June 4, 2025 • 21 mins
What does it mean to love without losing yourself?
Freedom isn't about avoiding responsibility, it's about staying rooted in yourself while loving others fully. When we overextend in small, constant ways, always saying yes, always accommodating, we slowly drift into self-abandonment and codependency.
True freedom begins when we trust others to navigate their own journey. Seeing each person as a divine being capable of growth allows us to step back without guilt. While our desire to help may come from love, it often prevents real resilience from developing.
This shift requires internal work, especially regulating our nervous systems so we can sit with discomfort instead of jumping in to fix. Whether you’re a parent, partner, or healer, freedom grows when you honor boundaries and let others rise in their own time.
Episode Highlights:
• Loving without losing yourself means maintaining boundaries even when you have the capacity to give more
• Seeing everyone as a "spark of God" creates freedom from needing to control or fix others
• Nervous system regulation helps us sit with discomfort when witnessing others struggle
• True freedom comes from trusting that everyone is making the best decisions for their growth
• Motherhood offers powerful opportunities to practice loving without interference
• The distinction between helping clients professionally versus loving people personally
• Giving others space to learn and grow is the greatest gift we can offer them
Join us in this exploration of freedom through relationship and share what resonates with you most from today's episode. Share with us: how do you practice loving without losing yourself? Feel free to rate us and leave us a review.
How did you like this episode? Tell us everything, we'd love to hear from you.
If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked peace.
That is often overlooked beingresponsible for our desire.
Welcome back.
(01:35):
I am so excited, for todaywe're going to go down the story
hole.
So we've been talking aboutfreedom and what is freedom,
what's true freedom, what'sfalse freedom, and we want to
give you some examples.
One that I resonate with deeplyis like loving without losing
yourself.
I love really hard and I reallywant to make sure that the
people that I love are good andsafe.
And there was a time in my lifewhen I would just overextend,
(02:00):
but it was a tricky, trickyoverextend because I have a lot
of stamina and ability.
So I'm overextending but I'mwithin my capacity, and it took
me some time to figure out thatI was not within my capacity.
But by the time I could figureit out, I was already too far
gone.
Let me show you how.
(02:20):
So technically, it's like I wasloving while losing myself.
So that looks like if I wasgoing to meet up with friends,
let's say, I could drive thewhole way.
I don't have to drive halfway.
Right, it's not a big deal, butI can do it.
(02:41):
So, instead of it being like,maybe so it's an hour and a half
drive because I don't minddriving, or maybe it means that
I'm the one that's alwayscooking because I don't mind
cooking, or maybe it means thatI'm the person that walks to
meet you because I don't mindwalking, like there are all
these things that are within therealm of my ability.
But overall I wasn't looking athow Loving in this way was
(03:04):
snipping at my time and spaceand ability to be with self, and
so it was a bit of a little bitof a rabbit hole for me to sort
of get myself out of.
I didn't know it was happeningair quotes until I was already
lost, and what I mean by loss iswhen you love other people and
(03:25):
you lose yourself in the process, you become really codependent,
and so when those friendshipsor relationships start to fall
apart, you feel a certainheartbreak, almost feels like
you'll never be on the otherside of it.
You'll never be on the otherside of it, and I know
(03:48):
television makes it sound likethat's the way it is, but it's
really not that way Like we getto love hard while not
abandoning ourselves, not losingourselves, being able to grieve
something if it ends and stillbe intact, like heartbreak
doesn't kill you, but what wehave it mean, especially if
(04:10):
we've lost ourselves, that isnot freedom.
I love that Well.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I was going to ask you how do you do that?
You gave such a beautiful introand I'm like genuinely curious
how, how Catherine does that?
How do you love hard becauseyou really do and also not lose
yourself in the process?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
For me it really looks like, first and foremost,
seeing everyone like a spark ofGod.
Spark of God.
It's so, so important that Isee everyone in my life as
capable, as loved by a higherpower, so that I understand that
there is my business, theirbusiness and God's business.
(05:00):
It's so important.
It's a Byron Katie thing to say, and I'm sort of pointing to
her book, but that was the way Ilearned.
I learned like, oh, this reallyfeels important, this is really
important in that person's life.
I really want to overextend andhelp them here, but this is
really their opportunity and ifI do it for them, I in the short
(05:24):
term term, help them but in thelong term, hurt them, because
this is one of the opportunitieswhere they can step up for
themselves and learn theirlesson.
But the next time that thatopportunity shows up, it might
be really painful, like 10 timesmore painful than what I'm
trying to save them from rightnow.
(05:45):
Like they're able, they'reskilled, like they're a child of
God.
How can they not?
How is this not in the realm ofpossibility for them?
And if it isn't, at what pointdo they learn?
If it isn't, at what point dothey learn?
(06:05):
And so how can I love themwhere they are, not overextend
myself, not lose myself inwanting to fix something and
just have it be?
How can I say no, I'll meet youhalfway.
You meet me halfway, eventhough I know that for me it's
not a big deal?
(06:26):
Like how can I implement moreof those moments?
That was important.
That's how I do it, or how I'vedone it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
That's so beautiful.
When you say you love big andyou love hard, this is big and
hard baby, it really is.
I mean wow, it really is.
(07:00):
I mean wow, you love so bigthat you are seeing people as a
spark of God first, where youdon't need to change their
experience, make it better forthem, and I know you've done the
work with your own system to beable to handle that yourself,
to be able to handle somebodyelse's discomfort.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yes, I wanted to say that, yes, I have done a lot of
regulation around my nervoussystem, because one of the
things where I was not free isif I was seeing someone go
through something, I wanted tojump in right.
It's like, oh my God, jump inRight.
It's like, oh my God, they'redrowning.
It's like, no, catherine,nobody's drowning, they're human
above water.
Nobody's drowning, they arefine.
(07:33):
And so it's like how can Iregulate my own nervous system?
How can I be solid and groundedin my person while also
witnessing them in whatever messthey're in?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
that's some incredible trust and faith in
the journey and trust and faithin God.
And I would, I would say, andI'm going to ask you this maybe
the real freedom and you canconfirm or deny is that seeing
yourself as a spark of God first.
(08:10):
Does that come first?
I think what came first is.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
This is an interesting question.
Thank you, I appreciate this.
It's having me think.
So it's more of like a chicken,chicken or which one came first
, sort of a question.
I don't know if I was like, oh,I'm a spark of God.
So it's a few parts, because Ithink in the past it was just I
don't want to rob someone oftheir experience and in doing
(08:41):
that, found so much freedom inletting go of somebody else's
outcome and allowing them to bethe masters of their life.
That's what it looked like afew years back and learning to
be and sit with the discomfort.
And in the beginning it waslike, oh my God, I could see the
train wrecks and I had to beuncomfortable with the train
wrecks.
I'm like, oh, I want to jump in, I want to jump in.
It makes me think of doubleDutch, when you're just sort of
(09:04):
like weaning in and out, wantingto jump in.
Not that I know how to doubleDutch, but I've seen the women
do that and that's how it feels,how they're doing it.
It feels that sort of thedouble-dutch.
But now, at this location,where I'm at a different level,
where the experience is, I'mreally being with what?
(09:28):
If everything is perfect.
I can't even believe I'm theperson that's asking these
questions now.
I don't.
I'm just so proud of theversions of me that came before
that I'm even here at thislocation.
But I'm really starting to lookat and there's a huge titter,
totter, like seesaw actioninside of me sometimes where I'm
(09:50):
like, oh, I really messed upover there.
No, I didn't mess up, it wasperfect.
Oh, I really messed up overthere.
No, I didn't mess up, it wasperfect.
Oh, I really messed up overthere.
No, I didn't mess up, it wasperfect.
Sitting with.
What if every decision I'veever made was the best one?
And if that's the case, thenthat's not just the case for me,
that's the case for everyone.
What if every decisioneverybody has made is the best
(10:12):
one for them, their highest selfand their growth?
That's one of the newer stagesthat I've had, one of the newer
learnings, lessons, landingsthat's happened for me, and in
that that means that there'sthis divine intelligence web
thread.
That's happening.
That's way beyond anything mymind could wrap itself around.
(10:32):
That's happening.
That's way beyond anything mymind could wrap itself around.
And if I am living in thisamazing intelligence or amazing
universe full of all thisintelligence, I'm not here alone
.
So is everybody else.
So there's the spark of God,and we're just all chilling in
this miraculous world, and so Iget to experience miracles, they
(10:54):
get to experience miracles.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Everybody gets to experience miracles like that.
That's gorgeous.
I kind of picture us all at thebeach, on the cosmic beach.
We're just like chilling andGod is up there just sprinkling
down the miracle vibes I meanfrom that place that you
describe what.
Where I go to from there is whoam I to interfere?
Who am I to put my will orinterrupt somebody's process?
(11:22):
That's where I go from there.
So thank you for sharing all ofthat.
Let's just take it one stepfurther, because this is so
interesting, and if I'm curious,then our listeners must be
curious too.
We're talking about freedom.
So what kind of freedom doesthat give you in your life and
(11:42):
in your relationships, when youare seeing everyone as a spark
of God and allowing not evenallowing?
It's like who are you to evenallow?
Not even allowing?
It's like who are you to evenallow?
Just seeing every decision andeverything that everyone's ever
done as the right, best decision, so much approval on the path.
What?
What freedom does that give you?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
oh, my goodness it's.
It's sort of like there's somuch surrender, there's so much
flow, because there's nothing togrip to, there's no gripping,
there's no like.
Oh, this has to feel or lookthis way, or this person should
be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,like, yes, I have opinions and
(12:25):
right now, even though I haveopinions, I'm always like and
this is my limited mind Like Ijust don't know Right, because I
am in no way my human, is in noway, shape or form, able to
compete with somebody's higherself or God.
Like they've got this handled.
(12:48):
It's as if I'm at a play andsomeone looks like they're about
to fall off the edge of thestage and then all of a sudden,
zoop, those zip lines just pullsthe person up and it's like
here I was in the audience, soworried and they were just so
handled and so taken care of, orthey fall and because of the
(13:10):
fall, the next thing I knowthere's a zip line there for
them.
It's learning that.
It doesn't matter that I'm notpart of that.
Like I get to witness it andlove them, whether they fell or
they had the secured line.
That's my only job.
Like it's as if I am anemployee and my life or my job
(13:34):
just my job title got so muchlighter, like the only thing I
need to do is just love people.
That's it.
Like I don't have to figure itout or decide if their life
works or doesn't work or any ofthose things.
I get to just witness and behappy for whatever they have.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Thank you so much for sharing that.
And just so everyone knows,catherine is in pure glowy smile
right now.
We're on video because, yeah,we haven't quite figured out how
to bring video to you.
We're just not there yet.
Talk about honoring ourcapacity.
Now that's freedom, right?
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.
It's really quite beautiful.
What's coming to me is how Ilove my adult children now in
(14:19):
that particular way.
I don't think I had that peacewhen they were growing up.
I had to learn that along theway, which I feel that I really
did, and wow, what a differenceit makes, because the way the
generational pattern goes in myfamily is, you know, there's a
lot of doting and being involvedand I think in many families,
like micromanaging andcontrolling and putting your
(14:41):
opinion on what you think thekids should do, and gosh, I
don't do that at all.
I mean that would be reallysquashing.
I really subscribe to thisbeautiful vision that you're
talking about of just trustingthat my children and people, my
clients I mean I could focus itin on motherhood, because it's
(15:03):
actually my most pure exampleare just living their lives and
they have everything they needand trusting that I've given
them everything they need andtheir father has given them
everything they need and I'veprovided everything that I
possibly can along the way,which has been my biggest
intention at Hope.
And now they get to live theirlives and honestly, I learned
(15:28):
when they were teenagers, when Istarted my personal development
journey oh, the less Iinterfere, the better it
actually is.
They have really developed astrong sense of self and they
know how to fall and fail,because I haven't shielded them
from that, them from that, andthat's painful.
(15:49):
I think that's really one ofthe most painful spots as a
mother and I would guess as afather as well is seeing your
kids falling and hurting, and Ithink that's why a lot of
parents interfere.
But this idea that you'retalking about is something
that's just so beautiful.
It really encourages people tobe who they truly are and be the
(16:12):
fullest expression of ourselves, which is, I believe, what we
all want.
We all want that kind offreedom.
To me, that's really freedomwhen I could fully be myself.
And then, as a mother, I thinkthat's my greatest role,
especially with adult children.
Greatest role, especially withadult children how do I show up
(16:36):
for them with pure, freakinglove and admiration and approval
, never interfering with theirprocess.
It's quite beautiful, it'sreally quite beautiful, and
they're both successful in theirlife.
It's a beautiful thing to see,when you curate this in your
(16:57):
life, in your relationships,that there really is fruit on
the other side.
And we think that letting go isscary and people are going to
get hurt.
We have to save them fromthemselves.
And it's actually not true whatyou're pointing to.
The opposite is actually true.
You're actually giving someonethe gift of being their true
(17:20):
selves, living their true life,learning their life lessons
along the way.
By not saving them.
That's freedom.
By not saving them, that'sfreedom.
And it's freedom for you too,because then you get to live
your life.
How many mothers do I see ofadult children who are just
still all in their kids' lives?
(17:42):
They don't even have their ownlife.
It's a great distraction andit's really a disservice.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
And it's really a disservice.
It's a disservice to yourself,it's a disservice to your
children to not so you said youshow up fully, do your best in
that way for your children andyour clients, and then they can
see it modeled, they can seewhat it looks like, they can see
someone taking responsibility.
I, too, do the same.
(18:24):
One of the things that wascoming up for me when you were
talking was like oh yes, I doget to exercise the muscle of
sharing and guiding rightthrough my work and it's taking
me some time to learn to not dothat in my private life.
Right, there is a learningthere.
Like there are people that payus to ask us hey, what's your
(18:46):
site?
What do you see?
And then there are people thatare literally not paying and not
asking, and that is to behonored.
They're not looking to be held,they're not asking for help
with their path.
Those people in our life areusually just wanting to be loved
and seen for who they are.
(19:08):
Not that our clients don't wantto be loved and seen they do as
well but they are investingtheir time, their money and
they've chosen.
Oh, I want you to walk thispath with me, which is very
different than us injectingourselves in someone's life,
like, hey, this is what I thinkand this is what I, these are my
opinions and this is why myopinions are right, et cetera.
(19:30):
That's not it.
Versus with our, and even withour clients, we aren't doing
that right.
We're sort of helping themexcavate what they want, helping
them come to what's freedom forthem, helping them see what are
the sticky parts that arehappening in their life and how
can they have more clarity there.
How can they have less guiltand shame, less people pleasing,
(19:51):
better boundaries, more clarity.
We hold the space for that, forthose things to evolve and be
seen for them.
But with our loved ones, it'smore of you're a loved one, not
a client.
How do I just love you here,and what a gorgeous thing to
give someone.
Just love you here, and what agorgeous thing to give someone.
(20:17):
So we started off today talkingabout, like, how to love
someone without losing yourselfand how loving someone without
losing yourself is true, trulyfreedom, and we're we're just
loving, talking about freedom,and if there's anything in
today's episode that resonatedwith you, we love, we would love
to hear from you.
This is such a big topic.
Everything is relationship,really Relationship to self,
(20:38):
relationship to other.
Thanks so much for listening.
Until next time.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked peace.
That is often overlooked beingresponsible for our desire.
Welcome back.
(01:35):
I am so excited, for todaywe're going to go down the story
hole.
So we've been talking aboutfreedom and what is freedom,
what's true freedom, what'sfalse freedom, and we want to
give you some examples.
One that I resonate with deeplyis like loving without losing
yourself.
I love really hard and I reallywant to make sure that the
people that I love are good andsafe.
And there was a time in my lifewhen I would just overextend,
(02:00):
but it was a tricky, trickyoverextend because I have a lot
of stamina and ability.
So I'm overextending but I'mwithin my capacity, and it took
me some time to figure out thatI was not within my capacity.
But by the time I could figureit out, I was already too far
gone.
Let me show you how.
(02:20):
So technically, it's like I wasloving while losing myself.
So that looks like if I wasgoing to meet up with friends,
let's say, I could drive thewhole way.
I don't have to drive halfway.
Right, it's not a big deal, butI can do it.
(02:41):
So, instead of it being like,maybe so it's an hour and a half
drive because I don't minddriving, or maybe it means that
I'm the one that's alwayscooking because I don't mind
cooking, or maybe it means thatI'm the person that walks to
meet you because I don't mindwalking, like there are all
these things that are within therealm of my ability.
But overall I wasn't looking athow Loving in this way was
(03:04):
snipping at my time and spaceand ability to be with self, and
so it was a bit of a little bitof a rabbit hole for me to sort
of get myself out of.
I didn't know it was happeningair quotes until I was already
lost, and what I mean by loss iswhen you love other people and
(03:25):
you lose yourself in the process, you become really codependent,
and so when those friendshipsor relationships start to fall
apart, you feel a certainheartbreak, almost feels like
you'll never be on the otherside of it.
You'll never be on the otherside of it, and I know
(03:48):
television makes it sound likethat's the way it is, but it's
really not that way Like we getto love hard while not
abandoning ourselves, not losingourselves, being able to grieve
something if it ends and stillbe intact, like heartbreak
doesn't kill you, but what wehave it mean, especially if
(04:10):
we've lost ourselves, that isnot freedom.
I love that Well.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I was going to ask you how do you do that?
You gave such a beautiful introand I'm like genuinely curious
how, how Catherine does that?
How do you love hard becauseyou really do and also not lose
yourself in the process?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
For me it really looks like, first and foremost,
seeing everyone like a spark ofGod.
Spark of God.
It's so, so important that Isee everyone in my life as
capable, as loved by a higherpower, so that I understand that
there is my business, theirbusiness and God's business.
(05:00):
It's so important.
It's a Byron Katie thing to say, and I'm sort of pointing to
her book, but that was the way Ilearned.
I learned like, oh, this reallyfeels important, this is really
important in that person's life.
I really want to overextend andhelp them here, but this is
really their opportunity and ifI do it for them, I in the short
(05:24):
term term, help them but in thelong term, hurt them, because
this is one of the opportunitieswhere they can step up for
themselves and learn theirlesson.
But the next time that thatopportunity shows up, it might
be really painful, like 10 timesmore painful than what I'm
trying to save them from rightnow.
(05:45):
Like they're able, they'reskilled, like they're a child of
God.
How can they not?
How is this not in the realm ofpossibility for them?
And if it isn't, at what pointdo they learn?
If it isn't, at what point dothey learn?
(06:05):
And so how can I love themwhere they are, not overextend
myself, not lose myself inwanting to fix something and
just have it be?
How can I say no, I'll meet youhalfway.
You meet me halfway, eventhough I know that for me it's
not a big deal?
(06:26):
Like how can I implement moreof those moments?
That was important.
That's how I do it, or how I'vedone it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
That's so beautiful.
When you say you love big andyou love hard, this is big and
hard baby, it really is.
I mean wow, it really is.
(07:00):
I mean wow, you love so bigthat you are seeing people as a
spark of God first, where youdon't need to change their
experience, make it better forthem, and I know you've done the
work with your own system to beable to handle that yourself,
to be able to handle somebodyelse's discomfort.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yes, I wanted to say that, yes, I have done a lot of
regulation around my nervoussystem, because one of the
things where I was not free isif I was seeing someone go
through something, I wanted tojump in right.
It's like, oh my God, jump inRight.
It's like, oh my God, they'redrowning.
It's like, no, catherine,nobody's drowning, they're human
above water.
Nobody's drowning, they arefine.
(07:33):
And so it's like how can Iregulate my own nervous system?
How can I be solid and groundedin my person while also
witnessing them in whatever messthey're in?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
that's some incredible trust and faith in
the journey and trust and faithin God.
And I would, I would say, andI'm going to ask you this maybe
the real freedom and you canconfirm or deny is that seeing
yourself as a spark of God first.
(08:10):
Does that come first?
I think what came first is.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
This is an interesting question.
Thank you, I appreciate this.
It's having me think.
So it's more of like a chicken,chicken or which one came first
, sort of a question.
I don't know if I was like, oh,I'm a spark of God.
So it's a few parts, because Ithink in the past it was just I
don't want to rob someone oftheir experience and in doing
(08:41):
that, found so much freedom inletting go of somebody else's
outcome and allowing them to bethe masters of their life.
That's what it looked like afew years back and learning to
be and sit with the discomfort.
And in the beginning it waslike, oh my God, I could see the
train wrecks and I had to beuncomfortable with the train
wrecks.
I'm like, oh, I want to jump in, I want to jump in.
It makes me think of doubleDutch, when you're just sort of
(09:04):
like weaning in and out, wantingto jump in.
Not that I know how to doubleDutch, but I've seen the women
do that and that's how it feels,how they're doing it.
It feels that sort of thedouble-dutch.
But now, at this location,where I'm at a different level,
where the experience is, I'mreally being with what?
(09:28):
If everything is perfect.
I can't even believe I'm theperson that's asking these
questions now.
I don't.
I'm just so proud of theversions of me that came before
that I'm even here at thislocation.
But I'm really starting to lookat and there's a huge titter,
totter, like seesaw actioninside of me sometimes where I'm
(09:50):
like, oh, I really messed upover there.
No, I didn't mess up, it wasperfect.
Oh, I really messed up overthere.
No, I didn't mess up, it wasperfect.
Oh, I really messed up overthere.
No, I didn't mess up, it wasperfect.
Sitting with.
What if every decision I'veever made was the best one?
And if that's the case, thenthat's not just the case for me,
that's the case for everyone.
What if every decisioneverybody has made is the best
(10:12):
one for them, their highest selfand their growth?
That's one of the newer stagesthat I've had, one of the newer
learnings, lessons, landingsthat's happened for me, and in
that that means that there'sthis divine intelligence web
thread.
That's happening.
That's way beyond anything mymind could wrap itself around.
(10:32):
That's happening.
That's way beyond anything mymind could wrap itself around.
And if I am living in thisamazing intelligence or amazing
universe full of all thisintelligence, I'm not here alone
.
So is everybody else.
So there's the spark of God,and we're just all chilling in
this miraculous world, and so Iget to experience miracles, they
(10:54):
get to experience miracles.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Everybody gets to experience miracles like that.
That's gorgeous.
I kind of picture us all at thebeach, on the cosmic beach.
We're just like chilling andGod is up there just sprinkling
down the miracle vibes I meanfrom that place that you
describe what.
Where I go to from there is whoam I to interfere?
Who am I to put my will orinterrupt somebody's process?
(11:22):
That's where I go from there.
So thank you for sharing all ofthat.
Let's just take it one stepfurther, because this is so
interesting, and if I'm curious,then our listeners must be
curious too.
We're talking about freedom.
So what kind of freedom doesthat give you in your life and
(11:42):
in your relationships, when youare seeing everyone as a spark
of God and allowing not evenallowing?
It's like who are you to evenallow?
Not even allowing?
It's like who are you to evenallow?
Just seeing every decision andeverything that everyone's ever
done as the right, best decision, so much approval on the path.
What?
What freedom does that give you?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
oh, my goodness it's.
It's sort of like there's somuch surrender, there's so much
flow, because there's nothing togrip to, there's no gripping,
there's no like.
Oh, this has to feel or lookthis way, or this person should
be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,like, yes, I have opinions and
(12:25):
right now, even though I haveopinions, I'm always like and
this is my limited mind Like Ijust don't know Right, because I
am in no way my human, is in noway, shape or form, able to
compete with somebody's higherself or God.
Like they've got this handled.
(12:48):
It's as if I'm at a play andsomeone looks like they're about
to fall off the edge of thestage and then all of a sudden,
zoop, those zip lines just pullsthe person up and it's like
here I was in the audience, soworried and they were just so
handled and so taken care of, orthey fall and because of the
(13:10):
fall, the next thing I knowthere's a zip line there for
them.
It's learning that.
It doesn't matter that I'm notpart of that.
Like I get to witness it andlove them, whether they fell or
they had the secured line.
That's my only job.
Like it's as if I am anemployee and my life or my job
(13:34):
just my job title got so muchlighter, like the only thing I
need to do is just love people.
That's it.
Like I don't have to figure itout or decide if their life
works or doesn't work or any ofthose things.
I get to just witness and behappy for whatever they have.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Thank you so much for sharing that.
And just so everyone knows,catherine is in pure glowy smile
right now.
We're on video because, yeah,we haven't quite figured out how
to bring video to you.
We're just not there yet.
Talk about honoring ourcapacity.
Now that's freedom, right?
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.
It's really quite beautiful.
What's coming to me is how Ilove my adult children now in
(14:19):
that particular way.
I don't think I had that peacewhen they were growing up.
I had to learn that along theway, which I feel that I really
did, and wow, what a differenceit makes, because the way the
generational pattern goes in myfamily is, you know, there's a
lot of doting and being involvedand I think in many families,
like micromanaging andcontrolling and putting your
(14:41):
opinion on what you think thekids should do, and gosh, I
don't do that at all.
I mean that would be reallysquashing.
I really subscribe to thisbeautiful vision that you're
talking about of just trustingthat my children and people, my
clients I mean I could focus itin on motherhood, because it's
(15:03):
actually my most pure exampleare just living their lives and
they have everything they needand trusting that I've given
them everything they need andtheir father has given them
everything they need and I'veprovided everything that I
possibly can along the way,which has been my biggest
intention at Hope.
And now they get to live theirlives and honestly, I learned
(15:28):
when they were teenagers, when Istarted my personal development
journey oh, the less Iinterfere, the better it
actually is.
They have really developed astrong sense of self and they
know how to fall and fail,because I haven't shielded them
from that, them from that, andthat's painful.
(15:49):
I think that's really one ofthe most painful spots as a
mother and I would guess as afather as well is seeing your
kids falling and hurting, and Ithink that's why a lot of
parents interfere.
But this idea that you'retalking about is something
that's just so beautiful.
It really encourages people tobe who they truly are and be the
(16:12):
fullest expression of ourselves, which is, I believe, what we
all want.
We all want that kind offreedom.
To me, that's really freedomwhen I could fully be myself.
And then, as a mother, I thinkthat's my greatest role,
especially with adult children.
Greatest role, especially withadult children how do I show up
(16:36):
for them with pure, freakinglove and admiration and approval
, never interfering with theirprocess.
It's quite beautiful, it'sreally quite beautiful, and
they're both successful in theirlife.
It's a beautiful thing to see,when you curate this in your
(16:57):
life, in your relationships,that there really is fruit on
the other side.
And we think that letting go isscary and people are going to
get hurt.
We have to save them fromthemselves.
And it's actually not true whatyou're pointing to.
The opposite is actually true.
You're actually giving someonethe gift of being their true
(17:20):
selves, living their true life,learning their life lessons
along the way.
By not saving them.
That's freedom.
By not saving them, that'sfreedom.
And it's freedom for you too,because then you get to live
your life.
How many mothers do I see ofadult children who are just
still all in their kids' lives?
(17:42):
They don't even have their ownlife.
It's a great distraction andit's really a disservice.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
And it's really a disservice.
It's a disservice to yourself,it's a disservice to your
children to not so you said youshow up fully, do your best in
that way for your children andyour clients, and then they can
see it modeled, they can seewhat it looks like, they can see
someone taking responsibility.
I, too, do the same.
(18:24):
One of the things that wascoming up for me when you were
talking was like oh yes, I doget to exercise the muscle of
sharing and guiding rightthrough my work and it's taking
me some time to learn to not dothat in my private life.
Right, there is a learningthere.
Like there are people that payus to ask us hey, what's your
(18:46):
site?
What do you see?
And then there are people thatare literally not paying and not
asking, and that is to behonored.
They're not looking to be held,they're not asking for help
with their path.
Those people in our life areusually just wanting to be loved
and seen for who they are.
(19:08):
Not that our clients don't wantto be loved and seen they do as
well but they are investingtheir time, their money and
they've chosen.
Oh, I want you to walk thispath with me, which is very
different than us injectingourselves in someone's life,
like, hey, this is what I thinkand this is what I, these are my
opinions and this is why myopinions are right, et cetera.
(19:30):
That's not it.
Versus with our, and even withour clients, we aren't doing
that right.
We're sort of helping themexcavate what they want, helping
them come to what's freedom forthem, helping them see what are
the sticky parts that arehappening in their life and how
can they have more clarity there.
How can they have less guiltand shame, less people pleasing,
(19:51):
better boundaries, more clarity.
We hold the space for that, forthose things to evolve and be
seen for them.
But with our loved ones, it'smore of you're a loved one, not
a client.
How do I just love you here,and what a gorgeous thing to
give someone.
Just love you here, and what agorgeous thing to give someone.
(20:17):
So we started off today talkingabout, like, how to love
someone without losing yourselfand how loving someone without
losing yourself is true, trulyfreedom, and we're we're just
loving, talking about freedom,and if there's anything in
today's episode that resonatedwith you, we love, we would love
to hear from you.
This is such a big topic.
Everything is relationship,really Relationship to self,
(20:38):
relationship to other.
Thanks so much for listening.
Until next time.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.