March 27, 2025 • 35 mins
What happens when design trends come full circle? In this illuminating conversation with kitchen designer and educator Jan Rutgers, we explore the fascinating evolutions and throwbacks dominating KBIS 2025. Having toured the show for three consecutive years, Jan shares how today's cutting-edge designs are actually sophisticated reimaginings of elements from decades past.
The reign of hard, angular kitchen elements is giving way to what Jan calls "soft geometry" – curved islands, arched cooking hearths, and rounded fixtures that not only look beautiful but solve practical problems like the dreaded "hip bangers" of rectangular corners. These softer forms create more comfortable, functional spaces while adding visual interest.
Color has returned with surprising warmth, featuring muted 70s-inspired palettes of terracottas, greens, and yellows appearing on everything from cabinet doors to appliances. Meanwhile, fluting (also called pole wrap) continues its dominance but is evolving toward wider slat applications that create more architectural presence.
Perhaps most exciting is the movement beyond basic shaker doors, with manufacturers finally introducing leather, metal, and textured center panels. Freestanding vanities lead this charge with curved drawers, multiple finishes, and exceptional interior functionality – proving that beautiful design doesn't require sacrificing practicality.
For designers navigating industry uncertainties, Jan offers valuable perspective on the "changing of the guard" as veterans retire and new professionals enter the field. This transition, coupled with the enduring consumer desire for beautiful, functional spaces, creates opportunities for differentiation through thoughtful marketing and diversified product offerings.
Whether you're a design professional looking to stay ahead of trends or a homeowner planning your next renovation, this episode provides crucial insights into where kitchen and bath design is heading – with one foot firmly planted in the wisdom of the past.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Lockhart (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Designer Discussions
with Jason, miriam and Maria.
Today we are joined by JanRuckers and she's talking about
ABS 2025 Overview.
Maria Martin (00:13):
Welcome to the Designer Discussions podcast
with.
Jason.
Miriam and Maria, where we talkabout marketing, pr and
business advice for designprofessionals.
Jan Rutgers (00:27):
Thanks, jason, I'm really excited to be here.
I think this is our third yeardoing this, which is really
exciting.
Every year, as a kitchendesigner and educator, I
definitely am going to the showand you know, as you know, going
(00:47):
to the show it can be really,really busy and you know,
usually those first few days ofthe show is all about, you know,
taking meetings and networkingand doing it.
But Thursday is kind of my day.
That's my day where a lot ofpeople have left, the show floor
isn't as busy and that is mytime to just walk the show by
myself and really have a look tosee what is, you know, what is
(01:10):
trending and what's happening inthe business.
So I've put together, I wouldsay, six main trends, but I'm
going to preface that with thestatement that I'm mostly seeing
just a continuation of thetrends from the last three years
, when we did this podcast rightafter the Orlando show I think
(01:35):
that was in 2022, wow, like wehadn't had a KBiz show for a few
years and really saw, you know,some strong trends emerging,
and so what I definitely foundwith 2025 is it's a continuation
of those trends.
So I'm going to walk throughthem with you and then just kind
(01:55):
of give you kind of some youknow insights of where I might
see that they're starting toevolve a little bit more.
But you know, I didn't want tocome out and say, wow, there was
some big big trend we're seeingeverywhere.
There wasn't, and you know, andI think that you know that does
make sense in our industry.
So, you know, pop in at anytime, either one of you if you
(02:17):
have any comments.
But I'm going to start off with.
The first big trend again,which is a big continuation from
the last three years, is curves, or what I call soft geometry.
That definitely the shapes thatwe're seeing in kitchen and
bath are going from those hard,you know angular, rectangular
(02:43):
shapes that we saw in the last10 years you know these big, you
know rectangular islands andvery modern geometric lines to
much softer.
And you know that you know,using the phrase you know kind
of soft geometry.
They're definitely geometricbut much softer.
So what I mean by that is well,let's talk about islands.
(03:07):
I don't think I, you know, Idon't think I took a picture of
a single rectangular island.
Almost every island in thedisplays was curved or that kind
of hill-shaped island.
So you know that was being donewith.
You know having the curved,radiused end on the countertop
(03:30):
or you know using the which I'lltalk about in a minute kind of
that pole wrap timber product towrap the ends but a real
softening of the islands, whichI think makes a lot of sense.
You know I've been a kitchendesigner for almost, you know,
three decades now and a lot ofmy work is, you know, with you
(03:52):
know with private.
You know clients.
You know not doing Maltese oranything like that.
I'm working with clientsrenovating their forever homes
and we spend a lot of timetalking about it and just what I
call the hip bangers of thoserectangular islands.
It's really nice to see thesoft geometry you know coming
into play because it just makesyou know for a much more
(04:15):
comfortable kitchen to work in.
When you've got multiple peoplemoving around in a kitchen, a
softer, rounder island orcounter ends is a real positive.
So other things that we'reseeing with the curves were the
cooking hearts and Dylan, I'vegot to laugh, maybe because I've
(04:37):
been doing this for so long I'mseeing things that I was
designing and seeing in thebeginning of my career starting
to make a comeback and, as withanything, be it fashion or, or
you know, interior design.
It comes back, but with a bitof a twist.
So something that I was seeinga lot at the show were these
(04:57):
arched cooking hearts.
So these are kind of enclosedniches or alcoves for the
cooking area, like the rangearea, in a nice big arch over
top of it, typically drywalledor tiled or some type of
treatment around it.
But it was really making afocal point of that cooking
(05:20):
hearth area.
Other places, other things Iwas seeing is like curved niches
.
So you know, maybe a framed inand drywall niche above the
refrigerator, but instead ofbeing a square niche it would
have a curve at the top.
Tons of the display background.
So say somebody, you knowsomeone was doing a display, or
(05:42):
a supplier or manufacturer wouldbe doing a display of sinks.
You know, I would see the sinksin a countertop with a large
curved arch area above it, tiled, you know, just to kind of make
it a focal point.
What else did I see with?
Oh, this was interesting.
So again, kind of looking atkind of those throwback
(06:06):
interesting.
So again, kind of looking atkind of those throwback.
You know, in the day we weredoing a ton of open shelving
units with arched valances ontop.
Those kind of went away, youknow, probably around 2010,.
You know to 2020, everythinggot squared off.
I have multiple pictures ofcabinets with arched tops and
(06:26):
little details.
Maybe it's kind of adding thatdetail in.
And I even saw a display wherethey had two open shelving units
kind of bookending I can'tremember if it was a
refrigerator or what it was andthey had what I call eyebrow
arches, so they had a half archon each side.
(06:47):
So again, this was stuff thatwe were doing in cabinet and
kitchen design.
You know, kind of um in in theum, you know, late 90s, early
2000s.
So seeing it coming, comingback, was was really interested.
And then there was even onedisplay.
Was really cool is that theyhad three open shelving units
with kind of two on the end withyour traditional arch valance
(07:11):
at the top, and then they had areverse arch valance at the
bottom of the center one, and itjust kind of enclosed the
product so you could set thingson it and they wouldn't fall off
the shelf, but kind of playingwith geometry, which, um, which
was really cool.
Um, another throwback.
Um, some you know, some peoplelistening may remember this from
(07:35):
the eighties.
But the eighties a lot of um, alot of cabinet end runs,
especially a wall cabinet endruns, um, either side of a
window would have these things.
We called them knick-knackshelves in the end and they were
kind of these angled off orcurved shelves.
You know, I almost fell over.
(07:55):
I walked into a display one ofthe countertop people and there
were a full set of floor ceilingcurved what I call knickknack
shelves and you know, but againit has more of a modern spin.
They're definitely curved, alldone out of white oak, you know,
with nice spacing on them, butit looked fresh and new, even
(08:18):
though it was something thatthat we did see 30 years ago.
And you know, you know, I guessthe last thing on the curves
and the soft geometry wasplumbing fixtures.
You know, again, you know,maybe five, 10 years ago we were
seeing a real trend for youknow, all of the sinks and tubs
and everything to be very squareand angular, everything was
(08:40):
oval and curved and soft.
So that's kind of my first, youknow, first take um is on the
curves and the soft geometry.
And you know, I definitely seethat that continuing, because
you know even things for beingable to clean out a round sink
over a square sink.
You know just the um, you knowjust um.
(09:01):
You know how a you knowoval-shaped tub feels in a room
compared to a squared-off one.
It's just softening, I think,you know more relaxing, kind of
slowing people down.
So I think that's going to bedefinitely a trend that will
stay going.
Jason Lockhart (09:18):
With all of the trends.
Have you seen anything in termsof the color?
Jan Rutgers (09:23):
Yeah, I would think that.
Well, definitely color.
Again, we saw that starting tocome in at 22, getting stronger
in 23, getting stronger in 24,very strong in 25.
So the you know color issomething we are seeing on
everything.
You know appliances you knowevery manufacturer that I saw
(09:43):
was promoting colored appliances, which you know, you know.
You know I love it.
I think it's great for doing afocal point.
It's going to be interesting tosee how it plays out.
You know, just for replacement.
You know products, because someof them you know were pretty
out there.
Some of the colors, and if, if Iwere to peg a color trend that
(10:04):
I saw that may expand is what Iwould call retro colors and the
colors that started popping upon my camera feed because I took
over 650 pictures and then whenI sit and I scroll through them
, that's when I start to see thetrends.
(10:25):
And it was those 70s colors.
They're quite muted of kind ofterracottas and browns and
oranges and yellows and greens.
You know it wasn't the avocadogreen of the 70s, it was a
little bit of an updated greenbut it definitely had those
muted tones and there was alsopatterning that came in
(10:48):
specifically with tile is whereI saw it quite a bit is just
kind of 70s motifs along withthe colors, and it was
interesting.
Now you know I was fortunateenough to go to Eurocucina in
Milan in 2018.
You know that's quite a fewyears ago now, but the number
one color accent at that showwas terracotta and I was seeing
(11:12):
that.
You know quite a bit fromcabinet door colors, sinks in
those colors.
You know even some appliancesthat were veering into those
tones.
So you know those colors werestrong.
The whites definitely werewarming up.
So you can see, kind of withthese saturated, muted tones, a
(11:36):
bright, cool white was not goingto work.
So mostly warm whites, morecreams and just softening of the
white palette to be able towork with these different colors
.
And the wallpaper it wasunbelievable how much wallpaper
(11:58):
I was seeing.
There was even one display Ithink it was monograms which you
know, they do a pretty bigsplash every year.
Now they have since 2022.
And they had done a room, fullywallpapered room and kind of a
vinyl wallpaper, and they'd evencovered the dishwasher panel in
the wallpaper to integrate itinto the space.
(12:20):
So you know, I think you know,if you're looking at you know,
color was everywhere.
We're definitely going awayfrom the all white or all gray
kitchen and, to, you know, dowhat you love and, you know, put
those accent colors in.
And most of the cabinetmanufacturers.
When I look at the cabinetmanufacturers' color palettes,
(12:42):
they were sticking with a lot ofgreens.
We had seen blues that werestrong, which we're still seeing
, the blues, but a lot moregreens that were for the doors
and even I think Benjamin Moorewas there with their colors
palette of the year a lot ofgreens coming on.
So that's what I saw for colorand what else, oh, so another
(13:10):
trend that we started seeingemerging a few years ago was the
fluting.
It's also people call it polewrap garages, and now we're
(13:32):
seeing this product, um, youknow, re being reinvented and
that's really what it is.
I remember last year talking to, uh, one of um, one of the
manufacturers of that productand I said isn't this just the
old timbre stuff?
And they went yeah, you'reright, but they're just making
it larger format and they'redoing um, you know, they're
doing the, the curves, you know,going into that curving trend.
But they're also doing beveledand some different profiles.
(13:52):
But that fluting trend isreally going strong.
You know, I was seeing it oncabinet doors, I was seeing it
on hoods as accents, I wasseeing it on back of islands.
I was even seeing full walls,you know, being done with the
fluting Because of the abilityto bend it.
(14:14):
It also was seen wrapping theends of these curved islands.
You know, that's a great way tobe able to get that curved base
on an island using this flutingpole wrap material.
And then we also started to seethe fluting going, not just
(14:34):
being produced in wood butmorphing into other materials.
So you had fluted naturalstones like granites and marbles
, fluted quartz products.
One of the manufacturers wasoffering a full sheets of quartz
in fluted material for verticalapplications, like in a shower
(14:57):
or on a full wall or abacksplash.
They also had the fluting inthe glass doors which, again in
the day we called it reededglass, which, you know, again in
the day we called it reededglass, which you know it still
is reeded glass, but it wasshowing up as a complement to
all of the fluted elements inshower doors and as inserts for
(15:23):
glass doors with cabinets.
So I guess what I did see,though, is you do see evolutions
of these trends.
So fluting, strong, strong,strong, seeing it everywhere.
But its evolution was what Iwould call slat material.
So wider strips of wood thatwere used similarly to the
(15:48):
fluting, that were usedsimilarly to the fluting.
It doesn't have as muchcurvability, but these wider
slats were being used as accentson hoods.
So I'll talk a minute abouthoods, what I saw there, but
just being able to givedimension to the hood, seeing
them on the backside of islands,you know, underneath the dining
(16:12):
bar, definitely wall treatmentslike full walls, but probably
where I saw it used the mosteffectively was as wall dividers
.
So these bigger, wider slats ofwood floor to ceiling to just,
you know, give a little bit ofprivacy.
(16:33):
You know, to an area I saw one,you know, around a tub area.
Definitely saw it kind of inkitchens, you know, maybe
defining the eating area.
So that'll be something towatch for to see how the
flexible fluting will start toshow up more, almost more chunky
(16:56):
, a little bit more masculine.
So you kind of have the.
I find the fluting is a littlebit more feminine, a little bit,
you know, softer, and this slatwall is a little bit is a bit
more geometric, a little bitmore masculine, but, you know, a
nice element to be able tointroduce into your spaces.
(17:16):
So you know, from that I'm goingto just pop over to hoods, just
mention a little bit about thedecorative hood, because there
are tons of options and you knowI saw multiple displays that
were showing the hoods.
We've seen that for quite awhile but there's kind of more
(17:38):
and more and I think probablyone of the reasons that this is
becoming a big trend is that itis a way for the cabinet
showroom, the kitchen and bathcabinet showroom that doesn't
sell appliances, to be able toget in on that trend.
You know, yes, there were metal,you know metal hoods in the
appliance manufacturers booths,but there were a ton of wood
(18:01):
hoods in the kitchen cabinetdisplays and there were actual
separate displays of just thewood hoods.
And I'm seeing now that thewood hood manufacturers are
catching on and there was onedisplay that was excellent,
where they actually haddeveloped a process for hanging
(18:22):
these things.
You know, because if you're akitchen designer and you're out
there and you're wanting to do adecorative hood, well, it's got
to be accessible.
And you're wanting to do adecorative hood, well, it's got
to be accessible, you know, tothe electrician and the venting
person to be able to hook themup.
So it was really really nice tosee that the popularity of the
(18:44):
wood hood in kitchen design isfinally getting into the
functionality of how to easilyintegrate it into the design and
allow all the trades to come inand do their work.
So you know, having seen thatnow, I can see that we'll
probably even see more, you know, wood hoods coming onto the
market.
Mirjam Lippuner (19:01):
Fascinated listening to this and I'm
wondering where the pictures are.
Yeah, exactly.
Jan Rutgers (19:07):
You know what I think, what I will have to do.
Mary, as I said, I haven't beenblogging for the last few
months, you know, just becauseI've been working on another
project.
But yeah, I think I'lldefinitely put together a
presentation I will do that.
I will absolutely.
Mirjam Lippuner (19:20):
For people like me who are visually challenged,
that'd be super helpful.
Jan Rutgers (19:25):
It's on my to-do list, okay, so just moving on.
This was something that we havebeen seeing for a trend for a
while, but it's getting biggerand bigger is freestanding
vanities.
I've got to say themanufacturers of the
freestanding vanities are reallythe ones that are pushing the
(19:46):
envelope.
They were the ones that wereshowing really interesting, cool
door styles and it'll makesense that if it's just going to
be a vanity, you know peoplemight be more apt to you know
kind of push the limits and notjust do a basic white shaker
door so like beautiful,different finishes, tons of soft
(20:11):
geometry.
There these freestanding vanitymanufacturers were curving the
ends of them, they wereintegrating, you know curved
drawers, you know differentfinishes, colors and the
functionality of these vanitiesthat every vanity manufacturer
(20:31):
that I visited and looked at youknow open the doors, open the
drawers.
They were loaded up withinterior functionality and
accessories.
So you know there'd be a curvedend on a vanity and you would
open it up and it was a drawer.
It was a curved drawer that wasfunctional.
There were drawers underneaththe sinks with the U-shaped
cutout, tons of interiordividers and accessories.
(20:55):
So really, these freestandingvanities, which were like
beautiful furniture pieces, weretremendously functional and
even one.
We have been seeing a lot ofsuspended vanities in bathrooms
in recent years and you know, Ithink you know that's great to
expand the space and you know,make it's actually great for
(21:17):
universal design as well,because you know you've got that
wider, that wider, higher kickarea.
But you know, sometimes thedesigner specifies a suspended
vanity, maybe in a renovation,and there's no blocking in the
back end to actually support it.
So I started seeing andnoticing that a lot of the
(21:39):
vanity manufacturers wereshowing suspended vanities off
the floor but they were givingleg options so that you could
get some type of support andthey'd be metal, they'd be wood,
and I thought that was a greatinnovation.
But definitely want to watchthese freestanding vanities,
(22:02):
absolutely beautiful, everythingfrom kind of rustic, look, one
looking ones, transitional,traditional, to.
You know, one booth I was in itwas all about glam.
You know they had, you know,sparkly vanity doors and you
know high gloss finishes.
So definitely something outthere for everyone.
When it comes to thefreestanding vanities, so that
(22:24):
kind of brings me up to kind ofcabinet doors, like actual
kitchen cabinet doors I'mstarting to see some more
options beyond shaker.
You know, for years we would goand all we would see was shaker
doors, shaker doors, and it waskind of pretty boring.
So and maybe, you know, maybeit's the influence of these
vanity manufacturers that arereally pushing the envelope, but
(22:46):
this was the first year in afew years that I started to see,
even with the cabinetmanufacturers, they started to
push the envelope a little biton cabinet door offerings.
So the center panel on afive-piece door, you could get
it in different finishes, fromleathers to metals, to the
(23:08):
fluting, you know, inside ofthat I even started to see some
like metal insert accents aroundthe doors and the like, the
what's, the, I can't rememberthe name of it, but the kind of
the wicker that you would see.
I saw some cabinet doors likethat and you know it was nice
(23:32):
just to be able to see somethinga little bit different over
your standard shaker door.
So I think this trend is, youknow, both from the designer's
point of view and probably fromthe consumer's point of view,
that you know we've had thatshaker door for two decades now.
It's probably time to push theenvelope.
And again going back to what wewere doing, you know, in the
(23:53):
90s, in the early 2000s, youknow I rarely did a shaker door.
We were doing a lot ofdifferent things.
So I'm starting to see thatcoming back.
The one door now it's beenpopular in my area up in the
Pacific Northwest here forprobably the last 15 years, but
it's really catching on acrossthe continent is the slim shaker
(24:17):
door, which is a shaker doorbut it typically only has about
a three quarter to one inchstyle and rail all the way
around it and they were doingthings like inserting that
fluting as the interior panel.
They were offering more woodspecies and one I saw now I
(24:41):
would say that the slim shakerprofile was a bit, was probably
maybe more like an inch and aquarter, and they had done a
wide, probably three quarterinch bevel onto the inside, or
what's called the sticking onthe inside.
You know I just thought, okay,that's.
You know, that's cool.
That just kind of, you know,takes that Slim Shaker trend
(25:03):
just to the little bit to thenext level.
So it was.
You know it was nice to seebecause I've got to admit in the
last few years I was findingthe cabinet door manufacturers
offerings pretty boring andwe're starting to see that
change.
So I think we're just aboutready to wrap up, you know I'm
just flipping through my noteshere, so you know we've covered.
(25:25):
You know the curves and softgeometry.
You know the fluting trendvanities.
You know really kind of settinga lot of trends, cabinet doors
starting to get a little bitmore interesting.
You know the decorative hoodsexpanding and I think you know
being able to install themeasier is going to push that
(25:45):
forward.
And, of course, color.
You know being able to installthem easier is going to push
that forward.
And of course, color, you knowyou probably.
You know we can't emphasizethat enough and last year I
remember talking to a fewdesigners about this big trend
of bringing joy to your clients'homes.
You know, through the use ofdifferent things and definitely
(26:06):
through color, people arefinally, you know, at a point
where they don't have to belemmings and follow.
You know follow everybody.
And you know put in anall-white shaker kitchen that
you know they've got all ofthese options now, from the
appliances to the backsplash, towallpaper, to cabinet door
finishes.
You know decorative hardwareyou hardware everything coming
(26:27):
in color and probably the lastone and I'm hoping this is going
to be a trend that we'll see alittle bit more is I did start
(26:53):
to see aspects of aging in placethroughout the show floor and
there was an accessory supplierthere that I found had some
really cool grab bars thatdidn't look like grab bars for
showers, that you could tile thefront edge of them so that they
would blend in more, that theyweren't.
This, you know big, you knowstainless steel monstrosity in
the middle of your shower.
(27:13):
And one of the appliancemanufacturers did a full ADA
kind of suite.
Like you know, we're we'redoing a lot of um infill homes
and um ADU units and they did itall on um universal design or
(27:34):
aging in place design.
It was really cool, nice,bright colors, you know, and
they, they, they had, um, youknow, designed a really cool
desk area that had um that wasbuilt into a niche, that had
different slots that you couldpull the countertop out and then
slot it back in at differentheights.
So, um, you know they weredoing some cool stuff.
(27:56):
They'd raised the dishwasheragain, um, kind of.
In the late nineties I did a tonof raised dishwashers in my
designs.
I think I saw two or threeexamples of raised dishwashers.
So, you know, I think that'sreally positive that we all want
to stay in our homes longer anddesigners can start sneaking in
these aging in place featuresinto their designs.
(28:19):
It'll be a great trend.
So I think that kind of wrapsit up in my whirlwind Thursday
walkthrough of the show.
But yeah, it's going to beinteresting to see what next
year has to bring, and that'skind of my take on trends for
KBiz 2025.
Mirjam Lippuner (28:38):
I love that, Jen.
One question about the generalmood at the show.
General mood at the show.
I'm just curious because we'regetting some conflicting
information of what people thinkthe outlook is for the industry
.
What did you think that vibewas like?
Jan Rutgers (28:54):
Yeah, okay, so definitely, miriam and Jason
know I'm a Canadian, so there'sdefinitely things that we're
feeling here.
You know, here too, what I washearing talking to the industry
is that there is, you know, alittle bit of uncertainty that
(29:17):
prices of new home construction,you know has been high over the
last little while and nowfeeling that it will be going
higher.
So you know that could reallyslow down new home construction.
Again, this is just what I'mhearing from my colleagues and
(29:38):
clients maybe being a little bitmore hesitant, you know, to
take on, you know, a bigrenovation at this exact moment
until things, you know, settledown a little bit.
So you know that's kind ofmostly.
You know people are stilloptimistic and you know we still
have those influences.
(29:58):
You know from the pandemic, youknow where people were looking
more inward, looking at theirhomes, and you know wanting to
improve.
You know, I think the industry.
You know we're probably in agreat, you know a great time for
looking at the industry as awhole and maybe there is going
(30:20):
to be a little bit of a slowdownright now, but you know this is
a perfect time to get yourstaff up and training.
I think the I think the onething that that I was hearing
the most talking to people inthe industry especially, you
know, kind of Tuesday, wednesdayor my networking days going
(30:40):
around is that in the industryas a whole that there is a
little, there's a kind of achanging of the guard happening
and you've got a lot of veteransretiring.
I probably heard that fromevery dealer that I talked to.
Their veterans are retiring intheir showrooms and they're
bringing on new designers andwe've talked about this in this
(31:02):
podcast quite a bit in the past.
The chaos of choice can kind ofbe a bit overwhelming for them.
So most of the conversations Iwas having on the show floor was
you know, how are we going tohandle, how are we going to
train that next generation, youknow, of kitchen and bath
designers.
And you know what, if we'regetting a bit of a slowdown
right now, oh, this is the timeto probably jump in and do that
(31:25):
and get ready.
Things always change, you knowwe.
You know we cannot predict thefuture, but most people are
still going to want a house.
You know they're going to wantto live somewhere.
And you know, just, you knowmyself, I just, you know, in the
last couple of years Irenovated two bathrooms and my
kitchen and I know it changesyour life, you know, for the
(31:45):
better.
So I think that's going to bepositive.
So what?
What have you been hearing,miriam?
Mirjam Lippuner (31:51):
yeah, it's, I think a little bit of both, and
I'm like.
Our point, of course, also isit is a great time to be amping
up your marketing, because youcan put yourself in a much
better position, especially ifthere's uncertainty and other
people are pulling back by you.
At least keeping up what you'redoing, if not adding to it, is
(32:15):
a great way to counteract thatand puts you in the winning
position going forward.
Jan Rutgers (32:21):
Yeah, and for me it's differentiating.
How are you going todifferentiate your business, you
know, from other business?
So, yeah, marketing, pr,training, you know.
Even something you know andthis is probably a trend to talk
about you know it used to bethat, you know, with a kitchen
showroom, that you know a lot ofmanufacturers would just kind
(32:45):
of a lot of showrooms would justhave a few lines and they would
kind of have their niche.
They're going to be you got amid-end or high-end.
A big trend that I'm seeing isthat showrooms are diversifying,
that they're bringing in thatentry-level line, that mid-line
and that high-end line, beingable to offer, you know, product
to all the different cohortsthat are out there.
(33:06):
You know, because you know youdo have the millennials starting
to come on and they're going towant to buy.
They're going to want to buyproducts, but they may not have
the resources of the, of theboomers or the Gen Xs.
So you know, I think thatthat's kind of interesting
looking at how, how the industryneeds to evolve and to be able
(33:26):
to, to be able to look after allof our different types of
clientele.
And you know to your point, youknow, miriam, about you know,
ramping up on your marketing anddifferent things.
How are you going todifferentiate?
It's a great podcast to haveguys.
Mirjam Lippuner (33:41):
Yeah, we'll definitely have to talk about it
.
But, jens, thank you so muchfor sharing your insights with
us.
As every year, I'm like wherecan people find you and learn
more about you?
Jan Rutgers (33:58):
Yeah, so right now you can pop onto my website,
which is Vestibule spelledV-E-S-T-A-B-U-Lcom.
And the website is in fluxright now because I will be
launching a new kitchen and bathdesign industry professionals
(34:20):
membership site, so you'll see alittle bit about it there.
But if you want to reach out tome if you've got any questions,
you just pop onto my contactpage on the website.
Mirjam Lippuner (34:32):
Awesome, perfect.
Well, thank you so much, jen.
We'll see you soon and we'llsee everybody else again in two
weeks here at DesignerDiscussions.
Maria Martin (34:40):
See ya, Did you know that your client learns 80%
of what they will know aboutyou before they ever contact you
?
Now imagine when your potentialclient searches for the perfect
kitchen remodel.
Will they find you or yourcompetition?
We can help you make sure it'syou.
Our Designer DiscussionsAcademy membership with your
(35:01):
favorite podcast hosts provideweekly steps to simplify your
marketing and boost yourbusiness.
Sign up atdesignerdiscussionscom or follow
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We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of Designer Discussions
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Subscribe to our podcast, leaveus a review and share it with
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We look forward to having youback next week.
(35:23):
For more information on thepodcast and the marketing studio
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Hello and welcome to Designer Discussions
with Jason, miriam and Maria.
Today we are joined by JanRuckers and she's talking about
ABS 2025 Overview.
Maria Martin (00:13):
Welcome to the Designer Discussions podcast
with.
Jason.
Miriam and Maria, where we talkabout marketing, pr and
business advice for designprofessionals.
Jan Rutgers (00:27):
Thanks, jason, I'm really excited to be here.
I think this is our third yeardoing this, which is really
exciting.
Every year, as a kitchendesigner and educator, I
definitely am going to the showand you know, as you know, going
(00:47):
to the show it can be really,really busy and you know,
usually those first few days ofthe show is all about, you know,
taking meetings and networkingand doing it.
But Thursday is kind of my day.
That's my day where a lot ofpeople have left, the show floor
isn't as busy and that is mytime to just walk the show by
myself and really have a look tosee what is, you know, what is
(01:10):
trending and what's happening inthe business.
So I've put together, I wouldsay, six main trends, but I'm
going to preface that with thestatement that I'm mostly seeing
just a continuation of thetrends from the last three years
, when we did this podcast rightafter the Orlando show I think
(01:35):
that was in 2022, wow, like wehadn't had a KBiz show for a few
years and really saw, you know,some strong trends emerging,
and so what I definitely foundwith 2025 is it's a continuation
of those trends.
So I'm going to walk throughthem with you and then just kind
(01:55):
of give you kind of some youknow insights of where I might
see that they're starting toevolve a little bit more.
But you know, I didn't want tocome out and say, wow, there was
some big big trend we're seeingeverywhere.
There wasn't, and you know, andI think that you know that does
make sense in our industry.
So, you know, pop in at anytime, either one of you if you
(02:17):
have any comments.
But I'm going to start off with.
The first big trend again,which is a big continuation from
the last three years, is curves, or what I call soft geometry.
That definitely the shapes thatwe're seeing in kitchen and
bath are going from those hard,you know angular, rectangular
(02:43):
shapes that we saw in the last10 years you know these big, you
know rectangular islands andvery modern geometric lines to
much softer.
And you know that you know,using the phrase you know kind
of soft geometry.
They're definitely geometricbut much softer.
So what I mean by that is well,let's talk about islands.
(03:07):
I don't think I, you know, Idon't think I took a picture of
a single rectangular island.
Almost every island in thedisplays was curved or that kind
of hill-shaped island.
So you know that was being donewith.
You know having the curved,radiused end on the countertop
(03:30):
or you know using the which I'lltalk about in a minute kind of
that pole wrap timber product towrap the ends but a real
softening of the islands, whichI think makes a lot of sense.
You know I've been a kitchendesigner for almost, you know,
three decades now and a lot ofmy work is, you know, with you
(03:52):
know with private.
You know clients.
You know not doing Maltese oranything like that.
I'm working with clientsrenovating their forever homes
and we spend a lot of timetalking about it and just what I
call the hip bangers of thoserectangular islands.
It's really nice to see thesoft geometry you know coming
into play because it just makesyou know for a much more
(04:15):
comfortable kitchen to work in.
When you've got multiple peoplemoving around in a kitchen, a
softer, rounder island orcounter ends is a real positive.
So other things that we'reseeing with the curves were the
cooking hearts and Dylan, I'vegot to laugh, maybe because I've
(04:37):
been doing this for so long I'mseeing things that I was
designing and seeing in thebeginning of my career starting
to make a comeback and, as withanything, be it fashion or, or
you know, interior design.
It comes back, but with a bitof a twist.
So something that I was seeinga lot at the show were these
(04:57):
arched cooking hearts.
So these are kind of enclosedniches or alcoves for the
cooking area, like the rangearea, in a nice big arch over
top of it, typically drywalledor tiled or some type of
treatment around it.
But it was really making afocal point of that cooking
(05:20):
hearth area.
Other places, other things Iwas seeing is like curved niches
.
So you know, maybe a framed inand drywall niche above the
refrigerator, but instead ofbeing a square niche it would
have a curve at the top.
Tons of the display background.
So say somebody, you knowsomeone was doing a display, or
(05:42):
a supplier or manufacturer wouldbe doing a display of sinks.
You know, I would see the sinksin a countertop with a large
curved arch area above it, tiled, you know, just to kind of make
it a focal point.
What else did I see with?
Oh, this was interesting.
So again, kind of looking atkind of those throwback
(06:06):
interesting.
So again, kind of looking atkind of those throwback.
You know, in the day we weredoing a ton of open shelving
units with arched valances ontop.
Those kind of went away, youknow, probably around 2010,.
You know to 2020, everythinggot squared off.
I have multiple pictures ofcabinets with arched tops and
(06:26):
little details.
Maybe it's kind of adding thatdetail in.
And I even saw a display wherethey had two open shelving units
kind of bookending I can'tremember if it was a
refrigerator or what it was andthey had what I call eyebrow
arches, so they had a half archon each side.
(06:47):
So again, this was stuff thatwe were doing in cabinet and
kitchen design.
You know, kind of um in in theum, you know, late 90s, early
2000s.
So seeing it coming, comingback, was was really interested.
And then there was even onedisplay.
Was really cool is that theyhad three open shelving units
with kind of two on the end withyour traditional arch valance
(07:11):
at the top, and then they had areverse arch valance at the
bottom of the center one, and itjust kind of enclosed the
product so you could set thingson it and they wouldn't fall off
the shelf, but kind of playingwith geometry, which, um, which
was really cool.
Um, another throwback.
Um, some you know, some peoplelistening may remember this from
(07:35):
the eighties.
But the eighties a lot of um, alot of cabinet end runs,
especially a wall cabinet endruns, um, either side of a
window would have these things.
We called them knick-knackshelves in the end and they were
kind of these angled off orcurved shelves.
You know, I almost fell over.
(07:55):
I walked into a display one ofthe countertop people and there
were a full set of floor ceilingcurved what I call knickknack
shelves and you know, but againit has more of a modern spin.
They're definitely curved, alldone out of white oak, you know,
with nice spacing on them, butit looked fresh and new, even
(08:18):
though it was something thatthat we did see 30 years ago.
And you know, you know, I guessthe last thing on the curves
and the soft geometry wasplumbing fixtures.
You know, again, you know,maybe five, 10 years ago we were
seeing a real trend for youknow, all of the sinks and tubs
and everything to be very squareand angular, everything was
(08:40):
oval and curved and soft.
So that's kind of my first, youknow, first take um is on the
curves and the soft geometry.
And you know, I definitely seethat that continuing, because
you know even things for beingable to clean out a round sink
over a square sink.
You know just the um, you knowjust um.
(09:01):
You know how a you knowoval-shaped tub feels in a room
compared to a squared-off one.
It's just softening, I think,you know more relaxing, kind of
slowing people down.
So I think that's going to bedefinitely a trend that will
stay going.
Jason Lockhart (09:18):
With all of the trends.
Have you seen anything in termsof the color?
Jan Rutgers (09:23):
Yeah, I would think that.
Well, definitely color.
Again, we saw that starting tocome in at 22, getting stronger
in 23, getting stronger in 24,very strong in 25.
So the you know color issomething we are seeing on
everything.
You know appliances you knowevery manufacturer that I saw
(09:43):
was promoting colored appliances, which you know, you know.
You know I love it.
I think it's great for doing afocal point.
It's going to be interesting tosee how it plays out.
You know, just for replacement.
You know products, because someof them you know were pretty
out there.
Some of the colors, and if, if Iwere to peg a color trend that
(10:04):
I saw that may expand is what Iwould call retro colors and the
colors that started popping upon my camera feed because I took
over 650 pictures and then whenI sit and I scroll through them
, that's when I start to see thetrends.
(10:25):
And it was those 70s colors.
They're quite muted of kind ofterracottas and browns and
oranges and yellows and greens.
You know it wasn't the avocadogreen of the 70s, it was a
little bit of an updated greenbut it definitely had those
muted tones and there was alsopatterning that came in
(10:48):
specifically with tile is whereI saw it quite a bit is just
kind of 70s motifs along withthe colors, and it was
interesting.
Now you know I was fortunateenough to go to Eurocucina in
Milan in 2018.
You know that's quite a fewyears ago now, but the number
one color accent at that showwas terracotta and I was seeing
(11:12):
that.
You know quite a bit fromcabinet door colors, sinks in
those colors.
You know even some appliancesthat were veering into those
tones.
So you know those colors werestrong.
The whites definitely werewarming up.
So you can see, kind of withthese saturated, muted tones, a
(11:36):
bright, cool white was not goingto work.
So mostly warm whites, morecreams and just softening of the
white palette to be able towork with these different colors
.
And the wallpaper it wasunbelievable how much wallpaper
(11:58):
I was seeing.
There was even one display Ithink it was monograms which you
know, they do a pretty bigsplash every year.
Now they have since 2022.
And they had done a room, fullywallpapered room and kind of a
vinyl wallpaper, and they'd evencovered the dishwasher panel in
the wallpaper to integrate itinto the space.
(12:20):
So you know, I think you know,if you're looking at you know,
color was everywhere.
We're definitely going awayfrom the all white or all gray
kitchen and, to, you know, dowhat you love and, you know, put
those accent colors in.
And most of the cabinetmanufacturers.
When I look at the cabinetmanufacturers' color palettes,
(12:42):
they were sticking with a lot ofgreens.
We had seen blues that werestrong, which we're still seeing
, the blues, but a lot moregreens that were for the doors
and even I think Benjamin Moorewas there with their colors
palette of the year a lot ofgreens coming on.
So that's what I saw for colorand what else, oh, so another
(13:10):
trend that we started seeingemerging a few years ago was the
fluting.
It's also people call it polewrap garages, and now we're
(13:32):
seeing this product, um, youknow, re being reinvented and
that's really what it is.
I remember last year talking to, uh, one of um, one of the
manufacturers of that productand I said isn't this just the
old timbre stuff?
And they went yeah, you'reright, but they're just making
it larger format and they'redoing um, you know, they're
doing the, the curves, you know,going into that curving trend.
But they're also doing beveledand some different profiles.
(13:52):
But that fluting trend isreally going strong.
You know, I was seeing it oncabinet doors, I was seeing it
on hoods as accents, I wasseeing it on back of islands.
I was even seeing full walls,you know, being done with the
fluting Because of the abilityto bend it.
(14:14):
It also was seen wrapping theends of these curved islands.
You know, that's a great way tobe able to get that curved base
on an island using this flutingpole wrap material.
And then we also started to seethe fluting going, not just
(14:34):
being produced in wood butmorphing into other materials.
So you had fluted naturalstones like granites and marbles
, fluted quartz products.
One of the manufacturers wasoffering a full sheets of quartz
in fluted material for verticalapplications, like in a shower
(14:57):
or on a full wall or abacksplash.
They also had the fluting inthe glass doors which, again in
the day we called it reededglass, which, you know, again in
the day we called it reededglass, which you know it still
is reeded glass, but it wasshowing up as a complement to
all of the fluted elements inshower doors and as inserts for
(15:23):
glass doors with cabinets.
So I guess what I did see,though, is you do see evolutions
of these trends.
So fluting, strong, strong,strong, seeing it everywhere.
But its evolution was what Iwould call slat material.
So wider strips of wood thatwere used similarly to the
(15:48):
fluting, that were usedsimilarly to the fluting.
It doesn't have as muchcurvability, but these wider
slats were being used as accentson hoods.
So I'll talk a minute abouthoods, what I saw there, but
just being able to givedimension to the hood, seeing
them on the backside of islands,you know, underneath the dining
(16:12):
bar, definitely wall treatmentslike full walls, but probably
where I saw it used the mosteffectively was as wall dividers
.
So these bigger, wider slats ofwood floor to ceiling to just,
you know, give a little bit ofprivacy.
(16:33):
You know, to an area I saw one,you know, around a tub area.
Definitely saw it kind of inkitchens, you know, maybe
defining the eating area.
So that'll be something towatch for to see how the
flexible fluting will start toshow up more, almost more chunky
(16:56):
, a little bit more masculine.
So you kind of have the.
I find the fluting is a littlebit more feminine, a little bit,
you know, softer, and this slatwall is a little bit is a bit
more geometric, a little bitmore masculine, but, you know, a
nice element to be able tointroduce into your spaces.
(17:16):
So you know, from that I'm goingto just pop over to hoods, just
mention a little bit about thedecorative hood, because there
are tons of options and you knowI saw multiple displays that
were showing the hoods.
We've seen that for quite awhile but there's kind of more
(17:38):
and more and I think probablyone of the reasons that this is
becoming a big trend is that itis a way for the cabinet
showroom, the kitchen and bathcabinet showroom that doesn't
sell appliances, to be able toget in on that trend.
You know, yes, there were metal,you know metal hoods in the
appliance manufacturers booths,but there were a ton of wood
(18:01):
hoods in the kitchen cabinetdisplays and there were actual
separate displays of just thewood hoods.
And I'm seeing now that thewood hood manufacturers are
catching on and there was onedisplay that was excellent,
where they actually haddeveloped a process for hanging
(18:22):
these things.
You know, because if you're akitchen designer and you're out
there and you're wanting to do adecorative hood, well, it's got
to be accessible.
And you're wanting to do adecorative hood, well, it's got
to be accessible, you know, tothe electrician and the venting
person to be able to hook themup.
So it was really really nice tosee that the popularity of the
(18:44):
wood hood in kitchen design isfinally getting into the
functionality of how to easilyintegrate it into the design and
allow all the trades to come inand do their work.
So you know, having seen thatnow, I can see that we'll
probably even see more, you know, wood hoods coming onto the
market.
Mirjam Lippuner (19:01):
Fascinated listening to this and I'm
wondering where the pictures are.
Yeah, exactly.
Jan Rutgers (19:07):
You know what I think, what I will have to do.
Mary, as I said, I haven't beenblogging for the last few
months, you know, just becauseI've been working on another
project.
But yeah, I think I'lldefinitely put together a
presentation I will do that.
I will absolutely.
Mirjam Lippuner (19:20):
For people like me who are visually challenged,
that'd be super helpful.
Jan Rutgers (19:25):
It's on my to-do list, okay, so just moving on.
This was something that we havebeen seeing for a trend for a
while, but it's getting biggerand bigger is freestanding
vanities.
I've got to say themanufacturers of the
freestanding vanities are reallythe ones that are pushing the
(19:46):
envelope.
They were the ones that wereshowing really interesting, cool
door styles and it'll makesense that if it's just going to
be a vanity, you know peoplemight be more apt to you know
kind of push the limits and notjust do a basic white shaker
door so like beautiful,different finishes, tons of soft
(20:11):
geometry.
There these freestanding vanitymanufacturers were curving the
ends of them, they wereintegrating, you know curved
drawers, you know differentfinishes, colors and the
functionality of these vanitiesthat every vanity manufacturer
(20:31):
that I visited and looked at youknow open the doors, open the
drawers.
They were loaded up withinterior functionality and
accessories.
So you know there'd be a curvedend on a vanity and you would
open it up and it was a drawer.
It was a curved drawer that wasfunctional.
There were drawers underneaththe sinks with the U-shaped
cutout, tons of interiordividers and accessories.
(20:55):
So really, these freestandingvanities, which were like
beautiful furniture pieces, weretremendously functional and
even one.
We have been seeing a lot ofsuspended vanities in bathrooms
in recent years and you know, Ithink you know that's great to
expand the space and you know,make it's actually great for
(21:17):
universal design as well,because you know you've got that
wider, that wider, higher kickarea.
But you know, sometimes thedesigner specifies a suspended
vanity, maybe in a renovation,and there's no blocking in the
back end to actually support it.
So I started seeing andnoticing that a lot of the
(21:39):
vanity manufacturers wereshowing suspended vanities off
the floor but they were givingleg options so that you could
get some type of support andthey'd be metal, they'd be wood,
and I thought that was a greatinnovation.
But definitely want to watchthese freestanding vanities,
(22:02):
absolutely beautiful, everythingfrom kind of rustic, look, one
looking ones, transitional,traditional, to.
You know, one booth I was in itwas all about glam.
You know they had, you know,sparkly vanity doors and you
know high gloss finishes.
So definitely something outthere for everyone.
When it comes to thefreestanding vanities, so that
(22:24):
kind of brings me up to kind ofcabinet doors, like actual
kitchen cabinet doors I'mstarting to see some more
options beyond shaker.
You know, for years we would goand all we would see was shaker
doors, shaker doors, and it waskind of pretty boring.
So and maybe, you know, maybeit's the influence of these
vanity manufacturers that arereally pushing the envelope, but
(22:46):
this was the first year in afew years that I started to see,
even with the cabinetmanufacturers, they started to
push the envelope a little biton cabinet door offerings.
So the center panel on afive-piece door, you could get
it in different finishes, fromleathers to metals, to the
(23:08):
fluting, you know, inside ofthat I even started to see some
like metal insert accents aroundthe doors and the like, the
what's, the, I can't rememberthe name of it, but the kind of
the wicker that you would see.
I saw some cabinet doors likethat and you know it was nice
(23:32):
just to be able to see somethinga little bit different over
your standard shaker door.
So I think this trend is, youknow, both from the designer's
point of view and probably fromthe consumer's point of view,
that you know we've had thatshaker door for two decades now.
It's probably time to push theenvelope.
And again going back to what wewere doing, you know, in the
(23:53):
90s, in the early 2000s, youknow I rarely did a shaker door.
We were doing a lot ofdifferent things.
So I'm starting to see thatcoming back.
The one door now it's beenpopular in my area up in the
Pacific Northwest here forprobably the last 15 years, but
it's really catching on acrossthe continent is the slim shaker
(24:17):
door, which is a shaker doorbut it typically only has about
a three quarter to one inchstyle and rail all the way
around it and they were doingthings like inserting that
fluting as the interior panel.
They were offering more woodspecies and one I saw now I
(24:41):
would say that the slim shakerprofile was a bit, was probably
maybe more like an inch and aquarter, and they had done a
wide, probably three quarterinch bevel onto the inside, or
what's called the sticking onthe inside.
You know I just thought, okay,that's.
You know, that's cool.
That just kind of, you know,takes that Slim Shaker trend
(25:03):
just to the little bit to thenext level.
So it was.
You know it was nice to seebecause I've got to admit in the
last few years I was findingthe cabinet door manufacturers
offerings pretty boring andwe're starting to see that
change.
So I think we're just aboutready to wrap up, you know I'm
just flipping through my noteshere, so you know we've covered.
(25:25):
You know the curves and softgeometry.
You know the fluting trendvanities.
You know really kind of settinga lot of trends, cabinet doors
starting to get a little bitmore interesting.
You know the decorative hoodsexpanding and I think you know
being able to install themeasier is going to push that
(25:45):
forward.
And, of course, color.
You know being able to installthem easier is going to push
that forward.
And of course, color, you knowyou probably.
You know we can't emphasizethat enough and last year I
remember talking to a fewdesigners about this big trend
of bringing joy to your clients'homes.
You know, through the use ofdifferent things and definitely
(26:06):
through color, people arefinally, you know, at a point
where they don't have to belemmings and follow.
You know follow everybody.
And you know put in anall-white shaker kitchen that
you know they've got all ofthese options now, from the
appliances to the backsplash, towallpaper, to cabinet door
finishes.
You know decorative hardwareyou hardware everything coming
(26:27):
in color and probably the lastone and I'm hoping this is going
to be a trend that we'll see alittle bit more is I did start
(26:53):
to see aspects of aging in placethroughout the show floor and
there was an accessory supplierthere that I found had some
really cool grab bars thatdidn't look like grab bars for
showers, that you could tile thefront edge of them so that they
would blend in more, that theyweren't.
This, you know big, you knowstainless steel monstrosity in
the middle of your shower.
(27:13):
And one of the appliancemanufacturers did a full ADA
kind of suite.
Like you know, we're we'redoing a lot of um infill homes
and um ADU units and they did itall on um universal design or
(27:34):
aging in place design.
It was really cool, nice,bright colors, you know, and
they, they, they had, um, youknow, designed a really cool
desk area that had um that wasbuilt into a niche, that had
different slots that you couldpull the countertop out and then
slot it back in at differentheights.
So, um, you know they weredoing some cool stuff.
(27:56):
They'd raised the dishwasheragain, um, kind of.
In the late nineties I did a tonof raised dishwashers in my
designs.
I think I saw two or threeexamples of raised dishwashers.
So, you know, I think that'sreally positive that we all want
to stay in our homes longer anddesigners can start sneaking in
these aging in place featuresinto their designs.
(28:19):
It'll be a great trend.
So I think that kind of wrapsit up in my whirlwind Thursday
walkthrough of the show.
But yeah, it's going to beinteresting to see what next
year has to bring, and that'skind of my take on trends for
KBiz 2025.
Mirjam Lippuner (28:38):
I love that, Jen.
One question about the generalmood at the show.
General mood at the show.
I'm just curious because we'regetting some conflicting
information of what people thinkthe outlook is for the industry
.
What did you think that vibewas like?
Jan Rutgers (28:54):
Yeah, okay, so definitely, miriam and Jason
know I'm a Canadian, so there'sdefinitely things that we're
feeling here.
You know, here too, what I washearing talking to the industry
is that there is, you know, alittle bit of uncertainty that
(29:17):
prices of new home construction,you know has been high over the
last little while and nowfeeling that it will be going
higher.
So you know that could reallyslow down new home construction.
Again, this is just what I'mhearing from my colleagues and
(29:38):
clients maybe being a little bitmore hesitant, you know, to
take on, you know, a bigrenovation at this exact moment
until things, you know, settledown a little bit.
So you know that's kind ofmostly.
You know people are stilloptimistic and you know we still
have those influences.
(29:58):
You know from the pandemic, youknow where people were looking
more inward, looking at theirhomes, and you know wanting to
improve.
You know, I think the industry.
You know we're probably in agreat, you know a great time for
looking at the industry as awhole and maybe there is going
(30:20):
to be a little bit of a slowdownright now, but you know this is
a perfect time to get yourstaff up and training.
I think the I think the onething that that I was hearing
the most talking to people inthe industry especially, you
know, kind of Tuesday, wednesdayor my networking days going
(30:40):
around is that in the industryas a whole that there is a
little, there's a kind of achanging of the guard happening
and you've got a lot of veteransretiring.
I probably heard that fromevery dealer that I talked to.
Their veterans are retiring intheir showrooms and they're
bringing on new designers andwe've talked about this in this
(31:02):
podcast quite a bit in the past.
The chaos of choice can kind ofbe a bit overwhelming for them.
So most of the conversations Iwas having on the show floor was
you know, how are we going tohandle, how are we going to
train that next generation, youknow, of kitchen and bath
designers.
And you know what, if we'regetting a bit of a slowdown
right now, oh, this is the timeto probably jump in and do that
(31:25):
and get ready.
Things always change, you knowwe.
You know we cannot predict thefuture, but most people are
still going to want a house.
You know they're going to wantto live somewhere.
And you know, just, you knowmyself, I just, you know, in the
last couple of years Irenovated two bathrooms and my
kitchen and I know it changesyour life, you know, for the
(31:45):
better.
So I think that's going to bepositive.
So what?
What have you been hearing,miriam?
Mirjam Lippuner (31:51):
yeah, it's, I think a little bit of both, and
I'm like.
Our point, of course, also isit is a great time to be amping
up your marketing, because youcan put yourself in a much
better position, especially ifthere's uncertainty and other
people are pulling back by you.
At least keeping up what you'redoing, if not adding to it, is
(32:15):
a great way to counteract thatand puts you in the winning
position going forward.
Jan Rutgers (32:21):
Yeah, and for me it's differentiating.
How are you going todifferentiate your business, you
know, from other business?
So, yeah, marketing, pr,training, you know.
Even something you know andthis is probably a trend to talk
about you know it used to bethat, you know, with a kitchen
showroom, that you know a lot ofmanufacturers would just kind
(32:45):
of a lot of showrooms would justhave a few lines and they would
kind of have their niche.
They're going to be you got amid-end or high-end.
A big trend that I'm seeing isthat showrooms are diversifying,
that they're bringing in thatentry-level line, that mid-line
and that high-end line, beingable to offer, you know, product
to all the different cohortsthat are out there.
(33:06):
You know, because you know youdo have the millennials starting
to come on and they're going towant to buy.
They're going to want to buyproducts, but they may not have
the resources of the, of theboomers or the Gen Xs.
So you know, I think thatthat's kind of interesting
looking at how, how the industryneeds to evolve and to be able
(33:26):
to, to be able to look after allof our different types of
clientele.
And you know to your point, youknow, miriam, about you know,
ramping up on your marketing anddifferent things.
How are you going todifferentiate?
It's a great podcast to haveguys.
Mirjam Lippuner (33:41):
Yeah, we'll definitely have to talk about it
.
But, jens, thank you so muchfor sharing your insights with
us.
As every year, I'm like wherecan people find you and learn
more about you?
Jan Rutgers (33:58):
Yeah, so right now you can pop onto my website,
which is Vestibule spelledV-E-S-T-A-B-U-Lcom.
And the website is in fluxright now because I will be
launching a new kitchen and bathdesign industry professionals
(34:20):
membership site, so you'll see alittle bit about it there.
But if you want to reach out tome if you've got any questions,
you just pop onto my contactpage on the website.
Mirjam Lippuner (34:32):
Awesome, perfect.
Well, thank you so much, jen.
We'll see you soon and we'llsee everybody else again in two
weeks here at DesignerDiscussions.
Maria Martin (34:40):
See ya, Did you know that your client learns 80%
of what they will know aboutyou before they ever contact you
?
Now imagine when your potentialclient searches for the perfect
kitchen remodel.
Will they find you or yourcompetition?
We can help you make sure it'syou.
Our Designer DiscussionsAcademy membership with your
(35:01):
favorite podcast hosts provideweekly steps to simplify your
marketing and boost yourbusiness.
Sign up atdesignerdiscussionscom or follow
the link in the show notes.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of Designer Discussions
and all of the helpfulinformation.
Subscribe to our podcast, leaveus a review and share it with
your friends.
We look forward to having youback next week.
(35:23):
For more information on thepodcast and the marketing studio
, visit designerdiscussionscomand follow us on social media.
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