All Episodes

June 5, 2025 16 mins

When economic uncertainty looms, most businesses make the critical mistake of slashing their marketing budgets first. But what if that's exactly the wrong move? In this illuminating episode, Jason shares battle-tested strategies to keep your design business visible and thriving during economic downturns—without breaking the bank.

Drawing from his wealth of marketing expertise, Jason walks through practical, low-cost approaches that design professionals can implement immediately. From website optimization and Google Business Profile maintenance to email list segmentation and automated follow-up systems, these strategies require minimal financial investment while delivering maximum impact. The common thread? Strategic thinking and consistent effort outweigh throwing money at marketing problems.

The episode takes a fascinating turn when Miriam shares insights from her time at Kohler Company, revealing how their visionary leader Herbert Kohler Sr. approached recessions differently. While competitors retreated from trade shows and advertising, Kohler maintained visibility—allowing them to capture market share while others disappeared from consumers' consciousness. This real-world example powerfully illustrates why maintaining your marketing presence when others pull back might be your most strategic business move.

Whether you're feeling the economic pinch now or simply want to prepare your design business for future uncertainty, this episode provides a clear roadmap for recession-proofing your marketing. Ready to implement these strategies and potentially emerge stronger while competitors struggle? Subscribe to Designer Discussions for more insights that help your design business thrive in any economic climate.

If you would like to get the links and show notes for this episode, click on the link below:​

Transform your marketing with Designer Discussions Academy. In weekly face-to-face sessions, we equip busy business owners with cutting-edge PR strategies, marketing insights, and time-saving tools to not just work in your business, but on your business. Join us to outshine competitors and elevate your business.

Join us for our weekly live sessions and workshops: https://www.designerdiscussionsmarketing.studio/pages/academy

Designer Discussions is an educational interior design podcast on marketing, PR and related business topics. We also provide in-depth, actionable products in the Marketing Studio including time-saving templates and guides to help design professionals grow their businesses.

Download our FREE Client Avatar Guide https://designerdiscussionsmarketing.studio/store.

Designer Discussions is a partnership of three experts: Jason Lockhart, CEO of KABMS; Maria Martin, founder of DesignAppy; and Mirjam Lippuner, founder of Get Ink DIY




Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mirjam Lippuner (00:00):
Welcome to Designer Discussions with Jason,
maria and Miriam.
Today, jason is going to talkto us about how to
recession-proof your marketingplan.

Maria Martin (00:14):
Welcome to the Designer Discussions podcast
with.
Jason Miriam and Maria, wherewe talk about marketing, pr and
business advice for designprofessionals.

Jason Lockhart (00:27):
Thanks, miriam.
This is actually a presentationthat I gave last month.
We had talked about how torecession-proof your marketing
plan.
This was also a podcast that wehad.
Similar to this is how torecession-proof your business.
It was way back in episode 67,if you want to relook at that.

(00:49):
And then we also did an episodelast month on what is the first
thing to do when your businessstarts to slow down.
So that ties all into how torecession proof your marketing
to how to recession-proof yourmarketing.
Usually what happens and this isa hot topic now because of
what's happening with thetariffs, what's happening with

(01:09):
the economy, and a lot ofbusinesses are uneasy about what
may happen in the industry.
So this is one of the topicsthat I've been asked to talk
about is like, when all this hashappened, what happens to your
marketing?
Most often, what happens isthat marketing gets the shaft.
That's what happens most of thetime is that it's viewed as an

(01:34):
unnecessary expense and it getscut.
Because when that happens,often on the marketing agency
side we see a lot of clientsthat either cut back on the spin
or they pause the services orwhatever that may be, but often
marketing is one of the firstthings cut, which actually
should not be that way, and I'mgoing to have Miriam talk about

(01:56):
what her from the Kohler companysaid, and you know his views on
that and his views on that.
But ultimately, when times likethis happen, you need to really
look at your marketing, becausethat's your brand awareness
that's going to help you throughthese times and that's going to
help you claim some of themarket share from your

(02:17):
competitors.
That will inevitably also cutmarketing.
So what I had talked about inepisode 67, email marketing, I
talked about SEO, I talked aboutpaid ads and I talked about DIY
.
Now, some of that still appliesnow.
But what I'm going to reallyemphasize is most of the

(02:40):
marketing strategies you can dowithout having to spend a lot of
money.
So I'm not going to talk aboutpaid ads, but if you are running
paid ads, what you should doand which I also talked about in
that episode is look at what ishappening with your ads to make
sure you're not overspending orspending unnecessary money.
So you shouldn't completely cutback on ads if you are, if you

(03:04):
do have an ad account out thereor you are running either
Facebook ads or Google AdWordsor anything like that.
But what you should do is takestock of what is running.
Look at your ad copy, look atyour ad campaigns to see if what
you're doing is working and howyou can optimize it the right
way.
So that's what you need doingis working and how you can
optimize it the right way.
So that's what you need to lookat.

(03:26):
But what I'm going to actuallytalk about today what you should
do anyway, but really, if youstart to do this now, whenever a
recession hits, you'll be aheadof the game.
And it all starts with yourwebsite, and you've heard me
talk about this over and over,and you've heard me talk about

(03:47):
this over and over.
Your website is your hub.
If you make sure thateverything is up to date on your
website, you're ahead of thegame.
Oftentimes, we see is that thewebsite is one of the entities
that is left behind.
If you look at your website now, how old are the projects?
How old are the images on yoursite?
If they're over a year old,that's too old, because you're

(04:09):
working on projects constantlyand you need to have your most
up to date work on your website.
Projects on my site what is thecontent like?
Is it actually talking to anyof the new projects we've done,

(04:29):
any of the new services that weoffer.
Is any of that on your website?
If not, you need to update thatand optimize it.
So making sure that everythingis up to date, I'm telling you,
will put you ahead of the game,because a lot of businesses out
there are relying on websitesthat have old projects or old

(04:49):
information.
So by ensuring that everythingis up to date, like I said,
you're ahead of the game.
Next, which also ties into SEO,but I'm not going to talk about
SEO because that takes a lot oftime Google Business Profile,
gbp.
That's another one that, if youlook at your profile to ensure
that everything is up to date,again, it's another property

(05:12):
similar to your website.
Look at it to ensure everythingis up to date.
Making sure all of the servicesyou offer on there and they're
explained, because when you fillout your profile, oftentimes I
see business owners originallyopen up the profile.
You may have up to 500characters to actually explain

(05:33):
it.
They explain it in like onesentence.
Use all of the characters, useall of the space that you have
to explain it, becauseoftentimes you'll add in
keywords that will trigger asearch from either a homeowner
or one of the prospects that youwant to attract to you.
So make sure that your profileis completely filled out.

(05:54):
Who you are, what you do, yourservices, your office hours, all
of that is completely filledout.
Also, you want to treat yourGoogle business profile as a
social media profile.
Post to it at least two tothree times a month.
Google business profileactually ends up in the maps, so
that's how you could gettriggered to get anybody within

(06:18):
the 15 mile radius of youroffice location can actually
find you on maps and call you oremail you just from that.
So, again, by making sure it'sup to date, having up to date
images, and you're postingregularly to it, you're ahead of
the game.
Ok, next, social media.

(06:38):
Now I'm not going to talk aboutthe posting aspect.
I might actually talk aboutwhat I talked about in that
episode that I had told youabout, episode 141,.
Re-listen to that episode whereI talked about analyzing your
competition, because when youanalyze the competition, it's
going to give you insights intothings that you may not be doing

(07:00):
or the things that you can doto help get you ahead of your
competition.
Re-listen to episode 141.
I went into what you need to doand all that in there.
Next, email list.
So I had talked a little bitabout email in episode 67, but
what I would add on to here nowis making sure that you are

(07:23):
actually segmenting your list.
So when I had talked originally, it was about just having an
email list.
So now I'm assuming that youhave an email list, if you do
not listen back to that episodewhere I talked about the
importance of having an emaillist.
So once you have that emaillist, now you want to look at
the list and see, okay, who'sactually opening these emails.

(07:43):
Whatever email platform youhave, you should have the paid
version of the platform, not thefree, because the paid version
will have you see all theanalytics that will let you see
who's opening up the email, whenthey're opening up, where
they're opening it up, from whatthey're clicking on, how long
are they looking at.

(08:04):
So all of this is informationthat you need to look and
analyze, because you need tolook at all of the individuals
that are actually opening youremail list and if they're
interacting with it.
You need to understand why,what's happening, what you need
to do more of and less of, andfor anybody that's not opening
up your email.
You need to segment them out ofyour overall email list and

(08:28):
send them an email asking themif they're still interested in
your information, or you need todrop them off your list.
Okay, and you'll be surprisedby just asking the question are
you still interested?
Is this information stilluseful to you?
Some of the individuals willreply and they'll give you

(08:48):
information that will help youunderstand.
Ok, this is what I'm notproviding to this segment of the
list that I may need to add onto.
One of the other things I wantto talk about is follow up.
One of the main reasons that wefind that business owners lose
projects from potentialprospects is because of the

(09:11):
follow up process.
You'll be surprised.
That is the number one reasonthat prospects are lost is
because of the follow up.
So making sure that you have afollow-up process in place is
vital.
What does that mean?
A you should have some type ofCRM.
Whatever it is, I don't care,there's hundreds of them out

(09:32):
there.
You should have one In the CRM.
It should have some type ofautomation where, whenever you
receive a lead, it can do anautomated follow-up to say thank
you for that, and you can setup automations within the CRM on
how to follow up with aprospect after you know a
certain amount of days, acertain amount of weeks, but

(09:54):
that follow-up processoftentimes will turn into jobs.
You'll be surprised.
Just by setting up an automatedfollow-up process can help you
in closing more sales.
If you don't know how to do anyof this, whatever CRM you have,
talk with them because theywill know how to help you set

(10:14):
all of that up.
But having a CRM is vital tothe follow-up process.
And then, lastly, trackingMaking sure you have some type
of tracking in place.
So at a minimum, you need tohave Google Analytics, google
Search Console on your websiteto ensure that you know what is

(10:34):
happening on your site, whocomes to your site, when they
come, how often they come, whatdo they click on, how often they
stay come, how often they come,what do they click on, how
often they stay, what pages arethey on your site, what keywords
drove them to your site.
All of this is information thatis helping you understand what
is driving the traffic to yourwebsite and how to get more
individuals to come to your site.

(10:57):
Tracking is vital because if youknow what is working and what's
not, now you can spend yourtime wisely on what is working
and not on what is not.
That way, when a recession hits, or when anything hits, you
know what you can cut outbecause you are actually
tracking, you actually have thefollow up process in place and

(11:19):
you're implementing a lot ofthese strategies that I'm
talking about Now.
What I had talked about today,nothing really will cost you in
terms of dollars and cents.
It will cost you a little bitof time, but a lot of what I had
talked about you should bedoing anyway, but if you do half

(11:39):
of what I talked about, you'llbe ahead of the game.
Ok, I just wanted Miriam totalk a little bit about because
I had talked earlier on.
I was going to have her talkabout what her said when she was
at the Kohler company, or whathe said about how he handled
recession, so I'm going to lether talk a little bit about that
.

Mirjam Lippuner (11:56):
Yes.
So, as you probably all know,kohler company has a really
great brand, right, everybodyknows the Kohler brand and the
reason for that is becauseHerbert Kohler Sr who is the
late he passed away two yearsago I want to say last year, the

(12:17):
year before.
He was the visionary leader ofthe company and building the
brand was the most importantthing for him because he
understood that that was enoughare probably going to remember.
But all the big companies werescaling back.

(12:47):
A lot of companies pulled outof big trade shows like KBIS.
A lot of companies pulled backon running ads in trade and
consumer magazines definitely onTV.
Running ads in trade andconsumer magazines definitely on
TV.

(13:07):
And Herb, mr Kohler, as we usedto call him, he was a big
believer in not doing that.
That's not to say that he Imean it's a big company like any
other.
They watch their bottom lines,but he would rather cut back on
other other things than onspending money on marketing and
pr, which are really which isreally what builds your brand,

(13:31):
right, it's not sales.
It doesn't bring in any moneydirectly, um, but it it.
It builds your brand and yourreputation.
And so kohler was still wouldstill show up at, like KBIS,
with the massively huge booththat any and all of you have
seen, if you ever have been tothe show and his belief was that

(13:54):
he wasn't just trying to cementthe position that he had in the
marketplace, but he believedthat this was the time you could
actually gain share from yourcompetitors, because they didn't
do the same thing.
They all pulled back andstopped showing up in the media
and all these other places, soKohler would be there to swoop

(14:15):
in and pick up all the customersthat were looking for product
at that time.
So, yeah, so that's.
That was his philosophy, andobviously the company seems to
be thriving still, so it works.

Jason Lockhart (14:31):
Yeah, thanks, miriam.
I just want her to hear thatbecause, as I began, like I said
, what I see oftentimes is thatmost remodeling company design
companies, when a recession hits, they cut marketing.
That's like number one.
We hear that all the time onour end because I own a
marketing agency and that'sultimately what happens.

(14:51):
But, as you can hear from thatexample, that hurts you in terms
of the brand awareness and youcan start to get some of the
market share from yourcompetitors, and if you start
and stop marketing, it's harderto regain the momentum that you
would have lost by stopping.

(15:12):
So, even if you have to cut backto it out completely usually is
not advanced, and so that's whyI wanted her to talk about that
.
So, again, I just went overseveral strategies that will not
cost you any money, hardly anymoney at all, but it will cost a
little bit of your time.
But at the end of the day, ifyou implement a lot of these

(15:32):
strategies, it will help yousurvive any type of downturn in
the economy because these aretried and true methods.
It will help you with the brandawareness, it will help you
with your clientele and, at theend of the day, it will help you
turn prospects into projects.
Okay, so that's what I want totalk about today.

(15:53):
So we hope to hear from you intwo weeks on Designer
Discussions.

Maria Martin (15:58):
Did you know that your client learns 80% of what
they will know about you beforethey ever contact you?
Now imagine when your potentialclient searches for the perfect
kitchen remodel.
Will they find you or yourcompetition?
We can help you make sure it'syou.
Our Designer DiscussionsAcademy membership with your
favorite podcast hosts provideweekly steps to simplify your

(16:21):
marketing and boost yourbusiness.
Sign up atdesignerdiscussionscom or follow
the link in the show notes.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of Designer Discussions
and all of the helpfulinformation.
Subscribe to our podcast, leaveus a review and share it with
your friends.
We look forward to having youback next week.
For more information on thepodcast and the marketing studio

(16:43):
, visit designerdiscussionscomand follow us on social media.
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

United States of Kennedy
Stuff You Should Know

Stuff You Should Know

If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.

Dateline NBC

Dateline NBC

Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.