The Narrative Power: Architecture & Film, Take Two

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What if a building could be more than an object on a pedestal and instead feel like a living character on screen? We sit down with two architectural filmmakers, Nikolas Struger from ravens At Odds and Veeral Patel who show how to move beyond glossy hero shots and capture the heartbeat of design: process, people, and emotion. From software and cycling photography to architecture practice and brand strategy, their varied paths lead to the same conclusion—storytelling is the missing bridge between architects, clients, and the public.

We unpack the craft behind compelling architectural film, starting with strategy. Short, vertical cutdowns can spark curiosity and build trust, while longer pieces on your site deliver depth and nuance. Preproduction is everything: treatments to align on tone and references, storyboards that map scenes to sun paths and locations, and schedules that protect the moments you can’t fake. On set, preparation meets improvisation as documentary instincts catch the unplanned gestures that make a space feel alive.

This conversation goes beyond formats to focus on value. Forget chasing view counts. Strong films create social proof, clarify process, and strengthen pitches by reducing perceived risk. We discuss budget tiers, when to choose interviews over pure visuals, and how music, sound design, or even silence can carry narrative. Nik and Veeral share examples of process-driven edits, client-led arcs, and long-form projects that track a home through years of delays, decisions, and everyday life—proof that architecture resonates most when it reflects human stakes.

If you’re tired of slick reels that say little, you’ll find practical guidance on planning light, collaborating with crews, and structuring stories that audiences remember. Subscribe, share with a colleague who needs a narrative upgrade, and leave a review telling us: which project in your world deserves a film—and why?

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Mum mummy, it's windy out there.

(00:01):
Time to settle down with a tastydrop.
Limited Release 34 is a Europeanstyle pilsner brewed with German
Pilsner malt, including Italianground barley, and a blend of
German and Czech hops.
In the modern Italian style,this bear is also lightly hot,
bringing yuzu, red berry, andsubtle spice notes to complement
the bready malt character andsnappy bitterness.

(00:22):
Bello.
Take two.
We're back, chatting about theplace of film and architecture.
After our last episode withSimon and Claire, we had heaps
of feedback and some interestfrom a couple of architectural
filmmakers from across theditch.

(00:42):
This episode, Veral Patal, akaMr.
Verrell, and Nicholas Strugerfrom Ravens at Odds join us to
unpack how film can deepen ourunderstanding and relationship
to architecture.
Thoroughly enjoy this chat andthe opportunity to dive a little
bit deeper into a topic,especially with a different
lens.
Let's dive back in.

(01:25):
Both of you guys um wrote inlast time saying great chat, but
we want to kind of continuethings and look at it from a
probably more of a filmmaker'slens and maybe even a longer
format lens.
So for those out there thatdon't know your work, um, do you
guys want to quickly give uh abrief introduction to yourselves
before we jump into the chat?

SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
Hi, um so I'm a Melbourne-based photographer and
filmmaker.
So my original background was insoftware engineering and had a
midlife crisis, changed careers,took up cycling photography.
From that, I met a bunch ofarchitects who started feeding
me a lot of work inarchitecture.
And I sort of moved fromshooting bike races in Europe to

(02:04):
shooting architecture inMelbourne.
And because of COVID, I decidedto pick up filmmaking.
And that has been a veryinteresting career transition in
my arc because it's it hasallowed me to learn a whole heap
of new heap of new skills andthe way you approach creativity
as well.

SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
Shooting bikes into shooting architecture seems
quite a common jump.
I feel like Simon David mighthave done the same.
And we've got a friend who weboth, Gerrard and I went to
university with Logan Sweeney,who um well he kind of did
architecture and now shoots skijumping and cycling.
But I don't know why they seemintrinsically involved, but they
seem to be.

SPEAKER_00 (02:42):
I'm a former cyclist as well, so yeah, it all checks
it out.
Um but yeah, so I I'm a formerarchitect turn architectural
filmmaker, I guess.
So I run a production andbranding company called Ravens
at Odds here in Brisbane.
Um and we're working like dayin, day out within the
architecture industry.
But I guess I kind of I startedin architecture and then I

(03:05):
jumped out, moved around theworld, did a whole bunch of
different things, exploreddifferent interests from graphic
design to music production, webdesign, marketing, live sound,
probably farming or something aswell when I was living overseas,
all sorts of different thingskind of, you know, in that in
that arc of kind of figuring outwhat you want to do when you
grow up.
Um and at some point along theway, kind of came back to

(03:27):
architectural practice, but notas an architect, working in more
of a production and andcommunications role.
At some point I had this ideathat I wanted to make films
about architecture, which Iguess was a way to pull in a
whole lot of interests andinfluences that I had
personally, but to bring it backinto the profession that I was
passionate about and so heavilyinvolved in throughout my life.

(03:48):
And yeah, since since 2020 havebeen making full uh making films
full-time about architecture.
Awesome.
How long were you practicing?
Probably not as long as I couldhave.
Um I I practiced throughout myundergrad and masters and then
worked for about probably fouror five years after that, before
kind of taking off overseas, andthen I came back to practice for

(04:11):
about five years, but not thatwas not as an architect at that
point, as I was saying.
But I've been throughout thatperiod, I've been working
adjacent to architecture thewhole time.
So it's something I kind of loveand understand.

SPEAKER_03 (04:23):
Yeah, yeah, that perspective would help a lot,
wouldn't it?
I wonder if a lot of it is issome of what you do sort of in
response to things that raisedwhilst whilst you were
practicing?
Maybe things weren't beingpresented in a way that you
thought they could or something.

SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
Yeah, definitely.
I think I think I formed a wholelot of ideas whilst I was in
practice, either as an architector as a whatever other role I
had, particularly aroundcommunication and storytelling.
And that that was probably a arealization that I came to quite
recently.
Was that at the core, that's thething that I'm quite interested
in is telling stories, whetherthat's like a a bigger, kind of,
you know, more encompassingthing about architecture and the

(05:06):
world and life, or whether it'sa, I suppose, a more commercial
thing of just kind of helpinghelping a brand or a practice
communicate their story or theirethos or something.
But I've kind of looked back onmy career across different
fields and been able to see thatthat's the common thread,
whether it's telling storiesthrough graphic design or
through text or websites orwhatever.

(05:28):
That's always that thread that'sbeen there.
So that I guess that's a thingthat interests me quite a lot.
And it's a thing that's like soso intimately entwined with
filmmaking.

SPEAKER_02 (05:36):
Interesting.
Reading both your guys' sort ofbios, I did a little bit of
research, you know, went all proon this.
But you're both you both reallyhighlight that, you know, the
narrative side um in the workthat you do.
And it's interesting that youboth have come to this, not
later in life, I'm not sayingthat you guys are old, but it
wasn't like first-stop careerpoint of view, and you kind of

(05:58):
both have look, you know, comeat it from different
perspectives, but obviously withthat narrative in focus.
And Gerard, like what you wereseeing was Nick's response to
moving into film reaction, Iguess, to not issues, but maybe
shortcomings within theindustry.
Do you feel that we asarchitects or the architectural
community don't portray thenarrative that well?

(06:22):
Because I always find as adesigner, while you're
designing, you're generating anarrative in your head, right?
You what your building needs itto be successful ultimately.
But then there's almost adisconnect of what you imagine
and maybe what you try andencourage your clients or then
the way that they use thebuilding to do.
And then the general public'sabsorption of that or their own

(06:42):
use.
Is that something that you arelooking to bridge that gap?

SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Yeah, I think there's I think there's a lot of
things to unpick there.
Um because there's those thosenarrative ideas probably across
a whole series of domains withinarchitecture.
Definitely I I've seen thingsthat we probably don't do well
enough as a profession and couldget better at, and that's one of
the things that I'm kind ofinterested in doing whilst
working with practices.
But we, yeah, we I think wequite often we don't communicate

(07:10):
a whole range of differentthings in the right way to the
right people.
I think too often we're thinkingabout architects communicating
with architects, and likethere's that disconnect between
architect and client orarchitect and general public.
And I think that, you know, likeif if we get that right, there's
a whole lot of benefits.
There's commercial benefits toyour practice, but there's

(07:31):
industry and professionalbenefits and you know, much more
far-reaching benefits tocommunities and and things as
well.
So yeah, they're there we couldwe could dive into each one of
those things, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 (07:42):
Yeah.
We're pretty good at preachingto the choir, aren't we,
architects?

SPEAKER_02 (07:46):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I was about to saylike that architect-to-architect
thing is almost a reason why westarted the podcast in a way, is
because so much of this contentthat we as architects create and
all of the publications, awardsystems, and everything that we
like really strive to achieve inor, you know, be recognized in
are essentially just a clientcircle jerk.

(08:08):
We're not promoting it that wellto the general public.
And it's how do you like how dowe change that in a way?
And it sounds like you guys arelooking at mechanisms to do so,
which is really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (08:21):
I don't think there's anything wrong with like
architects talking toarchitects.
We've got to have that kind ofbasis in the profession.
There's, you know, there'sthere's other things as well.

SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Yeah, I think it's just yeah, but we can obviously
talk to each other and thatconversation's really important.
But when it's like totallyinsular, then it then it
besides, I think it starts tobecome not necessarily a
problem, but we kind of getcaught in our own world far too
much.
And when ultimately the peoplethat we're looking to serve is
everybody, not ourselves.
Yeah, lots of buzzwords.

SPEAKER_03 (08:51):
What's how do you sort of see film, longer form
film sort of helping helpingcommunicate this architectural
void between architects and theworld?

SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
Nick comes from an architectural background, so you
know he can sort of understandboth rounds really well, but I
come from more from a creativeperspective.
So for me, the way I sort of seephotography, like film over
photography, is that that youcan show the process a lot more
clearly.
So, for example, I had worked ona project with a studio last

(09:26):
year, and it was just a smallfit out, but there were just so
many things happening, this fitout, that the video just
captured it so well.
And it was an interview with thelead interior designer, but you
know, you can actually sandwichin not the drawings, but just
showing what the process lookedlike during construction and
showing that together with thefinished with the finished

(09:48):
product, right?

SPEAKER_02 (09:49):
It's interesting that you're capturing the
process because I think that'ssomething we touched on very,
very briefly in that lastconversation was we seem to we
really champion that finishedproduct, but there doesn't seem
to be a lot of content withinthe process, and actually almost
the richer content is theprocess, you know, and that's
that's where the deepunderstanding comes from.
So is that something that youlook to do with a lot of your
work, or is that just a one-offcase?

SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
I know I'll I'll look at doing that as well, but
it's like how you tie everythingtogether, right?
So at the moment, like the theissue I face is with these, what
do you call these contentproducers?
They run into a building sidejust, you know, with a gimbal
and they quickly show what'shappening, but you don't get to
really understand what'sactually happening.

(10:32):
So you have a drone flyover andall these things, and it's just
very flashy.
And what is it that you'retrying to show to the end user
who's gonna commission you toeither design and build your
space?
And it just becomes veryflamboyant and it's just not
addressing what architecture isall about and how an architect
and a builder work together.

SPEAKER_03 (10:52):
How's that sort of worked out, perhaps in that
previous project you're talkingabout?
How did you come to thatconclusion?
Because that kind of requiresyou to be early in on the
project as opposed to a lot ofthe film about projects is very
post-rationalize.
It's here, we've got this nicebuilding.

SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
Was that the client coming to you wanting that early
the whole narrative, or was thatyou going to So initially, okay,
so for this particular project,like the client was made for
studio, like a small studio,they're very highly nimble.
And they said, look, we want tocapture some of the process of
what's happening on site just toupdate as to what this project
is doing.
And then they wanted an endvideo just to show the project.

(11:32):
Because the space was so small,it was hard to kind of show the
end product in nine, in like totake up the full 90 seconds that
we had allowed.
So that's why sandwiching in theprocess, drawings, an interview,
and showing.
You can do that reallyeffectively in 90 seconds.
And the thing is, you've and ifyou're gonna use it on
Instagram, you can't show longform content, right?

(11:55):
Like you gotta either take themto your own website and host it
and show that.
But on Instagram, short formalways wins.
And the speed of it wins aswell, like how you put
everything together.
If it's gonna be slow and drawnout, you're gonna lose
viewership.

SPEAKER_02 (12:10):
Is that something I mean that that you can already
see the conversation starts tospread, right?
The social media aspect of it.
I mean, is that something thatyou guys still look to target?
Or do you feel that that it'snot a rich enough, or there's
not enough time, like you said,to actually tell a proper story
within that format and you'reactually trying to maybe give
people a taste, but pull themto, whether it be a Vimeo

(12:33):
channel or YouTube or your ownwebsite, like you said.
But is that the goal or is thegoal to cover all bases?

SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
From my experience, the goal has been to cover all
bases, right?
And definitely you can create umlike a what do you call a cut
down of your video share onInstagram just to gauge the
interest and to show theinterest and to show what's
coming along the pipeline andthen take them to your website.
But it's just like how do you gofrom Instagram to your website,
right?
That's always a challengebecause you can't click links on

(13:01):
your Instagram app.

SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
Yeah.
That's they're pretty muchthey're pretty disconnected,
really, which we've found.
I mean, and Nick, you probablyknow this from like your brand
the brand side of things.
They're all but completely twodifferent entities, really, and
you have to treat them as such.
And that's why that the filmthing is, I guess, and and why
we're having this conversation,such a broad topic, because I
think when we think of film, weprobably think of clips, short,

(13:27):
like six seconds, 90 secondsbeing probably long format in
the social media aspect, andthen nothing in between to maybe
like a local project, 10 to 15minute project overview, to
almost nothing beyond that barfeature films, which often are
not about a building and oftenmore about an architect or an

(13:48):
architect's body of work orsomething.
Do you find that there is scopeand is that an interest in you
guys to try and maybe fill thosethose time voids between those
sort of three key aspects, or doyou think that that's enough
that Canvas isn't?
I guess what I'm trying to leadto is why is there not like a
20-minute, you know, half-hourTV show series, not in the vein

(14:10):
of grand designs, that focusesmore on architecture?
Because I imagine it'll be good,it'll be good viewing.

SPEAKER_00 (14:16):
I think maybe architecture is such a such a
niche thing in a way that theremay not be viewership for that.
And maybe that's why GrandDesigns is popular, because it
is kind of dramatized and it itis targeting more of a broad
audience.
I mean, I think they're I thinkthey're I think you could
probably find a an architecturalfilm in lengths from 15 seconds

(14:40):
all the way through to an hourand a half in five-minute
increments.
There'd be something, you know,across the whole span.
But whether there's a lot, it'strue what you're saying.
It's like there's the short formstuff, there's that medium kind
of five to ten minute stuff, andthen there's like full-length
features, which is kind of adifferent thing again.
I don't know.
I mean, you could probably youcould probably argue the same is
for kind of any industry thatengages with film as well.

(15:03):
I think it's just to do withlike what people are how people
are engaging with thosedifferent formats.
I guess what what I do as afilmmaker and what I do as a as
a designer or contentstrategist, there's crossover,
but they're they're two kind ofdifferent things as well.
So with a filmmaking hat on, youknow, I'm thinking about story

(15:23):
and narrative, and I'm thinkingabout how like the pacing of a
film and how long it's going tobe and how much we're trying to
get in there.
But from a kind of contentstrategy point of view, there's
there's probably a few differentthings to consider there.
For me, it's really aboutgetting someone to watch the
15-second clip so that they cango to the website and watch the
10-minute clip because mostpeople don't do that.
Most people are on social mediascrolling, they want the quick

(15:45):
dopamine hit, and that's fine.
And I'm totally happy to engagewith that.
Like, I love doing 15, 20,25-second cutdowns.
Like, I love everything invertical as well.
Like, I don't see it as anassault on my artistic process
or anything like that.
It's just a it's just anotherformat, it's another way to tell
a story.
It's gonna have a slightlydifferent lens, it's gonna have

(16:06):
a different purpose, but they'reall purposeful, they all serve a
purpose.
From a kind of content ormarketing point of view, I guess
it's like what we're doing onsocial media quite often is is
building social proof and trustand brand recognition for
practices and and companies.
That can kind of sit separatelyto somebody watching a longer
film.

(16:27):
Like not everyone's gonna clickoff and go and see the longer
one, but maybe there's a clientwho's quite interested in your
work, someone that's you knowconsidering commissioning you,
and they're gonna move from yourInstagram to your website and
start doing a deeper dive, andthat's when they'll uncover the
longer things, and that's whenthat you know they can take the
time and understand who thearchitect is, what the

(16:48):
building's about, what theprocess is like a little bit
deeper.
I don't feel like the contentneeds to kind of bridge every
gap and get every viewer towatch every length.
But I think, yeah, I think thethe longer format stuff is is
certainly interesting.
Um again, it's probably a it'sprobably a different target
audience, though.
Not every single person that'sscrolling on Instagram is going

(17:09):
to want to watch an hour and ahalf long film about
architecture.

SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
You touched on enjoying making the short stuff,
but do you have a preference forlength that you that you work
with?
Like is there a do you feel likethere's a sweet spot for being
able to really capture theessence of a project?
Or you've already alluded to,you can kind of cover the basis
in a myriad of ways.

SPEAKER_00 (17:31):
Yeah, I I think it I think it depends what the story
is, what you're trying toactually document or convey.
If it's a if it's a snippet of aproject, like yeah, 15 seconds
can deal with, you know, oneaspect of the space perhaps, or
even just a very quick overview.
If it's more of like a brandstory, something that's more
involved, or like a really bigproject that had a whole series
of moving parts and differentparties, and you know, then then

(17:54):
probably a longer format thingwith interviews probably works
better.
But I think it really comes downto what you're trying to do with
the content, who who you'retalking to, um, and then what
the what the idea of like thatparticular story is really.
So I don't think there's I don'tthink there's necessarily a
sweet spot.
There's lots of kind of bestpractice standards that we

(18:15):
always draw on when we're goinginto these productions with
clients, and we always, youknow, advise them what we think
works best and what's going tosuit their project or their
idea, whatever it is best.
Um but I think it changes fromfrom production to production.

SPEAKER_02 (18:27):
You are you guys going in, you know, commissioned
by a client architect, whoeverare you guys making
storyboarding, planning thisthing quite thoroughly?
Is you know, kind of continuingon from that conversation, the
last conversation where a lot ofthe moments were captured at the
time, you know, or likesomething caught somebody's eye
and they and they captured it inthat moment, is that something

(18:49):
that you guys do more of, or areyou more focusing on this is the
building that we're going tocapture, this is the narrative,
or this is the story we'retrying to tell, and creating a
bit more of a framework to beable to deliver that?

SPEAKER_01 (18:59):
So I mean I would say for me, I'm thoroughly
prepared for that.
So that's just part of theprocess.
And when I talk to a client whowants to commission me, like I
try and scope out what theproject is, what is trying to
what they're trying to achieve.
And from that, I will suggest anidea of what the project, the
video film should be basedaround.

(19:20):
And then to get their buy-in,like storyboarding and creating
what we call a treatmentdocument where you outline,
okay, what the visual imagerywill look like, where are your
references coming from, what isthe editing style, what is the
color grade style, what is thesound design, what is the music
reference going to be?
Like when you encapsulate allthis in a document, you gotta

(19:41):
give your client some confidencein you that you'll be you'll be
delivering an uh agreed uponvision.
Right.
And like from that storyboard,you can then dissect, okay, if
it's gonna be a multi-day shoot,then how do you schedule out
your shoot days as well?
And you know, what time of theday you're gonna shoot, what
part of the building.

SPEAKER_03 (20:00):
So how do you go about like how do you go about
developing that sort of initialstory for your storyboard?
Can you a few tips through alittle window into a world?

SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Like for me, I do a lot of side visits.

unknown (20:14):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (20:14):
And so I'll be architect like what they're
trying to convey, or I don'tknow.

SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
I just can just talk about for some of my previous
projects, right?
So the last big project I shotwas called International.
It was designed by Carr, and Iwas commissioned by two
developers, Landrim and VLeader.
So, I mean, Landrim was the keyclient I was dealing interfacing
with, and they just gave me aset of requirements they wanted

(20:39):
to capture it, and they knewfrom another agency about how I
work, and they knew they weregonna get something creative out
of me.
Not your, you know, your cookiecut of thing.
And I sort of looked at somereferences I get my inspiration
from.
And it was just a matter ofgoing to the site, seeing the
apartment we're gonna beshooting inside, and then seeing

(21:01):
what's around the apartment interms of, say, amenities, and
deciding that, okay, for me, theway I like to create my visuals,
it has to be either late in theevening or early in the morning.
I don't do a lot of midday shotsum because I just want the
quality of light um that needsto be uh really manageable.
Like I don't like a lot ofbright light in my work because

(21:24):
it just sort of when it comes toso say editing it, it I I want
to have enough data in myfootage to for the images to
look beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 (21:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (21:36):
Golden hour.
So yeah, golden hour, earlymorning, midday, and then you
know, and then like for thatparticular project, I had a a
gaffer who will who's a lightingguy who will come and we had to
scrim out all the windows in thefirst thing in the morning.
And and for that, you need so heneeds information from me, what
the sh what shot we're doing andhow is it gonna be looking like.

(21:59):
So I'm already dialed in beforegoing in that for this
particular shot, we need I needthis light to be here.
I need, you know, you need toblack out these windows for me
and do all that.
So I know what the shot willlook like.
So there's just a lot ofenvisioning.
Like I have to envision my headwhat the shot is gonna look
like.
And you know, when you have say25 shots to capture in a day,

(22:22):
and you've got a whole teamwaiting on you, you need to be
fairly dialed in, very dialedin.
It's a lot more involved than I.

SPEAKER_03 (22:32):
Yeah, I feel like it's way more extreme than just
a photography project if you'recoming in with a narrative and a
shot list.

SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
It is, right?
But the thing is, it's it's atthe end of the day, it's your
brain and your project.
And who you engage matters,right?
And for me, I'm not I'm notsomeone who's gonna go, oh hairy
fairy, it's just whatever comes,I'll shoot, because it's just
uncomfortable.
And you look like a run intosome idiot.
Yeah, because then there'snothing cohesive.
So, like for that project, I hadlike a full post-production team

(23:03):
working with me as well.
So I had a colorist, a sounddesigner, and a composer.
So, you know, they need somepre-warning as to what I'm
achieving and they needinformation as well.
So having everything dialed in,it makes their life easier as
well.

SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
It's interesting, and this is very much a film
thing, I think.
You know, filmmakers very muchhave a maybe, maybe it's all
visual art to be fair.
Everyone has a style.
And I kind of see, you know, theway that you're already speaking
for Al is like you have a verydistinct style.
And I've seen your work and youdo have a very distinct style.
And I assume people that come toyou for your style, is there any

(23:40):
instances where the building orthe architecture doesn't feel
like it would suit your style?
Because I always feel like therecould be sometimes a disconnect
there, you know?

SPEAKER_01 (23:50):
I mean, look, sometimes things aren't ready in
a building, too.
Yeah.
You've got to work around it.
Yeah.
You know, and there are timeswhere, like for this particular,
I had to come back because thefireplace wasn't ready when we
were shooting.
And I needed in the lobby areathe fire to be glowing because
that was all part of the storyas well.
Yeah, interesting.
So I had to come back at aseparate day without my crew and

(24:12):
just, you know, eyeball theimage in.
And then hopefully in post theycan fix it.

SPEAKER_02 (24:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Nick, do you work with asimilarly scaled team?
Like that kind of blows my mindthat I mean and and it makes
sense.
That's the big production andthe stuff that you guys,
particularly when and I assumeVarral, what you're talking to
is a longer format pace.
Yeah, you're not gonna have thatsize team for 90 seconds, are
you?
90 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
I always do 90 seconds, yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's it's it'sjust it works, right?
Yeah.
And the thing was, like, I onlyhad two days to shoot everything
in.
And if I had more time, thensure, I uh you know, I'd love to
do something a bit longer.
But it's about uh what do youcall the attention span?

SPEAKER_02 (24:58):
That's your golden that's that's your golden time
stamp, 90 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
90 seconds, that's all I all I work towards.
And when you look at all the bigads, it's all 90 seconds.

SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Yeah, I suppose my my process is a little bit more
varied between productions.
Um I would say that I'm preparedto the teeth every production.
Like I don't do anything withoutpreparation, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that everyproduction, every single shop is
is planned out.
Some some productions are, butothers there's a lot of run and
gum.

(25:28):
A lot of my influence comes fromdocumentary filmmaking, and I'm
quite comfortable rocking up andlike approaching it like a
documentarian and kind ofworking out what's there, but
that doesn't suit everyproduction, so it depends what
it is.
So, I mean we we do a lot ofshort form content, like also
bringing in the process of thesethings.

(25:48):
So we're doing a lot of stuffwith builders, architectural
builders, um, where we'reactually documenting their
construction sites, and thatstuff is me rocking up with a
handheld camera and movingaround and just capturing it in
a couple of hours, working withnatural light, no, no real
direction, no storyboardingwhatsoever.
Um but that's a much smaller,like smaller budget, quick

(26:11):
turnaround kind of thing, versusmuch more involved brand
campaign films.
One that I did recently up theSunshine Coast, which was a
obviously a much bigger budget,but also a lot more planning,
kind of like probably six monthswent into that before we
actually got onto site.
And that involved doing atreatment, doing a storyboard,
working out what all thedifferent scenes were gonna be,

(26:32):
coordinating with I think sixdifferent talent, and then
basically putting that into aGoogle Sheet, which was ordered
by sequence based on thestoryboard, but then could be
reordered based on shootingsequence because I knew that I
wasn't gonna shoot it insequence of the of the it was
gonna have to be out of sequencebecause there's so many
different things to consider.

(26:53):
Locate like I think there werelike five or six different
locations.
There was some some stuff wewere shooting on a boat, other
stuff we were like trail runningthrough the national park with
cameras and lighting and doingthings.
There was like several differentdays at a house with different
groups of talent.
It was a project that I knewintimately that I've filmed
probably four or five times overthe last five years, so I knew

(27:14):
exactly where the sun came in atevery moment.
Like I knew exactly which spaceswould work at different times of
day.
So I was able to plan out, well,we're doing this thing down by
the spa, and that's gonna haveto be at this time.
We're gonna be in this roominside, but I want to make sure
that the outside's not blownout, so I knew that that was
gonna be at a certain time.
So it's like managing all thesedifferent things, and then I

(27:36):
could, it was a it was a task initself just putting the schedule
together because I could I couldre-order the spreadsheet based
on sequence, like video sequenceor shooting sequence.
And so it's managing all thosedifferent things.
So, you know, that's not thekind of thing you can just rock
up and do, especially whenyou've got all this talent and
crew as well, because I hadabout three or four people with

(27:59):
me for the production of thatone.
Um that's not the kind of thingyou can just rock up and just
kind of wing it on the day.
But that said, there's there'salways improvisation.
So even on a even on aproduction where I have a full
storyboard and and a scheduledown to 15-minute blocks, things
never go to plan.

(28:20):
Like there's always going to beswapping things around because
something happens, someone'slate, or the light looks better
here, or you know, you seesomething, you see something
happening on site that you wantto capture and you want to adapt
and be flexible with it.

SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
Do you often get happy mistakes through that
mechanism?

SPEAKER_00 (28:35):
All the time.
That's the beauty and the fun ofit.
Like you're prepared with aschedule, you know exactly what
you're gonna do, but you've alsogot to be prepared to be totally
unprepared and just like toreact to what's going on there.
Because yeah, there's there'salways stuff that you can't plan
for.

SPEAKER_03 (28:51):
Yeah, I love that.
So these things soundmonumental, just trying to think
like how how many architecturefirms are in a position to sort
of commission something likethat.

SPEAKER_02 (29:04):
Or is it more developers and clients that are
driving that are driving this?
I mean, maybe we're just a bitsmall time, but no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 (29:13):
Look, I think um yeah, like there's there's some
really big budget stuff that umlike sure, it's it's it's a lot
more expensive than aphotography production, but
that's not to say that everyarchitectural practice should
invest 20, 30, 40 grand in in avideo.
Like quite often I would talkpeople out of doing that because
it's it may not actually benecessary for what they're

(29:34):
trying to achieve.
Um it it comes down to thepractice that you're working
with, what what the intention ofthis the video campaign is.
Quite often it's it's maybeother brands or organizations,
maybe developers as well, thatare putting a bit more money
into it.
But but I've also hadarchitectural practices, even
small ones, I decide that it isworth spending the money on

(29:54):
something because it it's aparticularly important project,
something that they've put a lotof time into.
And they want it done well orthey want it done in a way
that's not just the kind of scookie cutter thing that most
content producers would turn upand do.
So, you know, they want it theywant the nuance of the project
captured, they want the feelingof the project captured, the
experience of the project.

(30:14):
Um and that sometimes does takea bit more time.

SPEAKER_03 (30:18):
Maybe it's in New Zealand, but I feel like a lot
of myself included, we probablyundervalue the strength of
marketing and the buying powerof spending, actually investing
in good photos.
But I mean film I think clearlyworks a lot more effectively at
spreading a message thanphotographs.

SPEAKER_00 (30:40):
Both are important, they both do different things.

SPEAKER_02 (30:43):
In New Zealand, I'd say that we are we don't, from
an architectural professionpoint of view, like we don't
embrace film enough, I wouldsay.
Like I can't think of manyarchitectural practices of any
scale really that regularly havefilms produced for their work at
all.
Whereas I feel like a YouTubechannel?
Yeah, internationally.

(31:05):
You didn't there, yeah.
And Gerard Dombrowski, numberone.
Whereas internationally, I feellike it's a little bit more
prevalent.
Would you guys agree?
I mean, I I don't know if you'vedone much work here versus just
in Australia or internationally,but I I feel it's maybe a
shortcoming from our professionhere is that we don't maybe
don't value or don't recognizethe value in film as much as we
probably should.
And I think that's somethingthat I was trying to tease out

(31:28):
in the last conversation was Ifeel like that that shift has
happened and we're maybe towingthe line a little bit on it.

SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
I feel like Viril's foaming at the bit for something
to say, so I'll let him Yeah,man.

SPEAKER_01 (31:39):
So you know, you know, you know, I'll tell you
this.
Back in 2018, I came to Aucklandand actually caught up with
Andrew Mitchell from PatersonAssociates.
And they were talking about Iwanted to come and shoot because
they did really beautiful work,and I really wanted to come and
shoot one of their projects.
And we started talking aboutvideo work, and he he he wasn't
one of the first iClics toactually encourage me to get
into video.

SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
Oh, there you go.
So the thing is that Did heshoot any did he get you to
shoot any video though?
No, I don't know.
Oh, there you go.
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SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
But the thing is, like what I tell my clients is
that okay, I mean, like for me,I can photograph architecture
really well and I can shootvideos.
I can do both, but I can't doboth in one day.
It's just it's just impossible,right?
So why compromise your projects?
You know, either you go forspectacular or you go for
mediocre.
And if you've sp if you sell thedrain view.

(33:07):
It is the truth, but like thething is like when I'm on photo
shoots, it's just balls to thewall, you it's full gas.
You can't even think about, oh,uh, there's a light changing
here, let's just, you know,let's just get the curtain
blowing.
It's like no time, you justgotta you know, like and like
some of the architectural shootsI've been on, you know, you
finish one room, the stylestylist assistant is packing

(33:29):
everything up because thetruck's gonna come in the
afternoon and pick everything upand off it goes back to the
showroom.

SPEAKER_03 (33:33):
Further further, our chat with Lisa where she said
she had amazing uh reception toa video that NZIA did on her,
which was was it about aparticular project?
I think it was 90 seconds.
And I feel like those videosthat are quite engaging and have
real narrative.
I just I just think a story isking.

(33:55):
And the the more you can bring astory into thing, the more
people love it.
That's why I'm super into thatidea, Vero, of you getting on
the construction site andshowing footage from
construction and all the waythrough.
Like if you could have theselittle micro, your 90-second
little construction through tocompletion, like I think it's
captivating to watch.

(34:15):
Sit there staring at yourscreen, scrolling, and then
you're singing construction,bam, bam, bam, finished.
That must be like a pretty epicthing to see.

SPEAKER_01 (34:25):
The way I sort of say story can take many forms,
right?
Like you can do the clientprocess thing, or one of the so
quite a number of years ago,like back in 2021, like Milan
Design Week normally happens inApril.
And actually, and that yeah, Ithink I believe it happened in
September, October, because ofall the lockdown issues.
So Molteni Dada, one of the topItalian furniture makers, they

(34:48):
released a video called a shortfilm called White Note, 17
minutes long, and their productstook a backstage.
Right.
And when I saw that, it was justabout this woman.
She was at a junction in herlife, she was getting ready to
pick up an award that evening,and she gets an envelope, and an
envelope was a tape, and ittriggered her former life, a

(35:13):
former lover.
And it was just a really niceway to show her dilemma with the
furniture, and the furniturejust plays second fiddle.
Like that's another way ofstorytelling about island
reality.
Yeah, and you know, this issomething I would love to do in
architecture.
And recently I had a chance todo something not similar to

(35:34):
that, but there was anotherreally amazing video done by
Nyanus a few years ago called Ithink it had the word bookworm
in it.
And it was just fascinating tosee snippets of a house with
people reading books, right?
And a couple of months ago, thisarchitect who lives around the
corner from me, she is justworking on a house for this
70-year-old woman.
She designed her a two-bedroomhouse made from rammed earth.

(35:57):
And I got on site and I met theclient, and she has traveled all
over the world, right?
And this design was influencedby her travels.
And she is an avid book reader,and the amount of shelving the
architecture design in the housewas unbelievable.
And as she spoke to me, and Ijust remembered, you know, like,
and she was talking about thiscentral courtyard, and she

(36:17):
wanted this courtyard because itreminded of a garden she walked
through in Kyoto.
Now, so you imagine, right?
Like you're you can show herwalking across a courtyard and a
flashback to a Japanese, youknow, a garden in Kyoto.
And I think that's like that'sanother form of storytelling.
And what I wanted to do withthat one was for her not to talk
about how the house makes herfeel, but talk about her travels
and how it has influenced thehouse, but not mentioned the

(36:40):
architecture in any shape orform.

SPEAKER_02 (36:43):
It's an interesting mechanism.
I like that approach where it'smore about the client because
the architecture is a responseto them and their life and their
brief and their needs.
And oftentimes we focus too muchon the built form and not the
story.
It is interesting though,because I was looking at some of
you guys' films as well, but alot of the time it is focused on

(37:05):
the built form and you know, thethe building is the building's
creating the narrative and bethat paired with a soundtrack.
Do you have a preference or doyou think it's just a
case-by-case thing where whetheryou have maybe a speaking track
over the top or the way that youform the story, I mean probably
or at least the stuff that I waslooking at, you tend more to the
to the sort of audio, audio dubrather sorry, like um music dub

(37:29):
rather than actual storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 (37:32):
That was one of the things that I think was missed
in the last discussion, if thisis the part two to the to the
part one, that this idea ofstorytelling and narrative being
limited to something wherethere's somebody speaking,
something textual, which I justI disagree with fundamentally
very one-dimensional.
Well, it's just na narrative isinherent in so many things.

(37:52):
Narrative and storytellingdoesn't come down to somebody
speaking about something.
So there's visual storytelling,like you know, a painting tells
a story, graphic design tellsstories, music, listening to
music, like that's that's astory as well, like whether it's
instrumental or vocal, andwhether it's music in another
language that you can't evenunderstand, there's still
feelings and emotions and thingsthat evoke ideas and responses

(38:14):
in the listener.
I come from a kind of musicalbackground.
I've played in bands for yearsand have recorded and produced
my own albums either on on myown or with other bands.
Um so music's a very music andsound design is a very big thing
for me.
Um I actually wrote my master'sthesis on architecture and music
or architecture and sound.
That's a whole nother thing.

(38:36):
But yeah, like music and soundis is always a big thing.
But I think it's again, it comesdown to the production.
So I did the film about a yearago with some friends, Red Hill
House and Studio for Zusannahand Nicholas Architects.
Um and Nick and I had a bandyears ago when we were at uni
together.
But in that particular film,he's actually playing guitar.

(38:57):
It starts off as off-screenmusic and then it becomes
on-screen in a certain scene,which is a classic kind of
narrative filmic trick.
Um, there's a scene where heputs on a record and it's one of
his friends' records that areplaying, and that becomes the
overlay music in the scene aswell.
And then, you know, there'sother productions where we don't
use music as at all because weactually just want to focus on
the natural sound or the ambientsound that's going on there.

(39:18):
Yeah, but I think narrative andstorytelling can happen in so
many different ways.
Um, there's a lot of films thatwe do that there are people
talking about a process or anidea, and there's other stuff
where it is just kind of visualwhere the the building itself
kind of becomes a character orthe people using the building
become the characters thateffectively tell the story about
what this place feels like, whatthe day-to-day feels like in a

(39:40):
building.
You know, so there's lots ofdifferent ways that you can tell
stories and lots of differentways to create narrative.

SPEAKER_02 (39:45):
Are you guys driving that decision or is that more
client-driven?
Or like let's let's put thearchitect in the shoes of the
client here in terms of gettingyou guys to make the film.
Are they the ones?
That's one something that I kindof want to dive into.
Are they are we the ones thatare driving that narrative
decision, whether that be thefocus on the building, the focus
on the process, the focus on theclient, what have you, and then

(40:08):
how much say are we having andwhat's being produced versus the
reins being kind of handed overto you guys?

SPEAKER_00 (40:16):
I think it again it's one of these things that
vary from production toproduction.
I I work with a lot of clients,a lot of them repeat clients
that we've worked with over theyears who will come to me and
just say, you tell us what wethink we need, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (40:28):
Do your thing.

SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
Yeah, kind of.
Um, and sometimes there'sclients that say, Well, we want
you to do your thing, but we'rethinking it's gonna be this.
We want to do some interviewsand sit down and talk with the
client.
And or sometimes, you know,you're working on productions
where there's there's absolutelike they're absolutely certain
that they want a particularthing.
So it it varies from productionto production, from client to
client.
What I always try to do though,I guess, is give them some

(40:51):
consultation and suggest what Ithink is gonna work best for
their needs as well.
Because a lot of people seethese kind of let's call them
medium format styles where it'slike a faux documentary where
there's people sitting downtalking about the project,
whether that's architect,client, consultants, you know,
that kind of five to ten minuteformat.
And everyone sees that and it'sit's very popular.
And everyone kind of wants to dothat.

(41:13):
And I quite often get a lot ofclients coming saying, Oh, we we
want to we want a film thatlooks like one of these ones.
And that's great.
Like they're they're beautiful,but they're not always the best
thing for that particularproject or for that client or
for what their intentions are,you know.
That's amazing if you've got aplatform of millions of viewers
that are going to sit down andwatch it and are gonna be

(41:34):
dedicated to watching it.
But that may not always be thecase.
And it's something that I talkabout with my clients when we're
getting into strategy is thatlike numbers, like just chasing
numbers, chasing viewership iskind of the worst way to think
about return on investment of avideo.
There's so many other ways thatwe can actually make a video
work for a practice that hasnothing to do with going viral

(41:58):
or thousands of views.

SPEAKER_02 (41:59):
That answer that answered it perfectly.
What I what I was looking forwas how much, not say, but how
much kind of directive we givethrough the process versus how
much expertise you give back,which I've I always find, not
that I've had video made, butyou always feel when you're
going in photography say youkind of have a depicture in your
head of what the shots might beand things like that.
But ultimately, it's a littlebit of a stick to your lane type

(42:21):
situation.
Yeah, because we often don'tknow.

SPEAKER_03 (42:24):
Ideally, you'd probably pick a filmmaker like
you'd pick an architect.
Ideally.
Exactly.
Go and there is that that doescome into the thing.
All their professional services,and you'd hope they I don't
know, if if you're designing thefilm, there's probably something
going wrong.

SPEAKER_00 (42:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
We can come in with our vision,just the same as you as an
architect could come in withyour vision.
But if you're not collaboratingand working with your client,
you might you might get a greatsculpture that's that fulfills
your own ideas, but it may notbe the thing that fulfills their
needs.
And so I think I think it is aconversation and a
collaboration.

(42:59):
So And if you're looking for ifyou're looking for guidance, I
would say go into it with as asmuch directive as you feel you
want to, or, or as little, likewhatever, whatever kind of feels
right for you, I think.

SPEAKER_02 (43:10):
Do you ever get disappointment when your things
have been chopped on the editingfloor and clients come back and
be like, but what about thatpart?

SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Disappointment from the clients or disappointment?

SPEAKER_02 (43:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Or either either way.
You can't fit everything into avi into a clip, right?
Or a video.

SPEAKER_00 (43:26):
Yeah, that that's right.
There's usually got to be, youknow, some ruthless decisions
that get made at some point.
But I mean that happens bothways.
Not every project, not not everyproduction goes the way that I
want it to go, but it's notabout me and my ego.
Um that's how some sometimes theclient wants a certain thing,
and by sometimes you've got tochalk it up and go, alright.

SPEAKER_03 (43:48):
If we if we push the conversation a little bit
towards longer form, what are wedoing with the the future of or
what do you guys want to do withsort of longer format?
Do you want to do are we are wetalking film architecture
movies?
Next resine film festival.

SPEAKER_01 (44:06):
Look, my I mean, I would love to submit something
to the film festival, right?
And and I would love to dosomething.

SPEAKER_03 (44:11):
Half of them are rubbish, so you'll get in easy.

SPEAKER_01 (44:15):
But like for me, I mean I the way my ideas are
evolving, I need some sort of anarrative on top.
I can't do these plain picturesbecause now what I'm seeing is
every architectural photographerwants to shoot a video and
they're just doing prettypictures.
I can't be competing on thatlevel.

(44:36):
I need to go up.
And having a level ofsophistication, having an idea,
a thread that can support thearchitecture is what I know.
The example I gave with whitenoise was super important.
That's what I liked.
And I would love to createsomething on that level.
Another good example is there'sthis British cycling brand
called Rafa.

(44:56):
Back in the day, they used tojust do this really rough
documentaries, right?
It wasn't it wasn't scripted atall.
And one of my favorite episodeswas when they went, Ben Ingham
went to Italy to um to shoot avideo about a bike builder
called Dario Pecoretti inVeneto.

(45:17):
And it was just following Darioaround his workshop and his home
for a full day, and they madethis into a 15-minute video, and
it was amazing.
Unfiltered, Dario swearing,Dario going get it going off at
his colleagues, and and I wouldlove some ruiness like that,
especially on a building sidebetween an architect and a
builder.

SPEAKER_02 (45:37):
Yeah.
You should get into anarchitecture studio when we get
questions from council orbuilders during the construction
process and how much we cuss.

SPEAKER_00 (45:45):
I might go stand fly, so over the next time
you've got a client meeting ormeeting the next year or
whatever.
Oh, of course.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (45:52):
You would love to be a fly on the wall sometimes.
I get quite opinionated,especially on um architecture
movies.
A lot of the like we we had onelast night.
It was the Schindler SpaceArchitect.
It was a really beautiful story,actually, and guess the story I
didn't know too much about them.
It was very long.
But we go to a lot of thesemovie nights and you especially

(46:12):
the Rasine film ones, just a lotof the old architecture films
just very dry and very boring.
It's like this is a house, andnow we're going to this is
another house, this is anotherhouse, and you just like them.
Whereas I always refer back toIce Cube's celebrate the Eames
little two-minute video whereit's Ice Cube talking about uh

(46:34):
Eams House and just how punchyand direct.
I just think there's there's somany different ways to skin a
cat.
Look at all the vast world offilm we have, and then so much
of architecture film is so dryand lacks any like excitement or
any storyline, any any range ofemotion.

(46:55):
Yeah.
Monotone, how do you bring someemotion or some intrigue and
excitement into film aboutarchitecture?

SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
That that's that's a question I guess that I'm
grappling with at the moment,because I'm I'm working on a
longer format documentary aboutarchitecture, about a particular
building.
So a a friend of mine isdesigning and building his own
house up the Sunshine Coast.
Um and it's something that we'redocumenting like most of the
stages throughout construction.
It's something that I just go upevery now and then, and when

(47:26):
there's a kind of milestone orsomething happening on site
that's particularly special orinteresting or dramatic, yeah,
we go there and and try tocapture it.
And it's something that's goingto evolve over several years
because it's already been a yearof just site works and they're
still just getting posted out ofthe ground.
I think they I think there is acoming on site, you know, maybe
next month.

SPEAKER_03 (47:49):
Like I think so much of the architecture
documentaries arepost-rationalized, so you're
screwing for footage or you'relistening to recordings overlaid
on papers.
Whereas if you're there gettingfootage all the way through,
isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 (48:04):
Well, what what we're trying to do with it as
well is is approach it like youwould typically approach a
documentary too, that we'redocumenting.
But at some point we'll sit backand review the footage and we'll
actually start to think aboutwhat the narrative is and we'll
actually write a script andwe'll then actually pull the
thing together and then work outwhat additional things we need
to film.
And we'll do little interviewswith Tom, the architect, who's

(48:27):
my mate along the way, and andalso his partner, and I guess at
some point their their childwhen he's when he's grown up,
maybe and he's speak at speakingage, I don't know.
Maybe I hope I hope the projectdoesn't take that long.
But it's it's it's it's anamazing project.
I mean, Tom, Tom is a greatfriend of mine and a very
talented and humble person.

(48:49):
And so much of this project,it's it's got himself and his
family in it, and like his wholebackground and and upbringing
and his ethos and approach tolife.
But we've spoken about it, we'vewe've been having these little
discussions along the way, andlike we see it as being
something much more than just anarchitecture documentary or like
a house documentary.

(49:09):
Yeah it's almost like thearchitecture of the house is is
maybe a character, or it's maybea subplot or something, or it's
it's just it's a vehicle fordriving a much broader story,
which is more about life orenvironment or like cities or
how how people, you know,interpersonal relationships or
something, because it'ssomething that's taken many
years for them to get onto site,and now it there's been all

(49:31):
sorts of holdups and delays anddramas on site.
They were living across likefive different locations between
the Gold Coast and SunshineCoast.
Tom had jobs in differentlocations as well.
Um, his partner Alex was livingin Harvey Bay at one point.
They then had a child.
Like there's all this, it's likeit has all the makings for a
dramatic documentary.

(49:52):
But it also has like all of theDNA to tell a much bigger story
there, not just like here's astory about a house and you
know, following it sequentially.

SPEAKER_02 (50:02):
Do you feel the trap of falling into not necessarily
maybe like a grand designs typenarrative?
Is that something that you'reconscious of?

SPEAKER_00 (50:11):
Yeah, it is.
I mean, I used to be prettyscathing of grand designs until
Until you found yourselfwatching all episodes.
Well, I've just I've just had abrain blank.
What's what's the guy's name,the English guy?
Kevin McLeod.
Devin McLeod.
Until I actually learnt abouthim and what he actually does.

(50:32):
Absolutely I was I was thenactually kind of blown away.
And I I think that the firstcouple of seasons of the UK
Grand Designs was I didn't feellike he was pushing pushing back
enough.
And then I think he did insubsequent episodes.
I've never watched theAustralian, I think there's a
New Zealand version as well.
I've I've never watched it andkind of got over it.
I I don't think I don't know.

(50:53):
I think I've probably softened.
I think I've probably dropped mylike removed my ego from it a
little bit.
I don't think that Grand Designsis inherently bad.
Like, yes, it's dramatic.
It's prime time television.
That's what that's for.
You know, it's not it's notmeant to be like uh a chronicle
of, you know, architecturalprojects.
Like that's not what it is.

SPEAKER_02 (51:13):
But that's what I kind of like about what you were
saying about it being thearchitecture being the it's an
architectural documentary, butthe architecture's the backdrop,
you know?
And I almost feel that filmMorris and I, I don't know if
either of you guys have seen it,but incredibly beautiful film.
Although it's about them andtheir practice and architecture,

(51:34):
ultimately it's a love film.
It's a film about it's a filmabout love, and it's incredibly
poignant and incrediblyemotional.
And I think Yeah, one of thegood architecture films with
like an emotional Like from anarc as an architect, like the
grief you feel at the end islike palpable.
And I even I feel like as a as alay person watching that, you'd

(51:57):
be able to sense the love anddevotion that they had for each
other and their work it andtheir work being architecture.
And I feel like that's the typeof long format architectural
film that isn't about abuilding, even though it is.
It's about something fargreater, and that's that's
successful, really successful.

SPEAKER_03 (52:15):
Yeah, it had like the clo a really good
three-quarter slump or you know,classic movie where something
happens and it's like, oh no,buildings, buildings, buildings,
earthquake.
And then it's like fight forbuildings post-earthquake.
Some get demolished, some save,and then yay, town hall fixed.

SPEAKER_00 (52:33):
I haven't seen it, so I'm gonna have to definitely
follow up because it soundsamazing.
Um absolutely, like this is thisis kind of what I'm getting at
with the idea of thisdocumentary.
Um and it's not necessarilysomething you could do in like a
a 90-second or even a three orfour-minute film, but I guess
that is kind of where my head ismoving, is it's like what what
else is there just beyonddocumenting the building?

(52:55):
Like, what other things can weactually be thinking about when
we're making these films?
And I think that that's what alot of viril's work is starting
to to draw out as well.
It's like going beyond justshowing spaces or nice bits of
furniture, but like what else isthere?
What other layers can we eitheroverlay or or pull out?

SPEAKER_01 (53:12):
I mean, like to add to that, like I've been
following another YouTubechannel out of the US called
Open Space, and theyspecifically focus on
mid-century homes.
And it is a joy to watch becauseit's all about the homeowner's
passion for mid-century.
It's not pretentious, it's nottopical material palette, all
these things that you get to seeon local project and S-Living
stuff.

(53:32):
It's like it's just the trueemotion of a person chasing that
mid-century dream.
And there was one particularepisode where one guy was after
this Richard Neutra home for 20years.
Taking 20 years to buy this onehome and six-minute episode, and
it was just brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 (53:48):
And that's that's beyond architecture at that
point, isn't it?
That's yeah, it's it's passion,it's love, it's it's human, it's
human emotion, you know.
And I think that's ultimatelywhat great architecture brings
out of people is emotion.
Be whatever that is.

SPEAKER_01 (54:01):
And I sort of feel that if you can bring that sort
of emotion out in newarchitecture with some of your
clients, it would be phenomenal,right?
Like not to talk about marbleand all things like this,
superficial things, but whythey're white house.

SPEAKER_00 (54:16):
Those productions are they're bespoke.
They're not they're not the sameset of cookie-cutter questions
and format that they follow onon everything.
It's like they go to this house,they talk to the person that
owns it, and it's develops outof that.

SPEAKER_04 (54:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:29):
Which, you know, I think that's a much more
interesting way of makingarchitectural film than, you
know, applying the same kind offormat to each thing as well.

SPEAKER_02 (54:38):
Yeah, and I even think beyond the interview
format, even potentially morepowerful is just seeing the
visual proof of the changeemotional, the change in
lifestyle that architecture hasbrought upon people, you know,
and I think about um if Gerard,I don't know if you were there,
but like the St.
Hilda's church project here inWellington.

(54:58):
And even though the the vicar ofthis church spoke at the awards
a couple of years ago about thehow much the project had changes
parish, you know, it got quiteemotional.
But you could see obviously hewas speaking about it, but you
could see through him and thepeople around him the actual
change.
And e even if he'd not said aword, you you could have still
experienced that.
And I feel like that's almostthe most powerful thing, is the

(55:19):
unspoken influence ofarchitecture.

SPEAKER_03 (55:22):
Yeah.
So far, my takeaway from thischat is emotion.
Yeah.
Instilling emotion.

SPEAKER_00 (55:28):
Well, I mean, like it that's what it comes back to
is that architecture is aboutpeople, ultimately.
I mean, I think there thatthere's been there have been
movements throughout historywhere architecture's you know
about the object, and it stillcan be to some extent.
But I mean ultimately I think itit comes back to people.
And I think that that's I mean,I think that's where the the the
interesting stories are forsure.

SPEAKER_02 (55:50):
Cool.
Well, I think that might be apretty good uh point to wrap up,
guys.
And if you've got you knowanything obviously I'll chop
unscrew this a little bit.
My editing skills won't beanywhere near as good as yours.
But um have you guys gotanything else you want to end
on?
I think Nick, you ended on apretty, a pretty, pretty key
statement there.
I think that was that thatwrapped things up pretty nicely.
But Varral, anything anythingfrom you?

SPEAKER_01 (56:11):
We could do a part three.

SPEAKER_02 (56:18):
Yeah, we should.