The Baker Butcher Part 1

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Kiki and I'm Rachel, and this is.
Details Are Sketchy, a truecrime podcast, and I'm not even
going to pretend to know whatepisode this is.
So, yeah, you sound unhappy,katie.
Sorry, I will become happier.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
No, it's fine.
You don't have to.
I'm just acknowledging thefeelings in the room.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes, no, I am frustrated, very, very
frustrated.
Yes, I know I am frustrated,very, very frustrated.
It irritates me when people youlove do things that are bad for
them.
Yeah, I hear you that I well.

(00:47):
No, I don't know.
So I'm gonna say I think thebook is two episodes from this
one, so it's two episodes, it'snot one episode.
No, oh my god, yeah, I think.
Don't, I don't know, don't takeit to the bank, but I will not
take it to the bank?
I'm pretty sure we don't.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm just like dancing around, like when I'm I know
you said dancing around and nowthe phrase dancing around is in
my head.
Sorry, Because I started thebook and I'm like 75% through
and I'm like, should I finish it?

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Should I hold off?
I know, yeah, that's because Isaid last time it would be like
this week, but last week was theone right after we did Helter
Skelter.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
So, and we're confused, because this episode
should have come out onWednesday, right, and so we're.
But, life has been kicking ourass.
Life has been kicking our ass,so I'm sure our listeners
understand.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm sure they do.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
It would be better for our numbers if we actually
came.
Obviously, this is not ourfull-time job?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
No, no, it's not.
It would be better for ourlistenership if we acted like it
was our full-time job.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, but unfortunately we don't have the
energy of two or three people no, and and I already work three
jobs, so a piece that is yeah,just to clarify yeah okay.
So yeah, we don't know whatepisode this is.
I'm pretty sure two episodesfrom now, three episodes, two
episodes from now will be ourbook, which Rachel will tell you

(02:11):
about at the end.
Yeah, something about dinosaurs.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
The Dinosaur Artist.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
See, I'm going to do the case even though I did the
last one and this one's going tobe a two-parter, so
unfortunately y'all are going tohave to listen to my voice for
three episodes in a row.
Great, and then.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Rachel's like yes, Better yours than mine.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
And then Rachel will do hers after that.
Yep Okay, yep, okay, okay.
So, you go ahead with yourmissing person.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Okay, so my missing person's name is Luis Antonio
Rivera and he is missing fromSurprise, arizona.
That's quite a name.
Yeah, his nationality isAmerican.
I don't know why they botheredto put that, because I don't
think it's super relevant.
The case was entered on July 20, 2023.

(03:16):
Current classification unknownmissing.
This record was last updated inSeptember and his gender is male
.
His age when he went missingwas 35.
His race is Hispanic or Latino.

(03:36):
His weight was around 230pounds and his height was 5'7".
His eyes were brown and hishair was brown.
Height was 5'7", his eyes werebrown and his hair was brown,
and there's a note, however,that says that some sources say
that his hair is black, whileother sources say that his hair

(03:59):
was brown.
I'm looking at a picture of hishair and it looks like it's
very dark brown.
Okay, so Okay, and there's.
I have a bit more informationabout his missing person status
that I guess we'll get intolater.
I'll just say so he was lastseen on June 4th 2023.

(04:21):
So I will give you the detailsof that situation after our case
.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
So this is a two-parter on a serial killer.
Serial catcher, that's what Iwas going to say.
Serial killer the butcher baker.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
The vast majority of this I got from the Very Scary
People episodes.
I got from the Very ScaryPeople episodes.
There is another one that I waswatching but it kept stopping
every five minutes so I gotannoyed and stopped watching it.
So on September, in September1982, along the Knick River,

(04:58):
which is about 25 milesnortheast of Anchorage, alaska,
you know what this whole thingreminded me of.
So I lived in Alaska.
Yeah, in the 90s I remembernothing of this, like all of
these things, I was like Ididn't even know there was a
river outside of Anchorage,alaska, right, and I lived right
outside Anchorage.

(05:19):
I mean, it's wild, it wouldn'tsurprise me because it's wild
out there, like even in town,like we lived in eagle river,
which is a town.
It's a town with shops andeverything and lots of people.
It's more like a suburb and youknow, I mean moose would be
walking around, like you'd wakeup in the morning and a moose

(05:41):
would be sticking its noseagainst your window, right, you
know, and there's like baldeagles just flying around, yeah,
so I don't know why itsurprises me that there is a
river outside Anchorage, alaska,but it did Okay anyway.
So Officer John Daly of theAnchorage Police Department had
just gotten a small boat and hethought it would be a good idea

(06:04):
to go down the Kinnick River todo a quick hunting trip with his
friend.
And when they went the wind wasgetting really bad on the river
, so they decided to hop off ata nice place if they found one,
and they did.
They saw a group of trees andfelt they could get out there

(06:25):
and camp there for the night.
So they had gone through thetrees and were looking for a
place to set up, and they sawwhat Officer Daly described as a
moon boot, which obviouslydidn't belong there.
When they looked closer, theysaw a patch of denim which was
torn enough that they could seethat it the denim was covering a

(06:48):
kneecap.
They knew, of course, that theyhad a body and he had a sense
that it was a homicide.
So he said something like weknew it couldn't have just been
a hiker, but they didn't explainwhy they thought it couldn't
have just been a hiker, right?
So, uh, anyway, he believedthat it was a homicide.

(07:11):
So he and his friend left thearea to alert the troopers the
next day.
They worked their way aroundthe body, the troopers and
everyone.
When they got to the head.
They saw there was an acebandage wrapped around it.
You should stick a pin in thatshe had been shot in the chest.

(07:32):
I don't know how they knew that, because it was skeletal.
Remains, right, is it?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
maybe like.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
But I don't know, maybe.
Maybe they said they found a.223 shell in the dirt, so maybe
it was like through her chestor something I'm not really sure
that's wild to think about.
Yeah, or it also could havebeen like they discovered that
later, that she got shot in thechest yeah, and they just added

(08:01):
it Retroactively.
Yeah, Okay.
So these caliber bullets aredesigned to kill, Like these are
hunting bullets.
They're used I just got aheadof myself, they're used in
high-power hunting rifles thatare used to kill game.
So they know that the killer isprobably a hunter.

(08:22):
Yeah, which also?
I mean it's Alaska, that's nota hard guess.
The victim is identified as a23-year-old, Sherry Morrow.
She had been missing for about10 months.
She had been working as adancer in Anchorage.
The morning she left she hadleft a note to her friend, Lisa,

(08:44):
that said she was going to aphoto shoot.
Specifically, she was going toa place called Alice's 210, I
guess is what the name of it is,I don't know, I can't read my
own notes which is in downtownAnchorage and she would be
making $300, and that was thelast her friend heard of her.

(09:05):
Sherry's boyfriend was the onewho actually reported her
missing.
One of the things he pointedout was that she had an
arrowhead necklace that shealways wore and that necklace
was found with her body.
Sherry wasn't the only dancerthat had vanished.
All the dancers that hadvanished and we'll get to the

(09:26):
number later were in their early20s and they had disappeared
after an afternoon date, usuallysaying it was a photo shoot or
something.
Anchorage was a bit like theWild West at the time, so oil
had just been discovered up onthe North Slope and they had
built a pipeline, which had beenstarted up fairly quickly.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Whenever I think of oil being discovered, I think of
like the Beverly HillbilliesRight.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah.
So Anchorage was pretty smallat the time, but the population
nearly doubled between 1973 and1983.
And Anchorage, because of thatpipeline and all the dudes that
came with it, there were, youknow, of course, lots of money,
lots of drugs and lots ofillegal activity.

(10:12):
Right Most visitors would windup on 4th Avenue, which Bob Hope
, the comedian, once describedas the longest bar in the world.
The area became known as theTenderloin District because all
of a sudden there were a lot ofstrip clubs and a lot of sex
workers on the streets.
In other words, the population,at least the population that

(10:37):
we're talking about weretransient.
So when a woman was reportedmissing, it was assumed that she
had simply moved on.
In 1983, for a few yearsalready, there had been reports
made to Anchorage police ofdancers and sex workers suddenly
going missing.
People close to them would saythat the missing woman told them
that a guy had offered her $200for a photoshoot and then she

(11:00):
just never came back.
Officer Daly, who had beenworking foot patrol, said there
had been rumors going aroundthat something nefarious was
going on and the dancers and thesex workers were very nervous.
In April 1983, another womandisappeared.
Her name was Paula Golding.
She had worked as a secretarybut didn't like that job, so she

(11:22):
thought she'd try dancing andshe realized so I guess there
are different types of dancing.
We usually think of toplessbars.
Right, there are alsobottomless bars and yeah, yeah,
uh, for some reason, when anyanyone ever says bottomless, I

(11:43):
think of Winnie the Pooh.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
That seems so inconvenient.
I can't imagine trying to servewith part of your body exposed.
What if you get scalding hot,whatever.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
I don't know if it was the servers, though I think
it was just the dancers wouldtake everything off, or at least
that makes more sense.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
For some reason, I envision like all of the workers
are like yeah yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
I imagine like winnie the poohs or like donald duck
walking around with like shirtson top it is?

Speaker 2 (12:17):
it is like winnie the pooh, because for some reason,
like some of the animals onlywear pants and some of the
animals only wear shirts.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, so she realized that if she went bottomless
you'll make more money.
Yeah, I bet the night shedecided to go bottomless was the
night she met a guy who offeredher $200 for a photo shoot.
Paula showed up at theprearranged meeting place.
When she got into the car hethreatened her with a gun and

(12:47):
handcuffed her.
From there he took her toMerrill Field where he had an
airplane and apparently he wouldfly the women off to a remote
place.
So he put her in the plane andthey took off and when they they

(13:10):
landed there was a meat shackwhere he would take them.
So if you're not a hunter, inhunting, once you get the game,
you need to get it off theground and get it dry.
Yeah, so there's usually somesort of meat shack where you
there are like poles inside andyou tie the meat up to it and
you use it to preserve the meat.
He told paula that they wouldspend the day in the meat shack.

(13:33):
God, I hope there was no meathanging.
Can you imagine how even morehorrible that would be?

Speaker 2 (13:38):
yeah, this isn't that whole sentence.
Let's spend the day in the meatshack, doesn't that?
Ring bells raise red flags shewas already having red flags.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
She didn't want to be there.
She already realized from beinghandcuffed and smacked around
that nothing good was happening.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Now let's go to the meat shack.
Yeah, nothing will go wrong.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, God, it sounds like a horror movie it really
does it, really does it reallydoes.
So just as they were walking tothe shack, a plane came down the
river and made a pass, which Iguess means that he was probably
going to land, or it lookedlike he was going to land.
The man decided that heobviously can't let the pilot

(14:23):
see the woman there becauseshe's clearly not there.
Because she wants to be, yeah,uh.
So he quickly gets her into theshack, tied her hands around a
post, and then walked back outand the pilot apparently kind of
waggled its wings, which Iguess in airplane speak, speak
means something like how are youdoing?
Are you doing?
Are you doing okay?
Do you need help, whatever?

(14:44):
And so the man waved at him andthe plane flew off down the
river.
He went back to the shack andfreed Paula.
She started screaming you'regoing to kill me, aren't you?
And slapped at him and startedrunning.
He caught up to her and madeher stop and he told her it's
over, there's no real problem.
She just kept getting more andmore upset and she managed to

(15:06):
break away from him again andstarted to run and he shot her.
Yeah.
So then, on Sunday, june 13th1983, which was nine months
after Sherry's body was found,cindy Poulsen, who's 17 years
old, was working the streets atabout 11 30 pm.

(15:27):
So all of these women are likein their early 20s, but this I
mean this girl's.
She may be a sex worker, butshe's still a baby girl.
Yeah, a man drove up to her andoffered her 200.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Unfortunately, many sex workers are baby girls.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yes, so he offered her 200 and she agreed.
She got into the car andimmediately she's in handcuffs
with a gun to her head.
She didn't fight much becauseshe knew he would do something
if she did.
He then took her to his house,took her down to the basement
where he had a trophy room yeahthere are sheep and goat heads

(16:00):
mounted on the wall.
There are rabbits and birds alsomounted, which is just so
creepy Like.
I used to live in places wherethere was a lot of hunting and
people had those kinds oftrophies on the wall and it
doesn't matter how nice thosepeople are, it's fucking creepy,
yeah, to have heads of anythingon the wall.
Yeah, I know you all think it'scool, but most of us think it's

(16:22):
creepy.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
I think it's cool, but most of us think it's creepy
.
On the one hand, I canappreciate that taxidermy is a
challenging art, yes, but on theother hand, yeah it's creepy.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
There's also a difference between taxidermy and
heads on a wall.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
But you know what, weirdly, doesn't like skeletons,
don't creep me out.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, they don't creep me out either, but yeah,
like if it has eyes and it'slooking at me.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
No me out.
Yeah, they don't creep me outeither, but yeah, if it has eyes
and it's looking at me.
No, thank you.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Because I don't know when I think of taxidermy.
I mean, I realize the heads onthe wall are taxidermy too, but
usually when I think oftaxidermy it is in an art-like
fashion.
They're refashioning the animalto the way that it was in a
lifelike and it's reallybeautiful, but the trophies on
the wall say I killed this thing, yeah, and I'm proud of it.
That absolutely is what it'sabout, and that automatic.

(17:11):
How impressive I am, yeah andthat to me even at like, because
when I lived in a place wherethere was a lot of hunting and
people had things on the walls,I was like eight, nine, ten.
I didn't know what a serialkiller was, but I was.
You know, I afraid I was likethese people are creepy.
No offense to anybody who hasanimals on the wall, but that's
what most of us think.

(17:32):
I remember going to some houseit was like a friend of like my
sister and brother-in-law's,like they had some like animal
rug and my brother-in-law waslike that's an endangered animal
and I was like and you're proudof it yeah, I know I was like

(17:54):
that's why it's fuckingendangered yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
the, yeah, the rug, the animalrugs creep me out, the, the
trophies on the wall and thepictures where people pose with
their yeah, with their trophies.
It's like, especially becausemost of the time.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
It's because they like paid poor governments a lot
of money yeah, so they can killthat animal oh, I know I know
it's all set up like you didn'thave any hunting skill, you didn
didn't do anything special.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Like this was all set up for you to succeed.
Yeah, that's also crazy, Likehow can you be so proud of that?
So he Were you going to saysomething.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, although it's kind of an aside, I was just
talking to Jay the other dayabout how like rich you know
rich white men who runeverything- you know, I mean, we
know rich white men who runeverything and I was just
talking to to Jay about how thethey are the, the group that is
the least qualified to runanything, because they have

(18:54):
never had to work or struggle todo anything Like, they've never
had to achieve anything real orprove themselves.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
In any real way.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, or face any adversarial conditions or
survive in any kind of toughconditions or face any kind of
strife whatsoever.
Everything is just handed tothem, and so they're absolutely
the least qualified to makethese kinds of decisions that

(19:28):
involve all of these kinds ofsituations, because that's not a
situation that they have everhad to or will ever have to deal
with.
Yeah, anyway, of course we allknow that, but I was just
feeling frustrated about youknow who, a couple of particular

(19:49):
gentlemen in the Oval Office.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Gentlemen is a very nice word.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Gentlemen in air quotes.
Now all I can think about is Ijust didn't want to name the
names.
Yeah, I know, yeah, don't namethem, don't name them.
Yeah, they don't need any morepublicity exactly, but when you
said gentlemen, it made me thinkof.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Since I've been watching pride and prejudice, I
keep thinking of lizzie sayingum, if you had only behaved in a
more gentlemanlike manner,that's all that's yeah.
Immediately went through myhead.
I don't know why.
It's not that funny, butanytime I hear gentlemen, that's
what I that's the quote I thinkof.
If they had only behaved in amore gentleman-like manner.
See, mr Darcy is the rich whiteman I can get behind at the end

(20:32):
, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
At least Mr Darcy is a man who could admit that he
fucked up.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, that's why he's so hot.
I mean, besides the fact thatColin Firth, you know, got out
of the lake with a wonderfullywhite shirt on, that didn't hurt
, that didn't hurt at all, justfrosting on the already hotness
cake.
Okay, so this guy told Cindythat if she cooperated he

(21:04):
wouldn't hurt her.
He said that he wanted to havesex with her, but that he wanted
her chained.
So he handcuffed her to thebottom of a chair and had her
neck tied with a rope around itto the coffee table.
He told her there had beenseven others before her and they
all stayed.
A week.
He raped and assaulted herseveral times.

(21:25):
Then he either chained her upelsewhere or kept her chained
where she was.
I was confused on that.
And then he went to sleep.
About five hours later he wokeup and she told him she wanted
to go home because she livedwith her mom and her mom would
be worried.
He said that because he likedher so much, he would take her

(21:46):
to his cabin and quote make loveto her it's right, that's
creepy, even when a nice guysays it and then he would take
her home.
So she, she said she knew shewasn't ever gonna go home if
that happened.
So he handcuffed her again andput her in the car she's

(22:07):
barefoot at this point andcovered her with an army blanket
and drove to his plane.
Now, he was in the process ofgetting his plane ready, so she
knew she had to make her move,and so she managed to open the
back door and she ran.
He started chasing her with agun and, if you can imagine,

(22:29):
she's running barefoot andhandcuffed.
Yeah, uh, in this giantairfield and there's a man
running behind her with a gun,and then a truck pulls up.
She screams, the guy in thetruck stops and she gets in.
Uh, he wanted to take her tothe police.
She said no and instead saidshe wanted to be let out at a

(22:49):
motel.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Oh my, god girl, go to the fucking police, well just
wait.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
She wanted to get out to a motel close to where she'd
been staying, so the trucktruck driver lets her off and
then he calls the police.
Now I like this particularofficer that shows up and we'll
get to wine later but officergreg baker and his partner were
on patrol and so they went toher and they found the room she
was in.
She was still handcuffed andvery upset.

(23:17):
Oh uh, sorry, I made myself anote and then I'm like what is
this note?
Um, it said, I just want tonote that the men in the episode
kept referring to her and othervictims, who are all female, as
being hysterical oh my god,which I find super annoying
because you can bet the farmthey wouldn't call a man
hysterical even if he was actingthe exact same way.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
The word hysterical from her exactly vocabulary.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
These women have been handcuffed, raped, beaten,
thought they're gonna die.
How did I mean?
Yeah, who wouldn't be upset?

Speaker 2 (23:54):
of course you'd be a fucking psycho if you weren't
upset, yeah, then they would belike what's wrong with her?
Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
So dudes quit saying hysterical.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
It's really irritating, it is and has a
history of women's oppressionyes, yes, very much so anyway.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
So the cops let her out of the cuffs and she told
them what had happened.
She gave them a very gooddescription of the man.
He had darkish brown hair, hewas short, he had warts on his
face, buck teeth, green or blueeyes and he wore glasses.
She said he weighed about 170pounds.
He also stuttered.

(24:37):
So they played his interviewtapes in the episodes and I
didn't hear any stuttering I'mnot saying she lied, because
lots of people said he stuttered.
I just, I'm just noting that Ididn't do you speak kind of
slowly maybe at speech therapyno not really.
He sounded normal to me.

(24:58):
I mean he would like he wouldkind of repeat things yeah, um
pause.
But the pause didn't seem likeanything out of the ordinary.
It would be a pause after, liketrying to think something.
It didn't sound like.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Sometimes I might like, because I have a lisp
where I will pronounce like R'sas W's sometimes, and I mostly
have grown out of it.
But sometimes I will come to anR where I know I'm going to
struggle and then I will pauseso I can make my tongue do the

(25:35):
right thing.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Well, it wasn't that kind of pausing.
It's like pausing to like I'mgoing to think about the next
sentence.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
I'm going to say so.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
it wasn't like in the middle of a sentence or in the
middle of the word that's when Irarely do yeah, but I mean,
it's also entirely possible theyedited it or they only put in
stuff where he didn't stutter,so.
So cindy, though, is, forobvious reasons, a very
reluctant victim, and one of thereasons being that she was

(26:06):
afraid he would find her andkill her which I mean fair and
another being that sex workerstend to not want to get involved
with the police, understandably, since their work is illegal
and they are often not believed.
When they do go to the police,or if they are believed, nothing
usually happens.
Officer baker, though, didbelieve her yeah and he and his

(26:29):
partner take her to the hospitalto do a rape kit.
On the way, officer baker takesher to the airfield.
I don't know if it's on the wayor if it's after the fact, but
at some point they take her tothe airfield to see if she can
identify her attacker's plane.
So the plane was there and shewas able to identify it.
So the officers stop, get outof the car, check the tail

(26:52):
numbers and check who owns theplane.
And while they're standingthere a security guard comes up
to them and says hey guys, Ihave this dude's license plate
number, you want it?
And they're like yeah, so theymatched the two things and they
have a name and an address.
So they go to the address and Iguess Cindy's still in the car

(27:13):
with them and she positivelyidentifies the house.
The man was Robert Bob Hanson.
He was married and had kids andhe had, as a lot of serial
killers do, a great reputationas an upstanding, successful
business owner.
He owned a bakery, hence BakerButcher Right.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Or the Butcher.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Baker, or whatever his name is.
Customers said he was verypleasant.
He came off as humble, meek,quiet.
It's always the humble, meek,quiet guys.
Humble, meek, quiet it's alwaysthe humble, meek, quiet guys.
His neighbor did say that hewas strange, but was quote
harmless strange.
Robert grew up in Pocahontas,iowa, which is a small farming

(27:56):
community.
His dad was a baker, so that'swhere he learned the trade.
His father, though, wasdescribed as a hardworking
authoritarian who worked Robertvery hard and wasn't given a
whole lot for it.
His father was demeaning andwould make fun of him.
Nothing he did was ever goodenough.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Whenever I hear authoritarian in conjunction
with parenting you know, it'snot good.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
No, he also had, as said said before, a very
noticeable stutter and he alsohad bad acne which left him with
a pockmarked face.
So he was greatly bullied,particularly by girls in his
high school.
So he hated school for variousreasons, not just because he was

(28:42):
bullied and made fun of.
He hated it so much that whenhe was in his 20s he, with a few
others, burned down the busbarn, which I guess is where
they keep the buses Now.
Robert was also in the firedepartment at that time and
after lighting the fire he thenwent to the fire department and

(29:03):
he went on the call with thefire department to the fire he
just set.
He was eventually caught forthe fire some months later when
one of the guys that helped himset the fire confessed.
Robert ultimately pled guiltyand was sentenced to three years
but served less than 19 months.

(29:24):
Robert's father is so ashamed ofwhat his son did that he left
town.
He sold his bakery and wound upbuying a resort in Minnesota.
Robert joined his parents inMinnesota and while he was there
he met a woman named Darla whohe married.
At some point he and Darladecided to move to Alaska.
Now, for those of you thatdon't know.

(29:46):
Alaska is the kind of placewhere a huge chunk of the
population go or have gonebecause they have a past they
don't want to remember, yeahRight, or that they are trying
to escape from.
So he immediately got a job asa cake decorator and Darla got a

(30:09):
job as a teacher.
So Alaska is also where Robertbecame a hunter and he was
apparently very, very good at it, especially with the bow and
arrow, which he preferredbecause you had to get really
close to the animals, so, likeyou had to have not just real
skill in the actual bow andarrow but in like stalking and

(30:32):
all of that stuff, right?
So his skill at game huntingtranslated very nicely into
stalking and hunting women.
Oh lovely, yeah, oh lovely.
In a post where they thought aneye bolt could have been which
would have been used to with thechain to tie her up or chain

(31:14):
her up, they see an ace bandageand some gloves in the car.
So if you remember, back to thebeginning, somebody had an ace
bandage, yep.
So they really believe that he'sthe guy.
But there's a problem.
Robert has two solid alibis.
He claims he was with a friendwho's also an insurance
executive, so yeah, almost allnight.

(31:34):
And he also went out withanother friend for beers and
pizza.
His friends backed him up, andthe story that he told his
friends in order to get them tocomply is that he was lonely, so
he had propositioned a womanand there had been, I guess, a
disagreement about price.

(31:55):
They weren't real clear aboutthat, and so he told his friends
that he didn't want his wife toknow that he had strayed and
that it wasn't like him.
It was just a moment ofweakness, so they complied.
Yeah, I see you rolling youreyes.
I did too.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
It's never like them.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
No, no, it's only once, I promise.
They tried to get Cindy back tothe police department to take a
lie detector test, but shenever showed up and after a
little bit of investigation itturns out she and her pimp had
moved to Portland.
When the detective contactedthe Portland PD, they were

(32:39):
informed that she had beenarrested a number of times under
various aliases forsolicitation, that she'd been
arrested a number of times undervarious aliases for
solicitation.
So the Anchorage PD basicallycloses the case, labeling it
exceptional clearance, which canmean a few different things,
but in this case it meant thatthe complainant has disappeared.
So, as it turns out, while theoriginal officer, officer baker,

(33:03):
believed cindy completely, thedetectives did not believe her
at all.
Oh my god, they thought she waskind of crazy.
Um, I mean, it had all thethings up against her right.
She's a sex worker, a veryyoung sex.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
What about that truck driver?
Wasn't he like a witness?

Speaker 1 (33:23):
I guess so, but I mean, I don't know.
I guess the detectives justfelt like, well, if she's gonna
run away, then it really wasn'tall that serious.
God you know.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
That's why killers get away with killing sex
workers and stuff.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
So Officer Baker was extremely frustrated by the fact
that nothing was being done andhe complained about the lack of
investigation to Ron Rice, whowas a criminal investigator at
the Anchorage PD.
At the Anchorage PD I couldn'ttell if he was the detective on
the case that wasn't doinganything or if he just happened

(34:08):
to be another investigator andofficer Baker was complaining to
him.
But anyway, rice told him totake whatever information he had
to the state troopers and totell the troopers that he was
the one that sent him.
And so Baker did just that.
At the time Baker takes thefiles over to the state troopers
.
They were in the middle ofinvestigating the disappearance
of some dancers.
By the time they get a hold ofCindy's case there were at least

(34:32):
nine dancers, as well asEklutna Annie, who was a Jane
Doe found in 1980 by the Eklutnapower line, which is close to
the Kinnick River.
So I don't know much at allabout Eklutna Annie.

(34:52):
I still don't know if she hasever been identified.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
No.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
And they don't really know.
I think if she was part of it,at least at this point.
But they were investigating heras a possibility.
Anyway, several weeks afterOfficer Baker gave Cindy's file
to the troopers, paula Golding'sbody was found.
So she's the second woman Imentioned earlier, the one that
the guy took to the meat shack.

(35:19):
Yeah, her body was in anadvanced state of decay and they
identified her through dentalrecords.
When they found her, her pantswere unzipped, her sweater and
bra were also ripped and therewas also a single shell casing
from a .223 rifle.

(35:40):
So, just like in the first case, so now the troopers have two
murdered women within a halfmile of each other on the Knick.
That's going to be SherryMorrow and Paula Golding.
They also have the .223 shellcasings found in both graves

(36:03):
shell casings found in bothgraves.
And they also have CindyPaulson's files where she said
that the guy was going to flyher to his cabin in a plane.
So they know these murders arelinked and they begin to think
they might have a serial killeron
their hands.
So they bring in Sergeant GlennFulthe to take the case.
So he, I guess, was prettyfamous at the time, at least

(36:24):
within the trooper departmentbecause he had broken open a
bunch of cases up in Fairbanks,nice.
So he knows he needs to findCindy Poulsen.
When he starts to look for herhe discovers that she's back in
Anchorage working in a massageparlor.
So he goes out to find her andhe interviews her and she tells

(36:48):
him everything she remembers,including the color of his socks
, which just floors me.
I don't even know what color mysocks are, let alone somebody
else's Right.
He has her look at sixphotographs and one of them
includes Robert Hansen and sheidentifies
Robert Hansen.
But again there's a problem.

(37:09):
He's got those two strongalibis.
So Frothy knows that he needsto either break the alibi
witnesses or he needs to findother evidence to call the
alibis into question.
So he looks for any criminalrecords on Robert Hansen.
But he couldn't find anything.
And they did have criminalrecords of Robert Hansen in

(37:33):
Alaska.
The problem was that they wereoff being digitized and this is
the early 1980s, so they're notonline and they're not yet in a
computerized system that you canjust search.
Yeah, right.
So basically, if the filesaren't in the filing cabinet or
whatever, then they may as wellnot exist.
You're not going to find them,but fulte lucks out, because

(37:57):
there are some investigators whoremember pieces of Hansen's
past and I'm going to leave itthere and part two will happen
next time, okay.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
This is a very gripping tale.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Is it?
I hope so, I think so.
Yeah, I don't know Anythingelse you want to talk about.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
I don't know Anything else you want to talk about.
Yeah, I just think that thecapacity to not believe women is
very insane.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
It is, isn't it?
Yeah, and it's.
I mean, that was the 80s, sonot that surprising.
But they don't even do it now.
Yeah, Half the time.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
I once read an article about how pervasive
sexual assault is in Alaska.
So, yeah, I'm not surprisedthat this is like that.
Plus, yeah, you know, yeah, I'mnot surprised that it would be
under-investigated.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, I wouldn't either.
You know Alaska's aninteresting place.
Oh, there is a movie.
I've seen it before.
I don't really remember it, butthat doesn't mean anything.
I don't remember what I sawyesterday most of the time, but
it's got Nicolas Cage and JohnCusack about this case.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Not Con Air.
No, it's not Con Air.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
No, I forget the title of it.
Why can't, I think?
Let me look it up real quick.
But I remember liking it and Iremember being creeped out by
john cusack, which is a shame.
John cusack was a bad guy, yeahit wasn't Nicolas Cage.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
No.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Nicolas Cage was filthy.
John Cusack is the butcherbaker.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
What madness yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
And John Cusack did a great job.
I mean, he was creepy.
Well, now I have to see thiscreepy John Cusack, let me see
Frozen Ground, okay, yeah, oh,vanessa Hudgens and 50 Cent are
also part of it.
Nice, looks like it's onNetflix.

(40:09):
Okay, I have Netflix right now.
Okay, well, I suppose we talkedabout it while we were doing
the thing.
So do you have more?
Oh, did you have something else?

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Oh, yes, I do have more on my missing person.
Okay, so Luis Antonio Riverawas last seen by family or
friends on June 4th 2023.
So the information available isthat he was on the road outside
Trackside Sports Bar and Grillin Surprise Arizona on June 3rd
2023 in the early morning hoursand into the early morning hours

(40:44):
of the 4th, and he had last hadcontact with Surprise PD after
making a 911 call.
I mean that'll do it right, butwhen officers arrived and made
contact with him, he ultimatelydeclined assistance in getting
to a new location.
His vehicle was recovered froma person's property a couple of

(41:07):
miles away in Whitman, arizonaand they stated that Luis was
offered a place to stay thatnight and when they woke up he
was gone, but his car was stillthere.
They stated he gave thempermission to use the car.
That's suspicious, yeah, it is.
Another witness from the barstated that he was having car

(41:27):
troubles and when they offeredto help him fix it, he offered
the car to them.
Oh Well then I guess not somuch suspicious.
He has not been seen or heard ofsince.
I wonder if he was having somekind of emotional or mental,
yeah crisis there, because, like, why would you just like give

(41:48):
your car away?

Speaker 1 (41:49):
yeah, I don't know I felt like doing that with my
fiat a few times yeah sosometimes it ain't worth the the
effort

Speaker 2 (42:01):
let me see if there's any information.
So it says to be advised thatif you see him, don't make
contact, but call your localemergency number or the phone
number indicated for lawenforcement on this record and
they will instruct you for whatto do.
You can also let them know LuisAntonio Rivera's name and that

(42:24):
they are profiled on this site.
This way they can visit theprofile and get information
faster to follow up, and you canalways leave a tip on what you
saw by clicking the tip link onthe menu, for
missingpersoncentersorg is thewebsite on the top of this page
and let me see.

(42:45):
I'm looking to see if there's anumber to call here.
Here we go.
So you're encouraged to contactthe Goodyear Police Department,
goodyear Police Department, at623-882-7448 or 623-882-7422 and

(43:08):
ask for Detective Erickson.
The case number is 202327121and having that case number on
hand will help expedite theprocess.
Cool, okay, so I don't know whyI just said cool, but yeah, I
mean, we know what you mean, notcool.

(43:30):
But if you have any informationabout luis antonio rivera or if
you spot him, go ahead and givethose numbers a call.
Or if you don't have thosenumbers on hand, call 911 and
let them know, rather thanmaking contact with Louise.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, All right.
I think that's the first timeanybody's said that.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, that's interesting yeah.
And we'll put the website andthe phone numbers, yeah, in the
show notes will yeah, that isthe first time I've seen that,
but usually, like I oftenprofile like girls and women,
not yeah, grown men, so that'strue yeah, might be different.

(44:12):
You did a few men did.
They say that I don't know.
I wonder if there's, if he hasa record of like belligerent
behavior yeah, I don't know, Iknow, but regardless, we hope
that, uh, he's found, yeah, andthat there's some closure on
this case.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, for sure so did the case, did the missing
person?
Yeah, so what about reading,watching, listening to?
Yeah, well, I know you did.
Dungeon Crawler, carl.
I did do Dungeon Crawler, carl,y'all need to check that out,
even if you're not into thatkind of book.

(44:50):
I'm not usually into that kindof book, but it's quickly become
one of my favorite series.
It's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
It is a lot of fun.
I just have read the first oneyou've read.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
You are in the process of reading the third one
right so yeah, the first threeare out now and I think the
fourth one comes out this month.
Nice, yeah, and I think, likeone comes out every month
through and it's stayed goodright yeah, it's stayed
consistently good.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Nice.
Yeah, I'm just taking a breakbecause I read four books back
to back and now my brain is likeA little bit overload yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, but no, it's a lot of fun.
I mean, who doesn't love atalking cat?
Right Named Princess Donut.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Well, I go back and forth.
Sometimes I'm like that wouldbe so cool, and sometimes I'm
like, gosh, I'm glad that youdon't talk.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Right.
Yeah, I don't want to know whatAlia really thinks.
Alia is my cat, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, agnes would be spicy.
Yeah, she would be.
Dexter would be like.
I love you, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Dexter is a very chill boy.
He is a chill boy, veryun-Princess Donut-like.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I love that his catchphrase is
Damn it, donut Right.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yeah, when they came in for that part where he
learned that he had acatchphrase, I was also there
with him.
I was like what?

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Catchphrase yeah, me too, poor guy.
Yeah, he's her minionapparently.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I mean, we're all our cat's minions.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
That's true.
That's true, yeah, and I loveit.
So we're not giving anythingaway by saying there's a talking
cat, because it's on thesynopsis, but also on the cover.
I'm not giving this away either.
He's in his boxers and a jacket, and that's it.

(46:54):
He's barefoot after he throwsthe pink Crocs away.
He's barefoot after he throwsthe pink Crocs away and he has
to stay there.
So if you don't know, I'll givea brief synopsis.
So, basically, aliens have come, they've crushed everyone.
Anybody not inside a buildingor something with a roof
survives.
They have a choice they canstay out in the cold or they can

(47:17):
go down into the dungeon.
The dungeon is an rpg game andyou have to go down every level,
right, but you are kind ofstuck with what you wear until
you win things, uh, like pantsor something, and so this poor
guy didn't want to be outside.
He wasn't planning on, he wastrying to rescue his cat, but he
gets stuck having to, you know,fight all these awful things in

(47:40):
his boxers, um, and bare feetand it's hilarious yeah and I
want to give something away.
So bad, I mean, it's not thatbig of a deal.
But it's kind of a fun laugh tofind out.
It is a fun laugh to find out Ithink I know what you're
talking about.
Yeah and it was fun.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I was thinking about it too, and but yeah, I think
that that is fun for the readersto find out so, but yeah, you
should.
If you have never read lit rpg,yeah, but yeah it's, it's fun,
it's got its its own littlething, yeah yeah it it.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
People are liking it.
I mean like I've never beenstopped by a manager at a
bookstore before and likebasically had a book foisted
upon me.
So I mean I was already lookingfor it, but Jude was like take
them all.
So I bought the three.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Because I had heard about it from a booktuber.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
but I had this other, or I don't know if it was a
manager, but I had somebody atBarnes Noble really pushed me at
Camp Damascus by Jack Tingle,yeah, which did turn out to be
quite good, right, yeah, so, butI think that he saw my rainbow
strap.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I was just looking around.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Dude was like here you go, because I was looking
for it, but I mean, I don'tthink I look like the kind of
person who would read the litRPG, but the dude was like you
need to read this, Maybeeverybody, maybe Dungeon Crawler

(49:21):
Carl is going to be everyone'sgateway into lit rpg.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
It might be, I mean if they're, if they're, if the
rest are at all like it it'sreally good, and you know it.
I mean they're.
It's mostly fun, but it alsokind of says stuff too.
Yeah, it's definitely got.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah.
I think that this one has a lotof yeah, yeah themes that are
really relevant, yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, and the Very timely.
The audiobooks are so good.
Yeah, you like the audiobookstoo.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Yeah, it is, and my brother told me that there is
also a more immersive version ofthe audiobooks that have like a
full cast.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Oh really.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Oh, but you have to get that on the like the book
Website Website.
Oh, really, but you have to getthat on the book Website.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Website oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
But yeah, the guy.
He sounds like the actor whoplays Kronk in the Emperor's New
Groove.
He sounds just like that.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Yeah, you know, that reminds me.
I was kind of thinking that tooand I went to look up what the
narrator looks like.
Dude looks like a.
He looks like an absolute nerd.

(50:33):
Yeah, he's skinny.
He doesn't sound like his voiceat all.
Like I think if you saw thisperson in person and you started
talking to you, you'd becompletely confused yeah, yeah,
um, okay, yeah, that was a goodone.
Did you read anything else?
You said you're reading thebook we're both supposed to be

(50:55):
reading.
Did you read american rapture?
Not yet.
I started it.
I haven't finished it.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yet I read that one.
Um, that was really good.
I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Not quite as much as may fly right I mean that's
gonna be hard to top yeah but itwas really good.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
I think it spoke to I don't know some another thing
that I think that we can bothrelate to as well, which is like
religious indoctrination andlike maturing out of it.
Yeah, but in this case thecharacter has to mature out of
it very rapidly because of thecircumstances.

(51:31):
So there is one scene.
I'm not going to tell you whatit is, but it's quite traumatic.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
So Is it traumatic, as in it'll trigger your
religious trauma.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Or is it?

Speaker 1 (51:45):
traumatic as in it's gross and disgusting, like that
scene in Mayfly.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
It's upsetting, it's upsetting.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
So just keep that in mind, because when you get to it
you might want to skip it.
Okay, so Does it involve a deadanimal?
Just keep that in mind, becausewhen you get to it you might
want to skip it, okay.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
So Does it involve a dead animal?
It might.
Oh, no, okay.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah.
So yeah, there's that, butother than that I really enjoyed
it quite a bit.
Mm-hmm.
And what else have I read?
I'm reading Killers of aCertain Age.
I'm reading the Dinosaur Artist.
I've got a lot of books like inplay, right now.

(52:27):
I'm sleep reading my waythrough War and Peace yeah, that
was our book.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
We were supposed to read chapter a day for the year.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
I fell off of it for a while, or actually, yeah, that
was our book.
We were supposed to readchapter a day for the year, and
then I fell off of it for awhile or actually the book went
missing, but it was under my bed, so now I have it back.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
I was like how could such a large book go missing?
I know it's like a thousandpages, I know.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
I knew it had to be under the bed Right, like I was
just like I have to.
Yeah, that's also where theexorcist had been.
But yeah, I was like I justgotta go get it.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Yeah, so you're under the bed is where your black
hole is.
Mine is the closet.
Yep, okay.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Gotcha.
So now I've got that back, sokind of back on the War and
Peace wagon.
Yeah, so it's a snooze fest.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
It is a snooze fest.
That's why I was like we shoulddo it a chapter a day, which is
how I did it originally.
Yeah, Because then you're onlysnoozing a little bit, but now.
I have to catch up.
Yeah, I don't know, maybe theaudiobook would be better.
I haven't tried the audiobook.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
sometimes classics can be really snoozy, but if you
get a really good audiobooknarrator yeah it's less snoozy
yeah, but you were like this isthe the narrator of this or not
narrate the interpreter?
People are really good, right.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yeah, they're supposed to be the best
translators of that book so far.
Do they have an audiobook ofthat?
I?
Don't know, I haven't evenlooked for the regular audiobook
.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I don't know why I'm asking you, Like God, don't you
know the?

Speaker 1 (54:15):
answer no, I do not know the answer.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
I guess I should actually can find out yeah, I
just.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
It only just occurred to me to think about the
audiobook.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Yeah, yeah, so I've made some more progress.
So it is tempting to dnf it,but because I put it up on my
goodreads, yeah, you're beingshamed into reading it.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Yeah, I'm being shamed into continuing.
Well, you know it's an awesomebrag to have when you're done.
Yeah, at least among theliterary Right Maybe not the
average person, but it's true.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
So I don't know.
Yeah, I told my therapist, orwhatever, that I was reading.
She was like, oh well, you'resmart.
I don't know if it takes smarts, it takes endurance.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Yes, endurance, yeah, yeah, and the ability to just
yeah, yeah, not give up, don'tgive up.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Okay, I will not.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
I mean, I'm not saying it gets better.
Right, don't give up.
Okay, I will not.
I mean I'm not saying it getsbetter, I'm just saying Having
it done is a really good feelingof accomplishment because it is
a chonker.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Yep, yeah.
So according to Goodreads, I'mlike 11% through.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
I know it's also one of those books where the
percentage moves very slowlybecause it's so long You're like
I've been reading this forhours.
How am I only 2% in Right?

Speaker 2 (55:51):
So that's going on in my book situation situation and
in my tv situation.
Uh, jay and I have beenwatching the second season of
squid games where I thinkhalfway or almost halfway
through.
So I it's, it's good, um, butI'm kind of nervous because,

(56:13):
like I said, like I'm worriedthat the main character is going
to get killed this season, um,because he's he's pushing his
luck too far.
So I'm like you know, like it'sone of those things where, like
you got to keep going, but I'mlike now I'm attached to this

(56:33):
character.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
I don't want him to die now, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, and that.
What about about you?
What have I been reading?
Yeah, well, I've watching,taken a little bit of time off
because I had read the um two ofthe tuesday night murder club,
which I mentioned last time.
Um, I read the first two andpart of the third of the dungeon
crawler carl.
Um, I keep wanting to saydungeon carl crawler.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Yeah, I don't know why?

Speaker 1 (57:03):
so that's kind of it for reading.
I just like my brain is like nomore words right now, and for
watching pride and prejudiceover again yeah, I um so
listening wise.
Normally, when I need a breakfrom reading I I listen to
podcasts.
But I haven't been listening topodcasts either, like I'm just,
nothing appeals to me, so I'vebeen listening to, like 80s, 90s

(57:28):
, punk and as well as blues.
Yeah, so I've been moving backand forth between those two,
forth between those two, uh, andI have, instead of doing
anything, I should be doing likeI don't know, catching up on my
grading, for example.
Um, although I'm not behind,I'm only if I'm only this week

(57:50):
behind but, uh, I have beenwatching the 90s colin fir,
pride and Prejudice, just onrepeat, over and over and over
again, while I play mindlessgames on my phone that I don't
even particularly like.
I just can't stop.
I need to to break thataddiction somehow.

(58:15):
We all need to, I know.
I mean I just look at my, likemy hours and I'm like how did I
mean?
I started at like 11, 11.30yesterday and I went till 1.30,
and I have no idea where myhours went.
I mean, I know where they went,but it didn't feel like that's
where they went.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
I know.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
But it shouldn't happen every day, no, so yeah,
just re-watching that Pride andPrejudice, which I had taken a
break from for years, and now Ijust can't stop re-watching it.
I don't know.
I don't know um, I don't know.
I guess I'm I like mr darcy.
I used to never like him, um,but I I was never, pride and

(58:58):
prejudice was never.
I think I've said it beforeit's not my favorite of the
austin, um, even though thetrope is my favorite romance
trope.
But yeah, as I, as I get older,I like Mr Darcy a lot more.
Yeah, yeah.
Mr Darcy's a very sexy assholehe is, and not just because

(59:18):
Colin Firth in his wet shirt.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
No, it's not just Colin Firth.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
That's Mr Darcy.
Well, yeah, mr Darcy, and MrDarcy the character.
I mean he's kind of a dick atthe beginning, but the wonderful
thing is that he takes it uponhimself to fix himself and not
expect anything in return, notexpect like a huge round of
applause.
He just did it because he knewthat he needed to do it, and

(59:46):
that's hot dudes.
If you're listening it is,you're much more hot dudes if
you're listening it is.
You're much more likely to getlaid if you do that Than if you
are only doing it because youwant to get laid.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Yeah, rachel's like no, not really.
No, no, I agree, you agree, Iagree, yeah, no, I don't know
what.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
I'm just kind of like yeah, well, we did, just eat
quite a bit had some deliciouscupcakes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
No, I was just thinking about the likelihood of
how many men would take thatadvice, though yeah, zero.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
but I always say, I always say, you know, like men
are always like I don don'tunderstand women, and I'm always
like read Jane Austen, like allof Jane Austen, and you'll
figure it out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Right, like, even if the women haven't read Jane
Austen, we're all in there.
Yep, you will figure out allthe women in your life if you
just read some Jane Austen.
It's true, I mean it's true,it's not hard like and not just
the women, but just like, payattention to the men yep right
and you'll figure it out how shejust shows, yeah, how we

(01:01:00):
perceive men to be and how theycome off.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Yeah, you know, just yeah, all the different kinds of
men and all the different kindsof men and all the different
kinds of women and you know yeah, she's so good at just
capturing that people, yeah,those characters, yeah, yeah
yeah, and they're.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
I mean they and those may be fictional novels, but
they translate to real lifehuman interactions and they are
applicable now and they'reapplicable now.
That's why they're still someof the most popular books, and
those movies keep getting made,and made, and made.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Although women can get jobs and do things now.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Yeah, it's slightly different, but yeah, but the
essence of the characters is thesame.
Yes, yeah, no, I really dobelieve.
I think that's a hill.
I would die on that.
If men just read some Austin,yeah, I think life for everybody

(01:01:57):
would be a lot better.
Everybody read.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Jane Austen.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, but particularly relationships, I
think would be better.
Yeah, yeah, anything else.
I think we're both just kind ofcrapping out at this point.
Yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Yeah, I think that's it.
I was trying to think if I hadread any more books since we
last talked, but I think that isit.
Like I said, I have a bunch ofbooks in play, but I haven't
finished them out, really, um,let me look at my list.

(01:02:38):
Oh yeah, I finished emma.
We kind of talked about thatpersonally, but yeah, I haven't
finished it yet.
I mean, it's not like I've neverread it, but yeah and I read a
short story called dear laura byuh jemma amore, which is like

(01:03:02):
about a a lady who whose herlittle boyfriend is kidnapped
when they're both children,they're both around like 13 or
something, and she sees himkidnapped right in front of her
and then the kidnapper isbasically blackmailing her for
years and years and likebasically her whole life.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Blackmailing her why?
Because she doesn't go to thepolice, or something.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Blackmailing her why?
Because she doesn't go to thepolice or something.
Blackmailing her forinformation so that she for
inform because the the kid isnever found, his body is never
found, and so he's blackmailingher to her with for information
about, okay, what happened toher.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
So she'll, she'll pay , or whatever.
Then he will give herinformation where to find him.
Yeah, so she'll pay, orwhatever.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Then he will give her information where to find him.
Yeah, okay, gotcha, so she'lldo certain things give him
certain things.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
And her just her whole life is kind of captive.
Yeah, from this dude, yeah, soyeah it was.
It was a, a gripping shortstory, yeah, so I, I enjoyed it,
and quite creepy because it'slike like, what would you do in

(01:04:12):
that situation?

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
yeah, so did you know it was a short story and you
bought it, or is it like part ofa collection?

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
or no.
I knew I I got it on audibleand I it was like um, I think it
was like short story sale orsomething like that.
Okay, yeah, so, okay, yeah.
So I like when those happen,because I enjoy listening to
short stories, sometimes whenI'm like what am I going to
listen to next?

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
But like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
I don't want to pay like full book price for a short
story.
So sometimes they'll do like asale where it's like a couple
books I'm like okay, yeah, acouple hours a couple bucks,
right, yeah.

(01:04:57):
Sale where it's like a couplebooks and I'm like, okay, yeah,
a couple hours a couple bucks,right, yeah, no I hate that that
they charge you as much for atwo-hour story as they do for a
24-hour novel.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
That is ridiculous.
No sense they.
They do that in the in the hardcopies.
Yeah, yeah, I've seen thatthere's that french author that
I really want read, but I'm notpaying 20 bucks for a 12-page
story.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
That's fucking stupid .

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
You can't have all my money, you capitalist pigs?
Yeah, I mean you can and youwill, but I want to pretend I
have some control.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Yeah, we all do.
Yeah, we all do.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Yeah, that reminds me .
I don't remember exactly whatwas going on, because I was
living on two hours of sleep,but in one of my classes.
So I normally I've had to stopbecause I'm not supposed to be
political or anything, so Ican't just say because
capitalism, because that'susually what's, yeah, what is at

(01:05:53):
the core of a lot of this stuff, like slavery, for example,
right, or is at leastinterconnected with racism and
whatever.
Anyway, um, I've been trying tolike not say that and I've been
getting better about it, butlike, uh, I almost said it.
Uh, I forget what I waslecturing about, but the the one

(01:06:15):
of my students was like, um,jesus, fucking capitalism.
I was like thank you, yeah yousay it for me?
yes, thank you, yeah, yeah, Idid.
I was like I was gonna saysomething along those lines, but
I'm not supposed to bepolitical, so thank you for

(01:06:36):
making that connection for me,so I don't have to get in
trouble.
Yeah, I mean I don't think Iwould really get in trouble.
But students might complain.
Yeah, students, students mightcomplain.
I one student he didn'tcomplain to like a boss or
anything and he never complainedto me but on one of the

(01:06:57):
evaluations he said that, um, Iwas anti-conservative, and I
mean fair, but I never like,said anything, like there was
nothing.
I don't know, like I was justfollowing the way.
It was like my first semesterof teaching, so I wasn't giving

(01:07:18):
any opinions, I was justliterally following the textbook
, which was what my job wassupposed to be right.
Um, and I was like, well,technically, the book is
anti-conservative.
If you're gonna say that,sometimes facts are, yes,
sometimes a lot of times factstry and erase history yeah, I
know, and I I was trying to rackmy brain and think like in what

(01:07:42):
part of this isanti-conservative?
Like it's just it's the firsthalf of american history, like I
mean, obviously we're talkingabout slavery.
But I mean I don't know, Idon't necessarily know that
that's what they were referringto, but I don't know.
I thought that was funny Idon't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
I would say anti-capitalism is often
associated with liberalism, butthere are many liberals.
Like you know, the DemocraticParty is very much a capitalist
party.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Oh very much so, yeah , and you would think, like when
I have talked to conservativepeople like not so much the
Trumpians, but you know, likeunder bush or whatever, um, and
I would say things like whatabout this, this, this, this and
this?
And they're like, yeah, thatwould be awesome.
And I'm like cap, like that'syeah communism, socialism,

(01:08:40):
that's.
That's not capitalism.
That is, in fact, directlyagainst capitalism.
Like you are not a cap, youdon't like capitalism, you like
the other stuff.
You just fear the word.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Oh my god I was arguing with some friend of my
mom's or whatever on facebook,which don't argue with people on
facebook.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Be smarter than me yeah, it doesn't get you
anywhere, but frustrated I wasoffended because it was like a
friend of my mom's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
I was like I was like I like mom, why are you friends
with these people?
Yeah, and like she had postedsomething about a certain orange
dumpster fire, yeah, andsomebody was like that's not
true, even though it totally wastrue, yeah, and I was like mom,
why are you friends with thesepeople?
Right, and so they were likearguing with me or whatever, and

(01:09:27):
they were trying to.
They're trying to are you somesuper religious point?

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
And then I came back with them with a bunch of bible
verses.
I'm like, what about all thesebible verses?

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
yeah, that, oh, that is my favorite game to play with
religious ass right becausethey think that nobody is
familiar with the bible.
Half the time they aren'tfamiliar with the bible.
Half the time they aren'tfamiliar with the bible they're
familiar with like five verses.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
they don't know what's in their own.
Yeah, religious texts yeah, mydad used to read the bible back
to front, yeah, like over andover again.
Yeah, so, anyway, um, so I cameback with all these verses and
I was like these are directlyopposed to those policies, right
?
And then she was like looked onmy profile and she was like,

(01:10:14):
well, you're a socialist.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
And I was like, okay, that has nothing to do with
religion either and JesusAlthough now you can't even do
that, because now they're likeJesus is too woke.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Now they're like Jesus is toowoke, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Exactly.
But I was just like at thatpoint, I was just like okay,
well, argument over, becauseshe's got nothing, except for
I'm a socialist, like obviouslyI'm a socialist, yeah, yeah.
I'm like I have a profilethat's like a.
You see my profile it's like anartist rendering of like Bernie

(01:10:48):
, with a background of likeDemocratic Socialist of America
with like roses raining downyeah.
Like it's not a secret that I'ma socialist.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
No, yeah, oh, I know it's a trip.
Life has been a trip, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Yeah, so anyway, but yeah, don't be like me yeah, no,
it's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
It's tempting to get into arguments, but I've I've
had to learn to just like notand so I don't.
Even I don't go on facebookanymore, and instagram is, um,
I've become addicted to it, butI'm trying to retrain my
algorithm to be like whales andkitties and things again, and
not not the other stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
Unfortunately, like sometimes, our argument you're
winning arguments is dopaminegiving oh, yeah, very much so
that's hard.
Um yeah, I've tried to doanimal stuff too, but then I can
argue with some animal peopletoo yeah, I know you do, I just,
and I also just don't readcomments, I just look at the
pretty pictures.

(01:11:55):
Yeah, no, that's.
I should also not do that.
Yeah, yeah, because I I got inone yesterday where I was like
there was a post about catdeclawing, right, which is
horrible, yeah, and everybodywas like this is horrible, and
so it was like, well, what aboutdocking dogs?
And like, most people don'tagree with docking dogs, but

(01:12:15):
docking dogs is what I wassaying.
objectively, it's far lessharmful than declawing cats,
because you're removing the tipsof their fingers, the tips of
their toes that they walk on, sothen they have to walk on the
tips of those toes.
And it's like the LittleMermaid, where every step is
agony.
Yeah sure, docking dogs is bad,but let's not take the focus

(01:12:41):
away from declawing cats.
Especially since dog advocacygets so much more attention than
cat advocacy.
Yeah, which all has to do withthe patriarchy as well, right,
right, because cats areassociated with women, with
women, yeah, all of this stuff.
But studies show, you know,people take cats to the vet less

(01:13:02):
.
They have less empathy for cats.
Cats are more prone to abuseand neglect and also cats are
very stoic in their pain.
They don't overtly display signsof pain and a few dogs have
been declawed, but they stopthat rapidly because dogs would
scream.

(01:13:22):
They would just scream withevery step that they took.
And so people were like, well,this is awful, yeah, but cats
don't do that, right, they hidetheir pain, yeah.
And so it's just like can wenot talk about dog-dogging?
Because any time there's anyvideo or any, if you see a
picture of a dog-dog, people arelike dog-dogging is horrible,

(01:13:43):
and so that conversation iseverywhere, already Right, and
I'm horrible, and so thatconversation is everywhere,
already right, and I'm like canwe not?
yeah, and people were like well,it's just as bad, or?

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
like no, it's really not.
Yeah, it's horrible, butthey're a different.
And then they're like they'relike blah blah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
I'm like I'm not advocating for docking dogs,
right?
I'm just saying this isn't thetime to talk about it right,
this is a completely different.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
But anyway, people on the internet just I know I know
you're all.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Just don't look at the comments.
I know you're all people too,but it's like I don't know Like
we're having this conversationwhatever.
At least people try to be civil.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
But on the internet people don't try and be civil or
try to understand the otherperson's perspective person's
perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Yeah, that's why I avoid comments.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Yeah, I learned that on myspace.
Yeah, don't read stuff.
Don't go looking at yourfriend's top eight.
You are much wiser than I am.
I just I don't know.
I've got to a certain point inlife where I just want to keep
my peace.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
I just get frustrated and, like just some part of me,
just has trouble with the factthat people are not rational.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
I know, yeah, you want people to be rational.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
I know.
I know that they're not.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
I just want them to be.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
And I hope that they will be.
But also I can recognize thatrationality is a biased
perception as well.
And my conception ofrationality is not another
person's conception ofrationality.
Yeah, but still yeah.
That's something that's justdeeply entrenched in me and it's
really hard to let go of.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
No.
So yeah, I know that one of mycoworkers I guess we're not in
the same department, but heasked me if I saw the State of
the Union and I was like, no, Iwant to keep my peace.
I don't want anything thatangers.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
I didn't watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
I saw bullet points and I'm like, oh yeah that's
enough to like ruin my day.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
I don't know yeah, all this little information that
you get without even trying,that's already enough yes,
that's exactly it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
I I know so many people are like you don't watch
the news anymore and I'm like Iget enough of the information,
like I know that it's bad, yep,and getting immersed in it isn't
going to do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
No, it's not going to do anything except for make us
upset and depressed, make usupset and depressed and not
sleep, and not productive andnot productive.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
You got to pick and choose which you can fight, and
you know you can't fight all ofthe things you take it upon
yourself to fight the one or twothings you crippled by the
crushing weight of what's goingon in the world, then we're not
going to be effective advocates.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Yeah so, and everybody's got different limits
everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Yeah, and I.
I mean, I used to have a muchhigher tolerance because I was
in journalism and um, but yeah,as time goes on, I'm like I, I
can't.
That's not a sustainable way tolive.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
No me too.
I used to have a higher time.
I think many people have.
But it's just.
It just keeps going and itkeeps getting worse.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
Yeah, so I have developed a more like like I
need to just at least live somemoments of my life in peace,
exactly rationally.
I know that this world sucksright now and that our nation
sucks, and I get enoughinformation to know that I don't

(01:17:25):
want to be immersed anymore andthat I am just going to do what
I can, and also continue tolive and of course, we also
recognize that living moments ispieces of luxury.
It is a luxury, it's very mucha luxury.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
But it's a luxury that people who can have that
luxury can't afford not to take.
Yeah, so, yeah, well, I mean,mean, I also mean like, and
hopefully then we can fight forother people to also have that
well, I also mean by keepingyour own peace, meaning you
can't take on all of the thingsoh yeah, that's what I mean,

(01:18:02):
it's like, like you, you know,focus on what you can do,
because you can't do it all asmuch as you want to.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
And it doesn't mean you don't care about those other
things, it just means that youare a human being and it's
better to do.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
We don't all have energy and resources.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
Nobody does, nobody does.
But also and maybe I'm wrong,but I think it's better to focus
on one or two things that youcan really effectively do and do
them well, rather than focusingon all the things and doing
none of them well very true youknow, yes, I often feel that

(01:18:45):
way'm like I can't do anythingwell.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
Like, yeah, I feel that way too.
Like stretched too thin.
Yeah, I already was feelingthat way before all this.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
And there are some times, I think, people also
think that you have to do bigthings in order to make a
difference.
Very much not so.
That is very much not so.
And look I, my disposableincome isn't great right, but I
know that I have some, and so Ihave decided to take it upon

(01:19:18):
myself to buy, to purchase hardcopies of books that are banned
or censored.
Yeah, I mean, there are so manythat I know I won't be able to
get them all, but at leastthat's something.
Yep, and in case, just in case,anything has to happen or

(01:19:39):
anything does happen.
I will at least have thosecopies and also you're giving
money to those authors.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
Even when we go to the library.
Yeah, and that helps.
Yeah, check out the more peoplewho support the library, the
more legitimacy the library hasto continue.
Go to the library.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
check out Right, that costs no money.
And if you want to help the banor censored stuff, check out
those books.
Check out books.
Put books on hold.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Put books on hold.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
Put books on hold, because the more those books
circulate, the more likely theyare to stay on the shelves,
absolutely.
And you are making a difference, even though it's not quote,
unquote a huge thing, andlibraries are one of the last
free spaces that people have.
Yeah, and you're doing morethan just the books like those

(01:20:30):
are places where homeless peoplecan go to have a few minutes of
peace or go on the computer orgo on the computer for jobs or
look for resources, exactly likesign up for benefits and things
like that that you needelectronics to do yeah and it's
a place for kids to be able todo you know who may not have

(01:20:51):
access to things to get it's.
It's access for so many people,for so many different things so
and that is a free thing to doyay, libraries yay libraries.
But anyway, my point being, youdon't have to do the big thing,
you can do a small thing, andthat makes a world of difference
to a lot of people, absolutelyso, okay, um, I don't know, now

(01:21:14):
that we're off that soapbox, ormaybe we should get off our
soapbox, um, is there anythingelse?

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
um, I can't think of anything else that I've really
done, or yeah, just been tired,been stunning vietnamese and
yeah, and you've been working.
Yeah, I've been working.
I've been working all the jobs,because being a stay-at-home

(01:21:45):
parent is another job.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Yes, plus, you've got a money-making job.
Yep, so I've got two jobs.
Yes, you've got two full-timejobs Yep.
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
And yeah, we've been all studying Vietnamese and yeah
, it's not going so well.
I mean, I guess it's going okay, but I'm not very good at
language, so it's very slow forme.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
Yeah Well, you're doing better with your
Vietnamese than I am doing withmy Danish.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
That's debatable?

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
No, it really is.
It really is Like what I'vediscovered is I'm pretty good at
it while I'm doing it, but thesecond I get out of the app I
don't remember anything.
Yeah, I remember nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
That's why I don't have very many points on my
Duolingo, because I review thesame lessons over and over again
, because that's the only waythat I'm going to remember it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
Yeah, see, for me, I think I need to combine methods
of learning.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
yeah, I think I need like an actual textbook yep um,
and then use duolingo for likeum pronunciation and and um,
yeah and listening practice,it's definitely getting to the
point where I could use aVietnamese textbook as well,
because I'm like I don'tunderstand this grammar at all.

(01:23:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I've been complaining to youabout it, I know Well.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
I, me too, you know, and yeah, and also what I, I
guess what I don't like about itis that I literally the other
day it was in the middle of,like you're supposed to repeat
what they say.
Yep, I sneezed while I had thething down and it said it was
correct okay, yes, oh my god, soyeah I mean granted sometimes

(01:23:42):
danish does sound like a sneezebut, and the other thing is like
with with danish, they'regiving me words that are just
like in english, which is fine,but how about we look at some
words that are not just likeright in english and sound like
they're in english, like weekendis weekend.
Yeah, that's I mean how?

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
about giving me days of the week, but you probably
don't need to do it over andover again.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
No, I don't need to do that 17 times in a row.
Thank you, duolingo.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so, oh well, anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
Vietnamese doesn't have very many words that sound
like English, but soup is soup,so that one and I think I told
you cat is meow.
Yeah, that's great, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
I love that too.
Cow is cull, yeah.
So I mean, if they're notexactly the same, they sound
very similar.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
I don't know livestock names yet, but I think
I'm getting to it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
I think Jay's done that already, because they're
way ahead of me, and sometimesthey combine words where I'm
like really A yellow cow.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
Or a pink cow.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
How about a black and white cow?
Those are the ones I don't know, so keep telling me black and
white, not yellow and pink.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
Yeah, jay was complaining about some of the
sentences that are in some ofthe later lessons, but I think
those sentences exist to liketeach the differences in, like
the different tonal sounds.
That could be.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
Well, at least in Vietnamese, but in Danish
they're completely different.
Yeah, I just don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
It's just silly.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
It is silly, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Like maybe teach us something we're going to talk
about.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Right, exactly, and I mean usually they're pretty
good about that.
That's what most of thesentences are, are like you know
, have a nice weekend Right.
Or do you speak Danish, or areyou from Norway?
You know, those are thingsyou'll probably ask at some
point.
But telling somebody the cow ispink and yellow.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
Maybe there are a lot of pink and yellow cows.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
Maybe I haven't been to Denmark.
Maybe they dye yellow cows.
Maybe I haven't been to Denmark.
Maybe they die their cows.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
I think Jay has been briefly.
I'll ask them.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so you've been doing all of the
things?
Yep, I've been doing the things, doing all the things except
sleeping, except sleeping.
I would like to sleep.
I don't know what it is with me.
I've always done that.
It's like there will be likeone week every few months where

(01:26:16):
I don't sleep.
Yep, and I need it, I need tosleep, but I, I just can't, for
whatever reason.
I'm exhausted.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
Yeah, I go through phases where I'm like like I
don't sleep for like a week ortwo and then like I do nothing
but sleep for like a week yeah,that's exactly it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
Yeah, for the first time in since I was seven years
old, I've taken a day nap.
I have never I, no matter howtired I am, I can never sleep
during during the day.
And I was so exhausted becauseI hadn't slept at all and I took
a five-hour day nap.
Yeah, of course, then I didn'tsleep at night, right, so?

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
And then when you wake up, you feel all weird.
Yeah, You're like wait, whatday is this today?

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
What time are we?

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
doing what's going on ?
Yeah, what year is it?
What time are we doing?
What's going on?
Yeah, what year is it?

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Yeah, is it morning, is it night?
What time?
Yeah, yeah, okay, so anyway, Iguess that's it, yep, so please
like subscribe, download, reviewEmail.
Email would be nice.

(01:27:29):
Uh, also hit us up on oursocials the the podcast is on
instagram and facebook things Idon't think I've posted, since I
bragged about our little lucy.
Let me win yeah, you shouldprobably talk about how late our
episode is.
Yeah, and also, um, we have ourindividual instagrams linked as

(01:27:51):
well.
Neither one of us areparticularly good at social
media yeah we're on it, we justnever post, it's true, um, but
also, nobody ever looks at ourstuff.
So if people looked, maybe wewould post more, or maybe not.
Probably not, but um no,probably not.
No, I'm gonna be honest youwere posting quite a bit for a

(01:28:16):
while I was doing my manicuresyeah, and then, like I dropped
off manicuring, yeah so that's,I dropped off the social media.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
Yeah, it's like after you post like whatever, like
100 manicures, and you can'tjust post something different
you could, you can reinventyourself, you can okay, but the
my my instagram handle is eeniemanny meenie nails, that's true,
like that's true um, I can'teven say it eenie manny, meenie

(01:28:47):
nails.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
I don't even know what my last post is.
Let me see.
Oh, my last post was when youdid the possible spy episode.
That was my last post.
Prior to that it was it wasnovember 5th yeah when matt

(01:29:09):
murphy signed my, uh, my, hisbook, nice, the book of murder
that's post-worthy yeah, yeah,and not that he would be
listening, but if he is, I got afew more people to buy your
book.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
I should get some royalties out of that I should I
have my nails done now, but butthe polish has already come
half off from washing dishes ohno, you're supposed to wear like
those gloves or whatever.
Yeah, but I hate the way thatthey feel.
Yeah, so it didn't used tomatter so much because I used to
do my nails like twice a weekright.

(01:29:44):
So yeah, that's okay yeah, butyeah, they like maybe you'll get
back to it one of these days,mint mojito by hollow taco okay,
um, so yeah, uh like.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Subscribe.
Download review.
Hit us up on our socials emailus ask us questions, yeah, or
tell us to shut up and stoptalking politics, or whatever.
We won't um, we won't, but youcould tell us?
To okay and we will talk to younext time.

(01:30:23):
Bye.

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