December 2, 2025 • 24 mins
Your best hair day starts where most routines stop: the scalp. In this episode, we break down the habits that truly help with flakes, itch, oil, and shedding. Dr. Shannon Trotter and Erica Ramos, DMSc, PA-C, unpack how inflammation and buildup disrupt growth and comfort, then lay out practical steps you can start using tonight. From medicated shampoo “masking” to washing frequency by scalp type, you’ll learn techniques that actually work without sacrificing softness or shine.
We also dive into scalp sun protection, double cleansing, and exfoliation for product lovers and dry shampoo devotees. You’ll hear when persistent itch signals conditions like seborrheic dermatitis or psoriasis, which treatments to reach for, and how newer options like JAK inhibitors fit into care under medical guidance. If you want stronger hair and a calmer, clearer scalp, consider this your go-to guide.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Frequency of washing, like you mentioned.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
I think a lot of people think that it's it's a
terrible thing if younecessarily wash.
I tell people all the time, youwould never go five days without
washing your body.
Why are you doing that to yourscalp?
That definitely has changed thegame for me and my skin because
I'm kind of a burn even though Ihave sunscreen on.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Welcome to Dermot Trotter, Don't Swear About Skin
Care, where host Dr.
Shannon C.
Trotter, a board-certifieddermatologist, sits down with
fellow dermatologists andskincare experts to separate
fact from fiction and simplifyskincare.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Welcome to the Dermotrotter, Don't Swear About
Skin Care Podcast.
We have an exciting topic heretoday.
We're going to talk about thescalp because that's what so
many people want to know is howdo I take care of my scalp?
And it's all the rage now.
So we're going to talk abouttips and tricks you can do to
have a healthy scalp.
So in essence, you have healthyhair as well.
I have a special guest heretoday, Erica Ramos.
She's a doctor of medicalscience and a certified
(00:58):
dermatology physician associatewith over 21 years of clinical
experience.
And she actually has a productdedicated to improving scalp
care, which we'll talk about atthe end.
But welcome to the podcast.
It's nice to have you here,Erica.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
So happy to be here, Dr.
Trotter.
Truly honored to be on yourpodcast.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
Well, you deal with scalp a lot, so much so it
inspired you to develop aproduct, which we'll get to, but
I really just want to talk aboutthis trend.
You know, that we're seeing alot of people are focusing on
scalp care as much as they thinkof skincare.
Why do you think that's becomingso popular now?
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
You know, I was thinking about, I don't, I don't
know if it was the emergence ofhead spas because there's all
these head spas popping up andit's kind of like what came
first, the chicken or the egg,right?
Did the head spas come first andeverybody's caring about scalp
health now?
Or um, you know, has there thisthere's this increase in talk
about it on social media?
Um, people are really caringabout the ingredients they put
(01:51):
on their skin now.
And so I don't know exactly whatsparked it, but it's definitely
a fiery, fiery, fiery littletrend that um that's good.
It's good that people arefinally talking about the scalp.
I think it's not been aconversation.
A lot of my um patients willwash their skin every day and
(02:12):
care what they put on theirskin, but have no care in the
world what they're putting ontheir scalp.
And then they'll come in and askwhy they have hair loss or other
conditions.
And so I'm glad that it's atopic of conversation now.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Yeah, I think that's a good point you bring up.
The scalp has been a littleignored, but now it's catching
on.
And I agree with you, it's allover social media.
I think the focus on hair andhair health has led us to the
scalp.
I kind of think of the scalpsort of like, you know, soil, if
you will, and the hair kind ofgrows out of it like a plant
grows out of soil.
And if the soil is healthy andit's doing well, then you're
(02:46):
gonna have a great plant, justlike you're gonna have strong,
healthy hair.
And I think with hair loss beinga topic that a lot of people
want to address moreaggressively now, and then
you're right, people caringabout what they're putting on
their skin has drawn a lot ofattention to what we can do to
really improve the health of ourscalp.
And I think just having hairthere, people ignore it.
Um, my husband is completelybald.
He's he's definitely a guy thatwe focus on scalp health.
(03:10):
And I think one of the things Italk with him, you know, for
scalp care is just the productsand what he should be putting on
it.
So I wanted to ask how you talkabout sort of do's and don'ts
with scalp care.
What is your recommendationsthat you give patients?
SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
Well, I think the majority of patients that we
have this conversation with cometo us and they have some sort of
flake or scale or itch.
So that's when the conversationcomes up the most.
And um, for them, you know, alot of them are frustrated
because they've tried everysingle over-the-counter option.
Maybe they've been to anotherdermatologist and they've also
(03:45):
had the couple of prescriptionsthat we've had traditionally.
And they just they'refrustrated.
And I really tell my patientslook, the the ingredients, all
these common ingredients that wehave, it's a it's a same theme
throughout every shampooconditioner.
It's just one of a fewingredients.
They all work.
It's just, I tell my patients,you're probably not leaving it
(04:08):
on long enough.
If I imagine myself in a shower,I'm going to rub my shampoo in,
and I'm literally next movegoing to turn around and rinse
it right back out.
And at that point, your medicinehasn't had a chance to do
anything.
It's just going down the drain.
So I kind of encourage mypatients to wear their medicated
shampoos as a mask and wear itfor about 10 minutes before they
(04:30):
even get in the shower.
And that way it's had time tosit there before they actually
get in and rinse it off.
SPEAKER_02 (04:37):
Yeah, I like that because we're all in a rush,
right?
I feel like showeringunfortunately becomes more
utilitarian for all of us as weget busier.
You kind of need to get in andout, clean, and get on your way.
And for scalp care, you know,you're mentioning this contact
time.
You know, I think it does taketime, you know, to treat the
scalp, especially if you have acondition like sebrate
dermatitis, or you mentionedkind of that flake or that itch
(04:58):
or struggling with dandruff.
And I just think people, likeyou said, they rush it, you
know, kind of in and out anddon't realize there's some
benefits to kind of going afterthe scalp and treating it.
And like you mentioned before,you know, the hair loss
component, when people have someof that inflammation, like you
mentioned, you know, all formsof hair loss, we know can be
linked back to some form ofinflammation.
I don't think people realizethey could have something, you
(05:20):
know, as dandruff that's prettysignificant or sebrec dermatitis
and truly have hair loss linkedto that.
Have you seen that in yourpractice as well with people
just so inflamed?
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, you can tell thedifference um between, I mean,
there's light, flaky dandruff,and a lot of times that's not
gonna have that erythema andinflammation of the skin, but
you start piling on a little bitmore of that yellow, greasy
scale, and you're gonna see thatunderlying redness and that
inflammation that's being causedon the scalp.
(05:51):
And it makes sense that our haircan't really grow very well in a
situation where there's all thatinflammation.
Our body's just not gonnasupport a good healthy growth if
it feels like it's under attack.
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
Yeah, and I know another topic a lot of people
like to talk about is doublecleansing, you know,
specifically for the face.
We think of that where you mightcleanse with like an oil-based
cleanser, a micellar water, takeoff that makeup sunscreen, then
do your gentle cleanser, go intoyour routine.
I really challenge people tothink about double cleansing for
the scalp.
I think there's some true valuein doing that, especially
nowadays.
I don't know about everyone outthere, but I'm busy, work
(06:27):
full-time.
I have three small children,love to do all kinds of extra
things, including the podcast.
And so there are just multipledays where I don't shampoo.
So I am one of those folks usingdry shampoo or other products to
kind of mask, you know, sort ofwhat I've been doing to my hair.
Plus, I damage my hair, diet,heat, you know, instruments, all
the things I do to kind oftorture it.
That I feel like when I go toshampoo, cleansing first with
(06:50):
one of those medicated shampoosyou've mentioned, whether it has
Brithrone zinc in it or maybesalicylic acid, can definitely
be helpful before even goinginto that regular shampoo
routine.
Have you ever recommended thatto patients or found it to be
helpful as well?
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Yeah, I do.
I because a lot of people don'tlove the medicated shampoos.
And you know, it's not great forcolored hair.
They're a little bit drying tothe hair, they're great for our
scalp, but nobody really getsthat, you know, great feeling of
I just had the most fantasticshampoo and conditioner by using
their medicated shampoos.
(07:24):
And so that's again, well, whereI'll tell people, hey, think of
this more as a mask.
And then you can get in theshower and you can literally use
whatever shampoo conditioner youlove because you've already
treated your scalp by the timeyou get in there.
So I will tell people to dothat.
Um and people that are um sorry,extending time between washes.
(07:45):
Um, you know, I've seen a lot ofsocial media supporting um using
like a glycolic or a salicylicon the scalp before you wash.
So I've seen that trend as well.
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
Yeah, I think that exfoliation for the scalp is
helpful for people like myselfthat do uh get that buildup,
whether it's product or simplyoil in the scalp or just a
little bit of those flakes,doing like a pretreatment with a
salicylic acid or glycolic acidand leaving it on, just like you
talk about, you know, beforeshampooing out, maybe you know,
10, 15 minutes beforehand canreally help get that stuff off
(08:19):
the scalp.
And I like what you mentionedtoo, that you said, you know,
focus on the scalp.
And I think that's just adifferent mindset to make people
change their mind, right?
That we think of shampoo forhair, but when we're
recommending these medicatedshampoos, we're really talking
about scalp care, not reallyfocusing on using them on the
hair, like you mentioned.
So great tip.
I like how you mentioned thatthat, you know, use that for
(08:39):
your scalp and then follow withyou know traditional shampoo or
conditioner that you actuallylove that's good for the health
of your actual hair.
And that's that's a tip I loveto share too when I talk with
patients about it.
And also the frequency ofwashing, like you mentioned.
I think a lot of people thinkthat it's it's a terrible thing
if you necessarily wash everyday.
(09:00):
And I like to tell patients, youknow what, you wash based on
your individual scalp and hairneeds.
Some people that could be aneveryday, some people that could
be every few weeks or so.
Uh, do you tend to walk patientsthrough that too?
Because I feel like that's alittle bit of a misconception
that you can't do it every daybecause you're totally going to
destroy the hair.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
Yeah, and I also think it depends on if you're um
if you have tightly coiled hairor, you know, it really depends
on the hair type.
The scalp type, like you said,if somebody's getting super
oily, it makes sense that theymay actually wash every single
day.
If somebody has really dry scalpand tightly coiled hair, they
(09:37):
don't necessarily want to washevery day.
And sometimes it's a battle foreven to get them to wash their
hair once a month.
Um, so but we just know that wecan't make our scalp better if
we're not washing it a littlebit more frequently.
And so I tell people all thetime, you would never go five
days without washing your body.
(09:59):
Why are you doing that to yourscalp?
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:01):
Yeah.
And I think it's just you kindof individualize it to the
patient, like you said, becausesome people are lucky they can
get away with quite a bit oftime without having to wash.
And unfortunately, if you havesomething like separate
dermatitis or suffer withdandruff, bumping up that
frequency can definitely make adifference.
And I always tell patients too,you know, if you're using good
quality, you know, hairproducts, you know, that are
sulfate-free, that can behydrating or moisturizing, then
(10:25):
if you're washing the hair moreoften, typically you're not
going to see damage from that.
But you do have to keep in mindthe aftermath, etopia washing.
If every time you wash, you haveto use a straight iron or a flat
iron or a curling iron or somesort of heat device.
Unfortunately, yes, then thatcan add up to the downside of
washing more frequently becauseyou're getting additional damage
(10:46):
just because of what you have todo after all the washing.
So it can be a double-edgedsword, I know, with patients
too.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
So much stuff we do, like you said, to our hair.
So definitely really depends onall the layers of everything
that we do that um affects thehealth of our hair and our
scalp.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
So we talked a little bit about kind of general
scalp care, focusing it more asa part of skincare, you know,
using good products, adjustingwashing based on your individual
scalp needs.
What about some protection?
Because I mentioned early on, myhusband completely bald, so I'm
after him all the time.
How do you talk with patientsabout, you know, some
protection?
Do you have particularrecommendations you like to make
(11:24):
on products you think that workreally well for scalp skin?
Or do you typically justrecommend hats?
Or how do you go about that?
Because that can be a nuisanceto protect the scalp, especially
if you have hair.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
Yeah, physical blockers like hats.
A lot of people will get thesehats though that have the big
holes in them, and you're, youknow, we're not protecting very
much with that.
So we talk about UPF protectionof clothing, and um, it really
comes down to the tightness ofthe weave and what's litting
those UV rays through through.
So if we have a very looseweave, of course, we're still
(11:55):
going to kind of get someeffects of the sun on our scalp.
Um, so definitely hats.
And, you know, I'm I'm one ofthese people who suffered from
pretty thin, fine hair my wholelife, and I cannot count how
many times I've actually burnedmy scalp throughout my lifetime
before getting into Derm.
And so definitely, I think inthe beginning, like years ago,
(12:19):
it was really hard to findsomething that you could protect
your scalp with.
But there have been some newerproducts that can have come out.
Uh, like Supergoop has a poof, apowder poof that is sunscreen.
Um, so, or some of the othersprays, though I don't know,
they're they're a little bitgreasy in the way that they go
(12:40):
on.
If you're using a traditionalaerosol spray that you're is
meant for your skin, sometimesthat's gonna affect how your
hair looks.
So I'd probably go with more oflike a powder, a powdered zinc
or um something like that, likethe um super goop poof.
SPEAKER_02 (12:57):
Yeah, I get you're right, because just if you have
hair, the challenge is gettingthrough all of that.
But the part line is definitelywhere I think most people forget
or miss.
It's one of those you know spotsI feel like always, you know,
the tops of your feet, the rimsof your ears, and always the
scalp seem to be the places weforget to put.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
We always forget our ears.
What do you recommend for thescalp?
What do you tell your patientsto use for the scalp?
SPEAKER_02 (13:17):
I typically you know recommend using similar to what
you recommend, things that aregoing to be good that don't
weigh the hair down.
And that's variable foreveryone.
So if they can do a spray andit's pretty drying, I'll tell
them a spray is fine.
The biggest piece is just a niceeven coating.
So, downside with some of thepowder, so even how they apply
it, if they're not appliedevenly, sometimes in the actual
coverage, and it's really allabout user air, right?
(13:39):
To a degree, are they getting itwhere they need to go?
So I think just making sure ifthey're not doing it themselves,
somebody's helping them to makesure even application is going
on there.
And I think too, you know, someof the other sunscreens, it's
just if they're dry touch, evenif they're liquid, some of them
will absorb well into the scalp.
But if you've got hair there,inevitably people are going to
get some on that hair.
And and hopefully it's not toomuch of a distraction.
(14:00):
They're going to the beach,they're doing other things, that
they don't mind if the hair's alittle mess.
And if they do, I would reallypush them to do the physical
blockade, like you mentioned.
Um, you know, try to avoid hatsthat maybe do have that loose
weave, sort of the tighterweave, and just do the physical
blockade if they don't even wantto mess with sunscreen up there.
But it's hard to get people towear hats.
My hat, you know, my husbandagain, not a hat wearer, and
he's got that entire areaexposed.
(14:22):
So it's something that peoplecan struggle with because
unfortunately, if you got hair,there's just no great way to
avoid some of the irritationfactor that that sunscreen may
give to your hair or weigh itdown and be an inconvenience.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
The other thing I worry about with the powder,
too, is that um, you know, likeyou said, if you're at the
beach, you're going in thewater, um, I don't know if we're
gonna get that um, you know, Idon't think that it says water
resistant, water, you know,sweat resistant.
And so if it gets rinsed off inthe ocean, you may have to do a
little bit more reapply withthat type of sunscreen.
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
You're exactly right, which is why I tend to
just go back to traditional, youknow, the sprays if they can get
it up there, if it's you knowliquid enough and just deal with
the hair, you know, issues thatcome with it, or obviously if
they can get a lotion orsomething else up, or if they're
willing to wear a hat.
But if you're going under thewater, it's gonna be a challenge
to keep a hat on.
And you're right, the powdersjust tend to wash off.
So not great if you're gonna bedoing water work or if you sweat
(15:15):
a tremendous amount.
Unfortunately, scalp can be asweaty area for a lot of us too,
for some protection.
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
You know, another thing um is um that I recommend
and I actually personally usewhen I go to the beach is Helio
Care.
Um, or you know, there's someother brands that are popping up
around that.
Um, but that definitely haschanged the game for me and my
skin because I'm kind of a burn,even though I have sunscreen on
um type of skin tone.
(15:41):
And uh now that I've startedusing helio care, I don't burn.
And I'm, you know, I'm able toget that every two-hour
reapplication that we need forthe sunscreen, but it's
definitely changed my opinion onbeing able to be out at the
beach all day long and not getburned.
SPEAKER_02 (15:59):
Yeah, I think you know the polypodium and helio
care, some of the other productsthat have it great add in to
sort of enhance your sunprotection.
Like you said, use it inaddition to your sunscreen and
sun protective clothing, notnecessarily a replacement for
it.
Definitely not a replacement.
Key takeaway, because everyone'ssunscreen and a pill, but we're
still not there yet.
So we we talked about this in alittle bit earlier about sort of
(16:22):
salicylic acid, glycolic acid,scalp exfoliation.
Do you recommend this to yourpatients on a regular basis or
before every type of shampoo?
Or I think you know that'sbecoming the rage, like you
mentioned, with just a lot ofyou know, social media, you
know, little blurbs about useglycolic acid, salicylic acid
for this, but can somebodyoverdo it too and create
(16:44):
problems on the scalp?
SPEAKER_01 (16:45):
Yeah, I think um there is a potential, although
they're really um very welltolerated um ingredients.
I think that there is apotential for irritation with
that if it's overused.
And so I think it really dependson if they do have dandruff,
sebderm, psoriasis, you know,how thick is that scale or that
(17:06):
plaque on maybe how they couldtolerate how often they could
tolerate it.
But I think anywhere, you know,sometimes in that range of how
thick the flake is, um, or ifthey're just using it for a um
clarifying, maybe just a coupletimes a week, if they've got
thick plaques of psoriasis,maybe they need to use it more
(17:27):
to on the four to five days aweek to actually get the benefit
of the medication and thatturnover of the skin to reduce
that plaque.
SPEAKER_02 (17:36):
Yeah, and I've I've come to be a little bit of a fan
of some of these scalp brushestoo.
You probably have seen theseadvertised kind of the rounded
silicone ones that you can kindof massage into the scalp.
Um, I like those with sometimesusing that with the glycolic
acid or silicylic acid to do alittle manual exfoliation,
although we tend to stay awayfrom mechanical exfoliation and
derm.
(17:57):
I know we tend to recommend moreof the chemical forms, but I
feel like those silicone ones,they're softer tips, they don't
cause much trauma to the skin,but they have the added bonus of
being pretty darn relaxing.
And then also I like to tellpatients you have a little bit
increased circulationpotentially going there to the
hair follicle, might help us alittle bit with hair loss if
patients are experiencing thatas well.
(18:18):
And one thing I didn't touchupon earlier that I wanted to
give you an opportunity to talkto talk about is just scalp
itch.
I think that that's something Ifeel like people come in all the
time, maybe even the absence ofactually seeing rash.
And I wanted to get yourthoughts on like how do you
address that or is thatdifferent than how you would
address anything else that we'vetalked about?
Because I think scalp itching isjust one of those things that
drives people batty.
They're coming in trying tofigure out how to, you know,
(18:39):
correct it.
But I think some of the tips youmentioned before could be a key
to actually helping patientswith that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
Yeah, I think if we get rid of some of the things
that are causing itch, theinflammation in the skin, then
maybe we reduce the itching alittle bit.
If there's an underlyingcondition, there are some
conditions that we really needto kind of think, they need to
be at least in the back of ourhead.
Are we missing something that'scausing itch?
Um, but if it's just kind ofrelated to scalp health and
(19:06):
scale and flakes and psoriasis,those things will be super
itchy.
Um, then reducing theinflammation can be really
helpful.
So in clinic, of course, we'vegot our topical steroids.
And um, there's also with thiscrossover of septum and
psoriasis, there's Zareve, whichentered the market as a foam,
(19:29):
which can also really help withitch as well.
So um, but some people will justhave that chronic itch, and we
may need to say, hey, is theresome sort of underlying eczema?
Do we need to maybe treat with,you know, was there full body
itching?
Can we use some of these othertools we have that really are
(19:51):
demonstrating great efficacy inreducing people's itch overall?
So there's the um injectablemedications and the jack
inhibitors and all this greatstuff that we have coming out
for itch in dermatology.
SPEAKER_02 (20:06):
So well, in addition to what we have to treat those
conditions, you've got a productcalled Restora Scalp that can be
used to help actually treat thescalp and different conditions
on it.
Tell me a little bit about itand when do you recommend it for
patients?
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
So I think that anybody that is wanting scalp
health and still loves to maybeextend their time between
washes, then restora scalp isthe dry shampoo for you.
You don't have to have dandruffand sebderm and psoriasis to use
this dry shampoo.
You could just use it as anexfoliative, clarifying dry
(20:43):
shampoo.
It does have some ingredients init.
We just talked about itch.
So it does have some ingredientsin it, um, the herbal remedies
that help with itch andanti-inflammation, and some that
help with a little tiny bit ofmoisture and detoxifying.
So there's some really coolherbal remedies in there that
(21:03):
have a little bit of a backingthrough medical research.
And um, so it really issomething that, like if you have
an itch, an itchy scalp, thenthose ingredients could help.
If you just want somethingthat's getting rid of dead skin
cell and promoting naturalturnover of skin cells so that
we can kind of offload thedebris around our hair
(21:24):
follicles, then it's a great dryshampoo.
Um, but definitely if you havedandruff, sebaric dermatitis, or
psoriasis, uh our activeingredient is salicylic acid,
which we've talked about acouple of times.
And so that's what's helpingwith that exfoliation, that
clarifying of the scalp, butalso is a known FDA trusted
(21:48):
ingredient for the treatment ofdandruff, sebaric dermatitis,
and psoriasis.
SPEAKER_02 (21:53):
Yeah, I think a lot of people will be familiar with
that because they've probablytried shampoos with salicylic
acid in it before, or maybe usedit to treat acne if they had
some breakouts.
So having it on something thatcan stay on the scalp, but I I
love the fact that sort of adouble duty type thing, you
know, I use dry shampoo like afiend.
I feel like sometimes I couldhave stock in dry shampoo and
you look at the money you mayspend.
(22:14):
But to have a dry shampoo thatalso has ingredients in it that
can promote health of the skin,the scalp, and then also maybe
reduce some of that buildup orhelp the skin cell turnover.
I mean, that can definitely be awin-win.
And I love products that do morethan one thing.
So I think that's wonderfullyunique about Restore Scalp and
could be a benefit, you know, topatients out there.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
Yeah.
The other thing I would add isthat also, you know, a lot of
people extend the time, want toextend the time between washes
just to have less um dryingeffects on their hair, but maybe
they get too greasy.
And I've seen a lot of socialmedia posts on trying to get rid
of that grease in betweenwashes.
And traditional dry shampoos,all they're gonna do is land,
(22:55):
soak up oil, and they're highlyfragranced because they're just
gonna cover up the odor of allthat debris, adding up dead skin
cells, oil.
And so the restorer scalp withthat active ingredient salicylic
acid, we know that salicylicacid actually can help to reduce
oil a little bit over time.
So with prolonged, extended useof the restorer scalp, you also
(23:19):
could become a little less oilyin between your washes.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Another added bonus.
I think that's what people arelooking for because you know, if
you don't necessarily need towash every day, a lot of people
prefer not to.
We're just busy people nowadays,right?
And it takes time.
Um, you know, showering,unfortunately, has become more
of just a duty as opposed tobeing relaxing for a lot of us.
So to have a product that couldextend that or just make it
easier to take care of ourscalp, fantastic.
(23:45):
Thank you so much, Erica, forcoming on the podcast and
talking more about scalp care.
I think people out there arereally gonna look at their scalp
a little differently now.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having me.
This has been really fun and anhonor again to be on your on
your podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
Of course, of course.
And for those of you out there,look at your scalp in a new way.
It's skincare just likeeverywhere else.
And stay tuned for the nextepisode of Dermot Trotter.
Don't swear about skincare.
SPEAKER_00 (24:10):
Thanks for listening to Dermot Trotter.
For more about skincare, visitdermittrotter.com.
Don't forget to subscribe, leavea review, and share this podcast
with anyone who needs a littleskincare sanity.
Until next time, stay skinsmart.
Frequency of washing, like you mentioned.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
I think a lot of people think that it's it's a
terrible thing if younecessarily wash.
I tell people all the time, youwould never go five days without
washing your body.
Why are you doing that to yourscalp?
That definitely has changed thegame for me and my skin because
I'm kind of a burn even though Ihave sunscreen on.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Welcome to Dermot Trotter, Don't Swear About Skin
Care, where host Dr.
Shannon C.
Trotter, a board-certifieddermatologist, sits down with
fellow dermatologists andskincare experts to separate
fact from fiction and simplifyskincare.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Welcome to the Dermotrotter, Don't Swear About
Skin Care Podcast.
We have an exciting topic heretoday.
We're going to talk about thescalp because that's what so
many people want to know is howdo I take care of my scalp?
And it's all the rage now.
So we're going to talk abouttips and tricks you can do to
have a healthy scalp.
So in essence, you have healthyhair as well.
I have a special guest heretoday, Erica Ramos.
She's a doctor of medicalscience and a certified
(00:58):
dermatology physician associatewith over 21 years of clinical
experience.
And she actually has a productdedicated to improving scalp
care, which we'll talk about atthe end.
But welcome to the podcast.
It's nice to have you here,Erica.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
So happy to be here, Dr.
Trotter.
Truly honored to be on yourpodcast.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
Well, you deal with scalp a lot, so much so it
inspired you to develop aproduct, which we'll get to, but
I really just want to talk aboutthis trend.
You know, that we're seeing alot of people are focusing on
scalp care as much as they thinkof skincare.
Why do you think that's becomingso popular now?
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
You know, I was thinking about, I don't, I don't
know if it was the emergence ofhead spas because there's all
these head spas popping up andit's kind of like what came
first, the chicken or the egg,right?
Did the head spas come first andeverybody's caring about scalp
health now?
Or um, you know, has there thisthere's this increase in talk
about it on social media?
Um, people are really caringabout the ingredients they put
(01:51):
on their skin now.
And so I don't know exactly whatsparked it, but it's definitely
a fiery, fiery, fiery littletrend that um that's good.
It's good that people arefinally talking about the scalp.
I think it's not been aconversation.
A lot of my um patients willwash their skin every day and
(02:12):
care what they put on theirskin, but have no care in the
world what they're putting ontheir scalp.
And then they'll come in and askwhy they have hair loss or other
conditions.
And so I'm glad that it's atopic of conversation now.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Yeah, I think that's a good point you bring up.
The scalp has been a littleignored, but now it's catching
on.
And I agree with you, it's allover social media.
I think the focus on hair andhair health has led us to the
scalp.
I kind of think of the scalpsort of like, you know, soil, if
you will, and the hair kind ofgrows out of it like a plant
grows out of soil.
And if the soil is healthy andit's doing well, then you're
(02:46):
gonna have a great plant, justlike you're gonna have strong,
healthy hair.
And I think with hair loss beinga topic that a lot of people
want to address moreaggressively now, and then
you're right, people caringabout what they're putting on
their skin has drawn a lot ofattention to what we can do to
really improve the health of ourscalp.
And I think just having hairthere, people ignore it.
Um, my husband is completelybald.
He's he's definitely a guy thatwe focus on scalp health.
(03:10):
And I think one of the things Italk with him, you know, for
scalp care is just the productsand what he should be putting on
it.
So I wanted to ask how you talkabout sort of do's and don'ts
with scalp care.
What is your recommendationsthat you give patients?
SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
Well, I think the majority of patients that we
have this conversation with cometo us and they have some sort of
flake or scale or itch.
So that's when the conversationcomes up the most.
And um, for them, you know, alot of them are frustrated
because they've tried everysingle over-the-counter option.
Maybe they've been to anotherdermatologist and they've also
(03:45):
had the couple of prescriptionsthat we've had traditionally.
And they just they'refrustrated.
And I really tell my patientslook, the the ingredients, all
these common ingredients that wehave, it's a it's a same theme
throughout every shampooconditioner.
It's just one of a fewingredients.
They all work.
It's just, I tell my patients,you're probably not leaving it
(04:08):
on long enough.
If I imagine myself in a shower,I'm going to rub my shampoo in,
and I'm literally next movegoing to turn around and rinse
it right back out.
And at that point, your medicinehasn't had a chance to do
anything.
It's just going down the drain.
So I kind of encourage mypatients to wear their medicated
shampoos as a mask and wear itfor about 10 minutes before they
(04:30):
even get in the shower.
And that way it's had time tosit there before they actually
get in and rinse it off.
SPEAKER_02 (04:37):
Yeah, I like that because we're all in a rush,
right?
I feel like showeringunfortunately becomes more
utilitarian for all of us as weget busier.
You kind of need to get in andout, clean, and get on your way.
And for scalp care, you know,you're mentioning this contact
time.
You know, I think it does taketime, you know, to treat the
scalp, especially if you have acondition like sebrate
dermatitis, or you mentionedkind of that flake or that itch
(04:58):
or struggling with dandruff.
And I just think people, likeyou said, they rush it, you
know, kind of in and out anddon't realize there's some
benefits to kind of going afterthe scalp and treating it.
And like you mentioned before,you know, the hair loss
component, when people have someof that inflammation, like you
mentioned, you know, all formsof hair loss, we know can be
linked back to some form ofinflammation.
I don't think people realizethey could have something, you
(05:20):
know, as dandruff that's prettysignificant or sebrec dermatitis
and truly have hair loss linkedto that.
Have you seen that in yourpractice as well with people
just so inflamed?
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, you can tell thedifference um between, I mean,
there's light, flaky dandruff,and a lot of times that's not
gonna have that erythema andinflammation of the skin, but
you start piling on a little bitmore of that yellow, greasy
scale, and you're gonna see thatunderlying redness and that
inflammation that's being causedon the scalp.
(05:51):
And it makes sense that our haircan't really grow very well in a
situation where there's all thatinflammation.
Our body's just not gonnasupport a good healthy growth if
it feels like it's under attack.
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
Yeah, and I know another topic a lot of people
like to talk about is doublecleansing, you know,
specifically for the face.
We think of that where you mightcleanse with like an oil-based
cleanser, a micellar water, takeoff that makeup sunscreen, then
do your gentle cleanser, go intoyour routine.
I really challenge people tothink about double cleansing for
the scalp.
I think there's some true valuein doing that, especially
nowadays.
I don't know about everyone outthere, but I'm busy, work
(06:27):
full-time.
I have three small children,love to do all kinds of extra
things, including the podcast.
And so there are just multipledays where I don't shampoo.
So I am one of those folks usingdry shampoo or other products to
kind of mask, you know, sort ofwhat I've been doing to my hair.
Plus, I damage my hair, diet,heat, you know, instruments, all
the things I do to kind oftorture it.
That I feel like when I go toshampoo, cleansing first with
(06:50):
one of those medicated shampoosyou've mentioned, whether it has
Brithrone zinc in it or maybesalicylic acid, can definitely
be helpful before even goinginto that regular shampoo
routine.
Have you ever recommended thatto patients or found it to be
helpful as well?
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Yeah, I do.
I because a lot of people don'tlove the medicated shampoos.
And you know, it's not great forcolored hair.
They're a little bit drying tothe hair, they're great for our
scalp, but nobody really getsthat, you know, great feeling of
I just had the most fantasticshampoo and conditioner by using
their medicated shampoos.
(07:24):
And so that's again, well, whereI'll tell people, hey, think of
this more as a mask.
And then you can get in theshower and you can literally use
whatever shampoo conditioner youlove because you've already
treated your scalp by the timeyou get in there.
So I will tell people to dothat.
Um and people that are um sorry,extending time between washes.
(07:45):
Um, you know, I've seen a lot ofsocial media supporting um using
like a glycolic or a salicylicon the scalp before you wash.
So I've seen that trend as well.
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
Yeah, I think that exfoliation for the scalp is
helpful for people like myselfthat do uh get that buildup,
whether it's product or simplyoil in the scalp or just a
little bit of those flakes,doing like a pretreatment with a
salicylic acid or glycolic acidand leaving it on, just like you
talk about, you know, beforeshampooing out, maybe you know,
10, 15 minutes beforehand canreally help get that stuff off
(08:19):
the scalp.
And I like what you mentionedtoo, that you said, you know,
focus on the scalp.
And I think that's just adifferent mindset to make people
change their mind, right?
That we think of shampoo forhair, but when we're
recommending these medicatedshampoos, we're really talking
about scalp care, not reallyfocusing on using them on the
hair, like you mentioned.
So great tip.
I like how you mentioned thatthat, you know, use that for
(08:39):
your scalp and then follow withyou know traditional shampoo or
conditioner that you actuallylove that's good for the health
of your actual hair.
And that's that's a tip I loveto share too when I talk with
patients about it.
And also the frequency ofwashing, like you mentioned.
I think a lot of people thinkthat it's it's a terrible thing
if you necessarily wash everyday.
(09:00):
And I like to tell patients, youknow what, you wash based on
your individual scalp and hairneeds.
Some people that could be aneveryday, some people that could
be every few weeks or so.
Uh, do you tend to walk patientsthrough that too?
Because I feel like that's alittle bit of a misconception
that you can't do it every daybecause you're totally going to
destroy the hair.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
Yeah, and I also think it depends on if you're um
if you have tightly coiled hairor, you know, it really depends
on the hair type.
The scalp type, like you said,if somebody's getting super
oily, it makes sense that theymay actually wash every single
day.
If somebody has really dry scalpand tightly coiled hair, they
(09:37):
don't necessarily want to washevery day.
And sometimes it's a battle foreven to get them to wash their
hair once a month.
Um, so but we just know that wecan't make our scalp better if
we're not washing it a littlebit more frequently.
And so I tell people all thetime, you would never go five
days without washing your body.
(09:59):
Why are you doing that to yourscalp?
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:01):
Yeah.
And I think it's just you kindof individualize it to the
patient, like you said, becausesome people are lucky they can
get away with quite a bit oftime without having to wash.
And unfortunately, if you havesomething like separate
dermatitis or suffer withdandruff, bumping up that
frequency can definitely make adifference.
And I always tell patients too,you know, if you're using good
quality, you know, hairproducts, you know, that are
sulfate-free, that can behydrating or moisturizing, then
(10:25):
if you're washing the hair moreoften, typically you're not
going to see damage from that.
But you do have to keep in mindthe aftermath, etopia washing.
If every time you wash, you haveto use a straight iron or a flat
iron or a curling iron or somesort of heat device.
Unfortunately, yes, then thatcan add up to the downside of
washing more frequently becauseyou're getting additional damage
(10:46):
just because of what you have todo after all the washing.
So it can be a double-edgedsword, I know, with patients
too.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
So much stuff we do, like you said, to our hair.
So definitely really depends onall the layers of everything
that we do that um affects thehealth of our hair and our
scalp.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
So we talked a little bit about kind of general
scalp care, focusing it more asa part of skincare, you know,
using good products, adjustingwashing based on your individual
scalp needs.
What about some protection?
Because I mentioned early on, myhusband completely bald, so I'm
after him all the time.
How do you talk with patientsabout, you know, some
protection?
Do you have particularrecommendations you like to make
(11:24):
on products you think that workreally well for scalp skin?
Or do you typically justrecommend hats?
Or how do you go about that?
Because that can be a nuisanceto protect the scalp, especially
if you have hair.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
Yeah, physical blockers like hats.
A lot of people will get thesehats though that have the big
holes in them, and you're, youknow, we're not protecting very
much with that.
So we talk about UPF protectionof clothing, and um, it really
comes down to the tightness ofthe weave and what's litting
those UV rays through through.
So if we have a very looseweave, of course, we're still
(11:55):
going to kind of get someeffects of the sun on our scalp.
Um, so definitely hats.
And, you know, I'm I'm one ofthese people who suffered from
pretty thin, fine hair my wholelife, and I cannot count how
many times I've actually burnedmy scalp throughout my lifetime
before getting into Derm.
And so definitely, I think inthe beginning, like years ago,
(12:19):
it was really hard to findsomething that you could protect
your scalp with.
But there have been some newerproducts that can have come out.
Uh, like Supergoop has a poof, apowder poof that is sunscreen.
Um, so, or some of the othersprays, though I don't know,
they're they're a little bitgreasy in the way that they go
(12:40):
on.
If you're using a traditionalaerosol spray that you're is
meant for your skin, sometimesthat's gonna affect how your
hair looks.
So I'd probably go with more oflike a powder, a powdered zinc
or um something like that, likethe um super goop poof.
SPEAKER_02 (12:57):
Yeah, I get you're right, because just if you have
hair, the challenge is gettingthrough all of that.
But the part line is definitelywhere I think most people forget
or miss.
It's one of those you know spotsI feel like always, you know,
the tops of your feet, the rimsof your ears, and always the
scalp seem to be the places weforget to put.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
We always forget our ears.
What do you recommend for thescalp?
What do you tell your patientsto use for the scalp?
SPEAKER_02 (13:17):
I typically you know recommend using similar to what
you recommend, things that aregoing to be good that don't
weigh the hair down.
And that's variable foreveryone.
So if they can do a spray andit's pretty drying, I'll tell
them a spray is fine.
The biggest piece is just a niceeven coating.
So, downside with some of thepowder, so even how they apply
it, if they're not appliedevenly, sometimes in the actual
coverage, and it's really allabout user air, right?
(13:39):
To a degree, are they getting itwhere they need to go?
So I think just making sure ifthey're not doing it themselves,
somebody's helping them to makesure even application is going
on there.
And I think too, you know, someof the other sunscreens, it's
just if they're dry touch, evenif they're liquid, some of them
will absorb well into the scalp.
But if you've got hair there,inevitably people are going to
get some on that hair.
And and hopefully it's not toomuch of a distraction.
(14:00):
They're going to the beach,they're doing other things, that
they don't mind if the hair's alittle mess.
And if they do, I would reallypush them to do the physical
blockade, like you mentioned.
Um, you know, try to avoid hatsthat maybe do have that loose
weave, sort of the tighterweave, and just do the physical
blockade if they don't even wantto mess with sunscreen up there.
But it's hard to get people towear hats.
My hat, you know, my husbandagain, not a hat wearer, and
he's got that entire areaexposed.
(14:22):
So it's something that peoplecan struggle with because
unfortunately, if you got hair,there's just no great way to
avoid some of the irritationfactor that that sunscreen may
give to your hair or weigh itdown and be an inconvenience.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
The other thing I worry about with the powder,
too, is that um, you know, likeyou said, if you're at the
beach, you're going in thewater, um, I don't know if we're
gonna get that um, you know, Idon't think that it says water
resistant, water, you know,sweat resistant.
And so if it gets rinsed off inthe ocean, you may have to do a
little bit more reapply withthat type of sunscreen.
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
You're exactly right, which is why I tend to
just go back to traditional, youknow, the sprays if they can get
it up there, if it's you knowliquid enough and just deal with
the hair, you know, issues thatcome with it, or obviously if
they can get a lotion orsomething else up, or if they're
willing to wear a hat.
But if you're going under thewater, it's gonna be a challenge
to keep a hat on.
And you're right, the powdersjust tend to wash off.
So not great if you're gonna bedoing water work or if you sweat
(15:15):
a tremendous amount.
Unfortunately, scalp can be asweaty area for a lot of us too,
for some protection.
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
You know, another thing um is um that I recommend
and I actually personally usewhen I go to the beach is Helio
Care.
Um, or you know, there's someother brands that are popping up
around that.
Um, but that definitely haschanged the game for me and my
skin because I'm kind of a burn,even though I have sunscreen on
um type of skin tone.
(15:41):
And uh now that I've startedusing helio care, I don't burn.
And I'm, you know, I'm able toget that every two-hour
reapplication that we need forthe sunscreen, but it's
definitely changed my opinion onbeing able to be out at the
beach all day long and not getburned.
SPEAKER_02 (15:59):
Yeah, I think you know the polypodium and helio
care, some of the other productsthat have it great add in to
sort of enhance your sunprotection.
Like you said, use it inaddition to your sunscreen and
sun protective clothing, notnecessarily a replacement for
it.
Definitely not a replacement.
Key takeaway, because everyone'ssunscreen and a pill, but we're
still not there yet.
So we we talked about this in alittle bit earlier about sort of
(16:22):
salicylic acid, glycolic acid,scalp exfoliation.
Do you recommend this to yourpatients on a regular basis or
before every type of shampoo?
Or I think you know that'sbecoming the rage, like you
mentioned, with just a lot ofyou know, social media, you
know, little blurbs about useglycolic acid, salicylic acid
for this, but can somebodyoverdo it too and create
(16:44):
problems on the scalp?
SPEAKER_01 (16:45):
Yeah, I think um there is a potential, although
they're really um very welltolerated um ingredients.
I think that there is apotential for irritation with
that if it's overused.
And so I think it really dependson if they do have dandruff,
sebderm, psoriasis, you know,how thick is that scale or that
(17:06):
plaque on maybe how they couldtolerate how often they could
tolerate it.
But I think anywhere, you know,sometimes in that range of how
thick the flake is, um, or ifthey're just using it for a um
clarifying, maybe just a coupletimes a week, if they've got
thick plaques of psoriasis,maybe they need to use it more
(17:27):
to on the four to five days aweek to actually get the benefit
of the medication and thatturnover of the skin to reduce
that plaque.
SPEAKER_02 (17:36):
Yeah, and I've I've come to be a little bit of a fan
of some of these scalp brushestoo.
You probably have seen theseadvertised kind of the rounded
silicone ones that you can kindof massage into the scalp.
Um, I like those with sometimesusing that with the glycolic
acid or silicylic acid to do alittle manual exfoliation,
although we tend to stay awayfrom mechanical exfoliation and
derm.
(17:57):
I know we tend to recommend moreof the chemical forms, but I
feel like those silicone ones,they're softer tips, they don't
cause much trauma to the skin,but they have the added bonus of
being pretty darn relaxing.
And then also I like to tellpatients you have a little bit
increased circulationpotentially going there to the
hair follicle, might help us alittle bit with hair loss if
patients are experiencing thatas well.
(18:18):
And one thing I didn't touchupon earlier that I wanted to
give you an opportunity to talkto talk about is just scalp
itch.
I think that that's something Ifeel like people come in all the
time, maybe even the absence ofactually seeing rash.
And I wanted to get yourthoughts on like how do you
address that or is thatdifferent than how you would
address anything else that we'vetalked about?
Because I think scalp itching isjust one of those things that
drives people batty.
They're coming in trying tofigure out how to, you know,
(18:39):
correct it.
But I think some of the tips youmentioned before could be a key
to actually helping patientswith that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
Yeah, I think if we get rid of some of the things
that are causing itch, theinflammation in the skin, then
maybe we reduce the itching alittle bit.
If there's an underlyingcondition, there are some
conditions that we really needto kind of think, they need to
be at least in the back of ourhead.
Are we missing something that'scausing itch?
Um, but if it's just kind ofrelated to scalp health and
(19:06):
scale and flakes and psoriasis,those things will be super
itchy.
Um, then reducing theinflammation can be really
helpful.
So in clinic, of course, we'vegot our topical steroids.
And um, there's also with thiscrossover of septum and
psoriasis, there's Zareve, whichentered the market as a foam,
(19:29):
which can also really help withitch as well.
So um, but some people will justhave that chronic itch, and we
may need to say, hey, is theresome sort of underlying eczema?
Do we need to maybe treat with,you know, was there full body
itching?
Can we use some of these othertools we have that really are
(19:51):
demonstrating great efficacy inreducing people's itch overall?
So there's the um injectablemedications and the jack
inhibitors and all this greatstuff that we have coming out
for itch in dermatology.
SPEAKER_02 (20:06):
So well, in addition to what we have to treat those
conditions, you've got a productcalled Restora Scalp that can be
used to help actually treat thescalp and different conditions
on it.
Tell me a little bit about itand when do you recommend it for
patients?
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
So I think that anybody that is wanting scalp
health and still loves to maybeextend their time between
washes, then restora scalp isthe dry shampoo for you.
You don't have to have dandruffand sebderm and psoriasis to use
this dry shampoo.
You could just use it as anexfoliative, clarifying dry
(20:43):
shampoo.
It does have some ingredients init.
We just talked about itch.
So it does have some ingredientsin it, um, the herbal remedies
that help with itch andanti-inflammation, and some that
help with a little tiny bit ofmoisture and detoxifying.
So there's some really coolherbal remedies in there that
(21:03):
have a little bit of a backingthrough medical research.
And um, so it really issomething that, like if you have
an itch, an itchy scalp, thenthose ingredients could help.
If you just want somethingthat's getting rid of dead skin
cell and promoting naturalturnover of skin cells so that
we can kind of offload thedebris around our hair
(21:24):
follicles, then it's a great dryshampoo.
Um, but definitely if you havedandruff, sebaric dermatitis, or
psoriasis, uh our activeingredient is salicylic acid,
which we've talked about acouple of times.
And so that's what's helpingwith that exfoliation, that
clarifying of the scalp, butalso is a known FDA trusted
(21:48):
ingredient for the treatment ofdandruff, sebaric dermatitis,
and psoriasis.
SPEAKER_02 (21:53):
Yeah, I think a lot of people will be familiar with
that because they've probablytried shampoos with salicylic
acid in it before, or maybe usedit to treat acne if they had
some breakouts.
So having it on something thatcan stay on the scalp, but I I
love the fact that sort of adouble duty type thing, you
know, I use dry shampoo like afiend.
I feel like sometimes I couldhave stock in dry shampoo and
you look at the money you mayspend.
(22:14):
But to have a dry shampoo thatalso has ingredients in it that
can promote health of the skin,the scalp, and then also maybe
reduce some of that buildup orhelp the skin cell turnover.
I mean, that can definitely be awin-win.
And I love products that do morethan one thing.
So I think that's wonderfullyunique about Restore Scalp and
could be a benefit, you know, topatients out there.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
Yeah.
The other thing I would add isthat also, you know, a lot of
people extend the time, want toextend the time between washes
just to have less um dryingeffects on their hair, but maybe
they get too greasy.
And I've seen a lot of socialmedia posts on trying to get rid
of that grease in betweenwashes.
And traditional dry shampoos,all they're gonna do is land,
(22:55):
soak up oil, and they're highlyfragranced because they're just
gonna cover up the odor of allthat debris, adding up dead skin
cells, oil.
And so the restorer scalp withthat active ingredient salicylic
acid, we know that salicylicacid actually can help to reduce
oil a little bit over time.
So with prolonged, extended useof the restorer scalp, you also
(23:19):
could become a little less oilyin between your washes.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Another added bonus.
I think that's what people arelooking for because you know, if
you don't necessarily need towash every day, a lot of people
prefer not to.
We're just busy people nowadays,right?
And it takes time.
Um, you know, showering,unfortunately, has become more
of just a duty as opposed tobeing relaxing for a lot of us.
So to have a product that couldextend that or just make it
easier to take care of ourscalp, fantastic.
(23:45):
Thank you so much, Erica, forcoming on the podcast and
talking more about scalp care.
I think people out there arereally gonna look at their scalp
a little differently now.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having me.
This has been really fun and anhonor again to be on your on
your podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
Of course, of course.
And for those of you out there,look at your scalp in a new way.
It's skincare just likeeverywhere else.
And stay tuned for the nextepisode of Dermot Trotter.
Don't swear about skincare.
SPEAKER_00 (24:10):
Thanks for listening to Dermot Trotter.
For more about skincare, visitdermittrotter.com.
Don't forget to subscribe, leavea review, and share this podcast
with anyone who needs a littleskincare sanity.
Until next time, stay skinsmart.
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