October 19, 2025 • 34 mins
In the latest episode of the Designing with Love podcast, host Jackie Pelegrin engages in an enlightening conversation with Grant Fullenbach, founder of GO First Consulting. The episode explores the fascinating intersection between construction methodologies and instructional design principles, revealing how systems thinking can transform businesses across industries.
Imagine saving your business $27,000 with just one extra measurement check. That's the power of systems thinking, and it's transforming how professionals across industries approach their work.
The conversation uncovers remarkable parallels between construction methodologies and instructional design principles. We explore how Grant's "Critical 19" scorecard system helps business owners identify exactly where they're succeeding, where they're struggling, and precisely what to do next – similar to how instructional designers use models like SAM (Successive Approximation Model) to create flexible, iterative learning solutions.
Whether you're an instructional designer looking to incorporate construction-inspired methodologies into your work or simply fascinated by how systematic approaches transcend industry boundaries, this episode offers invaluable insights. Grant's parting advice to document your daily learnings provides a simple yet transformative practice anyone can implement immediately.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Designing with
Love podcast.
I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you
information, tips, and tricks asan instructional designer.
Hello instructional designersand educators, welcome to
episode 56 of the Designing withLove podcast.
I'm thrilled to have GrantFuellenbach, the founder of Go
(00:24):
First, consulting with me today.
Welcome, Grant, hey.
Grant Fuellenbach (00:27):
Jackie, thanks for having me, thank you
so much.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:30):
I appreciate you coming on today and being
interviewed for the podcast.
My listeners will love it.
Grant Fuellenbach (00:36):
Yeah, I hope so, yes.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:39):
So, to start, can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and share whatled you to focus on consulting
professional builders andremodelers so that you can help
streamline their operations?
Grant Fuellenbach (00:49):
Yeah, totally .
So my background it's a littlebit different than a lot of
other people in this space.
I actually come from, like, theworld of drones, for a drone
company for a long time thatspecialized in software that
used drone imagery and then ittook that imagery and created 3D
(01:10):
models that you couldessentially measure off of build
commercial buildings or ag orreally anything from, and
through that experience, notonly did I get my hands on some
pretty cool applications for youknow just this world of like
what's called VDC or visualdesign construction but also it
(01:33):
opened up a lot of open up myeyes in a lot of ways towards
gaps that builders of all sizesgenerally struggle with.
And that's kind of where Ifound my for lack of a better
term calling, which is helpingto build operating systems for
(01:53):
builders and for people in thetrades who can take that love of
crafting things and buildingthings and actually make it
scale so that they can build thetype of business that they
actually want to work in andwork for, rather than having
(02:13):
that just act as another job, ifthat makes sense.
Jackie Pelegrin (02:17):
Yeah, that does , and that way they're not
constantly trying to grow thebusiness and trying to do that
day-to-day operation.
They can focus on theindividuals within the company,
right, and and cultivate thoserelationships and and do that
and hopefully that day-to-dayoperations kind of helps take
(02:38):
care of you know it, it can beautomated, systematic in some
ways, right.
Grant Fuellenbach (02:43):
Oh, absolutely yeah, that's kind of
a that.
It's kind of my, systematic insome ways, right, oh, absolutely
yeah, that's kind of my, Idon't know.
The thing I'm best at, I guess,is helping to scale automation.
So every role I've had in mynine to five jobs up to this
(03:04):
point has been director of salesoperations or revenue
operations or go to market.
So that usually revolves aroundteaching salespeople how to use
their tools, and that is one ofthe hardest things to do,
especially when you know it'skind of teaching an old dog new
tricks, but teaching an old dogsales force.
Jackie Pelegrin (03:24):
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, it's hard to help peoplepivot right and to embrace new
technology, new methods, newsystems.
Yeah, that can be hard.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, definitely.
And so you say that mostbusinesses are trapped in that
operational chaos, which is kindof what you mentioned there.
(03:44):
So can you break down what thatchaos actually looks like on a
day-to-day basis and what maybethe single biggest, often most
overlooked cost that isassociated with that?
Grant Fuellenbach (03:55):
Oh yeah, that's a great question, so what
that usually looks like is theowner-operator is the
owner-operator.
That's usually who we work with, people who've either started
the company or who were on theground floor of it, but the
company's done well enough thatthey've scaled past like 1.5
(04:17):
million in annual revenue, withthe operational chaos.
What that usually means, though, is they have a pretty firm
understanding of their existingproject pipeline, so what
projects they're activelyworking on, but they don't have
a good idea of how do I growthis from here.
We're kind of plateauing,hitting status quo when are my
(04:41):
gaps?
Where are my gaps?
They don't.
Most.
Most often, they don'tunderstand what is required to
get to that next level as wellas you know, um, how they're.
They might have a rough idea ofhow they're currently doing,
but they don't have a reallyspecific dialed in, you know,
report or dashboard that shows.
(05:02):
Here's all the levers that youactually need to pull in order
to make sure you hit yourrevenue goals next month or next
quarter.
Jackie Pelegrin (05:10):
Okay so.
So you use maybe something likea, like a stoplight method,
maybe where it's like.
Red is like this is not healthy, you're not doing good here.
Yellow is where you're they'rekind of there, but they need to
get to that and then green ismaybe where they're doing really
well.
Grant Fuellenbach (05:25):
Yeah, kind of like that.
One of the things that I kindof I developed is actually a
scoreboard just called I call itthe critical 19.
And it's literally just a setof metrics that the builder,
remodeler or the owner operatorplugs in every week and it tells
(05:47):
you you nailed it exactly, thatit's green, yellow and red, and
it tells you if you're on pace,ie in yellow, if you're
exceeding expectations in green,or if you're below expectations
in red, and it also tells youwhere that gap is and how to
overcome it for next week.
Jackie Pelegrin (06:10):
Wow, that's really great.
And I can see that applying toother industries too, right,
like education and like highereducation, k through 12, looking
at those, because metrics areused in so many industries.
So I can see that working thatmethod really working well, and
then you could even take thatmethod right and and kind of
(06:32):
pivot it and adapt it for otherindustries too.
So that's really great, yeah.
Even manufacturing I could seeit working really well for
manufacturing, right, yeah.
Grant Fuellenbach (06:42):
As well.
Yeah, I mean manufacturing.
That's where we got, like youknow, kanban and Agile and lots
of different project managementmethodologies.
Jackie Pelegrin (06:52):
Right, exactly, and it's.
It's interesting too because ininstructional design we use
those methods, we use Agilemethods.
So, for example, there's acertain model called the SAM
model success, approximationmodel.
So we have the usual addingmodel, which is the analysis,
design, development,implementation, evaluation.
(07:13):
But it's a systematic model.
It's been around since the1960s.
But the hard part about that isthat you usually can't move to
the next until you finish one,that you usually can't move to
the next until you finish one.
And so if you have an agileteam that thrives on that
collaboration and that fast pace, where it's like, yeah, we need
to turn this around in fourweeks and not 12, which a lot of
(07:35):
businesses are like that thenSAM actually takes that and it
breaks it down into three phaseswhere you prototype, you
iterate, you work, and so thatcan work well in any industry,
but it's really great.
And there's also rapidprototyping, where you do that
prototyping and you work withyour collaborators and your
(07:55):
subject matter experts and theycall it dirty design, where
you're just basically givingthem a rough design and saying,
here, this is just rough, notechnology really used, you're
just, even if you just sketch iton paper, you know, you're
doing that dirty design and itdoesn't have to be perfect, it's
just workable, somethingworkable that you're doing with
them.
(08:16):
So, yeah, when you mentionedthat, it just made me think of
those rapid development modelswith that and agile models, yeah
, absolutely.
Grant Fuellenbach (08:26):
Iteration if you can pull it off.
Rapid iteration is sotremendously valuable in pretty
much everything you do as abusiness owner.
Jackie Pelegrin (08:39):
Absolutely, Because then you know, with
those rapid iterations, you'renot waiting until the end to
make big changes and then havingto spend money and time trying
to repurpose something or redosomething, Because I've done
that in the past with trainingand e-learning and it's cost so
much money.
And then I've learned the hardway.
(09:01):
You know, when someone was like, oh, I forgot to tell you we
needed this change, and I'm likethat means I need to rerecord
the whole entire simulation now,which is going to take me
another three or four days andthat takes time away from
another project.
So yeah as they say, time ismoney and I remind people about
all the time.
I'm like if you want me tospend extra time on this, that
means that that's taking awayfrom something else that I could
(09:24):
be doing.
Grant Fuellenbach (09:25):
So, yeah, construction, that I mean.
It's the same concept, it'sjust called scope creep.
You know exactly.
Jackie Pelegrin (09:32):
Yeah, we use that all in education to scope
creep.
Yeah, yeah, where you, you havea certain scope of what you're
working on, and then all of asudden one more thing.
Oh, we want one more thingadded to this.
And then the one more thing youknow, becomes 510 things and
they're like, oh, my goodness,and yeah it's.
(09:52):
I have one, one particulardirector that oversees one of
the programs and she's like, canwe just do this little thing?
And I'm like, but your thingthat you think is little is not
little to us, because it has aripple effect, it affects
everything.
Yeah, so true.
Yeah, it's neat how you cantake those methodologies and
(10:15):
those techniques and use themacross different industries and
you can see the commonality andthe common thread between them
Do you guys use out of curiosity, do you use, like Gantt charts,
quite a bit to visualize thatLike to show that director the
ripple effect of what they'reasking.
Yes, we do.
Yeah, so I love Gantt chartsbecause it's a way to show you
(10:37):
know who's responsible for what.
And if we move something, likeyou said, if we move a timeline
or a date, this is how itaffects everything.
Yeah.
Grant Fuellenbach (10:46):
Yeah.
Jackie Pelegrin (10:46):
And so it's.
It's interesting because I'll,I'll let.
We'll let them know, yeah, ifwe, if we are delayed and
getting a textbook, you know,then we can't, we can't run the
course and then it's going toimpact the students, it's going
to impact the faculty.
So, yeah, all the materialsthat they're not there.
Just like with construction, ifyou don't have all your
(11:07):
materials in place, you know youcan't build a house it's not
going to pass inspection.
So you know, I use that analogyquite a bit of the building of a
house and that's how we have totreat training and professional
development is you start withthe foundation first, you build
that, and so you we.
I use the house analogy all thetime, but building a house,
(11:27):
yeah, Because people can relateto it.
Grant Fuellenbach (11:29):
Yeah, the Instagram reel I found a long
time ago, um, and I forget whosaid it, but I really loved it.
He, he used building the houseanalogy too and he's like if you
look at the timeline ofbuilding a house, you'll see
(11:50):
that the vast majority of thattime is actually spent on the
foundation.
And once you, you know, interms of doing survey work
around the topo or around the,the plot, um, making sure the,
the ground is level, digging thehole, pouring the concrete, uh,
(12:11):
putting in the rebar, all ofthat takes the most amount of
time and then putting upeverything else is kind of
secondary.
Jackie Pelegrin (12:18):
Right.
Grant Fuellenbach (12:19):
And in the real he said it a lot more
glamorously than that, but itjust resonated with me.
Jackie Pelegrin (12:27):
Yeah, that's so true, because if you don't have
a solid foundation, then therest is just not going to work.
Grant Fuellenbach (12:30):
It's going to fall apart.
Jackie Pelegrin (12:31):
Yeah, that's so true and that's yeah, that's
true in education and you knowall those things.
Yeah, if you don't have a solidfoundation, yeah, it's kind of
everything else, all thematerials, all the all the other
stuff is just kind of, yeah,doesn't really matter much.
It doesn't hold weight reallyso yeah, yeah, nice.
(12:51):
Yeah, I love that.
So I read too on your on yourWeb site and, and that you have
this solution, which is a uniqueblend of that proven systems
plus that practical AI.
So can you give a real worldexample of a standard training
process that becomes morepowerful once that practical AI
tool is applied to it?
Grant Fuellenbach (13:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And this one this is probablymy favorite one because it's
applicable across any industryand it's currently free, and
it's a Google tool that theyreleased, I don't know, maybe
like a year ago, but theyconstantly make iterations
talking about that.
To it it's called Notebook, ifyou audience is familiar with it
(13:37):
, but what's really neat aboutit is you can upload any type of
source into it.
Notebook's an AI model that,unlike ChachiBT or Gemini or
Grok or any of those, it isn't alarge language model.
It's a RAG model and that standsfor Retval, retrieval,
augmental, augmented generationso basically, in less nerdy
(14:02):
terms, it unlike chat gbt where,if you, you know, plug in a pdf
into your knowledge hub and askit something, it's not only
using that article, but it'salso using the web.
It's using its own context.
It's you know, it's reallyimpossible using that article,
but it's also using the web.
It's using its own context.
It's you know, it's reallyimpossible to tell where that
(14:23):
data came from in its answer.
Notebook is different because itwill generate an answer only
using the sources that you input.
So if you're talking about acourse, like one of the courses
that you teach, if you input itin your syllabus, your course
materials, the transcripts fromall of your lectures, you know
(14:47):
relevant YouTube videos or youknow other sources, you
essentially now have a knowledgehub of everything that's
shareable for that course andthen you can do a handful of
things with it.
You can turn it into a mind map, you can turn it into a study
guide, a full video if you wantto watch a movie about that
(15:12):
concept, a podcast.
Just the applications with thatare tremendous for knowledge
sharing.
Jackie Pelegrin (15:22):
Yeah, wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, it sounds like it's areally powerful tool to be able
to do that, and the fact that itdoesn't cost anything, I think,
is really great too.
Grant Fuellenbach (15:33):
Yeah, wow too , yeah, wow and um, I mean, I
there's a full, just like thereis with anything.
There's a pretty activesubreddit community for notebook
lm and that's one of the fewthat I follow very religiously
because people are alwaysbuilding tools and chrome
(15:54):
extensions and add-ons for it.
Just as an example, I found onelast week that allows you to
basically scrape full YouTubeplaylists and upload it to a
single notebook.
So, as an example, if this showwas on YouTube, I could go and
(16:18):
grab every video that wasrecorded and plug it into a
notebook and then turn that intoa study guide around.
What are the best practicesfrom all of the interviews
Jackie's done with this show?
Jackie Pelegrin (16:33):
Wow, that's amazing.
Wow, Because I've doneinterviews for two years, so
that's a lot of it's a lot ofcontent, right.
Grant Fuellenbach (16:40):
Yeah.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:41):
To be able to put it in a digestible format.
I think really helps.
Yeah, that's good for, yeah,for students, for faculty, to
kind of say here's, here'swhat's coming out of it, here's
the common themes and everythingthat that's coming out of that.
Wow, that's great.
And so you use it for yourbusiness too, right?
Oh, yeah, with clients.
Grant Fuellenbach (17:02):
Yeah, so every relationship I start with
a new client, I'll actuallycreate a new notebook for that
client and in there I'll haveany meeting transcript, project
scopes, our pricing proposal,contracts, anything that's
relevant.
I'll actually host it into thatnotebook and then so if I run
(17:26):
into a question or an issue oranything, I can quickly say when
was the last time I spoke withJackie, what did we chat about,
what are the next steps, and itwill reference everything it
knows about our relationship andcreate a little answer.
Jackie Pelegrin (17:43):
Wow, I love that.
So that's better than even liketools like OneNote or there's
other tools out there too, butwe use OneNote at work.
But yeah, onenote is kind oflimited because they do have a
web-based version, but it's it'slimited what you can search and
what you're able to do with it,so it has its limitations.
So it sounds like that is eveneven more robust because you can
(18:06):
cross-reference things andconversations.
Grant Fuellenbach (18:09):
Yeah, totally right?
Yeah, I mean, it's not.
You know, they're like toolslike one note or obsidian or
Evernote if anybody usesEvernote anymore, those are
awesome for note-taking andsharing just documents, I think,
a great tool, for I guess youknow they could be used like
(18:42):
together, mutually symbiotically.
I guess we want to use that wordright yeah that's the cool
thing about notebook is it's notreally like a true competitor
to a lot of note-taking apps.
It's more of, I guess, likeapps.
It's more of, I guess, like aknowledge-sharing app more than
anything else?
Jackie Pelegrin (19:02):
Yeah, it can serve as a companion to what you
already use.
So it's not necessarily areplacement for it.
So that's good, yeah, becausewhen we were trying to figure
out what kind of collaborationtool to use at our company, we
ended up going with Trello.
And that's an agile type ofmethod too, because you can do
Gantt charts and stuff like that.
(19:24):
And it was really funny becauseI've done OneNote training
sessions and professionaldevelopment sessions for 14
years I think or so.
However long I've been with thecompany 11 years but even
before that I was doing sessionson that and someone said to me
well, will Trello replaceOneNote?
And I said, no, no, no toolreplaces another, it's just they
(19:44):
compliment each other.
One is good for one and you canfind the benefits for each one,
and then you just you adapt andyou, yeah, you use the one that
you know works for yoursituation and yeah, so it's
really really neat.
And now Microsoft has somethingsimilar to Trello, and I don't
know if you've seen that, butit's got like the feature of
(20:06):
like the boards and the cards.
And what's really nice is thatwe collaborate with subject
matter experts and individualsat the colleges and plus
ourselves, and so if we haveoutside people, it's really hard
because of IT security.
It's hard to share all of that.
We can't share SharePointdocuments because those are
(20:26):
housed internally.
So being able to have a toollike Trello is really helpful,
but there's limitations to whatTrello can do.
So we want to be able to takesome of that brainstorming and
all of that and be able to havethat automatically feed into the
tools that we use to build thecourses, build the program.
(20:46):
So having a Microsoft tool isreally nice because then we can
share it out and we can say,okay, you're not associated with
Grand Canyon University, butthat's okay, we can give you
access.
And you're not having access toall of our systems, but just
that select amount, but that'sokay, we can give you access.
And you're not having access toall of our systems, but just
that select amount.
So that's what's great aboutthe, the technology and how
they've been able to to do that.
(21:07):
So it's pretty neat.
But it just takes that extralayer, those extra layers of IT
security, to get past all ofthat.
And I'm sure you've witnessedyou've gone through that too
with different companies, youknow being able to get access to
information and trying to sharethat and with their proprietary
information, you know, so it'sit takes some hoops to jump
(21:28):
through to get it, but I'm sureonce you get it it's really
helpful to have that.
Grant Fuellenbach (21:33):
Yeah, that's honestly one of the biggest
hurdles or objections we usuallyrun into with anyone that we
work with is you know how secureare these tools?
And that's one thing that wereally prioritize too, just
because we know how importantsecurity is, and almost
(21:54):
everything we work with iseither SOC2 compliant or
equivalent, you know.
Jackie Pelegrin (21:59):
Right, that's important, yeah, especially if
you've got, you know,competitors in the area that are
all competing for you know forcustomers and then competing for
you know that.
You know that prized, you knowclient that they want that, they
want themselves, you know forthe builders and and all of that
, and be able to have thatcompetitive advantage.
(22:20):
You know they don't want thatgetting out there.
So that's yeah, that's soimportant Absolutely.
Grant Fuellenbach (22:26):
Yeah.
Jackie Pelegrin (22:27):
Yeah, that's great.
So you know, we talked a littlebit about training.
So we all know how much of adifference the right training
can make, and before theinterview we talked about
just-in-time training.
So can you share an example ofa tool that you've used that
makes delivering thatjust-in-time training easier?
Grant Fuellenbach (23:20):
Yeah, absolutely so.
In construction, or in mostindustries, there's always this
driver of creating SOPs for yourmost important workflows.
Or talking about what we werejust chatting about about how do
you use trello and one notetogether?
Right, that that workflow of um, these tools are companions,
(23:46):
but how do they actually worktogether?
What's the best practice for?
For turning that into a, adocument or a video or something
that's tangible to whoeverneeds to understand it and
actually act on that data orthat knowledge, I guess?
And so just-in-time learning orJIT learning is really
(24:08):
interesting, but it's veryapplicable to construction when
you have a bunch of contractorsor subcontractors out on a job
site and you really want to makesure that they're following
best practice when installing awindow or installing insulation
or maintaining the job sitecleanliness or OSHA.
(24:30):
You know there's so manydifferent things and not to go
back to that tool, but notebookis actually a killer tool for
that too, because you can reallyupload all of your SOPs If
they're in a more standardizedformat or even if they're in a
video, into a shared notebook,and as long as all of your subs
(24:55):
have access to it and I'veactually built a few apps just
built off of notebook itself,and as long as all of your subs
have access to that notebook, ifand when they run into an issue
, they can literally just openup the app type in a prompt.
How do I install this?
You know quartz countertop.
(25:17):
How do I measure it?
Using the laser measure,whatever it is, and the notebook
model will actually tell themthe answer, based off of the
sources or those SOPs that wereinputted.
Jackie Pelegrin (25:30):
Wow, that's amazing yeah.
Grant Fuellenbach (25:34):
So it's one of those things that it is a
phenomenal way to transferknowledge.
The hardest part with that, asit is with any tool, is
consistency, is making sure thatpeople know how to find the
answers themselves effectively.
Jackie Pelegrin (25:50):
Right, exactly Because you want to give them
that autonomy, right to find itand not have to always rely on
asking their supervisor orsomething like that, but being
able to, to have that thatautonomy and and to be able to
have that self-directed learningis so important yeah to um, and
then if they can't find theanswer, they go to their, their
(26:10):
supervisor or their or somethinglike that and say, hey, you
know, I still can't find whatI'm looking for.
I just want to make sure I'mdoing this right before I
actually install this, or fixthis yeah exactly Because they
know if they don't do it rightthen they have to go back and
redo it Right, and then that'sadded costs at time.
So, and I'm sure the supervisorwould not be happy about that
(26:32):
if they messed it up and thenthey had to redo it.
Grant Fuellenbach (26:35):
So I mean the call I just had before this, a
client of mine.
Um, she's telling me a story ofa kitchen remodel and it's all
marble countertops and it looksgorgeous now, but what she was
telling me is that thecontractor actually had to eat
(26:55):
like a twenty seven thousanddollar cost because they had a
marble countertop measured outfor the island instead of the
countertop and so they cut outthe essentially the space for
the grill in the space that wassupposed to be for the sink and
(27:19):
it's one of those things if youjust slowed down and remeasured
or made sure that you were doingit correctly, or even pulled
out notebook it was like am Idoing this correctly?
You literally would have savedyourself more than $27,000.
Jackie Pelegrin (27:36):
That's a big mistake.
Yeah, a yeah, definitely.
Wow, I'm sure somebody gottheir.
Uh, you know what chewed outafter that?
Grant Fuellenbach (27:45):
yeah, yeah, one of those things too.
You know, it's like the theamount of like check uh boxes
that you and um items thatshould be checked off before you
go to cut or before you go andliterally execute or act on a
(28:05):
project.
The amount of things that needto be checked off or should be
checked off, I would say shouldbe different between a project
like that and even, I don't know, replacing a door, doorknob you
know, yeah, exactly.
Not all tasks should beclassified the same in your
(28:27):
to-do list.
Jackie Pelegrin (28:28):
Right, that's so true.
Yeah, yeah, there's that thatsaying of measure twice, cut
once.
Right, yeah, that's so true.
Yeah, and that's true in a lotof things.
You know, we think of it inconstruction and things like
that.
But I tell that to my people onmy team all the time.
I'm like let's make sure wemeasure twice and cut once,
(28:51):
because we don't want to have togo back and redo work again.
Yeah, so yeah, absolutely Ilove that.
Redo work again.
Yeah, so yeah, absolutely Ilove that.
That's that's a great, greatidea Be able to have that
information there.
And it brought to mind likemicro learning.
Micro learning is such a hugething and it's so effective
because you can give people thatbite size training on the go.
(29:13):
I'm sure they have tabletsright that they can pull up the
information, so it's readilyavailable on the job for them,
so that they can be on site andjust pull up what they need when
they need it.
So I'm sure that makes itreally helpful too.
Grant Fuellenbach (29:33):
Absolutely share.
Oh, this is what we didyesterday.
And then you know iterate onthat, saying, oh uh, the
electrician installed three newoutlets, okay, so now I need to
learn, um, how to say, like youknow, install the drywall or
whatever around those outletsright um, yeah, so I guess just
(29:57):
uh, not only absorbing but alsobeing able to organize and
understand, like what you needto learn and what you need to
know next, is really, reallycool.
Jackie Pelegrin (30:12):
Yeah, I like that.
That's a great.
Those are great tips,absolutely, of being able to
give that, deliver that trainingright then and there and using
those tools to to be able tomake it happen so that's
accessible for all the, all theindividuals that are working on
those projects.
Yeah, that's great, wonderful.
So, as we wrap up, what areyour top tips or advice for
(30:33):
listeners who are looking totransition into instructional
design or maybe even training?
Maybe they're just starting outin the field?
What are some of those tips andadvice you could share?
Grant Fuellenbach (30:43):
Number one.
I mean, you know we're in thisage of AI that we're currently
in.
It's easier than ever todocument.
So, whether you're in a courseor you're out in a field, or
just try and document yourlearnings and then put them
somewhere.
Put them somewhere that you'rein a course or you're out in a
field, or just try and documentyour learnings and then put them
somewhere.
Put them somewhere that you'reconsistently using, whether it's
(31:05):
one note or notebook or, youknow, google drive just get into
a consistent rhythm ofdocumenting things that you're
that you learned today.
Like I, I used to do this.
I need to do more of it, but Iused to post on Instagram once a
day a TIL, which was today.
(31:27):
I learned and just you know, dothat.
You don't even have to post iton Instagram.
Just do it for yourself, andthat will give you so many
dividends in the future.
Jackie Pelegrin (31:40):
I like that.
It's kind of like, at the endof the day, sometimes people say
what were three good thingsthat happened today?
So that's kind of that mantra,except you're doing what did I
learn today?
I like that.
Til, that's cool.
Yeah, Especially in the worldof acronyms, it's nice to be
able to reference that and knowwhat that is.
Grant Fuellenbach (32:00):
Yeah, I love that, yeah, another one.
My brother always asks this onall of our birthdays and it's
essentially what was yourrosebud and thorn?
And so it's like what wasreally good, what are you
working towards or excited about, and what was a bad thing?
Jackie Pelegrin (32:19):
good.
What are you working towards orexcited about and what was a
bad thing?
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, because then you can takethe.
You know that there's alwaysgoing to be the ups and the
downs, so be able to recognizeboth and then you know, maybe
even the thing that wasn't sogood.
What can you do to make itbetter?
right now, yeah, work towardsyeah, making it a good thing.
I like that, love that great.
Well, thank you so much, grant,for sharing your insights today
(32:41):
.
Uh, so your experiences ExactlyWork towards making it a good
thing.
I like that, love that Great.
Well, thank you so much, grant,for sharing your insights today
.
So your experiences?
Grant Fuellenbach (32:46):
tips and expertise are definitely going
to inspire my listeners.
Good yeah, I'm happy.
I mean, this is.
I love talking about this, sowe could talk all day.
Jackie Pelegrin (32:52):
Yeah, exactly, and especially making the
correlation between what I doand what you do and looking for
those commonalities.
There's so much in common so Ilove that and so it's wonderful.
And you know, who knows, someof my students may go into a
company that's construction oror something like that and and
work on instructional design ortraining for that.
(33:13):
So yeah, there's alwaysinstructional designers needed
everywhere, so it's a.
It's a growing field in everyindustry, so yeah, there's
always instructional designersneeded everywhere, so it's a.
It's a growing field in everyindustry, so yeah.
Grant Fuellenbach (33:21):
I mean, we always need to learn.
Jackie Pelegrin (33:24):
Yeah, exactly, yep, we're always on a learning
journey.
Great Thanks again, grant.
I appreciate it.
Grant Fuellenbach (33:32):
Yeah, thank you, jackie.
Jackie Pelegrin (33:33):
Thank you, appreciate it.
Thank you for taking some timeto listen to this podcast
episode today.
Your support means the world tome.
If you'd like to help keep thepodcast going, you can share it
with a friend or colleague,leave a heartfelt review or
offer a monetary contribution.
Every act of support, big orsmall, makes a difference and
(33:54):
I'm truly thankful for you.
Hello and welcome to the Designing with
Love podcast.
I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you
information, tips, and tricks asan instructional designer.
Hello instructional designersand educators, welcome to
episode 56 of the Designing withLove podcast.
I'm thrilled to have GrantFuellenbach, the founder of Go
(00:24):
First, consulting with me today.
Welcome, Grant, hey.
Grant Fuellenbach (00:27):
Jackie, thanks for having me, thank you
so much.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:30):
I appreciate you coming on today and being
interviewed for the podcast.
My listeners will love it.
Grant Fuellenbach (00:36):
Yeah, I hope so, yes.
Jackie Pelegrin (00:39):
So, to start, can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and share whatled you to focus on consulting
professional builders andremodelers so that you can help
streamline their operations?
Grant Fuellenbach (00:49):
Yeah, totally .
So my background it's a littlebit different than a lot of
other people in this space.
I actually come from, like, theworld of drones, for a drone
company for a long time thatspecialized in software that
used drone imagery and then ittook that imagery and created 3D
(01:10):
models that you couldessentially measure off of build
commercial buildings or ag orreally anything from, and
through that experience, notonly did I get my hands on some
pretty cool applications for youknow just this world of like
what's called VDC or visualdesign construction but also it
(01:33):
opened up a lot of open up myeyes in a lot of ways towards
gaps that builders of all sizesgenerally struggle with.
And that's kind of where Ifound my for lack of a better
term calling, which is helpingto build operating systems for
(01:53):
builders and for people in thetrades who can take that love of
crafting things and buildingthings and actually make it
scale so that they can build thetype of business that they
actually want to work in andwork for, rather than having
(02:13):
that just act as another job, ifthat makes sense.
Jackie Pelegrin (02:17):
Yeah, that does , and that way they're not
constantly trying to grow thebusiness and trying to do that
day-to-day operation.
They can focus on theindividuals within the company,
right, and and cultivate thoserelationships and and do that
and hopefully that day-to-dayoperations kind of helps take
(02:38):
care of you know it, it can beautomated, systematic in some
ways, right.
Grant Fuellenbach (02:43):
Oh, absolutely yeah, that's kind of
a that.
It's kind of my, systematic insome ways, right, oh, absolutely
yeah, that's kind of my, Idon't know.
The thing I'm best at, I guess,is helping to scale automation.
So every role I've had in mynine to five jobs up to this
(03:04):
point has been director of salesoperations or revenue
operations or go to market.
So that usually revolves aroundteaching salespeople how to use
their tools, and that is one ofthe hardest things to do,
especially when you know it'skind of teaching an old dog new
tricks, but teaching an old dogsales force.
Jackie Pelegrin (03:24):
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, it's hard to help peoplepivot right and to embrace new
technology, new methods, newsystems.
Yeah, that can be hard.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, definitely.
And so you say that mostbusinesses are trapped in that
operational chaos, which is kindof what you mentioned there.
(03:44):
So can you break down what thatchaos actually looks like on a
day-to-day basis and what maybethe single biggest, often most
overlooked cost that isassociated with that?
Grant Fuellenbach (03:55):
Oh yeah, that's a great question, so what
that usually looks like is theowner-operator is the
owner-operator.
That's usually who we work with, people who've either started
the company or who were on theground floor of it, but the
company's done well enough thatthey've scaled past like 1.5
(04:17):
million in annual revenue, withthe operational chaos.
What that usually means, though, is they have a pretty firm
understanding of their existingproject pipeline, so what
projects they're activelyworking on, but they don't have
a good idea of how do I growthis from here.
We're kind of plateauing,hitting status quo when are my
(04:41):
gaps?
Where are my gaps?
They don't.
Most.
Most often, they don'tunderstand what is required to
get to that next level as wellas you know, um, how they're.
They might have a rough idea ofhow they're currently doing,
but they don't have a reallyspecific dialed in, you know,
report or dashboard that shows.
(05:02):
Here's all the levers that youactually need to pull in order
to make sure you hit yourrevenue goals next month or next
quarter.
Jackie Pelegrin (05:10):
Okay so.
So you use maybe something likea, like a stoplight method,
maybe where it's like.
Red is like this is not healthy, you're not doing good here.
Yellow is where you're they'rekind of there, but they need to
get to that and then green ismaybe where they're doing really
well.
Grant Fuellenbach (05:25):
Yeah, kind of like that.
One of the things that I kindof I developed is actually a
scoreboard just called I call itthe critical 19.
And it's literally just a setof metrics that the builder,
remodeler or the owner operatorplugs in every week and it tells
(05:47):
you you nailed it exactly, thatit's green, yellow and red, and
it tells you if you're on pace,ie in yellow, if you're
exceeding expectations in green,or if you're below expectations
in red, and it also tells youwhere that gap is and how to
overcome it for next week.
Jackie Pelegrin (06:10):
Wow, that's really great.
And I can see that applying toother industries too, right,
like education and like highereducation, k through 12, looking
at those, because metrics areused in so many industries.
So I can see that working thatmethod really working well, and
then you could even take thatmethod right and and kind of
(06:32):
pivot it and adapt it for otherindustries too.
So that's really great, yeah.
Even manufacturing I could seeit working really well for
manufacturing, right, yeah.
Grant Fuellenbach (06:42):
As well.
Yeah, I mean manufacturing.
That's where we got, like youknow, kanban and Agile and lots
of different project managementmethodologies.
Jackie Pelegrin (06:52):
Right, exactly, and it's.
It's interesting too because ininstructional design we use
those methods, we use Agilemethods.
So, for example, there's acertain model called the SAM
model success, approximationmodel.
So we have the usual addingmodel, which is the analysis,
design, development,implementation, evaluation.
(07:13):
But it's a systematic model.
It's been around since the1960s.
But the hard part about that isthat you usually can't move to
the next until you finish one,that you usually can't move to
the next until you finish one.
And so if you have an agileteam that thrives on that
collaboration and that fast pace, where it's like, yeah, we need
to turn this around in fourweeks and not 12, which a lot of
(07:35):
businesses are like that thenSAM actually takes that and it
breaks it down into three phaseswhere you prototype, you
iterate, you work, and so thatcan work well in any industry,
but it's really great.
And there's also rapidprototyping, where you do that
prototyping and you work withyour collaborators and your
(07:55):
subject matter experts and theycall it dirty design, where
you're just basically givingthem a rough design and saying,
here, this is just rough, notechnology really used, you're
just, even if you just sketch iton paper, you know, you're
doing that dirty design and itdoesn't have to be perfect, it's
just workable, somethingworkable that you're doing with
them.
(08:16):
So, yeah, when you mentionedthat, it just made me think of
those rapid development modelswith that and agile models, yeah
, absolutely.
Grant Fuellenbach (08:26):
Iteration if you can pull it off.
Rapid iteration is sotremendously valuable in pretty
much everything you do as abusiness owner.
Jackie Pelegrin (08:39):
Absolutely, Because then you know, with
those rapid iterations, you'renot waiting until the end to
make big changes and then havingto spend money and time trying
to repurpose something or redosomething, Because I've done
that in the past with trainingand e-learning and it's cost so
much money.
And then I've learned the hardway.
(09:01):
You know, when someone was like, oh, I forgot to tell you we
needed this change, and I'm likethat means I need to rerecord
the whole entire simulation now,which is going to take me
another three or four days andthat takes time away from
another project.
So yeah as they say, time ismoney and I remind people about
all the time.
I'm like if you want me tospend extra time on this, that
means that that's taking awayfrom something else that I could
(09:24):
be doing.
Grant Fuellenbach (09:25):
So, yeah, construction, that I mean.
It's the same concept, it'sjust called scope creep.
You know exactly.
Jackie Pelegrin (09:32):
Yeah, we use that all in education to scope
creep.
Yeah, yeah, where you, you havea certain scope of what you're
working on, and then all of asudden one more thing.
Oh, we want one more thingadded to this.
And then the one more thing youknow, becomes 510 things and
they're like, oh, my goodness,and yeah it's.
(09:52):
I have one, one particulardirector that oversees one of
the programs and she's like, canwe just do this little thing?
And I'm like, but your thingthat you think is little is not
little to us, because it has aripple effect, it affects
everything.
Yeah, so true.
Yeah, it's neat how you cantake those methodologies and
(10:15):
those techniques and use themacross different industries and
you can see the commonality andthe common thread between them
Do you guys use out of curiosity, do you use, like Gantt charts,
quite a bit to visualize thatLike to show that director the
ripple effect of what they'reasking.
Yes, we do.
Yeah, so I love Gantt chartsbecause it's a way to show you
(10:37):
know who's responsible for what.
And if we move something, likeyou said, if we move a timeline
or a date, this is how itaffects everything.
Yeah.
Grant Fuellenbach (10:46):
Yeah.
Jackie Pelegrin (10:46):
And so it's.
It's interesting because I'll,I'll let.
We'll let them know, yeah, ifwe, if we are delayed and
getting a textbook, you know,then we can't, we can't run the
course and then it's going toimpact the students, it's going
to impact the faculty.
So, yeah, all the materialsthat they're not there.
Just like with construction, ifyou don't have all your
(11:07):
materials in place, you know youcan't build a house it's not
going to pass inspection.
So you know, I use that analogyquite a bit of the building of a
house and that's how we have totreat training and professional
development is you start withthe foundation first, you build
that, and so you we.
I use the house analogy all thetime, but building a house,
(11:27):
yeah, Because people can relateto it.
Grant Fuellenbach (11:29):
Yeah, the Instagram reel I found a long
time ago, um, and I forget whosaid it, but I really loved it.
He, he used building the houseanalogy too and he's like if you
look at the timeline ofbuilding a house, you'll see
(11:50):
that the vast majority of thattime is actually spent on the
foundation.
And once you, you know, interms of doing survey work
around the topo or around the,the plot, um, making sure the,
the ground is level, digging thehole, pouring the concrete, uh,
(12:11):
putting in the rebar, all ofthat takes the most amount of
time and then putting upeverything else is kind of
secondary.
Jackie Pelegrin (12:18):
Right.
Grant Fuellenbach (12:19):
And in the real he said it a lot more
glamorously than that, but itjust resonated with me.
Jackie Pelegrin (12:27):
Yeah, that's so true, because if you don't have
a solid foundation, then therest is just not going to work.
Grant Fuellenbach (12:30):
It's going to fall apart.
Jackie Pelegrin (12:31):
Yeah, that's so true and that's yeah, that's
true in education and you knowall those things.
Yeah, if you don't have a solidfoundation, yeah, it's kind of
everything else, all thematerials, all the all the other
stuff is just kind of, yeah,doesn't really matter much.
It doesn't hold weight reallyso yeah, yeah, nice.
(12:51):
Yeah, I love that.
So I read too on your on yourWeb site and, and that you have
this solution, which is a uniqueblend of that proven systems
plus that practical AI.
So can you give a real worldexample of a standard training
process that becomes morepowerful once that practical AI
tool is applied to it?
Grant Fuellenbach (13:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And this one this is probablymy favorite one because it's
applicable across any industryand it's currently free, and
it's a Google tool that theyreleased, I don't know, maybe
like a year ago, but theyconstantly make iterations
talking about that.
To it it's called Notebook, ifyou audience is familiar with it
(13:37):
, but what's really neat aboutit is you can upload any type of
source into it.
Notebook's an AI model that,unlike ChachiBT or Gemini or
Grok or any of those, it isn't alarge language model.
It's a RAG model and that standsfor Retval, retrieval,
augmental, augmented generationso basically, in less nerdy
(14:02):
terms, it unlike chat gbt where,if you, you know, plug in a pdf
into your knowledge hub and askit something, it's not only
using that article, but it'salso using the web.
It's using its own context.
It's you know, it's reallyimpossible using that article,
but it's also using the web.
It's using its own context.
It's you know, it's reallyimpossible to tell where that
(14:23):
data came from in its answer.
Notebook is different because itwill generate an answer only
using the sources that you input.
So if you're talking about acourse, like one of the courses
that you teach, if you input itin your syllabus, your course
materials, the transcripts fromall of your lectures, you know
(14:47):
relevant YouTube videos or youknow other sources, you
essentially now have a knowledgehub of everything that's
shareable for that course andthen you can do a handful of
things with it.
You can turn it into a mind map, you can turn it into a study
guide, a full video if you wantto watch a movie about that
(15:12):
concept, a podcast.
Just the applications with thatare tremendous for knowledge
sharing.
Jackie Pelegrin (15:22):
Yeah, wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, it sounds like it's areally powerful tool to be able
to do that, and the fact that itdoesn't cost anything, I think,
is really great too.
Grant Fuellenbach (15:33):
Yeah, wow too , yeah, wow and um, I mean, I
there's a full, just like thereis with anything.
There's a pretty activesubreddit community for notebook
lm and that's one of the fewthat I follow very religiously
because people are alwaysbuilding tools and chrome
(15:54):
extensions and add-ons for it.
Just as an example, I found onelast week that allows you to
basically scrape full YouTubeplaylists and upload it to a
single notebook.
So, as an example, if this showwas on YouTube, I could go and
(16:18):
grab every video that wasrecorded and plug it into a
notebook and then turn that intoa study guide around.
What are the best practicesfrom all of the interviews
Jackie's done with this show?
Jackie Pelegrin (16:33):
Wow, that's amazing.
Wow, Because I've doneinterviews for two years, so
that's a lot of it's a lot ofcontent, right.
Grant Fuellenbach (16:40):
Yeah.
Jackie Pelegrin (16:41):
To be able to put it in a digestible format.
I think really helps.
Yeah, that's good for, yeah,for students, for faculty, to
kind of say here's, here'swhat's coming out of it, here's
the common themes and everythingthat that's coming out of that.
Wow, that's great.
And so you use it for yourbusiness too, right?
Oh, yeah, with clients.
Grant Fuellenbach (17:02):
Yeah, so every relationship I start with
a new client, I'll actuallycreate a new notebook for that
client and in there I'll haveany meeting transcript, project
scopes, our pricing proposal,contracts, anything that's
relevant.
I'll actually host it into thatnotebook and then so if I run
(17:26):
into a question or an issue oranything, I can quickly say when
was the last time I spoke withJackie, what did we chat about,
what are the next steps, and itwill reference everything it
knows about our relationship andcreate a little answer.
Jackie Pelegrin (17:43):
Wow, I love that.
So that's better than even liketools like OneNote or there's
other tools out there too, butwe use OneNote at work.
But yeah, onenote is kind oflimited because they do have a
web-based version, but it's it'slimited what you can search and
what you're able to do with it,so it has its limitations.
So it sounds like that is eveneven more robust because you can
(18:06):
cross-reference things andconversations.
Grant Fuellenbach (18:09):
Yeah, totally right?
Yeah, I mean, it's not.
You know, they're like toolslike one note or obsidian or
Evernote if anybody usesEvernote anymore, those are
awesome for note-taking andsharing just documents, I think,
a great tool, for I guess youknow they could be used like
(18:42):
together, mutually symbiotically.
I guess we want to use that wordright yeah that's the cool
thing about notebook is it's notreally like a true competitor
to a lot of note-taking apps.
It's more of, I guess, likeapps.
It's more of, I guess, like aknowledge-sharing app more than
anything else?
Jackie Pelegrin (19:02):
Yeah, it can serve as a companion to what you
already use.
So it's not necessarily areplacement for it.
So that's good, yeah, becausewhen we were trying to figure
out what kind of collaborationtool to use at our company, we
ended up going with Trello.
And that's an agile type ofmethod too, because you can do
Gantt charts and stuff like that.
(19:24):
And it was really funny becauseI've done OneNote training
sessions and professionaldevelopment sessions for 14
years I think or so.
However long I've been with thecompany 11 years but even
before that I was doing sessionson that and someone said to me
well, will Trello replaceOneNote?
And I said, no, no, no toolreplaces another, it's just they
(19:44):
compliment each other.
One is good for one and you canfind the benefits for each one,
and then you just you adapt andyou, yeah, you use the one that
you know works for yoursituation and yeah, so it's
really really neat.
And now Microsoft has somethingsimilar to Trello, and I don't
know if you've seen that, butit's got like the feature of
(20:06):
like the boards and the cards.
And what's really nice is thatwe collaborate with subject
matter experts and individualsat the colleges and plus
ourselves, and so if we haveoutside people, it's really hard
because of IT security.
It's hard to share all of that.
We can't share SharePointdocuments because those are
(20:26):
housed internally.
So being able to have a toollike Trello is really helpful,
but there's limitations to whatTrello can do.
So we want to be able to takesome of that brainstorming and
all of that and be able to havethat automatically feed into the
tools that we use to build thecourses, build the program.
(20:46):
So having a Microsoft tool isreally nice because then we can
share it out and we can say,okay, you're not associated with
Grand Canyon University, butthat's okay, we can give you
access.
And you're not having access toall of our systems, but just
that select amount, but that'sokay, we can give you access.
And you're not having access toall of our systems, but just
that select amount.
So that's what's great aboutthe, the technology and how
they've been able to to do that.
(21:07):
So it's pretty neat.
But it just takes that extralayer, those extra layers of IT
security, to get past all ofthat.
And I'm sure you've witnessedyou've gone through that too
with different companies, youknow being able to get access to
information and trying to sharethat and with their proprietary
information, you know, so it'sit takes some hoops to jump
(21:28):
through to get it, but I'm sureonce you get it it's really
helpful to have that.
Grant Fuellenbach (21:33):
Yeah, that's honestly one of the biggest
hurdles or objections we usuallyrun into with anyone that we
work with is you know how secureare these tools?
And that's one thing that wereally prioritize too, just
because we know how importantsecurity is, and almost
(21:54):
everything we work with iseither SOC2 compliant or
equivalent, you know.
Jackie Pelegrin (21:59):
Right, that's important, yeah, especially if
you've got, you know,competitors in the area that are
all competing for you know forcustomers and then competing for
you know that.
You know that prized, you knowclient that they want that, they
want themselves, you know forthe builders and and all of that
, and be able to have thatcompetitive advantage.
(22:20):
You know they don't want thatgetting out there.
So that's yeah, that's soimportant Absolutely.
Grant Fuellenbach (22:26):
Yeah.
Jackie Pelegrin (22:27):
Yeah, that's great.
So you know, we talked a littlebit about training.
So we all know how much of adifference the right training
can make, and before theinterview we talked about
just-in-time training.
So can you share an example ofa tool that you've used that
makes delivering thatjust-in-time training easier?
Grant Fuellenbach (23:20):
Yeah, absolutely so.
In construction, or in mostindustries, there's always this
driver of creating SOPs for yourmost important workflows.
Or talking about what we werejust chatting about about how do
you use trello and one notetogether?
Right, that that workflow of um, these tools are companions,
(23:46):
but how do they actually worktogether?
What's the best practice for?
For turning that into a, adocument or a video or something
that's tangible to whoeverneeds to understand it and
actually act on that data orthat knowledge, I guess?
And so just-in-time learning orJIT learning is really
(24:08):
interesting, but it's veryapplicable to construction when
you have a bunch of contractorsor subcontractors out on a job
site and you really want to makesure that they're following
best practice when installing awindow or installing insulation
or maintaining the job sitecleanliness or OSHA.
(24:30):
You know there's so manydifferent things and not to go
back to that tool, but notebookis actually a killer tool for
that too, because you can reallyupload all of your SOPs If
they're in a more standardizedformat or even if they're in a
video, into a shared notebook,and as long as all of your subs
(24:55):
have access to it and I'veactually built a few apps just
built off of notebook itself,and as long as all of your subs
have access to that notebook, ifand when they run into an issue
, they can literally just openup the app type in a prompt.
How do I install this?
You know quartz countertop.
(25:17):
How do I measure it?
Using the laser measure,whatever it is, and the notebook
model will actually tell themthe answer, based off of the
sources or those SOPs that wereinputted.
Jackie Pelegrin (25:30):
Wow, that's amazing yeah.
Grant Fuellenbach (25:34):
So it's one of those things that it is a
phenomenal way to transferknowledge.
The hardest part with that, asit is with any tool, is
consistency, is making sure thatpeople know how to find the
answers themselves effectively.
Jackie Pelegrin (25:50):
Right, exactly Because you want to give them
that autonomy, right to find itand not have to always rely on
asking their supervisor orsomething like that, but being
able to, to have that thatautonomy and and to be able to
have that self-directed learningis so important yeah to um, and
then if they can't find theanswer, they go to their, their
(26:10):
supervisor or their or somethinglike that and say, hey, you
know, I still can't find whatI'm looking for.
I just want to make sure I'mdoing this right before I
actually install this, or fixthis yeah exactly Because they
know if they don't do it rightthen they have to go back and
redo it Right, and then that'sadded costs at time.
So, and I'm sure the supervisorwould not be happy about that
(26:32):
if they messed it up and thenthey had to redo it.
Grant Fuellenbach (26:35):
So I mean the call I just had before this, a
client of mine.
Um, she's telling me a story ofa kitchen remodel and it's all
marble countertops and it looksgorgeous now, but what she was
telling me is that thecontractor actually had to eat
(26:55):
like a twenty seven thousanddollar cost because they had a
marble countertop measured outfor the island instead of the
countertop and so they cut outthe essentially the space for
the grill in the space that wassupposed to be for the sink and
(27:19):
it's one of those things if youjust slowed down and remeasured
or made sure that you were doingit correctly, or even pulled
out notebook it was like am Idoing this correctly?
You literally would have savedyourself more than $27,000.
Jackie Pelegrin (27:36):
That's a big mistake.
Yeah, a yeah, definitely.
Wow, I'm sure somebody gottheir.
Uh, you know what chewed outafter that?
Grant Fuellenbach (27:45):
yeah, yeah, one of those things too.
You know, it's like the theamount of like check uh boxes
that you and um items thatshould be checked off before you
go to cut or before you go andliterally execute or act on a
(28:05):
project.
The amount of things that needto be checked off or should be
checked off, I would say shouldbe different between a project
like that and even, I don't know, replacing a door, doorknob you
know, yeah, exactly.
Not all tasks should beclassified the same in your
(28:27):
to-do list.
Jackie Pelegrin (28:28):
Right, that's so true.
Yeah, yeah, there's that thatsaying of measure twice, cut
once.
Right, yeah, that's so true.
Yeah, and that's true in a lotof things.
You know, we think of it inconstruction and things like
that.
But I tell that to my people onmy team all the time.
I'm like let's make sure wemeasure twice and cut once,
(28:51):
because we don't want to have togo back and redo work again.
Yeah, so yeah, absolutely Ilove that.
Redo work again.
Yeah, so yeah, absolutely Ilove that.
That's that's a great, greatidea Be able to have that
information there.
And it brought to mind likemicro learning.
Micro learning is such a hugething and it's so effective
because you can give people thatbite size training on the go.
(29:13):
I'm sure they have tabletsright that they can pull up the
information, so it's readilyavailable on the job for them,
so that they can be on site andjust pull up what they need when
they need it.
So I'm sure that makes itreally helpful too.
Grant Fuellenbach (29:33):
Absolutely share.
Oh, this is what we didyesterday.
And then you know iterate onthat, saying, oh uh, the
electrician installed three newoutlets, okay, so now I need to
learn, um, how to say, like youknow, install the drywall or
whatever around those outletsright um, yeah, so I guess just
(29:57):
uh, not only absorbing but alsobeing able to organize and
understand, like what you needto learn and what you need to
know next, is really, reallycool.
Jackie Pelegrin (30:12):
Yeah, I like that.
That's a great.
Those are great tips,absolutely, of being able to
give that, deliver that trainingright then and there and using
those tools to to be able tomake it happen so that's
accessible for all the, all theindividuals that are working on
those projects.
Yeah, that's great, wonderful.
So, as we wrap up, what areyour top tips or advice for
(30:33):
listeners who are looking totransition into instructional
design or maybe even training?
Maybe they're just starting outin the field?
What are some of those tips andadvice you could share?
Grant Fuellenbach (30:43):
Number one.
I mean, you know we're in thisage of AI that we're currently
in.
It's easier than ever todocument.
So, whether you're in a courseor you're out in a field, or
just try and document yourlearnings and then put them
somewhere.
Put them somewhere that you'rein a course or you're out in a
field, or just try and documentyour learnings and then put them
somewhere.
Put them somewhere that you'reconsistently using, whether it's
(31:05):
one note or notebook or, youknow, google drive just get into
a consistent rhythm ofdocumenting things that you're
that you learned today.
Like I, I used to do this.
I need to do more of it, but Iused to post on Instagram once a
day a TIL, which was today.
(31:27):
I learned and just you know, dothat.
You don't even have to post iton Instagram.
Just do it for yourself, andthat will give you so many
dividends in the future.
Jackie Pelegrin (31:40):
I like that.
It's kind of like, at the endof the day, sometimes people say
what were three good thingsthat happened today?
So that's kind of that mantra,except you're doing what did I
learn today?
I like that.
Til, that's cool.
Yeah, Especially in the worldof acronyms, it's nice to be
able to reference that and knowwhat that is.
Grant Fuellenbach (32:00):
Yeah, I love that, yeah, another one.
My brother always asks this onall of our birthdays and it's
essentially what was yourrosebud and thorn?
And so it's like what wasreally good, what are you
working towards or excited about, and what was a bad thing?
Jackie Pelegrin (32:19):
good.
What are you working towards orexcited about and what was a
bad thing?
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, because then you can takethe.
You know that there's alwaysgoing to be the ups and the
downs, so be able to recognizeboth and then you know, maybe
even the thing that wasn't sogood.
What can you do to make itbetter?
right now, yeah, work towardsyeah, making it a good thing.
I like that, love that great.
Well, thank you so much, grant,for sharing your insights today
(32:41):
.
Uh, so your experiences ExactlyWork towards making it a good
thing.
I like that, love that Great.
Well, thank you so much, grant,for sharing your insights today
.
So your experiences?
Grant Fuellenbach (32:46):
tips and expertise are definitely going
to inspire my listeners.
Good yeah, I'm happy.
I mean, this is.
I love talking about this, sowe could talk all day.
Jackie Pelegrin (32:52):
Yeah, exactly, and especially making the
correlation between what I doand what you do and looking for
those commonalities.
There's so much in common so Ilove that and so it's wonderful.
And you know, who knows, someof my students may go into a
company that's construction oror something like that and and
work on instructional design ortraining for that.
(33:13):
So yeah, there's alwaysinstructional designers needed
everywhere, so it's a.
It's a growing field in everyindustry, so yeah, there's
always instructional designersneeded everywhere, so it's a.
It's a growing field in everyindustry, so yeah.
Grant Fuellenbach (33:21):
I mean, we always need to learn.
Jackie Pelegrin (33:24):
Yeah, exactly, yep, we're always on a learning
journey.
Great Thanks again, grant.
I appreciate it.
Grant Fuellenbach (33:32):
Yeah, thank you, jackie.
Jackie Pelegrin (33:33):
Thank you, appreciate it.
Thank you for taking some timeto listen to this podcast
episode today.
Your support means the world tome.
If you'd like to help keep thepodcast going, you can share it
with a friend or colleague,leave a heartfelt review or
offer a monetary contribution.
Every act of support, big orsmall, makes a difference and
(33:54):
I'm truly thankful for you.
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