December 12, 2024 • 38 mins
#A little side note. I now pronounce Cannes without the S. Hey, I'm a working class northern lad raised on Catchphrase and 'say what you see'. You should hear me pronounce baguette! Anyway, moving on...
Join us on an enchanting journey with Emmy-nominated animator and director Richard Bazley, as he shares the remarkable story of his path from the idyllic Devon countryside to the bustling world of animation in Los Angeles. Richard's dream, sparked by a Disney book from his mother, led him through uncharted waters, serendipitously landing his first industry role on "Who Framed Roger Rabbit." His experiences paint a vivid picture of resilience and creativity, offering valuable insights into the relentless pursuit of one's dreams.
In this episode, we also celebrate the magic of cinema. We reminisce about working with iconic actor Tom Conti and reflect on influential films that have shaped our love for the medium, such as "Star Wars," "Spartacus," and "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad." Richard shares how these cinematic marvels inspired his childhood creativity with Lego and clay, before diving into the emotional depth of films like "Crash" and "The Sixth Sense."
Let us know where we're going wrong....or, like, right...maybe.
Follow the adventure, support the show, listen with both ears - https://linktr.ee/DesertIslandGamer
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Desert Island Drive-In, the Desert
Island Gamer spin-off show with10 toes dipped into the film
Happy Lagoon.
One Desert Island, one guest,three wonderful films, one
woeful film and a big screencharacter.
It could be weird, it could beunhinged, it could will have
(00:20):
crappy sound quality, but atleast it will still be short To
the driving.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Today.
Welcome, richard Baisley, adear friend, collaborator and a
man who is very close, in myopinion, to needing no
introduction at all.
Richard, welcome.
Oh, great to be here, neil.
Great to see you.
It's great to see you too.
It's been a while, actually,since we've been face to face.
It's often emails and a littlewhile.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah, I mean we talk so much um on the phone and on
facebook I did uh dip in quicklyto see when our collaboration
started.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
it was actually December 23rd three years ago,
so we're close to a three-yearmilestone.
Wow.
And in that time twoaward-winning short films out in
the white house.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, we've really packed it in in a short space of
time.
Well, I think those two yearsago I'd been hunting around for
uh, ironically a cornish writerfor uh find one of them george
and the dragon couldn't getfurther away from that, but um.
So when I first contacted you Ithought you were cornish.
Yeah and um.
You know about my, mygrandfather.
(01:35):
We can talk more about thatlater.
You know, um, yeah, how timeflies.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
If anyone doesn't know richard and his work, it's
been a pretty spectacular lifelived so far emmy nominated,
animating credits on massivedisney films, big animating
credits on what is now regardingcult classic or maybe just an
absolute childhood classic inthe iron giant and now an
award-winning and award-winninglive action director with
(02:02):
unscripted speeches made in cansand working with Tom Conti.
Yeah, you've had something of arollercoaster.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It's been a real journey from a Devon boy born
out in the countryside whodreamt of going to Disney.
My mum bought me a book when Iwas 10 years old called the
Disney Film by Leonard Moulton,and it was all in black and
white and I used to flickthrough the book.
On the back pages there werepictures of Disney World that
was in Florida.
I said, mum, can we go there?
And she said well, you've gotto be rich to go there.
(02:33):
This was in the days beforecheap flights to Miami.
Little did I know, 20 odd yearslater, that I would be taking
my mum, my dad, six guests forfree to Disneyland in LA because
I was working there as a leadanimator.
It all makes it sound very easy.
It's not.
It's been a hell of a journeyand you have to go through.
Such ability is part of it, andI tell people the key thing is
(02:58):
persistence, because you canhave all the ability in the
world, but if you don't persist,you won't get those.
Breaks don't happen, and mostpeople give up before, just
before they're going to succeed.
So all those people that havebeen hugely successful, they
failed more times than anyone.
Uh, they just picked themselvesoff up again, I don't know how
I picked myself up because Idon't have a thick skin, but
(03:19):
somehow I do and it gives memore, uh, determination to on.
So yeah, so it's a long, longstory from being in Devon and
going to the States, but I diddo an art degree up in Liverpool
ironically in publicity ingraphic design, because
(03:41):
animation wasn't reallyconsidered a career back then.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
A little they knew.
Yeah, little did they know.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, it was for a short spell for me a brilliant
career because it was a veryclassical 2D period and I went
to London where I was working asa junior art director and the
company was taken over and weall got laid off and I was
looking around and thought, well, what do I really want to do?
Advertising wasn't really doingit for me and they were making
who Framed Roger Rabbit.
And I went up to Camden wherethey were making it.
(04:10):
They were making it therebecause of Richard Williams, the
great Canadian but based inBritain, commercials director,
and he was the animationdirector on it and I went up and
did what's called an in-betweentest and he was away that day
so I was at his desk.
The in-betweens are what you doat the bottom level.
The animators do their roughdrawings and because there's so
(04:32):
many hundreds of drawings, thein-betweeners do the drawings in
between.
And I'd been teaching myself ona coffee table, a glass coffee
table with a light underneath,and I had this book by Preston
Blair and did studies and wentalong and did the test and they
asked me to do evening classes,which I did for seven or eight
(04:53):
weeks and at the end of that,after testing hundreds of people
, they picked a handful of us asin-betweens, so that was an
incredible break.
Yeah, what an amazing,groundbreaking film A
groundbreaking film and then sixmonths later we were laid off.
I think it was the exchangerate.
They were going to keep goingbut they closed the studio and
(05:14):
there was no way they would takeme to the States as an
in-betweener.
You know, they weren't fullytrained animators already and
immigration has to prove thatthey can't hire an American to
do that job.
So it was another five years.
I went to Manchester, cosgroveHall, handocula, classic, yeah,
I guess.
So I didn't like doing it, oh,no.
(05:35):
Then I went to Ireland to workat Donbass Studios and became a
lead animator.
So after five years of hardgraft, yeah, I applied to disney
.
They passed, so I thought thatwas it.
Now, a year later, I saw an adin the dublin uh times, or
whatever it's called, and theywere looking for animators and I
(05:56):
applied again, but to the parisstudio, thinking well, uh,
might be a better chance there.
And then I got a call the weekafter saying we want to hire you
.
I said great, when and where.
I said in LA next week, wow.
And then within two years I wasa lead animator.
I've worked on Pocahontas, yeah, and John Smith, and then, as a
(06:17):
lead animator on Hercules ofthe Earth Parents.
I'm Fittrion Alcm and acharacter called Demetrius, so
that was one hell of anexperience.
And I ended up being in LA notall the time at Disney, but I've
been there for seven years, so,yeah, quite a journey, dreams
coming true for sure, the wholebig picture you've got, like
(06:42):
this incredible journey.
Are there any particular momentswhere suddenly be aware of
where you are, what you're doing, as like how, this is like the
most incredible place to beright now and yeah, I mean, you
have to pinch yourself and alsorealize, um, it's in that moment
and you've got to try and keepgoing on that journey, like I
guess when I was over in canpicking up an award.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, of course, noise in your eye on stage
Grabbing the microphone off thehost.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, yeah, nobody had done a speech before then,
and AD by the way I should saythat was Noise in your Eye did
the music, such as AdrianChivers and Daniel Panay, and
they have an ensemble ofmusicians including Nick Mason
on drums, which is in our filmand then, with AD, grabbed the
mic.
No one was doing speeches untilthen and he grabbed the mic and
(07:30):
then suddenly shoved it in myface.
So there was nothing prepared.
So I came up with something,but I did have to pinch myself
when I said it's great to behere in Cannes picking up this
award.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, I mean it did feel.
I've seen the speech, obviouslyand like it feels like it's
been prepared and I know youjust ad-libbed it and it was
totally off the cuff.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
So I'm there on the stage trying to thank everyone I
can and I have no memory fornames, but sometimes I can even
forget my own name if you ask meon stage.
But what I realised when I wasover in Cannes is that this
entire process it's teamwork andgetting great people together,
(08:12):
and one of the best thingsthat's happened to me in the
business was to connect with youthose few years ago and to find
a writer that can take my verybasic ideas and turn them into a
coherent story of worth and um.
So both our films, um censureand confines would not exist
(08:33):
without your incrediblecraftsmanship in your writing I
just can't thank you enough forwhat you've done well.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
That's absolutely echoed straight back at you the
chance, chance sort of encounterwe had via Twitter when it was
still called Twitter.
What that's led to in terms ofthe awards, I can see just over
your shoulder there and outthere.
The feedback we've received hasbeen incredible.
The fact that we can both haveTom Conti down as a collaborator
(09:03):
as well.
But, like you said, the biggestthing is, like with indie film
and with what we did, there wasno financial.
It wasn't driven by money, itwasn't driven by any financial
reward.
It was just all about a groupof like-minded people coming
together with this like desireto make a film, because the
traditional route of goingthrough production companies and
(09:25):
everything else is just such aheadache.
We just had this it's a massiveheadache.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
They call it development hell.
Um, and so many projects um getcancelled, will never get made
and sit on a shelf, and Iremember um alan parker, the
great filmmaker, saying hecouldn't believe how many
amazing films we just sat therelying on a shelf, which which
makes you wonder when you seesome of the films that are made
how the hell does that happen?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Which we'll talk about later.
Yeah, it's been phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Well, the big thing about the films that we've made
is that for years, as you said,I've worked on a lot of big, big
movies, which is great, but Ididn't produce and direct and I
had a small role.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So Hercules was amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I mean, it's fantastic to have that
experience to be there and theexperience that I've got.
Um, they let me direct some ofthe live action auditions.
People come in because we usedlive action reference um, for my
characters, um, so thedirectors were there for a
couple of shoots and then theytake off and say, okay, you take
over and uh, you know, suddenlythe best way is just to be
thrown in the deep end.
(10:26):
Warner Brothers In Between theIron Giant another great film
and Osmosis Jones, which I thinkis a terrific film.
We had six months they kept ahandful of us on full pay
without production work, andthey sent us to classes every
day.
So that was my university infilm.
So we had story classes withChris Vogler who wrote the
(10:46):
Hero's Journey.
He would come in week afterweek.
We'd have free classesIncredible.
We'd have acting classes, allsorts, and all of that stuff has
prepared me for censure andconfines and our future films,
our own feature projects thatwe're trying to get made I've
had.
I've had other ones kickingaround for years one with gary
(11:07):
kurtz, few star wars, darkcrystal sadly he's passed away,
so, um, I'm still trying to getthat one made called the
chimeria in a terrific tv series.
It's with a big Hollywoodproducer right now.
We'll see where that goes.
But I got frustrated.
One project fall through, uh,with a very big name.
That fell through.
And then that's when I said toJohn Fry.
I said, look, let's just gomake a film.
(11:28):
He's got all that.
He's a brilliant DOP.
Johnny Fry, phenomenal,fantastic cinematographer.
Mainly does corporate work.
But I said let's just go.
We're going to do anotherproject together and that
project had fallen through thefinance.
So I said let's just do it.
Let's just do it.
So I came up with a basic ideawhich you developed and made
(11:49):
work with this character, withall these voices off screen,
originally during COVID, as away to make a film.
Yeah, because we couldn't haveclose proximity and all that
stuff.
But when we came out oflockdown I said to you I said,
look, I think this is a coolidea, let's just make it.
So you took it, created thisincredible uh structure and
world that we had and we kepteverything local, all in one
(12:10):
spot, so we didn't have loads ofcompany moves all in the
village, all in one building.
Um, and somebody said the otherday you're building the
ebenezer chapel.
It's almost like a character initself.
You know, yeah, that's right umuh in the so.
When we went and did a recce andlooked at the place AD Chimbers
happens to own that building,the composer, yep and we had a
(12:33):
look and I remember going intothe bathroom and thinking, oh
boy, I've got an idea here,because it's so cool, it's like
a Stanley Kubrick, it's thislong room.
And I said to you, let's have ain the bathtub, his stepsister
breaking him outside and just onhim with a slow truck in, and
that's it, a few other cuts.
And John said to me, oh, shouldwe have him turn around?
(12:54):
I said no, no, no, just keep iton him, just keep him, you know
.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
So that worked out very well.
What's great in the trailer aswell?
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
And the whole.
If we set that in a normalbuilding, I wouldn't give away
the ending, but as we have thefinal scene, it's from the
balcony where we've got a largearea in which we can tell the
conclusion of the film, whichwouldn't work in a small lounge.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
No, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So I knew that would work.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
It was almost.
Everything just came together.
There were no weak links, itwas all just everything clicked.
One of the maddest things forme was I always remember I gave
you, I sent the final draft ofthe script over and within it
was probably less than a month,within like 24, 28 days, we were
getting our first award and itwas like what the hell is going
(13:42):
on?
I remember being sad.
I was having a bit of food withmy wife in town and then I
think you pinged me the messagesaying oh, we won best shot film
in Cannes.
That was Cannes as well, whichwas like yeah, but it happened
so fast.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
But I think one of the motivations.
When you were working on thescript, I talked to Tom Conti
and he said I'd be happy to dosomething for you here and I
think that motivated us all.
Bloody hell, we've got TomConti, let's just get him done
in the can and I said, john,let's go.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Let's go Grab your cameras.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, before he goes.
Oh, I'm busy again.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Exactly before he changes his mind, and I'm
forever grateful for Tom Contijust an incredible actor to have
done that.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
What credit to have on the first film.
Amazing, and just the fact that, like in terms of pinch
yourself, moments to know thatTom Connolly was reading these
lines for myself was just like.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I mean, he didn't have to do it and he was just
off after that, or was it before, around that time doing
Oppenheimer yeah yeah, and he'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Without censure he wouldn't have got Oppenheimer.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I shall say that to him.
I think he'll laugh.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
That's great.
Back on to other films I'mtaking you right back to, I
guess, the acorn.
Before you became engrossed inthis journey.
Are there any moments where yourealised this is something
special, where you fell in lovewith film?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, I think for a lot of people Star Wars was just
mind-blowing, and back in thosedays there hadn't been a lot of
science fiction films.
I don't know if it was whenWesterns were big, I forget but
Star Wars came along and bleweverything out of the water.
In fact, it's like a Westernspace in many ways and see that
when you think how they didthose effects with multiple
(15:26):
passes, um, and the way they hadto do it wasn't digital, uh, it
was incredibly complex.
And you know, you have thosescenes, all the spaceships, the
models in a in in a warehouse,in van eyes, as they move around
, and I think it's in one ofthem.
They even have like a somebodyput in like a little shoe, a
training shoe, in in amongst thespaceships and the asteroids,
(15:47):
but um, there's probably lots ofstuff like that.
But, um, how they did thosefilms back then, um, and in many
ways I kind of enjoy theeffects we'll talk about this
later when we do the desertisland section um, the way they
did those effects then I enjoyedmore because they had to make
certain choices, but I saidwe'll go into that well, I'll
(16:07):
tell you what it's.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Good news, bad news You're crawling from the
wreckage of the plane on thedeserted desert island, but
luckily you've got what everysurvivor needs, and that's three
great films to see you throughthe next X amount of years.
Might not even be great films,but for you they've been
important, they've mattered andthey've meant something during
(16:29):
the course of your life.
You also get to choose one filmthat has perpetually let you
down, that we burn for heat onthe island, and you will get to
choose a movie companion to joinyou on the island.
But before we kick into yourchoices of three, are there any
films that were close to makingthe list but just fell short?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely well, it's really
hard to pick out yes, reallyespecially when you're so
invested in film, as you said?
Yeah, I can't.
I don't know how it doesn'tmake the list of three.
How do you do that?
But I remember spartacus as ayoungster now, although directed
by stanley kubrick, I think itwas his last hollywood big
hollywood film and it put himoff for life because he had
(17:09):
executives telling him why areyou on the wide for so long?
He wanted to show thespectacular side.
He knows what he's doing.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
But even you know he had all this exact interference.
And I just remember thespectacle and the journey and I
remember as a kid I was thatyoung I had Lego and I would
make a Colosseum out of Lego andthis was before we had all the
colour, all the rest of it.
I think it was probably one ortwo colours back then, yeah,
(17:37):
yeah, and I painted the damnthing.
I ruined all the Lego because Ipainted it and I had these
characters and I put littlemodel gladiators.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
You were all right as long as you wanted to build a
coliseum.
Every time I wanted to build acoliseum, that's one.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
There's.
The golden voyage of Sinbadmade a massive impact as a
youngster and teenager, onebecause of the centaur in there
was just an incredible thing,stop motion by Ray Harryhausen,
an incredible creature.
And I went off again and I gota framework in in um, what, why?
(18:12):
I made the framework, then haddust, clay and made the model
and painted it and all andeverything else.
Oh, wow.
And one of the other thingsthat stuck out that was probably
more of my teams was, uh,carolyn monroe is in it.
So that's.
I even have a picture of hersign.
Oh, I believe.
Yeah, I've seen the picture.
Yeah, yeah, right behind on theon the wall here.
I met her at a convention.
(18:32):
I remember my exact age, causeI actually went on my first date
, which didn't go well because Iwas so into the film, so you
know.
But, but I remember I was 14and I went to see the Golden
Voyage of Simba at the cinema.
What a film.
And there's hundreds more.
Oh, my goodness, it's a definiteadventure, adventure theme
(18:54):
running through I'm just tryingto make sure that I've kept my
three when we get to go back.
Crash is an incredible filmbecause films are about moments.
Yeah moments, yeah, yeah, ifyou can remember, like you know,
like a sixth sense, um, at theend of the film, when bruce
willis drops the ring and yourealize he's a ghost all the
time.
Yeah, wow, I, you know, youdon't necessarily remember the
(19:15):
whole story, but you rememberthat moment and the emotional
impact yes, yeah the film'sabout a moment.
Iron giant has that moment, um,but it's set up at the end when,
when the uh giant sacrificeshimself to the bomb to help save
the people.
Um, early on in the story,bradbury had put a scene in
where he's sitting down with theboy and bonding with him and
(19:36):
they're going through the comics, the superhero comics, and they
go through and say that'srobotron, that's a bad guy, and
the robots, like a child suckingup, is this superman?
He's a good guy.
So when he's flying through theair at the end and he knows
he's going to sacrifice himself,and he says superman in that
voice yeah, literally you're intears it's brilliant, they're
(19:59):
your cultural ones, but whatwould you have as the first film
that made the cut?
yeah, yeah.
The first one is because ofmemories and my childhood and
the way things were back then.
It's just nostalgic and everyChristmas it wasn't Santa.
I was most excited about it wasseeing Jason and the Argonauts.
Oh, fantastic choice.
(20:21):
It would play every Christmas.
We had no DVD, no videos, norecordings, so the only way you
could see it is in the theatreor on TV.
So we'd play like clockwork,like the Queen's Speech every
year.
So that was one of the things Ilooked forward to.
Sitting down every time, Inever ceased to be like in awe
(20:44):
of the skeleton fight sequence.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, it's amazing how that stood the test of time
and it still looks breathtakingto this day.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
That was all done by one man, ray Harryhausen.
He made the models, he made thesets, he did the filming.
It took six months for him todo.
Now that wouldn't happen.
You'd have a whole team ofprobably 100 VFX artists, or
hundreds, scattered around theworld, various, you know,
sitting at computers.
In fact I've, I've been there,I've worked a bit on harry
(21:16):
potter, uh, prison of azkabanand some animation.
Oh my god, don't tell mychildren because, yeah, everyone
says how amazing that is it,but I'm far more excited about
Sanctuary Confines because it'sour film.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
And with Harry Potter .
I was one of hundreds ofartists at Framestore in London
sitting at loads of computersand never met the director,
brilliant director, alfonsoCuaron.
But you become more of atechnician and you get notes
from notes and it really wasn'tfor me and that's interesting
Once I talk about that.
(21:52):
I come from classical 2Danimation where the 2D animators
were respected and in the olddays at Disney they carried on
until the 80s until they droppedthe nine old men.
They did their best animationin their old age with CGI You're
lucky to see a person with greyhair on a computer.
It's just a different culture.
(22:13):
So I was sitting there at thesecomputers thinking this isn't
for me.
I'm going to make my own films.
It's good to have got theexperience and if I ever make
films with CGI in it, I knowexactly how to do it and how
it's done.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
But away from CGI.
Jason, Jason the Argonauts whata great choice and it's
something that still, I think,captures any audience.
Now, Kids will sit down infront of that film and it'll
still capture the imagination.
There's still even Spellbound.
It's such a good film.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
The harpies come in and he's got all the fruit
that's been left to him.
They come in and steal thefruit.
It's so dark and sinister butbeautiful.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
There's too many great moments in that film to
nail it down to.
But the skeleton scene doesalways stand out actually.
Having said that, the skeletonscene is pretty spectacular.
That's a wonderful choice, sowe're off to a flying start.
Richard, Can you keep it upwith the second film?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I can.
Jungle Book Ah, again,nostalgic reasons.
When I was a kid I saw it fivetimes.
I must have dragged my mum toit five times at the local
cinema as a youngster to see it.
It probably started myobsession with disney films, you
know.
And then you know, years later,when I was at disney uh, just
(23:32):
down the road from where I was,where I had an office there,
just down the road of flowerstreet, is what they have.
They call the arl, the animationresearch library.
We called the morgue becauseit's where all the old scenes
went.
Um, a lot of them had gone, butthey kept a lot of the old
animated scenes, the originaldrawings, in boxes down there
and you could, as an animator,you could request to go down and
(23:57):
study these and get photocopies.
So I would go down and studythem scenes from Jungle Book
that I watched as a kid and holdthe actual drawings that were
made.
That's incredible.
Now, years before I workedthere, animators could walk in
and say can I borrow that scene?
They'd borrow it.
It would never come back.
Not that I'm accusing animatorsor whoever it was.
(24:18):
So they soon cottoned on to that.
So then you had to go down.
They would come out.
You had to wear white gloves, Ithink, to handle it, and
somebody would watch it whilstyou were doing it and then you
had to hand it back.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, it's a history.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
So Jungle Book, the other scenes in there, there's
some spectacular work by one ofthe best animators ever, Milt
Karl of Shere Khan Justphenomenal acting the character
you had people doing film afterfilm that stayed together.
They weren't laid off afterevery film, and that's what you
get.
That's when film that stayedtogether.
They weren't laid off afterevery film, and that's what you
get.
That's when you keep teamstogether.
Yeah, it's a beautiful film.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
(24:51):
And also, you know, actuallythis isn't supposed to be on
this, but 101 Domations justincredible, but I could go on.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I could go on, no, no .
But there's almost like theheart back to like that classic
Disney era and I'm sure for manypeople both Jungle Book and
Jason and the Argonauts will besort of comfort blanket films as
well.
One of them where as soon asthe music kicks in, as soon as
the opening credits, they'retransported away to magical
times.
(25:20):
Yeah, two for two, no pressure,no pressure on the third.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
So Gladiator, oh wow.
I'm a big Ridley Scott fan.
What's interesting?
He came from an art background.
I think he art directed on ZedCars.
He was at the BBC, possiblyDoctor who, yeah.
So he's a very visual director.
So I relate to him, his work, alot because it's so visual and
you know I'm very visual andsometimes people think it's to
(25:48):
his detriment but I don't know.
But I always enjoy his films.
I've yet to see Napoleon, whichI'm dying to see and I've heard
so I'm looking forward toseeing it.
I hope I love it.
But Gladiator for me, isspectacular, not just in the
spectacle but of the incredibleactor Joaquin Phoenix, but of
the incredible actor JoaquinPhoenix yeah, what a guy.
(26:08):
And the theme behind it that heis neglected and not loved by
his father, marcus Aurelius.
Russell Crowe's character isobviously favoured by him.
You know the gladiator andJoaquin's desire for love, which
he can't get.
So whenever you get a villainwho you empathize with, it's
(26:30):
very powerful.
So you're kind of like, oh okay, I get that, I can get you.
You know why.
So I remember seeing a writerdo a lecture on it and how he
inserted this idea that when hekills his own father, he picks
him up and hugs him, and he hugshim to death.
Yeah, he squeezes him so tight,he suffocates him, and it's
(26:54):
very symbolic and very oh my.
Again, it's another one ofthose moments, incredibly
powerful.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Oh, yeah, yeah, so for me.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
That's on my list when I'm on the desert island.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, it's a fantastic film and Joaquin
Phoenix is just one of thoseactors who never seems to miss a
beat.
Everything he does, he seems tobe fantastic.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I would love to get him in a film, although I think
I might find him quite scary.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, he's kind of intense.
He's very intense.
I always wondered I probablyshouldn't admit this, but one
fact I always remember watchingParenthood and seeing oh, leif
Phoenix is in it, brother ofRiver Phoenix, leif.
And then I always thought Iwonder what ever happened to
Leif Phoenix without realisingthat basically he changed his
(27:40):
name to Joaquin and I'd seen hisentire career play out.
I just thought it was three ofthem.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, I thought it was River and Leaf and Wacking,
but yeah, and in the Joker he'sjust unbelievable.
Everything is so good aboutthat film, but I'm adding a film
there I can't add, but justtalking about Wacking Phoenix,
you know.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
So I mean there's probably a number of Wacking
Phoenix films that could maketheir own Desire.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah, easily.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
He's just, he's at that level.
What's?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
interesting is I was reading an interview with Ridley
Scott the other day and he wassaying how insecure Joaquin
Phoenix is and on Napoleon therewas a moment where he's like I
don't know if I can do this.
And they had to sit down and gothrough it, and he convinced
him he was right for the part.
He had to sit down and gothrough it, and he convinced him
he was right for the part.
And Ridley said well, you knowwhat I'm used to this.
(28:31):
It happened on Gladiator too, sohe bears his soul in his films,
which is why that vulnerabilityis probably so amazing now On
camera.
You know the same with PhilipSeymour Hoffman.
Yeah, there's that samevulnerability that makes them
intriguing yet intimidating.
(28:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
At the same time, it makes them more endearing as a
person, because you've got thesame imposter syndrome and
doubts that plague everyone.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
It's not your traditional moustache-twirling
villain, no, no.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's far more complex than that Fantastic.
So three pretty much perfectchoices.
Yeah, really classic.
You've got a bit of everythinggoing on there, but definitely
undeniable classics.
Yeah Well, unfortunately youneed to stay warm on the island
and somehow you've managed tograb every single copy of this
one film that you have alwaysbeen disappointed or let down by
(29:32):
.
It doesn't have to benecessarily a terrible film, but
maybe it is, but it'sdisappointed you.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, well, the beauty of film is that we all
have different tastes.
Yeah, absolutely, we all lovethe same film.
It would.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Film is that we all have different tastes yeah,
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
We all love the same film.
Boring if we all hated the samefilm, um.
So there are some films that Ilove that other people like oh,
I didn't like it, and vice versa.
So the one that I, it had allthis hype and it won all these
oscars, um.
And I thought, well, I'll haveto, I must see it.
It was everything everywhere atonce, okay.
(30:06):
So I watched it and after 15minutes I thought what the hell
is this?
And I watched some films likethat before by directors and
then got into it.
Is it the Legend of BusterSuggs?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Oh yeah, the Coen Brothers, yeah, yeah Coen
Brothers film.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I remember watching that, thinking, wow, this is
bizarre.
But by the end I really enjoyedit, it hooked me in, it got me
in.
So there are films like that.
You think what's this about?
Yeah, so I kept giving it achance.
I watched it half an hour,watched it an hour and I'm like,
oh my God, for me the conceptof multiverses everywhere and
(30:47):
that they had to do these randomacts to get them through a
wormhole to the next universe,to create that new reality.
I get all that and I watch allthese YouTube videos with Brian
Cox.
I love them.
Black holes and space and allthat stuff.
So I'm open to all that.
But as soon as they hadcharacters in another universe
with frank frida fingers, itlost me yeah, yeah if it was a
(31:08):
monty python sketch, great, thiswell.
Was it a comedy?
No, I don't.
Is it like?
I guess?
I don't know what it is, but Ijust didn't get into the
characters, I didn't get intothe world, I didn't't into the
direction.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
And I guess that's a point that took you out of the
moment you realised you werewatching something again and you
weren't.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Yeah, I wasn't.
You know, sometimes you get acharacter.
I think it's like in 12 Monkeyswith Brad Pitt that he was so
brilliant that you get engrossedin the character as much as the
film carries you through.
But there was nothing to it forme yet in one of these awards.
Well, I've got a great friendwho's a really good friend,
absolutely loves it.
(31:51):
Will we fall out about it?
Of course not.
Um, it's just a differentopinion we all have a different.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
That's the beauty of it.
Yeah, it's totally related todifferent things for different
reasons, you know, yeah, butthat's so.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
The only problem with trying to destroy that film is
it probably exists in anotheruniverse, somewhere else many,
many yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
There'll be a universe where that's your
favorite film.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yeah, be a different richard, that's right, that's
right.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Okay, so potentially controversial choice.
You also get to choose onecharacter from any film who will
be your companion on the island, your company, well, quite
actually, because if you're on adesert island you want cheering
up and good company.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I fancy a drinking buddy the character from Arthur.
I think he'd be terrificcompany, a lot of humour to pick
you up when you're down, andI'm sure we could enjoy the
coconut juice and he couldferment it into something.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
And a tremendous yeah , if only we could get Dudley
Moore if he was still around tobe in one of our films.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Ah, a magical, magical actor sorely missed yeah
very much.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, a solid selection all round, richard.
Thank you Before we head offinto the sunset, what's next on
the agenda?
I know, obviously we're workingon the next shot, which will be
we do.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
As you know, we've got the feature project brewing
George and the Dragon.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I mean, yeah, talk George and the Dragon for a
while, because the story behindthat alone is fascinating.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
When I was a youngster, my grandfather he
wasn't one to show off.
He was a working man in thequarry, he was a miner.
It was a hard life.
They were pretty poor.
Even when we bought them afridge in later years, they put
the butter on top.
There was nothing in the fridge.
They didn't know what to dowith it.
So it was a hard life, but aninteresting life, because he
also was a champion Cornishwrestler.
(33:44):
It's Cornish style.
Wrestling is a sort of amartial art, um combat, um sport
.
And hundreds of years ago,thousands before technology and
tv and radio, thousands ofpeople would turn up to these
events, thousands, um, and theywere spectacular events.
Now, when my grandfather wasalive, it wasn't that big but
there was still quite a number,and he went up a number of times
(34:08):
up to the London Palladium todo displays and he had a battle
with Yukio Tani, who was aJapanese martial arts expert and
, as you know, in a lot of filmsit's the rocky story they win.
In ours it's not exactly thesame, but we have a twist and we
have a rematch.
So I'm trying not to give toomuch away, but also we need to
(34:31):
add the drama which you're anexpert at because it's based on
fact, but we need to dramatizeit, yeah, yeah, the backstory,
which is what you uh in theprocess of doing brilliantly but
yeah, it's a cracking story andall the elements and you killed
tanny alone, the fact that Ican't remember his unbeaten
record as a martial artist, butit stretches into decades
(34:56):
incredible and and to go throughall the old footage at the bfi
and to discover my grandfather.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Actually, we never knew about that, it was just
magical.
Oh yeah, we included it, whichyou helped edit together.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, but like you, say, we found all this old
footage and all these oldstories, and then the people who
are still involved now becauseit's still going.
Carnage Wrestling is still athing.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
It's still going.
It's a handful of familiesstill doing it and it's a real
thing as well.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
I mean, the actual fights are serious, it's a
serious thing.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
yeah, and I've got another anecdote to tell.
When I was 18, I was out in thegarden messing around with my
grandad and he said to me he wasa short, stocky man, short.
But he said come here, bud,come here.
That's my best Cornish accent.
I'm afraid that was better thanmine.
And he said grab my shirt.
(35:55):
He said throw me.
I was 18.
He was probably late 70s and Itried, and I tried.
He was like late 70s and Itried, and I tried.
He was like a tree planted.
And then boom, I was on my backand my mum shagged out the
window.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
be careful with your granddad.
Oh no, that was a man who'dseen some action in his day and
had some scraps.
That's for sure.
Incredible man.
It's a great story.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I mean, the challenge is which is why I suggested to
you that we start with thesmaller film Censure and
Confines, which we could just goand make.
Raising money is always achallenge.
The executives always wantA-list actors and this and that.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
And then we also hit the COVID backlog, like the
COVID, the shutdown.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
COVID backlog.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That's right.
Yeah, left this big backlog.
But in a way it's almost likeI'm glad it did now because of
what we did after that, likegetting something out there.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It gave us a chance to reset and we concentrated on
what we could make.
And now what we can do off thesuccess of these shorts is use
that as a way to leverage to getGeorge and the Dragon and other
films off the ground.
Of course, we have anothershort in development and
(37:14):
hopefully we can get that onemade next year.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
Onwards to swimming pools,mansions and glory.
I don't know, maybe a StarbucksAdd to that swimming pools in a
hot climate.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I don't want one in my backyard.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Oh yeah.
Good point.
Yeah, oh, fantastic.
Well, I've just got to saythank you, richard.
It's been an absolute pleasurechatting to you.
Fantastic choices, as Iexpected for someone so deeply
embroiled in and entangled inthe whole film industry.
You've got an incredible storyof your own, and hopefully we're
(37:54):
only still partway through,because there's a lot of movie
mileage to go yet.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
There's a good few years in us yet mate.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Oh yes, right mate, I will take care and yes, we will
speak again soon.
Take care, all the best.
Cheers, richard.
Welcome to Desert Island Drive-In, the Desert
Island Gamer spin-off show with10 toes dipped into the film
Happy Lagoon.
One Desert Island, one guest,three wonderful films, one
woeful film and a big screencharacter.
It could be weird, it could beunhinged, it could will have
(00:20):
crappy sound quality, but atleast it will still be short To
the driving.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Today.
Welcome, richard Baisley, adear friend, collaborator and a
man who is very close, in myopinion, to needing no
introduction at all.
Richard, welcome.
Oh, great to be here, neil.
Great to see you.
It's great to see you too.
It's been a while, actually,since we've been face to face.
It's often emails and a littlewhile.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah, I mean we talk so much um on the phone and on
facebook I did uh dip in quicklyto see when our collaboration
started.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
it was actually December 23rd three years ago,
so we're close to a three-yearmilestone.
Wow.
And in that time twoaward-winning short films out in
the white house.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, we've really packed it in in a short space of
time.
Well, I think those two yearsago I'd been hunting around for
uh, ironically a cornish writerfor uh find one of them george
and the dragon couldn't getfurther away from that, but um.
So when I first contacted you Ithought you were cornish.
Yeah and um.
You know about my, mygrandfather.
(01:35):
We can talk more about thatlater.
You know, um, yeah, how timeflies.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
If anyone doesn't know richard and his work, it's
been a pretty spectacular lifelived so far emmy nominated,
animating credits on massivedisney films, big animating
credits on what is now regardingcult classic or maybe just an
absolute childhood classic inthe iron giant and now an
award-winning and award-winninglive action director with
(02:02):
unscripted speeches made in cansand working with Tom Conti.
Yeah, you've had something of arollercoaster.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It's been a real journey from a Devon boy born
out in the countryside whodreamt of going to Disney.
My mum bought me a book when Iwas 10 years old called the
Disney Film by Leonard Moulton,and it was all in black and
white and I used to flickthrough the book.
On the back pages there werepictures of Disney World that
was in Florida.
I said, mum, can we go there?
And she said well, you've gotto be rich to go there.
(02:33):
This was in the days beforecheap flights to Miami.
Little did I know, 20 odd yearslater, that I would be taking
my mum, my dad, six guests forfree to Disneyland in LA because
I was working there as a leadanimator.
It all makes it sound very easy.
It's not.
It's been a hell of a journeyand you have to go through.
Such ability is part of it, andI tell people the key thing is
(02:58):
persistence, because you canhave all the ability in the
world, but if you don't persist,you won't get those.
Breaks don't happen, and mostpeople give up before, just
before they're going to succeed.
So all those people that havebeen hugely successful, they
failed more times than anyone.
Uh, they just picked themselvesoff up again, I don't know how
I picked myself up because Idon't have a thick skin, but
(03:19):
somehow I do and it gives memore, uh, determination to on.
So yeah, so it's a long, longstory from being in Devon and
going to the States, but I diddo an art degree up in Liverpool
ironically in publicity ingraphic design, because
(03:41):
animation wasn't reallyconsidered a career back then.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
A little they knew.
Yeah, little did they know.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, it was for a short spell for me a brilliant
career because it was a veryclassical 2D period and I went
to London where I was working asa junior art director and the
company was taken over and weall got laid off and I was
looking around and thought, well, what do I really want to do?
Advertising wasn't really doingit for me and they were making
who Framed Roger Rabbit.
And I went up to Camden wherethey were making it.
(04:10):
They were making it therebecause of Richard Williams, the
great Canadian but based inBritain, commercials director,
and he was the animationdirector on it and I went up and
did what's called an in-betweentest and he was away that day
so I was at his desk.
The in-betweens are what you doat the bottom level.
The animators do their roughdrawings and because there's so
(04:32):
many hundreds of drawings, thein-betweeners do the drawings in
between.
And I'd been teaching myself ona coffee table, a glass coffee
table with a light underneath,and I had this book by Preston
Blair and did studies and wentalong and did the test and they
asked me to do evening classes,which I did for seven or eight
(04:53):
weeks and at the end of that,after testing hundreds of people
, they picked a handful of us asin-betweens, so that was an
incredible break.
Yeah, what an amazing,groundbreaking film A
groundbreaking film and then sixmonths later we were laid off.
I think it was the exchangerate.
They were going to keep goingbut they closed the studio and
(05:14):
there was no way they would takeme to the States as an
in-betweener.
You know, they weren't fullytrained animators already and
immigration has to prove thatthey can't hire an American to
do that job.
So it was another five years.
I went to Manchester, cosgroveHall, handocula, classic, yeah,
I guess.
So I didn't like doing it, oh,no.
(05:35):
Then I went to Ireland to workat Donbass Studios and became a
lead animator.
So after five years of hardgraft, yeah, I applied to disney
.
They passed, so I thought thatwas it.
Now, a year later, I saw an adin the dublin uh times, or
whatever it's called, and theywere looking for animators and I
(05:56):
applied again, but to the parisstudio, thinking well, uh,
might be a better chance there.
And then I got a call the weekafter saying we want to hire you
.
I said great, when and where.
I said in LA next week, wow.
And then within two years I wasa lead animator.
I've worked on Pocahontas, yeah, and John Smith, and then, as a
(06:17):
lead animator on Hercules ofthe Earth Parents.
I'm Fittrion Alcm and acharacter called Demetrius, so
that was one hell of anexperience.
And I ended up being in LA notall the time at Disney, but I've
been there for seven years, so,yeah, quite a journey, dreams
coming true for sure, the wholebig picture you've got, like
(06:42):
this incredible journey.
Are there any particular momentswhere suddenly be aware of
where you are, what you're doing, as like how, this is like the
most incredible place to beright now and yeah, I mean, you
have to pinch yourself and alsorealize, um, it's in that moment
and you've got to try and keepgoing on that journey, like I
guess when I was over in canpicking up an award.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, of course, noise in your eye on stage
Grabbing the microphone off thehost.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, yeah, nobody had done a speech before then,
and AD by the way I should saythat was Noise in your Eye did
the music, such as AdrianChivers and Daniel Panay, and
they have an ensemble ofmusicians including Nick Mason
on drums, which is in our filmand then, with AD, grabbed the
mic.
No one was doing speeches untilthen and he grabbed the mic and
(07:30):
then suddenly shoved it in myface.
So there was nothing prepared.
So I came up with something,but I did have to pinch myself
when I said it's great to behere in Cannes picking up this
award.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, I mean it did feel.
I've seen the speech, obviouslyand like it feels like it's
been prepared and I know youjust ad-libbed it and it was
totally off the cuff.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
So I'm there on the stage trying to thank everyone I
can and I have no memory fornames, but sometimes I can even
forget my own name if you ask meon stage.
But what I realised when I wasover in Cannes is that this
entire process it's teamwork andgetting great people together,
(08:12):
and one of the best thingsthat's happened to me in the
business was to connect with youthose few years ago and to find
a writer that can take my verybasic ideas and turn them into a
coherent story of worth and um.
So both our films, um censureand confines would not exist
(08:33):
without your incrediblecraftsmanship in your writing I
just can't thank you enough forwhat you've done well.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
That's absolutely echoed straight back at you the
chance, chance sort of encounterwe had via Twitter when it was
still called Twitter.
What that's led to in terms ofthe awards, I can see just over
your shoulder there and outthere.
The feedback we've received hasbeen incredible.
The fact that we can both haveTom Conti down as a collaborator
(09:03):
as well.
But, like you said, the biggestthing is, like with indie film
and with what we did, there wasno financial.
It wasn't driven by money, itwasn't driven by any financial
reward.
It was just all about a groupof like-minded people coming
together with this like desireto make a film, because the
traditional route of goingthrough production companies and
(09:25):
everything else is just such aheadache.
We just had this it's a massiveheadache.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
They call it development hell.
Um, and so many projects um getcancelled, will never get made
and sit on a shelf, and Iremember um alan parker, the
great filmmaker, saying hecouldn't believe how many
amazing films we just sat therelying on a shelf, which which
makes you wonder when you seesome of the films that are made
how the hell does that happen?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Which we'll talk about later.
Yeah, it's been phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Well, the big thing about the films that we've made
is that for years, as you said,I've worked on a lot of big, big
movies, which is great, but Ididn't produce and direct and I
had a small role.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So Hercules was amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I mean, it's fantastic to have that
experience to be there and theexperience that I've got.
Um, they let me direct some ofthe live action auditions.
People come in because we usedlive action reference um, for my
characters, um, so thedirectors were there for a
couple of shoots and then theytake off and say, okay, you take
over and uh, you know, suddenlythe best way is just to be
thrown in the deep end.
(10:26):
Warner Brothers In Between theIron Giant another great film
and Osmosis Jones, which I thinkis a terrific film.
We had six months they kept ahandful of us on full pay
without production work, andthey sent us to classes every
day.
So that was my university infilm.
So we had story classes withChris Vogler who wrote the
(10:46):
Hero's Journey.
He would come in week afterweek.
We'd have free classesIncredible.
We'd have acting classes, allsorts, and all of that stuff has
prepared me for censure andconfines and our future films,
our own feature projects thatwe're trying to get made I've
had.
I've had other ones kickingaround for years one with gary
(11:07):
kurtz, few star wars, darkcrystal sadly he's passed away,
so, um, I'm still trying to getthat one made called the
chimeria in a terrific tv series.
It's with a big Hollywoodproducer right now.
We'll see where that goes.
But I got frustrated.
One project fall through, uh,with a very big name.
That fell through.
And then that's when I said toJohn Fry.
I said, look, let's just gomake a film.
(11:28):
He's got all that.
He's a brilliant DOP.
Johnny Fry, phenomenal,fantastic cinematographer.
Mainly does corporate work.
But I said let's just go.
We're going to do anotherproject together and that
project had fallen through thefinance.
So I said let's just do it.
Let's just do it.
So I came up with a basic ideawhich you developed and made
(11:49):
work with this character, withall these voices off screen,
originally during COVID, as away to make a film.
Yeah, because we couldn't haveclose proximity and all that
stuff.
But when we came out oflockdown I said to you I said,
look, I think this is a coolidea, let's just make it.
So you took it, created thisincredible uh structure and
world that we had and we kepteverything local, all in one
(12:10):
spot, so we didn't have loads ofcompany moves all in the
village, all in one building.
Um, and somebody said the otherday you're building the
ebenezer chapel.
It's almost like a character initself.
You know, yeah, that's right umuh in the so.
When we went and did a recce andlooked at the place AD Chimbers
happens to own that building,the composer, yep and we had a
(12:33):
look and I remember going intothe bathroom and thinking, oh
boy, I've got an idea here,because it's so cool, it's like
a Stanley Kubrick, it's thislong room.
And I said to you, let's have ain the bathtub, his stepsister
breaking him outside and just onhim with a slow truck in, and
that's it, a few other cuts.
And John said to me, oh, shouldwe have him turn around?
(12:54):
I said no, no, no, just keep iton him, just keep him, you know
.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
So that worked out very well.
What's great in the trailer aswell?
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
And the whole.
If we set that in a normalbuilding, I wouldn't give away
the ending, but as we have thefinal scene, it's from the
balcony where we've got a largearea in which we can tell the
conclusion of the film, whichwouldn't work in a small lounge.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
No, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So I knew that would work.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
It was almost.
Everything just came together.
There were no weak links, itwas all just everything clicked.
One of the maddest things forme was I always remember I gave
you, I sent the final draft ofthe script over and within it
was probably less than a month,within like 24, 28 days, we were
getting our first award and itwas like what the hell is going
(13:42):
on?
I remember being sad.
I was having a bit of food withmy wife in town and then I
think you pinged me the messagesaying oh, we won best shot film
in Cannes.
That was Cannes as well, whichwas like yeah, but it happened
so fast.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
But I think one of the motivations.
When you were working on thescript, I talked to Tom Conti
and he said I'd be happy to dosomething for you here and I
think that motivated us all.
Bloody hell, we've got TomConti, let's just get him done
in the can and I said, john,let's go.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Let's go Grab your cameras.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, before he goes.
Oh, I'm busy again.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Exactly before he changes his mind, and I'm
forever grateful for Tom Contijust an incredible actor to have
done that.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
What credit to have on the first film.
Amazing, and just the fact that, like in terms of pinch
yourself, moments to know thatTom Connolly was reading these
lines for myself was just like.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I mean, he didn't have to do it and he was just
off after that, or was it before, around that time doing
Oppenheimer yeah yeah, and he'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Without censure he wouldn't have got Oppenheimer.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I shall say that to him.
I think he'll laugh.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
That's great.
Back on to other films I'mtaking you right back to, I
guess, the acorn.
Before you became engrossed inthis journey.
Are there any moments where yourealised this is something
special, where you fell in lovewith film?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, I think for a lot of people Star Wars was just
mind-blowing, and back in thosedays there hadn't been a lot of
science fiction films.
I don't know if it was whenWesterns were big, I forget but
Star Wars came along and bleweverything out of the water.
In fact, it's like a Westernspace in many ways and see that
when you think how they didthose effects with multiple
(15:26):
passes, um, and the way they hadto do it wasn't digital, uh, it
was incredibly complex.
And you know, you have thosescenes, all the spaceships, the
models in a in in a warehouse,in van eyes, as they move around
, and I think it's in one ofthem.
They even have like a somebodyput in like a little shoe, a
training shoe, in in amongst thespaceships and the asteroids,
(15:47):
but um, there's probably lots ofstuff like that.
But, um, how they did thosefilms back then, um, and in many
ways I kind of enjoy theeffects we'll talk about this
later when we do the desertisland section um, the way they
did those effects then I enjoyedmore because they had to make
certain choices, but I saidwe'll go into that well, I'll
(16:07):
tell you what it's.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Good news, bad news You're crawling from the
wreckage of the plane on thedeserted desert island, but
luckily you've got what everysurvivor needs, and that's three
great films to see you throughthe next X amount of years.
Might not even be great films,but for you they've been
important, they've mattered andthey've meant something during
(16:29):
the course of your life.
You also get to choose one filmthat has perpetually let you
down, that we burn for heat onthe island, and you will get to
choose a movie companion to joinyou on the island.
But before we kick into yourchoices of three, are there any
films that were close to makingthe list but just fell short?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely well, it's really
hard to pick out yes, reallyespecially when you're so
invested in film, as you said?
Yeah, I can't.
I don't know how it doesn'tmake the list of three.
How do you do that?
But I remember spartacus as ayoungster now, although directed
by stanley kubrick, I think itwas his last hollywood big
hollywood film and it put himoff for life because he had
(17:09):
executives telling him why areyou on the wide for so long?
He wanted to show thespectacular side.
He knows what he's doing.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
But even you know he had all this exact interference.
And I just remember thespectacle and the journey and I
remember as a kid I was thatyoung I had Lego and I would
make a Colosseum out of Lego andthis was before we had all the
colour, all the rest of it.
I think it was probably one ortwo colours back then, yeah,
(17:37):
yeah, and I painted the damnthing.
I ruined all the Lego because Ipainted it and I had these
characters and I put littlemodel gladiators.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
You were all right as long as you wanted to build a
coliseum.
Every time I wanted to build acoliseum, that's one.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
There's.
The golden voyage of Sinbadmade a massive impact as a
youngster and teenager, onebecause of the centaur in there
was just an incredible thing,stop motion by Ray Harryhausen,
an incredible creature.
And I went off again and I gota framework in in um, what, why?
(18:12):
I made the framework, then haddust, clay and made the model
and painted it and all andeverything else.
Oh, wow.
And one of the other thingsthat stuck out that was probably
more of my teams was, uh,carolyn monroe is in it.
So that's.
I even have a picture of hersign.
Oh, I believe.
Yeah, I've seen the picture.
Yeah, yeah, right behind on theon the wall here.
I met her at a convention.
(18:32):
I remember my exact age, causeI actually went on my first date
, which didn't go well because Iwas so into the film, so you
know.
But, but I remember I was 14and I went to see the Golden
Voyage of Simba at the cinema.
What a film.
And there's hundreds more.
Oh, my goodness, it's a definiteadventure, adventure theme
(18:54):
running through I'm just tryingto make sure that I've kept my
three when we get to go back.
Crash is an incredible filmbecause films are about moments.
Yeah moments, yeah, yeah, ifyou can remember, like you know,
like a sixth sense, um, at theend of the film, when bruce
willis drops the ring and yourealize he's a ghost all the
time.
Yeah, wow, I, you know, youdon't necessarily remember the
(19:15):
whole story, but you rememberthat moment and the emotional
impact yes, yeah the film'sabout a moment.
Iron giant has that moment, um,but it's set up at the end when,
when the uh giant sacrificeshimself to the bomb to help save
the people.
Um, early on in the story,bradbury had put a scene in
where he's sitting down with theboy and bonding with him and
(19:36):
they're going through the comics, the superhero comics, and they
go through and say that'srobotron, that's a bad guy, and
the robots, like a child suckingup, is this superman?
He's a good guy.
So when he's flying through theair at the end and he knows
he's going to sacrifice himself,and he says superman in that
voice yeah, literally you're intears it's brilliant, they're
(19:59):
your cultural ones, but whatwould you have as the first film
that made the cut?
yeah, yeah.
The first one is because ofmemories and my childhood and
the way things were back then.
It's just nostalgic and everyChristmas it wasn't Santa.
I was most excited about it wasseeing Jason and the Argonauts.
Oh, fantastic choice.
(20:21):
It would play every Christmas.
We had no DVD, no videos, norecordings, so the only way you
could see it is in the theatreor on TV.
So we'd play like clockwork,like the Queen's Speech every
year.
So that was one of the things Ilooked forward to.
Sitting down every time, Inever ceased to be like in awe
(20:44):
of the skeleton fight sequence.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, it's amazing how that stood the test of time
and it still looks breathtakingto this day.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
That was all done by one man, ray Harryhausen.
He made the models, he made thesets, he did the filming.
It took six months for him todo.
Now that wouldn't happen.
You'd have a whole team ofprobably 100 VFX artists, or
hundreds, scattered around theworld, various, you know,
sitting at computers.
In fact I've, I've been there,I've worked a bit on harry
(21:16):
potter, uh, prison of azkabanand some animation.
Oh my god, don't tell mychildren because, yeah, everyone
says how amazing that is it,but I'm far more excited about
Sanctuary Confines because it'sour film.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
And with Harry Potter .
I was one of hundreds ofartists at Framestore in London
sitting at loads of computersand never met the director,
brilliant director, alfonsoCuaron.
But you become more of atechnician and you get notes
from notes and it really wasn'tfor me and that's interesting
Once I talk about that.
(21:52):
I come from classical 2Danimation where the 2D animators
were respected and in the olddays at Disney they carried on
until the 80s until they droppedthe nine old men.
They did their best animationin their old age with CGI You're
lucky to see a person with greyhair on a computer.
It's just a different culture.
(22:13):
So I was sitting there at thesecomputers thinking this isn't
for me.
I'm going to make my own films.
It's good to have got theexperience and if I ever make
films with CGI in it, I knowexactly how to do it and how
it's done.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
But away from CGI.
Jason, Jason the Argonauts whata great choice and it's
something that still, I think,captures any audience.
Now, Kids will sit down infront of that film and it'll
still capture the imagination.
There's still even Spellbound.
It's such a good film.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
The harpies come in and he's got all the fruit
that's been left to him.
They come in and steal thefruit.
It's so dark and sinister butbeautiful.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
There's too many great moments in that film to
nail it down to.
But the skeleton scene doesalways stand out actually.
Having said that, the skeletonscene is pretty spectacular.
That's a wonderful choice, sowe're off to a flying start.
Richard, Can you keep it upwith the second film?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I can.
Jungle Book Ah, again,nostalgic reasons.
When I was a kid I saw it fivetimes.
I must have dragged my mum toit five times at the local
cinema as a youngster to see it.
It probably started myobsession with disney films, you
know.
And then you know, years later,when I was at disney uh, just
(23:32):
down the road from where I was,where I had an office there,
just down the road of flowerstreet, is what they have.
They call the arl, the animationresearch library.
We called the morgue becauseit's where all the old scenes
went.
Um, a lot of them had gone, butthey kept a lot of the old
animated scenes, the originaldrawings, in boxes down there
and you could, as an animator,you could request to go down and
(23:57):
study these and get photocopies.
So I would go down and studythem scenes from Jungle Book
that I watched as a kid and holdthe actual drawings that were
made.
That's incredible.
Now, years before I workedthere, animators could walk in
and say can I borrow that scene?
They'd borrow it.
It would never come back.
Not that I'm accusing animatorsor whoever it was.
(24:18):
So they soon cottoned on to that.
So then you had to go down.
They would come out.
You had to wear white gloves, Ithink, to handle it, and
somebody would watch it whilstyou were doing it and then you
had to hand it back.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, it's a history.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
So Jungle Book, the other scenes in there, there's
some spectacular work by one ofthe best animators ever, Milt
Karl of Shere Khan Justphenomenal acting the character
you had people doing film afterfilm that stayed together.
They weren't laid off afterevery film, and that's what you
get.
That's when film that stayedtogether.
They weren't laid off afterevery film, and that's what you
get.
That's when you keep teamstogether.
Yeah, it's a beautiful film.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
(24:51):
And also, you know, actuallythis isn't supposed to be on
this, but 101 Domations justincredible, but I could go on.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I could go on, no, no .
But there's almost like theheart back to like that classic
Disney era and I'm sure for manypeople both Jungle Book and
Jason and the Argonauts will besort of comfort blanket films as
well.
One of them where as soon asthe music kicks in, as soon as
the opening credits, they'retransported away to magical
times.
(25:20):
Yeah, two for two, no pressure,no pressure on the third.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
So Gladiator, oh wow.
I'm a big Ridley Scott fan.
What's interesting?
He came from an art background.
I think he art directed on ZedCars.
He was at the BBC, possiblyDoctor who, yeah.
So he's a very visual director.
So I relate to him, his work, alot because it's so visual and
you know I'm very visual andsometimes people think it's to
(25:48):
his detriment but I don't know.
But I always enjoy his films.
I've yet to see Napoleon, whichI'm dying to see and I've heard
so I'm looking forward toseeing it.
I hope I love it.
But Gladiator for me, isspectacular, not just in the
spectacle but of the incredibleactor Joaquin Phoenix, but of
the incredible actor JoaquinPhoenix yeah, what a guy.
(26:08):
And the theme behind it that heis neglected and not loved by
his father, marcus Aurelius.
Russell Crowe's character isobviously favoured by him.
You know the gladiator andJoaquin's desire for love, which
he can't get.
So whenever you get a villainwho you empathize with, it's
(26:30):
very powerful.
So you're kind of like, oh okay, I get that, I can get you.
You know why.
So I remember seeing a writerdo a lecture on it and how he
inserted this idea that when hekills his own father, he picks
him up and hugs him, and he hugshim to death.
Yeah, he squeezes him so tight,he suffocates him, and it's
(26:54):
very symbolic and very oh my.
Again, it's another one ofthose moments, incredibly
powerful.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Oh, yeah, yeah, so for me.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
That's on my list when I'm on the desert island.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, it's a fantastic film and Joaquin
Phoenix is just one of thoseactors who never seems to miss a
beat.
Everything he does, he seems tobe fantastic.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I would love to get him in a film, although I think
I might find him quite scary.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, he's kind of intense.
He's very intense.
I always wondered I probablyshouldn't admit this, but one
fact I always remember watchingParenthood and seeing oh, leif
Phoenix is in it, brother ofRiver Phoenix, leif.
And then I always thought Iwonder what ever happened to
Leif Phoenix without realisingthat basically he changed his
(27:40):
name to Joaquin and I'd seen hisentire career play out.
I just thought it was three ofthem.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, I thought it was River and Leaf and Wacking,
but yeah, and in the Joker he'sjust unbelievable.
Everything is so good aboutthat film, but I'm adding a film
there I can't add, but justtalking about Wacking Phoenix,
you know.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
So I mean there's probably a number of Wacking
Phoenix films that could maketheir own Desire.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah, easily.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
He's just, he's at that level.
What's?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
interesting is I was reading an interview with Ridley
Scott the other day and he wassaying how insecure Joaquin
Phoenix is and on Napoleon therewas a moment where he's like I
don't know if I can do this.
And they had to sit down and gothrough it, and he convinced
him he was right for the part.
He had to sit down and gothrough it, and he convinced him
he was right for the part.
And Ridley said well, you knowwhat I'm used to this.
(28:31):
It happened on Gladiator too, sohe bears his soul in his films,
which is why that vulnerabilityis probably so amazing now On
camera.
You know the same with PhilipSeymour Hoffman.
Yeah, there's that samevulnerability that makes them
intriguing yet intimidating.
(28:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
At the same time, it makes them more endearing as a
person, because you've got thesame imposter syndrome and
doubts that plague everyone.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
It's not your traditional moustache-twirling
villain, no, no.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's far more complex than that Fantastic.
So three pretty much perfectchoices.
Yeah, really classic.
You've got a bit of everythinggoing on there, but definitely
undeniable classics.
Yeah Well, unfortunately youneed to stay warm on the island
and somehow you've managed tograb every single copy of this
one film that you have alwaysbeen disappointed or let down by
(29:32):
.
It doesn't have to benecessarily a terrible film, but
maybe it is, but it'sdisappointed you.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, well, the beauty of film is that we all
have different tastes.
Yeah, absolutely, we all lovethe same film.
It would.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Film is that we all have different tastes yeah,
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
We all love the same film.
Boring if we all hated the samefilm, um.
So there are some films that Ilove that other people like oh,
I didn't like it, and vice versa.
So the one that I, it had allthis hype and it won all these
oscars, um.
And I thought, well, I'll haveto, I must see it.
It was everything everywhere atonce, okay.
(30:06):
So I watched it and after 15minutes I thought what the hell
is this?
And I watched some films likethat before by directors and
then got into it.
Is it the Legend of BusterSuggs?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Oh yeah, the Coen Brothers, yeah, yeah Coen
Brothers film.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I remember watching that, thinking, wow, this is
bizarre.
But by the end I really enjoyedit, it hooked me in, it got me
in.
So there are films like that.
You think what's this about?
Yeah, so I kept giving it achance.
I watched it half an hour,watched it an hour and I'm like,
oh my God, for me the conceptof multiverses everywhere and
(30:47):
that they had to do these randomacts to get them through a
wormhole to the next universe,to create that new reality.
I get all that and I watch allthese YouTube videos with Brian
Cox.
I love them.
Black holes and space and allthat stuff.
So I'm open to all that.
But as soon as they hadcharacters in another universe
with frank frida fingers, itlost me yeah, yeah if it was a
(31:08):
monty python sketch, great, thiswell.
Was it a comedy?
No, I don't.
Is it like?
I guess?
I don't know what it is, but Ijust didn't get into the
characters, I didn't get intothe world, I didn't't into the
direction.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
And I guess that's a point that took you out of the
moment you realised you werewatching something again and you
weren't.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Yeah, I wasn't.
You know, sometimes you get acharacter.
I think it's like in 12 Monkeyswith Brad Pitt that he was so
brilliant that you get engrossedin the character as much as the
film carries you through.
But there was nothing to it forme yet in one of these awards.
Well, I've got a great friendwho's a really good friend,
absolutely loves it.
(31:51):
Will we fall out about it?
Of course not.
Um, it's just a differentopinion we all have a different.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
That's the beauty of it.
Yeah, it's totally related todifferent things for different
reasons, you know, yeah, butthat's so.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
The only problem with trying to destroy that film is
it probably exists in anotheruniverse, somewhere else many,
many yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
There'll be a universe where that's your
favorite film.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yeah, be a different richard, that's right, that's
right.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Okay, so potentially controversial choice.
You also get to choose onecharacter from any film who will
be your companion on the island, your company, well, quite
actually, because if you're on adesert island you want cheering
up and good company.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I fancy a drinking buddy the character from Arthur.
I think he'd be terrificcompany, a lot of humour to pick
you up when you're down, andI'm sure we could enjoy the
coconut juice and he couldferment it into something.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
And a tremendous yeah , if only we could get Dudley
Moore if he was still around tobe in one of our films.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Ah, a magical, magical actor sorely missed yeah
very much.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, a solid selection all round, richard.
Thank you Before we head offinto the sunset, what's next on
the agenda?
I know, obviously we're workingon the next shot, which will be
we do.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
As you know, we've got the feature project brewing
George and the Dragon.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I mean, yeah, talk George and the Dragon for a
while, because the story behindthat alone is fascinating.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
When I was a youngster, my grandfather he
wasn't one to show off.
He was a working man in thequarry, he was a miner.
It was a hard life.
They were pretty poor.
Even when we bought them afridge in later years, they put
the butter on top.
There was nothing in the fridge.
They didn't know what to dowith it.
So it was a hard life, but aninteresting life, because he
also was a champion Cornishwrestler.
(33:44):
It's Cornish style.
Wrestling is a sort of amartial art, um combat, um sport
.
And hundreds of years ago,thousands before technology and
tv and radio, thousands ofpeople would turn up to these
events, thousands, um, and theywere spectacular events.
Now, when my grandfather wasalive, it wasn't that big but
there was still quite a number,and he went up a number of times
(34:08):
up to the London Palladium todo displays and he had a battle
with Yukio Tani, who was aJapanese martial arts expert and
, as you know, in a lot of filmsit's the rocky story they win.
In ours it's not exactly thesame, but we have a twist and we
have a rematch.
So I'm trying not to give toomuch away, but also we need to
(34:31):
add the drama which you're anexpert at because it's based on
fact, but we need to dramatizeit, yeah, yeah, the backstory,
which is what you uh in theprocess of doing brilliantly but
yeah, it's a cracking story andall the elements and you killed
tanny alone, the fact that Ican't remember his unbeaten
record as a martial artist, butit stretches into decades
(34:56):
incredible and and to go throughall the old footage at the bfi
and to discover my grandfather.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Actually, we never knew about that, it was just
magical.
Oh yeah, we included it, whichyou helped edit together.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, but like you, say, we found all this old
footage and all these oldstories, and then the people who
are still involved now becauseit's still going.
Carnage Wrestling is still athing.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
It's still going.
It's a handful of familiesstill doing it and it's a real
thing as well.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
I mean, the actual fights are serious, it's a
serious thing.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
yeah, and I've got another anecdote to tell.
When I was 18, I was out in thegarden messing around with my
grandad and he said to me he wasa short, stocky man, short.
But he said come here, bud,come here.
That's my best Cornish accent.
I'm afraid that was better thanmine.
And he said grab my shirt.
(35:55):
He said throw me.
I was 18.
He was probably late 70s and Itried, and I tried.
He was like late 70s and Itried, and I tried.
He was like a tree planted.
And then boom, I was on my backand my mum shagged out the
window.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
be careful with your granddad.
Oh no, that was a man who'dseen some action in his day and
had some scraps.
That's for sure.
Incredible man.
It's a great story.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I mean, the challenge is which is why I suggested to
you that we start with thesmaller film Censure and
Confines, which we could just goand make.
Raising money is always achallenge.
The executives always wantA-list actors and this and that.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
And then we also hit the COVID backlog, like the
COVID, the shutdown.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
COVID backlog.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That's right.
Yeah, left this big backlog.
But in a way it's almost likeI'm glad it did now because of
what we did after that, likegetting something out there.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It gave us a chance to reset and we concentrated on
what we could make.
And now what we can do off thesuccess of these shorts is use
that as a way to leverage to getGeorge and the Dragon and other
films off the ground.
Of course, we have anothershort in development and
(37:14):
hopefully we can get that onemade next year.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
Onwards to swimming pools,mansions and glory.
I don't know, maybe a StarbucksAdd to that swimming pools in a
hot climate.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I don't want one in my backyard.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Oh yeah.
Good point.
Yeah, oh, fantastic.
Well, I've just got to saythank you, richard.
It's been an absolute pleasurechatting to you.
Fantastic choices, as Iexpected for someone so deeply
embroiled in and entangled inthe whole film industry.
You've got an incredible storyof your own, and hopefully we're
(37:54):
only still partway through,because there's a lot of movie
mileage to go yet.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
There's a good few years in us yet mate.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Oh yes, right mate, I will take care and yes, we will
speak again soon.
Take care, all the best.
Cheers, richard.
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