October 31, 2024 • 59 mins
Have you ever found yourself at a crossroads, where the path to a healthier life seems daunting yet profoundly necessary? Join us in an intimate and candid conversation with special guest Zach Caywood as we uncover the transformative power of sobriety and rediscover the joy of music. As we reminisce about the concerts that shaped our youth, from the electrifying riffs of Killswitch Engage to the emotional resonance of A Day to Remember, Zach and I share our journey of overcoming addiction and reigniting our passion for the electric guitar. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of personal growth, where music becomes not just a soundtrack but a lifeline.
Zach opens up about a pivotal Thanksgiving that marked the beginning of his sober journey, setting the stage for a renewed focus on creative expression. We delve into how music legends like Randy Rhoads and Dimebag Darrell have inspired a unique blend of melodies that speak to both mellow and hardcore audiences, with a focus on embracing the beauty of "happy mistakes" in the creative process. This journey isn't just about music; it's about finding new purpose and the therapeutic nature of artistic endeavors.
We also explore how the digital age affects personal values, with social media often challenging our sense of integrity. In a world that sometimes prioritizes materialism, we emphasize the importance of staying true to oneself. Join us as we share the unexpected ways pets can influence sobriety, the calming ritual of coffee, and the ongoing battle with anxiety and temptation. Connect with Zach on YouTube and Instagram to follow his inspiring journey, and discover how our shared experiences can provide a sense of community and support for those navigating similar challenges.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
We'll be right back.
(01:25):
I've seen Killillswitch oncebefore.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I've seen him twice actually.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Did you get to see him with Howard or with Jesse?
Both times, jesse both times.
Yeah, that sucks I like Jesse,but there's just something about
Howard's vocals.
I don't know.
He's a stud Hands and feetbeyond anybody, unfortunately
including Jesse, and it's notoften that you see a band like
(01:53):
they go back to their originalsinger and people miss the guy
that replaced him.
Yeah, for sure I think it'sawesome.
But yeah, especially, I want tosee Kublai Khan on that tour.
Really really bad, they'rereally popular.
And like they're still kind ofon the upswing.
It seems like at our age we'reseeing bands that are.
It was like the other night atthe Day to Remember in August
(02:16):
Burns Red.
You know they're.
I won't, I don't want to saythey're on the downswing, but
like their hype train was what?
10-15?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
years ago like definitely.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
You know, they weren't, they were still very
very good.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
They ended on came out in like 2009 or 8.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, downfall of us all and that was like one of
their biggest but kublai khan'sone of those bands that are like
still on the upswing.
I think that's so popular.
With the funny thing the othernight at that show that we were
at, you're like man, I was kindof expecting more kids to be
here.
I'm like dude, we were the kids, I know.
(02:53):
You know, it was just kind ofweird to think about it that way
.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
After I said it, I kind of that's true, and for me
it's like a day to remember wassuch a huge part of like the
music I listened to growing up.
I don't really realize that noteverybody listened to them.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
That's fair.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah so.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
And then when you're growing up in that crowd and
you're listening to that kind ofmusic, you're all talking about
it all the time.
You don't think about the factthat nobody else was really
listening to it other than yourclique.
Right For sure, the fact thatnobody else was really listening
to it other than your click,you know, right for sure.
But I am here with mr zachcaywood and I actually I had a
doctor's appointment in peoriatoday and pulled up the old
(03:36):
episode probably for the best, Ihope no, it was.
It was a cool episode.
It was cool.
To reminisce it, it was Augusttime last year.
We were leading up toTimberfest, the second one,
timberfest 2 Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
So it's been a little over a year since I've been in
here.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not a lot to changedown here, just a few more band
posters.
But you know, right, it comeswith the territory.
But you had kind of wentthrough on that first episode
talked about.
You know, grew up inBlandinsville, not too far from
(04:13):
here, and played baseball andeverything and then once you
figured out how to pick up aguitar, you never really looked
back, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And it's been a rollercoaster ride ever since.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah definitely yeah, it's been a roller coaster ride
ever since.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, definitely.
I've really been rekindled withmy love of playing the electric
guitar lately because after Igot sober from alcohol I started
to be able to feel the joy Ihad um playing guitar again and
(04:46):
like I picked it up and I'm like, all right, I'm supposed to be
doing this makes sense.
I should have been doing thisall along yeah, that's the
biggest thing about like gettingsober was all the things that I
neglected to do because I wasdoing other things Because yeah,
(05:08):
you were partying, yeah, orspending time here or there
doing different things.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's part of it.
When did you decide because Ipartied with you at Timberfest
last year, you know yeah, whendid you decide that, like, this
is what I've got to do, this iswhat I'm gonna do, and then, and
then decided to just go throughwith it uh, truthfully, I'll
just tell a story that kind oflike yeah, it's it don't ever at
(05:37):
any point, but if any pointlike I'm stepping on toes or I'm
pitching a nerve, just tell meto kick rocks.
Dude an, I'm honestly an openbook.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I don't really like to hide.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
No, and that's one of the things I like about you.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I'm not embarrassed or ashamed.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And I have had those feelings about things about
myself before in the past andyou know, having like guilt or
shame or embarrassment of thingsthat you've done, that's really
no way to live.
Guilt or shame or embarrassmentof things that you've done,
that's really no way to live.
So but yeah, like I think itwas november 23rd would have
(06:12):
been the last day I drank okay,so you're talking like two
months after timber fest last,yeah, yeah and I was watching
sean griffith play music at thegolf course.
But the morning before that Ihad already drank like a whole
bottle of whiskey and I gotthere it was like 1 o'clock in
(06:33):
the afternoon.
I was really hammered and otherthings and I like passed out at
the bar for a second andsomebody there called someone in
my family and of course theyshowed up there to pick me up
and take me home and you knowthat's never a great feeling.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
That's not a great feeling.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
No, it's one thing if you call your family, member
and be like hey I had a few toomany, could you?
you know, but when someone elseis like come get your boy and
then at that time I was stillliving at my mother's house, you
know, and it's like I getdropped off there at my mother's
(07:16):
house and it was just likeeverything just hit me and it's
like I cannot do this anymore,like this is not the life that I
want to live, right, like thisis honestly embarrassing, you
know.
So, yeah, that was the first,that's all it takes sometimes,
(07:37):
uh, yeah, thanksgiving is likemy first actual like day, sober,
sober.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So that'll be a year that's awesome coming
thanksgiving that's not an easydecision to make.
I mean, we talked about alittle bit of it the other day
where you had said that you know, I've that, that you're pretty
much doing stuff on your own.
Now you know you're playingyour guitar, you're doing this
(08:06):
and doing that.
I was like well, with alifestyle like this, um, you
know you gotta cut ties.
Sometimes you gotta sever umcertain friendships or certain
relationships.
You know that probably dependedon that being drunk all the
time.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Oh, definitely you know the vibe or the group or I
can honestly say that, likebeing an alcoholic, I would
choose my friends around likewho would let me and they'd be
an alcoholic, you know, I meanso now that I'm not, I don't
really have the same connectionwith those people, and that's
(08:45):
all right.
It's not that I don't careabout them anymore, it's just
like I'm trying to do otherthings and go to the bar
utilizing that time towards umthis sweet ep you're gonna drop,
which is yeah, you know, we'regonna try to push a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
No, like he played a couple of tracks for me and I
thought it sounded.
I thought it sounded legitbecause you kind of got a vibe
to it.
That's like I said it's.
It's got its parts that aremellow enough to play like at a
community center or somethinglike that, and people be like
wow, you guys were heavy, youknow.
But you know it's enough tokind of make those people kind
(09:24):
of on the edge of their seat butit's still hard enough to keep.
Like the metal hardcore folkslike interested.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I think it's got a sweet vibe to it.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Honestly, not a lot of actual thought went into
writing the songs.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
It was more of just like letting whatever came out
come out, like like hear a lickor a part, and then build off of
that.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Or do you?
Um, for the most part, thefirst thing I do is I choose a
speed, yeah, and then I startwith a click track and I play
until I have like a riff that Ilike, that I want to start with,
and then, honestly, I just keepbuilding from that.
Um, when I'm recording my riffs,a lot of times, like I'll know,
(10:11):
the riff is coming to an end ofwhere I want that part to end,
so I'll purposely jump to arandom spot in the next section
to like start, and thatsometimes in the next section,
to like start, and thatsometimes doesn't work out, but
a lot of times you end up in areally cool place, yeah, to
start, that you might not havestarted if you were actually
(10:34):
thinking about where you want tostart, yeah, and so it's like
um, happy mistakes, I guess,like sometimes are the coolest
parts to tracks.
Yeah, like you accidentallyplay a sour note but it just
feeds back just right and itmakes a really cool sound like.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I really like that part of making music because
that's like really organic, youknow yeah, and you've talked
about your influences on, on thelast podcast, you're, you know
you're randy rhodes shreddingand then you're, I know, dime
bag's a huge, huge influence ona lot of what you like to do,
dime bag is definitely myfavorite lead guitar player.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
James hepfield is probably my favorite guitar
player overall.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
He's the man.
You don't do it for.
As long as they've been doingit, then, like not have
something figured out.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Right for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
You know, and they've gotten by with some interesting
songs and albums, but peoplebuy them.
So they were just showingvideos of that jackass grabbing
the ball out of that dude'sglove.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
What was he?
Thinking the hell was hethinking Just the look on his
face.
He just looked like dumb.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
You know, you just look at him and he's just like
it's funny when a Yankees fan'sdown there doing that to a
Dodgers player and other Yankeefans are like yelling at him and
pulling him off Like you can'tdo that, dude.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Your own side is telling you you're an idiot,
you're an idiot.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, a lot of times, and that's just life in general
.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I've been told that I was usually.
They were usually right.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
What else you been doing as far as are you still
fishing a lot?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
no.
I haven't been fishing thatmuch.
Really.
All I have been doing islearning about, like, the
recording process.
I'm doing a lot of videos andstuff for studios, like trying
to figure out how all theequipment works, because there's
like so much equipment thatcomes to like mixing a track
(12:52):
Absolutely.
You know EQs, compressors, allthis other stuff, and I could
barely run a computer when Istarted this demo.
I'm not kidding.
No no, I hear you.
I've only ever had one computerin my life, so and?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
if you want a software that's overwhelming,
just start trying to find, likethe intricate ways you can
manipulate a track on arecording software.
Yeah, you know it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean I got music out coming out, but it was
definitely a huge learningcurve to get to that point.
So I think the next album isgoing to be like I want the next
album to be more of like a realalbum and not a demo that I
(13:39):
take, you know, a really goodamount of time, like mixing the
tracks, mastering, getting theguitar tones that I want, the
bass tones, drum sounds, allthose things, Because like
that's what makes a really highquality good track is sounds
that work good together.
(14:00):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Finding similar tones , but making them sound
different in their own way.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, yeah so it's uh , I really enjoy it and it's one
of the only things I've everreally been able to like focus
on and pay attention.
So I know it's, I know it'ssomething good for me if I can
actually pay attention to it andlearn about it is it like
youtube videos or tutorials?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
yeah okay, a lot of youtube videos.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I watch a lot of rick beato videos he's a producer
and songwriter and stuff, buthis videos are really good.
A lot of information in there.
Um, I watch this thing calledtone talk.
It's got dave friedman and theyjust talk about guitar
amplifiers.
They've worked for famousguitarists so they talk about
(14:50):
their setups, things like that.
I like to watch making albumsvideos.
Periphery has four.
I think they're kind of behindthe scenes of when they recorded
their albums and it's gotcandid videos.
(15:11):
It's cool.
It connects you closer to theband.
It makes you feel closer tothem.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Every band's a little bit different in how they go
about it.
I remember watching those kindof things on the uh, you know,
kind of the behind the scenes ofof lincoln park's meteora and
shit.
They would write hundreds ofsongs, oh yeah, you know, and
they'd only pick like the creamof the crop to choose from.
And then they would pick fromthat.
(15:40):
So it makes you wonder, youknow, when I hear reworked,
remaster, never released, like Idon't usually get really
excited about it.
With most bands I think it'sjust a like okay, that song
sucked enough not to make yourfirst couple albums, you know.
So I kind of I kind of ignoreit.
But when it comes to lincolnpark stuff it's like oh yeah,
(16:01):
because these guys had whatseemed like thousands of songs
in the mix.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And they wrote all their songs in the studio too,
which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, you know, it really is how they went about
doing that.
And then we had a difference ofopinion about the new chick
singer of Linkin Park.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, oh, she's pretty good.
I'll give it to her, but itjust does not sound like lincoln
park to me no, and I thinkthat's the weird part, is I?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I think the world accepted that, like we're never
gonna hear chester.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Obviously we didn't have much choice, but I don't
know man, they can do AI nowthey can, they could put him up
there in holographic form andjust.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
That's so creepy.
He's right there, isn't thatcreepy as hell?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
It is.
You're never living in reallife again.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
You could go on for days talking about the
creepiness of AI, oh I know.
Go on for days talking about,like, the creepiness of ai, oh I
know.
Yeah, it's crazy that there'sdrones and stuff out there with
ai that they program to blowthemselves up and they're just
like nah, I don't feel likedoing that today you know, yeah,
I mean, I read some stuff on ita couple years ago, so no, I
(17:19):
can't point out the exactfreaking article, so eat me if
you call me out on it.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
But but it's going to now all five of you to listen
to the podcast I don't know, Ijust yeah, maybe we have seen
too many bad movies about ai,but it just doesn't seem.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
It seems too terminator like it's always a
robot coming to kill us all.
Man.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
And I think like technology is advancing so fast,
dude, like it's going to be notime, and I think that with
people's like mental health too,I absolutely agree, trying to
adjust to technology?
We cannot.
Our brain can't adjust towhat's happening around us as
(18:09):
fast as it's happening around us.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
We're creating things smarter than us, which?
In itself is a really weirdconcept.
Yeah, we are creating things tobe smarter than us.
It'll be the Matrix before weknow it.
Maybe we're already in theMatrix, maybe we're already in
the matrix.
Maybe we're already in thematrix, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, you don't want to get me started on this, I
kind of do.
Everybody will be logging out.
Everybody.
Get your tinfoil hats on.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It's going to get weird.
Mel Gibson's about to put thecollar back on.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I don't know.
I guess you could call me aconspiracy theorist, but at what
point am I just telling thetruth here?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I should get you and Steve Moe in the same room
talking conspiracy theorist.
We'd be here all night.
The last time I podcast withhim he's just like dude, yeah,
it's zach.
Zach got a puppy.
What that's weird.
It's like.
Why is that weird?
He goes, I don't know it.
Just he just randomly got apuppy, was that?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
was that part of the?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
boy, charlie boy, because he came around not long
after the whole decision to gosober.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
He did.
Charlie's never seen me drunk,which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
That's an interesting motivator.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It is because I don't want to go.
So I'll tell you this this iskind of weird.
No, not at all.
When I lived with my friend,she had a dog and I noticed
about her dog like wouldn't likeme.
She would kind of hide from me,even if I was trying to be nice
(19:54):
to it.
She just could tell that I wassmelling different than I
normally would, yeah, and likewhen I'm sober, she was kind of
like I was like one of herfavorite people, you know, yep,
so that's like one thing.
I always do try to payattention to how the animals
(20:16):
respond to me, like my dog andlike if I'm not taking care of
myself, which means I'm nottaking care of myself, which
means I'm not taking care of himthat well, he starts acting up,
Gotcha Makes sense.
And then I know it's like, okay,I need to focus, like I need to
take him on more walks or Ineed to do get out of this house
(20:38):
.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
He's your therapy dog , or whatever.
You know, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And when I do that, it helps me too.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You know he's going through your training program.
You know that, in my opinion,is the very definition of a
therapy dog oh yeah, he's.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
He's my best friend.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Honestly, man, I'd be lost without him well, it gives
you something to look forwardto coming home.
It gives you something to youknow.
Yeah, you're not just laying onthe couch watching tv anymore.
You're laying there with yourdog right, which you know.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
There's just something about that I've been
getting in these bones from thepet store.
They're like this big, right,right.
He ate the entire thing in like30 minutes today and I'm like
how I never had got him one ofthose and I wasn't sure if he
was actually supposed to beeating it or not.
But hopefully he was.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I thought it was just something he was gonna chew on
for a while, but it was gone wehad some piggies for the dogs,
like in the last week or so, andyeah, they lasted like a day
yeah, I can't make treats oranything last around him.
And Cricket it's my new dog.
He's still got sharp puppyteeth.
(21:54):
I was like, how is your teethstill this sharp after chewing
on a damn bone all day?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, Charlie's also like he's learning how to be a
sound engineer too, because Ilike to mix you start whining.
If something's off, I useheadphones usually but, for the
most part, I mix with studiomonitors because I don't like to
have headphones on all the time.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Basically, you know I do the same thing when I edit
walk around.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I can whatever, but I've noticed like there's some
times when I'll be mixingsomething, I hit just the right
frequency or sound frequency.
I look over at him and his earswill like perk up, yeah, and
it's like all right, I got it,that got it.
That's the good stuff rightthere.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's the one, Charlie Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
That's the take.
That's awesome.
He just sits there, lights acigar and he says do another
take.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Slow key becoming your like colonel to your Elvis.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, most of the time I am just like on YouTube and
I'm watching, learning stuff,learning, trying to learn man.
Uh, I like watching videos withRick Rubin in them, because
he's like my favorite producer.
Uh, yeah, I mean, that's whatall the great people did.
(23:24):
They.
So, yeah, I mean, that's whatall the great people did.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
They found people to like kind of look up to and copy
them, yeah, mentors, and kindof set the standard for
themselves to see if they couldcome anywhere close to matching
it, or at least try, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I think honestly, if you just make something that you
actually think is good, right,that's really.
And if you genuinely do thinkit's good, then it doesn't
really matter what other peoplethink about it.
It's very true.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
It's very true.
You were kind of talking aboutthat the other night, um headed
to the show.
Uh, how that kind of correlatedwith your sobriety as well.
As now you're like yeah, I knowthat when I'm intoxicated I
cannot play as well as I do whenI'm sober.
He goes, my brain tells me Ican definitely you know, my
(24:19):
brain tells me it soundsfreaking awesome.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I mean, I've literally fallen off the stage
like drunk before.
Yeah, I mean I'm pretty.
I was pretty good at hiding howsevere of an issue that I had
with it.
Yeah, have still.
I mean that's a but.
Um, it is what it is.
(24:42):
Everybody has something that'sprobably holding them back.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You just kind of got any kind of hope that people you
know just kind of face it headon like you have you know,
because from what I know youhaven't been to any like aa
meetings.
I haven't, but I want to youknow you've talked about.
You know, maybe talking tosomebody about some stuff, but
you know you've never saidanything about.
You know maybe I need to getchecked into this or that.
(25:10):
You're just hey, I've got thisgoing on and I'm going to figure
it out.
You know, you've always beenreally honest about it.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, I mean I had a pretty strange childhood, so I
do like talk to a therapist forthat I just started and it has
started to help me.
Um, yeah, it's some.
That is something I wish Iwould have done a long time ago,
(25:39):
like when I was a kid.
Actually is to go and talk to acounselor figure out how to
process some of the stuff I'vehad trust issues with people for
my whole life and like I'venever been able to have a
healthy back and forthrelationship with people because
I, um, or that they're gonnalike be there for me but then
(26:01):
leave.
Yeah, um.
So yeah, it's just workingthrough a lot and, honestly,
just talking about it helps it,does it really does?
(26:22):
I mean, I never thought it didall right you know like we were.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You know you grow up.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
You know tough it out , man it up rub some dirt in it.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You know which, to an extent, is not toxic?
Masculinity, like all right toan extent, you know, teach boys
to be men, but like also teachthem how to like feel and to
think about things, rather thanjust shove it stiff upper lip,
yeah yeah, you know, and I'vealways been like an emotional
(26:56):
person man, my whole life, whenI was a kid.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
So like if somebody would say like oh, boys, don't
cry.
Like how does that make alittle boy feel if he cries a
lot?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Right, yeah.
Not great Gives you a complex,Gives you like a yeah, a false
sense of what it is to actuallybe a man.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Sure, that is another thing.
Is like I am trying to figureout, like what kind of man that
I want to be.
It's like I am trying to figureout like what kind of man I
want to be, not like what I'vebeen taught men are, because I
was taught a bunch of bad things, you know Fighting, drinking
and whatever.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, but that's not really what aligns with my.
That's more what I would.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with being manly.
I don't think there's anythingwrong about being tough or
strong or buff or you knowhonestly.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
For me, I think the most masculine thing a man can
do is just be himself.
Yep, if he wants to wear pink,he can like if he wants to have
long hair, he can like.
That's something to me that'salways with my head is like oh,
only girls wear pink, boys wearblue.
(28:13):
Girls only have long hair.
Yeah, girls only wear this typeof clothing.
It's like, well, who decidedthat?
Right, you know like I want tolook at things and say like this
is the choice I want to make,not the choice that somebody
made a hundred years ago I.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I think in today's world we like walk a very fine
line between worrying aboutbeing yourself or worrying about
what people think is decent ormodest.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, you know For sure.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
And you want to be.
You know you should want to bea person that can be themselves
but still respectable aroundother people.
Right, and I think that you canaccomplish that, regardless of
you know, everybody hasdifferent love.
Everybody has different viewspolitically, you, socially,
economically, whatever and ifyou can have those different
(29:08):
views from one another withoutlike hating one another, oh yeah
, and I think we've lost a lotof that over the years well,
it's easy to be mean to peopleon a computer.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
That's a big part of it yeah, and also people get on
the computer and they justcompare themselves to everyone
else.
I do it.
I mean, a 16 year old girl getson there on TikTok and she sees
all these rich, sure 16 yearold girls and she thinks her
life is the worst life of alltime, yeah.
(29:43):
And it's like dude, your life,life is awesome, but you're
comparing it to like somethingthat's not even realistic, not
even you know.
And I'm not saying that youcan't look at those people and
possibly have goals of havingthose things, but if that's all
you care about is having fancystuff or being famous or
(30:07):
whatever like, Right, you'remissing the mark.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
That's a very bad mindset.
I would agree with that.
There's nothing wrong withbeing successful, influential,
rich.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
There's nothing wrong with those things.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
I think, if that's what dominates your, if that's
what dominates your motivationin your, in your psyche, and
like I think when you're willingto hurt other people to get it,
that's when it becomes tiresome.
Or hurt yourself in order to getit, yeah, there's nothing wrong
with hustling or overachievingor working hard, but like if you
(30:47):
are way too hard on yourself orif you're a perfectionist and
nothing is right, like you'regonna, you're gonna suffer right
yeah, I mean I've always I'vebeen a person that I'm not gonna
like compromise my characterfor money, sure, like I'm not
gonna do some, and that doesn'tmean I wouldn't do something
(31:09):
illegal it just means I wouldn'tdo something 20 bucks is 20
bucks but um, yeah, like Ialways ask myself like mostly
about what other people aredoing, because I see people
(31:30):
doing shady shit for money allthe time, sure, and I'm like
would I do that?
Well, no, I can see how a personwould want to do that I know.
Yeah, exactly, and it's likethere are times where you have
to make a choice and it's likeyou gotta make the choice that's
(31:51):
gonna help you sleep at nightexactly regardless, regardless
of what is in your bank accountlike make sure when you look in
the mirror you don't dislike theperson that's looking back at
you, and that you can get anight's rest knowing that you
did something you know, decentthat day.
Right, you know or maybe noteven decent a lot of people try
(32:14):
to justify things.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
They do, you know, but absolutely by saying oh it's
, this is actually really goodthing and it's's like come on,
You're like just turning itaround because you feel bad
about doing whatever you'redoing.
But money makes people crazy.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Reality makes people crazy too, and people nowadays
are working really hard tochange their realities rather
than deal with the one they'reliving in.
I think For sure, man, but weall find ways to get through it.
We all find ways to deal withthe things we're dealing with,
and sometimes it's with a guitarand a dog and sometimes it's
(33:01):
with.
You know some real worldsituations that you could have a
nearby death experience.
You could have had a verynegative experience where you
passed out somewhere and didn'tknow where you were or what
happened to you.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Or you know, there's all sorts of scenarios out there
where maybe you didn't make thebest choices and you are, where
you are, scenarios you know forme well, I mean for everybody
really you know, and you caneither make an excuse or you can
find a way to work through itthat was my biggest thing is,
(33:38):
I've always kind of had like a Ican't do better, any better
than this mentality, yeah, whichcomes from like a place of I'm
scared to go out and do thisshit.
There you go Straight up.
That's where it comes from, andso that's the thing.
I'm trying to get out there andplay music and actually start
(34:02):
living life again.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Well, and doing things that you, you know that
you're going to be proud oflater yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Even if this demo sucks, I'm always going to
remember it because it's thevery first one I've ever done on
my own right, so it has a lotof, you know, just for that
reason, like importance to meand the stuff you were going
through while you were writingit you know, there's no words.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
There's no vocals, but like you can feel the raw
energy that that you're gettingthrough.
You know, just each day, justfind a reason to get up and do
something.
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, and I mean that is honestly one reason why I
wanted to leave vocals off of it, because I do feel like I can
talk with the guitar, Like Idon't necessarily need to have
my human voice on it Someonetelling the story for you
Exactly.
I do still want to make videosthat go along that are kind of
(35:03):
themed for each song.
That's an idea that I have, but, um, yeah, it's just about like
letting the music talk.
I don't absolutely.
Anybody can listen to it andthey can take and interpret it
in whatever way they want to Ionly drink one cup.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I only let myself have one cup a day anymore.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Well, when I quit drinking, I did kind of use
coffee as a crutch to get me offof it, because I mean you can
drink.
If you drink like four pots ofcoffee, you'll get some kind of
buzz.
It's not a good thing to do,but like if you're.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
It's a much healthier buzz, naturally, then.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Right.
So yeah, I mean, I'm only downto one cup a day now I've kicked
it back, but I can only handleabout one cup a day there is
times like if I feel like I needto drink, I will get.
I'll go up to the gas stationand get coffee.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Because it does help.
I think the warmth of it iskind of calming and that's a,
like I said, kind of a naturalstimulus.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, it's still which is debatable, you know
still not good for you.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Like I know that there's times where I've drank
too much coffee because my likenervous system gets all out of
whack, like my hands will that'swhy I have to stay in one.
One cup, right, yeah my fingerswill get really cold and then
my back will be sweating or mychest will.
It's really weird.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
If I drink too much coffee.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
yeah, it just like dysregulates your body like too
much caffeine does.
I'm like a walking poster childfor what not to do, because,
like, seriously.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Drink enough coffee for my back my back to sweat.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's like if I don't live extremely healthy, I just
have all these health problemsRight Straight up and it's.
I hate it, but it's it'steaching me how to live a
healthy, healthier life.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
And coming from what I came from, like dude when I
was 19, 18, like I barely atefood.
I lived basically off alcoholand maybe a potato every once in
a while.
So yeah, I mean now I like toeat healthy food, I like to cook
(37:34):
my own food.
Right, that's another thing,like what you put into your body
man affects so much aboutabsolutely mental health.
It's actually insane, and I meanjust like get two plants and
water one with water and water,one with beer and see what
(37:54):
happens.
The one you are with beer isn'tgonna be doing too hot no,
probably not yeah, so oh, mine'sgot a taproot that enjoys beer
from time to time.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
So, yeah, but no, I I get it and like I've been super
happy for you in this process,like um, because you'll post
from time to time something onsocial media where you're like
you know, I've done this, I'vedone that, it's helped me cope,
(38:28):
and other people can see thatand be like okay, you know, see
how he's kind of doing hisprocess and can kind of go off
of that.
But there are some folks outthere that are like well,
sober's the new thing, you knowyeah, and can become obnoxious
about it, I know.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
And I definitely try not to be that way.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I don't want to honestly tell anybody what to do
with their lives, because Iwouldn't want anybody to tell me
what to do with mine.
All I do is just share myexperience, how it has helped me
Right, because it has helped mea lot in life.
And not everybody is a ragingalcoholic and I know that.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, we had that conversation as well.
It was like I've got a buddy inmy life who he has won two
beers, he has 20, you know, andit's once he takes off, it's
like the Daytona 500, you know,oh, I know very well.
(39:34):
And you had related to that.
You're like, yeah, you know,for me I can have one or two or
three beers with dinner orsomething, and I'm good.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, see, I'm pretty jealous of that, but I've never
been able to be like that.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I will never learn how to be like that either.
Yeah, and I know guys that arelike that.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Right, I will never learn how to be like that either
.
Yeah, and I know I know guysthat are like that too.
Where it's, you either dealwith it in a few different ways,
like like you have where you'reokay, like I'm not even gonna
cross that line, because once Icross that line, we're in it for
the long haul oh, it's been alot of trial and error, like
I've tried to quit drinking orbe a person who could, like
(40:16):
limit it, limit my drinking, andit never gets limited well, the
folks I know nowadays that havethat mentality and still drink,
it's just like they have toknow that they've got nothing
going on the next day.
They have to know that um.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Oh, it ruins it for me, you know it ruined days.
It could ruin a week, right, ifI really got after it really
partied hard like I could besick for literally a week.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
But most of the guys I know that deal with that are
just like you know, I, I.
They don't drink during theweek because they know that one
and two means 20.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
You know and and I get that, and I can be that guy
too, I I'll, I'll roll for 20 orwhatever, but like I can also
flip into that mode where I'vegot to work tomorrow, I've got
stuff going on.
I got to do something with thegirls.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
It's like, okay, you only need a couple and then
you're, you're done, like Ifortunately have that switch
yeah, you're lucky because, likefor me, it's like I want to
push the limits of everything,everything, every single thing
that I do, so I'll.
I'll be thinking like here's anexample like I might drink like
(41:38):
six beers and feel okay to goto work the next day, so the
next night I would drink seven,the next night I would drink
eight, and it's just like itkeeps building.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
And then the next thing you know, you've got a
tolerance and you need 20 beers.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, I'm drinking 20 beers a night like what no man,
but like you just put it interms of like you were gonna
drink 20 pepsis.
How ridiculous does that?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
sound dude like I couldn't do it.
I couldn't drink 20 pepsis.
I don't know, it's yeah they.
Even if I liked pepsi, Icouldn't drink 20 of them, you
know no I don't know that Icould drink 20 bottles of water
in a night.
No, you can't drink 20,anything, except for something
that's like getting you prettymuch.
Yeah, that's pretty wild.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
It starts to change the way you feel.
That's what you get a hankeringcraving for.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
So, like at that point, is it enjoying the beer
or just the feeling of beingintoxicated?
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, For me it's the feeling Like I could care less
to taste it.
I get it yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
See, and I'm the kind of guy that I can walk into a
micro brew and be like, ooh, Iwant that one, that one, that
one, that one and that one.
I don't care if I get drunk, Ijust want to try those beers,
because I love beer.
See, I'm not that kind of guy.
Yeah, and trust dude, there'sso many that I run into where
it's like.
You know, either I don't likecraft brews, I just, if I'm
(43:20):
going to drink, I'm going todrink, you know.
Oh, I like the taste of them,but it's uh.
But at that point you know why.
Why are you going to go?
Buy nice beer if you can do thesame effect for 20 bucks and a
30 rack, you know?
Yeah, it's interesting when youthink about it that way.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
There's only been a couple of times that I've wanted
to drink since I've gottensober, and it's times where I
feel really depressed or like,and I'm wanting to use that to
feel better and I know that atthat point, like if I start
drinking, then it's gonna bereal bad it's gonna be bad, so I
(43:53):
haven't yet.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Uh, hopefully never will I hope you never do not to
well I, I'll take that back,like, if one day you want, if
you're just like man I wonderwhat it was like blah, blah,
blah.
And in it you say to yourselfyou know what I, maybe you want
to be able to responsibly drinka beer or something.
(44:14):
I hope that you have theopportunity to do that.
But, like, if you never do, ifyou're just like I know I'm
going to taste that thing andit's going to be a 30 rack
tonight, then I hope you neverdo right.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
No, you know, I, I can say right now that is what
it would be for me and I don't,I don't want to risk it, but
that's why I don't do shots, youknow, I would, oh man, you know
, started on like no, my bad,but it's like I don't like how
(44:45):
the shot tastes.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
I just want to be manly enough to say I took a
shot, you know I like it.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I like the burn of it going down, kind of like, uh,
smoking a cigarette.
I like the feeling of inhalingthe smoke I love the feeling of
sandpaper against my lungs whenyou're an yeah, when you're an
anxious person, it's like youfeel empty inside all the time I
(45:11):
do, and that's I use beer andcigarettes and all kinds of shit
to like not feel empty, and Idon't smoke cigarettes anymore
either.
So that's good, but I didn'tknow.
You gave that up too.
Yeah, like five months ago.
I haven't had a cigarette forprobably five months, wow.
So, yeah, I'm doing work, I'mtrying.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
I've almost gone mental a few times but tried to
write some heavy breakdownsinstead but this, I'll tell this
story and if you tell me toomit it, I will.
But you came here last year andI was just like dude, you know,
you come to a podcast, youspend your money to come here
and stuff, it's whatever.
I'll just like dude.
You know you come to a podcast,you spend your money to come
here and stuff, it's whatever.
I'll feed you, I'll give yousome beers.
(45:59):
What do you want?
You're just like well, give mea 12 of, like blue moon.
I was like all right, noproblem, and we grabbed blue
moon.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
We had a pretty good time that night yeah, oh yeah, I
was already drinking before,but that's the thing you came to
the garage and you're like dude, I was so nervous about this
podcast.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
I've been over at the bar drinking, you know just
trying to chill out.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I'm learning how to not get anxious yeah, and cope
with that anxiety withoutexactly and it's been really
hard for some situations and Ihaven't put myself in some
situations right still and justforewarning anybody that listens
to this.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
I have had those conversations with zach like hey
, do I need to not have the beerout?
Do I kind of not like have haveit around?
You is because you admitted tome last year when I started
putting on the, the dtwproduction, the metal shows and
stuff we did, you were like dude, I really wanted to be there.
I just wasn't ready to be backin a bar at that time yeah, no,
(47:01):
I definitely wasn't it, it tookand that's and that's totally,
and I have gone to more showsand stuff and bars.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I mean I really don't go to them because I just don't
care for a lot of the musicsometimes.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
But but even the show we went to the other night
because I was like, well, you'reriding with us, I don't want to
drink around you if you're notcool.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
He was like dude, I go to bars all the time, I just
don't drink yeah, okay, it'slike it doesn't bother me and
it's honestly been really goodfor me, like the first few shows
.
I went too sober, I just stoodthere, you know, feeling awkward
wondering how to feel withoutsomething there to tell you how
to feel yeah, and like I noticedduring this last show, I was
(47:45):
able to kind of just be a littlemore free, and even with that,
I was feeling more free but alsoself-conscious at the same time
.
You know, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Well, at any time you would have told me like, dude,
this is too much, and we'd havegotten the hell out of there,
like that wouldn't have been anissue at all.
Oh, it was never likeoverwhelming for me, but like
you, never seemed like you wereuncomfortable like just being
there and being around it, whichis which is cool in itself,
because then you have found away to like hang out with
(48:19):
friends and family that you knowdo that kind of thing and and
not have to feel like, well, Igotta stay away from them right
now I can honestly say itdoesn't bother me to be around
people that drink.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I mean it would if I saw somebody acting the way that
I used to act yeah, you'd haveto get away from that.
I have been in that situationand it's like you know, the
drunk idiot at the bar.
We've all been there.
I was usually always, andthat's another thing I'm
noticing.
Now that I'm sober and I goplaces, I I like look around and
(48:55):
I'm like there's really notthat many people in here that
are like drunk.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Completely hammered yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
And I in my mind back then I was thinking like well,
everybody's up, like it's aparty, you know.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But literally no.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Like.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
I'm looking around, there's, you know, a guy or two,
that's like they're feelinggood, but they're not outside
their mind no, and it's justlike yeah, I mean, but like for
me at the end of my alcoholism,like I would be going into bars
and like passing out in barstools or hitting on people.
(49:36):
I shouldn't be hitting on andjust like doing crazy things,
you know cause, I was justreally sad.
It's basically all it comesdown to.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah, but you, you learn how to process those
feelings and healthy ways ofprocessing those feelings
instead of dulling thosefeelings.
I think that, especially for me, you know, when I needed pretty
much I pretty much neededanxiety meds to get through the
(50:07):
day at a certain part of my lifeand I think once I accepted the
fact that the medicine wasgoing to help me cope with the
byproduct of my anxiety but itwasn't going to help me fix my
anxiety as far as like yeah, youcan numb like my nerves to a
(50:30):
certain extent, but the reasonI'm uncomfortable in this
situation is maybe that needsmore attention than what I'm
feeling right now.
Like, maybe you know, we're alsofocused on feelings instead of
figuring out what's causing thefeelings like why do you feel
that way?
why, why is the damage there?
(50:50):
And not that it's all damage,but like why, why?
Why is this part of me here?
You know, why do I need to dolethat part in order to deal with
it?
And I'm not saying that'severybody's experience, I'm just
saying that was my experience.
Was, um, getting off of anxietymeds was a lot harder than
(51:11):
anything that I had done for avery, very long time.
Just like I'm feeling this waybecause of this.
Now I need to go deal with it.
Now, the reason that they cameinto my life was because I had
small children and I didn't knowhow to really deal with my
anxiety and the things I wasfeeling at that time and I
(51:34):
didn't want them coming home orremembering me as a monster,
right.
So, like I had to kind of calmdown Hulk a little bit so that
when, um, I felt like I wasready to come out of that, I
could uh, I like Hulk is stillthere.
He's always going to be there.
It's just like I'm doingeverything I can to just kind of
(51:56):
keep them at arm's length, youknow, because nothing good ever
happens when Hulk comes out.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
You ever noticed that ?
I definitely notice it.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
I think it's about letting the whole come out in a
healthy way Healthy yeah.
That's what metal is, andthat's one reason it's awesome,
I agree no, this has been veryinteresting conversation.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
We bounced around a lot of different places but uh,
yeah, it's a it's a lotdifferent from a lot of
conversations we've had in thepast, because it's like, you
know, you're kind of lettingyourself go to those places now
and and and work through it anddeal with it and and you know we
(52:43):
all go through that Like you're.
You're being open about it andsaying that like I'm doing this
to do this, and I think that'scommendable, because a lot of
people are trying to workthrough their stuff and act like
it doesn't exist, right?
You know, it's like we all have.
We all have our flaws, we allhave our um things that we deal
(53:07):
with.
We all have our quirks thatmake us who we are, and
sometimes we're afraid to showit, um, because of how other
people react to that oh yeah,definitely, you know and so we
either keep ourselves from goingthat path or we become
something else, sometimes thatwe're not so proud of, right.
(53:31):
So no, now that you've kind ofnow that I've pushed this part
of myself to the side've likehad a passion to do music like
this and play guitar sure beloud and just rock the couch.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
So I know staying sober is gonna just continue to
like help with the music andyeah, I just I am really
thankful for the life I'm tryingto build and that I've so far
been able to build absolutelywhere can people find this music
(54:25):
that you're putting out?
Right now it's only going to beon youtube, okay but my page is
uh zach zen.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
So you've pretty much buried Zach Sabbath and you've
reincarnated Zach Zenith at thispoint.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
Yes, I've done a different stage name.
I guess you could say and aZenith is like basically a
conclusion, like a magnificentconclusion.
There you go, like amagnificent conclusion.
So like there you go.
I feel like I'm working towardsthat, like musically to do
(55:00):
something.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
That's the best thing that I've ever done, you can do
, and that brings you enjoymentand excitement.
So, no, cool dude, we'll uh,we'll post those up, we'll share
those and go check it out onyoutube, the zach zena stuff.
We'll go ahead and put up some,some links and stuff to that,
but no awesome conversation,real conversation.
(55:25):
Those are the kind of thingsthat we're going to hear around
here a little more often,because, you know, we all got
our issues.
Yeah, man.
And we all learned how to workthrough them and if someone
hearing your story through thispodcast is going to help them
with their story, then like thiswas all worth it at the end of
the day.
I agree.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
And I will say at one point, like I was about to just
stop like sharing stuff becausethere were people that held
that against me too, you know.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
But the amount of people that have come up to me
and said that I've like inspiredthem in some way has been a lot
more, and so I'm just kind of Ikeep that in the back of my
mind Like it means something tosomebody.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
Absolutely I keep that in the back of my mind,
Like it, it means something tosomebody.
So, absolutely no.
I couldn't think of a betterplace to to end this.
So, yeah, go check out Zachstuff on YouTube.
Um, Zach's pretty much an openbook.
So if you hit him up onInstagram or Facebook or
something and and you know, wantto talk to him about what he's
doing, uh, what he's beenthrough, and have any questions
(56:36):
for him, you know I'm sure he'llbe more than happy to chat with
you and we will go from there,Yep, Thanks.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Travis, all right no-transcript.
We'll be right back.
(01:25):
I've seen Killillswitch oncebefore.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I've seen him twice actually.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Did you get to see him with Howard or with Jesse?
Both times, jesse both times.
Yeah, that sucks I like Jesse,but there's just something about
Howard's vocals.
I don't know.
He's a stud Hands and feetbeyond anybody, unfortunately
including Jesse, and it's notoften that you see a band like
(01:53):
they go back to their originalsinger and people miss the guy
that replaced him.
Yeah, for sure I think it'sawesome.
But yeah, especially, I want tosee Kublai Khan on that tour.
Really really bad, they'rereally popular.
And like they're still kind ofon the upswing.
It seems like at our age we'reseeing bands that are.
It was like the other night atthe Day to Remember in August
(02:16):
Burns Red.
You know they're.
I won't, I don't want to saythey're on the downswing, but
like their hype train was what?
10-15?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
years ago like definitely.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
You know, they weren't, they were still very
very good.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
They ended on came out in like 2009 or 8.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, downfall of us all and that was like one of
their biggest but kublai khan'sone of those bands that are like
still on the upswing.
I think that's so popular.
With the funny thing the othernight at that show that we were
at, you're like man, I was kindof expecting more kids to be
here.
I'm like dude, we were the kids, I know.
(02:53):
You know, it was just kind ofweird to think about it that way
.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
After I said it, I kind of that's true, and for me
it's like a day to remember wassuch a huge part of like the
music I listened to growing up.
I don't really realize that noteverybody listened to them.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
That's fair.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah so.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
And then when you're growing up in that crowd and
you're listening to that kind ofmusic, you're all talking about
it all the time.
You don't think about the factthat nobody else was really
listening to it other than yourclique.
Right For sure, the fact thatnobody else was really listening
to it other than your click,you know, right for sure.
But I am here with mr zachcaywood and I actually I had a
doctor's appointment in peoriatoday and pulled up the old
(03:36):
episode probably for the best, Ihope no, it was.
It was a cool episode.
It was cool.
To reminisce it, it was Augusttime last year.
We were leading up toTimberfest, the second one,
timberfest 2 Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
So it's been a little over a year since I've been in
here.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not a lot to changedown here, just a few more band
posters.
But you know, right, it comeswith the territory.
But you had kind of wentthrough on that first episode
talked about.
You know, grew up inBlandinsville, not too far from
(04:13):
here, and played baseball andeverything and then once you
figured out how to pick up aguitar, you never really looked
back, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And it's been a rollercoaster ride ever since.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah definitely yeah, it's been a roller coaster ride
ever since.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, definitely.
I've really been rekindled withmy love of playing the electric
guitar lately because after Igot sober from alcohol I started
to be able to feel the joy Ihad um playing guitar again and
(04:46):
like I picked it up and I'm like, all right, I'm supposed to be
doing this makes sense.
I should have been doing thisall along yeah, that's the
biggest thing about like gettingsober was all the things that I
neglected to do because I wasdoing other things Because yeah,
(05:08):
you were partying, yeah, orspending time here or there
doing different things.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's part of it.
When did you decide because Ipartied with you at Timberfest
last year, you know yeah, whendid you decide that, like, this
is what I've got to do, this iswhat I'm gonna do, and then, and
then decided to just go throughwith it uh, truthfully, I'll
just tell a story that kind oflike yeah, it's it don't ever at
(05:37):
any point, but if any pointlike I'm stepping on toes or I'm
pitching a nerve, just tell meto kick rocks.
Dude an, I'm honestly an openbook.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I don't really like to hide.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
No, and that's one of the things I like about you.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I'm not embarrassed or ashamed.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And I have had those feelings about things about
myself before in the past andyou know, having like guilt or
shame or embarrassment of thingsthat you've done, that's really
no way to live.
Guilt or shame or embarrassmentof things that you've done,
that's really no way to live.
So but yeah, like I think itwas november 23rd would have
(06:12):
been the last day I drank okay,so you're talking like two
months after timber fest last,yeah, yeah and I was watching
sean griffith play music at thegolf course.
But the morning before that Ihad already drank like a whole
bottle of whiskey and I gotthere it was like 1 o'clock in
(06:33):
the afternoon.
I was really hammered and otherthings and I like passed out at
the bar for a second andsomebody there called someone in
my family and of course theyshowed up there to pick me up
and take me home and you knowthat's never a great feeling.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
That's not a great feeling.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
No, it's one thing if you call your family, member
and be like hey I had a few toomany, could you?
you know, but when someone elseis like come get your boy and
then at that time I was stillliving at my mother's house, you
know, and it's like I getdropped off there at my mother's
(07:16):
house and it was just likeeverything just hit me and it's
like I cannot do this anymore,like this is not the life that I
want to live, right, like thisis honestly embarrassing, you
know.
So, yeah, that was the first,that's all it takes sometimes,
(07:37):
uh, yeah, thanksgiving is likemy first actual like day, sober,
sober.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So that'll be a year that's awesome coming
thanksgiving that's not an easydecision to make.
I mean, we talked about alittle bit of it the other day
where you had said that you know, I've that, that you're pretty
much doing stuff on your own.
Now you know you're playingyour guitar, you're doing this
(08:06):
and doing that.
I was like well, with alifestyle like this, um, you
know you gotta cut ties.
Sometimes you gotta sever umcertain friendships or certain
relationships.
You know that probably dependedon that being drunk all the
time.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Oh, definitely you know the vibe or the group or I
can honestly say that, likebeing an alcoholic, I would
choose my friends around likewho would let me and they'd be
an alcoholic, you know, I meanso now that I'm not, I don't
really have the same connectionwith those people, and that's
(08:45):
all right.
It's not that I don't careabout them anymore, it's just
like I'm trying to do otherthings and go to the bar
utilizing that time towards umthis sweet ep you're gonna drop,
which is yeah, you know, we'regonna try to push a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
No, like he played a couple of tracks for me and I
thought it sounded.
I thought it sounded legitbecause you kind of got a vibe
to it.
That's like I said it's.
It's got its parts that aremellow enough to play like at a
community center or somethinglike that, and people be like
wow, you guys were heavy, youknow.
But you know it's enough tokind of make those people kind
(09:24):
of on the edge of their seat butit's still hard enough to keep.
Like the metal hardcore folkslike interested.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I think it's got a sweet vibe to it.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Honestly, not a lot of actual thought went into
writing the songs.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
It was more of just like letting whatever came out
come out, like like hear a lickor a part, and then build off of
that.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Or do you?
Um, for the most part, thefirst thing I do is I choose a
speed, yeah, and then I startwith a click track and I play
until I have like a riff that Ilike, that I want to start with,
and then, honestly, I just keepbuilding from that.
Um, when I'm recording my riffs,a lot of times, like I'll know,
(10:11):
the riff is coming to an end ofwhere I want that part to end,
so I'll purposely jump to arandom spot in the next section
to like start, and thatsometimes in the next section,
to like start, and thatsometimes doesn't work out, but
a lot of times you end up in areally cool place, yeah, to
start, that you might not havestarted if you were actually
(10:34):
thinking about where you want tostart, yeah, and so it's like
um, happy mistakes, I guess,like sometimes are the coolest
parts to tracks.
Yeah, like you accidentallyplay a sour note but it just
feeds back just right and itmakes a really cool sound like.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I really like that part of making music because
that's like really organic, youknow yeah, and you've talked
about your influences on, on thelast podcast, you're, you know
you're randy rhodes shreddingand then you're, I know, dime
bag's a huge, huge influence ona lot of what you like to do,
dime bag is definitely myfavorite lead guitar player.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
James hepfield is probably my favorite guitar
player overall.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
He's the man.
You don't do it for.
As long as they've been doingit, then, like not have
something figured out.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Right for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
You know, and they've gotten by with some interesting
songs and albums, but peoplebuy them.
So they were just showingvideos of that jackass grabbing
the ball out of that dude'sglove.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
What was he?
Thinking the hell was hethinking Just the look on his
face.
He just looked like dumb.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
You know, you just look at him and he's just like
it's funny when a Yankees fan'sdown there doing that to a
Dodgers player and other Yankeefans are like yelling at him and
pulling him off Like you can'tdo that, dude.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Your own side is telling you you're an idiot,
you're an idiot.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, a lot of times, and that's just life in general
.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I've been told that I was usually.
They were usually right.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
What else you been doing as far as are you still
fishing a lot?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
no.
I haven't been fishing thatmuch.
Really.
All I have been doing islearning about, like, the
recording process.
I'm doing a lot of videos andstuff for studios, like trying
to figure out how all theequipment works, because there's
like so much equipment thatcomes to like mixing a track
(12:52):
Absolutely.
You know EQs, compressors, allthis other stuff, and I could
barely run a computer when Istarted this demo.
I'm not kidding.
No no, I hear you.
I've only ever had one computerin my life, so and?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
if you want a software that's overwhelming,
just start trying to find, likethe intricate ways you can
manipulate a track on arecording software.
Yeah, you know it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean I got music out coming out, but it was
definitely a huge learningcurve to get to that point.
So I think the next album isgoing to be like I want the next
album to be more of like a realalbum and not a demo that I
(13:39):
take, you know, a really goodamount of time, like mixing the
tracks, mastering, getting theguitar tones that I want, the
bass tones, drum sounds, allthose things, Because like
that's what makes a really highquality good track is sounds
that work good together.
(14:00):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Finding similar tones , but making them sound
different in their own way.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, yeah so it's uh , I really enjoy it and it's one
of the only things I've everreally been able to like focus
on and pay attention.
So I know it's, I know it'ssomething good for me if I can
actually pay attention to it andlearn about it is it like
youtube videos or tutorials?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
yeah okay, a lot of youtube videos.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I watch a lot of rick beato videos he's a producer
and songwriter and stuff, buthis videos are really good.
A lot of information in there.
Um, I watch this thing calledtone talk.
It's got dave friedman and theyjust talk about guitar
amplifiers.
They've worked for famousguitarists so they talk about
(14:50):
their setups, things like that.
I like to watch making albumsvideos.
Periphery has four.
I think they're kind of behindthe scenes of when they recorded
their albums and it's gotcandid videos.
(15:11):
It's cool.
It connects you closer to theband.
It makes you feel closer tothem.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Every band's a little bit different in how they go
about it.
I remember watching those kindof things on the uh, you know,
kind of the behind the scenes ofof lincoln park's meteora and
shit.
They would write hundreds ofsongs, oh yeah, you know, and
they'd only pick like the creamof the crop to choose from.
And then they would pick fromthat.
(15:40):
So it makes you wonder, youknow, when I hear reworked,
remaster, never released, like Idon't usually get really
excited about it.
With most bands I think it'sjust a like okay, that song
sucked enough not to make yourfirst couple albums, you know.
So I kind of I kind of ignoreit.
But when it comes to lincolnpark stuff it's like oh yeah,
(16:01):
because these guys had whatseemed like thousands of songs
in the mix.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And they wrote all their songs in the studio too,
which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, you know, it really is how they went about
doing that.
And then we had a difference ofopinion about the new chick
singer of Linkin Park.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, oh, she's pretty good.
I'll give it to her, but itjust does not sound like lincoln
park to me no, and I thinkthat's the weird part, is I?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I think the world accepted that, like we're never
gonna hear chester.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Obviously we didn't have much choice, but I don't
know man, they can do AI nowthey can, they could put him up
there in holographic form andjust.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
That's so creepy.
He's right there, isn't thatcreepy as hell?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
It is.
You're never living in reallife again.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
You could go on for days talking about the
creepiness of AI, oh I know.
Go on for days talking about,like, the creepiness of ai, oh I
know.
Yeah, it's crazy that there'sdrones and stuff out there with
ai that they program to blowthemselves up and they're just
like nah, I don't feel likedoing that today you know, yeah,
I mean, I read some stuff on ita couple years ago, so no, I
(17:19):
can't point out the exactfreaking article, so eat me if
you call me out on it.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
But but it's going to now all five of you to listen
to the podcast I don't know, Ijust yeah, maybe we have seen
too many bad movies about ai,but it just doesn't seem.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
It seems too terminator like it's always a
robot coming to kill us all.
Man.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
And I think like technology is advancing so fast,
dude, like it's going to be notime, and I think that with
people's like mental health too,I absolutely agree, trying to
adjust to technology?
We cannot.
Our brain can't adjust towhat's happening around us as
(18:09):
fast as it's happening around us.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
We're creating things smarter than us, which?
In itself is a really weirdconcept.
Yeah, we are creating things tobe smarter than us.
It'll be the Matrix before weknow it.
Maybe we're already in theMatrix, maybe we're already in
the matrix.
Maybe we're already in thematrix, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, you don't want to get me started on this, I
kind of do.
Everybody will be logging out.
Everybody.
Get your tinfoil hats on.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It's going to get weird.
Mel Gibson's about to put thecollar back on.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I don't know.
I guess you could call me aconspiracy theorist, but at what
point am I just telling thetruth here?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I should get you and Steve Moe in the same room
talking conspiracy theorist.
We'd be here all night.
The last time I podcast withhim he's just like dude, yeah,
it's zach.
Zach got a puppy.
What that's weird.
It's like.
Why is that weird?
He goes, I don't know it.
Just he just randomly got apuppy, was that?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
was that part of the?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
boy, charlie boy, because he came around not long
after the whole decision to gosober.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
He did.
Charlie's never seen me drunk,which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
That's an interesting motivator.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It is because I don't want to go.
So I'll tell you this this iskind of weird.
No, not at all.
When I lived with my friend,she had a dog and I noticed
about her dog like wouldn't likeme.
She would kind of hide from me,even if I was trying to be nice
(19:54):
to it.
She just could tell that I wassmelling different than I
normally would, yeah, and likewhen I'm sober, she was kind of
like I was like one of herfavorite people, you know, yep,
so that's like one thing.
I always do try to payattention to how the animals
(20:16):
respond to me, like my dog andlike if I'm not taking care of
myself, which means I'm nottaking care of myself, which
means I'm not taking care of himthat well, he starts acting up,
Gotcha Makes sense.
And then I know it's like, okay,I need to focus, like I need to
take him on more walks or Ineed to do get out of this house
(20:38):
.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
He's your therapy dog , or whatever.
You know, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And when I do that, it helps me too.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You know he's going through your training program.
You know that, in my opinion,is the very definition of a
therapy dog oh yeah, he's.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
He's my best friend.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Honestly, man, I'd be lost without him well, it gives
you something to look forwardto coming home.
It gives you something to youknow.
Yeah, you're not just laying onthe couch watching tv anymore.
You're laying there with yourdog right, which you know.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
There's just something about that I've been
getting in these bones from thepet store.
They're like this big, right,right.
He ate the entire thing in like30 minutes today and I'm like
how I never had got him one ofthose and I wasn't sure if he
was actually supposed to beeating it or not.
But hopefully he was.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I thought it was just something he was gonna chew on
for a while, but it was gone wehad some piggies for the dogs,
like in the last week or so, andyeah, they lasted like a day
yeah, I can't make treats oranything last around him.
And Cricket it's my new dog.
He's still got sharp puppyteeth.
(21:54):
I was like, how is your teethstill this sharp after chewing
on a damn bone all day?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, Charlie's also like he's learning how to be a
sound engineer too, because Ilike to mix you start whining.
If something's off, I useheadphones usually but, for the
most part, I mix with studiomonitors because I don't like to
have headphones on all the time.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Basically, you know I do the same thing when I edit
walk around.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I can whatever, but I've noticed like there's some
times when I'll be mixingsomething, I hit just the right
frequency or sound frequency.
I look over at him and his earswill like perk up, yeah, and
it's like all right, I got it,that got it.
That's the good stuff rightthere.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's the one, Charlie Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
That's the take.
That's awesome.
He just sits there, lights acigar and he says do another
take.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Slow key becoming your like colonel to your Elvis.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, most of the time I am just like on YouTube and
I'm watching, learning stuff,learning, trying to learn man.
Uh, I like watching videos withRick Rubin in them, because
he's like my favorite producer.
Uh, yeah, I mean, that's whatall the great people did.
(23:24):
They.
So, yeah, I mean, that's whatall the great people did.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
They found people to like kind of look up to and copy
them, yeah, mentors, and kindof set the standard for
themselves to see if they couldcome anywhere close to matching
it, or at least try, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I think honestly, if you just make something that you
actually think is good, right,that's really.
And if you genuinely do thinkit's good, then it doesn't
really matter what other peoplethink about it.
It's very true.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
It's very true.
You were kind of talking aboutthat the other night, um headed
to the show.
Uh, how that kind of correlatedwith your sobriety as well.
As now you're like yeah, I knowthat when I'm intoxicated I
cannot play as well as I do whenI'm sober.
He goes, my brain tells me Ican definitely you know, my
(24:19):
brain tells me it soundsfreaking awesome.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I mean, I've literally fallen off the stage
like drunk before.
Yeah, I mean I'm pretty.
I was pretty good at hiding howsevere of an issue that I had
with it.
Yeah, have still.
I mean that's a but.
Um, it is what it is.
(24:42):
Everybody has something that'sprobably holding them back.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You just kind of got any kind of hope that people you
know just kind of face it headon like you have you know,
because from what I know youhaven't been to any like aa
meetings.
I haven't, but I want to youknow you've talked about.
You know, maybe talking tosomebody about some stuff, but
you know you've never saidanything about.
You know maybe I need to getchecked into this or that.
(25:10):
You're just hey, I've got thisgoing on and I'm going to figure
it out.
You know, you've always beenreally honest about it.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, I mean I had a pretty strange childhood, so I
do like talk to a therapist forthat I just started and it has
started to help me.
Um, yeah, it's some.
That is something I wish Iwould have done a long time ago,
(25:39):
like when I was a kid.
Actually is to go and talk to acounselor figure out how to
process some of the stuff I'vehad trust issues with people for
my whole life and like I'venever been able to have a
healthy back and forthrelationship with people because
I, um, or that they're gonnalike be there for me but then
(26:01):
leave.
Yeah, um.
So yeah, it's just workingthrough a lot and, honestly,
just talking about it helps it,does it really does?
(26:22):
I mean, I never thought it didall right you know like we were.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You know you grow up.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
You know tough it out , man it up rub some dirt in it.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You know which, to an extent, is not toxic?
Masculinity, like all right toan extent, you know, teach boys
to be men, but like also teachthem how to like feel and to
think about things, rather thanjust shove it stiff upper lip,
yeah yeah, you know, and I'vealways been like an emotional
(26:56):
person man, my whole life, whenI was a kid.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
So like if somebody would say like oh, boys, don't
cry.
Like how does that make alittle boy feel if he cries a
lot?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Right, yeah.
Not great Gives you a complex,Gives you like a yeah, a false
sense of what it is to actuallybe a man.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Sure, that is another thing.
Is like I am trying to figureout, like what kind of man that
I want to be.
It's like I am trying to figureout like what kind of man I
want to be, not like what I'vebeen taught men are, because I
was taught a bunch of bad things, you know Fighting, drinking
and whatever.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, but that's not really what aligns with my.
That's more what I would.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with being manly.
I don't think there's anythingwrong about being tough or
strong or buff or you knowhonestly.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
For me, I think the most masculine thing a man can
do is just be himself.
Yep, if he wants to wear pink,he can like if he wants to have
long hair, he can like.
That's something to me that'salways with my head is like oh,
only girls wear pink, boys wearblue.
(28:13):
Girls only have long hair.
Yeah, girls only wear this typeof clothing.
It's like, well, who decidedthat?
Right, you know like I want tolook at things and say like this
is the choice I want to make,not the choice that somebody
made a hundred years ago I.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I think in today's world we like walk a very fine
line between worrying aboutbeing yourself or worrying about
what people think is decent ormodest.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, you know For sure.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
And you want to be.
You know you should want to bea person that can be themselves
but still respectable aroundother people.
Right, and I think that you canaccomplish that, regardless of
you know, everybody hasdifferent love.
Everybody has different viewspolitically, you, socially,
economically, whatever and ifyou can have those different
(29:08):
views from one another withoutlike hating one another, oh yeah
, and I think we've lost a lotof that over the years well,
it's easy to be mean to peopleon a computer.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
That's a big part of it yeah, and also people get on
the computer and they justcompare themselves to everyone
else.
I do it.
I mean, a 16 year old girl getson there on TikTok and she sees
all these rich, sure 16 yearold girls and she thinks her
life is the worst life of alltime, yeah.
(29:43):
And it's like dude, your life,life is awesome, but you're
comparing it to like somethingthat's not even realistic, not
even you know.
And I'm not saying that youcan't look at those people and
possibly have goals of havingthose things, but if that's all
you care about is having fancystuff or being famous or
(30:07):
whatever like, Right, you'remissing the mark.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
That's a very bad mindset.
I would agree with that.
There's nothing wrong withbeing successful, influential,
rich.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
There's nothing wrong with those things.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
I think, if that's what dominates your, if that's
what dominates your motivationin your, in your psyche, and
like I think when you're willingto hurt other people to get it,
that's when it becomes tiresome.
Or hurt yourself in order to getit, yeah, there's nothing wrong
with hustling or overachievingor working hard, but like if you
(30:47):
are way too hard on yourself orif you're a perfectionist and
nothing is right, like you'regonna, you're gonna suffer right
yeah, I mean I've always I'vebeen a person that I'm not gonna
like compromise my characterfor money, sure, like I'm not
gonna do some, and that doesn'tmean I wouldn't do something
(31:09):
illegal it just means I wouldn'tdo something 20 bucks is 20
bucks but um, yeah, like Ialways ask myself like mostly
about what other people aredoing, because I see people
(31:30):
doing shady shit for money allthe time, sure, and I'm like
would I do that?
Well, no, I can see how a personwould want to do that I know.
Yeah, exactly, and it's likethere are times where you have
to make a choice and it's likeyou gotta make the choice that's
(31:51):
gonna help you sleep at nightexactly regardless, regardless
of what is in your bank accountlike make sure when you look in
the mirror you don't dislike theperson that's looking back at
you, and that you can get anight's rest knowing that you
did something you know, decentthat day.
Right, you know or maybe noteven decent a lot of people try
(32:14):
to justify things.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
They do, you know, but absolutely by saying oh it's
, this is actually really goodthing and it's's like come on,
You're like just turning itaround because you feel bad
about doing whatever you'redoing.
But money makes people crazy.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Reality makes people crazy too, and people nowadays
are working really hard tochange their realities rather
than deal with the one they'reliving in.
I think For sure, man, but weall find ways to get through it.
We all find ways to deal withthe things we're dealing with,
and sometimes it's with a guitarand a dog and sometimes it's
(33:01):
with.
You know some real worldsituations that you could have a
nearby death experience.
You could have had a verynegative experience where you
passed out somewhere and didn'tknow where you were or what
happened to you.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Or you know, there's all sorts of scenarios out there
where maybe you didn't make thebest choices and you are, where
you are, scenarios you know forme well, I mean for everybody
really you know, and you caneither make an excuse or you can
find a way to work through itthat was my biggest thing is,
(33:38):
I've always kind of had like a Ican't do better, any better
than this mentality, yeah, whichcomes from like a place of I'm
scared to go out and do thisshit.
There you go Straight up.
That's where it comes from, andso that's the thing.
I'm trying to get out there andplay music and actually start
(34:02):
living life again.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Well, and doing things that you, you know that
you're going to be proud oflater yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Even if this demo sucks, I'm always going to
remember it because it's thevery first one I've ever done on
my own right, so it has a lotof, you know, just for that
reason, like importance to meand the stuff you were going
through while you were writingit you know, there's no words.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
There's no vocals, but like you can feel the raw
energy that that you're gettingthrough.
You know, just each day, justfind a reason to get up and do
something.
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, and I mean that is honestly one reason why I
wanted to leave vocals off of it, because I do feel like I can
talk with the guitar, Like Idon't necessarily need to have
my human voice on it Someonetelling the story for you
Exactly.
I do still want to make videosthat go along that are kind of
(35:03):
themed for each song.
That's an idea that I have, but, um, yeah, it's just about like
letting the music talk.
I don't absolutely.
Anybody can listen to it andthey can take and interpret it
in whatever way they want to Ionly drink one cup.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I only let myself have one cup a day anymore.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Well, when I quit drinking, I did kind of use
coffee as a crutch to get me offof it, because I mean you can
drink.
If you drink like four pots ofcoffee, you'll get some kind of
buzz.
It's not a good thing to do,but like if you're.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
It's a much healthier buzz, naturally, then.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Right.
So yeah, I mean, I'm only downto one cup a day now I've kicked
it back, but I can only handleabout one cup a day there is
times like if I feel like I needto drink, I will get.
I'll go up to the gas stationand get coffee.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Because it does help.
I think the warmth of it iskind of calming and that's a,
like I said, kind of a naturalstimulus.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, it's still which is debatable, you know
still not good for you.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Like I know that there's times where I've drank
too much coffee because my likenervous system gets all out of
whack, like my hands will that'swhy I have to stay in one.
One cup, right, yeah my fingerswill get really cold and then
my back will be sweating or mychest will.
It's really weird.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
If I drink too much coffee.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
yeah, it just like dysregulates your body like too
much caffeine does.
I'm like a walking poster childfor what not to do, because,
like, seriously.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Drink enough coffee for my back my back to sweat.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's like if I don't live extremely healthy, I just
have all these health problemsRight Straight up and it's.
I hate it, but it's it'steaching me how to live a
healthy, healthier life.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
And coming from what I came from, like dude when I
was 19, 18, like I barely atefood.
I lived basically off alcoholand maybe a potato every once in
a while.
So yeah, I mean now I like toeat healthy food, I like to cook
(37:34):
my own food.
Right, that's another thing,like what you put into your body
man affects so much aboutabsolutely mental health.
It's actually insane, and I meanjust like get two plants and
water one with water and water,one with beer and see what
(37:54):
happens.
The one you are with beer isn'tgonna be doing too hot no,
probably not yeah, so oh, mine'sgot a taproot that enjoys beer
from time to time.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
So, yeah, but no, I I get it and like I've been super
happy for you in this process,like um, because you'll post
from time to time something onsocial media where you're like
you know, I've done this, I'vedone that, it's helped me cope,
(38:28):
and other people can see thatand be like okay, you know, see
how he's kind of doing hisprocess and can kind of go off
of that.
But there are some folks outthere that are like well,
sober's the new thing, you knowyeah, and can become obnoxious
about it, I know.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
And I definitely try not to be that way.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I don't want to honestly tell anybody what to do
with their lives, because Iwouldn't want anybody to tell me
what to do with mine.
All I do is just share myexperience, how it has helped me
Right, because it has helped mea lot in life.
And not everybody is a ragingalcoholic and I know that.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, we had that conversation as well.
It was like I've got a buddy inmy life who he has won two
beers, he has 20, you know, andit's once he takes off, it's
like the Daytona 500, you know,oh, I know very well.
(39:34):
And you had related to that.
You're like, yeah, you know,for me I can have one or two or
three beers with dinner orsomething, and I'm good.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, see, I'm pretty jealous of that, but I've never
been able to be like that.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I will never learn how to be like that either.
Yeah, and I know guys that arelike that.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Right, I will never learn how to be like that either
.
Yeah, and I know I know guysthat are like that too.
Where it's, you either dealwith it in a few different ways,
like like you have where you'reokay, like I'm not even gonna
cross that line, because once Icross that line, we're in it for
the long haul oh, it's been alot of trial and error, like
I've tried to quit drinking orbe a person who could, like
(40:16):
limit it, limit my drinking, andit never gets limited well, the
folks I know nowadays that havethat mentality and still drink,
it's just like they have toknow that they've got nothing
going on the next day.
They have to know that um.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Oh, it ruins it for me, you know it ruined days.
It could ruin a week, right, ifI really got after it really
partied hard like I could besick for literally a week.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
But most of the guys I know that deal with that are
just like you know, I, I.
They don't drink during theweek because they know that one
and two means 20.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
You know and and I get that, and I can be that guy
too, I I'll, I'll roll for 20 orwhatever, but like I can also
flip into that mode where I'vegot to work tomorrow, I've got
stuff going on.
I got to do something with thegirls.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
It's like, okay, you only need a couple and then
you're, you're done, like Ifortunately have that switch
yeah, you're lucky because, likefor me, it's like I want to
push the limits of everything,everything, every single thing
that I do, so I'll.
I'll be thinking like here's anexample like I might drink like
(41:38):
six beers and feel okay to goto work the next day, so the
next night I would drink seven,the next night I would drink
eight, and it's just like itkeeps building.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
And then the next thing you know, you've got a
tolerance and you need 20 beers.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, I'm drinking 20 beers a night like what no man,
but like you just put it interms of like you were gonna
drink 20 pepsis.
How ridiculous does that?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
sound dude like I couldn't do it.
I couldn't drink 20 pepsis.
I don't know, it's yeah they.
Even if I liked pepsi, Icouldn't drink 20 of them, you
know no I don't know that Icould drink 20 bottles of water
in a night.
No, you can't drink 20,anything, except for something
that's like getting you prettymuch.
Yeah, that's pretty wild.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
It starts to change the way you feel.
That's what you get a hankeringcraving for.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
So, like at that point, is it enjoying the beer
or just the feeling of beingintoxicated?
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, For me it's the feeling Like I could care less
to taste it.
I get it yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
See, and I'm the kind of guy that I can walk into a
micro brew and be like, ooh, Iwant that one, that one, that
one, that one and that one.
I don't care if I get drunk, Ijust want to try those beers,
because I love beer.
See, I'm not that kind of guy.
Yeah, and trust dude, there'sso many that I run into where
it's like.
You know, either I don't likecraft brews, I just, if I'm
(43:20):
going to drink, I'm going todrink, you know.
Oh, I like the taste of them,but it's uh.
But at that point you know why.
Why are you going to go?
Buy nice beer if you can do thesame effect for 20 bucks and a
30 rack, you know?
Yeah, it's interesting when youthink about it that way.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
There's only been a couple of times that I've wanted
to drink since I've gottensober, and it's times where I
feel really depressed or like,and I'm wanting to use that to
feel better and I know that atthat point, like if I start
drinking, then it's gonna bereal bad it's gonna be bad, so I
(43:53):
haven't yet.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Uh, hopefully never will I hope you never do not to
well I, I'll take that back,like, if one day you want, if
you're just like man I wonderwhat it was like blah, blah,
blah.
And in it you say to yourselfyou know what I, maybe you want
to be able to responsibly drinka beer or something.
(44:14):
I hope that you have theopportunity to do that.
But, like, if you never do, ifyou're just like I know I'm
going to taste that thing andit's going to be a 30 rack
tonight, then I hope you neverdo right.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
No, you know, I, I can say right now that is what
it would be for me and I don't,I don't want to risk it, but
that's why I don't do shots, youknow, I would, oh man, you know
, started on like no, my bad,but it's like I don't like how
(44:45):
the shot tastes.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
I just want to be manly enough to say I took a
shot, you know I like it.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I like the burn of it going down, kind of like, uh,
smoking a cigarette.
I like the feeling of inhalingthe smoke I love the feeling of
sandpaper against my lungs whenyou're an yeah, when you're an
anxious person, it's like youfeel empty inside all the time I
(45:11):
do, and that's I use beer andcigarettes and all kinds of shit
to like not feel empty, and Idon't smoke cigarettes anymore
either.
So that's good, but I didn'tknow.
You gave that up too.
Yeah, like five months ago.
I haven't had a cigarette forprobably five months, wow.
So, yeah, I'm doing work, I'mtrying.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
I've almost gone mental a few times but tried to
write some heavy breakdownsinstead but this, I'll tell this
story and if you tell me toomit it, I will.
But you came here last year andI was just like dude, you know,
you come to a podcast, youspend your money to come here
and stuff, it's whatever.
I'll just like dude.
You know you come to a podcast,you spend your money to come
here and stuff, it's whatever.
I'll feed you, I'll give yousome beers.
(45:59):
What do you want?
You're just like well, give mea 12 of, like blue moon.
I was like all right, noproblem, and we grabbed blue
moon.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
We had a pretty good time that night yeah, oh yeah, I
was already drinking before,but that's the thing you came to
the garage and you're like dude, I was so nervous about this
podcast.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
I've been over at the bar drinking, you know just
trying to chill out.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I'm learning how to not get anxious yeah, and cope
with that anxiety withoutexactly and it's been really
hard for some situations and Ihaven't put myself in some
situations right still and justforewarning anybody that listens
to this.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
I have had those conversations with zach like hey
, do I need to not have the beerout?
Do I kind of not like have haveit around?
You is because you admitted tome last year when I started
putting on the, the dtwproduction, the metal shows and
stuff we did, you were like dude, I really wanted to be there.
I just wasn't ready to be backin a bar at that time yeah, no,
(47:01):
I definitely wasn't it, it tookand that's and that's totally,
and I have gone to more showsand stuff and bars.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I mean I really don't go to them because I just don't
care for a lot of the musicsometimes.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
But but even the show we went to the other night
because I was like, well, you'reriding with us, I don't want to
drink around you if you're notcool.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
He was like dude, I go to bars all the time, I just
don't drink yeah, okay, it'slike it doesn't bother me and
it's honestly been really goodfor me, like the first few shows
.
I went too sober, I just stoodthere, you know, feeling awkward
wondering how to feel withoutsomething there to tell you how
to feel yeah, and like I noticedduring this last show, I was
(47:45):
able to kind of just be a littlemore free, and even with that,
I was feeling more free but alsoself-conscious at the same time
.
You know, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Well, at any time you would have told me like, dude,
this is too much, and we'd havegotten the hell out of there,
like that wouldn't have been anissue at all.
Oh, it was never likeoverwhelming for me, but like
you, never seemed like you wereuncomfortable like just being
there and being around it, whichis which is cool in itself,
because then you have found away to like hang out with
(48:19):
friends and family that you knowdo that kind of thing and and
not have to feel like, well, Igotta stay away from them right
now I can honestly say itdoesn't bother me to be around
people that drink.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I mean it would if I saw somebody acting the way that
I used to act yeah, you'd haveto get away from that.
I have been in that situationand it's like you know, the
drunk idiot at the bar.
We've all been there.
I was usually always, andthat's another thing I'm
noticing.
Now that I'm sober and I goplaces, I I like look around and
(48:55):
I'm like there's really notthat many people in here that
are like drunk.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Completely hammered yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
And I in my mind back then I was thinking like well,
everybody's up, like it's aparty, you know.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But literally no.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Like.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
I'm looking around, there's, you know, a guy or two,
that's like they're feelinggood, but they're not outside
their mind no, and it's justlike yeah, I mean, but like for
me at the end of my alcoholism,like I would be going into bars
and like passing out in barstools or hitting on people.
(49:36):
I shouldn't be hitting on andjust like doing crazy things,
you know cause, I was justreally sad.
It's basically all it comesdown to.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah, but you, you learn how to process those
feelings and healthy ways ofprocessing those feelings
instead of dulling thosefeelings.
I think that, especially for me, you know, when I needed pretty
much I pretty much neededanxiety meds to get through the
(50:07):
day at a certain part of my lifeand I think once I accepted the
fact that the medicine wasgoing to help me cope with the
byproduct of my anxiety but itwasn't going to help me fix my
anxiety as far as like yeah, youcan numb like my nerves to a
(50:30):
certain extent, but the reasonI'm uncomfortable in this
situation is maybe that needsmore attention than what I'm
feeling right now.
Like, maybe you know, we're alsofocused on feelings instead of
figuring out what's causing thefeelings like why do you feel
that way?
why, why is the damage there?
(50:50):
And not that it's all damage,but like why, why?
Why is this part of me here?
You know, why do I need to dolethat part in order to deal with
it?
And I'm not saying that'severybody's experience, I'm just
saying that was my experience.
Was, um, getting off of anxietymeds was a lot harder than
(51:11):
anything that I had done for avery, very long time.
Just like I'm feeling this waybecause of this.
Now I need to go deal with it.
Now, the reason that they cameinto my life was because I had
small children and I didn't knowhow to really deal with my
anxiety and the things I wasfeeling at that time and I
(51:34):
didn't want them coming home orremembering me as a monster,
right.
So, like I had to kind of calmdown Hulk a little bit so that
when, um, I felt like I wasready to come out of that, I
could uh, I like Hulk is stillthere.
He's always going to be there.
It's just like I'm doingeverything I can to just kind of
(51:56):
keep them at arm's length, youknow, because nothing good ever
happens when Hulk comes out.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
You ever noticed that ?
I definitely notice it.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
I think it's about letting the whole come out in a
healthy way Healthy yeah.
That's what metal is, andthat's one reason it's awesome,
I agree no, this has been veryinteresting conversation.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
We bounced around a lot of different places but uh,
yeah, it's a it's a lotdifferent from a lot of
conversations we've had in thepast, because it's like, you
know, you're kind of lettingyourself go to those places now
and and and work through it anddeal with it and and you know we
(52:43):
all go through that Like you're.
You're being open about it andsaying that like I'm doing this
to do this, and I think that'scommendable, because a lot of
people are trying to workthrough their stuff and act like
it doesn't exist, right?
You know, it's like we all have.
We all have our flaws, we allhave our um things that we deal
(53:07):
with.
We all have our quirks thatmake us who we are, and
sometimes we're afraid to showit, um, because of how other
people react to that oh yeah,definitely, you know and so we
either keep ourselves from goingthat path or we become
something else, sometimes thatwe're not so proud of, right.
(53:31):
So no, now that you've kind ofnow that I've pushed this part
of myself to the side've likehad a passion to do music like
this and play guitar sure beloud and just rock the couch.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
So I know staying sober is gonna just continue to
like help with the music andyeah, I just I am really
thankful for the life I'm tryingto build and that I've so far
been able to build absolutelywhere can people find this music
(54:25):
that you're putting out?
Right now it's only going to beon youtube, okay but my page is
uh zach zen.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
So you've pretty much buried Zach Sabbath and you've
reincarnated Zach Zenith at thispoint.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
Yes, I've done a different stage name.
I guess you could say and aZenith is like basically a
conclusion, like a magnificentconclusion.
There you go, like amagnificent conclusion.
So like there you go.
I feel like I'm working towardsthat, like musically to do
(55:00):
something.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
That's the best thing that I've ever done, you can do
, and that brings you enjoymentand excitement.
So, no, cool dude, we'll uh,we'll post those up, we'll share
those and go check it out onyoutube, the zach zena stuff.
We'll go ahead and put up some,some links and stuff to that,
but no awesome conversation,real conversation.
(55:25):
Those are the kind of thingsthat we're going to hear around
here a little more often,because, you know, we all got
our issues.
Yeah, man.
And we all learned how to workthrough them and if someone
hearing your story through thispodcast is going to help them
with their story, then like thiswas all worth it at the end of
the day.
I agree.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
And I will say at one point, like I was about to just
stop like sharing stuff becausethere were people that held
that against me too, you know.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
But the amount of people that have come up to me
and said that I've like inspiredthem in some way has been a lot
more, and so I'm just kind of Ikeep that in the back of my
mind Like it means something tosomebody.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
Absolutely I keep that in the back of my mind,
Like it, it means something tosomebody.
So, absolutely no.
I couldn't think of a betterplace to to end this.
So, yeah, go check out Zachstuff on YouTube.
Um, Zach's pretty much an openbook.
So if you hit him up onInstagram or Facebook or
something and and you know, wantto talk to him about what he's
doing, uh, what he's beenthrough, and have any questions
(56:36):
for him, you know I'm sure he'llbe more than happy to chat with
you and we will go from there,Yep, Thanks.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Travis, all right no-transcript.
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