Episode 105: The Buck Lake Lodge Story

Nestled in the heart of Northern Ontario's wilderness, Buck Lake Lodge stands as a testament to authentic backcountry experiences. Owner John Moffatt welcomes us with stories that span generations, having been born into a trapping family and nearly delivered in a remote cabin. His journey from childhood in the bush to engineering school and ultimately back to lodge ownership reveals a deep connection to these waters that transcends mere business.

What makes Buck Lake truly special is its location near the geographical center of Ontario – a convergence of watersheds where seemingly insignificant ponds reveal themselves as walleye hotspots once explored. "You can go to a place you think would be a minnow pond," John explains, "put a boat in there, go fishing and it'd be like walleye, walleye, walleye." This abundance exists because of John's unwavering commitment to conservation, implementing catch-and-release practices for trophy fish since the 1980s, when such approaches were still controversial.

Unlike many lodge owners who struggle with isolation, John has created a family legacy at Buck Lake. His wife Shannon and their children are fully integrated into operations, allowing him to expand services while maintaining the personal touch guests cherish. His extensive knowledge of the land – from ancient moose trails to hidden rock formations – adds dimensions to the experience that few lodges can match. As John explores the bush surrounding Buck Lake, he discovers natural wonders that have remained untouched for centuries, sharing these treasures with guests who seek more than just trophy fish.

For those seeking an authentic Northern Ontario adventure where hospitality matches the quality of fishing, Buck Lake Lodge offers a rare combination of family warmth, conservation ethics, and access to waters that continue to surprise even the most veteran anglers. Come discover why John believes this remote corner "is one of the most important places in Ontario."

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
We have a gem of a place here in Hornpain.
There's so many little ponds,so many little lakes.
You can go to a place you thinkwould be a minnow pond and you
go in there, put a boat in there, go fishing and it'd be like
walleye, walleye, walleye.
Are you kidding me?
Seriously?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's like the hub.
It's the, in my mind, is one ofthe most important places of

(00:29):
Ontario.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome folks to another episode of Diaries of a
Lodge Owner Stories of the North, and this is a very special
episode.
I always say that, but I reallymean it this time.
They're all special, but thisis On the Road Again and I have
a couple of.
Actually, I have four wonderfulpeople, including myself,

(00:54):
involved in this podcast.
Number one we've got Dino onthe board.
Come on now.
There you go.
Thank you, dino.
Thanks for having me.
Rick Delishny, our new cameraoperator and really the stud of
the crew now, oh, go on.
Yes, and most importantly, Ihave met another person that I

(01:21):
saw, the man, I shook his handand that's all I needed to do to
know.
This guy is awesome.
He is the owner of Buck LakeLodge.
We are on location and I'msitting here with John Moffitt
and John.
Thank you, first of all, forhaving the Fish and Canada crew

(01:43):
up here because we're on a shootand giving me the opportunity
to have you on the show becauseyou're awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Well, first of all, thanks for coming out, guys.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.
And met a whole pile of newguys, new connections.
This guy right here, well,thank you, yeah, man.
So here we are, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, just grab that mic and set it right in front of
you.
All right, like.
I'm a rock star.
That's right.
Nobody can see us here, so wecan do whatever we want with the
gear All right, All right.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Well, we got gear we don't need to share.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Wellsure.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Now, John, tell us about your past, Like I mean.
You're not just a lodge owner,you were born at a lodge, with a
lodge Lodge in the family,different lodges, trapper Like.
When it comes to the north,you're the man.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, man, I mean I won't self-proclaim but I'm
going to say my experiences.
Yeah for sure.
I grew up in a family trappingfamily up in Capscasing.
My dad was a millwright but hedid real good at trapping at the
time.
This is back in the 80s, butwhen I was first born, my folks

(03:07):
owned a camp on the neighboringlake here, which is the only two
lakes we can connect.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
That's right.
Like you saw this week rightGranite Lake right.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, granite Lake.
So they owned that.
And then I was born, just aboutborn, there and they had to fly
me out, my mom out, to have me,because they were there, cut
nice, in the winter.
I was born in January.
Oh yeah, me too.
That's why the 27th I'm second.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Oh, right on, You're ready.
Almost a New Year's baby.
Almost almost.
Yeah, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
But I still rock the New Year's pretty good Like I
own it.
I started there trapping family.
My folks own a camp on theneighboring lake and I was
basically born there.
My older brother, my oldersister were little toddlers
there.
I was a baby and then.

(04:05):
So they sold and then there'sfamily that took it over and
then probably like 18 yearslater, I went and got a job
there, summer job A little.
Put me through school, man, I'man engineer.
No Nice, I hate that stuff.
Well, that's why you own alodge now.
Yeah right, that's why you own alodge.
Never said I was smart.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
I know People always think, wow, you own a right,
that's why you own a lodge.
Never said I was smart.
I know People always think, wow, you own a lodge.
That's amazing, Like when Ifirst and this was when I first
got the idea in my mind, andbefore I owned a lodge I had
this vision in my head and Ididn't have the pleasure of
working at a lodge when I was akid, like I mean, I worked on a
farm, yeah, but I always lovedfishing and this idea of owning

(04:49):
a lodge.
I had this vision in my head ofthe French River because I was
looking at Chaudiere and acouple of other lodges in the
area and this vision was gettingup early in the morning, before
all of the guests were up, andmaking a coffee and paddling my
cedar strip canoe with a hulapopper, bloop, bloop, splash,

(05:13):
and catching big bass and, youknow, going back in and
breakfast is all ready, and youknow.
And Then you woke up.
I'm still dreaming.
I never did wake up, you know.
And Then you woke up.
I'm still dreaming.
I never did wake up, you knowwhat?
And in a decade that neverhappened once.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
No, not once, never.
No, I've been approached byguys right that were like oh, I
would love to do this, you wanta partner and all that stuff.
And I'm like, no, you know what, if you really like to hunt and
fish, don't buy a hunting andfishing line.
It's over, it's over, yeah,yeah, it's over.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
You're setting guys up instead, I've said it if not
once, a hundred times on thisshow and the Diaries family they
know the only time I got to gofishing was one of two
situations.
Number one one of my guidesdidn't show up.
Or number two, I overbookedthem.

(06:14):
It was probably 50 50.
You know by me I go for aminnow run Nice.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Well, you need to go get some minnows.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
You need that time.
Yeah, you know, like there weretimes when I remember I, I just
, I just, you know, zone out andGame of Thrones was, was on, it
was, it wasn't going live andit already kind of finished.
So I, I would just binge Gameof Thrones in my room, just

(06:47):
hiding from everything,everybody, everything, because
it can be such a mental drainingjob, you know.
And then Lifestyle, and thenyou hear you know that sound, I
know that sound.
It always happened.
I had a staircase at the bottomof my.
I lived in the upstairscorridor with, well, my aunt and

(07:10):
uncle great aunt and uncle wereup there for a little while
Aunt Beth and Uncle Barry, andthen Cole, my office manager,
and we really didn't.
We had doors on our rooms butthere wasn't a door on the
office room, but nobody wouldever come upstairs.
They'd knock on the paneling onthe side of the stairwell Right

(07:31):
.
You hear donk, donk, donk, donk,Steve that would be the first
set of gates.
Yeah, yeah.
It didn't matter how many gateswere set up, they always found
me, but you got to understand.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Gotta understand, though, is that you have, I know
, to cut yourself away from yoursurroundings and what's going
on over here.
You have to take that time, andthat's what makes you last.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
yeah, well, I made it 10 years and you know, that
comment is uh is something thatI kind of take to heart, because
at the end of that 10 years Ireally didn't well, I didn't
know that I was going to sell, Ididn't even have an exit plan,
I just it.
Just, I was talking to BrianDykstra.

(08:13):
I'm not sure if you've heard ofBrian Dykstra.
He's a real estate agent and hesells lodges all over the
province.
He sells the most lodges.
He sold the most lodges inOntario history, brian.
He's sold Chaudière three times.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
That's Brian.
He's done good off you guys.
Oh, how's he ever Really?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
good, really good, but he's great, like he would
anything you need.
After you sell, he becomes yourfriend.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
When they know what they're doing, it's a big thing,
and they're there to help youout and all that.
Oh for sure, me selling is noteven an option.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
No, Not even an option.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I got kids, man, my kids are in on this.
My kids were here as babies,yes, and they're starting to
love this gig and they're lovingthe lifestyle, the whole nine
yards, right.
So they're starting totransform into this, which is
cool for me, which just gave methe space to be able to go next
level.

(09:18):
Yeah, and that's where we're atright now.
We're at like okay, man, thebasics are handled, the boys
have got it, the crew's got it.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
It must be such a great feeling.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Wow, you seen it already with the new air service
.
You know, we did our ownairbase over there, and then I
go there for the weekend and domy thing over on that side.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, you, fly right out of Hornpain, like three
minutes out of Hornpain, andit's a beautiful airbase.
Lots of parking.
You know what it's got,everything you need, and it's
got to be a great feeling andsomething that I've missed out
on.
And the difference was my wife,melissa, was a teacher, so I

(10:02):
was the lodge.
They didn't live with me, theydidn't.
You know, she had summers offwith the kids and actually the
kids probably saved our marriagebecause, like I mean, in the
first couple of years when Ibought the lodge, we had three
kids under the age of six orunder the age of six.

(10:24):
Yeah, we had three kids underthe age of six or under the age
of six.
Yeah, and I wasn't home for muchof six months for those two
years, like from May untilreally sometimes close to

(10:45):
November, because we stayed openright through until October.
And you know this as a lodgeowner, the only time that you
really have to do any kind ofinfrastructure improvement or
and I was on an island, muchlike you're only accessible by
air, you're flying, and the onlytime you don't have guests is
before, right after the ice goesout and before guests show up,
and for me that was was two,three weeks if I was lucky, and

(11:09):
I still and and in that periodyou're not only looking at maybe
infrastructure improvement.
You're also looking at getting14 cottages up and running and
and staff in and trained and youknow, and then and then after
the season's over, before youget iced out, that's when you've
got an opportunity to doinfrastructure improvement.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
So I was burnt out by then.
Oh, you're wore out by then I'mtelling you I built.
I built this lodge between thehours of 7 and 10 pm because
that's when the bite was on.
That's when I had nobody incamp it's 7 in the morning I was
able to bang nails.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, without anybody coming to ask me why I'm
banging nails, I was like, well,I know yeah man, you know.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
After dark is always a good time.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Once it gets dark and the sun hits the trees and the
shadow gets long and everybody'son the bite.
It's a good time for me, yeah,as a lodge owner?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah for sure.
But for me, having my wifehaving a wonderful job, benefits
and everything that we needed,because when I bought the lodge
I mortgaged everything.
I'm very open with what I didand how I did it.
And I'm very open with what Idid and how I did it, and
everybody knows that I not onlymortgaged everything that I had

(12:30):
and owned, I had a $100,000 loanon my mom and dad's farm.
I had a vendor take back of$140,000 and a mortgage from a
mortgage broker we'll call themand I borrowed 450,000 at 10%
and they charged me 32 grand togive me the opportunity to

(12:56):
borrow that money.
So when I borrowed $450,000, Igot $450,000 minus 32,000 in the
bank, right off the top, youknow.
And then I've got Melissa athome and and thankfully she
didn't, she, she didn't care,she never really asked about the

(13:19):
money, she didn't see the bankaccounts in the business because
mentally I couldn't handle herlooking at it myself, you know
so.
But then, once, once I gotthings going and and I I can
honestly say I would still ownthat lodge, and probably more

(13:43):
than that, if I had that familyinvolved.
And my kids, to this day, theirfondest memories were those 10
years of being at the lodge andI wouldn't have sold the lodge.
I bought an island right acrossfrom the place.
I've got an island with acottage.

(14:03):
You're up north, you call themcamps.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
So you're there, you're breathing the place.
I've got an island with a, witha cottage.
You're up north.
You call them camps.
So you're there, I'm on therigor.
You're breathing the air.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
I've got 18 acres and I've got a lot for each one of
the kids and that really was the, and the guy that bought the
lodge wanted that bad.
He wanted that included.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
You just got rid of all your headaches.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
That's what you did you still got an island.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
That's what you did.
Still got an island.
That's what I did.
Got a place for your familywhere you got rid of all the
hardships.
Yes, yeah, that decade, thedecade was good to me and it was
the right decision.
But still, the lodge life andbeing able to bring your kids
into it and see how they enjoyit and set them up for a

(14:43):
lifestyle and a life that Ibelieve.
When you have a facility likethe facility that you've got
here or like Chaudière, it'shard for me to say that they're
recession proof, but you knowyou're handing a business over
to your kids that's going tosustain them for the rest of

(15:05):
their life.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Oh for sure.
So you said another word, too,was recession proof, which was
kind of cool, because I boughtthis place during the recession
and I always knew from my pastexperiences working into lodges
and stuff right.
So I always knew that duringthose recessions we always did
well.
I always tell by my tip moneywhen I was like a dockhand.

(15:27):
I always knew, because I'vebeen grown into this right, yeah
, and I've always known thatthis is because when recession
hits people have a hard time andyou know what They'll keep
every last bit.
So the golfers still golf, thefishermen still fish.
Recession is on but they'restill doing that stuff.
Guy hunters are going outhunting, yeah.

(15:48):
So we always do good onrecession, in my mind, yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Wow, it's a great point.
It's a great point.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, but for us, you know.
Then mentioning the familystuff too, which is cool because
, like my oldest boy, alex, wastwo months old when we first
brought him to the bush and he'sstill.
He's 25 now and he's like indeep.
Yeah, yeah, he's in deep.
He doesn't understand adifferent life, he just wants to
keep going with what we gotgoing on.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
And you know when you're born into it.
Shannon, bullshit.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, so Shannon's, like she's been by my side and
just full on full in.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
See, that's a thing that I'm, you know, having met
my wife and I wasn't born intoit I just got so, so sick of
working the job that I had.
I was a sheet metal mechanic,uh, I was, uh, I worked for two
different companies greatcompanies, uh, non-union and

(16:49):
then I started my own business.
I was in that business for fiveyears and you know, when I left
the last business that, um, Iwas working at, uh, decoursey
Steel down in Brampton um, Ithought Pete, who was the owner,
was an asshole.
I thought Pete, who was theowner, was an asshole.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, it's not this Pete right here.
No, not that Pete.
I still think he's an asshole.
Yeah, yeah, we know he's anasshole.
Sorry, peter, I'm just joking,but we love you.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
He's smiling and waving, so we're good.
Yeah, we love you over there.
But so I went off on my own andstarted a sheet metal shop.

Speaker 6 (17:25):
I also hated the drive from Shelburne to Brampton
.
Oh my goodness Like.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I mean when I first started back in the mid 90s,
late 90s, my commute was about45 minutes.
But then they developed.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
You'll never get those minutes back.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
No.
And by the time, I left, it wasif I didn't leave my house to
get to, to, to brampton forseven, if I didn't leave by
quarter hour, you know by by 645, which was an hour and 15
minutes from 45 minutes.
And I had to leave by thatbecause the traffic windows were

(18:05):
stupid.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Oh boy, one minute makes a big difference.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh my God, I would be 35 minutes late.
It was just the drive waskilling me and, like I say, I
thought Pete was an asshole andI got into my own business and I
started to realize howdifficult running a business is.
And that was my first toesdipped in the water for running

(18:29):
a business and I quicklyrealized that, well you know,
pete wasn't such an asshole youknow, there was a method.
Well, you wonder you begin untilyou have your own business and
you, you do it.
You don't understand the shitthat goes on behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
So I had the opportunity and I was blessed
that I was able to manage aplace which is our neighbor.
So I did all the managing,shannon did all the cooking.
We were a team and we rockedthat.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
All the hiring, all the firing.
So you met Shannon at thatplace?
No, I met her.
She's a farm girl.
Yeah, you're going to All thehiring, all the firing.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
So you met Shannon at that place?
No, I met her.
She's a farm girl.
Oh, yeah, yeah, good for her,you're going to like this.
So an old friend of mine toldme a long time ago when I was
young and I'm like, you know,I'm looking to just move on in
life, and he was like go findyourself a farm girl.
So I did.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh, you are the smartest man on earth.
I took his advice.
Hey, listen, folks out there.
For all you young guys outthere, I think that's one of
those diamonds that you can'toverlook.
Okay, I grew up on a farm.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Go find yourself a farm, bro, I know what that's
all about right.
They know hard work, they knowresilience.
They know a lot of things thatmost don't.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Been through it all.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
So we got together, so we seeked her out.
Then I brought her up north,told her she was going to have a
cooking job at Granite Hillthere and I went there and then
we had a semi-management job,but she wound up with a
dishwashing job and she stillhung out man, I'm like I should
keep her then.
Yeah, she's a keeper man.
Yeah, and ever since then it'sbeen great.

(20:11):
We're a great team.
She handles things that I don'thave to.
I handle things she don't haveto, and we handle things
together.
Yeah, that's which is cool, andit's just what we have tuned
ourselves to.
Be together is what we do today.
Wow, family, kids, everything.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
I can see how you've done it and you've been there
through the product that you'reproviding here, because the
hospitality is very good, and Isaid it on the other.

Speaker 6 (20:46):
Well, you can't beat that.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
No, you can never beat that.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Well, it's the key.
Yeah, First of all, man that'sthe most important thing, that's
what brings people back.
Yeah, it's not the fishingAlthough sometimes if you're on
one in a million fisheries,people will put up with bullshit
to be on a fishery that is sounbelievable.

(21:10):
But even those fisheries, youhave bad fishing days and bad
fishing weeks.
But if the hospitality is notthere, you're done, you're
cooked.
You're done, you're cooked.
And I was saying on the OutdoorJournal we just recorded an

(21:31):
episode of On the Road againwith Pete and Rick and Dean and
I did that and I said you know,because now I've been a lodge
owner for a decade, I know whenI come into these places I have
the perspective from anownership side and now I have

(21:51):
the perspective of a guest andnot only a guest as a co-host of
a national fishing televisionshow and I usually will look
around at how things are beingoperated and I'll make notes.
And at the end of the trip Ialways will approach the lodge

(22:13):
owner and I'll say, hey, listen,you know I really appreciate
what you've done for us thisweek and I've been there and I
managed to be successful doingit.
And would you mind if I gaveyou a few ideas that might help
you improve?

(22:33):
And typically all of them say,oh, yeah, yeah, no problem, and
listen, I've been doing that thewhole time I've been here and
there really isn't a lot.
I usually have a list because Ireally want to help people.
I really want, and it's hardwhen you're a lodge owner,

(22:55):
especially when you're one likemyself who didn't or actually
you know what it's hard whenyou're a lodge owner, whether
you worked at them as a kid orwhether you're new to the
business.
It's hard to put yourself inthe perspective of a guest, and
whether that be sleeping inevery bed in your, in your lodge
which, which I tried to do, andand and I didn't get there.

(23:18):
I slept in every cottage justto see, because I was getting
people saying hey, you know, canyou put a hook here or this,
there or this?
Right, did you try Pete'spillow this week?
You should have tried thatmaybe.
I think Odette might have it.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
She's going to auction it off.
She must have kept Pete'spillow, hey.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Pete.
Maybe we can stop and sign thatpillow for Odette, for the
fundraiser that's going to comeup.
Pete wants his pillow back.
They're cheap.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
They're cheap.
Peter leaders and Peter pillows, yeah, yeah absolutely
Absolutely.
Sorry, we have to take a chanceto banter with Pete when he's
sitting across the room overhere, but really there's not a
whole lot here at all that I cansuggest Other than like normal

(24:08):
wear and tear, that you would beaware of that happens year and
year and stuff like that.
The key is Try to keep it upwith our equipment when you're
on the lake.
It's good stuff.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
You're fishing in nice boats, good motors yes,
that boat, that we're fishingout of that Alumacraft and, with
that Merc on it, that boat, andthis is one of the things on my
list.
The one thing that would makethat boat perfect and I know
it's a pain in the ass because Idealt with them a lot is a

(24:42):
trolling motor, a Baumanntrolling motor.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Well, I had one.
You can see the indent in thecarpet.

Speaker 6 (24:48):
Yeah well, I was looking for it.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
That was my boat for a long time and I was having a
hard time because I always pullin the shore somewhere and I go
cruise the bush.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, jumping over it.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
I find so much stuff in the bush here that's like
really become one of my biggestpassions around here is
understanding the land works andwhat's going on here.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
And I find so many cool things in the bush and it's
just things that somebody maynot have ever set eyes on.
So that trolling motor was inthe way to pulling in the shore
and the brush.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
And that's beside the point.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Except in the rafters of the shop.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Maybe we'll set you up for tomorrow, oh you know
what I should buy you forChristmas?
A quick connect.
Hey, right, that would help.
Yeah, that'd be all right.
But listen, this littletrolling motor avenue here has
it is cool on that boat, manthat's a nice setup.
Oh, buddy, Like I mean, it'd beperfect.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Today.
Oh, buddy, like I mean it'd beperfect Today.
The best option was the BibbityTop.
Oh, we talked about it in themorning, I yeah.
And then I saw you show up backat camp.
It was full on and everything.
You were dry.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, I'll tell you what it bought us an extra.
How long, fellas Dino?
How long did it buy us inshooting time?

Speaker 7 (26:05):
Oh, probably four hours.
I mean it rained the majorityof the day.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, when Rick would have been um having to cover
the camera up and we would havebeen sitting in the rain like
Peter.
Unfortunately, I didn't evenbring my rain pants, I know, but
you didn't need them.
No, I didn't need them andthat's the best part.
But anyway, this whole trollingmotor thing, I don't even want

(26:30):
to talk about the trolling motoranymore.
I want to talk about what yousaid about your favorite thing
to do now and find theseinteresting things in the bush.
So we're just outside ofHornpain and, to give people an
idea, to drive from Oshawa boys,how long was your drive?

Speaker 7 (26:49):
I think we were 11 hours something by the map, so
maybe 13-hour day, 13-hour drivenorth.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Depending how quick the Mary Browns was.

Speaker 7 (26:59):
Yeah, probably 12 or 14.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
But we're up north 14 hours and we're close to the
middle of Ontario.
Ontario is such a massiveprovince.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
It is the center of.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Ontario here, and that's another interesting point
.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
So 10-minute drive out of town takes you to a place
where you can go and walkaround the centre of Ontario.
It's pretty cool and it's justgetting developed now, but it's
the geographical GPS point ofthe centre of Ontario and it's
kind of cool because the wholeentire place is like the height
of land, it's the watershed, allthat stuff, and it happens to

(27:44):
be right here in the centre ofOntario.
We have a gem of a place herein Hornpain so many little ponds
, so many little lakes.
You can go to a place you thinkwould be a minnow pond and you
go in there, put a boat in there, go fishing and it'd be like
walleye, walleye, walleye.
Are you kidding me?
Seriously, yeah, are youkidding me.
Seriously, it's like the hub.

(28:04):
In my mind, it's one of themost important places in.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Ontario.
When you're in the wilds ofnorthwestern Ontario, you need
gear you can trust and a teamthat's got your back.
That's Lakeside Marine in RedLake, ontario Family owned since

(28:36):
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They're your go-to pro campdealer, built for the north From
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We don't just sell you gear, westand behind it.
Lakeside Marine.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Rugged Reliable Ready .

Speaker 6 (28:58):
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right.
Every Thursday, ange and I willbe right here in your ears
bringing you a brand new episodeof Outdoor Journal Radio.
Now, what are we going to talkabout for two hours every week?
Well, you know there's going tobe a lot of fishing.

Speaker 4 (29:19):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
Yeah, knew exactly where thosefish were going to be and how to
catch them, and they were easyto catch, yeah, but it's not
just a fishing show.

Speaker 6 (29:26):
We're going to be talking to people from all
facets of the outdoors fromathletes.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
All the other guys would go golfing Me and Garth
and Turk and all the Russianswould go fishing.

Speaker 7 (29:37):
To scientists.
But now that we're reforesting-and laying things free.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
it's the perfect transmission environment for
life To chefs.
If any game, it's the perfecttransmission environment for
line to chefs.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you
will taste it.

Speaker 6 (29:50):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you
get your podcasts.
So what are some of the coolgeological structures or things
that you've found on youradventures out into the bush?
And you're a trapper too, soyou spend a lot of time in the
bush.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, so trapping is what helped me see things.
So I'd get on a beaver hut andI'd be like, oh, you know what,
I'm going to take a walk outinto the bush from here because
I'm trapping the hut right.
So I go have a look and there'slike a formation and it would
be like if you took a little,not an oak but like a poplar
leaf or birch leaf, just a fullon leaf, and then you see how
you got that line that goes upand it kind of branches out like

(30:42):
veins and goes out.
See, this whole entire rockformation.
It's just like this beautifulthing and it's split like a leaf
, like that, and you can walkthrough these crevices of the
rock, all these veins, you canwalk through it and it's like a
cave almost and all these things.
It's just like.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Just there.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Right there, just there, but it was like 10 feet
in the bush.
No way you would have never seenit, you would have never seen
it unless you walked 10 feet inthe bush.
Yeah, yeah, we see things.
I see things like with the evenlike the moose traffic here.
These trails they've got arethousands of years old.
Really, they are man.
Well, it's the old growtharound here.
This has never been cut aroundhere.

(31:27):
This, this, this has never beencut around here like nearby has
, but like right here, it hasnever been cut.
This is old growth, as it wasand as it should be, and we're
the height of land and we got somuch moose traffic through here
and then, like all the wildlife, the links, it's like a hub for
all the wildlife so the moosethat, like I know with cows
being a farmer, they always walkthe same path.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, and so the moose, generation after
generation.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Oh, yeah, we'll keep walking down those paths, really
, yeah, so you find those pathsand then you'll see moose like
that's, that's just where theygo, it's just where they've been
going for a thousand years.
It's where they go.
You know what I even got into?
I was looking on Google Earthand I was zooming down on some
of the areas and all that too.
And you look in some of themswamps and all that too.
You can see their paths ReallyFrom Google Earth.

(32:13):
You totally see their paths.
No shit, yeah, it'd be likeyou're in a swamp.
You'd be like, oh, they're noton that side of the swamp,
they's from Google Earth.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, that is awesome .
That's really cool.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
So I constantly try to learn it.
I learn about the moose.
I'm always I'm a steward here.
I'm working with the forestry,which the lumber company in the
area really works hard with usto try to make things work right
so we can keep our remotenessas long as they and they can get
their, you know, stimulate thelocal economy right.
So there's a fine line right.
So we always have to worktogether.

(32:48):
It's going real well that way.
We're discovering things we'repromoting, you know, like some
of the centre of Ontario stuff.
It's not necessarily, you know,you don't have to come to this
town to go get into a fly-in,you can.
But there's places you can go abrand-new hotel, all that stuff
, oh yeah, places you can go ifyou've got a little 14-foot

(33:09):
aluminum boat on a trailer.
There's great lakes to comeover here and it's just loaded
with little ponds and littlelakes and every nook and cranny
of the bush around here.
You know what I challengeeverybody Get on Google Earth
and go look at Hornpain area andgo look around it and you'd be
like, oh my God, man, there's somuch going on there.

(33:29):
Yeah, Pretty cool spot, wow.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
And speaking of Hornpain, we talked about it
being Chris King's hometown.
Yeah, but I've had the pleasureof traveling a lot of Northern
Ontario and a lot of northerntowns throughout the country
with the Fish and Canadatelevision show and the
hospitality that we felt when wecame into Hornpain to come here

(33:58):
was next level man oh they'reexcited, they're excited,
they're going to do a big pushNext level man.
Oh, they're excited, they'reexcited, they're going to do a
big push.
The manager at the Studio 6.
Odette, odette, yeah, andyourself, like I mean, I was in

(34:19):
horn pain for less than 18 hoursand when I jumped on your plane
I felt like it was home.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Right, it is home, like when we grew up.
As up, it is kids.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah Well, and the difference is, like you know,
shelburne used to be like that,but we've grown so quickly and
and but, but we always used tokind of know who was who and
everybody waves and andeverybody helps each other and
and we've kind of lost that feelin the population growth and

(34:51):
you haven't lost that here.
It's not like that here?

Speaker 1 (34:53):
No, no, we're still old school here, it's so cool
and welcoming.
It's like that feel small town,feel man Northern small towns.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
It'll be the same.
All these small towns, I knowAll of them up here man.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
You'll find friends.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Oh, all I want to do is put horn pain back on the map
.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Right, right, right.
So we hook up.
We got to get them there again,man, Get them back on the map
because it's such a specialplace.
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
The fishing around here and theangling and the hunting is just
incredible yeah so do you doany hunting out of here?
I do moose hunts, bear hunts,yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Well, let's talk a little bit about that, like how,
if I wanted to come here moosehunting as a guest, how would I
do that?
Do you provide a tag, do you?
I?

Speaker 1 (35:40):
provide tags.
My tag started off.
I made a lot of promises backthen, but my tags started off.
I had six bull tags.
Now I'm down to one.
Just because of the allocationsand how it works in Ontario,
I'm down from six to one.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Well, mel was just saying from Hearst Air, from
Hearst Air, yeah, that theirtags have dropped by 50%.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm evenworse than that.
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, I'meven worse than that, yeah, wow.
And she was concerned about thesustainability of their
business if it was to dropanother 50%.
And she said there's no warning.

(36:14):
Like, the ministry gave you nowarning about that and I just I
can't even believe how thatcould affect people.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Oh yeah, it leaves them up with.
You know, you try to plan outyour trips and try to plan out
your trips and get your, yourclients to come in and whatever.
But I mean like, if you don'tknow whether you're going to
have one or two, they only tellyou one year in advance.
Yeah, well, when you go fromsix tags to one tag, well,
you're talking, six years arealready spoken for more or less
right.
So you're, how do you go fromsix tags to one tag?
Well, you're talking six years,I've already spoken for more or
less right.
So how do you go about getting amoose tag?

(36:50):
I haven't even cleaned up mylist yet.
I got guys that are on thewaiting list, that are ready to
go, and as soon as I got anopportunity, I'm like, hey, man,
call, come on up.
They come up.
I promised it.
Yeah, I can only go by promisenow.
And they're like, oh, you know,we got an extra tag this year,
so we got jumped up one.

(37:11):
So if that's the case, thenright on, hey, kerry, come on up
.
Yeah, this is your year, rightnow.
And you'd be like, yeah, I'mcoming up and they're all on the
waiting list.
Yeah, that's all I can do?
Yeah, wow, that's, um, that'sunfortunate, you know, because
you know, for me too, I'm I'mmore about the conservation of

(37:31):
it all as well, so there's gotto be a reason for it, and I
have to try to understand that,you know.
And then, on the same notethough, if I had six tags right
here on this lake and Ifulfilled, and then if I
converted them to archery and Icould double up on them, right,
and if I fulfilled all thosetags, I'd obliterate my moose
population here, would you?

(37:52):
Yeah, so I gotta, I gotta, Ihave, even though I still, with
those numbers, I still have tobe the steward of this place.
I don't want to take that away,I want to make sure.
That's, yeah, you know.
So I'll plan out like I got gota couple of honey holes that we
go and hunt in, and I've got acouple of them that are closed
down for five years.
We're not going back in therefor another five years, gotcha,

(38:14):
and then we'll go do somethingelse, and if I don't have
another one, we're going to gofind one something elsewhere, so
that we can try to balance it alittle bit, gotcha.
Well, I didn't sign up for thatjob.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
I just feel like I have to.
Well, hey, every lodge ownerneeds to manage their resource
and implement conservationtechniques that are going to
make sure your resource isstrong.
I didn't realize that the moosepopulation was vulnerable in
that way, right, so maybe thereis something to it.

(38:48):
I was just thinking, wow, thatas a business, on the business
side of it, I know moose hunt'snot cheap.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
No, it's not cheap, and now, with your tag
reductions, the price of it isjust going to double up,
absolutely, absolutely, becauseyou've got to try and regain or
reclaim some of the lost revenue.
Yeah, you've got X amount thatyou're expecting for revenue in
the fall.
Well, you've got to reclaimthat with less tools?

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, that's interesting.
So, on that conservation note,what are you doing here as far
as your fishery, because it isan amazing fishery.
Like Dino and I stopped andRick, we've been together in the
boat for the last really twodays of fishing and we've found

(39:39):
a couple spots, although it'sbeen a little tough on the
bigger fish, but I know they'rehere and we're in the middle of
the mayfly hatch and there's alot of factors that go on with
that we can go out and eat acouple hundred eaters but that's
not what we came here for.
We came here for those big ones,but so many people do come for

(39:59):
those eaters, right, yeah, manydo.
Oh, I know, I know, and even intough conditions, if I had this
fishery on the Upper French,like I mean, to be able to send
my guests.
Like when we first got here, wewere standing on the deck and
you were talking about all thesespots, you know, this spot over

(40:21):
here, this spot over here, thatspot over there, we got this
spot here and this is doing that, and oh, yeah, that's like you
know, I'm thinking French Riverand Lake Nipissing, like I mean,
we drive like a half an hour tofish largemouth.
That's one spot.
We drive, you know, 35, 40minutes to fish walleye at some

(40:43):
times in the year.
I'm thinking in my head, right,because I hadn't really we flew
over the lake, but it's kind ofhard to know because from the
air you can't tell it happens sofast.
Yeah, and there's land massesand islands, and bays,
Especially this lake.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
This lake's just littered with fingers and things
.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Not only this lake every lake that you can see,
that's closed from the air,right.
So I had no real concept of ofum, of the spots you were
talking about.
And I and and I was like okay,okay, I'm trying to take it all
in.
And then we go out in the boatand I get up on plane and I'm
like holy shit, those are thosethree buoys right there.

(41:25):
Like I mean, I didn't even getit on the plane before, I had to
bring it down and I'm here.
And then the next one is on theother side of the peninsula.
You're on and we drive over tothat one and there's a buoy
marker there.
And I'm looking at the otherside of your island or the point
at the lodge.
I'm like I can't even believehow close all of this, these,

(41:49):
these spots are.
And you said something andwe've traveled along, we went up
into, uh, granite lake and andeverything else.
And you said something veryinteresting today at lunch,
because we got up early, yeah,and then went out and tried, uh,
tried for the, uh, for the hogs, right, we tried for those 30
incheye that I know, we all knowthey're here, they're there.

(42:10):
Peter caught a 28 the firstnight, just, you know, messing
around.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
I think it's that mayfly kind of kicked their
asses it did.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
But you said to me you know, I think we've got just
about everything right in herethat we need, like we've got
incoming water from the river,we've got this, oh back here.
Yeah, yeah, right, right, andthat's the place, that's right
in front of the lodge.
Like I mean the luxury as aguest to be able to leave the

(42:41):
dock confidently, navigate thewater close to the lodge and
have a shot to catch thosetrophy fish and like I mean a
ton of eaters For the first timein my life.
Last night I was telling youand I'm a muskie fisherman, I
love fishing muskies and Istarted figuriding different

(43:05):
species of fish and one of thefirst species that I did that
with was with smallmouth bass.
And I was doing a show with Angewhen I was a lodge owner from
Chaudiere, because they come upon a number of occasions and we
were fishing smallmouth and itwas tough, like I mean really

(43:27):
tough.
Yeah, uh, we the the weatherchanged every day.
It was bluebird skies, one dayrain, the next wind.
You don't like the weather wait10 minutes exactly.
Yeah and um, but typically we doget long stable weather
patterns that you can work with,or at least I remember those.
I choose to forget the otherones.

(43:47):
But we were out fishing thesesmallmouth and I had a smallie
follow-up and I go into a figureeight and Ang says what the
hell are you doing?
Figure eight in the smallmouth.
You know, he starts giving methe gears.
It was, you know, just buddiesbantering back and forth.
But it turned out that I didcatch one on a figure eight, not

(44:11):
on that shoot but on anothershoot.
But last night out here, righton the other side of the point,
here in front of your lodge,there's that marker on the shoal
, on that hump, but behind itthere's a 10-foot flat that has,
I'm imagining it's like shortgrass weeds because they're only

(44:36):
maybe a foot off the bottom.
Yeah, that's all.
It was like a little cabbagedown on the bottom, A little
cabbage, little, you know.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Whatever it is, it's still early in the year, like
another month from now, theweeds are going to be much
bigger.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Well, out there I was casting a Yozuri.
What was I casting, dean?
Oh, suspending bait.
They come out with a newsuspending bait last year and
this is the first time I've gota chance to use it and we were
looking through the crankbaitbox to make ourselves a box to

(45:08):
take in our boat and I grabbedthat one because I like the
color.
It looked like it was amid-diving bait.
You know, I wasn't sure.
You know, walleye will eat anykind of minnow bait, right, yeah
for sure.
So I was casting that out andgot one and had a big one follow
right over that grass, thatweed bed, and then we moved up

(45:29):
onto the sand on the backside ofthat point I cast out and they
were following, the walleye werefollowing like smallmouth, and
Dean and I were standing at theside of the boat.
I'm like look, look, look, look, look, the first one.
I pulled the lure out of thewater and instinctively I saw
the fish at the side of the boat.
I'm like, look, look, look,look, the first one.
I pulled the lure out of thewater and instinctively I saw
the fish at the side of the boat.
I jammed my rod in the waterand I went one turn and and it

(45:52):
looked and followed and itturned off the bait.
And the next time that I had awalleye follow I went right into
the figure eight and thatwalleye nosed right up just like
a muskie nosed in that figureeight and went around four turns
before it turned away.
I stopped.
Come on, and that was asexciting.

(46:14):
What it didn't bite.
No, I couldn't get it to bite,but that again, like I mean,
we've had the weather right,we've had highs, lows, but still
A little confused.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
They are right now.
This week A little bit I'veseen like lots of pike t-boning
the walleye.
You bring in a walleye, oh yeah, big old northern come in, like
40-incher come in and just.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Well, I think, dino, on the last shoot that happened
to you, I had that with a muskieon a largemouth?

Speaker 7 (46:42):
yeah, on Pipestone Lake Tell that story.
I told it on the last OutdoorJournal radio.
Actually we have a whole videoaccompanying it so I'll save it.
I'll send those guys there.
So the Cedar Island Lodgeepisode we did you can hear the
whole muskie story.
We have lots of audio and videothere too.
You can go watch it.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Okay, that's great, dino, and do me a favor.
The next time you're on OutdoorJournal, send some people over
this way.

Speaker 7 (47:10):
Well, we just did that on ODJ.
Oh yeah, that's because I wasthere.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, no, you guys treat me very well.
You always send all kinds ofpeople, but no, so the walleye
fishery here is unique.
It's awesome.
And back to the originalquestion about it what do you do
to protect that resource?

Speaker 1 (47:37):
So we've done this long before.
This was kind of a common thingup north was the catch and
release for the bigger fish.
So we started off for thebigger fish.
So we started off with thewalleye.
We were 21 inches and over.
This is back in the 80s withthe guys I used to work for.
So they put it in and it wasserious.
It was a serious rule.
It was the only rule we had.
Let those big fish go back.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
What happened when I imagine you got a lot of 80s and
90s.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Oh my gosh, we lost customers.
We lost guests but we builtthem back up.
Yeah, and nowadays it's alittle different.
People are more conservationFor sure than they were in the
past.
Right, so now it's an easy the.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Fish and Canada television show over the years
has had a lot to do with that.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, they may not admit it, but they're, they
always talk about it, absolutely.
Every episode they talk about,you know, letting those ones
back out and everything.
Yeah, so for those years we hadthis catch-release program.
We lost guys, whatever, and Iwas just an employee back then,
right, but it was a serious ruleand we stuck to it throughout
the 90s, into the 2000s, andthen 2008 I bought and I

(48:51):
implemented just as serious hereon this lake as well.
So all our guests, all ourcustomers, love it.
They go and let off a nice bigwalleye or pike or something, or
even a big perch for thatmatter, cut them loose and
they're like you know.
They know they're going to comeback to them.
They know that we support thatsystem so strongly that they

(49:13):
leave it in our hands.
So everyone practices their ownconservation, but they leave it
in our hands to make sure wekeep that spirit alive here and
we do, wow.
So you know you come back to it.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
And that was one thing that I always envied
because I was on a really bigbody of water, which was a great
advantage in some ways.
But in other ways I had somecontrol of what I did as the
owner of the Chaudière Lodge.
But Lake Nipissing is tied forthe second largest lake inside

(49:50):
Ontario, borders with LakeSimcoe.
There was a commercial fisheryon there.
We had the natives where theyhad their own fishery there.
There was not any conservationtaken by any of the previous
lodge owners other than what theministry had said.

(50:11):
And for a long time in the 90slike I mean it was you were
allowed to take six walleye perperson and every person that was
at Chaudière in maximumcapacity back then, which
through the late 70s, 80s and90s Tony and Betsy Stinson the
owners.
They did an excellent job andthey were full and everybody

(50:35):
took their six each.
Maximum capacities 40 people aweek.
Start doing the math right.
And that's just one lodgethere's at that time how many
more At that time?
There's?
That's just one lodge there'sat that time.
How many more At that timethere's?
Well, never mind how many morethen.
Today there's probably 50% lesslodges and just on the Upper
French River alone there's three.

(50:57):
There used to be four On LakeNipissing.
There's got to be.
You know, I'm going to say adozen more operations.
And then you add the commercialfishery on top of that pressure
, and the marinas.
You add the marinas.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Marinas red boats.
They don't have to go to thelodge, just rent a boat.
That's right, they're efficient.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Well, and it was one of the most popular places to
fish and it goes back into the20s where there was white
sturgeon there and that was oneof the at one time they were one
of the largest exporters ofcaviar come out of Lake
Nipissing to the point wherethere are sturgeons still left,

(51:39):
but they're what.
Was that not expropriated?
But they're protected and Ihave never seen one.
I've heard stories about them.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
It's like the caribou around here.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yeah, and then you add the ice fishery, which now
all of a sudden you're givingaccess to people that don't even
need boats, and the tourismindustry is a great thing, but
the immense pressure that was onthat fishery was crazy.
And then in the early 2000s,through the 80s and 90s, they

(52:19):
had a whole the ministry had awhole team dedicated to looking
after the watershed.
They had like 10 or 12 peoplefull-time on staff watching.
That's a big lake Absolutely,and you need that, yes, and not
just game wardens.
This is scientists andbiologists.

(52:39):
And then in the early 2000s theycut the budget.
The government cut the budgetdown to one person part-time,
and it just happened that therewas a.
They didn't know this was goingto happen how could anybody?
But there was an invasivespecies that we still have

(53:00):
called the spiny water flea, andwhen the biologists left in the
late 90s or were told theydidn't have a job, they had set
out quotas for the fisheries andthey said you know, you're good
to harvest 98,000 tons a yearof walleye from now until the

(53:25):
end of time, and and whathappened was and and I bought
chaudiere at the tail end of ofthe, the devastation, I'm going
to call it?
Um, there wasn't enoughbiologists.
Well, there was one person,part-time, and you can't blame
that person.
But what happened was the spinywater flea got into Lake

(53:49):
Nipissing, and they thrive inshallower water lakes because
they hunt by sight and what theydo is they attack the ecosystem
at its base and they eat thezooplankton right.
So now you've got your, yourwhole, your whole fishery is

(54:19):
being undermined by the waterfleas because by July some years
, they had the zooplanktoncleaned up, which meant that
that didn't leave any forage foryour forage base.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Your, your, well, that's even your minnows, your
little fry, your fry, your, youknow and that's the big thing,
because then the fry, that'swhat teaches them to, you know,
on their own right.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Zooplankton first yes , yeah and um and and by 2009.
When I bought, the old ownerdidn't even want me to go
fishing.
Like when I come to look at theplace, I brought my own boat.
He was an alcoholic.
He's like hey, you like yourprop?
I said, well, as a matter offact, I do Well, leave it on the

(54:57):
boat, you're going to leave iton the trailer.
You're going to smash your prop.
So I left it on there.
But after I bought it andrealized the state of the
fishery, I was like, oh yeah, Iget it now.
And it scared the shit out ofme because I was new.
I'm selling a fishery.
At that time.

(55:18):
There were still some big ones,but the numbers were down.
I didn't have.
I had two guides at the timeBilly Commando we talked about
him on the last podcast andPurple God rest his soul passed
in the middle of my first seasonand then Billy two weeks later
said hey, purple, yeah, bobViolette yeah, from uh san suzy

(55:43):
no sturgeon falls sturgeon fallsokay, yeah I guess there's a
couple purples there.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Probably is there, probably is but summer, I guess
violets their last name and someisn't.

Speaker 7 (55:55):
Yes we don't know why they call purple nice but I
lost purple.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Uh billy three weeks later said hey, I got a job up
north, I'm leaving.
I had no guides, I didn't know.
I had been on Lake Nipissingonce with the last call with
Peter and Ange when they did areality TV show.
And then I had been on thewater once when I was looking at
the lodge and I didn't have anytime to be on the water when I

(56:24):
was running the lodge,especially in my first year, and
the fishery sucked it was hard.
It was hard, and at that pointthey come down on the limits
hard, like.
I mean it had started a coupleof years prior to me buying it.

(56:45):
It went from six down to fourthe year after I mean it, it
started a couple of years priorto me buying it it went from six
down to four.
As the year after I bought itit went down from four to two.
And then it was uh, there was aslot.
It wasn't actually a slot,there was a dead zone.
You couldn't keep the fishbetween yeah, between oh my
goodness, that was awful 18, andthen they went to you could

(57:08):
well to this day.
Well, after that slot, theyrealized that it wasn't working
so well.
Well, it wasn't the fact thatit wasn't working so well.
They realized that, forwhatever reason, they had three
huge year classes.
The weather and conditions musthave been very good for
spawning for three years.

(57:29):
It was like 2009, 10, and 11.
And then they changed the slotto you could keep anything over
18 inches and for those four orfive years Under and over.
There was no under.
You weren't allowed to keepunder.
You could only keep over.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
I remember that.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
I didn't think that made much sense at all to me.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Well, it didn't, until you looked into it a
little bit, and I think whattheir methodology was was they
were doing creel surveys all thetime, like you would be out in
the boat, I'd be out guiding orwhatever.
And they, hey, we're from theministry how many fish did you
catch?
How big were they?
This and that, how long did youfish?

(58:16):
And I think that and this isn'tfact, but I've heard it from a
couple of different sources andit makes sense they realized
that the number of big fish thatwere left they were going to
for the good of the fishery, um,and they believed that if they

(58:36):
had to do it, they were going tosacrifice those big fish to
protect those three years ofyear.
Class Right, get them going,that's right.
So they figured there's somesense to that, though, yeah,
yeah, well, and you know what Ican honestly say, and it hurt me

(58:57):
as a lodge owner, it hurt me totry and do shore lunches, and
if you're a guide and you go outand the first, like I mean over
18, if you can catch, you gotyour four guests in the boat.
If you can catch at least fouror five walleye that were 19

(59:20):
inches, 18 inches, 19, 20 inches.
You're golden.
You're golden, but it didn'thappen a lot.
We were catching like 30 ofthese of these year class that
were, like you know, 12, 13, 14inches.
All the all the time you couldyou could go out and have a 100
fish day, but to catch a keeperwas difficult and what happened

(59:46):
was you go out on the water, yougot the pressure of getting a
shore lunch and the first fishthat you know you stick.
And it happened.
I'm not going to say it wasevery day, but it happened a lot
where you catch a 25-incher ora 28-incher or a 30-incher, and

(01:00:07):
how do you look at the gueststhat are paying you to take them
out for an experience, to havea shore lunch?
And everybody talks aboutwalleye, walleye, walleye.
I want to eat walleye.
And you say, well, you know, Idon't know if we're going to
catch enough keepers to eat, butwe should throw this one back.

(01:00:27):
Yeah, I couldn't do it.
And so what I could do in thatplace to try and help my fishery
was promote eating smallmouthnorthern and we would try and do

(01:00:48):
that.
But you know, you couldn't getaway from it.
And having said that, afterbeing I've been there for 15
years now.
The fishery is better now.
It's much better now.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
You see it out in Georgian Bay, like where we're
at Simcoe and everything too,Like even these little lakes
that you know we're a fly-in, sowe've been able to kind of have
a thumb on our fishery and such, and so we're.
But there's places that we'relike you couldn't fish.
Driving you couldn't catch anyfish.

(01:01:25):
No, you can, yeah, wow.
I think what they've done.
I think what they've done.
I just feel like what they'vedone the over and under yeah,
you can keep under one over iswhat they got around here.
But it's not like I don't know,ontario's all different right,
yeah, but what they've done isand has improved the fishing for
, like drive-in places, quad-inplaces, all that stuff.

(01:01:47):
It's just amazing.
So anybody can really go outnow Nowadays can go out and find
a little pond and go catch fishin it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Yeah, which is great.
I think it worked well.
You know, on Nipissing, now wehave a slot and it sounds
ridiculous but you can keep twobetween 40 and 45 centimeters,
which leaves you a keeper slotof like two and a half inches.

(01:02:15):
It's it's tight.
But having said that, havingsaid that, I was up uh at uh,
the island, uh, last week,before I actually come straight
there from the island to meetthese guys in North Bay to come
here Twice, we went out and wecaught.
We only had my son and hisbuddy, who are underage to get a

(01:02:40):
license, so they were fishingon Dean, my buddy and my license
, so we could keep four keepers,which was lots to take back and
eat.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
To get a taste or just something.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Well, we could keep four, and they're like 18 inches
, well between 40 and 45centimeters, and we limited out
both times Right.
So as much as it sounds likeit's tight, it's way easier now
to catch a shore lunch than itwas 10 years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
So it's working, yes, but that's the thing, though,
like we can implement somethingand it may take years to figure
out that it's actually working.
So that's proof in the puddingright there.
And if it's working and I knowthe over and under that we've
done here on these lakes hastotally paid off that's just.
That's awesome nowadays.
And he had covid.
It was like, oh yeah, nobodyfishing at covid and it was just

(01:03:34):
like a real, real lull of atime.
But I mean it was just betterfor the lake, yeah so the one,
the one good thing you couldtake from COVID.
Not so much at the accessiblelakes, though Accessible lakes
because every Tom, dick andHarry bought a boat during COVID
and went out fishing, becausethat's the only thing you can do
without fishing.

(01:03:55):
Yeah, might not have been goodon the accessible lakes so much,
but it'll come back.
It was already, but it'll comeback.
It was already.
The fishing has already gottenbetter.
Yeah so then COVID hit, guyswere out fishing and then it
made a whole bunch of newanglers out there.
Yeah so, which is great, that'sit right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
And that's a positive spin.
Yeah, well, that's what peopleneed.
After being locked up againsttheir will for this COVID thing,
they need to get out now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
We were locked up here.
There was six of us here forthe whole summer.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Oh my God, that would have been a great place to be
locked up, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Well, I don't know, I'm not going to brag, yeah, but
you know what made us realize?
Because we've been so manyyears up here doing this for
tourism.
And then, when it was just usup here, it gave me a new love
for it.
I was just like no, this placeis meant to be shared.
Yes, it's not just for us, thisdoesn't belong to us.

(01:04:55):
This place is meant to beshared, and that's what we're
here for is to share this place.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
And that takes us full circle to why this place is
this place and the facility'sgreat and everything else, and
you can have great facilities ongreat bodies of water, but if
you don't have that, if youdon't have that as an owner,

(01:05:20):
you're not going to make it, andthat's so key.
But listen, think back.
You've been in the business forso long.
Tell us one of your mostmemorable stories, like, tell us
the one that you tell a lot ofpeople, or just something that
comes into your head.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
All right, all right, I think about this for a second
.
This is so many, I'm justtrying to put my thumb on one.
So what are you looking for?
Are you looking for, like,hunting, fishing, something
funny, something sad?

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
It doesn't matter, it doesn't even have to be fishing
.
It can be with planes, like Imean, you're in planes.
It can be with trapping, it canbe with buddies, it can be with
anything that's happened uphere, like it can be with
anything that's happened up here, like I mean, there are so many

(01:06:11):
things that I look at whatyou're dealing with and how you
built it, and memorable momentswith guests.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Yeah, I know, it just feels like those stories just
come out when they happen.
Yeah, they roll.
Now I'm on the spot.
I got to think of one.
You gave me writer's block here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Oh, buddy, I'll tell you when I was at Chaudière
there was yes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
that'll give you a chance to think one up.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Yeah, yeah, and it'll trigger something.
There were so many guests thatI met and got along with and
everything else.
And there was this one fella,dave, and he had started this
business and this was in 2010,2011.

(01:06:57):
And it was like an AI businessor not AI, it was like an ISO
business, where he would go.
He built software that mademanufacturing companies more
efficient.
And he was just going on thestock exchange and I said, oh,
no shit, I'm going to.
You know what?
Maybe I'll buy some of that.

(01:07:18):
And he said, well, yeah, youknow, we've got a great this and
that, but he wasn't selling meby any means, not at all.
And so, at the same time, atthe dinner table in the dining
room where Dave and I are havingthis conversation, there was

(01:07:38):
another fellow there and he said, well, yeah, that you know.
And I said, you know, maybeI'll kick five grand into that,
make some money, right.
And this fellow, this otherfellow, he says, yeah, that you
know.
And I said, you know, maybeI'll kick five grand into that,
make some money, right.
And this fellow, this otherfellow, he says, yeah, you could
do that, or you could buyBitcoin.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Oh yeah.
I didn't even know, whatBitcoin was.
I don't even want to learn whatthat is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Well, I'll tell you, I got too old for that.
This story.
So Bitcoin in 2011, 2011, and Idid the math, I went on and
it's all historical.
I invested in Dave Right, yourDave From.
Camp From Shortier.

(01:08:19):
He's my guest and I've doneokay, I haven't even doubled my
money.
But I've done okay, I haven'teven doubled my money, but I've
done, okay, yeah, I haven't lostit.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yeah, so that's all right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Yeah, it's good, but in 2011, if I had bought Bitcoin
, that $5,000 would have beenworth like $128 million.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Oh my goodness, there's something stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
folks Go do the math.
When I saw the number, I didn'teven know how to say it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
I don't even understand the concept of
Bitcoin.
I'm going to just carry on mylife.
I'm not even going to worryabout it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Yeah, Well, you don't have to worry about it out here
.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Yeah, my kids can figure out Bitcoin.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Whatever, but I'm not in, I'm out.
So you know, I'm going to gofigure out where moose shit is
Speaking of that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Yeah, that's so cool, the stuff that you see here and
everything else.
But you know, I reallyappreciate this time with you
and I'll tell you what we'regoing to.
We're going to use this as ahook.
All right, we're going to this.

(01:09:29):
This is a hook for our nextepisode.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Yeah, Sounds good, man, I'm good with that.
So you, you, you you.
I'll drum it up, I'll drum itup.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
You know, what I'm not even going to with you is a
story.
Yeah, I know, so listen.
Thank you so much.
No, we'll do that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
We'll do that for sure, yeah, yeah, check in with
me once in a while too, and Ican give you a little bit.
Absolutely yeah, for sure.
A hundred percent We'll getinto we'll get into.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
You know, another great podcast would be talking
about operations andorganization and how you
actually make a lodge work fromour perspective.
You wing it, fake it till youmake it baby.
That's what I, that's what Idid.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
I tell my guests I'm like I don't even know what my
day is ahead of me.
Yeah, I wake up in the morning,I have my coffee and my day
presents itself yeah, and thisis what I'm doing today, and it
may change.
Like I can't plan my day.
Like today I had to fly out toan outpost.
Yeah, to go work on a lowerunit.
Yeah, yeah, right.

(01:10:35):
So it was just like that BoomGot it.
My day's changed Right on.
Well, that's the cool thing,but that's the cool thing, but I
think it makes it interestingtoo.
Well, a hundred percent younever know what you're going to
get into right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
But again, thank you very much and thank you folks
out there.
If you've got to this point Ireally appreciate it.
And you know what I'm going to.
I'm going to say night night toNixon out there again.
All you folks know that he'sthe little fellow that that I

(01:11:06):
met at the Sportsman Show thisyear and he listens to diaries
of a lodge owner and that's whatputs him to sleep.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Oh well, night-night Nixon.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Yeah, yeah, he sent me this wonderful little clip, a
voice clip on Messenger orsomething like that, and he
wished me goodnight.
He said you wish me goodnight,so I want to wish you goodnight.
That's cool.
It was one of the best moments.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
A little outfitter in the making.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Oh he very well might be, he very well might be.
So anyway, folks, thank you forgetting to this point.
I really appreciate it.
And if you like what we'redoing here, like subscribe, tell
a friend.
It builds our family out and itreally helps us out.
And thank you to Dino forrunning the board.

(01:11:53):
You got any magic buttons youcan press there.

Speaker 7 (01:11:57):
I have one to walk you out with.
Oh nice.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
And I also want to thank our producer, anthony
Mancini, and our sponsors.
We really appreciate LakesideMarina up in Kenora.
You guys do a wonderful job.
Look them up, and again, all ofyou.
And thus brings us to theconclusion All right, another

(01:12:24):
episode of Diaries of a LodgeOwner.
Stories of the North yes, woo.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
That's good.
That is good, I'm a good oldboy.

Speaker 5 (01:12:38):
Never meanin' no harm .

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
I'll be all you ever saw, been railin' in the hog
since the day I was born.

Speaker 5 (01:12:48):
Bending my rock, stretching my line.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Someday I might own a lodge, and that'd be fine.

Speaker 6 (01:13:00):
I'll be making my way .

Speaker 5 (01:13:03):
The only way I know how.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
Working hard and sharing the North with all of my
pals.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Well, I'm a good old boy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
I bought a lodge and lived my dream, and now I'm here
talking about how life can beas good as it seems.

Speaker 6 (01:13:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:13:33):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.

(01:13:54):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal use by
Indigenous peoples all over theglobe.
After nearly a decade of harvestuse, testimonials and research,

(01:14:17):
my skepticism has faded toobsession and I now spend my
life dedicated to improving thelives of others through natural
means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm

(01:14:41):
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people.
That will help you find youroutdoor passion and help you
live a life close to nature andunder the canopy.
Find Under the Canopy now onSpotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.

Speaker 4 (01:15:02):
Back in 2016,.
Frank and I had a vision toamass the single largest
database of muskie anglingeducation material anywhere in
the world.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community and share itwith passionate anglers just
like you.

Speaker 4 (01:15:17):
Thus the Ugly Pike podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North
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Speaker 3 (01:15:24):
Step into the world of angling adventures and
embrace the thrill of the catchwith the Ugly Pike Podcast.
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Speaker 4 (01:15:38):
The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing.
It's about creating atight-knit community of
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