Curtain Call: The Murders of Sam Herr and Julie Kibuishi

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Kiki and I'm Rachel, and this is Details are
Sketchy A true crime podcast,and this is episode 21.
21.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yeah, we're over the hump.
We're old enough to drink.
We are old enough to drink.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
We should have gotten cocktails we should have.
That's okay.
We're celebrating with going tosee Twisters Twisters or
Twister?
Is it Twister or Twisters,twisters?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Twisters.
Sure, twister is the first one.
No, I have no idea.
I believe, so I don't remember.
I mean, you're the expert onthis film.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm not even an expert.
I didn't even know they wereremaking it until the other day
Earlier today, you told meTwisters.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
So Earlier the other day, earlier today, you told me
Twisters.
So that's what I'm going with.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Well, I said Twisters .
I don't know if it actually is.
I guess it doesn't matter.
We're going to see that moviewith Glenn Powell and Daisy
Edgar Jones Is that her name?
That movie, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
The sequel to the Bill Paxton Helen Hunt movie
back in the 90s, which was oneof my favorites and gave me one
of my greatest nightmares, whichis not tornadoes.
Speaking of nightmares, I wantto see that long legs movie oh,
rachel, maybe, maybe we'll seethat one day.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, so episode 21 she doesn't want to see it I
don't even think I know whatit's about episode 21 it's
supposed to be like an homage,sorry, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
It's like an homage to like classic, like serial
killer movies oh nice, thatmight be interesting and stuff
that might be interesting, andit stars nicholas cage.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh god sure, why not?
Oh God, sure, why not?
Maybe we'll go see that.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I mean, nicolas Cage is an interesting actor.
He is, and his performances arealways something to see.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
That is very diplomatic of you, Rachel.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
No, not in a bad way.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
No, I know.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
He always brings something refreshing to the
screen Okay, okay, sure, sure.
And he's very popular in thehorror genre.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Nowadays, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, he's done some really interesting movies like
mandy and the color out of space.
Um, yeah, he's got this one andthere's one other one that I'm
trying to think of that he's in,but I can't think of it right
at on the top of my tongue.
But uh, yeah, he's, he's.
He's developed quite a littlecult following in the horror

(02:46):
movie genre.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Nice, so Nice, okay.
So episode 21,.
As always, one of us will bedoing a missing person.
That'll be Rachel this week,and then the other person is
going to do the case, and thatwill be me this week, and we are
boring for the last two weeks,so we may not have much to talk

(03:09):
about, but we might do a littlebit of gossipy, whatever.
At the end this will likely bea short one, so yay, after the
last several that are an hourplus.
So what's happening?

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Oh, you're doing your missing person, okay so I'm
going to start off with anoverview.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
I think I just saved this into my oh wait, before you
start let me just say Iapologize if you hear all kinds
of bumps and whatever.
We are drinking tea and thetable is kind of bumpy and also
used to our weird tea soundsright now.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
You should be, but also you should be my
grandmother is um.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
She refuses to wear her hearing aids, so the tv is
quite loud and even though Ihave the door open, I can still
hear it.
So if you can, I apologize,it's svu, in case you're
wondering, nice yeah, um, yeah,okay, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Sorry, better be used to our antics shakes fist.
Okay, so our missing person I'mdoing, Ingrid Colleen Lane, her
age 37, her height 5'5" and herweight 120 pounds.

(04:39):
On Sunday October 15, on Fre ohno, that's not Friday Freakway
144, 11 miles north of Highway126, in a black 2019 Subaru
Impreza hatchback with a brokenrear window.
The vehicle was found abandonedat the same location on

(05:04):
Thursday October 18th.
So and that is it does not say,but I believe this was in last
year that she went missing.
Let me check.
I don't know why it doesn't sayon this missing person little
paper.
Usually it says that, yeah,October 15th 2023.

(05:28):
Sorry about that.
I just had to double checkbecause this missing person
paper only said the, the monthand the date, and so if you have
any information regarding thewhereabouts of ing, contact the
Albuquerque Police Department at505-242-2677.

(05:49):
And it doesn't give adescription of her, but there's
a picture and she appears to bewhite or white passing, and she
appears to have brown hair and Ican't make out the color for
eyes, but they look like theycould be.
They look lightish, like maybethey're blue or green and maybe

(06:15):
hazel.
so I know that's not usually ithas this kind of information on
the paper, but for some reasonit's not there.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
That's true.
You would think that they wouldwant to do that.
Well, we'll put a picture onour Instagram.
Yes, we will.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
We will do that when we release the episode.
I have an article as well thatI'll go over later, so maybe
it'll have that information.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, so stay tuned.
Okay, so my turn now.
Yes, sorry, that's okay.
So I am doing the murders ofsam her and julie kibuishi.
I don't know if it's her orhair.
It was said two different waysin the 2020s.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
I saw in there two 2020s yeah, I hate when that
happens and yeah like, like Idon't know, yeah, which one is
the right one?

Speaker 1 (07:05):
I just want to say because I told Rachel earlier
but I know she might laugh at me, but this is a Matt Murphy case
.
But I'm not doing it because itwas a Matt Murphy case I have
been Mm-hmm.
It's true.
I've been interested in thiscase long before I knew that

(07:26):
Matt Murphy was the prosecutor.
I didn't know that until lastyear and I'd heard of this case
back when it happened.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
No, I believe you, but I definitely think that Matt
Murphy was a bonus.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
He is definitely a bonus Icing on the cake.
Icing on the cake, for sure, Imean, he's good to look at, so
why not?
So there are lots of episodeson this case.
There's a date line, there's a48 hours.
There is a couple of other onesfrom like ID that I can't place

(07:58):
right now, and then there aretwo 2020s.
One is called the Mystery inApartment 410, and that came out
right around the time of thetrial, so back in like 2015,
2016.
And then there's revamped onecalled Final Act, which is like
the old one, but with bonusmaterial.

(08:19):
I guess is the best way todescribe it, and they're both
good.
If I remember the Datelinecorrectly, I believe that was
also really good.
I mean, it's a Keith Morrison,so obviously it's going to be
good.
I do believe the podcastversion of the Dateline episode
is still available, but Icouldn't find.

(08:40):
What am I trying to say?
The visual episode yes remember.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
No, sorry if I had to look on my face, because I just
remembered the name of thefourth nicholas cage movie that
I was trying to think of.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
It's that renfield movie oh yeah, okay, yeah, I
heard of that one.
All right, I probably shouldhave done trigger warnings or
content warnings, but I didn't.
I apologize for that.
But also I want to say thatthis is honestly one of the
reasons why it stuck with me,despite the fact that it's not

(09:18):
particularly violent or brutal,but it's still really one of the
worst crimes I've heard of.
Really, because of how Should Ibuckle it for sad?
Probably Because of howdiabolical the killer is,
although I don't like to usethat word because it connotes
devilish and evil.
And I hate giving that kind ofpower to murderers but I can't

(09:41):
really think of another word tofit which really sucks.
The English language has morewords than any other language in
the world and yet we're solimited in so many ways.
Yep, it's very irritating.
Okay, so it's may 2010 and weare in costa mesa, orange county
, california.
It's a city of a hundredthousand people and averages

(10:02):
around two murders a year, soit's a pretty safe place in
Orange County, right, yeah,southern California, which part
of Orange County?
It is Costa Mesa?
Oh, okay, so Julie Kibuishi isthe 23-year-old daughter of
Japanese immigrants.

(10:22):
She is a very talented dancer.
In fact, she's talented enoughto be accepted into the
prestigious Orange County Schoolof the Arts, and kindness is
the word most often used todescribe her.
That's nice.
Yeah, sam Herr is a 26-year-oldformer Marine, with quote,

(10:42):
bradley Cooper looks.
Sometimes I could see that.
Most of the time I didn'treally see that, but he
certainly wasn't hard to look at.
When I was 26, I think he and Iare the same age I probably
would have looked at him a fewtimes.
Okay, anyway, he served inAfghanistan at Camp Keating,
which, in case you don't know,was on the front lines, and it
was pretty much under constantfire and he which, in case you

(11:05):
don't know, was on the frontlines and it was pretty much
under constant fire and heactually volunteered to do that,
so he was, I would say, prettybrave.
One of his the guys he servedwith said that they were often
under fire and it would lastanywhere from 30 minutes to
hours and Sam's job was to runthrough enemy fire to keep the

(11:27):
generators going.
Then he came back and, likemany former veterans of
Afghanistan and Iraq, he showedand other wars.
He showed signs of PTSD.
That'll be important later.
So Julie and Sam met atcommunity college.
Julie was studying fashion.

(11:47):
I don't know what Sam wasstudying, but in the second 2020
episode, the reporter or one ofthe reporters said that he was
studying so that he couldre-enlist and rise through the
ranks.
So education allows you tolevel up higher.

(12:12):
That made it sound like a videogame, but you all know what I
mean.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
It did sound like a video game.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Okay.
So anyway, they had to take ananthropology class and Julie
became his tutor for that classand through that they became
very good friends.
People, including his ownparents, wondered if there was
anything romantic in theirrelationship and he said
absolutely not.
She's like a kid sister to him.

(12:38):
So according to most everybodyit was really just a very close
platonic friendship.
She would hang out with him athis place, which was described
as an apartment complex thatwould be reminiscent of Melrose
Place, but bigger.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
In case you're too young to remember Melrose Place,
you should check that out.
It was good but not good I knowabout it, but I, you didn't,
you didn't watch it.
I only watched it a little bitwhen it first came out because I
was definitely too young towatch it.
But it is, um, it's about a lotof young people and their

(13:20):
various escapades, what Iremember, generally of a
romantic nature.
There was a lot.
They did what young people, whatbeautiful young people do,
diplomatic right, they'reescapades of a romantic nature
uh, all I remember, I think, isthat, like heather locklear was

(13:40):
in it at some point, am Ithinking of the right one?
I may not I thinking of theright one, I may not be thinking
of the right one.
There were a few shows aroundthat same time that I remember
watching episodes of, andthey've all kind of meshed
together in my brain, but it's adrama and you know, and kind of
a soap opera, but not daytimesoap opera, if you know what I

(14:04):
mean Okay.
So anyway, it's full of youngpeople, so there's a lot of
partying, a lot of hooking upand if we fast forward a bit,
it's a Saturday morning in May.
Julie's mom notices that Juliehadn't come home, so she texts
her and calls her and there's noresponse.
That same day Sam is supposedto be at his parents' house for

(14:26):
the weekend, but he never showedup.
So his dad, Steve, tried tocall him, but Sam's phone was
off.
And Steve thinks that's oddbecause Sam never turned his
phone off.
He gives or, I'm sorry.
He goes to Sam's apartment tomake sure everything's okay when
he walks in, everything's neatand clean.

(14:47):
He tries calling Sam again, buthis phone is still off.
Steve walks into the bedroomand he sees a large amount of
blood and a body.
Her pants have been pulled downand Steve calls 911.
So obviously the police seem tothink it's a slam dunk case,
right?
Everything points to Sam beingJulie's killer.

(15:08):
In case you didn't guess, thebody was Julie.
The police put out an APB forhim.
They label him armed anddangerous.
I mean, he is a trained veteran, Right, who suffers at least
from mild PTSD.
Yeah, Okay.
So back to the scene, theapartment, yeah sorry, sorry to
interrupt you, but aren'tveterans?

Speaker 2 (15:30):
yeah, I usually consider like a higher level of
danger automatically because,yeah, they're training yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
So back to the scene.
The apartment shows no signs ofa struggle.
Again, it's neat.
Everything's in its place.
I mean, there might be a fewbeer cans, like out on the patio
or whatever, but you know it'snot.
There's no signs that anythinghappened.
On the counter they find awedding invitation for Sam's

(15:57):
downstairs neighbors, danielWozniak and Rachel Buffett.
They are both actors in thelocal community theater and
that'll be important later, sostick a pin in that.
Yeah, julie's body is on the bed.
She had a gunshot wound to thehead and is wearing a tiara, so

(16:18):
the tiara had been given to hereither by her brother or his
fiancé to her, either by herbrother or his fiance, the 2020s
.
One said one and one said theother and they, I guess, had
asked Julie to be part of thewedding I think a bridesmaid,
and according to Julie's mom,she was so excited about it and

(16:38):
hadn't taken off the tiara.
There is a message written onher shirt that says all yours,
fuck you.
The police hear a taylor swiftsong starting to play and they
follow it and find julie's phoneand they see that it had
several texts from sam.
He said that he was helpingdaniel with something and then

(17:02):
was heading to his parents house, but then a few hours the tone
of the messages change and heseems to be in distress, asking
her to come over alone.
The working theory is that Sammay have been drinking and or
doing drugs and then snappedsexually assaulting her, killing
her, and then he fled.

(17:23):
Yeah, they ask Daniel andRachel if they know anything.
Daniel says that they hung outfor a bit, but that sam left
with some unknown guy in a blackhat.
Rachel also says that he leftwith a guy in a black hat.
Stick a pin pin in that it'sgoing to come back.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
The guy in the black hat.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yes, police and senior deputy district attorney
Matt Murphy also think it'spretty obvious that Sam killed
Julie.
That is especially true afterthey discovered that Sam had
already been in big trouble inthe past.
In fact, he had been arrestedand tried for murder.
He had been accused of luring afriend outside to a parking lot

(18:09):
where he was killed by gangmembers.
He was ultimately acquitted,but the thought is still that if
he could do something like thatonce, he'd probably be willing
to do it again, or at least havethe capacity to do it again.
So Sam's dad begins to conducthis own parallel investigation

(18:37):
because he believes that Sam isa victim himself.
He is the one who notices thatsomeone in Long Beach is
withdrawing money from a bankaccount that he shares with Sam.
Sam had saved up $62,000 incombat pay.
Steve goes there and hangsaround and then gets an alert
that the card is being used at apizza place, and so he then

(18:58):
goes to the pizza place lookingfor Sam's car, because the car,
I guess, had also been missingfrom the apartment complex,
which would add to the he fledthing.
So the police also notice thatthere's activity on Sam's card
and they actually have a leadover Steve, because they have

(19:18):
access to the ATM cameras.
The bank sends them the videosand they discover that it's not
Sam but a kid.
They kept using the term kidand he would be a kid, but he's
more like a teenager, not a realyoung kid, and that kid is
unknown to them, to Sam'sparents, pretty much to
everybody involved in the case.

(19:38):
So the police go to the pizzaplace and they find out where
the pizza was being delivered.
They go to that address andthey find out where the pizza
was being delivered.
They go to that address andthey find Wesley Freilich.
The police quickly realize thatthat is the teenager and that
he isn't the killer, and that indoing a search, they find that

(19:59):
Sam isn't in the house either.
So Wesley tells the police thathe got Sam's ATM card and pin
number from a friend, an olderguy that his mom had met in
community theater, danielWozniak, who is the downstairs
neighbor.
Daniel told Wesley that Samowed a bunch of money to a bail

(20:23):
bondsman and he asked him tohelp withdraw money from an ATM.
Apparently, daniel also had afolder with paperwork that
showed that his scheme was legal, and the reporters in 2020, you
know obviously pointed out thatthat's something that grown
adults would not take seriously,but I I mean a teenager

(20:47):
probably, certainly would.
The police obviously want totalk to Daniel.
They call him and tell him thatthey need to talk to him, but
he blows them off.
He tells them he's busy, thathe's at his bachelor party.
Okay, so the fact that he has abachelor party, that there's a
wedding coming up, that's a bigdeal in this case.

(21:07):
So remember that.
I don't think I said thatbefore, but there is a big
wedding, yeah.
So the police go to him.
He's arrested and taken into forinterrogation.
Well, one of the episodes sayshe was arrested in.
One of the episodes says he wasjust taken down to be
questioned.
So I don't really know.
He says that he's sick ofcovering for Sam and will tell

(21:29):
them everything.
So let's do a little backgroundon Daniel.
He was active in the communitytheater scene.
He was described as fun and agood actor who always had money
problems.
At this point in time he wasstarring in the musical nine
alongside his fiancee, rachel.
Rachel was described as moreserious and standoffish, which

(21:53):
many saw as being rude and umsame, I get told that I'm like
that a lot too.
Uh, neither had a job and needscash to finance his wedding and
honeymoon.
So back to the interrogation.
Daniel says he and Sam had aplan to withdraw funds from an

(22:13):
ATM and Sam would report hisaccount as stolen, he says, and
then Sam would give him somemoney for his help.
He says he doesn't know whereSam is, but he does admit to
using the kid to take the moneyout of his account.
So he admits to part of it.
And when it comes to the timeof Julie's murder, he says that
he had had a performance thatnight.

(22:35):
He had done well.
He and Rachel had went home, hetook a shower, they had sex.
They go to sleep.
The next morning he says Samcame over and told him that he
did something bad, that hekilled someone in a fit of rage.
He tells them Sam threatenedhim and Rachel so he helped Sam
escape.
And that's the first story.

(22:55):
Anyway, cops obviously don'tbelieve him.
At one point Daniel agrees tohave his DNA collected.
He starts to make excuses forwhy his DNA would be at the
scene and it's here that hemakes a critical mistake.
So he tells them that he was inSam's apartment the afternoon

(23:16):
of the murder.
Then he says he was in the roomand saw Julie's body.
Then he says he was next to thebody but didn't touch her.
The police finally ask what itwas that he saw and he said I
saw two gunshots to her head.
So out of that paragraph, whatis the mistake?

Speaker 2 (23:37):
I don't know because I don't remember what she said
happened to her earlier,happened to her earlier.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Okay, that's okay.
Okay, so she had been, that'sokay.
She had been described ashaving a gunshot wound to the
head, one gunshot wound to thehead, and that is from the
police, right?
So the police are there andthey were looking at the body

(24:09):
very closely and they can onlysee one gunshot wound.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
So in order for he would have to have knowledge
that they didn't have he wouldhave to have knowledge.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
he either did it or he was in the room when it
happened.
So the police eventually endthe interrogation and they send
him off to his cell.
While there, daniel makes aphone call to Rachel.
During the call, rachel saysshe needs to talk to a detective

(24:35):
because she found out thatDaniel's brother, tim, is
carrying around incriminatingevidence and she wants to do
this before the detectiveslisten to the call and think
that she's trying to hidesomething.
So she clearly knows that theylisten to jailhouse calls.
Daniel says something like I'mdoomed, oh God, oh God, oh God.

(24:56):
He says a bunch of otherincriminating statements along
the same lines and he tries toget her not to tell.
And then he admits that the gunis part of the evidence that
tim has.
So she basically calls him anidiot because he said all of
this on the phone which is beingrecorded.
So he's basically admitted tomurder and daniel tells the

(25:20):
jailer that he needs to speak toa detective.
He tells the detective thathe's a pathological liar who
couldn't admit to his fiancethat he had no job, no money and
was about to be evicted andcould not afford to marry her.
I should also point out thatRachel didn't have a job either,
but Sam had all that moneysaved that $62,000 from his

(25:43):
combat pay and he had actuallyoffered to help Daniel pay for
his wedding.
And I should also point out too, it was only mentioned in one
of the 2020s, but Daniel hadborrowed money from a lot of
people, so he owed a lot ofmoney.
But when Daniel figured out thatSam had $62,000, he felt like

(26:07):
that would be problem solved.
So Daniel tells theinvestigators that he killed Sam
.
First, he actually lured Sam tothe Liberty Theater, the
community theater, and he toldSam that he needed to get
something from the attic.
And while they are up there,daniel retrieved a gun and shot
Sam in the back of the head.

(26:28):
He said Sam was still alive andasking for help, and then
Daniel shot him again.
He tells the police that hedecapitated Sam and cut off his
hands, which can be found inplastic bags buried in shallow
holes at a park.
Why, yeah?
What's even more disturbing isthat he admits to the police

(26:51):
that he was smiling and laughingwhile he did this.
Now, he either actually wassmiling and laughing or he was
trying to set up like aninsanity defense.
Yeah, because he had beencaught, I guess, saying
something along those lines toRachel.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Did he say like why was he trying to prevent the
body from being identified?
Like, why did he cut off thehands and the head?
That's probably why I mean theycan still like DNA test.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, but it would take longer, that's true.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
I mean, aren't they like, like, where's that missing
person?
You know, here's a body thatmatches, you know the, the
height, and you know, like,build that person like even
without a head, yeah, hands no,I know he's not.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
He's not thinking.
I mean, I think when you'remurdering someone, you're
probably not thinking throughall of the logistics.
That's true, okay?
So anyway, he takes Sam's phoneand sends those odd texts to
Julie asking her to come over,saying to come over alone, and
whatever.
Why, why didn't, why, why?

Speaker 2 (27:59):
would he want Julie to come over?
Why would he need to kill Juliealso?

Speaker 1 (28:05):
That's coming up.
Hold on, all right, gettingahead of the game.
Okay, so Daniel was waiting atthe apartment and he and Julie
went in and he asked her ifshe'd seen something in Sam's
bed.
She leaned over and he shot hertwice in the back of the head.
When asked why he would killjulie who's a near stranger he

(28:30):
said it was to cover up sam'smurder.
He thought it would make itlook like sam had raped and
killed julie and then went onthe run, which is exactly what
happened.
One yeah, that's so cold, Iknow it's one of of the reasons
that I think this is one of theworst crimes.
Once he killed Julie, he wentto the rap party.

(28:51):
Remember, he's in that musical.
Nine 2020 actually showed avideo of that rap party and you
can see him smiling and laughingand it's actually really kind
of disturbing if you know whathe'd just done.
Yeah, the police go to the parkand look for sam's remains,
which they find, and it was onsam's 27th birthday that they

(29:14):
found his his remains.
That's really fucked up yeah hisbody was so unrecognizable that
he had to be identified by atattoo on his chest, which was
of a heart and a rose.
That said mom and dad.
Yeah, he may not have knownthere was a tattoo because it
was on his chest.
So, again, it was a heart and arose.

(29:36):
That said mom and dad.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Murder is not logical .
Don't do it.
No, don't, don't.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
No, don't be dumb.
The police also found abackpack with his ID passport
and the gun that killed him.
Once Daniel is arrested and itgoes public, all kinds of people
start to come forward,including a jazz musician named
Chris Williams.
Chris had loaned Daniel a lotof money and went to Daniel's

(30:04):
apartment the day of the murdersto collect it.
He had told Daniel that it wasmafia money or something along
those lines, and was it?
No, he told.
I'm sure he told him that justso that Daniel would pay him
back.
Yeah, sam was at the apartmentwhen Chris got there, and then

(30:25):
Daniel and Sam left to go getthe money.
Chris stays with Rachel forthree hours until Daniel finally
gets back, but he's alone.
Chris says that he seems to bealmost hyperventilating and he
basically throws $400 at Chris,says here's the money and then

(30:46):
Chris leaves.
So the police now want to knowwhy Rachel didn't tell them
about Chris, who was a veryimportant potential witness At
one point.
They give her a voice stresstest, which apparently can give
the operator an idea oftruthfulness.
I don't know how it worksexactly.
I don't know.
I doubt exactly.
I don't know, I doubt it'sadmissible in court or anything.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean, you could be stressed for a number.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, I'm sure talking to the police is
stressful.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, I was going to say I would be stressed to just
talk to the cops.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, no, I know, every time somebody says things
like that I think of when I hadmy name legally changed and I
had to go in front of the judge.
Now, I did nothing wrong.
I was just there to tell thejudge why I wanted my name
legally changed and I said mylast name was my what did I say?
My father-in-law's name?

(31:38):
I wasn't married and it wasn'tmy father-in-law's name, it was
my stepfather's name.
Yeah, right, like, and itwasn't just a slip of the tongue
.
I was nervous, yeah, and again,I wasn't there for any horrible
reason.
Yeah, you know.
So, yeah, I don't know how anyof that stuff can be taken.

(32:01):
Right, she apparently wassoft-spoken and they do show the
video.
And she it was hard to hear her, yeah, and they felt that she
was deceptive.
She is eventually arrested asan accessory after the fact for
lying to protect daniel.
So it isn't just that she hidinformation, which is to say she
didn't tell them about thethree hours she spent with Chris

(32:23):
Williams that day, right, butshe actually provided the false
information.
Do you remember what that was?
Rachel provided falseinformation Along with Daniel.
They both did.
She corroborated it.
No, I don't remember the guy inthe black hat.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Oh, yes, I remember I mentioned the guy in the black
hat, but then I forgot about him.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, so lying in case you don't know.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Sorry, I'm not having a good short-term memory day
today.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
That's okay.
So that's another thing toremember.
Folks, Don't lie for anybody.
You can still be considered anaccessory to murder.
Not worth it Very much.
Not worth it, no matter howmuch you think you love them.
So Daniel wound up pleading notguilty.
Not worth it very much.
Not worth it, no matter howmuch you think you love them.
So daniel wound up pleading notguilty.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
The trial lasted five days I mean imagine being in
love with somebody who wouldhack somebody's head and hands
off and bury them in a park andthen shoot somebody twice in the
back of the head, just so itseemed like that other person
killed them.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, yeah, no, I know there would be no love left
.
Yeah, and also, what makes iteven more ick is that in some of
the phone calls that theyrecorded, that they put on 2020,
she asks him a series ofquestions like well, you don't
have money, then why did youlike move out of your parents

(33:47):
house, or something like that.
And he's like I was about tokill them.
Yeah, yeah, he's like.
And then she was like were you,did you ever think about
killing me?
And he goes no, never you.
Yeah.
And then she's like no, not you.
No.
And then at one point I don'tremember the exact quote, but at

(34:09):
one point she basically sayslike this is wrong, it's
horrible, it's a terrible thingto do, it's disgusting, whatever
.
But I can also see why you didit for like you did it for me
for our wedding and ourhoneymoon.
I probably didn't.
I didn't, I didn't make thatclear.
He wasn't just broke.

(34:29):
He needed to pay for thewedding and he needed to pay for
the honeymoon and he wanted totake her.
He wanted to take her on like areally badass honeymoon well,
what are they gonna do after thefucking honeymoon?

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Dude, he's not thinking.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
He's not thinking Clearly.
Clearly I mean yeah, he's onlythinking short term.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Folks, a wedding is not about a fucking wedding and
a honeymoon.
It is about your marriage.
Yeah, get over yourselves andgo to the courthouse.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, that's what I did.
You can have the party later.
You can have the honeymoonlater or not have one at all.
Did you have one?

Speaker 2 (35:12):
no, I, yeah, I have kids, I have a honeymoon.
Yeah, I don't think I know.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
I don't think I know anyone in my generation that had
a honeymoon.
We're all fucking poor.
We can't afford to go on ahoneymoon.
We're all fucking poor.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
We can't afford to go on a honeymoon.
Exactly Another fuckingindustry that millennials killed
.
Yeah, we killed the honeymoonindustry.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
So he pleads not guilty despite the fact that he
has confessed and he's led themto the body and whatever.
He pleads not guilty and thetrial lasts five days.
It's actually a pretty quicktrial, in part because one, the
defense had no opening statementand called no witnesses, yeah,
which is bonkers.

(35:56):
You don't really see thathappening too often, I don't.
I don't think I could be wrong,but so basically it's just like
we got nothing.
Yeah, basically, it's just theprosecutor, matt Murphy, at the
time up there like laying outevery reason this guy is guilty.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Right, and it was actually a sight to behold Matt
Murphy.
He deserves the accolades.
I think he was a pretty becauseI watch court TV and I see and
I watch a lot of trials andstuff.
I think he was.
He's probably one of the betterones, not probably he is one of
the better ones.
Anyway, okay, now that I'm Ifawned over Matt.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Murphy Okay.
Kb says I declare murphy okay.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Kb says I declare oh my god, I'm gonna be so
embarrassed if he ever listensto this.
I mean, I don't think he wouldever listen to no, no, no, I
don't need to be embarrassed,I'm already embarrassed.
I'm blushing.
Nobody can tell that, but I'mblushing, can you, we?

(37:02):
I mean, I do need to put thisstuff on YouTube, but if we
actually started recording, likedoing video recordings, our
faces would be so red Well, myface would be red like 90% of
the time, it's true.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, Okay, and I have a little smirk, I think.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, maybe we'd come offbetter.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
People could see our facial expressions.
I turned red.
I think that time you talkedabout the Spock harem, the what,
the Spock harem I don'tremember that what.
That was like a couple, I don'tknow how many episodes we were
talking about all the differentversions of Spock, and we're
talking about spock harem.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Oh, oh, oh oh.
I think that one made me blush.
I thought you said speculum.
I was like no, jesus, what thespock no, speculum does not make
me blush no, I wouldn't thinkso.
That's why that's why j Christ,that's why I was confused.
That's why I was confused.
Yeah, that did make you blush.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Speculum is like the opposite of hot.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
I know.
No, I know, I know.
I mean for some people it's not.
There is a whole.
Why am I doing this?
This is the reading of slutmaterial coming out here, but
there is a whole sub-genre ofmedical play, and a lot of that
involves speculants.

(38:32):
Yeah, I don't know why anywoman would find that I mean not
to yuck anybody's yum, but itis not a pleasant experience.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
No, no, to me it's not nice no, it's painful, yeah,
honestly it's it's.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
It's painful at worst , it's un very uncomfortable at
best yeah, and there's like awhole gymnastics thing you got
into.
Why am I talking about this?
Tune in to hear more about ourcervix.
Anyway, there's some medicalplay.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Now, you're really rough, oh God.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Okay, there's medical play.
It's uncomfortable, in casethere are any men out there
listening when your wife or ladycomes home from that doctor
give her some ice cream, yeah orsome snackies, give her a kiss
on the forehead, tell her she'sa good girl and then leave her

(39:40):
alone all right, now that I'mdone, embarrassing both of
ourselves.
Spock harem specula.
Oh, my god.
Okay, what was the spock hair?

Speaker 2 (39:48):
oh, because you, you like all the spocks yeah, we
were talking about how all thedifferent versions of spock are
sexy in their own way, yeah,yeah, okay, I remember, I
remember, I apologize, Iapologize.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
I remember my own embarrassing moments.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
I don't include yours , sorry, Well, I wanted to
include it because I wanted toyou know even the playing field
here a little bit.
Yes, I, appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I appreciate that I was just thinking.
I think that's the only timeI've ever embarrassed you in the
like 15 years we've known eachother yeah, perhaps I you want
to hear, you want to hear anembarrassing, I don't even.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I can't even remember exactly what I said.
But but you, I have a smartmouth and I, I was, I was in
like history class and Iremember I said something.
I was trying to make a dig atthis dude but people like took
it the wrong way and theythought that I was into him.

(40:55):
And then the teacher made funof me.
I was like, no, no, that's notwhat I meant, and it was
terrible.
I wanted to die.
Oh yeah, it was like a millionyears ago, though I don't even
remember exactly what I saidthat's horrible the teacher made
fun of you.
Yes, no the teacher was anasshole yeah, sounds like it,

(41:17):
god, yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
the only really embarrassing school thing I can
remember is saying orgasminstead of organism and not
knowing what that was, because Iwas a very naive child.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
I did that too, but thankfully only to my older
sister and not to like at school.
Yeah no, but I had plenty ofembarrassing moments at school
as well.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
I probably did too.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
I just and I only went to public school for four
years.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
So I'm sure I have more.
I just blocked them.
I'm very good at blockingthings, Nice.
Okay, now that we're doneembarrassing ourselves.
So againiel pled not guilty.
The trial lasted five days.
Defense had no opening, nowitnesses, basically it's just
mr murphy laying out why he didit and why he's guilty and in

(42:18):
their closing the defense'sclosing they never actually used
the words innocent and neverasked for a not guilty verdict.
And actually one of the jurorssays the trial was never about
whether or not he was guilty.
Yeah, I think most of it wasfor the sentencing phase, which
is crazy.
I mean, I guess I don't knowwhat defense they could make

(42:43):
it's difficult.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, he confessed.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah, he did it.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, so that's a toughie, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Okay, so the jury found him guilty.
And then, since California is adeath penalty state, although
at the moment there's amoratorium on the death penalty
they still had.
At the time there wasn't amoratorium and they had to
decide whether or not Danielshould be sentenced to death.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Mr Murphy argues for it.
Obviously the defense says look, he's reformed while he's in
prison.
It's been about five years.
It was a very long wait betweenarrest and trial and helping
other prisoners.
And they also blame Rachel,claiming that she manipulated

(43:33):
him or something.
I didn't really.
They blame her.
Yeah, Well, rachel's also ontrial or will be on trial.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Well, that's understandable.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
That's a typical thing of blaming the other.
That's a typical defense.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
But like she didn't seem like she was involved in
the premeditation of the crime.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
There's actually, if you listen to the tapes and you
watch the, we'll talk about thatin a minute.
Okay, hold on.
Okay, I wasn't impressed withthe closing arguments, although
they only showed like 10 secondsof it.
So the defense says look, ohwait, I already said that he's
reformed and he is actuallyhelping other prisoners.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
He's become a christian, whatever I mean,
that's just, that's just anargument too yeah, but I mean I,
agree, I don't.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
I don't believe in the death penalty, so yeah but I
don't think that's why theysaid he was christian.
Sure, yeah, again, they blamerachel.
Rachel at first.
The jury when they go back is10-2 for the death penalty, but
then the two holdout jurorsthink about that, right, like
they.
They actually brought up apoint that my grandmother

(44:44):
brought up back when new mexicohad the death penalty and she,
she had a trial like that.
It's one thing to in theorybefore the death penalty.
It's another thing when you'rethe one who has to make that
choice.
Yeah, because you areessentially sending somebody to
you're.

(45:05):
You are the executioner.
You may not actually press thebutton or whatever, but, right,
you are sending them to deathand that's a hard thing for a
lot of people.
I it should be a hard thing forpeople.
Even if the person is a monster, it's because you are a good
person.
It should still be, I think, aquestion, at least a question

(45:27):
that you need to think about.
Anyway, those two dudes thoughtabout it.
I think they were dudes andwhat they said was they thought
about their family and thefamily's testimonies.
When you're doing it'sbasically both sides you want to
bring in people to the defense,wants to bring in people to
show that he's a good person,blah, blah, blah.

(45:49):
The prosecution side wants tobring in the families and tell
them how horrible this wholeexperience has been.
What their children, children,what their loved one was like
right.
And so julie's mom I think hername is june and steve, you know

(46:09):
brought in pictures like of thefuneral.
They brought in pictures ofthem when they were kids or
whatever right, and they see thelike, raw emotion, even though
it's been five years, the veryraw emotion, and the jurors said
that they thought about thatand when they went to vote a

(46:29):
second time, it was a unanimous12-12 for the death penalty.
Oddly, or maybe not oddly, ittook less than an hour for them
to come to this conclusion which, according to 2020, at least
the first 2020, back in 2016 orwhatever, said that it was the

(46:49):
shortest death penaltydeliberations on record.
So, despite that, when thejurors are talking about it, you
can really tell that theydidn't make the decision lately.
As I was saying before, it mayhave been quick, but I think it
shows that they again yearslater at that point I guess it
would be weeks later, but theyalso talked about it in the

(47:10):
second 2020, which would havebeen years after that that they
really thought about it andsearched within themselves to
see if they would be okay withit.
Rachel's trial takes place twoyears after daniel's.
She was found guilty on twocounts of accessory after the
fact and sentenced to 32 monthsin jail.

(47:30):
I believe she got out in 2019.
There was something else, um,but I don't remember.
Anyway.
That was, I think, one of theworst murders probably that I've
heard of, simply because of thefact that he used an innocent
young lady in order to cover uphis own crime and besmirch.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Sorry, excuse me, I burped.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
And besmirched a by all accounts decent young man's
name, yeah, Making him into arapist and a killer.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Yeah, that's horrific , just for 60,000 bucks.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Yeah, yeah, so he can take his fiancée on a honeymoon
.
That's madness, it is madnesson a honeymoon?

Speaker 2 (48:25):
that's madness, it is madness.
Uh, you were gonna tell meabout evidence that suggested
that that the fiance wasinvolved oh, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
It's not really evidence, so she was never
charged with it and I don't knowthat anybody thinks really that
she was involved in theplanning yeah but the question
is how much she knew, yeah,after the fact, and actually
there may be some question aboutit maybe he didn't tell her

(48:51):
that he murdered anybody, butshe didn't tell them about that
jazz musician, right?
So she clearly at leastsuspected something, right?
And that is against the law todo that, right?
But again, that can go eitherway.
It can show that she maybe,yeah, that could show that maybe

(49:14):
she suspects it or she knewahead of time.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
And kept that musician busy for those three
hours interesting, like she knewthat he like yeah, at least he
was up to something.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah, something no good.
Yeah, even if it's just, I'mgonna go take care of this money
thing.
Yeah, like that's stillinformation.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Also they kind of point to like some of the things
she said in the phone calls,but also her very detached
manner.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
You know, now I again don't know how much stock I
would put in that personally,because I come off the same way
a lot of the time, right In themiddle of emergencies or when I
am feeling an extreme emotionother than annoyance.
Annoyance, you can tell I'mannoyed, but in any other way I
come off as being detached.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Disassociation is a common shock response.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Yeah, yeah, and even months later, remembering
something or thinking aboutsomething painful, you can
become detached from it, and Icertainly do that and I can
certainly see.
If I were in a similarsituation and I were completely
innocent, didn't know anythingand wasn't covering, I could
still see myself being detachedor possibly being detached.

(50:36):
Obviously, I have no idea Icould be a crying mess for all I
know, but just judging from myown past experiences I could
come off as very detached.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
I certainly come off as rude sometimes to people yeah
, you know, no, people think Icome off as rude.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, sometimes yeah, without saying anything, I just
look like I'm.
I just look like I'm rude,apparently, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Or if I'm just being firm about like what, like yeah,
like I'm stating something,like I'm going to do this, or
you know, apparently that's rude, Like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yeah, I feel like.
Well, that I think gets intosexismism because women aren't
supposed to do those things.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Yeah, I was going to say, but this is more like she
looks like.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
she comes off as being like maybe a little shy,
maybe not shy, but like quietand reserved and for whatever
reason, a lot of people turnthat into rude.
I've been told that toostandoffish and rude.
Really, I'm just a very anxiousperson and probably trying not

(51:51):
to make a complete idiot out ofmyself.
I'm not trying to be rude.
If you came up and talked to me, I'd give you a big smile and
I'd do my best to take part in aconversation.
It'd be very awkward because Idon't.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Oh my God, I'm so bad at like small talk.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Yeah, I can't, I don't do small talk, well at all
, but you know, it's not a lotof people.
It's not a lot of people.
Most people think correctly,that I'm just a little bit
reserved or just a little bitquiet, maybe even even shy.
But there are people who takean instant dislike to me because
they think I'm being rude,because I'm not the life of the

(52:27):
party, you know I think that'ssuch a weird take.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Like people are different, yeah, no, they're not
gonna have the same and weshouldn't expect that everybody
has the same responses or thesame enthusiasm.
I don't know, I think that kindof fits into this weird
corporate capitalist kind ofthing where we expect we want
everybody to have this same likeweird hyper-enthusiastic kind

(52:55):
of, you know, like extrovert,outgoing go-get-em leader,
whatever personality.
Yeah, so it seems weird and thething is that most people are
putting on a work sauna orwhatever.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah.
It's all fake, but you know somepeople can't, some people are
just good at it it and somepeople can't.
Exactly, I can't fakeenthusiasm, right, chances are.
If there is a crowd, if it's aparty.
I am doing my best not to havea panic attack.
Yeah, that is what's happening,not because I'm worried about

(53:37):
anybody judging me, but becauseI have a phobia.
So I'm just trying really,really hard not to pass out,
right, you know.
But you know that.
Yeah, I guess for those of usthat have those issues the often
being misunderstood issues Ithink we're probably a little

(53:58):
more sensitive to that.
I don't look at somebody and gothat person's rude.
Yeah, I'm like maybe thatperson has a phobia, just like
me.
Yeah, and if I weren't tryingto keep myself from passing out,
maybe I'd go over and talk toher, make a new friend.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think maybe thatperson's neurodivergent, because
we all have our different likeperceptions.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Although I can also see how people judge immediately
, like to be honest.
So I've been aware of this casesince probably 2012, 2013.
Like it was after the murderhappened and he was arrested,
but I'm pretty sure it wasbefore the trial and there was

(54:47):
some sort of show.
It wasn't 2020.
It wasn't Dateline.
It was one of those true crimeshows that are more on the ick
spectrum than on the okayspectrum right, what do you mean
ick spectrum?
Okay spectrum, right.
What do you mean?
X spectrum like so?
I like true crime there's, it'son it.
There's like a I would call ita spectrum.

(55:07):
There is the high quality stuffthat is very careful with the
victims and the victims families, and there are the ones that
are like you you look at it andyou're entertained, but you're
like that's a littleuncomfortable yeah, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Okay, I get what you're saying, like it's cringy,
it's it's it's low, like yeahlow brow, yeah, I guess you
could say, yes, low brow.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
So I think, if I'm remembering correctly, it was
one of those and but they stillshow like actual pictures of
people, right?
So they showed an actualpicture of him.
They hadn't said anything.
I had no idea that was thekiller when I saw that picture,
but I remember thinking, justfrom the picture that guy's

(55:53):
creepy, yeah, like that, likeI'm, I wouldn't want to be
anywhere near this guy.
And it turns out he was thekiller, right, and yet so many
people fell for his.
You know fun, fun-loving,laughing all the time persona,

(56:16):
you know, yeah, but anyway, hisimage stuck with me just because
of that immediate reaction.
Like I didn't know his nameuntil like a couple of years ago
.
I didn't know the killer's name, but I remembered his face.
Like I don't know if you've hadthis You've seen cases or
you've come across cases andmaybe you don't remember

(56:36):
everything, but snippets of itpop into your brain every once
in a while and you're thinkingabout something else completely
and then it just pops into yourhead.
That was this case for me.
So like I didn't really knowthe details until a few years
ago and even now, doing thislast night.
I had forgotten a lot of it,but it is one of those cases

(56:58):
that popped up every so often,randomly, and his image would
pop up in my head.
I don't really see images orpeople in my brain ever.
We've talked about that beforetalking about, right, okay, so
you don't know what I'm talkingabout.
I can't come up with images inmy brain at all, like if I close

(57:19):
my eyes and you ask me toimagine a chair, I couldn't do
it.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't know how.
Like, intuitively, I know whata chair is, but I couldn't
conjure up an image.
And I definitely can't conjureup faces, even your face.
I've known you for 15 years.
We see each other all the timeif I was asked to describe you.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
I couldn't, I couldn't there's a word for like
face blindness well, it is faceblindness, but it's not
entirely face blindness.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
It's like it's everything.
Um.
Right, it's like when I read abook I don't see images in my
head either, anyway.
But the reason I'm bringingthat up is because his image,
though blurry, pops up in myhead.
It's a little blurry, but it'sclear for me in the sense that
nothing else is clear.

(58:04):
Right, and that's startling.
You know, that's stuck with me.
I don't know, I don't know whyI brought that up, but it's
weird.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Yeah, no, that's creepy.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
It is creepy.
Do you have one like that?

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Not that I can think of off the top of my head, but
since I have slow, since we'retalking about brain stuff, I
have really slow mentalprocessing speed.
My mental processing speed isin like the 10th percentile.
I think we've talked about thatbefore, but I don't know if
we've talked about on thepodcast.
So sometimes I don't like thinkof it's, it's hard, it like it

(58:39):
doesn't come to me right awayand then like, so maybe it'll
occur to me like something laterokay, that is like that yeah,
so okay, so that is huh, that,uh, that one.
I was telling you about a weekor two ago about that kid who

(59:01):
maybe got drowned or got eatenby the sharks or whatever.
What was his name I alreadyforget.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Oh, the kid that jumped off the boat, the kid
that jumped off the boat.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Yep, I was telling you, watch out, don't jump off
the boat.
Right, there was, like you know, like people were trying to
like analyze the image and thereis one analysis like I don't
know if it was like just the waythat they whatever like because
they were putting the imagelike zooming in and putting it

(59:36):
through like different, likedifferent light filters or
whatever, but it did really lookto me like the shape of a bull
shark's snout that was realsquare and that image really
freaked me out.
Yeah, because I was like Ican't see anything.
I can't see anything.
And then, all of a sudden, Icould see, like the shape and I

(01:00:00):
was like, oh shit, like not onlycould I see the shape of the
shark's head, but it distinctlylooked like a bull shark head or
I'm sorry, not a bull sharkhead, a tiger shark.
I'm sorry, I don't know why I'msaying bull shark head.
It looked like a tiger sharkhead, because a tiger shark has,
like, a very squared head.
I don't know why I was sayingbull shark.

(01:00:20):
It was because, see, this isanother thing that I do, I get
things mixed up, because it'slike shark month or whatever.
Also, it's ice cream month andshark month, and there was a
thing saying what kind of sharkwould you be?
And I was thinking, well, Iwould either be like a bull
shark or a poor beagle, becausethose are fat sharks.

(01:00:41):
So I had like the thought of abull shark in my head.
No, and there are quite a bitof bull sharks in that area as
well A bull shark has a verydamn it.
I'm doing it again.
It's okay, 's okay.
A tiger, a tiger shark has avery squared head and like.

(01:01:03):
So when you see it head on,it's like this rectangular snout
shape right, and that was theshape that I saw and it flips.
Flipped you out, yeah, freakedyou out, yeah it did freak me
out.
Yeah, I was like it's coming upand it's it's getting him.
Yeah, it may have been just ashape again.

(01:01:26):
You know, like they were doingall these filters and like it's
really fucking hard to see likewhat the fuck is going on, right
?

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
but, but it's still something that sticks with you,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
I really I recognized that shape and I was like, wow,
that's it, there's the shark, Isee it yeah.
Yeah, Don't sue me somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Yeah, okay, so you're missing person.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Yes, let's go over that.
So you're missing person.
Yes, let's go over that.
I remember how you were saying,like how we don't get a lot of
news from Albuquerque.
This is like one of them.
This seems to have been like abig Albuquerque story and I
don't remember hearing about it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
You would think they would want it down here in case,
like in case she ran away orsomething Right, or she came
down here.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
So if this sounds familiar to you, let me know.
So it says family desperate foranswers.
In search of albuquerque womanin jamez springs, 37 year old
ingrid lane, has been reportedmissing since Sunday, october 15
, 2023.
According to the localauthorities, lane was last seen
on Freeway 144, 11 miles northof Highway 126, traveling in a

(01:02:47):
black 2019 Subaru Imprezahatchback.
Her vehicle was found abandonedwith a broken rear window at
the same location on Thursday,october 18, 2023.
According to family members,lane visited a meditation center
in Jemez Spring days before shewas reported missing to unwind

(01:03:09):
from the stressors of life.
According to Ingrid's husband,louis Scuderi, she's my person I
don't know how to better put itthan that Scuderi told KOAT.
He described his wife as one ofa kind, a love unmatched.
She left the house very earlyin the morning, around 5 to 5.30

(01:03:32):
in the morning.
She told me she was going tothe Bodhi Amanda Zen Center in
Jemez Springs, where she's livedup before, stayed many times
and even stayed over there theweek before convenience.
I don't know what that means.
Oh, for convenience, becauseshe works up in Los Alamos every

(01:03:54):
once in a while.
Ingrid Lane's husband, louisGuderi, said I thought nothing
of it and in fact I was veryencouraging of her going up
there to do a meditation retreat.
She'd had some strugglesrecently so I thought that's a
great idea.
I just thought she's up there.
She's unplugged from her phone,I'm not going to interrupt that
, but come it was it Tuesday Ithink.

(01:04:18):
I called her mom and a coupleof friends who hadn't heard from
her.
I was starting to get worried.
First thing Wednesday morning Icalled the Zen Center and they
said she had been there,probably at 8 or 9 am that
Sunday, but had left.
Skidari said we chatted onFriday.
We had this great conversation,according to Inga Sorry, they

(01:04:41):
kind of abruptly switchedperspectives to her twin sister,
kelsey Lane.
She said we chatted on Fridayand we had this great
conversation.
She was talking about her plansfor the future.
She was thinking about adifferent graduate program and
she was talking about plans tomaybe go visit one of our

(01:05:01):
cousins who's one of herfavorite people.
We didn't talk over the weekendso I didn't think anything of
it.
Ingrid Lane's twin sister,kelsey Lane, told KOAT she's
incredible.
We're identical twins.
We're very close, lane toldKOAT.
I have not felt her presencethe same way since.
I'm trying not to read intothat, but it definitely makes me

(01:05:24):
sad.
It makes me worry.
I just hope she's okay.
Lane told KOAT.
I felt the strongest urge tocall her on Monday afternoon,
like gosh, I need to talk toIngrid right now.
I called her and it wentstraight to voicemail.
So I thought, okay, she mustnot have her phone on.
She's been going to the ZenCenter.
Her phone doesn't even work.

(01:05:46):
You hit him at Springs and itstops working From there on it
didn't work at all.
So I thought, okay, that'sweird.
We'll connect tomorrow.
I'm sure she'll call me backtomorrow.
But then Wednesday morning Lewisfiled the missing persons
report.
Lane said Authorities findLane's car abandoned on October
18th.
It's a mystery that keepsdeepening.

(01:06:09):
Scuderi told KOAT what we hadlearned later.
When they were towing her car,a few hunters flagged down the
people who were towing it andsaid they had actually talked to
her on Sunday about around 2 pm.
The report was she had a flattire and the back window of her
car was smashed out.
At that time she told them shehad messed up her car and she

(01:06:32):
was looking to get to the top ofthe mountains.
Gidary said it's clear shedidn't make it up the road and
having seen pictures of it.
I would not have tried to go upit so it looks like she backed
down off of the road.
Skidary said she had such azest on life.
Lane said I never knew a heartcould hurt so badly.

(01:06:52):
Ingrid's mother, rebecca Lane,told KOAT they are leaning on
the strength of prayers to getthem through Lane's sudden
disappearance.
She expressed vivid memoriesshared during family outings and
Lane's birthday prior to herreported missing.
Lane described her daughter asoutgoing, strong, loving and
caring.
I'm putting one foot in frontof the other and breathing.

(01:07:15):
I can't not have some hope, butI am realistic.
We did a bunch of stuff.
We were an outdoor family.
We skied, hiked and kayaked.
She loved kayaking.
She always stood up for theunderdog.
She also advocated for theLGBTQ plus community.
She wanted to get more peopleinto the STEM pipeline.

(01:07:37):
Lane told KOAT my last text toher was I love you, and I see it
was delivered.
Lane told KOAT she had somehealth struggles.
She struggled because of herlungs.
Lane's mother told KOAT I'vesaid please take time to just
rest and catch up.
She had to struggle so hard atbirth.

(01:07:57):
I don't know if she ever got achance to learn how to read her
body as well as she should andfind the rest that's needed and
take time.
The New Mexico State Police werefirst notified mid-afternoon on
Thursday of 10-19-20-23 bySandoval County that Ingrid
Layden's vehicle had beenlocated on Forest Road 144, 11

(01:08:19):
miles north of New Mexico, 126west of La Cueva.
An SAR search and rescueinvestigation was started and
initial inquiries regarding thecircumstances suggested that it
had likely been there sinceSunday of the 15th.
Despite the significant elapsedtime, new Mexico search and

(01:08:39):
rescue canine teams wererequested for Friday on the 20th
to conduct a search of thevehicle and attempt to determine
the direction of travel fromthe vehicle.
An incident command post wasestablished near the vehicle
location and two canine teamsand one ground team searched the
area within approximately ahalf mile around the vehicle
location and two canine teamsand one ground team searched the
area within approximately ahalf mile around the vehicle.

(01:09:02):
Tracking indicated the subjecthad probably spent time in the
area south and east of thevehicle, but no direction of
travel out of the area wasdetected.
The search was suspended Fridaynight pending further
investigation.
Suspended Friday night pendingfurther investigation.

(01:09:23):
On Saturday night of the 21st,two hunters saw the vehicle
being recovered by SandovalCounty and stated that they had
assisted Ingrid the previousweekend at the vehicle location.
They reported she had declineda ride out of the area and
indicated she planned to hikefurther up freeway 144 to see if
she could get a ride further upthe road.
That was the last confirmedsighting.
Based on that information, abroader search was initiated on

(01:09:46):
sunday of the 22nd.
10 teams comprising of canine,ground and drones and
approximately 35 search andrescue personnel focused on
Freeway 144 North.
Further dog interest was notedin the area, but no clues and no
direction of travel wasdefinitively established within

(01:10:07):
two miles of the vehicle and thesearch was suspended again on
Sunday night.
Missing persons flyers weredistributed in La Cueva to
attempt to generate morespecific, actionable information
.
According to Pete Dixon, MSPfield coordinator.
According to Sandoval Sheriff'sOffice, they don't suspect foul

(01:10:28):
play.
Search dogs and drones havebeen used to locate Lane, but to
no avail.
As of Thursday November 6th,the Sheriff's Office, state
police and New Mexico Search andRescue are collaborated in the
search for Lane.
Authorities encourage anyonewith information on Lane's
disappearance to come forward.
Okay, and I did give thatinformation earlier, but if

(01:10:54):
anyone has any information aboutthe whereabouts of Ingrid, they
are encouraged to contact theAlbuquerque Police Department at
505-424-2677.
And I did have some information.
Another information, briefly,from another story.

(01:11:15):
It's a audio story so I wasn'table to listen to it, but
there's a brief synopsis.
Update from May 27th of thisyear, said seven months after
Ingrid Lane's disappearance on ahike near Jemez Springs.

(01:11:35):
Her aunt, carol Jo Eng, and hermother, rebecca Lane, continue
to search in the Valle Grande.
Rebecca Lane believes herdaughter became lost and died.
She had had COVID, she hadimpaired lungs.
Her car was left at 1,900 feetelevation.

(01:11:57):
I think that she just got lostsomewhere and she's somewhere in
the wilderness and has passedaway.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Yeah, so that sounds like it is likely what occurred
so that's really horrific.
It is, but hopefully someinformation can be found on what
happened and, yeah uh, thewhereabouts of her, or likely
her, remains so that her familycan have some peace yeah so if

(01:12:27):
you have any informationregarding those whereabouts or
if you are in that area andhappen to find human remains
while it sounds really morbid,but yeah, contact the
Albuquerque Police Department.
Yeah, so Okay, I wonder.

(01:12:50):
Yeah, it seems like she was notwell, because I wonder why she
decided to decline the ride andsaid she was going to hike
further up to see if she couldget a ride up the road, like why
not take the ride?
Yeah, that you were beingoffered right then, yeah, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Maybe she didn't feel comfortable with the, that's
true person that's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
That's true usually.
That's true.
I often don't like to takerides from men.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Yeah so.
Even once I know yeah, thankyou for that.
Yeah, that was sad.
It is sad.
Do we have any gossipy stuff,any books we're reading,
watching, listening to?

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Before that, I wanted to briefly mention just rest in
peace about Sonia Massey.
I'm sure everybody's heardabout her and what happened to
her, which is awful and horrificand it's very frustrating.
It seems very frustrating whenit feels like it's been so long
that people are calling foraction and change and it feels
like substantive change.

(01:14:03):
Changes have not been made,especially with this officer,
like having had so many issuesin the past and having moved
from so many differentdepartments in the past and this
has happened a lot.
Yeah, and it's happened withpeople who have killed people

(01:14:23):
and gotten, you know, not beencharged and then they were able
to move departments again andfind work and the only slight
encouragement, you know, is thatthis officer was immediately
arrested and charged, you knowis that this officer was
immediately arrested and charged, but like that's only one piece
of it, like like this needs tonot happen at all, you know,

(01:14:46):
yeah, and measures to preventthis from happening, from
preventing like officers withthese types of disciplinary
issues from continuing to serveon the force for one, that would
be a big fucking start.
I think that's just the tip ofthe iceberg.
You know I've voiced my opinionon that in the past but yeah,

(01:15:15):
it's just really horrific andlike just completely unnecessary
and awful way to die, and youknow the thoughts are.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
Do I have any thoughts?
Yeah, no, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, but.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
I don't have anything profound to say.
Yeah, I wonder what the hiringpractices are in that state.
Yeah, because in some statesyou can't tell the next employer
anything negative about thatperson, unless they specifically
ask something.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
Yeah, a different kind of standard when there's,
like you know, you would thinkyeah no, I would agree with you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
You would think it's just a thought.
I'm not.
I I don't know if the police orthe the fire department would
be under that stuff, or if theyjust look the other way.
It just reminded me of yeah ofno, I don't know that isn't
interesting.
That is an interesting uhbecause if that question,
because if that's the case, thenthere definitely needs to be
reform in that area as well.
There should always be reform.

(01:16:21):
I mean, I understand wanting toprotect workers and the fact
that workers get unfairly firedall of the time for dumb shit.
You know, like you're notsupposed to fire somebody for
being gay, you're not supposedto fire somebody for being a
woman, whatever, but thatdoesn't mean that you aren't
being fired for those reasons.
They're just finding a differentone so I understand that those,

(01:16:43):
exactly those type of laws arethere to protect those people.
But they fortunately don't.
But in some cases they don'tyeah when it, when it becomes a
real issue, it is not yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
And I do want to you know acknowledge that again.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
Like I said, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Okay, so on a lighter note,yeah, have you been reading
watching?
I mean, I know you read Piglet.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Yes, I read piglet and the author let me find the
author's name, because I I dohighly recommend it.
Uh, if you are like me andlottie hazel uh, it's like hazel
, but with two l's.
If you are like me and haveI've been enjoying some stories

(01:17:36):
about, like I said, women losingtheir shit in a wonderful way,
then then you might enjoy this,but with a, with a caveat
trigger warning for eatingdisorder yeah, so have you
watched anything?
um, yeah, just uh.
Deep space nine.

(01:17:57):
I have been meaning to watchalien covenant that's on hulu,
but I haven't.
If I watch a movie, I need toit has to be during the daytime,
because otherwise I'm justgonna fall asleep right, yeah,
and that's what I've been doing.
I've been been not watchingdeep space nine yeah, you've
been falling asleep to DeepSpace.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
Nine I've been watching the opening of Deep
Space Nine and then fallingasleep.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
One of these days, if I have any spare time, which,
yeah, I'm now homeschooling oneof my children, my son.
One of my children, my son,yeah, so I I just the school he
was going to I through 8 andhave not been a fan of
homeschooling and have generallyfelt like it's not right for

(01:19:09):
most.
Of course, my parentshomeschooled me from like a
religious perspective, thingslike that, but in the
circumstance of of my son, whenpublic school is not not willing
or able to make adequateaccommodations for him and when

(01:19:35):
he's not benefiting from thesocialization aspect, let's just
, you know, I don't want to gointo details, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
He just he isn't benefiting from what the people
think that he should be.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Exactly.
And he needs differentaccommodations and they aren't
willing to entertain that ideaExactly, aren't willing to
entertain that idea Exactly, andso, yeah, so we've been doing
that for one week and it is hardand stressful, and being, yeah,

(01:20:10):
my son's teacher is, yeah, it'sdefinitely challenging, but I
feel it's the best move.
Yeah, I feel good knowing thathe's safe, other children are
safe and, yeah, that, yeah, andmaybe in the future that he

(01:20:38):
might be ready again to go topublic school.
So I hope so.
Yeah, like I hope this is notindefinite, right, like, because
I'm very tired.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
Yeah, yeah, well, it's work.
Teaching is work.
People don't realize howexhausting teaching actually is.
Yeah, yeah realize howexhausting teaching actually is.
Yeah, yeah, even even when thestudent is, you know everything
you could ask for in a student.
Uh, it just it's exhausting.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
This is why he this is what he needs, that he needs
one-on-one yeah, absolutely oneof the things that they would
not give him.
Yeah, and so, like it's one ofit's something that they say
that they give, but in two yearsI've been trying to get it and
they won't give it to him, right?
So yeah, frustrating it's yeah,just putting other kids at risk

(01:21:32):
and putting him at risk.
Yeah, because they don't youknow they're, they don't want to
accommodate him and they don'twant to understand.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
Yeah they can't see the force they don't want to
understand his, him beingdysregulated when they can't
accommodate his needs.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, that's what's going on with me.
Yeah, and yeah, and yeah, Iread that one book.
I started another book, like Isaid, it's just like a novella.
It's called Cold Water Veins byAmy Lukaviks.

(01:22:16):
Ooh, water Veins by AmyLukaviks, and it's kind of like
a.
These two sisters have beenthis kind of isolated farming
community and their mothersupposedly killed herself, and
them and their father left thecommunity.

(01:22:37):
Only when they're adults theyfind out that their mother had
killed herself, and and theythem and their father left the
community.
Only when they're adults theyfind out that their mother had
killed herself, but now she isreally dead, and so they had
missed out on knowing her thiswhole time, and so now they've
inherited this farm and they'vegone back, and I think weird
things are about to be afootnice, nice, let's see.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
I haven't read anything.
Surprise, surprise to no one.
I just I haven't been in aheadspace so I've been watching.
I haven't really been watchingany TV but I keep going down the
YouTube.
Well, booktube rabbit hole,let's see.
So, yeah, booktubeube mainly,and haven't really listened to

(01:23:21):
anything, I guess since the lasttime I did watch.
Megan kelly has a show.
I don't usually watch her, butshe had.
She has a series, I think, onlike fraud, crimes or something,
and she had one on the othercrime I want to do, ed shin.
So so I watched that one,watched slash, listened to
because it's also a podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
I listened to a book podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
Ooh, a book podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
Yeah, it's the podcast of the guy.
Is his name David or Daniel?
He's the male podcaster fromMaintenance Phase and he's got a
.
It's called like Books on Raw.
I want to say, hmm, interesting.
I listened to his podcast onHillbilly Elegy.

(01:24:10):
That's what I was talking toyou about.
Oh yeah, because they had doneit like some years ago and then
they like, updated someinformation and re-released it.
Yeah, because of the VPnomination yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
Anything else?
I don't think, so that is notan endorsement, by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
If anybody listens to this and thinks that's an
endorsement, they haven't beenlistening.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
If anybody listens to this and thinks that's an
endorsement.
They haven't been listening.
It is an endorsement of thatpodcast, but it's not an
endorsement of Hillbilly Elegyor of JD Vance.
Right, right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
No, and let's see.
Okay, so nothing.
Our next book is Little CrazyChildren by James Renner.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
That will be sometime in september, I believe.
I will have the exact date onthe um, or at least the episode
is episode 24 and I'll have thatup in the show notes and we
will also post it on instagramif you would be so kind as to
like, subscribe, download allthat fun stuff, send me an email
.
Send an email.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Be our internet friends God.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
Right, give me your tots.
And yeah, I guess that's it.
We are off to see Twister.
Yeah, twisters, twisters.
We're off to see Glenn Powell,who is well, I can't decide if
he's attractive or punchable.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
I think he looks pretty punchable, but his dog is
cute.
I might steal his dog.
His dog is absolutely adorable,brisket.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
I'm going to cut that part out.
Anyway, I'm not really going tosteal his dog.
No, I don't mean that part.
I meant me calling himattractive or punchable.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
You don't have to cut that out.
He's like an act.
It's okay, like I know.
I know really graphic or likeno I.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
I will never shy away from anything graphic.
You know that well, sure I mean, come on, we just talked about
speculums, we're not reallygonna punch him.
Okay, I don't think that either.
It's just embarrassing to me.
I'm turning red again.
Um, okay, so little crazychildren like subscribe.
Review down is yourgynecologist.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
I'm sorry, it's okay, I couldn't resist.

Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
He would.
Maybe he'd play a gynecologist.
I haven't seen his backlog.
Maybe he has.
Okay, so like subscribe.
Like subscribe, follow,download, write emails.
Uh, you know, we, we have ourpersonal emails and our our
podcast, not emails.
Personal instagrams uh, podcaststuff all in the show notes

(01:27:10):
hashtag glenn powell is mygynecologist jesus christ okay,
and we are off and we will talkto you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Bye.

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