October 30, 2024 • 56 mins
What happens when you build an entire house from just one material? We explore the revolutionary "everything house" concept, inspired by architectural visionaries like Robert Bruno, Tadao Ando, and Tom Kundig. This episode takes you on an imaginative journey through the possibilities and challenges of constructing homes from singular materials like wood and concrete. We question the marriage of aesthetics and functionality in architecture and reflect on the profound impact such designs have on our daily lives.
Be inspired by the unexpected as we humorously consider a house made entirely of plasterboard and marvel at Shigeru Ban's ingenious use of cardboard. Discover the magic that unfolds when architects push a design concept to its fullest, as seen in the ice hotel where every element is sculpted from ice. We delve into the importance of bold colour choices and materiality, highlighting the creative courage required to challenge conventional design norms and realise truly unique architectural masterpieces.
The debate surrounding architectural ornamentation resurfaces as we explore the tension between modernist minimalism and ornate classical styles. Are we missing something by shunning decorative elements in contemporary design? As we reflect on projects that successfully blend ornamentation with modern aesthetics, we invite listeners to reconsider the role of decorative features in enhancing a building's unity and rhythm. Join us in celebrating the artistry and innovation that can emerge when architects dare to push beyond traditional boundaries.
Chapters:
- 0:13 - Exploring the Everything House Concept
- 14:35 - The Impact of Architectural Design
- 18:18 - The Art of Process-Based Design
- 33:18 - Pushing Architectural Boundaries
- 46:19 - The Debate on Decorative Elements
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gerard Dombroski (00:13):
it's good listening into radio dombrowski
uh, cool, all right so what's onthe agenda today?
Ben Sutherland (00:22):
Should we crack into it?
What?
Sam Brown (00:23):
have you got for us?
Gerard Dombroski (00:24):
What yarns Are we spinning?
Sam Brown (00:27):
Well, before we get into the nitty-gritty, a bit of
a hiatus for the DPP.
A few life things have beengoing on Ben's shifted, shifted
islands no islands.
Up island To the big schmoke.
To the big schmoke, gerard'sbeen building cool shit.
(00:48):
I don't know if it's supposedto be on the D-low or not, and
I've had another kid, so we'vebeen a bit preoccupied.
But we're back better than everand with a bit of a new take.
We enjoyed our interview seriesbut trying to delve deeper into
some design concepts coming up,and the first one of the days,
something that I've beenthinking about, it's kind of
(01:10):
been on my mind for a while andit's a concept that I call the
everything house, sort offocusing on materiality, watch
out and it's a design idea whereeverything in the house is made
from one material.
Ben Sutherland (01:27):
So this let's take concrete spark.
Sam Brown (01:30):
What sparked that on for you, sam I think it's a use,
like us using sips a lot, andit's an incredible like it's a
very wooden interior when it'sexposed, yeah, but it's like
it's, it's a, it's a veneerultimately right like the actual
(01:50):
, like the inside of the wall isnot all wood and ice cream
sandwich you know this the slab.
If it's on a slab, you knowobviously that's not wood.
But so I was like what happensif everything is wood?
You know you're your framing,your lining, your insulation,
your furniture, your Everything,your plumbing, plumbing yeah,
(02:13):
why?
Ben Sutherland (02:13):
not you may as well exclude plumbing and
electrical.
I don't know how the electricalI mean electrical, probably not
.
Sam Brown (02:21):
I think there's some points you're going to have to
draw the line.
You're not getting a goodcurrent.
Gerard Dombroski (02:25):
Yeah, I don't know man.
Sam Brown (02:28):
I'm all for an extreme concept and forego the
realities but I, yeah, I I mean,well, that's the thing, right,
gerard?
Like you don't have to, itdoesn't necessarily even have to
be livable.
I mean, I I've jotted down acouple of examples for you guys
to check out.
I don't know if you had a lookat them at all.
Probably the most yeah, I wasgoing to say the most radical of
(02:49):
them is the Robert Bruno house.
I don't know if anyone's seenthat.
I'll put a link to it in theshow notes, but that is a proof
of concept.
Ben Sutherland (02:59):
One thing that blew my mind, actually when I
was doing some research on this,is the amount of quite well
renowned architects who haveactually attempted this I guess,
probably like when you areworking with material like
concrete, then it's just kind oflike makes sense to make it, oh
(03:21):
you know, fully, fully concreteconcrete roof, concrete
structure and yeah like today.
I was a great example, soconcrete is definitely the
obvious choice of material.
Also probably a lot easier toachieve in some of those foreign
countries.
As opposed to new zealand, Idon't know how it would work
(03:44):
trying to like meet the NewZealand building code.
Sam Brown (03:48):
Well, I think that's the thing right, like this idea
is not something that'snecessarily going to be even
functional, but I think it'sjust like it's a folly concept.
A pavilion, yeah, reallyexciting to explore, and that's
that Westerpunt by Studio Marta,really exciting to explore, and
that's that westerpunt bystudio mata.
You know, that's that sort ofhelix, um concrete, uh, what uh
(04:13):
like viewing platform is what itkind of is.
You know, that is that's thesort of idea that I'm getting to
the entire thing.
Gerard Dombroski (04:23):
Yeah, it is a epic object.
Sam Brown (04:27):
Yes, but that's quite cool because you know it's
concrete.
But it's so.
It's so dynamic and so fluidand it sort of really belies
that you know the, the nature orthe you know the physical
nature of concrete, because itlooks like water the gnarliness
of that is probably building itin the waves.
Gerard Dombroski (04:46):
Like it's, it's lapped by the waves yeah
which that must have somehorrendous foundations but
you're right.
Sam Brown (04:56):
Going back to the, you know, like today or ando
concepts and stuff, you knowthere's definitely architects
there that champion a materialyou know, and kundig's one who I
, you know.
That comes springs to mind maybenot necessarily, like you know,
giving himself over to onematerial in its entirety, but,
(05:18):
like his, the honesty of thematerials that he uses, like
everything is sort of warts andall it's raw.
It's you raw, it's sort of inits natural state, which I quite
like as well.
I feel like there's so muchgloss and ornamentation, almost
like the disguising of thereality of materials in the
stuff that we do, which I findkind of disappointing.
Gerard Dombroski (05:38):
Yeah Well, I think he's good at following his
aesthetic concept.
It's clearly industrial andpushes it all the way.
I think, like, for example,this Robert Bruno house big
steel sort of animalisticcreature thing from the outside
(05:59):
is epic but on the inside theykind of fall down.
Like the looks like laminateflooring in this super
industrial steel building.
You're so close.
Sam Brown (06:12):
Yeah, I kind of feel like You're not quite taking the
concept far enough.
Well, I almost think it's kindof posters death.
You know, the people that havebought it have tried to turn it
into something a bit real and Ithink you can stay there now.
Ben Sutherland (06:25):
Yeah, it's an Airbnb, I think, by the looks of
it.
Sam Brown (06:28):
Yeah, but it's kind of sad in a way because it's
going against what I think hisoriginal concept was, which was
for it to be completely steel.
Yeah, and I really like thestory in a way, the sustainable
nature of it and the fact thatall the steel he used was
salvaged and then he, overdecades, developed it
(06:52):
iteratively.
But he'd like chop bits out andthen reuse them somewhere else
and like be like I want to cut awindow here and then like weld
it onto somewhere else andthey'd be like oh, I don't like
that and you know, I kind oflike that ability to meld and
sort of like manipulate thematerial because it is all the
same.
You know you couldn't really dothat if there was, you know
(07:13):
there was a timber nature there.
Ben Sutherland (07:15):
If I was to I would definitely go with timber
as a material if I was toattempt this, I think just
because it comes in so many likesuch a variety of different
forms, so you can already havesome sort of timber cladding,
timber flooring, timberstructure.
Is it the potato?
Gerard Dombroski (07:34):
of building materials the potato of building
materials.
Sam Brown (07:37):
That's brilliant.
Probably is.
That's perfect.
You can what fries mash.
Ben Sutherland (07:46):
Yeah, exactly Chips, and it's so good, boiled,
baked and sustainable, I guessGoes in the ground Architecture
school does that like chaircardboard thing.
Gerard Dombroski (07:58):
They should do potatoes, potato architecture.
Sam Brown (08:03):
Yeah, timber's cool and I don't know if you guys
ever looked at and I think it'ssomething that's actually
probably been almost proven,particularly in the past.
You know, have you looked atthose Norwegians?
Is it stave or starve churches?
Gerard Dombroski (08:18):
They're the ones that are all black
generally.
Sam Brown (08:20):
Yeah, but they are like timber-fram timber framed
like timber, everything thetimber shingle.
I have a feeling they use likesawdust for insulation or
something crazy like that aswell.
The concept of that is prettycool.
Ben Sutherland (08:37):
Absolute fire death trap.
They look like witch houses.
Sam Brown (08:41):
Yeah, they do look like witch houses, but you know,
I little witch hats.
Gerard Dombroski (08:45):
Is the black stained or is it charred Because
?
You know, charring is a naturalfireproofing.
Sam Brown (08:51):
I think they're pretty old.
It's probably just like patina.
It might even be like you knowlichens.
Gerard Dombroski (08:56):
They just haven't washed it.
Sam Brown (08:58):
Yeah, that's what my outdoor furniture looks like.
Gerard Dombroski (09:09):
There's a good history of all timber buildings
around the world, like the oldjapanese temples and stuff yeah,
where they use like timbernails and yeah, yeah just that
sort of stuff.
Sam Brown (09:19):
I think that's, that's the.
Ben Sutherland (09:20):
That's sort of the level of detail that I'd
love to take this concept yeah,those all of the joints are kind
of like slotted perfectly intoposition and it's so satisfying
to watch.
Gerard Dombroski (09:33):
It's kind of funny how we have all these
initiatives to make buildingsreusable and design them so they
can come apart, and people havealready mastered that, mastered
it.
Ben Sutherland (09:45):
Yeah, it just takes a little bit longer yeah,
it's the labour aspect, really,isn't it?
Gerard Dombroski (09:53):
and the craftsmanship.
Sam Brown (09:54):
There's no way you're getting a chippy in New Zealand
to build in a Japanese manner.
Ben Sutherland (10:03):
I've spent a large period of my life watching
Japanese YouTube clips ontimber construction.
Nothing better than theirchisels and their tools are just
all so cool the handsaw andeverything it's like oh my god
do you reckon you could buildlike that?
(10:26):
a lot of it is like patience,and I guess you would probably
want to go and learn from one ofthose masters for a period of
time, because there's a lot toit, like the way that they do
their set outs and everything isjust.
It's just phenomenal really.
It's just completely differentand it's all hand-drawn and
hand-calculated and measured andcut.
(10:49):
It's craftsmanship really,isn't it?
Yeah, it's craftsmanship.
It's building a bit of joinery.
It's far more like joinery thanit is construction.
So you'd probably want a bit oftraining.
You'd attempt it and you'dprobably pull off something half
.
Okay, I find it interestingthat a bit of training, you'd
attempt it and you'd probablypull off something.
Gerard Dombroski (11:05):
I find it interesting that a lot of the
newer ones they still have thesame structure, um, but they're
all kind of hidden.
Ultimately, by the end of theproject you don't see any of
them.
Yeah, whereas it's kind ofinteresting to put so much time
in care.
Sam Brown (11:20):
They're still building, like actually you
don't see.
Gerard Dombroski (11:23):
Yeah, what's it?
Sam Brown (11:25):
are they still building like that?
Yeah, yeah, definitely shitcool.
Ben Sutherland (11:28):
Yeah, the ones that I like go on the youtube
rabbit holes.
It's like literally, like theycut the logs down, they select
some trees.
That's where they start.
They start by like cutting downthe trees and milling the
timber and storing it in theyard for a year, and it's pretty
insane.
Sam Brown (11:47):
I mean that's sustainable right.
That's the true description ofvernacular.
Gerard Dombroski (11:54):
Yeah, the use of the immediate their spec home
essentially is still like thebig 150 by 150 microframe timber
posts everywhere, everywhere,all slotting, but it's just like
cnc'd yeah, it's all done on agrid, but it's still still put
together the same way yeah whichis just epic that they hold on
(12:19):
to that rather than doing whatthe rest of us are doing.
Sam Brown (12:25):
rather than doing what the rest of us are doing,
try and marry up as many foreignmaterials as humanly possible.
I feel like that's the way webuild.
Ben Sutherland (12:33):
Yeah, it is, and I guess the whole point of it
is like, well, the whole pointof an every hat thing house
would be to expose like the rawstructure and you know, like it
tells the story about how it wasbuilt and how long it's been
there and the man hours uh ittook to kind of assemble where
(12:54):
the material.
You can even like kind ofunderstand a lot more about
where the materials come fromand and what it is.
And I think so, if you, ifyou're gonna, you know, I guess
that's what's amazing aboutthose houses is it really does
kind of uh, it's all prettyobvious when you walk in those
spaces that you understandexactly how it was built and
(13:16):
designed and everything.
That's a.
Sam Brown (13:19):
I think it's the honesty right, it's, it's the
honesty of the building, I feellike.
So much what's interesting.
I saw a comment about sort ofsomething about materiality and
and is it something that we asarchitects or designers really
consider?
And I think that that it is.
I mean, it's a you know, it's apretty common buzz term that we
(13:40):
use all the time, and I thinkwe really do think about
materiality when we're designingbut is it something that users
appreciate and interact on asame, on a similar level?
I don't think so.
You know, I don't think thatthey go and look at that
westerpunt, you know, look outand go, holy shit, this whole
(14:00):
thing's made out of concrete.
It's like cantilevering on this, like helix form.
How did they form this out ofconcrete?
Like they're not really lookingat it that way.
But back to your point being a,you know, if something's really
pushed, you know, like if theyare experiencing and everything
else, then they have no, but nochoice but to appreciate and
interact with it, and I thinkthat's quite a nice way of
(14:23):
getting users and the consumersof buildings to kind of
appreciate materiality a bitmore.
Ben Sutherland (14:31):
Yeah, so exposing the materials as
opposed to covering them up?
Gerard Dombroski (14:35):
Yeah, architecture is so often
peripheral, like by design issomething that's in the back of
your mind.
It has to be pretty gnarly tocome front of mind.
Sam Brown (14:49):
Yeah, it has to punch you in the face a little bit
for you to take note as like nota common, you know, not a
casual sort of appreciator.
I mean, I'd say that a lot oflisteners and us all as
architects, you know, Idistinctly remember when we were
at architecture school as well.
You know you walk around withyour head in the sky because
(15:10):
you're just looking up atbuildings all the time.
Most people don't do that, butyou know if something really is
quite sensational or spectacularor interesting, then it, you
know it draws in the generalpublic.
You know you're not going tohave somebody come into a spec
house in New Zealand and go ohwow, look at this beautiful use
of a plasterboard.
Gerard Dombroski (15:28):
That's crazy.
I've never seen it before.
Yeah, that beautiful jib board.
What a unique use of jib board.
Ben Sutherland (15:37):
Literally no one has ever seen that.
That's so funny.
Sam Brown (15:43):
Could you do a plasterboard house?
Gerard Dombroski (15:45):
Yeah, I guess, if you laminated enough
plasterboard together, it wouldbecome.
Ben Sutherland (15:48):
It would just melt in the rain, I mean hey, if
you can do a cardboardcathedral, you can do a
plasterboard house, surely?
Sam Brown (15:58):
Yeah, actually that's a really good proof.
That's a really good kind ofeverything.
Material is you know ShigeruBan's use of cardboard?
Gerard Dombroski (16:06):
Yeah, that's a guy who knows how to run a
concept.
Sam Brown (16:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (16:10):
Often running a concept.
He just scales up his modelsand you have to like pull
everything back to make sure youfollow that.
The issue is when you startcutting corners and letting
other materials come in.
Yeah, issue is when you startcutting corners and letting
other materials come in.
Yeah, so, like the, the icehotel is probably a really
blatant example of like asuccessful single material
(16:32):
project yep, because in that,all the beds, all the furniture,
everything's carved out of ice,correct?
yeah, yeah, cold slate butpeople, people go from lots of
places over the world to stay inone of those, don't they?
Ben Sutherland (16:47):
How long do they last?
I?
Gerard Dombroski (16:50):
don't know A couple of months, the heart of
winter.
Ben Sutherland (16:55):
What about a tree?
I guess there's a lot of treehut architecture on Airbnb and
that sort of thing.
Gerard Dombroski (17:03):
Yeah, people respond well to novelties.
I think, well, maybe we, justas humans, need novelty to more
novelty, architecture cutthrough.
Sam Brown (17:12):
I think it's because everything else is so benign,
right, yeah?
Gerard Dombroski (17:17):
and so few people are willing to follow a
concept to the degree that isrequired to make something
really impactful what we shouldbe doing is.
Ben Sutherland (17:28):
One way to design like this would be to
probably do what shakira barndoes and make a physical model
of your or whatever it iscathedral or house or whatever
and literally just scale it up.
Yeah, I'm using the samematerial and everything yeah,
shit.
Sam Brown (17:47):
Yeah, I mean, I used.
I used heaps of plaster when Iwas at uni for modeling.
Ben Sutherland (17:52):
I don't there you go, but that's your job
house yeah, well, that, exactlythat's the past.
Sam Brown (18:00):
I've already done it nice.
Gerard Dombroski (18:02):
yeah, exactly.
Well, it's a good way to likeuse the inherent qualities of a
material.
Like, if you're a ceramic house, like I don't know, you're
probably going to need somearchways and shit going on, yeah
, yeah.
Sam Brown (18:18):
Understanding the limitations of your medium.
You know that's quiteinteresting.
Like how does I was just goingto say, gerard like for you,
particularly with all your steelwork, like you'd have you'd
have a far better relationshipor understanding of that than we
probably do like, how does thatsort of transform into your,
into your art and your sculpturemaking and stuff?
Gerard Dombroski (18:39):
well, a lot of my stuff's designed around the
process of making it, so I don'thydroform things.
You set your parameters andthen you hydroform and you kind
of get what you're given Right.
To me.
It's the beauty of the process.
Ben Sutherland (18:57):
Are you ever going to attempt a hydroformed
house?
That would be pretty epic.
Gerard Dombroski (19:02):
Yeah, yeah, I've been trying to weigh it up
whether I make a littlehydroformed uh office like a
little, just a little studio,like a backyard office.
If anybody out there wants ahydroformed office, let me go I
do obviously but I just want tohydroform, like I was thinking
to start off small, but it'sstill a fuckload of water.
(19:22):
I like the size of the bed inmy unit or something like 2.4 by
1.8.
But just a comically house-likeshape, you know the gable and a
door and a window.
Sam Brown (19:37):
Traditional, like kid's drawing.
Gerard Dombroski (19:38):
Yeah, kid's drawing.
But then you fill it up withwater and figure it out.
Ben Sutherland (19:43):
Or and just hear me out you literally go and buy
like a bouncy castle and youjust pull it apart so you can
use that as your template, andthen just wow, wow that all
together and blow that up astainless steel bouncy castle
would be pretty epic does itonly work with stainless?
Gerard Dombroski (20:01):
nah, nah.
I've just been starting to usestainless a lot.
It's kind of nice to work with.
Ben Sutherland (20:07):
Can you weld stainless as good?
Yeah, I mean you personally.
Nah, just kidding.
Gerard Dombroski (20:15):
Can you weld stainless?
Ben Sutherland (20:17):
I've welded twice before.
Gerard Dombroski (20:22):
I like working with stainless.
The colour feedback is quitenice, Like you can tell if your
welds are going good on howcolourful your weld is.
Yeah, but yeah, I think, likeyou said before, like people,
architects generally have anidea of materiality, but you
(20:45):
maybe.
Sometimes we apply materials toa face, versus like using the
inherent qualities of materialto make the wall and the I don't
know what's left.
Is the outcome like like a logcabin perhaps?
Is like a true example?
Sam Brown (21:02):
yeah, it's so true, I'd say that.
I'd say that 99% of what we doand you know to your point is
essentially like facadeism.
Gerard Dombroski (21:12):
Yeah, we're decorating cakes to a large
degree, totally.
Sam Brown (21:15):
Yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (21:16):
I don't know, I'm just quite seduced by
process-based outcomes.
That sucks, so the more I can.
You can kind of trick yourselfinto unknown outcomes that way
as well but how?
Ben Sutherland (21:31):
so what's the design process other than like
hydroforming?
I kind of get, but what aresome other ways you can achieve
that, that design, that unknowndesign process?
Sam Brown (21:42):
melting stuff, yeah like yeah, yeah like melting
plastics or even melting metals.
Let it cool around a form Idon't know.
Ben Sutherland (21:53):
But you're not going to do that on a house size
scale.
Sam Brown (21:56):
Well, you know maybe Could you, yeah, but could you?
But if not, then why not on anelemental scale?
You know, like you could dothat for furniture.
To begin with, you know, startsmall and then you can start to
move it up to okay, can we dolike building elements as part
of it?
Or, you know, does it becomepart of, like, generation of
(22:19):
form?
You know what I mean.
Like I think that's quite aninteresting way of looking at it
.
You know, it's like I guessit's a it's quite an interesting
way of looking at it.
You know, it's like I guessit's a matter of probably
changing the state of material,right, you know, because the
majority of stuff that we dealwith is solid and in its solid
state it's rather limiting, butit's a matter of trying to take
(22:41):
it to a, like a more liquid, orI don't know.
Even can you turn somethinginto a gas that then generates
form?
I don't know.
Gerard Dombroski (22:52):
You know, like .
Sam Brown (22:53):
I think it's changing the actual, like natural state
of it to generate something new,but it's still like it's the
process, but it's still superhonest, if you know what I mean.
Gerard Dombroski (23:02):
Yeah, there's like those dome projects where
they inflate like a bubble, likea canvas, yeah, and then pour
concrete over it with rebar.
Sam Brown (23:11):
There you go, that's gas.
Inspired.
Ben Sutherland (23:15):
There's.
Who?
Is it One of them?
Maybe?
Oh, I can't remember RenzoPiano, I can't remember.
But how they basically, like,made that log cabin and then
formed the concrete around it,then burnt the timber oh cool,
oh um for chapel.
Yeah, I actually visited ingermany once.
Gerard Dombroski (23:36):
It's pretty yeah like stuff like that is
just so processed like the.
Yeah, that's like whatinterests me, a shite load.
Ben Sutherland (23:47):
Yeah.
Sam Brown (23:53):
That Zumthal one's pretty cool because it's sort of
like it's the everything housetimes two.
It's been completely built outof timber, yeah, and then
completely built out of concrete, but it's the same building,
but it's two very different.
It would have been quiteinteresting to have had the
timber form sort of there forlet's say, a decade and the
experience that people kind ofhave in using that for that
(24:17):
period of time.
And then all of a sudden he'slike, oh, I'm going to encase it
in concrete, burn it, and thenit's the same building, but it's
a completely differentexperience.
It's a completely differentinternal environment.
Gerard Dombroski (24:28):
That's quite a cool concept there's something
interesting there about like areally long time frame.
So, like I don't know, you'repouring in a meter of concrete a
year or something into like asomething that fills up well,
I'm building a house out ofhouse.
House is more of a, theconstruction of it's, more of
(24:49):
like a drawn-out spectacle yeah,they're probably even using
like sculpture or not, is ittopiary?
Sam Brown (24:55):
you know, like growing trees, you know you can
grow trees to sort of like be inand around things yeah,
controlling the growth of a treeto create form, or you know
something like that.
Gerard Dombroski (25:05):
It's quite quite cool there's a pleached
cathedral somewhere in the world.
I've seen pictures of.
Sam Brown (25:11):
What's it called Jura pleaching?
Is that the method?
Gerard Dombroski (25:14):
Yeah, you just train them to grow.
In certain ways you can pleachchairs and stuff if you just
grow a tree and bend it.
Sam Brown (25:29):
I want to find this now.
Gerard Dombroski (25:30):
There's another epic process, one I
remember on Arc Daily back inthe day.
They had another little singleroom but it was like straw bales
stacked on top of each other.
Then they encased it inconcrete and then let the cows
just eat the straw out.
Really nice concrete.
(25:50):
And then let the cows just eatthe straw out really nice.
Yeah, that's quite like abeautiful messy form, I think,
with like a real sharp windowface yeah that's quite cool.
Ben Sutherland (26:01):
And then we've got old uh ishigami's restaurant
house ishigami's I was gonnasay that before where dig holes,
yeah, and fill that full ofconcrete.
I guess the common theme isjust using either the material
or the negative, or using theactual negative, the inverse,
the inverse, yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (26:22):
I'm going to start experimenting with steel
as concrete formwork.
Oh yeah, Just got a chair, sortof like a stool commission at
the moment.
So just like, maybe justplaying with the thickness of
your steel to see how muchnatural I guess it's
high-swelling but with concrete.
Sam Brown (26:43):
Right, and so is the final product going to be
concrete, but you're not reallycontrolling how precise it would
be.
No, is that the idea?
Gerard Dombroski (26:53):
I guess it'd be like a box frame and then
you'd pick the thickness of thesteel as to how, and then the
weight of the concrete, how muchthat would bow out.
Ben Sutherland (27:05):
But, wouldn't, you be able to.
Gerard Dombroski (27:07):
Long time ago, with a very subtle movement in
his moulds.
Ben Sutherland (27:13):
Yeah, would you hydroform it first and then fill
it full of concrete.
Gerard Dombroski (27:19):
What's that?
Ben Sutherland (27:20):
You could hydroform it first if you wanted
even more bulge.
Sam Brown (27:26):
Yeah, in theory yes, but I'm probably more interested
in, like the, the story of theprocess yeah, and and I like
your idea of subtlety there aswell, gerard I think, like
everything we've sort of talkedto so far all of the solutions,
all of the results of theseprocesses it'll be quite abrupt,
(27:46):
but something like that.
You kind of know that it's notthe natural way that that
material is supposed to be, butyou're not quite sure why, you
know.
Yeah, I like that nature ofsubtlety to it.
Ben Sutherland (28:00):
I don't know.
I'm on the fence about that one.
I'd need to be proven that.
I guess the subtlety if done,done poorly, could just look
like a mistake.
Sam Brown (28:09):
Yeah.
Ben Sutherland (28:10):
You potentially need to concept explain
Someone's boxing wasn't builtproperly and blew out a little
bit in this corner 100%.
Gerard Dombroski (28:24):
I've had a few of those before.
They're never mistakes.
They're never mistakes.
Sam Brown (28:28):
They're never mistakes, they're just design
iterations.
You know, experimentation.
Gerard Dombroski (28:34):
How much shit have people passed off as like
intentional, when it's been justa giant mistake?
Sam Brown (28:39):
Isn't that what we do as a profession
post-rationalization?
Gerard Dombroski (28:43):
Yeah, it's like oh shit, I forgot to tell
you a door.
Sam Brown (28:46):
Oh no it's about enclosure.
Gerard Dombroski (28:50):
It's tough oh shit, I forgot to tell you a
door.
Ben Sutherland (28:51):
Oh, now it's about enclosure.
Gerard Dombroski (28:52):
It's tough live decorating cakes.
I forgot to give you a window.
Oh no, this room's the cave.
It's the narrative of the space.
Sam Brown (28:58):
This is your gimp den , but it's on the top floor.
I'm sure that was in the brief.
Gerard Dombroski (29:06):
No, oh, my bad genius they don't go super hard
on the single material.
But you know the tree hotel andsomewhere in scandinavia where
they have just a bunch of realelaborate um, I guess hotel
(29:27):
structures floating around inthe bush, yeah, yeah, there's
like a mirror one which is likejust a mirror cube on a single
tree.
Sam Brown (29:37):
Oh yeah, I know the one.
That's pretty cool.
Gerard Dombroski (29:40):
It's like full mirror outside, full timber
inside, and then you sort of seethe trunk coming through the
space.
Sam Brown (29:47):
I'll say one material we haven't discussed which I
think has a lot of potential isbamboo as well.
For that, everything use.
Ben Sutherland (29:56):
I knew you were going to bring up bamboo, the
bamboo man.
Sam Brown (29:59):
Come on, I thought it had to be.
Ben Sutherland (30:00):
It's good.
Yeah, it has to be done.
I mean like in theory, that'swhat my thesis was.
Sam Brown (30:07):
It's what it started.
Yeah, the concept startedaround that and then sort of it
evolved out a little bit.
But then I had that I designedthat house in nepal which was
all bamboos, sands, the concretefootings, and which was pretty.
That was that.
I guess that was a proof ofconcept.
Like all the windows, doors,the furniture structure,
(30:29):
everything was all bamboo,bamboo pins.
The only thing that wasplumbing material, isn't it?
bamboo plumbing?
Yeah, the only thing wasn't waselectrical.
You can't.
You can't run a charge throughbamboo unless someone else
someone knows how to.
You'll crack code, maybe run itthrough your pipe.
Gerard Dombroski (30:48):
What was that?
You run it through your pipes?
Yeah, you could do.
Yeah, water conducting.
Ben Sutherland (30:54):
Yeah, water conducting.
Sam Brown (30:56):
I've cracked it.
That's another one.
One thing that we haven'ttalked about is maybe shifting
from that idea of maybe materialso much, but still in that vein
of the everything house.
Ben Sutherland (31:06):
Ben, you've got a note here on color well, yeah,
the everything, the all, onecolor house.
This reminds me of the.
Gerard dombrowski attemptedthis once, didn't you, gerard?
How'd that work out?
Gerard Dombroski (31:20):
well, I moved jobs halfway through that
project so I wasn't there todrive the train.
What color?
Sam Brown (31:28):
were you going for gerard?
Gerard Dombroski (31:30):
full yellow it was a yellow yellow but
everything being yellow, so it'spretty epic.
Ben Sutherland (31:37):
The problem that the thing that happened was
just finding a urine yellowtoilet is was just too.
Sam Brown (31:46):
Wait, wait, wait.
Did you say urine yellow?
Was that the entire concept?
Gerard Dombroski (31:53):
Yes, it was.
Ben Sutherland (31:55):
It had like yellow tiles, yellow floor tiles
, yellow everything.
Sam Brown (32:00):
A little bit soft yellow room.
Oh yeah, nice.
I mean, I think that's a greatconcept and maybe it's not done
to that extreme.
But you know, have you seenthat project, that Seven
Colourful Little Houses projectin Christchurch?
Gerard Dombroski (32:18):
Is that a recent one?
Sam Brown (32:20):
Recently completed one.
I mean, that's sort of of thatilk.
Ben Sutherland (32:24):
Oh yes.
Sam Brown (32:25):
The designs are all exactly the same.
I think they may be pivotedabout 90 degrees to sight, but
the only thing thatdifferentiates them is the
colour.
But they've been true to thecolour selection.
So the entire facade or theentire exterior is one colour,
and then that's brought throughinto the interior, I think in
the kitchen and in the joinery,and I really like that, because
(32:47):
what they've taken is somethingthat could be incredibly benign.
You know, it's very much a spechouse, yeah, but with just one
yeah, kind of like yeah, onedesign decision that's made it
such a successful project, andso, yeah, it looks like it was
well executed as well.
Ben Sutherland (33:05):
I think it's because it's's quite well
designed and they've used quitegood products internally, so I
think they've pulled it offreally well.
Sam Brown (33:15):
Yeah, I love it.
I think it's really cool.
Also, good colour selections.
I think you could kind of itcould be less successful if
you're a bit too garish withyour colour choice.
Gerard Dombroski (33:28):
M-V-R-DDV.
The Dutch office.
Yeah, they are surely the kingsof colour.
Lots of like massive, monotoneprojects, just massive
colour-blocking entire buildings, and I like that because I
think we shy, particularly innew zealand.
Sam Brown (33:48):
Fuck, just getting back from central otago like
there is no blandish colorpalette yeah, yeah, this color
palette in the world, it's allso similar I mean we're so
terrified of the use of colorhere.
It's, you know, it's.
Yeah, it's shocking, I think.
I think I mean we've talkedabout it several times on the
podcast, but I think it'sbecause in general, we're pretty
(34:10):
plain and boring.
Ben Sutherland (34:14):
Isn't it crazy that all it takes is like a
building to be one full colourfor it to stand out.
How is that a thing?
Sam Brown (34:23):
That's crazy, but it's also commitment to the bit,
and I think this is the samewith the everything house and in
terms of materiality as well.
You, you can't half-ass aconcept like this.
You know like you can't go, I'mgonna do an everything else out
of timber, but there's gonna be, like you know, elements of
other materials.
It's just not gonna work.
(34:43):
Like, if you want this to betruly successful and it's
exactly the same with color iscommit wholeheartedly.
You know like, if you're like Iwant a splash of color, then
all you're doing is you've gotlike a feature wall or some
bullshit.
You know like, what you reallyneed is like full commitment.
Like, like Gerard, like yourfull piss yellow house.
Ben Sutherland (35:03):
You're in yellow .
Sam Brown (35:04):
You're in yellow.
Gerard Dombroski (35:04):
You're not sorry, sorry we had yellow
perspex light up ceiling as wellyeah, I think so.
Ben Sutherland (35:12):
Yeah, all right, at least that got done.
Did this get built?
Yeah, it got built.
Yeah, we built it.
That's all I know about itbecause I built the thing oh
cool.
Gerard Dombroski (35:24):
The kitchen joinery unit was pretty epic.
It was like particle boardjoinery.
The idea was you go inside thejoinery and then it's like the
womb, entirely yellow mass.
Then I went inside of my brainrehab centre.
Ben Sutherland (35:44):
It's complex wow , yeah, the toilet got cold,
unfortunately.
Sam Brown (35:50):
I was going to say did they commit 100% or were
there aspects of too hard basket?
Gerard Dombroski (35:55):
yeah, the toilet was that, it there's
always ways around these things,like if you did like a we were
going to paint it, but Gerarddid leave like a resin uricryl
lasts a long time on that.
But you could also like re-fireit, you could glaze it.
Yeah, all of these things likerequire you to go a little bit
further, or quite a bit further,to like re-glaze a whole toilet
(36:18):
.
Sam Brown (36:19):
Another option is coming back to our sort of you
know things generating over time.
You could just never clean it.
Ben Sutherland (36:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Gerard Dombroski (36:29):
It's probably yellow now let it naturally
patina no, you're not wrong thatwas the idea right and I wanted
to get all like the tapssandblasted and repowder coated.
Oh, would have been amazingyeah well you just got to do it
(36:49):
again.
Ben Sutherland (36:50):
Try and pull it off, pull it off properly.
Sam Brown (36:53):
It's funny, I mean it awes me clients that are
willing to commit to that.
I think it's the hardest thingis finding people.
You know, gerard, you'retalking about doing hydroforming
, a studio.
I mean you can do that becauseyou can kind of do it for
yourself.
But it's finding someone that'sas committed to the bit or as
committed to the concept as asyou is the tricky part, right
(37:14):
yeah, you do need brave people.
Gerard Dombroski (37:16):
When those guys were were brave, yeah, so
nice.
The stars do need to alignsometimes, but it goes both ways
.
Isn it Like you have to exudeconfidence for the bit?
Sam Brown (37:31):
Oh, absolutely.
Gerard Dombroski (37:32):
It's got to be believable If you're
half-assing your side, thenthere's no way you're ever going
to sell the idea.
Sam Brown (37:38):
I think that's the hard part as designers, in
particular in New Zealand, iswe're sort of ultimately
pigeonholed into a lane, whetherthat be by the people that we
work for or the clients that wehave or the design guidelines or
you know covenants or anythinglike that.
You know there's, there'sdefinitely scope, like you
(38:00):
definitely can push it and youcan do this crazy shit, but I
think like too often we don'tthink that way because you know,
the benign is so prevalent Ipersonally think that I just
struggle to think that way andso, like coming up with the
actual concepts, the hardestpart I guess.
Ben Sutherland (38:22):
Like and it takes a while to like, gerard,
you're just amazing at it you'vegot like the I want to push it
to the extreme, let's test this.
And then all of a sudden, afteryou know a small period of time
, you've got this concept.
That's kind of like exploringyour ideas, which is this is
something we've talked aboutnumerous times before in the pod
(38:43):
.
But actually, like coming tothose conclusions, like I'm
constantly asking myself what doI want to test?
Like what is it I want to test,what is?
So coming to those, answeringthose questions and coming to
those conclusions is probablythe hardest part yeah, I think
it's all.
Gerard Dombroski (39:02):
It is a muscle , like all design thinking, I
think, is muscle the more youlike.
I've actively tried to trickmyself into coming up with weird
ideas constantly for years yeahyeah I think you're, you're
well trained at it.
Sam Brown (39:23):
But I also think back to your point, ben is and I've
struggled with this as well asyou want to come up with ideas,
but I also I often find you sortof limit yourself because you,
because you're not confidentenough to just go fuck it, I'm
just gonna do so, I'm just gonnado it, whereas like drad, I
(39:43):
think, like you're a little bitmore, I'll just do it and I'll
just test it out yeah, likeyou're probably less, correct me
if I'm wrong, but I kind offeel like you're maybe less
afraid of the concept failing,then I think maybe I am and
maybe you are ben well, I thinklike the building side.
Ben Sutherland (40:02):
maybe I'm just a little bit too practical
sometimes, so I'm alwaysthinking about like the best way
to build something.
And that best way to buildsomething is always like comes
back to what you can actuallyget built in this country, based
on my current knowledge, so Idon't actually other than like
(40:23):
different ways to put somethingtogether.
It always sits within the samekind of parameter, whereas
Gerard's just like let's justgive something completely
different to go, which I thinkis epic, and yeah.
Yeah, still got to get shitbuilt, though, don't we?
Gerard Dombroski (40:42):
it's all about making other models to me, the
making part is architecture.
To me, like um, I don't know,everyone can have mean ideas,
but if you can't get it built,it's like how much is that
render worth?
Sam Brown (41:01):
yeah, well, that's it right.
Like paper architecture, I meanto be fair, there's there's
very much a realm ofarchitecture that is purely
paper.
You know, there's some peoplethat have kind of pegged their
entire career on paperarchitecture.
But realizing it, I think, isthe true uh success of of an
architectural concept yeah, likeold zaha, I guess 10 years of.
(41:23):
Yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (41:26):
But if your old man runs an oil company.
It's probably.
Sam Brown (41:32):
You've got a bit of financial backing.
Gerard Dombroski (41:34):
Financial backing.
Sam Brown (41:35):
A biaga was like that Years and years of competition,
entries and concepts and justideas, but full confidence in
those ideas.
Gerard Dombroski (41:45):
Yeah.
Sam Brown (41:45):
Full confidence and belief in your ability and it
just and it pays off.
But I think it takes a specialperson to kind of yeah, you know
, not negatively, but carry anego for that long without, like,
an actual success or without anactual result.
I reckon pretty hard yeah, Iremember.
Gerard Dombroski (42:05):
I remember a friend a painting friend saying
that persistence will always win, that they can't get rid of us.
If they tried, we're weeds.
Ben Sutherland (42:14):
I don't know, sometimes it feels like it's
just going to be easier to ownthe oil company and build your
own architecture.
Gerard Dombroski (42:28):
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Definitely definitely probablythe easier.
Easier way to go about things.
Sam Brown (42:34):
That's one option, yeah, all right, let's start
drooling yeah.
Where's?
Gerard Dombroski (42:42):
your property sale.
Sam Brown (42:43):
Digging for gold.
Can we do an oil?
Ben Sutherland (42:45):
house, let's open up those old quarries.
Sam Brown (42:47):
Can we do an oil house?
Let's open up those oldquarries Because lots of stuff
derived from oil.
How far can you stretch thisconcept?
Ben Sutherland (42:54):
Yeah, wow, Rammed earth right.
Do a rammed earth house SomehowGood at insulation values as
well.
Gerard Dombroski (43:06):
Yeah, they'll straw, bale, lime, lime.
Well, just a very earth house.
You know, just yeah why lots ofpeople go down the the, I guess
earth ship that's that one uses, it's a whole movement.
Sam Brown (43:18):
You know, like that's , that's a whole proven thing.
Gerard Dombroski (43:22):
So there's yeah, everyone, I guess, angle
towards these things, but thenat some point they might drift
away yeah, it's.
Sam Brown (43:31):
I mean, and I think what the reason that you drift
away is back to what you'resaying, ben is reality has to
come into it a little bit, youknow, and that's you know.
Back to that, you know, youkind of drift away from your
idea because you're like Iactually have to build this
thing or I have to make it realor something.
And that's why I like thatRobert Bruno house, because I
(43:52):
don't think he cared about itbeing functional or even like a
real realisation.
He just kept welding shit ontop of other stuff until he came
up with a form you know.
Gerard Dombroski (44:04):
It's amazing how consistent the aesthetic is
like for such a large structurelike, like, right down to the
the smaller details handrails,and like window mullions yeah
like all the lines.
Sam Brown (44:20):
Yeah, exactly the same as if you saw the building
from 100, 100 meters away yeah,seeing it from 100 meters versus
seeing it from like, yeah, ameter, it's the same same form.
Is that we're getting it?
Gerard Dombroski (44:31):
yeah, yeah, like the design language is
super consistent.
Yeah, I like that.
Ben Sutherland (44:36):
It's just how these new owners in their
overlay flooring how can we, howcan we get someone to pay us to
build, or at least pay for thebuilding of, like a pavilion or
something, so we can actuallylike experiment with some of
these ideas, the, the,everything house, the, all one
(44:57):
material and all the same color,I mean the brick bay.
Sam Brown (45:00):
Folly is sort of like like that in a way, isn't it?
It's sort of a a mechanism toto true, to you know, to test
things out and to do something.
Gerard Dombroski (45:12):
Yeah, do something.
Should we enter?
Sam Brown (45:14):
one started to look the same yeah, it would be cool
if there was more, I mean, but Iguess there's the risk of it
becoming too sculptural, thoughyou know at what point is.
Is it a sculpture and is?
Gerard Dombroski (45:26):
is it?
Sam Brown (45:26):
architecture.
Well, but I I'm but you knowwhat I mean like not to say that
sculpture can't be architecture, but, like you know, is it just
a form that's not necessarilyhabitable, like, or how do you?
I mean shit, this is aconversation, definitely for
another time, like we need todraw the line at sculpture, at
(45:47):
sculpture versus architecturewhat is habitable?
Gerard Dombroski (45:50):
can you crawl through your hallway?
Sam Brown (45:54):
your giants, your giant stick man.
Can you crawl through those?
Do you have to stand upright?
Gerard Dombroski (45:58):
through a room , definitely not well pod.
Sam Brown (46:05):
I grew up in a bedroom that I couldn't stand up
and it was great.
Gerard Dombroski (46:07):
Yeah, I guess lots of little loft, tiny house
loft, not standing up in thatthis is.
Ben Sutherland (46:14):
This is a good segue, actually, for are we
going to test our new, newlittle segment?
Hated or love it?
Yeah, all right.
Well, if anyone else I don'tknow if you guys have got any
ideas, but I was thinking that,similar to the sculpture I hated
or love it, the the arcade,like decorative architectural
(46:36):
elements.
Is that a hate or a love?
I mean, like, look around,looking around you're talking
classical moment.
Yeah, but it doesn't need to beclassical.
It can be like a moderninterpretation.
Gerard Dombroski (46:48):
There's just there's just no decorative
elements in buildings these daysyeah I think it's really I
think, yeah, I'm all for thehate it do we just hate?
Ben Sutherland (47:00):
do we hate decorative elements now?
Gerard Dombroski (47:02):
well, I think people have been taught to hate.
Well, architects, particularly,have been taught by
universities to.
Modernist is the direction,whereas maybe we're all bullied
into it.
Ben Sutherland (47:11):
We were literally just talking about
exposing the structure.
It's hard to backtrack.
Gerard Dombroski (47:19):
I am actually all for complexity.
Thomas Heatherwick's book wherehe's yarning about general
people respond better to likeolder buildings that have like
rhythm.
Sam Brown (47:32):
Ornamentation yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (47:34):
Yeah, it comes with like super intricate stone
relief.
Sam Brown (47:38):
Do you think that's because it's easier to
appreciate, like thecraftsmanship and the
workmanship?
Gerard Dombroski (47:45):
No, I think they're like digestible, like
right sheer rhythm, but then thecomplexity like is like just a
nice thing to look at, like yourbrain needs an element of
complexity to like focus in on,whereas a purely glass box is,
you know, might have some fancydetailing, but but nobody can
(48:07):
see it.
Sam Brown (48:08):
Yeah right, so we're really talking about when you
say decorative elements, it'sornamentation, it's
ornamentation?
Ben Sutherland (48:16):
Yeah, it is, and there's some amazing examples
of exactly what Gerard wastalking about, where it is more
of an intricate, a sculptural,whatever decorative element, but
it's also like a part of the,the structure itself.
So you can kind of combinethose two things, I guess, like
steel's probably, and eventimber, if done well, uh is
(48:40):
amazing at that sort of net, hasthat natural beauty, uh.
But it's just.
It feels like it's like a bitof a lost art that back in the
day it was just the norm soeveryone had it everywhere, even
like the old school villas, youknow, and now it's just not
even a part of the process, sono one is willing to pay for it
(49:01):
interestingly.
Sam Brown (49:02):
I think, though, if you know when we're thinking of,
like, hot or not, love it orhate it.
I would hate ornamentation onmodern day architecture though,
because it would feel too forced.
Ben Sutherland (49:14):
But would the architecture be different if it
had ornamentation?
You know it'd be designed withit integrated.
Sam Brown (49:20):
It could have been if we'd thought about this, you
know, generations ago.
But if we're thinking about,like, implementing this now, you
know how could this evolve,moving forward, the entire
architectural style would needto change to to support it.
You know, because I thinkeverything now is designed to
look so simple and basic that todesign that out, you'd have to
(49:42):
completely, like, come up with anew design language.
Gerard Dombroski (49:46):
You know what I mean you know it's not like
you're coming around andthrowing up Corinthian columns
everywhere.
Ben Sutherland (49:51):
No, well, that'd be nice.
I wish I was.
Gerard Dombroski (49:58):
I guess postmodern was a literal reusing
of some of those objects.
But there's a middle groundwhere you can reference these
shapes and forms, butpostmodernism looked at it on.
Sam Brown (50:09):
There's a middle ground where you can reference
these shapes and forms, butpostmodernism looked at it on
more of a building scale ratherthan like an elemental
ornamentation type scale, really, didn't it?
I mean, art Nouveau would be agood description of pure
ornamentation.
Gerard Dombroski (50:22):
Yeah yeah.
Art Nouveau is probably anexample of something that, in my
mind, still holds a lot ofweight, and you could run that
aesthetic now and it would bejust as awesome.
Sam Brown (50:34):
Like yeah, that's who's who's, who's bold enough
to, I'll give it a go.
Gerard Dombroski (50:43):
Well, I mean yeah, my example of like modern
um automation, I guess, is maybe, maybe just in people's use of
brick, which you see a lot inaustralia, like, yeah, like
malbright and john wattle, yeah,like all using quite more
complex different layers likejohn wattle did a proposal, or
(51:04):
was it for the world expo orremember as a lecture a while
ago, but super complex, castbricks and then just repeating
that mold over and over again.
So it's still making a brick inthe same way, just sending them
some molds yeah, well, anotherexample a super complex, but
(51:25):
it's then it's like it's quitereadable because it's over like
a whole face.
Ben Sutherland (51:29):
So it brings that, I guess, modernist
aesthetic, but bringing somereal gnarly complexity yeah,
another example I was thinkingof is actually another one from
you, gerard, this project thatwe're working on together at the
moment, and we had a hugediscussion.
I was totally against thesesteel eyelids that you really
(51:51):
wanted to put on and I was likethere's no way, there's no way
we're putting these eyelids on.
They're basically like curvedsteel with, like you know, a
little bit of I wouldn't saycall them complex, but a nice
rhythm, and I was against it.
And then I was like, nah, letme model it, let me put it on
there, and now I'm like I can'tsee the building without it.
Sam Brown (52:13):
It's just what was your?
Intricate part to back to thethe loving and hating
ornamentation.
What was your aversion to itlike?
Why did you dislike it to beginwith?
Ben Sutherland (52:24):
because I the the parts where the islands are,
the actual building itself hasset back quite a bit.
And I just wanted it to beginwith because I the the parts
where the eyelids are, theactual building itself is set
back quite a bit and I justwanted it to disappear.
But gerard wanted it to read asone full object and so hence
the eyelids, and now that theeyelids are on there, like, yeah
, 100 agree.
So I don't know, that's justanother example.
(52:45):
I'm actually, I'm actually havebeen not into any kind of
decorative architecture prettymuch my whole career until now.
I'm becoming more yeah, I'mbecoming more and more.
I just think like there's someit's a bit of a lost beauty and
yeah, I see my neighbor outthere spending a week painting
(53:08):
is nice picket fence.
I'm like, okay, well, look, youknow, if there's a bit more you
know beauty and you're you're abit more proud of your, your
buildings, then maybe you'dspend a bit more time looking
after it as well.
I don't know.
Sam Brown (53:23):
So I think for me, like I appreciate ornamentation
and its context and history, butI don't unless it's done
incredibly well, I don't reallylike it.
Now, I don't like eaves.
I find eaves too muchornamentation.
Ben Sutherland (53:40):
Yeah.
I didn't like eaves, but eavesare definitely back in.
For me, that's a good one,actually.
We'll bring that on up in there.
Gerard Dombroski (53:48):
I love a really big eave.
Ben Sutherland (53:50):
Yeah, I love a big eave?
Gerard Dombroski (53:52):
I don't think I like any medium-sized eaves,
but I really like no eave orreally big eave.
Ben Sutherland (54:01):
Have you owned a house without an eave?
It kind of scares me.
Sam Brown (54:04):
My last house had no eaves and I was like, ah, it's
impervious, it kind of scares me.
Ben Sutherland (54:06):
My last house had no eaves and I was like, ah,
it's impervious, it'simpervious.
But, when you get really badrain, there's just something
like a little bit satisfyingabout a roof that actually just
kicks the water right off yourwalls.
Sam Brown (54:18):
Ah, you're just being grossy, no no no.
Ben Sutherland (54:23):
It'll probably last an extra 50 years.
So I don't know.
We've got two now.
We've got two.
Where do we stand ondecorations?
I am pro, pro and Sam's no.
Gerard Dombroski (54:39):
I'm no yeah better luck next time.
You are the weakest link and asyour punishment you have to put
ornamentation in your nextproject, all right.
Sam Brown (54:52):
Hate it or love it Eves.
Ben Sutherland (54:53):
Eves somehow slipped in there.
Needs more discussion, but proEves.
Sam Brown (54:58):
Pro.
I'm anti as well.
I'm 0-2.
Damn, it'd be boring if weagreed on all of these.
Gerard Dombroski (55:09):
That's great.
Just to dig into the eavesquickly, I think eaves without
spouting is awesome, like if youdeal with your rainwater at the
ground, gravel trap orsomething Zunthor's serpentine,
the photos of it in the rain,where it's like square waterfall
.
It's like just like squarewaterfall.
Where it's like all buckingdown.
(55:29):
It's just just moody.
Ben Sutherland (55:32):
You wouldn't want it somewhere where you're
walking under, but the vibes,it's like a fireplace nice nice,
oh well, that's, that's goodpod, yeah, and I'm looking
forward to hearing some resultsabout what the audience thinks
are pro decorations or pro eaves.
We'll find out.
Sam Brown (55:54):
All right Is that the pod.
Catch you next time.
Ka-chow Ka-chow, ka-chowKa-chow.
it's good listening into radio dombrowski
uh, cool, all right so what's onthe agenda today?
Ben Sutherland (00:22):
Should we crack into it?
What?
Sam Brown (00:23):
have you got for us?
Gerard Dombroski (00:24):
What yarns Are we spinning?
Sam Brown (00:27):
Well, before we get into the nitty-gritty, a bit of
a hiatus for the DPP.
A few life things have beengoing on Ben's shifted, shifted
islands no islands.
Up island To the big schmoke.
To the big schmoke, gerard'sbeen building cool shit.
(00:48):
I don't know if it's supposedto be on the D-low or not, and
I've had another kid, so we'vebeen a bit preoccupied.
But we're back better than everand with a bit of a new take.
We enjoyed our interview seriesbut trying to delve deeper into
some design concepts coming up,and the first one of the days,
something that I've beenthinking about, it's kind of
(01:10):
been on my mind for a while andit's a concept that I call the
everything house, sort offocusing on materiality, watch
out and it's a design idea whereeverything in the house is made
from one material.
Ben Sutherland (01:27):
So this let's take concrete spark.
Sam Brown (01:30):
What sparked that on for you, sam I think it's a use,
like us using sips a lot, andit's an incredible like it's a
very wooden interior when it'sexposed, yeah, but it's like
it's, it's a, it's a veneerultimately right like the actual
(01:50):
, like the inside of the wall isnot all wood and ice cream
sandwich you know this the slab.
If it's on a slab, you knowobviously that's not wood.
But so I was like what happensif everything is wood?
You know you're your framing,your lining, your insulation,
your furniture, your Everything,your plumbing, plumbing yeah,
(02:13):
why?
Ben Sutherland (02:13):
not you may as well exclude plumbing and
electrical.
I don't know how the electricalI mean electrical, probably not
.
Sam Brown (02:21):
I think there's some points you're going to have to
draw the line.
You're not getting a goodcurrent.
Gerard Dombroski (02:25):
Yeah, I don't know man.
Sam Brown (02:28):
I'm all for an extreme concept and forego the
realities but I, yeah, I I mean,well, that's the thing, right,
gerard?
Like you don't have to, itdoesn't necessarily even have to
be livable.
I mean, I I've jotted down acouple of examples for you guys
to check out.
I don't know if you had a lookat them at all.
Probably the most yeah, I wasgoing to say the most radical of
(02:49):
them is the Robert Bruno house.
I don't know if anyone's seenthat.
I'll put a link to it in theshow notes, but that is a proof
of concept.
Ben Sutherland (02:59):
One thing that blew my mind, actually when I
was doing some research on this,is the amount of quite well
renowned architects who haveactually attempted this I guess,
probably like when you areworking with material like
concrete, then it's just kind oflike makes sense to make it, oh
(03:21):
you know, fully, fully concreteconcrete roof, concrete
structure and yeah like today.
I was a great example, soconcrete is definitely the
obvious choice of material.
Also probably a lot easier toachieve in some of those foreign
countries.
As opposed to new zealand, Idon't know how it would work
(03:44):
trying to like meet the NewZealand building code.
Sam Brown (03:48):
Well, I think that's the thing right, like this idea
is not something that'snecessarily going to be even
functional, but I think it'sjust like it's a folly concept.
A pavilion, yeah, reallyexciting to explore, and that's
that Westerpunt by Studio Marta,really exciting to explore, and
that's that westerpunt bystudio mata.
You know, that's that sort ofhelix, um concrete, uh, what uh
(04:13):
like viewing platform is what itkind of is.
You know, that is that's thesort of idea that I'm getting to
the entire thing.
Gerard Dombroski (04:23):
Yeah, it is a epic object.
Sam Brown (04:27):
Yes, but that's quite cool because you know it's
concrete.
But it's so.
It's so dynamic and so fluidand it sort of really belies
that you know the, the nature orthe you know the physical
nature of concrete, because itlooks like water the gnarliness
of that is probably building itin the waves.
Gerard Dombroski (04:46):
Like it's, it's lapped by the waves yeah
which that must have somehorrendous foundations but
you're right.
Sam Brown (04:56):
Going back to the, you know, like today or ando
concepts and stuff, you knowthere's definitely architects
there that champion a materialyou know, and kundig's one who I
, you know.
That comes springs to mind maybenot necessarily, like you know,
giving himself over to onematerial in its entirety, but,
(05:18):
like his, the honesty of thematerials that he uses, like
everything is sort of warts andall it's raw.
It's you raw, it's sort of inits natural state, which I quite
like as well.
I feel like there's so muchgloss and ornamentation, almost
like the disguising of thereality of materials in the
stuff that we do, which I findkind of disappointing.
Gerard Dombroski (05:38):
Yeah Well, I think he's good at following his
aesthetic concept.
It's clearly industrial andpushes it all the way.
I think, like, for example,this Robert Bruno house big
steel sort of animalisticcreature thing from the outside
(05:59):
is epic but on the inside theykind of fall down.
Like the looks like laminateflooring in this super
industrial steel building.
You're so close.
Sam Brown (06:12):
Yeah, I kind of feel like You're not quite taking the
concept far enough.
Well, I almost think it's kindof posters death.
You know, the people that havebought it have tried to turn it
into something a bit real and Ithink you can stay there now.
Ben Sutherland (06:25):
Yeah, it's an Airbnb, I think, by the looks of
it.
Sam Brown (06:28):
Yeah, but it's kind of sad in a way because it's
going against what I think hisoriginal concept was, which was
for it to be completely steel.
Yeah, and I really like thestory in a way, the sustainable
nature of it and the fact thatall the steel he used was
salvaged and then he, overdecades, developed it
(06:52):
iteratively.
But he'd like chop bits out andthen reuse them somewhere else
and like be like I want to cut awindow here and then like weld
it onto somewhere else andthey'd be like oh, I don't like
that and you know, I kind oflike that ability to meld and
sort of like manipulate thematerial because it is all the
same.
You know you couldn't really dothat if there was, you know
(07:13):
there was a timber nature there.
Ben Sutherland (07:15):
If I was to I would definitely go with timber
as a material if I was toattempt this, I think just
because it comes in so many likesuch a variety of different
forms, so you can already havesome sort of timber cladding,
timber flooring, timberstructure.
Is it the potato?
Gerard Dombroski (07:34):
of building materials the potato of building
materials.
Sam Brown (07:37):
That's brilliant.
Probably is.
That's perfect.
You can what fries mash.
Ben Sutherland (07:46):
Yeah, exactly Chips, and it's so good, boiled,
baked and sustainable, I guessGoes in the ground Architecture
school does that like chaircardboard thing.
Gerard Dombroski (07:58):
They should do potatoes, potato architecture.
Sam Brown (08:03):
Yeah, timber's cool and I don't know if you guys
ever looked at and I think it'ssomething that's actually
probably been almost proven,particularly in the past.
You know, have you looked atthose Norwegians?
Is it stave or starve churches?
Gerard Dombroski (08:18):
They're the ones that are all black
generally.
Sam Brown (08:20):
Yeah, but they are like timber-fram timber framed
like timber, everything thetimber shingle.
I have a feeling they use likesawdust for insulation or
something crazy like that aswell.
The concept of that is prettycool.
Ben Sutherland (08:37):
Absolute fire death trap.
They look like witch houses.
Sam Brown (08:41):
Yeah, they do look like witch houses, but you know,
I little witch hats.
Gerard Dombroski (08:45):
Is the black stained or is it charred Because
?
You know, charring is a naturalfireproofing.
Sam Brown (08:51):
I think they're pretty old.
It's probably just like patina.
It might even be like you knowlichens.
Gerard Dombroski (08:56):
They just haven't washed it.
Sam Brown (08:58):
Yeah, that's what my outdoor furniture looks like.
Gerard Dombroski (09:09):
There's a good history of all timber buildings
around the world, like the oldjapanese temples and stuff yeah,
where they use like timbernails and yeah, yeah just that
sort of stuff.
Sam Brown (09:19):
I think that's, that's the.
Ben Sutherland (09:20):
That's sort of the level of detail that I'd
love to take this concept yeah,those all of the joints are kind
of like slotted perfectly intoposition and it's so satisfying
to watch.
Gerard Dombroski (09:33):
It's kind of funny how we have all these
initiatives to make buildingsreusable and design them so they
can come apart, and people havealready mastered that, mastered
it.
Ben Sutherland (09:45):
Yeah, it just takes a little bit longer yeah,
it's the labour aspect, really,isn't it?
Gerard Dombroski (09:53):
and the craftsmanship.
Sam Brown (09:54):
There's no way you're getting a chippy in New Zealand
to build in a Japanese manner.
Ben Sutherland (10:03):
I've spent a large period of my life watching
Japanese YouTube clips ontimber construction.
Nothing better than theirchisels and their tools are just
all so cool the handsaw andeverything it's like oh my god
do you reckon you could buildlike that?
(10:26):
a lot of it is like patience,and I guess you would probably
want to go and learn from one ofthose masters for a period of
time, because there's a lot toit, like the way that they do
their set outs and everything isjust.
It's just phenomenal really.
It's just completely differentand it's all hand-drawn and
hand-calculated and measured andcut.
(10:49):
It's craftsmanship really,isn't it?
Yeah, it's craftsmanship.
It's building a bit of joinery.
It's far more like joinery thanit is construction.
So you'd probably want a bit oftraining.
You'd attempt it and you'dprobably pull off something half
.
Okay, I find it interestingthat a bit of training, you'd
attempt it and you'd probablypull off something.
Gerard Dombroski (11:05):
I find it interesting that a lot of the
newer ones they still have thesame structure, um, but they're
all kind of hidden.
Ultimately, by the end of theproject you don't see any of
them.
Yeah, whereas it's kind ofinteresting to put so much time
in care.
Sam Brown (11:20):
They're still building, like actually you
don't see.
Gerard Dombroski (11:23):
Yeah, what's it?
Sam Brown (11:25):
are they still building like that?
Yeah, yeah, definitely shitcool.
Ben Sutherland (11:28):
Yeah, the ones that I like go on the youtube
rabbit holes.
It's like literally, like theycut the logs down, they select
some trees.
That's where they start.
They start by like cutting downthe trees and milling the
timber and storing it in theyard for a year, and it's pretty
insane.
Sam Brown (11:47):
I mean that's sustainable right.
That's the true description ofvernacular.
Gerard Dombroski (11:54):
Yeah, the use of the immediate their spec home
essentially is still like thebig 150 by 150 microframe timber
posts everywhere, everywhere,all slotting, but it's just like
cnc'd yeah, it's all done on agrid, but it's still still put
together the same way yeah whichis just epic that they hold on
(12:19):
to that rather than doing whatthe rest of us are doing.
Sam Brown (12:25):
rather than doing what the rest of us are doing,
try and marry up as many foreignmaterials as humanly possible.
I feel like that's the way webuild.
Ben Sutherland (12:33):
Yeah, it is, and I guess the whole point of it
is like, well, the whole pointof an every hat thing house
would be to expose like the rawstructure and you know, like it
tells the story about how it wasbuilt and how long it's been
there and the man hours uh ittook to kind of assemble where
(12:54):
the material.
You can even like kind ofunderstand a lot more about
where the materials come fromand and what it is.
And I think so, if you, ifyou're gonna, you know, I guess
that's what's amazing aboutthose houses is it really does
kind of uh, it's all prettyobvious when you walk in those
spaces that you understandexactly how it was built and
(13:16):
designed and everything.
That's a.
Sam Brown (13:19):
I think it's the honesty right, it's, it's the
honesty of the building, I feellike.
So much what's interesting.
I saw a comment about sort ofsomething about materiality and
and is it something that we asarchitects or designers really
consider?
And I think that that it is.
I mean, it's a you know, it's apretty common buzz term that we
(13:40):
use all the time, and I thinkwe really do think about
materiality when we're designingbut is it something that users
appreciate and interact on asame, on a similar level?
I don't think so.
You know, I don't think thatthey go and look at that
westerpunt, you know, look outand go, holy shit, this whole
(14:00):
thing's made out of concrete.
It's like cantilevering on this, like helix form.
How did they form this out ofconcrete?
Like they're not really lookingat it that way.
But back to your point being a,you know, if something's really
pushed, you know, like if theyare experiencing and everything
else, then they have no, but nochoice but to appreciate and
interact with it, and I thinkthat's quite a nice way of
(14:23):
getting users and the consumersof buildings to kind of
appreciate materiality a bitmore.
Ben Sutherland (14:31):
Yeah, so exposing the materials as
opposed to covering them up?
Gerard Dombroski (14:35):
Yeah, architecture is so often
peripheral, like by design issomething that's in the back of
your mind.
It has to be pretty gnarly tocome front of mind.
Sam Brown (14:49):
Yeah, it has to punch you in the face a little bit
for you to take note as like nota common, you know, not a
casual sort of appreciator.
I mean, I'd say that a lot oflisteners and us all as
architects, you know, Idistinctly remember when we were
at architecture school as well.
You know you walk around withyour head in the sky because
(15:10):
you're just looking up atbuildings all the time.
Most people don't do that, butyou know if something really is
quite sensational or spectacularor interesting, then it, you
know it draws in the generalpublic.
You know you're not going tohave somebody come into a spec
house in New Zealand and go ohwow, look at this beautiful use
of a plasterboard.
Gerard Dombroski (15:28):
That's crazy.
I've never seen it before.
Yeah, that beautiful jib board.
What a unique use of jib board.
Ben Sutherland (15:37):
Literally no one has ever seen that.
That's so funny.
Sam Brown (15:43):
Could you do a plasterboard house?
Gerard Dombroski (15:45):
Yeah, I guess, if you laminated enough
plasterboard together, it wouldbecome.
Ben Sutherland (15:48):
It would just melt in the rain, I mean hey, if
you can do a cardboardcathedral, you can do a
plasterboard house, surely?
Sam Brown (15:58):
Yeah, actually that's a really good proof.
That's a really good kind ofeverything.
Material is you know ShigeruBan's use of cardboard?
Gerard Dombroski (16:06):
Yeah, that's a guy who knows how to run a
concept.
Sam Brown (16:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (16:10):
Often running a concept.
He just scales up his modelsand you have to like pull
everything back to make sure youfollow that.
The issue is when you startcutting corners and letting
other materials come in.
Yeah, issue is when you startcutting corners and letting
other materials come in.
Yeah, so, like the, the icehotel is probably a really
blatant example of like asuccessful single material
(16:32):
project yep, because in that,all the beds, all the furniture,
everything's carved out of ice,correct?
yeah, yeah, cold slate butpeople, people go from lots of
places over the world to stay inone of those, don't they?
Ben Sutherland (16:47):
How long do they last?
I?
Gerard Dombroski (16:50):
don't know A couple of months, the heart of
winter.
Ben Sutherland (16:55):
What about a tree?
I guess there's a lot of treehut architecture on Airbnb and
that sort of thing.
Gerard Dombroski (17:03):
Yeah, people respond well to novelties.
I think, well, maybe we, justas humans, need novelty to more
novelty, architecture cutthrough.
Sam Brown (17:12):
I think it's because everything else is so benign,
right, yeah?
Gerard Dombroski (17:17):
and so few people are willing to follow a
concept to the degree that isrequired to make something
really impactful what we shouldbe doing is.
Ben Sutherland (17:28):
One way to design like this would be to
probably do what shakira barndoes and make a physical model
of your or whatever it iscathedral or house or whatever
and literally just scale it up.
Yeah, I'm using the samematerial and everything yeah,
shit.
Sam Brown (17:47):
Yeah, I mean, I used.
I used heaps of plaster when Iwas at uni for modeling.
Ben Sutherland (17:52):
I don't there you go, but that's your job
house yeah, well, that, exactlythat's the past.
Sam Brown (18:00):
I've already done it nice.
Gerard Dombroski (18:02):
yeah, exactly.
Well, it's a good way to likeuse the inherent qualities of a
material.
Like, if you're a ceramic house, like I don't know, you're
probably going to need somearchways and shit going on, yeah
, yeah.
Sam Brown (18:18):
Understanding the limitations of your medium.
You know that's quiteinteresting.
Like how does I was just goingto say, gerard like for you,
particularly with all your steelwork, like you'd have you'd
have a far better relationshipor understanding of that than we
probably do like, how does thatsort of transform into your,
into your art and your sculpturemaking and stuff?
Gerard Dombroski (18:39):
well, a lot of my stuff's designed around the
process of making it, so I don'thydroform things.
You set your parameters andthen you hydroform and you kind
of get what you're given Right.
To me.
It's the beauty of the process.
Ben Sutherland (18:57):
Are you ever going to attempt a hydroformed
house?
That would be pretty epic.
Gerard Dombroski (19:02):
Yeah, yeah, I've been trying to weigh it up
whether I make a littlehydroformed uh office like a
little, just a little studio,like a backyard office.
If anybody out there wants ahydroformed office, let me go I
do obviously but I just want tohydroform, like I was thinking
to start off small, but it'sstill a fuckload of water.
(19:22):
I like the size of the bed inmy unit or something like 2.4 by
1.8.
But just a comically house-likeshape, you know the gable and a
door and a window.
Sam Brown (19:37):
Traditional, like kid's drawing.
Gerard Dombroski (19:38):
Yeah, kid's drawing.
But then you fill it up withwater and figure it out.
Ben Sutherland (19:43):
Or and just hear me out you literally go and buy
like a bouncy castle and youjust pull it apart so you can
use that as your template, andthen just wow, wow that all
together and blow that up astainless steel bouncy castle
would be pretty epic does itonly work with stainless?
Gerard Dombroski (20:01):
nah, nah.
I've just been starting to usestainless a lot.
It's kind of nice to work with.
Ben Sutherland (20:07):
Can you weld stainless as good?
Yeah, I mean you personally.
Nah, just kidding.
Gerard Dombroski (20:15):
Can you weld stainless?
Ben Sutherland (20:17):
I've welded twice before.
Gerard Dombroski (20:22):
I like working with stainless.
The colour feedback is quitenice, Like you can tell if your
welds are going good on howcolourful your weld is.
Yeah, but yeah, I think, likeyou said before, like people,
architects generally have anidea of materiality, but you
(20:45):
maybe.
Sometimes we apply materials toa face, versus like using the
inherent qualities of materialto make the wall and the I don't
know what's left.
Is the outcome like like a logcabin perhaps?
Is like a true example?
Sam Brown (21:02):
yeah, it's so true, I'd say that.
I'd say that 99% of what we doand you know to your point is
essentially like facadeism.
Gerard Dombroski (21:12):
Yeah, we're decorating cakes to a large
degree, totally.
Sam Brown (21:15):
Yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (21:16):
I don't know, I'm just quite seduced by
process-based outcomes.
That sucks, so the more I can.
You can kind of trick yourselfinto unknown outcomes that way
as well but how?
Ben Sutherland (21:31):
so what's the design process other than like
hydroforming?
I kind of get, but what aresome other ways you can achieve
that, that design, that unknowndesign process?
Sam Brown (21:42):
melting stuff, yeah like yeah, yeah like melting
plastics or even melting metals.
Let it cool around a form Idon't know.
Ben Sutherland (21:53):
But you're not going to do that on a house size
scale.
Sam Brown (21:56):
Well, you know maybe Could you, yeah, but could you?
But if not, then why not on anelemental scale?
You know, like you could dothat for furniture.
To begin with, you know, startsmall and then you can start to
move it up to okay, can we dolike building elements as part
of it?
Or, you know, does it becomepart of, like, generation of
(22:19):
form?
You know what I mean.
Like I think that's quite aninteresting way of looking at it
.
You know, it's like I guessit's a it's quite an interesting
way of looking at it.
You know, it's like I guessit's a matter of probably
changing the state of material,right, you know, because the
majority of stuff that we dealwith is solid and in its solid
state it's rather limiting, butit's a matter of trying to take
(22:41):
it to a, like a more liquid, orI don't know.
Even can you turn somethinginto a gas that then generates
form?
I don't know.
Gerard Dombroski (22:52):
You know, like .
Sam Brown (22:53):
I think it's changing the actual, like natural state
of it to generate something new,but it's still like it's the
process, but it's still superhonest, if you know what I mean.
Gerard Dombroski (23:02):
Yeah, there's like those dome projects where
they inflate like a bubble, likea canvas, yeah, and then pour
concrete over it with rebar.
Sam Brown (23:11):
There you go, that's gas.
Inspired.
Ben Sutherland (23:15):
There's.
Who?
Is it One of them?
Maybe?
Oh, I can't remember RenzoPiano, I can't remember.
But how they basically, like,made that log cabin and then
formed the concrete around it,then burnt the timber oh cool,
oh um for chapel.
Yeah, I actually visited ingermany once.
Gerard Dombroski (23:36):
It's pretty yeah like stuff like that is
just so processed like the.
Yeah, that's like whatinterests me, a shite load.
Ben Sutherland (23:47):
Yeah.
Sam Brown (23:53):
That Zumthal one's pretty cool because it's sort of
like it's the everything housetimes two.
It's been completely built outof timber, yeah, and then
completely built out of concrete, but it's the same building,
but it's two very different.
It would have been quiteinteresting to have had the
timber form sort of there forlet's say, a decade and the
experience that people kind ofhave in using that for that
(24:17):
period of time.
And then all of a sudden he'slike, oh, I'm going to encase it
in concrete, burn it, and thenit's the same building, but it's
a completely differentexperience.
It's a completely differentinternal environment.
Gerard Dombroski (24:28):
That's quite a cool concept there's something
interesting there about like areally long time frame.
So, like I don't know, you'repouring in a meter of concrete a
year or something into like asomething that fills up well,
I'm building a house out ofhouse.
House is more of a, theconstruction of it's, more of
(24:49):
like a drawn-out spectacle yeah,they're probably even using
like sculpture or not, is ittopiary?
Sam Brown (24:55):
you know, like growing trees, you know you can
grow trees to sort of like be inand around things yeah,
controlling the growth of a treeto create form, or you know
something like that.
Gerard Dombroski (25:05):
It's quite quite cool there's a pleached
cathedral somewhere in the world.
I've seen pictures of.
Sam Brown (25:11):
What's it called Jura pleaching?
Is that the method?
Gerard Dombroski (25:14):
Yeah, you just train them to grow.
In certain ways you can pleachchairs and stuff if you just
grow a tree and bend it.
Sam Brown (25:29):
I want to find this now.
Gerard Dombroski (25:30):
There's another epic process, one I
remember on Arc Daily back inthe day.
They had another little singleroom but it was like straw bales
stacked on top of each other.
Then they encased it inconcrete and then let the cows
just eat the straw out.
Really nice concrete.
(25:50):
And then let the cows just eatthe straw out really nice.
Yeah, that's quite like abeautiful messy form, I think,
with like a real sharp windowface yeah that's quite cool.
Ben Sutherland (26:01):
And then we've got old uh ishigami's restaurant
house ishigami's I was gonnasay that before where dig holes,
yeah, and fill that full ofconcrete.
I guess the common theme isjust using either the material
or the negative, or using theactual negative, the inverse,
the inverse, yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (26:22):
I'm going to start experimenting with steel
as concrete formwork.
Oh yeah, Just got a chair, sortof like a stool commission at
the moment.
So just like, maybe justplaying with the thickness of
your steel to see how muchnatural I guess it's
high-swelling but with concrete.
Sam Brown (26:43):
Right, and so is the final product going to be
concrete, but you're not reallycontrolling how precise it would
be.
No, is that the idea?
Gerard Dombroski (26:53):
I guess it'd be like a box frame and then
you'd pick the thickness of thesteel as to how, and then the
weight of the concrete, how muchthat would bow out.
Ben Sutherland (27:05):
But, wouldn't, you be able to.
Gerard Dombroski (27:07):
Long time ago, with a very subtle movement in
his moulds.
Ben Sutherland (27:13):
Yeah, would you hydroform it first and then fill
it full of concrete.
Gerard Dombroski (27:19):
What's that?
Ben Sutherland (27:20):
You could hydroform it first if you wanted
even more bulge.
Sam Brown (27:26):
Yeah, in theory yes, but I'm probably more interested
in, like the, the story of theprocess yeah, and and I like
your idea of subtlety there aswell, gerard I think, like
everything we've sort of talkedto so far all of the solutions,
all of the results of theseprocesses it'll be quite abrupt,
(27:46):
but something like that.
You kind of know that it's notthe natural way that that
material is supposed to be, butyou're not quite sure why, you
know.
Yeah, I like that nature ofsubtlety to it.
Ben Sutherland (28:00):
I don't know.
I'm on the fence about that one.
I'd need to be proven that.
I guess the subtlety if done,done poorly, could just look
like a mistake.
Sam Brown (28:09):
Yeah.
Ben Sutherland (28:10):
You potentially need to concept explain
Someone's boxing wasn't builtproperly and blew out a little
bit in this corner 100%.
Gerard Dombroski (28:24):
I've had a few of those before.
They're never mistakes.
They're never mistakes.
Sam Brown (28:28):
They're never mistakes, they're just design
iterations.
You know, experimentation.
Gerard Dombroski (28:34):
How much shit have people passed off as like
intentional, when it's been justa giant mistake?
Sam Brown (28:39):
Isn't that what we do as a profession
post-rationalization?
Gerard Dombroski (28:43):
Yeah, it's like oh shit, I forgot to tell
you a door.
Sam Brown (28:46):
Oh no it's about enclosure.
Gerard Dombroski (28:50):
It's tough oh shit, I forgot to tell you a
door.
Ben Sutherland (28:51):
Oh, now it's about enclosure.
Gerard Dombroski (28:52):
It's tough live decorating cakes.
I forgot to give you a window.
Oh no, this room's the cave.
It's the narrative of the space.
Sam Brown (28:58):
This is your gimp den , but it's on the top floor.
I'm sure that was in the brief.
Gerard Dombroski (29:06):
No, oh, my bad genius they don't go super hard
on the single material.
But you know the tree hotel andsomewhere in scandinavia where
they have just a bunch of realelaborate um, I guess hotel
(29:27):
structures floating around inthe bush, yeah, yeah, there's
like a mirror one which is likejust a mirror cube on a single
tree.
Sam Brown (29:37):
Oh yeah, I know the one.
That's pretty cool.
Gerard Dombroski (29:40):
It's like full mirror outside, full timber
inside, and then you sort of seethe trunk coming through the
space.
Sam Brown (29:47):
I'll say one material we haven't discussed which I
think has a lot of potential isbamboo as well.
For that, everything use.
Ben Sutherland (29:56):
I knew you were going to bring up bamboo, the
bamboo man.
Sam Brown (29:59):
Come on, I thought it had to be.
Ben Sutherland (30:00):
It's good.
Yeah, it has to be done.
I mean like in theory, that'swhat my thesis was.
Sam Brown (30:07):
It's what it started.
Yeah, the concept startedaround that and then sort of it
evolved out a little bit.
But then I had that I designedthat house in nepal which was
all bamboos, sands, the concretefootings, and which was pretty.
That was that.
I guess that was a proof ofconcept.
Like all the windows, doors,the furniture structure,
(30:29):
everything was all bamboo,bamboo pins.
The only thing that wasplumbing material, isn't it?
bamboo plumbing?
Yeah, the only thing wasn't waselectrical.
You can't.
You can't run a charge throughbamboo unless someone else
someone knows how to.
You'll crack code, maybe run itthrough your pipe.
Gerard Dombroski (30:48):
What was that?
You run it through your pipes?
Yeah, you could do.
Yeah, water conducting.
Ben Sutherland (30:54):
Yeah, water conducting.
Sam Brown (30:56):
I've cracked it.
That's another one.
One thing that we haven'ttalked about is maybe shifting
from that idea of maybe materialso much, but still in that vein
of the everything house.
Ben Sutherland (31:06):
Ben, you've got a note here on color well, yeah,
the everything, the all, onecolor house.
This reminds me of the.
Gerard dombrowski attemptedthis once, didn't you, gerard?
How'd that work out?
Gerard Dombroski (31:20):
well, I moved jobs halfway through that
project so I wasn't there todrive the train.
What color?
Sam Brown (31:28):
were you going for gerard?
Gerard Dombroski (31:30):
full yellow it was a yellow yellow but
everything being yellow, so it'spretty epic.
Ben Sutherland (31:37):
The problem that the thing that happened was
just finding a urine yellowtoilet is was just too.
Sam Brown (31:46):
Wait, wait, wait.
Did you say urine yellow?
Was that the entire concept?
Gerard Dombroski (31:53):
Yes, it was.
Ben Sutherland (31:55):
It had like yellow tiles, yellow floor tiles
, yellow everything.
Sam Brown (32:00):
A little bit soft yellow room.
Oh yeah, nice.
I mean, I think that's a greatconcept and maybe it's not done
to that extreme.
But you know, have you seenthat project, that Seven
Colourful Little Houses projectin Christchurch?
Gerard Dombroski (32:18):
Is that a recent one?
Sam Brown (32:20):
Recently completed one.
I mean, that's sort of of thatilk.
Ben Sutherland (32:24):
Oh yes.
Sam Brown (32:25):
The designs are all exactly the same.
I think they may be pivotedabout 90 degrees to sight, but
the only thing thatdifferentiates them is the
colour.
But they've been true to thecolour selection.
So the entire facade or theentire exterior is one colour,
and then that's brought throughinto the interior, I think in
the kitchen and in the joinery,and I really like that, because
(32:47):
what they've taken is somethingthat could be incredibly benign.
You know, it's very much a spechouse, yeah, but with just one
yeah, kind of like yeah, onedesign decision that's made it
such a successful project, andso, yeah, it looks like it was
well executed as well.
Ben Sutherland (33:05):
I think it's because it's's quite well
designed and they've used quitegood products internally, so I
think they've pulled it offreally well.
Sam Brown (33:15):
Yeah, I love it.
I think it's really cool.
Also, good colour selections.
I think you could kind of itcould be less successful if
you're a bit too garish withyour colour choice.
Gerard Dombroski (33:28):
M-V-R-DDV.
The Dutch office.
Yeah, they are surely the kingsof colour.
Lots of like massive, monotoneprojects, just massive
colour-blocking entire buildings, and I like that because I
think we shy, particularly innew zealand.
Sam Brown (33:48):
Fuck, just getting back from central otago like
there is no blandish colorpalette yeah, yeah, this color
palette in the world, it's allso similar I mean we're so
terrified of the use of colorhere.
It's, you know, it's.
Yeah, it's shocking, I think.
I think I mean we've talkedabout it several times on the
podcast, but I think it'sbecause in general, we're pretty
(34:10):
plain and boring.
Ben Sutherland (34:14):
Isn't it crazy that all it takes is like a
building to be one full colourfor it to stand out.
How is that a thing?
Sam Brown (34:23):
That's crazy, but it's also commitment to the bit,
and I think this is the samewith the everything house and in
terms of materiality as well.
You, you can't half-ass aconcept like this.
You know like you can't go, I'mgonna do an everything else out
of timber, but there's gonna be, like you know, elements of
other materials.
It's just not gonna work.
(34:43):
Like, if you want this to betruly successful and it's
exactly the same with color iscommit wholeheartedly.
You know like, if you're like Iwant a splash of color, then
all you're doing is you've gotlike a feature wall or some
bullshit.
You know like, what you reallyneed is like full commitment.
Like, like Gerard, like yourfull piss yellow house.
Ben Sutherland (35:03):
You're in yellow .
Sam Brown (35:04):
You're in yellow.
Gerard Dombroski (35:04):
You're not sorry, sorry we had yellow
perspex light up ceiling as wellyeah, I think so.
Ben Sutherland (35:12):
Yeah, all right, at least that got done.
Did this get built?
Yeah, it got built.
Yeah, we built it.
That's all I know about itbecause I built the thing oh
cool.
Gerard Dombroski (35:24):
The kitchen joinery unit was pretty epic.
It was like particle boardjoinery.
The idea was you go inside thejoinery and then it's like the
womb, entirely yellow mass.
Then I went inside of my brainrehab centre.
Ben Sutherland (35:44):
It's complex wow , yeah, the toilet got cold,
unfortunately.
Sam Brown (35:50):
I was going to say did they commit 100% or were
there aspects of too hard basket?
Gerard Dombroski (35:55):
yeah, the toilet was that, it there's
always ways around these things,like if you did like a we were
going to paint it, but Gerarddid leave like a resin uricryl
lasts a long time on that.
But you could also like re-fireit, you could glaze it.
Yeah, all of these things likerequire you to go a little bit
further, or quite a bit further,to like re-glaze a whole toilet
(36:18):
.
Sam Brown (36:19):
Another option is coming back to our sort of you
know things generating over time.
You could just never clean it.
Ben Sutherland (36:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Gerard Dombroski (36:29):
It's probably yellow now let it naturally
patina no, you're not wrong thatwas the idea right and I wanted
to get all like the tapssandblasted and repowder coated.
Oh, would have been amazingyeah well you just got to do it
(36:49):
again.
Ben Sutherland (36:50):
Try and pull it off, pull it off properly.
Sam Brown (36:53):
It's funny, I mean it awes me clients that are
willing to commit to that.
I think it's the hardest thingis finding people.
You know, gerard, you'retalking about doing hydroforming
, a studio.
I mean you can do that becauseyou can kind of do it for
yourself.
But it's finding someone that'sas committed to the bit or as
committed to the concept as asyou is the tricky part, right
(37:14):
yeah, you do need brave people.
Gerard Dombroski (37:16):
When those guys were were brave, yeah, so
nice.
The stars do need to alignsometimes, but it goes both ways
.
Isn it Like you have to exudeconfidence for the bit?
Sam Brown (37:31):
Oh, absolutely.
Gerard Dombroski (37:32):
It's got to be believable If you're
half-assing your side, thenthere's no way you're ever going
to sell the idea.
Sam Brown (37:38):
I think that's the hard part as designers, in
particular in New Zealand, iswe're sort of ultimately
pigeonholed into a lane, whetherthat be by the people that we
work for or the clients that wehave or the design guidelines or
you know covenants or anythinglike that.
You know there's, there'sdefinitely scope, like you
(38:00):
definitely can push it and youcan do this crazy shit, but I
think like too often we don'tthink that way because you know,
the benign is so prevalent Ipersonally think that I just
struggle to think that way andso, like coming up with the
actual concepts, the hardestpart I guess.
Ben Sutherland (38:22):
Like and it takes a while to like, gerard,
you're just amazing at it you'vegot like the I want to push it
to the extreme, let's test this.
And then all of a sudden, afteryou know a small period of time
, you've got this concept.
That's kind of like exploringyour ideas, which is this is
something we've talked aboutnumerous times before in the pod
(38:43):
.
But actually, like coming tothose conclusions, like I'm
constantly asking myself what doI want to test?
Like what is it I want to test,what is?
So coming to those, answeringthose questions and coming to
those conclusions is probablythe hardest part yeah, I think
it's all.
Gerard Dombroski (39:02):
It is a muscle , like all design thinking, I
think, is muscle the more youlike.
I've actively tried to trickmyself into coming up with weird
ideas constantly for years yeahyeah I think you're, you're
well trained at it.
Sam Brown (39:23):
But I also think back to your point, ben is and I've
struggled with this as well asyou want to come up with ideas,
but I also I often find you sortof limit yourself because you,
because you're not confidentenough to just go fuck it, I'm
just gonna do so, I'm just gonnado it, whereas like drad, I
(39:43):
think, like you're a little bitmore, I'll just do it and I'll
just test it out yeah, likeyou're probably less, correct me
if I'm wrong, but I kind offeel like you're maybe less
afraid of the concept failing,then I think maybe I am and
maybe you are ben well, I thinklike the building side.
Ben Sutherland (40:02):
maybe I'm just a little bit too practical
sometimes, so I'm alwaysthinking about like the best way
to build something.
And that best way to buildsomething is always like comes
back to what you can actuallyget built in this country, based
on my current knowledge, so Idon't actually other than like
(40:23):
different ways to put somethingtogether.
It always sits within the samekind of parameter, whereas
Gerard's just like let's justgive something completely
different to go, which I thinkis epic, and yeah.
Yeah, still got to get shitbuilt, though, don't we?
Gerard Dombroski (40:42):
it's all about making other models to me, the
making part is architecture.
To me, like um, I don't know,everyone can have mean ideas,
but if you can't get it built,it's like how much is that
render worth?
Sam Brown (41:01):
yeah, well, that's it right.
Like paper architecture, I meanto be fair, there's there's
very much a realm ofarchitecture that is purely
paper.
You know, there's some peoplethat have kind of pegged their
entire career on paperarchitecture.
But realizing it, I think, isthe true uh success of of an
architectural concept yeah, likeold zaha, I guess 10 years of.
(41:23):
Yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (41:26):
But if your old man runs an oil company.
It's probably.
Sam Brown (41:32):
You've got a bit of financial backing.
Gerard Dombroski (41:34):
Financial backing.
Sam Brown (41:35):
A biaga was like that Years and years of competition,
entries and concepts and justideas, but full confidence in
those ideas.
Gerard Dombroski (41:45):
Yeah.
Sam Brown (41:45):
Full confidence and belief in your ability and it
just and it pays off.
But I think it takes a specialperson to kind of yeah, you know
, not negatively, but carry anego for that long without, like,
an actual success or without anactual result.
I reckon pretty hard yeah, Iremember.
Gerard Dombroski (42:05):
I remember a friend a painting friend saying
that persistence will always win, that they can't get rid of us.
If they tried, we're weeds.
Ben Sutherland (42:14):
I don't know, sometimes it feels like it's
just going to be easier to ownthe oil company and build your
own architecture.
Gerard Dombroski (42:28):
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Definitely definitely probablythe easier.
Easier way to go about things.
Sam Brown (42:34):
That's one option, yeah, all right, let's start
drooling yeah.
Where's?
Gerard Dombroski (42:42):
your property sale.
Sam Brown (42:43):
Digging for gold.
Can we do an oil?
Ben Sutherland (42:45):
house, let's open up those old quarries.
Sam Brown (42:47):
Can we do an oil house?
Let's open up those oldquarries Because lots of stuff
derived from oil.
How far can you stretch thisconcept?
Ben Sutherland (42:54):
Yeah, wow, Rammed earth right.
Do a rammed earth house SomehowGood at insulation values as
well.
Gerard Dombroski (43:06):
Yeah, they'll straw, bale, lime, lime.
Well, just a very earth house.
You know, just yeah why lots ofpeople go down the the, I guess
earth ship that's that one uses, it's a whole movement.
Sam Brown (43:18):
You know, like that's , that's a whole proven thing.
Gerard Dombroski (43:22):
So there's yeah, everyone, I guess, angle
towards these things, but thenat some point they might drift
away yeah, it's.
Sam Brown (43:31):
I mean, and I think what the reason that you drift
away is back to what you'resaying, ben is reality has to
come into it a little bit, youknow, and that's you know.
Back to that, you know, youkind of drift away from your
idea because you're like Iactually have to build this
thing or I have to make it realor something.
And that's why I like thatRobert Bruno house, because I
(43:52):
don't think he cared about itbeing functional or even like a
real realisation.
He just kept welding shit ontop of other stuff until he came
up with a form you know.
Gerard Dombroski (44:04):
It's amazing how consistent the aesthetic is
like for such a large structurelike, like, right down to the
the smaller details handrails,and like window mullions yeah
like all the lines.
Sam Brown (44:20):
Yeah, exactly the same as if you saw the building
from 100, 100 meters away yeah,seeing it from 100 meters versus
seeing it from like, yeah, ameter, it's the same same form.
Is that we're getting it?
Gerard Dombroski (44:31):
yeah, yeah, like the design language is
super consistent.
Yeah, I like that.
Ben Sutherland (44:36):
It's just how these new owners in their
overlay flooring how can we, howcan we get someone to pay us to
build, or at least pay for thebuilding of, like a pavilion or
something, so we can actuallylike experiment with some of
these ideas, the, the,everything house, the, all one
(44:57):
material and all the same color,I mean the brick bay.
Sam Brown (45:00):
Folly is sort of like like that in a way, isn't it?
It's sort of a a mechanism toto true, to you know, to test
things out and to do something.
Gerard Dombroski (45:12):
Yeah, do something.
Should we enter?
Sam Brown (45:14):
one started to look the same yeah, it would be cool
if there was more, I mean, but Iguess there's the risk of it
becoming too sculptural, thoughyou know at what point is.
Is it a sculpture and is?
Gerard Dombroski (45:26):
is it?
Sam Brown (45:26):
architecture.
Well, but I I'm but you knowwhat I mean like not to say that
sculpture can't be architecture, but, like you know, is it just
a form that's not necessarilyhabitable, like, or how do you?
I mean shit, this is aconversation, definitely for
another time, like we need todraw the line at sculpture, at
(45:47):
sculpture versus architecturewhat is habitable?
Gerard Dombroski (45:50):
can you crawl through your hallway?
Sam Brown (45:54):
your giants, your giant stick man.
Can you crawl through those?
Do you have to stand upright?
Gerard Dombroski (45:58):
through a room , definitely not well pod.
Sam Brown (46:05):
I grew up in a bedroom that I couldn't stand up
and it was great.
Gerard Dombroski (46:07):
Yeah, I guess lots of little loft, tiny house
loft, not standing up in thatthis is.
Ben Sutherland (46:14):
This is a good segue, actually, for are we
going to test our new, newlittle segment?
Hated or love it?
Yeah, all right.
Well, if anyone else I don'tknow if you guys have got any
ideas, but I was thinking that,similar to the sculpture I hated
or love it, the the arcade,like decorative architectural
(46:36):
elements.
Is that a hate or a love?
I mean, like, look around,looking around you're talking
classical moment.
Yeah, but it doesn't need to beclassical.
It can be like a moderninterpretation.
Gerard Dombroski (46:48):
There's just there's just no decorative
elements in buildings these daysyeah I think it's really I
think, yeah, I'm all for thehate it do we just hate?
Ben Sutherland (47:00):
do we hate decorative elements now?
Gerard Dombroski (47:02):
well, I think people have been taught to hate.
Well, architects, particularly,have been taught by
universities to.
Modernist is the direction,whereas maybe we're all bullied
into it.
Ben Sutherland (47:11):
We were literally just talking about
exposing the structure.
It's hard to backtrack.
Gerard Dombroski (47:19):
I am actually all for complexity.
Thomas Heatherwick's book wherehe's yarning about general
people respond better to likeolder buildings that have like
rhythm.
Sam Brown (47:32):
Ornamentation yeah.
Gerard Dombroski (47:34):
Yeah, it comes with like super intricate stone
relief.
Sam Brown (47:38):
Do you think that's because it's easier to
appreciate, like thecraftsmanship and the
workmanship?
Gerard Dombroski (47:45):
No, I think they're like digestible, like
right sheer rhythm, but then thecomplexity like is like just a
nice thing to look at, like yourbrain needs an element of
complexity to like focus in on,whereas a purely glass box is,
you know, might have some fancydetailing, but but nobody can
(48:07):
see it.
Sam Brown (48:08):
Yeah right, so we're really talking about when you
say decorative elements, it'sornamentation, it's
ornamentation?
Ben Sutherland (48:16):
Yeah, it is, and there's some amazing examples
of exactly what Gerard wastalking about, where it is more
of an intricate, a sculptural,whatever decorative element, but
it's also like a part of the,the structure itself.
So you can kind of combinethose two things, I guess, like
steel's probably, and eventimber, if done well, uh is
(48:40):
amazing at that sort of net, hasthat natural beauty, uh.
But it's just.
It feels like it's like a bitof a lost art that back in the
day it was just the norm soeveryone had it everywhere, even
like the old school villas, youknow, and now it's just not
even a part of the process, sono one is willing to pay for it
(49:01):
interestingly.
Sam Brown (49:02):
I think, though, if you know when we're thinking of,
like, hot or not, love it orhate it.
I would hate ornamentation onmodern day architecture though,
because it would feel too forced.
Ben Sutherland (49:14):
But would the architecture be different if it
had ornamentation?
You know it'd be designed withit integrated.
Sam Brown (49:20):
It could have been if we'd thought about this, you
know, generations ago.
But if we're thinking about,like, implementing this now, you
know how could this evolve,moving forward, the entire
architectural style would needto change to to support it.
You know, because I thinkeverything now is designed to
look so simple and basic that todesign that out, you'd have to
(49:42):
completely, like, come up with anew design language.
Gerard Dombroski (49:46):
You know what I mean you know it's not like
you're coming around andthrowing up Corinthian columns
everywhere.
Ben Sutherland (49:51):
No, well, that'd be nice.
I wish I was.
Gerard Dombroski (49:58):
I guess postmodern was a literal reusing
of some of those objects.
But there's a middle groundwhere you can reference these
shapes and forms, butpostmodernism looked at it on.
Sam Brown (50:09):
There's a middle ground where you can reference
these shapes and forms, butpostmodernism looked at it on
more of a building scale ratherthan like an elemental
ornamentation type scale, really, didn't it?
I mean, art Nouveau would be agood description of pure
ornamentation.
Gerard Dombroski (50:22):
Yeah yeah.
Art Nouveau is probably anexample of something that, in my
mind, still holds a lot ofweight, and you could run that
aesthetic now and it would bejust as awesome.
Sam Brown (50:34):
Like yeah, that's who's who's, who's bold enough
to, I'll give it a go.
Gerard Dombroski (50:43):
Well, I mean yeah, my example of like modern
um automation, I guess, is maybe, maybe just in people's use of
brick, which you see a lot inaustralia, like, yeah, like
malbright and john wattle, yeah,like all using quite more
complex different layers likejohn wattle did a proposal, or
(51:04):
was it for the world expo orremember as a lecture a while
ago, but super complex, castbricks and then just repeating
that mold over and over again.
So it's still making a brick inthe same way, just sending them
some molds yeah, well, anotherexample a super complex, but
(51:25):
it's then it's like it's quitereadable because it's over like
a whole face.
Ben Sutherland (51:29):
So it brings that, I guess, modernist
aesthetic, but bringing somereal gnarly complexity yeah,
another example I was thinkingof is actually another one from
you, gerard, this project thatwe're working on together at the
moment, and we had a hugediscussion.
I was totally against thesesteel eyelids that you really
(51:51):
wanted to put on and I was likethere's no way, there's no way
we're putting these eyelids on.
They're basically like curvedsteel with, like you know, a
little bit of I wouldn't saycall them complex, but a nice
rhythm, and I was against it.
And then I was like, nah, letme model it, let me put it on
there, and now I'm like I can'tsee the building without it.
Sam Brown (52:13):
It's just what was your?
Intricate part to back to thethe loving and hating
ornamentation.
What was your aversion to itlike?
Why did you dislike it to beginwith?
Ben Sutherland (52:24):
because I the the parts where the islands are,
the actual building itself hasset back quite a bit.
And I just wanted it to beginwith because I the the parts
where the eyelids are, theactual building itself is set
back quite a bit and I justwanted it to disappear.
But gerard wanted it to read asone full object and so hence
the eyelids, and now that theeyelids are on there, like, yeah
, 100 agree.
So I don't know, that's justanother example.
(52:45):
I'm actually, I'm actually havebeen not into any kind of
decorative architecture prettymuch my whole career until now.
I'm becoming more yeah, I'mbecoming more and more.
I just think like there's someit's a bit of a lost beauty and
yeah, I see my neighbor outthere spending a week painting
(53:08):
is nice picket fence.
I'm like, okay, well, look, youknow, if there's a bit more you
know beauty and you're you're abit more proud of your, your
buildings, then maybe you'dspend a bit more time looking
after it as well.
I don't know.
Sam Brown (53:23):
So I think for me, like I appreciate ornamentation
and its context and history, butI don't unless it's done
incredibly well, I don't reallylike it.
Now, I don't like eaves.
I find eaves too muchornamentation.
Ben Sutherland (53:40):
Yeah.
I didn't like eaves, but eavesare definitely back in.
For me, that's a good one,actually.
We'll bring that on up in there.
Gerard Dombroski (53:48):
I love a really big eave.
Ben Sutherland (53:50):
Yeah, I love a big eave?
Gerard Dombroski (53:52):
I don't think I like any medium-sized eaves,
but I really like no eave orreally big eave.
Ben Sutherland (54:01):
Have you owned a house without an eave?
It kind of scares me.
Sam Brown (54:04):
My last house had no eaves and I was like, ah, it's
impervious, it kind of scares me.
Ben Sutherland (54:06):
My last house had no eaves and I was like, ah,
it's impervious, it'simpervious.
But, when you get really badrain, there's just something
like a little bit satisfyingabout a roof that actually just
kicks the water right off yourwalls.
Sam Brown (54:18):
Ah, you're just being grossy, no no no.
Ben Sutherland (54:23):
It'll probably last an extra 50 years.
So I don't know.
We've got two now.
We've got two.
Where do we stand ondecorations?
I am pro, pro and Sam's no.
Gerard Dombroski (54:39):
I'm no yeah better luck next time.
You are the weakest link and asyour punishment you have to put
ornamentation in your nextproject, all right.
Sam Brown (54:52):
Hate it or love it Eves.
Ben Sutherland (54:53):
Eves somehow slipped in there.
Needs more discussion, but proEves.
Sam Brown (54:58):
Pro.
I'm anti as well.
I'm 0-2.
Damn, it'd be boring if weagreed on all of these.
Gerard Dombroski (55:09):
That's great.
Just to dig into the eavesquickly, I think eaves without
spouting is awesome, like if youdeal with your rainwater at the
ground, gravel trap orsomething Zunthor's serpentine,
the photos of it in the rain,where it's like square waterfall
.
It's like just like squarewaterfall.
Where it's like all buckingdown.
(55:29):
It's just just moody.
Ben Sutherland (55:32):
You wouldn't want it somewhere where you're
walking under, but the vibes,it's like a fireplace nice nice,
oh well, that's, that's goodpod, yeah, and I'm looking
forward to hearing some resultsabout what the audience thinks
are pro decorations or pro eaves.
We'll find out.
Sam Brown (55:54):
All right Is that the pod.
Catch you next time.
Ka-chow Ka-chow, ka-chowKa-chow.
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