May 28, 2025 • 23 mins
What does it really mean to be free? Is it doing whatever you want—or something else?
In this episode, we explore the difference between true freedom and false freedom. Many of us chase a version of freedom that actually leaves us feeling more stuck—mistaking impulsivity, people-pleasing, and structure-free living for liberation, when they’re really subtle forms of escape.
True freedom arises when we make conscious choices aligned with our values. It’s not about having no limits—it’s about making intentional choices rather than from wounds or conditioning. This kind of freedom brings clarity, safety, and spaciousness into our lives.
Surprisingly, structure—often viewed as restrictive—can be a powerful ally in cultivating freedom. Supportive routines reduce decision fatigue and create space for what matters most. Like skyscrapers that sway in the wind, flexible structures help us remain grounded and resilient.
Main Points:
• Awareness precedes choice—you need to know you have options before you can exercise freedom
• False freedom often looks like reacting from impulse or emotion without considering impact
• Structure paradoxically creates more freedom by eliminating decision fatigue
• Like skyscrapers designed to sway with wind, effective structures have built-in flexibility
• Regular practices (morning routines, consistent sleep schedules) support freedom rather than restrict it
• Saying yes when you mean no might feel easier but compounds into less freedom over time
• Small choices compound over time—consider the collective impact of daily decisions
• True freedom involves owning your impact with love and integrity
• Self-trust and self-awareness grow when you honor your needs and limits
Reflect:
What structures would truly support you?
Where are you experiencing true freedom? Where might it be false freedom in disguise? Where are you trying to escape?
How did you like this episode? Tell us everything, we'd love to hear from you.
If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Peace that is often overlooked.
Being responsible for ourdesire.
Welcome back, friends.
So freedom we've been havingsuch a great conversation around
(01:34):
freedom, just talking aboutwhat it means to really be free.
It's not about just doingwhatever you want, however you
want, not considering others orthe impact or consequences in
your life.
It's about do I have the choiceto go either way, or am I just
(02:04):
saying, oh, our ability torespond to life right From a
place of our values, instead ofour wounding or conditioning,
where we're able to really seeand feel into what's true for us
.
What is it that we really want?
What would feel the mostnourishing, the most generative?
The most nourishing, the mostgenerative For me, my own
(02:26):
personal life.
I would say that the moreresponsibility I take, the more
freedom I have, and we're goingto get into this a little bit
more, like even desire asmedicine.
When we're responsible for ourdesire, it is truly so healing,
because this is where we get toget free in the places where
(02:49):
we're sort of stuck and we don'teven know that we're stuck.
We could potentially not evenknow.
We have a spaciousness thatopens up inside of us, like
where there's no fear, shame,guilt or people pleasing.
We get to feel safe in ourenvironments, in our body, clear
in our minds, connected to ourhearts.
(03:09):
Freedom looks like many, manythings, and Brenda and I today
we're going to go far out therelike aliens and talk about false
freedom.
Like what does false freedomlook like?
It's the places where we thinkwe're free but we're not really
free, right?
(03:31):
One of the ways is when wereact from impulse or emotion,
we just have to have it Truefreedom versus false freedom.
Brenda, do you have any strongresponse around true freedom or
false freedom?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
True freedom or false freedom?
Oh my goodness.
Choice that's what comes tomind is just a choice which,
before choice comes awareness,which before choice comes
awareness.
Before you can make a choice onsomething, you need to know
that you even have a choice,which means you have to have
(04:13):
some level of awareness ofwhat's actually happening in
front of you, what's the realityin front of you, what are you
dealing with?
And then curiosity is all partof it.
Before you can even get to thechoice.
I think a lot of people arejust kind of walking around
feeling victimized, likeeveryone out there is an asshole
(04:35):
and everything sucks because ofsomething external, because of
some outside reason.
But we really have a lot ofchoice and all of it.
But if you don't know that, ifyou're not aware that you have
choice, then you're really juststuck in that hamster wheel of
(04:56):
blaming other people andconstantly feeling like you
don't have what you want.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, feeling like you don't have what you want.
Yeah, I feel like you don'thave what you want.
Feel like you can't choose.
Right, I always think offreedom for me.
Definitely, as a child, youknow, I was like I just want to
be free.
I don't want all these limitsthese people are giving me or
putting on me.
But freedom isn't like theabsence of a limit, it's the
(05:24):
presence of choice.
It's like how can we be in thepresence of choice?
Right, Freedom is when we canmake, like Brenda's saying,
conscious choices.
Right, Align with your values.
I would also say that freedomis when we own our impact with
love and integrity.
(05:44):
Right, Brenda and I meetfrequently and one of the things
that I wanna make sure is thatwe're connected.
That has an impact not just onus individually.
Together and also the podcast.
What are some of the structuresthat support us in being this
(06:11):
way?
Awareness, for sure, Like yousaid before, being able to be
clear on oh, this little placeover here where somebody cuts me
off in traffic and I literallywant to stalk them like, drive
behind them until they get home,get out of my car and tell them
you have to apologize forcutting me off, or something
(06:35):
crazy like that.
When I think about freedom orlack of freedom, I definitely
think road rage, Like how manypeople lose their minds behind
the car Excuse me, behind thewheel of a car, Like it's
bananas, just bananas.
But think about it.
You're in traffic, you're stuck, you're literally not able to
drive where you want to go,You're not at the location that
(06:56):
you want to get to.
You feel all this resistanceinternally and externally, and
then there's an explosion.
That is not freedom at all.
It's like you wish you couldjust get out of the car and
destroy the other person ordestroy their vehicle, and it's
(07:17):
really escapism, right?
That's not really freedom.
Even if you could do whateveryou want, there would definitely
be consequences.
It's not like destroyingsomebody else's property is okay
, right?
Like?
Another place where an examplethat comes to mind is how often
do we say yes to just avoiddiscomfort?
(07:38):
And is that freedom?
I guess I think you can argueboth ways, Like, oh, it's just
easier to say yes and do it.
But I think that's only true ifyou're someone that says no
often, because the cost of thatyes to avoid discomfort isn't
(08:00):
such a big deal.
But if you're constantly sayingyes to avoid discomfort and
you're like oh, just what?
What does one more yes matter?
And like it matters, it reallymatters, because that yes could
be a no and that no, thatbeginning boundary, is like your
(08:22):
first baby step towards freedomin that area.
Right, Brenda?
Like you're just.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, baby inching closer.
And let's be honest, one yeswhen you mean no isn't the end
of the world, but it can be aslippery slope, kind of like I
don't eat cheese and if I starteating a bite of pizza, that's a
slippery slope for me.
For sure, one time of doingthat it's just not a big deal.
(08:51):
But if you're at the beginningof your journey or you're
somebody who is constantlysaying yes and you're not saying
no, if you're exhausted all thetime and you're fighting with
your partner and yelling at yourkids and not sleeping at night,
you probably have a lot ofcortisol in your body, you're
probably stressed out, you'reprobably doing more than what
(09:14):
your capacity is and you'reprobably we can distill this
down to many things, but we'retalking about yeses and nos.
I know for moms who are busyand potentially working outside
the house, probably saying yesto a lot more things than you
actually have capacity for andit can get really dangerous over
(09:36):
time.
One of my teachers used to saytwo people come home from work
at the end of the day.
One of them goes to a bar andhas a beer, the other one goes
to yoga.
No big deal, either one.
We can have approval for eitherone right, and that's true.
Nothing right or wrong abouteither one of those choices, but
(09:56):
cumulative over time, at theend of a month or at the end of
a year, what do you have?
If that same person who'sgetting a beer at the end of the
night, where are they in amonth or a year, as compared to
the person who's going to yogabecause they're stressed at the
end of the day after a year,where is that person?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It has me think about the compound effect of creating
a particular structure that'scontributing to you getting
stronger in an area to be ableto then be more responsible in
other places and be more free,versus, like one is you're sort
of leaning into a little bitmore control and responsibility
(10:39):
and the other one is sort of alittle bit more of escapism.
That's what comes to mind forme.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Exactly, and there's nothing wrong with it.
But over time it can really behard, and I love that you're
pointing to structure.
I think structure is a reallyhuge part of freedom, and
structure built around how youwant to live your life is very
different than rigid rules thatyou live by.
That's very different.
(11:06):
So I have a lot of structure inmy life and it's very flexible.
It's like when they buildskyscrapers they don't build
skyscrapers just super solid.
They're built to sway with thewind, because if the skyscrapers
sway with the wind then they'reactually safer that way.
And that's kind of how mypractices are.
(11:26):
In the morning I have a practice, I have many, and they change
over time.
I wouldn't say I'm superstructured with my practices
right now, but I do do somemovement and yoga every morning.
That to me, is freedom becauseit just loosens me up.
It gets me into my body.
(11:47):
I could have my yoga practicebe 20 minutes.
I could have it be six or sevenminutes, depending on my day
and what's needed.
I could have it be six or sevenminutes, depending on my day
and what's needed.
But it's that time for me toconnect with myself and it sets
up my day for success.
It gets me into my body and Ialso have a spring cleaning
practice.
It's a morning call that I dowith a friend.
We do that four days a week,tuesday through Friday, so
(12:10):
that's a lot of structure.
The call is basically at 9.15every morning.
And do I always want to get upto do it?
No, sometimes I'm like I justwant to stay in bed for five
more minutes.
Mommy, I'm mommy.
(12:36):
I have that 45 minute time inthe morning with a friend to,
and the call itself has a lot ofstructure and a lot of
flexibility inside of it torelease whatever wants to be
released, move something,connect with a friend, just move
whatever emotions maybe getclear on something, and I always
feel better after both of thosethings.
Sometimes I don't want to dothe call and I always do the
(12:58):
call.
It's kind of like well, do Iwant to go to the gym or not go
to the gym?
You don't usually go to the gymand then say, wow, that was a
mistake.
Generally right, you feelbetter after it.
So these structures support usin our life.
They're supposed to support usin having the life that we want.
(13:18):
And in order for me to show upfor my clients, in order for me
to show up for my partner andfor this podcast, I need to move
things through me all the time.
I'm like constantly processingemotions, crying, moving, trying
to get clear on something,whatever it is, and without
(13:39):
those structures in place, thepipes can get clogged.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yes, I'm thinking about you know something getting
backed up because you justhaven't had, you don't have the
structure in place to address itRight, the structure in place
to address it right.
So right now we're talkingabout how, like, avoiding
structure completely does notreally contribute to true
freedom.
Avoiding structure completelyis sort of self-sabotage, right?
(14:09):
Sometimes, when clients arelike, oh, I just really like to
be in the flow of things, I'mlike I get that.
I get feeling like what do Iwant to do?
And being a yes to what feelsgood in this moment.
I get wanting to make choicesthat are aligned with my values
(14:29):
or aligned with my desire, linewith my desire.
The thing is that when we don'thave structure I don't know if
this is going to be a mic drop,but when we don't have structure
, there are high chances ofexperiencing decision fatigue.
(14:50):
Like, there are certainstructures that I have in my
life.
I have certain co-workingsessions that happen every week.
I have certain work times thathappen every week.
I have like a money practicethat happens every week.
There are things that I checkon and I know what day and what
time it's happening.
I don't have to guess and Idon't have to find the time in
(15:11):
my schedule to do it and I don'thave to find the time in my
schedule to do it, and that, toa certain extent, is freedom.
Right, just like batch cookingcan be freedom.
You don't have to think aboutwhen you're going to cook in the
day, because the food is madefor you for the tomorrow,
because you handled it duringthe time that you handled it.
Maybe food prep is on Sunday,maybe it's on Monday, maybe it's
a different day, but thesethings that visually can be like
(15:37):
, or even conceptually, oh mygoodness, why is there so much
structure?
This is so like it feels like aprison, you know, or it feels
so forced or so masculine,potentially like all terms that
could be misconstrued in ourcoaching environment.
But the truth is that avoidingstructure completely really
(15:59):
leads to decision fatigue.
Because if you could decide onsome structural pieces that
handle the bigger parts of yourlife, so that your life can hem
and haw and sort of go accordingto plan in the way, and it will
be really supportive, asopposed to like the cost of just
chasing your pleasure and nothaving any structure in place to
(16:24):
really handle yourresponsibilities, because, let's
be honest, abandoning ourselvesis not freedom, right, ever
right, like any place where.
So why would I have to look atmy week every week and decide
when I'm going to batch cook, orwhen I'm going to go to the
supermarket, or when I'm goingto the gym, or when I'm going to
(16:45):
handle my money date?
I could just have it in placeand then it's thought of and
it's handled and it's there andI don't have to make it up as I
go.
Now, yes, there will be timeswhen maybe I'm staying with a
friend or I'm traveling.
There are exceptions to therule, and if I were doing that,
if my exceptions were my daily,I definitely would have decision
(17:08):
fatigue.
I don't even know what it wouldfeel like by the time I open my
closet, because it's likehandling all of these balls in
the air when it's not reallynecessary.
Not in our day and age, when wehave digital calendars.
You have physical calendars.
We could tell Siri to put it inour calendar.
There's just all these placeswhere we could properly really
hold ourselves to the highestversion of us.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I love that you're saying the exceptions are
freedom, and it had me thinkthat the rigidity is a prison,
like when we're not flexible.
It just feels like a prison andI think that when we build our
life with too much of that, itfeels confining.
I think the whole idea is thatbuilding that's swaying a little
bit, like there's flexibilityinside of it, that building
(17:55):
that's swaying a little bit,like there's flexibility inside
of it and you can't you can'tsleep till noon every day, right
, I mean, but the exceptionalday where you sleep till noon,
that can feel really great.
But I slept till 930 one dayover the weekend and I had to
also get out and wow, that didnot feel great at all.
So it was like it's like adouble bind in a way.
It's like the sleeping latefelt good, but then it actually
just messed up my day and wow,that did not feel great at all.
So it was like it's like adouble bind in a way.
(18:15):
It's like the sleeping latefelt good, but then it actually
just messed up my day and I feltstressed out for the whole
morning trying to do what Ineeded to do to get out the
house, and I don't want to livethat way.
So one thing I'm working withright now is a more consistent
sleep schedule, like getting upmore at the same time every day,
(18:37):
which I actually don't dobecause I'm thinking, oh, I need
more structure in my sleep, Ineed more structure in my sleep
schedule so that my days areactually smoother and have more
flow, and then I can make thatcall In full disclosure.
My partner and I actuallyhaven't done this call in about
(19:00):
a week and I could feel thedifference in my body.
So I am a big proponent forstructures.
What structures do you need inyour life?
What do you want and what wouldsupport you?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Totally.
I'm hearing you say, likeresponding to your life, what do
you want and what would supportyou?
Totally.
I'm hearing you say like,responding to your life, like
from a place where you'regrounded in your truth.
You're talking about, oh, Inotice, if I sleep in, it sort
of does something to my day.
Right, I feel pressure.
Or, oh, if I miss my calls,well, I don't feel as cleaned
out, I feel somewhat more backedup.
So you're really responding towhat's true and you're gaining
(19:38):
clarity.
Right, you're able to makeconscious choices based on your
values.
Like you're owning the impactof your decisions on yourself,
the people you love.
Right, you're wanting to be inmore integrity.
You're saying to yourself Iwant to make sure that I have a
sleep schedule, that I have acertain level of sleep hygiene.
I want to implement thatbecause I'm noticing that
(20:00):
without it, it's not that mylife is unmanageable, it's that
it could be better.
And being better is whatfreedom feels like.
Right, then I could reallyenjoy my evening, my morning, I
could know that I'm going towake up rested, et cetera,
whatever else that means to you,and you're really able to honor
your needs and honor your ownlimits.
(20:21):
Right, and that is freedombeing able to say no to staying
up late or maybe binging a showbecause you want to honor where
you're at right, rootingyourself and backing yourself,
and then in that, you gain somuch self-trust, so much
approval for where you are right, and I think that's a place
(20:43):
where most people thrive.
Like you start to see okay, Ican see what my life looks like
when I am responsible for this.
I can see what my life lookslike when I'm not.
I can see what my life lookslike when I have the structure.
When I don't have the structure, I can see what my life looks
like when I am truly in choice.
All right, I'm going to createthe structure that supports my
(21:06):
desires, because I see howthat's favorable.
All right, I'm going to reallyput attention on the things that
nourish me, that provide mepleasure.
All right, I'm going to reallyput attention on the things that
nourish me, that provide mepleasure.
All right, this is great.
This is supporting me.
I can see the positive impactand just staying connected to
ourselves while we're choosingthis is so powerful because we
(21:30):
don't always do that.
It's so easy to drop it.
It's so easy to say I justcan't make those calls because
I'm so always do that it's soeasy to drop it.
It's so easy to say I justcan't make those calls because
I'm so busy this week.
I'm just going to stay up latebecause I really want to watch
this show and I had a stressfulday today and whatever
Tomorrow's another day, I'llfigure it out.
It's really easy to let thesethings go.
It's easy to forget what freedomreally is and what true freedom
(21:58):
is and what false freedom is.
It's really our desire thateveryone feel into, like, what
freedom looks like for you.
We're going to go deeper intothis, but for now, leaving you
with the question of where inyour life are you truly free?
Where do you have falsefreedoms?
(22:21):
And you don't have to.
It doesn't have to be that deep.
You could just look at the pastfew days.
Where can I adjust?
What's the information that Ihave Like?
How can I gain a little bitmore clarity here for myself?
If anything that we've saidtoday resonates with you, please
send us a message.
(22:42):
We love hearing from you.
Bye for now.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Peace that is often overlooked.
Being responsible for ourdesire.
Welcome back, friends.
So freedom we've been havingsuch a great conversation around
(01:34):
freedom, just talking aboutwhat it means to really be free.
It's not about just doingwhatever you want, however you
want, not considering others orthe impact or consequences in
your life.
It's about do I have the choiceto go either way, or am I just
(02:04):
saying, oh, our ability torespond to life right From a
place of our values, instead ofour wounding or conditioning,
where we're able to really seeand feel into what's true for us
.
What is it that we really want?
What would feel the mostnourishing, the most generative?
The most nourishing, the mostgenerative For me, my own
(02:26):
personal life.
I would say that the moreresponsibility I take, the more
freedom I have, and we're goingto get into this a little bit
more, like even desire asmedicine.
When we're responsible for ourdesire, it is truly so healing,
because this is where we get toget free in the places where
(02:49):
we're sort of stuck and we don'teven know that we're stuck.
We could potentially not evenknow.
We have a spaciousness thatopens up inside of us, like
where there's no fear, shame,guilt or people pleasing.
We get to feel safe in ourenvironments, in our body, clear
in our minds, connected to ourhearts.
(03:09):
Freedom looks like many, manythings, and Brenda and I today
we're going to go far out therelike aliens and talk about false
freedom.
Like what does false freedomlook like?
It's the places where we thinkwe're free but we're not really
free, right?
(03:31):
One of the ways is when wereact from impulse or emotion,
we just have to have it Truefreedom versus false freedom.
Brenda, do you have any strongresponse around true freedom or
false freedom?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
True freedom or false freedom?
Oh my goodness.
Choice that's what comes tomind is just a choice which,
before choice comes awareness,which before choice comes
awareness.
Before you can make a choice onsomething, you need to know
that you even have a choice,which means you have to have
(04:13):
some level of awareness ofwhat's actually happening in
front of you, what's the realityin front of you, what are you
dealing with?
And then curiosity is all partof it.
Before you can even get to thechoice.
I think a lot of people arejust kind of walking around
feeling victimized, likeeveryone out there is an asshole
(04:35):
and everything sucks because ofsomething external, because of
some outside reason.
But we really have a lot ofchoice and all of it.
But if you don't know that, ifyou're not aware that you have
choice, then you're really juststuck in that hamster wheel of
(04:56):
blaming other people andconstantly feeling like you
don't have what you want.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, feeling like you don't have what you want.
Yeah, I feel like you don'thave what you want.
Feel like you can't choose.
Right, I always think offreedom for me.
Definitely, as a child, youknow, I was like I just want to
be free.
I don't want all these limitsthese people are giving me or
putting on me.
But freedom isn't like theabsence of a limit, it's the
(05:24):
presence of choice.
It's like how can we be in thepresence of choice?
Right, Freedom is when we canmake, like Brenda's saying,
conscious choices.
Right, Align with your values.
I would also say that freedomis when we own our impact with
love and integrity.
(05:44):
Right, Brenda and I meetfrequently and one of the things
that I wanna make sure is thatwe're connected.
That has an impact not just onus individually.
Together and also the podcast.
What are some of the structuresthat support us in being this
(06:11):
way?
Awareness, for sure, Like yousaid before, being able to be
clear on oh, this little placeover here where somebody cuts me
off in traffic and I literallywant to stalk them like, drive
behind them until they get home,get out of my car and tell them
you have to apologize forcutting me off, or something
(06:35):
crazy like that.
When I think about freedom orlack of freedom, I definitely
think road rage, Like how manypeople lose their minds behind
the car Excuse me, behind thewheel of a car, Like it's
bananas, just bananas.
But think about it.
You're in traffic, you're stuck, you're literally not able to
drive where you want to go,You're not at the location that
(06:56):
you want to get to.
You feel all this resistanceinternally and externally, and
then there's an explosion.
That is not freedom at all.
It's like you wish you couldjust get out of the car and
destroy the other person ordestroy their vehicle, and it's
(07:17):
really escapism, right?
That's not really freedom.
Even if you could do whateveryou want, there would definitely
be consequences.
It's not like destroyingsomebody else's property is okay
, right?
Like?
Another place where an examplethat comes to mind is how often
do we say yes to just avoiddiscomfort?
(07:38):
And is that freedom?
I guess I think you can argueboth ways, Like, oh, it's just
easier to say yes and do it.
But I think that's only true ifyou're someone that says no
often, because the cost of thatyes to avoid discomfort isn't
(08:00):
such a big deal.
But if you're constantly sayingyes to avoid discomfort and
you're like oh, just what?
What does one more yes matter?
And like it matters, it reallymatters, because that yes could
be a no and that no, thatbeginning boundary, is like your
(08:22):
first baby step towards freedomin that area.
Right, Brenda?
Like you're just.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, baby inching closer.
And let's be honest, one yeswhen you mean no isn't the end
of the world, but it can be aslippery slope, kind of like I
don't eat cheese and if I starteating a bite of pizza, that's a
slippery slope for me.
For sure, one time of doingthat it's just not a big deal.
(08:51):
But if you're at the beginningof your journey or you're
somebody who is constantlysaying yes and you're not saying
no, if you're exhausted all thetime and you're fighting with
your partner and yelling at yourkids and not sleeping at night,
you probably have a lot ofcortisol in your body, you're
probably stressed out, you'reprobably doing more than what
(09:14):
your capacity is and you'reprobably we can distill this
down to many things, but we'retalking about yeses and nos.
I know for moms who are busyand potentially working outside
the house, probably saying yesto a lot more things than you
actually have capacity for andit can get really dangerous over
(09:36):
time.
One of my teachers used to saytwo people come home from work
at the end of the day.
One of them goes to a bar andhas a beer, the other one goes
to yoga.
No big deal, either one.
We can have approval for eitherone right, and that's true.
Nothing right or wrong abouteither one of those choices, but
(09:56):
cumulative over time, at theend of a month or at the end of
a year, what do you have?
If that same person who'sgetting a beer at the end of the
night, where are they in amonth or a year, as compared to
the person who's going to yogabecause they're stressed at the
end of the day after a year,where is that person?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It has me think about the compound effect of creating
a particular structure that'scontributing to you getting
stronger in an area to be ableto then be more responsible in
other places and be more free,versus, like one is you're sort
of leaning into a little bitmore control and responsibility
(10:39):
and the other one is sort of alittle bit more of escapism.
That's what comes to mind forme.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Exactly, and there's nothing wrong with it.
But over time it can really behard, and I love that you're
pointing to structure.
I think structure is a reallyhuge part of freedom, and
structure built around how youwant to live your life is very
different than rigid rules thatyou live by.
That's very different.
(11:06):
So I have a lot of structure inmy life and it's very flexible.
It's like when they buildskyscrapers they don't build
skyscrapers just super solid.
They're built to sway with thewind, because if the skyscrapers
sway with the wind then they'reactually safer that way.
And that's kind of how mypractices are.
(11:26):
In the morning I have a practice, I have many, and they change
over time.
I wouldn't say I'm superstructured with my practices
right now, but I do do somemovement and yoga every morning.
That to me, is freedom becauseit just loosens me up.
It gets me into my body.
(11:47):
I could have my yoga practicebe 20 minutes.
I could have it be six or sevenminutes, depending on my day
and what's needed.
I could have it be six or sevenminutes, depending on my day
and what's needed.
But it's that time for me toconnect with myself and it sets
up my day for success.
It gets me into my body and Ialso have a spring cleaning
practice.
It's a morning call that I dowith a friend.
We do that four days a week,tuesday through Friday, so
(12:10):
that's a lot of structure.
The call is basically at 9.15every morning.
And do I always want to get upto do it?
No, sometimes I'm like I justwant to stay in bed for five
more minutes.
Mommy, I'm mommy.
(12:36):
I have that 45 minute time inthe morning with a friend to,
and the call itself has a lot ofstructure and a lot of
flexibility inside of it torelease whatever wants to be
released, move something,connect with a friend, just move
whatever emotions maybe getclear on something, and I always
feel better after both of thosethings.
Sometimes I don't want to dothe call and I always do the
(12:58):
call.
It's kind of like well, do Iwant to go to the gym or not go
to the gym?
You don't usually go to the gymand then say, wow, that was a
mistake.
Generally right, you feelbetter after it.
So these structures support usin our life.
They're supposed to support usin having the life that we want.
(13:18):
And in order for me to show upfor my clients, in order for me
to show up for my partner andfor this podcast, I need to move
things through me all the time.
I'm like constantly processingemotions, crying, moving, trying
to get clear on something,whatever it is, and without
(13:39):
those structures in place, thepipes can get clogged.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yes, I'm thinking about you know something getting
backed up because you justhaven't had, you don't have the
structure in place to address itRight, the structure in place
to address it right.
So right now we're talkingabout how, like, avoiding
structure completely does notreally contribute to true
freedom.
Avoiding structure completelyis sort of self-sabotage, right?
(14:09):
Sometimes, when clients arelike, oh, I just really like to
be in the flow of things, I'mlike I get that.
I get feeling like what do Iwant to do?
And being a yes to what feelsgood in this moment.
I get wanting to make choicesthat are aligned with my values
(14:29):
or aligned with my desire, linewith my desire.
The thing is that when we don'thave structure I don't know if
this is going to be a mic drop,but when we don't have structure
, there are high chances ofexperiencing decision fatigue.
(14:50):
Like, there are certainstructures that I have in my
life.
I have certain co-workingsessions that happen every week.
I have certain work times thathappen every week.
I have like a money practicethat happens every week.
There are things that I checkon and I know what day and what
time it's happening.
I don't have to guess and Idon't have to find the time in
(15:11):
my schedule to do it and I don'thave to find the time in my
schedule to do it, and that, toa certain extent, is freedom.
Right, just like batch cookingcan be freedom.
You don't have to think aboutwhen you're going to cook in the
day, because the food is madefor you for the tomorrow,
because you handled it duringthe time that you handled it.
Maybe food prep is on Sunday,maybe it's on Monday, maybe it's
a different day, but thesethings that visually can be like
(15:37):
, or even conceptually, oh mygoodness, why is there so much
structure?
This is so like it feels like aprison, you know, or it feels
so forced or so masculine,potentially like all terms that
could be misconstrued in ourcoaching environment.
But the truth is that avoidingstructure completely really
(15:59):
leads to decision fatigue.
Because if you could decide onsome structural pieces that
handle the bigger parts of yourlife, so that your life can hem
and haw and sort of go accordingto plan in the way, and it will
be really supportive, asopposed to like the cost of just
chasing your pleasure and nothaving any structure in place to
(16:24):
really handle yourresponsibilities, because, let's
be honest, abandoning ourselvesis not freedom, right, ever
right, like any place where.
So why would I have to look atmy week every week and decide
when I'm going to batch cook, orwhen I'm going to go to the
supermarket, or when I'm goingto the gym, or when I'm going to
(16:45):
handle my money date?
I could just have it in placeand then it's thought of and
it's handled and it's there andI don't have to make it up as I
go.
Now, yes, there will be timeswhen maybe I'm staying with a
friend or I'm traveling.
There are exceptions to therule, and if I were doing that,
if my exceptions were my daily,I definitely would have decision
(17:08):
fatigue.
I don't even know what it wouldfeel like by the time I open my
closet, because it's likehandling all of these balls in
the air when it's not reallynecessary.
Not in our day and age, when wehave digital calendars.
You have physical calendars.
We could tell Siri to put it inour calendar.
There's just all these placeswhere we could properly really
hold ourselves to the highestversion of us.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I love that you're saying the exceptions are
freedom, and it had me thinkthat the rigidity is a prison,
like when we're not flexible.
It just feels like a prison andI think that when we build our
life with too much of that, itfeels confining.
I think the whole idea is thatbuilding that's swaying a little
bit, like there's flexibilityinside of it, that building
(17:55):
that's swaying a little bit,like there's flexibility inside
of it and you can't you can'tsleep till noon every day, right
, I mean, but the exceptionalday where you sleep till noon,
that can feel really great.
But I slept till 930 one dayover the weekend and I had to
also get out and wow, that didnot feel great at all.
So it was like it's like adouble bind in a way.
It's like the sleeping latefelt good, but then it actually
just messed up my day and wow,that did not feel great at all.
So it was like it's like adouble bind in a way.
(18:15):
It's like the sleeping latefelt good, but then it actually
just messed up my day and I feltstressed out for the whole
morning trying to do what Ineeded to do to get out the
house, and I don't want to livethat way.
So one thing I'm working withright now is a more consistent
sleep schedule, like getting upmore at the same time every day,
(18:37):
which I actually don't dobecause I'm thinking, oh, I need
more structure in my sleep, Ineed more structure in my sleep
schedule so that my days areactually smoother and have more
flow, and then I can make thatcall In full disclosure.
My partner and I actuallyhaven't done this call in about
(19:00):
a week and I could feel thedifference in my body.
So I am a big proponent forstructures.
What structures do you need inyour life?
What do you want and what wouldsupport you?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Totally.
I'm hearing you say, likeresponding to your life, what do
you want and what would supportyou?
Totally.
I'm hearing you say like,responding to your life, like
from a place where you'regrounded in your truth.
You're talking about, oh, Inotice, if I sleep in, it sort
of does something to my day.
Right, I feel pressure.
Or, oh, if I miss my calls,well, I don't feel as cleaned
out, I feel somewhat more backedup.
So you're really responding towhat's true and you're gaining
(19:38):
clarity.
Right, you're able to makeconscious choices based on your
values.
Like you're owning the impactof your decisions on yourself,
the people you love.
Right, you're wanting to be inmore integrity.
You're saying to yourself Iwant to make sure that I have a
sleep schedule, that I have acertain level of sleep hygiene.
I want to implement thatbecause I'm noticing that
(20:00):
without it, it's not that mylife is unmanageable, it's that
it could be better.
And being better is whatfreedom feels like.
Right, then I could reallyenjoy my evening, my morning, I
could know that I'm going towake up rested, et cetera,
whatever else that means to you,and you're really able to honor
your needs and honor your ownlimits.
(20:21):
Right, and that is freedombeing able to say no to staying
up late or maybe binging a showbecause you want to honor where
you're at right, rootingyourself and backing yourself,
and then in that, you gain somuch self-trust, so much
approval for where you are right, and I think that's a place
(20:43):
where most people thrive.
Like you start to see okay, Ican see what my life looks like
when I am responsible for this.
I can see what my life lookslike when I'm not.
I can see what my life lookslike when I have the structure.
When I don't have the structure, I can see what my life looks
like when I am truly in choice.
All right, I'm going to createthe structure that supports my
(21:06):
desires, because I see howthat's favorable.
All right, I'm going to reallyput attention on the things that
nourish me, that provide mepleasure.
All right, I'm going to reallyput attention on the things that
nourish me, that provide mepleasure.
All right, this is great.
This is supporting me.
I can see the positive impactand just staying connected to
ourselves while we're choosingthis is so powerful because we
(21:30):
don't always do that.
It's so easy to drop it.
It's so easy to say I justcan't make those calls because
I'm so always do that it's soeasy to drop it.
It's so easy to say I justcan't make those calls because
I'm so busy this week.
I'm just going to stay up latebecause I really want to watch
this show and I had a stressfulday today and whatever
Tomorrow's another day, I'llfigure it out.
It's really easy to let thesethings go.
It's easy to forget what freedomreally is and what true freedom
(21:58):
is and what false freedom is.
It's really our desire thateveryone feel into, like, what
freedom looks like for you.
We're going to go deeper intothis, but for now, leaving you
with the question of where inyour life are you truly free?
Where do you have falsefreedoms?
(22:21):
And you don't have to.
It doesn't have to be that deep.
You could just look at the pastfew days.
Where can I adjust?
What's the information that Ihave Like?
How can I gain a little bitmore clarity here for myself?
If anything that we've saidtoday resonates with you, please
send us a message.
(22:42):
We love hearing from you.
Bye for now.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
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