Episode 100: The Hidden Costs of Lodge Ownership

Ever watched the sun rise over a pristine northern lake and thought, "I could do this for a living"? Before you mortgage your home and cash in your retirement savings, you need to hear the raw, unfiltered truth about what it really takes to run a fishing lodge.

Steve Niedzwiecki, former owner of Chaudière Lodge on Ontario's French River, pulls back the curtain on the reality behind the dream job. From the heart-stopping financial gamble of startup costs that can easily hit seven figures, to the exhausting cycle of staffing where relationship management becomes as important as business acumen. Steve reveals how he mortgaged everything he owned—even securing loans against his parents' property—to pursue a vision that most would call madness.

The logistics are staggering: varnishing 13 cedar-strip boats annually, navigating government compliance, managing romantic entanglements between staff members, and taking personal responsibility for every guest's experience. When a single bad water test results in skull-and-crossbones warning signs during your busiest week, or when your chef decides that frozen patties on hamburger buns are an acceptable substitute for authentic veal cutlets, the pressure can feel crushing.

Yet through it all, there's an unmistakable thread of passion that defies pure economics. As Steve puts it, "Passion must outweigh profit," because the moment you start cutting corners to save money, the entire experience unravels. The most successful lodge owners understand they're not just selling accommodation and guided fishing—they're orchestrating memories that guests will cherish for decades.

Would Steve do it all again? "Absolutely," he says without hesitation. Despite the missed family events, the 20-hour workdays, and the constant weight of responsibility, the relationships formed and experiences created made it all worthwhile. If you're contemplating this path—or simply curious about what happens behind the scenes of your favorite fishing destination—this revealing episode offers both caution and inspiration in equal measure.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
and whenever you try to include everybody staff,
guests, everybody in a, in inbuilding something that's very
special like a northern islandretreat, um, all of a sudden you
get people that care and wantto show our guests an

(00:32):
outstanding time.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
This week on the Outdoor Journal, radio Podcast
Networks.
Diaries of a Lodge Owner.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Stories of the North, with Willie and Krista
frantically setting up their newlodge venture.
I wanted to talk to you allabout the physical, financial,
emotional and environmentalcosts involved in running a
fishing lodge and temper theidea that it is a dream job and

(01:03):
replace it with real insight andrespect for the craft.
So, without further ado,welcome to the show.
Folks, for over a decade, youall know, I owned the Chaudière
Lodge and it was one of the mostexciting, trying, frustrating,

(01:28):
at times scary thing that I everdid in my life.
And I wanted to talk to you alltoday about the true costs of
running a fishing lodge.
And why don't we jump right inat the beginning and with
startup and capital and all ofthe things that you need to do

(01:54):
when you start?
And first you got to find thelocation.
Like Willie had mentioned lastweek, you've got to find the
location and there are creativeways that you can do this
without laying out a whole lotof capital.

(02:16):
Unless you have the capital tolay it out all on the line, or
you can go to the bank andyou've got the backing from a
bank to do it yourself.
You really need to eitherpartner up with somebody who has
the facility.
Maybe somebody is retiring andthey, for whatever reason, don't

(02:41):
want to sell uh, but wouldrather um, would rather lease or
partner up with you, uh, to doa um, a venture.
That way, um, you could alsothere's a lot of um, of um, I
don't know what you would callthem rent to own uh, where you
uh, you go in and you can put asmall deposit up front and the

(03:10):
owner of the place slowly sellsit to you over a few years in
transition, which is a great wayto do it, and you keep that
person working in that positionfor a little while as you
transition into the new owner,that position for a little while
as you transition into the newowner, or go to the bank, pull

(03:31):
your, your balls out and and putthem on the chopping block.
Um, that's what I did.
I mortgaged everything I had um, and I go into great detail, um
, in the earlier diaries, uhepisodes, you know in that first
10, somewhere in there we're at100, so you're going to have to
go back and look for that.

(03:52):
But there's a lot to do withthat.
And if you're starting up front, like with a piece of land, and
you have to build cabins, docks, figure out power permits,
environmental assessments,insurance.

(04:13):
You know, if you're doing that,the cost of all of that could
easily hit seven figures beforeyou open.
And that's again like I mean,depending on your situation and

(04:35):
how you want to set it up.
If you've got a buyer group oryou know it's possible, it's
very possible.
But the way I did it, I boughtan existing place and I worked
on that existing place.
So once you get that lodgefacility whether you buy it

(04:55):
outright or you're building fromthe ground up then and just to
give you an idea for cost oflodges right now I haven't
checked lately Brian Dykstra isa real estate agent specializing
in selling lodges.
Google his name D-Y-S-T-R-A, Ibelieve Brian Dykstra, and

(05:26):
you'll see.
But I I'm I'm sure that you'llfind places in Ontario, from you
know, as far South as as theFrench river to as far North as
Canora and beyond.
You'll find camps that range inprice, from you know $150,000

(05:51):
for a small camp that isbasically cabins and a
housekeeping, to multi-millions.
So once you get your locationfigured out, then you've got to
start your staffing and that wasone of the major areas that I

(06:15):
did a shit ton of learning in,because your staffing is fairly
seasonal.
I had some really great peoplewho occupied positions and come
back year after year.
Diane Restule was one.

(06:36):
God rest her soul.
She was my housekeeper, servermanager and really the rock of
Chaudière.
But and and she worked there.
She worked at Chaudière for umwell, she passed at 72 and uh

(06:58):
was working for me up untilabout uh six months before she
passed and started when she was16 at the lodge.
So she was, there was nothingthere that she did not know and
having somebody like that isextremely important.
So you know when and you knowthe, when I bought Chaudiere the

(07:24):
owner that I bought it fromJerry Noel from Indiana he told
me when I asked, is there anystaff I should keep and believe
it or not, he said no, no,there's no staff that you should
keep.
I would replace everybody whenyou've got and start with a
clean slate and this and that.

(07:45):
And I really didn't even knowtoo much about Diane.
But in my first year I run intosome managing issues with staff
and I really was green.
I didn't know how to deal with,you know, younger staff members
of the opposite sex inparticular, and I went to Diane

(08:13):
and hired or begged her to comeback and she did and it was the
best move of my business career.
At that point, and when we'retalking about staff, it's always
important for you, if you'rebuying an existing business, to

(08:34):
really I would say you need tobring on as many of the existing
staff as you can, get to knowthem and then go from there and
see who fits your vision and whodoesn't, because taking the
word of an owner who's jaded andtired, especially in this

(09:00):
business, is not good practiceat all.
You need to make your owndecisions for your vision and
I'm so, so thankful that Dianecame back and finished her
career and really her life withme, because I wouldn't have been

(09:26):
the success that I was withouther.
She was very key in the successof the show to Air Lodge.
But, like I mean so, when yougo in and you retain some good
core staff, with this type ofseasonal business you always
have a turnover and you'realways looking to hire new

(09:52):
people and I had we're not goingto talk about guides but for a
staff for the lodge.
For a staff for the lodge I wasaveraging, you know, 13 to 18

(10:14):
people at any one time toservice 40 guests and I had
usually on on a great year Iwould have my chef in place who
would return.
I had Phil Schampagee who was a.
He was, he was one of the bestman.
I loved Philly Phil.
I still do.
We're going to have to get himon the podcast.
But there was Philly Phil andMicah sous chef Micah and pastry

(10:40):
chef Micah.
I had those guys for aboutthree or four years.
And then Dave Quinney, who'sstill at Chaudiere another
excellent chef.
I had him for a couple of years.
So really, that chef positionis one of those positions that

(11:00):
once you find a good one, youreally want to try and hold on
to them.
And then I had Diane, who wasmy housekeeper, server manager
and Coleridge Cole Beeden Colecome on after Aunt Beth passed
and he became my bookings andoffice manager.

(11:25):
And I had on the dock.
I had Peter Bowles, who turnedinto a full-time guide, but Pete
, he come back for three, fouryears as a dock hand, maybe more
.
So you know, I had one um, umgreat person in each of the um

(11:51):
positions, uh, of management,like I mean.
What I mean is I had one personon the dock, usually returning,
one person in the housekeepingand serving area Another great
returning staff member I had wasJen Tryon.
She's married to Pat Tryon, whowas one of my guides as well.

(12:19):
So you know, thinking about it,I was very, very fortunate to
have a great core of returningstaff members, and then you know
we're talking about six, eightof them at most, and then you

(12:39):
got to plug in the rest of theholes, which is, at least, you
know, eight more staff members.
I would have um, um, five onthe, uh in the in the dining
room, uh, four on the dock, uh,three in the kitchen, and then
all of your guides.
You know and, and and.

(13:00):
Then, once you put these peoplein place, you've got to really
budget.
You need to figure out how muchyou can pay, what is the going
rate for the labor that you needand how do you maximize the

(13:22):
production that you get fromthese people.
And for me it was a lot aboutrelationships and leading by
example, and I just I don't knowhow I did it or I'm not sure I
can describe the ways that I didit.

(13:44):
I just know that for the mostpart, the staff respected me and

(14:13):
respected the guests, and Imade sure that there was not a
job on the island that I didn'tdo, whether it be cleaning out
the shit tanks, to jumping in atdinner service and serving, or
cooking, or running the dock, oryou know, there's just nothing
that I didn't do.
And when you do that, you buildthe respect of your staff.
And it took me a while toreally figure out how do you

(14:37):
build the respect of a youngstaff.
I was still fairly young.
I was in my 30s when, for themost part, when I owned
Chaudière still fairly young, Iwas in my thirties when, for the
most part, when I ownedChaudière, but I was hiring um
employees ranging in the agefrom, you know, 18 to 65, 70.

(14:57):
Um, so it was.
It was a tough I don't even wantto say it was tough, but you,
you lead by example and, aboveall else, respect your, your
people, yourself and your guests.

(15:18):
And one of the important thingsfor me that I learned early on
was was verbiage and how, howyou use words, because I would
never say to anybody my staff,my lodge, this is my way of

(15:41):
doing.
It ever is my way of doing itever, ever, especially when it
came to guests Like I, it wasalways our, this is our staff,
this is our lodge and wheneveryou you try to include everybody
staff, guests, everybody inbuilding something that's very

(16:07):
special like a Northern Islandretreat.
All of a sudden you get peoplethat care and want to show our
guests an outstanding time andthe rewards If you can show your

(16:29):
staff, the rewards that you getwhen you show guests an
outstanding experience and youreally feel like your part is as
important as any.
And that goes down to, again,the guys on the dock making sure

(16:50):
the boats are ready and cleanand when you can do that and
people are so, so thankful forwhat you do and they thank you
and show you their thanks Numberone in financial gratuities,

(17:10):
but number two just genuinelybeing happy and wanting to thank
you and have gotten to know youover that time.
And usually we were luckyenough to have people for
anywhere from four to seven days, sometimes longer, and repeat

(17:31):
staff year over year.
So you build relationships withthese people and that's key.
But again, the turnover isexhausting.
That's why it's important tohave certain people in place in

(17:52):
the different areas to help youtrain, because dealing with
turnover and training cycles isa pain in the ass, like just
training the same job year afteryear, over and over and, over
and over again, and you knowit's a lot.

(18:15):
So that's one of those things.
Number one you've got to figureout how much you can afford to
pay somebody.
How many people can I put inthat position?
How many people can I put inthat position?
How many people do I need inthat position to fulfill my
vision?
Right, I started Shodi or, mindyou, I wasn't full.

(18:36):
I thought I could do it withone chef, one server, one
dockhand and myself, and thatwas a huge, huge miscalculation,
to say the least.
So you got to figure it out.
But you know what you do, thatyou'll figure it out when you as

(18:58):
you go.
And it's, it's, it's, it's astaffing is something that you
really need to put some timeinto.
And the payroll side of thingsbecause you've it's not just,
you know, $14 an hour or minimumwage or whatever, because
you've got all the governmentstuff your CPP, your EI and and

(19:22):
a lot of different costsassociated with payroll and
insurance your WSIB insurance orwhatever you might call it,
wherever your lodge is.
So there's a lot of attentionthat you need to pay Once you
have your capital andinfrastructure in place.
Now you're looking at seasonalstaffing, full-time staffing and

(19:48):
payroll.
And one thing that people forgetabout a lot is maintenance and
repairs.
Some places I didn't have one,but generators you can go.
I know that we've, uh, we'vebeen on shoots where, um, um,
we've got a lodge and they runon a generator and the main

(20:11):
generator shuts down and you gotno power.
And I've been in a positionwhere I've had no power before
and, believe me, it is a shittysituation literally, because
with no power your septicdoesn't work and it doesn't take
the effluent from the 45-gallondrum outside the cottage up to

(20:34):
the system and there's no waterto flush the toilets.
And even if you put jugs ofwater for people to dump down
the toilet after they're doneshitting, it is not nice.
So after experiencing that onceor twice, I went out and bought

(20:55):
a generator that at least runmy essentials, my water system,
my kitchen lights, so that wouldnever happen.
But again, it's part of therepairs and maintenance.
You've got roofs.
I did new steel roofs on all ofthe cottages.

(21:17):
It was actually a grant.
I'm so thankful for the NOHFCand the Young Entrepreneur 50-50
grant that put new roofs on allof my cottages and helped me
build the dock to where it istoday.
You know you've got fridges andwater heaters, and just imagine

(21:44):
all of the things that youmaintain in your house, um, and
then multiply that for me in mycase, uh, 15,.
Uh, because I had 14 cottages,the main lodge 16, actually I
had the staff quarters.
You know so, and and thenyou've got.

(22:05):
So that's just we're.
We're looking at buildingspainting.
I put like 7 million gallons ofpaint on all of those buildings
and and and.
But it's gotta be done becauseif you don't, that preventative

(22:26):
maintenance turns into necessarymaintenance and necessary
maintenance costs you way moremoney.
There's all of the maintenanceand upkeep for the

(22:48):
infrastructure itself, for thefacility.
You know windows and you'reoften in remote areas and the
buildings are typically older.
So you know you've gotfoundations sinking or wood
rotting and it's just constant.
Now you've got maintenance andrepairs on boats and motors.

(23:12):
Because most of theseoperations supply boats and
motors were a huge, huge sourceof, I'm going to say, pain and

(23:34):
anguish.
You know I always thought, wow,you really are big time when
you own like one or two boats.
I had like 20.
And I, if I, if I, I wouldn'tcare to ever and I mean ever see

(23:57):
a cedar strip boat again.
They're beautiful, they'renostalgic, but I there's such a
pain in the ass.

(24:18):
It is ridiculous.
You know, any high end lodge,you need to put three coats of
varnish you might get away withtwo on those boats on the hall
and on the inside of them everyyear, every year.

(24:39):
And I, I had 13.
So you're looking at varnishingevery like 13 boats, two coats
of varnish every year.
Wow, I can tell you when you'reopening, there's enough going

(25:00):
on that you don't need to spenda week varnishing boats.
And not only do you have tospend that week varnishing boats
, it takes them, you know, aweek to dry properly before you
can throw them in the water.
So it was a huge endeavor everyspring to look after those

(25:25):
boats.
And then, inevitably, you know,a couple of years went by and
the ice went out late and youknow you think, okay, well, I
did it last year, I don't needto do it this year.
You throw them in the water.
And I think I went two yearswithout doing it.

(25:46):
The first year was just thatIce went out late.
I had no time.
There was no choice.
Boats in the water Bob's, youruncle, here we go.
I put them away.
They didn't look too bad.
So the following year, to behonest, I probably just got lazy
and um, and maybe didn't wantto invest in, you know, 150

(26:10):
gallons of of um, spar varnish,um, but they went out and by the
end of the summer the UV fromthe sun had, uh, had those boats
in such rough shape that I hadto, I, I took them all home to
my mom and dad's.
Um, dad just built a shop.

(26:32):
It was empty, like totallyempty, and I filled her right to
the brim with with Cedar stripsand um, I um fibered some of
them and redid them all.
And again, the maintenance onthis kind of stuff is a lot.

(26:54):
It's a lot, and to organize themaintenance on it is a huge job
in itself.
Right, because on the buildingsyou start at one end and by the
time you're done the 14thcottage, you go right back to

(27:15):
the other side and start again.
And I'm talking with paint.
Right, because in one of myvery first years, in one of my
very first years, when I said weput like 17 million gallons of
paint on all of those places, wedid it top to bottom, like
every building, and that tookthat was I forget it must have

(27:42):
been in the fall, because ittook near three weeks and we
just didn't have that kind oftime in the spring to open.
It was a fall project and Ijust stayed until it was done.
And then after that, you know,you go in the springtime, you
kind of set up, you do one ortwo, and then you do one or two
more the following spring andyou just kind of try and keep up

(28:03):
on it.
But organizing that and thenbudgeting for any kind of
surprise breakdowns and when wewere talking about boats on the
Upper French River, I had asurprise breakdown like two or
three times a week because therocks on the river are

(28:27):
ridiculous and althoughNavionics has done a good job
mapping it out, inevitablythere's people out there that
don't know how to read GPS ordon't care.
Well, I don't think there'sanybody that doesn't really care
, that's for sure.
But there's a lot of peoplethat hit rocks I don't know what

(28:49):
to say.
They hit rocks.
So you got to budget for thosebreakdowns and I actually,
because you can't get insuranceto cover rentals like that.
So I created my own insurancepolicy and that's probably a

(29:09):
whole other podcast.
But you got to budget somehowfor those surprise breakdowns,
and then you know you're lookingat at your fuel and your
utilities when you're, whenyou're out in the wilderness,
whether that be on an Island onthe upper French river, or

(29:30):
whether that's at the end of aof a logging road, um, in a
Tamiskaming, or whether that's,uh, on a float plane out in the
middle of Great Slave Lake.
There's consumables that youconstantly need, and fuel and

(29:50):
utilities are one of them.
Right, like my kitchen run onpropane.
You need gas for your boats,you need diesel for your
generators if you run agenerator, for your generators,
if you run a generator, you knowthere's so much logistics

(30:11):
involved with really fuel costs.
Like I mean, gas for boats ishuge and whether you're like I
mean, I feel sorry for the guysthat have to fly it in, because
that is that's a whole differentanimal altogether.

(30:35):
I was on an island and that wasbad enough.
I had a steel barge with a fueltank in it and I would drive
across the river to WajakCottages and they were kind
enough there to let the fueltruck come in their driveway

(30:56):
because it was really close, soI just scoot across the river.
I had to buy a special gas tank.
Which the specialness of thisgas tank was it was buoyant and
double-walled and obviouslysealed tightly with one-way

(31:18):
check valves or vents.
One-way check valves or ventsBecause if the boat went into
the water, they didn't want afuel tank sinking to the bottom
of the river, which makes a lotof sense, honestly, and they
didn't actually come up withthat legislation until about my

(31:40):
third or fourth year.
Now, the cost of this doublewalled um tank was like four
times what a normal tank was.
So I'm pretty sure they werekind of taking advantage of the
fact that, uh, the people werebent over a barrel and had to
have it because it was requiredby law and stuck it to you.

(32:02):
But anyway, I got one.
So you know, know, there's thosethings to think about.
And then you can, in today'sday and age, you can start
balancing the idea of agenerator versus a solar or a
hybrid system to cut down onthose fuel costs, right?
So once you got those lookedafter, now you've got food and

(32:27):
guest supplies, and this wasanother area that was very
difficult for me, and in thebeginning I relied like 110% on
the chefs.
I would basically have themcome in.
I wanted them to make greatfood.

(32:48):
I knew I wanted great food andI figured the best way to make
great food was, when I wasinterviewing for the position,
ask them what their favoritemeals were and what their, what
their favorite dishes that theylove to make are.

(33:10):
And, um, once I decided on achef, I would bring them in and
I would say, hey, uh, let's sitdown, we'll do a, we'll do a
menu.
And, um, what are yourspecialties?
You said you love to makechicken cordon bleu, you love to

(33:31):
make duck confit, you love tomake three or four different
ones.
And then I would say, okay,when we're opening, right, we
would get the kitchen open andwe would get our first food
order in, um, and I would havehim make all of those meals for

(33:51):
our staff, cause sometimes thestaff didn't get the same meals
as as we were eating in thedining room, although I'm pretty
sure that it did prove out thatit was.
Even though it costs a littlebit more to feed your staff the
same meals as the guests, in thelong run I think it's just the

(34:19):
same as if you had a separatemenu for the staff, right?
Anyway, that's a whole othertopic.
But so there's the food, and Ireally relied on the chefs.
And then, as I got more seasonedI guess is a good word and

(34:45):
later on in my tenure, I gotgood at seeing you know how good
a chef was when it come towaste, how good a chef was when
it come to judging the amount offood he needs to make, because
these are all very, veryimportant things, because a good

(35:10):
chef can save you thousands ofdollars, right?
So it's important that you havea chef that is saving you money
, not costing you money, becauseI've had both.
I've had chefs that cost memoney.

(35:34):
And when you think about a chefcosting you money, the first
thing I'm sure that a lot of youthink is oh well, he's buying
way too much food and he's youknow, he's making these big
elaborate meals and everythingelse.
No, no, no, that's not where achef costs you money.
I'll tell you where a chefcosts you money.

(35:57):
And this uh, I hired a um, achef in particular.
I don't even remember his name,I just remember he was in a um,
uh, uh, ended up in arelationship with one of the uh
servers and um, uh, she, uh, shedecided that uh, I don't I'm.
I think maybe he decided he wasin a relationship with one of

(36:21):
the servers and the serverdecided that she didn't want
anything to do with it.
Anyway, he punched a few holesin the wall and I had to get rid
of him.
But point of the matter iswhere a chef costs you money.
Right, I was coming off of achef.
I actually I think it was DaveQuinney.
He ended up getting a job inNunavut or the Northwest

(36:46):
Territories or the North Pole,cooking up there for way more
than what I could afford to payhim.
And Dave went up north and thiswould have been in June, and he
helped me find a replacement.
Well, this was the replacement.

(37:08):
Crazy Dave, I think is what hisname was.
But so, crazy Dave.
You know we already had a menuin place and there was veal on a
bun right and veal on a bunright and veal on a bun to me.
And you know you ask them canyou do veal on a bun?

(37:31):
You know, it's just wholesome,wonderful, great sauce, this and
that, yeah, yeah, yeah, noproblem, no problem.
And the veal that we serve, theChaudiere Lodge veal, is veal
cutlets, pounded out, you know,breaded by hand by us,

(37:57):
tenderized, cooked properly, puton, you know, a nice Italian
bun done right, like the onethat you would go to an Italian
bakery in Woodbridge and buy.
That's a viola on a bun.

(38:17):
Okay, crazy.
Dave went out and bought vealpatties, breaded that were round
like hockey pucks, and followedthat up with Dempster's
hamburger buns and that was andserved it with.

(38:40):
You know, you put ketchup andmustard on it and because it was
a mid-season shift from onechef to another, I didn't again
like.
I mean I didn't have time towatch what he was ordering, I
didn't have time to.

(39:00):
I just assumed and when youassume you make an ass out of
you and an ass out of me, and Iwas.
I couldn't believe it.
I was horrified when I walkedinto the dining room and I saw
my guests eating a plate ofMcCain's French fries that were

(39:25):
deep fried, obviously, becausechaudiere French fries are cut
from potatoes and cookedproperly from fresh potatoes.
We don't buy bags of frozenMcCain's crinkle fries.
You know what I mean.

(39:46):
I was horrified and I had got acouple of complaints about the
food and I knew I was alreadylooking for somebody and I'll
never forget.

(40:06):
I went up to this guy about aweek and a half into him working
there and I said, dave, we gotto figure this out because I've
got three complaints about thequality of our food.
And he looked at me and he said, huh, three.

(40:28):
I said, yeah, three.
And he said, well, we've hadabout 60 people in in the last
week and a half, so three,that's pretty good.
And I said no, no, no, dave, no, it's not good, not good at all
.
I don't get complaints, I don'tget, we don't get complaints.

(40:52):
Our food is outstanding and wedon't get complaints.
Complaints are not okay.
And in his mind he was thinkingthat only three complaints was
a good thing.
So that is where chefs lose youlots of money.
It's not where.

(41:12):
It's not the.
Yes, they can save you a littlebit on being efficient and you
know planning a menu that'sproperly planned so that you've
got a few expensive meals as faras the product, and then some

(41:33):
that aren't so expensive, butthey're all great, they're all
really really good, like you canhave a cheap, really really
good meal like lasagna or likespaghetti and meatballs.
When it is done properly, it isdelicious and you give choices

(41:54):
all the time.
You know pork chops Great,really good, cheap food.
Buy pork loins from no Frillswhen they went on sale and Phil
and Dave and the guys that knewwhat they were doing with it
turned it into somethingbeautiful when chefs lose you

(42:17):
money and staff for that matterany staff, for that matter is
when they're not doing a goodjob and people don't have a good
experience and they turn aroundand they leave.
They don't tell you anythingbecause people, when they're
pissed off unless they're reallypissed off they just take their

(42:40):
lumps and say, okay, I'm nevercoming back here and that's what
happens.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
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That's Lakeside Marine in RedLake, ontario Family owned since
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(43:12):
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Speaker 3 (43:33):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.

(43:54):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal use by
Indigenous peoples all over theglobe.

(44:17):
After nearly a decade of harvestuse, testimonials and research,
my skepticism has faded toobsession and I now spend my
life dedicated to improving thelives of others through natural
means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm

(44:41):
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people.
That will help you find youroutdoor passion and help you
live a life close to nature andunder the canopy.
Find Under the Canopy now onSpotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
And next you know, after you get your food set up,
you've got your marketing costs,the cost of booking and there's
cost involved with that andcustomer service.
I paid Cole to do most of mybookings and if you don't pay
somebody to do it, you have todo it and that costs you.

(45:24):
That costs you because you haveto do it, you have to do it and
that costs you.
That costs you because you haveto do the work.
And then there's the hard costsof your marketing your website,
which is huge.
Social media, trade shows Tradeshows is another big one I
chose not to do.
Trade shows is another big one.

(45:45):
I chose not to do trade showsand that kind of thing.
So that was a choice that Imade and I decided that I was

(46:12):
away from my family for sixmonths and then when I got home
and young family too, likeMelissa and the kids were babies
when I got home I just couldn'ttell my wife, hey, I've been
gone for six months and I gotfour months of trade shows
booked, so catch you later.
No, so trade shows wasn't oneof those things that I did.

(46:34):
I chose and all of you knowI've talked about it a lot I
chose television shows as mymedia and that's the way I went.
But there's always costinvolved with that, so you
really got to watch your costsright.
You've got your booking systemset up.

(46:56):
You know, trekkit is a greatexample, a wonderful system, but
there's costs involved withsetting it up, there's costs
involved with maintaining it andyou've got to be on point with
a lot of this because you'recompeting for attention in a
crowded tourism market.

(47:17):
But I can tell you one thing ifyou do it right, you stand up
above the crowd.
And once you stand up above thecrowd, you're rocking baby, and
this can be a industry that isvery, very lucrative for people

(47:39):
that do it right.
There's no doubt about it.
And then another cost is isgovernment regulations and
compliance.
You know I I chose to to sellfishing lodges.
Well, I didn't choose.
I was selling fishing licensesbecause the old owner sold

(48:00):
fishing licenses and there wasnowhere to get them.
But it was a pain in the assand you didn't get paid nothing
for doing the service.
So we really started educatingour guests to just go online and
get it themselves, and then Iprovided a computer for those

(48:22):
who forgot and then, once theygot to the lodge.
They went online, got itthemselves, worked way much
better.
But you've got things likewaste disposal, water quality
testing and that water qualitytesting.
I and this is another storythat I'm sure I've told, and
this is another story that I'msure I've told In my second year

(48:44):
I thought to myself well, I waslooking through a bunch of old
papers that Jerry had left up inthe office and I saw a water
quality test from True NorthLabs for the water and it was
2007,.
It was dated and I thought, geez, this is like 2010, because I

(49:10):
bought it in 2009 and 2010 wasmy opening year and this was,
like you know, august.
I had no idea that I needed toget my water tested.
Nobody told me.
You're supposed to know, but Ididn't.
And I thought, when I saw thatwater test, I thought, geez,

(49:30):
that's you know, I'm sure I needto get water tests.
So I phoned.
I phoned where the hell did Iphone?
I Googled water tests.
Ah, I phoned the lab.
I had the invoice in my hand.
I phoned the lab and I said theywere in North Bay.

(49:54):
I said hi, I'm Steve, I'm onthe show to Air Lodge now I need
to get some water tests.
And they said okay, what testsdo you need?
I said I don't know.
And then right away the girlsaid okay, well, the health unit
tells you what tests you needand then we'll do those tests.

(50:19):
And I said, oh, okay.
She said call the health unit.
You need to talk to the healthunit first.
We don't tell you what you need, we just do what you tell us
Makes sense.
I phoned the North Bay HealthUnit because I thought, well,
maybe I'm North Bay.
And they said no, we don't haveyou on file, you're not in our

(50:40):
jurisdiction.
I said, okay, they told me tocall Sudbury.
I called Sudbury.
They said no, no, you're not onour file.
You must be in North Bay.
You're yeah, you're not in ourjurisdiction.
I said okay.

(51:01):
I phoned back North Bay.
They said no, you're not in ourjurisdiction.
You're you could be Parry Sound, but I doubt it.
You're in Sudbury.
It's Sudbury.
So now I'm getting frustrated.
So I just phoned the lab andsaid listen, I can't like these

(51:21):
places, don't know where Ibelong to the health units.
I phoned both Sudbury and NorthBay.
They're not helping me.
So why don't you just go ahead,pull up the last water test,
which ended up being the onethat I was holding from 2007,
which was a little unnerving.
Just do the same tests for me,would you Okay?
So they sent me some boxes withthe test, their styrofoam boxes

(51:47):
with the little bottles for thewater, for the test samples,
and everything went to the homehardware in Noelville, got it,
took my water sample, sent it in.
The next day I get a phone callfrom the lab and there the girl
in the lab said have you everhad a bad test?
And I said no, I was talking toyou yesterday.

(52:12):
You know I've never had a test.
Oh well, we have a bad testhere and I said okay, so what
does that mean?
She said well, we'reimmediately putting you under a
boil advisory because you haveone culture of coliform I forget

(52:34):
what it was, but it wasn't goodand she said the health unit is
going to contact you right away.
I'm like okay, whatever.
So the health unit, within likefive minutes, is on me and I

(52:56):
said to the guy on the phonehe's like you've got a bad test
and you've got to go to thiswebsite and there's literature
you need to print off and youneed to put signs at every place
that you can get water.
And I said, okay, no problem.

(53:18):
And he said, and I'll be therefirst thing in the morning.
I said, okay, so I go onto thewebsite, I print out all these
signs.
Well, these signs have skullsand crossbones on them.
Like I mean, and I'm in myfirst year, it's my busiest week
and I haven't had many busyweeks and now I have to post

(53:42):
these signs saying do not drinkthe water, and it has a picture
of a skull and crossbones, likeI mean, holy, oh shit, balls.
That's great for business now,isn't it?
Anyway, I'm now traumatized.
Aunt Beth thank God Aunt Bethand Uncle Barry were there.

(54:03):
Aunt Beth thank God Aunt Bethand Uncle Barry were there.
Aunt Beth talked me off theledge and her and Uncle Barry
drove to Noelville, sturgeonFalls and North Bay and picked
up like 150 cases of water andbrought them back because we
were using water for likebottled water, for everything

(54:25):
right.
And then the next day the guycomes out and he is, he is, gets
on my boat and he is lecturingme Like he is laying into me
about how it's irresponsible,and blah, blah, blah and I lost
it.
I said listen, if you want meto turn this boat around and

(54:49):
take you back to the dock, Iwill okay, but you don't talk to
me like that.
I've been phoning the Sudburyand North Bay health units for
over a month and you guys didn'thave the common decency to call
me back.
You guys left me in a positionwhere I could have lost my

(55:14):
business because of you.
I was doing my due diligence, Iwas going out of my way to try
and do things right.
I'm the reason that you're herebecause I went ahead and, out
of my own due diligence, did atest that I didn't even know was
the right test.

(55:34):
So if you want to continue downthis road this way, I'll tell
you what I'm gonna turn around,or you can get the hell out of
my boat right now.
Way to go, go, get out.

(55:57):
Or and I looked at him, I took adeep breath and I said how you
doing?
My name's Steve, pleasure tomeet you.
I'd love to take you out to theisland and show you my water
system.
And he looked at me and he wasstunned, like I don't think
anybody had ever talked to himlike that and I never really
talked to anybody like that,especially a person in authority
in a position like that.
But I was under so much stressand I, like I mean I was I was

(56:21):
near in tears because this guywas telling me that I was
knowingly trying to hurt people,like, anyway, his first
reaction come off terrible.
My reaction to him was not good, but he looked at me and he

(56:45):
grabbed my hand and he said it'sa real pleasure to meet you, I
would love to go and look atyour water system.
And from that point on he wasfantastic.
And the conversation that we hadin the boat on the way over
after that point was you know,listen, I'm here to do things

(57:06):
right.
This is my life.
I need your help.
And he said thank you.
He said there's not many peopleout there like you.
Most people are telling me togo stick it where the sun don't
shine and get off their property, and I have to be that guy, but
I appreciate this anyway.

(57:30):
So there's, there's, there'sthose, those compliance issues.
Right, there's also all of your, your ministry of natural
resources, compliance and andall of that stuff.
You know, licensing and makingsure your boats are legal and,
um, making sure you educate yourguests on, on limits and and

(57:52):
things like that, um, you know.
So there's a, there's a lot ofthat stuff.
Um, there's also a cost, um,and that cost is personal
sacrifice, you know, and loss ofopportunities.
And that personal sacrifice arethings like you don't get any

(58:19):
weekends, it's six months of thebest season in this country
that you're tied up at work andlike I mean I could say long
hours.
But when you're the owner of alodge, from the moment that you

(58:44):
open your eyes to the momentthat you close your eyes, you're
working and a lot of the workis fun.
Like I mean, I truly enjoyedall of the work that I did there
.
I loved, you know, buildingthings and improving the
infrastructure.

(59:04):
There's a lot of pride that onecan take when you put concrete
paths with flagstone inlays atyour place, you know, and
there's a lot of satisfactionthat goes along with it.
But it's a lot of work, youknow.

(59:24):
Entertaining I would always feelbad because, you know, I'm
leaving my wife at home with allthe kids and she's working as a
teacher and sometimes it seemedlike I was playing guitar and
partying with people and havinga great old dandy time while she
was at home, working very hardat home, working very hard, and

(59:48):
to a certain extent, portions ofthat are kind of true.
The fact that I was playingguitar and entertaining people,
that's all true, but I wasn'tdrinking my face off.
I wasn't actually even drinking.
I went out of my way to makepeople think I was drinking so

(01:00:09):
that they wouldn't push alcoholon me, because you can't drink
in my position.
But yes, yeah, I wasentertaining, right.
So the hours were long and a lotof times I could go three to
five days in a week where I'm upat, you know five o'clock and I

(01:00:29):
go to bed at two o'clock andthat that's.
That's that wears on you, right?
You miss things.
You miss weddings, you missfunerals, you miss holidays, you
miss your kids' sports, youmiss.
You miss so much, um, whereyou're where when you're you're

(01:00:52):
away.
I was four hours away.
Sometimes you can be a lotfurther than that, you know.
And and it's not just lodgebusiness, like I mean, there are
a lot of businesses that takepeople away from from their
family and it's a sacrifice,it's a personal sacrifice, and
in lodge business you need tomake that.
There is going to be personalsacrifice, 1,000%, and if you

(01:01:16):
don't make it, you will not besuccessful.
It's as simple as that.
And there were nights whenMelissa was struggling, okay,
and she would phone me the kidsweren't sleeping, the baby is
sick, there's something wrongand she would be in tears on the

(01:01:36):
other end of the phone and Iwould just have to take the
receiver of the phone and holdit away from my ear because my
mind was already full.
I was dealing with so muchpressure up there.
How am I going to make payroll?
Did I get the pillow out to theBlue Jay cabin, like I said I

(01:01:58):
did?
Is the chef going to be intomorrow?
Is our food delivery going tobe on time?
And bring the phone back to myear and say, I understand,
sweetheart, but I'm four hoursaway and take the receiver away
and let her cry and vent and,like I mean, there is sacrifice

(01:02:26):
and you will make it to besuccessful.
There is no other way.
Environmental stewardship costsright.
Those are things that make thatare sustainable practices.
They're supporting conservationin the area.

(01:02:49):
You know, repairing andpreventing fuel spills and
littering and septic issues aton of time to be a good steward
of the environment, but it isso important that you look after

(01:03:19):
your resource.
It is like I mean, the resourceis what your business is built
on, whether that's the fish,whether that's the eagles that
people look at and take picturesof, whether it's the forest.
You know, the environment issomething that needs to be

(01:03:44):
looked after and it does have acost, right.
And then and then, lastly,there's the emotional and mental
toll, um, the pressure of beingresponsible for every guest's
experience, um, the fact thatyou're isolated and and burnout,

(01:04:05):
um is is so real Relationshipstrains, like I say, I was just
talking about it, like you wantto talk about straining a
relationship, try doing whatMelissa and I did, you know, and
why passion must outweighprofit, and that is somewhere

(01:04:32):
that people they go wrong a lot.
But let's just unpack that.
That's a whole lot right there.
But, first and foremost, thepressure of being responsible
for every guest's experience,and that's something that I took

(01:04:54):
personally.
I needed, it was a must for methat every guest enjoyed
themselves and had an experiencesecond to none, enjoyed
themselves and had an experiencesecond to none, and that is why
I always talked about walkingthrough the heartbeat of my

(01:05:15):
business, and that's the diningroom, and I talked every day
that I was there.
For sure, at dinner andsometimes lunch and breakfast, I
would walk the dining room andI would talk to everyone, but
dinner for sure, 100%.
Breakfast could be busy becauseI'm helping organize shore

(01:05:38):
lunches and guides and a bunchof stuff.
Dinner I'm there and I wasalways very good at feeling
people.
I was always very good atfeeling people and I knew when
something wasn't right, ifsomebody was a little bit off.
And as soon as I felt that Iwould say, hey, how was your day

(01:05:59):
?
And they'd say, oh, it was okay.
And I would say, okay, well,listen, I don't like okay.
Would it be all right if afterdinner I come out to your
cottage and we sat down andtalked about your trip so far?

(01:06:23):
Maybe I'll bring a bottle ofwine for you guys, and whether
it was a couple or a group orwhatever and inevitably I would
convince them that this is agood idea and I would go out and
I would take a notepad and Iwould sit down and I would say,
once in the safety of a privatearea because the dining room is

(01:06:43):
not the place to unpack thatOnce in the safety of a private
area, I would take my notebookout and I would say, listen, it
is my responsibility to makesure that you have the most
outstanding trip ever, Like thistrip needs to be something that

(01:07:11):
is very special.
It's your responsibility to helpme get you there.
So what?
What can I do?
Where are things going off therails?
If they're going off the rails,and you know, inevitably I
would take notes.
If they're going off the rails,and you know, inevitably I
would take notes.
You know the garbage wasn'ttaken out and it's overflowing

(01:07:33):
in the bathroom and this andthat and whatever the case may
be, and I would write every oneof them down on a piece of paper
.
I might not get to them all,but just the simple fact that I
was writing them down was enoughto, in most cases, make people

(01:07:55):
feel better about the experienceme, because we're together
building an experience that'snot just for them, it's for the
next people that are coming in,it's for you when you come back
next year and make them a partof the business as well, because

(01:08:30):
that ownership is so, so useful, it's so genuine, and when
somebody feels like they're partof something, that is when the
experience turns into somethingthat's great, because everybody
has a hand in what we're doingright.

(01:08:53):
So that pressure of beingresponsible for every guest's
experience is very real and itwas probably the biggest
pressure for me and it's the onethat I took it head on.
And it's the one that I took ithead on.
It's very easy to sit up in theoffice and not go down and face

(01:09:15):
people and just you know, seethem in passing and say hi, you
know, but you don't know whatyour business is doing, and
that's not me and anybody thatgets into this business.
You can't be that person.
You need to be a person thathas your pulse on your business,
which is in your dining room orin front of your guests,

(01:09:38):
wherever that may be, and youneed to understand what their
desires are and how you can showthem a wonderful experience.
Isolation, man, that is a wholecan of worms.
I used to hire like two orthree extra staff members at the
beginning of the year because Iknew I was going to lose two or

(01:10:02):
three due to the fact thatpeople don't understand what
it's like to live on an islandin the middle of the French
river in tight quarters withthis, the whole staff, um, it
was a, a, a crazy dynamic.
Um, you know, it's it, it justis what it is.

(01:10:24):
And um, and the next was wasburnout, and we called it the
dog days, you know, like there'sreally.
Once you get into, you know,opening in June and early July
it's spring, and then you'reinto summer and you know the
weather's changing, the water'sgetting warm, everything is new,

(01:10:44):
you know.
And then all of a sudden youhit mid to end of August and now
you've been working for a lotof hours and you're starting to
get annoyed with certain peoplebecause inevitably you're living
with, you know, 18 people thatyou really don't know.

(01:11:06):
It's just that burnout is areal thing and I had to manage
burnout for myself, you know,and my staff especially, and
giving staff days off andletting them go into North Bay

(01:11:29):
or into town, getting away,making special meals for
everybody.
You know there were a lot ofdifferent things that we did to
manage that burnout.
And then there's relationshipstrain and I talked about it
with me.
But there's also a relationshipstrain between the staff

(01:11:52):
members themselves and I used tohave to have a talk at the
beginning of the year and andbasically tell like I mean,
these are all grown adults thatyou're, you're working with
young adults, but they're adultsand, um, what happens in the
staff quarters stays in thestaff quarters and inevitably
you would have young guys andgirls hooking up and falling in

(01:12:19):
love and breaking up and fightsand crying and oh my God, I've
said on a number of occasions Iwould have made as much money or
more doing a reality televisionshow behind the scenes.
Like there was so much shitthat went on back there.
It was crazy, you know, and youknow my staff handbook covered

(01:12:46):
a lot of it.
So there's relationship straineverywhere in a business like
this, especially when you'reisolated, especially when you've
got a lot of people that don'tknow each other.
They're young, they're full oflove for lack of a better term

(01:13:07):
and it's something that youactually, as an owner, have to
manage.
And I did that through theemployee handbook.
I did that through talking andeducating staff before they got
there, having a clear set outrules for situations.

(01:13:33):
So that relationship strainthing is a big thing and it
covers every aspect of every inevery corner of the business,
every corner of the business.
And why passion must outweighprofit.
That's very easy, because ifprofit all of a sudden takes

(01:14:01):
precedent, then inevitably youare going to cut corners on
everything else to meet thosegoals.
And for me, in whateverbusiness it was whether it was a
sheet metal business and I gavea quote.
Once I gave a quote, I didn'tthink about the cost of anything
anymore.
The job was now to do the job,and whether I made money or not

(01:14:24):
wasn't the responsibility of theperson that was paying me to do
the job.
I never went back and said, ohmy God, material went up.
This that I'm going to have tocharge you extra Doesn't happen.
Same with the lodge.
I have a vision of theexperience that I want to bring

(01:14:52):
to the table, and thatexperience is subject to change
depending on the person, but theprice is the price.
Whatever the week is, you setit up and you learn, so that the
price is the price.
I never thought about how muchmoney I was making, who was

(01:15:14):
paying what?
Never, it was always experienceNumber one, and that it'll lead
you to the promised land.
It will lead you to thepromised land.
It will lead you to thepromised land.
You just need to be smart inyour business.
So there's some of the costsright there, and I'm just going

(01:15:44):
to wrap this up with a few finalthoughts and some reflections.
The question that comes to mind,and a question that I fielded
from a lot of different people,is would you do it again?

(01:16:05):
And for me that's a greatquestion Would I do it again the
way that I did it?

(01:16:26):
Would I do it again as in, I'm33 years old again and I have to
make that same decision againand I have to live the last two
decades the way that I have?
Absolutely, absolutely.

(01:16:48):
It was, without a doubt, thebest decision that I ever made.
It was a very difficultdecision.
It was fraught with hardship ina lot of ways, but with that

(01:17:11):
hardship comes extremegratification and the people
that I met and the experienceand I'm going to be selfish the
experiences that I had with allof you people out there who may
be listening as Jodier guestswere some of the best times of

(01:17:34):
my life, having my family upthere and my kids, and that's
really what saved me and thebusiness was the fact that the
kids come up and and they lovedit as young kids, you know, from
the age of one.

(01:17:55):
Violet was born after, after weowned the lodge um and and to to
, when I sold it.
They loved it.
They loved coming up, beingwith the people and I loved it.
I loved exposing my children toa business that they could see

(01:18:17):
dad work, they could meet people.
And, yes, 1,000%, I would do itagain, even though a lot of
things had to go right.
Like I mean, financially, I wasas strapped and stretched and it

(01:18:43):
really shouldn't have beenpossible, have been possible.
Like I, I went to extremes toto make it happen, um, and not
only putting my, my home on theline.
I had, um I, I had, um a loanagainst my parents' farm as well

(01:19:04):
, or their house, um, so, like Imean, there it was, um, it was
an experience that came with alot of different emotion and I
think that making it work andlearning that when you set your
mind to something and you don'tgive yourself another option

(01:19:27):
other than to be successful, andseeing how that can unfold and
seeing how the, the law ofattraction, really works, um,
that in itself was, um, was, wasan amazing, was an amazing

(01:19:48):
accomplishment, something that Iam so very proud of to this day
, and I'm so, so thankful andproud of all of the people that
helped me do that, and that'severybody, from my wife and kids
to my staff, aunt Heather andUncle Barry and Grammy, and my

(01:20:12):
mom and dad.
Like they were there whenever Ineeded them to be there and
they helped me unbelievably myso many friends, scotty Hamp I

(01:20:32):
can't name them all, but thatexperience brought me so much
closer to people like Aunt Bethand Uncle Barry and my family
and my friends and all of theguests.
1000%, 100 million percent.
I would do it again Now.

(01:21:03):
Would I do it again now?
It's a great question and I'mthe way that I just don't know
if, if, maybe when violets goingto university, and if I could
talk Melissa into doingsomething like that, maybe.
But the one thing that I didlearn is a lot of people,

(01:21:27):
including myself, before I,before I bought a lodge.
Always I heard you know I'mgoing to retire and buy a
fishing lodge.
I've been there, done it and Ithank God that I didn't do that

(01:21:48):
as a retirement job, becauseit's not for someone who's
retired.
I know the business now and Iknow variations of how I would
do it so that it would besomething enjoyable in
retirement, not as laborintensive.

(01:22:11):
A little bit more capital toput into something.
Know the right thing, you know.
So maybe, maybe in the futurewe may have, we may, you know,
we may do something like thatagain, but you know what?

(01:22:32):
That's just the way it is.
Maybe maybe not, and I want tothank you all for listening up
until this point Because youknow, like the lodging business,
um, where it's not all costs, Italked about the rewards that

(01:22:58):
you get.
Um, you guys are the same andjust giving me, uh, a platform
to reflect on a lot of thisstuff is amazing and I really
really appreciate each and everyone of you.
And if you enjoy diaries, leavea review.

(01:23:21):
We really appreciate that.
Share this with somebody.
Someone may be dreaming ofbuying a lodge, you know it's
something that is interesting topeople.
And thanks again, I really,really appreciate it.

(01:23:42):
And, as always, head on over tofishingcanadacom.
You can get in on all thosefree giveaways.
Thank you to Anthony Mancini,our wonderful producer.
I appreciate the magic that youmake, anthony, and how well you

(01:24:04):
make me.
Sound and safe travels to Angeand the boys who are on our
first shoot.
I'm sitting this one out andlooking very much forward to the
next one, but they're headed upto Hawk Lake Lodge and stay
tuned for an episode from HawkLake on the Outdoor Journal

(01:24:28):
Radio podcast.
It's always wonderful.
Thanks again, willie.
Krista, I hope you get that TwoRivers Lodge all set up and
ready to go.
We know the costs now.
Catch you later.
Folks Love y'all.
And thus brings us to theconclusion of another episode of

(01:24:52):
Diaries of a Lodge Owner.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
Stories of the hog.
Since the day I was born,Bending my rock, stretching my
line.
Someday I might own a lodge andthat'd be fine.
I'll be making my way the onlyway I know how Working hard and

(01:25:32):
sharing the North with all of mypals.
Boy, I'm a good old boy.
I bought a lodge and lived mydream.
And now I'm here talking abouthow life can be as good as it
seems.
Yeah, and now I'm here talkingabout how life can be as good as
it seems.

Speaker 4 (01:25:52):
Yeah, back in 2016,.
Frank and I had a vision Toamass the single largest
database of muskie anglingeducation material anywhere in
the world.

Speaker 5 (01:26:03):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community and share itwith passionate anglers just
like you.

Speaker 4 (01:26:10):
Thus the Ugly Pike podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North
America.

Speaker 5 (01:26:17):
Step into the world of angling adventures and
embrace the thrill of the catchwith the Ugly Pike podcast.
Join us on our quest tounderstand what makes us
different as anglers and touncover what it takes to go
after the infamous fish of10,000 casts.

Speaker 4 (01:26:31):
The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing.
It's about creating atight-knit community of
passionate anglers who share thesame love for the sport.
Through laughter, throughcamaraderie and an unwavering
spirit of adventure, thispodcast will bring people
together.

Speaker 5 (01:26:46):
Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our
angling adventures.
Tight lines everyone.

Speaker 4 (01:26:51):
Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.

Speaker 6 (01:27:02):
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast that's right.
Every Thursday, Ange and I willbe right here in your ears
bringing you a brand new episodeof Outdoor Journal Radio.
Hmm, Now, what are we going totalk about for two hours every
week?
Well, you know, there's goingto be a lot of fishing.

Speaker 4 (01:27:23):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them.
Where those fish were going tobe and how to catch them, and
they were easy to catch.

Speaker 6 (01:27:28):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors from athletes.

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
All the other guys would go golfing Me and Garth
and Turk and all the Russianswould go fishing.
To scientists.
But now that we're reforestingand letting things freeze, it's
the perfect transmissionenvironment for life.

Speaker 5 (01:27:47):
To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
, you will taste it.

Speaker 6 (01:27:54):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.