April 30, 2025 • 40 mins
The profound difference between solitary self-discovery and maintaining authenticity in relationships is the heart of this week's conversation. We dive deep into what it means to be "a monk on the mountain versus a monk in the city" – exploring how much easier it is to feel connected to our highest self when alone than when navigating the complexities of human connection.
Relationships serve as our most powerful mirrors, reflecting back aspects of ourselves we'd never see alone. That momentary sting when someone doesn't return our greeting or the discomfort of having our opinions challenged – these friction points aren't just obstacles to overcome but invitations to grow.
As we share personal stories about handling rejection and disapproval, we uncover how these moments can either cause us to crumble or strengthen our sense of self.
Episode Highlights:
• Relationships serve as mirrors, showing us aspects of ourselves we can't see alone
• The challenge of staying authentic while being in relationship with other people and their world
• Self-regulation when faced with rejection or disapproval
• Learning to stay open rather than crumbling when others don't approve
• How relationships expand our horizons by exposing us to different worldviews
• Creating something greater together than we could ever produce alone
• The importance of investing in relationships that matter
• Finding the balance between being fully yourself and connecting with others
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back.
Family, friends, listeners soexcited to be back with my
lovely co-host, brenda.
Brenda's here finally landed ather lake home, which is pretty
exciting.
As we sit here and think aboutwhat we're gonna record next and
(00:23):
for those of you that arecurious, I am still having tech
issues with Riverside, but herewe are doing our best figuring
out what comes next as we'resitting here, we've been in the
vortex of sort of the friendshipsisterhood series and we've
done a few gorgeous episodesright.
Just it came through.
(00:44):
And today Brenda was like Ilistened to this Abraham Hicks
meditation on relationships.
I really loved that and I waslike, oh wow, I don't know if I
would ever do one on friendships.
And when I asked her why shewould do it, she gave me the
most gorgeous answer.
And that's what I would lovefor us to talk about today.
(01:05):
Everything is relationship.
The reason why we even dorelationship is because we
really can't be alone, eventhough there are tons of places
where I guess in the Westernworld we're taught to be
independent, and as coaches wedefinitely are.
I can speak for myself here.
(01:27):
I definitely talk to people andsay the more responsibility you
take, the more freedom you have.
You definitely want to have aclean side of the street, but
that's not the be all end all.
You want to have a clean sideof the street and you want to
make sure that you're handlingyour vessel, but it is so that
we can be in relationship.
(01:48):
You can experience yourself withyourself, but there's nothing
like experiencing who you arewith other.
There is a purpose inrelationship.
You get to experience yourselfand see yourself through the
eyes of another human and seeyourself through the eyes of
another human.
You get to see yourselfreflected back.
And when I think about this,it's sort of I'm thinking of the
(02:14):
phrase being a monk on themountain versus being a monk in
the city.
It's one thing to be inrelationship with yourself and
feel like you are the best human, running at zero patterns and
zero chaos in your system, butthen you go and be in
relationship with other peopleand you're like, oh wow, I see
(02:36):
all these things outside of meand I would like to take this
opportunity, with my co-host, toremind everyone that, yes,
relationships, friendships, arecomplicated, but we heal fastest
in relationship.
It's sort of like you can'ttake a shower without water,
(02:58):
like you can't clean yourselfwithout water.
You need the water.
You need to be in connectionwith someone to see how you're
doing in that arena.
Like that is the litmus test.
There is a litmus test torelating.
You're not just with yourselfin a vacuum, feeling like you've
got this.
(03:19):
What comes up for you, brenda?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, I was going to say the same quote that you said
, because that is really whereit's at.
For me is being a monk on themountain versus being a monk in
the city, like there's so muchto digest in that I can just
have the best day just being inmy own energy.
I can feel so great, I cantouch God.
I have all these possibilitiesand feeling what's possible and
(03:44):
ideas and just being flow, andit's so great over here, just me
, myself and I, and that isgreat.
It's actually really importantto have that with yourself.
But then sometimes you know weneed to be a monk in the city
because we want to be in life.
And that's really hard becausewe get activated, we get
(04:07):
triggered.
People bug us, people arepeopling, people are being
people.
And how do we be with that?
How do we touch God?
When I say that, I mean feelthe full range of your
possibility.
When I say that, I mean feelthe full range of your
possibility, I call it touchingGod.
But how do you be fullyyourself, stay in your flow,
(04:31):
feel quote great do everythingthat you need to do and also be
in relationship with somebodyelse who may be potentially
doing the same thing.
Those things conflict becauseyou know somebody else might be
moving faster or slower than youare.
(04:51):
That's a big thing for me in myrelationship.
I sometimes want to move fast.
I'm going through ideas and mypartner is much slower.
Or I'm with people or friendswho ask me questions Like what
are you asking me questions for?
I'm just going, I want to go, Iwant to do this thing and I
(05:13):
need to slow down to be inrelationship.
I want to be present withanother person who may be
wondering what are you doing orwhy are you doing that?
Or maybe have somethingcompletely different to say or
do.
That changes the course.
It's not just about us if we'rein relationship with people.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Thank you so much for sharing that.
What I'm hearing you say issort of or summarize, is your
experience of what it feels likewhen you are alone, when you're
in your flow.
Feels like when you are alone,when you're in your flow, at
your speed, touching God, beingthe fullest expression of
(05:54):
yourself, unencumbered,uninhibited, and then introduce
people, and it's a differentballgame, I agree.
I think it's an art.
Friendships are an art.
At first, it's because when Ithink of young children,
toddlers, children between,let's say, three and six, where
they go to a playground, theyhave words, they can use their
(06:15):
words and you can see them whenthey get frustrated, they have
tantrums.
There's the little conflictsthat show up and basically they
just want another human to playwith.
Conflict sets show up andbasically they just want another
human to play with.
Right, they could be home or intheir own corner playing alone,
and when they see one littlechild playing, they may want to
(06:37):
play with that kid, maybe not.
And then two or three show upand if the two or three are
playing together, all of asudden other things pop up Like
well, I want to be part of thegroup.
When I think of adults, like whowants to go to a party where
there's just one other person.
It's not a party, it's not acelebration.
Yet there are people that Ihear say, like, oh, I love
(07:00):
animals.
I love animals more than humans.
I always find that statement sointeresting.
People will say, well, animalsgive you so much unconditional
love and it's like, yes, you'rein relationship with a cuddly
being that doesn't speak back toyou, like there is no friction
(07:21):
other than potentially a meow ora bark or whatever else comes
out of that being.
You're not in a back and forthSort of.
That being is so happy to justbe in your presence because you
are responsible for its survival, versus we are responsible for
our own survival, and part ofthat survival requires relating
(07:45):
to another human being who hasits own world right.
Other humans are in their ownconversation with self and other
, and they have their own ideasof what a party looks like or
what a conversation looks likeor what being in relationship
looks like.
They have their own familyvalues.
They come to the table fullydeveloped with so many other
(08:11):
things than what we dealt withjust in the sandbox as children,
and there's so much rewardthere, there's so much available
.
Being in relationship for me,in my opinion, is our adult
(08:32):
sandbox.
This is where we go and playand be in relationship with
other in the world, and it's notso simple, but it's so worth it
.
When I say worth it, I'll goback to what Brenda was saying.
Brenda was talking about how shecan feel herself and feel
possibility when she's withother, and when we speak about
(08:52):
being a monk in the city versusa monk on the mountain, it's how
can you be yourself, thehighest version of you, while
still being with another personwho has their own way of being
being rubbed by all thesecircumstances that can come
about, and you get to practicestill saying your truth, being
(09:14):
in your truth.
You get to talk about yourpreferences, what you like, what
you don't like.
You get to practice saying yes,saying no, being a true yes,
meaning you have already said noto some things and you know
exactly where you're puttingyour attention.
This in itself can be sorewarding, predominantly because
you get to experience yourselfin relationship with other and
(09:39):
still staying true to you andnot having to chameleon for
another person.
True to you and not having tochameleon for another person,
like being yourself, regardlessof the circumstances, is a
gorgeous experience and itdoesn't have to happen, and it
may not happen every time, butthe more often it happens like
you can really start to see oh,I'm getting somewhere here.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's beautiful and we want to be the fullest, most
authentic version of ourselves.
And I think that that'sprobably one of the hardest
thing to do when you're withother people, because when
you're with other people, you'rebumping up against their needs,
their desires, theirresistances, their fears, their
(10:24):
judgments.
Desires, their resistances,their fears, their judgments.
How do you be your full self,that feeling that I know so well
when I'm quote on the mountainand I'm by myself and I'm in
nature and I'm in my own energyand in flow.
How do you do that and havethat feeling when you're with
(10:45):
other people?
I just think that is, for me,probably one of the biggest
things I've worked on in my lifeand I think it's something that
people really want.
And when I talk to people, a lotof people just give up.
I don't think that a lot ofpeople think that they can have
that or they just it feels soimpossible.
Yeah, and this is where we getinto some tricky territory,
(11:09):
because very often people endrelationships because they think
that they can't be their fullself with that person, so they
end a relationship.
Ask me how I know this.
End a relationship so you canhave or be XYZ.
So you can have or be X, y, z,but unless you clean that up in
(11:40):
yourself and unless you practicebeing fully yourself with
whoever you're around, you'rejust going to come up against
that again in the newrelationship.
And also, I want to give roomfor the idea that sometimes it
really is hard to fully expressyourself with other people.
Sometimes people just don'twant to hear it and maybe you
actually do need to end thatrelationship.
I'm not saying that you shouldnot end a relationship, that you
have to practice being yourfull self, no matter what, with
(12:01):
somebody.
No, sometimes you do need toend a relationship or whatever
your soul's journey is.
But generally, I think, unlessyou clean that up in yourself
and you work on, how do I feelwhen someone doesn't agree with
me?
How do I feel when somebodydoesn't like my opinion or say
what I want?
Or if I don't do what somebodyelse wants, how am I in that
(12:25):
moment?
You're just going to constantlybe searching and looking for new
relationships.
I think it's a skill that youneed to build in yourself, how
to be the full expression ofyourself, and I think that's why
it's really important to spendthat time alone and to know what
it feels like and to know whatit is that you want.
(12:46):
What are your opinions onthings, what do you need, what
are your true yeses and nos?
These are important things tocultivate in yourself and then
you bring it to yourrelationship and then you
practice that Thoughts.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Say that last piece again, what you practice.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You practice saying your truthful yes or no.
You practice saying youropinions, saying your truthful
yes or no.
You practice saying youropinions.
You practice just letting outyour full, true expression,
whatever it is that you reallywant to say with the other
person.
And it takes practice.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
What is it that people come up against Like?
What is it that they'repracticing up against?
What do you think happens forpeople when they're trying to
say their true yes or true no?
They try to express themselvesand then something happens in
connection where they're likemaybe I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I think people crumble.
I think people crumble.
They get really scared.
I think it's for many people,and this was a lot of my journey
.
It's hard to let the full truthof your heart out when other
people might not like it or theywant you to behave in a certain
way.
That's the thing, right?
(14:00):
Yeah, exactly.
And then who are we when we letthe full truth of our heart out
and somebody doesn't like it?
Yes, it destabilizes yournervous system, and so it's like
a practice of how do you staysolid, how do you not completely
crumble?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
How do you not fall apart?
Exactly, not fall apart.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, how do you not fall apart?
The word that keeps coming tomind is crumble.
How do you not fall apart whensomebody disagrees with you?
Can you be with conflict?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
physically feel that you're not being approved of,
that somehow this otherindividual doesn't really like
who you are.
It's an uncomfortable feelingand it requires us to like
ourselves and that be enough.
That's what has us not crumbleright.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Totally.
I mean, I had that this morning.
I walked past somebody who Iknow and haven't seen in a while
and I said hello and he didn'teven look at me it's an
acquaintance and I was like, oh,that's interesting.
And I felt my body go.
I felt my chest tighten alittle bit and I just noticed
(15:30):
the interaction and an old me,an old version of me, would have
been really upset by that.
I did feel it because I couldfeel that he was closed and I
thought to myself, oh, he mustbe really upset about something.
He must be having a hard daybecause that clearly has nothing
(15:52):
to do with me.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
There's different levels right, and I think we
conflate them as humans.
So you said, oh, there was atime when that would really
bother me.
I think what happens for us aswe start thinking, oh, what did
I do or what is it about me thatthey don't like, is it
something I can change, like,how can I be accepted?
There's this voice, thisconversation that starts to
(16:14):
occur, the part of us that wantsto fix it and have it look and
feel different, and then thepart of us that's just like ouch
, that hurt.
Not being accepted, not beingwanted, not being acknowledged,
was painful in this moment andlike it's going to pass right.
It's if this person is anacquaintance or I just pass them
(16:36):
on the street or you know whenwill I see them again.
It's sort of.
It's somewhat abrasive, butit's not forever abrasive, it's
just in this moment when I saidhello.
And what I mean by we conflatedis that sometimes we can't take
away the ouch, this hurt inthis moment, from I want to fix
(16:58):
it right.
They're separate.
We don't necessarily have tofix every single rub that
happens.
Sometimes you're just in a goodmood and people are like why are
you in a good mood?
Sometimes you're smiling.
They're like why is this womansmiling?
Or I know people who say I'mnot a morning person, I don't
(17:20):
want people to talk to me in themorning, I want to be in my own
energy and not be spoken toLike I don't know if this
person's circumstance, but beingaround that is not comfortable.
Not so easy If let's say you'rea morning person and you just
want to chat, chat, chat allmorning long, and the other
person's like, oh my God, shootme.
The last thing I want to do istalk right now.
(17:41):
We have different preferences,right.
We are wired for humanconnection.
Like we're connected beings, wethrive in connection.
Like we're connected beings, wethrive in connection.
Relationships give us, likewhen we think about the
hierarchy, basic hierarchy,pyramid of needs, like basic
needs, belonging, safety, right,feeling that we're loved.
(18:04):
It's what helps us move throughthe world comfortably.
And when you were inrelationship, we're sort of have
a mirror to understandourselves better and it can be
so dang frightening.
I think that's one of thereasons why people say, oh, I'm
a loner, I'm an introvert, Idon't want to be in connection
all day long.
Because, yes, it takes a lot ofenergy to pass someone on the
(18:28):
street, say hello.
They don't respond or smile tosomeone.
They don't respond, they're notacknowledging you, etc.
And it requires energy on ourpart to stay regulated.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It really does and it's a practice.
I think it takes a long timeand it's harder for some people
than others, depending on howyour system is built.
And also after that happenedthis morning, I thought to
myself.
My first thought was, oh, likeI could feel the angst of it.
It was very small.
And then I did think, oh, hemust be really kind of unhappy
(19:02):
today.
And then I thought I thinkactually he doesn't like me and
that's okay.
I don't think I would haveliked that many years ago.
But now where I am hallelujah,I'm like I think that he might
not like me.
I think he has some judgmentson me and that's okay.
(19:24):
Now, what I do next isimportant.
Do I respond with anger or do Iclose and just brush him off?
Because I did see him againlater and I'm just going to be
my full self.
I'm just going to be who Itruly am, and they can like me
(19:45):
or not like me.
I think that's the part wherepeople get lost is they think
that if somebody doesn't like orsomebody doesn't like, what
they have to say you kind ofretract and close, staying open
and being fully yourself andstill being bold without being
(20:06):
like in somebody's face, I thinkis an art, like you said.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Well, let's talk about that part a little bit,
about closing when someone isn'tso fond of us.
It is a defense mechanism andit's also like oh, I can feel
that you don't approve of me, Idon't want to be available to
you, right, like this is anatural closing and what you're
(20:36):
talking about is oh, I see thatyou don't approve of me and for
whatever reasons, that's none ofmy business and I'm going to
stay open.
It's not a one-on-one stance,it's definitely a practice, it's
a higher level way of relating.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I've practiced that a lot.
I mean, that's been somethingthat I've really worked on for a
long, long time is how do I bemy full self, that I can fully
feel when I'm on the mountain,when I'm with other people?
It's been a practice.
It's definitely not aone-on-one stance.
I mean, maybe for some peopleit is how about for you?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
What do you mean?
It's a 101 stance.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
You said it's not a 101 practice?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I don't think so.
I think that that takes somepractice, I think knowing that
someone isn't fond of you andbeing able to stay open to a
potential connection at any time, because that's what being open
means.
Being open means you havesomehow shut the door, closed
the door for me, but I'm stillavailable to you.
And I think usually, like,there's different locations to
(21:49):
be at but someone doesn'tapprove of you.
Usually the first is well, Idon't approve of you either.
Or well, I don't want to be inrelationships with you anyway.
Who cares?
Right?
And then there's oh, you don'tapprove of me.
So I hear you and I respectthat and I'm going to stay here
and I'm not open to you, like Iknow that there is a disconnect
and I'm leaving the severancethere.
(22:12):
And the truth is that solidrelationships, like they, do
reduce stress.
Solid relationships are reallyhelpful for us.
They help us feel that we'reconnected.
They improve mental health.
We don't feel so lonely when wehave community.
The more community we have, themore connected we feel, the
(22:34):
more in purpose on this earth wefeel we feel, the more in
purpose on this earth we feel.
And so when we have to closeoff to someone.
It's also hurtful for us, butwhen we're sort of trying to
safe port our own heart it feelslike the safest thing to do,
and that's what I mean by 101.
So for me it sort of depends onthe person.
(22:57):
I think if someone doesn'treally like me, that's from my
past that I've known for a longtime.
Usually I love those peopleanyway, like I don't hold it
against them and I recognizethat I'm not everybody's cup of
tea.
I feel that I have a specificpersonality, like a way of being
.
It's not so easy to be with allthe time.
(23:18):
I would definitely say if Iwere to know someone now and be
in relationship with someonethat potentially is slightly
closed off to me I'm in the lastquarter of my life, I don't
really have space for that Iprobably would be more closed,
(23:39):
not as open, unless it was sortof like in a work environment or
tight living quarters.
If there was a circumstancewhere I had to cross the person
all the time, potentially Iwould be more open.
But outside of that I don'tthink at this point in my life I
would be available to itbecause it's just not necessary.
I think necessity would dictatethat, like, do I have to stay
(24:02):
open or not.
Because there's a certainenergetic cost to staying open,
because I have to make sure thatI'm regulated.
I have to make sure that, as Isee this person's disapproval,
that I make sure to be inapproval for myself.
Right, it requires a higherlevel of self-regulation to be
(24:23):
around someone like that.
So I'm not so on board withlike yay, more of that, please.
I'm like the places in my lifewhere I can eliminate that yay,
because I prefer to be inrelationship.
I understand that being inrelationship has a high reward
(24:46):
and I do want to haverelationships that challenge my
growth, where potentiallythey'll show me my blind spots.
They can lovingly be there tocall me out, potentially when
I'm doing something either wrongor I'm shrinking or I'm playing
small.
But I also want to have joy andplay right.
(25:07):
I want to have and be inrelationships where not
everything has to be a struggle,like where I can laugh and be
silly and just experience life.
Like where I can laugh and besilly and just experience life.
Yes, the kind of life thatfuels me and it's not just fluff
(25:28):
.
So I'm open to all of it.
But I would, at this point inmy life, prefer the more
combative and conflicting ones.
I want to reserve those to thepeople that I can't get out of
connection with, like for familyor family of friends like my
tighter knit circle.
If I'm going to experience andhave to spend that kind of
(25:50):
energy, I want it to be sort oflike a deposit into my community
, not just because for thisother individual.
That was long-winded answer.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It was a great long-winded answer.
It wasn't even that long-winded, thank you, and I'm so glad you
brought up about therelationships.
And yeah, I think it definitelydepends on who you're talking
about and how much you want toinvest.
Right, that's definitely athing, and I love that you
(26:22):
brought up how you want, in yourrelationships, to experience
life and be silly and play andexperience joy, I mean,
especially in today's world.
I think our world is prettycomplicated and there's a lot of
stuff going on in the worldno-transcript.
(26:59):
And it brings me back tosomething that you said earlier
about how you thrive inconnection.
I think that we do thrive inconnection and I'm curious how
you thrive in connection.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Well, my personality, whether it's fixed or not, is,
you know, a conversation foranother time.
Not my personality being fixed,but if, whether or not
personalities are fixed, which Idon't think.
So I don't think necessarilyidentities are fixed, but I
(27:34):
really learn best by being ableto bounce things off of other
humans.
Sort of, I'm less of ajournaler, more of a talker, and
as I hear things out loud or Isee the responses of others,
that's the way that I sort ofmake sense of the world that I'm
(27:56):
in.
So for me that's one of thebiggest ways that I thrive in
connection is throughconversation.
I want to know other people'sopinions, no matter how chaotic.
I want to hear why people likecertain things or know certain
things.
(28:16):
I was in conversation withsomeone the other day who was
talking.
It was a man and he was talkingto me about female
relationships and how he keepscoming across a particular type
of woman and he's very adamantand I could see, oh, he has
clearly a prejudice.
And I offered in thisconversation is it possible that
(28:42):
the reason why you'recontinuing to meet this sort of
person, this type of woman, isbecause there's something for
you to learn there?
It wasn't easily accepted, Iwould say it wasn't accepted at
all.
But I just say easily becauseit sounds better, and I thought,
wow, I'm bringing that intothis conversation because I
(29:07):
could see in that moment andthis is how I thrive in
relationships, this is how Ithrive in the world, because I
can see it out.
It's sort of like the projectionscreen.
I thought, oh, there are somany places where my experience
doesn't necessarily resemblesomebody else's.
Automatic experience, like, myexperience of friendships could
be different than yourexperience of friendships, and
(29:28):
it's because we have differentfilters, different lessons that
would lead to learn differentpatterns that we're running.
And so, for me, staying openand being able to thrive in
relationships is partly that I'mable to hear someone else's
experience and understand that,even if that's not my experience
, that that is their experienceand I don't have to make theirs
(29:52):
wrong.
And I can see where it existsand understand that.
One of the biggest reasons whyit's not part of my experience
is because we're runningdifferent programs in the
background God willing, allowsomeone to be fully themselves
(30:20):
because it helps me understandthe world differently in a way
that I couldn't, in a way thatonly exists in connection.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You really nailed that.
That was really beautiful.
And I hear so much approval andacceptance for who the other
person is in front of you whenyou're talking.
That really is a practice aswell learning to just fully
accept someone for who they are,and you don't need them to be
anything different than who theyare.
And it takes a lot of practicein yourself in stabilizing your
(30:49):
own system to feel solid, so youdon't need other people to be
different.
You could just accept peoplefor who they are.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I have felt myself retreat sometimes in that sort
of dynamic, and what I mean byretreat is I know that our
experiences are different and Iknow that the only way for me to
know that person's experiencein life exists is because
they're telling it to me.
Sometimes that person can be soinvested in their playbook or
(31:19):
their script of life and theythink that that is the only way,
because that's their livedexperience and therefore,
statistically speaking, theywant to talk about law of
averages and what's general,what's not general, and I'm
always like there's scientificbias.
If you are the scientist, ifyou are the person that is
(31:42):
gathering the data, there is afilter that is irrefutable.
That's occurring Like you bringyour filter to the table, and
so my constant work is can Iallow for this person's filter
to be in the table?
Because it helps me see whatelse is occurring in the world,
(32:04):
because I have my own filter andif I think that my way is the
only way or my way is the rightway, there's no way for me to
expand my horizon to see whatelse is possible without other
Like that is the gift that comesSometimes to me.
Potentially, what that person'ssaying sounds insane.
(32:26):
Thank you for saying, brenda,that I bring a lot of approval.
It's not that I don't have anyjudgment or that I don't think,
oh, this person's way isabsolutely bonkers or cuckoo,
lala or delulu or whatever.
It's not that I don't have anyjudgment.
It's that I understand that itexists, that their world exists
(32:46):
because they're telling me itexists, and they can't be the
only person in the world that'stelling me that exists.
And the only insight that Iwill have to that is if this
person shares it with me,because I am not part of that.
I have have to that is if thisperson shares it with me because
I am not part of that.
I have no idea that it lives ordoesn't live, and that's the
(33:07):
only way to unlock possibilityin the bigger scheme of things.
Like it requires these littlebreakdowns of what I think
things should look like or belike in order for me to even
expand my ceiling.
Now I'm starting to touch onsomething different, right,
because originally we're talkingin this podcast about
relationships and being inrelationship and how we really
(33:30):
need relationships to thrive andto connect.
It's what helps us get to otherlevels in this game called life
.
But now what I'm touching on aswell.
Expanding your horizons,expanding what you can touch,
feel and know as possible Insisterhood, when everything is
(33:55):
great and groovy is amazing, butbeing able to see the world
with people that potentially aresharing a world with you that
you didn't know existed, thatcan just rock your world.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Amen.
You bring up a great point.
I mean, we do know who we areand we learn about ourselves
through relationship with otherpeople.
I don't think that we can havethe full spectrum of who we are.
If we just stayed a monk on themountain, could we have a great
life?
Yeah, could it be beautiful?
Yeah, can you touch God all thetime?
(34:23):
Yeah, it could be amazing,right.
But I would argue that it's notthe full spectrum of who you
are.
And we do learn about who we arein relationship with other
people Because, like you said,it's great when it's going great
, but who are you when it's notgoing great?
Who do you become when somebodydoesn't agree with you or they
bring up a different point, orthey don't say hello to you when
(34:45):
you're walking by, or you thinkyou don't like them?
Who are you then?
And in relationship with otherpeople, we also see what's
possible, and we did a wholeepisode on possibility and this
is like you could have a wholepodcast just on possibility or
on this topic of relationship.
But I wouldn't know what'spossible if I wasn't in
(35:06):
relationship with other people.
No way, this whole podcastwouldn't exist if we weren't in
relationship and I've grown somuch through it and so being in
relationship and I've grown somuch through it, and so being in
relationship at all levels, allthe levels of friendship,
whether it's situational or allthe way down to soul
(35:26):
relationships, there is theopportunity to learn about who
you are in any moment and expandyour possibility.
Because who was I when thatperson didn't really look at me
and say hello this morning?
Who was I?
Well, many years ago I wouldhave been the person who would
have tried to fix it or make itright or gone into my head about
(35:50):
it.
And now I'm just the personthat says, oh, that must he must
be unhappy today and I don'thave to judge him for it, and
it's okay if he doesn't like me.
There's been a lot that's goneinto how I would have reacted to
that in the past, and now it'slike lifetimes.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yes, there's real magic and skill in that, you
know, being able to say toyourself oh, maybe this person
is having a bad day, and myassumption is that you also had
a felt sense in some otherinformation where you could
deduce that because someonecould just not like us and they
could have be having the bestday.
(36:29):
That occurrence occurs as well,and you, brenda, just brought
up a great point about who arewe in relationship.
I thought about this podcastand you could have a podcast
alone.
I could have a podcast aloneand we would be sharing our
thoughts.
But in this podcast, right now,I want to point out that we're
(36:54):
talking about the exact.
We're showing and tellingexactly what we're talking about
being in relationship, talkingabout things growing as you go.
This is a great example of whatit looks like when it works,
like we have been able to createsomething much more superior
together than we would haveapart.
Much more superior together thanwe would have apart.
This is a great example of thatand I'm really excited and I
(37:18):
feel blessed by it, and I guessif it didn't work, we wouldn't
have had the podcast, because wedid connect way before for a
long time, deciphering anddeciding if this was a baby we
wanted to bring into the world.
Thankfully, we said yes andwe've had a great time doing it.
And in relationship with you,in connection, in friendship, I
(37:43):
definitely can see places whereI'm strong.
I definitely can see placeswhere I could use some work.
It's been a great mirror for me, both professionally and
non-professionally, and so Iwould say yeah, no, that's what
came up for me when you sharedthat.
I was like, oh, this, thispodcast, people witnessing us,
(38:06):
in conversation, in connection,both in friendship outside of
professionalism and inprofessionalism, we've been able
to grow and this connection hashelped us thrive in many areas
that without the connection itwould not have been available,
(38:27):
and it has required work 100%.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I think any relationship that has value
requires work.
It really does.
It takes investing, like wesaid on our last episode, coins
in the fountain.
You have to put coins in thefountain if you want to have a
relationship that works.
On all the different levels offriendship and I'm just going to
(38:50):
go back to this situation fromthis morning, even that one,
because it's part of mycommunity here, this person, and
so I will be seeing this person, so it matters to me.
Even though it might not be aclose friendship, it still
matters.
And I think one of thebeautiful things that we've
experienced on this podcast isreally how different we are.
(39:13):
I mean, if you're justlistening to the opening intro
of our podcast, sometimes Ilisten to it and I'm like, wow,
we are so different and we teacheach other so much, and this
podcast is so much moreinteresting than it would be if
we each had our own, because yousay things sometimes that I
wouldn't even think about, and Ithink the reverse is probably
(39:36):
true, which is why it works.
She's shaking her head so yes,and that's.
It's just an example ofrelationship, like you said,
catherine.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yes, I think that relationship is so important.
Choosing who we want to investour relationships and where we
want to invest our relationshipsis profound and inevitable.
We are human beings that aremeant to be like.
We're wired for a connectionand if we're only connecting
with people that are like us,we're sort of really closing
(40:07):
that possibility window becausewe don't get to polish the areas
of ourselves that get to berubbed in other friendships and
other relating circumstances.
At the end of the day, what I'mhoping this podcast has helped
people see is that there'snothing like being a person that
gets to be in relationship inthis lifetime to the best of
(40:29):
your ability, because it's justso rewarding.
Thank you so much, everyone forlistening.
It was great having you.
If this touched you in any way,shape or form, please DM us,
let us know and we love youUntil next time.
Welcome back.
Family, friends, listeners soexcited to be back with my
lovely co-host, brenda.
Brenda's here finally landed ather lake home, which is pretty
exciting.
As we sit here and think aboutwhat we're gonna record next and
(00:23):
for those of you that arecurious, I am still having tech
issues with Riverside, but herewe are doing our best figuring
out what comes next as we'resitting here, we've been in the
vortex of sort of the friendshipsisterhood series and we've
done a few gorgeous episodesright.
Just it came through.
(00:44):
And today Brenda was like Ilistened to this Abraham Hicks
meditation on relationships.
I really loved that and I waslike, oh wow, I don't know if I
would ever do one on friendships.
And when I asked her why shewould do it, she gave me the
most gorgeous answer.
And that's what I would lovefor us to talk about today.
(01:05):
Everything is relationship.
The reason why we even dorelationship is because we
really can't be alone, eventhough there are tons of places
where I guess in the Westernworld we're taught to be
independent, and as coaches wedefinitely are.
I can speak for myself here.
(01:27):
I definitely talk to people andsay the more responsibility you
take, the more freedom you have.
You definitely want to have aclean side of the street, but
that's not the be all end all.
You want to have a clean sideof the street and you want to
make sure that you're handlingyour vessel, but it is so that
we can be in relationship.
(01:48):
You can experience yourself withyourself, but there's nothing
like experiencing who you arewith other.
There is a purpose inrelationship.
You get to experience yourselfand see yourself through the
eyes of another human and seeyourself through the eyes of
another human.
You get to see yourselfreflected back.
And when I think about this,it's sort of I'm thinking of the
(02:14):
phrase being a monk on themountain versus being a monk in
the city.
It's one thing to be inrelationship with yourself and
feel like you are the best human, running at zero patterns and
zero chaos in your system, butthen you go and be in
relationship with other peopleand you're like, oh wow, I see
(02:36):
all these things outside of meand I would like to take this
opportunity, with my co-host, toremind everyone that, yes,
relationships, friendships, arecomplicated, but we heal fastest
in relationship.
It's sort of like you can'ttake a shower without water,
(02:58):
like you can't clean yourselfwithout water.
You need the water.
You need to be in connectionwith someone to see how you're
doing in that arena.
Like that is the litmus test.
There is a litmus test torelating.
You're not just with yourselfin a vacuum, feeling like you've
got this.
(03:19):
What comes up for you, brenda?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, I was going to say the same quote that you said
, because that is really whereit's at.
For me is being a monk on themountain versus being a monk in
the city, like there's so muchto digest in that I can just
have the best day just being inmy own energy.
I can feel so great, I cantouch God.
I have all these possibilitiesand feeling what's possible and
(03:44):
ideas and just being flow, andit's so great over here, just me
, myself and I, and that isgreat.
It's actually really importantto have that with yourself.
But then sometimes you know weneed to be a monk in the city
because we want to be in life.
And that's really hard becausewe get activated, we get
(04:07):
triggered.
People bug us, people arepeopling, people are being
people.
And how do we be with that?
How do we touch God?
When I say that, I mean feelthe full range of your
possibility.
When I say that, I mean feelthe full range of your
possibility, I call it touchingGod.
But how do you be fullyyourself, stay in your flow,
(04:31):
feel quote great do everythingthat you need to do and also be
in relationship with somebodyelse who may be potentially
doing the same thing.
Those things conflict becauseyou know somebody else might be
moving faster or slower than youare.
(04:51):
That's a big thing for me in myrelationship.
I sometimes want to move fast.
I'm going through ideas and mypartner is much slower.
Or I'm with people or friendswho ask me questions Like what
are you asking me questions for?
I'm just going, I want to go, Iwant to do this thing and I
(05:13):
need to slow down to be inrelationship.
I want to be present withanother person who may be
wondering what are you doing orwhy are you doing that?
Or maybe have somethingcompletely different to say or
do.
That changes the course.
It's not just about us if we'rein relationship with people.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Thank you so much for sharing that.
What I'm hearing you say issort of or summarize, is your
experience of what it feels likewhen you are alone, when you're
in your flow.
Feels like when you are alone,when you're in your flow, at
your speed, touching God, beingthe fullest expression of
(05:54):
yourself, unencumbered,uninhibited, and then introduce
people, and it's a differentballgame, I agree.
I think it's an art.
Friendships are an art.
At first, it's because when Ithink of young children,
toddlers, children between,let's say, three and six, where
they go to a playground, theyhave words, they can use their
(06:15):
words and you can see them whenthey get frustrated, they have
tantrums.
There's the little conflictsthat show up and basically they
just want another human to playwith.
Conflict sets show up andbasically they just want another
human to play with.
Right, they could be home or intheir own corner playing alone,
and when they see one littlechild playing, they may want to
(06:37):
play with that kid, maybe not.
And then two or three show upand if the two or three are
playing together, all of asudden other things pop up Like
well, I want to be part of thegroup.
When I think of adults, like whowants to go to a party where
there's just one other person.
It's not a party, it's not acelebration.
Yet there are people that Ihear say, like, oh, I love
(07:00):
animals.
I love animals more than humans.
I always find that statement sointeresting.
People will say, well, animalsgive you so much unconditional
love and it's like, yes, you'rein relationship with a cuddly
being that doesn't speak back toyou, like there is no friction
(07:21):
other than potentially a meow ora bark or whatever else comes
out of that being.
You're not in a back and forthSort of.
That being is so happy to justbe in your presence because you
are responsible for its survival, versus we are responsible for
our own survival, and part ofthat survival requires relating
(07:45):
to another human being who hasits own world right.
Other humans are in their ownconversation with self and other
, and they have their own ideasof what a party looks like or
what a conversation looks likeor what being in relationship
looks like.
They have their own familyvalues.
They come to the table fullydeveloped with so many other
(08:11):
things than what we dealt withjust in the sandbox as children,
and there's so much rewardthere, there's so much available
.
Being in relationship for me,in my opinion, is our adult
(08:32):
sandbox.
This is where we go and playand be in relationship with
other in the world, and it's notso simple, but it's so worth it
.
When I say worth it, I'll goback to what Brenda was saying.
Brenda was talking about how shecan feel herself and feel
possibility when she's withother, and when we speak about
(08:52):
being a monk in the city versusa monk on the mountain, it's how
can you be yourself, thehighest version of you, while
still being with another personwho has their own way of being
being rubbed by all thesecircumstances that can come
about, and you get to practicestill saying your truth, being
(09:14):
in your truth.
You get to talk about yourpreferences, what you like, what
you don't like.
You get to practice saying yes,saying no, being a true yes,
meaning you have already said noto some things and you know
exactly where you're puttingyour attention.
This in itself can be sorewarding, predominantly because
you get to experience yourselfin relationship with other and
(09:39):
still staying true to you andnot having to chameleon for
another person.
True to you and not having tochameleon for another person,
like being yourself, regardlessof the circumstances, is a
gorgeous experience and itdoesn't have to happen, and it
may not happen every time, butthe more often it happens like
you can really start to see oh,I'm getting somewhere here.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's beautiful and we want to be the fullest, most
authentic version of ourselves.
And I think that that'sprobably one of the hardest
thing to do when you're withother people, because when
you're with other people, you'rebumping up against their needs,
their desires, theirresistances, their fears, their
(10:24):
judgments.
Desires, their resistances,their fears, their judgments.
How do you be your full self,that feeling that I know so well
when I'm quote on the mountainand I'm by myself and I'm in
nature and I'm in my own energyand in flow.
How do you do that and havethat feeling when you're with
(10:45):
other people?
I just think that is, for me,probably one of the biggest
things I've worked on in my lifeand I think it's something that
people really want.
And when I talk to people, a lotof people just give up.
I don't think that a lot ofpeople think that they can have
that or they just it feels soimpossible.
Yeah, and this is where we getinto some tricky territory,
(11:09):
because very often people endrelationships because they think
that they can't be their fullself with that person, so they
end a relationship.
Ask me how I know this.
End a relationship so you canhave or be XYZ.
So you can have or be X, y, z,but unless you clean that up in
(11:40):
yourself and unless you practicebeing fully yourself with
whoever you're around, you'rejust going to come up against
that again in the newrelationship.
And also, I want to give roomfor the idea that sometimes it
really is hard to fully expressyourself with other people.
Sometimes people just don'twant to hear it and maybe you
actually do need to end thatrelationship.
I'm not saying that you shouldnot end a relationship, that you
have to practice being yourfull self, no matter what, with
(12:01):
somebody.
No, sometimes you do need toend a relationship or whatever
your soul's journey is.
But generally, I think, unlessyou clean that up in yourself
and you work on, how do I feelwhen someone doesn't agree with
me?
How do I feel when somebodydoesn't like my opinion or say
what I want?
Or if I don't do what somebodyelse wants, how am I in that
(12:25):
moment?
You're just going to constantlybe searching and looking for new
relationships.
I think it's a skill that youneed to build in yourself, how
to be the full expression ofyourself, and I think that's why
it's really important to spendthat time alone and to know what
it feels like and to know whatit is that you want.
(12:46):
What are your opinions onthings, what do you need, what
are your true yeses and nos?
These are important things tocultivate in yourself and then
you bring it to yourrelationship and then you
practice that Thoughts.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Say that last piece again, what you practice.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You practice saying your truthful yes or no.
You practice saying youropinions, saying your truthful
yes or no.
You practice saying youropinions.
You practice just letting outyour full, true expression,
whatever it is that you reallywant to say with the other
person.
And it takes practice.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
What is it that people come up against Like?
What is it that they'repracticing up against?
What do you think happens forpeople when they're trying to
say their true yes or true no?
They try to express themselvesand then something happens in
connection where they're likemaybe I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I think people crumble.
I think people crumble.
They get really scared.
I think it's for many people,and this was a lot of my journey
.
It's hard to let the full truthof your heart out when other
people might not like it or theywant you to behave in a certain
way.
That's the thing, right?
(14:00):
Yeah, exactly.
And then who are we when we letthe full truth of our heart out
and somebody doesn't like it?
Yes, it destabilizes yournervous system, and so it's like
a practice of how do you staysolid, how do you not completely
crumble?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
How do you not fall apart?
Exactly, not fall apart.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, how do you not fall apart?
The word that keeps coming tomind is crumble.
How do you not fall apart whensomebody disagrees with you?
Can you be with conflict?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
physically feel that you're not being approved of,
that somehow this otherindividual doesn't really like
who you are.
It's an uncomfortable feelingand it requires us to like
ourselves and that be enough.
That's what has us not crumbleright.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Totally.
I mean, I had that this morning.
I walked past somebody who Iknow and haven't seen in a while
and I said hello and he didn'teven look at me it's an
acquaintance and I was like, oh,that's interesting.
And I felt my body go.
I felt my chest tighten alittle bit and I just noticed
(15:30):
the interaction and an old me,an old version of me, would have
been really upset by that.
I did feel it because I couldfeel that he was closed and I
thought to myself, oh, he mustbe really upset about something.
He must be having a hard daybecause that clearly has nothing
(15:52):
to do with me.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
There's different levels right, and I think we
conflate them as humans.
So you said, oh, there was atime when that would really
bother me.
I think what happens for us aswe start thinking, oh, what did
I do or what is it about me thatthey don't like, is it
something I can change, like,how can I be accepted?
There's this voice, thisconversation that starts to
(16:14):
occur, the part of us that wantsto fix it and have it look and
feel different, and then thepart of us that's just like ouch
, that hurt.
Not being accepted, not beingwanted, not being acknowledged,
was painful in this moment andlike it's going to pass right.
It's if this person is anacquaintance or I just pass them
(16:36):
on the street or you know whenwill I see them again.
It's sort of.
It's somewhat abrasive, butit's not forever abrasive, it's
just in this moment when I saidhello.
And what I mean by we conflatedis that sometimes we can't take
away the ouch, this hurt inthis moment, from I want to fix
(16:58):
it right.
They're separate.
We don't necessarily have tofix every single rub that
happens.
Sometimes you're just in a goodmood and people are like why are
you in a good mood?
Sometimes you're smiling.
They're like why is this womansmiling?
Or I know people who say I'mnot a morning person, I don't
(17:20):
want people to talk to me in themorning, I want to be in my own
energy and not be spoken toLike I don't know if this
person's circumstance, but beingaround that is not comfortable.
Not so easy If let's say you'rea morning person and you just
want to chat, chat, chat allmorning long, and the other
person's like, oh my God, shootme.
The last thing I want to do istalk right now.
(17:41):
We have different preferences,right.
We are wired for humanconnection.
Like we're connected beings, wethrive in connection.
Like we're connected beings, wethrive in connection.
Relationships give us, likewhen we think about the
hierarchy, basic hierarchy,pyramid of needs, like basic
needs, belonging, safety, right,feeling that we're loved.
(18:04):
It's what helps us move throughthe world comfortably.
And when you were inrelationship, we're sort of have
a mirror to understandourselves better and it can be
so dang frightening.
I think that's one of thereasons why people say, oh, I'm
a loner, I'm an introvert, Idon't want to be in connection
all day long.
Because, yes, it takes a lot ofenergy to pass someone on the
(18:28):
street, say hello.
They don't respond or smile tosomeone.
They don't respond, they're notacknowledging you, etc.
And it requires energy on ourpart to stay regulated.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It really does and it's a practice.
I think it takes a long timeand it's harder for some people
than others, depending on howyour system is built.
And also after that happenedthis morning, I thought to
myself.
My first thought was, oh, likeI could feel the angst of it.
It was very small.
And then I did think, oh, hemust be really kind of unhappy
(19:02):
today.
And then I thought I thinkactually he doesn't like me and
that's okay.
I don't think I would haveliked that many years ago.
But now where I am hallelujah,I'm like I think that he might
not like me.
I think he has some judgmentson me and that's okay.
(19:24):
Now, what I do next isimportant.
Do I respond with anger or do Iclose and just brush him off?
Because I did see him againlater and I'm just going to be
my full self.
I'm just going to be who Itruly am, and they can like me
(19:45):
or not like me.
I think that's the part wherepeople get lost is they think
that if somebody doesn't like orsomebody doesn't like, what
they have to say you kind ofretract and close, staying open
and being fully yourself andstill being bold without being
(20:06):
like in somebody's face, I thinkis an art, like you said.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Well, let's talk about that part a little bit,
about closing when someone isn'tso fond of us.
It is a defense mechanism andit's also like oh, I can feel
that you don't approve of me, Idon't want to be available to
you, right, like this is anatural closing and what you're
(20:36):
talking about is oh, I see thatyou don't approve of me and for
whatever reasons, that's none ofmy business and I'm going to
stay open.
It's not a one-on-one stance,it's definitely a practice, it's
a higher level way of relating.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I've practiced that a lot.
I mean, that's been somethingthat I've really worked on for a
long, long time is how do I bemy full self, that I can fully
feel when I'm on the mountain,when I'm with other people?
It's been a practice.
It's definitely not aone-on-one stance.
I mean, maybe for some peopleit is how about for you?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
What do you mean?
It's a 101 stance.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
You said it's not a 101 practice?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I don't think so.
I think that that takes somepractice, I think knowing that
someone isn't fond of you andbeing able to stay open to a
potential connection at any time, because that's what being open
means.
Being open means you havesomehow shut the door, closed
the door for me, but I'm stillavailable to you.
And I think usually, like,there's different locations to
(21:49):
be at but someone doesn'tapprove of you.
Usually the first is well, Idon't approve of you either.
Or well, I don't want to be inrelationships with you anyway.
Who cares?
Right?
And then there's oh, you don'tapprove of me.
So I hear you and I respectthat and I'm going to stay here
and I'm not open to you, like Iknow that there is a disconnect
and I'm leaving the severancethere.
(22:12):
And the truth is that solidrelationships, like they, do
reduce stress.
Solid relationships are reallyhelpful for us.
They help us feel that we'reconnected.
They improve mental health.
We don't feel so lonely when wehave community.
The more community we have, themore connected we feel, the
(22:34):
more in purpose on this earth wefeel we feel, the more in
purpose on this earth we feel.
And so when we have to closeoff to someone.
It's also hurtful for us, butwhen we're sort of trying to
safe port our own heart it feelslike the safest thing to do,
and that's what I mean by 101.
So for me it sort of depends onthe person.
(22:57):
I think if someone doesn'treally like me, that's from my
past that I've known for a longtime.
Usually I love those peopleanyway, like I don't hold it
against them and I recognizethat I'm not everybody's cup of
tea.
I feel that I have a specificpersonality, like a way of being
.
It's not so easy to be with allthe time.
(23:18):
I would definitely say if Iwere to know someone now and be
in relationship with someonethat potentially is slightly
closed off to me I'm in the lastquarter of my life, I don't
really have space for that Iprobably would be more closed,
(23:39):
not as open, unless it was sortof like in a work environment or
tight living quarters.
If there was a circumstancewhere I had to cross the person
all the time, potentially Iwould be more open.
But outside of that I don'tthink at this point in my life I
would be available to itbecause it's just not necessary.
I think necessity would dictatethat, like, do I have to stay
(24:02):
open or not.
Because there's a certainenergetic cost to staying open,
because I have to make sure thatI'm regulated.
I have to make sure that, as Isee this person's disapproval,
that I make sure to be inapproval for myself.
Right, it requires a higherlevel of self-regulation to be
(24:23):
around someone like that.
So I'm not so on board withlike yay, more of that, please.
I'm like the places in my lifewhere I can eliminate that yay,
because I prefer to be inrelationship.
I understand that being inrelationship has a high reward
(24:46):
and I do want to haverelationships that challenge my
growth, where potentiallythey'll show me my blind spots.
They can lovingly be there tocall me out, potentially when
I'm doing something either wrongor I'm shrinking or I'm playing
small.
But I also want to have joy andplay right.
(25:07):
I want to have and be inrelationships where not
everything has to be a struggle,like where I can laugh and be
silly and just experience life.
Like where I can laugh and besilly and just experience life.
Yes, the kind of life thatfuels me and it's not just fluff
(25:28):
.
So I'm open to all of it.
But I would, at this point inmy life, prefer the more
combative and conflicting ones.
I want to reserve those to thepeople that I can't get out of
connection with, like for familyor family of friends like my
tighter knit circle.
If I'm going to experience andhave to spend that kind of
(25:50):
energy, I want it to be sort oflike a deposit into my community
, not just because for thisother individual.
That was long-winded answer.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It was a great long-winded answer.
It wasn't even that long-winded, thank you, and I'm so glad you
brought up about therelationships.
And yeah, I think it definitelydepends on who you're talking
about and how much you want toinvest.
Right, that's definitely athing, and I love that you
(26:22):
brought up how you want, in yourrelationships, to experience
life and be silly and play andexperience joy, I mean,
especially in today's world.
I think our world is prettycomplicated and there's a lot of
stuff going on in the worldno-transcript.
(26:59):
And it brings me back tosomething that you said earlier
about how you thrive inconnection.
I think that we do thrive inconnection and I'm curious how
you thrive in connection.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Well, my personality, whether it's fixed or not, is,
you know, a conversation foranother time.
Not my personality being fixed,but if, whether or not
personalities are fixed, which Idon't think.
So I don't think necessarilyidentities are fixed, but I
(27:34):
really learn best by being ableto bounce things off of other
humans.
Sort of, I'm less of ajournaler, more of a talker, and
as I hear things out loud or Isee the responses of others,
that's the way that I sort ofmake sense of the world that I'm
(27:56):
in.
So for me that's one of thebiggest ways that I thrive in
connection is throughconversation.
I want to know other people'sopinions, no matter how chaotic.
I want to hear why people likecertain things or know certain
things.
(28:16):
I was in conversation withsomeone the other day who was
talking.
It was a man and he was talkingto me about female
relationships and how he keepscoming across a particular type
of woman and he's very adamantand I could see, oh, he has
clearly a prejudice.
And I offered in thisconversation is it possible that
(28:42):
the reason why you'recontinuing to meet this sort of
person, this type of woman, isbecause there's something for
you to learn there?
It wasn't easily accepted, Iwould say it wasn't accepted at
all.
But I just say easily becauseit sounds better, and I thought,
wow, I'm bringing that intothis conversation because I
(29:07):
could see in that moment andthis is how I thrive in
relationships, this is how Ithrive in the world, because I
can see it out.
It's sort of like the projectionscreen.
I thought, oh, there are somany places where my experience
doesn't necessarily resemblesomebody else's.
Automatic experience, like, myexperience of friendships could
be different than yourexperience of friendships, and
(29:28):
it's because we have differentfilters, different lessons that
would lead to learn differentpatterns that we're running.
And so, for me, staying openand being able to thrive in
relationships is partly that I'mable to hear someone else's
experience and understand that,even if that's not my experience
, that that is their experienceand I don't have to make theirs
(29:52):
wrong.
And I can see where it existsand understand that.
One of the biggest reasons whyit's not part of my experience
is because we're runningdifferent programs in the
background God willing, allowsomeone to be fully themselves
(30:20):
because it helps me understandthe world differently in a way
that I couldn't, in a way thatonly exists in connection.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You really nailed that.
That was really beautiful.
And I hear so much approval andacceptance for who the other
person is in front of you whenyou're talking.
That really is a practice aswell learning to just fully
accept someone for who they are,and you don't need them to be
anything different than who theyare.
And it takes a lot of practicein yourself in stabilizing your
(30:49):
own system to feel solid, so youdon't need other people to be
different.
You could just accept peoplefor who they are.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I have felt myself retreat sometimes in that sort
of dynamic, and what I mean byretreat is I know that our
experiences are different and Iknow that the only way for me to
know that person's experiencein life exists is because
they're telling it to me.
Sometimes that person can be soinvested in their playbook or
(31:19):
their script of life and theythink that that is the only way,
because that's their livedexperience and therefore,
statistically speaking, theywant to talk about law of
averages and what's general,what's not general, and I'm
always like there's scientificbias.
If you are the scientist, ifyou are the person that is
(31:42):
gathering the data, there is afilter that is irrefutable.
That's occurring Like you bringyour filter to the table, and
so my constant work is can Iallow for this person's filter
to be in the table?
Because it helps me see whatelse is occurring in the world,
(32:04):
because I have my own filter andif I think that my way is the
only way or my way is the rightway, there's no way for me to
expand my horizon to see whatelse is possible without other
Like that is the gift that comesSometimes to me.
Potentially, what that person'ssaying sounds insane.
(32:26):
Thank you for saying, brenda,that I bring a lot of approval.
It's not that I don't have anyjudgment or that I don't think,
oh, this person's way isabsolutely bonkers or cuckoo,
lala or delulu or whatever.
It's not that I don't have anyjudgment.
It's that I understand that itexists, that their world exists
(32:46):
because they're telling me itexists, and they can't be the
only person in the world that'stelling me that exists.
And the only insight that Iwill have to that is if this
person shares it with me,because I am not part of that.
I have have to that is if thisperson shares it with me because
I am not part of that.
I have no idea that it lives ordoesn't live, and that's the
(33:07):
only way to unlock possibilityin the bigger scheme of things.
Like it requires these littlebreakdowns of what I think
things should look like or belike in order for me to even
expand my ceiling.
Now I'm starting to touch onsomething different, right,
because originally we're talkingin this podcast about
relationships and being inrelationship and how we really
(33:30):
need relationships to thrive andto connect.
It's what helps us get to otherlevels in this game called life
.
But now what I'm touching on aswell.
Expanding your horizons,expanding what you can touch,
feel and know as possible Insisterhood, when everything is
(33:55):
great and groovy is amazing, butbeing able to see the world
with people that potentially aresharing a world with you that
you didn't know existed, thatcan just rock your world.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Amen.
You bring up a great point.
I mean, we do know who we areand we learn about ourselves
through relationship with otherpeople.
I don't think that we can havethe full spectrum of who we are.
If we just stayed a monk on themountain, could we have a great
life?
Yeah, could it be beautiful?
Yeah, can you touch God all thetime?
(34:23):
Yeah, it could be amazing,right.
But I would argue that it's notthe full spectrum of who you
are.
And we do learn about who we arein relationship with other
people Because, like you said,it's great when it's going great
, but who are you when it's notgoing great?
Who do you become when somebodydoesn't agree with you or they
bring up a different point, orthey don't say hello to you when
(34:45):
you're walking by, or you thinkyou don't like them?
Who are you then?
And in relationship with otherpeople, we also see what's
possible, and we did a wholeepisode on possibility and this
is like you could have a wholepodcast just on possibility or
on this topic of relationship.
But I wouldn't know what'spossible if I wasn't in
(35:06):
relationship with other people.
No way, this whole podcastwouldn't exist if we weren't in
relationship and I've grown somuch through it and so being in
relationship and I've grown somuch through it, and so being in
relationship at all levels, allthe levels of friendship,
whether it's situational or allthe way down to soul
(35:26):
relationships, there is theopportunity to learn about who
you are in any moment and expandyour possibility.
Because who was I when thatperson didn't really look at me
and say hello this morning?
Who was I?
Well, many years ago I wouldhave been the person who would
have tried to fix it or make itright or gone into my head about
(35:50):
it.
And now I'm just the personthat says, oh, that must he must
be unhappy today and I don'thave to judge him for it, and
it's okay if he doesn't like me.
There's been a lot that's goneinto how I would have reacted to
that in the past, and now it'slike lifetimes.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yes, there's real magic and skill in that, you
know, being able to say toyourself oh, maybe this person
is having a bad day, and myassumption is that you also had
a felt sense in some otherinformation where you could
deduce that because someonecould just not like us and they
could have be having the bestday.
(36:29):
That occurrence occurs as well,and you, brenda, just brought
up a great point about who arewe in relationship.
I thought about this podcastand you could have a podcast
alone.
I could have a podcast aloneand we would be sharing our
thoughts.
But in this podcast, right now,I want to point out that we're
(36:54):
talking about the exact.
We're showing and tellingexactly what we're talking about
being in relationship, talkingabout things growing as you go.
This is a great example of whatit looks like when it works,
like we have been able to createsomething much more superior
together than we would haveapart.
Much more superior together thanwe would have apart.
This is a great example of thatand I'm really excited and I
(37:18):
feel blessed by it, and I guessif it didn't work, we wouldn't
have had the podcast, because wedid connect way before for a
long time, deciphering anddeciding if this was a baby we
wanted to bring into the world.
Thankfully, we said yes andwe've had a great time doing it.
And in relationship with you,in connection, in friendship, I
(37:43):
definitely can see places whereI'm strong.
I definitely can see placeswhere I could use some work.
It's been a great mirror for me, both professionally and
non-professionally, and so Iwould say yeah, no, that's what
came up for me when you sharedthat.
I was like, oh, this, thispodcast, people witnessing us,
(38:06):
in conversation, in connection,both in friendship outside of
professionalism and inprofessionalism, we've been able
to grow and this connection hashelped us thrive in many areas
that without the connection itwould not have been available,
(38:27):
and it has required work 100%.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I think any relationship that has value
requires work.
It really does.
It takes investing, like wesaid on our last episode, coins
in the fountain.
You have to put coins in thefountain if you want to have a
relationship that works.
On all the different levels offriendship and I'm just going to
(38:50):
go back to this situation fromthis morning, even that one,
because it's part of mycommunity here, this person, and
so I will be seeing this person, so it matters to me.
Even though it might not be aclose friendship, it still
matters.
And I think one of thebeautiful things that we've
experienced on this podcast isreally how different we are.
(39:13):
I mean, if you're justlistening to the opening intro
of our podcast, sometimes Ilisten to it and I'm like, wow,
we are so different and we teacheach other so much, and this
podcast is so much moreinteresting than it would be if
we each had our own, because yousay things sometimes that I
wouldn't even think about, and Ithink the reverse is probably
(39:36):
true, which is why it works.
She's shaking her head so yes,and that's.
It's just an example ofrelationship, like you said,
catherine.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yes, I think that relationship is so important.
Choosing who we want to investour relationships and where we
want to invest our relationshipsis profound and inevitable.
We are human beings that aremeant to be like.
We're wired for a connectionand if we're only connecting
with people that are like us,we're sort of really closing
(40:07):
that possibility window becausewe don't get to polish the areas
of ourselves that get to berubbed in other friendships and
other relating circumstances.
At the end of the day, what I'mhoping this podcast has helped
people see is that there'snothing like being a person that
gets to be in relationship inthis lifetime to the best of
(40:29):
your ability, because it's justso rewarding.
Thank you so much, everyone forlistening.
It was great having you.
If this touched you in any way,shape or form, please DM us,
let us know and we love youUntil next time.
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