Entrepreneurship and Targeted Drug Therapy: Leveraging Receptor Science ft Dr. Joseph Schlessinger

I got the opportunity to talk to Dr. Joseph Schlessinger, professor at Yale and cofounder of SUGEN and Plexxikon. We talked about his experience as a captain the Israeli Army during the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War and how it affected his career as a scientist and entrepreneur. We also talked about the companies he formed and his research on tyrosine kinase. 


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Pretty pretty Charlie. She had done deemer? People are she
be telling lies?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
So today it is a pleasure to intervoo doctor Slesinger
a professor IO and an accomplished entrepreneur. He has founded
a bunch of baltech companies, eugen and a plasicn So, doctors,
thank you for being on this episode. Can we start
with you taking us back and telling us about your background.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
So I was born a few months before World War
two ended in what used to be Yugoslavia. My family
is Jewish on both sides, and we lost almost all
my family. I was born under very sad circumstances. My
parents escaped and they were captured by the Italian who

(00:52):
was an all Irish Germany, and they were put in
a in some kind of concentration camp on an island.
And when Italy, each of them has its own first family,
so the widowers my father also lost his daughter half
of my half sister of mine. And so when Italy surrendered,
they rebelled, and that they joined what they called the

(01:15):
Partisans of Tito. This is a communist army that was
liberating and for the last two years they were there
and I was born there in the very last months
of the war, immediately after the last German just before
the last German offensive. And so then we settled up

(01:38):
after the war, my father, my mother, and my grandmother
in Yugoslavia, and then because of the harsh situation of
the Communism there, my parents decided to emigrate to Israel.
So in December forty eighth we immigrated to Israel because
one of my uncles and aunt were all did there

(02:00):
in a kibbutz. So we settled there for a few
months and then we we you know, we moved to
a small town and this is where I grew up
and is not far from the city of Faifan, and
so I did all my school there, all my education
and and so so is it do you need more

(02:22):
details about it or should I see?

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I think it's good. I mean, I want to ask
something specific, but okay.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
You can always draft me and ask.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Me ye okay, yeah. So the next question is I
think about you said you serve in the Israeli Army.
For your in the military. So, by the way, this
is the first time we've had a veteran that far
on the front lines. Actually in the war. We had
a previous one, but he was in Israeli intelligence, so
it wasn't in the front lines, but in the backstage

(02:52):
doing all the work. So let me, I'm going to
ask you. It's like, what was it like serving in
the army and what was the role in the army?

Speaker 1 (02:59):
So I was eventually a captain. Yes, I was a
other metal, the other metal, well, you know, I was
I but these are all sort of I participated in
actually four wars, four battle sword bottles, and I I

(03:20):
did not like the idea of military but since it
was compulsory, I had to go and did it. And then,
of course, very quickly in my life, I realized that
you can control your destiny in a better way if
you're involved in the decision making. So that's why, this
is why I decided to become an officer. And I

(03:41):
was basically what they call saper decided Rangers unit, which
I expert on explosives. And I was part of a
of a of a range of brigade called Golani Brigade,
which was very famous and we occupy the gold and Height,
so I saw I participated in quite bad battles several

(04:05):
times in my life, and this really had an important
mark my life in many ways. You would be amazed
to what extent when you are twenty two years old
and you take fifty people to battle, to what extent
it shapes your life. You're mature in your time, and

(04:26):
you know, people try to teach here in the universities
about leadership. I mean, you have to develop leadership instantaneously
when you go to war with fifty people, you know.
And the key aspect which I learned d my early
life about leadership is to respect everyone which that is

(04:48):
under you, and you have to treat everyone as equal.
And I have really used this throughout my entire career
to realize. So I participated in the sixties War, in
the People War, and in some attrition war in between,
and the last one was in eighty two, and I
spent two and a half years in the military and

(05:10):
then about eight months in reserve during all those years.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, man, And the question is why you're clearing my fields?
Did you ever scare you step in one d at
any like your death experiences that you would want to
share with us.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, well, look, look, I in a way, I I
wouldn't say I enjoyed this though, but it was you know,
if you deal with explosive and minds. It's more scientific
than other fields, but you're also part of the infantry
in tank you unit, so it's sort of it's really

(05:47):
telling you a lot about priorities in life and if
you're really close to death. And there were a few opportunities.
When I was under serious fire, it really changed lot.
And it was particularly particularly project because my parents. It
was a tremendous burden of my parents, you know, they
lost everyone. Here I am in a war, so it

(06:10):
really shape of my pacer. I did my degree in
chemistry and physics, and I was thinking more about being
being a physicist, and then I sort of realized at
a certain stage that you know that chemical sciences and
biological sciences are going through revolution and should be part

(06:35):
of it. And when I actually finished my pag d
degree at the whites One place called the White One Institute,
I was planning, ironically to apply for a position of
post occal position at Yale University. This is now in
seventy three, nineteen seventies three and amazing. And then I

(06:56):
went to this war and six months and then I
came back and I had to refresh myself and get
back into normality, and then there was some kind of
meeting in which a lot of international scientists came to
visit as well. This was in nineteen early seventy four

(07:19):
when I met someone called Elliott Elson, with a professor
at Cornell, and he proposed that I joined his lab
for post training. So this was everything was delayed. I
arrived to Cornell University in January seventy five to walk
in the lab of Elliott Elson and what Web and

(07:43):
they developed this method called fluorescence correlation spectroscopy and florescent
bleaching experiments. So I was a pioneer in that field,
doing the experiments studying how molecules move on the cell membrance.
And I became interested at a very early stage in receptors.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
But at a certain stage I realized that biophysical measurements
are not sufficient to understand how things were. And I
was reading the literature, and I found that certain in
the literature that sent certain cancer cells in order to
grow better, they produced some of their own gross factors.

(08:29):
So I became interested in the field, and I in
order to so, I was surrounded by excellent physicists and
chemists at Cornell Universities physics and chemistry department, but no
one knew anything about self culture. So I decided to
go and take a course at the Colt Spring Harbor
Laboratory to learn about how to grow cells, just because

(08:52):
no one knew how to do it and someone so
I learned that and there I mete someone called Graham
Carpenter who was walking with Stelley Cohen who discovered EGF
EF they were gross factor and it gave me a
small amount of EGF to do some experiments. So this
is how I became interested in studying potential receptors and

(09:15):
gross factor, which turned out to be a very very
good decision. And there is quite a lot of literature
already that certain that certain cancer cells produced their own
gross factors.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, I mean I want to go back to I
guess post military when you were in university, Uh, did
you have any PTSD issues after you came back from
your wars and like how to affect your family? Because
I know, I think, especially right now, PTSD is a
huge issue for a lot of former army people coming
back from the war, whereas in Iraq or something. So

(09:49):
I just want to ask your experience.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
So, so I this was not so much discussed at
that time. I clearly, I clearly early had some issues,
but you know, we were different at that time. We
did not complain so much unless it was totally paralyzing.

(10:13):
I had another issue, which was at the end of
my military service, as in the first few months at
my college education, my girlfriend were killed in a car accident,
and in that car accident while in the military, there
were other four people that I knew, and so I

(10:37):
was it was. I was very depressed because of that,
and of course, to some extent ironically, when I went
two years later to the Six Days War, the wholes
of the war somehow put a shadow on my private depression,
so I would not know how to separate between losing

(11:01):
losing my personal having my personal loss, and the public
loss which I was involved getting to treat people in
the battlefield. And so I was clearly very much stressed.
I don't know how to define it. But what was
really amazing as soon as I arrived to the US

(11:24):
and lendoned in this place, Cornell University in Ithaca, which
was surrounded entirely by science, I felt that I came
to an intellectual heaven, and I had and I became
very relaxed and somehow it's like another life. It was
like another life, and this was kind of amazing. So

(11:46):
I do not know exactly how to answer my question,
but there was a major impact on my on my
mood and focus. And the only way in which I
dealt with it is just think, think about future and
hoping that the future will be better, and which turned
out to be the case.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
H Well, that makes sense, you know, do you think
something positive?

Speaker 1 (12:11):
I developed this attitude of positive thinking.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yes, as I mean, I mean, that's really good advice
because I know, I mean, I watched a documentary Chris Kyle,
you probably know who is his American stypri and he
hasn PTSD issues. So I was asking your your experience, especially.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
I I I saw people with severe PhD in the battle.
In the battle, people sitting with shock on their bodies
of their friends and not even noticing that they're sitting
on a person.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, you know you see that. And I've been involved
in some terrible accidents of explosions which you find a
way how to deny and somehow somehow focus on the task,
because if you're really so much control by anxiety, you

(13:06):
cannot function.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Okay, And I know you mentioned how your military experience
impacted your scientific career hobbe your business career, like, how
did the stuff you learned during your time in the
military impact your future techs.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I think when you are subject to extreme issues of
the type that I experienced when I was twenty two
going for the First War, it really taught you a
fantastic lesson of how to deal with people. And as

(13:43):
I told you before, you know, all of us are equal.
We have treated with respect. And I think this served
me in all throughout my entire career. And then of
course I thought that I had leadership because you have

(14:03):
to make decisions. In the second war that I took part,
which was a young peopole or in seventeen three, I
was already a father. I was leading like eighty people
and I wasn't captain. And so you know how to organize,
how to make plans, how to deal with personality. All

(14:25):
those things served you very well in running a lave
and of course in being involved as a chairman of
a board of companies, which I did for several times.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
M So we're going to move on to your scientific work.
I know your lab cloned fiber class work, factory receptor
so my question is he thought this project and how
hard was the ploning process.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
So FGF receptor is one example. So my lab was
involved in studying the molecules receptor tarising kindness before they
were known to parisan kininess. So we started to work
on it. When I moved to an age after doing
a post doctal training at Cornell University, I decided that

(15:15):
I need to increase my knowledge in in biological science.
I was quite good in physics and chemistry and biophysics,
so I took another position at the immunology lab at
at National Cancer Institute with someone called pan hand Cart

(15:36):
and then I established a collaboration with people in Ira
Paston lab at the Cancer Institute and we started to
study receptors and and and so. One of the interesting
things which I discovered at that time is that there

(15:57):
are certain antibodies against scepts which insulin receptor which mimiced
the response, which was kind of very interesting because at
that time it was not known if like EGF or
FGF or or any of insulins enter the cells and

(16:18):
inducer response or they activate their receptors. And the fact
that an antibody against insulin receptor which was isolated from patients,
can stimulate the response indicate that the information is in
the receptor, and the function of the hormone is to
activate the receptors. So I came at that time very

(16:39):
much interested in the purifying receptor in cloning there and
in fact the first a receptor that we were purified
was EGF receptor, much before the FG was cloned and
all that, and I did it at the Weisman Institute
when I was a professor there after Poster, I became

(17:00):
a professor at the Weisman Institute, and this was at
a very early stage of cloning, and there were very
few labs at that time that knew how to obtain
micro sequences. You know, in order to clone at that
time you had to isolate the protein, prepare few peptides,
and then and then use it to develop to screen

(17:22):
cd ANDA libraries. So I developed collaborated with someone called
Mike Waterfield, who was a very good sequencer, and this
is when we made the first important discovery when we
together sort of his lab, Julian Download the student his lab,

(17:43):
collaborated with a student in my life called your cr
then obtained a few peptides from EGF sptor. We realized
that these peptides are identical to a viral oncogene. So
this was the first link between a receptor towers in
kinaes and oncogen and shows you that cancer can be

(18:09):
caused but a barient activation of a normal receptor taros encina.
So this was very important and at that time there
were very few people who do a cloning in a
robust way. So we collaborated with Axel Ulrich, who was
a genetic at that time, and we published a series

(18:29):
of papers in eighty four eighty five in which we
opened this field where we showed that EGF receptor is
a no oncogenic protein. My lab showed that it's amplified
the gene is amplified in multiple cancers. And then of
course we also showed that we have antibodies that some

(18:50):
of them mimic the response of EGF, which against confirmed
the idea that the information resides and there is receptors
and the function of EGF is to is basically to
stimulate activity. We came up once we looked on the

(19:11):
topology of how this receptor look and there are molecules
which have a single exercer or like ad binding domain,
a single transmember domain, and a cytoplasmic domain which staris
in Kinese activity. I came up with the idea that
the function of the ligand is to induce receptor dimerization

(19:33):
because this way you don't have to transfer signals through
the plasma member by pushing and pulling it, but rather
by creating dimers. And this was all happening in the
mid eighties.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
So my next question now is about your company. You've
co founded a lot of companies like some jen and
of the plastic cons you thought the idea to found two.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Gen Okay, this is an interesting story, but I have
to give you a significant background about it. It all
stems from my research. So one of my collaborators was
Axul Ulrich. So Mike Waterfield died two years ago, but
Mike actually is retired. He was one of the early

(20:21):
scientists and Jenetech, and once we walked out e GF sector,
I developed a strong scientific relationship with him and really
became very close to Genetech. And this was a very
early success and and basically Aul Ulric through him, I

(20:45):
sort of got to know what it takes to develop
drugs in in a in a in a company and
and so. But I was not planning to do anything,
and I had no clue about it. But but certain
stage I there was a time for me to to
to get a sabbatical leave from the Whisman Institute. So

(21:11):
one of the fellow who who was my boss at
an age, became a director or president of a company
at Washington area called Melloy Lab that became part of
of Row Pharmaceutical at a certain stage, and he suggested

(21:31):
that I move and take a sabbatical in a in
a company just for one year. And then I told him, well,
it's just for one year. So I said, well, you know,
you never know, you know, maybe you can stay longer.
And so I took this and and this was this

(21:52):
was in nineteen eighty five six, and and they offered
me fantastic conditions and fantastic sick terms. I had a
large lab there and I could do whatever I wanted.
So I was really employed by the company, and they
sort of asked me to be a head of the department.
So I did not quit for my job at the Weizman.

(22:14):
So I would spend like two months in my lab
in the US and two weeks in my lab in Israel,
and I did it for several years.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
There's a lot of flying around.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, flying back and forth and all that. And I
was prepared to do it for a while because I
did not want to quit for my academic science. And
I was in my thirties, you know, I could I
couldn't do it when I was much older. And at
certain stage this company was sold and I had some shares,

(22:47):
and suddenly there was tremendous values to my shares and
which actually changed my life. So suddenly I found myself
to be a part of a company. And you know,
I came to the US without any intention to stay
in or to make money, just to do science and
spend and so it became clear to me that this

(23:11):
is very interesting and that of course this is quite
looked lucrative and new. So I started to think very
early stage about developing inhibitors for tarisan kindness. So I
was proposed proposing it to the company, and in fact
they were really starting this program. But there was a

(23:34):
lot of resistance about blocking the activity of kindness with
ATP analogue that they might be toxic. So there were
several reasons why I did not want to stay and
be employed in the company because I thought that the

(23:56):
freedom that academia allows you and the fact that you
can really do work on things at your own decision,
they're important. So after four five years there, I decided
to go back to academia, and I was considering to

(24:17):
do it at the Weizmann Institute, but there were some
issues there that prevented me. So I eventually took a
job at NYU Medical Center as the head of the
pharmacology department. And how is it linked to started companies
because Axel Ulwich, who was working for many years at
gen and Tech, decided to take a job in Germany

(24:41):
as a director of a Max Planck Institute, which are
a very good position at the market in the German
science and then we realized that we have quite accumulated
knowledge in what it takes to develop drugs, so we
decided we decided to start a biotech company. So this
was in nineteen ninety. So this is the birth of

(25:01):
Soujen m and Sujan stands for Schlessingen Ulrich Tech as
it Lessener you is l you and you're in an
ax yeah. So so and then the other founders was
someone called Stephen Evanswick which was an Englishman which was

(25:24):
an investor, so we put together Sujan and he gave
this name. So this was the first biotech company who
was dedicated to developing drug for cancer. And you can
see how this originates from my past in which I
start to work on EGF receptor, FGFF receptor and all
those things, and we clone many receptors, so FGF receptor

(25:47):
is just one of one of the examples. So we
started SUG and this was quite a big success because
we were doing we were among the first company that
was doing that and which led eventually to acquisition by
some companies. And all the drugs of student have been
developed eventually by Advisor because there were multiple acquisitions and

(26:13):
this benefited the sholders and also royalties payments for drugs
and all that. So this this was financially very very good.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
So I know SUJ went public in nineteen ninety four.
Did you ever get got the chance to go to
New York and bring the bell at the stock exchange?

Speaker 1 (26:33):
You know? So I was not an employee of the company,
so company I was a member of the board and consultant.
I was never I never I always stayed in my
academic department and at my academic lab and department, and
so I was involved. I was involved in the road

(26:53):
show for Sudan getting the public and it was received
very nicely, and then of course it was sold and
eventually two cancer drugs came from that. So during that process,
during the process I realized into the value of structure

(27:16):
biology for getting drug discovery. And then the last president
of Studen was someone called Peter Hirth, and so Peter
and this was the beginning of a period in which
there was interest in what they called structured genomics, solving
structural structures in order to get knowledge and drug So

(27:41):
there was another scientist, a professor from Berkley called san
Jo Kim, a Korean guy, former Korean guy, and we
put together Plexicon, So Plexicon. The idea of Plexicon was
to use structure biology to develop drugs. And since so

(28:03):
in Soudan, I was involved in every aspect, and there
was a sort of agreement between Sudan and my lad
where insights had been licensed and patents have been licensed.
But in Plexicon, I decided that in order to be
involved in the company, I sort of asked to be

(28:25):
the chairman of the boat. So in all of my
other rest companies, I was chairman of the boat. So
I was chairman of the boat of Plexicon from the
foundation until it was acquired by the Ichisankio. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And my question is I know usually went public and
I think back to the NOWS it was as big
as to American Got the co founder was up to.
Eric was on the podcast why do you sell suj
On just wondering.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Well, I you look I when in Sujet I was
at this stage. I was still very naive in the
business side, and the once the investors had an opportunity
for an exit to guarantee their returns, you cannot stop them.

(29:20):
This is what they want to do. The same was
true in Plexico. I would have voted to continue and
develop these companies until they were independent and successful. This
would be my preference because I was now in a hurry.
But this has to do with the spirit of the

(29:41):
business in which when investors have a guaranteed way for
an exit where they will get to return, they will
take because they will the risk it and you know,
if it's fivefold, tenfold, of even sixfold or less to
what they investor there did to do it. And at

(30:03):
that stage of the company. I do not have, did
not have any control, so it was not my decision.
But I did not vote against because there was no
point to make a sort of a statement where I
know that I would lose, because you know, it was
clear that that's what they want to do. They controlled

(30:23):
eighty percent of the shares of the company. M hm.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
See, So was there any like AI involved in Specicon's
platform for drug story?

Speaker 1 (30:35):
We are talking about here late nineties, and so there
wasn't two thousand, two thousands. We were we were We
developed a screening method and we used and we used
software to detect interaction between ligands and and then really
refined so it was very high tech for it was

(30:58):
flaruded in two thousands.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
You know, you know, are there so any drugs on
the market that are developed by plastic one?

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Now two of them? See the first melanoma drug b
rough inhibdo and another drug. So I can send you
all this information, So there are Plexon is responsible for
the developing two cancer drugs. And I can buy the
way center of my CV and all those things if
you want to add it to information that you want

(31:27):
to have. See, so two drugs were developed Plexicon.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, So I have a question. It's not really related
to you, but in the drug discovery industry so recently
I think the staffs former Chancellor Marked la Vid founder
Zara about the company US's AI to Jerry market to
tree diseased. So it's like a drug discovery but it
uses AI. And I think it just got like one
billion dollars in funding, which is I think a record

(31:53):
high for early stage bout tech Storrup. Do you think
AI could push the boutet field in a whole new direction.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, look, at this stage, it's a promise. It has
to be fulfilled. You know. There's it's clearly a powerful technology,
but it's clearly also the raising of money has an
element of a hype, you know. So so I think
it's clearly a great development and and and and and

(32:23):
a lot of investors. Uh, I think that this will
walk in the future. We don't have yet any clear
paths for this to happen. So, so so you describe
what's it? Never the company, I don't know this information,
so as.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
It's Zara x A, I r A.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
They use it's like a AI bout company basically using
AI to start more drugs and it's Marked. Yes, it's
Mark Levin. I mean you're probably probably. I mean he
was on the news recently.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
I know Marked the Je Levin very well. I know
from the time he was a postdoc at Columbia University.
I know him from the time he was president of
the Rockefeller University. I know him. He's a good guy.
I know him well.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Okay, yeah, So the next question, you co founded Colton Pharmaceuticals.
Can you tell the audience what Calton does?

Speaker 1 (33:22):
So? Coulton basically was so as we develop our science,
we elucidated the mechanisms of action at molecular level, and
then of course we solved the crystal structure of the
exercise domain of KIT, which is one of the receptor

(33:43):
tarist and kindness involved in different cancers and different biological responses.
So we found a way how to block it through
therapeutic enterbosse. One of the things that I ignored, and
it was my mistake, is the value of therapeutic antibodies,
because I could have my level was the first to

(34:05):
develop a therapeutic an antibody against EGF receptor, and I
did not put enough value value into this for developing drugts.
And then of course they are quite successful therapeutic antibodies.
So Colton was basically founded on the basis of using

(34:33):
Achilles Hills in receptors which were discovered through structure analysis
to develop new therapeutics. And Colton a certain stage merged
with a company called cell Dex. And cell Dex is
now developing this therapeutic antibody for treatment or different allergies.
And cell Dex is a public company, and you can

(34:56):
see what they're doing. You have all the information. So
this is an abody that we developed and ideas came
from my lab.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
And are you still involved in cell Dex?

Speaker 1 (35:08):
I am, I am, I am on their scientific advisory board.
I see it's a public company.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
So let me ask. I know you just had a
new startup, or recently new startup. It's called Opna Bio.
It just raised thirty eight million dollars. So I like
your previous companies, you found out what does opna biofocus on?

Speaker 1 (35:28):
So so okay, So I founded two companies. So all
my first companies were based on my own ideas and
actual ideas some of them. But at a certain stage,
because of my success in companies a certain stage, some

(35:49):
people shared with me their ideas, and their ideas were
very good, some of them better than mine, and so
we discussed and if it was scientific interesting to me,
I helped them set up a company, and I have
set up two such companies. One of them is called Enozyme,

(36:09):
which is also a public company. Okay. I founded and
I was a chairman of the board until it went public,
and I'm still on their sab. So this is a
company that is using enzyme replacement therapy to cure babies

(36:30):
which have deficiency in an enzyme which causes severe calcification.
And they heard from they die very early. And this
is companies public and the drug is now in phase
two one two. We have generated this enzyme and this
you can find everything because it's a public company. Okay.

(36:53):
A second company, which I founded and I'm also chairman
of the board, is called opner Bio. The scientific idea
is not mine. It was someone called Doug Hanahan, who
is an American and he's basically a professor at epf

(37:13):
L Institute at Lausanne. He's described he found out that
a gene called FMRP, which is normally involved in in retradation,
a loss of functions in this gene caused some kind
of genetic development and retradation. Somehow this gene is co

(37:37):
opted into multiple solid tumors, and and and and then
it causes a switch off to the immune response against
these tumors. I see and so I do so and
you can all. There's a very nice website. You can
look open a bio website describing all what we can do.

(38:01):
Another thing is the company licensed since since basically Plexicon
became part of the Ichisanchio, the Ichisanko decided to move
all her assets into antibody drug conjugate, so they basically
licensed to open a baio all their assets for small inhibitors.

(38:29):
So we have now drugs which are in clinical trial
which is small inhibitor. You can see all these drugs
described in the website of Opena BAO. So you know.
So that this cool inozyme is a public company. You
have a nice website. I'm not involved anymore on the board,

(38:51):
but I'm on the sab Opener baio. I'm chairman of
the board and member of the sb It's not a
public company. It's a company that developed drugs for cancers
and and f m P is the key program in
that company. You can see all the details and if
you need more information and center to you as well.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Mm hmm. I mean, I know you mentioned the oupnotic
fire portfolio of of patents from a Plexico on you
mention how Harvard these negotiations, It's like, what's it hard
to ask as dai chi.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
To actually so this, this is this, this was quite
easy for the following reason. Sod Ichi Ichi I was
I was founder of Plexicon and their president was someone
called Giddon Bolag, which was the president of of of

(39:51):
of of of the Plexicon and then at a certain
stage he decided to move and be the president of
op NA Bayo. So so the person who was running
the problem the program in Daichi Sankyo moved to So

(40:11):
they were very trustworthy, so you see what I'm saying.
So it was like a basically friendly transfer of assets
from one company to another company when I was one
of the founders of both companies.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
So there was not there was It was not a
difficult negotiation because it was we were all we all
knew each other, and there was an interest of continuing
to do because they changed their scope. Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
So I mean it's just that question is I mean,
you found so many companies. Imagine some of them were
still in the stock market, some of them were bought
by other larger pharma series goes that some are still private.
So what do you learn from forming on all these
companies and just postant role.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, well, it's it's a real pleasure to see that.
It's a real pleasure to come one day with an
idea and then talk to colleagues and see that this
is a good idea, and then talk to investors, raise money,
and then eventually hundreds of people are treated and you
see an effect. So this is really very satisfying, Okay,

(41:22):
And it's and I have to tell you that I
never made any strategic plan to do that. I'm doing
all that because this is all enjoyable fun, you know.
I you know, I don't have to walk. I'm at
a retirement age and I have enough income not to
do anything just enjoy life. But I consider that most
enjoyable to do what I really like, like as a scientist.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
And so.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
The market, the public market, and the institutional investors are
subject to a lot of different inputs and and so
they are from time to time situations where there are
hypes and then the AI is certainly an important things,

(42:12):
but to some extent the response is clearly they pick
up everything without much of selectivity because the returns are
not going to be quick.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
So, I mean, just right now at the bow tech industry,
you know what companies right now do you think could
have a similar impact to the bowotech like Biogen and
also Attack.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Well, well, I have not been in I mean, what
are the current new companies which are.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, like, do you think that the similar impact to
the bow tech industry? Watching at tech bow gen.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Well, you know, another company which had a tremendous impact
is Regeneral. Regeneral and Regenderon is an independent company, you know.
And so the early companies, the rate of success in
startups into developing drugs and succeeding as a business is

(43:15):
very low. It's very very low. And you don't know
about many of them which disappeared, so it's difficult to
know which of them. If I would know anyone of them,
which I think is great, I woul probably invest my
own money into it. And that I'm investing my own
money into much much more safer, safer in order to

(43:39):
keep it for the next generation. MM hmm.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
So I see that you're part of your ventures. So
it is you a ventures like the venture capitalist firm
or what is saying? What road do you play your ventures?

Speaker 1 (43:51):
I don't understand the question saying.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
So and I see that you're part of the a
ventures like.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
You have a yeah, yeah, yell ventures. Okay. So, Yeal
Venture is basically a name for the office that the
license that manages the the intellectual property and the business
in the business, in the business area, in every topic.

(44:16):
But the largest portfolio of Yale Venture is their life science.
But they do other things too. So I am I
as all faculty members of Yale are associated if they want,
with ye Adventures. But it's not. It's there's nothing there
beyond myself being just another member of the faculty. See.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
So, what advice did you receive during your career that
shaped your professional development? For success?

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Very very simple advice. You have to like what you're doing.
I was. I always looked for having intellectual pleasure and
enjoying the science and looking forward for another day of
going to the lab. That was my advice. You should
really I never did anything for you know, I optimized

(45:09):
it in order to get nice income. But it was
not never the motivation, and I always realized here it's
a great opportunity. I want to find some new discoveries
and go with the science when we can develop some drugs.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
So is there any other advice you'll give to students
you want to become scientists or entrepreneurs specifically.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Well, this is the same advice I give them. I
throw out my career. I always had fun. Not that
I did not have setbacks or failures, of course everyone has,
but I always had fun. Science is there's so much
to do in science, and there's so many ask questions

(45:59):
to ask. So it's really I feel always like a
boy that comes to a toy store, you know, and
has to choose. So this is this is my advice.
If you don't have fun, don't do this.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
H thank you doctor Sessions for being part this episode
giving me the opportunity to talk to you so people
can get to know more about your insights and tarsis
and entrepreneurship.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Okay, thank you very much,