July 27, 2025 • 34 mins
Welcome to episode 38 of the Designing with Love podcast! In this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Shane Strand, an instructional designer who works in the higher education sector.
Ever wondered how educators transform into instructional designers? Shane Strand takes us through his fascinating journey from high school teacher to curriculum coordinator to instructional designer in higher education. What begins as a story of career transition unfolds into a masterclass on navigating the evolving landscape of instructional design.
Shane reveals how technology became his gateway into the field: "What really drew me was the technology aspect—all this e-learning technology, seeing these online courses." His experience working in an alternative school with learning management systems sparked a passion that continues to grow as he explores new tools and possibilities in online learning.
The conversation delves deep into professional development strategies that every aspiring instructional designer should know. Shane emphasizes the power of online communities, recommending resources from industry leaders like Devlin Peck and Tim Slade. "I probably learned more from Devlin Peck about on-the-job skills instructional designers need," he shares, highlighting how these connections can supplement formal education.
We explore the versatility of instructional design across sectors—corporate training versus higher education, the evolution of models like ADDIE and SAM, and how artificial intelligence is revolutionizing course development. Jackie and Shane discuss how instructional designers often become "accidental instructional designers" who discover they've been designing instruction all along without realizing it.
For those entering the field or looking to advance, Shane offers practical advice: "There's always new tools popping up. Almost all of them have free trials, so be brave and test them out." This spirit of continuous experimentation and learning emerges as the key to success in this dynamic profession where technology and educational theory intersect in increasingly innovative ways.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Designing with
Love podcast.
I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you
information, tips and tricks asan instructional designer.
Hello, GCU students, alumni andfellow educators, welcome to
episode 38 of the Designing withLove podcast.
(00:21):
Today, I have the pleasure ofinterviewing Shane Strand, an
instructional designer who worksin the higher education sector.
Welcome, Shane.
Shane Strand (00:29):
Jackie, thanks for having me.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:30):
You're welcome.
Thank you for taking the timetoday to come on my podcast and
talk to some of my studentstoday and also others around the
world.
This has become a worldwidepodcast.
It's great.
Shane Strand (00:58):
Wonderful.
So can you tell us a little bitabout yourself?
I began before even finding outwhat instructional design was.
I was a high school teacher forsix years and then I later
transitioned into an assistantprincipal role.
I did that for three years andthen I eventually merged into a
curriculum coordinator role.
(01:19):
After that third position insecondary education, I was ready
to find something else.
That third position insecondary education, I was ready
to find something else, and I'djust been learning about what
instructional design is and whata career in that could be.
So I would say I found out moreabout it as I was taking some
(01:40):
graduate coursework at NorthernArizona University.
I was majoring in educationalleadership.
I'd taken a couple courses ineducational technology and then
that's where I was really opento that whole other field called
instructional design.
Yeah, like I think a lot ofpeople just still don't know
(02:02):
what instructional design isunless they're in it.
It's one of those things whereif someone asks you, oh, what do
you do?
And you say you're a structuraldesigner, they are a little bit
perplexed by it and they don'tknow what that is.
So you have to explain it alittle bit.
But it took a while to find it.
And well, now I'm here.
(02:23):
That's great, yes.
Jackie Pelegrin (02:23):
I noticed great .
Yes, I noticed that too.
When people ask me what kind ofwork do you do?
And I say instructional design.
If you're in person with themor over the phone or something
on video, and you say that, andthey have this perplexed look
and they're like what does thatmean?
Yeah, I even had someone that Iinterviewed a couple weeks ago
(02:46):
and he is a math educator, he'staught K through 12 in higher
education, and he asked me whatI do and I said instructional
design and he said, oh, what isthat?
And when I explained it to himand they tend to pick up on it
and they're like that's whatthat is.
So, yeah, that's kind ofinteresting how you you are.
You were already doing it, youjust didn't know it.
And that's pretty amazing whenyou kind of stumbled upon it,
(03:07):
right, and didn't expect it.
Shane Strand (03:09):
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
And, like you said, you'redoing it already as a teacher,
as an educator.
You don't even realize it, andthen it's also really exciting
when you realize, oh my gosh,like I have a lot of skills
already that are transferable.
This is great.
It's like you're already have afoot in the field, without even
knowing it.
Jackie Pelegrin (03:28):
Right, that's amazing, yeah, and a lot of the
students that we teach in thisprogram I don't know if your
students mentioned it, but a lotof my students do too in K
through 12 or higher education,if they're already in the fields
that, they became kind of anaccidental instructional
designer and didn't know it.
So it's pretty, pretty cool.
Yeah, that's neat, great.
(03:50):
So you kind of mentioned this alittle bit, but what kind of
made you become interested inthe position that you're in now
in higher education and evenjust the industry as a whole?
Was there something inparticular that really sparked
your, your interest in it?
Shane Strand (04:06):
I mean, yeah.
So I would say, while I was insecondary education, I'd say my,
like my second year of teaching, I I started to realize this
was not entirely what I wantedto do.
You know, long-term same withthat educational leadership, I
just always thought there's justsomething more interesting out
(04:26):
there.
Like that fit me better.
And as I started discovering,like, what instructional design
was, I mean like I had I starteddoing my own research, you know
, reading articles about it,taking those ed tech classes
that I mentioned.
But what really drew me was justthe technology aspect, like all
this e-learning technology,seeing these online courses that
(04:49):
are out there.
When I was in secondaryeducation, half the years I
spent as a teacher was in analternative school setting where
we actually it was a hybridsetting where students came in
person but they worked oncomputers.
We had a learning managementsystem.
They worked online on theircourses, and I've just always
been intrigued by just onlinelearning.
(05:12):
And then it's booming so fastthe different, the LMSs,
learning management systems,what they can do nowadays, how
sophisticated they become, andthen all these different
technologies like courseauthoring tools, multimedia that
you can use to enhance themeven further.
So that just really piqued myinterest and it's just like a
(05:33):
whole new frontier that's beingexplored and it's rapidly
expanding too.
So that's what really drew meExciting things you can do with
these new tech tools coming out.
Jackie Pelegrin (05:44):
And then, of course, there's AI.
Shane Strand (05:46):
And then that's revolutionary itself, right.
Yeah, that's what really drewme to it, and it's just there's
different industries.
There's the corporate world,where it's more focused on
training and skill development,and then there's higher ed,
where we're building degreeprograms.
(06:06):
It's just a very excitingindustry and that's what really
drew me to it.
Jackie Pelegrin (06:12):
Right.
Yeah, it's amazing because it'sa field that doesn't seem to
grow old, right, it's evergreenbecause as you mentioned.
There's corporate, there'shigher education, military,
nonprofit.
There's so many industries thatwe can go into and sectors that
we can branch out into.
So it's amazing because Istarted in higher education and
(06:34):
then I went to corporate for awhile and then I came back to
higher education so I bouncedback.
So I think education is where Ilike to be, but I also like
corporate too, because it givesyou those opportunities
sometimes to learn somedifferent skills that you may
not get in the higher educationsector.
So it's kind of interestingbecause when I worked at
PetSmart and I did my contractorposition there, they had me
(06:57):
learning InDesign and all theAdobe tools that I didn't learn
at my other position, my firstposition as instructional
designer.
I was like, oh, we didn't haveInDesign because the Adobe
package we had didn't includeInDesign, but it included
Captivate.
And then it was, yeah, so it'svery interesting, and they were
moving away from Captivate toStoryline.
So I was like, oh, that'sinteresting, so it's kind of
(07:19):
neat.
And then you get to learndifferent facets of corporate
and how the inner workings areof it and how it differs from
education, but there's alsosimilar things too.
So it's very interesting thatwe can branch into different
areas and learn the differentelements of it, and I think it
makes us more well-rounded asinstructional designers because,
even like where you and I workat GCE, we can get involved in
(07:42):
professional development andtraining and be able to help
adult learners still right andhelp with that aspect of it.
So it's really neat to be ableto still branch out because I
feel like we have to keepourselves abreast of all the
different skills, especially thetechnology right.
It's always changing yeah.
Shane Strand (08:01):
And that's a great point.
Just, it is a lot there's.
It's growing and changing soquickly.
At the same time, thetechnology AI just popping up
has changed everything and then,yeah, it's hard to keep up with
all the new technologies cominginto play and then choosing
which one might be better fordifferent things.
Like I can start some of thosethings that are prototyping
coming into play and thenchoosing which one might be
(08:23):
better for different things,like um right instructional
designers are prototyping.
It's like there's so manydifferent tech tools for
prototyping and it's like, well,which one do you go with?
And so, yeah, it's it's veryinteresting and a little
overwhelming at the same timeyeah, that's true.
Jackie Pelegrin (08:39):
It's yeah, knowing which ones are good and
kind of, in a way, limitingyourself.
That's in some ways because youdon't want to go into learn
everything.
And then you're like, oh well,I don't think I'm going to be
able to use all that.
Shane Strand (08:51):
So yeah, right.
Jackie Pelegrin (08:52):
Yeah, choosing that, yeah.
So you mentioned a little bitabout AI Are there and we can
expand upon that too.
Shane Strand (09:11):
Are there any other specific areas in which
you're expanding your knowledgeand skills in the field right
now?
Besides, you know and we caninclude ai as well if you want
yeah, um, well, I mean, likewhat we're doing here with um
using ai when developing ourcourses or in and even at the
program level.
I saw what you were doing withcompetencies, with um coming up
descriptions, flushing outassignments in course
development.
It's amazing what it can do andjust you know, just expanding
on those possibilities.
(09:31):
But in addition to AI I'mlooking at, I'm also looking at
other skill sets out there.
What's interesting is lookingat different instructional
design opportunities that pop upand then what other
instructional designers aretalking about instructional
design opportunities that pop up, and then what other
instructional designers aretalking about, like I know, um
getting to know a bit of uh code, how to code html css I know
(09:52):
some instructional designers dothat that's awesome
yeah, and not something, um, Ido in my current position, but I
know that a lot ofinstructional designers that
work with those trulysophisticated course authoring
tools like Articulate Storyline,I know there's a way to use
coding to enhance that further,to just go the extra mile with
(10:14):
those course creations.
So there are so many littleniches out there to explore and
I think it's more like, based oneverything I've read and seen,
more corporate that kind of hasthose tools and wants those
skills.
But also LMS is that coding andprogramming skill set would
factor into there as well.
(10:34):
So I have no skill in that areawhatsoever.
So that's why it's interestingto me.
There's other parts like visualdesign, how to really make
courses look visually appealingand then also follow those
principles of multimedia toreally just make the experience
the best it could possibly be.
There's just so many differentthings to look into.
(10:56):
But I would say, yeah, in termsof what, how I'm looking to
expand my own skill set would bejust kind of looking to see
what all is out there, whateverybody's talking about, and
just kind of like narrowing downdifferent things to explore
more.
Jackie Pelegrin (11:11):
That's great, yeah, because, as they say, even
when you land your dream joband you become an instructional
designer, it doesn't stop there,right?
You have to continue to evolveand learn those things, and so
it's a constant thing, and Ieven read last year and I
watched a video too from DelvinPeck's website, because he has,
(11:32):
if you're probably familiar withDelvin Peck, I share a lot of
his videos in my classes and hehas that boot camp for the
instructional designers that areup and coming instructional
designers that are up and coming.
And he had a gentleman that wentthrough that and he talked
about his portfolio and how it'simportant to keep that going.
That was one thing I didn't doin my master's degree.
(11:52):
Once I was done with theprogram, I didn't touch my
portfolio and so I was.
I thought to myself, oh my gosh, that's he's right, because it
does become a marketing tool andwe can't just abandon it.
We have to continually work onit, because you just never know
what could happen and whereyou're where you're at, because
when I was at PetSmart and I wasdoing the contracting, I had
(12:14):
tried twice to get hired atPetSmart and I got turned down.
And so then I found an agencythat does creative hiring.
It's through Robert Half, it'scalled the Creative Group.
I'm pretty sure they're stillaround and they said, oh, we
work with PetSmart and we canhelp you.
And I thought, oh great, youguys can get.
At least that way I can getmyself in the door.
And they said, exactly, if youcan do it for six months and
(12:37):
show that you can do the workand you can have that expertise,
then, yeah, you increase yourchances of getting hired.
So I was like, oh well, this isgreat, I'll get my foot in the
door.
But then, at that six monthmark, the owners had decided to
sell PetSmart and they got ridof all the contractors.
And then in the learning anddevelopment department, where I
(12:58):
worked as a contractor, they gotrid of 95% of the individuals
in that department.
There was a lady that was there17 years as an instructional
designer and they they fired her, let her go, and I thought, oh
my goodness, all they kept wasone instructional designer, one
learning developer and the and amanager, and that was it.
They had like 20 people indepartment and they got rid of
(13:20):
everybody but three people andthey just reorganized the whole
entire, not just that departmentbut a lot of other areas too at
the corporate.
And I was like wow.
So it was disappointing BecauseI thought that's what I wanted
to do.
I wanted to work for PetSmart.
That was something I justcraved to do, that because I
love the pet industry and it wascombining both loves.
(13:43):
That I really had a passion for.
Yeah, and so when that happened,I felt like it was just a just
like a stab in the back for me,in a sense, and it just just
almost like tearing out a pieceof my heart and I'm like, no,
but then I found that.
But then that recruiter said tome well, go go over to GCU.
I used to work at GCU.
So I was like, okay, I'll giveit a try.
(14:05):
But she's like curriculumdevelopment is different from
employee training development,so just be aware of that.
And so, yeah, it's interestinghow your career can shift and
change, and so it's always goodto be ready for that.
You just never know.
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
So what are some tips andadvice you can share with those
(14:26):
who are currently in themaster's program in
instructional design at GrandCanyon University?
Shane Strand (14:48):
design and really I really knew for sure that was
gonna be my my calling by justwhat I learned in online
communities and networking.
Um, devlin peck I have watchedso many of his videos.
He's got a lot of that freeyoutube content and, like you
said, he's got that right now.
Um, I I think I highlyrecommend anybody who's
interested in becoming aninstructional designer or who
currently is, who wants toupscale, watch Devin Beck videos
(15:11):
.
I mean, he's very thorough onhow he covers different pieces
of it.
He's got all kinds of contentfree and then content you can
pay for, and I have purchasedsome of his courses as well.
He's got courses on how to useArticulate Storyline, how to
build an e-learning portfolio,as you mentioned and just how to
make yourself more marketableAll kinds of different things
(15:35):
and, as I was talking about,even coding HTML and CSS.
He's even got content on thatas well.
But I found just what you canfind out there in the World Wide
Web with these onlinecommunities.
Those are huge.
And then there's alsocommunities.
Well, there's LinkedIn groups.
Devlin's got his own community.
There's tons of others outthere too, and you see what
(15:55):
other instructional designersare doing in different
industries, and that just reallyexpands your knowledge, and
then you can even network withthese people and then you can
even share some stuff andcontent.
You're working on ideas youhave and get their feedback, and
that's huge.
I think you can never go wrongwith that.
And then the other thing Iwould add would be there's a lot
(16:22):
of great books out there.
One of the first books I readfor to become an instructional
designer was called thee-learning designers handbook by
Tim Slade.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:35):
Yes, I have that book.
Shane Strand (16:36):
You do yeah.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:37):
Yeah, that was one of the first books I read
too.
Yeah, I love that.
Shane Strand (16:40):
That was just an easy read it's completely.
It's like the perfect introbook.
And then another one I'dstarted and hadn't have not gone
around to finishing would beMap it by Kathy Moore.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:53):
Oh, I've heard of that book.
Shane Strand (16:55):
Yeah, I'd like to read that one too tailored
towards the corporate world andjust but just how to map and
identify.
You know what the problem isand what the training need is.
There's just so manyinteresting resources out there,
so my recommendation is to belook at all the literature out
(17:16):
there, see, find onlinecommunities with other designers
, see what they're doing andthey're all sharing something.
Right, yeah, that all sharingsomething, right?
Jackie Pelegrin (17:24):
Yeah, that's so true.
Yeah, and it's interesting too.
When you mentioned Tim Slade, Ithought of I share some of his
videos to my classes because hehas the eLearner Designers
Academy and all these differentvideos.
So whenever I'm looking forsomething for my, I have the
classroom assessment technique.
Of course we're we have to dothose every week.
I have the classroom assessmenttechnique.
Of course, we have to do thoseevery week, but I also have a
(17:45):
Media Monday post that I do andit's based upon media, whether
it's a video or an infographicor something like that, and it
really gets my studentsinterested in all of that and
they get to learn a little bitmore than maybe they would have
with the content that's alreadyin the course, already built.
So it's really fun.
And so most of the time, that'swhat I'm sharing is Dalvin's
(18:05):
videos and Tim's videos for themost part, because they, like
you said, they have such a richlibrary of things on their
YouTube channel and differentelements that you can grab from
that just make it such a easygo-to.
And why have us reinvent theinformation, right, if it's
already out there?
Just be able to utilize what'salready there, exactly.
Shane Strand (18:27):
And I think that's great that you share those
videos with your class.
I should do that more with mineas well, because then that gets
our students more, makes themmore aware that's YouTube.
Oh wow, who's this person?
And all they got to do is startlooking more into it and
they'll find a vast amount ofresources for further
exploration.
It's amazing.
I'm sure at this point, devlinmust have like 100 different
(18:50):
videos by now.
Jackie Pelegrin (18:51):
Probably.
Yeah, it's amazing, yeah, andI've also noticed there's a few
other different podcasts likethis that are instructional
design type of podcasts whereit's a mixture of topical based,
like what I do, and theninterviews like this, and it's
very interesting to see whatelse is out there.
And the main reason I startedthis podcast not a lot of people
(19:12):
know is because with onlinelearning you don't get that
opportunity to have experts comeinto the classroom like you do
on a ground campus, right in aphysical classroom.
And so when I I actually when Iwent to Walden university
that's a hundred percent onlineand I wrote on a note in a
notebook I actually in a onenote notebook I wrote down some
(19:33):
of the things that I wanted tosee as a student in that program
and I said to myself and Iwrote this down, I still have it
If I ever become a teacher, ifI ever teach higher education at
any point in time.
I never thought I would, but ifI ever do, these are the things
that I would want to do as aninstructor, and that was one of
the things was to have a onlinecommunity or something where I
(19:55):
could mimic in some way thatopportunity of having guests
come in, and so that's, and so Ithought, why don't I do a
podcast?
Ooh, that would be great, andyeah.
So lo and behold, I didn'texpect two years later to still
be going.
But it's amazing because theowner of Podmatch which I will
tag Podmatch on he said that 95%of podcasts fail within the
(20:18):
first year because it's hard tomaintain, it's hard to get the
guests, and so.
But with Podmatch I've beenable to, you know, get more of
those interviews and it's beenamazing, and then experts like
yourself that I work with to beable to do that.
So I think that's been able tojust be a game changer all
(20:41):
around.
Shane Strand (20:42):
So I didn't even realize that 95% mile.
Jackie Pelegrin (20:47):
That's, yeah, it's crazy, isn't it, that many
fail.
You know, they start and thenthey just can't maintain it or
they just don't get enoughaudience and they say even it's
not just about the download,that's about who you're, who
you're connecting with and whoyour listeners are.
So building that community it'sanother way to build a
community too.
So it's it's pretty neat tohave those different ways right
(21:09):
that we can.
We can build that community ofindividuals.
Shane Strand (21:12):
so you never know, maybe someday I'll be able to
interview devlin pack ortemplate maybe yeah and you know
that when you, when you do lookat how many big, influential
instructional designers can youcount on one hand?
I know devlin, tim slade, kathymoore is another one, connie
malamed would be one yes, oh mygoodness.
(21:35):
Yeah, like we were talking aboutearlier, it's just it still
almost feels like it's stilllike a new field.
So I think, when you like, Ihave tried looking for podcasts
to listen to just to you know,when I got to have to go do a
long drive, I want to have apodcast playing so I can like at
least just continue enrichingmyself with knowledge.
And there there isn't, therearen't that many options out
(21:57):
there for instructionaldesigners, and I mean it's still
like it's almost like that kindof like a hidden field still.
Jackie Pelegrin (22:03):
So yeah, it's very interesting because it
started off in the middle, withthe military right During World
War II.
That's where the historystarted, with the army, and it's
hard to believe that it startedthat long ago.
And there's so many prominentpeople that develop these models
and theories and when you lookback on that you're like, oh, my
(22:23):
goodness, yes, like Bloom'staxonomy started in the 1960s by
Benjamin Bloom.
And when some of my studentslearn that, they're like, really
it's been around that long, andI'm like, yes, it has.
It's amazing and Addy's beenaround since the 60s.
And we're still using it todayyeah, it's a tried and true
(22:44):
method, although some people youknow attribute it to taking too
long when you have rapiddevelopment.
So of course, sam came along tohelp with more of that
collaboration and things likethat.
I it's interesting because Ithink you and I um in our
position and with the otherinstructional designers that we
work.
I think we do like a hybrid ofAddy and Sam, because we're
(23:06):
doing constant iteration.
Right, we're working withsubject matter experts, we're
collaborating with them.
So I don't feel like we'redoing a full Addy or a full Sam.
I feel like we're doing alittle bit of both.
What do you think?
Kind of a hybrid?
Shane Strand (23:18):
Yeah, I'd say so, yeah, yeah, definitely.
And I mean there's, and there'ssome, there's others out there
too, there's Agile.
Jackie Pelegrin (23:26):
Oh yeah, exactly 4CID is out there, which
is good for higher ed.
So, yeah, cause it's, it'sinteresting.
And what's cool is episode 26is where I talk about the top 10
instructional design models andtheories and that's actually
bumped up to the most popularone right now.
It's in like the 60s orsomething like that, and I
released that about a month agoand it's and what I did was I
(23:50):
actually went to chat GPT and Iasked chat GPT, what are the top
10 instructional design modelsand tools right now?
And that's when it gave me thelist.
And then I asked chat GPT I waslike, okay, great, can you give
me like a little outline to helpget me started?
Chat GPT I was like, okay,great, can you give me like a
little outline to help get mestarted?
So it's funny because I use AInow for the podcast, so I use it
(24:11):
to generate topic ideas, I useit to help me with my outline
and things like that, and then,of course, as we mentioned
before we started this, Iutilize it for being able to
edit these episodes and thenalso with the creation of it
with my hosting platform.
So it's amazing how AI justtouches everything and it helps
make our work easier.
But I love how we can still goto those tried and true methods
(24:34):
right and those models and toolsthat we know work are evidence
based, and be able to infusethat technology in it in the
same light.
Shane Strand (24:43):
Yeah, and AI, I mean it helps us in our current
roles as instructional designersand then with our courses and
then with your podcast.
It just helps speed things up.
So I mean that probably helps.
I know you do teach a lot ofcourses in addition to doing
instructional design, so havingthe AI is just such a powerful
(25:03):
tool that just helps you speedup everything and be able to do
more with your time.
Jackie Pelegrin (25:10):
Right, oh, so true, and I just started a blog
site not too long ago, so I takethat, as I mentioned, the
co-host AI technology andBuzzsprout gives me that blog
post, so I take that as myinspiration.
I thought things like that, soit's really neat how we can take
(25:36):
that and really utilize it aspassive income and still love it
as a passion, because at theend of the day, it's something
that's a passion of mine, andwhat I thought was going to be a
small segment of students endedup growing into more than that.
I have educators, I have peopleI don't even know all around
the world that are listening tothis, and I never would have
(25:57):
imagined that.
I have students in Germany and,you know, in France and all
around Asia, and I'm like, whenI look at the map in my, you
know all the different countriesand cities and I'm like this is
amazing.
Who would have thought you know?
Shane Strand (26:12):
that would have happened.
Jackie Pelegrin (26:13):
Yeah, and I'm like I don't know how they found
it.
Somehow they did, but it'scaught on and so it's really
amazing.
So I'm just thankful for thatand thankful that I've got
individuals like you that I workwith, that can come on here and
give that piece of advice andbe able to give some tips to
those that are in the program,because I think if we come
(26:34):
together as a community and wecan be there for each other and
help each other to be the bestIDs we can be, I think it really
helps, because we want to helpour learners at the end of the
day, so it's great.
Shane Strand (26:46):
Absolutely yeah, and I'm glad you had me on here
yeah definitely it's an honor tobe on here, thank you.
And love talking aboutinstructional design with our
instructional designer.
It's fun.
Jackie Pelegrin (26:58):
Yes, it is, it's such a passion.
Yeah, absolutely.
And when I talked to my momabout it, anybody my family,
friends they just are like, yeah, we can tell that it's your
passion, that you love it.
And I was like, yes, because Iwas actually thinking of doing
other things, like becoming alawyer, wanted to do all kinds
of things.
When I was like, yes, because Iwas actually thinking of doing
other things, like becoming alawyer, I wanted to do all kinds
(27:20):
of things when I was in highschool and it never matriculated
.
I even wanted to go into marketresearch and stuff, so and I
have my MBA in it, so I thoughtit was going to go into business
.
I guess it kind of did in a way, because instructional design
can work that way.
But yeah, it's kind ofinteresting how never would have
thought that all these thingswould have happened, and so it's
interesting how our path canlead us in different directions
that we just don't expect.
(27:40):
So it's amazing, it is Great.
So, before we wrap up, arethere any other ideas or
thoughts you'd like to sharewith my listeners and with
students and all those othersthat are out there?
Shane Strand (27:53):
all those others that are out there.
I mean, I think, just hittinghome on the fact that I think
the I learned a lot in mymaster's program about
instructional design, learningtheories, all of it, but I think
finding these learning from allthese designers in different
(28:14):
industries and when I foundDevlin Pack, I got to say I
probably learned more fromDevlin Pack about on-the-job
skills instructional designersneed and like what that looks
like from him.
So I highly recommend justbranching out and building your
own network, finding thesecommunities and establishing
(28:34):
relationships with people.
And then another thing would beall the new tools.
There's always new toolspopping up, new technologies.
Almost all of them have freetrials, so be brave and test
them out.
They could be intimidating, butthere's free tutorial videos
out there.
You can get a quick free trial,test them out.
(28:57):
And I think it's important todo that as instructional
designers, to just branch andincrease our knowledge and just
keep your skill set building.
Jackie Pelegrin (29:09):
I love that that's great.
Yeah, I love that.
That's great.
Yeah, and, if we can, it'sinteresting too, because I not
only have I shared differenttools like Genially with some of
my students and then they endup using it for some of their
assignments but they also sharedtools with me as well that
they're like oh, I use this formy assignment.
And like 11 labs.
I had never heard of 11 labs.
(29:29):
And then, after a student ofmine used it because she works
for Orbis education as aninstructional designer, which
you know Orbis is part of GrandCanyon education, so it was very
interesting.
I've had like three Orbisemployees that become students
of mine and that are alreadyeither working in instructional
(29:50):
design or they're getting kindof in that field and they're
working like.
Like this particular student,she works in faculty training
and development for Orvis as aninstructional designer.
So she told me she's like yeah,we use 11 labs and then I work
with the faculty to do thesetraining videos and then I use
11.
I record a snippet of her voice, maybe like three or four
minutes, and then I use 11 labsto be able to make the rest of
(30:13):
it, and then I don't need hertalent for the whole time and
I'm like, wow, that's amazing.
And then she showed me some ofthe other stuff she did to make
her content and it just blew meaway and I was like 11 labs.
What was funny is, when she toldme about it, I started seeing
commercials on YouTube for itand other places and I was like,
oh my goodness.
So I thought that was kind offunny, that it's almost like it
(30:36):
knew that for some reason, likeYouTube.
I'm like what is going on here?
Are you YouTube spying on me orsomething?
What is going on?
So I thought that was funny.
But yeah, there's so manydifferent ones out there and I
even discovered there's onecalled designer di design and
then two R's and you canactually create like online
books and stuff like that usingai.
(30:58):
So one of the ways theymentioned you can monetize with
the podcast is to write a book,an ebook, and just take all of
your podcast episodes and thenput it into like a book.
But you can take your contentlike a youtube video or anything
you want and you can upload itto this software and use AI and
then it can create a book foryou and I'm like, oh my goodness
(31:19):
, that's great.
Of course, I wouldn't use it asis and and things like that,
but it's great because it cancreate cover for you and
chapters and all that stuff andjust at least get the get that
flow going.
So I'm like, ooh, maybe, maybeI can actually be an author.
I've always wanted to write,just didn't have the time.
But maybe now I'll have thetime to do it.
So it's amazing.
The technology just keep, likeyou said, just keeps growing and
(31:45):
keeps getting enhanced.
So we just keep discovering newthings that can make our work
easier and help us to get theword out more, and so, yeah,
that's great.
I love it.
Shane Strand (31:54):
Absolutely yeah.
It's just going to keepexpanding.
It's hard to keep up with itall.
Jackie Pelegrin (32:00):
Yeah, that's true, great Well, thank you,
shane, so much for your time.
I appreciate you taking sometime to come on the show and I
look forward to my listenersbeing able to gain so much
knowledge and information,because each interview that I do
is so unique and it's and Ilove it.
So this is one of my favoriteparts of being able to do this
is to to get to speak to othersin the profession as well.
Shane Strand (32:24):
Yeah, Well, thank you for having me on, jackie.
It's a pleasure to be on and Imean I just love, like you.
Jackie Pelegrin (32:32):
Structural design is my passion, I love
talking about it, great yeah,and I'd love to have you
structural design is my passion,I love talking about it, great
yeah, and I'd love to have youback on the show, you know, in a
few months, because we know, aswe said, technology keeps
enhancing and changing.
So, as AI maybe develops moreand things you know get enhanced
in our department and withinthe company we work in, maybe
there's, you know, a certainarea we can focus on too, and
(33:01):
then we can delve into that alittle bit more.
Shane Strand (33:02):
Yeah, I would love that Great, wonderful.
Jackie Pelegrin (33:03):
Thanks again, shane, and I look forward to
having you on again.
Thanks, jackie, appreciate it.
You're welcome.
Thank you for taking some timeto listen to this podcast
episode today.
Your support means the world tome.
If you'd like to help keep thepodcast going, you can share it
with a friend or colleague,leave a heartfelt review or
offer a monetary contribution.
Every act of support, big orsmall, makes a difference and
(33:24):
I'm truly thankful for you.
Hello and welcome to the Designing with
Love podcast.
I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you
information, tips and tricks asan instructional designer.
Hello, GCU students, alumni andfellow educators, welcome to
episode 38 of the Designing withLove podcast.
(00:21):
Today, I have the pleasure ofinterviewing Shane Strand, an
instructional designer who worksin the higher education sector.
Welcome, Shane.
Shane Strand (00:29):
Jackie, thanks for having me.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:30):
You're welcome.
Thank you for taking the timetoday to come on my podcast and
talk to some of my studentstoday and also others around the
world.
This has become a worldwidepodcast.
It's great.
Shane Strand (00:58):
Wonderful.
So can you tell us a little bitabout yourself?
I began before even finding outwhat instructional design was.
I was a high school teacher forsix years and then I later
transitioned into an assistantprincipal role.
I did that for three years andthen I eventually merged into a
curriculum coordinator role.
(01:19):
After that third position insecondary education, I was ready
to find something else.
That third position insecondary education, I was ready
to find something else, and I'djust been learning about what
instructional design is and whata career in that could be.
So I would say I found out moreabout it as I was taking some
(01:40):
graduate coursework at NorthernArizona University.
I was majoring in educationalleadership.
I'd taken a couple courses ineducational technology and then
that's where I was really opento that whole other field called
instructional design.
Yeah, like I think a lot ofpeople just still don't know
(02:02):
what instructional design isunless they're in it.
It's one of those things whereif someone asks you, oh, what do
you do?
And you say you're a structuraldesigner, they are a little bit
perplexed by it and they don'tknow what that is.
So you have to explain it alittle bit.
But it took a while to find it.
And well, now I'm here.
(02:23):
That's great, yes.
Jackie Pelegrin (02:23):
I noticed great .
Yes, I noticed that too.
When people ask me what kind ofwork do you do?
And I say instructional design.
If you're in person with themor over the phone or something
on video, and you say that, andthey have this perplexed look
and they're like what does thatmean?
Yeah, I even had someone that Iinterviewed a couple weeks ago
(02:46):
and he is a math educator, he'staught K through 12 in higher
education, and he asked me whatI do and I said instructional
design and he said, oh, what isthat?
And when I explained it to himand they tend to pick up on it
and they're like that's whatthat is.
So, yeah, that's kind ofinteresting how you you are.
You were already doing it, youjust didn't know it.
And that's pretty amazing whenyou kind of stumbled upon it,
(03:07):
right, and didn't expect it.
Shane Strand (03:09):
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
And, like you said, you'redoing it already as a teacher,
as an educator.
You don't even realize it, andthen it's also really exciting
when you realize, oh my gosh,like I have a lot of skills
already that are transferable.
This is great.
It's like you're already have afoot in the field, without even
knowing it.
Jackie Pelegrin (03:28):
Right, that's amazing, yeah, and a lot of the
students that we teach in thisprogram I don't know if your
students mentioned it, but a lotof my students do too in K
through 12 or higher education,if they're already in the fields
that, they became kind of anaccidental instructional
designer and didn't know it.
So it's pretty, pretty cool.
Yeah, that's neat, great.
(03:50):
So you kind of mentioned this alittle bit, but what kind of
made you become interested inthe position that you're in now
in higher education and evenjust the industry as a whole?
Was there something inparticular that really sparked
your, your interest in it?
Shane Strand (04:06):
I mean, yeah.
So I would say, while I was insecondary education, I'd say my,
like my second year of teaching, I I started to realize this
was not entirely what I wantedto do.
You know, long-term same withthat educational leadership, I
just always thought there's justsomething more interesting out
(04:26):
there.
Like that fit me better.
And as I started discovering,like, what instructional design
was, I mean like I had I starteddoing my own research, you know
, reading articles about it,taking those ed tech classes
that I mentioned.
But what really drew me was justthe technology aspect, like all
this e-learning technology,seeing these online courses that
(04:49):
are out there.
When I was in secondaryeducation, half the years I
spent as a teacher was in analternative school setting where
we actually it was a hybridsetting where students came in
person but they worked oncomputers.
We had a learning managementsystem.
They worked online on theircourses, and I've just always
been intrigued by just onlinelearning.
(05:12):
And then it's booming so fastthe different, the LMSs,
learning management systems,what they can do nowadays, how
sophisticated they become, andthen all these different
technologies like courseauthoring tools, multimedia that
you can use to enhance themeven further.
So that just really piqued myinterest and it's just like a
(05:33):
whole new frontier that's beingexplored and it's rapidly
expanding too.
So that's what really drew meExciting things you can do with
these new tech tools coming out.
Jackie Pelegrin (05:44):
And then, of course, there's AI.
Shane Strand (05:46):
And then that's revolutionary itself, right.
Yeah, that's what really drewme to it, and it's just there's
different industries.
There's the corporate world,where it's more focused on
training and skill development,and then there's higher ed,
where we're building degreeprograms.
(06:06):
It's just a very excitingindustry and that's what really
drew me to it.
Jackie Pelegrin (06:12):
Right.
Yeah, it's amazing because it'sa field that doesn't seem to
grow old, right, it's evergreenbecause as you mentioned.
There's corporate, there'shigher education, military,
nonprofit.
There's so many industries thatwe can go into and sectors that
we can branch out into.
So it's amazing because Istarted in higher education and
(06:34):
then I went to corporate for awhile and then I came back to
higher education so I bouncedback.
So I think education is where Ilike to be, but I also like
corporate too, because it givesyou those opportunities
sometimes to learn somedifferent skills that you may
not get in the higher educationsector.
So it's kind of interestingbecause when I worked at
PetSmart and I did my contractorposition there, they had me
(06:57):
learning InDesign and all theAdobe tools that I didn't learn
at my other position, my firstposition as instructional
designer.
I was like, oh, we didn't haveInDesign because the Adobe
package we had didn't includeInDesign, but it included
Captivate.
And then it was, yeah, so it'svery interesting, and they were
moving away from Captivate toStoryline.
So I was like, oh, that'sinteresting, so it's kind of
(07:19):
neat.
And then you get to learndifferent facets of corporate
and how the inner workings areof it and how it differs from
education, but there's alsosimilar things too.
So it's very interesting thatwe can branch into different
areas and learn the differentelements of it, and I think it
makes us more well-rounded asinstructional designers because,
even like where you and I workat GCE, we can get involved in
(07:42):
professional development andtraining and be able to help
adult learners still right andhelp with that aspect of it.
So it's really neat to be ableto still branch out because I
feel like we have to keepourselves abreast of all the
different skills, especially thetechnology right.
It's always changing yeah.
Shane Strand (08:01):
And that's a great point.
Just, it is a lot there's.
It's growing and changing soquickly.
At the same time, thetechnology AI just popping up
has changed everything and then,yeah, it's hard to keep up with
all the new technologies cominginto play and then choosing
which one might be better fordifferent things.
Like I can start some of thosethings that are prototyping
coming into play and thenchoosing which one might be
(08:23):
better for different things,like um right instructional
designers are prototyping.
It's like there's so manydifferent tech tools for
prototyping and it's like, well,which one do you go with?
And so, yeah, it's it's veryinteresting and a little
overwhelming at the same timeyeah, that's true.
Jackie Pelegrin (08:39):
It's yeah, knowing which ones are good and
kind of, in a way, limitingyourself.
That's in some ways because youdon't want to go into learn
everything.
And then you're like, oh well,I don't think I'm going to be
able to use all that.
Shane Strand (08:51):
So yeah, right.
Jackie Pelegrin (08:52):
Yeah, choosing that, yeah.
So you mentioned a little bitabout AI Are there and we can
expand upon that too.
Shane Strand (09:11):
Are there any other specific areas in which
you're expanding your knowledgeand skills in the field right
now?
Besides, you know and we caninclude ai as well if you want
yeah, um, well, I mean, likewhat we're doing here with um
using ai when developing ourcourses or in and even at the
program level.
I saw what you were doing withcompetencies, with um coming up
descriptions, flushing outassignments in course
development.
It's amazing what it can do andjust you know, just expanding
on those possibilities.
(09:31):
But in addition to AI I'mlooking at, I'm also looking at
other skill sets out there.
What's interesting is lookingat different instructional
design opportunities that pop upand then what other
instructional designers aretalking about instructional
design opportunities that pop up, and then what other
instructional designers aretalking about, like I know, um
getting to know a bit of uh code, how to code html css I know
(09:52):
some instructional designers dothat that's awesome
yeah, and not something, um, Ido in my current position, but I
know that a lot ofinstructional designers that
work with those trulysophisticated course authoring
tools like Articulate Storyline,I know there's a way to use
coding to enhance that further,to just go the extra mile with
(10:14):
those course creations.
So there are so many littleniches out there to explore and
I think it's more like, based oneverything I've read and seen,
more corporate that kind of hasthose tools and wants those
skills.
But also LMS is that coding andprogramming skill set would
factor into there as well.
(10:34):
So I have no skill in that areawhatsoever.
So that's why it's interestingto me.
There's other parts like visualdesign, how to really make
courses look visually appealingand then also follow those
principles of multimedia toreally just make the experience
the best it could possibly be.
There's just so many differentthings to look into.
(10:56):
But I would say, yeah, in termsof what, how I'm looking to
expand my own skill set would bejust kind of looking to see
what all is out there, whateverybody's talking about, and
just kind of like narrowing downdifferent things to explore
more.
Jackie Pelegrin (11:11):
That's great, yeah, because, as they say, even
when you land your dream joband you become an instructional
designer, it doesn't stop there,right?
You have to continue to evolveand learn those things, and so
it's a constant thing, and Ieven read last year and I
watched a video too from DelvinPeck's website, because he has,
(11:32):
if you're probably familiar withDelvin Peck, I share a lot of
his videos in my classes and hehas that boot camp for the
instructional designers that areup and coming instructional
designers that are up and coming.
And he had a gentleman that wentthrough that and he talked
about his portfolio and how it'simportant to keep that going.
That was one thing I didn't doin my master's degree.
(11:52):
Once I was done with theprogram, I didn't touch my
portfolio and so I was.
I thought to myself, oh my gosh, that's he's right, because it
does become a marketing tool andwe can't just abandon it.
We have to continually work onit, because you just never know
what could happen and whereyou're where you're at, because
when I was at PetSmart and I wasdoing the contracting, I had
(12:14):
tried twice to get hired atPetSmart and I got turned down.
And so then I found an agencythat does creative hiring.
It's through Robert Half, it'scalled the Creative Group.
I'm pretty sure they're stillaround and they said, oh, we
work with PetSmart and we canhelp you.
And I thought, oh great, youguys can get.
At least that way I can getmyself in the door.
And they said, exactly, if youcan do it for six months and
(12:37):
show that you can do the workand you can have that expertise,
then, yeah, you increase yourchances of getting hired.
So I was like, oh well, this isgreat, I'll get my foot in the
door.
But then, at that six monthmark, the owners had decided to
sell PetSmart and they got ridof all the contractors.
And then in the learning anddevelopment department, where I
(12:58):
worked as a contractor, they gotrid of 95% of the individuals
in that department.
There was a lady that was there17 years as an instructional
designer and they they fired her, let her go, and I thought, oh
my goodness, all they kept wasone instructional designer, one
learning developer and the and amanager, and that was it.
They had like 20 people indepartment and they got rid of
(13:20):
everybody but three people andthey just reorganized the whole
entire, not just that departmentbut a lot of other areas too at
the corporate.
And I was like wow.
So it was disappointing BecauseI thought that's what I wanted
to do.
I wanted to work for PetSmart.
That was something I justcraved to do, that because I
love the pet industry and it wascombining both loves.
(13:43):
That I really had a passion for.
Yeah, and so when that happened,I felt like it was just a just
like a stab in the back for me,in a sense, and it just just
almost like tearing out a pieceof my heart and I'm like, no,
but then I found that.
But then that recruiter said tome well, go go over to GCU.
I used to work at GCU.
So I was like, okay, I'll giveit a try.
(14:05):
But she's like curriculumdevelopment is different from
employee training development,so just be aware of that.
And so, yeah, it's interestinghow your career can shift and
change, and so it's always goodto be ready for that.
You just never know.
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
So what are some tips andadvice you can share with those
(14:26):
who are currently in themaster's program in
instructional design at GrandCanyon University?
Shane Strand (14:48):
design and really I really knew for sure that was
gonna be my my calling by justwhat I learned in online
communities and networking.
Um, devlin peck I have watchedso many of his videos.
He's got a lot of that freeyoutube content and, like you
said, he's got that right now.
Um, I I think I highlyrecommend anybody who's
interested in becoming aninstructional designer or who
currently is, who wants toupscale, watch Devin Beck videos
(15:11):
.
I mean, he's very thorough onhow he covers different pieces
of it.
He's got all kinds of contentfree and then content you can
pay for, and I have purchasedsome of his courses as well.
He's got courses on how to useArticulate Storyline, how to
build an e-learning portfolio,as you mentioned and just how to
make yourself more marketableAll kinds of different things
(15:35):
and, as I was talking about,even coding HTML and CSS.
He's even got content on thatas well.
But I found just what you canfind out there in the World Wide
Web with these onlinecommunities.
Those are huge.
And then there's alsocommunities.
Well, there's LinkedIn groups.
Devlin's got his own community.
There's tons of others outthere too, and you see what
(15:55):
other instructional designersare doing in different
industries, and that just reallyexpands your knowledge, and
then you can even network withthese people and then you can
even share some stuff andcontent.
You're working on ideas youhave and get their feedback, and
that's huge.
I think you can never go wrongwith that.
And then the other thing Iwould add would be there's a lot
(16:22):
of great books out there.
One of the first books I readfor to become an instructional
designer was called thee-learning designers handbook by
Tim Slade.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:35):
Yes, I have that book.
Shane Strand (16:36):
You do yeah.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:37):
Yeah, that was one of the first books I read
too.
Yeah, I love that.
Shane Strand (16:40):
That was just an easy read it's completely.
It's like the perfect introbook.
And then another one I'dstarted and hadn't have not gone
around to finishing would beMap it by Kathy Moore.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:53):
Oh, I've heard of that book.
Shane Strand (16:55):
Yeah, I'd like to read that one too tailored
towards the corporate world andjust but just how to map and
identify.
You know what the problem isand what the training need is.
There's just so manyinteresting resources out there,
so my recommendation is to belook at all the literature out
(17:16):
there, see, find onlinecommunities with other designers
, see what they're doing andthey're all sharing something.
Right, yeah, that all sharingsomething, right?
Jackie Pelegrin (17:24):
Yeah, that's so true.
Yeah, and it's interesting too.
When you mentioned Tim Slade, Ithought of I share some of his
videos to my classes because hehas the eLearner Designers
Academy and all these differentvideos.
So whenever I'm looking forsomething for my, I have the
classroom assessment technique.
Of course we're we have to dothose every week.
I have the classroom assessmenttechnique.
Of course, we have to do thoseevery week, but I also have a
(17:45):
Media Monday post that I do andit's based upon media, whether
it's a video or an infographicor something like that, and it
really gets my studentsinterested in all of that and
they get to learn a little bitmore than maybe they would have
with the content that's alreadyin the course, already built.
So it's really fun.
And so most of the time, that'swhat I'm sharing is Dalvin's
(18:05):
videos and Tim's videos for themost part, because they, like
you said, they have such a richlibrary of things on their
YouTube channel and differentelements that you can grab from
that just make it such a easygo-to.
And why have us reinvent theinformation, right, if it's
already out there?
Just be able to utilize what'salready there, exactly.
Shane Strand (18:27):
And I think that's great that you share those
videos with your class.
I should do that more with mineas well, because then that gets
our students more, makes themmore aware that's YouTube.
Oh wow, who's this person?
And all they got to do is startlooking more into it and
they'll find a vast amount ofresources for further
exploration.
It's amazing.
I'm sure at this point, devlinmust have like 100 different
(18:50):
videos by now.
Jackie Pelegrin (18:51):
Probably.
Yeah, it's amazing, yeah, andI've also noticed there's a few
other different podcasts likethis that are instructional
design type of podcasts whereit's a mixture of topical based,
like what I do, and theninterviews like this, and it's
very interesting to see whatelse is out there.
And the main reason I startedthis podcast not a lot of people
(19:12):
know is because with onlinelearning you don't get that
opportunity to have experts comeinto the classroom like you do
on a ground campus, right in aphysical classroom.
And so when I I actually when Iwent to Walden university
that's a hundred percent onlineand I wrote on a note in a
notebook I actually in a onenote notebook I wrote down some
(19:33):
of the things that I wanted tosee as a student in that program
and I said to myself and Iwrote this down, I still have it
If I ever become a teacher, ifI ever teach higher education at
any point in time.
I never thought I would, but ifI ever do, these are the things
that I would want to do as aninstructor, and that was one of
the things was to have a onlinecommunity or something where I
(19:55):
could mimic in some way thatopportunity of having guests
come in, and so that's, and so Ithought, why don't I do a
podcast?
Ooh, that would be great, andyeah.
So lo and behold, I didn'texpect two years later to still
be going.
But it's amazing because theowner of Podmatch which I will
tag Podmatch on he said that 95%of podcasts fail within the
(20:18):
first year because it's hard tomaintain, it's hard to get the
guests, and so.
But with Podmatch I've beenable to, you know, get more of
those interviews and it's beenamazing, and then experts like
yourself that I work with to beable to do that.
So I think that's been able tojust be a game changer all
(20:41):
around.
Shane Strand (20:42):
So I didn't even realize that 95% mile.
Jackie Pelegrin (20:47):
That's, yeah, it's crazy, isn't it, that many
fail.
You know, they start and thenthey just can't maintain it or
they just don't get enoughaudience and they say even it's
not just about the download,that's about who you're, who
you're connecting with and whoyour listeners are.
So building that community it'sanother way to build a
community too.
So it's it's pretty neat tohave those different ways right
(21:09):
that we can.
We can build that community ofindividuals.
Shane Strand (21:12):
so you never know, maybe someday I'll be able to
interview devlin pack ortemplate maybe yeah and you know
that when you, when you do lookat how many big, influential
instructional designers can youcount on one hand?
I know devlin, tim slade, kathymoore is another one, connie
malamed would be one yes, oh mygoodness.
(21:35):
Yeah, like we were talking aboutearlier, it's just it still
almost feels like it's stilllike a new field.
So I think, when you like, Ihave tried looking for podcasts
to listen to just to you know,when I got to have to go do a
long drive, I want to have apodcast playing so I can like at
least just continue enrichingmyself with knowledge.
And there there isn't, therearen't that many options out
(21:57):
there for instructionaldesigners, and I mean it's still
like it's almost like that kindof like a hidden field still.
Jackie Pelegrin (22:03):
So yeah, it's very interesting because it
started off in the middle, withthe military right During World
War II.
That's where the historystarted, with the army, and it's
hard to believe that it startedthat long ago.
And there's so many prominentpeople that develop these models
and theories and when you lookback on that you're like, oh, my
(22:23):
goodness, yes, like Bloom'staxonomy started in the 1960s by
Benjamin Bloom.
And when some of my studentslearn that, they're like, really
it's been around that long, andI'm like, yes, it has.
It's amazing and Addy's beenaround since the 60s.
And we're still using it todayyeah, it's a tried and true
(22:44):
method, although some people youknow attribute it to taking too
long when you have rapiddevelopment.
So of course, sam came along tohelp with more of that
collaboration and things likethat.
I it's interesting because Ithink you and I um in our
position and with the otherinstructional designers that we
work.
I think we do like a hybrid ofAddy and Sam, because we're
(23:06):
doing constant iteration.
Right, we're working withsubject matter experts, we're
collaborating with them.
So I don't feel like we'redoing a full Addy or a full Sam.
I feel like we're doing alittle bit of both.
What do you think?
Kind of a hybrid?
Shane Strand (23:18):
Yeah, I'd say so, yeah, yeah, definitely.
And I mean there's, and there'ssome, there's others out there
too, there's Agile.
Jackie Pelegrin (23:26):
Oh yeah, exactly 4CID is out there, which
is good for higher ed.
So, yeah, cause it's, it'sinteresting.
And what's cool is episode 26is where I talk about the top 10
instructional design models andtheories and that's actually
bumped up to the most popularone right now.
It's in like the 60s orsomething like that, and I
released that about a month agoand it's and what I did was I
(23:50):
actually went to chat GPT and Iasked chat GPT, what are the top
10 instructional design modelsand tools right now?
And that's when it gave me thelist.
And then I asked chat GPT I waslike, okay, great, can you give
me like a little outline to helpget me started?
Chat GPT I was like, okay,great, can you give me like a
little outline to help get mestarted?
So it's funny because I use AInow for the podcast, so I use it
(24:11):
to generate topic ideas, I useit to help me with my outline
and things like that, and then,of course, as we mentioned
before we started this, Iutilize it for being able to
edit these episodes and thenalso with the creation of it
with my hosting platform.
So it's amazing how AI justtouches everything and it helps
make our work easier.
But I love how we can still goto those tried and true methods
(24:34):
right and those models and toolsthat we know work are evidence
based, and be able to infusethat technology in it in the
same light.
Shane Strand (24:43):
Yeah, and AI, I mean it helps us in our current
roles as instructional designersand then with our courses and
then with your podcast.
It just helps speed things up.
So I mean that probably helps.
I know you do teach a lot ofcourses in addition to doing
instructional design, so havingthe AI is just such a powerful
(25:03):
tool that just helps you speedup everything and be able to do
more with your time.
Jackie Pelegrin (25:10):
Right, oh, so true, and I just started a blog
site not too long ago, so I takethat, as I mentioned, the
co-host AI technology andBuzzsprout gives me that blog
post, so I take that as myinspiration.
I thought things like that, soit's really neat how we can take
(25:36):
that and really utilize it aspassive income and still love it
as a passion, because at theend of the day, it's something
that's a passion of mine, andwhat I thought was going to be a
small segment of students endedup growing into more than that.
I have educators, I have peopleI don't even know all around
the world that are listening tothis, and I never would have
(25:57):
imagined that.
I have students in Germany and,you know, in France and all
around Asia, and I'm like, whenI look at the map in my, you
know all the different countriesand cities and I'm like this is
amazing.
Who would have thought you know?
Shane Strand (26:12):
that would have happened.
Jackie Pelegrin (26:13):
Yeah, and I'm like I don't know how they found
it.
Somehow they did, but it'scaught on and so it's really
amazing.
So I'm just thankful for thatand thankful that I've got
individuals like you that I workwith, that can come on here and
give that piece of advice andbe able to give some tips to
those that are in the program,because I think if we come
(26:34):
together as a community and wecan be there for each other and
help each other to be the bestIDs we can be, I think it really
helps, because we want to helpour learners at the end of the
day, so it's great.
Shane Strand (26:46):
Absolutely yeah, and I'm glad you had me on here
yeah definitely it's an honor tobe on here, thank you.
And love talking aboutinstructional design with our
instructional designer.
It's fun.
Jackie Pelegrin (26:58):
Yes, it is, it's such a passion.
Yeah, absolutely.
And when I talked to my momabout it, anybody my family,
friends they just are like, yeah, we can tell that it's your
passion, that you love it.
And I was like, yes, because Iwas actually thinking of doing
other things, like becoming alawyer, wanted to do all kinds
of things.
When I was like, yes, because Iwas actually thinking of doing
other things, like becoming alawyer, I wanted to do all kinds
(27:20):
of things when I was in highschool and it never matriculated
.
I even wanted to go into marketresearch and stuff, so and I
have my MBA in it, so I thoughtit was going to go into business
.
I guess it kind of did in a way, because instructional design
can work that way.
But yeah, it's kind ofinteresting how never would have
thought that all these thingswould have happened, and so it's
interesting how our path canlead us in different directions
that we just don't expect.
(27:40):
So it's amazing, it is Great.
So, before we wrap up, arethere any other ideas or
thoughts you'd like to sharewith my listeners and with
students and all those othersthat are out there?
Shane Strand (27:53):
all those others that are out there.
I mean, I think, just hittinghome on the fact that I think
the I learned a lot in mymaster's program about
instructional design, learningtheories, all of it, but I think
finding these learning from allthese designers in different
(28:14):
industries and when I foundDevlin Pack, I got to say I
probably learned more fromDevlin Pack about on-the-job
skills instructional designersneed and like what that looks
like from him.
So I highly recommend justbranching out and building your
own network, finding thesecommunities and establishing
(28:34):
relationships with people.
And then another thing would beall the new tools.
There's always new toolspopping up, new technologies.
Almost all of them have freetrials, so be brave and test
them out.
They could be intimidating, butthere's free tutorial videos
out there.
You can get a quick free trial,test them out.
(28:57):
And I think it's important todo that as instructional
designers, to just branch andincrease our knowledge and just
keep your skill set building.
Jackie Pelegrin (29:09):
I love that that's great.
Yeah, I love that.
That's great.
Yeah, and, if we can, it'sinteresting too, because I not
only have I shared differenttools like Genially with some of
my students and then they endup using it for some of their
assignments but they also sharedtools with me as well that
they're like oh, I use this formy assignment.
And like 11 labs.
I had never heard of 11 labs.
(29:29):
And then, after a student ofmine used it because she works
for Orbis education as aninstructional designer, which
you know Orbis is part of GrandCanyon education, so it was very
interesting.
I've had like three Orbisemployees that become students
of mine and that are alreadyeither working in instructional
(29:50):
design or they're getting kindof in that field and they're
working like.
Like this particular student,she works in faculty training
and development for Orvis as aninstructional designer.
So she told me she's like yeah,we use 11 labs and then I work
with the faculty to do thesetraining videos and then I use
11.
I record a snippet of her voice, maybe like three or four
minutes, and then I use 11 labsto be able to make the rest of
(30:13):
it, and then I don't need hertalent for the whole time and
I'm like, wow, that's amazing.
And then she showed me some ofthe other stuff she did to make
her content and it just blew meaway and I was like 11 labs.
What was funny is, when she toldme about it, I started seeing
commercials on YouTube for itand other places and I was like,
oh my goodness.
So I thought that was kind offunny, that it's almost like it
(30:36):
knew that for some reason, likeYouTube.
I'm like what is going on here?
Are you YouTube spying on me orsomething?
What is going on?
So I thought that was funny.
But yeah, there's so manydifferent ones out there and I
even discovered there's onecalled designer di design and
then two R's and you canactually create like online
books and stuff like that usingai.
(30:58):
So one of the ways theymentioned you can monetize with
the podcast is to write a book,an ebook, and just take all of
your podcast episodes and thenput it into like a book.
But you can take your contentlike a youtube video or anything
you want and you can upload itto this software and use AI and
then it can create a book foryou and I'm like, oh my goodness
(31:19):
, that's great.
Of course, I wouldn't use it asis and and things like that,
but it's great because it cancreate cover for you and
chapters and all that stuff andjust at least get the get that
flow going.
So I'm like, ooh, maybe, maybeI can actually be an author.
I've always wanted to write,just didn't have the time.
But maybe now I'll have thetime to do it.
So it's amazing.
The technology just keep, likeyou said, just keeps growing and
(31:45):
keeps getting enhanced.
So we just keep discovering newthings that can make our work
easier and help us to get theword out more, and so, yeah,
that's great.
I love it.
Shane Strand (31:54):
Absolutely yeah.
It's just going to keepexpanding.
It's hard to keep up with itall.
Jackie Pelegrin (32:00):
Yeah, that's true, great Well, thank you,
shane, so much for your time.
I appreciate you taking sometime to come on the show and I
look forward to my listenersbeing able to gain so much
knowledge and information,because each interview that I do
is so unique and it's and Ilove it.
So this is one of my favoriteparts of being able to do this
is to to get to speak to othersin the profession as well.
Shane Strand (32:24):
Yeah, Well, thank you for having me on, jackie.
It's a pleasure to be on and Imean I just love, like you.
Jackie Pelegrin (32:32):
Structural design is my passion, I love
talking about it, great yeah,and I'd love to have you
structural design is my passion,I love talking about it, great
yeah, and I'd love to have youback on the show, you know, in a
few months, because we know, aswe said, technology keeps
enhancing and changing.
So, as AI maybe develops moreand things you know get enhanced
in our department and withinthe company we work in, maybe
there's, you know, a certainarea we can focus on too, and
(33:01):
then we can delve into that alittle bit more.
Shane Strand (33:02):
Yeah, I would love that Great, wonderful.
Jackie Pelegrin (33:03):
Thanks again, shane, and I look forward to
having you on again.
Thanks, jackie, appreciate it.
You're welcome.
Thank you for taking some timeto listen to this podcast
episode today.
Your support means the world tome.
If you'd like to help keep thepodcast going, you can share it
with a friend or colleague,leave a heartfelt review or
offer a monetary contribution.
Every act of support, big orsmall, makes a difference and
(33:24):
I'm truly thankful for you.
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