May 13, 2025 • 27 mins
Skin cancer is the most common—and preventable—cancer in the U.S., yet many of us still skip proper sun protection. In this episode, Dr. Amy Spizuoco, a board-certified dermatologist and Mohs surgeon, breaks down sunscreen myths and shares practical, no-nonsense advice. From SPF confusion and spray application tips to protecting overlooked areas like the scalp and lips, Dr. Spiz helps reframe sunscreen as a daily act of self-care. Whether you're a parent, a skincare newbie, or someone who just hates the feel of sunscreen, this conversation will change the way you protect your skin.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think it's extremely important to wear
sunscreen every single day, evenwhen it's raining, even when
it's snowing, even in the middleof winter.
Uva and UVB can cause skincancer.
There are two types ofsunscreens.
There's the mineral sunscreensor the physical blockers, and
then there's the chemicalblockers.
I always recommend for yourfull body you should use one
ounce.
So picture a shot glass thatshould cover your entire body.
(00:24):
To have a skin cancer.
It moved, it's scary, you knowit's.
At the end of the day, it'ssurgery.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Dermot Trotter.
Don't swear about skincare whenhost Dr Shannon C Trotter, a
board certified dermatologist,sits down with fellow
dermatologists and skincareexperts to separate fact from
fiction and simplify skincare.
Let's get started.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Welcome to the Dermotrotter Don't Swear About
Skincare podcast.
Today I have a special guest onDr Amy Spivoco.
Board-certified dermatologistactually goes by Dr Spiv, past
president of the AOCD and alsodermatologist,
dermatopathologist and Mohssurgeon.
So, as you can tell, already anoverachiever and a wonderful
(01:10):
lady at that.
Welcome to the podcast, amy.
It's great to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Thank you so much, dr Trotter, and I wanted to say
congratulations on your newlyappointed board of trustees for
the AOCD.
Thank you so much.
It's such a great honor to haveCongratulations.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well, I fall in great footsteps, like yourself, but
I'm really happy to have youwith us because you know what we
want to talk about todaysunscreens.
You know, I feel likeeveryone's like overwhelmed
right With all the informationon sunscreens.
What's out there?
What's fact, what's fiction?
What do I need to be doing?
And a lot of people think it'sreally obvious.
You know, like, why wearsunscreen.
Well, they think they kind ofknow, but I want you to really
explain why is it so?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
important that we wear sunscreen every day.
I will.
I know there's so muchconfusing information out there,
and not that it changes all thetime, but someone puts out one
little story on whatever socialmedia and then it's trending
everywhere and you know, andyour office is flooded with all
this misinformation or justmisnomers.
So I think it's extremelyimportant to wear sunscreen
every single day, even when it'sraining, even when it's snowing
(02:13):
, even in the middle of winter,when there are UV rays showing,
because UVA and UVB can causeskin cancer.
Cause UVA and UVB can causeskin cancer.
It can cause melanoma, it cancause squamous cell carcinomas,
basal cell carcinomas, you nameit.
All related to sun exposure.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And so if somebody's out there thinking like, yeah, I
don't know, sunscreen is for me.
I hear I got to wear it everyday.
It sounds like a lot of work.
Who do you really think of thatshould be wearing sunscreen and
who shouldn't be wearing it?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Everyone, Everyone should be wearing sunscreen.
My patients come in every dayin the morning and they'll say,
oh well, I'm just coming herefor my appointment and then I'm
going to my office and that's it.
I'm barely outside.
But what they don't realize isthere's UVA and UVB outside, no
matter where they go, Especiallywhere I practice in New York
City.
You know we're in the concretejungle, there's, you know,
(03:11):
asphalt everywhere, so itreflects up, it reflects around.
So every single person shouldbe wearing sunscreen every day.
Every we say Fitzpatrick skintype, you know the lighter skins
to the darker skins.
So anyone who has skin shouldbe wearing sunscreen every day,
in my opinion.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And how do you deal with that with children If you
have a parent coming in thatmaybe has a little one, a
newborn, maybe you know, justyou know, born a few weeks ago.
They want to go somewhere nice.
How do you counsel them onsunscreen and what they should
do for kids?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Well for one, stay out of the sun.
That's my main thing.
I tell everyone at all my skincancer screenings or any, just
any appointment we have withpatients stay out of the sun.
If you have to be in the sun,try to be out from you.
Stay out from the hours of 10am and 2 pm mainly, but if you
have to be in this sun we wantto cover up as best as you can.
(03:58):
So anything physically that canblock your skin from the sun,
so hats, sunglasses, longsleeves, anything to protect and
cover your skin and block.
Also, there's clothing that hassunscreen added to it.
It's called UPF protectiveclothing.
So I always recommend ourpatients buying that, especially
(04:20):
for the little ones who aregoing to be out in the water.
You know, playing in the sandall day and then two.
You can also buy laundrydetergent and use it and it will
add some protective factor toyour clothing if you don't want
to buy clothing that already hasit in.
So that's what I alwaysrecommend for the little ones.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Well, and that's really great too, because then
you can make essentially anypiece of clothing potentially
some protective and especiallywith us not wanting those little
ones under six months of age touse sunscreen, that clothing
becomes pretty important as theavoidance that you highlighted
there, because I think peoplejust think, oh, being out in the
sun, you know it's healthy forthem, right, you know we need
that sun exposure, but notrealizing how immature and
(04:57):
sensitive their skin is andprone to sunburn and what can
actually happen.
So really good points that youhighlight there, because I think
parents are looking atsunscreen once they want to
start using this, you know, sixmonths of age or older, part of
the concern is they're like Idon't know, I don't like these
ingredients in sunscreen.
Do you mind talking a littlebit about those ingredients,
like how does sunscreens workand the difference between, like
(05:18):
the chemical and mineralsunscreens?
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So there are two types of sunscreens.
There's the mineral sunscreensor the physical blockers, and
then there's the chemicalblockers, the chemical
sunscreens.
So the way the mineral oneswork is they are laid on the
skin or applied to the skin andthey reflect the UVA and the UVB
.
So those are the mineral onestitanium dioxide, zinc oxide the
(05:43):
physical blockers, the chemicalblockers, are like the
avobenzones and the octicrylateI can't even say all the words
harder than my last name butthose are the ones that actually
get absorbed into the skin andwhat they do is they absorb the
UVA and the UVB, so they kind ofscatter it under the skin.
Uva and the UVB, so they kindof scatter it under the skin.
(06:07):
So the mineral or the physicalsare going to reflect and the
chemicals are going to absorbthat UVA and UVB.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And when you think of those, like from your own
personal opinion perspective, doyou feel like both of those are
safe options for patients?
Because I think a lot of peopleout there think, oh, they hear
the word, you know, chemicalsunscreen.
I think the connotation ofchemical people think negative,
right, like chemical must be abad thing, not even thinking
that, well, zinc and titaniumoxide, I mean those are both
chemicals.
Water is a chemical, right.
(06:32):
So I think part of whatconfuses patients people out
there is you know, are thesereally safe?
Are these okay?
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I think the ones that the titanium dioxide, zinc
oxide, the mineral or the um,you know the physical barriers,
I think they are safer becausethey don't get absorbed into the
skin.
They really just kind ofreflect the sunlight back, the
uva, the uvb, um, the absorptionof the chemical blockers, I
don't think anyone really knowshow much exactly gets absorbed,
you know, into the system andwhat it actually really can do.
So I mean, if you have a choice, I always say the physical or
(07:11):
the mineral blockers aredefinitely, we know are safer.
The extent of safety I don'tthink anyone really knows, but
in my opinion any sunscreen isbetter than getting a melanoma.
So any sunscreen is better thangetting a melanoma.
So any sunscreen.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Because I think that's true.
You know, like part of it is.
You know what are youcomfortable with.
So the thought of using one ofthe chemical type component
sunscreens really freaks you out.
And yeah, stick with themineral.
You know I try to encouragepeople to.
You know, we do know that thereis some absorption of some of
these materials, like chemicals,into the body from sunscreen
use, but we really don't knowwhat to make of that.
(07:47):
Does that necessarily mean thatthey're causing harm?
Right, and I think the jury'sstill out.
We need more data.
So you're right, usingsunscreen regardless whether you
choose a mineral or chemical,one's great.
Or maybe do a hybrid.
There's lots that combine itnow that some people like the
benefits.
You know both and maybe thatcan get the best of both worlds.
(08:09):
But I get where people are kindof concerned because I think
when they're looking at thelabel, you know they're reading
oh, is this mineral or what arethese chemical names, like you
mentioned some of the examples.
And then they're also lookingat SPF.
But a lot of people don'treally know what SPF means.
Do you mind explaining that alittle bit to give people a
better idea, if they're lookingat that label, what SPF refers?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
to.
Yeah, so sun protection factor.
So that is the level ofprotection that this product or
this sunscreen is going to giveyou from preventing a sunburn.
So it's measured by the, it'scalculated and measured by the
minimal erythema dose.
So what they did when they testit out is they apply a
(08:43):
sunscreen to an area of skin onthe body Sorry, they apply
sunlight or UVA or UVB to anarea of skin and then they also
apply an area of sunscreen tothe same area, a layer of
sunscreen to the area, and theycalculate how long it takes for
each spot to burn.
So if with sunscreen on, ittakes 150 minutes to burn and
(09:07):
without sunscreen it takes 10minutes, you now have SPF 15,
because it gets divided 150 by10.
And that's how they figure outthose numbers.
So when they measure the SPF,though, it really only refers to
blocking UVB, not so much UVA,and that really applies to the
chemical blockers, excuse me.
(09:27):
So we know the avobenzones andthe octacrylates.
You know those are a little bitbetter with UVA.
The mineral and the physicalones we know are a little bit
better with UVA and UVB.
So another reason why it'sbetter to use the mineral
sunscreens because they're moreof a broad spectrum that word
(09:47):
that we keep hearing listed onsunscreens.
So the ones that can reallyonly list the sunscreen brands
that can only that can listbroad spectrum excuse me are the
ones that have the minerals, sothe titanium dioxide and the
zinc oxide.
So another reason why those aregoing to be better for you
because they block more UVA andUVB at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So it sounds like that's what we should be looking
for on that label right An SPFBroad spectrum.
Yes, broad spectrum are the twothings to make sure we're
hitting those UVA and UVB rays,and we'll talk a little bit more
about specificity with SPF,maybe what you would recommend.
But there's also this conceptof like the PA rating of
sunscreen, and I think somepeople have heard of it here in
(10:29):
the United States, but it'sdefinitely better known in other
countries or parts of Asia.
Do you mind explaining a littlebit what the PA rating is, in
case somebody does see a bunchof positive signs on their label
and they're wondering what isthat?
Even referring to?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, so this was used to test the level of the
UVA protection.
It's the protection grade ofUVA and right, there are pluses.
So one plus is going to be likeminimally protective against
UVA.
Lots of pluses are going to bemuch more.
You know, it's a gradient theretoo, but that's going to let us
know what's helping to blockthe UVA rays.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
And then if you have people that are looking for the
extra bonus, you know they can.
Okay, this says broad spectrum.
I got my SPF.
Maybe there's a PA rating.
What about?
They're going to be in water alot If they're, you know, going
to be swimming, or maybe theyjust tend to sweat a lot.
What should they be looking foron their label as well?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So, they want to look for water resistant
no-transcript.
So that's going to measure howlong this sunscreen will be able
to kind of protect the waterfrom seeping in and washing off
(11:45):
the sunscreen.
So it can either be 40 minutesor 80 minutes.
Obviously look for 80 minutesso it lasts longer.
But I'm sure you do the samething.
I always tell my patients ifyou're going to be out in the
beach or the lake or you'regoing to be sweating and
somewhere you're going to getwater on your skin after
applying sunscreen, you want tomake sure that you reapply.
I say every hour.
(12:06):
I know the AAD, you know andprobably the American Cancer
Society all say every two hours,but I just don't think people
listen.
So you know compliance is suchan issue.
So I say if you're going to beout all day sweating and getting
wet, reapply every hour.
Yeah, I think it's human natureright.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
You give people an inch, they take a mile.
So I think you short that alittle bit, even though you're
right.
Our guidelines are maybe givepeople a little bit more
leniency, which I think that'swhat a lot of people want to
know.
Okay, like if you wouldsummarize you know what?
Minimal SPF?
What should my label say?
How often should I reapply?
What do you tell your patientswith sunscreen?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I sound like a broken record after a skin cancer
screening and I feel like mystaff like want to like just
fall asleep standing.
But I say you know, I say stayout of the sun.
If you have to be in the sun,let it not be between 10am and
2pm, but if you do stay in theshade, you know, cover, like I
said with.
You know, long sleeves, a hat,sunglasses, apply your sunscreen
(13:08):
.
I always say apply it 20minutes before going out in the
sun.
Even with the physical blockersor the mineral blockers, they
don't get absorbed and theystart working immediately.
But just in case someone's notusing a physical blocker, like I
recommend, and they're using achemical one that takes about 20
minutes to absorb in the skin,so I tell them the second.
(13:30):
You get to the beach and youknow, get all set up.
That's not when you should putyour sunscreen on.
You should put it on whenyou're getting your bathing suit
on, you know, getting ready togo out to the beach or the pool,
and then I say reapply everyhour if you're going to be out
there all day in the sun.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Those are my keys.
And how often do you think theyactually listen to your
recommendation?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You know, I think they want to.
I think it's hard, though, youknow, when you're at the beach
and you know playing and youknow just having fun, to stop
and say, wait, I got to put mysunscreen on is is a little bit,
um, a little bit hard to do, sothat's why, again, I like the
SPF, uh, the UPF clothing um, alittle bit hard to do.
So that's why, again, I likethe SPF, uh, the UPF clothing,
um, and and sitting in the shadeas much as you can.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, I think that's the hard part.
You know some protection ingeneral is a lot of work, right,
like I think we're.
All.
Even myself as a dermatologist,I mean I can be as lazy as the
next person and my husbandalways makes fun of me because
he says, oh, it's you and thefive-year-olds with your rash
guards on, you know, when we goto the beach.
But it's a lot of work, youknow, to keep reapplying,
chasing the kids down, and so Ialways tell people you know it
does take a little bit ofdedication to get used to it in
(14:38):
a routine, but it can work ifyou actually do it.
Once people get the buy-in,they definitely see the benefit
for it.
And I think, too, sunscreen isinteresting Now that we're
coming up.
You know spring's upon us.
People are getting ready forthose spring break trips or even
thinking about where they'regoing to travel this summer.
Should they use their sunscreenfrom last year?
Or what do you think aboutexpiration dates?
What do you tell people to lookfor?
(14:59):
Because a lot of thosesunscreens have been thrown in
the car, you know, for weeks onend or the end of the summer.
Maybe they were in their hot.
You know beach bag down at thebeach.
How do you educate people onjust expiration of sunscreens?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I tell them it's really important because, while
other things can have a littlebit of a longer shelf life, you
don't want to mess around withyour sunscreen because we really
don't know.
If it does say April 2025, areyou going to use the Memorial
Day weekend a month later?
We really don't know what itmeans with the shelf life when
it wears out, and that's notsomething you want to risk.
You know, putting on asunscreen that you think is
going to work and then you get aburn, you know, then years
(15:37):
later, you end up with the skincancer.
So I think expiration dates aresuper important and, and
speaking of that as well, thesunscreens that are laying
around in your trunk or, youknow, in your beach bag, that
you put in, you know, yourgarage for the winter, I always
recommend for your full body,you should use one ounce, you
know.
So picture a shot glass thatshould cover your entire body
(16:00):
and I, you know, I tease mypatients and say that, like you
know, four ounce bottle of, likeCoppertone which I don't get
this anymore, just age myself,but you know that four ounce
bottle, like if you're a familyof four, you should use it at
one beach trip, or even justthat you know.
On your way to the beach, youneed to have backups with you.
So, exploration data, I think issuper important and that's not
(16:21):
something you want to risk.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
When it comes to sunscreen, Not at all I know we
kind of talked about labelingand stuff we're seeing now on
sunscreen how much to put on.
What are your thoughts onsunscreen and kind of this?
You know concept behind likethe high energy visible light
and you know kind of makingcomments about that on sunscreen
labels.
Is that something that you talkto patients a little bit about,
(16:45):
about how that can contributemaybe to skin issues as well?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I do to an extent, but I think there's still not a
lot known out there about it.
So I mean, I've just alwayssaid it and I still think it
holds up, no matter what.
Always wear your sunscreen,even if you're just going out to
the mailbox to get your youknow, your mail or your
newspaper.
Like it's just lights comingfrom everywhere and we're
learning more and more aboutright the, the effects or the
(17:12):
benefits of visible light, youknow?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, I feel like a bit more concerned, like you and
I sitting at the computer rightnow, like what kind of exposure
are we getting?
You know the blue light?
Or people are on their phonesall day and kind of wondering
you know, what's that going todo to my skin?
You know, in the long run andyou're right, I think we don't
know necessarily for skin cancerper se, but definitely I guess
if somebody is prone tohyperpigmentation or those types
of changes, they might be alittle bit more concerned.
(17:37):
Or, you know, looking for thoseiron oxides and sunscreens.
You know that might be helpful,you know, to kind of help with
that potentially and that'sanother thing on the label.
I feel like checking all thesethings off can definitely be
challenging, but at higher SPFspeople can also get that
additional protection, which Ithink is useful too if they're
kind of concerned about that.
Because I think, although youknow we focus on sunscreens, you
(17:57):
know quite a bit, I thinkwhat's hard is there's just so
many sunscreens out there, right, people are like what do I get?
Do I get a spray?
Do I get a stick?
Do I get a lotion?
You know, and I try to explainto people, you know we kind of
call that the vehicle, the wayyour sunscreen, how it comes
packaged or how it's sort ofdelivered to you and how you're
going to put it on.
Can you kind of clarify, youknow, for people out there that
are thinking, oh, sprays don'twork as good as lotions, or they
(18:20):
don't work as good as sticks,like what do you tell your
patients?
If they're you know, I tellthem, whatever sunscreen,
whatever vehicle, like youmentioned, they're comfortable
with.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's the one that they should stick to, because
that's the one that's going towork, because that's the one
they're going to use.
So I like the sticks, I likethe lotions, I like the sprays.
What a lot of people fail torealize with the sprays is that
you do have to rub it in, justlike a lotion and just like a
stick.
You can't just spray it andthink you're good, you know, you
spray it just for ease of, Ithink, application, but then it
(18:55):
does need to be rubbed in forsure.
I also, like I have a lot ofpatients, you know, always doing
marathons in the city andthey're always outside running,
so they're sweating all the timeand they don't want to put
sunscreen on their face becausethey feel like it gets in their
eyes or in their mouth.
So then I recommend, like thepowders Color Science was
(19:16):
probably, I think, one of thefirst brands to create like
powdered sunscreen.
There's clear ones, there'stinted ones, whatever people
want.
And even for the scalp, likethe part line, I always
recommend sunscreen when peopleare out and if they don't want
to do a spray or a lotion intheir hair, like I wouldn't I
don't know if you would.
I always recommend the powdersfor that too.
I think it's really helpful.
(19:37):
So I think vehicle doesn'treally matter, just as long as
it's applied properly and it'sused appropriately, like we've
said about 20 times already onthis talk.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, I think we've all been on the beach before and
see people spraying.
No, they're holding out hereand most of it is dropping to
the ground, not even coming incontact with their skin, and I'm
like, well, yeah, that'sprobably why it didn't work,
even though it's in the springand blowing in the wind.
Exactly.
This brings up another pointhow you mentioned just paying
attention to the part line inyour scalp, because a lot of
people do think, oh, I totallyforget about my scalp and wind
(20:08):
up burning.
What about lips?
Do you have any recommendationsfor what people should do for
their lips, because that'sanother area that gets neglected
with sunscreen use.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Absolutely.
It's for me.
I always remind patients lipsand ears, because when I do a
screening and I see lots offreckles on the ears, I always
remind my patients.
It's so easy to forget yourears, you know, when you're
applying your sunscreen.
Don't forget that.
And your lips, a lot of that.
I say, if you can, if you cantolerate it, put your sunscreen
on your lips too.
I know it's kind of yuckytasting, but the great thing is
(20:38):
there are so many lip productsout there now that put SPF.
Aquaphor has a couple of greatones.
Even I think Clinique has theirMoisture Surge Lip has some SPF
in it.
So I always recommend gettingany kind of lip balm or any kind
of lip sunscreen, for thatmatter, as well.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
And I have to ask because I feel like this is what
more and more patients arecoming in.
You know again, we talked aboutall the different products.
They go down the sunscreenaisle.
They're like where do I evenstart?
You know, they're feeling them,they're smelling them, trying
to figure out what's going to bethe best one.
Like you said, one that theylove is one they're going to use
.
What's all the hype and therage with Korean sunscreens that
you'll see on social media andpeople are just asking about?
(21:19):
And how do you, you know, talkthat through with patients about
what you think they're valuablefor?
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Well, Korean skincare has been trending for quite a
while now, with snail mucin andbone tallow and whatever the
heck else is out there, right?
I don't know if that's Korean,but just I'm talking about
trending things.
I think Koreans do a reallygreat job of making their
skincare routine more of like aritual.
(21:45):
Making their skincare routinemore of like a ritual, not so
much as, like you know, theirchores or a morning routine.
So a lot of their products are,you know, with skincare in mind
.
So I think that also shows thattheir sunscreens also put a
little bit more effort, you know, in skincare into it as well.
So a lot of the Korean brandsout there now have a combination
, like you mentioned earlier,with the physical blockers and
the chemical blockers as well.
So a lot of the Korean brandsout there now have a combination
(22:06):
, like you mentioned earlier,with the physical blockers and
the chemical blockers as well.
Um, but they also infuse themwith nice things like
niacinamide, hyaluronic acid.
Um, Centella Asiatica or Cicais in a lot of their products
now too.
So I think it's it's becomingmore, you know, trending or in
vogue, or because it's more likeluxurious, you know, more of a
(22:31):
ritual than just like I got toput my sunscreen on today, so I
think that's a big feature and anice factor of the Korean
sunscreen products out there.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I think their approach could benefit a lot of
people.
Like you said, like I think wedo approach sometimes their
skincare regimen like it is sucha chore or one more thing to
put on our list because peopleare busy.
You know, no matter who you are, you've got busy days, and
especially in the morning whenyou're barely awake and having
coffee yet and you've got totake care of your skin.
Or at night, you know it's beena crazy day and you just want
to fall into bed.
(23:01):
They might have the rightapproach and I, like the.
You said that that putting yoursunscreen on doesn't
necessarily have to be a chore.
It's just a part of self-carefor your skin.
So they may be onto somethingthere, because I've seen some of
the feedback and people talkabout that or that.
Their lighter weight or, youknow, some of their mineral
blockers blend a little bitbetter and you don't see as much
(23:22):
as that white hue.
And they may have some filtersthat we don't have.
You know that aren't approvedin the United States.
But philosophy you mentioned issomething that we should try to
approach that you know.
Sun protection is a part of,you know, self-care, just like
you said, or a ritual.
There's a psychological benefitto doing that, not just work at
the end of the day.
But I know it's philosophy wealways want to do and it's
brilliant to combine things.
(23:42):
I think in our busy lifestyleyou know, doing combo products
is wonderful.
If you can get antioxidants inwith your sunscreen or other
things, that's just a bonus, atotal bonus.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, pulling double and triple duty.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Exactly, exactly.
That is the world we live in.
Any other thoughts on sunscreenor you know things you want to
leave the audience with today onyour thoughts on sunscreen as
they head out this summer.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
As a dermatopathologist and a Mohs
surgeon, I hate to scare peopleand I don't want to say threaten
, but I always tell my patientsyou would much rather just feel
uncomfortable for a few hours atthe beach with your sunscreen
than have me or someone elsecome at you with a scalpel, you
know, to have a skin cancerremoved.
It's scary, you know it's.
(24:24):
At the end of the day it'ssurgery.
You know you're havingsomething of your skin removed
because it's got cancer.
You know, and I always just tryto put a little fear into
people to get them to use theirsunscreen.
But, um, you know, and the laststatement that we mentioned, too
, I try to make it seem likeit's a ritual.
(24:44):
You know a lot of the.
You know the sunscreens now,like, especially for women, um,
or people who are interested indoing makeup, you know this,
they're being combined.
You know a lot of the skincareproducts now also have sunscreen
in them.
Um, a lot of them are in inpowders and foundations and you
know I just try to, you know,show people that it's, it's not
(25:04):
a chore.
You know it really can be likemore of a ritual or you know
something that you can enjoydoing for yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
But you bring up a good point that we can talk
about.
What do you tell women say, oh,I'm good on sunscreen, it's in
my foundation, and they kind ofblow off, like maybe using
sunscreen elsewhere, maybe don'tthink about, hey, there's other
places you don't put yourfoundation.
What do you tell women aboutthat Cause, think about, hey,
there's other places you don'tput your foundation.
What do you tell women aboutthat?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Because that's a good point, even though we're sort
of summarizing everything.
What do you tell them about themakeup issue and sunscreen?
I say it's good that there areyour skincare products that you
like that are infused withsunscreen.
Please make sure it's 30 orhigher.
15, I don't think is enough, Ieven prefer 50, but I'll take 30
if that's what's there.
But then I remind them, everysun exposed area needs to be
covered.
So even you know, if you'rewalking outside and you put
(25:53):
sunscreen on your face andyou're, you know you're wearing
like a tank top, you know, or at-shirt, what about your neck?
What about your chest?
What about the backs of yourhands?
You know you got to remember toput sunscreen everywhere.
And if you're putting yourmakeup there with sunscreen,
that's fine, but you probablyaren't.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
So make sure you're putting sunscreen on those areas
too.
Good final thoughts.
So sunscreen or be afraid ofthe scalpel, according to Well,
thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
This has been great.
I think people are going tolearn so much about just
sunscreen things they haven'treally thought of and then kind
of a way to just, you know, makeit a part of the routine.
Like you said, think of it asself-care, like anything else
(26:32):
that we're recommending, youknow, for our patients to do.
So thanks again for coming onchatting more with us.
For our listeners that theywant to find you where can they
locate you online or more aboutyour practice.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Sure, my practice is called True Dermatology in New
York City.
We're in Flatiron.
I'm on Instagram DrSpizDerm,TikTok the same, and Facebook,
so if anyone wants to, just youknow, check out my tips, find me
there.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Well, thanks again for coming on the podcast.
It was great to chat with you,as always.
And stay tuned for the nextepisode of Dermot Trotter Don't
Swear About Skincare.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Thanks for listening to Dermot Trotter.
For more about skincare, visitDermotTrottercom.
Don't forget to subscribe,leave a review and share this
podcast with anyone who needs alittle skincare sanity.
Until next time, stay skinsmart.
I think it's extremely important to wear
sunscreen every single day, evenwhen it's raining, even when
it's snowing, even in the middleof winter.
Uva and UVB can cause skincancer.
There are two types ofsunscreens.
There's the mineral sunscreensor the physical blockers, and
then there's the chemicalblockers.
I always recommend for yourfull body you should use one
ounce.
So picture a shot glass thatshould cover your entire body.
(00:24):
To have a skin cancer.
It moved, it's scary, you knowit's.
At the end of the day, it'ssurgery.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Dermot Trotter.
Don't swear about skincare whenhost Dr Shannon C Trotter, a
board certified dermatologist,sits down with fellow
dermatologists and skincareexperts to separate fact from
fiction and simplify skincare.
Let's get started.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Welcome to the Dermotrotter Don't Swear About
Skincare podcast.
Today I have a special guest onDr Amy Spivoco.
Board-certified dermatologistactually goes by Dr Spiv, past
president of the AOCD and alsodermatologist,
dermatopathologist and Mohssurgeon.
So, as you can tell, already anoverachiever and a wonderful
(01:10):
lady at that.
Welcome to the podcast, amy.
It's great to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Thank you so much, dr Trotter, and I wanted to say
congratulations on your newlyappointed board of trustees for
the AOCD.
Thank you so much.
It's such a great honor to haveCongratulations.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well, I fall in great footsteps, like yourself, but
I'm really happy to have youwith us because you know what we
want to talk about todaysunscreens.
You know, I feel likeeveryone's like overwhelmed
right With all the informationon sunscreens.
What's out there?
What's fact, what's fiction?
What do I need to be doing?
And a lot of people think it'sreally obvious.
You know, like, why wearsunscreen.
Well, they think they kind ofknow, but I want you to really
explain why is it so?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
important that we wear sunscreen every day.
I will.
I know there's so muchconfusing information out there,
and not that it changes all thetime, but someone puts out one
little story on whatever socialmedia and then it's trending
everywhere and you know, andyour office is flooded with all
this misinformation or justmisnomers.
So I think it's extremelyimportant to wear sunscreen
every single day, even when it'sraining, even when it's snowing
(02:13):
, even in the middle of winter,when there are UV rays showing,
because UVA and UVB can causeskin cancer.
Cause UVA and UVB can causeskin cancer.
It can cause melanoma, it cancause squamous cell carcinomas,
basal cell carcinomas, you nameit.
All related to sun exposure.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And so if somebody's out there thinking like, yeah, I
don't know, sunscreen is for me.
I hear I got to wear it everyday.
It sounds like a lot of work.
Who do you really think of thatshould be wearing sunscreen and
who shouldn't be wearing it?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Everyone, Everyone should be wearing sunscreen.
My patients come in every dayin the morning and they'll say,
oh well, I'm just coming herefor my appointment and then I'm
going to my office and that's it.
I'm barely outside.
But what they don't realize isthere's UVA and UVB outside, no
matter where they go, Especiallywhere I practice in New York
City.
You know we're in the concretejungle, there's, you know,
(03:11):
asphalt everywhere, so itreflects up, it reflects around.
So every single person shouldbe wearing sunscreen every day.
Every we say Fitzpatrick skintype, you know the lighter skins
to the darker skins.
So anyone who has skin shouldbe wearing sunscreen every day,
in my opinion.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And how do you deal with that with children If you
have a parent coming in thatmaybe has a little one, a
newborn, maybe you know, justyou know, born a few weeks ago.
They want to go somewhere nice.
How do you counsel them onsunscreen and what they should
do for kids?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Well for one, stay out of the sun.
That's my main thing.
I tell everyone at all my skincancer screenings or any, just
any appointment we have withpatients stay out of the sun.
If you have to be in the sun,try to be out from you.
Stay out from the hours of 10am and 2 pm mainly, but if you
have to be in this sun we wantto cover up as best as you can.
(03:58):
So anything physically that canblock your skin from the sun,
so hats, sunglasses, longsleeves, anything to protect and
cover your skin and block.
Also, there's clothing that hassunscreen added to it.
It's called UPF protectiveclothing.
So I always recommend ourpatients buying that, especially
(04:20):
for the little ones who aregoing to be out in the water.
You know, playing in the sandall day and then two.
You can also buy laundrydetergent and use it and it will
add some protective factor toyour clothing if you don't want
to buy clothing that already hasit in.
So that's what I alwaysrecommend for the little ones.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Well, and that's really great too, because then
you can make essentially anypiece of clothing potentially
some protective and especiallywith us not wanting those little
ones under six months of age touse sunscreen, that clothing
becomes pretty important as theavoidance that you highlighted
there, because I think peoplejust think, oh, being out in the
sun, you know it's healthy forthem, right, you know we need
that sun exposure, but notrealizing how immature and
(04:57):
sensitive their skin is andprone to sunburn and what can
actually happen.
So really good points that youhighlight there, because I think
parents are looking atsunscreen once they want to
start using this, you know, sixmonths of age or older, part of
the concern is they're like Idon't know, I don't like these
ingredients in sunscreen.
Do you mind talking a littlebit about those ingredients,
like how does sunscreens workand the difference between, like
(05:18):
the chemical and mineralsunscreens?
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So there are two types of sunscreens.
There's the mineral sunscreensor the physical blockers, and
then there's the chemicalblockers, the chemical
sunscreens.
So the way the mineral oneswork is they are laid on the
skin or applied to the skin andthey reflect the UVA and the UVB
.
So those are the mineral onestitanium dioxide, zinc oxide the
(05:43):
physical blockers, the chemicalblockers, are like the
avobenzones and the octicrylateI can't even say all the words
harder than my last name butthose are the ones that actually
get absorbed into the skin andwhat they do is they absorb the
UVA and the UVB, so they kind ofscatter it under the skin.
Uva and the UVB, so they kindof scatter it under the skin.
(06:07):
So the mineral or the physicalsare going to reflect and the
chemicals are going to absorbthat UVA and UVB.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And when you think of those, like from your own
personal opinion perspective, doyou feel like both of those are
safe options for patients?
Because I think a lot of peopleout there think, oh, they hear
the word, you know, chemicalsunscreen.
I think the connotation ofchemical people think negative,
right, like chemical must be abad thing, not even thinking
that, well, zinc and titaniumoxide, I mean those are both
chemicals.
Water is a chemical, right.
(06:32):
So I think part of whatconfuses patients people out
there is you know, are thesereally safe?
Are these okay?
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I think the ones that the titanium dioxide, zinc
oxide, the mineral or the um,you know the physical barriers,
I think they are safer becausethey don't get absorbed into the
skin.
They really just kind ofreflect the sunlight back, the
uva, the uvb, um, the absorptionof the chemical blockers, I
don't think anyone really knowshow much exactly gets absorbed,
you know, into the system andwhat it actually really can do.
So I mean, if you have a choice, I always say the physical or
(07:11):
the mineral blockers aredefinitely, we know are safer.
The extent of safety I don'tthink anyone really knows, but
in my opinion any sunscreen isbetter than getting a melanoma.
So any sunscreen is better thangetting a melanoma.
So any sunscreen.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Because I think that's true.
You know, like part of it is.
You know what are youcomfortable with.
So the thought of using one ofthe chemical type component
sunscreens really freaks you out.
And yeah, stick with themineral.
You know I try to encouragepeople to.
You know, we do know that thereis some absorption of some of
these materials, like chemicals,into the body from sunscreen
use, but we really don't knowwhat to make of that.
(07:47):
Does that necessarily mean thatthey're causing harm?
Right, and I think the jury'sstill out.
We need more data.
So you're right, usingsunscreen regardless whether you
choose a mineral or chemical,one's great.
Or maybe do a hybrid.
There's lots that combine itnow that some people like the
benefits.
You know both and maybe thatcan get the best of both worlds.
(08:09):
But I get where people are kindof concerned because I think
when they're looking at thelabel, you know they're reading
oh, is this mineral or what arethese chemical names, like you
mentioned some of the examples.
And then they're also lookingat SPF.
But a lot of people don'treally know what SPF means.
Do you mind explaining that alittle bit to give people a
better idea, if they're lookingat that label, what SPF refers?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
to.
Yeah, so sun protection factor.
So that is the level ofprotection that this product or
this sunscreen is going to giveyou from preventing a sunburn.
So it's measured by the, it'scalculated and measured by the
minimal erythema dose.
So what they did when they testit out is they apply a
(08:43):
sunscreen to an area of skin onthe body Sorry, they apply
sunlight or UVA or UVB to anarea of skin and then they also
apply an area of sunscreen tothe same area, a layer of
sunscreen to the area, and theycalculate how long it takes for
each spot to burn.
So if with sunscreen on, ittakes 150 minutes to burn and
(09:07):
without sunscreen it takes 10minutes, you now have SPF 15,
because it gets divided 150 by10.
And that's how they figure outthose numbers.
So when they measure the SPF,though, it really only refers to
blocking UVB, not so much UVA,and that really applies to the
chemical blockers, excuse me.
(09:27):
So we know the avobenzones andthe octacrylates.
You know those are a little bitbetter with UVA.
The mineral and the physicalones we know are a little bit
better with UVA and UVB.
So another reason why it'sbetter to use the mineral
sunscreens because they're moreof a broad spectrum that word
(09:47):
that we keep hearing listed onsunscreens.
So the ones that can reallyonly list the sunscreen brands
that can only that can listbroad spectrum excuse me are the
ones that have the minerals, sothe titanium dioxide and the
zinc oxide.
So another reason why those aregoing to be better for you
because they block more UVA andUVB at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So it sounds like that's what we should be looking
for on that label right An SPFBroad spectrum.
Yes, broad spectrum are the twothings to make sure we're
hitting those UVA and UVB rays,and we'll talk a little bit more
about specificity with SPF,maybe what you would recommend.
But there's also this conceptof like the PA rating of
sunscreen, and I think somepeople have heard of it here in
(10:29):
the United States, but it'sdefinitely better known in other
countries or parts of Asia.
Do you mind explaining a littlebit what the PA rating is, in
case somebody does see a bunchof positive signs on their label
and they're wondering what isthat?
Even referring to?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, so this was used to test the level of the
UVA protection.
It's the protection grade ofUVA and right, there are pluses.
So one plus is going to be likeminimally protective against
UVA.
Lots of pluses are going to bemuch more.
You know, it's a gradient theretoo, but that's going to let us
know what's helping to blockthe UVA rays.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
And then if you have people that are looking for the
extra bonus, you know they can.
Okay, this says broad spectrum.
I got my SPF.
Maybe there's a PA rating.
What about?
They're going to be in water alot If they're, you know, going
to be swimming, or maybe theyjust tend to sweat a lot.
What should they be looking foron their label as well?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So, they want to look for water resistant
no-transcript.
So that's going to measure howlong this sunscreen will be able
to kind of protect the waterfrom seeping in and washing off
(11:45):
the sunscreen.
So it can either be 40 minutesor 80 minutes.
Obviously look for 80 minutesso it lasts longer.
But I'm sure you do the samething.
I always tell my patients ifyou're going to be out in the
beach or the lake or you'regoing to be sweating and
somewhere you're going to getwater on your skin after
applying sunscreen, you want tomake sure that you reapply.
I say every hour.
(12:06):
I know the AAD, you know andprobably the American Cancer
Society all say every two hours,but I just don't think people
listen.
So you know compliance is suchan issue.
So I say if you're going to beout all day sweating and getting
wet, reapply every hour.
Yeah, I think it's human natureright.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
You give people an inch, they take a mile.
So I think you short that alittle bit, even though you're
right.
Our guidelines are maybe givepeople a little bit more
leniency, which I think that'swhat a lot of people want to
know.
Okay, like if you wouldsummarize you know what?
Minimal SPF?
What should my label say?
How often should I reapply?
What do you tell your patientswith sunscreen?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I sound like a broken record after a skin cancer
screening and I feel like mystaff like want to like just
fall asleep standing.
But I say you know, I say stayout of the sun.
If you have to be in the sun,let it not be between 10am and
2pm, but if you do stay in theshade, you know, cover, like I
said with.
You know, long sleeves, a hat,sunglasses, apply your sunscreen
(13:08):
.
I always say apply it 20minutes before going out in the
sun.
Even with the physical blockersor the mineral blockers, they
don't get absorbed and theystart working immediately.
But just in case someone's notusing a physical blocker, like I
recommend, and they're using achemical one that takes about 20
minutes to absorb in the skin,so I tell them the second.
(13:30):
You get to the beach and youknow, get all set up.
That's not when you should putyour sunscreen on.
You should put it on whenyou're getting your bathing suit
on, you know, getting ready togo out to the beach or the pool,
and then I say reapply everyhour if you're going to be out
there all day in the sun.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Those are my keys.
And how often do you think theyactually listen to your
recommendation?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You know, I think they want to.
I think it's hard, though, youknow, when you're at the beach
and you know playing and youknow just having fun, to stop
and say, wait, I got to put mysunscreen on is is a little bit,
um, a little bit hard to do, sothat's why, again, I like the
SPF, uh, the UPF clothing um, alittle bit hard to do.
So that's why, again, I likethe SPF, uh, the UPF clothing,
um, and and sitting in the shadeas much as you can.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, I think that's the hard part.
You know some protection ingeneral is a lot of work, right,
like I think we're.
All.
Even myself as a dermatologist,I mean I can be as lazy as the
next person and my husbandalways makes fun of me because
he says, oh, it's you and thefive-year-olds with your rash
guards on, you know, when we goto the beach.
But it's a lot of work, youknow, to keep reapplying,
chasing the kids down, and so Ialways tell people you know it
does take a little bit ofdedication to get used to it in
(14:38):
a routine, but it can work ifyou actually do it.
Once people get the buy-in,they definitely see the benefit
for it.
And I think, too, sunscreen isinteresting Now that we're
coming up.
You know spring's upon us.
People are getting ready forthose spring break trips or even
thinking about where they'regoing to travel this summer.
Should they use their sunscreenfrom last year?
Or what do you think aboutexpiration dates?
What do you tell people to lookfor?
(14:59):
Because a lot of thosesunscreens have been thrown in
the car, you know, for weeks onend or the end of the summer.
Maybe they were in their hot.
You know beach bag down at thebeach.
How do you educate people onjust expiration of sunscreens?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I tell them it's really important because, while
other things can have a littlebit of a longer shelf life, you
don't want to mess around withyour sunscreen because we really
don't know.
If it does say April 2025, areyou going to use the Memorial
Day weekend a month later?
We really don't know what itmeans with the shelf life when
it wears out, and that's notsomething you want to risk.
You know, putting on asunscreen that you think is
going to work and then you get aburn, you know, then years
(15:37):
later, you end up with the skincancer.
So I think expiration dates aresuper important and, and
speaking of that as well, thesunscreens that are laying
around in your trunk or, youknow, in your beach bag, that
you put in, you know, yourgarage for the winter, I always
recommend for your full body,you should use one ounce, you
know.
So picture a shot glass thatshould cover your entire body
(16:00):
and I, you know, I tease mypatients and say that, like you
know, four ounce bottle of, likeCoppertone which I don't get
this anymore, just age myself,but you know that four ounce
bottle, like if you're a familyof four, you should use it at
one beach trip, or even justthat you know.
On your way to the beach, youneed to have backups with you.
So, exploration data, I think issuper important and that's not
(16:21):
something you want to risk.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
When it comes to sunscreen, Not at all I know we
kind of talked about labelingand stuff we're seeing now on
sunscreen how much to put on.
What are your thoughts onsunscreen and kind of this?
You know concept behind likethe high energy visible light
and you know kind of makingcomments about that on sunscreen
labels.
Is that something that you talkto patients a little bit about,
(16:45):
about how that can contributemaybe to skin issues as well?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I do to an extent, but I think there's still not a
lot known out there about it.
So I mean, I've just alwayssaid it and I still think it
holds up, no matter what.
Always wear your sunscreen,even if you're just going out to
the mailbox to get your youknow, your mail or your
newspaper.
Like it's just lights comingfrom everywhere and we're
learning more and more aboutright the, the effects or the
(17:12):
benefits of visible light, youknow?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, I feel like a bit more concerned, like you and
I sitting at the computer rightnow, like what kind of exposure
are we getting?
You know the blue light?
Or people are on their phonesall day and kind of wondering
you know, what's that going todo to my skin?
You know, in the long run andyou're right, I think we don't
know necessarily for skin cancerper se, but definitely I guess
if somebody is prone tohyperpigmentation or those types
of changes, they might be alittle bit more concerned.
(17:37):
Or, you know, looking for thoseiron oxides and sunscreens.
You know that might be helpful,you know, to kind of help with
that potentially and that'sanother thing on the label.
I feel like checking all thesethings off can definitely be
challenging, but at higher SPFspeople can also get that
additional protection, which Ithink is useful too if they're
kind of concerned about that.
Because I think, although youknow we focus on sunscreens, you
(17:57):
know quite a bit, I thinkwhat's hard is there's just so
many sunscreens out there, right, people are like what do I get?
Do I get a spray?
Do I get a stick?
Do I get a lotion?
You know, and I try to explainto people, you know we kind of
call that the vehicle, the wayyour sunscreen, how it comes
packaged or how it's sort ofdelivered to you and how you're
going to put it on.
Can you kind of clarify, youknow, for people out there that
are thinking, oh, sprays don'twork as good as lotions, or they
(18:20):
don't work as good as sticks,like what do you tell your
patients?
If they're you know, I tellthem, whatever sunscreen,
whatever vehicle, like youmentioned, they're comfortable
with.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's the one that they should stick to, because
that's the one that's going towork, because that's the one
they're going to use.
So I like the sticks, I likethe lotions, I like the sprays.
What a lot of people fail torealize with the sprays is that
you do have to rub it in, justlike a lotion and just like a
stick.
You can't just spray it andthink you're good, you know, you
spray it just for ease of, Ithink, application, but then it
(18:55):
does need to be rubbed in forsure.
I also, like I have a lot ofpatients, you know, always doing
marathons in the city andthey're always outside running,
so they're sweating all the timeand they don't want to put
sunscreen on their face becausethey feel like it gets in their
eyes or in their mouth.
So then I recommend, like thepowders Color Science was
(19:16):
probably, I think, one of thefirst brands to create like
powdered sunscreen.
There's clear ones, there'stinted ones, whatever people
want.
And even for the scalp, likethe part line, I always
recommend sunscreen when peopleare out and if they don't want
to do a spray or a lotion intheir hair, like I wouldn't I
don't know if you would.
I always recommend the powdersfor that too.
I think it's really helpful.
(19:37):
So I think vehicle doesn'treally matter, just as long as
it's applied properly and it'sused appropriately, like we've
said about 20 times already onthis talk.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, I think we've all been on the beach before and
see people spraying.
No, they're holding out hereand most of it is dropping to
the ground, not even coming incontact with their skin, and I'm
like, well, yeah, that'sprobably why it didn't work,
even though it's in the springand blowing in the wind.
Exactly.
This brings up another pointhow you mentioned just paying
attention to the part line inyour scalp, because a lot of
people do think, oh, I totallyforget about my scalp and wind
(20:08):
up burning.
What about lips?
Do you have any recommendationsfor what people should do for
their lips, because that'sanother area that gets neglected
with sunscreen use.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Absolutely.
It's for me.
I always remind patients lipsand ears, because when I do a
screening and I see lots offreckles on the ears, I always
remind my patients.
It's so easy to forget yourears, you know, when you're
applying your sunscreen.
Don't forget that.
And your lips, a lot of that.
I say, if you can, if you cantolerate it, put your sunscreen
on your lips too.
I know it's kind of yuckytasting, but the great thing is
(20:38):
there are so many lip productsout there now that put SPF.
Aquaphor has a couple of greatones.
Even I think Clinique has theirMoisture Surge Lip has some SPF
in it.
So I always recommend gettingany kind of lip balm or any kind
of lip sunscreen, for thatmatter, as well.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
And I have to ask because I feel like this is what
more and more patients arecoming in.
You know again, we talked aboutall the different products.
They go down the sunscreenaisle.
They're like where do I evenstart?
You know, they're feeling them,they're smelling them, trying
to figure out what's going to bethe best one.
Like you said, one that theylove is one they're going to use
.
What's all the hype and therage with Korean sunscreens that
you'll see on social media andpeople are just asking about?
(21:19):
And how do you, you know, talkthat through with patients about
what you think they're valuablefor?
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Well, Korean skincare has been trending for quite a
while now, with snail mucin andbone tallow and whatever the
heck else is out there, right?
I don't know if that's Korean,but just I'm talking about
trending things.
I think Koreans do a reallygreat job of making their
skincare routine more of like aritual.
(21:45):
Making their skincare routinemore of like a ritual, not so
much as, like you know, theirchores or a morning routine.
So a lot of their products are,you know, with skincare in mind
.
So I think that also shows thattheir sunscreens also put a
little bit more effort, you know, in skincare into it as well.
So a lot of the Korean brandsout there now have a combination
, like you mentioned earlier,with the physical blockers and
the chemical blockers as well.
So a lot of the Korean brandsout there now have a combination
(22:06):
, like you mentioned earlier,with the physical blockers and
the chemical blockers as well.
Um, but they also infuse themwith nice things like
niacinamide, hyaluronic acid.
Um, Centella Asiatica or Cicais in a lot of their products
now too.
So I think it's it's becomingmore, you know, trending or in
vogue, or because it's more likeluxurious, you know, more of a
(22:31):
ritual than just like I got toput my sunscreen on today, so I
think that's a big feature and anice factor of the Korean
sunscreen products out there.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I think their approach could benefit a lot of
people.
Like you said, like I think wedo approach sometimes their
skincare regimen like it is sucha chore or one more thing to
put on our list because peopleare busy.
You know, no matter who you are, you've got busy days, and
especially in the morning whenyou're barely awake and having
coffee yet and you've got totake care of your skin.
Or at night, you know it's beena crazy day and you just want
to fall into bed.
(23:01):
They might have the rightapproach and I, like the.
You said that that putting yoursunscreen on doesn't
necessarily have to be a chore.
It's just a part of self-carefor your skin.
So they may be onto somethingthere, because I've seen some of
the feedback and people talkabout that or that.
Their lighter weight or, youknow, some of their mineral
blockers blend a little bitbetter and you don't see as much
(23:22):
as that white hue.
And they may have some filtersthat we don't have.
You know that aren't approvedin the United States.
But philosophy you mentioned issomething that we should try to
approach that you know.
Sun protection is a part of,you know, self-care, just like
you said, or a ritual.
There's a psychological benefitto doing that, not just work at
the end of the day.
But I know it's philosophy wealways want to do and it's
brilliant to combine things.
(23:42):
I think in our busy lifestyleyou know, doing combo products
is wonderful.
If you can get antioxidants inwith your sunscreen or other
things, that's just a bonus, atotal bonus.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, pulling double and triple duty.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Exactly, exactly.
That is the world we live in.
Any other thoughts on sunscreenor you know things you want to
leave the audience with today onyour thoughts on sunscreen as
they head out this summer.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
As a dermatopathologist and a Mohs
surgeon, I hate to scare peopleand I don't want to say threaten
, but I always tell my patientsyou would much rather just feel
uncomfortable for a few hours atthe beach with your sunscreen
than have me or someone elsecome at you with a scalpel, you
know, to have a skin cancerremoved.
It's scary, you know it's.
(24:24):
At the end of the day it'ssurgery.
You know you're havingsomething of your skin removed
because it's got cancer.
You know, and I always just tryto put a little fear into
people to get them to use theirsunscreen.
But, um, you know, and the laststatement that we mentioned, too
, I try to make it seem likeit's a ritual.
(24:44):
You know a lot of the.
You know the sunscreens now,like, especially for women, um,
or people who are interested indoing makeup, you know this,
they're being combined.
You know a lot of the skincareproducts now also have sunscreen
in them.
Um, a lot of them are in inpowders and foundations and you
know I just try to, you know,show people that it's, it's not
(25:04):
a chore.
You know it really can be likemore of a ritual or you know
something that you can enjoydoing for yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
But you bring up a good point that we can talk
about.
What do you tell women say, oh,I'm good on sunscreen, it's in
my foundation, and they kind ofblow off, like maybe using
sunscreen elsewhere, maybe don'tthink about, hey, there's other
places you don't put yourfoundation.
What do you tell women aboutthat Cause, think about, hey,
there's other places you don'tput your foundation.
What do you tell women aboutthat?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Because that's a good point, even though we're sort
of summarizing everything.
What do you tell them about themakeup issue and sunscreen?
I say it's good that there areyour skincare products that you
like that are infused withsunscreen.
Please make sure it's 30 orhigher.
15, I don't think is enough, Ieven prefer 50, but I'll take 30
if that's what's there.
But then I remind them, everysun exposed area needs to be
covered.
So even you know, if you'rewalking outside and you put
(25:53):
sunscreen on your face andyou're, you know you're wearing
like a tank top, you know, or at-shirt, what about your neck?
What about your chest?
What about the backs of yourhands?
You know you got to remember toput sunscreen everywhere.
And if you're putting yourmakeup there with sunscreen,
that's fine, but you probablyaren't.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
So make sure you're putting sunscreen on those areas
too.
Good final thoughts.
So sunscreen or be afraid ofthe scalpel, according to Well,
thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
This has been great.
I think people are going tolearn so much about just
sunscreen things they haven'treally thought of and then kind
of a way to just, you know, makeit a part of the routine.
Like you said, think of it asself-care, like anything else
(26:32):
that we're recommending, youknow, for our patients to do.
So thanks again for coming onchatting more with us.
For our listeners that theywant to find you where can they
locate you online or more aboutyour practice.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Sure, my practice is called True Dermatology in New
York City.
We're in Flatiron.
I'm on Instagram DrSpizDerm,TikTok the same, and Facebook,
so if anyone wants to, just youknow, check out my tips, find me
there.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Well, thanks again for coming on the podcast.
It was great to chat with you,as always.
And stay tuned for the nextepisode of Dermot Trotter Don't
Swear About Skincare.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Thanks for listening to Dermot Trotter.
For more about skincare, visitDermotTrottercom.
Don't forget to subscribe,leave a review and share this
podcast with anyone who needs alittle skincare sanity.
Until next time, stay skinsmart.
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