October 8, 2025 • 45 mins
When Jim Edwards graduated with a history degree in the 1980s, he never imagined he'd become a pioneer in AI-powered copywriting. After bouncing between seven sales jobs in 18 months, he discovered his talent for persuasion, eventually building a six-figure career in mortgage sales before turning to entrepreneurship. What followed was a fascinating evolution from rejected author to software developer to AI innovator.
During our conversation, Jim delivered a powerful message about AI that challenges the prevailing narrative. "Most people are trying to figure out how to use AI to replace themselves," he warns, "and that is a really stupid thing to do." Instead, he advocates using AI as an accelerant that amplifies your voice and eliminates "mundane intellectual labor" while preserving the uniquely human elements that create genuine connection.
The most valuable insight from our conversation is Jim's distinction between DATA (Default Answers To Anything) and SOUL content (Stories, Observations, Unique perspective, Lessons learned). While anyone can get generic information from AI, what truly engages audiences is the human experience behind the information—the stories that contextualize knowledge and make it meaningful. For educators, content creators, and professionals navigating the AI revolution, this framework offers a clear path forward: leverage AI to handle routine tasks while doubling down on the human elements that technology cannot replicate.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Designing with
Love podcast.
I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you
information, tips, and tricks asan instructional designer.
Hello, GCU students, alumni,and fellow educators, welcome to
episode 53 of the Designingwith Love podcast.
(00:22):
Today, I have the pleasure ofinterviewing Jim Edwards, a
bestselling author and founderof Guaranteed Response Marketing
LLC.
Welcome, Jim.
Jim Edwards (00:31):
Hey, I'm excited to be here.
Jackie, Thanks for having me.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:34):
Yes, thank you too.
I'm glad we got connected onPodmatch.
It's wonderful.
Can you tell us a little bitabout yourself?
Jim Edwards (00:41):
I am.
It's funny when people ask youwhat do you do and you're like
you get.
That whole big resume thinggoes through you.
But if I had to summarize it ina single sentence, I am a
software developer and an authorwho helps people figure out how
to put words on a page or in anemail or out of their mouth
(01:03):
that persuade other people togive them money.
Jackie Pelegrin (01:06):
I like that.
That's great.
Jim Edwards (01:09):
That's what I do in one sentence.
Jackie Pelegrin (01:12):
In a nutshell Great, that's great.
Can you share what inspired youto dive into the world of AI
and sales copywriting,especially since AI is
everywhere right today?
Jim Edwards (01:23):
Yeah, now that is going to be a much longer answer
, so that will be a pomegranate.
The other thing was a nutshell.
This is a pomegranate, so youknow it's funny.
I actually graduated fromWilliam Mary back in the 80s
with a degree in history and Icould have had a minor in
Chinese comparative literatureif I had not been drunk the
(01:44):
whole month of March, my senioryear, and had gone and filled
out the paperwork.
We're just getting real, jackie.
Okay, I mean, the time limit onthe penalties for that has
expired.
So, interestingly enough, whenyou graduate with a degree in
history and you aren't going toget a master's in teaching, you
(02:06):
are eminently qualified to goget a job in 100% commission
sales.
So I went and got a job insales and I quit or got fired
from seven different jobs myfirst 18 months out of school
and the best job I could findwas working at Domino's.
But then every time I had oneof those jobs I learned
something else about sales.
(02:27):
I learned about how to talk topeople.
I learned about how to prospect, how to follow up, how to not
see no as no forever, but justno for today.
And then I was actually workingat a place called Nutrisystem,
when they had physical locations.
I sold the lady and she said,wow, you'd be really good in my
(02:52):
business.
I remember thinking, well, I'vebeen in almost every other
business, what do you do?
I said, oh, really, tell meabout it.
She told me about the mortgagebusiness.
Long story short, I went in themortgage business and I was 23
years old and I started makingabout $100,000 a year, which
back in 1991, $100,000 a year isa lot of money.
(03:14):
Yes absolutely, and so I wasdoing really well.
I met a girl.
She told me, hey, you're prettysmart, you should write a book.
And I'm like, hey, yeah, I'msmart, I'll write a book.
So I took four years to write abook and I had since married
that lady, been married to herfor 31 years now, and I tried to
(03:36):
get a publisher.
Nobody would publish my book.
I got turned down by 40different publishers.
It was more than that.
I just stopped counting at 40.
Book I got turned down by 40different publishers.
It was more than that.
I just stopped counting at 40.
So in 1997, I ran into afraternity brother at William
and Mary at Homecoming and hementioned that he and his dad
had bought a web server.
Well, this is when the web wasfirst firing up, really the
(03:57):
worldwide web and stuff.
And I asked him a question thathe was totally unqualified to
answer and I said, hey, do youthink I could sell my book on
the internet?
And he's like, sure, and youcan buy web hosting services
from us.
This is he was.
I was paying in 1997.
I started paying 125 bucks amonth for 10 megabytes of web
(04:20):
space.
Jackie Pelegrin (04:20):
Oh my gosh.
Jim Edwards (04:21):
Yeah, it was, yeah, Expensive, yeah, very so.
Then I had to figure out how tosell.
So everybody was talking aboutyou got to have this big sticky
website.
So I, you know, after I've Ilearned how to do HTML, I
learned how to do all this stuffand I had this 40 page website.
And for four years I wasstruggling along.
(04:42):
It was just this basic littlehobby.
And for four years I wasstruggling along.
It was just this basic littlehobby.
And then, in 2001, I gotexposed to the idea of a
one-page sales letter, which isthose big, long sales letters
that everybody hates but yeteverybody buys from them if
they're interested in the thing.
So somebody reads your salesletter and says, well, it's too
(05:04):
long and they're just not inyour target audience.
So it was funny because I wasactually even speaking at that
event.
I taught a 12 point salesletter and I said, hey, I can do
that, Cause it was always kindof.
Even back in school, I wasalways looking for the
underlying formula.
I was always looking for theunderlying formula.
(05:25):
I was always looking for theunderlying pattern, Like in 11th
, I mean, I did really well inEnglish.
You know, I got the highestgrade on my paper in my AP
English class.
I you know my still still holdthat little star, but I was
always fascinated with thepatterns that created the
pleasing result.
(05:45):
You know, I still remember thatthe best way to do a summary
sentence for a paper is to gotherefore.
I mean, your best concludingsentence always starts with
therefore.
So I just took to it like aduck to water and that night I
was staying in a hotel at theconference and I took his
(06:08):
formula and I applied it to my40 page website, got rid of a
bunch of stuff, took some thingsthat I was giving away for free
, turned them into bonuses thatyou only got when you bought,
and my sales literally went up250% overnight, literally, Wow,
literally went up 250% overnight, literally.
Jackie Pelegrin (06:26):
Wow, that's amazing.
Jim Edwards (06:26):
I two and a half times my sales by going from a
40 page website to a one pagelong form sales letter.
And I was hooked and I startedreading every book I could read.
I started learning and I wasjust like, if I can do this with
one, let me do another, andanother, and another.
And I think in that first yearI wrote 10 sales letters to sell
stuff.
(06:46):
Some of them hit, some of themdidn't, a couple of them hit
huge, and so I ended up justbeing fascinated with not just
making stuff and figuring stuffout, but then I had to figure
out how to sell it stuff out.
But then I had to figure outhow to sell it.
And then you know this is backeven before the turn of the
(07:08):
century and stuff, but figuringout how to do this stuff on
dial-up.
Then you know how to do audiofiles and how to do screen
capture video, then how to dofull motion video, then how to
do membership sites, then howand all these things.
And so what I would do is I'dlearn how to do something and
sooner or later customers wouldstart asking me how to do
something and sooner or latercustomers would start asking me
hey, how are you doing that?
(07:28):
And so I'd turn around andteach a class based on what I
had done.
But then what I did was Itaught them how to sell what I
had taught them how to make soif they had written a book you
know, I've been teaching peoplehow to write books since 2001.
Tens of thousands of peopleI've helped to write and publish
their books fast.
(07:48):
And so I became kind of theaccidental copywriting coach.
Then, in 2006, I actuallylicensed my first piece of
software from somebody who had alittle fill in the blank thing
called.
Well, I don't remember what histhing was called, but I private
(08:12):
labeled it as quick sales copy.
You can't I mean the user can'tsee that, but I'm showing you
the thing.
That's what I look like like 35years ago, 35 years ago.
And so that's when I got hookedon.
(08:33):
How can?
Because copywriting is such arepeatable formula, it has very
specific formulas.
I said there's got to be a waywe can use software to help
create the first draft.
And so I became fascinated withframeworks and with patterns
and blueprints and templates andall these different things.
And so I, in 2006, I started.
(08:55):
I hired a developer who's beenwith me ever since.
Side note when I hired this kidhe's not a kid anymore.
I hired this kid he's not a kidanymore but when I hired him he
was 18 years old and living inSiberia.
I found him through a sitecalled Elance.
Oh yeah, and so he.
You remember Elance from?
(09:15):
way back in the day Yep, I do.
Then they became Rent-A-Coderand then I don't know what up or
anyway, I digress we juststarted developing this platform
.
And so in 2016, we haddeveloped this platform really
far, we morphed it into anotherplatform called Funnel Scripts.
(09:39):
That had over 100,000 users andit was all about sales copy,
and so we sold that for a while,and about three and a half four
years ago, gpt-2 came out.
It gets a little muddy, butGPT-2 came out.
I was like, hey, that's kind ofcute, maybe there's some future
(10:00):
there.
And I started developing my ownlarge language model future
there.
And I started developing my ownlarge language model because
when GPT-3 came out, microsoftgrabbed it and put it under
wraps, like they were the onlyperson to license it.
You couldn't use GPT-3.
And then they came out withsome stuff with open AI, right,
but long story short, I spent aton of money and practically lit
(10:21):
up the entire eastern half ofthe United States with all these
servers that we were burning onto train this language model,
and I spent a lot of money, alot of money my wife still
reminds me of the money that wespent on that and so I got this
thing all trained up and a weeklater they came out with OpenAI
(10:43):
having an API into GPT-3.
And then right after that 3.5.
And so it was what it was.
So we took my existing softwarethat I'd been developing then
for 15 years 15, 16 years and wejust plugged it into OpenAI and
we just plugged it into OpenAIand so it was a very natural
(11:08):
thing for us.
I was very used to gettinginformation out of people's
heads about themselves, theircustomers, writing all this
stuff and plugging it intoframeworks and some dynamic
content stuff.
That did a really good job ofgetting people a first draft.
But now, taking that exact sameinput and then plugging in the
(11:32):
AI, they get a phenomenal input.
Because with our stuff it's notlike going over to ChatGPT and
saying, hey, I need a salesletter for real estate agents
for my course on how to get morelistings, and then you expect
ChachiBT to just magically giveyou a finished product that you
(11:54):
don't have any idea whether it'sany good or not.
Our stuff I might be feedingthis thing a 30,000 character
prompt, whereas most people thatdownload you know, hey, I got
the HubSpot free ebook on 10,000amazing chat GPT prompts and
(12:17):
it's really good and they're alllike one sentence.
So that is how I becameinterested in AI.
I saw it as the next naturalextension of what I'd already
been doing for almost 20 years.
Jackie Pelegrin (12:32):
Wow, that's great, I love that.
And you were able to build thatblueprint and then, when the
technology caught up with whatyou were already doing, it was,
like you said, a natural fit andyou were able to interweave the
technology as it got better.
So that's great, I love that100%.
Jim Edwards (12:50):
And so now we have like five different models that
we're plugged into.
So the way I created thesoftware I can plug into anybody
.
So if Nick and Tony's auto bodyand large language llama model
upstairs turns out to be thebest in the world, I can just
plug into there.
Jackie Pelegrin (13:09):
Wow, that's, that's awesome.
I love that.
Wow, so it's great because thensomeone who, like myself, we
were talking about before westarted this, recording how you
know, somebody that may not haverealized they could write a
book or be an author, um cantake content maybe that they
already have, like I have, frommy podcast, and that idea can
(13:30):
come to life now like it neverhas before, right With the help
of these tools that areavailable 100% For something
like copywriting and things thatyou're not going to be doing
all the time trying to learn howto be a prompt engineer, to
(13:50):
have it.
Jim Edwards (13:51):
Give you specifically copywriting stuff,
ads, marketing content, all thatstuff, and then knowing whether
it's any good or not.
That's the challenge, right,and so that's what we remove.
For people, you don't have tobe a great copywriter in order
to create great copy.
All you have to do, though, isknow exactly who your ideal
(14:16):
customer is and what motivatesthem, what their hot buttons are
, what gets them emotional,their problems, their questions,
their roadblocks all that.
Then you got to know your offer.
What are you trying to sell?
I mean, what makes it special,what makes it unique, what gives
you a strategic advantage overother people?
And then you also got to knowyourself.
(14:37):
How does your story, yourbackground, your uniqueness
factor into all that stuff?
That's what you need to know,but then you can load all that
into the software, and it takesit from there and integrates it
and just gives you what you need.
Jackie Pelegrin (14:52):
Wow, that's great.
Yeah, cause there's probablynot a lot of people that like me
that have two, two master'sdegrees.
I have a bachelor's in businessand then I have an MBA, and I
was going to go into businessand go into market research and
then things shifted and I endedup pivoting and changing
completely and then went intoeducation, got my second
(15:13):
master's in instructional design, and now I've been doing that
and been in higher ed for almosttwo decades now.
So it's kind of weird how Ithought I was going to go one
direction and had that firstmaster's and.
But you know, the MBA wasn't awaste.
It's helped me in what I'mdoing now, so it's not like it
was all for nothing, right?
Jim Edwards (15:33):
So, um, so it's kind of a unique thing.
No, education is a waste.
Jackie Pelegrin (15:37):
Right, exactly, yep, that's so true.
So you just never know wherelife takes you and then where
you can actually share thatinformation and be able to give
that unique perspective thatpeople are looking for.
So that's neat.
I like that, I love that.
So for those who might doubttheir intelligence I know I used
to for a while theircapabilities what empowering
(16:00):
message do you want to conveyabout their potential for
success?
Jim Edwards (16:03):
So when it comes to AI or just in general, Maybe
just in general.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:07):
Yeah, like, if they're doubting, you know that
they can be an author, write abook or, you know, do what you
had talked about with being ableto reach that audience that
they want to reach and becapable of doing that,
especially if they're notfamiliar with sales and
copywriting and stuff.
Jim Edwards (16:22):
So here's the thing , and the great thing about
what's happening right now isthat there's a lot of change
going on.
And because there's so muchchange going on, the I'm not
going to say the rules don'tapply, but the restrictions that
were there before have loosenedup because the playing field is
(16:46):
moving, the game board ischanging.
So I'm going to tell you a realquick story from back in 1991.
So when I got into the mortgagebusiness, the week that I got
into the mortgage business,there was a huge change in the
way that FHA loans were made,and FHA Federal Housing
(17:08):
Administration loans they'reheavily insured government loans
allow people to basically buy ahouse with a 3% down payment.
But they totally changed theway they calculated the mortgage
insurance and how peoplequalified for that loan.
And so that change meant andreal estate agents had to be
(17:31):
able to know how to figure outif first-time homebuyers and
lower-income homebuyers weregoing to be able to buy a house
or not.
Figured out pretty quick.
So me being two years out ofcollege, less than two years out
of college, and not afraid ofalgebra, I figured out a way to
be able to calculate thosemortgage insurance premiums and
(17:54):
stuff with one simple littlecalculation and it worked
perfectly.
It was just math.
So what I did was I ran aroundto all these different real
estate agents that I was goingto try and get business from,
because I had learned hey, youcreate a little farm, create a
territory, and no today doesn'tmean no tomorrow.
So I need to go out and meetthese people and bring some sort
(18:16):
of value to the table for that.
Well, lo and behold, when Ishowed up and I had a little
flyer with a headline of how tocalculate FHA loans in 60
seconds or less, even if yousuck at math, a people were like
who is this kid?
But then I taught.
I just started teaching peoplehow to do this thing and that
(18:40):
got me in.
I was not an annoying pest whowas there just trying to get
them to send loans.
I became a welcome guestbecause I brought value and very
quickly I parlayed that intohey, coming back and adding
value to people's lives.
Sometimes it was somethingsimple, sometimes it was major,
(19:00):
but my point is, because thingsare changing so fast and no one
can keep up with all of it.
The first thing you got to do isfigure out who do you want to
serve?
Who are you going to help?
Who are you going to be ablessing to?
Whether it's like you, jackie,helping people with
(19:23):
instructional design, flavoredwith some, you know, a little
bit of woo-woo and someself-actualization and some
other cool stuff, which isperfect, that's your flavor,
right, right?
And so you got to figure outwho you're going to serve, what
your flavor is going to be, andthen you just go at it with a
servant's mentality of what dothese people need and how can I
(19:47):
help them get it?
Because what's happening rightnow I mean whether it has to do
with AI or anything else.
I mean, how many old people haveno clue how to use social media
the right way?
I mean, how many people couldyeah, how many people could use
some help in doing realisticsocial media stuff in their
business?
(20:07):
Right, I mean, if you were inyour 20s and really understood
Instagram, tiktok and all thatstuff in doing realistic social
media stuff in their business, Imean, if you were in your 20s
and really understood Instagram,tiktok and all that stuff and
then had a track record of beingable to get views and stuff,
you could go get somebody tohire you to help them.
And if you got 10 people tohire you at one third of what
they would pay a full-timeperson, you'd be making three
(20:30):
times what you would make Okay,or more.
And so the key is, most peoplelook at what they don't have and
therefore they just get more ofthat.
But if you look at what you dohave going for you, you'd be
surprised.
But here's the big thing, Iwill tell you People pay to
(20:55):
solve problems and they pay toget results.
And if you can help peoplesolve a problem, if you can help
people to get a result,whatever it is, they'll pay you.
And because there's so muchchange going on right now,
nobody can keep up with all ofit.
So if you can just figure outhow to use AI for one specific
(21:17):
thing and become really, reallygood at that, you can go out and
have people hire you or payattention to you.
I always default to hey, I'mgoing to go find a customer and
sell them something, um, butthat's always been my mindset,
uh, and so I mean, the biggestthing I would tell you is if, if
(21:40):
you doubt yourself, look backat the stuff that you have done
any any time that you ever aregetting down on yourself and
you're not believing you can dosomething.
You've done stuff.
I mean I can't tell you, when Iwas, I was a theater kid.
I was really big into theaterand my junior year in high
school I beat out a bunch ofkids for a part in the school
(22:03):
play that I became the Duke ofEphesus, okay.
And then we ended up going tothe Folger theater in Washington
DC for their national highschool Shakespeare competition
and I ended up winning bestsupporting actor for the whole
competition.
That's amazing and that was abig deal.
(22:26):
But you know what, you know howmany times I have looked back
on that.
I mean, I remember sitting onmy bed with a tape recorder
learning my lines and doing allthat, finding that frame of
reference of stuff you've donein the past to give you
confidence that, hey, I may nothave done this, but I've done
other stuff that was harder.
(22:47):
I can figure this out.
Another thing you can do is I'mbig in making asset lists and
everyone's like asset list Doesit mean money in the bank or you
know?
Nope, asset list is, you know,I'm alive and on planet Earth.
I got access to the internet.
I got access to a library.
I got, you know, my, my sister,um, who can help me with stuff
(23:11):
to to figure things out at the.
I clearly remember I I wasactually.
I was a syndicated newspapercolumnist for 10 years and I got
that job.
Well, it wasn't even a job, butI got that column because I was
too stupid to know that Ishouldn't be asking somebody to
(23:33):
allow me to have a newspapercolumn, which then I would go
syndicate myself.
But I said, okay, I got my dadwho can help me edit my articles
.
I've got my sister who can helpme.
I've got a college degree.
It ain't that hard to write 500words and I mean I've got
access to the library, to theinternet, to this computer to
(23:56):
just start making these assetlists.
And if you're focused on whatyou got, you're going to be able
to make good stuff happen.
So I don't know if that's whatyou were looking for or not
Jackie.
Jackie Pelegrin (24:07):
I like that.
Yeah, look at what you haveinstead of what you don't have.
Yeah, and focus on that.
Yeah, that's great.
I love that.
Um, so could you share aninspiring success story of
someone who used your techniquesto transform their business?
You kind of went over that alittle bit, but do you have like
a specific story of someonethat came to you and, yeah, just
, uh, uh all of a sudden.
Jim Edwards (24:28):
Here's a recent one by a gentleman named Larry
Carter.
So Larry had been in, he wascareer Air Force, then he was uh
, had a another whole entirecareer as a chaplain for law
enforcement.
As a chaplain for lawenforcement, and so he wanted to
(24:58):
break into coaching chaplainsfor police, firefighter, first
responder roles, and he said youknow, I want to write a book.
And so he went through ourprocess.
He wrote his book, crossinginto Purpose, where service
meets significance.
He never thought he'd ever beable to write a book.
I mean, we've helped countlesspeople go through this and he
(25:20):
contacted me, though, and thisis where it was like oh, I got
to sell a gajillion copies.
He contacted me after he sold50 copies.
He said I just want you to knowI've sold 50 copies of my book
and I'm really proud of myself.
So I had him on my podcast andwe were talking.
He sold 50 copies, but he alsogot a chief of police.
(25:41):
Because of selling those copies.
He had a chief of police bringhim in to do training and the
dude's building a six figuretraining business selling a $14
book.
That if he sells just a fewhundred, because how many people
are actually first responderpolice for, you know,
firefighter chaplains.
His market's not all that big,but he's building a six figure
(26:05):
business around the book that hewrote using AI.
But more important than that,because I'm going to digress for
just a second Okay, so we'regoing to put a pin in this.
Most people, jackie, are tryingto figure out how to use AI to
(26:26):
replace themselves.
Jackie Pelegrin (26:28):
That's true.
Jim Edwards (26:28):
Yeah, and that is a really stupid thing to do.
Jackie Pelegrin (26:34):
I would agree.
Jim Edwards (26:35):
You should be using AI to eliminate let's call it
mundane intellectual labor fromyour life.
All right, so responding toemails or drafting dopey email
responses and stuff, yeah, useAI for that.
But you certainly should not betreating AI like it's some
(26:57):
giant vending machine that'sjust going to figure out how to
walk like you, talk like you,think like you, and then going
to spit stuff out to you thatyou can turn around and show to
the world like look what I did,mommy, and then expect to get a
reward.
Right, because it's not goingto happen If everybody else is
going to the same water fountainknown as Chachi, pt or Grok or
(27:19):
Llama or whatever.
Gemma, gemma, if you try toreplace yourself with AI, you're
probably going to be able to doit, and then you will have
absolutely no value to anyone.
We need to start looking at AIas a way to amplify our voice
(27:41):
and accelerate our ability toget the stuff done that we're
supposed to do, stuff done thatwe're supposed to do, not to
replace ourselves, so that we'regoing to try and live Tim
Ferriss's book with the you know, not the five hour work week,
but the five minute work week.
Oh, I can set up some agents andthen I'll sell agents and just
all this BS you see on YouTubeabout you know how to make
(28:04):
$5,963 a day.
Copy me.
It's all.
Can I say the BS word, or wouldyou prefer I didn't?
It's all bullshit, jackie.
It's not true, because if thosedudes were all making $10,000 a
day with AI, they wouldn't bemaking some janky video on
YouTube to teach you how to make$10,000 a day using AI.
(28:27):
They just wouldn't.
Jackie Pelegrin (28:29):
They say, if it's too good to be true, it
usually is.
Jim Edwards (28:32):
Well and okay.
From another standpoint, if youreplace yourself with AI, what
are you going to do?
You can only play so much Xbox.
You can only eat so many Oreos.
You can only look at so muchidiotic stuff on Facebook or
social media.
At some point, where's yourlife going to have any meaning
(28:54):
whatsoever?
Jackie Pelegrin (28:55):
There's no purpose anymore.
Yeah.
Jim Edwards (28:57):
Right Now.
That doesn't mean I can't useAI to help me.
Just put together the stuffthat I need to put together to
amplify my voice or to share mymessage.
I do it all the time, I do itevery day, but it's an
accelerant it's.
You know, is it more noble tocut down a cheat tree with an ax
(29:20):
, or, if you can get a chainsaw,and cut that puppy down, limb
it up, log it real quick and getthe same job done in 15 minutes
as opposed to three hours?
Is it more noble to type it upat a typewriter or to know how
to feed in your stuff into AI tobe able to then have it spit
back out, your stuff and thenyou take it, curate it and then
(29:44):
you do something with it?
Right, yeah, and I think that'sthere's really.
There's a fork in the road thatmost people have already taken
who are using AI.
They've either decidedinstinctively hey, you know what
I need to use this just toaccelerate my message, like what
we were talking about in thepre-interview that you, you know
, you're taking your podcaststuff and you're taking some
(30:06):
things that you've done andyou're having AI help you turn
it into a book.
You didn't say to me hey, jim,I found a prompt on Facebook
that I can give to ChatGPT andit wrote a book for me.
That's not what you said.
You used it to help you get itdone faster.
The other fork is literallyoblivion.
(30:26):
It's literally oblivion thatyou are going to try and replace
yourself with this thing, andso that's just dumb.
So what Larry's doing?
Back to Larry.
Okay, now we're back from thatside trip.
Jackie Pelegrin (30:41):
Yeah, I love this story, Larry chose to
shortcut the process.
Jim Edwards (30:45):
Instead of being like me with my first book,
where it took me four years towrite my first book.
My most recent book took mefive days, and it's still.
My book is just faster, andthat's so.
Anybody who is using AI toamplify and accelerate the work
that they are supposed to bedoing is being successful.
Jackie Pelegrin (31:09):
Absolutely.
Jim Edwards (31:10):
Whether they're using our tools or not.
Jackie Pelegrin (31:13):
Yeah, like I mentioned, I do it with my
podcast now and it's it's spedup my work exponentially to be
able to just say hey, can yougive me ideas for some episode?
You know ideas and things likethat, and then I have it, helped
me write an outline, and then Ifill in all the details and of
course I check the work becauseit hallucinates, we know that.
(31:35):
So it doesn't get thingscorrect.
So that's why I tell mystudents to don't take it for
what it is, just use it as atool.
Jim Edwards (31:44):
I don't think it hallucinates.
I think it's stoned out of itsgourd, probably Sometimes.
But the way I visualize it andy'all can't see this.
But I want you to envision abattery, okay, and that battery
has a certain amount of juice init and let's say it's
represented by some red lines.
So you got like 10 red lines ofjuice.
(32:06):
And in the past, if you wantedto, let's just say, write an
article, so when I was writingmy syndicated newspaper article,
I would literally take fourhours on a Sunday to write this
thing.
And so you've got to create theidea.
Then you got to do the outline,then you got to do the first
draft, then you got kind ofmassage it and work it and come
(32:30):
up with a second draft.
Well, as you're going throughthat whole thing to try and get
to the final draft, you'relosing more and more and more
and more of that energy andyou're depleting the battery
until there's not that much leftRight.
Well, now, if you're using AI,is it cheating to have AI help
(32:51):
you come up with 10 differentideas for this week's article?
In my opinion, no, I don'tthink so.
I don't think so If I can getmy ideas in about two minutes to
choose from, as opposed tothinking about it for 20 minutes
.
I've saved a whole bunch oftime, energy and effort,
psychically, energetically,otherwise, if I can say, hey,
(33:13):
these are the five things I wantto talk about, or give me some
ideas, some things to talk about.
Okay, those are five things Iwant to talk about.
Now let's come up with anoutline, okay.
So now I want to talk aboutthis and this and this and this,
and maybe even I dictate itinto the AI.
So I just start talking out thepoints and then I tell it hey,
(33:33):
you know what I've talked for awhile, jackie, I know it's hard
to believe, but I don't have anyproblem talking for as long as
someone will listen.
But I just talk it out and thentell it hey, now what I want
you to do is clean this up.
I just talk it out and thentell it hey, now what I want you
to do is clean this up.
It's a transcript, make itsound like it was written in a
(33:54):
friendly, you know whateverstyle.
Well, now AI can take mythoughts and turn my thoughts
into the draft of that blog postor that article.
It's all my stuff.
Just AI is accelerating theprocess and then it hands it to
me.
I'm like, yeah, that soundspretty much like me.
Now I'm just going to gothrough and do a quick edit.
(34:14):
Well, hey, instead of burningout nine and a half of my 10
bars, I've only used up five.
So now I have still psychicother energy and time left over
to do the most important thing.
Especially when we're talkingabout creating content or sales
copy, I have time and energy togo promote it.
(34:38):
Because, see, here's theproblem, jackie, we have been
trained especially peopleliberal, that kind of thing.
As soon as I can hold it up andsay here it is, it's done, give
me my A, I'm finished.
But in the world of contentcreation, content marketing,
(35:01):
sales copy, getting that thingdone is just the beginning,
right?
Because if you make it anddon't promote it, you might as
well have just been on the umthe couch playing Xbox, eating
fudge rounds, because you're notgoing to get any good result
from it.
Jackie Pelegrin (35:20):
It's just going to collect dust Right and just
sit on a shelf.
Jim Edwards (35:24):
Not even that.
It's just going to collect upelectron dust.
Yeah, exactly If it's a neatyeah that we all are going to
have to make.
We need to shift from thinkingthat being a creator is what we
(35:45):
want to be and we need to makethe mental shift from creator to
curator.
I love that it has elements ofcreator.
We cause the thing that we wantto have to be created by using
the tools, and then we have tobe a curator.
(36:07):
So, instead of spending 90% ofthe time coming up with the
thing, spend 30% of your timecoming up with the thing and
then 70% of your time makingsure it's good and getting it
out there right.
Jackie Pelegrin (36:19):
That's the difference between the creator
mindset and the curator mindsetit's a complete mind shift now,
yeah, we're turning it on itshead right but but you can't.
Jim Edwards (36:31):
Nobody rewards just .
You know, I could start sendingall my stuff to jackie and be
like hey, can I have an?
A pro professor, can I have an?
A?
She's like yeah, I have an a.
She's like yeah, here's thename she typed.
She typed an a in the Gmailback and it's like thanks, I
can't eat it.
I mean it can't spend it.
But sure, here's your age, Jim,you can start selling a's for
like a hundred bucks.
(36:51):
I don't want to get you introuble, but I mean.
Jackie Pelegrin (37:02):
Well, it's like with the tests with students
that I could search for classesthat I help with GCU, and all of
a sudden you type in the titleof the course or the course code
and you find the quizzes online, and so it's a constant
challenge of that.
And so, yeah, it's like, yeah,quizzes have value, but if
people can just sell them on theinternet then, yeah, it takes
away from that.
Jim Edwards (37:22):
So yep, I think it's all going to.
You know how are you going tosolve it?
It's, it's all going to have togo back to blue book, yeah, and
everybody's going to have tosit there with their fat little
pen and fill the thing out, andyou're going to have to wand
them, like at the airport, forany kind of smart device, like
you know.
(37:42):
Okay, give me your earbuds,take your watch off.
You're going to have to inspecttheir glasses to make sure they
don't have the heads up displaythat they're able to murmur to
the thing to show it?
yeah, and the problem is, isthat kids these days Jackie, my
grandson's heading to VMI thisFriday, so he's starting as a
(38:02):
freshman you can't cheatyourself.
In other words, if you couldfind the tests online, sure,
look at them.
If you could find, you know.
But ultimately, the wholepurpose here of education, the
whole purpose of contentcreation or right, is for you to
grow as a person, for you toit's, it's great you can go find
(38:26):
the answer.
But if you don't know, if youhaven't developed that muscle to
be able to create the answer,to create the thing, or to know
if it's right or not, it doesn'teven.
You don't even have to be theone who knows how to create the
answer.
You need to know how to knowwhether it's correct or it's any
good.
That's the ultimate skill wherewe're trying to get these
(38:48):
people and kids and adults andeverybody to.
Now.
I don't care how you got theanswer anymore, I really don't,
as long as you know how theanswer is created and whether
the end product is any good ornot.
Jackie Pelegrin (39:01):
Exactly.
Yeah, that's so true.
Yeah, because if we so manyinstructors today they want to
police AI, and I know someinstructors at GCU that are just
like no, hands off.
And I'm like, yeah, but if youtell them no, they can't use it
while they're in school, andwhile you can teach them to use
it ethically, then when they getin the workforce, they're going
(39:23):
to just want to still cheat,right, and so teaching them how
to use it, how to haveboundaries around it while
they're in school and say, hey,you know what, if you cheat and
with your paper, you're doingyourself a disservice and you're
doing everybody else thatyou're you're wanting to serve a
disservice in the future.
Yeah, so it's very interestinghow I have I've shifted the
(39:44):
mindset with.
My students are like can I useit?
And I'm like, yes, you can useit, but just know how to use it
ethically and know that it's atool and it's not replacing us.
Yeah, hopefully that fear goesaway, because so many people are
like is my job going to go away?
And I'm like, no, I don't thinkso.
I think it's just this is a forme, it's a virtual assistant,
it's a way to like you displayedso well and talked about you
(40:08):
know.
So it's great, I love it.
So, as we kind of cap this off,what are some tips and advice
you can share with those who arecurrently in the master's
program that I teach for ininstructional design at Grand
Canyon University?
Jim Edwards (40:22):
So I would just say that what you are learning
about teaching people how tolearn and structuring things so
people will learn is going to bemore important moving forward
than ever, because anybody cango to now ChatGPT or Google or
(40:42):
whoever's version of a largelanguage model, and I call it
data versus soul Data, I see asan acronym.
You go to GPT and it gives youdata, which stands for default
answers to anything.
Anybody can go get a defaultanswer.
That just sounds about goodenough.
It's Wikipedia level.
(41:03):
But what is really going tomake a difference and make
people pay attention to you andreally want to be a part of what
you're doing is what we referto as soul content, and soul
content is again an acronym forstories, observations, unique
perspective and lessons learned.
In the end, if you want peopleto pay attention to what you're
(41:25):
teaching them, you got to beable to tell a story to make it
relevant.
You got to be able to give thema unique perspective on the
data in order to make itinteresting.
You've got to be able to shareobservations that only can come
from experience, that again aregoing to dimensionalize that
(41:46):
data, and then lessons learned,the ultimate thing of I've been
there.
I've done that I got thet-shirt.
Here's what's happened andhere's what you can learn from
it.
And, interestingly enough, if Iuse the example of if I tell you
the story of the very firstbook I ever sold online, back
before the turn of the centuryliterally, and now this century
(42:11):
is a quarter of a century past,which really makes me feel old
yeah, me too.
But if I tell you about theshock when I saw, oh my God,
there's an order here.
And then when I realized I hadno way to process the credit
card payment because I didn'tthink anybody was ever going to
(42:32):
buy it.
And then I called my aunt atthe Williamsburg Outlet Mall and
asked her if I could process mycredit card orders through her
craft mall and how.
She said sure.
And then I had to explain tothis guy somewhere that bought
this book why his credit carddetails were going to reflect
country treasures instead ofselling your home alone the book
(42:55):
.
And all through that I realizedif I could get one person to
buy from me, I could get athousand people to buy from me
and it was going to change mylife.
And if I tell you that story,and then I say, by the way, here
are five tips on how to makeyour very first book sale.
Do you care if ChatGPT wrotethose five tips?
(43:20):
No, I don't know, because thatstory got you so hooked.
Anything else I do slides rightunder your anti GPT radar.
You don't care, because I'msharing a piece of my soul with
you.
Yeah, and that is going to beone of the most important things
(43:41):
that anyone who is an education, an educator, an educational
design person or anybody who'sputting together anything to
teach anybody anything, youbetter have some soul up front
to give some context to thestuff on the back end.
That it doesn't matter whocreated it, because it's all
just data, right?
Jackie Pelegrin (44:02):
I love that.
That's great advice because,yeah, especially now in this
data-driven world that we're in,right, yeah, we have to have
that human experience.
We can't lose that humanexperience and that soul that's
so important.
Absolutely Right, a hundredpercent, yeah Well, thank you,
Jim, for your time and yourexpertise.
I appreciate it.
I'd love to have you back onthe show and we can talk about
(44:25):
some other topics.
Yeah, that'd be fun.
Once I get into some of thesethings and we start talking,
it's like, oh, we could expandupon this and there's so many
different great things that wecan delve into a little bit more
, so I'd love to do thatsometime.
Jim Edwards (44:38):
I'd be happy to.
Jackie Pelegrin (44:38):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you, jim, appreciate it.
Thank you for taking some timeto listen to this podcast
episode today.
Your support means the world tome.
If you'd like to help keep thepodcast going, you can share it
with a friend or colleague,leave a heartfelt review or
offer a monetary contribution.
Every act of support, big orsmall, makes a difference and
(45:02):
I'm truly thankful for you.
Hello and welcome to the Designing with
Love podcast.
I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you
information, tips, and tricks asan instructional designer.
Hello, GCU students, alumni,and fellow educators, welcome to
episode 53 of the Designingwith Love podcast.
(00:22):
Today, I have the pleasure ofinterviewing Jim Edwards, a
bestselling author and founderof Guaranteed Response Marketing
LLC.
Welcome, Jim.
Jim Edwards (00:31):
Hey, I'm excited to be here.
Jackie, Thanks for having me.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:34):
Yes, thank you too.
I'm glad we got connected onPodmatch.
It's wonderful.
Can you tell us a little bitabout yourself?
Jim Edwards (00:41):
I am.
It's funny when people ask youwhat do you do and you're like
you get.
That whole big resume thinggoes through you.
But if I had to summarize it ina single sentence, I am a
software developer and an authorwho helps people figure out how
to put words on a page or in anemail or out of their mouth
(01:03):
that persuade other people togive them money.
Jackie Pelegrin (01:06):
I like that.
That's great.
Jim Edwards (01:09):
That's what I do in one sentence.
Jackie Pelegrin (01:12):
In a nutshell Great, that's great.
Can you share what inspired youto dive into the world of AI
and sales copywriting,especially since AI is
everywhere right today?
Jim Edwards (01:23):
Yeah, now that is going to be a much longer answer
, so that will be a pomegranate.
The other thing was a nutshell.
This is a pomegranate, so youknow it's funny.
I actually graduated fromWilliam Mary back in the 80s
with a degree in history and Icould have had a minor in
Chinese comparative literatureif I had not been drunk the
(01:44):
whole month of March, my senioryear, and had gone and filled
out the paperwork.
We're just getting real, jackie.
Okay, I mean, the time limit onthe penalties for that has
expired.
So, interestingly enough, whenyou graduate with a degree in
history and you aren't going toget a master's in teaching, you
(02:06):
are eminently qualified to goget a job in 100% commission
sales.
So I went and got a job insales and I quit or got fired
from seven different jobs myfirst 18 months out of school
and the best job I could findwas working at Domino's.
But then every time I had oneof those jobs I learned
something else about sales.
(02:27):
I learned about how to talk topeople.
I learned about how to prospect, how to follow up, how to not
see no as no forever, but justno for today.
And then I was actually workingat a place called Nutrisystem,
when they had physical locations.
I sold the lady and she said,wow, you'd be really good in my
(02:52):
business.
I remember thinking, well, I'vebeen in almost every other
business, what do you do?
I said, oh, really, tell meabout it.
She told me about the mortgagebusiness.
Long story short, I went in themortgage business and I was 23
years old and I started makingabout $100,000 a year, which
back in 1991, $100,000 a year isa lot of money.
(03:14):
Yes absolutely, and so I wasdoing really well.
I met a girl.
She told me, hey, you're prettysmart, you should write a book.
And I'm like, hey, yeah, I'msmart, I'll write a book.
So I took four years to write abook and I had since married
that lady, been married to herfor 31 years now, and I tried to
(03:36):
get a publisher.
Nobody would publish my book.
I got turned down by 40different publishers.
It was more than that.
I just stopped counting at 40.
Book I got turned down by 40different publishers.
It was more than that.
I just stopped counting at 40.
So in 1997, I ran into afraternity brother at William
and Mary at Homecoming and hementioned that he and his dad
had bought a web server.
Well, this is when the web wasfirst firing up, really the
(03:57):
worldwide web and stuff.
And I asked him a question thathe was totally unqualified to
answer and I said, hey, do youthink I could sell my book on
the internet?
And he's like, sure, and youcan buy web hosting services
from us.
This is he was.
I was paying in 1997.
I started paying 125 bucks amonth for 10 megabytes of web
(04:20):
space.
Jackie Pelegrin (04:20):
Oh my gosh.
Jim Edwards (04:21):
Yeah, it was, yeah, Expensive, yeah, very so.
Then I had to figure out how tosell.
So everybody was talking aboutyou got to have this big sticky
website.
So I, you know, after I've Ilearned how to do HTML, I
learned how to do all this stuffand I had this 40 page website.
And for four years I wasstruggling along.
(04:42):
It was just this basic littlehobby.
And for four years I wasstruggling along.
It was just this basic littlehobby.
And then, in 2001, I gotexposed to the idea of a
one-page sales letter, which isthose big, long sales letters
that everybody hates but yeteverybody buys from them if
they're interested in the thing.
So somebody reads your salesletter and says, well, it's too
(05:04):
long and they're just not inyour target audience.
So it was funny because I wasactually even speaking at that
event.
I taught a 12 point salesletter and I said, hey, I can do
that, Cause it was always kindof.
Even back in school, I wasalways looking for the
underlying formula.
I was always looking for theunderlying formula.
(05:25):
I was always looking for theunderlying pattern, Like in 11th
, I mean, I did really well inEnglish.
You know, I got the highestgrade on my paper in my AP
English class.
I you know my still still holdthat little star, but I was
always fascinated with thepatterns that created the
pleasing result.
(05:45):
You know, I still remember thatthe best way to do a summary
sentence for a paper is to gotherefore.
I mean, your best concludingsentence always starts with
therefore.
So I just took to it like aduck to water and that night I
was staying in a hotel at theconference and I took his
(06:08):
formula and I applied it to my40 page website, got rid of a
bunch of stuff, took some thingsthat I was giving away for free
, turned them into bonuses thatyou only got when you bought,
and my sales literally went up250% overnight, literally, Wow,
literally went up 250% overnight, literally.
Jackie Pelegrin (06:26):
Wow, that's amazing.
Jim Edwards (06:26):
I two and a half times my sales by going from a
40 page website to a one pagelong form sales letter.
And I was hooked and I startedreading every book I could read.
I started learning and I wasjust like, if I can do this with
one, let me do another, andanother, and another.
And I think in that first yearI wrote 10 sales letters to sell
stuff.
(06:46):
Some of them hit, some of themdidn't, a couple of them hit
huge, and so I ended up justbeing fascinated with not just
making stuff and figuring stuffout, but then I had to figure
out how to sell it stuff out.
But then I had to figure outhow to sell it.
And then you know this is backeven before the turn of the
(07:08):
century and stuff, but figuringout how to do this stuff on
dial-up.
Then you know how to do audiofiles and how to do screen
capture video, then how to dofull motion video, then how to
do membership sites, then howand all these things.
And so what I would do is I'dlearn how to do something and
sooner or later customers wouldstart asking me how to do
something and sooner or latercustomers would start asking me
hey, how are you doing that?
(07:28):
And so I'd turn around andteach a class based on what I
had done.
But then what I did was Itaught them how to sell what I
had taught them how to make soif they had written a book you
know, I've been teaching peoplehow to write books since 2001.
Tens of thousands of peopleI've helped to write and publish
their books fast.
(07:48):
And so I became kind of theaccidental copywriting coach.
Then, in 2006, I actuallylicensed my first piece of
software from somebody who had alittle fill in the blank thing
called.
Well, I don't remember what histhing was called, but I private
(08:12):
labeled it as quick sales copy.
You can't I mean the user can'tsee that, but I'm showing you
the thing.
That's what I look like like 35years ago, 35 years ago.
And so that's when I got hookedon.
(08:33):
How can?
Because copywriting is such arepeatable formula, it has very
specific formulas.
I said there's got to be a waywe can use software to help
create the first draft.
And so I became fascinated withframeworks and with patterns
and blueprints and templates andall these different things.
And so I, in 2006, I started.
(08:55):
I hired a developer who's beenwith me ever since.
Side note when I hired this kidhe's not a kid anymore.
I hired this kid he's not a kidanymore but when I hired him he
was 18 years old and living inSiberia.
I found him through a sitecalled Elance.
Oh yeah, and so he.
You remember Elance from?
(09:15):
way back in the day Yep, I do.
Then they became Rent-A-Coderand then I don't know what up or
anyway, I digress we juststarted developing this platform
.
And so in 2016, we haddeveloped this platform really
far, we morphed it into anotherplatform called Funnel Scripts.
(09:39):
That had over 100,000 users andit was all about sales copy,
and so we sold that for a while,and about three and a half four
years ago, gpt-2 came out.
It gets a little muddy, butGPT-2 came out.
I was like, hey, that's kind ofcute, maybe there's some future
(10:00):
there.
And I started developing my ownlarge language model future
there.
And I started developing my ownlarge language model because
when GPT-3 came out, microsoftgrabbed it and put it under
wraps, like they were the onlyperson to license it.
You couldn't use GPT-3.
And then they came out withsome stuff with open AI, right,
but long story short, I spent aton of money and practically lit
(10:21):
up the entire eastern half ofthe United States with all these
servers that we were burning onto train this language model,
and I spent a lot of money, alot of money my wife still
reminds me of the money that wespent on that and so I got this
thing all trained up and a weeklater they came out with OpenAI
(10:43):
having an API into GPT-3.
And then right after that 3.5.
And so it was what it was.
So we took my existing softwarethat I'd been developing then
for 15 years 15, 16 years and wejust plugged it into OpenAI and
we just plugged it into OpenAIand so it was a very natural
(11:08):
thing for us.
I was very used to gettinginformation out of people's
heads about themselves, theircustomers, writing all this
stuff and plugging it intoframeworks and some dynamic
content stuff.
That did a really good job ofgetting people a first draft.
But now, taking that exact sameinput and then plugging in the
(11:32):
AI, they get a phenomenal input.
Because with our stuff it's notlike going over to ChatGPT and
saying, hey, I need a salesletter for real estate agents
for my course on how to get morelistings, and then you expect
ChachiBT to just magically giveyou a finished product that you
(11:54):
don't have any idea whether it'sany good or not.
Our stuff I might be feedingthis thing a 30,000 character
prompt, whereas most people thatdownload you know, hey, I got
the HubSpot free ebook on 10,000amazing chat GPT prompts and
(12:17):
it's really good and they're alllike one sentence.
So that is how I becameinterested in AI.
I saw it as the next naturalextension of what I'd already
been doing for almost 20 years.
Jackie Pelegrin (12:32):
Wow, that's great, I love that.
And you were able to build thatblueprint and then, when the
technology caught up with whatyou were already doing, it was,
like you said, a natural fit andyou were able to interweave the
technology as it got better.
So that's great, I love that100%.
Jim Edwards (12:50):
And so now we have like five different models that
we're plugged into.
So the way I created thesoftware I can plug into anybody
.
So if Nick and Tony's auto bodyand large language llama model
upstairs turns out to be thebest in the world, I can just
plug into there.
Jackie Pelegrin (13:09):
Wow, that's, that's awesome.
I love that.
Wow, so it's great because thensomeone who, like myself, we
were talking about before westarted this, recording how you
know, somebody that may not haverealized they could write a
book or be an author, um cantake content maybe that they
already have, like I have, frommy podcast, and that idea can
(13:30):
come to life now like it neverhas before, right With the help
of these tools that areavailable 100% For something
like copywriting and things thatyou're not going to be doing
all the time trying to learn howto be a prompt engineer, to
(13:50):
have it.
Jim Edwards (13:51):
Give you specifically copywriting stuff,
ads, marketing content, all thatstuff, and then knowing whether
it's any good or not.
That's the challenge, right,and so that's what we remove.
For people, you don't have tobe a great copywriter in order
to create great copy.
All you have to do, though, isknow exactly who your ideal
(14:16):
customer is and what motivatesthem, what their hot buttons are
, what gets them emotional,their problems, their questions,
their roadblocks all that.
Then you got to know your offer.
What are you trying to sell?
I mean, what makes it special,what makes it unique, what gives
you a strategic advantage overother people?
And then you also got to knowyourself.
(14:37):
How does your story, yourbackground, your uniqueness
factor into all that stuff?
That's what you need to know,but then you can load all that
into the software, and it takesit from there and integrates it
and just gives you what you need.
Jackie Pelegrin (14:52):
Wow, that's great.
Yeah, cause there's probablynot a lot of people that like me
that have two, two master'sdegrees.
I have a bachelor's in businessand then I have an MBA, and I
was going to go into businessand go into market research and
then things shifted and I endedup pivoting and changing
completely and then went intoeducation, got my second
(15:13):
master's in instructional design, and now I've been doing that
and been in higher ed for almosttwo decades now.
So it's kind of weird how Ithought I was going to go one
direction and had that firstmaster's and.
But you know, the MBA wasn't awaste.
It's helped me in what I'mdoing now, so it's not like it
was all for nothing, right?
Jim Edwards (15:33):
So, um, so it's kind of a unique thing.
No, education is a waste.
Jackie Pelegrin (15:37):
Right, exactly, yep, that's so true.
So you just never know wherelife takes you and then where
you can actually share thatinformation and be able to give
that unique perspective thatpeople are looking for.
So that's neat.
I like that, I love that.
So for those who might doubttheir intelligence I know I used
to for a while theircapabilities what empowering
(16:00):
message do you want to conveyabout their potential for
success?
Jim Edwards (16:03):
So when it comes to AI or just in general, Maybe
just in general.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:07):
Yeah, like, if they're doubting, you know that
they can be an author, write abook or, you know, do what you
had talked about with being ableto reach that audience that
they want to reach and becapable of doing that,
especially if they're notfamiliar with sales and
copywriting and stuff.
Jim Edwards (16:22):
So here's the thing , and the great thing about
what's happening right now isthat there's a lot of change
going on.
And because there's so muchchange going on, the I'm not
going to say the rules don'tapply, but the restrictions that
were there before have loosenedup because the playing field is
(16:46):
moving, the game board ischanging.
So I'm going to tell you a realquick story from back in 1991.
So when I got into the mortgagebusiness, the week that I got
into the mortgage business,there was a huge change in the
way that FHA loans were made,and FHA Federal Housing
(17:08):
Administration loans they'reheavily insured government loans
allow people to basically buy ahouse with a 3% down payment.
But they totally changed theway they calculated the mortgage
insurance and how peoplequalified for that loan.
And so that change meant andreal estate agents had to be
(17:31):
able to know how to figure outif first-time homebuyers and
lower-income homebuyers weregoing to be able to buy a house
or not.
Figured out pretty quick.
So me being two years out ofcollege, less than two years out
of college, and not afraid ofalgebra, I figured out a way to
be able to calculate thosemortgage insurance premiums and
(17:54):
stuff with one simple littlecalculation and it worked
perfectly.
It was just math.
So what I did was I ran aroundto all these different real
estate agents that I was goingto try and get business from,
because I had learned hey, youcreate a little farm, create a
territory, and no today doesn'tmean no tomorrow.
So I need to go out and meetthese people and bring some sort
(18:16):
of value to the table for that.
Well, lo and behold, when Ishowed up and I had a little
flyer with a headline of how tocalculate FHA loans in 60
seconds or less, even if yousuck at math, a people were like
who is this kid?
But then I taught.
I just started teaching peoplehow to do this thing and that
(18:40):
got me in.
I was not an annoying pest whowas there just trying to get
them to send loans.
I became a welcome guestbecause I brought value and very
quickly I parlayed that intohey, coming back and adding
value to people's lives.
Sometimes it was somethingsimple, sometimes it was major,
(19:00):
but my point is, because thingsare changing so fast and no one
can keep up with all of it.
The first thing you got to do isfigure out who do you want to
serve?
Who are you going to help?
Who are you going to be ablessing to?
Whether it's like you, jackie,helping people with
(19:23):
instructional design, flavoredwith some, you know, a little
bit of woo-woo and someself-actualization and some
other cool stuff, which isperfect, that's your flavor,
right, right?
And so you got to figure outwho you're going to serve, what
your flavor is going to be, andthen you just go at it with a
servant's mentality of what dothese people need and how can I
(19:47):
help them get it?
Because what's happening rightnow I mean whether it has to do
with AI or anything else.
I mean, how many old people haveno clue how to use social media
the right way?
I mean, how many people couldyeah, how many people could use
some help in doing realisticsocial media stuff in their
business?
(20:07):
Right, I mean, if you were inyour 20s and really understood
Instagram, tiktok and all thatstuff in doing realistic social
media stuff in their business, Imean, if you were in your 20s
and really understood Instagram,tiktok and all that stuff and
then had a track record of beingable to get views and stuff,
you could go get somebody tohire you to help them.
And if you got 10 people tohire you at one third of what
they would pay a full-timeperson, you'd be making three
(20:30):
times what you would make Okay,or more.
And so the key is, most peoplelook at what they don't have and
therefore they just get more ofthat.
But if you look at what you dohave going for you, you'd be
surprised.
But here's the big thing, Iwill tell you People pay to
(20:55):
solve problems and they pay toget results.
And if you can help peoplesolve a problem, if you can help
people to get a result,whatever it is, they'll pay you.
And because there's so muchchange going on right now,
nobody can keep up with all ofit.
So if you can just figure outhow to use AI for one specific
(21:17):
thing and become really, reallygood at that, you can go out and
have people hire you or payattention to you.
I always default to hey, I'mgoing to go find a customer and
sell them something, um, butthat's always been my mindset,
uh, and so I mean, the biggestthing I would tell you is if, if
(21:40):
you doubt yourself, look backat the stuff that you have done
any any time that you ever aregetting down on yourself and
you're not believing you can dosomething.
You've done stuff.
I mean I can't tell you, when Iwas, I was a theater kid.
I was really big into theaterand my junior year in high
school I beat out a bunch ofkids for a part in the school
(22:03):
play that I became the Duke ofEphesus, okay.
And then we ended up going tothe Folger theater in Washington
DC for their national highschool Shakespeare competition
and I ended up winning bestsupporting actor for the whole
competition.
That's amazing and that was abig deal.
(22:26):
But you know what, you know howmany times I have looked back
on that.
I mean, I remember sitting onmy bed with a tape recorder
learning my lines and doing allthat, finding that frame of
reference of stuff you've donein the past to give you
confidence that, hey, I may nothave done this, but I've done
other stuff that was harder.
(22:47):
I can figure this out.
Another thing you can do is I'mbig in making asset lists and
everyone's like asset list Doesit mean money in the bank or you
know?
Nope, asset list is, you know,I'm alive and on planet Earth.
I got access to the internet.
I got access to a library.
I got, you know, my, my sister,um, who can help me with stuff
(23:11):
to to figure things out at the.
I clearly remember I I wasactually.
I was a syndicated newspapercolumnist for 10 years and I got
that job.
Well, it wasn't even a job, butI got that column because I was
too stupid to know that Ishouldn't be asking somebody to
(23:33):
allow me to have a newspapercolumn, which then I would go
syndicate myself.
But I said, okay, I got my dadwho can help me edit my articles
.
I've got my sister who can helpme.
I've got a college degree.
It ain't that hard to write 500words and I mean I've got
access to the library, to theinternet, to this computer to
(23:56):
just start making these assetlists.
And if you're focused on whatyou got, you're going to be able
to make good stuff happen.
So I don't know if that's whatyou were looking for or not
Jackie.
Jackie Pelegrin (24:07):
I like that.
Yeah, look at what you haveinstead of what you don't have.
Yeah, and focus on that.
Yeah, that's great.
I love that.
Um, so could you share aninspiring success story of
someone who used your techniquesto transform their business?
You kind of went over that alittle bit, but do you have like
a specific story of someonethat came to you and, yeah, just
, uh, uh all of a sudden.
Jim Edwards (24:28):
Here's a recent one by a gentleman named Larry
Carter.
So Larry had been in, he wascareer Air Force, then he was uh
, had a another whole entirecareer as a chaplain for law
enforcement.
As a chaplain for lawenforcement, and so he wanted to
(24:58):
break into coaching chaplainsfor police, firefighter, first
responder roles, and he said youknow, I want to write a book.
And so he went through ourprocess.
He wrote his book, crossinginto Purpose, where service
meets significance.
He never thought he'd ever beable to write a book.
I mean, we've helped countlesspeople go through this and he
(25:20):
contacted me, though, and thisis where it was like oh, I got
to sell a gajillion copies.
He contacted me after he sold50 copies.
He said I just want you to knowI've sold 50 copies of my book
and I'm really proud of myself.
So I had him on my podcast andwe were talking.
He sold 50 copies, but he alsogot a chief of police.
(25:41):
Because of selling those copies.
He had a chief of police bringhim in to do training and the
dude's building a six figuretraining business selling a $14
book.
That if he sells just a fewhundred, because how many people
are actually first responderpolice for, you know,
firefighter chaplains.
His market's not all that big,but he's building a six figure
(26:05):
business around the book that hewrote using AI.
But more important than that,because I'm going to digress for
just a second Okay, so we'regoing to put a pin in this.
Most people, jackie, are tryingto figure out how to use AI to
(26:26):
replace themselves.
Jackie Pelegrin (26:28):
That's true.
Jim Edwards (26:28):
Yeah, and that is a really stupid thing to do.
Jackie Pelegrin (26:34):
I would agree.
Jim Edwards (26:35):
You should be using AI to eliminate let's call it
mundane intellectual labor fromyour life.
All right, so responding toemails or drafting dopey email
responses and stuff, yeah, useAI for that.
But you certainly should not betreating AI like it's some
(26:57):
giant vending machine that'sjust going to figure out how to
walk like you, talk like you,think like you, and then going
to spit stuff out to you thatyou can turn around and show to
the world like look what I did,mommy, and then expect to get a
reward.
Right, because it's not goingto happen If everybody else is
going to the same water fountainknown as Chachi, pt or Grok or
(27:19):
Llama or whatever.
Gemma, gemma, if you try toreplace yourself with AI, you're
probably going to be able to doit, and then you will have
absolutely no value to anyone.
We need to start looking at AIas a way to amplify our voice
(27:41):
and accelerate our ability toget the stuff done that we're
supposed to do, stuff done thatwe're supposed to do, not to
replace ourselves, so that we'regoing to try and live Tim
Ferriss's book with the you know, not the five hour work week,
but the five minute work week.
Oh, I can set up some agents andthen I'll sell agents and just
all this BS you see on YouTubeabout you know how to make
(28:04):
$5,963 a day.
Copy me.
It's all.
Can I say the BS word, or wouldyou prefer I didn't?
It's all bullshit, jackie.
It's not true, because if thosedudes were all making $10,000 a
day with AI, they wouldn't bemaking some janky video on
YouTube to teach you how to make$10,000 a day using AI.
(28:27):
They just wouldn't.
Jackie Pelegrin (28:29):
They say, if it's too good to be true, it
usually is.
Jim Edwards (28:32):
Well and okay.
From another standpoint, if youreplace yourself with AI, what
are you going to do?
You can only play so much Xbox.
You can only eat so many Oreos.
You can only look at so muchidiotic stuff on Facebook or
social media.
At some point, where's yourlife going to have any meaning
(28:54):
whatsoever?
Jackie Pelegrin (28:55):
There's no purpose anymore.
Yeah.
Jim Edwards (28:57):
Right Now.
That doesn't mean I can't useAI to help me.
Just put together the stuffthat I need to put together to
amplify my voice or to share mymessage.
I do it all the time, I do itevery day, but it's an
accelerant it's.
You know, is it more noble tocut down a cheat tree with an ax
(29:20):
, or, if you can get a chainsaw,and cut that puppy down, limb
it up, log it real quick and getthe same job done in 15 minutes
as opposed to three hours?
Is it more noble to type it upat a typewriter or to know how
to feed in your stuff into AI tobe able to then have it spit
back out, your stuff and thenyou take it, curate it and then
(29:44):
you do something with it?
Right, yeah, and I think that'sthere's really.
There's a fork in the road thatmost people have already taken
who are using AI.
They've either decidedinstinctively hey, you know what
I need to use this just toaccelerate my message, like what
we were talking about in thepre-interview that you, you know
, you're taking your podcaststuff and you're taking some
(30:06):
things that you've done andyou're having AI help you turn
it into a book.
You didn't say to me hey, jim,I found a prompt on Facebook
that I can give to ChatGPT andit wrote a book for me.
That's not what you said.
You used it to help you get itdone faster.
The other fork is literallyoblivion.
(30:26):
It's literally oblivion thatyou are going to try and replace
yourself with this thing, andso that's just dumb.
So what Larry's doing?
Back to Larry.
Okay, now we're back from thatside trip.
Jackie Pelegrin (30:41):
Yeah, I love this story, Larry chose to
shortcut the process.
Jim Edwards (30:45):
Instead of being like me with my first book,
where it took me four years towrite my first book.
My most recent book took mefive days, and it's still.
My book is just faster, andthat's so.
Anybody who is using AI toamplify and accelerate the work
that they are supposed to bedoing is being successful.
Jackie Pelegrin (31:09):
Absolutely.
Jim Edwards (31:10):
Whether they're using our tools or not.
Jackie Pelegrin (31:13):
Yeah, like I mentioned, I do it with my
podcast now and it's it's spedup my work exponentially to be
able to just say hey, can yougive me ideas for some episode?
You know ideas and things likethat, and then I have it, helped
me write an outline, and then Ifill in all the details and of
course I check the work becauseit hallucinates, we know that.
(31:35):
So it doesn't get thingscorrect.
So that's why I tell mystudents to don't take it for
what it is, just use it as atool.
Jim Edwards (31:44):
I don't think it hallucinates.
I think it's stoned out of itsgourd, probably Sometimes.
But the way I visualize it andy'all can't see this.
But I want you to envision abattery, okay, and that battery
has a certain amount of juice init and let's say it's
represented by some red lines.
So you got like 10 red lines ofjuice.
(32:06):
And in the past, if you wantedto, let's just say, write an
article, so when I was writingmy syndicated newspaper article,
I would literally take fourhours on a Sunday to write this
thing.
And so you've got to create theidea.
Then you got to do the outline,then you got to do the first
draft, then you got kind ofmassage it and work it and come
(32:30):
up with a second draft.
Well, as you're going throughthat whole thing to try and get
to the final draft, you'relosing more and more and more
and more of that energy andyou're depleting the battery
until there's not that much leftRight.
Well, now, if you're using AI,is it cheating to have AI help
(32:51):
you come up with 10 differentideas for this week's article?
In my opinion, no, I don'tthink so.
I don't think so If I can getmy ideas in about two minutes to
choose from, as opposed tothinking about it for 20 minutes
.
I've saved a whole bunch oftime, energy and effort,
psychically, energetically,otherwise, if I can say, hey,
(33:13):
these are the five things I wantto talk about, or give me some
ideas, some things to talk about.
Okay, those are five things Iwant to talk about.
Now let's come up with anoutline, okay.
So now I want to talk aboutthis and this and this and this,
and maybe even I dictate itinto the AI.
So I just start talking out thepoints and then I tell it hey,
(33:33):
you know what I've talked for awhile, jackie, I know it's hard
to believe, but I don't have anyproblem talking for as long as
someone will listen.
But I just talk it out and thentell it hey, now what I want
you to do is clean this up.
I just talk it out and thentell it hey, now what I want you
to do is clean this up.
It's a transcript, make itsound like it was written in a
(33:54):
friendly, you know whateverstyle.
Well, now AI can take mythoughts and turn my thoughts
into the draft of that blog postor that article.
It's all my stuff.
Just AI is accelerating theprocess and then it hands it to
me.
I'm like, yeah, that soundspretty much like me.
Now I'm just going to gothrough and do a quick edit.
(34:14):
Well, hey, instead of burningout nine and a half of my 10
bars, I've only used up five.
So now I have still psychicother energy and time left over
to do the most important thing.
Especially when we're talkingabout creating content or sales
copy, I have time and energy togo promote it.
(34:38):
Because, see, here's theproblem, jackie, we have been
trained especially peopleliberal, that kind of thing.
As soon as I can hold it up andsay here it is, it's done, give
me my A, I'm finished.
But in the world of contentcreation, content marketing,
(35:01):
sales copy, getting that thingdone is just the beginning,
right?
Because if you make it anddon't promote it, you might as
well have just been on the umthe couch playing Xbox, eating
fudge rounds, because you're notgoing to get any good result
from it.
Jackie Pelegrin (35:20):
It's just going to collect dust Right and just
sit on a shelf.
Jim Edwards (35:24):
Not even that.
It's just going to collect upelectron dust.
Yeah, exactly If it's a neatyeah that we all are going to
have to make.
We need to shift from thinkingthat being a creator is what we
(35:45):
want to be and we need to makethe mental shift from creator to
curator.
I love that it has elements ofcreator.
We cause the thing that we wantto have to be created by using
the tools, and then we have tobe a curator.
(36:07):
So, instead of spending 90% ofthe time coming up with the
thing, spend 30% of your timecoming up with the thing and
then 70% of your time makingsure it's good and getting it
out there right.
Jackie Pelegrin (36:19):
That's the difference between the creator
mindset and the curator mindsetit's a complete mind shift now,
yeah, we're turning it on itshead right but but you can't.
Jim Edwards (36:31):
Nobody rewards just .
You know, I could start sendingall my stuff to jackie and be
like hey, can I have an?
A pro professor, can I have an?
A?
She's like yeah, I have an a.
She's like yeah, here's thename she typed.
She typed an a in the Gmailback and it's like thanks, I
can't eat it.
I mean it can't spend it.
But sure, here's your age, Jim,you can start selling a's for
like a hundred bucks.
(36:51):
I don't want to get you introuble, but I mean.
Jackie Pelegrin (37:02):
Well, it's like with the tests with students
that I could search for classesthat I help with GCU, and all of
a sudden you type in the titleof the course or the course code
and you find the quizzes online, and so it's a constant
challenge of that.
And so, yeah, it's like, yeah,quizzes have value, but if
people can just sell them on theinternet then, yeah, it takes
away from that.
Jim Edwards (37:22):
So yep, I think it's all going to.
You know how are you going tosolve it?
It's, it's all going to have togo back to blue book, yeah, and
everybody's going to have tosit there with their fat little
pen and fill the thing out, andyou're going to have to wand
them, like at the airport, forany kind of smart device, like
you know.
(37:42):
Okay, give me your earbuds,take your watch off.
You're going to have to inspecttheir glasses to make sure they
don't have the heads up displaythat they're able to murmur to
the thing to show it?
yeah, and the problem is, isthat kids these days Jackie, my
grandson's heading to VMI thisFriday, so he's starting as a
(38:02):
freshman you can't cheatyourself.
In other words, if you couldfind the tests online, sure,
look at them.
If you could find, you know.
But ultimately, the wholepurpose here of education, the
whole purpose of contentcreation or right, is for you to
grow as a person, for you toit's, it's great you can go find
(38:26):
the answer.
But if you don't know, if youhaven't developed that muscle to
be able to create the answer,to create the thing, or to know
if it's right or not, it doesn'teven.
You don't even have to be theone who knows how to create the
answer.
You need to know how to knowwhether it's correct or it's any
good.
That's the ultimate skill wherewe're trying to get these
(38:48):
people and kids and adults andeverybody to.
Now.
I don't care how you got theanswer anymore, I really don't,
as long as you know how theanswer is created and whether
the end product is any good ornot.
Jackie Pelegrin (39:01):
Exactly.
Yeah, that's so true.
Yeah, because if we so manyinstructors today they want to
police AI, and I know someinstructors at GCU that are just
like no, hands off.
And I'm like, yeah, but if youtell them no, they can't use it
while they're in school, andwhile you can teach them to use
it ethically, then when they getin the workforce, they're going
(39:23):
to just want to still cheat,right, and so teaching them how
to use it, how to haveboundaries around it while
they're in school and say, hey,you know what, if you cheat and
with your paper, you're doingyourself a disservice and you're
doing everybody else thatyou're you're wanting to serve a
disservice in the future.
Yeah, so it's very interestinghow I have I've shifted the
(39:44):
mindset with.
My students are like can I useit?
And I'm like, yes, you can useit, but just know how to use it
ethically and know that it's atool and it's not replacing us.
Yeah, hopefully that fear goesaway, because so many people are
like is my job going to go away?
And I'm like, no, I don't thinkso.
I think it's just this is a forme, it's a virtual assistant,
it's a way to like you displayedso well and talked about you
(40:08):
know.
So it's great, I love it.
So, as we kind of cap this off,what are some tips and advice
you can share with those who arecurrently in the master's
program that I teach for ininstructional design at Grand
Canyon University?
Jim Edwards (40:22):
So I would just say that what you are learning
about teaching people how tolearn and structuring things so
people will learn is going to bemore important moving forward
than ever, because anybody cango to now ChatGPT or Google or
(40:42):
whoever's version of a largelanguage model, and I call it
data versus soul Data, I see asan acronym.
You go to GPT and it gives youdata, which stands for default
answers to anything.
Anybody can go get a defaultanswer.
That just sounds about goodenough.
It's Wikipedia level.
(41:03):
But what is really going tomake a difference and make
people pay attention to you andreally want to be a part of what
you're doing is what we referto as soul content, and soul
content is again an acronym forstories, observations, unique
perspective and lessons learned.
In the end, if you want peopleto pay attention to what you're
(41:25):
teaching them, you got to beable to tell a story to make it
relevant.
You got to be able to give thema unique perspective on the
data in order to make itinteresting.
You've got to be able to shareobservations that only can come
from experience, that again aregoing to dimensionalize that
(41:46):
data, and then lessons learned,the ultimate thing of I've been
there.
I've done that I got thet-shirt.
Here's what's happened andhere's what you can learn from
it.
And, interestingly enough, if Iuse the example of if I tell you
the story of the very firstbook I ever sold online, back
before the turn of the centuryliterally, and now this century
(42:11):
is a quarter of a century past,which really makes me feel old
yeah, me too.
But if I tell you about theshock when I saw, oh my God,
there's an order here.
And then when I realized I hadno way to process the credit
card payment because I didn'tthink anybody was ever going to
(42:32):
buy it.
And then I called my aunt atthe Williamsburg Outlet Mall and
asked her if I could process mycredit card orders through her
craft mall and how.
She said sure.
And then I had to explain tothis guy somewhere that bought
this book why his credit carddetails were going to reflect
country treasures instead ofselling your home alone the book
(42:55):
.
And all through that I realizedif I could get one person to
buy from me, I could get athousand people to buy from me
and it was going to change mylife.
And if I tell you that story,and then I say, by the way, here
are five tips on how to makeyour very first book sale.
Do you care if ChatGPT wrotethose five tips?
(43:20):
No, I don't know, because thatstory got you so hooked.
Anything else I do slides rightunder your anti GPT radar.
You don't care, because I'msharing a piece of my soul with
you.
Yeah, and that is going to beone of the most important things
(43:41):
that anyone who is an education, an educator, an educational
design person or anybody who'sputting together anything to
teach anybody anything, youbetter have some soul up front
to give some context to thestuff on the back end.
That it doesn't matter whocreated it, because it's all
just data, right?
Jackie Pelegrin (44:02):
I love that.
That's great advice because,yeah, especially now in this
data-driven world that we're in,right, yeah, we have to have
that human experience.
We can't lose that humanexperience and that soul that's
so important.
Absolutely Right, a hundredpercent, yeah Well, thank you,
Jim, for your time and yourexpertise.
I appreciate it.
I'd love to have you back onthe show and we can talk about
(44:25):
some other topics.
Yeah, that'd be fun.
Once I get into some of thesethings and we start talking,
it's like, oh, we could expandupon this and there's so many
different great things that wecan delve into a little bit more
, so I'd love to do thatsometime.
Jim Edwards (44:38):
I'd be happy to.
Jackie Pelegrin (44:38):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you, jim, appreciate it.
Thank you for taking some timeto listen to this podcast
episode today.
Your support means the world tome.
If you'd like to help keep thepodcast going, you can share it
with a friend or colleague,leave a heartfelt review or
offer a monetary contribution.
Every act of support, big orsmall, makes a difference and
(45:02):
I'm truly thankful for you.
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