May 7, 2025 • 38 mins
Brenda and Catherine explore how that anxious inner hum - the persistent urge to do something – might actually be an invitation into stillness, not more action.
Brenda shares how her former need for order and perfectionism once kept her from being present with her kids. A pandemic moment of realizing “the dishes don’t have to be done today” shifted everything. Constant motion, she reflects, is often a way to avoid discomfort and deeper self-connection.
Catherine adds insight from her own pattern of trying to fix others as a way to escape her own unease. Whether through busyness or caretaking, both patterns reflect difficulty being with uncomfortable feelings.
They offers grounding practices like placing a hand where tension lives in the body, narrating sensations without judgment, and using calming phrases like “I am safe.” Catherine says, “You don’t learn to drive when you need to take someone to the hospital.” We build capacity in quieter moments so it’s there when we need it.
Whether you're someone who can't leave the dishes or someone who never does them, this episode invites you to shift your relationship with stillness – and discover freedom in simply being with yourself.
Episode Highlights:
- Anxiety often shows up as an urge to move, act, or fix
- Our overstimulated world feeds anxious tendencies and perfectionism
- Constant motion can block deeper connection with self and others
- Noticing, naming, and breathing into physical sensations helps regulate the nervous system
- Phrases like “I am safe” support grounding in the moment
- Regular embodiment practices build resilience for emotional challenges
- Healing comes not from avoiding discomfort, but allowing it with compassion
Let us know what resonates – we’d love to hear from you.
How did you like this episode? Tell us everything, we'd love to hear from you.
If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Welcome back.
(01:32):
Family, friends, listeners.
Brenda and I are excited to divein today into the wonderful
conversation around stillnessanxiety.
Why are they even on the samespectrum, isn't that so wild?
Like you can be still or youcan be anxious.
It sounds like they're both notthe greatest options, but they
(01:52):
do live sort of on the same lineand pendulum.
When you're really anxious,it's hard to be still, and one
of the reasons why you'reanxious is because you're not
still, and if you were still,you wouldn't be anxious.
It's like which one came first,the chicken or the egg.
So many things are in thebackground of that as well, like
(02:14):
anxiousness often and I'm goingto put aside the perimenopausal
and menopausal women becausethere is a hormonal component to
that, but when we're not, well,I guess other women could.
It's interesting, it just cameinto my mind Other women, you
might have a hormonal component.
Let's let me just use thatdisclaimer you might feel that
(02:36):
like jittery, that hum in yourbody of like there's something
to do.
There's something to do.
There's something to do.
There's something to do in yourphysical system.
Your nervous system is like go,go, go, do the thing Like, and
it might be hormonal, it couldalso be just part of survival.
So something is happening,potentially or not happening in
(03:00):
your life that is rubbingagainst either a goal or a
safety button and it's basicallyin the background, humming
inside of your nervous system,telling you to move, to do
something.
Act, take action.
That anxiousness, thatsensation in your body is saying
(03:20):
hey, move your butt is sayinghey, move your butt, get to
safety, go to what's comfortable.
I am uncomfortable.
Potentially, I am in outside ofmy comfort zone.
This can be hard to sit in.
It's also part of our personalgrowth path.
(03:40):
We will be doing things thatare not comfortable.
They're not comfortable becausethey're unknown.
They're an unknown skill,unknown habit, something that we
just don't know how to do.
So this is sort of like theoverall umbrella when we're
thinking about anxiety.
Am I anxious because there'ssomething I want to change in my
life?
(04:01):
So is it something like want tochange in my life?
So is it something like is thechange in front of me or out
yonder by the horizon, and I'mgoing towards it, or am I
already on top of it trying todo this and my body's like, ah,
I don't like it here.
This is uncomfortable, I haveto do new skills.
(04:21):
I don't know how to do newskills and I'm somehow feel like
I don't have the capacity forit or I feel incapable.
Is it only in my mind?
Am I anxious?
Because my mind is like I needto be safe, so I need to control
all these people, places,things and parts, so my brain is
trying to figure out all thepieces.
There could be differentlocations.
(04:42):
So stillness is pretty simple.
Right, we just stop moving, tryto stop thinking, potentially
with meditation or breathingexercises or yoga, like there
are some action oriented thingsthat you can do to try to be
still Savasana for all the yogisout there.
(05:03):
Nonetheless, it can have thissensation and this feeling in
our bodies and our mind that,hmm, this is hard.
I just want to do something.
I'd like to be moving becausethe forward movement of my body
and being in action makes mefeel like I'm doing something.
So I hope that feels juicy toyou, because that's what Brenda
(05:24):
and I will be talking abouttoday.
I'll be sharing what it hasfelt like for me for the most
part being unmarried, nochildren and the lovely Brenda
can bring in her gorgeousoutlook, right as being a lovely
mom of two that has done somuch.
When we look at and we try tonormal.
I would love for us tonormalize the struggle Like
(05:47):
there's nothing wrong with you,you're not broken right.
Like as humans, we're wired forstimulation and survival, like
we want to move and we want tobe safe.
Let's be honest I mean, I'mabout to toss this mic to Brenda
.
But let's be honest, brenda, weare definitely rewarded for
being busy, but how often are welike, oh, this person is so
(06:10):
productive and then in the backof our minds, thinking they must
be underneath a pile ofanxiousness?
Do you ever think that?
I know, I never think of itlike that.
I'm like, oh, they're soproductive, they're so amazing,
I want to do it, how they do it.
But it's really easy to look atsomebody over there and be like
I want that or that looks socool, and not think about the
(06:33):
cost of that, like the cost ofalways being on the go.
Thank you for that beautifulintro.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I actually think about the cost of being on the
go quite a bit, because since Ileft my we'll call it a
corporate job, I was in teachingand education for 22 years and
now I have my own business.
I just traveled across thecountry and so my schedule is
different.
I create it to a certain extent, and when I look at people who
(07:01):
are working a nine to five and Isee busy moms in the street you
know, pushing the carriages andfood shopping, holding a kid on
one hand, and I remember thosedays and I think, wow, I just
remember the feeling of that andhow overwhelming it was.
It's so overwhelming when youhave so much to do and you feel
(07:24):
like there's so little time andno matter what you do you just
there's just not enough time inthe day.
So that took a really big hitto my system, that that was very
expensive to me energeticallyand I don't want that life
anymore.
That's partly why I left it.
I think I took it as far as Icould go and for me it was
(07:52):
overriding my body and my systemso much that that was just
actually the norm and I didn'teven know what I was doing.
And I don't think we use theword anxious or anxiety so much
back then.
I think that's more of acurrent term that we use and I
don't know that I've ever reallybeen a super anxious person.
But I will say that the cost ofbeing on the move all the time
and being busy well, maybe not24 seven, because I did sleep
(08:14):
it's expensive, you know, and Iwill say that there's a lot of
times that I was going throughthe motions of things, but not
necessarily present, not aspresent as I would like to be,
and looking back I'm thinking,wow, the most important thing is
(08:34):
being present, especially as amother of grown children.
I think I was present a lot ofthe time.
But looking back I'm like, oh,wow, I wish I was even more
present, wish I was even morepresent, because the years are
so fleeting and they're justgone and what seems overwhelming
in the day to day, there's somuch to do.
You're on the move all the time, you're always doing things.
(08:55):
It feels like it's endless.
And then here it is.
Here I am sitting herepodcasting with you, catherine,
on a Monday afternoon, and I'mlike, wow, all those years are
gone, they're in the past.
And so I'm like, wow, I reallywould have been more present had
I been able to, and there's alot of things that take our
(09:18):
attention when you're talkingabout what causes anxiety and
why we're anxious, and back thenwhat I'm talking about, we
didn't even have the internetuntil my kids were, say, in
middle school.
I didn't even have a phone thatI was on all the time, a
smartphone that had basically acomputer.
I think we have so muchinformation coming in right now
(09:42):
these days because of oursmartphones.
I think it's really unnaturalthe amount of information that
we have coming into us.
It's really anxiety producingto have all this information
coming into us.
There's always something to doand there's always something to
click or look at or research orlook up.
And now everyone's into chat,gpt.
(10:04):
It's just unnatural and itproduces a lot of anxiety
because there's not a lot ofstillness anymore and we have
our phones with us 24, seven.
Wherever we go, we have ourphones.
So I know I've been personallytrying to put my phone down and
go on walks or go out with myfriends and not look at the
phone at all, just to work withthis one piece that I'm pointing
(10:26):
to, which is too muchinformation coming in that our
human bodies don't actually havethe capacity for.
It's not natural for us to knowwhat's happening in every
country around the world andwhat my middle school best
friend ate for lunch yesterday.
That's not natural for me toprocess all of that information.
(10:47):
So and people are more anxiousthan ever.
I think we can pretty muchagree with that.
So I think that this hassomething to do with it.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Any thoughts on that.
I actually want to circle backto something that you said.
You said you know the yearswere so fleeting and when you
think back to the time with yourchildren, like you would have
loved to be more present,because now you're like, oh,
those times are gone.
What would have had to bedifferent for you back then in
(11:16):
order to do that, and what doyou think the reward of doing
that would have been?
I know this is in hindsight andthis is all theoretical, but
indulge me.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I'll indulge you.
That's such a great question.
What would have had to bedifferent for me to be more
present?
And I want to state that Ibelieve that I was really
present.
I was as present as I couldpossibly be with the
consciousness level that I had.
I was very perfectionistic and Ithink a lot of moms are really
(11:47):
perfectionistic, and a lot ofpeople, not just moms so I had a
feeling internally that I hadto have things a certain way.
I had to keep the kitchen clean, I had to do all the laundry
and these things do need to getdone but I would have had to
here it is, I would have had tobe willing to live with a more
(12:08):
of a sense of mess than what Iwas willing to live with,
because maybe while I wasplaying with my kids, I might've
been folding laundry or makingdinner, or maybe I didn't have
time for those things.
I was like oh, I can only playwith you for X amount of time
because I have these things todo, because I had an idea of how
(12:28):
it needed to be.
The mess made me really anxious, so I didn't have phones back
then, but I had a mess and themess really did upset me.
It upset my system, especiallyin a life when I had two kids
running around and so much isout of control.
When I had two kids runningaround and so much is out of
control.
You can't control anything whenyou have two kids going around.
(12:49):
I had a lot of routines and alot of structure, but even still
still out of control.
You don't even know if you'regoing to get a good night's
sleep.
Plus, I was teaching and I hada hundred students during the
day.
So I think I would have had tobe willing to live with a higher
level of mess than I waswilling to live with.
I didn't even know that existed.
(13:10):
I didn't even know, because mybody is just coded.
You keep things a certain way.
This is what I knew and that'swhat I did.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
And what was the other question?
Well, now I want to knowsomething else.
Do you feel that the woman youare today would be able to live
with that level of mess?
And there's no right or wronganswer, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Such a good question.
100%, I really do.
Okay, here's a big lesson thatI learned during the pandemic.
This is going to be so funny tosome of you out there listening
.
You're going to be like duhBrenda.
We knew this lifetimes ago.
Ready, you don't have to washthe dishes today, you could let
(14:00):
the dishes sit in the sink.
You don't even have to load thedishwasher and you also don't
have to empty it.
You could just let it sit.
That sounds crazy, but I justalways thought you had to always
keep it clean and you have tokeep the dishes moving in this
(14:20):
perfectionistic kind of way.
And now, instead of externallyhaving things be perfect, which
is the way I used to be, now Ireally focus internally what
does my body need?
What do I actually have thecapacity for?
And let's do that.
(14:41):
So if I am exhausted, I don'tcare.
There could be dishes in thesink.
I'm going to put my body and mycapacity first and I'm going to
sit down and rest, and maybethe dishes won't get done until
tomorrow.
Now some people have theopposite problem and maybe they
just need to do the dishes, butfor me, I needed to learn to
leave.
The dishes won't get done tilltomorrow.
Now some people have theopposite problem and maybe they
just need to do the dishes, butfor me, I needed to learn to
leave the dishes in the sink.
Does that answer your question?
(15:01):
It?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
answers my question.
So it's sort of what you'resaying today the you would be
able to leave the dishes in thesink.
It wouldn't cause the same sortof like urge to move or anxiety
that it's there and it's notgetting done.
You'd be able to potentiallyplay with the kids and you also
touched on.
For other people it might bethe opposite, right, so for
(15:24):
others it could feel or looklike something else.
The thing that comes to mindfor me is oh, where is the
discomfort?
We're sort of circling to thatplace when we think of anxiety
or overwhelm.
There's a place where we're notcomfortable and so we want to
(15:45):
do things.
So, brenda, you're talkingabout the discomfort that things
don't look a certain way inorder for you to do X, y or Z,
and so you would be able to dothat.
The you today would be able todo that, which is actually
pretty beautiful.
I'm assuming you tell yourclients often to leave the
(16:06):
dishes in the sink.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Definitely.
And it's a metaphor, it's notjust about dishes, it's about
everything, right, it's justabout literally everything.
And, yeah, can you just sitwith the mess?
Because my mind couldn't let itgo.
My mind couldn't let it go thatsomething needed to get done
and it was just physicallyuncomfortable in my body.
(16:31):
The mess created a sensation inmy body like discomfort, like
things are out of place, and Ineeded things to be in place in
order to feel okay.
And that's a trap.
It's a trap because things arealways going to be out of place.
There's always especially if youhave kids at home there's
always laundry to do, there'salways something to clean up,
(16:52):
there's always a meal to be made, there's always a fight to
break up.
If you have multiple kids,there's always something to
clean up, there's always a mealto be made.
There's always a fight to breakup.
If you have multiple kids,there's always something going
on.
So if that's external, if youneed the external to be a
certain way to feel okay, you'rekind of in trouble because
you're always going to beputting out fires.
So the alternate is taking careof yourself and just working
(17:14):
with your mind.
Now I'm like, okay, my mindnotices, okay, there's a mess
over there and I'm dealing withthis right now because I just
moved locations.
I just, from my cross countrytrip, landed back at my lake and
I'm redoing my room and mycloset isn't organized.
I don't have anything in mycloset yet to hold my stuff and
(17:34):
I have a big pile of stuffeverywhere, super uncomfortable,
but I'm able to just sit withand be with're talking about
which is you just did it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You just noticed like , oh, here you are in your room
and you're saying this.
My closet is is not organized.
I have a pile of stuff and thatsomewhat could be a metaphor.
The pile of stuff could be Ihaven't done my taxes
(18:35):
no-transcript.
The reason why I'm wanting togo slower is that these things
can cause anxiety in our systembecause it's not comfortable.
It's not like you walked intothis hotel room and it was
cleaned for you and you havethese clean sheets and all you
need to do is go to bed.
I love staying in hotelsbecause everything is done and
(18:56):
there's like room service andhousekeeping and that sort of
thing.
In real life, there are things.
No matter how wealthy you areto be able to delegate most of
it, there's still a certainamount of life that needs to be
lifed.
People aren't with you unlessyou have a butler like 24 seven.
There are still things that aresort of like on the docket in
(19:19):
the back of your mind.
Somewhere there's a compartmentof like this needs to get done
or this needs to be addressed.
Maybe you want to make moremoney, or maybe you're deciding
whether or not you're staying inthis relationship, or maybe
there's a friendshipconversation that needs to be
had.
Or maybe somebody crossed yourboundaries and you're like oh
(19:39):
yes, I need to implement thatconsequence and these things
cause that.
In the system that I was talkingabout earlier today, I was
going to say yesterday it feelslike yesterday, but not at the
beginning of the podcast there'sthat natural hum and buzzing of
do something about this.
And what Brenda so gorgeouslyspoke about just a few seconds
(20:01):
ago it's not that that dosomething about this goes away,
it's a noticing.
Oh yes, I'm hearing inside mymind.
My mind is telling me you needto do something about this,
telling me you need to dosomething about this.
And it's a friendly suggestionfrom that lizard brain that's
(20:22):
like fix your environment so Icould be comfortable, so I could
feel safe, I could feel like Ibelong, I feel loved.
And you can say to yourselftake a deep breath, exhale,
potentially even hug yourselfand just say I am safe, I am
loved, I'm okay, I belong.
I'm not being exiled if Ididn't do the dishes, not being
(20:43):
exiled if I didn't do my taxes,like, maybe I have to pay a fine
, but nobody dies, I'm notbroken because I didn't get it
done Right.
It's not to ignore it andbecome a hoarder or something
like that.
That's not the spot.
That's not the answer.
(21:05):
The answer is to notice the tugfor you to be in action versus
to be in stillness, if stillnessis what you need and stillness
is what is needed when there isanxiousness, because it means
there's too much input, asBrenda was talking about earlier
, like there's so muchinformation that it's unnatural,
(21:25):
as she stated I'm justrephrasing what she said before
and we need to just reconnectwith ourselves, and that occurs
in stillness when there is noother input.
We have been doing thisfriendship relationship series
and when I think of stillness, Ithink of putting time into the
(21:49):
most important relationship inyour life, which is your
relationship with you, becauseyou take you everywhere.
We also recorded recently onhow important it is to be in
connection with other and it isimportant to have a relationship
with your dishes, with yourclothes, with your home, to be
in relationship with it.
(22:10):
So there's something to be done.
You are in response, you'resort of in this dance.
It doesn't have to feel likeyou are in a prison, you don't
have to be in an urgencyresponse with it.
You can be in relationship withit In the noticing.
(22:32):
Oh, I could really feel thisdiscomfort.
It's really hard for me to bestill knowing that I have to do
all of these things.
How can I stay with myself, notabandon myself?
And this could just be like 30seconds of stillness.
You know, it could be just yousaying to yourself how many
inhales and how many exhales canI do before I can actually feel
(22:55):
myself land in this seat orland in my feet before I take
the next step?
I see Brenda shaking her head.
What are you thinking about?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You really nailed it when you said being in
relationship with it.
It's the only way to movethrough it is being in
relationship with it, and thepractice you offered was
absolutely gorgeous, becausethat is how I worked with it,
cause you don't go from thedishes are driving me crazy to
the dishes.
(23:26):
Don't drive me crazy.
It's not a jump like that.
There's something in the middleand the spot in the middle is
sitting with the discomfort andjust noticing it.
And so for me, since we weretalking about my example before,
how did I get through that?
How did I change it?
So many things, but one thingwas noticing it, and my
meditation practice had a lot todo with it, and so did my
(23:49):
sensation practice, my somatics,just noticing what is happening
in my body.
Where am I feeling sensation?
And instead of jumping up to dothe dishes or the taxes or call
the person that I didn't call,whatever the thing is sitting
with the discomfort and noticingwhere my body am I feeling
(24:11):
discomfort?
And even just putting my handsthere and noticing discomfort,
and even just putting my handsthere and noticing taking a deep
breath, I am feeling a lot ofmovement in my belly right now.
I am feeling tightening in mychest, just narrating to
yourself.
(24:31):
I see the dishes over there.
I really want to jump up andclean them.
I feel like I should get up andclean them.
It's okay that I'm not going toget up and clean them.
I am safe, I am safe and I amwell and those dishes are going
to get done and I don't need toget up and do them right now to
be okay.
And I had to do that a lot oftimes and then really notice
(24:56):
that I'm not going to get up andclean them and unravel.
That piece of something in myprimal brain feels unsafe if
there's a mess, right.
This is a pattern that I pickedup just from childhood and this
is a very common thing.
And no, I am safe and it took alot of time for me to sit with
(25:19):
that and unravel that.
And now I'm like all right, Ibetter get up and do the dishes
Now.
I'm so used to them sittingaround.
But that feels great, feelsgreat.
And I do notice it and I dolaugh at myself sometimes.
Oh wow, look at that, look atthat.
I left the counter messy.
This is great.
It's great to just get to theother side of it and be okay
(25:42):
with it.
So you really nailed it whenyou said being in relationship
with it and really sitting withit, because we hot potato things
.
Very often we hot potato things.
We want to get up and get ridof this feeling.
But that's the trap that I wastalking about before.
If we're always moving to getrid of this feeling by doing
(26:03):
something, we're just alwaysstuck in that cycle and there's
times to do things.
You know, there's times thatyou do need to do your taxes,
there are times where you needto call your mother, there's
times where you need to have aconversation that's
uncomfortable.
We're not saying to avoid that,but we're saying the piece
(26:24):
where you're like, oh God, Ineed to clean this up or do this
thing, because I'm souncomfortable right now I can't
even stand it, I can't be withmyself.
The point is being withyourself, learning to cultivate
that relationship with yourselfwhere you feel good.
We're supposed to feel good inour bodies, we're supposed to
(26:48):
feel good in our life, and sohow do we cultivate that?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Well, yes, we're supposed to feel good in our
bodies, we're supposed to feelgood in our life, and what we're
pointing to is like what'shappening when it doesn't feel
good, when it's like unbearableto be in that stillness.
You've used the example ofdishes right Of, like how that
could be anxiety inducing, howyou want the house to look in a
particular way and what comes tomind.
(27:16):
For me, one of the things thatwas very anxiety inducing was
when I would hear people tellingme about a problem.
What they have in my head I hadthe solution.
I know how to fix this trainwreck.
Or I see two other two peopletalking.
I'm experiencing them talk sortof there, but not really in the
(27:36):
conversation, and I think oneperson is giving somebody else
bad advice, but nobody asked mefor my opinion.
So there's a desire in me like Iwant to interject, I want to be
the person, like I want to helphere, I want to say my part,
and then I feel that slow buzzor the revving of that buzz in
(27:58):
my body, like say it, say it,say it.
And I come from the side of thecoin that I used to say my
thoughts all the time and likepeople don't need to know all my
thoughts.
I get to share it when it'sappropriate.
And I had to learn how to bewith the discomfort of keeping
(28:19):
my mouth shut.
Like people don't need to knoweverything that I have to say or
think.
Like not everybody's a client,I don't have to interject, not
everybody's a loved one, becausethere's a cost right In sharing
.
There's a cost in being insideof something.
There's a cost of interjecting,especially when I'm
(28:40):
interjecting because I have thatsensation in my body.
Once I started to be inrelationship with it I was like,
oh, this is not the time,because something's working in
the background.
I can feel the discomfort in mybody, so I need to pause here
(29:01):
instead of contributing mythoughts and my feelings and my
sensations.
So anxiousness could occur withyou in relationship to dishes,
with you in relationship withother, with you in relationship
to your own opinions or your ownexperience of life, and with
you and your desire to share indifferent ways with you and your
(29:23):
desire to share in differentways.
And I noticed during thosetimes that when I shared, when I
was in that space, it wasn'talways welcome.
And it makes sense to me nowbecause the energy behind it was
unclean.
I don't mean it was bad,negative or came from demons or
(29:45):
the devil or anything like that.
It just wasn't dirty like itwas in the mud.
But it was coming from me and Iwasn't regulated at the time.
That's the way to describe it.
It was not clean because I wasin some way, shape or form
dysregulated when I was sharing.
And yes, we've talked aboutthis many times we heal in
(30:08):
connection and so being inrelationship with that sensation
is part of healing inconnection.
If I wasn't witnessing otherpeople in their train wreck or
in their conversations or intheir advice, I wouldn't have
the opportunity to be in mydiscomfort.
I wouldn't have the opportunityto be in my discomfort.
I wouldn't have the opportunityto just be still with my
(30:28):
thoughts and my discomforts andjust be with it, like there was
nothing that had to be said,nothing that had to be done.
I am God's spark, and so iseverybody else, and I can trust
the God in them and they canjust find their way.
I don't have to contribute.
It's an opportunity.
Just find their way.
I don't have to contribute.
It's an opportunity.
And I also see the way theuniversal intelligence weaves in
(30:48):
like it doesn't have to be doneby me, I can trust that it will
be done and done by someoneelse.
Not quite the same with dishes,because we can't really look at
dishes and say it will be doneby Godspark.
It is somewhat different.
There are things that we needto put effort in in our
environment, but there's a placeto heal that.
(31:12):
When we're doing it fromanxiousness, because we want to
feel different, we want adifferent state, because the
carrot here is, if you're alwaysdoing things so you could feel
comfortable and safe in yourspace, you don't get to
(31:32):
experience what it feels like tojust be in discomfort long
enough to learn who you are inthat discomfort and be able to
move past it.
And Brenda talked about thisslightly, about the other side
of that coin for people who areused to just leaving things like
, oh, I don't need, I'm going todo that later, I'm going to do
(31:53):
that later, I'm going to do thatlater and the dishes are never
getting done and the clothes isnever getting folded and the
taxes are never getting done.
That's a different spot.
But I don't think that thepeople who are not moving are
actually sitting in theirdiscomfort.
That is their comfort zone.
The discomfort would be to moveand go do the thing as fast as
(32:15):
possible.
And for you, the listener, youget to decide which one are you.
Are you the one that it'suncomfortable to leave the
dishes, or it's uncomfortable todo the dishes Because we all
have different lessons and soit's.
How can I be value neutral andI'm doing the dishes because
they need to get done, but notbecause I'm uncomfortable
(32:39):
because they're not done, or I'muncomfortable because I have to
do them?
It can just be, I'm just doingthe dishes and that's ultimately
what we're looking for.
That is what heals that part ofthe anxiety.
The anxiousness comes fromoverstimulation and our need for
things to be a certain way, andthat's where that anxiety purr
(33:02):
starts to happen in the body.
I love how Brenda talked aboutlike just putting your hand in
certain places.
I often, when I was working onmy heart opening, would just put
my hand on my heart, often justlike oh, my chest feels tight,
it's difficult to take a deepbreath, and can I just be with
(33:23):
myself and work with my breathuntil I can take a deep breath?
Often it would be two, threeminutes, not two or three hours,
but it could feel like it's twoor three minutes.
It could feel like it's alifetime of connecting with
yourself.
It's often just a few seconds.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, two or three minutes of a practice can go a
really long way, cause, like yousaid in your story, was is
learning how to take the pause,learning how to take the pause
and using that pause really well, and that's why the thing I
wanted to share, also to add tothis conversation, is getting
out of the mind and getting intothe body.
(34:00):
Is is really the nugget here,and paralleled with that is
having some practices that youcan go to to work with this part
of yourself.
So you can't always talkyourself out of anxiety.
Sometimes you just actuallyneed to completely pivot.
You can sit with the practicesthat we've talked about.
(34:20):
Like you said, you noticed ohmy, I don't need to contribute
here.
I can take the pause, I couldsit with this as comfort, you
notice the cost and then youchange the behavior over time.
What I'm pointing to is havingsome practices that you can go
to so that when you're feelinganxious, you don't have to sit
(34:42):
and stew in this discomfort.
This is why we go to, so thatwhen you're feeling anxious, you
don't have to sit and stew inthis discomfort.
This is why we go to yoga, thisis why we do meditation, this
is why we do breathing exercisesor taking a walk, or spending
time in nature or going to thegym, whatever the practice is
that you do.
This is why we do them, so thatwhen the shit hits the fan,
(35:06):
when we're feeling anxious,we're not sitting there going.
Oh my God, what do I do now?
This is what your practices arefor.
You're having a really hard time, you're feeling really anxious?
Go to a yoga class, go take awalk, do a writing practice or
do one of the things that wetalked about putting your hand
on your heart, noticing thesensations in your body.
(35:28):
This is why we practice so thatwhen we need it, we have a
fallback, we have something togo to, and that has been an
absolute lifesaver for me,because sometimes, when the shit
hits the fan and your mind isspinning, that is not the time
to say, oh, I need to find ayoga studio or I need a yoga mat
(35:49):
.
You have these things in place,and this is why we say take
care of yourself, have somepractices that you can build so
you can go to them, you can fallback on them when you need.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
You're making me think of, like what it would be
like if you don't know how todrive and you're like, oh, I
need to get over there, I needto get, grab the keys and grab
the car, Like no, that's notwhen you learn how to drive.
You don't learn how to drivewhen you need to take somebody
to the hospital or when you havean emergency or something
urgent.
You learn how to drive the carbeforehand and now you'd have
the skill, you have a driver'slicense and that's when
(36:23):
something happens you have totake somebody.
That's somewhere you then areable more than able to move the
car.
So, likewise, when we have toheal because of potentially, we
have anxiousness because ourbody's telling us to do
something or our body's tellingus to avoid something.
Either way, the noise issomewhat the same in the
(36:44):
physical nervous system, whereit feels like you have test
tightening, test test chesttightening and difficulty taking
a deep breath.
Ultimately, we want to be ableto heal what the constant
movement avoids, or heal whatour non-movement is trying to
(37:05):
avoid, and we're only going tobe with that if we can pause and
be in relationship withourselves and the discomfort.
There is no leap to the otherside.
Like you said before, there isa noticing step.
We really wanted to bring thisforward today to talk to
everyone about anxiousness,anxiety and what this like purr
(37:29):
in the body, this purring in thebody to move or not move, or
what it feels like in thatlittle crevice corner of
anxiousness, whether it'shormonal, environmental,
circumstantial, it's still anopportunity for you to learn how
(37:49):
to be with you.
Hopefully, some of oursuggestions today brought you a
little clarity, brought you alittle closer to yourself.
That's our goal with thisparticular episode.
We love you so much.
We can't wait to see you again.
It's a wrap.
Bye for now.
(38:14):
Thank you for joining us on theDesire is Medicine podcast
Desire invites us to be honest,loving and deeply intimate with
ourselves and others.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Welcome back.
(01:32):
Family, friends, listeners.
Brenda and I are excited to divein today into the wonderful
conversation around stillnessanxiety.
Why are they even on the samespectrum, isn't that so wild?
Like you can be still or youcan be anxious.
It sounds like they're both notthe greatest options, but they
(01:52):
do live sort of on the same lineand pendulum.
When you're really anxious,it's hard to be still, and one
of the reasons why you'reanxious is because you're not
still, and if you were still,you wouldn't be anxious.
It's like which one came first,the chicken or the egg.
So many things are in thebackground of that as well, like
(02:14):
anxiousness often and I'm goingto put aside the perimenopausal
and menopausal women becausethere is a hormonal component to
that, but when we're not, well,I guess other women could.
It's interesting, it just cameinto my mind Other women, you
might have a hormonal component.
Let's let me just use thatdisclaimer you might feel that
(02:36):
like jittery, that hum in yourbody of like there's something
to do.
There's something to do.
There's something to do.
There's something to do in yourphysical system.
Your nervous system is like go,go, go, do the thing Like, and
it might be hormonal, it couldalso be just part of survival.
So something is happening,potentially or not happening in
(03:00):
your life that is rubbingagainst either a goal or a
safety button and it's basicallyin the background, humming
inside of your nervous system,telling you to move, to do
something.
Act, take action.
That anxiousness, thatsensation in your body is saying
(03:20):
hey, move your butt is sayinghey, move your butt, get to
safety, go to what's comfortable.
I am uncomfortable.
Potentially, I am in outside ofmy comfort zone.
This can be hard to sit in.
It's also part of our personalgrowth path.
(03:40):
We will be doing things thatare not comfortable.
They're not comfortable becausethey're unknown.
They're an unknown skill,unknown habit, something that we
just don't know how to do.
So this is sort of like theoverall umbrella when we're
thinking about anxiety.
Am I anxious because there'ssomething I want to change in my
life?
(04:01):
So is it something like want tochange in my life?
So is it something like is thechange in front of me or out
yonder by the horizon, and I'mgoing towards it, or am I
already on top of it trying todo this and my body's like, ah,
I don't like it here.
This is uncomfortable, I haveto do new skills.
(04:21):
I don't know how to do newskills and I'm somehow feel like
I don't have the capacity forit or I feel incapable.
Is it only in my mind?
Am I anxious?
Because my mind is like I needto be safe, so I need to control
all these people, places,things and parts, so my brain is
trying to figure out all thepieces.
There could be differentlocations.
(04:42):
So stillness is pretty simple.
Right, we just stop moving, tryto stop thinking, potentially
with meditation or breathingexercises or yoga, like there
are some action oriented thingsthat you can do to try to be
still Savasana for all the yogisout there.
(05:03):
Nonetheless, it can have thissensation and this feeling in
our bodies and our mind that,hmm, this is hard.
I just want to do something.
I'd like to be moving becausethe forward movement of my body
and being in action makes mefeel like I'm doing something.
So I hope that feels juicy toyou, because that's what Brenda
(05:24):
and I will be talking abouttoday.
I'll be sharing what it hasfelt like for me for the most
part being unmarried, nochildren and the lovely Brenda
can bring in her gorgeousoutlook, right as being a lovely
mom of two that has done somuch.
When we look at and we try tonormal.
I would love for us tonormalize the struggle Like
(05:47):
there's nothing wrong with you,you're not broken right.
Like as humans, we're wired forstimulation and survival, like
we want to move and we want tobe safe.
Let's be honest I mean, I'mabout to toss this mic to Brenda
.
But let's be honest, brenda, weare definitely rewarded for
being busy, but how often are welike, oh, this person is so
(06:10):
productive and then in the backof our minds, thinking they must
be underneath a pile ofanxiousness?
Do you ever think that?
I know, I never think of itlike that.
I'm like, oh, they're soproductive, they're so amazing,
I want to do it, how they do it.
But it's really easy to look atsomebody over there and be like
I want that or that looks socool, and not think about the
(06:33):
cost of that, like the cost ofalways being on the go.
Thank you for that beautifulintro.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I actually think about the cost of being on the
go quite a bit, because since Ileft my we'll call it a
corporate job, I was in teachingand education for 22 years and
now I have my own business.
I just traveled across thecountry and so my schedule is
different.
I create it to a certain extent, and when I look at people who
(07:01):
are working a nine to five and Isee busy moms in the street you
know, pushing the carriages andfood shopping, holding a kid on
one hand, and I remember thosedays and I think, wow, I just
remember the feeling of that andhow overwhelming it was.
It's so overwhelming when youhave so much to do and you feel
(07:24):
like there's so little time andno matter what you do you just
there's just not enough time inthe day.
So that took a really big hitto my system, that that was very
expensive to me energeticallyand I don't want that life
anymore.
That's partly why I left it.
I think I took it as far as Icould go and for me it was
(07:52):
overriding my body and my systemso much that that was just
actually the norm and I didn'teven know what I was doing.
And I don't think we use theword anxious or anxiety so much
back then.
I think that's more of acurrent term that we use and I
don't know that I've ever reallybeen a super anxious person.
But I will say that the cost ofbeing on the move all the time
and being busy well, maybe not24 seven, because I did sleep
(08:14):
it's expensive, you know, and Iwill say that there's a lot of
times that I was going throughthe motions of things, but not
necessarily present, not aspresent as I would like to be,
and looking back I'm thinking,wow, the most important thing is
(08:34):
being present, especially as amother of grown children.
I think I was present a lot ofthe time.
But looking back I'm like, oh,wow, I wish I was even more
present, wish I was even morepresent, because the years are
so fleeting and they're justgone and what seems overwhelming
in the day to day, there's somuch to do.
You're on the move all the time, you're always doing things.
(08:55):
It feels like it's endless.
And then here it is.
Here I am sitting herepodcasting with you, catherine,
on a Monday afternoon, and I'mlike, wow, all those years are
gone, they're in the past.
And so I'm like, wow, I reallywould have been more present had
I been able to, and there's alot of things that take our
(09:18):
attention when you're talkingabout what causes anxiety and
why we're anxious, and back thenwhat I'm talking about, we
didn't even have the internetuntil my kids were, say, in
middle school.
I didn't even have a phone thatI was on all the time, a
smartphone that had basically acomputer.
I think we have so muchinformation coming in right now
(09:42):
these days because of oursmartphones.
I think it's really unnaturalthe amount of information that
we have coming into us.
It's really anxiety producingto have all this information
coming into us.
There's always something to doand there's always something to
click or look at or research orlook up.
And now everyone's into chat,gpt.
(10:04):
It's just unnatural and itproduces a lot of anxiety
because there's not a lot ofstillness anymore and we have
our phones with us 24, seven.
Wherever we go, we have ourphones.
So I know I've been personallytrying to put my phone down and
go on walks or go out with myfriends and not look at the
phone at all, just to work withthis one piece that I'm pointing
(10:26):
to, which is too muchinformation coming in that our
human bodies don't actually havethe capacity for.
It's not natural for us to knowwhat's happening in every
country around the world andwhat my middle school best
friend ate for lunch yesterday.
That's not natural for me toprocess all of that information.
(10:47):
So and people are more anxiousthan ever.
I think we can pretty muchagree with that.
So I think that this hassomething to do with it.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Any thoughts on that.
I actually want to circle backto something that you said.
You said you know the yearswere so fleeting and when you
think back to the time with yourchildren, like you would have
loved to be more present,because now you're like, oh,
those times are gone.
What would have had to bedifferent for you back then in
(11:16):
order to do that, and what doyou think the reward of doing
that would have been?
I know this is in hindsight andthis is all theoretical, but
indulge me.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I'll indulge you.
That's such a great question.
What would have had to bedifferent for me to be more
present?
And I want to state that Ibelieve that I was really
present.
I was as present as I couldpossibly be with the
consciousness level that I had.
I was very perfectionistic and Ithink a lot of moms are really
(11:47):
perfectionistic, and a lot ofpeople, not just moms so I had a
feeling internally that I hadto have things a certain way.
I had to keep the kitchen clean, I had to do all the laundry
and these things do need to getdone but I would have had to
here it is, I would have had tobe willing to live with a more
(12:08):
of a sense of mess than what Iwas willing to live with,
because maybe while I wasplaying with my kids, I might've
been folding laundry or makingdinner, or maybe I didn't have
time for those things.
I was like oh, I can only playwith you for X amount of time
because I have these things todo, because I had an idea of how
(12:28):
it needed to be.
The mess made me really anxious, so I didn't have phones back
then, but I had a mess and themess really did upset me.
It upset my system, especiallyin a life when I had two kids
running around and so much isout of control.
When I had two kids runningaround and so much is out of
control.
You can't control anything whenyou have two kids going around.
(12:49):
I had a lot of routines and alot of structure, but even still
still out of control.
You don't even know if you'regoing to get a good night's
sleep.
Plus, I was teaching and I hada hundred students during the
day.
So I think I would have had tobe willing to live with a higher
level of mess than I waswilling to live with.
I didn't even know that existed.
(13:10):
I didn't even know, because mybody is just coded.
You keep things a certain way.
This is what I knew and that'swhat I did.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
And what was the other question?
Well, now I want to knowsomething else.
Do you feel that the woman youare today would be able to live
with that level of mess?
And there's no right or wronganswer, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Such a good question.
100%, I really do.
Okay, here's a big lesson thatI learned during the pandemic.
This is going to be so funny tosome of you out there listening
.
You're going to be like duhBrenda.
We knew this lifetimes ago.
Ready, you don't have to washthe dishes today, you could let
(14:00):
the dishes sit in the sink.
You don't even have to load thedishwasher and you also don't
have to empty it.
You could just let it sit.
That sounds crazy, but I justalways thought you had to always
keep it clean and you have tokeep the dishes moving in this
(14:20):
perfectionistic kind of way.
And now, instead of externallyhaving things be perfect, which
is the way I used to be, now Ireally focus internally what
does my body need?
What do I actually have thecapacity for?
And let's do that.
(14:41):
So if I am exhausted, I don'tcare.
There could be dishes in thesink.
I'm going to put my body and mycapacity first and I'm going to
sit down and rest, and maybethe dishes won't get done until
tomorrow.
Now some people have theopposite problem and maybe they
just need to do the dishes, butfor me, I needed to learn to
leave.
The dishes won't get done tilltomorrow.
Now some people have theopposite problem and maybe they
just need to do the dishes, butfor me, I needed to learn to
leave the dishes in the sink.
Does that answer your question?
(15:01):
It?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
answers my question.
So it's sort of what you'resaying today the you would be
able to leave the dishes in thesink.
It wouldn't cause the same sortof like urge to move or anxiety
that it's there and it's notgetting done.
You'd be able to potentiallyplay with the kids and you also
touched on.
For other people it might bethe opposite, right, so for
(15:24):
others it could feel or looklike something else.
The thing that comes to mindfor me is oh, where is the
discomfort?
We're sort of circling to thatplace when we think of anxiety
or overwhelm.
There's a place where we're notcomfortable and so we want to
(15:45):
do things.
So, brenda, you're talkingabout the discomfort that things
don't look a certain way inorder for you to do X, y or Z,
and so you would be able to dothat.
The you today would be able todo that, which is actually
pretty beautiful.
I'm assuming you tell yourclients often to leave the
(16:06):
dishes in the sink.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Definitely.
And it's a metaphor, it's notjust about dishes, it's about
everything, right, it's justabout literally everything.
And, yeah, can you just sitwith the mess?
Because my mind couldn't let itgo.
My mind couldn't let it go thatsomething needed to get done
and it was just physicallyuncomfortable in my body.
(16:31):
The mess created a sensation inmy body like discomfort, like
things are out of place, and Ineeded things to be in place in
order to feel okay.
And that's a trap.
It's a trap because things arealways going to be out of place.
There's always especially if youhave kids at home there's
always laundry to do, there'salways something to clean up,
(16:52):
there's always a meal to be made, there's always a fight to
break up.
If you have multiple kids,there's always something to
clean up, there's always a mealto be made.
There's always a fight to breakup.
If you have multiple kids,there's always something going
on.
So if that's external, if youneed the external to be a
certain way to feel okay, you'rekind of in trouble because
you're always going to beputting out fires.
So the alternate is taking careof yourself and just working
(17:14):
with your mind.
Now I'm like, okay, my mindnotices, okay, there's a mess
over there and I'm dealing withthis right now because I just
moved locations.
I just, from my cross countrytrip, landed back at my lake and
I'm redoing my room and mycloset isn't organized.
I don't have anything in mycloset yet to hold my stuff and
(17:34):
I have a big pile of stuffeverywhere, super uncomfortable,
but I'm able to just sit withand be with're talking about
which is you just did it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You just noticed like , oh, here you are in your room
and you're saying this.
My closet is is not organized.
I have a pile of stuff and thatsomewhat could be a metaphor.
The pile of stuff could be Ihaven't done my taxes
(18:35):
no-transcript.
The reason why I'm wanting togo slower is that these things
can cause anxiety in our systembecause it's not comfortable.
It's not like you walked intothis hotel room and it was
cleaned for you and you havethese clean sheets and all you
need to do is go to bed.
I love staying in hotelsbecause everything is done and
(18:56):
there's like room service andhousekeeping and that sort of
thing.
In real life, there are things.
No matter how wealthy you areto be able to delegate most of
it, there's still a certainamount of life that needs to be
lifed.
People aren't with you unlessyou have a butler like 24 seven.
There are still things that aresort of like on the docket in
(19:19):
the back of your mind.
Somewhere there's a compartmentof like this needs to get done
or this needs to be addressed.
Maybe you want to make moremoney, or maybe you're deciding
whether or not you're staying inthis relationship, or maybe
there's a friendshipconversation that needs to be
had.
Or maybe somebody crossed yourboundaries and you're like oh
(19:39):
yes, I need to implement thatconsequence and these things
cause that.
In the system that I was talkingabout earlier today, I was
going to say yesterday it feelslike yesterday, but not at the
beginning of the podcast there'sthat natural hum and buzzing of
do something about this.
And what Brenda so gorgeouslyspoke about just a few seconds
(20:01):
ago it's not that that dosomething about this goes away,
it's a noticing.
Oh yes, I'm hearing inside mymind.
My mind is telling me you needto do something about this,
telling me you need to dosomething about this.
And it's a friendly suggestionfrom that lizard brain that's
(20:22):
like fix your environment so Icould be comfortable, so I could
feel safe, I could feel like Ibelong, I feel loved.
And you can say to yourselftake a deep breath, exhale,
potentially even hug yourselfand just say I am safe, I am
loved, I'm okay, I belong.
I'm not being exiled if Ididn't do the dishes, not being
(20:43):
exiled if I didn't do my taxes,like, maybe I have to pay a fine
, but nobody dies, I'm notbroken because I didn't get it
done Right.
It's not to ignore it andbecome a hoarder or something
like that.
That's not the spot.
That's not the answer.
(21:05):
The answer is to notice the tugfor you to be in action versus
to be in stillness, if stillnessis what you need and stillness
is what is needed when there isanxiousness, because it means
there's too much input, asBrenda was talking about earlier
, like there's so muchinformation that it's unnatural,
(21:25):
as she stated I'm justrephrasing what she said before
and we need to just reconnectwith ourselves, and that occurs
in stillness when there is noother input.
We have been doing thisfriendship relationship series
and when I think of stillness, Ithink of putting time into the
(21:49):
most important relationship inyour life, which is your
relationship with you, becauseyou take you everywhere.
We also recorded recently onhow important it is to be in
connection with other and it isimportant to have a relationship
with your dishes, with yourclothes, with your home, to be
in relationship with it.
(22:10):
So there's something to be done.
You are in response, you'resort of in this dance.
It doesn't have to feel likeyou are in a prison, you don't
have to be in an urgencyresponse with it.
You can be in relationship withit In the noticing.
(22:32):
Oh, I could really feel thisdiscomfort.
It's really hard for me to bestill knowing that I have to do
all of these things.
How can I stay with myself, notabandon myself?
And this could just be like 30seconds of stillness.
You know, it could be just yousaying to yourself how many
inhales and how many exhales canI do before I can actually feel
(22:55):
myself land in this seat orland in my feet before I take
the next step?
I see Brenda shaking her head.
What are you thinking about?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You really nailed it when you said being in
relationship with it.
It's the only way to movethrough it is being in
relationship with it, and thepractice you offered was
absolutely gorgeous, becausethat is how I worked with it,
cause you don't go from thedishes are driving me crazy to
the dishes.
(23:26):
Don't drive me crazy.
It's not a jump like that.
There's something in the middleand the spot in the middle is
sitting with the discomfort andjust noticing it.
And so for me, since we weretalking about my example before,
how did I get through that?
How did I change it?
So many things, but one thingwas noticing it, and my
meditation practice had a lot todo with it, and so did my
(23:49):
sensation practice, my somatics,just noticing what is happening
in my body.
Where am I feeling sensation?
And instead of jumping up to dothe dishes or the taxes or call
the person that I didn't call,whatever the thing is sitting
with the discomfort and noticingwhere my body am I feeling
(24:11):
discomfort?
And even just putting my handsthere and noticing discomfort,
and even just putting my handsthere and noticing taking a deep
breath, I am feeling a lot ofmovement in my belly right now.
I am feeling tightening in mychest, just narrating to
yourself.
(24:31):
I see the dishes over there.
I really want to jump up andclean them.
I feel like I should get up andclean them.
It's okay that I'm not going toget up and clean them.
I am safe, I am safe and I amwell and those dishes are going
to get done and I don't need toget up and do them right now to
be okay.
And I had to do that a lot oftimes and then really notice
(24:56):
that I'm not going to get up andclean them and unravel.
That piece of something in myprimal brain feels unsafe if
there's a mess, right.
This is a pattern that I pickedup just from childhood and this
is a very common thing.
And no, I am safe and it took alot of time for me to sit with
(25:19):
that and unravel that.
And now I'm like all right, Ibetter get up and do the dishes
Now.
I'm so used to them sittingaround.
But that feels great, feelsgreat.
And I do notice it and I dolaugh at myself sometimes.
Oh wow, look at that, look atthat.
I left the counter messy.
This is great.
It's great to just get to theother side of it and be okay
(25:42):
with it.
So you really nailed it whenyou said being in relationship
with it and really sitting withit, because we hot potato things
.
Very often we hot potato things.
We want to get up and get ridof this feeling.
But that's the trap that I wastalking about before.
If we're always moving to getrid of this feeling by doing
(26:03):
something, we're just alwaysstuck in that cycle and there's
times to do things.
You know, there's times thatyou do need to do your taxes,
there are times where you needto call your mother, there's
times where you need to have aconversation that's
uncomfortable.
We're not saying to avoid that,but we're saying the piece
(26:24):
where you're like, oh God, Ineed to clean this up or do this
thing, because I'm souncomfortable right now I can't
even stand it, I can't be withmyself.
The point is being withyourself, learning to cultivate
that relationship with yourselfwhere you feel good.
We're supposed to feel good inour bodies, we're supposed to
(26:48):
feel good in our life, and sohow do we cultivate that?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Well, yes, we're supposed to feel good in our
bodies, we're supposed to feelgood in our life, and what we're
pointing to is like what'shappening when it doesn't feel
good, when it's like unbearableto be in that stillness.
You've used the example ofdishes right Of, like how that
could be anxiety inducing, howyou want the house to look in a
particular way and what comes tomind.
(27:16):
For me, one of the things thatwas very anxiety inducing was
when I would hear people tellingme about a problem.
What they have in my head I hadthe solution.
I know how to fix this trainwreck.
Or I see two other two peopletalking.
I'm experiencing them talk sortof there, but not really in the
(27:36):
conversation, and I think oneperson is giving somebody else
bad advice, but nobody asked mefor my opinion.
So there's a desire in me like Iwant to interject, I want to be
the person, like I want to helphere, I want to say my part,
and then I feel that slow buzzor the revving of that buzz in
(27:58):
my body, like say it, say it,say it.
And I come from the side of thecoin that I used to say my
thoughts all the time and likepeople don't need to know all my
thoughts.
I get to share it when it'sappropriate.
And I had to learn how to bewith the discomfort of keeping
(28:19):
my mouth shut.
Like people don't need to knoweverything that I have to say or
think.
Like not everybody's a client,I don't have to interject, not
everybody's a loved one, becausethere's a cost right In sharing
.
There's a cost in being insideof something.
There's a cost of interjecting,especially when I'm
(28:40):
interjecting because I have thatsensation in my body.
Once I started to be inrelationship with it I was like,
oh, this is not the time,because something's working in
the background.
I can feel the discomfort in mybody, so I need to pause here
(29:01):
instead of contributing mythoughts and my feelings and my
sensations.
So anxiousness could occur withyou in relationship to dishes,
with you in relationship withother, with you in relationship
to your own opinions or your ownexperience of life, and with
you and your desire to share indifferent ways with you and your
(29:23):
desire to share in differentways.
And I noticed during thosetimes that when I shared, when I
was in that space, it wasn'talways welcome.
And it makes sense to me nowbecause the energy behind it was
unclean.
I don't mean it was bad,negative or came from demons or
(29:45):
the devil or anything like that.
It just wasn't dirty like itwas in the mud.
But it was coming from me and Iwasn't regulated at the time.
That's the way to describe it.
It was not clean because I wasin some way, shape or form
dysregulated when I was sharing.
And yes, we've talked aboutthis many times we heal in
(30:08):
connection and so being inrelationship with that sensation
is part of healing inconnection.
If I wasn't witnessing otherpeople in their train wreck or
in their conversations or intheir advice, I wouldn't have
the opportunity to be in mydiscomfort.
I wouldn't have the opportunityto be in my discomfort.
I wouldn't have the opportunityto just be still with my
(30:28):
thoughts and my discomforts andjust be with it, like there was
nothing that had to be said,nothing that had to be done.
I am God's spark, and so iseverybody else, and I can trust
the God in them and they canjust find their way.
I don't have to contribute.
It's an opportunity.
Just find their way.
I don't have to contribute.
It's an opportunity.
And I also see the way theuniversal intelligence weaves in
(30:48):
like it doesn't have to be doneby me, I can trust that it will
be done and done by someoneelse.
Not quite the same with dishes,because we can't really look at
dishes and say it will be doneby Godspark.
It is somewhat different.
There are things that we needto put effort in in our
environment, but there's a placeto heal that.
(31:12):
When we're doing it fromanxiousness, because we want to
feel different, we want adifferent state, because the
carrot here is, if you're alwaysdoing things so you could feel
comfortable and safe in yourspace, you don't get to
(31:32):
experience what it feels like tojust be in discomfort long
enough to learn who you are inthat discomfort and be able to
move past it.
And Brenda talked about thisslightly, about the other side
of that coin for people who areused to just leaving things like
, oh, I don't need, I'm going todo that later, I'm going to do
(31:53):
that later, I'm going to do thatlater and the dishes are never
getting done and the clothes isnever getting folded and the
taxes are never getting done.
That's a different spot.
But I don't think that thepeople who are not moving are
actually sitting in theirdiscomfort.
That is their comfort zone.
The discomfort would be to moveand go do the thing as fast as
(32:15):
possible.
And for you, the listener, youget to decide which one are you.
Are you the one that it'suncomfortable to leave the
dishes, or it's uncomfortable todo the dishes Because we all
have different lessons and soit's.
How can I be value neutral andI'm doing the dishes because
they need to get done, but notbecause I'm uncomfortable
(32:39):
because they're not done, or I'muncomfortable because I have to
do them?
It can just be, I'm just doingthe dishes and that's ultimately
what we're looking for.
That is what heals that part ofthe anxiety.
The anxiousness comes fromoverstimulation and our need for
things to be a certain way, andthat's where that anxiety purr
(33:02):
starts to happen in the body.
I love how Brenda talked aboutlike just putting your hand in
certain places.
I often, when I was working onmy heart opening, would just put
my hand on my heart, often justlike oh, my chest feels tight,
it's difficult to take a deepbreath, and can I just be with
(33:23):
myself and work with my breathuntil I can take a deep breath?
Often it would be two, threeminutes, not two or three hours,
but it could feel like it's twoor three minutes.
It could feel like it's alifetime of connecting with
yourself.
It's often just a few seconds.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, two or three minutes of a practice can go a
really long way, cause, like yousaid in your story, was is
learning how to take the pause,learning how to take the pause
and using that pause really well, and that's why the thing I
wanted to share, also to add tothis conversation, is getting
out of the mind and getting intothe body.
(34:00):
Is is really the nugget here,and paralleled with that is
having some practices that youcan go to to work with this part
of yourself.
So you can't always talkyourself out of anxiety.
Sometimes you just actuallyneed to completely pivot.
You can sit with the practicesthat we've talked about.
(34:20):
Like you said, you noticed ohmy, I don't need to contribute
here.
I can take the pause, I couldsit with this as comfort, you
notice the cost and then youchange the behavior over time.
What I'm pointing to is havingsome practices that you can go
to so that when you're feelinganxious, you don't have to sit
(34:42):
and stew in this discomfort.
This is why we go to, so thatwhen you're feeling anxious, you
don't have to sit and stew inthis discomfort.
This is why we go to yoga, thisis why we do meditation, this
is why we do breathing exercisesor taking a walk, or spending
time in nature or going to thegym, whatever the practice is
that you do.
This is why we do them, so thatwhen the shit hits the fan,
(35:06):
when we're feeling anxious,we're not sitting there going.
Oh my God, what do I do now?
This is what your practices arefor.
You're having a really hard time, you're feeling really anxious?
Go to a yoga class, go take awalk, do a writing practice or
do one of the things that wetalked about putting your hand
on your heart, noticing thesensations in your body.
(35:28):
This is why we practice so thatwhen we need it, we have a
fallback, we have something togo to, and that has been an
absolute lifesaver for me,because sometimes, when the shit
hits the fan and your mind isspinning, that is not the time
to say, oh, I need to find ayoga studio or I need a yoga mat
(35:49):
.
You have these things in place,and this is why we say take
care of yourself, have somepractices that you can build so
you can go to them, you can fallback on them when you need.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
You're making me think of, like what it would be
like if you don't know how todrive and you're like, oh, I
need to get over there, I needto get, grab the keys and grab
the car, Like no, that's notwhen you learn how to drive.
You don't learn how to drivewhen you need to take somebody
to the hospital or when you havean emergency or something
urgent.
You learn how to drive the carbeforehand and now you'd have
the skill, you have a driver'slicense and that's when
(36:23):
something happens you have totake somebody.
That's somewhere you then areable more than able to move the
car.
So, likewise, when we have toheal because of potentially, we
have anxiousness because ourbody's telling us to do
something or our body's tellingus to avoid something.
Either way, the noise issomewhat the same in the
(36:44):
physical nervous system, whereit feels like you have test
tightening, test test chesttightening and difficulty taking
a deep breath.
Ultimately, we want to be ableto heal what the constant
movement avoids, or heal whatour non-movement is trying to
(37:05):
avoid, and we're only going tobe with that if we can pause and
be in relationship withourselves and the discomfort.
There is no leap to the otherside.
Like you said before, there isa noticing step.
We really wanted to bring thisforward today to talk to
everyone about anxiousness,anxiety and what this like purr
(37:29):
in the body, this purring in thebody to move or not move, or
what it feels like in thatlittle crevice corner of
anxiousness, whether it'shormonal, environmental,
circumstantial, it's still anopportunity for you to learn how
(37:49):
to be with you.
Hopefully, some of oursuggestions today brought you a
little clarity, brought you alittle closer to yourself.
That's our goal with thisparticular episode.
We love you so much.
We can't wait to see you again.
It's a wrap.
Bye for now.
(38:14):
Thank you for joining us on theDesire is Medicine podcast
Desire invites us to be honest,loving and deeply intimate with
ourselves and others.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.