
promote, you know, sometimesleaving that fragrance out or
going, you know, withoutfragrance or unscented or
fragrance free, or we recommendgentle products.
(15:39):
I got to admit, you know,sometimes, like I mentioned, I
it's psychological, there'ssomething about that lather that
I love, and so sometimes I havea little bit of tougher skin,
you know.
So I might be able to get awaywith doing something like that,
but somebody else may not.
So love that scene offers thatvariety.
So in our last line, a fewminutes here that we're going to
talk about, I want to reallyfind out what motivated you to
develop scene and can you touchupon, kind of, some of the
(16:01):
products you offer and how theymight benefit somebody for their
hair care routine?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
So you know, again, my storywas that I'm acne prone.
I'm 50.
I'm still acne prone, actually,which is great for product
development.
We're always.
We have a huge innovationpipeline, so always developing
new products.
But it was just this.
What I really think is aconfidence in justice, like the
fact that you could be doing allthe right things with your
skincare, seeing a dermatologistor not, but then undoing it
(16:28):
with your hair care without evenrealizing it.
To me it's like you know ifyou're going to eat a bag of
Oreos versus an organic salad,like know what you're doing.
And I'm just for some people,like their hair care can really
be wreaking havoc on their skinwithout them realizing it, and
in my case it was acne.
But we know that hair productscan contribute to scalp issues,
(16:49):
can contribute to eczema, flares, even to hair shedding.
So it really just motivated mebecause I just it felt like it
needed to happen.
Like once I realized thisconnection between hair care and
skincare, one of the firstthings that I did was actually
publish this study showing thathair products can leave a
residue on the skin for hoursand then do an acne study a
(17:09):
dermatologist graded acne studybecause I was curious, like you
know, how significant of this isit that hair care can affect
people with acne.
And it turns out in adermatologist graded study we
gave scene for eight weeks to 27patients and 70% of those with
body acne had improvement intheir skin and 52% with face
(17:30):
acne had improvement.
So it's a significant number ofpeople who are dealing with
acne who can have their hairproducts contribute.
And again, we're not sayingit's the cause of acne.
But if you're acne prone, whywould you bathe in pork,
clogging ingredients in theshower like on a daily basis,
without realizing it is reallythe key.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
And the same.
The same with eczema and thesame with sensitive skin.
So, again, everything seencomes either fragrance-free and
then a lot of our products alsocome scented.
It's really hard to find greatfragrance-free products that
people want to use, that giveyou that salon type experience.
All of our products are clean,vegan, color safe, have
(18:12):
anti-breakage, anti-frizzbenefits.
Fragrance-free is the NationalEczema Association's deal of
approval and I think somethingthat's unique about our
fragrance free products is thatwe have a whole line of products
.
So there's a conditioner, adeeper conditioner, a leave-in
conditioner, magic serum, youknow, blowout cream, just a
whole number of products.
And when I was talking aboutthe hair care regimen, the one
thing that I did want to mentionis I do think that anyone who
(18:35):
heat styles like don't forgetyour heat protectant, because
that's just really importantjust to keeping your hair
healthy, you know.
But just having being able tooffer good for skin hair care
that people actually want to useand love, just for the hair
experience has just been reallygratifying.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Wow, I mean I think you know you're really showing
how you know the relevance, youknow, I think, for our listeners
out there that have not reallythought about you know their
scalp care as a part of theirskincare and you're right that
contributing factor to acne whywould you even take the risk?
You know most of us we're notgoing to eat that chocolate but
there might even be a risk thata zit might pop up, so why even
(19:13):
introduce products?
But the connection that youmade, I think, for people to
understand that that's even apossibility, is fantastic.
And really what you highlightwith your products, the variety
of products.
You have the opportunity youknow not to add to other skin
conditions.
That approval with a eczemafoundation, you know seal of
approval that's fantastic.
And then you know also, too,that you can kind of have your
(19:34):
cake and eat it too.
For us Scented gals that wantto bring that on board and,
again, not everyone can get awaywith that.
But I want to just thank youfor coming on, iris.
This was fantastic just to goover how hair care truly is
skincare for our listeners outthere, if they want to find out
more about you or about sceneand your products, where can
they locate you online?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
yeah, absolutely, and thank you so much for the
opportunity.
Helloscenecom is our website.
We're also sold in Ulta and ourInstagram is at Scene Skin and
Hair and you know, we're just,we're thrilled.
We get feedback all the timeabout Scene actually being
life-changing, game-changing,like people who thought all
along their skin was the problemwhen it was their hair care.
(20:12):
Again, this is not the cure forall skin conditions, but I
think there's millions of peoplewho don't realize the impact of
their hair care on their skinand I love what you said about,
you know, just the no compromise, because it took us over four
years to launch.
I didn't want the products to beanything other than what people
would want to use.
We intentionally don't screamacne, eczema, sensitive skin on
(20:33):
the products.
They are products that lookbeautiful in the shower.
They just look like elevated,you know, smarter products that
are dermatologists developed.
Why wouldn't a dermatologist,you know, in retrospect develop
hair care that's good for thescalp and skin too?
I wish I had you seen as ateenager when I was slathering
my face in benzoyl peroxide andeverything I could find to try
(20:56):
and curb the breakouts.
But yeah, it's been really it'sbeen exciting to just get the
feedback and the support fromdermatologists, it's been
amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, you're so right and we're all lucky that
scene's here now so we can allexperiment with it, and I've had
the opportunity to try it aswell, and it's fantastic.
No, that's not a paidendorsement.
If people are asking LoveIris's products, they're
fantastic, so definitely checkthem out, and thank you so much
for joining us and stay tunedfor the next episode of Dermot
Trotter.
Don't Swear About Skin Care.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Thanks for listening to Dermot Trotter.
For more about skin care, visitDermotTrottercom.
Don't forget to subscribe,leave a review and share this
podcast with anyone who needs alittle skincare sanity.
Until next time, stay skinsmart.
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