Episode 101: The Art and Value of a Great Guide

Ever wondered what truly separates an ordinary fishing trip from an extraordinary one? It might just be the person sitting next to you in the boat.

Great fishing guides transform what could be a simple day on the water into a rich tapestry of experiences, stories, and connections that last long after the rods are packed away. As someone who built a successful lodge business on Ontario's French River, I discovered early that guides weren't just an optional luxury – they were the heartbeat of unforgettable guest experiences.

What makes a truly exceptional guide? Surprisingly, it's not always about being the best angler. The most beloved guides combine patience, adaptability, storytelling prowess, and genuine humility. They're equal parts teacher, wildlife interpreter, and companion. They don't just put you on fish; they help you understand the rhythm of the water, share local knowledge that would take years to acquire independently, and create moments that become cherished memories. From Billy Commanda's masterful walleye shore lunches to Pat's osprey-calling abilities at special lunch spots, these guides craft experiences that transcend mere fishing trips.

For those debating whether to hire a guide or venture out independently, consider what you truly want from your trip. DIY adventures offer freedom and the satisfaction of personal discovery, but they come with stressors – navigation concerns, boat operation, and the pressure of finding productive water. Meanwhile, guided experiences eliminate these worries while providing educational opportunities that can advance your angling skills by years in a single day. The right guide doesn't just enhance your fishing – they transform your relationship with the water and create stories you'll share around campfires for decades to come.

Ready to discover the difference a great guide can make on your next northern adventure? Whether it's your first cast or your thousandth, the stories, knowledge, and experiences shared with a passionate local guide might just be the element that turns a good trip into a legendary one.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
You know whether it's your first cast or your
thousandth cast.
A great fishing guide does morethan just put you on fish.
They help you understand therhythm of the water, the pulse
of the lake, and the storiesthat they can tell while they're

(00:26):
doing it are second to none.
This week on the OutdoorJournal Radio podcast networks
diaries of a lodge owner storiesof the north, we cast a line
into one of the most definingand sometimes overlooked aspects
of the lodge experiencedefining and sometimes
overlooked aspects of the lodgeexperience the choice between
going it alone or trusting yourtrip to a seasoned northern

(00:50):
guide.
On this show we'll explore theworld of fishing guides their
role, their value and theincredible stories they help to
create.
We'll look at what makes agreat guide, why some guests
resist the idea and how theseunsung heroes can not only shape

(01:11):
your success on the water butyour memories for years to come.
So if you've ever wonderedwhether you really need a guide,
or if you're in the lodgebusiness looking to build a team
of unforgettable talent, thisepisode's for you, because
sometimes the difference betweena good day and a legendary one

(01:33):
is the person in the boat besideyou.
Welcome back, folks, to anotherepisode of Diaries of a Lodge
Owner.
And yes, today we are going tounpack one of the most defining
elements of any lodge experiencethe fishing guide.
We're going to look at goingand exploring the values that a

(01:56):
great guide brings to the lodgethe customer experience and
conservation which is so veryimportant to a lodge owner and
lodge owners like myself.
We're also going to talk alittle bit about the DIY or
do-it-yourself side of thingsfor guests who prefer the

(02:18):
freedom on the water and comparethat to an experience that is
led by an expert guide.
We're also going to dedicatethis episode to all of those
unsung heroes of the North outthere, and that is, yes, you

(02:40):
guessed it all of you people outthere that are guiding and
sharing absolutely wonderfulexperiences, creating memories
and, honestly for me and I'veseen it so many times saving
trips, and it is such animportant role that every lodge

(03:07):
should have, and that is guides.
I learned that very, very earlyin my career as a lodge owner
and my philosophy as far asguides were was I really didn't
want.
Well, not that I didn't want.
My goal was not to make moneyon the guides.

(03:30):
My goal was to provide guidesto as many guests as possible by
creating, on my end,financially, a break-even
situation so that more peoplecould experience what guides do,
and in turn, that filled thebeds, that put bums in beds and

(03:52):
that is where my cream that'swhere everything came from is
bums in beds, and those guidesdefinitely helped retain people,
bring people back and createexperiences that were
unforgettable for those people.

(04:14):
So let's unpack this a littlebit and let's talk about first
the role of a fishing guide inshaping those guest experiences.
And you know, we reallystructured that guide experience
right from the moment you wokeup and picked your head up off

(04:37):
the pillow, and even before that, we would sell guides and I
would allow all of the guides tocome through the dining room in
the evening and interact withguests while dinner was going on
.
You know, in a very subtlemanner, manor, and typically

(05:02):
that was a guide who had taken afamily or a group or a person
or a couple out that day to comein while they were eating and
just see how their day was.
And what that did was itexposed those guides to the
other people in the dining room,because the French River is a

(05:25):
massive body of water, upperFrench in particular, where I
was, because it's also part ofLake Nipissing, which is tied
for the second largest body ofwater in the province of Ontario
outside of the Great Lakes, andso many people would come in

(05:48):
and have unsuccessful fishingdays and when they heard guests
talk about our guides in thedining room and the experiences
that they had, that was a hugeselling point.
You know you get one grouptalking about how they caught
100 walleye in a day and thenyou've got another group sitting

(06:11):
thinking, wow, we caught threeand it just to have that guide
in the dining room.
Being very respectful andsocial, it helped to sell guides
as well.
But it would start from themoment that you agreed that you

(06:32):
wanted a guide, and a lot oftimes that happened before you
even hit the island, because weactively tried to sell our
guides to guests when theycalled and booked, and for good
reason, I didn't have enoughguides to service all of the

(06:52):
people that came to the lodge.
So it was one of those thingswhere you know if you want a
guide, we suggest that you bookone now and then, once you did
book a guide we had that in ourrecords Everybody knew that
there was going to be a guidefor you know Jake McAlpine's

(07:17):
group and it was written on allof our calendars and that way
the kitchen knew if it was amuskie guide.
Because if it was a muskie guidewe didn't do the shore lunch
experience, which is part ofthat experience.
But typically muskie huntersthey're not really interested in

(07:39):
shore lunches and muskiefishing is not conducive to
shore lunches because, first andforemost, you don't eat muskies
.
So we knew which type of guidethese people were going on.
We prepared them with either aboxed lunch, boxed dinner, shore
lunch, and as soon as thosepeople, those people that group,

(08:12):
jake's group hit the island inpart of the orientation, knowing
that they were going to have aguide, we would explain how that
works.
Jake, you've got a guide onTuesday, very, very excited.
Your guy's name is Pat Tryon.
Pat Tryon and, um, uh, feelfeel free to search out Pat.
Um, you know, come 4.30, he'stypically coming in from guides,
uh, on the dock or he's aroundthe lounge or in the dining room

(08:37):
.
Please feel free to to searchhim out and and talk to him and
uh, he can give you some some uh, um, uh information and some
guidance, uh, leading up toTuesday, cause it's Sunday now,
you know, and you're going tofish tomorrow.
So talk to Pat, get yourselffamiliar with them, and that is

(08:59):
where it all starts, so thatyour guide, uh, so that the
guests are number one,comfortable with the guide that
they're, with knowing who thatperson is and taking advantage
of some of their knowledge evenbefore they go out with them.
And then, once you get on thatguide, so the morning of your

(09:25):
guide you come down, you have abeautiful breakfast, your guide
is on the dock waiting for you,you already know who he is, you
grab your gear, you walk downand you get on that boat.
And those guides are not justfishermen, they are people who
are very, very interested inshowing you an experience.

(09:50):
Now, that is something that iscultivated and we'll talk about
that a little later.
But the experience of havingthat guide with you.
Number one, takes all of thestress off your shoulders when
it comes to operating the boat,because that is from doing a lot

(10:11):
of do-it-yourself trips when Iwas younger.
That in itself was a hugestress.
Number one worrying about beingsafe.
Number two worrying about notwrecking the boat.
Number three worrying about notgetting lost.
And you combine all of thosestressors and it takes away from

(10:35):
the experience.
Automatically the guide takesaway, you don't have to worry
about the boat, you don't haveto worry about where you're
going.
You don't have to worry aboutthe boat, you don't have to
worry about where you're going,you don't have to worry about
getting home.
So just in those three things,the guides are amazing and I've
said it once and I'll say it athousand times when you go on to

(10:59):
a body of water and you take aguide, the education that you're
going to get during those eighthours will fast forward your
learning curve by 10 years bytrying to do it yourself,
especially on a body of waterthe size of the Upper French and

(11:22):
Lake Nipissing.
So you can tell the role of thefishing guide and the way that I
envisioned of a guest um whochooses um uh, to do do it on

(11:53):
their own.
Um is is is a great one, um.
But you know I've done a lot ofexploring on the motivations of
people who want to do ityourself and there's absolutely
nothing wrong with it.
But a lot of it comes down tothe confidence of an angler.

(12:19):
And there's so much intechnology today and you know,
especially when an angler bringstheir own boat to the lodge a
lot of times.
They'll want the independenceof being able to go out at any

(12:40):
time and the comfort of theirown boat, which, um, which is,
is huge, like I mean, when youknow where your stuff is, um,
it's, there's nothing better.
You know where the net is, youknow where your rods are, you
know which rod is which, youknow, uh, where your baits are,

(13:02):
and, um, and, and, when you,when you come to a body of water
, you, you, you like thechallenge of figuring it out
yourself, and those are allgreat things for for advanced
anglers, you know, and I always,I always tried and not, and I

(13:26):
never, ever pushed, but I lookedat all of that go and do it
yourself stuff, and one of thethings that we would offer the
guides didn't like it inparticular, for the same reason
the anglers wanted to do it waswe always offered somebody to
put, we always offered to put aguide in somebody's boat, and

(13:51):
it's one of those things thatthe guides they were a little
uncomfortable.
For that reason it wasn't theirboat, because my guides, I give
them a boat or they had theirown boat and all of their gear
was organized.
They knew exactly whereeverything was.
They were very familiar withthe electronics, they were

(14:14):
familiar with the boat itself,how it runs and all of that
stuff.
Regardless, the number one goalfor us owner and guides
included was the experience forthe guests, and there were a lot

(14:37):
of people that did takeadvantage of taking a guide in
their own boat.
And, you know, I thought, whenI first bought the lodge, that
people would maybe, you know,take a guide the first time they
were on the water, just tofamiliarize themselves with it
and, you know, get a few spots,and then they would want to do

(15:02):
it on their own, because that'swhere my mentality was.
And that boils down to anotherone of the do-it-yourself
factors, which is a factorthere's no doubt about it, and
that's the expense of a guide,because guides aren't cheap, and
we'll quickly break that down alittle bit.

(15:22):
So, when I was running thelodge between 2009 and end of
2018, I was basically charging$350 a day for the guide and

(15:46):
that, at the time, was asignificant, you know, expense,
but I would try and break itdown for people and make it a
little easier to have them goout.
So, when you rented a boat fromme for the week that you're
there on the day of the guide, Iwould deduct that weekly cost

(16:12):
on the boat.
It's not a great businesspractice.
It was.
It was because 99% of the ofthe lodges you rent a boat boat
for a week.
You pay for a boat for the weekand if you want to take a guide
for a day, that price doesn'tchange and that's probably the
right way to do it from abusiness standpoint.

(16:34):
But for me, again, it fallsback on that idea that I had
that I wanted to make guides asavailable to all of my guests as
possible, because I knew thatthe experience they were going
to get would far outweigh the$80 that I was going to lose in

(16:58):
boat rental revenue for that oneday.
And then when you start tobreak down the costs, you can at
least make it feel not asexpensive.
And I found that once peopletook a guide once, they didn't

(17:21):
just stop there, like I thought.
They wanted more guides,whether it was two guides in the
week, whether it was threeguides days over, seven days,
because our guides areunbelievably talented people and
they're trained to give youdifferent experiences and some

(17:43):
guides are specialists atcertain species, at certain
experiences, and people wouldwant to experience those
different experiences withdifferent guides.
For instance, billy Commanda,one of the well, one of the the

(18:04):
best walleye guide bar none onLake Nipissing in the Upper
French River that has ever lived, and I say that with confidence
.
He's a master at his craft andpart of that experience is just
watching the man fillet walleyeat the shore lunch and the

(18:30):
musical dance that he does whilebuilding that shore lunch from
the fire and getting things setup and going and filleting the
walleye and he, like I meanhe'll fillet a walleye and five
strokes of the knife.
It is, it is unbelievable andum, and people sometimes like

(18:51):
that.
Or you've got Pat, who is anunbelievable and Billy, you know
he's, um, he's not the mostsocial guy, right, um, he does
what he does very well.
And once you get to know himand you kind of break that hard
exterior that we all know asBill, he's got a wonderfully dry

(19:15):
sense of humor and peopleabsolutely love him.
And then you look at Pat, who'svery social, extremely
knowledgeable.
Who's very social, extremelyknowledgeable and outstanding at
every species and really amuskie specialist.
And then you've got guys likeMatt O'Brien, who still guides
at Chaudière and on the UpperFrench River, who can do it all,

(19:38):
but his true love and specialtyis muskies.
And you know people, people,through talking in the lodge
they really start to hear aboutthe different characters and
they want to spend time withthose people.

(20:00):
So you know, once you getsomebody introduced to those
guides and I mean introducedfrom the beginning, whether you
have a guide or not I had themall available to talk to people
on the dock, to be free, with alot of information, to help
people catch fish, which is ourgoal, whether you have a guide

(20:21):
or not.
That was hugely important and Ifound that the do-it-yourself
people they were doing itbecause they wanted to do it
themselves and some would takeguides because of just what I

(20:42):
was talking about Familiarizeyourself with that lake, jump
that learning curve reallyquickly and then go and do it
yourself and there's nothing,absolutely nothing, wrong with
that.
But I, as an owner, dideverything I could to break down
the barriers and really findout what those barriers were,

(21:05):
whether it was cost, whether itwas I don't want to go in your
boat, I'm comfortable in mine orwhether it was simply listen, I
want to do it myself.
And it's funny, I did a lot oftelevision shows and you all
know that, with fishing peopleand the one host of the one of

(21:35):
the television shows that cameup on a number of occasions with
me, charlie Ray and his wifeTerry from the Fishful Thinking
television show I typically,when a fishing show comes in, I
want to give them a guide.
I want a guide not so much to goon the boat with them, but a
guide to go out and point outthe spots again because it's

(21:58):
very big.
Now I really truly understandthe difficulties that a large
body of water can pose for agroup of people who have not
been on the water and are undera lot of pressure to produce and
do it in a short period of time.

(22:19):
But when I went to Charlie andsaid, listen, charlie, I've
blocked off one of my bestguides for you and I'd love for
you to take him, and obviouslyit's at no cost to you I can

(22:42):
provide you with a second boatfor any kind of B-roll shooting
you need.
Charlie looked at me and hesaid Steve, I really, really
appreciate the offer, but I likedoing it myself, I like going
and figuring it out myself.
And that's what he did everytime he came and he built on his
own knowledge base and I'lltell you what Charlie fished

(23:04):
unbelievably.
He caught fish in places that Ididn't even know existed and
that is a testament to the do ityourself and if you're set up
to do it that way, by all meansthat is an unbelievable way of
doing.
It means that is anunbelievable way of doing it,

(23:31):
but that doesn't like I mean.
So we'll get back into the guideside of things and the one
aspect of guides that Iabsolutely love and it's one of
the areas that I consideredmyself.
I never considered myself aguide because I wasn't on the

(23:51):
water every day.
I had all the information fromthe guides, but the guides as
storytellers was key, and I'llthrow teachers in there as well
and a person who can interpretthe wildlife around you, and

(24:15):
those three things right theredefine good guides and from
great guides, because every dayis different and some days the
fish are there but they justdon't want to cooperate and

(24:39):
that's just the way it is.
Some days are great fishingdays and you don't need to rely
on those three points that Itouched on, but the days that
are really tough, or tough ingeneral, you need to be a great
storyteller, you need to be ateacher, because if you're not
catching fish and you've got Ijust put Garmin LiveScope on my

(25:03):
boat you can take those guestsand immerse them in a world of
technology.
That a into the teaching partof it.
Then you've got how you teachhow to rig different baits and

(25:42):
rig different styles and how youwork different things right,
you know.
And storytelling, like I meanwhen you're on the water for
decades or a couple of years oryou've fished your whole life.

(26:02):
I would always talk to theguides.
And number one you want to tryand find some common ground with
your guest and I always used to, like you know, asking the
question where are you from?
And then go from there and thentell stories about past guide

(26:23):
experiences or fishingexperiences or family
experiences, all of that stuffright, and that in itself begins
to create an experience thatpeople will remember and they
will start to gravitate to you.

(26:43):
They get to know you as aperson.
You're not just the guide whoputs me on fish.
You become Steve or Pat orBilly or Matt or Pete, you know.
And then people really get tolike you as a person.
And there were so many timesNow I was a little bit different

(27:04):
because I was the owner and Iprofessed that I'm not a person.
And there were so many timesnow I was a little bit different
because I was the owner and Iprofessed that I'm not a guide,
I'm just your fishing buddy.
But so many people would comeup to me and would want to take
me out as a guide, knowing fullwell that we weren't probably
going to catch as many fish, butwanted to spend time with me

(27:25):
Because they and in turn I lovepeople and I love spending time
with people and getting to knowwho they were and it didn't
matter what walk of life theycame from.
And when you can do that, thatis magic.
And then you know you've gotthe you're a wildlife

(27:48):
interpreter right.
One of the best stories that Ican illustrate this idea with is
Pat and Abby and we talkedabout this at length in one of
our podcasts.
Pat and I where he found thatat one shore lunch spot in

(28:11):
particular, which was abeautiful spot, there was an
osprey who would recognize ourboats, believe it or not, and
knew that when we were going inat lunch that she was going to
get walleye carcasses or fishcarcasses of some description
and Pat would talk to her, hewould whistle and by the end of

(28:37):
the season he had Abby I don'twant to say trained, but they
had a mutual, mutuallybeneficial relationship, a
symbiotic relationship betweenthe two of them, where Pat would
pull up and he would starttalking to Abby, whistling his

(28:57):
Abby tune, which kind of soundedlike an osprey, and Abby knew
that she was going to get fedand he would toss out the
carcasses and in turn she wouldswoop down and pick up these
carcasses in front of the guestsand Pat would tell them what

(29:20):
was going to happen before ithappened.
And everybody was prepared withtheir cameras and their phones
and their video.
And halfway through the seasonAbby for me was money, because
guests would come back and againin the heartbeat of the lodge,

(29:40):
in the dining room, starttalking about Abby and people
who didn't care to catch a wholelot of fish and were there more
for an ecotourist styleexperience wanted to go catch

(30:03):
some fish and see Abby andinevitably they would come back
just incensed.
And not only that, theyexperienced a shore lunch which
is second to none and just thatwhole experience.
You know they would come backyear after year and if not go

(30:27):
more than once, would have to goout on a guide, and now it
wasn't so much Abbey, but it wasmore the experience.
You know we've got hieroglyphsthat are painted on the rocks
out at Keystone and you takepeople by there.
You know, pat's big secret isespecially when there's kids

(30:52):
involved, and you know kids canbe a little impatient sometimes.
Take them blueberry pickingJust simple things like that, to
create this experience asstorytellers, teachers and
wildlife interpreters.
And, um, you know, it's, it'suh, it's outstanding for the

(31:15):
guests.
And you know, a lot of timestoo and I'm speaking from
experience from back in the daywhen I would do it myself um,
things would go wrong, thingswould go wrong, and you know I
remember this.
One time Ray Poole, my goodbuddy Ray, this was back, oh, in

(31:41):
the late 90s Eric, his son andmy best friend, was still alive.
But I got to know Ray, eric'sdad, so well that we really
became great friends too, whichwas a little bit of an odd
dynamic, but a wonderful one,and it's lasted to this day.

(32:06):
But Ray and I decided that wewere going to go fishing up to
Key River and we stayed at theKey Harbour Lodge, and they
didn't even have the option forguides, nor did we have the
money at the time or the want tokind of to take.
It never even crossed our mindsthat you would have a guide.

(32:26):
So we went out and Ray had justbought a brand new Grumman boat
.
It was the maiden voyage and weused to always go in the spring
.
This would have been, you know,may 1st, as soon as you could
get on the water, when it waslegal, and May 1st on Georgian
Bay.
At that time, from the firstbridge on the river to Georgian

(32:52):
Bay opened on May 1st and we gopike fishing.
We went out to Genesee Bay andfished away, and fished away,
and then we decided you knowwhat, let's troll.
And Ray had this brand new ninenine trolling motor.
Maybe it was a, maybe it wasn'ta nine nine, might've been a
smaller engine, but it was atrolling motor nonetheless and

(33:13):
brand new.
And he tried to start it andpulled and pulled, and pulled
and pulled and there was no waythis thing was going to start
and we spent probably two hoursof our fishing trip and it, it,

(33:34):
it.
It ended with Ray so incensedthat I had to talk him off the
cliff because he was pulling the, the bracketry off the boat and
loosening the the nuts.
Because he nuts?
Because he was asking God, whyme?
And if you want it you can haveit, and he was going to throw

(33:58):
that engine right off, rightoverboard.
So anyway, he didn't.
And that again was one of thememories imprinted in my mind
and I'll call it a great one now.
But you know, it's one of thosethings where, when you do it

(34:19):
yourself, you learn the hard waysometimes and you know there's
so many stories and and one ofthe things when you do it
yourself that I learned as alodge owner, especially when you
you come and you're doing ityourself um, you're, you're in
one of our boats, and um, and,and, and there were a lot of

(34:43):
people that did it themselvesout of, out of uh, want or
necessity, because we didn'thave enough guides.
I had to learn that afterdinner the guys on the dock
would, specifically beforepeople left, we had a board on

(35:03):
the dock, a whiteboard, and eachgroup that left would give us
their approximate destinationand approximate time of return,
because there were a number oftimes when people would go out.

(35:24):
It would be getting dark.
The perspective of thelandscape at that time of the
day changes because of the levelof light.
And not only that, the one thingthat I also learned when I was
very young when you're drivingaway from your destination, you

(35:48):
really need to, every couple ofminutes, turn around and look at
what it looks like going backthe other way, because there's
no nothing really marked right.
This was and this was pre GPS,and you would have to really

(36:08):
look at how it looks going back,because it looks totally
different from a differentperspective, and I would have to
go out and find people you know, and it's not easy.
It's a big place again.
Even with that, I'm going intothis general area.
We always found them, but, likeI mean, you can really get

(36:32):
yourself in.
I don't want to say a lot oftrouble, because, unless you
think, getting eaten alive bymosquitoes and black flies and
spending a night in the boat istrouble, you know, depending on
the person, it can be trouble.
Or pulling up on the shorelineand and uh and and spending the

(36:56):
night, although I would choosethe boat route, um, which I can
honestly and proudly say thatnobody's spent the night away
from the lodge, but we did spenda lot of time with Searchlight
and sending out the guides anddockhands on rescue missions.

(37:19):
So you know, that's one of thethings that you kind of need to
think about when you're doing ityourself.
You've got to be more preparedreally is what you need to do

(37:40):
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Speaker 3 (38:22):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.

(38:44):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal use by
Indigenous peoples all over theglobe.
After nearly a decade of harvestuse, testimonials and research,

(39:06):
my skepticism has faded toobsession and I now spend my
life dedicated to improving thelives of others through natural
means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio's,under the Canopy podcast world.

(39:32):
On Outdoor Journal Radio's,under the Canopy podcast, I'm
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people that will help you findyour outdoor passion and help
you live a life close to nature.
And under the canopy Find.
Under the Canopy now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever
else you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Now, from a lodge owner's point of view, I want to
talk about the economic valueof how guides increase and help
retain your bookings.
And again, I learned this.
I didn't realize when I boughtthe lodge, because 99% of the

(40:15):
places that I went to up until Ibought chaudiere were all
housekeeping, all do-it-yourself, no guides available.
So I just assumed that guideswere there and you know they
would take people out once,because why would you ever take
a guide out on a second tripwhen you get their spots and
then you can just go back.
Well, was I ever wrong?

(40:37):
Guides number one, and thereason that I found that I
wanted to do a break-even modelwith the cost of my guides are
the people that go with thoseguides have much better

(40:58):
experiences.
They return more often, theyhave experiences that are more
outstanding than not and theyare your advertising.
They bring friends, they talkabout their experiences and that

(41:22):
spreads.
Word of mouth spreads and thisin itself is a critical.
This in itself is a critical,critical business advantage to
having people talking about theexperiences that they had at the

(41:43):
lodge and the retention wasgreat.
The new people they talked toand convinced and brought was
paramount, and not that when youcome and do it yourself.
People didn't do that Becausewe worked very hard to create

(42:04):
those experiences.
But with guides you don't justcreate them, you control those
experiences and you will see.
I guarantee to you, you willsee more revenue coming in
faster than without guides.

(42:24):
It is, in my opinion, there isno question.
There is no question, there isno question.
And I built Chaudière from avery, very low occupancy rate to
a very, very good occupancyrate.
You know, depending on how youlooked at it, if you were

(42:46):
looking at cottages rather thanbeds, like if you looked at our
occupancy rate and you werelooking at how many cottages
were booked and you didn't takeinto consideration the bed
nights, the beds, because youcould have a group of three
people, take a four personcottage and you've got one bed

(43:06):
empty but the cottage is full.
You see where I'm going withthat.
My occupancy was pretty closeto 95% when you looked at
cottages across the board when Ileft, and a lot of that.
Well, all of it is experience.
All of it is experience, and ahuge part of that experience

(43:28):
were the guides.
What makes a great guide right,what truly makes a great guide?
And a hundred times out of ahundred.
I take attitude over angling.
There are a ton over angling.

(43:55):
There are a ton Like.
I mean, there's a lot ofoutstanding anglers and and you
can be the best angler on theplanet, but a terrible guide and
the, the.
The traits that I always lookedfor were patience, because
sometimes it takes patience towork with people, especially

(44:17):
when people are are very new tothe, to the sport, and really
have no idea how, what to expect, how to react.
You know, and you need patienceTo go hand in hand with that

(44:37):
adaptability.
You need to be able to look ata group, look at a person,
isolate the person that needsthe most help.
What kind of help?
How to provide that helpwithout making that person

(44:58):
uncomfortable, making it fun foreverybody else.
And it's that adaptability.
Part of it is huge.
And I go back to storytelling,because storytelling fills the
void and creates the experience.
And another huge factor ishumility.

(45:24):
You want to be able to go outand become part of the group.
You don't want to go out andtalk down to the group.
You want to always, rather thantell somebody, plant seeds and
suggest things.

(45:45):
Take yourself as an example.
You know, I remember, and itdoesn't even have.
You don't even have to pointthings out.
If somebody is fishing walleyeand they're trying to set the
hook way too late or themechanics of it are off, pick a

(46:07):
good time and tell a story abouthow, when you learned how to
fish walleye and you don't everdirect the story to anybody.
You tell the story about howyou lost so many walleye because
you didn't know how to set thehook and you tell your story

(46:29):
about yourself and you outlinehow you learned to catch walleye
better, right, and then you cansee if that helps the people in
the boat.
And then you can go from thereback to adaptability adapt to
the situation.
You use humility and and you'reyou're, you're humble with the

(46:55):
people.
And those are some of thetraits that create an
outstanding guide and, you know,really can turn somebody into a
legend.
You know those are some of thekey traits.

(47:19):
Now, as a lodge owner, I didn'tstart well.
I started with Billy, and Billyis a legend bar none and very
specialized in walleye.
Right, but I didn't haveanybody else.
So how do you build, as anowner, a dream team full of

(47:44):
guides?
And you know, for me some of itwas luck.
I had Pat who was a guest.
We worked together for a longtime.
I had a vision and I didn't.
I was never a guide, but I knewI needed to have wonderful

(48:09):
experiences for my guests.
First and foremost, always withme, was experiences and keeping
my finger on the pulse of everygroup, person, couple that
walked through the door, andknowing what their expectations

(48:30):
are and were and how I could domy very best to give them the
experience that they werelooking for.
And I found pretty quickly thatit's tough to find guides and
it's tough to train guides.

(48:50):
So Pat was very good.
Pat was a he's, he's, um,whether he likes it or not, he
was born with the tools to be anoutstanding.
He was born a guide, like he'sjust, he's just that guy.
And and when he was young, um,I, he was young, we worked

(49:11):
together a lot and I voiced myvision of experience and we
talked a lot about how we canimprove experiences and
different things like that.
And he got it.

(49:32):
He got it.
And then once you get that oneguy who understands your vision
and having a vision is one thing, living your vision is another
and if you, I can tell you, ifyou're a lodge owner and you

(49:53):
expect to tell people what yourvision is and expect them to
follow your verbal instructions.
You got another thing comingYou've got to live your vision
and lead by example.
And that part not just for theguides but for all of your staff

(50:18):
that leading by example, doingevery job, never expecting
somebody to do a job that youwouldn't do yourself or haven't
done before in front of them andonce you get a key guide we
together developed I'm going tocall it a mentorship program and

(50:55):
it kind of started with guideson the dock and they started as
dock hands and a lot of dockhands and this is one of the
major points that we did apodcast on how to become a guide
and for young people out there,the best way to become a guide
is to start on the dock, startas a dockhand, because you see

(51:16):
those guides every day, comingin, coming going out.
You're working hand in handwith them and you learn from
them just simply by becomingfriends with them, by absorbing
their information and theirmannerisms and the way that they

(51:37):
react with people, and you canthen build your own style and
see what works, what doesn't.
Start on the dock.
Another way that we built theguide team was local talent,
marcel was local talent, friendsof guides, that's.

(52:02):
You know how Matt came up.
He was a friend of mine and Iknew him.
I knew his angling abilities.
And then the legend PeteStefanik.
He's a buddy of Matt, right?
So you kind of expand yournetwork of people who may fit
the role and then you employthem.
And when you employ them,there's training involved.

(52:26):
But it's not telling, it'sshowing and it's explaining
about the big picture, theoverall experience.
And then you know there'sfeedback, feedback that I, as
the owner, get from my guests.
And if you're not asking yourguests owners out there, you're

(52:49):
not doing your job.
Again, I'll go back to theheartbeat of my business, which
was the dining room.
Every night that I was thereand that was at least five, six
days a week I walked the diningroom, I talked to every guest
and I wanted to know what theirexperiences were like.

(53:12):
And this is how I learned whatmakes a good guide and what
doesn't.
And, off the top of this Imentioned, I take attitude over
angling 100% of the time.
It's because a great guide thisis the conversation that I have

(53:35):
with guests.
When I realize that I have agreat guide, I go up to the
table.
I'm going to take JakeMcAlpine's group as a example
again, because I love Jake.
Jake's in there and I know thathe's been on a guide today.

(53:56):
I walk up to the dining roomtable and Jake and Lori and his
whole group are there and I sayhey guys, how was your day?
That's an outstanding way tostart the conversation and,
knowing they've been on a guide,they 99% of the time will go
right into.

(54:17):
You know what?
It was a great day.
We caught like a hundred fishman.
It was outstanding.
We caught walleye, we caughtpike.
We caught bah, bah, bah, bah,bah, bah, bah.
That conversation is a greatone, but it doesn't exemplify a
great guide.
The conversation that you havewhen you know you've got a great

(54:38):
guide goes like this how wasyour day, jake, laurie, did you
have a good time?
Oh, it was outstanding.
We were with.
I'm going to take Billy thistime.
We were with.
I'm going to take Billy thistime.
We were with Billy and he tookus out to the hydro glyphs and
we saw the ancient paintings onthe rock that the natives

(55:04):
painted and, billy being anative himself, he told us all
kinds of different things abouthow he grew up and you know, he,
he took us out and we saw, um,uh, uh, a moose out in the back
and and it was eating and we gotpictures.
And, um, we, we went, uh, wewent out, uh, we got enough fish

(55:25):
for our shore lunch and, uh, wewent, uh, out to the goose
islands and and, oh my god, itwas beautiful, the sand beach
was outstanding, and we, we gotto go and wade in the water and
we were fishing for, forsmallmouth bass, while Billy got
our lunch ready.
And you know, it was justamazing and that, when people

(55:49):
come back glowing about anexperience that doesn't include
how many fish they caught andall of that kind of thing, but
it's about an experience thatthey had when the fishing wasn't
great, that is the true mark ofan outstanding guide.

(56:10):
That is the true mark of anoutstanding guide, and that is
how lodge owners need to thinkabout that.
And the other thing that I'dlike to quickly touch on before
we leave how to build that dreamteam is how to recruit right

(56:32):
and how to develop, and this initself is a huge topic, one that
I don't claim to know all ofthe answers to, because, you
know, it's very tough to build agreat team, especially when
you've got guides who are veryprotective of their spots and

(56:59):
listen, it's your livelihood andthere's nothing wrong with
guides having you know a coupleof spots that they call their A
spots where they know they'regoing to get shore lunch and
they go out.
But I always I always try tofoster a wonderful team concept.

(57:23):
And when you have a great teamof of guides who truly like each
other and want to help eachother and have clear um, I'm
going to say clear outlines ongood practice, on being

(57:47):
respectful to each other, on notgoing out and looking at where
the other guide is fishing andoh, that's a new spot I better
try that one tomorrow.
Or you know, this is my spot.
Why are you here and pull up onanother guide and start an

(58:08):
argument in the middle of thelake because you're on my spot,
kind of deal.
That is the last thing that youwant and something that is very
real and something that canhappen, and happen very quickly
and get out of control.
So you really need to build theteam aspect and you have to

(58:34):
have an open line ofcommunication between everyone.
Meetings with guides are great,but not meetings, like you know,
get together at the end of the,at the end of the evening, and
and just hang out.
You know, smoke a cigar, dowhatever you know, have a beer
and and talk about your day andremind everybody that they're

(58:57):
part of a team.
And and maybe you know if, ifyou're fishing muskies, you're
fishing walleye, or, and, andmaybe you know if, um, if, uh,
uh, you're fishing muskies,you're fishing walleye, or, and,
and we've got a muskie groupthat wants to do a shore lunch.
You know, team up, right, you,you team up and and and pull up
and do a shore lunch together.
That was another thing that Iwas always very, very open and

(59:20):
supportive of was.
Another thing that I was alwaysvery, very open and supportive
of was groups doing shorelunches together, unless,
obviously, the guests wanted amore intimate setting, and
that's the job of the owner orthe manager to understand the

(59:41):
person's expectations of theexperience before you go out.
So there's building that teamaspect of it, and when you can
build a great team, your guidesdevelop so much faster, they
work together right andeverybody contributes to the

(01:00:02):
development of everybody else.
It needs to be.
I'll go back to the symbioticrelationship, a relationship
that helps everybody in thegroup and and that is is huge.
And then recruiting where do youfind guides?
Well, I kind of alluded to thefact that I used to lean on

(01:00:25):
locals, but a lot of times thelocals don't really fit the mold
for the experience that youwant, and sometimes a hardened
guide who has been doing it fora long time is just that they're

(01:00:46):
a little hardened and they'rein and it can.
Vetting them very well, gettingto know their attitude before

(01:01:13):
you hire them is huge, and thenyou can bring them on and then
develop them.
And again, the dock hand, um,uh, mentorship idea.
I don't want to call it aprogram, but the mentorship of
dock hands is also huge becausewhat it does is it gives your

(01:01:34):
dock hands a goal they want toguide and you can put them into
those guide situations slowlyand pick the right situations.
And once you learn thatdockhand and you figure out what
their strengths are, you canhelp integrate them into the

(01:01:59):
guide rotation in a way thatnumber one doesn't upset the
apple cart when it comes to theteam and number two gives them
the best opportunity to succeed.
And and that is is a way thatand I developed a few guides in

(01:02:22):
that we'll call it a program andthat you know.
That brings me to another topicwith the team and the guides and
the guests that I want to touchon, and this is solely from the
perspective of a owner, andthat is the art, and it is an

(01:02:46):
art of matching guests with theright guide.
Now you'll get guests whospecifically will request a
guide in particular because theylove that person and they want
to spend time with that person,and that is one of the best.
That is one of the best.

(01:03:09):
What am I trying to say here?
That is one of the best reasons.
That is one of the bestcompliments.
There we go, spit it out,compliments that a guest can pay
to a guide, out of everything,and the thing is you never want

(01:03:30):
to break that.
You never want to break that.
So when it's easy, when a guesttells you what guide they want,
it's a matter of scheduling,that's it.
But when you have people thatare unfamiliar with guides, who
tell you what they're lookingfor but don't know who to go
with, it's very, very importantto, first of all, as the owner

(01:03:58):
or manager, when you have thatperson on the phone or in front
of you at the lodge when you'reselling that guide, get to know
who the person is, understandtheir expectations of the
experience, and sometimes theydon't know what they want and it
comes down to you feeling outtheir personality and sometimes

(01:04:24):
you have to do this in a five orten minute conversation with
that person, but it's very, verypossible.
I was very good at it.
I don't want to sound conceitedat all, I was just.
I'm good at feeling people andyou know your guides intimately

(01:04:55):
and you're like a matchmaker andit's very, very important,
because if a person is lookingto go and catch walleye for the
first time and have a shorelunch and is amazing, and have a
shore lunch and is amazing, andthat's what they want to do,
then the answer is Billy.
But if that person doesn't likesomebody who smokes, sorry,

(01:05:15):
Billy, that ain't you.
You know what I mean.
So there are so many differentand little factors that you need
to take into consideration whenit comes to matching your
guests with your guides, andgreat matches make unbelievable

(01:05:39):
memories.
Poor matches, on the other hand, and although your team of
guides are all outstanding, eachone of them has strengths and
weaknesses and if you match thewrong guide with the wrong group
of guests.
All of a sudden things can gosideways and you would rather

(01:06:07):
make sure that you create theexperience in your mind that you
know that they want first,rather than have to take your
guide aside after a day whereyou don't have a thousand
percent awesome experience andhave to use that as a teaching

(01:06:31):
situation with your guidebecause the guests weren't very
happy.
And again, there's lots ofdifferent things.
And I mentioned the smoking offthe top because that was one of
those things that I had tolearn and it only took one.
It only took one right, andyou're not going to change a

(01:06:51):
smoker.
So I changed my way of doingthings and I made sure that you
know if people I would explain,you know some of our guides
smoked you have a problem withthat.
I had one guy who well, acouple of guys who would, who
would chew, chewing tobacco, andyou know you can, you can go

(01:07:16):
and you can tell somebody youknow you can't chew when you're
on the boat, like it's.
That's unacceptable, you can'tchew or you can't smoke.
But I tried that and I foundwhat happened was they would do
it anyway because it's anaddiction and they would try to

(01:07:40):
not do it, but, in turn, wouldmake them turn, would lower
their vibration, would put themin a bad mood, and it was just a
better solution for me to takethat into consideration with the

(01:08:00):
guests that I was pairing myguides with, and a lot of them
would say, ah, that's no problem, we smoke cigars too, so you
mean we can smoke cigars on theboat and turn that into a
positive, rather than put asmoking guide with a family with
three young kids who is aredead set against it.

(01:08:23):
Right.
So that in itself, is is a keytrait for an owner to learn, and
and you do have to learn andyou will learn from mistakes,
and it's, it's, um, it'ssomething that you just have to

(01:08:43):
go through as an owner whenyou're managing groups of people
and that comes down to thetraining aspect with your guides
Sometimes you get in a jam andyou know you're putting a group
with a guide and you may have abetter match, but that match is

(01:09:06):
already taken.
So in that case you need to setthat guide, sit down with that
guide prior to and, rather thantell the guide he has to react
this way and blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, you talk to your
guide and you explain who hisguests are and what they like

(01:09:29):
and maybe talk about somestrategies to give them the
experience that they are lookingfor.
Right, there's always a betterway to convey a idea or a
thought rather than telling.

(01:09:50):
Telling is not good.
And that brings me to anotherarea with the guiding, and that
is cultural sensitivity, right,and inclusivity on the water,
and you know I'm not much of allthis cultural inclusion and all

(01:10:16):
of this other stuff when itcomes to you know, people
getting jobs and there's peoplethat are better qualified that
don't because of you know that Ido not agree with never, have,
never will I love.
You know I'm a fairest.
I like everything fair.

(01:10:39):
Best person gets the job.
I love people from alldifferent races, creeds, colors.
You know there's great peopleeverywhere and sometimes you
need to make sure that you talkto your guides about diverse

(01:11:01):
guests, right, like one examplewas we had a wonderful couple, a
Jewish couple, and they wantedto do a shore lunch, but
everything had to be kosher.
But everything had to be kosherand I really didn't have a whole

(01:11:25):
lot of experience with the ideaof kosher and it was actually
it was quite a lot.
They brought all of their owngear, right down to the frying
pan.
They had a special knife thatwe had to use and if I'm and I
might be mistaken, but I'mpretty sure that he said it had

(01:11:48):
been blessed by a rabbi.
But and I could be wrong I justremember that they had a
specific knife that had to beused.
They had all all of theircooking gear was very specific
be used.
They had all.
All of their cooking gear wasvery specific and and it was.
It was something that that Iwanted to provide them.

(01:12:09):
They were great people.
I didn't want them to go outand all of a sudden something
happened and and they can't eattheir fish because it was cooked
improperly.
So, going back to the point,before pairing your guides with
guests, the guide that jumpedout to me for this was Pat,

(01:12:34):
because Pat is very adaptable,intelligent and thoughtful in
those ways.
You know Billy again, he is thewalleye king.
He provides an experience thatis second to none.
But for me to try and tellBilly that he has to not use his

(01:12:58):
knife anymore, you have to usethis knife and you can't use
your frying pan.
You have to use this frying pan.
You have to use this knife andyou can't use your frying pan,
you have to use this frying pan.
You have to do it like this.
You can't use the oil orwhatever it was.
You got to put this in and yougot to cook it this way.
I knew that that putting Billyin that position was not putting

(01:13:21):
Billy in a position to succeed,so I chose Pat for that task
and Pat did an outstanding joband and and it and it's that
whole cultural idea of havingdifferent people.
You know, there's a lot, of, alot of and and it's a wonderful,

(01:13:42):
wonderful resource andexperience to share with people
from different cultures fromacross the world, from India to
to Africa, to all of thesedifferent places, and in some
ways, it's so much moreenjoyable to take those people

(01:14:04):
out and show them things thatthey have never seen and share
the unforgettable French Riverand all of its beauty with
people that really are awestruck.
And that is key as well.

(01:14:25):
And as an owner and we'll talka lot more about this I had a
great conversation with ValGaynor up at the lodge about
this very thing, and it was morehow our lodge is going to
survive going into the futurewith our, with our um, our

(01:14:46):
cultural um, with the culturalchanges we're seeing happen
rapidly in this country, whichare good.
There it is what it is, there'sall kinds of great people and,
and that whole inclusiveness forfor, uh, immigrants in Val's

(01:15:07):
words, who is an immigrant fromRomania himself, uh, years ago,
mind you um is a great, greattopic and something that needs
to be.
Well, if I was still in thebusiness, I would be focusing
fairly heavily on that as well,because there's such a great

(01:15:27):
market out there for people thatjust don't know what kind of
experiences that they can have.
And, again, it comes down to alittle bit of training with your
guides, right, because you'vegot to be respectful in ways.
Right, Go back to the kosherthing.
Right, you want to be veryrespectful of the traditions and

(01:15:53):
the I don't want to call themrules because they're I guess
they're kind of like rules butthe ways that these people live
their lives.
You've got to be inclusive andopen to those ideas and make
people feel comfortable in yourboat and in your presence with

(01:16:14):
those ideas, and that, above allelse, creates unforgettable
experiences.
And the other thing, too, withyour guides, moving on from that
topic, is I myself, more sothan probably anybody, was very

(01:16:39):
worried about being a greatsteward of the resource, because
that was my bread and butter.
Let's be real.
A fishing lodge needs fish.
There are all of these otherexperiences that you can pack
around fishing, but you need tohave that resource and you need

(01:17:01):
that resource thriving to have athriving business.
There's ways of doing itwithout that, but it's not a
fishing lodge Now, you're anecotourism lodge and there's
great value in that as well,value in that as well.

(01:17:27):
But you really need to be agreat steward of your resource
and your guides play a vitalrole in that, in conservation,
in teaching proper handling ofthe fish, like one of the things
that I learned, especially withwalleye, the upper French river
.
By the time you hit end of Julyinto August and September,
those walleye are schooling withsmall mouth in, you know, 35 to

(01:17:52):
45 feet of water and deeper.
But we never fished any deeperthan than 45 feet, or at least I
didn't.
And that was part of the partof the education that I was, I
was giving to the, the guides,because what happens is in 40
feet of water, 42, 45 feet ofwater, when you're jigging for

(01:18:14):
walleye on the bottom, if youhook a walleye and you reel it
up like lightning, like reallyfast, because you're you're
because you're a new angler,you're just learning what a
walleye feels like and you're soexcited to get it in the boat.
You burn that prick right upfrom the bottom and all of a

(01:18:35):
sudden, once that walleye hitsthe top of the water, its body
is hard and then the swimbladder pops right out of its
mouth because there's very fewspecies of freshwater fish that
can actually equalize from thepressure of being down 40 feet.

(01:18:56):
Right, they can if you bringthem up slow and give them a
chance to equalize as they come.
Lake trout can burp air out oftheir swim bladder to equalize.
Walleye have a hard time doingthat.
So part of the conservation iseducating as a guide.

(01:19:20):
Educating your guests iseducating as a guide.
Educating your guests.
And this happens when you haveto find walleye that are in 40
feet of water because they'rereally tough to find anywhere
else and you need to have shorelunge Like that is a priority.
Educate your guests on when youhook them.
Keep your rod tip taunt, keepit tight, keep a tight line and

(01:19:44):
reel it up slow when they pulldrag.
Don't reel over the drag.
Let the, let the fish pull thedrag, use the bend in the rod as
a as a as a tensioner to keeptension there and when they stop
pulling, drag, keep thattension and reel again and bring
them up nice and slow.
That way, if they're not in theslot or you already have your

(01:20:05):
limit, you can release that fishand it's going to swim back
down and get back to where itneeds to be and be no worse for
the wear.
So that is educating on fishingpractices and how to catch fish
and that's also teaching properhandling of that fish and also

(01:20:30):
teaching people how to releasethat fish.
And again, that goes for everyspecies across the board.
You know, when you're looking atmuskie fishing, there's proper
handling of those fish and I wasalways a proponent of.
You know this was a topic andactually you know what I'm going

(01:20:52):
to make a note to next time.
We've got Matt O'Brien on,we're going to talk about this
in a little bit but Matt was abig proponent of not letting the
guests hold their fish, theirmuskies, because they're big
creatures.
They are majestically wonderful, awesome creatures and you know

(01:21:16):
, when you start catching fishthat are over 50 inches long,
there's not a whole lot of themout there even 45s, right.
So when you hand that over to aguest, you're relying on that
guest to number one, not drop it.
Number two, well, number one,not hurt themselves.
Number two, not hurt the fish.

(01:21:38):
And number three, not hurt thefish.
And and number three, getpictures and it back in the
water in a in a timely fashion.
And, um, my point of view wasthe guest always gets to hold
the fish.
It's it's the responsibility ofthe guide to teach that guest

(01:22:00):
how to properly hold that fish,even before they catch it.
That's part of your discussionin the boat.
That's part of the experienceis talking at length if
necessary on proper handlingpractices and teaching that
guest how to hold that fish.

(01:22:22):
Obviously, if the guest seesthe fish and says, oh my God,
you can hold that, for me thatis absolutely acceptable and we
always had ways.
I would a lot of times whenpeople didn't want to hold that
fish, I would hold the fish andstretch my arms way out in front

(01:22:43):
of me and have that personstand up between myself and the
fish in between my arms and thentake the picture that way, with
the fish out in front of them,and I would hide behind them.
Sometimes you hardly even knewit wasn't their arms holding the
fish in the photo, right?
But if somebody wants to holdthat fish, if somebody has paid

(01:23:07):
thousands of dollars to come toone of the number one musky
angling bodies of water in theworld to find that trophy, one
of a lifetime fish, they, in myopinion, it's their right to

(01:23:28):
hold that fish.
And that was one of the notarguments, not arguments.
It was one of the topics ofdebate that I would have with

(01:23:54):
some of my muskie guides andanglers alike.
So you know in closing, youknow whether it's your first
cast or your thousandth cast.
A great fishing guide does morethan just put you on fish.
They help you understand therhythm of the water, the pulse

(01:24:14):
of the lake, and the storiesthat they can tell while they're
doing it are second to none Fordo-it-yourself adventurers.
There is definitely a place forthat and we've discussed it.
But I can tell you a seasonedguide can turn a fishing trip

(01:24:37):
into a memory that will last youa lifetime.
So you know what, the next timeyou're planning a trip up north
, just consider the value ofthat local knowledge, because it
is very real, and the storiesthat you get in the boat that
you can then repeat around thecampfire that night and the

(01:25:01):
quiet moments on the water thata guide and only a guide can
really give you, those momentswhen you don't have to worry
about all of those things thatwe mentioned earlier, like
getting lost, because in the end, it's not just about catching

(01:25:22):
fish, it's about connecting withthe land, the water and all of
the people that are around youin that boat and folks.
If you've got this far, thankyou so much for listening to
this episode.
I really, really appreciate itand I appreciate you and listen.

(01:25:46):
Our numbers have been growingand that is so awesome.
But I would love for you totell somebody to listen to one
of these episodes.
Pick your favorite and bringsomebody else on and write down
some comments.
You can comment on one of theseepisodes.

(01:26:06):
Pick your favorite and uh, andbring somebody else on and, um
and uh, write down some comments.
You can comment on Apple uh, um, uh, podcasts or um, wherever
you know, like and do all ofthat stuff.
All these different platformsdo it a little bit different, um
, but uh, your comments reallyhelp you know how to get a hold
of us.
You can get me at steve atfishincanadacom and Willie at

(01:26:26):
Two Rivers Lodge.
And again, thank you to ourwonderful sponsors at Lakeside
Marina.
They are the best when it comesto just about everything and
number one in customer service,which is huge um and uh.
And head on over to thefishincanadacom website where

(01:26:49):
you can get into free giveaways.
The boys are on the road.
They're uh up at hawk lakelodge, uh, with teddy putnam and
uh, I, uh, I, uh I missed outon this one.
We're spreading, spreading thelove between Dino and Pete and
Nick and Ange and I.
So I backed off of this firstshoot of the year, which was

(01:27:13):
hard, heartbreaking butnecessary.
I've got so much work aroundhere with the island and I'm
actually, with this guidingpodcast, thinking, not thinking
I've decided that, yeah, I'mgoing to throw my name in the

(01:27:36):
hat as far as guiding andrenting the island and sharing
that French River experiencewith people.
Again, it is one of the thingsthat I miss dearly about not
owning the lodge on the French,and I do have the ability to

(01:27:58):
rent out cottages.
I have my main cottage and abunkie and I've got a second
bunkie that I'd stay in and havegroups of people up, and you
can do it yourself or you cantake me as a guide.
So if you're interested inbooking a trip on the French
River to do that, again you knowhow to get me Reach out, let me

(01:28:22):
know and we can talk about somedates going into the fall.
So again, fish and Canada freestuff.
Thank you very, very much forlistening and don't forget to
thank our wonderful producer,anthony Mancini.
And thus brings us to theconclusion of another episode of

(01:28:44):
Diaries of a Lodge OwnerStories of the North.

Speaker 3 (01:28:49):
I'm a good old boy, never meanin', no harm.
I'll be the all you ever sawBeen railin' in the hog since
the day I was born.
Bendin' my, my rock, stretchingmy line.

Speaker 5 (01:29:08):
Someday I might own a lodge, and that'd be fine.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
I'll be making my way , the only way I know how.

Speaker 4 (01:29:21):
Working hard and sharing the north with all of my
pals.
Well, I'm a good old boy.
I bought a lodge and lived mydream, and now I'm here talking

(01:29:54):
about how life can be as good asit seems.
Yeah, yeah, hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola, yeah, righthere in your ears, bringing you
a brand new episode of OutdoorJournal Radio.
Hmm, now, what are we going totalk about for two hours every
week?
Well, you know there's going tobe a lot of fishing.

Speaker 5 (01:30:07):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.

Speaker 4 (01:30:12):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors, from athletes, All theother guys would go golfing Me,
and Garton Turk and all theRussians would go fishing To
scientists.

Speaker 5 (01:30:26):
Now that we're reforesting and it's the perfect
transmission environment forlife.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
, you will taste it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:38):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.

Speaker 5 (01:30:54):
Back in 2016,.
Frank and I had a vision toamass the single largest
database of muskie anglingeducation material anywhere in
the world.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community to amass thesingle largest database of
muskie angling educationmaterial anywhere in the world.
Our dream was to harness theknowledge of this amazing
community and share it withpassionate anglers just like you
.

Speaker 5 (01:31:09):
Thus the Ugly Pike Podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North
America.

Speaker 2 (01:31:16):
Step into the world of angling adventures and
embrace the thrill of the catchwith the Ugly Pike Podcast.
Join us on our quest tounderstand what makes us
different as anglers and touncover what it takes to go
after the infamous fish of10,000 casts.

Speaker 5 (01:31:30):
The Ugly Pike podcast isn't just about fishing.
It's about creating atight-knit community of
passionate anglers who share thesame love for the sport Through
laughter, through camaraderieand an unwavering spirit of
adventure.
This podcast will bring peopletogether.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our
angling adventures.

Speaker 5 (01:31:48):
Tight lines everyone find ugly pike now on spotify,
apple podcasts or wherever elseyou get your podcasts.