Episode 103: Hearst Air - Flying Dreams and Northern Memories

Stepping off a float plane into the pristine wilderness of Northern Ontario – tired, dirty, and utterly happy – is the moment Melanie Veilleux lives for. As the owner of Hearst Air, she's witnessed this transformation countless times over nearly five decades in the outfitting business.

Born into the family operation when her father pursued his dream of bush plane flying, Melanie offers rare insight into a world few get to experience. Her seven remote outpost camps provide trophy pike and walleye fishing where anglers have entire lakes to themselves, creating the perfect environment for that increasingly precious commodity: genuine disconnection.

Beyond the stunning fishing at locations like Quantz Lake and Napkin Lake, Melanie pulls back the curtain on the complex logistics behind fly-in operations. The vintage Beaver aircraft that serve as lifelines to these remote camps require specialized maintenance and parts that haven't been manufactured since the 1970s. Every pound loaded onto these planes must be carefully calculated, from propane tanks to coffee pots – because forgetting even small items means costly extra flights.

The conversation ventures into the therapeutic nature of wilderness experiences, the shift toward conservation among anglers, and the challenges of maintaining personal connections with guests while running three interconnected businesses. After watching multiple generations of families create memories in her camps, Melanie now contemplates her own next adventure and what it means to potentially step away from a lifetime in the bush.

Whether you're dreaming of trophy pike, seeking to understand the realities of outpost camp operations, or simply craving stories from someone who's dedicated their life to sharing Canada's wilderness with others, this candid conversation offers both practical wisdom and heartfelt reflections on a truly unique way of life.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
I think my favorite time of of the day, of the week,
of the month, all all of thatis when the plane lands from
going to pick someone up and theguys come off the plane and
they're they're dirty andthey're tired and they're
exhausted and and they're sohappy like they're.

(00:26):
There's no stress in theirshoulders, they're just
genuinely well and I feel I feelreally proud in that moment and
they're just so happy and theyimmediately, immediately, will
say I can't wait to be here nextyear.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
This week on the Outdoor Journal, radio Podcast
Networks, diaries of a LodgeOwner.
Stories of the North.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Folks, we have the pleasure to talk with an
outstanding young lady fromHearst, ontario.
I first met her at one of thefew trade shows I did early in
my tenure at Chaudière and sheinstantly became an inspiration
to me.
At the time she had alreadybeen part of the northern-based

(01:14):
tourism industry for threedecades the kicker we are the
same age.
She has literally spent herlifetime in the industry and is
one of our finest.
Now it is my pleasure tointroduce all of you to Melanie
Villiers On this show.

(01:35):
Mel and I talk about thedifferences and similarities
between our business models Anall-inclusive resort versus
fly-in outpost camps.
We tell some great stories andlearn a little bit from each
other.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
So, folks, if you have, ever been interested in
anything planes, lakes andoutpost camps this one's
definitely for you.
Here's my conversation withMelanie Villiers.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Welcome folks to another episode of Diaries of a
Lodge Owner and I am extremelyexcited to have Mel from Hearst
Air and Mel is no stranger to meor the Fishing Canada
television show.
We've shot multiple shows withher and I had the honor of

(02:29):
flying into Quance Lake andexperiencing the outstanding
fishing that you get when you goin and you've got the whole
lake to yourself and a beautifullittle cabin and it was a
wonderful experience.
And Mel, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, thank you.
Thank you so much for thinkingabout me, and this is fun.
I'm glad to chat with you inanother setting, a different
setting, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Mel's up in Hearst and I am coming to you live kind
of from the Upper French Riverat the cottage, so it's relaxing
settings, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yes, I'm also looking out at the lake and the plains
on the dock, and always a niceview.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Oh, yeah for sure.
So, Mel, let's kind of start atthe beginning for you with
Herstair.
I know it's a family operationand you're the head of the
operation.
Now I would say I'm not sure,but you're the one that I've

(03:46):
seen for years at all of theshows and I think did we do a
trip to New York one time.
That's right.
Yeah, that was a great trip.
Maybe we'll get into that later, who knows?
But tell me a little bit abouthow you got into this business.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, from the start I guess that's a long time ago,
because I was just a year oldwhen my parents started this Wow
, so I'm literally born andraised into it yeah, my father
worked for the township here inHearst and he always dreamt of
flying, got his pilot's licenseand then, when he was about 30

(04:29):
to 35, I guess, decided to justgo for it and he bought a
portion of an existing airservice and the float flying
part of it and the fishing campsthere were just a few and then
just built it up from there.
So, yeah, ever since then I'veI've been here, um, I've I've

(04:53):
always you know it's, it's beena lifestyle all my life uh, done
shows, sports shows, since Iwas about seven years old.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
So what were the sports shows like back then?
Like, I mean, I bought theLodge in 2009, chaudière and I
remember hearing stories,especially one of the former
owners of Chaudière.
His name was Tony Stinson.
Tony and Betsy owned Chaudièrefor years, from the early 70s,

(05:25):
maybe late 60s, right through tothe 90s, and he came.
It was funny because as soon asI bought the lodge, I bought it
from a fellow from Indiana bythe name of Jerry Noel, but my
real estate agent, brian Dykstra, who is, I'm going to say,
famous in that business ofselling lodges Everybody knows

(05:48):
Brian from north to south andBrian, the first suggestion he
made to me was call Tony Stinson, steve, call Tony and see if
there's anybody that he knowsthat you should contact and this
and that.
And I called Tony and in 2009,tony was in his mid 80s for sure

(06:09):
and I had heard stories of himbeing larger than life and all
of these stories.
So I phoned Tony and he stillhad the same home number, still
living in the same house, and heactually come to the Sportsman
Show and met me there.

(06:32):
It was either the SportsmanShow or the Spring Fishing Show,
one of the two in my first year, so this would have been the
spring of 2010.
And he looked at the booth.
He looked at me 2010.
And he looked at the booth.
He looked at me and the firsttwo things he said was you got
any beer under there under thetable?
And I said beer under the table.

(06:54):
He said yeah, everybody's gotbeer under the table.
I said no, I didn't get thatmemo, tony.
And he said how old are you?
I said I'm 33.
He said you are crazy.
What are you doing?
Buying a fishing lodge?
I said well, you know, I just Ilove the idea and I want to,

(07:15):
and I want to.
This is what I want to do.
And he said oh, okay, and youdon't have any beer.
So I said well, what were the?
What were the?
The shows that you went to?
He said well, every every showwe went to, every uh lodge, uh

(07:39):
owner, in their booth they had acooler full of beer, either
behind the uh, behind the, thewall or under the table.
I said I don't know if it'slike that anymore.
Do you remember those days?

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Oh God yes, well, I mean, when I was little we used
to meet my parents at theToronto show because it was
during our March break, but Iwas seven or eight years old,
but I remember all theoutfitters back then.
For sure they were liquored upand we'd go for supper

(08:09):
afterwards too and end up inthese restaurants.
My gosh, seeing things Iprobably shouldn't have at that
age yeah, no doubt I can imagine, yeah, oh, but yeah, it kind of
.
I think it just went with thelifestyle.
You know, for us we're in theoutpost business, so we don't

(08:32):
spend the week with the guests,we're.
You know, they show up, we seethem, fly them in, and we don't
see them for a week.
But when you have a lodge, likewhat you lived, you're with
those people all the time andthey're on vacation.
So everybody must be like hey,steve, stop by our cabin, come
have a beer, come have a beer.
So it's just, I mean it, it, um, it can get to you and then it

(08:59):
just becomes your lifestyle,whether you're at the lodge or
not.
So that's, that's kind of whatI witnessed all those older
people.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah Well, the guy that in that first year his name
was Mike Apron and I and I'mpretty sure I've told the story
on the show before, but if Ihaven't, um, I've told it many
times and he had a trailer parkon rice lake and, uh, his booth
was right next to me and againhe was like what are you doing?

(09:29):
You bought a fishing lodge.
He says, listen, I'll.
And this is at the beginning.
He says I'll tell you how tomake a million bucks.
I said, oh and, and at thattime I was, I was green and had
like minus money, I had no moneyat all.
And now I'm thinking, oh man,I'm.
And I was priming myself forthis wonderful piece of

(09:52):
information.
And he said to me he said,steve, the way you make a
million dollars in the lodgebusiness is start with two.
And I thought, oh no.
I heard that oh yeah, no doubt.
And uh, I um at the.
But at the end of the week, um,and we got, we were joking with

(10:13):
each other and he, just a greatguy, mountain of a man, like he
was probably a foot taller thanme and I'm about six feet, so
maybe not a foot, but he wastaller than me, I'm big.
And I remember we were packingup our booths and he looked at
me and put his big hand on myshoulder and he said listen,

(10:37):
steve, I've been thinking thisweek about a piece of
information that I can give youthat'll really help you.
And this is it.
Take it for what it's worth.
But he looked at me and he saidthere's two kinds of lodge
owners and only one of themsurvive.

(10:58):
There's the ones that drink andthe ones that don't.
Make sure you choose wisely.
And at the time, like I had, Ihadn't even opened the doors,
like I had never been up.
I had been up to the lodge tosee it before I bought it and I
hadn't even been back.
And I I thought about that andI'm like well, you know, I don't

(11:21):
drink, I'm not an alcoholic, Idrink with my buddies on the
weekends and this and that andeverything else.
And after a few years it'sfunny what you said about you
know everybody's on holidays andall of that.
Because number one, the lodgebusiness and being an owner is

(11:42):
very, very stressful Like thereis a lot of shit going on.
You've got your guests that youwant to keep happy.
You've got shit that's breakingdown.
You know septic systems to lookafter cottages, to look after
beds that need made boats thatare hitting rocks, like I mean
it's just, oh, it's a hugeundertaking and you're right

(12:09):
when you build thoserelationships with those people,
especially when they'rereturning guests.
As soon as they hit the dockthey're like Steve, yeah, let's
have a beer Because they're.
And I quickly realized that Icould be pissed drunk every day

(12:29):
for free just by visitingcottages, and I see how easy it
is to fall into that trap.
That trap and those words thathe said to me really helped me
because I realized that I could.

(12:51):
I had to be the one that didn'tdrink and as time progressed,
like we would have jam nightsand I would invite everybody
down because the main lodge wasthe heartbeat of my business.
That's where people would getto know each other and then by
the end of the week you hadguests that had met each other

(13:11):
there and they're like hey, youhave a good time.
Yeah, I had a good time.
I really appreciate meeting you.
Are you coming back next year?
Well, we kind of thought aboutmaybe coming back, oh okay, well
, we're're gonna come back too.
Why don't you come the sameweek?
yeah, yeah, and then you startgetting these people coming up

(13:32):
before they're leaving and thenbooking tentatively, booking
weeks together and that's themagic.
But at the jam nights like Iwould I would always have one of
the serving staff typicallygirls, but sometimes guys and I
would tell them listen, I've gota whiskey glass here, I'm

(13:55):
playing guitar and I'mentertaining and I'm doing
everything.
Your job tonight, number one,is to look after the guests and
number two, make sure my whiskeyglass.
One is to look after the guestsand number two, make sure my
whiskey glass does not go emptyof ginger ale.
And I would have that glass ofginger ale in front of me
because it looked like I wasdrinking, because as soon as

(14:17):
you're not drinking witheverybody else, they're feeding
you, and I wanted my girls orguys to be feeding me the ginger
ale so that my glass was neverempty so somebody else couldn't
fill it up.
Fill it up, yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
You know what I?

Speaker 3 (14:33):
mean, oh yeah, and I got thinking.
Just here on the Upper FrenchRiver there's three lodges in
fairly close proximity inoperation today Lunge Lodge, um,
chaudière and uh.
Used to be Casablanca.
Now it's called the Tilted Tookand um.

(14:56):
When you look back in historyand and inevitably you've got
guests that have been coming toChaudière for 40, 50, 50 years
and they dabble each way andthey always hear the local
folklore and everything else andevery lodge owner other than

(15:16):
Tony Tony was an exception, butevery lodge owner we're going

(15:45):
back two sets of lodge owners atthe earlier two sets at Lunge,
a couple of sets over atCasablanca and the former owner
of Chaudière.
All were alcoholics and all hadaccidents and a couple of them
didn't make it through theiralcoholism.
The guy that I bought it from,jerry he ended up and I didn't
know this, but in 2009, when Ilooked at Chaudière, he was
there and I was up with my buddy, mike uh skace.

(16:07):
He's a real estate agent tolook at it and I remember when
we left, well, he picked us upat seven o'clock at the dock.
I was going to take my boat andhe didn't want me to take the
boat.
The fishing was piss poor in2009 here and I was a fisherman
and I'm pretty sure he wastrying to steer me away from
from actually fishing.

(16:27):
So, yeah, anyway, he picked usup in his big Boston whaler and,
um, I remember I was backing mybass boat into the uh, into the
river, with my uh at the marinaand he's like, hey, you Steve?
And I said yeah, you Jerry.

(16:49):
He said, yeah, do you like yourprop?
And I said yeah, as a matter offact, I do like it.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
He said leave it on the trailer then.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I said well, I got GPS and everything Doesn't
matter.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
You're going to fuck up your prop.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
So I said okay, so I I left it on, I pulled it back
out, put it on the trailer, goton the boat and you know those
big I don't know whether they'rethey're 16 ounce water glasses,
like those heavy, big.
Don't know whether they're16-ounce water glasses, like
those heavy, big water glassesthat you get served to you full
of water.
Yeah, he had one of those rightfull of scotch on the boat when

(17:36):
he was picking us up.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Oh yeah, and he took us back and we come up to the
main lodge and sat down and hetold us some drunken stories and
he didn't look all that drunkbut he drank that glass full on
the way back to the lodge andthen he had a wee cabinet behind
his lazy boy chair that healways sat in in the main lodge

(18:02):
boy chair that he always sat inin the main lodge.
And he had a bottle of well,several bottles, but he was
working on one, on a bottle ofValentine's scotch, and he
poured another.
He said you guys want a beer ora scotch or something.
And I had just come fromfishing a bass tournament.

(18:22):
Mike met me halfway up and wesaid okay, and we drank two
beers and he drank another glassand a half of Scott just
straight up, warm, right out ofthe right out of the bottle.
And when we left to go to thecottage that we were staying in,
mike looked at me and he saiddid you see that?
And I said I said see what hesaid.

(18:47):
Did you see him fill that glassup again and then fill it again
?
And I said, yeah, I saw it.
Anyway, next morning we woke upand we went down and one of the
girls had brought him a glassof orange juice and she said to
him I made it just like you likeit.

(19:07):
He said, okay, good, and lateron because I hired that girl,
her name was Becky Hawk, shecome and work for me the year
after and she said, yeah, thatwas vodka.
He had vodka and orange juicefor breakfast and then started
into the scotch, usuallysometime after lunch.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well, you probably couldn't stop.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
I mean you can't stop .
No, no.
And then he, he, he got outafter drinking his breakfast.
Uh, he got up and, um, he wasstumbling a little bit and he
was holding his ribs.
And I said you okay, jerry?
He said yeah, yeah, I fell downthe stairs the other night.
I was on my way up carrying myglass of milk before I went to

(19:54):
bed.
Maybe he was drinking milk, Idon't know, but the man was so
gripped by alcohol it was crazy.
And as we walked around out onthe main, like from cottage to
cottage, and he was showing usaround, he was a fairly slight

(20:15):
man, like he was maybe 5'6",5'7" and had like skinny
shoulders, a skinny chest,skinny legs and this big pot
belly.
But literally we could hear itsloshing around, like you could
hear the liquid in his guts andyeah, it was crazy.

(20:42):
We got into the truck after thiswhole episode when I was taking
Mike down to where I'd met him,and he looked at me and he said
I don't think that I've evermet a person that I think is
going to die from drinking, thatI think is going to die from

(21:07):
drinking.
And two weeks later Jerrycollapsed at the lodge and
refused to go to a Canadianhospital and his brother flew up
from Indiana, took him home.
They got him dried out and hedid survive, but he only.

(21:29):
He lived for another 10 yearsand he died about eight or nine
years ago.
And again it was, he was back,he never kicked it, he never
kicked it right.
So alcoholism and lodges theykind of go.

(21:49):
At least in those days theywent hand in hand, and probably
still to this day for that typeof operation.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Well, yeah, I think I mean.
Well, yes, it's not probably,it's probably less, I would
think, but it's still existingand it's so hard on couples too.
Um, you know it's hard on oneverybody to be um, to be
working that much and, like yousaid, just the stressors.

(22:18):
And it's seven days a week, youdon't, you don't get time off
and you know you get aches andpains.
You got to suck it up.
So, hey, just have a coupledrinks and work through it, and
then you have to be raising yourkids or be working with your
spouse through that, trying tobe sane.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
It's just not a challenge, it's a tough gig,
yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, I was lucky there.
I didn't.
Melissa was at home with thekids when I was at the lodge for
and I would, I would go home,for well, in the first couple of
years I really didn't go homemuch, and that was when the kids
were young.
Like, we had three kids underthe age of six at that time.

(23:06):
And then, yeah, yeah, thatfirst, the first year, I
remember I wasn't sure whether Iwas going to lose the lodge, go
broke, get divorced or make it.
And yeah, those were tough days.
Those were tough days, but weended up making it through, you
know.
But, um, it's, it's hard when,when you've got a wife at home

(23:30):
and she's having the kids aren'tsleeping, they're well, they're
babies, and, uh, we were lucky,she had, uh, she had a good, uh
, support system at home withher mom and dad and my mom and
dad, and you know.
So we, we got through, but, um,it was uh, it was tough, and
you know what, I was so busytrying to figure shit out, I

(23:53):
didn't even have time to drink.
And you know what?
I remember too, the first, uh,when, when we were opening.
Um, I remember one night we gotinto it and, um, I had all my
buddies there and my brothers,and we were opening and and and
um, it was probably gettingclose to there was a lot of work

(24:16):
to do yet and not and you knowwhat I mean and and opening is
coming quick.
There's no pushing that off.
And I remember the one thing Iwill say is it would have
probably been better if mom hadwaited until I was sober, but
she pulled me aside and tore astrip off of me.

(24:37):
I remember her crying tellingme you can't be doing this, you
can't be drinking like this withall your buddies who are here
to help us get this place ready.
And then tomorrow morning, whenwe're supposed to be working,
you guys are all going to behung over and nothing's going to
get done.
And the next thing, you know,come, whatever it was Friday,
come for this Friday.

(24:58):
We're all leaving you here Likewe're going home and you're on
your own.
So you better, you bettersmarten up, you know, and I
remember that conversation andthat stuck with me well to this
day.
So I I really didn't have aproblem with uh, with uh
drinking on the job, even when Iwas socializing, you know, it

(25:21):
wasn't until I hired my buddy,cole.
He's, um, oh, cole's still atthe lodge.
He was my well, that was after.
It was my aunt, it was my greataunt and uncle come up and help
me, aunt Beth and Uncle Barry,and they're both well.
Aunt Beth passed God rest hersoul, but they were religious

(25:45):
and they were there on their owndime and helping me and
everything else, and she kept meon the straight and narrow.
Aunt Beth did so, yeah, yeah.
Well, like I mean, you have tobe sober, like you're
responsible for those people andyou don't realize it, like you
think running a fishing lodge isall fun and everything else and

(26:08):
and, um, you know, there's gotto be somebody there that's
sober, who can look after people.
Like I mean, I, I didn't thinkabout people getting hurt or
heart attacks or anything likethat until it happened.
You know, I was obviously soberand this was in about year five

(26:31):
or six for me, but a guy had aheart attack at one night and it
turned out not to be a heartattack, it was fluid around his
heart but I thought he was dead.
You know, and to not be soberdealing with that, you can get
yourself in a whole world ofhurt very, very quickly.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
No, you can't.
You got to be able to respondand and you're the lifeline
right.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So now your operation it'sfly-in camps.
Yes, how many fly-in camps doyou have?
Seven, seven.
Now I'm familiar with quantsand before I, before this
podcast, I got onto YouTube andI was looking at some of the

(27:17):
other lakes.
I see Colin McEwen was up andhe fished in the and I already
knew about the Sutton Riverbecause Pete and Ange, they it's
like, oh, it's legendary,that's like.
I mean anytime, anytime, yourname, her stare or that river
comes into any kind ofconversation, it's oh my God,

(27:40):
especially Peter, oh my God, you, you gotta go there, you know,
and so are you still servicing?
Yeah, wow, gonna have to, we'regoing to have to do that.
I'll give Carol a couple of bighugs and kisses.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
She's been trying and they've tried before.
It's the kind of place whereit's so easy to book Like I
typically will have waitinglists for the summer.
It takes a couple of years forpeople to get in because it's a
very short season.
So it just I mean it justdoesn't, doesn't need any, no,

(28:20):
and it's already like I'malready refusing.
So many people and some peopleget frustrated because I say,
well, you know, possibly nextyear, but probably in two years,
and by the time people canafford a trip like that, they
want to go now.
You know, some of them aregetting older and they're like,
oh geez, if I have to wait two,three years, I don't know if

(28:40):
I'll be able to do it, you know,yeah.
Yeah three years.
I don't know if I'll be able todo it.
You know, yeah, yeah, so.
So, no, I've, I've never wantedto, you know, spend the money
and and and have have morepublicity on something like that
.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Is there any way to um, to um, uh, increase the
volume that you can service outthere?
No, no way.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
It's a.
It's a trout fishery first ofall.
Yeah, it's extremely specialand it's a lot more fragile than
, you know, a pike and walleyelake or something like that.
You don't want to disturb thatecosystem.
Yeah, it's a partnership and arespect we have with the
Chuckamolan family as well thathave camps at Holly Lake and we

(29:28):
obviously don't want to disturbthat, yeah, that whole
relationship as well.
And that's their home, you know.
Yeah, so we're basically goingto their.
You know their background andtheir backyard, so you don't
want to overwhelm that part ofit as well.
Sure, the nice thing about theSutton is we we stagger all the
groups.

(29:48):
So you're going to a placethat's so far, and you really
are alone, cause if I have agroup of four go in, let's say,
a Tuesday, the next guys aren'tgoing in until Thursday or um.
So you're not paddling at thesame time as other people,
you're not fighting overcampgrounds, you're not worried
about, you know, getting to anarea of the river where the fish

(30:09):
are all spooked and it'sphenomenal.
So, no, it would be very, verywrong to try and put more people
in there.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
That's right, yeah, a good moneymaker, but wrong.
Yeah, yeah for sure.
But you've got some other well,Quance was phenomenal, Like, I
mean, walleye and northernscoming out the yin yang.
Let's talk about a couple ofthe other destinations that you
offer.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Okay, yeah, most of the all of them are pike and
walleye.
Sutton is the only trout tripwe do, yeah, so everything we do
is pike and walleye and perch.
The lakes that are closer wecall the local lakes they're
about 30 minutes out are reallygood for numbers of fish and
every once in a while I get abig pike, like we get pike 40

(30:59):
plus every week, but it's notyour average catch, wow every
week, but it's not your averagecatch, whereas, well, I've been
fishing with the Fish in Canadacrew for, oh, full, like full
time co-hosting since 2019.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
And there's only ever been one place that I
personally have been to wherethe Northern Pike, and it was
well, it wasn't just NorthernPike, it was a lot, but I'm
talking about the MackenzieRiver, excuse me which runs out
of Great Slave Lake in NorthwestTerritories.

(31:36):
Yeah, and there were massivepike there, but, like the Upper
French River and Lake Nipissing,it's the same deal.
Lots of you know 24 to 30 inchnortherns, and then you know we
get into the 36 class and then,and and here, um, we might break

(31:58):
40, uh, two, three times a yearlike a season.
So, those big pike you'retalking about getting those
bigger pike once, one or two aweek.
That's phenomenal fishing.
That's really good.
And then couple it with thenumbers and the walleye is
awesome.

(32:18):
It's really awesome.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
I think that's.
Yeah, I mean, I think it doesshow that we are a little
further.
But you know it does make adifference in the fisheries, um
again, the local lakes, like wecall them.
I, if someone says they'reparticular to trophy pike and
that's what they want to catch,then we kind of steer them
towards napkin and quants lake.

(32:43):
Quance, where you were.
It's about six miles long.
Another 50 miles up is NapkinLake and it's just above the
Albany River.
It's double the size of Quanceand it's a great fishery.
So Quance and Napkin are prettysimilar, but I would say Napkin
beats it.
Nice, it's a little better.

(33:03):
On that, yeah, um, but you know, fishing is fishing.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
As you know, when you guys went to quants it was, it
was a tough week um, wow, therewas so many factors in that week
, like, and it was still a greatweek, I'll tell you it was um,
I remember we fished one day andthen, um, I was in the camera
boat so I said, okay, boys, I'mgoing to go out and fish a

(33:29):
little bit before I come in.
And the fishing was great and Ihad my bug jacket on and I had
everything tucked in and Ithought, okay, I'm good.
And I went out and hammered thewalleye and caught a big
northern pike and I was messingaround with the live scope and
that was like I don't usuallyget to mess with the Garmin live

(33:52):
scope, which is the forwardfacing sonar, and you see fish
in real time.
And I was watching this bignorthern in this bay and it was
like five feet and I thought Ididn't even know what it was.
It was so big I didn't eventhink it was a fish.
And, um, sure enough, I got thaton and, uh, and I was watching

(34:17):
the screen as I was fightingthis fish and got it.
I got it to the side of theboat and I wasn't going to bring
it in, I just unhooked it atthe side of the boat and let it.
I got it to the side of theboat and I wasn't going to bring
it in, I just unhooked it atthe side of the boat and let it
go.
You know, when you don't havecameras right, you don't I don't
need to document it.
And I saw it and there wasnobody else in the boat for me
to show it off to, so I just letit go at the side of the boat.

(34:39):
But when I got back, the boyswere a little disappointed that
I hadn't had a cigar and a drinkwith them yet and told me that
you know, it's very respectfulto come in when we're coming in.
And I had felt around my beltline you know, it was a little

(35:03):
itchy, hot, you know and I tookthe bug jacket off and I reached
into scratch and it feltswollen.
I'm like, oh, wow, guys, Ithink fate has dealt me a card
that you guys are going to like.
And I dropped my pants and Ialready had my shirt off and I

(35:30):
had a red line right around mybelt, from where those black
flies.
They're like pigs.
They crawled right upunderneath my jacket and down
underneath my belt and ate mealive and but yeah, you know
what?
I don't imagine they're likethat at all in years.

(35:50):
I think we just hit a bad year.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, it's not the year, it's the week.
It's the week.
You guys were there in theworst possible time.
I felt so bad.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
And then there was the forest fire and there was
smoke the one or two days andactually we were a little
worried that the plane might notbe able to fly because it was
so smoky the day before you werecoming to pick us up.
But I loved it and it was hot.

(36:23):
It was hot too, yeah, but butyou know what?
that's part of the experience,that's uh, of course yep you
know, um, I thoroughly enjoyedit and I would go back in a
heartbeat.
Um, I'd love to try napkin.
It sounds very cool, very cool,yeah, napkins good, it's um,
Very cool, Very cool.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, Napkin's good it's um.
Well, we, we have guys thatcome July, August, they, they,
and that's the only time they'llever go.
But when I speak to big, bigpike guys, they want spring and
fall, and I don't know if thatcomes from bigger lakes that
they're used to or the SouthSouthern Ontario or warmer water

(37:02):
.
I don't know where that's from,but for us it honestly doesn't
really matter.
Yeah, what I see in the fishingand the numbers that people are
getting is, if it's reallyreally hot and having said that,
last week was horrible weatherbut the guys did great but
usually if it's really hot thewalleye will get sluggish, but
the pike don't stop.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
And what day is that going to be?
And what week of what month?
I don't know.
Weather is so unpredictable nowso it really doesn't matter.
May to September, EvenSeptember we have great fishing
in September.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Well, september for me, jerry used to close on Labor
Day and when I saw he wasclosing on Labor Day, which is
beginning of September, thefirst thing that I did was I
extended my season toThanksgiving and I had nobody
Like after that Labor Dayweekend when I took over, there

(37:58):
was zero bookings and by aboutmy fourth or fifth year,
september had turned into mybusiest month.
You know, but it's a little bit.
I think it's a little bitdifferent, this being closer to
the GTA and closer to the well,like, I mean, you guys are

(38:20):
probably closer to the UnitedStates than we are, but
September's when all the kids goback to school and couples
start to come, and older couplestoo that aren't really
interested in going to a place,when you know there's lots of
families, and yeah.
So September and October turnedinto really busy months and the

(38:44):
fishing in September here,although different than July and
August, was just as good.
And when you have good guides,I didn't have to worry about,
you know, finding fish, becausethey were all they just, you
know, follow fish, because theywere all they.
They just, you know, followthem.
You know what I mean Out everyday and uh, and, and it turned

(39:07):
into.
Well, it's where, it's where Imade my money.
I was paying for the lodge,paying for the overhead, paying
for everything until you knowSeptember, and then, by that
time, you know, I had bankedenough to to pay for the bills.
Now it was time to make sure Ihad enough to carry the place
for the winter, and if there wasanything left over, then, you

(39:30):
know, I made a little bit ofmoney.
But, um, and that didn't happenfor three, four or five years.
Um, living the oh yeah,absolutely it was, uh, it was
more like living a blur.
Now, thinking back about it,you know so much thinking about

(39:50):
that.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
That's just it.
This week I had to convincesomeone that offered me a lot of
cash for a moose hunt and he'slike are you sure that's a lot
of cash?
I'm like I can't put that in mypocket.
I got the planes to pay.
I got bills to pay.
Like yeah, you don't get it.
I don't own a, a machine in inthe woods to cut the logs.

(40:12):
Like yeah, these are airplanesand there's gas and there's
insurance and there's pilots andthere's a maintenance engineer
to pay.
I can't pay them in cash.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
No, I, yeah, I know, that was always a hard thing,
because people were used to like, I mean, the, the, a lot of the
, the lodges that are in afamily, that come along and and
you know, some people will takecash right and, but I couldn't,

(40:46):
I couldn't, and it's hard totell people because they're
wanting the, the 13% discount.
You know what I mean.
That's what they're looking forand that 13% discount although,
yes, I don't like paying thegovernment either, but I have to
show that I'm paying for thestuff that I have with real,

(41:11):
with, with, with good money,because if I don't, all of a
sudden people are going to startasking questions, yeah, and
then you're in a whole world ofhurt.
I mean, thank the good Lord Iwas never audited, because,
while Aunt Beth did a reallygood job with my books, I'm sure
, but fuck, I don't have a clue,I didn't have.

(41:37):
I played guitar, yeah, yeah, Iwas just trying to survive.
I don't know.
I played CR, yeah, yeah, I wasjust trying to survive.
I don't know, sorry, cra, yeahyeah, no, it's a good fun.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
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Speaker 3 (43:40):
So your business is a little bit different than mine
and I've always been intriguedwith the planes Because you know
, when you're a guest, part ofthat well, I would say a huge
part of the experience of whatyou do is the flight in and out.

(44:02):
I had never done I had been upin a float plane once or twice
before because I had guys thatwould fly into Chaudière and the
pilots would say, hey, you wantto go for a quick cruise?
And I'd say, yeah, I'll go fora cruise, but it was just a, you
know, a quick up and then down.

(44:23):
And it wasn't until I startedco-hosting with Ange and Pete
that I got to experience floatplanes and flights in and
flights out, and that experienceis second to none.
Like I mean going into Quance,the thing that I remember about

(44:45):
that trip the most was flyingover the forest fires and seeing
active forest fires burning inthose areas.
Right, but to get up in a planein Northern Ontario and for as
long as your eye can see, yousee trees, rocks and water.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Once you get going, it's ridiculous and you got to
see the tree line too.
You went above the tree line.
Yeah, that's a special thing tosee too, Just how all the you
know the swamp and the tundraformations and the only trees
are around those lakes andrivers.
So there's nothing and it's notlike we have mountains to look

(45:25):
at, but it is beautiful and it'son right.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
For sure it is.
Now, that's from theperspective of a guest.
My real interest is in theperspective of an owner and what
you have to deal with when itcomes to the planes themselves,
because I know what my biggestoverhead costs were in my

(45:52):
business, which were things likelabor, food gas, labor, food
gas.
But I'm pretty sure yourbiggest overhead is those
machines that carry peoplethrough the air to get to those
lakes.
What do you have to deal withwith those planes and pilots?
Really?

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yes, so my father and my brother are pilots, um, and
they are.
They are very, very, verypassionate about airplanes, so
they are very attached to them.
My brother doesn't fly with usanymore.

(46:33):
He flies in in Quebec now forAir Inuit, but he was here a
long time.
That becomes everything isthose airplanes.
You get really attached andthey work very, very hard.
But my father, if you'd ask himtoday, he'd say I never worked a
day in my life.
He loved every single day.

(46:55):
He loved coming in in themorning, the sun was rising,
he'd pump the floats and get theplanes ready and then at the
end of the day he'd tie theplane.
It's it's almost romantic tothink of that whole thing for
him.
He absolutely loved it, um, forfor others, they love, they
love the planes and theperformance of the planes and

(47:16):
everything.
But for the pilots, the hardwork like flying the plane is
difficult but it's loading andunloading and you, you know you
get to a river and there's nodock and you got to unload drums
of fuel or, um, you know, pickup some paddlers and and
negotiating the water and thewinds and that kind of thing.
It's not flying the plane.

(47:37):
That's difficult work.
It's the bush flying, so thatthat becomes, you know, the the
hardest part, uh, for them.
But as far as owning the planesand the business part of it,
it's just, it's the, the cost ofparts.
So we have the havelins, it's abeaver and a turbo beaver.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
And they stopped making them in the early
seventies.
So they don't make new partsand not there's not a lot of
these flying anymore, so theparts are extremely expensive,
extremely hard to find.
I don't know how to explain itwithout discouraging someone

(48:26):
that wants them.
Wow.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
You know, what?

Speaker 1 (48:31):
It's a lot yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Well, what's the regulations?
How have they changed over theyears?

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Transport Canada yes, a lot of changes.
So we're regulated throughTransport Canada through
operations, maintenance,dangerous goods.
So maintenance, like theairplanes, need to be maintained
with certain standards andrequirements.

(48:59):
So we have we're very spoiledto have a facility here.
We have an AMO here, like anaircraft maintenance
organization on site, which ispretty rare for an air service.
Typically they have to ferrythe flight to a shop and then
the plane gets worked on andthen it comes back.
So they do that every hundredhours.
But our planes get attentionimmediately, like if we land and

(49:21):
the pilot goes hey, you want tocheck this out or check that
out.
The planes are spoiled, whichis really really good because
they're they're safe and they'rewell maintained.
But that means we have afull-time engineer on site.
So you have to pay a full-timeengineer on site and you know
the shop.
We have a huge hangar and theadmin on that and it's quite an

(49:48):
expense.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
No doubt Is that engineer just look after your
planes or do you service otherplanes in the area?

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Or are there other planes?
Yeah, he does do other planes,mostly privates.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Cessnas.
Do you want to see my view?
Yeah, Audience is not going tosee it, but you're going to see.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
There.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Oh yeah.
Just like I remember it.
Yeah, so, folks, for all of youlistening out there, I am right
now looking at a beautiful lake.
There's three planes out on thedocks, um and uh.
It looks like there's lots ofpeople out in the lakes with
their trucks parked ready forready for their uh, their ride

(50:38):
home, and now you've got abeautiful house right there.
I see your guitars hanging onthe wall too, by the way, yeah,
yeah, that's what keeps me sane.
Nice, nice, at some point we'regoing to run into each other and
have a jam night.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, we should.
My son actually just did hisfirst concert in town for Canada
Day.
He's a drummer.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Oh, good for him.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Very proud mom.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Yeah, that's awesome, that's really cool.
Yeah, so I can't imagine thelogistics that you having to
deal with the logistics ofgetting all of my gas and food
and everything that I needacross the water in a boat.

(51:26):
You've got to do that to sevendifferent outpost camps by plane
and I'm assuming that thedangerous goods that's like
propane and gasoline Yep, that'sright that you're talking about
.
That's like propane andgasoline Yep, that's right
You've got to that you'redealing with.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, because we're we're limited access.
We're in an area that most ofthe places we go to have no
roads.
It does allow us to carrycertain things that you wouldn't
otherwise be able to put in anairplane.
Just because you don't have achoice, you have to bring, yeah,
so, um, that'll, you know,gives us some allocation on that

(52:02):
.
But but, yes, you have to bevery efficient in every flight.
Every pound the plane can take,you need to fill the airplane
to make sure that that thatflight, the cost of the flight,
is efficient, because if there'ssomething missing at the.

(52:25):
You know it can be as simple asa goddamn coffee pot.
Yeah, you know, if you gofishing and there's no coffee
pot there, and you called Meland Mel said, yeah, there's a
coffee pot and there is nonethere, you got to make sure it's
there.
So if it's missing, as soon asthat plane goes back it has to
be on the plane, because youjust spent money to fly in and
to service the camp.
You've got to make sureeverything is there.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
And that's typically the pilots that are dealing with
that right.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Well, yes and no, they're part of the team.
Obviously, we have an excellentteam and everybody has to be
very aware of that.
So the pilot definitely has tobe aware that he cannot leave
until he is checked.
Is there anything else that Ineed to bring?
So then we have a camp managerguy.

(53:13):
He does all the maintenance andthat kind of thing.
He also keeps an inventory ofthings that he's checking.
I, you know, I am asking theguests too.
So if I have a note in theoffice, okay, this is missing or
we need to fix that.
So we all have to be, you know,working together on that.
Yeah.

(53:33):
To make sure that when the planeleaves, there's nothing missing
.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
For sure.
Well, I just think I thinkabout you know, on the island
fixing things and and, uh, youknow I forget the, the wrenches
or a pipe wrench or something,and and all I got to do is walk
to my shop If it's not on theplane and it's not there.
That's a, that's an issue.
You know the, the logistics, to, to, to, to do that dance.

(54:04):
The way that you do is um is uhoutstanding and, like I say, uh
, when we were there, we had noissues uh at all, with, uh, with
um, um, all of everything beingthere and and you know.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
We even sent you extra beer.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Yes, you did, yes, you did, and we needed it.
It was hot.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
It was so hot.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
There was a.
There was a little um sandbar.
If you come out of the off thedock and you hang a left, there
was this beautiful sandbar thatcome out on the lake and Pete
and I would go there every dayand jump out, get on the sandbar
and wash up and swim and yeah,it was a lifesaver.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Oh, but the horseflies must have got you so
bad.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Well, the horsefly, but they're.
But you know what thehorseflies are, are one thing.
And, um, they're big andthey're if, if they get you,
they take a chunk out of you,but it's hard for them to land
on you and you not know.
And, um, as long as there's notlike 30 of them attacking you,

(55:18):
which there wasn't at any time,there wasn't.
There might've been like fiveor six or 10 or something like
that, but I've gotten good atfiguring out their habits.
And those horse flies for all ofyou out there listening in the
Diaries family, I'm talking notdeer flies like, I'm talking

(55:39):
those big and and here on theFrench this week, man, they are
bigger than I've ever seen themLike they're, they're like crows
, but a horse fly will land onyou.
And if you can, if you see itland on you, don't just swat at
it, watch it, let it walk aroundand it'll.
And it'll rub its stinger andrub its hands together, thinking

(56:03):
oh my God, I got a meal coming.
And you watch this little dancethat they're doing on your leg
or your arm or whatever.
And as soon as their ass startsto lift into the air, that's
when they're putting that mouth.
It's not a stinger, because youknow a stinger is something
they stick in to hurt you.

(56:24):
This is a bite right they'retaking.
They're sucking your blood andonce that ass comes up.
You spent way too much time.
Hey, I've had to deal with them,believe me, not just on quants
Like you, deal with themeverywhere, and once their ass
comes in the air just beforethey start to bite you, then you

(56:46):
swat them because they're notleaving.
You get them every time.
I got about six today down onthe dock.
Just let them land on you andthen watch, and watch, and watch
.
There goes the ass.
Wham, done, done.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Thanks for that very valuable information.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Oh, I'll tell you what it can be valuable, I'll
remember.
Oh yeah, the problem is whenyou get two or three on you and
you know you got two runningdiversion and the one on the
back of your leg that's gettingyou.
That's when the problem arises.
But yeah, so listen, this wasyour dad's dream and he loves

(57:29):
the planes and your brotherloves the planes.
Is this your dream?
What do you love about thisbusiness?

Speaker 1 (57:39):
For me it's well, it's all I've ever done.
So I'm very happy with what Ido.
I do love what I do.
I love where I am.
I mean, where else can I workand be in this environment,
right, and you work so hard?
But it's so gratifying, like myguests are amazing and I, I

(58:01):
really do love them and they'vebeen with me for so long, just
like you.
You, you get this, you get thisfollowing of people that are
just so happy and genuinely they, they're so happy to see you,
even if they see you only once ayear.
But you know, I have two andthree generations of people now

(58:22):
that are coming and now they'rehaving kids and like, don't
worry, mel, I'm bringing youknow, my kids just six months
old, but I'm going to bring themfishing as soon as I can and
and they, they really mean it.
So that's that's what I lovethe most is every day.
That's what I love the most isevery day.
I feel that what I do matters toa lot of people.

(58:47):
Having said that, it is a lot,it's a lot of work, and I'm
finding that I'm pretty oldschool in the way I'm doing
things and I'm not veryefficient.

(59:08):
I'm very hands-on and I speakand write personally to every
contact.
I don't have anything automated.
And in these days of internetand instant bookings and emails,
I can't work like that anymorebecause I can't keep up.
I can't keep up.
It's impossible, yeah, it is.

(59:29):
So I think that's where I'm atnow, thinking I just can't do
this anymore.
But really I I need to.
I need to be more efficient inthe way I'm doing things, but I
don't have a staff to set thesethings up for me.
It's me, yeah, you know, yeah,so that's a little overwhelming

(59:50):
and I don't know how to get awayfrom that personal touch.
I'm afraid of letting peoplebook online, because I feel like
I'm not going to get to speakto them and make sure that they
choose the exact right spot,that that I know that they're
going to have a great time at,and so I'm, I'm that's a battle
that I'm having right now and,um, I've never taken the time to

(01:00:13):
travel myself.
I'm finally doing that.
So I'm kind of seeing that, youknow, maybe it's my time to be
doing this kind of thing andtraveling and meeting people and
and not just being the host.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Wow From.
I had those feelings when I wasthinking about selling the
lodge and and it wasn't, um, Ididn't even think long.
Um, I, you know, I just gottired.
I got tired and I got burnt out.
Um and um, the decision to sellthe lodge was, was, uh, was, uh

(01:00:51):
.
I don't want to say quick and Idon't want to say the wrong
decision for me, because it wasthe right decision.
But it come with a lot of thosefeelings and worry about letting
all of those people that you'retalking about your guests, down
.
And since I've sold the lodge,now I'm a little bit different

(01:01:16):
because I have a place besidethe lodge in this island and all
of those guests that I reallyconnected with that still reach
out to me all the time like theycome and they'll drop in and
they'll see me and everythingelse.
But it's one of those thingswhere sometimes you've got to

(01:01:38):
make tough decisions and whenit's your time, it's your time
right Now.
There are ways that I found todo both Keep that personal
connection but yet automate somethings.
Like I used a software.
Well, I built one.
Actually, I had a guy do it forme.

(01:01:59):
Well, I built one.
Actually, I had a guy do it forme and that was very
time-consuming for him.
It was hard and expensive forme but it was definitely worth
it.
And since then, actually workingat Nordic with Will, I found

(01:02:25):
that there's a guy that has avery similar software where you
put in your phone number.
You can still talk to yourguests.
You don't have to allow them tobook online although you can
but it sends emails.
Once you book those people in,it'll send a welcome email.
It'll send your emails in thefall.
For you they're genericinformation emails but still,

(01:02:49):
you know people are gettingconditioned to getting that kind
of information and wanting itRight.
They want right Because mybiggest problem was I would be
phoning everybody but you knowpeople weren't getting a phone
call, sometimes until two weeksbefore they were coming.
Right, because I've been doingother things.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Well, yeah, you just can't keep up.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
I can't, no, no.
So if you can audit and and thename of the pro program is
called track it, I have, I have.
Oh, you got track it.
Yeah, yeah, have you, have you.
Are you using it for?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
sending your emails, and I'm just starting with the
automated templates and thatthat kind of thing.
Um, so yeah, cause I wasn'tonline with it.
I had it, um, as a desktop, sohe finally convinced me to go
online.
Noah, yes, and he's phenomenal.
I had him on as a guest, didyou?

(01:03:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Yeah, I worked with him for a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
He's great because if I do have an issue then I can
call him right away and he's onit.
He's really good.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
The other thing I found with him is it's his
program.
So if his program doesn't dosomething that you're doing, or
if you see something that youcould automate that's not
automated on there, he'll makethe changes for you, like he'll

(01:04:19):
improve the program right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Yeah, so, but yeah, it's, and just that is time
consuming, because so you know,I can sit there and go, oh, I'd
like to do this and this andthis, but now I have to.
It's still time to do thatwhile I'm running to the dock to
load the plane and then peoplecall and and you know what I
mean, that it's yeah, so it's,it's a lot.

(01:04:49):
So I, I'm, I'm at the point nowwhere we have been talking
about it for a few years.
You know we would be for salefor sure.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Well, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
We're not just an outfitter either.
We're an air service.
We have an aircraft charterservice year round.
These planes go on skis, um, noshit.
We work with MNR, we work withEnvironment Canada, we work a
lot with First Nations Um, a lotof research projects up north.
We bring people like this.

(01:05:18):
It's, it's constant.
The tourism is just part ofwhat we do.
So when you go, this is normalfor me, that's what we know.
But if someone wants to be justa tourist outfitter, that's a
lot.
And if someone wants to justthe airplanes, well, they maybe
don't want the fishing camps, sowe're used to it.

(01:05:38):
But really I have threebusinesses in one, like it's an
aircraft maintenance shop, it'san air service, it's an
outfitting business, which isnormal for us.
That's what I do, that's theway it's always been yes.
Yeah, but transitioning that tosomebody else.
You know, some people haveapproached us, but they don't

(01:06:00):
want me to leave for a few years.
I'm like I'm doing this for mebut I'm not going to do this for
someone else forever.
So so, yeah, that's a challengein itself and it's going to
kill me to, to, to make thechange, but I'm excited for it
because, you know, becausethere's a lot of living to do,

(01:06:22):
yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
What are your other interests?

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
I want to travel.
I would most like I'm alwaysgoing to work, but I'm probably
going to still work in the samekind of industry.
Yeah, I would love to go to theYukon and maybe do some work up
there in tourism.
I want to travel.
I don't want a permanentaddress for a long ass time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
That's good for you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Yeah, I just want to go everywhere.
I want to travel with my guitarand go fishing.
I don't even get to go fishing.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
That's the crazy thing, I don't fishing.
That's the that's the crazything, because I, uh, in the 10
years I owned Chaudière, theonly fishing that I did was
guiding, when my guides didn'tshow up or I overbooked, or you
know something happened.
And, um folks, guiding is notfishing, you know it is.
Guiding is not fishing, youknow it is.

(01:07:21):
You know you are fishing.
And I never really fished.
The goal is, if you're a goodguide, the goal is to teach
people how to catch fish.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
Yeah, you don't want to outfish them especially.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Wow for sure, right.
And like I say, the only time Ireally saw the water was and I
had these, these visions of ofgetting up in the morning this
is before I bought the lodgegetting up in the morning and
canoeing my cedar strip canoe onthe French river, with a, a

(01:07:54):
coffee and a and a hula popperout the back, going bloop, bloop
and just having these wonderfulmoments.
And in the whole time I wasthere.
That never happened once, notonce.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
You know, I worked for Eric Lund at Esnagami.
Oh yeah, when I was 19 yearsold, I met some of my best
friends there.
We're still friends to this day.
We see each other all the time.
But Eric was really good atthat.
With his family, he would gofishing.
There were one or two eveningsin like during the week that he

(01:08:35):
would take his family fishingbecause he loves to fish.
And I always thought, oh mygosh, that's so amazing because
it's so easy to say no, Ishouldn't, I'm gonna go work on
this, or no, I shouldn't do it.
You know, um, and I do the same.
I could easily just say to the,to a pilot, like, hey, let's go
fishing and you know, or comeback and get me in the morning,

(01:08:58):
but it's almost like it's tooaccessible or I feel guilty
about doing it, or yeah, I don'tknow.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
Guilt is a lot of it.
Guilt is a lot of it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Guilt is all of it, it's ridiculous.
I know I do have a partner incrime now that is flying the
planes.
So I've given him the you knowthe authority to say, okay, if
you see like we're looking atthe schedule and there's a

(01:09:30):
morning that it's not busy, likejust say, hey, let's go and and
we'll go like we've.
We've only done it twice, butit's gold when we do it feels
like a week, just one eveningout there.
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
And there's so much to be said tried and I didn't
get through them all, but Itried to sleep in every bed on
the island, in every cottage,right To see you know just the
ergonomics of the cottages,because I would always have
guests say, hey, steve, maybeyou should put a coat rack here

(01:10:18):
or something to hang somethinghere, or you know what I mean.
And for me to go and stay inthe cottage and sleep a couple
of nights there and try and moveall of my clothes in there and
you know it really helped me tryand see what people were saying

(01:10:39):
, and then I'm like, oh yeah,there's nowhere to put your
clothes.
I got to live out of mysuitcase here and when you're
there for a week it's nice tohave a place to move into.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
So what you're saying , steve, is I should for work
purposes, I should definitely go.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
Absolutely, with no guilt at all, and I, and, and
and I say that with, withauthority, you know it's, uh, it
is something that you should do, right, because it might um, it
might um, it might help you, uh, hold on a little longer.
You know what I mean.

(01:11:17):
It's important to enjoy whatyou do and it will make your
business better, inevitably,because when you're out there
and you're enjoying it and youhave experiences there, now you
can talk about those beautifulexperiences, right.
Yeah, not that you need to sellany more beautiful experiences,

(01:11:40):
because every lake you've gotis beautiful.
And and listen, folks, like Isay, I've only been to Quants
and it wasn't ideal conditionsby any means, but the experience
was outstanding.
Like I would go back in thosesame conditions to do what I did
10 times out of 10.
It was awesome, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Yeah, no, it's true, and the times I noticed that
when I'm doing the shows and ifI do take a moment and talk like
share when I go fishing, arethe times that I have, because I
used to go a lot more when Ididn't have kids.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
That my week off during the summer I would go
north and fish on theAttawapiskat with the Baxter
family.
That's trophy pike, trophywalleye fishing yeah, which we
didn't get into but yes, that'swhat I would do.
So I have been fishing.
It's just I haven't done it inthe last 10, 15 years.
But when you do start talkingabout that and how you felt when

(01:12:38):
you were there and you know howit was when you caught that
42-inch pike, then it's aneasier sell for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
For sure.
Yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%.
And listen that Attawapiskatlike I mean, it's busy folks,
it's outstanding and we'retalking big, big fish and get
your name on the list.
But don't not put your name onthe list for the other lakes

(01:13:09):
that Mel has access to withtheir camps on them, Because
they are outstanding as well.
Like, throw those into therotation, Because every one
offers a different and amazingexperience.
You know what's one of yourbest memories from either a

(01:13:29):
group coming back out of one ofthose lakes, and I know you've
got tons from from Attawapiskat,but go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Um, that's a.
That's a tough one for me.
I don't have a best of anything.
I couldn't even tell you whatmy favorite song is.
There's too many.
Um, so a favorite memory, Ithink.
I think my favorite time of ofthe day, of the week, of the
month, all all of that is when,when the plane lands from going

(01:14:05):
to pick someone up, and the guyscome off the plane and they're
dirty and they're tired andthey're exhausted and and
they're so happy, like there'sno stress in their shoulders,
they're just genuinely well andI feel I feel really proud in

(01:14:32):
that moment and they're just sohappy and they immediately will
say I can't wait to be here nextyear.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Like they're just they're not even in their trucks
yet.
That's, that's awesome, that isthe best, that's the best, that

(01:15:02):
is the best, that's the bestand that is what you do, that's
the service that you provide.
And that is the Sutton Riverand you know, being very careful
with that resource andprotecting the resource, because
to get into nature and to spenda week, number one, unplugged,

(01:15:27):
like no cell phone to worryabout, like I don't like when I
was a kid I used to go onfishing trips all the time and
there were no cell phones youknow it was folks.
It actually happened.
I, you know, I went away from mymom and from my girlfriend and
from all of these people forseven days and had no

(01:15:49):
communication and it wasbeautiful and there's so much to
be said about the therapeuticnature of nature.
It's a recharge that everybodyshould experience, and not only

(01:16:11):
the typical guys that we'reseeing and the typical people,
but all of the newcomers to thiscountry, like I mean, there's a
huge market there of peoplethat would love to see what this
country has to offer and Ialways kind of tried to figure

(01:16:32):
out how to get into that marketbut never really figured it out.
Do you have any thoughts onthat?

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
I think they just need it to be a one-stop shop.
They need to show up with justa backpack and you provide
everything.
So they need the fishingequipment to be there, the

(01:17:01):
sleeping bag to be there.
You know, for me I think itwould be kind of tough, unless
they have like one or twoorganizers with them.
And because they they do, theywant to, they call, they stop in
here and ask they're sofascinated.
But they've never done anythinglike that.
Some of them have never been ina 14-foot aluminum boat.
You know, they just yeah.
So it's intimidating, but Ithink if everything is provided

(01:17:26):
and they're well-guided, I thinkthat's what they would need.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
Well, there's a business model for somebody out
there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Somebody out there.
Yeah, somebody out there.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
Any last thoughts Mel .

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
Oh my gosh Any direction you want to go?
So many.
We were just talking aboutsomething and I wanted to say um
, I think that's pretty much it.
I mean it's just, we could talkfor another five hours about
this.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
That's one of the reasons I really love doing the
shows is I'm you know, we'restuck in our lodges and for you
it might've been different outthere because you had other
lodge owners near you, but I'malone here, like people in
Hearst.
I've been in Hearst all my lifeand they know what we do.
We have airplanes oh, you'rethe girl with the airplanes over

(01:18:21):
there.
No clue what I do for a living.
They don't know why I'm socrazy.
And when we are, we all have tobe a little eccentric and a
little wacky.
And when you get to the showsand you're like, oh my gosh, I'm
not alone.
And you can share theseexperiences and someone actually

(01:18:44):
understands, and you don't feelcrazy, and and and you also
find people who have the samepassion, because I mean, we
don't do this because we hate it, that's right.
We don't and we can, we cancomplain about stuff, and but we
really do and it is a passionand you know, for me it's.
I mean I, I was a year old,this has been all my life.

(01:19:08):
I'm 49.

Speaker 3 (01:19:11):
Me too.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
So that's almost 50 years of this shit.

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
Good for you.
It's crazy Good for you, soyeah, but no.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
I'm very grateful that I've been able to do this
and I'm looking forward to thenext chapter.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
Well, good for you.
Well, we're going to gettogether.
We'll do another one of thesebecause there's so much that we
didn't touch on.
That is awesome content storiesand things so we'll do that.
And then I want to hear thenext chapter.
I want to hear the next chapter.

(01:19:50):
That's an interesting thoughtall on its own.
Where does Hersteller Air Melgo, Like?
I mean, it's amazing, I onlyowned a lodge for a decade.
I was a fisherman most of mylife, but I only owned a lodge
for a decade.
You've been there for alifetime and I would love to do

(01:20:16):
a show with you on just thechange.
All we talk about are thechanges in the industry through
five decades.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
Yeah, we haven't talked about the change in the
guests too, and the guests yeahthat's a big one Well you know
what?

Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
Why don't we take a quick minute?
The one big change that I saw,even from like 2009 to when I
sold, was the fact that peoplehave become so much.
The fact that people havebecome so much their attitude

(01:20:56):
towards the resource or towardsthe fish has changed
dramatically, in a sense that inthe first two, three, four
years, our freezers were full ofwalleye for American guests who
wanted to take their limit home.
That was one of the key goalsthat they had and really one of

(01:21:19):
the things that scared the shitout of me, because down here on
Nipissing they were like I said.
There was some years where thewalleye population was crashing
due to invasive species like thespiny water flea and the whole
ecosystem was changing and theministry cut the limit.

(01:21:43):
From when I was here, it wasfour, Then they went to two,
Then they went to a slot size.
It was like 14 and threequarters to 17 or something.
It was all in centimeters.
Then they went to two fish over18 inches Then, and now you're

(01:22:07):
allowed to keep two fish on asport license that are between
40 and 45 centimeters, whichsounds like a lot, but 40, that
gap is like a two and fiveeighths gap or something stupid,
Although I will say there are alot of them out there.
I was out fishing twice thisweek and we caught our limit,

(01:22:32):
which was four, because therewas only two of us with licenses
, but we caught lots.
But you know, when you'retelling an American guest who
hasn't been to the lodge in 10years and the last time they
were there was like 1998 andthey're coming with six guys who

(01:22:53):
are used to taking you know, 36walleye home and then you know
slide a few under the, you knowthey're used to filling their
boots and filling coolers andthat has totally changed.
That's one thing that I've seenand that has totally changed.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
That's one thing that I've seen.
I have to say that on averageI'm generalizing, but the people
for us that wanted to overfishwere more Canadian than the
Americans.
I've always seen more of arespect from our American guests

(01:23:35):
for our fisheries than ourCanadians.

Speaker 3 (01:23:36):
Yeah, Um, so for that that's a great, that's a great
um, a great um, uh point because, thinking back, there were some
Americans, but you know what,you're right, it was the
Canadians that were overfishingas well, like or probably could

(01:23:58):
be.
You could be right, it may bemore, and I wonder if that was
just kind of a geographicalthing because it was hard to get
those fish back.
But you know what, theAmericans have been protecting
their resources a lot longerthan us.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Our guys were so grateful to come and be able to
fish like that.
Plus, I think well, I don'tknow, I'm assuming maybe if
you're only catching 30, youwant to keep the 30, but if
you're catching a thousand fishat a certain point you're like
what's the use?

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
Like they're just having a great time.
They're like we're going tocome back and do this again.
They don't have to stalk.
It's like this idea of oh mygosh, I've never experienced
this, so I have to stalk up, youknow.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
So no, I've always noticed our American guests were
always more respectful,especially the pike guys.
Like, pike guys are veryconservation aware and they
don't want to kill a pike elitewalleye.
But no, I mean when I wasselling licenses.
I don't sell the licensesanymore because it's all online,
but I would write all thelicenses on the little pieces of
paper.

Speaker 3 (01:25:12):
I know Well that saved a lot of labor.

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
Oh shit, yeah, I mean I'd say 80% of those licenses I
sold were conservation for theAmericans.
So for us I'd say it was theother way around the Canadians
were the ones that we'd have towatch for, and they're really
easy.
Because the first question isdoes the M&R ever fly in?

(01:25:36):
And I say yeah, at least once aweek, you know, and we really
have a good rapport.
So here's what they're going tocheck.
They don't fly in.
I mean, they don't have thebudget for it anymore.
They have been a few weeks ago.
They started, but it goes inspurts.
They can't fly in all the time.
But as soon as someone asks me,I tell them yes, they will be

(01:25:57):
there, because I know whythey're asking.
And it's not to our advantage tohave them overfishing.
I want to keep this going, youknow.
But my biggest change, I wantedto say, is not in the fishing,

(01:26:22):
it's in the hunting.
So the culture of hunting isreally in danger.
I find in Ontario it used to beso easy for the guys for a
group and all that.
I find that our biggest changesare in the moose hunts and I
find that pretty scary actually.
So two years ago, three yearsago, sorry they cut our tag

(01:26:45):
allocation over 50% in one yearand I don't let's not get into
that, but when I get myallocation in August for the
following season, so I only getone year to get ready for that
and I lost.
That's a huge loss, Um, oh,like all the outfitters above

(01:27:10):
highway 11.
So in Northern Ontario, sothat's areas 24, 25, 18 B, and
then if you go North of McKenna,North of Cochrane, they had
been cut quite a bit becausethere's a lot of road access and
they hadn't really touched usmuch Cause there's not many
roads up here North of you know,maybe 60, 70 miles, because

(01:27:32):
it's all.
There's no more trees, we're inthe tundra, so they hadn't
really cut us a lot.
But there was no, there was nowarning, there is no warning.
It could happen again In August.
I could get another 50% cut andif that would happen again, I
am sure to close down or try andfind some other way to reinvent

(01:27:53):
the business, Because if welose more of the moose hunt it's
devastating to a lot of thebusinesses, but it's very scary
for the future of hunting andthat's part of our culture.

Speaker 3 (01:28:05):
Our heritage.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
Our heritage?
Yes, and I see a big change inthe guests for that, because you
know the old guys.
First of all, they can'tnavigate the system anymore
because they're not online.
I do have some new hunters,which is nice.
I have probably five groupsthat are all under 30 years old,
which is phenomenal.

(01:28:28):
We hadn't seen that in a longtime.
Some fishermen, too, which wasnice because for a while they
were all 50 plus.
So we got some young guys infishing, which is nice, but I
think that's on us too to startchanging our marketing and what
they want.
Changing our marketing and whatthey want.

(01:28:48):
I do refuse though I'm notgoing to put internet anywhere
in the camps.
Yeah, I manage a lodge onBrunswick Lake and we put Wi-Fi
there, and I think it'sdevastating to see people on
their phones when they'reunaware of what an amazing place
they're in.

(01:29:08):
And that's the parents, that'sthe fathers, while the kids are
throwing a ball and their headsare on their phones looking at
the news.
Yeah, and I hate that becauseI'm not proud of giving them
Wi-Fi at all.
Yeah, because they're not goingto go home with their shoulders
down and stress-free.

Speaker 3 (01:29:28):
Yeah, no, I know, I know, I know it's funny.
At the lodge I had 20 acresroughly, with the 14 cottages
spread over the 20 acres, and Iput internet in the main lodge
only.
So if guests wanted to getonline they would have to come

(01:29:49):
down to the dining room and Ihad the dining room open all day
and then but it was a littledifferent, like phones weren't
what they are today back thenthey bring their computers down
and I found that at least theywere intermingling right, they
were meeting each other whilethey were down there, um.

(01:30:11):
But I refused.
There were people, there werepeople that would say you know,
it'd be really good if you hadum, if you had internet in the
cottages.
And I said no, that's not, it'snever going to happen.
Well, you know, even just towatch movies or something, and I
had bought it's worse.
Yes, I know I know Play cards orboard games or whatever.

(01:30:32):
But I broke down and I boughttwo TVs, two little 32-inch TVs,
and two DVD players and I had aDVD library and if somebody
wanted to watch a movie that bad, they could take a TV and pick
a movie, a DVD and take it totheir cottage but again, I
always had the lodge open forpoker or euchre and pick a movie

(01:30:52):
, a DVD and take it to theircottage.
But again, I always had thelodge open for poker or euchre,
or we'd organize a progressiveeuchre tournament on Thursday
night when we had enough peoplethat were interested, or stuff
like that.
But things have changed so much.
But anyway, that's a greattopic for another show.

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
Yep Sounds good.

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much, mel.
It has been a pleasure.
I've thoroughly enjoyed theconversation with you and I
remember when I first met you Ithought, wow, that girl's got it
going Like.
I mean you, you, you knew thebusiness.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
I was just some little little punk right and
just starting Cause that wasprobably 10 years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah I've .
I've been out of the businessnow for six.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:31:44):
It's crazy, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
Well, thanks again Um no problem this is great and of
course I'll do this anytimewith you guys well, thank you
very much.

Speaker 3 (01:31:54):
I'm looking forward to that day hey and yeah, and
folks listen head on over tofishincanadacom.
Uh, I think the countess mayhave opened up the uh, the um,
uh, free giveaways again.
I'm not sure I'll confirm that,but go on over there and check
it out.
And if there's giveaways again,I'm not sure I'll confirm that,
but go on over there and checkit out and if there's giveaways
there, get your name in thebucket and give the Outdoor

(01:32:16):
Journal Radio podcast a listen.
Those boys are fantastic andthank you to all of the folks
that are supporting us here onthe podcast.
And hopefully we'll pull Willieout of the Great White North
here sometime, but that's okay,we'll carry it along with
wonderful guests like Mel atHearst Air and listen.

(01:32:39):
If you need any information atall for absolutely outstanding
fishing experiences, you can geta hold of Mel at
melatherstaircom.
Am I correct?

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 3 (01:32:56):
Nice, and thus brings us to the conclusion of another
episode of Diaries of a LodgeOwner.
Stories of the North.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
I'm a good old boy, never meaning no harm.
I'll be all you ever saw beenrailing in the hog since the day
I was born, bending my rock,stretching my line.
Someday I might own a lodge andthat'd be fine.

(01:33:32):
I'll be making my way the onlyway I know how, working hard and
sharing the north with all ofmy pals.
Well, I'm a good old boy.
I bought a lodge and live mydream, and now I'm here talking

(01:33:55):
about how life can be as good asit seems.
Yeah, hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
Every Thursday, ang and I will be right here in your
ears, bringing you a brand newepisode of Outdoor Journal.

Speaker 2 (01:34:20):
Radio.
Hmm, now, what are we going totalk about for two hours every
week?

Speaker 6 (01:34:24):
Well, you know there's going to be a lot of
fishing.

Speaker 5 (01:34:26):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors, from athletes Toscientists.

Speaker 5 (01:34:47):
To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, it's the
perfect transmission environmentfor life.

Speaker 6 (01:34:51):
To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
, you will taste it, and whoeverelse will pick up the phone.
Wherever you are, outdoorJournal, radio seeks to answer
the questions and tell thestories of all those who enjoy
being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.

Speaker 4 (01:35:10):
Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you
get your podcasts.
As the world gets louder andlouder, the lessons of our
natural world become harder andharder to hear, but they are
still available to those whoknow where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's

(01:35:31):
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal use by

(01:35:52):
Indigenous peoples all over theglobe.
After nearly a decade of harvestuse, testimonials and research,
my skepticism has faded toobsession and I now spend my
life dedicated to improving thelives of others through natural
means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the

(01:36:13):
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people that will help you findyour outdoor passion and help
you live a life close to natureand under the canopy.

(01:36:33):
Find Under the Canopy now onSpotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.