March 31, 2024 • 54 mins
Ever wondered if the glittering world of architectural awards is more than just a trophy on the shelf? Join us as we unpack the tangible benefits of prestigious accolades like the NZIA awards for architects and their projects. From the thrill of the awards night to the strategic marketing advantages of award submissions, we delve into the real-world implications of being recognised by peers.
As past award-winners, and newly shortlisted ones, we dissect the financial commitment and long-term gains of entering the competitive architectural arena. As we reminisce over the shortlisted projects and the vibrant architectural scene in New Zealand, we venture beyond the accolade itself, discussing the potential for awards to elevate public appreciation of architecture. We even toss around the idea of a People's Choice Award, musing over how social media could democratise the recognition process. Biggest Cantilever anyone?
Tune in for a candid blend of industry insights, hearty laughs, and a passionate exchange of ideas on the awards scene in architecture and design.
Episode Chapters:
0:13
Discussing NZIA Awards and Entries
7:29
Value of Awards in Architecture
17:44
Architectural Awards and Public Engagement
26:16
Discussion on Architecture Awards
33:10
Recognition and Validation in Architecture
42:54
Discussion on Alternative Awards
As past award-winners, and newly shortlisted ones, we dissect the financial commitment and long-term gains of entering the competitive architectural arena. As we reminisce over the shortlisted projects and the vibrant architectural scene in New Zealand, we venture beyond the accolade itself, discussing the potential for awards to elevate public appreciation of architecture. We even toss around the idea of a People's Choice Award, musing over how social media could democratise the recognition process. Biggest Cantilever anyone?
Tune in for a candid blend of industry insights, hearty laughs, and a passionate exchange of ideas on the awards scene in architecture and design.
Episode Chapters:
0:13
Discussing NZIA Awards and Entries
7:29
Value of Awards in Architecture
17:44
Architectural Awards and Public Engagement
26:16
Discussion on Architecture Awards
33:10
Recognition and Validation in Architecture
42:54
Discussion on Alternative Awards
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Brown (00:13):
Welcome back to the design principle podcast.
I am sam brown from a redarchitects and I'm once again
here with Ben Sutherland frombear architecture and Gerard
Dombroski from GerardDombroski's studio.
Welcome back, boys.
How's it going?
Ben Sutherland (00:28):
Good, good, happy Easter.
Sam Brown (00:31):
Oh yeah, thank you.
We are recording on EasterFriday today.
So in solidarity for our goodLord, we are all having a pint.
Ben Sutherland (00:39):
Or a wine enjoying life.
Sam Brown (00:42):
Yeah, exactly, maybe not, Gerard.
So we thought, given the recentuh announcement of the nzia,
which is the new zealandinstitute of architects,
shortlists for architectureawards in 2024, it'd be a good
chance to have a chat about theawards and just the position or
place of awards in creativefields in general.
(01:06):
But before we get into that, Ijust want to have a little bit
of a gripe, mainly with acertain type of plant.
So if there's any landscapedesigners, architects,
homeowners, gardeners, whoeverout there that likes to get
their green thumb green, this iswhat I have to say to you never
(01:26):
, ever, plant agapanthus.
Oh yeah, they're the worst.
Oh, my god, I've literally justspent half a day pulling out
agapanthus and I already knowthat when I wake up tomorrow
morning they'll be back andthey'll continue to multiply
like bamboo shoots throughoutour garden forever and a day.
(01:49):
My question is do they have anybenefit?
I don't think they look good,the flowers dry out and go
crusty and gross.
They're itchy.
The sap from them is reallyitchy and they're a bloody pain
in the ass.
Gerard Dombroski (02:09):
Yeah, they're sticky.
Ben Sutherland (02:11):
Another one that's a pain in the ass is
gorse, and people tried to getrid of that for a long time, but
it actually sequesters a highamount of carbon, so it's very
good for the environment.
Sam Brown (02:23):
Oh well, that's a tick in Gorse's category.
So unless somebody else cancome to me with a positive for
Agapantha, I'm straight up herevetoing it forever and a day.
Gerard Dombroski (02:33):
Gorse is actually an awesome nurse canopy
for regenerating forestsbecause it dies very quickly
once it loses sunlight.
So as soon as the plants comeup through it.
Ben Sutherland (02:43):
It dies off real quick and obviously a bacteria
for families as well.
Gerard Dombroski (02:47):
so we hear at dpp a pro gorse if you're up, if
you're after a forest, more forit.
Ben Sutherland (02:57):
Yeah my dad bought this hill in napier once
and it was all it was was agigantic gorse bush.
The whole hill was just coveredin gorse and he ended up
lasting maybe like only for liketwo months.
He couldn't handle it anymorebecause he was just chopping
gorse all day.
And I remember he sold it and Iremember seeing like two weeks
(03:17):
later the whole thing was justup on flames.
The new owner must have justgone along and tortured the
whole.
Sam Brown (03:24):
Thing.
Gerard Dombroski (03:29):
It's the way to deal with it.
Sam Brown (03:30):
Eh, too much of a moist plant can't burn it also
in the center city it's a littlebit, uh, questionable,
particularly in wellington,where it's blowing a gale 99.9
percent of the time, probablyshouldn't burn your gorse in the
city center.
No no, anyway, sorry for thatwee segue, I just had to get
that out there because it's justdriving me up the wall.
(03:51):
But back to awards.
So, as I said, the nzia haveannounced their awards, of the
shortlists for their awards, andI know that the judges have
been around to, if not all, avery vast majority of them may I
just jump in there?
Ben Sutherland (04:04):
how do you know that?
Sam Brown (04:06):
oh well, we're fortunate enough to have been
shortlisted for a project in thewellington awards
congratulations, thank you.
Ben Sutherland (04:13):
Thank you very much.
Yeah, well done.
How does it?
Sam Brown (04:15):
feel, uh, it's quite humbling I think yeah, stoked
yep, it's nice.
I mean, you sort of this is agood way of kind of getting into
the conversation, I guess.
I mean you put yourself outthere a little bit, were you a
little?
Bit nervous or in the judgesround.
Ben Sutherland (04:33):
Yeah, I guess like especially architecture is
like your biggest judges areother architects.
You know, you don't really carewhat anyone else thinks about
your designs, but otherarchitects.
Well, you want the clients tobe happy.
Sam Brown (04:47):
There's that, there's a bit of that.
It's uh, it's interesting.
A like you do.
You kind of expose yourself alittle bit well, you put
yourself out there a little bit,you're open to critique and so
you're sort of hoping for thebest.
But I think deep down you knowwhen you have a project that is
(05:08):
worthy of recognition and youknow it may not necessarily get
that through the award you knowthe nzia awards but there's
other award awards or avenuesthat you can target down, or
publication, things like that.
But yeah, I mean, it was prettycool and it was nice.
We, the judges, come around,you do a little tour around your
projects with them, and it wasreally nice to to do that last
(05:31):
weekend with the clients andwith the judges as well and sort
of see how it's about fivemonths on from when we completed
the project and you kind of seehow stoked the clients still
are, how much it's affectedtheir lives in a positive and
they were, yeah, exactly, andthey were singing up praises
singing up praises to the judges, which was cool.
(05:52):
So yeah, no, pretty, pretty,chuffed, fingers crossed.
May 23rd is when, well,wellingtons are announced.
I don't know about the othercenters, but yeah, looking
forward to a big night.
But yeah, it's interesting.
You know, this year there'sbeen, I think, a record number
of entries.
By my account, and I'm justquickly looking on the website
here, 26 projects uh have beenshortlisted for gisborne, hawks
(06:16):
bay, 17 projects nelsonmarlborough, 13 projects.
Western, which is the westcoast, uh 36 projects for
wellington, 29 projects.
Southern, which is sort of likecentral otago, uh, southland
and dunedin, 60 projects forauckland, 34 canterbury, 31,
(06:36):
waikato bay, aplenty.
So yeah, quite a few, quite afew amazing pieces out there.
Ben Sutherland (06:46):
May I just ask what category were you in?
Sam Brown (06:50):
We have been shortlisted for small projects,
cool.
So we're up against inWellington.
We're up against First LightStudio for their St Hilda's
Church renovation and KellyArchitects for a wee renovation
that she's done.
I can't remember the name ofher project off the top of my
head, but interestingly we'rewe're very much newcomers, or,
(07:11):
as a ret architects, we're verymuch newcomers to this award
scene, and we're up against two,I'd say, well-established and
well-decorated architecturefirms.
Yeah, I'd say, and in firstlight, enter and win annually.
So fingers crossed, but yeah,we'll see what happens.
It's an exciting thing to bepart of.
Ben Sutherland (07:29):
Yeah, I don't want to float my own boat, but a
few years ago now I went to theNZIA Awards Our friend over
there, gerard Dabrowski.
One of his designs won an awardand he took me along as his
plus one.
Oh, that's cute we go.
Sam Brown (07:50):
So, gerard, I mean as a winner yourself, do you think
that the award process, uh, isworth it, and how do you, and
how do you think it has eithershaped or molded um or
influenced you personally and inyour practice?
Ben Sutherland (08:04):
and did your boss at the time win any more
more work from your awesomedesign?
Gerard Dombroski (08:11):
yeah I wonder if you actually get any work out
of it probably this year.
I just could not actuallyafford to enter so well this
year on the basis that Icouldn't afford it that is.
Sam Brown (08:24):
that is one of the talking points that I had
outlined for today was isentering awards a cost barrier
for small or growing firms?
It'd be interesting to talkabout the cost-benefit analysis,
because, you're right, gerard,it's expensive All awards are
expensive.
Gerard Dombroski (08:42):
If somebody's winning a bunch of awards,
they're paying a lot ofsubscription submitting fees.
Sam Brown (08:48):
Well, I guess you've got to.
Well, you have to be an NZIA,you know, an NZIA registered
firm.
Gerard Dombroski (08:54):
Yeah, well, that's my first issue.
I'm not a NZIA registered firm.
Oh, you're not there, you go.
Ben Sutherland (08:58):
Well, that's not .
That wouldn't be hard for youto resolve, though.
Sam Brown (09:06):
Yeah, you to resolve though.
Yeah, but what's?
Gerard Dombroski (09:07):
that like is it like 1200 bucks or something,
or yeah, it might even be morethe outline of cost for me just
to get one award when I can justcollate.
I'll just wait a year or twountil I have a few more
buildings and we'll just do itall at once that's a good idea.
Sam Brown (09:16):
Yeah, it is interesting and we sort of
played that game ourselves thisyear.
We're like is it worth it?
And I think we were fairlyconfident with the karaka tower,
which, which has beenshortlisted, and we also put in
the recent renovation or recentnew sorry, new fit out for mojo
and brandon street, and that waswe weren't so sure whether we'd
(09:36):
win that one, but we we sort ofdid it as a as a way of I
trying to invoke a bit ofconfidence in us from our client
.
We're like newly appointedarchitects for Mojo, the coffee
barons of Wellington.
And they're super stoked withtheir new space and we're pretty
(09:57):
happy with it too, and wethought, you know, put it in for
awards and let's see if it getsany traction.
Unfortunately it hasn't, butyou know that's fine.
Ben Sutherland (10:05):
It's still an awesome design, though.
Sam Brown (10:07):
Yeah, I think it's really really cool and you know
you can sort of put something inand hope yeah, it's a good
client to have A great client.
But you know, we sort of did itnot so much as a let's hope we
get an award, but more of a likelet's actually really try and
solidify this relationship andyou know, build a bit of
confidence in us and the brandand, yeah, hope you get it.
Gerard Dombroski (10:33):
The award's sort of a bonus in a way.
Sam Brown (10:38):
That first light in the church was pretty epic.
Gerard Dombroski (10:41):
It is cool.
Ben Sutherland (10:41):
Yeah, it's very cool, love that little faceted
laser cut business.
Other than the subscription,how much do you have to pay to
get in there?
Sam Brown (10:48):
So it depends on the size of your firm.
So if you're a one to I thinkit's a three-person firm it's
$395 or something like that,plus GST per entry, and then it
obviously goes up for largerfirms.
So it's about 500 bucks, let'ssay.
Gerard Dombroski (11:09):
Um it's like the entry thing.
Tricky thing with awards islike are they?
Well, they are making money offawards generally they're now
subscriptions and stuff.
People paying it like drums upa bit of a buzz yeah, and I
think.
Sam Brown (11:24):
Well, I just think for us, you know, we could not
have spent that money anywhereelse.
You know, in terms ofadvertising or what have you and
got the same level of exposureor recognition that we have so
far through this process?
You know what I mean.
So you know we've we've got acouple of publications now with
(11:45):
the tower and things like that,and this is off the back of the
awards.
I don't reckon we would havebeen able to spend 500 bucks
with an advertiser or whateverand got the same result.
So that's a positive, but it'sa risky positive.
You know it's not necessarily agiven.
Yeah, so it's an interesting one, I think you know you see firms
that are there every year.
You know we talked about firstlie and you know you definitely
(12:07):
see repeat offenders in a goodway.
They're obviously architecturefirms that like, do amazing work
all the time and want toshowcase that.
But I'd also say it's probablypart of their brand, or you know
their business strategy toenter awards and I'd say they
budget for it as well.
But you know, for us, assmaller and growing firms, it's
(12:28):
quite new.
Gerard Dombroski (12:29):
Yeah, I think the discussion is heavily tied
to marketing.
Ben Sutherland (12:33):
Yeah, yeah, the real winners are the judges.
They probably get paid and theyget to go and have a look
through all the awesomearchitecture, private tours of
all these places, and I'd loveto know how they how they pick,
pick the judges.
Sam Brown (12:50):
It was a really, you know my I guess my own
experience this year is with thewellington group, but I thought
it was a really great, reallydiverse group of judges.
It sort of came at theiranalysis of the project quite
differently, which I thought wasreally good so is it not the
same judges for the whole NewZealand?
Ben Sutherland (13:06):
Is it different region by region, as far as I
understand?
I don't.
Sam Brown (13:09):
I think it's regional .
Oh, okay, it didn't used to be.
I have a feeling it used to bethe same judging group for the
whole country.
Ben Sutherland (13:15):
Well, maybe this is more the NZIA, the second
awards, which are the locals?
Sam Brown (13:27):
No, these are the locals.
The um national.
Yeah, I imagine the nationalswill have the same judging group
, but I think post-covid andsort of cost of living tightness
and things like that, that, andalso you know the the carbon
emission required to fly judgesall around the country for
awards is probably a little bitfrowned upon.
So they've been a bit smarterabout that now and yeah it looks
like they're all uh differentjudges just so yeah, sam, do you
(13:52):
have a list of the awards as in, like the actual categories?
Ben Sutherland (13:56):
I'd be.
I'd be quite interested to know.
Sam Brown (13:57):
I know there's like commercial, residential,
commercial education, heritage,hospitality housing, housing
alterations and additions,housing, multi-unit interior
planning, urban design, publicsmall project nice, it's quite,
it's quite a big category what Ifound really interesting
(14:18):
looking through the shortlistthis year in terms of the
categories, as I say, for thefirst time I've I've really seen
a huge amount of shortlistedprojects in, like the heritage
categories and and also multi,multi-unit residential, and I'd
say that is a very much anexample of the changing times
(14:39):
you know I'd say that a lot ofheritage work being undertaken,
one because people are lookingat reuse from a sustainability
point of view, um, but alsothere's a lot of earthquake
strengthening work.
So that sort of heritage thinggoes hand in hand with that.
Are you talking?
Gerard Dombroski (14:52):
about like working on heritage buildings
versus like a heritage award forenduring architecture correct?
Sam Brown (14:59):
yes, yep, so the enduring architecture awards
separate, isn't it?
Because so you, you get aheritage.
So the Enduring ArchitectureAward's separate, isn't it?
Because you get a heritage.
So the shortlisted projects forheritage are working on
heritage buildings, versus theEnduring Architecture Award.
I don't think you enter yourproject.
I think you're selected, areyou not?
And that's for projects thatwere completed in the past, are
(15:20):
still around and still holdgreat architectural merit.
Gerard Dombroski (15:28):
Yeah, I think that's a perfect award.
Sam Brown (15:29):
award, that's the one you want to get.
Yeah, I mean, that shows yourlongevity, right.
You've been in the game andperforming to a high level for a
long time or you've just donesomething dope in the past.
Yeah cool, yeah cool, it's,it's, it's, yeah I.
The whole award thing is aninteresting conversation and you
know we've already talked aboutwhat it can do for your
(15:49):
business.
Gerard Dombroski (15:50):
But it'll be interesting to get your.
What can it do for yourbusiness?
Sam Brown (15:53):
Well, I was about to say I was just interested to get
your guys' take on that.
I mean, I've mentioned the factalready that we couldn't have
spent the money that we have onentering the awards and getting
that recognition so far on anysort of promotion.
You know, we we're havingpeople contact us for
publication.
A lot of people have said likecongratulations, they've seen it
on the nzia website, all thissort of stuff, so you're able to
(16:16):
reach different people throughdifferent channels and it's just
helping us grow, I guess, ourbreadth, our reach to, to
potential clients, and also justbuild recognition in the field.
And I think that's something Iwant to get into, maybe a little
bit later, about how awards fanegos.
But I'd just be interested tosee get your guys' take.
(16:39):
I mean, gerard, you've beenthere with an award-winning
project before.
Ben, you've been in and aroundaward-winning firms.
Yeah, the Warren Distributor.
Your first house?
Yeah, exactly, that's funny,though my one was yours as well.
Ben Sutherland (16:53):
I was thinking before.
I was like oh man, I don't evenknow who paid for that, yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (16:59):
You need to submit your house, Ben.
Ben Sutherland (17:02):
Yeah well, I don't well I.
Therein lies anotherconversation yeah, I'm too
scared though, because I don'twant to be judged by other
architects, and that's I'm beingreal there so you know, just so
I get to feel like I've wonyour award as well just because
you guys built it together I'vebeen on the construction side
(17:25):
quite a few times actually, butyou know, makers have built some
awesome stuff for some awesomearchitects, including themselves
and I think here's aninteresting different experience
yeah, I think there's aninteresting chat on like
architects getting credit andthen builders getting credit,
because oh, 100.
Sam Brown (17:44):
Well, I mean, like, I guess builders have their own
awards.
Ben Sutherland (17:47):
Do they?
Gerard Dombroski (17:49):
You know they have master build and things
like that.
It's different.
But, like at the NCAA awards.
They should be like givingprops to builders and stuff.
Sam Brown (17:59):
Oh 100%.
But, I think it's your duty asthe architect to give those
props.
You know you can't claim creditfor the success of a project
solely.
I think that's a bit off.
You know, for us, even like thetower that's just been
shortlisted absolutely no way wewould have been able to achieve
that without you know thefabrication team.
(18:20):
They did an amazing job and,like projects that have worked
on in the past you know thathave won awards te, aoha and the
marion as well like there's noway those projects would have
been executed to the level thatthey were and the success that
they are without like a goodconsultant and build team.
Gerard Dombroski (18:38):
so it's definitely I think, like the
awards, the critique of theawards in particular is that
it's like architects are theonly ones that care about it.
You know like are we gettingprops between each other?
Or like you're saying, you'regetting some more magazines
coming out there.
So are the awards reached thepublic, do you think?
Sam Brown (19:04):
Well, that was going to be one of my conversation
points, and I think that that isa good point, gerard is is do
the architecture awards pusharchitecture more into the
public eye?
And I think they do.
I mean, I don't think they getthe coverage that they probably
should.
I mean, architecture issomething that impacts people
(19:25):
every single day.
Regardless of who you are,where you come from, what you do
, you're impacted byarchitecture.
Good, bad, ugly, whatever and Ithink that there should be more
of a um, a media push in newzealand for recognition around
the awards.
I I know stuff always do like aquick article on who the
(19:47):
winners are after after theawards nights.
But I'm talking like you know,bullet points of these are the
winners, blah, blah, blah, andthat's a kind of thing, Whereas
I think that should probablyshould get more coverage,
particularly when you're lookingat these award categories like
multi-residential housing, urbandesign, development, commercial
.
These are projects that areimpacting huge amounts of people
(20:08):
and it would be lovely for themto sort of get that recognition
and understand architecture andits impact a little bit more.
Gerard Dombroski (20:14):
Yeah, I just think the point of the NZIA is
to promote architecture in NewZealand and support architects,
I guess.
And I just think it could go alittle bit further to like
bringing this to more of apublic thing.
Yeah, we go back to thatmarketing chat of HairMag doing
(20:35):
little open homes and stuff likeopening things up and engaging
with the public a little bitmore, I think would give more
meaning to the public to theseawards, because I love awards.
Awards are cool, but I think,beyond a mechanism to identify
good architecture, it's verycommonly seen as like a little
(20:56):
circle put on the back.
Sam Brown (20:58):
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, I agree it would benefiteveryone.
It's validation from your peers, but it would be interesting to
well.
Ben Sutherland (21:09):
it'd be interesting to get your guys
take and listeners as well it'salso validation for potential
you know client, future clientsas well, though oh yeah, that's
what I'm saying.
Gerard Dombroski (21:19):
It's like how do you?
It's a huge engage that withthe public more so then public
can actually look through thisstuff and go, oh, yeah, yeah.
But what if?
Ben Sutherland (21:28):
the winning designs had to like have.
When you sign up, you know thatthe winning designs have to
have some sort of like open day.
Gerard Dombroski (21:36):
Yeah, even if it was just for like.
Ben Sutherland (21:37):
NZIA members like how good would it be just
to be able to have a look aroundsome of these places.
Sam Brown (21:43):
Or a public day, you know, and they should definitely
serve tea and scones and thatsort of thing as well.
Gerard Dombroski (21:49):
Yeah, get the scones out, mate.
Sam Brown (21:51):
Everyone loves scones .
Gerard Dombroski (21:53):
An awesome example of this for me is the
Reba Awards, where they get oldKiwi boy, kevin MacLeod, and
they do like a TV series.
It's like five or six episodes.
Sam Brown (22:03):
Yeah, I've seen that.
I really like that as well.
Gerard Dombroski (22:07):
I think that's like an awesome way to engage
with the public.
Sam Brown (22:10):
We've got a.
Gerard Dombroski (22:10):
Grand Designs guy, why can't?
Sam Brown (22:12):
the NZIA.
Should we hit up Chris Muller?
Ben Sutherland (22:16):
Make a little.
Gerard Dombroski (22:16):
TV series.
Maybe we do it grassroots.
We'll just go out there withour iPhones, we can do that.
Sam Brown (22:24):
Guerrilla marketing for awards.
What are you guys?
Doing today what are you guysthoughts on?
You know if we're talking aboutpublic involvement or public
engagement.
What are you guys thoughts onpublic voting and or peer voting
?
Ben Sutherland (22:40):
I mean like, even if it was just its own
little category People's.
Gerard Dombroski (22:43):
Choice Award, people's Choice.
Ben Sutherland (22:44):
Award.
Sam Brown (22:47):
That's a great idea.
Let the judges shortlist theirprojects?
Yeah, absolutely.
But then put the shortlistedprojects out to the public and
go boom.
Ben Sutherland (22:57):
vote for your favourite People's Choice Award
would be fantastic.
The open days are so people canactually go around and have a
look.
Sam Brown (23:04):
So, nzia, if you're listening, take note.
Gerard Dombroski (23:07):
We've got all the ideas.
Come to us anytime.
Sam Brown (23:12):
I think that would be cool, though I mean obviously
you potentially run the risk ofpeople just hardcore campaigning
for their project.
Gerard Dombroski (23:22):
I think democratization of awards is
good.
Yeah, totally.
People's Choice Award isawesome.
Yeah, get it done, mate.
Sam Brown (23:31):
Okay.
Gerard Dombroski (23:32):
Start one of your little Instagram polls.
Ben Sutherland (23:35):
Hey, that's not a bad idea.
We could do that.
We could start an.
Gerard Dombroski (23:39):
Instagram profile and then whatever like
you just do in the profile, likeevery project, and then
whichever one gets the mostlikes is.
Sam Brown (23:48):
Is our unofficial People's Choice Award Unofficial
, official.
Yeah, unofficial officialPeople's Choice Award.
I like that a lot yeah,definitely.
Ben Sutherland (23:58):
Maybe we can start making up some of our own
categories as well.
There's definitely somecategories missing.
I don't know.
Have you guys thought aboutlike any other categories that
we could have, like most wow,integrated design, I don't know.
Gerard Dombroski (24:13):
Like crafty details, I think what I think
environmentally friendly biggestcantilever I like that one.
(24:40):
For a while the awards all werejust who's got the most seat of
slats yeah, yeah, they um Imean, but that this is a good
point.
Sam Brown (24:48):
I know we're talking.
We're talking about the nziaawards, right, but there are
other awards out there you know,and they do celebrate other
aspects of not just architecturebut design.
You know, there's the best ones, there's best ones, there's
Home of the Year, which is veryhouse-centric and quite often
Home of the Year's.
Don't win NZIA Awards or viceversa.
Is there any others out there?
Ben Sutherland (25:09):
Those sort of things come to mind.
Greensill must have theirawards, or something
sustainability ones.
Sam Brown (25:16):
Yeah, I don't know if they have anything NZGBC
doesn't have anything inparticular, but that's another
thing they probably should GreenBuilding of the Year.
Ben Sutherland (25:24):
Absolutely.
That's crazy that they don't.
I looked at the NZIA websiteand I saw these are a whole
bunch of other awards that theydo as well, just like various
practitioner awards and thenthere's even one.
There's even the john johnsutherland uh practice award,
which I I like because mygranddad's called john
sutherland oh there you go.
Sam Brown (25:44):
That's nice different .
Ben Sutherland (25:45):
You win that one day maybe I'll win that one one
day there's also I do like the.
I think a practice award'squite cool though but well, I
guess there's that right.
Sam Brown (25:55):
So we're talking about project-based awards, but
then there's alsoarchitect-based awards, so
there's every year we have thegold medal.
We have the gold medal award inNew Zealand.
Internationally, they have thePritzker Prize, which is the
equivalent of the Pulitzer forliterature, but the Pritzker is
the architectural one.
This year, raiken Yamamoto,japanese architect, one who said
(26:17):
that he does not believe he's agood designer and never has
been, so I was surprised to haveone.
I think he's being incrediblyhumble.
But you know, there are there'sthese other avenues for
recognition beyond what projectsyou do, but like who you are as
a practice and or who you areas an practice and or who you
are as an architect, and I thinkit's really cool to have those
(26:37):
other avenues as well.
And interestingly, gerard, Iknow you've got your own opinion
on this, but the winner of thegold medal, nzia gold medal
award this year, dr deirdrebrown.
I think it's the first timethat I've ever selected an
academic in that position.
I think that what's reallyinteresting about that?
I saw this note at the end ofthe press release about her
(26:57):
winning.
You know nzia, basically sayingthat it's the first time that
they have selected somebody notonly for her cultural impact,
but also somebody thatencompasses everything that
architecture is, and I thinkthat's really interesting
because so often we think of itas purely being the built form,
but it's so much more than that.
And you know she won because ofher impact culturally,
(27:19):
particularly on maoriarchitecture, but also her
impact on students in theteaching curriculum and
architecture and the impact thatshe's had through that, which I
think is really really cool.
Ben Sutherland (27:28):
So yeah, why?
What's your opinion, gerard?
Gerard Dombroski (27:31):
oh it's.
It just seems the first personto win that's not an architect
or hasn't done a building.
I might be wrong.
Ben Sutherland (27:38):
I tried really hard to find a building.
Does that insult yourarchitecture?
Gerard Dombroski (27:42):
architecture I just think there's like a lot
of really good architects.
They're like the award is forlike a body of work, like a.
It's kind of like a lifetimeaward, I guess.
And yes, she's contributed tolike the body, the wider body of
architecture, but perhaps likea different award would be more
(28:04):
appropriate yeah, interestinglike.
Melling Morse what they've like.
Yes, gerald's died, but theirbody of work was amazing and
they got lots of people Nicolaand Lance Herbst putting out
some absolute bangers afterbangers for years.
Sam Brown (28:19):
It's not to say that they're not in line to win again
in the future.
You know this is an annualaward.
Gerard Dombroski (28:27):
So it's an honourable thing.
It's for buildings, so like thehistory of the award is that it
used to be for our building.
They changed it in 90 I heardthe page on something but not
that long ago to be fair andthey changed it to about a body
(28:48):
of work right.
Sam Brown (28:49):
I think that's more important.
To be honest, I mean, you canyou can nail it with one
building and potentially hangyour hat on that for your whole
career.
But I think if you've trulysucceeded in architecture,
you've got a lifetime's body ofwork behind you that's impacted
society or individualscontinuously for decades.
You know what I mean.
Gerard Dombroski (29:09):
I think that's probably what our ultimate
objective is working in thisprofession For the end of the
day.
I in this profession.
Other awards to people like youcan't enter unless you're a
registered NZIA member.
Sam Brown (29:22):
That's true.
I mean, I think what would beinteresting and they have this
with is it Best Awards.
They have the Best EmergingDesigner.
It'd be interesting for NZIA torun sort of an award in that
ilk or for there to be anarchitectural award in that elk
of, like, best emerging practiceor best emerging architect.
I think that would be quiteinteresting because I did notice
(29:44):
this year in particular,there's a lot of new or young,
really interesting practicesthat have entered awards, maybe
not necessarily for the firsttime, but definitely getting
their dues paid and no, as atglazima from auckland, they've
got five short lists orsomething and that stuff's
amazing.
It's really, really cool.
They're a young firm.
There's a couple of other, yeahthat's the one, thank you yeah,
(30:09):
yeah, that's what I'm thinkingof.
You know these.
It'd be cool to kind of thesepeople to get their recognition
as well, because I don't knowabout you guys, but we're all in
our 30s.
It seems to me that you don'treally get the recognition, uh,
in architecture until you may be, uh, at the twilight end of
(30:29):
your career, unless you'resomeone like biaga angles, who
has sort of been put on thepedestal from a young age.
But everybody else you know,you're sort of looking at 50, 60
years old until you get theprops.
Gerard Dombroski (30:41):
That's what's great about architecture, though
I think he's like done somepretty epic work.
Sam Brown (30:47):
Oh, absolutely, he started from winning a
competition.
Ben Sutherland (30:50):
So.
Sam Brown (30:51):
I'm not saying it's unjustified.
Gerard Dombroski (31:01):
I'm just saying, you know, know, there's
not that many young architectsthat I think.
Actually something, somethingabout big like appeals to like a
wider audience, is that some ofthose architecture concepts are
like pretty comprehensible,like well presented in those,
you know, those classic bigdiagrams how many followers do
you think we need to get beforewe can get Bjarke and?
Sam Brown (31:16):
Gulls on the show.
I'd say we need quite a fewmore.
Ben Sutherland (31:19):
Maybe that could be our goal, maybe three more?
Sam Brown (31:22):
Or just meet them at the right place at the right
time and, like, corner them witha microphone.
Gerard Dombroski (31:28):
He was saying we have some followers.
We have some followers onSpotify.
Yeah, we might have some.
I know three followers.
We have some followers onSpotify.
Somebody listens to these rants.
Ben Sutherland (31:35):
I know three followers that we definitely
have and you know that'sinternational in.
Gerard Dombroski (31:44):
Oh, is that because Nina's in Italy?
Hi Nina, Thanks for listening.
Sam Brown (31:49):
Okay, so this is good .
This is a good sort of segueinto another thing I wanted to
talk about.
So we just talked about thenumber of followers we have.
Obviously that's like a littleself-satisfaction thing because
ultimately we do want thispodcast to be a success.
But like, doesn't matter,probably not.
But here's my question is doyou think that the awards are
(32:10):
important for our validation asarchitects and, like you know
what, as a personally, for yourego, for your success of your
business?
For, I guess, your level ofvalidation like okay, I've been
an architect registered, howevermany years, I've done a bunch
of buildings, but does anybodyactually like them, kind of
(32:31):
thing do you think that theawards or not necessarily nzia
ones, but ones in general gosome sort of way in?
Gerard Dombroski (32:39):
uh confidence in yourself.
Well, you hope that, like,awards are uh the mechanism to
like identify good architecture.
So it's like it's fact checking, like am I doing good
architecture?
I'm trying to do goodarchitecture and then hopefully
somebody out there is validatingthat and coming up with a list
of buildings that they think aregood so you definitely think
(33:02):
that it is sean godsell's ranton that australian marketing
podcast absolutely amazingepisode.
Love sean godsell.
But he talks about like work.
Getting in particular bookslike is is important because
there's like educated peoplethat are making like intentional
(33:22):
decisions on what they deemgood architecture to put in
their publications.
So yeah, I think there's amechanism to identify that and
then if somebody else then saysyou are doing a good job, that's
enormously rewarding.
Sam Brown (33:37):
It's epic it's kind of that industry-wide pat on the
back a little bit.
Ben Sutherland (33:41):
Eh, it's quite nice well, I guess it's also
just like a career progression,as in like you feel like you're
evolving in some way in theright direction yeah that's got
to feel good, like if thispodcast ever got a what are they
called webby award or somethinglike that.
I mean I would be absolutelymind-blowing but.
(34:03):
I would be feeling pretty damngood about myself.
I can tell you that you go ben.
Sam Brown (34:08):
Would you rather a webby or whatever they're called
, or an nzia award right now?
Gerard Dombroski (34:13):
obviously strive, strive to achieve both
aim high something that I founda really nice pat on the back is
my little um carmandal hut gotlast year nominated for world
building of the Year on ArcDaily.
(34:34):
Yeah, that's your little Ibuilt for free, and we probably
spent three grand at ITMI.
Yeah, I thought that was.
They work on a nomination basis, so maybe my mum went on there
and nominated me.
Very nice.
Sam Brown (34:50):
but but that's great.
Gerard Dombroski (34:52):
That was epic.
When I got that email I waslike holy fuck, yeah, I mean
that's that, that, that was epic.
Sam Brown (34:55):
When I got that email I was like holy fuck.
Yeah, I mean, that's a greatpoint, gerard, that is, that's
incredible that was like yeah,world recognition, right, like
that's huge and that's.
You know, it's cool to do thenzi awards, but making that it's
incredible.
Did anything come of it?
Gerard Dombroski (35:09):
uh, no like.
What I was up against was likeishigami's restaurant house, the
one sunk underground.
Yeah, Dug holes filled it withconcrete dug out the dirt
Slightly different budgetAmazing.
Well, conceptually, thatproject is the epitome of
identifying good architecture.
Yeah, that is every essence ofthe word architecture.
Sam Brown (35:33):
The beautiful thing about that, though, the word
architecture, and the beautifulthing about that, though, and
you know, is this well, it'sjust.
It's just amazing things likethe scope architecture has right
, like you talk about your tinylittle piccolo thing made with
recycled materials in the bushand, you know, in rural new
zealand versus you know thishuge budget, massive concept
(35:55):
kind of you know reallyincredible pieces of
architecture, but that's,they're put side by side and you
know that's awesome, massivevalidation to you as a designer,
like clearly I've seen yourproject and I think it's
incredible.
You know, but you know merit toyou as a designer in a big way.
Clearly you've got what ittakes to produce something
that's pretty sensational for it.
(36:15):
You clearly you've got what ittakes to produce something
that's pretty sensational, forit to reach those levels.
I think that's cool oh, cheersman.
Yeah, that was a fun, very funmonth yeah, I mean what's
interesting from that, though I,you know, obviously I asked
didn't come from it and I guessmaybe the question and word it
quite right in terms of winning,but like beyond that, yeah,
(36:36):
well, that's that's the funnything, right like you can sort
of get this recognition, and Iguess this comes back to, uh,
the media side of things outsideof architecture, potentially
even just your peer group withinnew Zealand.
Did anybody take note?
Like that's the tough thing, eh.
Gerard Dombroski (36:57):
Well, I think Simon from here jumped on real
quick.
Sure, yeah, so I thought thatwas the best validation.
Sam Brown (37:06):
But for a New Zealand designer to have that level of
international recognition, thatshould be national news, in my
opinion.
Ben Sutherland (37:13):
I think it's up to yourselves to kind of push,
push your own projects.
Unfortunately, a little bit.
It's the same with anyone whowins in any type of award.
They've kind of got a build onthe back of that award and try
and make some sort of awarenessout of it?
Gerard Dombroski (37:30):
I'm not sure yeah, I find it really hard to
go from there forward.
It's kind of not my personalityto to put your work out there
coming up and going.
Look at me, look at me so yeah,keep on going keep on designing
.
Ben Sutherland (37:44):
They're yelling some more.
The proof will come out in thephone again.
Gerard Dombroski (37:47):
Yeah, if we go long enough maybe, if you know
it doesn't fall down, maybe oneday we'll get an enduring award
I should probably enter it intothe awards.
Sam Brown (37:55):
You should probably do that.
Yeah, exactly.
Gerard Dombroski (37:58):
Here's the other issue is there's people
making banger buildings thatwe're just not entering?
Sam Brown (38:03):
Well, that's the thing, and I guess I've worked
for a firm in the past whichdidn't necessarily discredit the
awards, but they didn't.
They'd been part of that awardprocess before in the past.
They'd been on the juries andeverything and they'd sort of
just grown maybe a little bitfatigued by the process, I think
.
And it definitely took usyounger people in that firm at
(38:26):
the time to kind of pushprojects forward for awards.
The directors didn't see thatthey needed it to grow the
business and they didn't feellike they needed that validation
for themselves because they'dhad it in the past, kind of
thing.
But I definitely think forgraduates coming through,
younger architects working inbigger firms, I think it's
really important for them topush their work forward.
(38:46):
Gerard, looking at you, becauseI do think that it's.
It's a way for you as a youngdesigner to get your name out
there.
You know, I think we're sooften against up against big,
well-established firms and orindividuals in the in the field
and it's good for us to sort ofbe there challenging them and
challenging their ideas as well.
Ben Sutherland (39:08):
Yeah, exactly, and we are our own brand at the
end of the day.
Sam Brown (39:12):
I've talked about that before.
Gerard Dombroski (39:14):
Things like Instagram are are a good
equalizer democratizing, butmaybe, like maybe, there's a
chat there of that instagram'stoo visual heavy and it's just
not reaching the right peopleyeah, have you guys seen um
chris tate's house in piha, thislittle black box up on a little
(39:35):
concrete v?
Absolute mad dog.
And you know he's obviously notinto it, because I don't see
that in the list.
Ben Sutherland (39:44):
Some.
Some of them take a while tocome through, though hey,
there's some.
There's some ones, I noticed,that were built years ago, that
have.
So there's a five year.
Sam Brown (39:53):
You have to enter it within five years of completion
but I do well, I do know a lotof people do wait and they wait
because they want the project tobe just like landscaping to be
done, it to be bedded in, it tobe looking like what their final
vision is.
Gerard Dombroski (40:07):
Planting's huge man.
I had a rant the other day to aguy at uni who's in the
landscape department and I wassaying that like architects
should do, like architecturestudent should do a landscape
paper, be forced to do alandscape paper because like it
is the ultimate, likeintegration into site.
Oh incredibly so, actuallyknowing how to prepare soil or
(40:33):
like.
So, contractors, don't justgravel the entire site and then
you're left with well what.
Sam Brown (40:40):
What I find really interesting is exactly well,
exactly on that point you'reright.
I mean, we're super fortunatewith the karaka tower and that
we helicoptered it into thisincredibly well-established bush
area, you know.
So we had to trim a few treesto obviously drop the modules
into place, but once thebuilding was in place, it had
(41:02):
kind of been like it had beenthere forever.
All the trees around it areestablished, all the gardens are
established, and so itimmediately bedded in.
It looked great.
Recently just finished a projectdown in lake hawera in central
otago and the house looksamazing, but it's sitting in
this barren wasteland you knowand you're sort of like well,
(41:25):
yeah, you're sort of like shit,man, this isn't going to
actually look finished for years, and I guess that is why people
do wait to put their projectsin, because they do want it to
look better than they want it tolook like the finished product,
not just a finished building,you know, because the
architecture is so much beyondjust that physical form mom's
(41:46):
projects, having some pauseswhile we try redivert some
hidden cables, which has beenplanting up a storm in the in
the courtyard.
Gerard Dombroski (41:56):
the one we're doing for mom is just like a
courtyard house a big mound andplants.
But it's like I'm super stokedon it at the moment, getting the
plants in there and by the timewe're finished it's going to be
like a fully ingrained gardenimmediately.
Sam Brown (42:11):
Yeah, that's pretty cool, that's amazing.
Gerard Dombroski (42:13):
Which is pretty cool Beyond awards, sorry
bro, karen, oh, just that onewas very reliant on landscape to
be successful.
Sam Brown (42:23):
Yeah, beyond, you know, awards for physical, built
, real projects.
I mean, have you guys partakenin any competitions?
I mean that's another avenuefor validation, potentially Not
necessarily for your completedwork, but your design style or
your aesthetic in a way.
I mean, have you?
Gerard Dombroski (42:43):
used to race in the past.
Ben Sutherland (42:45):
Well, it is a competition yeah, I used to do
quite a few when I was atuniversity with Chris Chris
Moller.
Yeah, hang out with him quite abit and it was awesome because
it's exactly as you say.
You really got to learn hisstyle of designing and it's
(43:06):
similar every single time,similar process, and how he goes
about doing things is reallylike a old school.
Everything is kind of reallyhand drawn and hand developed.
So awesome, awesome toexperience and did a number of
projects with him, which wascool as well because he he
doesn't really use any, uh,digital software.
(43:27):
So if you can use revit oranything like that, uh, it was
extremely helpful.
So, um, yeah, did quite a fewthere, international ones as
well uh, we well, it'sinteresting.
Sam Brown (43:38):
Really well, we developed some were these idea
projects or project, uh sorryidea competitions or project
competitions, projectcompetitions, yeah, but yeah out
there spots as well so, ben, isthat to win projects rather
than just to come up with theconcept, right cool?
Gerard Dombroski (43:59):
no, yeah, that's the sort of competition
I'm interested in like.
I did one um for this chapel inrwanda and I was like, oh man,
that's yeah, that would be anepic project.
So I did this thing and Irealized oh, it's actually just
an idea.
Sam Brown (44:11):
Competition yeah, but even even in saying that though
, gerard, what that lets you dois it lets you design with
freedom right, you know you'rekind of unconstrained and it
lets you probably express yourtrue design voice, because
you're given a brief but you'renot sort of in that meeting with
the clients and feeling likeconstricted by what they want to
do, or you know budget's notreally talked about in ideas
(44:35):
competitions.
Gerard Dombroski (44:38):
I don't particularly agree with that.
I think there's design freedomeverywhere.
I think it's parameters are ourfreedom in essence.
Ben Sutherland (44:46):
Nowadays, our idea, uh, competition is trying
to get a job off gets orsomething like that not so long
ago and he turned up, he did thesite visit and how many people
were on site, gerard oh, I waslike 36 or something.
Gerard Dombroski (45:06):
It was basically just a massive
architecture, everyone fromeverywhere I was like is this
like an nzia event or?
Sam Brown (45:15):
something I feel like those is this, the design
series, is somebody I feel likethose it's interesting, those
gets things as well, because youturn up to them and you see
who's there and you're like, ohwell, they've clearly, they
clearly know who they're goingto use already and they're just
going through the processes ohyeah, but hey, you got to, you
got to talk to some interestingpeople.
Ben Sutherland (45:36):
Didn, didn't you , Gerard?
Yeah?
Gerard Dombroski (45:38):
some good yarns.
Love a good yarn.
Sam Brown (45:43):
One thing that we haven't really talked about and
there's two things I just wantto kind of tap off before you
know, in the last sort of stagesof this episode.
But do you guys reckon that theawards are more objective or
subjective, depending on who thejudges are year to year, and
(46:04):
that's a two-part question.
And within that, do you reckonthere's a general taste of
projects that have been selected, particularly this year, given
the ones that we're discussing,or do you think that the breadth
is wide and that the sort ofchosen projects that don't
necessarily fit one ilk, and isthere an evolving style from
(46:25):
years before?
Gerard Dombroski (46:26):
well, I think lots of colloquial pub chat
you'd hear back in the day isthat if you put cedar slats
you're getting awarded, and I'mthinking that's a distinct lack
of cedar slats.
So I think that's a goodevolution.
Like they're just scrollingthrough, like there seems to be
(46:46):
quite a diverse like I thoughtthat as well.
Sam Brown (46:49):
I thought for maybe for the first time and maybe
because I'm, you know, involvedin this I have been in the past,
but I think maybe a little bitmore so, given this is my first
time being shortlisted been inthe past, but I think maybe a
little bit more so, given thisis my first time being
shortlisted for my own practice.
But I thought that the range ofprojects that have been
shortlisted is really diverseand you know, that sort of was
(47:09):
mirrored in the judging panelthat I met.
You know they all came fromvery different backgrounds and
approached the project and Iassume their judging criteria in
very different ways as well,from very different backgrounds
and approached the project and Iassume they're judging criteria
in very different ways as wellasked very different questions,
some of them very practical,some of them a bit more about
the design process, some of themwere sort of talking about the
materiality and the ephemeral,and I thought that was a really
(47:30):
good balance and I think thatthat has been mirrored in the
projects that have been selected.
I don't know.
Ben Sutherland (47:37):
No, I agree.
I think there's a high qualityof architecture in this country
and they should definitely bepromoted a lot more.
I had a good look through and Ididn't see anything that I
didn't think deserved to bethere for sure.
Sam Brown (47:54):
And I think they're definitely discerning.
I think Wellington has 36 shortit, 36 shortlisted projects Off
the top of my head, butsomething like 68 entries, so
only half got through.
I know Auckland was less thanhalf the entries were awarded.
I do know that for likeSouthern and Western, everyone
(48:14):
that entered won, but you knowthey only had like 17 entries or
something.
So I think it's important forthem to you know celebrate
everybody in those areas,because the architecture quality
is still really high.
Ben Sutherland (48:27):
Absolutely.
Gerard Dombroski (48:28):
Yeah, I think like going back to the sort of
bringing it back to the public,I think would be like an awesome
move forward if NZA did end uplike adopting, like a little
Kevin MacLeod style, a couple ofepisodes on TV or something.
Ben Sutherland (48:45):
TV and scones.
That would be awesome.
Gerard Dombroski (48:47):
Because I think there needs to be like to
go to a slightly deeper level onrepresentation of some of the
projects, because I guess you'reat slight risk of perpetuating
this idea that architects areacidic vanity loving.
You know, we're there for theimage well, I don't know about
that actually for the public andit's to showcase good examples.
(49:12):
Sorry, continue yeah, sorry,continue.
Yeah, let me talk.
I think from the public I oftenhear a sentiment that, oh,
architects just want a freebuilding or this or that.
But we know that there's moredepth there and we want to make
spaces that enrich people'slives lower carbon, all these
(49:35):
things and I think having amechanism in the awards that
goes a little bit into moredepth on like the winning
projects, for example, to reallylike draw that link to the
general public, like the youknow, moms and dads who don't
care about architectural awardsyep, because like we're talking
(49:56):
the other day about engagingwith people that don't know they
want an architect, which is therest of the world.
So I think, like how we engagewith them is pretty important
and we could all benefit from.
Sam Brown (50:07):
Well, interestingly, Gerard, when you do enter and I
think it could be done reallyeasily what you're talking about
, yeah, it's not hard.
No, because when you do enter to, you have to fill out quite a
comprehensive outline of yourproject.
You need to talk about what yourbrief was, your site and
context, materiality, impact onthe community, impact on the
environment, sustainability, andyou have to also mention like
(50:31):
the cost and the scale and allthis sort of stuff.
So you have to give quite aquite comprehensive project
breakdown which is given to thejudges along with your pretty
pictures.
And I think if thatcomprehensive breakdown which
we're required to put in in thejudges read that's never then
shot back up to the generalpublic and I think it absolutely
(50:52):
should be like why shouldn'tyou be able to click into a
shortlisted project and see thatbreakdown?
So if you know, say, jeff andjeff and belinda from down the
road were like I really lovethat house, I want to know more
about it.
They can click in and find outmore.
And then it's more than themjust looking at a pretty picture
and being like I really likethat house and they're like I
really like that house and theway the architect's gone about
(51:13):
it, and I think that would helpus in terms of our engagement
with the public from a potentialclient point of view yeah yeah,
absolutely.
Ben Sutherland (51:25):
Oh well, should we.
Um it's finished.
Should we wrap it up?
Sam Brown (51:30):
yeah, maybe, maybe, but um, yeah, I mean good chat.
I think I've talked about thisall day.
Well, yeah, exactly, I mean,and there's that and there's
stuff that we haven't covered aswell.
I think one thing that we'revery architecture focused today,
and I obviously understandably,given that we're all in that
field.
But I think the sameconversation could definitely be
had for any creative field, beit literature, art, design.
(51:52):
Gerard, you know like it'll beinteresting one day, yeah, well,
yeah, we probably don't havethe time right now, but get your
take on.
You know the role of awards infurniture and things like that
as well, because that'sdefinitely an industry where
awards are very important, I'dsay, and quite prevalent.
Gerard Dombroski (52:11):
Here's a quick funny story.
A while ago, I submitted fourprojects to the Best Awards.
This was like 2018 or somethinglike back in the day.
Um, my giant blue couch, yeah,the couch, yep, that's like
these projects that were epic,epic projects and never got
anywhere.
So like 1200 bucks down thedrain right, that was humble pie
(52:34):
but I mean, you tackled oneavenue right.
There are other avenues maybe,but you can't find all your
validation in an award.
Like, we're all artists in ourown sort of realm and what we're
working towards sometimes willbe recognized by other people
and sometimes not.
So I think that's.
I think if awards swayed youtoo much, if they, like, gave
(52:59):
you a reason to live or not tolive, if that was your sole
focus.
Sam Brown (53:02):
You should probably be rethinking things be overly
concerned with awards.
Gerard Dombroski (53:08):
I think we're more just trying to work, work
on our craft and this littleideas in our own head that I
find potentially more important.
Sam Brown (53:17):
Yeah, it's the cherry on the cake, right, but you
still want to meet them.
Gerard Dombroski (53:20):
Yeah, but I love the award and they're
awesome.
It's good to validate and Ilove to share the stoke, so if
somebody's doing awesome work, Ireally hope they're getting
high fives.
Sam Brown (53:31):
Well, that's actually a good place to leave things.
I think Gerard is share thestoke.
I mean everybody this yearthat's been shortlisted.
If you win or don't, yeah, hugecongratulations and good luck.
Well-deserved good luck, butalso if you win or don't win.
You know credit.
You've made it this far atleast.
And for those that even enteredand weren't shortlisted, don't
(53:51):
be, you know, don't bedisheartened.
Your projects still, stillincredible projects.
If they weren't, you wouldn'thave thought about entering.
So take heart from that andjust enter next year.
Ben Sutherland (54:04):
Absolutely yeah.
I mean, if you've got a projectthat you're even thinking about
entering or thought aboutentering, then kudos to you.
Sam Brown (54:13):
Yeah, but yeah, good luck to everybody and I guess we
will probably return sometimein the next couple of months
with the winners.
Yeah, thanks very much andthat's all from me.
Gerard, do you want?
To thank, mr Stantz.
Gerard Dombroski (54:29):
Cheers, guys, and we will talk to you in two
weeks.
Thanks again to Jacob Marshallfor the sound and Colin Dolman
for the visual art.
See you, guys, next time.
Welcome back to the design principle podcast.
I am sam brown from a redarchitects and I'm once again
here with Ben Sutherland frombear architecture and Gerard
Dombroski from GerardDombroski's studio.
Welcome back, boys.
How's it going?
Ben Sutherland (00:28):
Good, good, happy Easter.
Sam Brown (00:31):
Oh yeah, thank you.
We are recording on EasterFriday today.
So in solidarity for our goodLord, we are all having a pint.
Ben Sutherland (00:39):
Or a wine enjoying life.
Sam Brown (00:42):
Yeah, exactly, maybe not, Gerard.
So we thought, given the recentuh announcement of the nzia,
which is the new zealandinstitute of architects,
shortlists for architectureawards in 2024, it'd be a good
chance to have a chat about theawards and just the position or
place of awards in creativefields in general.
(01:06):
But before we get into that, Ijust want to have a little bit
of a gripe, mainly with acertain type of plant.
So if there's any landscapedesigners, architects,
homeowners, gardeners, whoeverout there that likes to get
their green thumb green, this iswhat I have to say to you never
(01:26):
, ever, plant agapanthus.
Oh yeah, they're the worst.
Oh, my god, I've literally justspent half a day pulling out
agapanthus and I already knowthat when I wake up tomorrow
morning they'll be back andthey'll continue to multiply
like bamboo shoots throughoutour garden forever and a day.
(01:49):
My question is do they have anybenefit?
I don't think they look good,the flowers dry out and go
crusty and gross.
They're itchy.
The sap from them is reallyitchy and they're a bloody pain
in the ass.
Gerard Dombroski (02:09):
Yeah, they're sticky.
Ben Sutherland (02:11):
Another one that's a pain in the ass is
gorse, and people tried to getrid of that for a long time, but
it actually sequesters a highamount of carbon, so it's very
good for the environment.
Sam Brown (02:23):
Oh well, that's a tick in Gorse's category.
So unless somebody else cancome to me with a positive for
Agapantha, I'm straight up herevetoing it forever and a day.
Gerard Dombroski (02:33):
Gorse is actually an awesome nurse canopy
for regenerating forestsbecause it dies very quickly
once it loses sunlight.
So as soon as the plants comeup through it.
Ben Sutherland (02:43):
It dies off real quick and obviously a bacteria
for families as well.
Gerard Dombroski (02:47):
so we hear at dpp a pro gorse if you're up, if
you're after a forest, more forit.
Ben Sutherland (02:57):
Yeah my dad bought this hill in napier once
and it was all it was was agigantic gorse bush.
The whole hill was just coveredin gorse and he ended up
lasting maybe like only for liketwo months.
He couldn't handle it anymorebecause he was just chopping
gorse all day.
And I remember he sold it and Iremember seeing like two weeks
(03:17):
later the whole thing was justup on flames.
The new owner must have justgone along and tortured the
whole.
Sam Brown (03:24):
Thing.
Gerard Dombroski (03:29):
It's the way to deal with it.
Sam Brown (03:30):
Eh, too much of a moist plant can't burn it also
in the center city it's a littlebit, uh, questionable,
particularly in wellington,where it's blowing a gale 99.9
percent of the time, probablyshouldn't burn your gorse in the
city center.
No no, anyway, sorry for thatwee segue, I just had to get
that out there because it's justdriving me up the wall.
(03:51):
But back to awards.
So, as I said, the nzia haveannounced their awards, of the
shortlists for their awards, andI know that the judges have
been around to, if not all, avery vast majority of them may I
just jump in there?
Ben Sutherland (04:04):
how do you know that?
Sam Brown (04:06):
oh well, we're fortunate enough to have been
shortlisted for a project in thewellington awards
congratulations, thank you.
Ben Sutherland (04:13):
Thank you very much.
Yeah, well done.
How does it?
Sam Brown (04:15):
feel, uh, it's quite humbling I think yeah, stoked
yep, it's nice.
I mean, you sort of this is agood way of kind of getting into
the conversation, I guess.
I mean you put yourself outthere a little bit, were you a
little?
Bit nervous or in the judgesround.
Ben Sutherland (04:33):
Yeah, I guess like especially architecture is
like your biggest judges areother architects.
You know, you don't really carewhat anyone else thinks about
your designs, but otherarchitects.
Well, you want the clients tobe happy.
Sam Brown (04:47):
There's that, there's a bit of that.
It's uh, it's interesting.
A like you do.
You kind of expose yourself alittle bit well, you put
yourself out there a little bit,you're open to critique and so
you're sort of hoping for thebest.
But I think deep down you knowwhen you have a project that is
(05:08):
worthy of recognition and youknow it may not necessarily get
that through the award you knowthe nzia awards but there's
other award awards or avenuesthat you can target down, or
publication, things like that.
But yeah, I mean, it was prettycool and it was nice.
We, the judges, come around,you do a little tour around your
projects with them, and it wasreally nice to to do that last
(05:31):
weekend with the clients andwith the judges as well and sort
of see how it's about fivemonths on from when we completed
the project and you kind of seehow stoked the clients still
are, how much it's affectedtheir lives in a positive and
they were, yeah, exactly, andthey were singing up praises
singing up praises to the judges, which was cool.
(05:52):
So yeah, no, pretty, pretty,chuffed, fingers crossed.
May 23rd is when, well,wellingtons are announced.
I don't know about the othercenters, but yeah, looking
forward to a big night.
But yeah, it's interesting.
You know, this year there'sbeen, I think, a record number
of entries.
By my account, and I'm justquickly looking on the website
here, 26 projects uh have beenshortlisted for gisborne, hawks
(06:16):
bay, 17 projects nelsonmarlborough, 13 projects.
Western, which is the westcoast, uh 36 projects for
wellington, 29 projects.
Southern, which is sort of likecentral otago, uh, southland
and dunedin, 60 projects forauckland, 34 canterbury, 31,
(06:36):
waikato bay, aplenty.
So yeah, quite a few, quite afew amazing pieces out there.
Ben Sutherland (06:46):
May I just ask what category were you in?
Sam Brown (06:50):
We have been shortlisted for small projects,
cool.
So we're up against inWellington.
We're up against First LightStudio for their St Hilda's
Church renovation and KellyArchitects for a wee renovation
that she's done.
I can't remember the name ofher project off the top of my
head, but interestingly we'rewe're very much newcomers, or,
(07:11):
as a ret architects, we're verymuch newcomers to this award
scene, and we're up against two,I'd say, well-established and
well-decorated architecturefirms.
Yeah, I'd say, and in firstlight, enter and win annually.
So fingers crossed, but yeah,we'll see what happens.
It's an exciting thing to bepart of.
Ben Sutherland (07:29):
Yeah, I don't want to float my own boat, but a
few years ago now I went to theNZIA Awards Our friend over
there, gerard Dabrowski.
One of his designs won an awardand he took me along as his
plus one.
Oh, that's cute we go.
Sam Brown (07:50):
So, gerard, I mean as a winner yourself, do you think
that the award process, uh, isworth it, and how do you, and
how do you think it has eithershaped or molded um or
influenced you personally and inyour practice?
Ben Sutherland (08:04):
and did your boss at the time win any more
more work from your awesomedesign?
Gerard Dombroski (08:11):
yeah I wonder if you actually get any work out
of it probably this year.
I just could not actuallyafford to enter so well this
year on the basis that Icouldn't afford it that is.
Sam Brown (08:24):
that is one of the talking points that I had
outlined for today was isentering awards a cost barrier
for small or growing firms?
It'd be interesting to talkabout the cost-benefit analysis,
because, you're right, gerard,it's expensive All awards are
expensive.
Gerard Dombroski (08:42):
If somebody's winning a bunch of awards,
they're paying a lot ofsubscription submitting fees.
Sam Brown (08:48):
Well, I guess you've got to.
Well, you have to be an NZIA,you know, an NZIA registered
firm.
Gerard Dombroski (08:54):
Yeah, well, that's my first issue.
I'm not a NZIA registered firm.
Oh, you're not there, you go.
Ben Sutherland (08:58):
Well, that's not .
That wouldn't be hard for youto resolve, though.
Sam Brown (09:06):
Yeah, you to resolve though.
Yeah, but what's?
Gerard Dombroski (09:07):
that like is it like 1200 bucks or something,
or yeah, it might even be morethe outline of cost for me just
to get one award when I can justcollate.
I'll just wait a year or twountil I have a few more
buildings and we'll just do itall at once that's a good idea.
Sam Brown (09:16):
Yeah, it is interesting and we sort of
played that game ourselves thisyear.
We're like is it worth it?
And I think we were fairlyconfident with the karaka tower,
which, which has beenshortlisted, and we also put in
the recent renovation or recentnew sorry, new fit out for mojo
and brandon street, and that waswe weren't so sure whether we'd
(09:36):
win that one, but we we sort ofdid it as a as a way of I
trying to invoke a bit ofconfidence in us from our client
.
We're like newly appointedarchitects for Mojo, the coffee
barons of Wellington.
And they're super stoked withtheir new space and we're pretty
(09:57):
happy with it too, and wethought, you know, put it in for
awards and let's see if it getsany traction.
Unfortunately it hasn't, butyou know that's fine.
Ben Sutherland (10:05):
It's still an awesome design, though.
Sam Brown (10:07):
Yeah, I think it's really really cool and you know
you can sort of put something inand hope yeah, it's a good
client to have A great client.
But you know, we sort of did itnot so much as a let's hope we
get an award, but more of a likelet's actually really try and
solidify this relationship andyou know, build a bit of
confidence in us and the brandand, yeah, hope you get it.
Gerard Dombroski (10:33):
The award's sort of a bonus in a way.
Sam Brown (10:38):
That first light in the church was pretty epic.
Gerard Dombroski (10:41):
It is cool.
Ben Sutherland (10:41):
Yeah, it's very cool, love that little faceted
laser cut business.
Other than the subscription,how much do you have to pay to
get in there?
Sam Brown (10:48):
So it depends on the size of your firm.
So if you're a one to I thinkit's a three-person firm it's
$395 or something like that,plus GST per entry, and then it
obviously goes up for largerfirms.
So it's about 500 bucks, let'ssay.
Gerard Dombroski (11:09):
Um it's like the entry thing.
Tricky thing with awards islike are they?
Well, they are making money offawards generally they're now
subscriptions and stuff.
People paying it like drums upa bit of a buzz yeah, and I
think.
Sam Brown (11:24):
Well, I just think for us, you know, we could not
have spent that money anywhereelse.
You know, in terms ofadvertising or what have you and
got the same level of exposureor recognition that we have so
far through this process?
You know what I mean.
So you know we've we've got acouple of publications now with
(11:45):
the tower and things like that,and this is off the back of the
awards.
I don't reckon we would havebeen able to spend 500 bucks
with an advertiser or whateverand got the same result.
So that's a positive, but it'sa risky positive.
You know it's not necessarily agiven.
Yeah, so it's an interesting one, I think you know you see firms
that are there every year.
You know we talked about firstlie and you know you definitely
(12:07):
see repeat offenders in a goodway.
They're obviously architecturefirms that like, do amazing work
all the time and want toshowcase that.
But I'd also say it's probablypart of their brand, or you know
their business strategy toenter awards and I'd say they
budget for it as well.
But you know, for us, assmaller and growing firms, it's
(12:28):
quite new.
Gerard Dombroski (12:29):
Yeah, I think the discussion is heavily tied
to marketing.
Ben Sutherland (12:33):
Yeah, yeah, the real winners are the judges.
They probably get paid and theyget to go and have a look
through all the awesomearchitecture, private tours of
all these places, and I'd loveto know how they how they pick,
pick the judges.
Sam Brown (12:50):
It was a really, you know my I guess my own
experience this year is with thewellington group, but I thought
it was a really great, reallydiverse group of judges.
It sort of came at theiranalysis of the project quite
differently, which I thought wasreally good so is it not the
same judges for the whole NewZealand?
Ben Sutherland (13:06):
Is it different region by region, as far as I
understand?
I don't.
Sam Brown (13:09):
I think it's regional .
Oh, okay, it didn't used to be.
I have a feeling it used to bethe same judging group for the
whole country.
Ben Sutherland (13:15):
Well, maybe this is more the NZIA, the second
awards, which are the locals?
Sam Brown (13:27):
No, these are the locals.
The um national.
Yeah, I imagine the nationalswill have the same judging group
, but I think post-covid andsort of cost of living tightness
and things like that, that, andalso you know the the carbon
emission required to fly judgesall around the country for
awards is probably a little bitfrowned upon.
So they've been a bit smarterabout that now and yeah it looks
like they're all uh differentjudges just so yeah, sam, do you
(13:52):
have a list of the awards as in, like the actual categories?
Ben Sutherland (13:56):
I'd be.
I'd be quite interested to know.
Sam Brown (13:57):
I know there's like commercial, residential,
commercial education, heritage,hospitality housing, housing
alterations and additions,housing, multi-unit interior
planning, urban design, publicsmall project nice, it's quite,
it's quite a big category what Ifound really interesting
(14:18):
looking through the shortlistthis year in terms of the
categories, as I say, for thefirst time I've I've really seen
a huge amount of shortlistedprojects in, like the heritage
categories and and also multi,multi-unit residential, and I'd
say that is a very much anexample of the changing times
(14:39):
you know I'd say that a lot ofheritage work being undertaken,
one because people are lookingat reuse from a sustainability
point of view, um, but alsothere's a lot of earthquake
strengthening work.
So that sort of heritage thinggoes hand in hand with that.
Are you talking?
Gerard Dombroski (14:52):
about like working on heritage buildings
versus like a heritage award forenduring architecture correct?
Sam Brown (14:59):
yes, yep, so the enduring architecture awards
separate, isn't it?
Because so you, you get aheritage.
So the Enduring ArchitectureAward's separate, isn't it?
Because you get a heritage.
So the shortlisted projects forheritage are working on
heritage buildings, versus theEnduring Architecture Award.
I don't think you enter yourproject.
I think you're selected, areyou not?
And that's for projects thatwere completed in the past, are
(15:20):
still around and still holdgreat architectural merit.
Gerard Dombroski (15:28):
Yeah, I think that's a perfect award.
Sam Brown (15:29):
award, that's the one you want to get.
Yeah, I mean, that shows yourlongevity, right.
You've been in the game andperforming to a high level for a
long time or you've just donesomething dope in the past.
Yeah cool, yeah cool, it's,it's, it's, yeah I.
The whole award thing is aninteresting conversation and you
know we've already talked aboutwhat it can do for your
(15:49):
business.
Gerard Dombroski (15:50):
But it'll be interesting to get your.
What can it do for yourbusiness?
Sam Brown (15:53):
Well, I was about to say I was just interested to get
your guys' take on that.
I mean, I've mentioned the factalready that we couldn't have
spent the money that we have onentering the awards and getting
that recognition so far on anysort of promotion.
You know, we we're havingpeople contact us for
publication.
A lot of people have said likecongratulations, they've seen it
on the nzia website, all thissort of stuff, so you're able to
(16:16):
reach different people throughdifferent channels and it's just
helping us grow, I guess, ourbreadth, our reach to, to
potential clients, and also justbuild recognition in the field.
And I think that's something Iwant to get into, maybe a little
bit later, about how awards fanegos.
But I'd just be interested tosee get your guys' take.
(16:39):
I mean, gerard, you've beenthere with an award-winning
project before.
Ben, you've been in and aroundaward-winning firms.
Yeah, the Warren Distributor.
Your first house?
Yeah, exactly, that's funny,though my one was yours as well.
Ben Sutherland (16:53):
I was thinking before.
I was like oh man, I don't evenknow who paid for that, yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (16:59):
You need to submit your house, Ben.
Ben Sutherland (17:02):
Yeah well, I don't well I.
Therein lies anotherconversation yeah, I'm too
scared though, because I don'twant to be judged by other
architects, and that's I'm beingreal there so you know, just so
I get to feel like I've wonyour award as well just because
you guys built it together I'vebeen on the construction side
(17:25):
quite a few times actually, butyou know, makers have built some
awesome stuff for some awesomearchitects, including themselves
and I think here's aninteresting different experience
yeah, I think there's aninteresting chat on like
architects getting credit andthen builders getting credit,
because oh, 100.
Sam Brown (17:44):
Well, I mean, like, I guess builders have their own
awards.
Ben Sutherland (17:47):
Do they?
Gerard Dombroski (17:49):
You know they have master build and things
like that.
It's different.
But, like at the NCAA awards.
They should be like givingprops to builders and stuff.
Sam Brown (17:59):
Oh 100%.
But, I think it's your duty asthe architect to give those
props.
You know you can't claim creditfor the success of a project
solely.
I think that's a bit off.
You know, for us, even like thetower that's just been
shortlisted absolutely no way wewould have been able to achieve
that without you know thefabrication team.
(18:20):
They did an amazing job and,like projects that have worked
on in the past you know thathave won awards te, aoha and the
marion as well like there's noway those projects would have
been executed to the level thatthey were and the success that
they are without like a goodconsultant and build team.
Gerard Dombroski (18:38):
so it's definitely I think, like the
awards, the critique of theawards in particular is that
it's like architects are theonly ones that care about it.
You know like are we gettingprops between each other?
Or like you're saying, you'regetting some more magazines
coming out there.
So are the awards reached thepublic, do you think?
Sam Brown (19:04):
Well, that was going to be one of my conversation
points, and I think that that isa good point, gerard is is do
the architecture awards pusharchitecture more into the
public eye?
And I think they do.
I mean, I don't think they getthe coverage that they probably
should.
I mean, architecture issomething that impacts people
(19:25):
every single day.
Regardless of who you are,where you come from, what you do
, you're impacted byarchitecture.
Good, bad, ugly, whatever and Ithink that there should be more
of a um, a media push in newzealand for recognition around
the awards.
I I know stuff always do like aquick article on who the
(19:47):
winners are after after theawards nights.
But I'm talking like you know,bullet points of these are the
winners, blah, blah, blah, andthat's a kind of thing, Whereas
I think that should probablyshould get more coverage,
particularly when you're lookingat these award categories like
multi-residential housing, urbandesign, development, commercial
.
These are projects that areimpacting huge amounts of people
(20:08):
and it would be lovely for themto sort of get that recognition
and understand architecture andits impact a little bit more.
Gerard Dombroski (20:14):
Yeah, I just think the point of the NZIA is
to promote architecture in NewZealand and support architects,
I guess.
And I just think it could go alittle bit further to like
bringing this to more of apublic thing.
Yeah, we go back to thatmarketing chat of HairMag doing
(20:35):
little open homes and stuff likeopening things up and engaging
with the public a little bitmore, I think would give more
meaning to the public to theseawards, because I love awards.
Awards are cool, but I think,beyond a mechanism to identify
good architecture, it's verycommonly seen as like a little
(20:56):
circle put on the back.
Sam Brown (20:58):
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, I agree it would benefiteveryone.
It's validation from your peers, but it would be interesting to
well.
Ben Sutherland (21:09):
it'd be interesting to get your guys
take and listeners as well it'salso validation for potential
you know client, future clientsas well, though oh yeah, that's
what I'm saying.
Gerard Dombroski (21:19):
It's like how do you?
It's a huge engage that withthe public more so then public
can actually look through thisstuff and go, oh, yeah, yeah.
But what if?
Ben Sutherland (21:28):
the winning designs had to like have.
When you sign up, you know thatthe winning designs have to
have some sort of like open day.
Gerard Dombroski (21:36):
Yeah, even if it was just for like.
Ben Sutherland (21:37):
NZIA members like how good would it be just
to be able to have a look aroundsome of these places.
Sam Brown (21:43):
Or a public day, you know, and they should definitely
serve tea and scones and thatsort of thing as well.
Gerard Dombroski (21:49):
Yeah, get the scones out, mate.
Sam Brown (21:51):
Everyone loves scones .
Gerard Dombroski (21:53):
An awesome example of this for me is the
Reba Awards, where they get oldKiwi boy, kevin MacLeod, and
they do like a TV series.
It's like five or six episodes.
Sam Brown (22:03):
Yeah, I've seen that.
I really like that as well.
Gerard Dombroski (22:07):
I think that's like an awesome way to engage
with the public.
Sam Brown (22:10):
We've got a.
Gerard Dombroski (22:10):
Grand Designs guy, why can't?
Sam Brown (22:12):
the NZIA.
Should we hit up Chris Muller?
Ben Sutherland (22:16):
Make a little.
Gerard Dombroski (22:16):
TV series.
Maybe we do it grassroots.
We'll just go out there withour iPhones, we can do that.
Sam Brown (22:24):
Guerrilla marketing for awards.
What are you guys?
Doing today what are you guysthoughts on?
You know if we're talking aboutpublic involvement or public
engagement.
What are you guys thoughts onpublic voting and or peer voting
?
Ben Sutherland (22:40):
I mean like, even if it was just its own
little category People's.
Gerard Dombroski (22:43):
Choice Award, people's Choice.
Ben Sutherland (22:44):
Award.
Sam Brown (22:47):
That's a great idea.
Let the judges shortlist theirprojects?
Yeah, absolutely.
But then put the shortlistedprojects out to the public and
go boom.
Ben Sutherland (22:57):
vote for your favourite People's Choice Award
would be fantastic.
The open days are so people canactually go around and have a
look.
Sam Brown (23:04):
So, nzia, if you're listening, take note.
Gerard Dombroski (23:07):
We've got all the ideas.
Come to us anytime.
Sam Brown (23:12):
I think that would be cool, though I mean obviously
you potentially run the risk ofpeople just hardcore campaigning
for their project.
Gerard Dombroski (23:22):
I think democratization of awards is
good.
Yeah, totally.
People's Choice Award isawesome.
Yeah, get it done, mate.
Sam Brown (23:31):
Okay.
Gerard Dombroski (23:32):
Start one of your little Instagram polls.
Ben Sutherland (23:35):
Hey, that's not a bad idea.
We could do that.
We could start an.
Gerard Dombroski (23:39):
Instagram profile and then whatever like
you just do in the profile, likeevery project, and then
whichever one gets the mostlikes is.
Sam Brown (23:48):
Is our unofficial People's Choice Award Unofficial
, official.
Yeah, unofficial officialPeople's Choice Award.
I like that a lot yeah,definitely.
Ben Sutherland (23:58):
Maybe we can start making up some of our own
categories as well.
There's definitely somecategories missing.
I don't know.
Have you guys thought aboutlike any other categories that
we could have, like most wow,integrated design, I don't know.
Gerard Dombroski (24:13):
Like crafty details, I think what I think
environmentally friendly biggestcantilever I like that one.
(24:40):
For a while the awards all werejust who's got the most seat of
slats yeah, yeah, they um Imean, but that this is a good
point.
Sam Brown (24:48):
I know we're talking.
We're talking about the nziaawards, right, but there are
other awards out there you know,and they do celebrate other
aspects of not just architecturebut design.
You know, there's the best ones, there's best ones, there's
Home of the Year, which is veryhouse-centric and quite often
Home of the Year's.
Don't win NZIA Awards or viceversa.
Is there any others out there?
Ben Sutherland (25:09):
Those sort of things come to mind.
Greensill must have theirawards, or something
sustainability ones.
Sam Brown (25:16):
Yeah, I don't know if they have anything NZGBC
doesn't have anything inparticular, but that's another
thing they probably should GreenBuilding of the Year.
Ben Sutherland (25:24):
Absolutely.
That's crazy that they don't.
I looked at the NZIA websiteand I saw these are a whole
bunch of other awards that theydo as well, just like various
practitioner awards and thenthere's even one.
There's even the john johnsutherland uh practice award,
which I I like because mygranddad's called john
sutherland oh there you go.
Sam Brown (25:44):
That's nice different .
Ben Sutherland (25:45):
You win that one day maybe I'll win that one one
day there's also I do like the.
I think a practice award'squite cool though but well, I
guess there's that right.
Sam Brown (25:55):
So we're talking about project-based awards, but
then there's alsoarchitect-based awards, so
there's every year we have thegold medal.
We have the gold medal award inNew Zealand.
Internationally, they have thePritzker Prize, which is the
equivalent of the Pulitzer forliterature, but the Pritzker is
the architectural one.
This year, raiken Yamamoto,japanese architect, one who said
(26:17):
that he does not believe he's agood designer and never has
been, so I was surprised to haveone.
I think he's being incrediblyhumble.
But you know, there are there'sthese other avenues for
recognition beyond what projectsyou do, but like who you are as
a practice and or who you areas an practice and or who you
are as an architect, and I thinkit's really cool to have those
(26:37):
other avenues as well.
And interestingly, gerard, Iknow you've got your own opinion
on this, but the winner of thegold medal, nzia gold medal
award this year, dr deirdrebrown.
I think it's the first timethat I've ever selected an
academic in that position.
I think that what's reallyinteresting about that?
I saw this note at the end ofthe press release about her
(26:57):
winning.
You know nzia, basically sayingthat it's the first time that
they have selected somebody notonly for her cultural impact,
but also somebody thatencompasses everything that
architecture is, and I thinkthat's really interesting
because so often we think of itas purely being the built form,
but it's so much more than that.
And you know she won because ofher impact culturally,
(27:19):
particularly on maoriarchitecture, but also her
impact on students in theteaching curriculum and
architecture and the impact thatshe's had through that, which I
think is really really cool.
Ben Sutherland (27:28):
So yeah, why?
What's your opinion, gerard?
Gerard Dombroski (27:31):
oh it's.
It just seems the first personto win that's not an architect
or hasn't done a building.
I might be wrong.
Ben Sutherland (27:38):
I tried really hard to find a building.
Does that insult yourarchitecture?
Gerard Dombroski (27:42):
architecture I just think there's like a lot
of really good architects.
They're like the award is forlike a body of work, like a.
It's kind of like a lifetimeaward, I guess.
And yes, she's contributed tolike the body, the wider body of
architecture, but perhaps likea different award would be more
(28:04):
appropriate yeah, interestinglike.
Melling Morse what they've like.
Yes, gerald's died, but theirbody of work was amazing and
they got lots of people Nicolaand Lance Herbst putting out
some absolute bangers afterbangers for years.
Sam Brown (28:19):
It's not to say that they're not in line to win again
in the future.
You know this is an annualaward.
Gerard Dombroski (28:27):
So it's an honourable thing.
It's for buildings, so like thehistory of the award is that it
used to be for our building.
They changed it in 90 I heardthe page on something but not
that long ago to be fair andthey changed it to about a body
(28:48):
of work right.
Sam Brown (28:49):
I think that's more important.
To be honest, I mean, you canyou can nail it with one
building and potentially hangyour hat on that for your whole
career.
But I think if you've trulysucceeded in architecture,
you've got a lifetime's body ofwork behind you that's impacted
society or individualscontinuously for decades.
You know what I mean.
Gerard Dombroski (29:09):
I think that's probably what our ultimate
objective is working in thisprofession For the end of the
day.
I in this profession.
Other awards to people like youcan't enter unless you're a
registered NZIA member.
Sam Brown (29:22):
That's true.
I mean, I think what would beinteresting and they have this
with is it Best Awards.
They have the Best EmergingDesigner.
It'd be interesting for NZIA torun sort of an award in that
ilk or for there to be anarchitectural award in that elk
of, like, best emerging practiceor best emerging architect.
I think that would be quiteinteresting because I did notice
(29:44):
this year in particular,there's a lot of new or young,
really interesting practicesthat have entered awards, maybe
not necessarily for the firsttime, but definitely getting
their dues paid and no, as atglazima from auckland, they've
got five short lists orsomething and that stuff's
amazing.
It's really, really cool.
They're a young firm.
There's a couple of other, yeahthat's the one, thank you yeah,
(30:09):
yeah, that's what I'm thinkingof.
You know these.
It'd be cool to kind of thesepeople to get their recognition
as well, because I don't knowabout you guys, but we're all in
our 30s.
It seems to me that you don'treally get the recognition, uh,
in architecture until you may be, uh, at the twilight end of
(30:29):
your career, unless you'resomeone like biaga angles, who
has sort of been put on thepedestal from a young age.
But everybody else you know,you're sort of looking at 50, 60
years old until you get theprops.
Gerard Dombroski (30:41):
That's what's great about architecture, though
I think he's like done somepretty epic work.
Sam Brown (30:47):
Oh, absolutely, he started from winning a
competition.
Ben Sutherland (30:50):
So.
Sam Brown (30:51):
I'm not saying it's unjustified.
Gerard Dombroski (31:01):
I'm just saying, you know, know, there's
not that many young architectsthat I think.
Actually something, somethingabout big like appeals to like a
wider audience, is that some ofthose architecture concepts are
like pretty comprehensible,like well presented in those,
you know, those classic bigdiagrams how many followers do
you think we need to get beforewe can get Bjarke and?
Sam Brown (31:16):
Gulls on the show.
I'd say we need quite a fewmore.
Ben Sutherland (31:19):
Maybe that could be our goal, maybe three more?
Sam Brown (31:22):
Or just meet them at the right place at the right
time and, like, corner them witha microphone.
Gerard Dombroski (31:28):
He was saying we have some followers.
We have some followers onSpotify.
Yeah, we might have some.
I know three followers.
We have some followers onSpotify.
Somebody listens to these rants.
Ben Sutherland (31:35):
I know three followers that we definitely
have and you know that'sinternational in.
Gerard Dombroski (31:44):
Oh, is that because Nina's in Italy?
Hi Nina, Thanks for listening.
Sam Brown (31:49):
Okay, so this is good .
This is a good sort of segueinto another thing I wanted to
talk about.
So we just talked about thenumber of followers we have.
Obviously that's like a littleself-satisfaction thing because
ultimately we do want thispodcast to be a success.
But like, doesn't matter,probably not.
But here's my question is doyou think that the awards are
(32:10):
important for our validation asarchitects and, like you know
what, as a personally, for yourego, for your success of your
business?
For, I guess, your level ofvalidation like okay, I've been
an architect registered, howevermany years, I've done a bunch
of buildings, but does anybodyactually like them, kind of
(32:31):
thing do you think that theawards or not necessarily nzia
ones, but ones in general gosome sort of way in?
Gerard Dombroski (32:39):
uh confidence in yourself.
Well, you hope that, like,awards are uh the mechanism to
like identify good architecture.
So it's like it's fact checking, like am I doing good
architecture?
I'm trying to do goodarchitecture and then hopefully
somebody out there is validatingthat and coming up with a list
of buildings that they think aregood so you definitely think
(33:02):
that it is sean godsell's ranton that australian marketing
podcast absolutely amazingepisode.
Love sean godsell.
But he talks about like work.
Getting in particular bookslike is is important because
there's like educated peoplethat are making like intentional
(33:22):
decisions on what they deemgood architecture to put in
their publications.
So yeah, I think there's amechanism to identify that and
then if somebody else then saysyou are doing a good job, that's
enormously rewarding.
Sam Brown (33:37):
It's epic it's kind of that industry-wide pat on the
back a little bit.
Ben Sutherland (33:41):
Eh, it's quite nice well, I guess it's also
just like a career progression,as in like you feel like you're
evolving in some way in theright direction yeah that's got
to feel good, like if thispodcast ever got a what are they
called webby award or somethinglike that.
I mean I would be absolutelymind-blowing but.
(34:03):
I would be feeling pretty damngood about myself.
I can tell you that you go ben.
Sam Brown (34:08):
Would you rather a webby or whatever they're called
, or an nzia award right now?
Gerard Dombroski (34:13):
obviously strive, strive to achieve both
aim high something that I founda really nice pat on the back is
my little um carmandal hut gotlast year nominated for world
building of the Year on ArcDaily.
(34:34):
Yeah, that's your little Ibuilt for free, and we probably
spent three grand at ITMI.
Yeah, I thought that was.
They work on a nomination basis, so maybe my mum went on there
and nominated me.
Very nice.
Sam Brown (34:50):
but but that's great.
Gerard Dombroski (34:52):
That was epic.
When I got that email I waslike holy fuck, yeah, I mean
that's that, that, that was epic.
Sam Brown (34:55):
When I got that email I was like holy fuck.
Yeah, I mean, that's a greatpoint, gerard, that is, that's
incredible that was like yeah,world recognition, right, like
that's huge and that's.
You know, it's cool to do thenzi awards, but making that it's
incredible.
Did anything come of it?
Gerard Dombroski (35:09):
uh, no like.
What I was up against was likeishigami's restaurant house, the
one sunk underground.
Yeah, Dug holes filled it withconcrete dug out the dirt
Slightly different budgetAmazing.
Well, conceptually, thatproject is the epitome of
identifying good architecture.
Yeah, that is every essence ofthe word architecture.
Sam Brown (35:33):
The beautiful thing about that, though, the word
architecture, and the beautifulthing about that, though, and
you know, is this well, it'sjust.
It's just amazing things likethe scope architecture has right
, like you talk about your tinylittle piccolo thing made with
recycled materials in the bushand, you know, in rural new
zealand versus you know thishuge budget, massive concept
(35:55):
kind of you know reallyincredible pieces of
architecture, but that's,they're put side by side and you
know that's awesome, massivevalidation to you as a designer,
like clearly I've seen yourproject and I think it's
incredible.
You know, but you know merit toyou as a designer in a big way.
Clearly you've got what ittakes to produce something
that's pretty sensational for it.
(36:15):
You clearly you've got what ittakes to produce something
that's pretty sensational, forit to reach those levels.
I think that's cool oh, cheersman.
Yeah, that was a fun, very funmonth yeah, I mean what's
interesting from that, though I,you know, obviously I asked
didn't come from it and I guessmaybe the question and word it
quite right in terms of winning,but like beyond that, yeah,
(36:36):
well, that's that's the funnything, right like you can sort
of get this recognition, and Iguess this comes back to, uh,
the media side of things outsideof architecture, potentially
even just your peer group withinnew Zealand.
Did anybody take note?
Like that's the tough thing, eh.
Gerard Dombroski (36:57):
Well, I think Simon from here jumped on real
quick.
Sure, yeah, so I thought thatwas the best validation.
Sam Brown (37:06):
But for a New Zealand designer to have that level of
international recognition, thatshould be national news, in my
opinion.
Ben Sutherland (37:13):
I think it's up to yourselves to kind of push,
push your own projects.
Unfortunately, a little bit.
It's the same with anyone whowins in any type of award.
They've kind of got a build onthe back of that award and try
and make some sort of awarenessout of it?
Gerard Dombroski (37:30):
I'm not sure yeah, I find it really hard to
go from there forward.
It's kind of not my personalityto to put your work out there
coming up and going.
Look at me, look at me so yeah,keep on going keep on designing
.
Ben Sutherland (37:44):
They're yelling some more.
The proof will come out in thephone again.
Gerard Dombroski (37:47):
Yeah, if we go long enough maybe, if you know
it doesn't fall down, maybe oneday we'll get an enduring award
I should probably enter it intothe awards.
Sam Brown (37:55):
You should probably do that.
Yeah, exactly.
Gerard Dombroski (37:58):
Here's the other issue is there's people
making banger buildings thatwe're just not entering?
Sam Brown (38:03):
Well, that's the thing, and I guess I've worked
for a firm in the past whichdidn't necessarily discredit the
awards, but they didn't.
They'd been part of that awardprocess before in the past.
They'd been on the juries andeverything and they'd sort of
just grown maybe a little bitfatigued by the process, I think
.
And it definitely took usyounger people in that firm at
(38:26):
the time to kind of pushprojects forward for awards.
The directors didn't see thatthey needed it to grow the
business and they didn't feellike they needed that validation
for themselves because they'dhad it in the past, kind of
thing.
But I definitely think forgraduates coming through,
younger architects working inbigger firms, I think it's
really important for them topush their work forward.
(38:46):
Gerard, looking at you, becauseI do think that it's.
It's a way for you as a youngdesigner to get your name out
there.
You know, I think we're sooften against up against big,
well-established firms and orindividuals in the in the field
and it's good for us to sort ofbe there challenging them and
challenging their ideas as well.
Ben Sutherland (39:08):
Yeah, exactly, and we are our own brand at the
end of the day.
Sam Brown (39:12):
I've talked about that before.
Gerard Dombroski (39:14):
Things like Instagram are are a good
equalizer democratizing, butmaybe, like maybe, there's a
chat there of that instagram'stoo visual heavy and it's just
not reaching the right peopleyeah, have you guys seen um
chris tate's house in piha, thislittle black box up on a little
(39:35):
concrete v?
Absolute mad dog.
And you know he's obviously notinto it, because I don't see
that in the list.
Ben Sutherland (39:44):
Some.
Some of them take a while tocome through, though hey,
there's some.
There's some ones, I noticed,that were built years ago, that
have.
So there's a five year.
Sam Brown (39:53):
You have to enter it within five years of completion
but I do well, I do know a lotof people do wait and they wait
because they want the project tobe just like landscaping to be
done, it to be bedded in, it tobe looking like what their final
vision is.
Gerard Dombroski (40:07):
Planting's huge man.
I had a rant the other day to aguy at uni who's in the
landscape department and I wassaying that like architects
should do, like architecturestudent should do a landscape
paper, be forced to do alandscape paper because like it
is the ultimate, likeintegration into site.
Oh incredibly so, actuallyknowing how to prepare soil or
(40:33):
like.
So, contractors, don't justgravel the entire site and then
you're left with well what.
Sam Brown (40:40):
What I find really interesting is exactly well,
exactly on that point you'reright.
I mean, we're super fortunatewith the karaka tower and that
we helicoptered it into thisincredibly well-established bush
area, you know.
So we had to trim a few treesto obviously drop the modules
into place, but once thebuilding was in place, it had
(41:02):
kind of been like it had beenthere forever.
All the trees around it areestablished, all the gardens are
established, and so itimmediately bedded in.
It looked great.
Recently just finished a projectdown in lake hawera in central
otago and the house looksamazing, but it's sitting in
this barren wasteland you knowand you're sort of like well,
(41:25):
yeah, you're sort of like shit,man, this isn't going to
actually look finished for years, and I guess that is why people
do wait to put their projectsin, because they do want it to
look better than they want it tolook like the finished product,
not just a finished building,you know, because the
architecture is so much beyondjust that physical form mom's
(41:46):
projects, having some pauseswhile we try redivert some
hidden cables, which has beenplanting up a storm in the in
the courtyard.
Gerard Dombroski (41:56):
the one we're doing for mom is just like a
courtyard house a big mound andplants.
But it's like I'm super stokedon it at the moment, getting the
plants in there and by the timewe're finished it's going to be
like a fully ingrained gardenimmediately.
Sam Brown (42:11):
Yeah, that's pretty cool, that's amazing.
Gerard Dombroski (42:13):
Which is pretty cool Beyond awards, sorry
bro, karen, oh, just that onewas very reliant on landscape to
be successful.
Sam Brown (42:23):
Yeah, beyond, you know, awards for physical, built
, real projects.
I mean, have you guys partakenin any competitions?
I mean that's another avenuefor validation, potentially Not
necessarily for your completedwork, but your design style or
your aesthetic in a way.
I mean, have you?
Gerard Dombroski (42:43):
used to race in the past.
Ben Sutherland (42:45):
Well, it is a competition yeah, I used to do
quite a few when I was atuniversity with Chris Chris
Moller.
Yeah, hang out with him quite abit and it was awesome because
it's exactly as you say.
You really got to learn hisstyle of designing and it's
(43:06):
similar every single time,similar process, and how he goes
about doing things is reallylike a old school.
Everything is kind of reallyhand drawn and hand developed.
So awesome, awesome toexperience and did a number of
projects with him, which wascool as well because he he
doesn't really use any, uh,digital software.
(43:27):
So if you can use revit oranything like that, uh, it was
extremely helpful.
So, um, yeah, did quite a fewthere, international ones as
well uh, we well, it'sinteresting.
Sam Brown (43:38):
Really well, we developed some were these idea
projects or project, uh sorryidea competitions or project
competitions, projectcompetitions, yeah, but yeah out
there spots as well so, ben, isthat to win projects rather
than just to come up with theconcept, right cool?
Gerard Dombroski (43:59):
no, yeah, that's the sort of competition
I'm interested in like.
I did one um for this chapel inrwanda and I was like, oh man,
that's yeah, that would be anepic project.
So I did this thing and Irealized oh, it's actually just
an idea.
Sam Brown (44:11):
Competition yeah, but even even in saying that though
, gerard, what that lets you dois it lets you design with
freedom right, you know you'rekind of unconstrained and it
lets you probably express yourtrue design voice, because
you're given a brief but you'renot sort of in that meeting with
the clients and feeling likeconstricted by what they want to
do, or you know budget's notreally talked about in ideas
(44:35):
competitions.
Gerard Dombroski (44:38):
I don't particularly agree with that.
I think there's design freedomeverywhere.
I think it's parameters are ourfreedom in essence.
Ben Sutherland (44:46):
Nowadays, our idea, uh, competition is trying
to get a job off gets orsomething like that not so long
ago and he turned up, he did thesite visit and how many people
were on site, gerard oh, I waslike 36 or something.
Gerard Dombroski (45:06):
It was basically just a massive
architecture, everyone fromeverywhere I was like is this
like an nzia event or?
Sam Brown (45:15):
something I feel like those is this, the design
series, is somebody I feel likethose it's interesting, those
gets things as well, because youturn up to them and you see
who's there and you're like, ohwell, they've clearly, they
clearly know who they're goingto use already and they're just
going through the processes ohyeah, but hey, you got to, you
got to talk to some interestingpeople.
Ben Sutherland (45:36):
Didn, didn't you , Gerard?
Yeah?
Gerard Dombroski (45:38):
some good yarns.
Love a good yarn.
Sam Brown (45:43):
One thing that we haven't really talked about and
there's two things I just wantto kind of tap off before you
know, in the last sort of stagesof this episode.
But do you guys reckon that theawards are more objective or
subjective, depending on who thejudges are year to year, and
(46:04):
that's a two-part question.
And within that, do you reckonthere's a general taste of
projects that have been selected, particularly this year, given
the ones that we're discussing,or do you think that the breadth
is wide and that the sort ofchosen projects that don't
necessarily fit one ilk, and isthere an evolving style from
(46:25):
years before?
Gerard Dombroski (46:26):
well, I think lots of colloquial pub chat
you'd hear back in the day isthat if you put cedar slats
you're getting awarded, and I'mthinking that's a distinct lack
of cedar slats.
So I think that's a goodevolution.
Like they're just scrollingthrough, like there seems to be
(46:46):
quite a diverse like I thoughtthat as well.
Sam Brown (46:49):
I thought for maybe for the first time and maybe
because I'm, you know, involvedin this I have been in the past,
but I think maybe a little bitmore so, given this is my first
time being shortlisted been inthe past, but I think maybe a
little bit more so, given thisis my first time being
shortlisted for my own practice.
But I thought that the range ofprojects that have been
shortlisted is really diverseand you know, that sort of was
(47:09):
mirrored in the judging panelthat I met.
You know they all came fromvery different backgrounds and
approached the project and Iassume their judging criteria in
very different ways as well,from very different backgrounds
and approached the project and Iassume they're judging criteria
in very different ways as wellasked very different questions,
some of them very practical,some of them a bit more about
the design process, some of themwere sort of talking about the
materiality and the ephemeral,and I thought that was a really
(47:30):
good balance and I think thatthat has been mirrored in the
projects that have been selected.
I don't know.
Ben Sutherland (47:37):
No, I agree.
I think there's a high qualityof architecture in this country
and they should definitely bepromoted a lot more.
I had a good look through and Ididn't see anything that I
didn't think deserved to bethere for sure.
Sam Brown (47:54):
And I think they're definitely discerning.
I think Wellington has 36 shortit, 36 shortlisted projects Off
the top of my head, butsomething like 68 entries, so
only half got through.
I know Auckland was less thanhalf the entries were awarded.
I do know that for likeSouthern and Western, everyone
(48:14):
that entered won, but you knowthey only had like 17 entries or
something.
So I think it's important forthem to you know celebrate
everybody in those areas,because the architecture quality
is still really high.
Ben Sutherland (48:27):
Absolutely.
Gerard Dombroski (48:28):
Yeah, I think like going back to the sort of
bringing it back to the public,I think would be like an awesome
move forward if NZA did end uplike adopting, like a little
Kevin MacLeod style, a couple ofepisodes on TV or something.
Ben Sutherland (48:45):
TV and scones.
That would be awesome.
Gerard Dombroski (48:47):
Because I think there needs to be like to
go to a slightly deeper level onrepresentation of some of the
projects, because I guess you'reat slight risk of perpetuating
this idea that architects areacidic vanity loving.
You know, we're there for theimage well, I don't know about
that actually for the public andit's to showcase good examples.
(49:12):
Sorry, continue yeah, sorry,continue.
Yeah, let me talk.
I think from the public I oftenhear a sentiment that, oh,
architects just want a freebuilding or this or that.
But we know that there's moredepth there and we want to make
spaces that enrich people'slives lower carbon, all these
(49:35):
things and I think having amechanism in the awards that
goes a little bit into moredepth on like the winning
projects, for example, to reallylike draw that link to the
general public, like the youknow, moms and dads who don't
care about architectural awardsyep, because like we're talking
(49:56):
the other day about engagingwith people that don't know they
want an architect, which is therest of the world.
So I think, like how we engagewith them is pretty important
and we could all benefit from.
Sam Brown (50:07):
Well, interestingly, Gerard, when you do enter and I
think it could be done reallyeasily what you're talking about
, yeah, it's not hard.
No, because when you do enter to, you have to fill out quite a
comprehensive outline of yourproject.
You need to talk about what yourbrief was, your site and
context, materiality, impact onthe community, impact on the
environment, sustainability, andyou have to also mention like
(50:31):
the cost and the scale and allthis sort of stuff.
So you have to give quite aquite comprehensive project
breakdown which is given to thejudges along with your pretty
pictures.
And I think if thatcomprehensive breakdown which
we're required to put in in thejudges read that's never then
shot back up to the generalpublic and I think it absolutely
(50:52):
should be like why shouldn'tyou be able to click into a
shortlisted project and see thatbreakdown?
So if you know, say, jeff andjeff and belinda from down the
road were like I really lovethat house, I want to know more
about it.
They can click in and find outmore.
And then it's more than themjust looking at a pretty picture
and being like I really likethat house and they're like I
really like that house and theway the architect's gone about
(51:13):
it, and I think that would helpus in terms of our engagement
with the public from a potentialclient point of view yeah yeah,
absolutely.
Ben Sutherland (51:25):
Oh well, should we.
Um it's finished.
Should we wrap it up?
Sam Brown (51:30):
yeah, maybe, maybe, but um, yeah, I mean good chat.
I think I've talked about thisall day.
Well, yeah, exactly, I mean,and there's that and there's
stuff that we haven't covered aswell.
I think one thing that we'revery architecture focused today,
and I obviously understandably,given that we're all in that
field.
But I think the sameconversation could definitely be
had for any creative field, beit literature, art, design.
(51:52):
Gerard, you know like it'll beinteresting one day, yeah, well,
yeah, we probably don't havethe time right now, but get your
take on.
You know the role of awards infurniture and things like that
as well, because that'sdefinitely an industry where
awards are very important, I'dsay, and quite prevalent.
Gerard Dombroski (52:11):
Here's a quick funny story.
A while ago, I submitted fourprojects to the Best Awards.
This was like 2018 or somethinglike back in the day.
Um, my giant blue couch, yeah,the couch, yep, that's like
these projects that were epic,epic projects and never got
anywhere.
So like 1200 bucks down thedrain right, that was humble pie
(52:34):
but I mean, you tackled oneavenue right.
There are other avenues maybe,but you can't find all your
validation in an award.
Like, we're all artists in ourown sort of realm and what we're
working towards sometimes willbe recognized by other people
and sometimes not.
So I think that's.
I think if awards swayed youtoo much, if they, like, gave
(52:59):
you a reason to live or not tolive, if that was your sole
focus.
Sam Brown (53:02):
You should probably be rethinking things be overly
concerned with awards.
Gerard Dombroski (53:08):
I think we're more just trying to work, work
on our craft and this littleideas in our own head that I
find potentially more important.
Sam Brown (53:17):
Yeah, it's the cherry on the cake, right, but you
still want to meet them.
Gerard Dombroski (53:20):
Yeah, but I love the award and they're
awesome.
It's good to validate and Ilove to share the stoke, so if
somebody's doing awesome work, Ireally hope they're getting
high fives.
Sam Brown (53:31):
Well, that's actually a good place to leave things.
I think Gerard is share thestoke.
I mean everybody this yearthat's been shortlisted.
If you win or don't, yeah, hugecongratulations and good luck.
Well-deserved good luck, butalso if you win or don't win.
You know credit.
You've made it this far atleast.
And for those that even enteredand weren't shortlisted, don't
(53:51):
be, you know, don't bedisheartened.
Your projects still, stillincredible projects.
If they weren't, you wouldn'thave thought about entering.
So take heart from that andjust enter next year.
Ben Sutherland (54:04):
Absolutely yeah.
I mean, if you've got a projectthat you're even thinking about
entering or thought aboutentering, then kudos to you.
Sam Brown (54:13):
Yeah, but yeah, good luck to everybody and I guess we
will probably return sometimein the next couple of months
with the winners.
Yeah, thanks very much andthat's all from me.
Gerard, do you want?
To thank, mr Stantz.
Gerard Dombroski (54:29):
Cheers, guys, and we will talk to you in two
weeks.
Thanks again to Jacob Marshallfor the sound and Colin Dolman
for the visual art.
See you, guys, next time.
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