Destiny Digest #113: Bungie's New Management & Community Power Struggles

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
Hello everybody, and welcome to episode 113 of the Destiny
Digest podcast. My name's Sanfinity and this
week it's we got a bare bones crew here that I, I think like,
we got me, we got, we got you tiddly.
Welcome. How are you tonight?

(00:34):
Glad to have you. How's how's your week going?
Good good friend. Good.
Yeah, good. It's been a pretty low Newsweek
in Destiny, so pretty slow. Yeah.
Definitely didn't scare off all the other Co hosts by saying it
was going to be an extra long episode.
No, I definitely didn't say thatthis.
Could. Possibly be a three hour
episode. Yeah.

(00:54):
And then like just by. Itself because of all the news
and everything. And then, yeah.
And then like, people were like,why?
I've got a I've got a. Sorry, my goldfish is on fire.
Got to wash my hair that night. For a walk.
Yeah, epic. Dan was like, I got to wash my
hair that night. I don't think I can do it.
Stuff was like, I'm probably going to be reading a book,

(01:16):
Sorry. It's actually accurate, Yeah.
Anyway, Hello. Hello.
Hello. Hello, welcome in everybody.
Yes, just the two of us tonight.Madelat, good to see you.
So before we get into what all we did this week, let's do a
little bit of housekeeping here.You can now join us live every

(01:36):
Sunday night around 3:30 PM Pacific and 6:30 PM Eastern on
twitch.tv/destiny Digest. You can ask questions live in
the chat and help us shape the conversation around this week's
Going Going zones episodes go live the next day on YouTube,
Apple podcast, Spotify and pocket cast or wherever you
listen to podcasts. And you can help others find the

(01:59):
show by rating and reviewing theshow on your podcast platform of
choice. I was doing a little bit of the
of the check this week. We are we are getting ever so
closer to the watch hours for even like the full partnership.
We just have to get the followers on that.
And so yeah, it's, it's crazy. Thank you guys so much for for

(02:19):
listen to listening to us, Yeah,for so long every week.
We appreciate you guys so tiddly.
Yes. How has your week been in games?
It's been really good, Dan, actually, I actually mostly have
been playing, mostly been playing Destiny.
I actually leveled a little moreso.

(02:42):
Perfect. I know, I actually I guess guess
how many solo activities I've done now.
I'll let I'll let you ballpark. Without looking it up, yes, I'm
going to say, OK, so it was one last week.
Yes, it was 1. OK, I'm going to say you're

(03:02):
somewhere between the 15 and 20 range.
I mean kind of I think, I think I'm up to like 8.
Okay, all right, Yeah, I was, I was trying to be, I was trying
to be generous here because I was like, well, like how much
time, how much like patience andtime would I have to do to do
that this week? No, not much, not much.

(03:24):
So yeah, But I, so I, I, I, yeah, definitely not the sole
activities are still not for me for leveling, but I did hop in
and do actually surprisingly, shockingly, I did trials and I
did PvP. So I did like a day where I did
PvP leveling and that was actually pretty fruitful.
I think I gave like 35 levels, right.

(03:44):
So I think I'm in, Oh my goodness.
I think I'm like in the two hundreds now.
It's like 2230. So I'm feeling, I'm feeling like
more more leveled, but right still I don't know.
I don't know still. Yeah, what Guardian rank are you
right now? Oh, that's, that's the whole
thing. I think I'm 5 and apparently you

(04:06):
have to be higher guardian rank also for.
I don't know, I'm like, OK, I'llwork on that too, I guess.
You know, the thing that was holding me back from hitting
five, it was doing three solo activities.
Yeah, that was the only thing I I was missing, so that was
really good. So I, I at least I have a theme.
Yeah. Perfect.
Although, although literally revealing, revealing my friend,

(04:29):
he this week, he was like, you know, the community is all
complaining about leveling. He's like, you should just do it
the totally way and just not do it.
You don't have to worry about it.
Yeah. And I'm like he's he's like, you
know, I think you got it right. I think you got the whole thing
right. Like you're not stressed.
You're doing whatever you want in the game.
You know, you're having a good time, you know, and you're not

(04:50):
leveling. And that's that's just the
totally way, apparently. But yeah, I know I did I did
succumb. I did I did some leveling, but I
did it. I did it in PvP, which was
actually like way more fun because, you know, as you know,
it's fun to play and hang out with people on stream.
So I was able to do PvP with friends.
Although trials, I have to say, I have to say was pretty

(05:11):
terrible. Definitely got I don't we didn't
I don't think we run rounds. I don't think we want a single
game, though I mean we're doing it for leveling and the leveling
was very good. The souls are really good.
The leveling was really good, but the the actual the actual
matchmaking was very much like bad.
Yeah, at least at least for me. We got we got shit on, to put it

(05:33):
politely. So it's OK, but yeah, what else?
What else this week? So did another 5 feet.
I'm really liking those. That was really fun.
So kind of like going through. I did mine last week.
I took two more gamers through this week, doing another one for
two more of my friends this Friday.
So but I'm really enjoying that.Also got Oh my goodness, the

(05:58):
crossbow is so good. It's so good.
The great crossbow is so good. We were talking about that a
little bit before, before we gotthe digest going, but apparently
vorpal is broken and it's giving35% more damage than it than
intended. So if you get a field prep for

(06:18):
ammo with purple and then what the mod is, there's a mod that
temporal blast, I think temporalblast, temporal blast.
You do like I think 8K damage and then it does an additional
amount of damage, but it is it cooks.
It's really, really good and it's so much fun and it
literally is holding left click.So it's like as easy, as easy
damage as you can possibly get. So I got a God role on that one

(06:42):
and I got a God role on like thefusion fusion also, which I know
some people have been looking for for damage loadouts.
So I'm still looking for a good SMG role, but it feels really
good because even like I know, Iknow I haven't been leveling,
but even doing like the five feet raids, I've been getting
like Tier 4 like raid loot and that's feeling really rewarding.

(07:03):
Like I'm feeling really good about that.
Like I'm like 200 and 32140 whatever.
Right now. I'm still getting like tier
fours from doing like challenging raid contest.
So I'm not actually really enjoying that.
And the crossbow chef's kiss, like I know they're going to
nerf it. I know they're going to take my
toy away from me and that's OK. I'm just trying to use it and
enjoy it as long as I possibly can.
So that's fantastic. How was your week in gaming,

(07:26):
Dan? My week in gaming was really
good. I actually like so my character,
where am I at? I'm up to like 330 now and I'm
looking at like account level, account level and, and character
level 330I. I didn't really focus a lot on
Destiny this week. We we played a little bit on on

(07:49):
Tuesday. We my week in gaming was tied
very closely to the to the charity event that we were doing
this week. Like we, we just wrapped that
up. We hit our goal.
It was it was awesome. It was really, really.
Cool. Congratulations.
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, so like we did that.
That was great. We did.

(08:11):
We did a four feet raid on Tuesday.
I've yet to do the five feet. Nice.
I did get the shader so that wasgood.
OK. Yeah, got the shader for for
doing, grabbing all the like little collectibles and
everything in there. So that was that was neat.
We did. What else did we do?

(08:32):
Yeah. I Thursday I took a break from
Destiny because I was like, I deserve it.
This is I deserve this for myself.
And I played, I played Sword of the Sea, which is a game by
Giant squid. It just came out on Tuesday.
The game is about 30 bucks. I believe that it shows up on

(08:53):
that. It's on PlayStation and steam
right now. It's a it's a game that's about
like 3 hours long and if you're familiar with any of of giant
squids games there, it's like Journey or AB Zoo or the
Pathless. It was.
It's this game where you this little soldier and you have a

(09:15):
sword, but you're not fighting with the sword.
Technically you're surfing on it.
And you do, you surf on these like huge dunes in this open air
in this first area. And you're, you're trying to
reintroduce the sea to this kindof like arid world.
And it's, it's super beautiful. Every time you like, you open a

(09:39):
section of water up where there used to be sand fish swim up and
out out of it. And so they're just swimming
through the air. And yeah, so you can hop on like
you can hop on sea turtles, you can hop on whales and stuff, and
they'll carry you around the level higher and higher as you
go up. Who's that?

(10:01):
He says. Tony Hawk's dune Skater.
Yeah, basically. Like Tony Hawk's dune skater,
it. Is it is so relaxing.
I was like, I was already going to play this game and like cuz
I've I've been on this game for like a year.
They they like when they announced it at like 1 of the
future games showcases, I was like, that looks really cool and
I really loved Journey and how how that played.

(10:25):
So I was like, this is this is an absolute must play for me.
And it didn't it didn't disappoint.
It was about 3 hours long. I think Dan Reigert from Giant
Bomb called it a video game screensaver, which is probably
like the best. Yeah, like.
It's a little short. Yeah, it's short, it's pretty

(10:47):
low stakes, Yeah. And I would definitely like play
through, play through it again. When I got done with the ending,
one of the developers came in tochat and was like, hey, thanks
for playing the game. So that was neat.
Awesome. Yeah, very cool.
Yeah, man, it was just like, that was such a good palate
cleanser from everything that has been going on in like

(11:10):
Destiny for me. Yeah, for sure.
I do have one question for you though, Dan.
Sure. So when does the plot around the
intergalactic battle for spice on a rackets come into the game?
I believe that comes in hour 4. I just haven't met made it that
like I rolled credits at hour 3 so I was like I mean.

(11:31):
You didn't quite get there I. Just couldn't quite, I just
didn't quite get there yet. And it was, you know, yeah, Then
the politics come into play. And then.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The space whales, the. Politics.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah. And so it was just, it's just
tough, just tough to know it's. Not I guess is there, is there
like a way to are there like triumphs or like things you need

(11:53):
to complete? Can you 100% it?
Like is it replayable? Yeah.
OK. So it's completely replayable.
Like my score at the end of the thing was like 233,000 and
something else, but like it doesn't really keep track of
that on the screen for you it's.Just like after.
Yeah, well, like when you pause,it shows up, but it's it's not
constantly up there for you. I think the the biggest thing

(12:15):
that was there was one room where you could hop in and
there's these jellyfish that youcan unlock and they they're just
little jump pads that you can jump from one to another.
And it had like a Tony Hawk level where it was like, OK, you
have to beat this score in this many seconds.
And so I just hopped on a jellyfish and just kept doing
tricks over and over again until.

(12:36):
Like fun. You like a little mini game?
Yeah. It was super fun.
I love that the environments were beautiful.
There's one environment in therethat's probably my favorite in
all of video games and like likeno lie whatsoever.
Like I there's a section. I don't want to give away too
much sure, but there's a sectionwhere you have to build the

(12:57):
bridge and you're building this bridge and like when you turn
the last lever on all of the world is just ocean, right?
And so you're you're surfing on it and out of nowhere is just
like it's it's night and these stars just start falling out of

(13:18):
the sky and into the ocean. So and they're like crashing all
around you and you're just kind of getting thrown by the ripples
every once in awhile. It was such a cool space and
such a cool feeling to go and dothat it was.
That's amazing. Loved it, just loved the entire.
Look at you, enjoying video games.

(13:39):
Yeah, it's almost like they're supposed to be fun and not
homework. Like they're supposed to be fun
and not causing constant consternation.
I don't. I don't think I've seen one bad
remark about sea, sort of the sea.
I don't think I have. I'm.
I'm sure somebody out there is just like.

(13:59):
Too short. Too short.
Like screensaver Too short? Don't like it?
No, but yeah, that was, that's, that's been my week pretty much
that. And I I did do some like I I
started hopping into Mass Effect2 again.
Oh wow. OK.
Just to like I'm doing some I'm doing some character missions in

(14:23):
there just to get get their loyalty up.
And so I think I ran like two orthree of those like over the
past couple of days and just really enjoyed it.
I think. I think it Miranda and liar.
I did the Liara mission from Mass Effect 2.
Have you ever played Mass Effect2 diddly?

(14:44):
I haven't, I'm very familiar with the series though.
Is this your first? Is this your first playthrough?
It's my first playthrough, like at this point, like OK, I, I, I
played through all of 1 on stream several years ago and I
got a little bit into two, but Inever like finished it out.
And so I'm treating it as my little treat to myself when I'm

(15:04):
not streaming is like I'm rolling through this and
experiencing it for myself and I'm having a lot of fun. 2 is
really great. It reminds me of The Expanse
quite a bit. Oh, I love that.
The tone of the writing and everything.
Or maybe The Expanse reminds me of.
Maybe. I mean, it's not like all of

(15:25):
these space epics are interconnected at all.
Yeah, not at all to. Influence each other, right?
Yeah, it was. It was.
It's just such, it's such a coolgame and I'm just enjoying my
time and not stressing the Destiny 2 grind too much because
I know that there's going to be a lot more of it and.
Oh, there will be, and then you're going to do more once the

(15:46):
next season hits. Yeah, and like I this week I'm
going to be gone to PAX W come find me in booth 1530 and I'm
not going to really have time togrind anyway.
So I was like last week there was very much like an
impermanence of like I, I'm justgoing to focus on the things
that I enjoy right now and then I'll come back to the grind

(16:08):
next, the week after next. That sounds a little like the
tiddly method, not going to lie.Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But also you, you forgot to to tell the audience about the
biggest sell about the the boothyou're going to be at at PAX.
Oh, there's going to be a yeah. So I am going to be at the
Seattle Humane booth on Friday and Saturday I think for at

(16:29):
least the first couple of hours of PAX West, and the biggest
sell is that they're going to have like a kitten cuddle
puddle. Kind of thing.
Cuddle. Puddle and like, I don't know
how many kittens are going to bethere, but there's going to be a
lot of them. And like Seattle, Humane's going
to have a bunch of stuff to giveaway to like they have.
Then they have things to sell there as well.

(16:52):
But yeah, I get to hang out withkittens.
Did you know that a group of kitchens is called a Clouder?
I had no idea that that was the thing, but now I know I like I.
I prefer cuddle puddle but. That's cuddle Puddle is great.
It's very descriptive. Yeah, I love.
I love Clouder too. Yeah.

(17:13):
So I'm, I'm very, I'm very excited about that.
And yeah, if you're out there, come and see me.
I will actually have like little, I have these little
heart pins that I that that I had made.
They're the first e-mail that I ever had made by Alicia Rose,
who designed those for me. So just come up and say hi and
I'll give you a pin if you if you say the magic word and that

(17:37):
is hi. So anyways, Destiny.
Destiny. Yeah, man.
So yeah. Man, there's some stuff to talk
about. There's some stuff to talk about
here. I think the first thing that we
should probably talk about, I know that there's a lot going on
and Rev will be joining us here shortly for, for the Twid

(18:00):
portion, for the Twid portion ofof our conversation.
Pete Parsons, man. Yes, yeah.
Big news, Big news. Yeah, for those not in the know,
so we received the Twid on Thursday, right?

(18:22):
Yeah, we received the Twid on Thursday and that kind of got
people up in a, in a rile and we'll talk, we'll talk about
that here in a second. But then like shortly afterward,
like this article came out, the Passing the Torch article, yes.

(18:44):
And I, I think I saw it like a minute after it launched and I
was like, oh boy. It was all over, everyone was
talking about it and instantly it was all over, Yeah.
Yeah, who knows if that was planned, if they knew that the
community reaction to the Twitter was gonna be so weird
that they were just like, you know what, let's soften the blow
a little bit. But yeah, so the passing of the

(19:08):
torch. A message from Pete Parsons to
the Bungie community. After more than two decades of
helping build this incredible studio, establishing the Bungie
Foundation, and growing inspiring communities around our
work, I have decided to pass thetorch.
This journey has been the honor of a lifetime.
I am deeply proud of the world'swe built together and the
millions of players who call them home.

(19:28):
And most of all, I am privilegedby the opportunity to work
alongside the incredible minds at Bungie.
When I was asked to lead Bungie in 2015, my goal was to grow us
into a studio capable of creating a sustaining, iconic
generation expanding entertainment.
We've been through so much together.
We launched a bold new chapter of Destiny, built in an enviable

(19:48):
independent live OPS organization capable of creating
and publishing its own games, and joined the incredible family
at Sony Interactive Entertainment.
Today marks the right time for anew beginning.
The future of Bungie will be in the hands of a new generation of
leaders, and I am thrilled to announce that Justin Truman will
be stepping into leadership at Bungie's new studio.

(20:09):
As Bungie's new studio head, Notice no CEO there.
I've worked alongside Justin formany years.
His passion for our games, our team, and our players is
unmatched. As a leader in engineering,
production and design, and most recently as the General Manager
for Destiny 2 and our Chief Development Officer, he has
been. Instrumental in bringing some of

(20:30):
the most memorable moments in Bungie's history to life.
He lives and breathes this studio and I have full
confidence that he isn't the right person to lead Bungie
Ford. Thank you for being the best,
most compassionate community in gaming.
It's it has been a privilege to serve you.
As for me, I'll be the second star to the right and straight

(20:50):
on until morning. And I believe that after he
wrote this, he he pantomimed like he pantomimed his hands on
a wheel and he went vroom, vroomand he just drove off out of his
office after his cars after, yeah, all of them were in a
line. All the cars following.
All the cars, all the cars were in a line and he was at the

(21:13):
front of them and he had he had little leather gloves on and he
just goes vroom, vroom and he drove them off.
Indeed, I this is this, this is weird because this is something
that like, I think the communityhas been clamoring for for quite
some time. The.
Community has been asking for this for a while.
I think. I think that he was, it was just

(21:35):
very, his handling of the layoffs was a very tone deaf.
And I think that combined with like and that that was just just
really, really poorly handled. And then I think that a lot of
people blame a lot of issues with the game in general on the
C-Suite and not on the developers in general and
Bungie. And so I think that Pete Parsons
in particular has taken a lot ofcritique and I think that with

(21:59):
Sony taking over this, this is something the community has
wanted. So I, I, I don't think anyone is
sad. Everyone's like, Oh well,
anyway, you know, So I think that the the chatter that I've
been hearing is that people are slightly concerned about the new
studio lead because there was some PR drama.

(22:22):
Yeah, back in 2023. Correct.
So it's been a minute. It's been a minute.
But he he did say he did warn live service games not to over
deliver. So maybe we can talk about that
for a quick second. So there's like, I think
there's, there's, there's, there's this concern because he
made that comment about what that's going to mean now that
he's the lead for the studio. Right.

(22:44):
Yeah, going back to Pete for a little bit.
Sure. Like one of the things that I've
seen a lot from people who endedup leaving the studio because of
the layoffs yes we're like Ding Dong the witch is dead.
Like I believe that Liana like posted that shortly after, yeah,
Pete left. Yeah, man, I like, I feel like

(23:05):
that's a cloud that's that's, that is least passed from the
studio a little bit. And maybe we'll see something
from that something that I've like, cuz he was the CEO, right?
Like he was the I believe he wasthe CEO.
I believe he was the CEO, yeah. Yes, yeah, but now.
But now like, Justin Truman willbe the studio head like.

(23:27):
Right. It's an interesting like that
you noted like the titles, I didn't actually notice that
before. I wonder if that means that
they're still doing like ACEO search, just generally.
I don't think so, no. I think what we're.
I think what we're. Seeing structure because of
Sony. Yeah.
I think what we're seeing is like the CFO from Sony, several,
like several a couple weeks back, we talked about this was

(23:48):
like, hey, so Bungie was independent and that was one way
of thinking. But now they're not going to be
independent and we're going to fold them into PlayStation
Studios and like figure out whatthat means.
And I think that this is just that transition.
That transition, yeah. Yeah, like.
Independence to under the umbrella so that they're
reporting. Yeah.
I mean, I, it could be. It could be.

(24:10):
I mean, I, I think it's good, though.
I think that this is something the community has been asking
for. You know, I don't think anyone
is upset about this change. I think this was considered to
be like just wildly hailed as good news.
So, and I know that there's beensome concerns about Sony's
involvement, but if this is the direction they're taking, then
great. I mean, good first step.

(24:31):
I think that there are some, I have some qualms about not
having ACEO for Bungie and what that means in terms of just
being completely enveloped under, under Sony's umbrella,
like how much creative control they're going to have.
Because that that was an ongoingquestion.
I think that's something that wediscussed a previous episode was
how much creative control are they going to have?
Is Sony going to micromanage them?
Like, of course, we want them tokind of be their own entity, you

(24:55):
know, under the umbrella. But we want them to because they
put out amazing content when they're able to be creative.
And so we don't want them to be subsumed completely.
But yeah, I mean, I don't think anyone is upset about this
change. I think this is like a super
good change and I think I, I feel like for me, for Justin, I
am like absolutely down to give him a chance.
Like I, I don't know a lot aboutthe scenario.

(25:18):
I mean, in terms of in terms of over delivering, I think that
they're they're like the, you know, I mean, I don't know the
entirety of what happened with the layoffs, but I feel like
there was this period of COVID expansion that happened and a
lot of tech studios had to lay off.
And in terms of like over delivery, I think that setting
reasonable, like deliverables ispart of what you should do as a

(25:39):
studio head, right? But I also think it's a terrible
thing to say like as APR move, like let's not give people
everything that they want, because that's some people here.
They're like don't over deliver.They're like, wait, but we want
the content. Why?
Why should you not try to deliver your utmost at every
single expansion, not thinking about like, resources invested
and like, you know, like employees and time and all

(26:03):
these. There's like lots of
quantifiable resources that haveto be considered for sure.
I don't know. I feel like he deserves a
chance. Like people are saying.
The comment may have been taken out of context.
I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
But I yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree with Bergen singing in
the chat. Like I need to see, I like, I
need to see what he can do, right?
Like I feel like I don't don't just say something, do something

(26:26):
like show me that you're going to make the game amazing because
we all want that. Yeah.
So what I'm seeing here, so we'll, we'll read Justin
Truman's portion of that here ina little bit, but I'm also
seeing what like Pete Parsons came up in the studio as like an
executive producer and studio manager.
Like when he was from Microsoft in 2002 as an executive producer

(26:50):
and studio manager. That's when he came to Bungie.
And then he left shortly after like Halo 3 and like ended up
coming back during that whole transitional period that like in
2016 he was announced as the CEO.
So like, he came from like more of a managerial background.
Background, yeah. Whereas Justin Truman and we'll

(27:13):
read his bona fides here. It seems like he came from more
of He was a developer. He touched major parts of this
game and may have made some pause, but Justin Truman his his
portion of this says in the 15 years I've been a developer at

(27:34):
Bungie, I've worn a lot of different hats.
As an engineer, I wrote some code I'm really proud of for our
original weapons abilities in networking in Destiny one.
As a designer, I helped craft many of our Destiny 2 systems,
including some of the end game systems I got terribly wrong at
Destiny 2 launch. As a producer, I helped our team
build and roll out Destiny's first seasons.

(27:55):
More recently, I've helped with our overall talent strategy as
Chief Development Officer, and Ihave been helping the Marathon
team as we build out our next World.
Across all of these different roles, Bungie's purpose we stay
has stayed clear. We create worlds that inspire
friendship when we're at our best.
We create those worlds alongsideyou, our player community, and

(28:16):
build something that matters. Something that's worth our time,
your passion, worth your time, your passion, and your
investment in us. Something that I've learned
hopefully over delivers. And italics, right?
Yeah. So he's he's.
Poking fun. He's he's like he, he knows.
He, he knows, he knows, he knows.
I've also been a part of these efforts at Bungie when we've

(28:36):
made, when we've maybe not been at our best, when we've stumbled
and realized through listening to our community that we had
missed the mark. I know I've personally learned a
lot over the years, as have all of us, from those conversations.
I'm committed to supporting and working alongside every member
of the team here as we continue pouring our hearts and souls
into these worlds. Worlds that we love and that we

(28:57):
hope have been worth your time and your passion.
Because ultimately, these worldsonly exist and thrive with you
in them. We are hard at work right now
doing that both in Marathon and Destiny.
We're currently heads down, but we'll have more to show you in
both of these worlds later this year.
In closing, I know I can I can speak for all of Bungee when I
say I appreciate your passion, your perspective, and the time

(29:20):
you spend with us. Pradasia and Astra Justin
Truman, studio head bungee. Wow.
Yeah. Yeah.
So like, yeah. Yeah.
He's self aware at least. At least he knows some people
are saying, yeah, yeah, he does.He does.
I mean, I mean, it is, it is interesting cuz like when I'm
reading that I'm reading, it sounds like a cover letter to

(29:41):
me. You know, as somebody who's
applied for like managerial typeroles, like when you like you,
you don't have to know every subsection that you manage.
Like obviously you, you trust that your employees, but you
know, it reads like a cover letter.
Like I'm qualified for this job because I've done all these
different roles of bunchy. I've done engineering, I've done

(30:02):
development, I've done producing.
I know how I knew everything in and out.
Like it sounds like a cover letter.
I've done some good things, I'vedone some bad things.
The, the, the like culpability is interesting.
Like I, I, I do appreciate that.I feel like there's the
self-awareness is good. I feel like he's, he's like

(30:22):
basically saying we know we don't get it perfect every time.
I think, I think the ability to say, Hey, we did something wrong
is really important in leadership, especially in a live
service game, because I don't think you are going to get
everything right every single time.
And that's absolutely OK as longas you're willing to admit that
and, and, and improve things, right.
I think that's, I don't think anyone in the community expects

(30:43):
Bungie to get everything right every single time.
I think that having leadership that's like, OK, well, my bad.
That like we could do that better.
Is that that's that's more important to us, That's more
important to us, which kind of leads into sort of the other
conversation we're going to havetoday about like the grind and
and the twid, right? It's like we want, we want
people, we want them to say, hey, this didn't work out the
way we wanted, let's fix it for you, right?

(31:04):
Like that, that feedback, that culpability, that like, let's,
let's, let's, let's get it right, let's get it better.
You know, so I mean, I feel likeall of that is very, very
promising. But you know, I think that that
there, I mean, I feel like with any kind of change, there's
trepidation. I think that people are nervous.
I think that overall this is a positive change and I'm hoping

(31:25):
that it'll be a really positive change because it's not just
change is not necessarily bad, it also creates opportunities.
So hopefully this will create opportunities for the game to
improve, you know? I also feel like this was this
is one of those things where like Justin Truman coming in, he
might he might be like a good transitional moment for for the
studio as it becomes like like somebody fresh faced to to the

(31:50):
leadership role that when, when PlayStation gets folded in, when
or when PlayStation folds Bungieinto PlayStation studios.
Yeah, I think that that's probably what's happening if
like Pete Parsons, not not saying that like Justin Truman's
like a pushover or anything likethat.
I'm just saying that like they're probably looking for

(32:11):
somebody else to deal with that's not Pete Parsons and that
that isn't Pete Parsons in that room.
And we don't know, like we don'tknow what kind of golden
parachute Pete got like, becauselike one of the articles that I
read this week talked about we can kind of estimate what like
maybe it might be because the, the lawsuit with Chris, Chris

(32:34):
Barrett in Bungie, where like Chris Barrett is, is suing for
$80 million worth of damages. He claims the studio owes him
$80 million. So 1 can estimate, yeah.
Yeah, so. Yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, just
check, bring a trailer down. That's how you'll find out how
much he got, you know? Yeah, exactly.

(32:56):
But yeah, I think I have to say allegedly during the Chris
Barrett situation, even though Iwouldn't talk to that guy in
real life. So I wouldn't recommend other
people do it. But yeah, so it's like that's
that's pretty astounding. I will say when I like, despite

(33:19):
the over delivers thing, whenever I see Justin Truman in
like a Vidoc or anything like that, he's he is truly he seems
truly passionate about the game in a way that that I think is
admirable. I like I want to see the the Rev
was saying like actions over words.
Now I don't care for the fluff. Like they feel it's insulting.

(33:39):
I, I too am like, hey, like deeds not not deeds, not words
right now, right? Show us.
And like, I'd I'd rather see that Ryan Gilliam and who, who
previously had worked at Kotaku,who was writing guides for
Destiny for years and years and years, had this to say on

(33:59):
Twitter. And I thought that it was
probably important to to read here too.
Justin gets Destiny. I have a lot of faith that this
will lead to a brighter bungee. Also, I understand what he meant
in the GDC talk. However, this is extremely based
and very funny. Well done.
And he's highlights the like over delivers thing in the

(34:19):
thing. So yeah, it it just seems like
it's a wait and see kind of thing.
Yeah, for sure for. Sure, want to see how it how it
does. I know that the ship is not
immediately going to right itself because like, you're
still going to have some remnants of.
Past. Managerial decisions.
Yeah, there's a, there's a lag too.

(34:40):
We all know that the content that they're working on right
now, we're not going to see fromfor like 6 months to like a
year, right? So we all like the, the content
that we're getting like right now ongoing for a while is still
going to be Pete Parsons like managed content, right?
But I mean, we will see a transition.
I think this is a net good outcome.

(35:01):
This is a not good outcome because I think Pete Parsons,
like the community was really, really over that.
And I'm really glad that they'vetransitioned him out and I hope
it's, I hope it's good, but I think it's not +100.
Percent, I think like I would like to see what this transition

(35:23):
means for for the direction of destiny like so we're let's
let's get into the twit, I guesslet's.
Get into the twit. Kind of.
I'm going to invite Rev in here.Turn, turn the volume down,
guys. Rev don't yell.
Rev don't yell. Let me, let me, let me manage

(35:43):
your your audio here real quick.How are you today, bud?
Hi. Hi.
Dev Hello, friend. Hello buddy, how are you today?
I've got words to say, yeah. Yes.
I know there's words. Yeah, there are words.

(36:04):
Yeah, man. So we just talked about the the
Pete Parsons, Justin Truman thing.
You clearly have thoughts, so. My my apathy has outgrown
everything else now to the pointof I no longer give a flying
fuck what comes out of any official bungee com.

(36:26):
I want to see their actions, their words into actions I want
them to bring back. Like the bungee magic as it were
but mentioned in your chat. By comparison, another dev who
had a bad season in Path of Exile. 2 guiding gear games just

(36:51):
drop the the fattest dub of all time because they did something
Bungie used to do. They listen to the community.
It's a ground breaking feature now.
Not everything is not just patches of dubby.
There are some elves are nervous, there's some teeming
problems, head scratching moments, but but 90% of it, God

(37:13):
damn, they listen to us. It's insane.
And it's it's astounding how excited I am at minor tweaks
here and there that make massivequality of life improvements to
the things I want to do inside game that makes me want to play
it. It's insane.

(37:36):
I wish Bungie had actually listened to us.
Instead of lowering the floor tothe lowest floor, they increased
it. Granted, like we don't always
need to be, but buffered everything to keep up with
everything. Like that's just stupid.
We all know, like that's how youthat's how you ruin the game.

(37:57):
But it would, it would be nice, like it's fun for them to
acknowledge that fire team OPS, for example, has fallen behind
and it's not where they want it,right?
Cool. We understand that the that the
average player who is doing the power grind is going to do solo
OPS. The reason being, if you get it

(38:17):
down to 2 1/2 minutes to 3 minutes, it doesn't matter how
many rewards you put in a fire team, bill, co-ops, or even
Crucible. Just just to clarify, just to
clarify the thought here, just like in case people aren't on
Twitter and aren't like around. So one of the big things that
that came out this week from theTwid is that they're going to be

(38:40):
adjusting the reward experiencesfrom different playlet from
different portions of the portal.
There's several different chartsonline of in in this Twid of
like, Hey, here's the activitiesthat like are like have the most
completions, most completions, and also the activity duration,

(39:03):
highlighting that solo OPS is byfar like the fastest and
pinnacle OPS by far the the slowest when trying to get those
activities done And for the grind.
And that they were in in talkingabout this, they talked about
minimizing some of the rewards that you would get from solo OPS

(39:27):
and raising the floor on on fireteam OPS and other and
pinnacle OPS and everything so that those felt more rewarding
versus just going to to the soloplaylist.
Did I? Did I miss anything in that?
No, that's the gist of it. Yeah, that's the gist of it.
So for pinnacle OPS Encore Star crossed and Whisper have had

(39:51):
their end of end of activity andgrams reduced by one on encore
OnStar crossed and all their midactivity rewards dropped by 1
and in whispers case entirely removed.
Now there's two ways they could have gone about it.
There's the catastrophic what the fuck are you doing moment,
which is what they've they've gone, or the other one, which is

(40:15):
addressing an actual problem with these mid activity chess.
That is that are pretty. I am right now yeah, yeah, I'm
450. I get tier twos out of that.
The fuck am I getting tier twos?It doesn't make sense.
Tier 4 bare minimum because that's the stat range of 70 to
75. I would obviously like a tier 5

(40:35):
but we can't always have what wewant right?
It should scale with the person's power level.
I don't understand why that's hard.
And then there as well as them trying to push fire team UPS to
be like hey you guys should go for your power over here.

(40:55):
They're adding two battlegrounds, 3 strikes, and
three expeditions from plunder. TLDR we have done these before.
Yes, yeah, all now all the activities in the portal are the
old activities maintained. Old content, yeah.
Yeah, now I know when we went into this expansion, but the

(41:16):
content will begin. We'll be in in the size of Rides
of Iron. I'm like, OK, cool, that's not a
problem. We had a new strike.
We had a bunch of other things that were new.
We didn't get anything new really.
We got we got a new activity which is on cooldown for 2 1/2
hours. Oh for fuck.
Why? And it's only available for 30

(41:38):
minutes, mate. What do you mean?
Why don't just have it on the entire time?
Yeah, it's very confusing decision there.
The sieve doesn't make sense, it's actually a fun thing.
I enjoy the sieve but because it's on the cooldown I forget
and now I'm not getting a third party bot just to sit at a

(42:01):
discord to poke me to remind me I'm antisocial.
But fuck off with that Pierce. I think the big thing here and
some and something that like I wish and I've seen I've seen
this thought reflected across the community, especially on the
day that it was posted, is like,why not like like keep solo OPS

(42:23):
rewarding, but bring pinnacle and fire team OPS up so that.
Here's the thing. Yeah.
Here's the thing, Solo OPS is still going to be rewarding.
If I can still clue it in 2 1/2 minutes, it doesn't matter.
As I said, how many N grams you stuff into fire Team OPS, right?
I'm always going to outpace it. Yes, it might be 1 power level
lower than trying to go for pinnacle or fire team, but that

(42:48):
doesn't matter when you hit 500.I need I need prime end grams.
Prime end grams are always a power increase, so it doesn't
matter. I'm going to use pinnacle
because on course the fastest with with some teammates to get
up to 500. Once about 500, it's back in the
solo up minds because it is the most effective method available.

(43:14):
So yeah, like they've these changes have only have only
alienated the community and theyhaven't done anything to it.
They haven't made it more rewarding.
They made it less. They made it backwards in an
astronomical way, like they should have just left solo UPS
the way it is because you can't change it and without enforcing

(43:37):
certain time restrictive objectives which would just
alienate everybody even more. Keep it just to one drop, maybe
limit the bonus or walls down tomaybe 2 if you really want to
put a penalty on it. That way you incentivize fire
team and pinnacle. All right, but it's still going
to be faster. For a muppet like me who wants
to hit 550 as soon as possible, that's what I'm going to do.

(44:00):
Fighting. Fighting needs needs to be
brought up. I'm in agreement with that.
I don't want to go and farm Sabre if I can farm Encore,
which gives me 3 drops slightly above the time limit.
I'm OK doing 12 to 15 minute runs of Encore versus Devil's

(44:21):
Layer at maybe 8 minutes. Yeah, it.
Doesn't matter to me. Go on.
Who's Eddie in chat says I thinkthe with the pace that some
people can get through solo OPS,they'd have to basically give
basically one reward for every minute spent in the thing for it
to rival solo OPS for them. And I'm like, that is something
that like I felt yeah, when. So I think at one point I ended

(44:44):
up doing, I did Onslaught one night on stream and I was like,
oh, that was the, the, that was a long time.
And we only got how many from that?
How many drops? Yeah, yeah, you got, you got 1 N
gram for 10 minutes of your timebecause it's 10 to 30 minute
activity. Like and so, so this kind of

(45:07):
thing it, it speaks to me as like maybe there was like some
like almost definitely. Well, I don't, I don't know for
sure. We'll, we'll say like, maybe
there was some like like commandments sent down from from
Pete Parsons Mountain that was like, hey, we need people to
spend a lot of time in this game.

(45:29):
Like while we, while we aren't attracting new people, we would
like to maintain our player baseand maintain their time.
And so the portal was was designed and the the new
grinding system because like people, people were calling for
like a, a steeper grind and everything I, I know, like I.

(45:51):
I remember I didn't. I didn't ask for Sisyphus.
Are you mad? Right.
No, no, no, no, no. I'm not, no.
I mean, I'm. Not calling you out here, I'm
just saying some people talked about like a seeper grind and,
and, and so they were trying to deliver on that.
Like the, the thing about like agame like this is like there's
just such a broad audience for it that you're going to have so

(46:14):
many people yelling if they don't get it just right.
And like, that's where we are right now.
It's just like a lot of people yelling about all sorts of
things for, for their, for theirvoice to be heard.
I'm, I'm hoping, my hope would be that like with Justin Truman,

(46:35):
maybe here in the next few months, like after the plans
that they already have set in motion for Ash and iron come
through and we see some more things for Renegades pop up.
They're like, hey, you know what?
Like we swung like the the classic bungee thing of you, we
swung this a little too hard andwe'll start seeing some more

(46:55):
things pop up hopefully to to maintain the the player base
that they have now. But I don't see how any of this
is really attracting new playersor really like engaging the
players that they have. Right.
So I, I have a couple points. I mean, I think the first one I
probably articulated before on the podcast and I kind of agree

(47:17):
with you, Dan. It does feel like they're like,
OK, well, how do we capture and maintain the player base that we
have in the time because they want like our spin on Destiny,
right? That's that's the deliverable,
right? It really does feel like
somebody sat in a room and said,let's push leveling through this
portal, right? Like all these activities that
we've already done a million times before, we're pushing
leveling through this new UI because we want people to use

(47:40):
it. We want this to be the place
people go for grinding. And personally, and I, I will
say this over and over until I'mblue, I feel like that's
misplaced. I feel like leveling has
traditionally been connected to end game content and Destiny.
And for me, end game content should be the most rewarding
place for leveling. Not that there shouldn't be
opportunities to level for people who are casual or solo,

(48:03):
but I feel like the fact that like solo grinding is the most
effective way to to, to level currently is a problem,
Especially with just, you know, Justin's coming out and saying,
oh, we hope to continue to create these worlds where you
can experience friendship. I'm like, this is literally the
opposite of that. This is literally the opposite
of that. You are locked, sweaty with your

(48:23):
Cheeto breath alone in a room grinding in the mines for like
15 hours like at a time. It's literally the opposite of a
friendship game. And then the second point I have
is that literally we were discussing last week in the
Twid. They said that they were aware
that the community was not a fanof the grind, the current power

(48:44):
grind, and that they were working on ideas on how to
change it and prove it. So to say that to articulate
that in last week's Twid and then to come out with this
week's Twid, which really it's, it's very much actions not
aligning with words. And I think that's really the
root of this. This really need your community

(49:05):
response, which I feel like is absolutely justified.
I feel like people's anger over this is absolutely justified
because it's not like they're not aware of the problem.
They're like not they're like they're not improving it.
They're not improving it. And I think and maybe maybe
there's other things they're going to roll out.
Maybe it's just, you know, between one week and the next.
It's like not enough time for them to roll out the changes.

(49:26):
But like, tell us, tell us like just, you know, say, OK, well,
our plans in the future include XYZQ to make this grind more,
more palatable to people. But it really felt like they
said one thing last week, they did something completely
opposite this week. The community feels like they're
not being heard and people are angry.
And I think it's absolutely justified and the Cheeto breath
was not an attack. I was going to say man, like I.

(49:49):
I showed up. I showed up to that meet up at
GCX one time with just straight Cheeto dust, fingers shaking
people's hands. You had to call me out upset.
I thought we were friends. I.
Want to do that with Cheeto dust?
It's a requirement. I mean, I mean, I feel like
we're at 80% cheated us at this point.

(50:11):
So as gamers, long time gamers. Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, man, it's, it's just like it's kind of confusing where we
are right now. I just, I just want to play with
friends again. Like we took away.
We took away so much that was used as like a social point.

(50:35):
Like you, you go from farm GMs at this point of the season.
But yeah, we had one weapon a week and we we don't need the
armour. Well, I need the armour now.
And the armour is actually pretty decent.
You don't get your 4 set piece of text set you're throwing.
But what came in place in was conquest.

(50:58):
Conquest. So incredibly rewarding and they
wasn't done. Luckily they are being a
repeatable thing. That's one of the small WS in
this type by the way. But this is it's not all doom
and gloom. Contest will be repeatable.
Like hell if they just give a fat a fat stack of crafting
mats. I'll do them.
I don't give a shit. They're fun and yeah, like it

(51:21):
might take us like 30 minutes. I don't give a shit.
It's the fact I get to play withfriends in.
Yes. In March I.
Did my levelling at PvP this week Rev because I didn't want
to do it by myself. I was like, well, I can suffer
in trials and get solstice dropsand level or I can do this solo
activity, which is onerous and not my thing, you know?

(51:42):
So I was like, I'm going to and I, you know how much I don't
like PvP, right? Like I was literally the fact
that that's more palatable because I can play with my
friends over doing a solo thing should tell you how bad things
are right? Because Rev knows how much I
hate PvP. Yeah, shout out to the trials,
Armado, you really should get. Some, yeah, No, no, no.

(52:03):
I got some good drops. I got some good drops for sure.
So you are right in terms of levelling has been done in the
end game, Oh my God knows how long, but 10 years I think.
And then all of a sudden they'vedone a rug pull and when it's
now Portal and it just happens to be Cheeto Dust McGee in the

(52:25):
corner solo solo. I'm never living that comment
down there my. Fuck you, fuck you.
You ever walked in my footsteps and just crying?
No shit. So like, I wish I I don't mind

(52:47):
the portal. I don't.
Either and I I feel like you could do both though.
Like why, why, why not both? Why not both?
Like push like there should be an opportunity for people like
my husband who like the solo grind for him is so, so much his
speed because he can come home, he can hang out, he can do a
couple hours before he goes to bed.
He's like way higher level than I am now like that.

(53:09):
There should be a place for that, but I should not be doing
like raids every single day and be a lower level than him.
I mean, I'll, I'll keep saying it.
Speaking of raid like you shouldbe, you should be getting power
increases at any step of the damn power.

(53:30):
Power grind from the raid. It is meant to be the pinnacle
of the game. Why is the K1 fucking loss
sector? Yes.
Better, yeah. 100%, that is literally I completely I that
this is my main point of contention, this that that is

(53:51):
what makes me mad. That's what gets me going, yeah.
So I I would love it if the babywas like, yeah, like any drop,
any drop up up to the cap of 500is a power increase.
After that first week clears is still it is prime.
It is a power increase, maybe not as much as a as a prime

(54:14):
Prime is a + 3 to the to the item it goes to maybe under plus
2 + 1. I don't care plus literally
anything at this point and I'd be happy with it.
Now on the back of awards for fed raid.
Why am I still only getting one drop per encounter?

(54:36):
They go. They're going to in the 12 as
well. So you earn extra awards with
all encounters of a desert perpetual defeating all three
bosses before Mr. Harvey to earnan extra piece of give.
So that's plus one. Yeah, listen to this.

(54:57):
Just just real quick this is this is coming in update 9 point
1.0 dropping with ash and iron continue.
In addition to this, we're introducing 2 weekly challenges.
The first challenge will give you an extra piece of loot from
your first clip, second piece, so now it's three pieces of both
kill. Completing this challenge will
unlock an additional one that provides bonus loot from just

(55:19):
the epic raid. So if you do the epic raid and
hit these two, two on the nose, that's four at the end.
That sounds really rewarding. You have to clear the entire 8,
so currently your total drops are now 7.
Three from the bosses, maybe 8 if it's an encounter.
I'm pretty sure it's an extra encounter, and then four from

(55:39):
the boss. That sounds marvellous, doesn't
it? What if you just want to farm
one of the encounters? Why can't it be 2?
They have an armor pool and a weapon pool.
Each encounter is split into three weapons, 3 armor.
Why can 1 of each not drop? I don't get it.

(56:01):
This is meant to be. This is meant to be a lunar
shooter for the last 10 years and this is the most loot field
the game has been and it is still not OK.
It is about to go up against oneof the behemoths, the big
franchise which wrote the lootershooter book Borderlands 4.
Yes, 100%, yeah. It is going to lose

(56:22):
catastrophically. You won't make the amount of
tweets you are going to see about.
This is what a Luna shoulder is from people who have never
played Borderlands and I highly recommend you.
This is a good time to go and join the franchise by the way.
It's going to be insane. You are going to be spoilt for
choice. You won't know what to do with
half a shit on the floor, you'llforget it even exists as you try

(56:45):
and go back to a vendor to go and sell it.
You'll get sidetracked by something else and fuck off over
there. Well, OK, there's a couple,
there's a couple things Rev right, because they disconnected
the loot from the power to some extent, right?
Like the I mean, certainly you get you get loot that drops at
higher and higher levels, right,But like, like, you know it just

(57:05):
because you get good loot, it's not necessarily a powerful drop
of a you get you're not increasing your leveling right
by the loot. They also the tier system, I
also would, would, would posit, basically creates a new issue
that's exactly the same as the issue we had coming into this
expansion that there's a lot of loot in the looter shooter, but

(57:27):
it's mostly bad, right? Because until you get your level
up and you're getting the Tier 4tier 5 drops, you basically are
getting a lot of junk, right? And that was the problem before
we went in to this expansion fordifferent reasons.
It was a problem because everything that we had was
already so good and so power crept.

(57:48):
Anything new that we got was irrelevant at that point.
So now we have like the same problem, but for a different
reason, because the weapon tiered system and the armor
tiered system, you're still getting a lot of loot and it's
still mostly shit. It's still mostly shit, right?
Like so it I think and in my, inmy, from my perspective, that's
why it feels bad. That's why it feels bad.
It's like I'm getting so many drops.

(58:10):
It's so like I can't I can't keep my vault clean.
I filled it twice this this lastweek, like I had to delete.
I can't keep my vault clean. But all of the stuff I have is
junk and like not just not just the new stuff I'm getting, but
like my vault is full of of likenon tiered weapons that I'm
like, why am I holding on to these?

(58:31):
Should I hold on to these? Is this also just so so I'm
like, this is a very much feels like I am just swimming in a sea
of crap. I'm swimming in a sea of crap
and I hate it. It doesn't feel rewarding.
It doesn't feel rewarding unlessI I back to the grind, unless I
go into the mines and I, I basically do something that I

(58:51):
find incredibly tedious in orderto level up and then maybe I'm
going to get rewarding loot. So I I feel like that is the
crux of the problem in terms of this grind being antithetical to
like an authentic looter shooteris because everything is crap.
Everything is crap. There's something something they

(59:11):
should have done like and I'll I'll stand behind this like at
launch is to give everything like even regardless of if you
can earn it through like tiered activity, give everything a tier
because yes, it is made it like so that half.
The stuff in your vault, right, Dan?
Is what you're saying, Yeah. Yeah, half the stuff in my vault

(59:33):
is just like, OK, like I'm, I'm keeping this because I've kept
it for how many years now, Like,and there's like a bunch of
adepts in there that like I remember going in and earning
with, like with, with friends and that I really, really enjoy
using. But like, it doesn't do anything
right now. Like it?
It doesn't. Matter.
I mean, I keep things because they're pretty.

(59:54):
Right. OK, fair enough.
But. And like, and I hesitate to use
those things because I'm like, well, they're not tied into the
new system. Like I wonder how many people
are like me? Who are just like, you know,
they don't tie into the new system they don't like, They may
shoot the same, they may have the same result as when I had it
before, but there's something inmy brain that can't get over the

(01:00:17):
hurdle of they're just not as good.
They're not tiered OK, and also counter argument and I I know
this for a fact it's some to some extent it doesn't matter.
OK, because I can OK, so mint retrograde right is fantastic.
It's so fun, it's so good. It's one of the coolest things

(01:00:40):
that they released in terms of weapon archetypes.
However, if you get you can get an optimal roll on it right,
like I have not gotten enough toroll on it.
I have a very basic role and it cooks.
It doesn't matter it's still excellent.
So it to some extent, like the tier system doesn't matter.
To some extent the grind doesn'tmatter because I can go in.

(01:01:04):
I can go in with a basic, not meta, mint retrograde and the
base archetype, the gun is so good, it's going to be good no
matter what. I don't have to have rewind
rounds or whatever the the meta role is on it for it to be
really good, which I feel like the community does kind of get
fall into that trap sometimes ifI have to have the best possible

(01:01:24):
role in order for this to weaponto be worth it.
But it's not true. It's not true.
You could go in with off meta stuff, do end came content.
It doesn't matter to some extent.
So part of it I get this is my own issue, right.
This is a mental hurdle for me saying like I don't have a tier
5 drop, so it's bad. I can go into the raid, I can

(01:01:45):
get I can get like the God roll of a gun and it could be on a
tier one drop. Is it less likely because
there's less like perk options? Maybe, but I could still have
like a tier one drop that's justas good as a tier 5 because it
has that that like perfect combo.
So to some extent, like I am, I'm getting in my own way
because in my head, if it's not a high tier, that's a problem,

(01:02:09):
right? Or if it's not a meta role,
that's a problem that's not usable.
But to to some extent it doesn'tmatter.
It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter and it
doesn't matter. The leveling doesn't matter, at
least at this point. Like not leveling, doing the
tiddly way of just like playing the content that I want in the
game. I can do well, basically
everything I want. Will there come a point where I

(01:02:31):
might need to level in order to do, you know something?
Maybe. But because because my teammates
have leveled. Thank you very much for doing
that. They pull me up where I can do 5
feet raids with my friends and I'm having fun and doing what I
want to. I think I think where like you
will, you will need to level up for conquests if you're planning
on doing those at all. But if you're not planning on

(01:02:52):
doing those at all, then you don't really need to either.
Like I probably I will. I will.
I do want to do that. Is that the is that the new
Conqueror Guild? Because I probably have to.
Yeah. Yeah, I'll have to.
I'll have to level for that because I do want to do that.
There's no way I'm missing. Out on guilding again?
Yeah, what? What do I have to get to for
that of? Probably 515 because we've got 4

(01:03:14):
GM, one gem, 2 ones coming in and two ultimate ones coming in.
Yeah, and so help, so help us. God I can't wait to do them with
you to do because there's two modifiers coming with ultimate
Fuck my ass pressure cooker. That's a weird modifier.
Finish under the time limit, allget kicked toward it.

(01:03:36):
Second one and my favorite extinction.
All players are limited to a single life.
There are no revives. I love that, I love that.
Isn't that? Isn't that like the the raid the
Destiny one raid modifier? Yeah, like there wasn't there
like a was a like a hard mode raid that you.
It was. It was just built into hard mode
like you built. Into hard mode, Yeah, I love

(01:03:57):
that. That's actually.
It was shit, that was it. Yeah, that's so fun.
I don't mind. I think those are really good.
And I and I and I will, I will level because that is something
that I actually want to do in the game.
I'll go for that. Yeah, something that I've seen a
little bit of from from some players on on Twitter is the
contest mode on for the desert perpetual epic version.

(01:04:21):
I believe Ham from from the world's first team was like, I
believe he, them and a few otherplayers are I believe that they
are. They're boycotting.
Correct. This one what's what?
What is some of the like the mindset behind that?

(01:04:44):
I know knot swap is a big. Yes, we should talk about Knot.
Swap thorn in the thorn in the side there.
OK, so part of the reason we're doing it is actually not related
to anything in the tab. So that context one of them
stated words to the effect of itcheap.
It cheapens my original achievement, which I kind of

(01:05:08):
agree. Like it's we all know how to do
the four encounters. We now have to learn how to do
them slightly differently. And then also the fifth one or
sixth one, like look at look at that too.
So there's that for all is one of them Ham.

(01:05:32):
It wasn't Ham who said that, butafter seeing that knot swap and
also featured and seasonal mods are going to be in play, they
thought for the four of them decided to boycott it.
It's only for them. Like they said, they don't
expect it to take off at all, but they're letting them know

(01:05:54):
like yeah, they were world firstfor this and they don't agree
with it. No, they aren't the only ones.
There's a bunch of other people who don't agree with it.
Records. There was something that we were
talking about last week when we were like, yeah, like, are they
going to do a world's first for this?
And then like, and I was worriedthat like, people were going to

(01:06:14):
get a little more fatigued by like having constant raid races.
I think this this issue has comeup before though, like with like
the re release raids having raidraces, right, like like the re
release of Vog having a raid race.
And then it's like, well, you know, is it is it kind of like

(01:06:36):
the there's an asterisk because another team got the world's
first when it originally came out and that you're releasing a
raid that, you know, I mean, obviously they, they there were
modifications to to the re release rates, But but you know,
there still is the the idea thatpeople are mostly mostly
generally knowledgeable of the mechanics and how the raid

(01:06:59):
works. So it's it's a re release.
It's not like an original raid race, right.
And that, and it kind of goes back to the comments that you
made in a previous episode, Dan,about how these raid races were
to some extent like a PR thing for Bungie.
So, but so I think this is just this is just kind of the same
issue or quibble that the community has is like, how

(01:07:21):
legitimate is this? Like is should we have races or
like a raid that people are already familiar with?
Like is it about discovering themechanics and on the on the
first time it's released? Or is there a place for for for
this to happen? And that's why I feel like
people are more about like the dungeon races because it feels
more genuine. It's new content, but but I

(01:07:43):
think this is kind of like a similar kind of issue that
people are taking with it. Yeah.
Yeah, and then not swap. I feel like not swap is
interesting because I I was honestly was really unfun when
we were doing right of the 9. I, I, I think part of this is, I
know, I'm not sure if this is something that was already
planned by Bungie to do not swapfor the epic raid, but I think

(01:08:06):
that there was a lot of negativefeedback around desert
perpetual, like having DPS checks that were so difficult
that swapping was felt mandatory, that there were like
multiple swaps that the teams that cleared were, were really,
really doing a lot of loadout swaps.
So the community really kind of reacted like negatively to that.
I think that in my personal opinion, I feel like they, they

(01:08:28):
may have overcorrected because they, they said they did testing
in the TWID that is clearable without swapping.
So that's one thing to me that would have been enough if they
they were like, OK, you can clear it without swapping.
We tested it, we did QA on it. Great.
Asterisks on that they tested itwithout the ban list.
Correct, right, which is anotherpoint of contention about desert

(01:08:49):
perpetual right is that they they tested that with things
that were like banned before they came in right.
So that they should they. Should test it.
Grand Overture. Absolutely.
They need to test it with the sandbox that people can bring
in, right? I feel like we all agree on
that, that that's something thatthey should be doing.
But I think at this point, non swap is problematic.

(01:09:09):
It's not like the best teams outthere aren't going to still
swap. It just makes it more difficult
for them because you're going tohave to wait until you finish
your super. And because if you swap before,
when you have your super, it's going to take your super away.
So now you're going to have to swap after you do your super or
after you're out of heavy ammo. So it just, it just it makes it

(01:09:31):
less fun and more difficult. It's not like people aren't
going to get around it and and swap loadouts anyway.
It just means that it's going tobe more annoying.
Like it just makes the game lessfun I think, or the contest less
fun. So not yet.
Actually, he's not going to do anything for this.

(01:09:52):
So the way it works is if you ifyou swap exotic armor off for
legendary pieces and whatnot, and also if you swap different
ammo types, so a shotgun to a fusion rifle for example, or a
primary to a special you, that'swhen it will trigger.
If you stay within those admittedly quite broad lines,

(01:10:16):
it's going to be the same experience.
This limits fringe cases like what you said earlier about
people swapping like mid DPS from Lord of wolves.
From legend of accuracy to Lord of Wolves, there is no legendary
shotgun and heavy slot, ergo it will trigger.
Now I do believe there should bea degree of hot swapping.

(01:10:43):
Sorry loadout swapping in a contest you should have a pre
DPS and then you should have ADPS and then maybe you should
swap to outbreak and or if the equivalent weapon for the for
when you're out of ammo. But overall, not swap is not
going to really affect this people.

(01:11:06):
Are still going to swap, you know, like the it's not going to
prevent teams from finding ways around it and finding like ways
to swap. And also the other thing about
desert perpetual is first of all, it's it's literally like
destiny, the boss raid, right? Like every single encounter is a
boss. That's literally what it is,
right? So it's about damage and

(01:11:27):
damaging bosses, but also you can do every single encounter
with primary ammo, right, right.So I feel like that's another
another point of contention, right?
It's like, well, maybe not pointof contention.
It's just another another thing to consider is like, who who
cares? Are people going to be clearing
DP on like with primary MO? Maybe, I don't know, I don't

(01:11:49):
know, maybe it's going to be toohard to do that.
But like. That's that's a problem with the
stats system. That's not because Outbreak is
suddenly phenomenal. Well, right, because it's used
for super Gen. correct? So they're right.
It's it's used for super Gen. aswell as damage, a little bit of
damage. If you have a high super weapons
that then yeah, you're going to profit.
But you're. Going to profit, right, But

(01:12:10):
that's why the the the PK build,right?
We were talking about that this week.
There's a the peacekeeper build with swapping SMG is really,
really good, not because you're doing a lot of damage with SM
GS, but because if you're popping 7 Thunder crashes on the
final boss because you can generate them with peacekeeper
SMG swaps, then that's that's where you're getting the damage.

(01:12:31):
And I but that, that also, I feel like that also kind of
speaks to what you're talking about Rev like it's, it's, it's
the, it's the system that's broken, right?
It's like the the weapons not being as as as impactful as like
ability super damage, right? It's we're just in the ability
matters. The fastest way to gain it back

(01:12:52):
is is going to be what you want Now going back to contest the
other thing which I said was featured gear and seasonal mod
will be enabled for this. Now this I disagree because.

(01:13:14):
Like the featured Exotics, Rev. This is, you know, it's featured
gear in Season and watch becauseyou get bonus, you get bonuses
to damage and damage resistance.When you adhere to the featured
gear, you get 15% Dr. 10% weapondamage increase.
This goes on top of everything else, therefore all duplicative.

(01:13:37):
This wasn't enabled during the original contest, Why is it
enabled now? This makes no sense.
Like the only the only way I've seen them wanting to do this is
because they want people to liketo keep on using new gear.

(01:13:57):
Fun fact, I'm always going to use a new gear.
It is factually better than the majority than everything we've
had. Especially on the armour side.
Weapons side is situational. Like what?
Like you mentioned earlier that you're drowning in the sea of
crap because you don't know whatI did say that.
Right, that's a direct quote. My advice for that is armour you

(01:14:22):
Shard Tier 2 or below because those are the stats you weren't
playing with any. If you start using Tier 1 and
Tier 2 because you you feel likeyou have to because it's part of
a new system, you're fucking throwing.
Get up, get up to 300, start farming tier threes, then you're
on equal power with what you currently have, and then you

(01:14:46):
start getting access to the set bonuses and so on and so forth.
So otherwise get rid of it Tier 2 or less.
Weapon wise, it depends. Weapons are very situational
point in case for crossbow is currently the best damage
option. It's.
So good, I love mine so much. Do you have one here, Dan?

(01:15:08):
Yeah, I, I have two currently you have two sitting in my
vault, one with the explosive, one with the explosive bolt that
people are seeking. I don't have a Vorpal 1 yet but
I have I do have temporal temporal blast on it and it's
still like crazy. Yeah, so that's because of the

(01:15:33):
mod that will then change crossbows.
Oh shit. Right, right.
Exactly. It's it's.
Just because of this this this the glitch.
Right. No it's not glitch, it's it's
how the modern interacts. It just so happens if Vorpal is
also busted on it, that's. Just right.
Purple's, well, vorpal's broken,right?

(01:15:53):
Isn't that it? The additional damage is is like
overtuned. It's incorrect, right?
It should be 10%. Yeah, it's 35.
Yeah, well, there you go. So it's just coincidental that
it it so happens to be on. Interact with the temporal.
Blast which Temporal Blast also interacts with just giving you a

(01:16:15):
fat sack of damage so that will get fixed.
I if I don't disable to it's importable blast.
They will be disabling that crossbow, you can count on it.
Oh, for sure. I mean, I I don't expect anyone
sticking that one into the epic raid at all.
I don't think that's going to happen as.

(01:16:36):
I said I disagree with using like making the the new system
mandatory because it means you can't use exotic class items to
be a full effectiveness period. All right, currently the
featured list is a bit shit, notgoing to lie on hunter.

(01:17:06):
Best option musket back Chris. So stylish.
The scales, soda, acne and luckypants. 4 things to pick from
which would be effective in a day one environment.
Mask and backwards only gets a shout out because now work for
combination blowing. You can now change some

(01:17:28):
ridiculous shit with it. Lucky pants for the photo hand
cannons, which I'll be surprisedif they don't get tuned
beforehand. I don't think they'll be
disabled, I think they'll be tuned instead of acne. 45% of
the yard whenever I grapple POC champ and static scale 70%
damage, super damage increase. You get a good role for that.

(01:17:51):
And you saw some some illegal armour of weapon and super.
You can get 200, you can get up to 200 super then whatever you
need on weapon and outbreak for the rest of it.
So that's just on Hunter. I can't be asked to just swap
characters and see what Titan has.
And actually if you kind of click on it sick, see, you don't

(01:18:16):
have cures to the falling star, but you do a pile of gold
gauntlets. That's it.
That's it for your super. So if you want to be effective
and you hear what you want that they are you can't wear cures,
but we all know curious about soyou're probably the way anyway

(01:18:37):
yeah yeah so I I I disagree withlike making this mandatory and
like the feature the features and gothic list is ass like yeah
playing a simple we've. We've talked about that in the
past. How like?
We did. For a game that like that wants
you to focus on like playing your way and to like to build

(01:18:59):
out, to make builds to like add that limitation is just really
not a great like not a great decision.
Yeah, like what do you want to do to mask a backrest at the
start season? I can't remember.
That's all right. Totally.
Do you know? I don't.

(01:19:22):
Know why would a review your fucking Titans?
And you know Masca Backwards works with stasis and arc and
arc weaponry of all kinds. Happy days.
That's really good. It also works with Lord of
Wolves. Find me Lord of Wolves on the
exotic on the exotic featured list.
Fun fact, you can't Masca Backwards is there though.
Make it makes sense. Why can't I use the exotic

(01:19:46):
pairing that I want? You've specifically told us this
is something that we could use, and we aren't allowed to use it
in avant-garde activities. Mm hmm, sure.
It's it's just another another. I mean, I feel like this always,
this always kind of chafes the community Rev because we, you
know, bunchies said before like,oh, we want you to.

(01:20:09):
Enjoy the game. We want you to play the way you
want to play. And then they go and do stuff
like this, which is limiting players in the options they
have, whether it's mods or or, you know, this like rotator
exotics are stronger or whateverit is because the community is
kind of like, let me just play the way I want to play.
Why are you, you know, trying toprevent me from enjoying the

(01:20:32):
game the way I enjoy the game? And like, I think that that's,
that's sort of like the whole, you know, stop telling me what
to do, Dad. I just want to have fun.
Leave me alone. Yeah, I will.
I will play the game if is fun and I feel valued.
I no longer feel valued as a player.
Right, right. And that's, that's, that's the

(01:20:53):
chafing, right? Because you're kind of like,
yeah. I'm only logging on because my
team has made a commitment for the next raid.
Not the epic one, the one in theyear's time.
So I need to be farming now. I need the trials armour, I need
the tech tech armour, I need theBashidou armour and God knows
what else. Armour sets come our way, as

(01:21:14):
well as whatever other weapons we're getting.
I'm going to need them because you never know what is going to
be useful on the day. So I am because of our
commitment, but that's what's keeping me logged in.
So if if that wasn't the case, Iwouldn't be here Like I, I, as I

(01:21:35):
mentioned in chat, I'm so apathetic about this entire this
entire game now. I could not give a shit if I
told the. Apparently is really good right
now. Like I could like if I turn the
servers off tomorrow, I wouldn'tbat an island.
Couldn't give a shit. Yeah, I, I, I as a player, I

(01:21:58):
don't feel listened to. I don't feel valued in any way
anymore. You know, I want I, I think that
a lot of people agree, I think that the whole grind system
really speaks to players time being valued, right?
You know, so it's kind of like they like they, they really did
add a very, very like long grind.
I'm actually curious to see kindof like the population stats,

(01:22:20):
like the distribution of how many people have levelled and,
and what that looks like and like time invested and like,
because I know not a lot of people like looking at the stats
do any game content. But how many people are are
levelled to 400 or to 450 at this point?
Like what does that? What does that look like?
Is Bungie looking at those numbers?
Like are they? Are they making tweaks based on?

(01:22:42):
That they, they, they will be like, you're going to get some
late people now that Fallout recently hit it.
This is one of the latest like CCI know to hit 450 and it is a
slog. It is not fun.
I've stuck like so many fucking TV shows on the side as I do.

(01:23:04):
It dude, that's and that's fine.I mean, I I OK, like, I know.
No, no, it's, it's having a slog.
OK, maybe maybe not a slog, but having a grind is not
necessarily a negative thing in a video game, right?
Like you love grindy video gameslike Diablo?
Yeah, I have. I haven't.
I haven't. You know.

(01:23:25):
But I haven't. I said it's a slog like this
grind is. Shit.
That's what. I'm saying it's the negative
connotation of a slog, that the grind is not fun or rewarding.
Right? So like.
The grind is rewarding. It's it's it's the.
The method of how it's done is wrong.

(01:23:45):
Well, right, it's not, it's whatI'm saying it's not an enjoyable
scenario for you. So like, if it was if you could
be doing content that you enjoy doing while you're levelling,
then that would be a different situation, right?
Oh, my brain fizzled out. It's.
OK, it's 1:00. In the morning, I do apologise

(01:24:08):
like so. It's, it's, it's in terms of the
grind, like what? What got me there was the law of
what Tier 5 gear can do for you as a player.
I cannot go back now. I have to have tier 5
everything. It's that simple.
So it's more so the armor size and weapons like weapons, yeah

(01:24:31):
you can get away with like Tier 4.
The only thing you don't you miss out on is the allergen
trade not being enhanced. Whoopty fucking do right?
So apart from that, like you need tier 3 and higher in my
opinion on every weapon, especially if it's explosive
because it can yield up to a 5 to 10% damage increase depending

(01:24:52):
on the barrel and the mag. Why the fuck is that a thing
Bungie? So I I don't mind I don't mind
Well sorry. I like the reward of having to
of being able to find tier 5 armour in the Kepler cave and in

(01:25:15):
PvP because that as long as I'm as long as you get positive KD
and PVPI get tier fives. So that that is the reward and
it feels good. But the journey to get to it was
asinine right at best. So would you say, would you say
if you compressed it, if we like, then it would be a
different scenario, but then you're taking the grind out like

(01:25:38):
would you take the grind out or would you make it?
Would you do it different? It's it's the RNG of prime N
grams because that is the only way to climb from the last.
For the last 50 levels you have to rely on primes.
There's only one guaranteed spot, that is the Viola.
He offers three, he offers a weapon at random, and then he

(01:26:01):
offers your choice of armour. That's good, I like that.
Why can't I just pick the weaponI need?
I needed a energy weapon from toget to 450.
It took me two days. I had eight dupes before I
finally got 1. And it was I was as far as as

(01:26:21):
farming as farming solar OPS until 1 dropped.
And that's, that's part of the problem with the, the grind
system in general is, is has always been RNG on what item you
get that drops higher, you know,and how it like they, there's no
duplicate protection for that. So like if you have, if you can
get the same pinnacle or like I'm sure it's the same thing,

(01:26:44):
right? So I don't, I don't necessarily
mind dupes. It's when you get too many of
them. But yeah, yeah.
If if, if, if my primes are going to be tier fives, I'm
probably going to want to keep them, especially if there are
weapons you'll once I get the perk rolls I need, it's done
like every everyone that comes afterwards I shot.

(01:27:05):
There's nothing new. Like I just finished up the
trial spreads your hand cannon. I finally got vulpable cascade,
so now I no longer need that, but I still need trials arm.
I still need Grenadier pieces. I still need paragon pieces, so
I I am going to keep holding them.
But yeah, to go back to like thenotion of like the grind isn't

(01:27:30):
isn't enjoyable. It's it's the method of getting
there, but isn't enjoyable. If I could do this farm and
conquest like conquests, I will do that all day.
Even if it's still the same system of RNG, at least I get to
view friends this. Game built up the.
Back of friendships. It's it's not just the activity,
it's the fact that you can't play with friends.

(01:27:50):
And then also somebody in chat earlier said it's it's like for
me, I'm under leveled now. And so it the, the, the optimal
grind with friends is not going to work for me because I can't
play with my friends who are high leveled now.
Like I cannot grind with them because it's what we do is not
rewarding to them. Like they I've had two people
coming to me and say, hey, like tiddly I, I don't care if I

(01:28:12):
don't get rewarded. I would be happy to level with
you anyway. They shouldn't have to do that,
you know, There should be ways, meaningful ways that I can level
with my friends and we can all get rewarded for our time.
Right. Yeah, there should be, I think.
I think we should probably transition over to questions.

(01:28:35):
Now. For this later part of the of
the episode, Bergenstar is asking what are what are the
panel's thoughts on illegal armor still being a thing.
I believe they said in another comment that they had they
wished that it would just be sunset like it when Renegades

(01:28:55):
comes around. They they wanted all armor pre
edge of fate to be sunset. What is what is?
What is illegal armor? Like I said earlier, it's having
like weapon and super combos. There is no armistat pairing.
Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah.
Where you can have that and everyone would be having grenade

(01:29:17):
and class. That is also an illegal pairing.
Gotcha. OK.
And and that's having that's having it as like a primary and
secondary stat. Are you talking like plus 25 on
both? Right, right, right.
And, and the reason that's OK. So I do remember people were
grinding for like illegal armor.Yeah, before, before like the,

(01:29:38):
the expansion, because they knewthat those combos were not going
to be available and they would be like optimal.
I, I, I feel like I was talking to somebody this past week
saying that even if they have the illegal armor, the stat
benefit isn't so much as to makeit like a problem.
But I don't have a lot of thoughts on this, if you guys
have thoughts on it. It's 5% damage increase.

(01:30:00):
Right, 5%. That's.
Not nothing. No, that's make or break.
You think so? Absolutely.
Like so, so it's the difference between having so in the past
like to make a comparison over like it doesn't matter if you
have it would be having impact casing on a, on a rocket
launcher that is a 7% damage increase, yeah, to the direct

(01:30:24):
impact of the launcher, not the explosive part.
So in the grand scheme of things, it's like .5% increase.
This is a flat 5% damage increase that that that will
make or break a final stand. Sure it's OK.
So it's going to matter especially during and like
really really high end game content.
Not for like just general stuff it's not going to matter, but
for like min maxing it will matter.

(01:30:46):
So I guess my question is like, obviously a solution would be to
take it out of the game, right? But why not introduce it as an
option for people to grind now? Is that like is that a possible
alternative scenario? Right?
Like what if they have another armor set that will offer
similar like it's only. Illegal.
Illegal is a weird a weird way to say like it's just not in the

(01:31:09):
game right now. Like what if they just add it to
the game? Is that a problem?
It would need to be a stat grouping, not an armor set.
There, that is. OK, Stat grouping.
OK. But yes, that that would be one
way to immediately alleviate it.And given the fact that you can
get tier 5, that's that's 75 stat that is 30 and 125 and the

(01:31:29):
other that is on par if not better than pre educate illegal
ones. If you don't like the term
illegal, call it contraband. It is like people just want to
have fun with it with the term. What do you want to call it
armour general like this general?
I mean, it's it's. I just call it old armour, yeah.
Old armour, I feel like old armour is fine.

(01:31:51):
It's just like it's just not, I don't know, like I, I see where
that could be a problem. I mean, I, but I, I also see
where like we were talking aboutfor like the solstice set, how
that's a limited, like that's a limited time option for people
to grind for that. And like, what if that is the
difference maker for like the upper grade, which I don't know

(01:32:12):
that that's the case at all, Butit's like it's like these
limited time, you know, combinations or weapons or
whatever it is in the game that could give a team an advantage,
which you said Rev yourself thatthis is one reason why you're
still in the game, because, you know, you need to be in there to
get these limited time, like minmaxi type gear, armor and

(01:32:35):
weapons to to be the most optimal, you know, But I guess,
I guess the question is like, what do you do with it?
Like it, you know, is, is, is like Bergen is saying, maybe
there's not enough time to to make that significant of a
change. So disable that combo.
But like, how are you supposed to do that for people with their
gear? Limited time like the Solstice 1

(01:32:56):
was two weeks like FOMO armor. Then you're looking at set
bonuses, not stat distribution. Right, Set bonuses, right.
I'm not, I'm not saying like that, that's the same thing, but
I'm just saying like as an example of like a limited time
thing that people feel like theyneed to grind just in case it
might be useful in the future. So it doesn't necessarily.
If you if you care then cool, you should go and you should go

(01:33:20):
and do that like people cared enough to farm the fucking
captain at the end of grasp of average 400 times.
I think it was 600 in Bonds case.
Yeah, for this armor. Now, at the end of the day,
Solve the Grappo even said that he farmed it about 400 to 500
times and he's against it, but he knows he needs it.

(01:33:42):
I farmed illegal armour because I knew I needed it.
I don't like it. I think everybody should be on
an equal playing field. Sure.
It would be nice to have by super weapon pairing, but we
know why they haven't done it because it's going to be fucking
busted and the only one people will probably run.

(01:34:03):
I don't know why they're doing the grenade in class unless
they're scared of warlocks suddenly doing anything, but I'm
not sure if they've seen a handheld supernova up close at
100 full stacks of Verity. So I think they should just add
the set bonus. And it's not the set bonus, the

(01:34:23):
stat pairing and just. Let everybody get it that.
That would that would sunset by proxy the old armor set.
Yeah, exactly. Because then you could, because
the old armor sets aren't aren'taren't tiered.
Correct. The illegal armor.
Illegal armor isn't tiered. Tier doesn't matter in this
sense, it's the stat potential. Very right and they are

(01:34:45):
technically on par with with tier. 3S right?
All right, so when when you got a really good, when you when you
ain't got a really good set, theonly time you're going to go
above it is tier 4-5 and that and especially with tier 5, when
you get stat tuning where you can -1 to +5 another, that's
where it would matter most, especially if you get one which

(01:35:08):
is tuning on your secondary set.Let's say for instance it's
weapon in this case being the 25one super being the 30I now have
an armour piece with 30 super 30weapon.
What if I got that all of them? Like I see what bunch you don't
want to do it like it's forget it's for about balance reasons.
Well fun fact the balance has gone out the window.
Have you seen a grapple hunter like mate?

(01:35:33):
Well, I don't, I, I, I, I would also say the game, the game
Destiny has never been about balance.
It's been about power fantasy. I think the question is when you
have something that's a competition, then peep the
conversation of parody comes into play because it is a
competition, right? And because, I mean, honestly,
like that 5% bonus if I'm doing almost anything in the game

(01:35:54):
isn't going to matter. But if it's a competition and
you're min maxing for an epic grade, like, you know, world's
first completion, that will matter.
And that's something that like has to be considered, right?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Anyway, it's a good, it's a goodquestion.

(01:36:15):
I I feel like the personally, I feel like the optimal solution
would be to make available that stat distribution on the current
armor sets. I think that that would also be
really fun for people to see like who, who couldn't get The
Who couldn't do the farm before to have access to that.
Or do it for a limited time likea limited time activity or

(01:36:36):
event. Like a like a two week solstice
style thing. Yeah.
That way, that way it's available for a little while,
people could farm for those things.
But like you're, you're essentially taking it out every

(01:36:56):
once in a while so that they don't have like an ever never
ending flood of what they can get from there.
Ronnie Maple asks if it takes more than a year to make
changes. Make the changes community once.
Are you willing to keep playing the game?

(01:37:17):
Since there's still stuff in thein the pipeline from Pete, Can I
can I field this one? First, go for it, Dan.
I think, yeah, I'd like, I mean,like I'm still going to be
playing Destiny. Destiny is where like Dusty's
why I'm here. This is This is why, like I'm
yapping with you folks to see like is is how I got my

(01:37:39):
community and how like I met so many, like wonderful people in
the community and continue to. So I'll, I'll keep playing it.
Yeah, fuck you too. Love you, love you but.
Like, no, it's, it's one of those things where like it's

(01:38:00):
it's like it's, it's a game thatI'm going to keep keep playing
now. Like how hard hardcore I play
probably will vary from time to time just based on like my time
and like how I value it at that time.
Right now, I'm itching to play other games that are that are
not destiny at the moment. I know that I'm not like at 400.

(01:38:24):
Please don't throw rocks at me, but the but I right now it's
like, well, you know, like I'm, I've got that experience.
I, I know what my thoughts are on it and I know what I like and
what I don't like about the system.
And I would much rather at this point right now, going into

(01:38:45):
everything that I have going over the next month, next couple
months. I would rather spend that time
relaxing than trying to beat my brains out to get a number in in
the game, if that makes sense. So yeah, I'll, I'll still play
it. I still like playing with people
on stream. I still like playing with people
in my community. I just would.

(01:39:09):
It probably just varies based onmy interests at that time for
what they're doing with the loose system.
Right. I, I think, Dan, I think it says
a lot like we were talking aboutin the intro that you played
other games this week because you were like, I need a break.
I need a break from Destiny. I think that that really is kind

(01:39:31):
of the flavor that I'm feeling from a lot of people right now
is that, you know, they're not having fun playing, you know,
does does it mean that they're not going to pick up the game
and play it? No, but it means that that, you
know, the interest in playing other stuff is out there because
you're like, well, I want to have fun when I'm in my free

(01:39:52):
time when I'm playing video games.
I think that's absolutely valid.And I absolutely agree with you.
I feel like this destiny is, is and will continue to be my
favorite video game of all time.And I feel like the friendships
that I've made here are unbelievable.
I mean, I met my husband playingthe game.
Like I I can never express like the gratitude I have towards

(01:40:15):
this game and everything it's given me.
I got partnered on it like everything.
Like I've, I've gotten so much from this game.
Will I play other games if I'm not having a fun time in
Destiny? Absolutely.
If like the Pete Parsons content, if I'm going to wait
for six months for the new new C-Suite kind of mentality to

(01:40:35):
seep down into the content that I'm playing great, I will I will
I have a high boredom tolerance.I will keep on flying probably
no matter what. I will probably Guild conquer
again. I will probably Guild dragon in
again. I will do all of these things.
And then if I'm not having fun, I'll do something else, you
know, because that's that's the way I look at it is like you

(01:40:55):
can't both can be true. I can, I can, you know, continue
to play Destiny and I can stop playing it when it's not fun and
then come back to it when it is so.
Another thing is that like this year surprisingly stacked like I
was not anticipating, yes, the amount of high quality games
that were going to be coming outthis year.

(01:41:18):
And then like even we over the next few months, we have like we
have Borderlands 4, we have Ghosts of Yote like we have, we
have all of these like. So many good releases we have
Silk. Songs coming out in a week and I
know that some people are very, very stoked on that.
I haven't played the whole night, so I, I don't know that

(01:41:38):
excitement, but maybe I'll get around to it.
But I think it's, I think it's one of those things where like,
yeah, there's, there's there's too many video games out there.
I've I've said this, I've said this in private before.
Well, and maybe I'll keep it in private.
I think, I think there are people who are fans of video

(01:42:00):
games and people who are fans ofDestiny, like is something that
I've said in the past. And I feel like that's like the
best way that I can describe that is just that there, there's
some people who are who like Destiny is their entire life and

(01:42:21):
they're like, I don't know, I just really love video games and
like, it's taken me a while to like really break out on my
shell when creating stuff outside of Destiny to like try
to play other stuff. But yeah, man, I just, I just
love video games and like, Destiny is a big portion of that

(01:42:42):
love, but it's not the only source of that love, if that
makes sense. Yes, absolutely makes sense yeah
yeah, and I and I love I love that we start this podcast every
week talking about what did you do in gaming this week?
And it's it's I mean we're all here it's called Destiny digest.
We're all here because we love Destiny, but we're also here

(01:43:03):
because we love video games and like I feel like every time I I
do that section, it's like, oh, I played 5 this week.
I did and I still managed to play put like 20 hours into to
to Destiny also. So but I I love of that.
I think that that's a great reinforcement of, you know, we

(01:43:24):
just we just love we just love video games.
So that's good reinforcement. Rev What do you have?
What do you have to add to this?What was the question again?
It was if it takes more than a year for the changes that the
community want. Are you willing to keep playing
the game since there's still stuff in the pipe from from
Pete? Connor Woody answered that

(01:43:47):
earlier and only because of the need to make sure I'm prepared
for anything. So yeah, like because of because
of me and my team are planning for the raid next year.
Yeah, I'm, I'm going to keep playing irrespective of of
what's in the pipeline. I'm I'm probably going to keep.

(01:44:11):
So I'm going to kick my toys outof the ground for a night for
Paddy every once in a while because there's this
questionable change happened or whatever the case may be.
But at the end of the day, I need that armour set, I need
that tier 5 weapon. I'm going to go and get it now.
If I wasn't, no, I would not be playing this game.

(01:44:37):
I, the will the want to play is,is long gone at this point, the
bungee famous gunplay and power fantasy will no longer keep me
in the game because what's the point?
And going on this nice little power fantasy that we've enjoyed

(01:44:57):
for God knows how long when they're not listening.
I, I, I, I as a consumer myself,I respond well when a company
actively listens to their playerbase and goes, OK, well, we're
going to try this neat little change.

(01:45:18):
Let's see what you think. And if we don't like it, we have
a button that just goes delete or change, whatever it may be
like Overwatch is doing this in their stadium.
We're doing a draft feature which is designed to stop mirror

(01:45:38):
matches. So the same character as the
same character, but also to enhance counter play before the
games even begin because you can't talk characters when you
play stadium Overwatch. It's one of the rules on it.
So what if the community doesn'tlike it?
Well it turns out they literallyhave a button.

(01:46:00):
They can just turn it off because they've already thought
of it, but they want to try it. So if Bungie started doing that
kind of proactiveness, I probably have a want to play the
game because it means they genuinely care, but they want to
try. Currently with the way they
implement things, it takes them so long to backpedal that we

(01:46:25):
just get pissed off. Sure.
Sure. The current the current pipeline
on how to rectify mistakes is shit.
Then we because of the stink we all kicked up over this TWAB,
they've they've immediately reverted one of the changes,
which was you had to go to the hall to decrypt your prime

(01:46:47):
engrams. Brother in Christ, the reason
why people don't know it goes there is because in trials at
least you are not told that yourextra rewards go in your into
your loot stream. Why not just add it to the loot
stream? Because it's a pin?
If it's a pinnacle, why not add a little bit of fanfare to it?
Tier 5's already have it, shiny's already have it.

(01:47:08):
Why can't pinnacle? Why can't prime engrams make it
make sense? The system is there for other
high quality pieces of loot. Why isn't it on the best?
It doesn't make sense. A lot of things since HFA
started have just made me scratch my head.

(01:47:29):
So why I, I, I did a post don't know, like about a month ago,
like the question of of all I keep coming back to is why?
And you can add a sentence on tothe end of it.
Why are we doing these changes? You want to try something new?
OK, that's great. I'm all I'm all for you trying
something new. Do you have a contingency if the

(01:47:50):
community hits back? The answer has been a resounding
no, and even they've doubled down on some of these changes
and made it categorically worse.So their their framework and
infrastructure on how to rapidlyreact to changes needs a look at

(01:48:12):
in my opinion. Now at the end of the day, I'm
not a game dev. I've got no idea how any of this
works all right. And frankly I don't give a shit
because I'm also a consumer. And if you pay for a product
and, and it's not and it's not performance at the standard you

(01:48:32):
want and they have the means to fix it.
Granted, not up to the standard,not not to the ideas that I
want, but bare minimum to the point where there is enjoyment.
Again, why? Why are we faffing around?
Right. So, so I mean that was going to
be a follow up question for me to you, Rev was is there a way
that they could win you back by being responsive to the

(01:48:55):
community? And I feel like the answer for
you is yes, but I think that your point.
Respect my time, respect the players.
Yeah, if. They if they respected your time
and valid your time and they started making decisions like
like to that extent. I think the other point you
break up is really good too, because it is a live service
game. And so you should expect a

(01:49:16):
degree of being nimble with a live service game.
And like you said, you're a consumer.
You're not a dev. Like you understand that there's
things that limitations on what they can or can't do.
But as a consumer, you don't really give a shit because you
at the end of the day, you're what you want to play the game
and you want your time and respected.
You want changes that they make to be able to be rolled back if
they don't go well. And you want that, you want it

(01:49:36):
to be nimble. I think that, and I'm not sure
if this is a game engine problem, but I think you're
absolutely right. I don't think they're nimble
right now enough, enough to be responsive enough to the
community when they implement something that goes wrong.
So I I think that's an absolutely valid point.
To to their credit, they do havea system where they can make
quick changes and they're small changes like they can pull

(01:50:03):
something out of rotation, fix it and stuff it back in all
right. But this is a core underlying
feature. OK.
And as you said, it's a live service game.
Would you look at that path of Excel 2 is also a live service
game. It suffers from the same thing
of it needs to respond rapidly. Yes, nimble.
And they do it's. Incredible.

(01:50:26):
It's possible to do it, is what you're saying.
Like even for like a AAA game, it's possible for them to be
reactive and responsive and I think.
Path has been active for a lot longer.
It's been active for almost whatI think 12 years now. 12 years,
so longer than destiny. So Mr. Path of Exile 1, you can
still go and play that and you can, you can play for everything

(01:50:47):
that's ever been released on it,by the way, there's no FOMO.
So granted, there are different genres of games.
It's an RPG versus AMMOFPSRPG. God fucking acronyms.
So there is a category, there isa category categorical
difference between them. But at the end of the day, the
pipework, the pipework needs to be like fundamentally the same.

(01:51:12):
They need to react differently. Rapidly fucking up words.
It's 2:00 in the morning. Yeah, it's OK.
Yeah, I. Have a couple more questions
here SO. Like OK.
Sounds good. It would be like to give it like
an analogy. It'd be like you taking the car
in an engineer like describing all the bits and bobs.

(01:51:32):
Are we with YouTube mechanics? You just want the car to work.
Yes, I am. You want the you're mechanic.
I get, I get it, I absolutely get it.
And I agree, you know, like we don't need to know how the I
mean, I I'm glad that they sharein the twins how the how they
make the pudding. But at the end of the day, I
want the pudding to taste good, you know?
Yeah. So I don't I, I don't want you

(01:51:53):
to put. Pickles in this pudding.
Why is it mayonnaise and jello? Why is this a Minnesota pudding?
What is? This Why is it hot?
Hot. No, not hot pudding.
Why is this pudding hot? You.
Gross. Anyway, yeah, agreed.

(01:52:13):
Rev Agreed. Fat facts or creation asks given
Bungie has on multiple occasionsso that they want the to close
the skill gap ceiling across theplayer base.
Isn't introducing the tier system in its own requirement
kind of undermining that? No, if you are, if you give

(01:52:34):
access to tier four and five pieces of gear at regular
intervals to the general populace, I don't think you know
Tier 4. The the high tier gear should
not be handed out Willy nilly. That will undermine the system.
I believe a Luda shooter should have a system in place so that

(01:52:54):
your gear matters. This is the equivalent of like,
yeah, granted Destiny does have the colour based blue system of
white, green, blue, purple, yellow, but we only really give
a shit about purple and yellow. Let's reveal all right, We no
longer use Blues. We no longer use greens in like

(01:53:19):
in other games, they have made it so that some greens and some
Blues matter because they're unique.
So there is a way to make all gear matter if you so choose.
But I don't think, I don't thinkeverybody's feeling an equal
playing field. It'd be fucking boring.

(01:53:40):
But if you, if you want to go into contest engine and and
compete with the best of the best, pull your socks up and get
grinding. This is what it looks like.
It's shit. You're going to hate yourself
and you're going to rewatch fucking the rookie again, God.

(01:54:01):
Damn it. But you're going to get it done
because you need you need accessto tier fives.
Yes. No heard.
Which is why I did it. I need tier fives as soon as
possible. The sooner I start farming them,
the sooner I can slow down. Yeah, I don't, I don't know,

(01:54:30):
like where I where I'm at in my grind right now is just like I I
get oh, piece of candy and then I slap it, I slap it in and then
I move on and I feel like the skill gap this might like I'm
still playing essentially the same game like the I'm you.

(01:54:51):
Are. I'm missing out on maybe like a
few percentages here and there, but I've never been somebody
that has played for for min maxing in that way.
So it's still possible to play this game without min maxing
everything out to like yes, the the maximum, like the the thing
that the thing that we've said on here time and time again

(01:55:12):
before of like you don't have tohave everything in order to like
in in order to play this game inorder to beat a raid.
Enjoy the game, yeah? Like is still rings true.
The tiddly method. Pretty handily, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
The Tiddly she's you know what? She's selling a book on it
starting next week. The Tiddly Method.

(01:55:33):
It's a it's an e-book only rightnow, but it will be printed.
She's going to print it on her own dime.
Look for it in her store. The final question that we have
for tonight, Subsistence Sasquatch asks.

(01:55:55):
This is a Mr. Kalish question, but he's not here and just
wanted to ask this question. What's more anti variety, the
avant-garde or using your year plus old gear still?
Avant-garde without a shadow of a doubt.
The because like it was always achoice to use you.

(01:56:16):
Like it's always a choice to useyour old gear.
Like it's really, really good. Like obviously on Igneous
Hammer, which I, I really like it has hill clip frenzy and
moving target is good in all playlists.
It's good in all playlists. I used it a lot back when we had
flip striker as a mod where rapid hits would then ignite the
target whilst you're radiant. So I, I really enjoyed it and

(01:56:41):
I've kept it around. If I couldn't, if I wasn't
allowed to use it as a contest, right, I'd be a little bit
upset, not going to lie, becauseit's a powerful piece of gear.
avant-garde is there just to push the narrative of please use
our fancy new gear when they don't need to advertise it any
more than having to set bonuses.And like the new, the new frame

(01:57:05):
archetypes are doing wonders on the new weapons.
Spread shorthand cannon, rocket pulse, and eventually we're
going to have a rapid fire slug.First of its kind.
That sounds fun. Yeah, it's diabolical.
It has chocolate. Oh, chocolate has chocolate.
Yeah. What the fuck?
Yeah, I. Can't wait for that.

(01:57:25):
That sounds quite. That sounds great.
What? What?
What? What so?
Yeah, so. Weapon like you don't need
avant-garde for it like the weapons are already doing the
the thing they want them to do which is the new and spicy
thing. Armour wise is a bit is a much

(01:57:48):
harder solve and I understand why they put avant-garde in
there to force that change. But at the same time this
fucking featured exotic list is shit.
Remove that and avant-garde isn't a problem, but keep it in
and it is. So they could keep it.
So it it coming to that conclusion, they could keep

(01:58:09):
avant-garde if they just go fuckit.
The features exotic list is goneand you can use the word
whatever exotics you want. All right, So yeah, fuck
avant-garde at the moment. I like I, I, I guess I kind of
get what he, what he's trying tosay here is like, well, if you

(01:58:30):
have old armor in there, you're still you're still using it like
I like that's still anti variety.
I, I will say like something that this that the new system
has made me do and is probably what they're they were intending
is for me to try out more of thematerial, more of the weapons to
like slot into my kit. So that like it's and it's

(01:58:54):
forcing me to use things that I normally wouldn't use in my kit
to, to like get more of a flavorof it.
Now I don't like the avant-gardemodifier.
It's for me, It's whatever. I've pretty much replaced all of
my old armor with the new armor anyway.

(01:59:16):
I'm using I'm using the new weapons primarily because like a
lot of them are good. I wish I would.
I wish there was a glaive that Icould use right now that that
fit into that whole playlist andthat whole thing.
Shocking, shocking indeed, but it but like I, I also reflect

(01:59:37):
like your your comments on like the exotic playlist like they or
the exotic weapons and armor notbeing a part of the system like
that. Those things should always be a
part of it to help with that fantasy.
Like like not, not even that fantasy, just like with that
promise of build. Because there's, yeah, I, I get

(02:00:01):
why they're doing it because they're probably seeing like
high numbers on some things and lower numbers on others.
They want you to mess with a variety of different builds and
they want to build out a meta like specifically for that
season and they want that seasonto have an identity.
But like I, my guardian doesn't have an identity right now.
So like, it doesn't make any sense to me.

(02:00:24):
If that's fair. The thing is though, the season
already has its identity by way of the the artefact poets.
They kind of dictate what elements you're going to use
currently as solar strand and stasis.
Well fun fact, Vex Mitha class to crucifer nation, Duality and
sunshine are not featured on theexotic.

(02:00:46):
They are all solar weapons. Oh terrible.
And Lord of Wolves, can't forgetthose, they would be phenomenal
in this season. But you can't use them in
avant-garde stuff so I can't. I can't run around with
Peacekeepers and Terror better in AGM environment because it
slap on the recess a no no. Like why?

(02:01:09):
Why can't I use the quirky shit?Red Death isn't on the list.
Fucking Red Death. Icebreaker's not there either,
and they're all good weapons, solike, hell, even ergo Sam.
I think that's hilarious, actually.

(02:01:30):
Like isn't on that list. Like, why can't I use the fun
stuff? There's so many cool things in
this game and you're just being told no, it's not the bungee
way. Oh fuck the bungee way.
I want to use Izzies. Yeah, I, I don't know.

(02:01:52):
It's, it's just, it's a confusing change.
It's it's a confusing change whythey would, why they would do it
that way. And it's and it's one confusing
change among, like a list of confusing changes.
And if they even left Kvostov off the list, I'm mad.
I need to stop looking. Yeah, I, I think it's, I think
it's less about like the old, the old armor and stuff like

(02:02:16):
fine, like I'm, I'm probably going to end up deleting my, all
my old gear because like I didn't do any of that like
illegal, illegal or, or contraband armor farming.
I just, I just got rid of like I, I got stuff, I the stuff that
I had I liked and I played with it.

(02:02:38):
Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't know what they do in the
long run, but it's it's just confusing.
Yep, Yep. All right, yeah, the I think
that's that's all the questions fit to print.

(02:02:59):
We're going to take this in for a landing.
Abontus came in. Good old, good old Abontus.
Can we get a shout out for Abontus, please?
Catching the end of the show, but man, things are in an odd
place right now. Yeah, weird.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good way todescribe it.
A little weird. Yeah, so, yeah, that's we're

(02:03:22):
going to take this in for a landing.
Thanks everybody for coming and listening to the show, for
coming and asking questions. Thank you all so much for every
everything that you do every week.
And we appreciate you you all. We're going to go ahead and tell
people where they can find us onthe Internet.
Rev, I know it was a little impromptu for you to come and
join us. Thank you so much for for
popping in. Where can people find you on the

(02:03:42):
Internet bud? You spot on AI, you spawn me in.
Where can people find you? You can find me.
You can find me on Twitter if you really want.

(02:04:02):
What a warning though, I don't give a fuck.
Yeah, Jenna Dewanet says that you can find him on The Only
Fans too. Jenna Bells.
On binary bells, what? Yeah, you can find you can find
me on Twitter. I do sometime stream.
I am on Blue Sky but I forgot about it like with most people.

(02:04:25):
I just I use buffer. I use buffer for everything.
So like I'm. Like I see.
My feet occasionally, but. I might do that, but the reason
why I'm still on Twitter is because everybody else is still
here. But that's all the news I want.
Everybody's still in hell. I'm.
Just going to stay here, I'm free.

(02:04:50):
All right, tiddly, where can people find you on the Internet
front? Yes you can find me on my Twitch
channel twitch.tv forward slash tiddly Monday through Friday
9:00 central for auditory caffeine and also on the blue
sky and I am tiddly on blue sky.I'm free from Twitter
congratulations. You cannot find me there.
Thank you, thank you. She's.

(02:05:10):
OK. Nobody.
I'm free. I'm free.
I deleted my account. It's gone.
My name's Danfinity, my name is Danfinity, and you can find me
on just about every platform. Danfinity GG.
I will be this week. I will be a little less on the
street. Maybe I might, I'll be at PAX

(02:05:31):
West this week in Seattle. So if you're in Seattle and
you're like and you want to hangout, you'll maybe want to grab a
coffee or something or maybe youlike are going to be at PAX W
you want to hang out, just just come and find me.
I'll I'll be around. We have.
I'll be at booth 1530. With kittens.
Yeah, with kittens, with a, witha kitten cuddle puddle.

(02:05:53):
OK, come say hi to me. Get get a pen.
Hopefully if you're, if you're going to a panel, I'll probably
see you at the no clip panel. Maybe yes, no, maybe.
But yeah, just come and find me.Preferably not in my home or in
the place that I'm staying, but yeah, just anywhere else.

(02:06:18):
Come and find me find. Me but no lights.
Talking, He hasn't left out the car.
Oh, no, you can hang out in my car.
That's cool. What about in the pub?
Find me in the pub. Yeah, that.
That's it for. That's it for me.
Find me on all those places. Oh, my God.

(02:06:41):
How do I close this? Thank you all for listening.
Can I close it? Yeah, go ahead.
All right, thank you all for listening, you wonderful card.
Fuck off. And we hope you find what you're
grinding for. You missed that part.
We start the 4:50. It's worth it, I promise.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Destiny Digest #113: Bungie's New Management & Community Power Struggles

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

The Breakfast Club

All Episodes

Destiny Digest #113: Bungie's New Management & Community Power Struggles

Dateline NBC