Solving Dyslexia: A Revolutionary Approach with Russell Van Brocklen

Episode Transcript
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Jackie Pelegrin (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Designing with
Love podcast.
I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you
information, tips and tricks asan instructional designer.
Hello, GCU students, alumni andfellow educators, welcome to
episode 45 of the Designing withLove podcast.
Today I have the pleasure ofinterviewing Russell Van

(00:23):
Brocklin, who is the dyslexicprofessor.
Welcome, russell.

Russell Van Brocklen (00:28):
Thanks for having me.

Yes, thank you for coming.
I appreciate it.
You have such insight, and soI'm really looking forward to
our interview today.
So can you tell us a little bitabout yourself and what you do
as the dyslexic professor?

Well, as I tell people I solve dyslexia,
and a lot of them look at me andthey roll their eyes like how
can you do that?
It's still so complicated.
Well, I have the worst case ofdyslexia people have ever seen.
People say, well, prove it,Okay.
When I wanted to apply to gradschool, I needed new

(01:01):
documentation and that requireda senior psychologist to do the
standard test.
Problem was none were availablethere, just so happened to be
one 400 feet from the southcampus of SUNY Center at Buffalo
.
Her name was Dr Halichka.
What I failed to grasp at thetime was that she was one of the

(01:23):
two SUNY State University ofNew York Distinguished
Professors in Psychology inWestern New York at the time.
So that's SUNY's highest rank.
So I went and she gave me thetesting and half of it, and then
she had a teacher, a special edhigh school person who does
that to the other half, and whatthey found is my base reading

(01:45):
and writing skills was at firstgrade.
So then I decided to go to lawschool.
I wanted to audit two classesto see if I could do it.
Going into law school in thefirst grade reading and writing
skill, even to audit two classesyeah, that was kind of
ambitious.
So I walk into property.
I'm sorry, I walk into acontract.
It's my second day.

(02:05):
It's Professor Warner.
He's a dyslexic professor and Iwent specifically to that
university to see him.
Professor Warner called on methe second class in contracts
and are you familiar with theSocratic method in law school?

Yes, yes, I was actually going to go to law
school myself at one time, soyeah, and then I decided to go a
different direction and get anMBA and yeah, the rest is
history.

So what?
Just so your audience knows whatthey do, is they?
If you don't know the answer?
They keep asking you questionsto purposely embarrass you, to
train you as fast as possible toargue any point anywhere,
anytime.
Train you as fast as possibleto argue any point anywhere,
anytime.
So he calls on me and theneverything changed.
Everything slowed down.
I knew exactly where he wasgoing, four or five questions

(02:52):
ahead of time.
He knew where I was going.
We battled together for 15minutes.
He said at the end Russell, youcouldn't be any more correct, I
have to move on to the nextcase for reason of time.
Everybody looked at me in aweand fear because they're like
they can't do that.
After the first semester Ididn't keep going because, well,

(03:15):
I couldn't keep up with thelegal research and writing.
The ones who I kept in contactwith, who graduated, said even
when they graduated, theycouldn't come anywhere close to
that.
Then, a few weeks later, Istarted taking tests I'm sorry,
little quizzes in property.
Now what they do in law schoolis they try to fool you.
So you're supposed to read itcarefully.
Then you're supposed to thinkfor three to five minutes and
then answer the question.

(03:36):
I would read it very slowly.
Then I wouldn't take three tofive minutes, I didn't even take
three to five seconds Within asecond or two.
I just marked it down.
And then every time I gotperfect hundreds first one every
time to turn in the quiz.
I could now read.
So I wanted to show that toeverybody else, but I had a lot

(04:01):
more research to do.
It took years longer.
That was the fall of 97.
It wasn't until the fall of2001 when I was finally sent to
explain this to Connected toCurrent Research.
And how that happened is I wentto the New York State Senate
and I said I want you to pay formy research, and at the time,

(04:23):
the majority leader of theSenate his name was Senator Joe
Bruno was the majority leader.
He was my representative.
So he said go over to theeducation department.
So I went over there.
I said, yeah, joe Bruno sent me.
Well, they took me seriously,but they wanted to get rid of me
.
So what they did is they saidwe want a SUNY, distinguished
professor in psychology tosupport this.

(04:44):
And he said we want a SUNY,distinguished professor in
psychology to support this.
And he said, yeah, it's comingout of Buffalo.
Okay, so I go out there there'stwo.
One is Dr Hawichka, and shesaid, yeah, she would do it.
So the state paid for theevaluation.
20 hours over three days.
The smartest woman I've ever metbeat the living daylights out
of me with questions to makesure this was real.

(05:04):
At the end she said it was afive-page report.
She said my brain, her thing,divided in five areas.
Mine was severely abnormal inall five and she said what
happened is that I could go fromfirst grade to grad level or
above or above average gradlevel, and back down again and

(05:25):
back up again.
And that happened because I wasmoving from a part of my brain
that wasn't working to a part ofmy brain that was working.
So at that point I needed to goover and to connect it with
current research, and that wasonly one real choice.
Professor James Collins, authorof Strategies for Struggling
Writers.

(05:46):
He got over a million dollarsfrom federal grants and I went
in and I started going throughhis book.
I said this is exactly right.
So at that point people sayit's going to take me years to
get his approval.
I did in less than two weeks.
Then I entered auniversity-wide competition, got

(06:07):
$15,000, and we tested theprogram out on our first student
.
Her name was Michaela, I canuse her name.
She went from eighth gradewriting.
On a pre-test.
There was a zero on the GRE.
We used the graduate recordsexam writing assessment for
these kids.
That's the test for going intograd school.

Right.

So she scored in the zero percentile.
She was the smartest, mostmotivated student of her class
who's dyslexic?
And then after we worked withher for about five months she
ended up scoring in about the50th percentile.
Spelling and grammar was cleanat the graduate level, right.
We worked with another studentand then at that point the

(06:48):
Senate said we will fund thisfor multiple years.
But they sent the check toAverill Park Central School
District.
They ran.
It Took me less than four hoursto train their best teacher.
Her name was Susan Ford andagain I want everybody to know I
kind of cheated.
We picked only the mostmotivated, the most intelligent,
excellent family support,college bound.

(07:10):
We wanted to see what we coulddo with the best and brightest
amongst that generation and wehad their best teacher.
So what happened?
One class period a day for theschool year.
They all went through.
It Cost the state less than$900.
They went from the zeropercentile to the 30th to 50th
percentile, or six percentile toabout the 70th.

(07:33):
They all went on to college.
They all graduated, noaccommodations, 2.5 to 3.6 GPA
under 900 a student Wow, yes.
2.5 to 3.6 GPA Under 900 astudent.
Wow, yes, okay.
No other program ever workedlike that.
I presented the results in NewYork City in 2006.
I thought I was done.

(07:53):
I thought I did somethingamazing.
I was wrong.
What I was asked was whathappens if we apply this to
typical students?
And I would say it would be anabject failure, because typical
students can't take GRE,throwing graduate level stuff at
them.
They just can't take it.

(08:15):
So I said, okay, two things.
Number one, I had to move thisover so that everybody can use
it.
And number two, the professorscame to me and said I don't care
about your results in the GRE.
You got the 70th percentile, sowhat, we can work with that.

(08:37):
We're used to the 95thpercentile, we don't care.
And I was like what do you want?
And they said they wanted thecraft of research.
What's a craft of research?
It's a book that came out fromthe University of Chicago in

(08:58):
1995 because their PhD studentsdidn't know how to write
advanced research papers.
It's like, okay, in its currentversion, it's down to the most
elite high school studentsbefore they even attempt it.
And, as you'll see as weprogress, I dropped it to fourth
grade.

Wow.

Amazing.
So what is the craft ofresearch?
It's based on three areascontext, problem and solution.
Context get everybody on thesame page, state the problem and
then come up with a solution.
And if your solution doesn'tgive the reader something
substantially new, they don'tlearn something substantive.

(09:38):
Then they say don't write thepaper, which pretty much
eliminates virtually every paperwritten in high school and
college and probably even a lotof graduate programs across the
country.
That's how high the standard is.
Okay.
But first thing what I had todo was to come up with a new
model to work with dyslexic kids.

(09:59):
If you're going to go and say DrOrton, who's the Einstein, the
Copernicus?
To go and say Dr Orton, who'sthe Einstein, the Copernicus?
He is the top guy in the fieldof dyslexia.
He passed away in 1948.
And this is what all thewealthy schools use.
If you're going to say he'swrong, you have to use the best
science.
I'm going to use this book,which is from Yale, dr Sally

(10:22):
Shaywitz.
What she did is she did brainscans.
So now we know what's actuallygoing on.
So what I'm going to point tois I'm going to turn to this
edition, which is page 78.

And that's overcoming dyslexia.
Yep, there's the brain, yep.

Okay, now do you see, in the back part of
the brain, I'm not going to usethe word non-impaired, I'm going
to use the word non-impaired,I'm going to use the word gen ed
student.
So do you see, in the back part, the gen ed brain has a lot of
neuroactivity and the dyslexicbrain is virtually zero.
Yes, If you look at it from adifferent angle there's a little
bit, but you see how the frontpart's about two and a half
times over active.

Yep.

Okay.
So I looked at that and saidlet's draw a simple analogy.
I want you to imagine we haveArnold Schwarzenegger at 16.
He never weightlifted.
And then we have the proverbial98-pound weakling and we put
them on a weight trainingprogram.
Who's going to develop faster?

Probably Arnold Schwarzenegger.

His body is predisposed genetically to
accelerate much more than a98-pound weakling.
Okay, so I looked at that and,just using that as an analogy,
the front part of the brain isabout two and a half times
overactive.
Why don't we use that?
So what I'm about to do is I'mreally going to oversimplify
really complex neuroscience sothat we can draw some learning

(11:44):
points from it.
Complex neuroscience so that wecan draw some learning points
from it.
So what we're going to do isthe front part of the brain
deals with articulation first,followed by word analysis.
That's what I did with the GREOkay, Articulated first and a
little bit of word analysis.
So, to make this available toeverybody, I flipped it Word
analysis first, flip it Wordanalysis first, followed by

(12:09):
articulation.
But I found that that was stepthree of the model, Because if
you're going to work withtypical dyslexic students and
I'm also going to throw in ADDand ADHD and mild dyslexia so
the model is ADD, ADHD, milddyslexia.
So the model is ADD, ADHD, milddyslexia.
Next level, severe dyslexia.
Final level, severe dyslexiawith a genius student who's

(12:31):
highly motivated.
So that's the three levels.
Okay, All right, Because at thefirst level ADD, ADHD and mild
dyslexia the treatment's prettymuch the same, All right.
So when we're looking at that,have you ever worked with ADHD
students before Ever?

No, I've just I've had friends that have been
in high school and, yeah, highschool grade school that were,
that were dyslexic, yeah.

What you're going to.
Does it make sense that mostteachers say I can't get this
kid to concentrate on anything?

Yes, yeah, I would hear that quite a bit from
the teachers.

Yeah, Okay , first step of the model we are
going to permanently get rid ofthat and make these kids
hyper-focused, and where theywill work for hours on an
academic task.
Are you ready for the bigsecret?

Yes, absolutely .

Their speciality, their interest,
their area of extreme interestand ability.
So what I do is I'll say it's aSaturday morning, you have
nothing that you have to do.
What do you want to do all day?
And that is their speciality.
I have kids who have said theywant to learn about famous
people.

(13:40):
One said she was interested in1970s Ford F-150s, miss people.
One said she was interested in1970s Ford F-150s.
I've had a lot of elementaryschool girls say they want to
learn about Hermione from HarryPotter because she's smart, all
right, whatever it is football,soccer, it doesn't matter.
That's what you're going toteach them.

You tap into that?

Does that make sense?

Mm-hmm, tap into that, you tap into that.

You step outside of that.
The most motivated kid in theworld.
You're down 50%.
Yeah Right, typical student.
You're down 75, 80% and youwonder why you're putting all
these resources in and gettingvery little back.

That makes sense Right.

So next thing, we find their speciality.
I tell them we're going to geta book on that and an audio book
.
By far the most famous, themost popular one that I do, is
Walt Disney.

Walt Disney yeah.

Okay, 1,000 pages 11th, 12th grade.
I give that to 10-year-olds,all right.
So I want you to imagine thishave you ever been to Disney
World?

No, but I've been to Disneyland plenty of
times You've been to Disney.

Okay, have you noticed that they say it's
the most magical place on earth?
Does that make sense?

Yes.

Yeah, it does.
The magic is defined by twouniversal things.
One is 90% of it.
The first one's easy to find.
The second one forget it.
I've had parents with master'sdegrees, phds, lawyers, doctors.
They couldn't figure it out.
I always had to tell them.
Actually, I had their kid tellthem.

(15:14):
You know that second universalthing you're trying to find.
Well, your 13-year-old dyslexicdaughter just told you what it
is.
Did I do my job?

Right yeah you did.

So, once you have those universal themes.
I then had some people go on toDisney to intern and what they
could do is they would say inthis situation, classic Walt
Disney, this is how he probablywould have solved it.
All right, it's that powerful.
Yes, all right.
To give you an example of my Inever saw this before, I will
never see it again.
Her name was Casey, ten yearsold, fifth year, the end of

(15:49):
fifth grade, second gradereading level, crazy about
Theodore Roosevelt.

So I assigned her this oh, theodore
Roosevelt's book, yeah.

That's the first of three.
First of three.
All right, that's the series onhim.
Tenth grade to first yearcollege level, depending who you
ask won the Pulitzer.
All right, so I gave that toCasey and within six months I
said I'll never see this again.
She wanted to learn readingfirst instead of writing.

(16:21):
So I said okay, casey.
Here's a modified version.
She was in her room two tothree hours a night, six, seven
nights a week, most of the dayin the summertime, up there,
going through this simple butpowerful process.
At the end of six months sheknew every word in that book,
the dictionary definition ofevery word.

Wow, my goodness of every word.

Wow, my goodness, okay, every word.
So now she, six months later,she's in middle school.
They're doing silent readingand her classmates are reading
Harry Potter, twilight orwhatever it was at the time and
they came over and they took herbook.
They said what's this?
Well, this is a book I'mreading for an outside reading
program.
None of the kids could get pastthe first paragraph.

(17:07):
They called her mom and theysaid I thought that your
daughter had a reading problem.
She's supposed to be reading atthe second grade level.
She's the best reader in theclass by grade levels.
What's going on?
And her mom asked me what'sgoing on.
I said what do you think she'sbeen doing in her room hours a
night for the past six months?
Normally it takes me at least12, generally 18 to 24 months to

(17:31):
get those results.
All right, casey dropped it tosix months and I worked with her
for 15 minutes a week.

Wow, that's amazing.

Okay, wow so when people say they can't
read.
Well, casey figured it outRight.
So that brings us to our secondpoint.
All right, remember, we startoff with the student's area of
extreme interest, theirspeciality.
So what I noticed, and wheredid I get that from?
I went back and I startedtalking to successful dyslexic

(18:02):
professors both professorsdyslexia major research
universities and they went to atypical school K-12, not the
specialized dyslexic schools andI noticed that there was a
pattern they did horrible Kthrough college a little better
the last two years.
They walked into grad schooltop of their class day one.

(18:23):
So, as you know, when you're ingrad school, you went through
it and they didn't care aboutanything but that specific area.

Right.

Okay, that was a key thing.
Now, second thing that I foundis when they're undergraduate
this is the second point I said,this is weird A lot of them
were STEM science, technology,engineering, math.
They were taking art historyclasses, philosophy classes,
music classes and they had nointerest in those areas.
Right, what is going on?

(18:53):
Does that make any sense to youwhatsoever?

No, especially if they're studying STEM.
Yeah, they shouldn't be takingphilosophy and history.

No, I mean they don't care about
philosophy.

Right.

So what happened is those professors
were teaching not the general tothe specific, but from the
specific to the general.

Okay.

So what I extracted from that for a very
long time is, if you ask thedyslectic this question or ADD
or ADHD, it's one of the threeIn your speciality, do you have
ideas flying around your head atlight speed Key question with
little to no organization?

(19:37):
Again, so in your speciality,do you have ideas flying around
your head at light speed, butwith a little bit or no
organization?
And they say yes or they say no.
Did that happen in the past?
And then they say yes virtually100% of the time.
And I say what we're going todo because I have to get the
kids by it is we're going toforce your brain to organize

(19:58):
itself by using writing as ameasurable output.
So, again, we're going to forceyour brain to organize itself.
And how we're going to judgethat is we're going to see how
well you're doing with writingas a measurable output and you
go okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Now, that's most kids.
Now, if we're going to get downto severe dyslexia and this is

(20:21):
again a minority fingers,keyboard, fingers, keyboard,
keyboard.
The idea is in your head, youwant to write about it, you're
going to type.
Fingers, keyboard, you take.
You take your fingers, you putthem on the keyboard, the idea
flies out your head, leaving youwith an empty brain.
And I ask them if that's them,most will say no.
The ones that say yes,congratulations.

(20:43):
Now you're dealing with severedyslexia.
What's the difference?
The severe dyslexic is going togo deeper generally, much
deeper than mild dyslexia, addor ADHD.
They also take much longer tolearn.
All right, so all the sameprocess, but they're going to
have to practice a lot more.

(21:04):
The repetition will surpriseyou how much you have to get.
You make it very simple andthen you give them the
repetition until they masteredit.
Then you go on to the next step.
The final one gets verydangerous.
I'm just letting people knowabout it.
So if they run across this,they recognize it.

(21:25):
But I don't want them to followand do what I'm telling them,
because if you don't knowexactly what you're doing, it's
something that can get quitementally dangerous.
All right, here's thebackground.
You're dealing with a mostlikely severely dyslexic student
, but somehow they're gettingaround 85, 86.

(21:47):
They're barely making low endhonor roll.
Or they're getting like 82, 83.
They're doing well enough, lowto mid 80s.
People say, oh, they're fine,there's not a problem.

They think they're passing, so no big deal,
right?

Well, they're not just passing Low to
mid 80s.
Even they're like, hey, they'reon the low honor roll they're
doing fine right right typicallytheir brothers and sisters will
be fighting to becomevaledictorians or are
valedictorians academics.
In this, in this house, I meantheir brothers and sisters, they
get a b plus.
It's like the end of the world.
This is horrible right, okay theparents tend to be very

(22:22):
educated, doing veryacademically oriented work, and
what I've noticed with thesekids is and I make sure that
this is a completely privateconversation that parents
literally never know.
I'll say I know your secret andthey freak out what do you mean

(22:42):
?
How do you know?
And I say it started inelementary school, maybe it was
early second grade, probablythird or fourth.
What happened is you had toaccomplish some academic task.
Nobody could help you and ifyou failed it, they were going
to hold you back.
You were going to lose yourfriends especially devastating

(23:05):
for girls at that age.
So what happened is they becameclinically depressed.
They would say things tothemselves like if I don't do
this, my parents won't love meanymore.
My friends will hate me, friendswill hate me and they put so

(23:30):
much pressure on themselves thatin time the answer that they
had to overcome presents itselfand then, over time, by the time
they reach high school it'shappened so many times it's just
like breathing, but they don'twant their family to know.
When I did that original studygroup at Averill Park, I talked
to some of the really, reallyadvanced kids and they're like

(23:52):
yeah, that's us.
How did you know?
Wow, and they didn't wantanybody else to know.
I said well, you think you'rethe only one.
If you're dealing with a hyper,maybe you don't have the kid
tested.
But as a teacher, as aninstructor, you know, sometimes
this student is just an Einstein.
They're brilliant, but youcan't explain it.
Make sense.

Right, yeah, makes sense.

But if you're running into that, okay,
especially if the kid's inelementary school, this is what
they're going through.
What you're going to want to dois to say talk to them in
private, get parental permissionfirst, talk to them in private.
If that's the case, you'regoing to want them to speak to a

(24:34):
qualified mental healthprofessional and not send the
kid through that hell.

There's no reason for it, absolutely.

But for those kids who have built it up,
when I did the GRE course, howdid I get such phenomenal
results?
Well, I kind of what these kidsessentially did were doing PhD
level work.
In elementary school.
I tapped into that.
That's why they accelerated sofast.
There's never been any otherstudy with any type results like

(25:04):
that.
All right, so those are somethings to look at.
And now that's going back tostep two.
So what we do is we startteaching the kids from the
specific to the general, becausenow they've got something to
latch on to and it forces themto go step by step.
If we start from the specificto the general, you start off

(25:28):
with an anchor point.
Then you can force your brainto think linearly for the next
several steps.
And that's the problem withdyslexia.
It's kind of like I'm going touse an analogy of a cold
Dyslexics.
It's not a reading problem, itpresents as a reading problem.
It's kind of like a stuffy nose, the cold medicine you take.

(25:50):
It masks the symptoms, but theproblem is an issue, some things
in your chest.
I go right to the chest.
I go right to what theunderlying issue is.
It's the lack of organization.
So, for example, in theoriginal program, susan Ford
spent almost no time on spellingand grammar, and they went from

(26:13):
horrendous to clean at thegraduate level.
Every last one of them Allright.
So would you like to learn howwe can do that for elementary
school kids?

Yes, that would be great, come on.

Okay.
So typically when I presentevery year at Everyone Reading
in New York City to train NewYork State special ed teachers,
they come into me and I'm goingto rip off one teacher what she
said, her idea.
I'm going to use it.
She said she has in elementaryschool so many dyslexic kids who
are writing, apparentlyrandomly placed, misspelled

(26:47):
words she doesn't know what todo.
So now I'm going to show youhow we're going to get them to
write a basic three-wordsentence to start off with Love
it.
Okay, let's just say some ofthe students you've worked with
that you knew in high school.
I would like you to pick one ofthem, change their name and

(27:09):
tell me is it John Doe or JaneDoe?
Who are we talking about here?

Jane Doe.

Okay, what did Jane really love to do?
What was her speciality?

She loved horses, riding horses, horses,
yeah.

Okay.
So imagine Jane is inelementary school.
She's writing randomly placedmisspelled words, that's what
they appear to be.
So what we're going to do iswe're going to start off with Dr
James Collins' default writingstrategy of copying strategies
for struggling writers, andyou're going to type out hero
plus sign.
What are we talking about Then?

(27:44):
Jane's going to retype that,then she's going to shift from
hero to Jane, jane plus sign.
What are we talking about Then?
Jane plus sign horses.
See how we got there All right.
Now I'm going to ask you somevery specific questions.
If you don't get it exactlyright, if you don't answer them
exactly correct, it's not goingto work.
90% of special ed teachersdon't get, don't answer it,

(28:07):
don't do exactly as I tell them.
Are you ready to follow myinstructions exactly?

Yes.

Okay, here we go.
Here's my question we have Janeplus sign horses.
Here's my question we have Janeplus sign horses.
We need to replace the plussign.
So here's my question Rememberit has to be exactly precise.
Does Jane like or dislikehorses?
Go ahead and replace that witha plus sign.

What's the sentence?

Jane likes horses.
You got it the first time, butnot the second.

Oh, All right.

This is, but not the second.
Oh, all right, this is nowgoing to show you, oh, I see
what I did wrong.
What did you?

do what?
Did you do.
I should have replaced thelikes with the plus Jane, plus
sources, right.

No.

No, nope.

Okay, so we're now going to go over to
the heart of writing problemsfor dyslexia in elementary
school.
All right, I still have youpretty confused now, don't I?

Yeah, because I'm wondering I thought I did it
right and then I was like no, Idid it wrong.

You did it right and then you did it wrong
.

How funny.

Are you nice and confused?
Yeah, yeah, a little bit Okayso I asked you does Jane like or
dislike horses?
You said a little bit okay.
So I asked you does jane likeor dislike horses?
You said like, like.
Then I asked you to put into asentence and you add, you
automatically added the s janelikes horses.
Oh, jane doesn't know how toadd the s oh, okay yeah, so now

(29:34):
it may not seem like a big deal.
Just tell the kid to add the s,j, james dyslexic.
Okay, and this is what I'mgoing to try to drive this home.
Look at the brain image again.

Right.

Look at the brain activity in the back
part of your brain.
It's going nuts.
That's where this is supposedto be.
We got very little going onthere.
So how do we fix this?
Well, orton-gillingham,it'sillingham, the Orton Academy
is two years to becomecertified, $11,000,
not-for-profit.
It's like a master's degree,like your MBA, see, touch, hear

(30:10):
every sentence imaginable and ittakes a while to learn how to
get the kid to add the letter Sand it's complicated, but it
works All right.
We need it a better way.
Here's my presumption the childcan speak proper English.
That's the presumption I had toput in there to make this work.

(30:31):
So what I would do is I'd askJane to read what she wrote out
loud, because I asked her do youlike or dislike?
And the answer is like that'swhat I asked her.
Jane like horses.
How do we get her to add the S?
I asked her to read it out loud.
Does that sound generallycorrect?
No, so what does Jane?

(30:52):
Do I tell her to fix it?
Jane likes horses.
Right Now we practice that 20times A list of 10 likes and 10.
Dislikes.
Now, if you don't like thenegatives, you can do 20 likes.
So here's one of the fun thingsthat I like to do.
Sometimes the kid just doesn'twant to do the work.

(31:13):
Sound familiar.

Yes, Even in graduate school they don't want
to do the work.
Yeah.

So one of my kids I'm just going to use
John or Jane Doe to protect hisidentity.
He was the elder brother.
He had a younger sister, but hewas the older brother, so he
was in charge when he wouldn'tdo his work.
The one thing he hated aboveall others was his younger
sister considerably youngertelling him what to do.

(31:39):
So he, I said did you do yourhomework?
No, did your mom or dad giveyou permission not to do it?
No, why didn't you do it?
I didn't feel like it.
I said okay, remember what Isaid was going to happen.
And he goes my younger sister'sgoing to mess up my room and
tell me how to clean it.
So that's what happened.
And then his parents said youknow what, john, I don't think

(32:04):
you learned your lesson.
They had her do it again.
So you messed it up and tellinghim exactly how to clean it up.
And he came back and said I amnever going to miss homework
again.
Or a kid oh, it works great.
Or a kid says I hate cleaningthe cat pan, it's disgusting.
They missed their homework.
Mom and dad didn't give thempermission.
What happens when I gotta cleanthe cat pan?

(32:27):
Never had another problem.

Yeah.

So that's why I like dealing with the
negatives.

Right.

I like that.
So what we do is now we havethem practice that.
Now here's remember what I saidabout the spelling and grammar
getting that to be autocorrected.
I can explain the theory here.
First thing that we do is wetell them not to put a period
down no period.

(32:57):
They can ask any question.
Until as long as the period'snot there.
They can ask any question likedid I spell horses right?
And you can say no, you didn't.
So what they'll then do isthey'll just have to retype
horses.
Okay.
But once they put the perioddown, if there's a spelling
mistake or a major and I meanmajor grammatical mistake, don't
do the medium or the littlestuff, because you'll just crash

(33:21):
the kid out of frustration.
All right.
But major grammar mistakes,they have that and they drop the
period.
Now they have to retype ituntil they get it correct.

Okay, that makes sense, okay yeah.

So what happens?
Here's what I tell them.
This is the least offensiveword I've ever found.
You made a silly mistake or asilly error, one of those two
teacher's parent's choice, allright.
So again, silly mistake orsilly error.
So they're like you got toretype it, okay.
So then they keep making thesame mistake.
So then they hyper-focus I'mnot going to make that mistake.

(33:55):
And they make it again Seventimes down.
They're still making thatmistake.
And then they truly hyper-focus.
You can see sweat coming downtheir face sometimes and
eventually they get it right.
And when they're hyper-focusingI'm not going to make that

(34:16):
mistake that's where the magichappens.
That's where a lot of thisself-corrects.

Right, that makes sense.

Yeah, okay .
So we do that for reason.
I call it wheelchair crutcheswalking.
If you broke your leg, youstart off typing everything.
They copy it.
All right, maybe you do 20 ofthose, and then what you do is
you say I'm not going to copy itanymore, you have to do it
yourself, and we go through whatwe just discussed.

(34:41):
All right, once they run out ofthings that they like or
dislike, I have them go to theirbook.
So, like, for example, withCasey, what does Theodore
Roosevelt like or dislike?
What I tell them to do isthey're going to read the book,
while listening to it and tryingto answer a specific question
what does the hero like?

(35:01):
What is the hero dislike?
The craziness, thedisorganization in their head
drops about 70 to 80% at thatpoint.

Wow.

Okay, and yes, casey did this book.
We were on this book with herfor three years.

Three years Until she could learn to write.

Yes, Context problem solution for
three years, All right.
At the end of eighth grade, shewas ready to go into college.
Wow, my goodness.
Last I spoke to her she saidthat she was in college and she
was applying for her big girljob.
I don't know what that is, butthat's what I spoke to her.

I like that Big girl job.
That's great yeah.

I love that.
So then what we do is, once weget done with those 20, you got
them right.
If they don't get them right,keep going back.
You have to.
You do not go on to the nextstep until it's mastered.
Then we'll say reason one andthey'll type it out.
I tend to have that doneseparately.
We put them together Sarahlikes swimming because it's fun

(35:59):
Then we do another 20, reasonone and reason two, and then
it's the Oxford comma.
Are you a one comma person or atwo comma person?

One comma For three reasons.

Okay, whatever that is, usually it's
the mom who teaches this.
Okay, whatever it is.
Is this a one comma kid or twocomma kid?
Put it in their IEP.
It's in stone forever.
All right, then we have reasonone, reason two and reason three
.
Sarah likes swimming becauseit's fun, she likes the water

(36:30):
and she likes being with herfriends.
That may not sound like a lot,but we took a kid who was doing
randomly placed misspelled wordsand now they're writing at the
end of second or beginning thirdgrade level.
Sometimes I get that done in100 sentences, sometimes I go to
four or 500 sentences, butthat's it.
Here's the other thing.
When you're doingOrton-Gillingham, the older you

(36:52):
are, the longer it takes,because you have to go back and
rerun everything else plus whatyou're supposed to be learning
now With what I'm teaching.
The older you are, the fasteryou pick it up.

So it's just the opposite of what you would
think it would be Wow.

Exactly and then, once we get done with
the basic sentences, weeventually the next thing I do
is I show students how to readusing what I like to call a
half-circle hero,universal-themed villain, and
then, for context, I show themhow to do a basic.
I focus on three-bodyparagraphs because generally

(37:29):
sometimes when I present, theywant to know how do I do the
thesis and the conclusion.
Most teachers say you know whatI can do a thesis statement and
conclusion.
You get the three-bodyparagraphs, I can do the rest.
So I focus on the three body.
So in context, we focus on that, then we focus on a more
evolved way for doing theproblem and then for the
solution.

(37:51):
I want you to imagine this anEnglish teacher teaching AP in
advanced placement high schoolkids for 20 years on Shakespeare
, all right, and they get thesame papers that have been
written for the past 50, past100 years.
Smart kids write the same stuffover and over again, generation
to generation.
How often do you think ateacher teaching Shakespeare for

(38:13):
AP English kids for 20 years?
How often does a student writethem a paper where they actually
learned something?

Probably not very often.
No student write them a paperwhere they actually learned
something?

Probably not very often.
No, I can show you, so, as theydo, that they learn how every
paper to teach you learnsomething substantive every time
.

That's a, that's breakthrough, right yeah.

You want that.
That's called the craft ofresearch.
I just found a way to simplifycontext.
For example, from advancedmiddle school because that's
we're in the fifth edition nowstarted off at the PhD level.
I dropped that to fourth grade,to nine-year-olds Okay, and
here's why that is important.
I'm starting to see it now.
What's going on?

(38:54):
And I'm not looking at thepolitics from one party or the
other.
This is just what's going on,at the politics from one party
or the other.
This is just what's going on.
We're doing this in the summerof 2025.
Tariffs are causing companiesto say there's a lot of
uncertainty, so we're notinvesting until we get the
certainty back.
Step two is they're also seeinghow much can we get away with

(39:18):
the current artificialintelligence and a lot of kids
that I'm seeing that are out ofcollege this year million
students finding getting a jobreally difficult.
The CEO of Anthropic, one ofthe top AI firms out there, has
said he thinks in the next fiveyears, up to half of entry-level

(39:40):
white-collar jobs are going todisappear.
Wow, okay.
So what I'm saying is, if youknow the craft of research, all
right.
You don't need to every timethere's a new AI model.
You don't need to relearnprompt engineering.

Right.

You're trained concept problem solution
Okay, you're trained how to dothat.
I've had students that I'veworked with.
I call it prompt engineeringyour brain.
They would finish up andgraduate and they'd be given
this job.
They're like I have to nowproduce something where they
learn something.

(40:15):
I think I'll lose my job andI'm like you've been trained in
this.
Go back to the AI, put down thecontext.
They come back oh, that washard.
Yeah, you got it done.
Now go do the problem, now godo the solution.
And they are complaining left,right and down the center.
I said I trained you in thisyears ago.
Then they turn in their paper.

(40:37):
Then their boss goes I can usethis.
And the ones that aren'twriting at the craft of research
standard.
They're like no, I don't needthis, I don't need this, I don't
need this.
Guess who kept their job.

The ones that did the research right.

Who can write at the craft of research
level.
Just to show you how powerfulthis is.
Right.
She doesn't want me to use hername so I'm just going to call
her Jane.
Jane went on my advice to thisspecific university to take this
specific professor.
So I had her look at herundergrad just like a PhD.
People would go from Harvardundergrad to CUNY because what

(41:14):
they want to study that's wherethe professor was.
So she goes into his class andafter the first class she goes
up to him and says I'm reallynot that good with the craft of
research.
Can we set up an office hour soI can discuss, you can tell me
what I need to do so I canactually write a good paper?
So they do that.
He calls me.
He said what is a collegefreshman doing with the craft of

(41:38):
research?
I can't get my PhD students todo this.
I said well, she started doingit in seventh grade.
We're a lot more efficient now.
And he said what I said well,she's pretty good.
Here's where she's good at,here's where the problems are,
but this is where she needs yourhelp.
He's just completely confused.
I said there are advantages tobeing dyslexic.

(41:59):
So after she turned in herpaper, he really enjoyed working
with her.
He learned something actuallylearned something from an
undergrad.
He said this is next toimpossible.
And then he started workingwith her.
He wanted to work with herbecause of her ideas and her
writing skills.
Not wanting to not haveanything to do with her because

(42:23):
of her writing skills, weflipped it.

Right Wow.

Turn that negative into a positive.

Yeah, turn that negative into a positive yeah
Wow.

So think about what you do with what you
teach.
Instructional design isincredibly important.
I can recall I'm working withthese elementary school kids and
they're coming home and they'rein fifth grade and they're
crying I can't do this, I'mstupid.
I said let me look at it.
I said I can't do this.

(42:54):
I've been to grad school.
Don't call yourself stupid, Ican't do this.
Their parents have grad degrees.
They can't understand it.
Okay, and this got this crying10-year-old.
So what you're doing, theexperimental design, is so
important.
What I'm just trying to helppeople understand is when you're
dealing with dyslexia, themodel that I just gave you their

(43:17):
speciality, their own book.
Find their audio book that theylike and then you can get a
real.
Then you can follow with thereal book in their intervention
period.
Just use that book.
Or, if you need to move on,start off at harry potter and
two or three books later doingthis and do with that yeah okay
and specific to the general wordanalysis followed by

(43:38):
articulation, you follow that.
it'll be so much easier.

Yeah, and you don't have the students fighting
it.
You know they want to do it.

They're literally in their room doing
things, and if they ever don'twant to do their homework, what
is it that you dislike?
Yeah, works so well.

Yeah, I love it .

Yep, because it motivates them and
and yeah, then they want to doit well, what happens is in the
first lesson I say what do I doif you're not going to do your
work?
And we come to an agreement.
They're like, yeah, I agree tothis.
It's all permission based right.

Yeah, you're not forcing them to do it.
Yeah, Wow, and yeah, they wantto do it more because they're.
Yeah, they're not being forcedto do it, they're, they have
that interest and you said, likeyou said, you start with that.
It's like their why?
Why am I?
What's the why am I doing this?
Yeah, you get to that becausethey, they want to know.

So, like with Disney, I have them go into
the Magic Kingdom, Main Street,USA.
You've been to Disneyland?
That's Marceline, Missouri.
That's like 3,500 words.
I have them.
I've had fifth graders on those3,500 words for 11 months, but
then they're reading those 3,500words at like the 10th, 11th
grade level.

(44:58):
Then the next section mighttake six months and then we're
down to three and then by thetime they're done with four to
five chapters they're reading athome.
Right At home Not spending$70,000 on a private Orton
school.
Just to show you what thedifference is, there's a school

(45:19):
in Upper East Side calledWindward where the New York
State just had a dyslexia taskforce to redo its K-5 education.
So we met there.
They have a 98% success rate.
Send your kid there in fourthgrade.
Four to five years later theywill send your child back to
their same school and they willbe absolutely prepared.
Costs about $7,500 a year forfour to five years and their

(45:42):
teachers get paid, nothingcompared to public school
teachers.
It's because it's four to one.
Five to one.

Okay, yeah.

Okay, or you could do this and I can have
parents train their kids athome.

Yeah, wow, yeah , you can't compare to that
Absolutely.
Especially when they're at homeright and they're not
distracted with other studentsaround them, they can have that
one-on-one time right.

That makes a difference, moms will say and
not to be sexist, but this wasdata that I got from Facebook,
when they would just give us allthe data we shouldn't have had.
It was over 90%.
Moms, okay, okay, and so itjust happens to generally be
that way.
And moms will say well, I'm notthe best one at this.
I said I know it'd be great ifyou could afford to have a

(46:31):
specialist come in.
I could train your specialistand they can come in and do this
, but that's going to cost.
You know it's for most people.
It's just it's too expensive.

Right, it's out of reach.
Yeah.

It's out of reach.
Or if they go and do it, thenthey're driving, you know, $500
cars and the rest of their kidsget nothing Right.
Yeah, no camps, christmaspresents I mean, I've seen
families do that to send theirkids to special schools.

Right yeah.

But you know.
So I try to make this aseconomically functional as
possible.

Right, because you want to reach all
socioeconomic levels.
You don't want to just have thethe ones that are wealthy and
can can afford it, but you wantto have the the ones that can't
either, and you don't want themto be in a disadvantage.
You want it to be inclusive.
So that's creative and I lovethat because I'm a creative

(47:45):
person.
So whenever I hear somethingthat we do and we flip it on its
head, then that's great.
It's innovative.

Well, let me show you something really
scary.
When you were in grad school,did you ever look around at some
of your peers and say gradschool?

did you ever look around at some of your
peers and say, how the heck didthey get in here?
Yes, oh, most often, because Iwent to University of Phoenix
for my MBA and they requiredlearning teams.
So all of our projects we wouldwork in groups and yeah, I
would say, probably it had to beevery class.
I would say there were like oneor two students that I was like
, how did they get here?
I don't understand how theyeven got a bachelor's degree.

Yeah, so let me kind of explain that to
you very briefly.
This is a book called Post-WarJapanese History.
All right, this first articlewas written by Professor Dower.
Can you go ahead and just goahead and read the title in the
first paragraph?

Okay, peace and Democracy in Two Systems.
I can't read the rest, though.

Can you read that?

A little bit Something about policy and
internal conflict, but it's hardto read the rest of it.

It's hard to read that, yeah, so here's
the thing you could read that.
And then I would ask you it'shard to read that, yeah.
So here's the thing you couldread that.
And then I would ask you,remember, this guy won the
Pulitzer, he won the NationalBook Award.
I'm assuming you have little orno knowledge about post-war
Japanese history, but the guy'sthe top writer in his field.
So you read that firstparagraph and I'm just going to
tell you what happened.
I would ask would you, you know, jackie, what's it about?

(49:22):
And you would tell me Okay,right, you would be shocked at
how many certified readingteachers can't tell me what
happened in that paragraph?
Wow, half the kids at undergradat Harvard can't do that.

(49:47):
According to Professor Dower,10th grade to second year in
college you should absolutely beable to do that, or he gets
very upset.
So this is so important tounderstand.
I'm going to go back to sciencehere, to this picture, right,
all right.
I want you to imagine you'rewhat I call a full brain.
Take that massive overactivityin the front part of the
dyslexic brain.
Move it over to the gen edbrain.
That's you.
Okay, the dyslectics.

(50:08):
I can train to read that easilyenough.
The people in your graduateschool who can't, you're like,
what are they doing here?
They would read that andbecause it's so dense with
information, they go off thetracks.

Right.

Okay, I can tell which students are
going to be the ones who arelike that and which ones are
like you by if they can readthat or not.
I've actually had people inhigh-end consulting companies
try that and they said thepeople that could read that made
excellent employees.
The ones that couldn't, theyhad to let go Right.
And I said, okay, that's what Icall a full brain person.

(50:44):
But the dyslectics, once wetrain them properly, can read
that with ease.
And now you have all thatmassive neuroactivity in the
creative areas.
Right, absolutely Now withartificial intelligence that
could take care of the writingfor them, right, absolutely.
Now, with artificialintelligence that could take

(51:05):
care of the writing for them,all right.
Now you have all these hugeadvantages, especially for
dyslectics who have been througha master's degree.
It's a huge, huge, huge help.
That program I was telling youabout with Professor Collins
Okay, remember, I did that inless than two weeks.
I'm not the only one.
The Selectics excel in gradschool and that's why artificial

(51:27):
intelligence was designed forus.
Few things to think about.

Yeah, absolutely.
I don't think anybody wouldhave thought that that's what it
was designed for, but it makessense.
Absolutely yeah.
And instructional design makessuch a huge difference too.
Absolutely yeah, andinstructional design makes such

(51:54):
a huge difference too.

Like you said, if they don't understand
what it is saying or what, yeah,what's there, it just yeah.
It's not going to reach anybody.
So instructional design is soimportant.
Yes, and what I just showed youthere, if you could go ahead
and read that, you're a fullbrain, you can do instructional
design.
If you can't, you're going tofind doing that, I would say,
near impossible.
And they're saying wait asecond, are you telling me that
dyslectics can be moreproductive than students?

(52:15):
A lot of these kids, like someof them, were even
valedictorians in high school.
I'm sure you've seen thisValedictorian in high school,
4.0 in college.
They get to grad school and dowhat you're teaching and they
could pass any regurgitationtest, but they can't apply it
very well, Right, Absolutely Yep.

(52:38):
There's the test to decide canthey apply it or not.
All right, and I said dyslexiais not a reading program.
It's not a reading program.
I can show dyslexics to readbetter than most gen ed people.
Okay, they're like.
It's just how it presentsitself.
It's a symptom.
It's a lack of organization inthe front part of the brain.

Right, yeah, and I think the reason why I'm
good at instructional design andall those different things is
because I've been very organizedfrom a very young age.
So my room was always organized.
I didn't have clothes on thefloor.
You know, my mom didn't have tocome into my room and say clean
your room.
I actually have, I still havethis door hanger and it says
don't move anything, Don't touchanything.

(53:19):
I like my room this way and Istill have it, and that's from
second grade.
I still have it.
So yeah it just I.
I like things in order, I likethings clean, and I'll say I
probably have OCD in a sense.
So that's probably true, but itjust helps me when I things
aren't disorganized.
So when I'm so much for what youdo Right, exactly, yeah, if it

(53:42):
wasn't for keeping thingsorganized, I wouldn't.
I would just be all over theplace.
It'd be scatterbrained.
So yeah, it really helps.

Let me ask you the first question in your
speciality?

Do you have ideas flying around your head at
light speed but with little tono organization ever in your
life, or is that just no?
I would say no because I havegood tools in place that help me
to keep things organized.
So I use Trello, which is agood project management tool,
but I use that for my podcast,for my teaching and for work,
and I have boards for each thingthat I'm working on.
And when I first started mypodcast, I only had a Word
document with all my ideas ofepisodes that I wanted to do,

(54:25):
yeah, and all my people that Iwanted to interview, and I would
highlight it like yellow meantI needed to get it done, green
meant I got it and I'm thinkingand I did this for nine months,
I think, and I thought, wait aminute, there's got to be a
better way.
And I was like I use Trelloevery day at work, why don't I
use it for that?
And it changed the game bigtime, and so I went from a Word

(54:45):
document to now organized cardsand checklists and everything.

So yeah, it made such a difference.
Oh, and I'm absolutely horribleat all of that.
So what happens is I found thisout is that CEOs that run major
companies who are dyslectic.
They have assistants that arethe most detailed person ever.
My assistant just finished herqualifying exams for her PhD in
education.
Now it's just a big project andwrite-up, but every day she

(55:14):
emails me in the morning.
You have podcasts for this.
Here's your meetings for this.
I was like, oh, thank you.

Wow, she's your lifesaver.
Oh yeah, and I pay herappropriately for this.

I was like oh, thank you Wow.

She's your life saver.

Oh yeah, and I pay her appropriately for
it.
But it just gives you anexample that I made myself
economically valuable enough sothat I can have an assistant.
I run my own business, so I'mable to do that for myself.
All right, and yeah, it's ahuge, huge.

(55:44):
I don't know what I'd dowithout her.
And then I have a backup at her.
Uh, she has a master's degreein teaching English.
So I, I, oh, I have, I havebackups for everything.

Yeah, yeah, and especially if you're like me,
doing multiple things, yeah, ifyou don't have the organization,
because I work full-time as aninstructional designer in higher
education, then I teach classespart-time, run this podcast,
and then I also do consulting onthe side.
So a lot of balls in the air,right, and it's like whoa, it's
a lot.
So I mean, even just with myfull-time job at any one time in

(56:18):
any week, I probably have 60meetings that are on my calendar
and then I have to do projectsand work in between that and
yeah, so it's, how many hours aday are you putting in?
I'm doing the 40 hours a weekwith the full-time job, and then
teaching is about 10 to 15hours a week.
It's not too bad.

(56:38):
If I'm teaching multiple classesit's a little bit more, but I
would say probably about 10hours a week, because I've found
a way to have a good system forgrading and utilize a little
bit of AI with that.
But it's just that first draftand I've got all my different
areas that I've automated, so itmakes it a lot easier.
So, yeah, so it really helps.

(57:00):
And then same thing with thepodcast.
You just AI with that too.

Wow, I, yeah, I, I, uh, I can't put in
those hours I.
I'm running through and I'mlike, oh, here's a task Zoom.
Like right now I'm working withum Evelyn White Bay.
She's on the dyslexia taskforce, is one of the few
teachers and they came up with asolution for the state after a
year, but then they can't affordit, so we're trying to do an

(57:24):
affordable version, kind of likewhat I was talking about.
Right, and she was like four Xmore effective than your average
special ed teacher.
She's also dyslexic.
So she's like well, we have theschool we're going to to make
our first pitch.
And she said, oh, I need to getall this stuff done.
I said, okay, my primaryassistant, here you go, send it

(57:45):
to my other employees.
I'm going through PodMatch.
Oh, I got to do this.
Okay, email it off.
Please do this.
It's a lot of fun to give thework to somebody else.

Finally, yeah, it's nice to be able to delegate
that Absolutely.
I love that.
Yeah, and as a to be able todelegate that Absolutely, I love
that.

Yeah, and as a dyslexic as I try to tell
them, make yourself economicallyvaluable enough so you can have
an assistant to take care ofall this stuff for you.

Right.
Exactly that's what I'm workingtowards.
I'm working towards that.
It's hard, though Sometimes ifyou have, like me, I've been
perfectionist for so have thatperfectionist mindset, but I
have to learn to.
Yeah, I have to learn to letthings go and delegate, and but
I did, I've, I've learned to dothat.
You know, when I was younger,yeah, it was hard to do that,

(58:31):
and sometimes with with my work,because it's so specialized and
I work with counseling andsocial work, which are there's
accreditation involved, so it'svery complex.
But, you know, I try to teachsomebody else what's in my brain
, right, and so that's importantbecause if I Well, here's how
you do it.

Yeah, here's how you do it, briefly,
the consulting you're doing.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, now I want you to imagine as you
grow, do you do this?
Uh, do you do that muchconsulting now, or is it just
something very minor?

it's very minor , kind of on the side.
Yeah, okay all right.

Well, if you start doing that and start
charging with, you'd be amazedat how much you're actually
worth like giving, uh,professional keynote speeches
and that sort of thing.

Right.

All right, once you work your way up, then
you can afford an assistant.
Here's what you do you go andfind out one of your students,
or one of the undergrads thatrecommended by one of your peers
, who is somebody who is OCD whois?
A perfectionist and really good, and you hire them.
Right, yeah, you'll, you hirethem.

Right yeah.

You'll get along fantastic.

Right, it'll be just like two peas in a pod.

Yes, but that's how you do it.
It's not somebody you know.
Go to one of your peers,somebody that you really trust.
What people don't understand isthe last thing you want to do
is hire somebody off a resume.
If I don't know the person,then I go to somebody I know and
trust and they give me arecommendation, or I don't hire.

Jackie Pelegrin (01:00:06):
Yeah, that's important, absolutely yeah, I
love it.

Russell Van Brocklen (01:00:11):
I've had people approach me.
Here's my resume.
I said I don't hire off resumes, Huh.

Because you never know if they wrote it or
not, right, yeah?

Well, you know what happens.
I had one bad hire in my entirecareer and I went back to the
person who recommended it and hesaid I am so sorry.
I don't know what happened.
The kid's life just went offthe cliff.
And I said I don't ever want tohave that happen again.
And it never has.

Yeah, once you learn that lesson, you're like,
yeah, I'm not going to do thatanymore.

It was just that the kid went through.
I don't know what happened, buttheir life fell apart.
They got the appropriatesupport, but I couldn't keep
working with them.
But every other time I getthese fantastic ones and the
problem is they would hang.
You know, they'd worked for mefor several years and it's like,
well, I need a big rate.
You know they're worth a lotmore money than I can afford to
pay them.
And then they move on to, youknow, the next day.

Right, yeah, that's true.
Wow, this was great, russell,thank you so much for coming on
the show today and giving yourinsight, and, of course, I'll
have you back on and we'll divedeeper into all of this, and so
I want everyone to stay tuned,because you're going to be back
on a few more times, so I'mlooking forward to it.

Yes, and if anybody wants to contact me
in between times, I'm going tosend you a customized link
that'll bring over what we werediscussed today.
I call it the three reasons whyyour child's having trouble in
school due to dyslexia and howto get past it.
So you can go in and fill thatout and we can set up a free 15
minute conversation.
Or if that doesn't work, youcan just visit me at
dyslexiaclassescom pluralagainst dyslexiaclassescom and

(01:01:50):
just the contact one.

Great, wonderful, and I'll make sure to
put the links in the show notestoo, so that everyone has that
readily available as well.

Okay, well , thanks for having me on, it
was great.

Thank you, Russell.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for taking some timeto listen to this podcast
episode today.
Your support means the world tome.
If you'd like to help keep thepodcast going, you can share it
with a friend or colleague,leave a heartfelt review or
offer a monetary contribution.
Every act of support, big orsmall, makes a difference, and I

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