Episode 106: Lessons From a Lifetime Guide

Spend an hour with JP Bushey, and you'll quickly understand why his reputation as one of eastern Georgian Bay's premier fishing guides has spread far beyond Ontario's shores. Unlike those who picked up a rod five years ago after watching a YouTube sensation, JP's connection to these waters spans four generations – fishing isn't just what he does, it's literally in his blood.

When JP made the leap from corporate life to full-time guiding a decade ago, even he was surprised by how quickly his business flourished. The secret? A rare combination of exceptional fishing knowledge and genuine passion for creating memorable experiences. "You're with these people for eight-plus hours straight," JP explains. "The fishing's a big part of it, but you've got to keep the wheels on the bus turning." This philosophy has earned him a loyal clientele who return year after year.

What sets Georgian Bay apart, according to JP, is the remarkable variety accessible within minutes rather than hours. Lake trout, smallmouth bass, walleye, pike, and trophy muskies all thrive within what he describes as "a 1.5 kilometer circle" around his dock. This proximity not only maximizes fishing time but creates opportunities for anglers to experience multiple species in a single outing – a rarity in many destinations.

Throughout the conversation, JP shares priceless insights about seasonal patterns, particularly his love for topwater fishing when water temperatures consistently reach the 70s and cabbage patches begin showing "pokers" breaking the surface. For younger anglers especially, the visual excitement of surface strikes creates instant connection and confidence. "That's a powerful thing for a young mind – it's a confidence thing. I can do it. He showed me how to do it. He told me this was going to happen and I made it happen."

Perhaps most moving is JP's passionate plea for conservation alongside enjoyment. "Put as much time, care and passion into handling them nice as you did into driving up there and catching one," he advises, noting that every angler becomes personally responsible for the resource the moment a fish enters their net. It's this balance of excitement and stewardship that defines truly great guides – something JP Bushey has clearly mastered.

Ready to experience Georgian Bay's legendary fishing? Search for Bushey Angle Guided Fishing and prepare for an adventure that might just change how you see the sport forever.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
yeah, there's going to be a real reversal coming up
here very, very soon wherepeople have said you know what,
I've had enough of this, uh,instagram and my kids being
glued to their phone andheadphones and all this other
nonsense, and it seems to be ashift is happening right now
where, um, the value and thelessons and the entertainment in

(00:26):
what we do fishing-wise isgoing to really spring up and
people are seeing the value ofit for their kids.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
This week on the Outdoor Journal, radio Podcast
Networks, diaries of a LodgeOwner, stories of the North
Folks.
We're dropping the anchor andreeling in stories from one of
the sharpest anglers to everguide the waters of South
Central Ontario.
And he's no stranger to earlymornings, long casts and the

(00:57):
kind of fish tales that can onlycome from a life spent on the
water and sometimes in themiddle of it.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
It is now my pleasure to introduce to all of you the
man behind Bushy Angled GuidedFishing JP.
Bushy.
On this show, jp and I tellstories of our season together
at the lodge and how, over theyears, he's carved out his
reputation through hard work,grit and a deep understanding of

(01:27):
the lakes, the fish and theclients who chase them, and
maybe begin to understand whatmakes this career more than just
a job but a calling.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
So if you want to hear what it takes to turn
fishing into a lifestyle, oryou're just here for the laughs,
mishaps and the ones that gotaway, this episode is right in
your strike zone.
Here's my conversation with JPBushy.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Welcome folks to another episode of Diaries of a
Lodge Owner Stories of the North.
And I am again.
I'm always excited to talk toguests, but this guest is
someone who has a special placein my heart.
He bailed me out for a yearback in the old lodge days at

(02:21):
Chaudière when my guiding partof the business was starting to
take off and I was always shortguides.
And JP Bushy come into my lifeand was a godsend, because this
man I didn't know about hisguiding abilities at the time,

(02:45):
but the first thing that Iquickly realized about JP was he
was one hell of an angler.
Now, being a hell of an anglerdoesn't always equal a great
guide, but this guy has it all.
And JP, thank you for that andwelcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Buddy, it's my pleasure, it's my pleasure, and
in many ways, that opportunityand welcome to the show, buddy,
it's my pleasure, it's mypleasure, and in many ways that
opportunity bailed me out too.
I was new in the guidingbusiness and to this day, as a
matter of fact, coming up thiscoming week for three days, I
still have many, many folks thatChaudier introduced me to back
then that still fish with meregularly to this day.

(03:25):
So it was, it was a godsend forboth of us.
Buddy, absolutely no doubt andthat that fishery obviously, uh,
we both know was, uh, that'llmake any, that'll make any
fishermen look good up there anduh, it was just as big of a
thrill and an opportunity for metoo well, thank you.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
yeah, some of those people that, uh, that you.
There's a couple in particularnear and dear to my heart, uh,
jordan and uh, uh, my, uh, mywife's cousin.
I guess I guess they're cousins, um, but Jordan and Jacqueline,
yeah, I was just, I was just attheir wedding.
They just got married, that'sright, that's right.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
The only excuse for not booking is a wedding.
So I'll, I'll.
I'm willing to accept that.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Well, there you go.
I guess that one works, but uh,every time they went out with
you, they always texted mepictures and everything else and
had an absolutely awesome time.
They just, they just love you,and that's a testament all on
its own.
So, yeah, Well, listen, JP, whydon't we get into your brain

(04:33):
and figure out what may?
Where did the passion to guidecome?

Speaker 1 (04:38):
from.
Quite literally, it was borninto me.
I've got two sons that are 11and 13 years old, and they're
four generations, uh, of bushiesto fish here on eastern
georgian bay, um, where I, whereI run my business.
And, uh, although I didn'tdescend from a guide per se, um,

(05:00):
I wasn't one of these guys whodecided they liked fishing five
years ago because of a youtuberthat they watched or a magazine
that they picked up.
It was quite literally borninto my blood.
I was born on the bay and, um,like you talked about earlier,
there's, there's two halves toit.
Right, it's, it's, it's.
You've got to know where thefish are and you got to enjoy

(05:24):
seeing it all every day for thefirst time through somebody
else's eyes.
And I was out this morning witha group lake trout fishing, and
when that fish is chasing up onthe graph and the rod dumps
over the side of the boat, Idon't care if it's the 9000th
lake trout I've seen do thatlike today, or it's my first
every time.
Trout I've seen do that liketoday, or it's my first every

(05:48):
time, and I think that.
I think that I got a chance todive into this thing head first
about 10 years ago and for me itwasn't really a choice.
It wasn't really a choice.
I had an opportunity with theemployer that I was working with
at the time in the real jobworld to take the plunge.
I had massive, massive supportfrom my entire family and they

(06:11):
all kind of said you know whatdo you want to do?
And I said you know what I wantto do.
And they said, can you do it?
And I said, give me a year, letme, let me take a shot.
And I know I can do it.
And, uh, the first year kind ofsurprised everyone, not not,
not the least of which surprisedme.
And it's grown every year since.
And um, I get, I get a lot ofquestions and a lot of uh people

(06:34):
reaching out to me over theyears, especially since COVID,
when a lot of people arerethinking their nine to five
lives and all this kind of stuff.
And and I give, I giveeverybody the same answer is you
better, love it?
Cause it's not, it's not, it's,and nobody knows this better
than you.
It's not like you decide toroll out of bed at 7am and go

(06:55):
float around in a boat and castall day.
This is not a nine to five gig,it's a lifestyle.
I am the sales and marketingdepartment, I'm the booking
agent, I'm the outboardrepairman, I am the uh, uh, you
know the scheduler, I'm theaccountant.
And it goes far deeper than just, uh, dragging people around in

(07:17):
the boat from seven to threeevery day, or whatever hours
they want to fish.
It's very much an immersive, um, taxing, uh way to make a
living, and the advantage that Ihave is I was put on this earth
to do it.
It's what I'm supposed to do.
You said that to me one time,you, you.
You said there's fishermen andJP, you are a guide.

(07:37):
And I kind of think, I kind of.
That always resonated with me.
Steve, I think I am, I thinkthat's what I was born to do.
I've done the shirt and tiething, I've done the downtown
Toronto thing, I've done thecommuting thing.
I've slugged it out with asledgehammer, I've slugged it
out in stamping plants, and thisis it's not work.
It's work, but it's not work.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, yes.
And and the other key thing forpeople to understand is it's
not fishing either.
You know it's far from fishing.
I've been thinking aboutdipping my toes in those waters.
Up here on the French, I've gotthis beautiful island and

(08:21):
cottages and, well, cottage andbunkies and I've been thinking
about renting my place out hereto groups and then guiding them
as well, because it's an awesomeplace to share the experiences
you can see here, just like onG-Bay.

(08:43):
They're amazing experiences.
But you know, I go in the boatand I remember what it was like
to be thrown in to guide,because I did guide.
That's.
The only time I really got onthe water was when I and folks,
you all, you've heard me say itlots of times I got to go on the

(09:05):
water when one of my guidesdidn't show up or I overbooked
and I was thrown into it and Iwould always go out with the
preface that hey, listen, I'mnot a guide, because it come
with a little bit extra pressure.
Because as soon as they heardthat they were going out with
the owner, all of a sudden itwas like, oh my God that they
were going out with the ownerall of a sudden it was like oh

(09:27):
my God, we're going out with theowner and he must be the best,
when I wasn't like I mean.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
I wasn't on the water every day.
There was a couple of times youwere.
I remember very distinctly Mattand I talk about it to this day
Matt O'Brien and I talk abouthis day the old september hole,
and we all came in.
We all came in and, uh, we hadour scribs and scraps but you
spanked them on more than oneoccasion.
I do recall that very matt andI still talk about that that was
a.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
That was.
That was my crowning moment.
That was.
I don't know if I've ever toldthat story on diary.
That's a good story and billywas mad.
I know it was mad.
I, I know.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Billy was mad.
I know you turned the lightsout.
You cleaned all of us up thatday.
I remember that very well.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, well, it happened.
We were with the.
Oh, I was with.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Big group.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, teddy and Frank , and they were from the Tribute
Homes group, right, they comeup year after year and we all
took off from the dock and Ialways had Frank McPhee God rest
his soul.
Remember Big Frank Yep, heloved to party Yep.

(10:39):
And Teddy and a couple of otherguys they always come with me
Didn't really care too muchabout the fishing but they
insisted that they wanted tospend some time with me.
So I was always cool with it,cause I loved those guys and I
watched all you guys head outand uh, we went out, uh, and I
would always just take them outto the uh Comfort Island Shoal.

(11:00):
Um, it was always good, it waseasy, easy for me, they were
familiar with it.
So we went out to the comfortisland shoal and there was
nothing going on, like nothing.
And uh, we're kind of watchingthe other boats you and, and
billy and and matt and and Ithink marcel was there too and

(11:22):
uh, you guys were all headingtowards the lake and it was kind
of rough.
So I said to Frank and Teddy, Isaid you know they're all going
that way.
I know a spot that I heard about, actually through Billy, one of
the guys, johnny Doe Keese overat the reserve, had told Billy

(11:46):
about this spot a few yearsearlier at least, I think, and I
overheard about this.
Well, billy actually told meabout it then and I said you
know, the spot's calledSeptember Hole and this was like
the 10th of September, yeah.
And I said I kind of know whereit is.

(12:07):
I'm not a hundred percent sure,but I know where it is.
Do you guys want to go outwhere they're going, or do you
want to go back to Septemberhole?
I know it's nice and shelteredIt'll be, it'll be, it won't be
rough at all.
And they said, oh fuck, yeah,let's go to September hole.
I'm like okay, so off, we go toSeptember Hole.
And we got in there and theywere just there Like, oh yeah,

(12:31):
big ones, yeah, that was backwhen it was 18.
Was it you could keep two over18 inches?

Speaker 1 (12:39):
That's what you're looking for.
Were two overs yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, so we come back , and we had a limit of of big
wall, big walleye, and we werelike, I mean, we had them, I
don't know, in the first hour orso we, we kept on throwing big
fish back, like it was.
It was one of those days, uh,nevermind, as a guide, as an

(13:03):
angler you dream about, and I'msitting there in the boat with
these guys and and uh, and theyare having a wow, we were all
having a ball.
It was the best.
But for me I'm like, well, guys, if and they're like oh, like I
mean there's no way they'redoing this good.
And I said, no, I know, but Ididn't think that like I thought

(13:26):
, well, if we're doing this good, they gotta be doing really
good.
Well, I think we were one ofthe last boats to come in.
That was the old uh, that wasthe old um tournament uh trick,
where you know you got a big bagand you kind of hold back until
everybody's, everybody shore.
So we come in and Teddy wentdown.

(13:47):
He says let me carry them up.
I want to carry them up.
So I said, yeah, no problem.
So we put them all in the netand the fucking net was like
bulging and Teddy carried themup and I'll never forget.
You guys started making a bigdeal out of it Like, oh my God,
look at this.
And Billy looked up and he saidStevie, where'd you get those?

(14:11):
I'm like September Hall,september Hall, where do you go
to September Hall?
I told you about September Hall.
I said I know you told me aboutSeptember Hall.
Well, why did you go there?
I said because I don't know.
And he got mad.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
That's a very good Billy Commanda.
Billy's turned into one of mygood friends.
I absolutely love the guy.
Billy's the best.
That's a very good BillyCommanda impersonation.
I've got a decent one too, andI'll never forget the very first
time you sent me out it waswith a big group and it was with
Billy, and I was all fired upand jacked up.
I'd heard about the legend andcouldn't believe I was going to

(14:52):
get to spend the day in his areaand doing lunch with him, and
I'll never, I'll never, I'llnever forget this.
I tell this story to people allthe time.
I walked straight up to himbefore we we blasted off in the
morning and said Billy, we'regoing to do shore lunch together
.
Where do you want to have shorelunch today, billy?
He looks me dead in the faceand goes I don't know somewhere
on the fucking shore.
I guess that's what he said.

(15:13):
Oh no, what a beauty, what abeauty.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Oh, he's a beauty, another great.
And Billy, I was actually justI'm up here at the cottage on
the French right now and we hadour annual Ned Zwicky Baird week
with our friends Dean and SamBaird.
They've got kids that are thesame age as my kids Very nice,

(15:39):
and we always take Billy out.
So we had Billy out two orthree days ago and just spanked
him again.
But, um, you know, billy is, um,billy has got a very dry sense
of humor and um, uh, you reallyneed to get to know him for him
to open up to you.

(15:59):
And um, I and, and I rememberdoing those shore lunches with
bigger groups and we wouldalways get together and do the
shore lunch together.
Well, we were out there withthis one group and everybody is
really excited for the shorelunch and inevitably they want
to help.
But when you don't know how todo it, get out of the way, yeah,

(16:22):
yeah.
So I remember there was thisone one fellow who was
overenthusiastic and he he'sright up in Billy's grill and
he's like Billy, what can I,what can I do to help you, man?
What can I do to help you?
And, and without skipping abeat, billy looks up, looks at
him and says stay out of myfucking kitchen at him and says

(16:49):
stay out of my fucking kitchen.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, what I?
I?
I got the spatula across theknuckles one time, one of the
first times, because I put acouple of pieces of walleye in
the pan skin side up and notdown, so they'd curl.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and Iwas.
I was reaching back into thebag to snip out a few more and I
got the spatula across theknuckles.

Speaker 5 (17:08):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
What a beauty.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Oh yeah, he is the best, though, Like I mean, once
you get to know Billy, he'sphenomenal, and I got to say for
a thousand percent on Nipissingand the upper French river,
there is nobody that knowswalleye better than Billy
Comanda.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah, about three years ago I brought my two sons
up and we we had to have a daywith Billy for sure.
And the kids still talk aboutit, not, not, not.
Not only the number of ofwalleyes that they caught, but
the fact that Billy, unlike lotsof us, he's running a little 2D

(17:50):
Humminbird 7-inch sonar andBilly puts it on the dead pine
tree in the big white rock andif you can see around that point
you're out too far and it's achain and anchor.
And my kids part of the reasonwhy I wanted to do that is is I
I wanted them to see I'm not areal tech guy myself and that's

(18:10):
a whole other podcast but um,they were, they.
It was not lost on them at youknow, nine and 11 years old, or
however they were a couple ofyears ago.
It was not lost on them thatthis guy had every fish in that
lake and river system by name ona string and if we weren't
catching them he would changecorners with the anchor and we
drift out into 32 instead of 28.

(18:33):
And bang, bang.
My kids still talk about.
I tell people that story allthe time.
Oh, yeah.
Wow, yeah, you want to talkabout a guy who knows the lay of
the land.
Guy was guiding when he waslike 14.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, yeah, and he's over 60 now.
Yeah, and a master at theanchor.
But, believe it or not, afterall of those years we went out
with Billy last, like three daysago or four days ago he never
dropped the anchor once, never.
Once he's changed his ways.

(19:06):
He drops the marker buoy stilluses the same sonar drops the
marker buoy, but he's on theengine back trolling by and this
and that I said holy shit,billy, what's going on?
He said.
I said, when did you start this, this, when did you start not
throwing the anchor?
He said, oh, last season.

(19:28):
Uh, you catch more, catch moredoing it with this way.
Uh, you can stay on the fishand take that to the bank yeah,
oh, for sure, for sure.
It's what I used to do before Ihad this rolling motor.
You know what I mean.
But, um mean, but for Billy todo that after so many years, it

(19:50):
was very, very surprising to methat he did that.
And then when he said you catchmore fish that way, I leaned
over and I said I know, billy,and you want to know the best
part, you don't have to pullthat 30 pound anchor up 20 times
in a day you know, I rememberthat too.

(20:11):
I remember that too oh yeah, soBilly's starting to, he's, he's,
uh, he's uh, growing as anangler, even at at 60 years old
now, like I, like, I mean youcatch more, but it's not quite
as easy as the angler to justdrop your line straight down,
because now you're playing withthe movement of the boat and you

(20:35):
still have to get that jig downto the bottom and keep it there
and keep it there, and that's atrick.
But you know what?
That's something that thatpeople learn fairly quickly.
And and that's where thosethree eighths ounce jig heads
come in handy.
Right, you get that little bitheavier jig head.
I went with quarters right,because usually I thought, billy

(20:58):
, we would be anchored and and,uh, I I'd be good with
quarter-ounce jig heads, butthey weren't quite enough.
So Billy set me up with the oldclassic 3-8s, like, I mean, we
used 3-8s for years.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yep, that's all I used up there.
On a windy day you might bumpit up to a half, but never
lighter, and it was all aboutremaining vertical and keeping
the guests.
I fished a lot of drop shots upthere too.
Same concept make sure they'restraight up and down.
And there's places out there,especially in the lake, where
that bottom's real bitey andsnaggy.
And as soon as you open thatline angle up beyond about 90,

(21:39):
you're looking for trouble.
And yeah, I know that there's agood lesson in that man.
If a guy like billy command haschanged in his game and staying
, staying up to speed, that's apretty good uh, pretty good
indicator.
That uh, um, you never know itall, do you?

Speaker 3 (21:54):
no, hell, no, not at all uh like.
I mean.
I I look forward to learningevery day.
I uh, I've uh being uh with theuh fish in Canada crew for for
quite a few years.
I finally broke down You're nota much of a uh, you said you're
not much of a uh technology guy, but I just put live scope on

(22:15):
my boat and uh, uh.
You know I'm struggling alittle bit with it, just in the
sense that um, uh, theorientation of the transducers
is giving me a little bit oftrouble, but I'm slowly figuring
it out and once I get it allfigured out we'll do a show on
it and it has its place.
But there are moral kind ofissues within certain

(22:42):
communities, like the muskiecommunity and everything else.
But as far as I'm concerned, Ilove the technology.
I really do.
It gives so much to talk about.
You're almost like a fishbiologist when you're out there,
because now you're not like thedifference between traditional

(23:02):
sonar and LiveScope orforward-facing sonar, live scope
, or forward facing sonar thetraditional.
You saw the fish, the livescope.
You see the fish and you seehow they react to your baits and
how they move and everythingelse.
And some people will findbigger fish like muskies, will

(23:23):
find bigger fish like muskiesand they just stay on them and
pound them to the point wherethe muskie will bite because
it's being pestered, to thepoint where it's just pissed off
or it gets irritated, or theyknow where the fish is and when
you throw 150 casts at that fish, sometimes they get snagged,

(23:48):
which is totally illegal.
But the way that I look at it,it's like a gun, right.
You can use that gun when youhave a gun for terrible,
terrible shit.
Or you can choose to use thattechnology for wonderful stuff

(24:09):
like hunting, which is ourheritage.
You know what I mean.
So I love the technology, butI'm not going to be, like old
O'Brien says, a laser and sniper, right.
So it's one of those thingswhere you just have to do use it

(24:36):
the way that it should be usedand go from there.
But that again, that's a topicfor another day.
I don't know.
I do know a little bit about,uh, a little bit about the
technology, but um, peter'salways the one that, um, that's,
that's running it and it'sdialed when I'm using it.
Now I'm the dialer and I'mstarting to learn.

(24:57):
Uh, I'm starting to learn thatit's not.
You know you do need to know alittle bit about it to to get it
set up properly.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
But you know you do need to know a little bit about
it to get it set up properly.
Most definitely, mostdefinitely.
You know, 12 years ago, when weall got on to side imaging, it
was the same type of thing.
You pull that transducer out ofpitch two degrees and instead
of being able to look out 110feet, you're looking out 40 feet
.
110 feet, you're looking out 40feet.

(25:28):
So there's there's absolutely atuning process and a uh
familiarity process to any anyof that technology.
There's no, there's no sonaranywhere in the world where
you're going to walk into xyzstore, hook it to the battery
and it's going to run perfectly.
There's a lot of tuning and anduh manipulation that you got to
go through to get it dialed in,not only uh for the depth of
water and what you're doing, butfor your, for your haul too.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
The difference in performance.
I'm in a ranger boat a newranger boat this last season and
the difference in performanceeven in a smooth glass haul
versus a riveted or welded haul.
The bubble trails.
The disturbance that creates isthere's a lot to it.
There's a lot to it.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, and nevermind the water quality and clarity
and density.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
We're just coming off the classic yellow snot pine
tree pollen around here and it'sunbelievable how what happens
with that pollen is it slicks upon the surface for seven or ten
days and then it begins to sink.
Yeah, and side imaging I, II've been running it for all my
casters at 60 feet because youcan't see much further beyond

(26:36):
that anyways.
Yeah, it just settles down intothe column and it's like trying
.
It's like trying to shine aflashlight through a chain link
fence versus a sleeping bag.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah, 100%.
Just imagine taking aflashlight in the dark and then
you're shining it through theair, that's nice and clear.
And then take a bag full offlour or talcum powder and blast
it with an air compressorthrough the air like it's like
fog.

(27:06):
Pat and I uh run into that.
Um last week, beginning of lastweek, when I first uh, I just
had put it on my boat and wewere up, uh, for musky opener
here and um, the side the sideimaging was awful and and I was
like oh my god, this garmin sideimaging.
And pat said and and I was likeoh my God, this Garmin side
imaging.
And Pat said no, no, no, he hadalready been up a couple of

(27:29):
days.
He said it's not that it's thewater, it's because I've been in
some, some bays where it'sclear and that's the pollen.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
And um, and you guys are absolutely right Um, so that
was one of the things we'velearned over the last couple
years is that this the pine treepollen usually coincides right
dead nuts with musky opener.
Yeah, it's when those trees letit all go and uh, um, uh, we we
do a lot of big pike fishing aswell, uh, late in june, and and

(28:00):
one of the things we've kind ofkeyed in on the last couple of
years is getting into I don'tknow that the fish like it.
I honestly don't.
Just as a fisherman would seekout current or bait fish or X, y
Z, we've been seeking out areaswhere we're finding that
cleaner water, where that pollenis not up and pushed through

(28:22):
and I think the fish prefer it.
To be quite honest, I wouldn'twant to be a fish that sucks
water through my gills and besucking all that crap through my
gills.
I don't know that they love it.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
It does break the light intensity because it does
help the ambush game, I'm sure,but I'm not sure that fish like
it yeah, I would tend to agreewith that um, because there's a
lot of it like I mean, someyears shit it gets blowing over
here.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
You can't see across the bay, you know yeah, it looks
like smoke coming out of thetrees.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Yeah yeah, yeah, for sure.
You want to keep your windowsclosed, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
But oh, yeah, yeah.
So for a guy like, for a guylike go ahead, go ahead.
No, I I go ahead.
Finish your thought and thenand then we'll move on.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
For a guy like me that, for a guy like me that
details ahead no, I, I go ahead,finish your thought and then,
and then we'll move on for a guylike me.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
That for a guy like me that details the inside of
his truck once every seven years.
Yeah, you want to keep thewindows closed because the
inside layers from black to yeah, looking like it was covered in
margarine there the other daywhen I ha, that's hilarious.

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Speaker 3 (31:13):
So you're over on Georgian Bay.
Yep, talk a little bit aboutthat fishery.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Well, like any guide you ask is going to tell you all
, mine's the best, it's worldclass, it's top shelf, it's
olympic level, it's gold medal,this is whatever.
But um, the the big, the bigthing that I'll say about here
is um, massive variety.
Um, routinely, the guests arebaffled by the fact that if

(31:44):
somebody stole, if my outboardbroke down and I had nothing but
my trolling motor and kicker tofish with, if you drew a 1.5
kilometer circle around my dockand took away my boat keys, I
could easily run a guide tripand you could catch five to
seven species of fish.
That's awesome.

(32:04):
Like the guys I had out thismorning, um, I made a comment to
them that they had never caughta lake trout, they'd never
fished for them.
I said it's gonna take melonger to drive to this spot,
jump on the front deck and dropthe trolling motor than it is
for you to catch your first one.
And, lo and behold, that'sexactly what happened.
And you know, uh, two bomb cast.

(32:27):
Distance from where we'rejigging lake trout and 65 feet
of water, there's a small mouthhump and where that small mouth
hump dumps off, to the west ofthat, there's lots and lots of
walleye at times and we've got50 inch muskies in this island
complex over the years and it'sjust like there really, really
something to be said for umhaving not not only options, but

(32:51):
they're all close by.
And the, the, I, I, I, like yousaid, off the top, the French
river and Nipissing 100%, owns apiece of my heart.
It is a special place, it is asacred place.
Um, my, my, my, main squeezeforever.
And the, the girl that I'mgoing to take to the dance every
saturday night's georgian bay.
It's what I was, it's what Igrew up fishing and yeah, and I

(33:12):
think that that's, that's.
That's one of the things thathas always stuck with me and it
certainly resonates with theguests is whatever you want to
target, um, I can have you on itreal fast, and as soon as you
want to switch gears, I'm goingto have you on plan B just as
fast.
Yeah, that's awesome.
It's a big.

(33:33):
It's a big imposing body ofwater and uh things like wind
giveth and taketh away andthere's, unlike places like I do
.
I do a lot of winter guiding onLake Simcoe for lake trout and
whitefish and, unlike Simcoe, alot of times there ain't nowhere

(33:56):
to hide.
Yeah, and around around here,and it's very similar on the
French, like the September hole.
Yeah, I can always.
I can always tuck you away.
I've always got a plan B, I'vealways got a plan C and um, uh,
uh, barring things likelightning, I'm going to be able
to get you on fish every day andmore than likely three to five
different species in a very,very short amount of time I love

(34:16):
that, that short amount of time, because even here on the
french, like I mean um, like ifyou want largemouth bass, you
got to drive a bit to get goodlargemouth bass fishing.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Like you got to run 25 minutes from from where I'm
at, which doesn't seem like awhole lot, but when you're
driving that's an hour an hourthere's an hour, right, yeah,
and let's, let's.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
let's also call a spade a spade steve, and last
time I checked, marine gradefuel for our outboards doesn't
grow on trees either.
It's not like buying a bottleof water, it's expensive.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Oh, for sure, For sure.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
So I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, yeah, that's really cool and you know I would
love to have that here.
It's massive water here andthere's lots of variety, but you
know you got to kind of travelbetween spot to spot to spot and
that is a cost, right, but itis what it is right.

(35:20):
The experience you get inbetween here is beautiful
landscape and history and that'swhere being a good guide comes
in and telling stories and stuff.
And speaking of telling stories, what was one of your more
memorable guide stories orthings that had happened to you

(35:45):
and that could be something thathappened to the guests,
something happened to youfishing related, not just
something they're all quitememorable.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Um, two to two.
I got two, two, two two daysago.
Um, I had a, a, a, two, twofellows out and they, they were
the same.
The lake trout fishing here ispretty hot and it's a good time
here to do it, and that's whatthey were here to do.
And uh, like we talked aboutoff the top that, that
excitement never goes away.
Yeah, every, every, every,every chase bite or every top

(36:18):
water slurp.
That's the first one I've everseen.
I, I, I can't help it right,and while living.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
We're out there.
You said living, thatexperience through the guest is
key and that resonated with methinking about being a guide.
Right, and that is an importantpiece of information, but,
sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
We were.
It was, you know, 7 am andwe're fishing in front of a
large actually it's not a largeisland, it's a very tiny.
It's a tiny island with a largecottage on it, and I didn't
know, I didn't know that thesefolks were sitting up on their
patio and the pine trees, 400yards from us, having their
coffee at 7 am.
I didn't see them or hear them.
And the first drop of themorning I'm in the back of the

(37:02):
boat with this fella and thelures going down on the screen
and here comes a big orangestreak just shooting off the
bottom and I, you know, I tellhim to quickly close the close,
the bail down and start reeling,take it away from him.
And it's his first time and andI'm just out of the corner of
my eye I just watched the rodtip just fold underneath the
boat and you know, he got him,got him like and and I can hear

(37:24):
these people like I scared theliving hell out of the guy
holding the rod.
He thought it was hilariousbecause I got so excited for him
and I'm sure these people onthe patio, 400 yards away on
this island, were like what isgoing on?
It sounds like a domesticdispute.
You know what I mean, and andand, uh, um, that was funny

(37:45):
because they were.
I'm a pretty laid back guy, I'mpretty chill and I'm a confident
fisherman too.
I know what's going to happen.
It's just I don't need to getall hyped up and excited.
And they really found itinteresting that that first fish
, that bit I was so excited andsent the shockwave out over the
water big time.

(38:06):
And there was another time.
I've done a couple of podcasts,never with a host as good
looking as Steve Niswicki.
I want to throw that in there,thank you, I've done a couple of
them and I tell this story.
I don't care if people haveheard this before.
It's such a good story Talkingabout guests and relationships
that I built through yourbusiness, through Chaudière
Lodge, the old Shub group.

(38:27):
The half of them were fromToronto and half were the
brother-in-laws and brothersfrom Miami, and Shub will be
here Tuesday, wednesday,thursday next week.
He got two 50-inchers here withme last year and the very first
time I met these folks wasduring a really hot prime July
season at Chaudière when it wason fire and they were out with

(38:48):
me every night for a week and Ithink the biggest we got was a
53.
We had four over 50, uh, ahandful of those 48 to 49
inchers.
We were getting two, two orthree big rips every night for a
week straight and I didn'trealize this.
But and this happens all thetime many of the many of the
boys in the boat were iphonevideoing the fights, yeah, and

(39:12):
so they'd be standing up in theon the deck of the boat while
I've got my.
It's in the dark, by the way,that's key.
Yeah, this is that 10 30 atnight.
Yeah, and you know the guyyou're reeling the fish in and
the clicker is still on.
We're trolling, whatever, Idon't need to turn it off, keep
it on, whatever.
And uh, we had caught a coupleof really big fish and, uh, it

(39:33):
was quiet that night.
We were up, up, up in andaround the, uh, the, the, the
lower end of the river, and, um,it's quiet and we're trolling
along, and, and we had justcaught one an hour or two before
, and one of the guys up in thefront of the boat was replaying
one of the videos on his phoneand the first thing that you
hear when you turn the video onis the guy reeling the fish in.

(39:57):
So you want to talk about seeinga fat guy?
Move fast, man.
This guy throws the video on.
It's dead quiet and Shub, tothis day gets like
hyperventilation, laughterturning purple every time we
bring that up.
And just just just theenvironment that it was in.
It was black as the ace ofspades, dead quiet and calm.

(40:21):
And we're sitting there, noone's saying anything.
We're just waiting to hear thatrip.
We've been hearing it all week.
And one comes through arecorded video on an iphone that
a guy's watching up in the bowand I just freak the hell out,
you're out of the driver's seat.
I jumped up.
Where is this rod?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And uh, everyone thought thatwas hilarious, that that, uh,

(40:45):
that, that that was a funnymemory.
But I have to tell you, everyday is a memory, man, and that
sounds cliche and played out,but that's, that is the God's
honest truth.
Every single day I'm out there,something happens, and that's a
good point.
You bring up is I've seen it amillion times, you've seen it a
million times, matt O'Brien seenit a million times, pat seen it
a million times.
But what you're doing is you'reexperiencing it for the first

(41:10):
time through their eyes.
Yeah, so everything is special,every time is special.
And uh, yeah, I have a.
I have a.
There's a gal in town here thatI know who, uh, bought a
bookstore about five years agoand, um, she's, I take her and
her, her and her littledaughters and her husband out

(41:30):
pretty routinely throughout thesummer and fall and she's been
after me for years.
She's like you need to write abook about all of these uh, uh,
experiences and funny momentsand characters.
And I could, I could fill abook just with some of the
characters, and I had a guy showup this spring and a pair of
chest waders to go trout fishing.
And I'm like dude, I know it'sgoing to rain today, but how

(41:51):
much rain do you think we'regetting?
Like chest waders, like itnever ends, it never ends, it
never ends.
They're all quite memorable,steve.
That's the gods on truth.
We'll hang up here today andI'll think of 25 of them from
the last month alone.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Yeah, do you ever write that one with the troll?

Speaker 1 (42:10):
that one with the trolling rip.
It's all here, buddy, yeah here, I don't you come with me.
You, I gotta do 10, I can, I can.
I can tell you the colors andthe baits and the lead lengths
that all of those fish werecaught on on Shub's trip eight
years ago.
It's all up here.
You remember all of it.

(42:31):
I've never been a logger.
I remember it intimately.
And a guy will come to me andsay, you know, I want to put
that black topwater back on andI was like no, you caught that
fish on silver and white, really, really.
Oh yeah, I remember.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
That's great to have a memory like that.
Like I mean, I um,unfortunately I don't.
I wish I had wrote down all ofthe uh, um, all of the
experiences that I had at thelodge.
It's funny when I talk toformer guides and and guests of
the lodge and and lodge andthrough conversation I remember

(43:10):
things right.
I remember, oh, I remember atime when you know but to recall
things like that it's anotherthing.
But I do recall you know when,when you were, when you started
um at Chaudière, um, being agreat guide was was key.

(43:32):
Being an amazing fisherman wasalso key, but as guides and as
as um, uh, being part of thelodge community over at
Chaudière, there was a lot morethat we did and I'll never I
remembered.

(43:53):
The thing that cemented my lovefor you was our first jam night.
And you come in and you playguitar and you started singing a
Merle Haggard song and I'm like, oh my God, this guy knows
Merle Haggard and some of thosejam nights and singing the old

(44:20):
country and you breathing somenew life, like I had maybe 10 or
12 songs that I knew reallywell and I would play those 10
or 12 songs and hope thateverybody was drunk enough when
I finished the last one thatwhen I started, when I started
the playlist over again, theywouldn't notice.
But you breathe.

(44:43):
You brought new life.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
You mark my words.
I'll bet you my children'slives on this.
There are songs I'll name abunch in a minute where it'll
pop on the radio and I don'tgive a damn who I'm in the truck
with or who I'm in Boston Pizzawith.
I'll be up Stevie Nidd's wikiset list, jamie Johnson In Color
, margaritaville, amarillo, byMorning.

(45:07):
The Gambler.
Go down the list.
Those songs and dozens more.
Those songs are forever.
Those aren't George Straitsongs.
Those aren't Gordon Lightfootsongs, the Wreck of the, edmund
Fitzgerald.
Those are Steve Niswicki'sShodier Lodge songs.
And my children, my youngest,finn, is, is 11 and he asked for

(45:29):
a guitar for Christmas.
And there's certain songs thatthat come up that he's picking
away on and he's getting good.
And I tell him Steven is wikisignature set list right there,
buddy, you got to learn that oneand that you're absolutely
right.
It goes so far.
It goes so far beyond uh,dropping a lure into a walleye's

(45:49):
mouth, the thing that I would.
I get asked reasonablyfrequently, three or four times
a year at least, by guys wantingto break in, and I tell them
two things.
Number one is you better, loveit.
Three things Number one is youbetter, love it.
Number two is take care of yourhands, because they take an
absolute shit beating as a guide.
And number three is everybodyknows where the fish are.

(46:15):
It's understand something.
If you're a waiter or a waitress, you're with the clients for a
maximum of half an hour.
If you're a fitness personaltrainer or a golf swing
instructor, you're with them foran hour.
If you're a fitness personaltrainer, you're with that, or a
golf swing instructor, you'rewith them for an hour booking.
If you are a yoga instructor ora tennis coach or a real estate

(46:36):
agent or a dietitian, you arewith these people.
We're with these people foreight plus hours straight.
They and in the case of lodgeguests know I might be spending
40 hours with these people.
And the thing that people haveto understand is the fish.
The fishing's a big part of it,but you got to keep the wheels

(46:57):
on the bus turning.
You don't want to have peoplefeel like they're ever not in
good hands.
You've got to make sure thatyou every lots of people have
different needs and expectations.
You have to be courteous andpunctual.
You have to be help, helpfuland be willing to help out and
go the extra mile and do thelittle things, and that all gets

(47:19):
appreciated, and that's the bigone.
Man is understand something.
You are spending a large chunkof consecutive uninterrupted
time with these people and youhave to make it enjoyable.
There's going to be places youstop where you only catch one or
you catch zero or you only getthree, and you got to be able to

(47:40):
keep the wheels on that busturning forward.
And the personality aspect ofit in, in my opinion, is every
bit is.
It goes the other way too.
If you're a great guy but yousuck at fishing, you're going to
struggle.
But if you've got a reasonablefoundation of what's going on
fishing wise and you can keepthese people engaged and
entertained and safe andattended to, I'll tell you what

(48:04):
man that goes a hell of.
That's never been lost on me.
That's a huge part of what I do.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Absolutely.
It's part of the experience,huge part.
You know you're building anexperience with these people,
absolutely.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
They're not going to remember.
Oh, jp switched us up to pinkand white 3-8 sounds at 2
o'clock when the wind kicked up.
Or JP put on a blackspinnerbait and we went into
Reynolds Bay or whatever.
They're going to remember that.
They're going to remember thatthe bugs were terrible out in
the main river, so we went outwhere we could get some wind and
get cooled off and there wereno bugs and we wanted to stop

(48:39):
and have a swim and let their.
Let our dog run around on shore, and that's what people
remember a hundred percent.
And they remember a good MerleHaggard song.
They remember a guy who canpick the guitar.
My singing sounds like somebodyhitting a baby with a cat, but
I can pick a little.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
I don't remember that Like.
I mean, I remember it was good.
I think you're undersellingthat.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
I appreciate that it's very limited.
You don't ask Gretzky to playgoal.
You got to know your lane right.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
You got to know your lane.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
I'm more of a backup singer.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Every good artist has that knowledge of where the
range is.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
I've only got a certain range as well.
You're Simon.
I'm Garfunkel buddy.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Exactly exactly.
That's the shit right there.
That's right.
No, those were great days backat Chaudière, but so listen.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
No, I still those Jan , that, those, those jam, do you
remember?
Um, I won't.
I won't lead us too far offtrack here, but do you?
remember the big uh, I've beentrying to think.
The big group, uh, toronto,they took the whole Island
September every year.
The big group, the old fellow,um, he was a financial guy.
Uh, kennedy group, no, notKennedy's.

(50:06):
It was the same concept, though.
No, no, not the Kennedy's.
These folks were from Toronto.
Um, I can't believe it.
It doesn't matter, but therewere.
They were so into jam nightthat we, we were out till 2 AM
for seven days.
They wanted it every night.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
I can't believe, I can't think of the name of the
group.
It'll come to me.
I'm sure Me neither.
And you know, as you said, thetotal experience and I talk to
people about those elements ofit all the time.
All the time I remember thatgroup because Jam Night
Wednesday, or we used to rockWednesdays pretty hard it was.
Jam Night every night and we hadto open up the set list and

(50:47):
keep and we needed freshmaterial because we were playing
from nine o'clock at night tilltwo in the morning for a week
straight and they loved it andwe were only too happy to to to,
you know, and it was alwayscool.
A lot of the, a lot of thepeople in these groups sing and
play too, and we would geteverybody going and it was just,
it was just fantastic.
It was fantastic.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
I had those guitars hanging on the wall there.
You know, I had my guitar, Ihad some upstairs.
I always had enough to goaround.

Speaker 5 (51:18):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
And the more people you get involved, the better,
the better it is.
You know, and, and those wereuh, those were that.
That, that was uh.
I always used to joke withpeople.
I used to, I used to tellpeople that I bought a fishing
lodge so I could, uh, I could,uh, I could get an audience.
You know and uh, and you're onan Island, so you got, yeah, I
remember that.
Oh yeah, yeah, no, for surethat's right.

(51:48):
Listen, I've got a question.
You've been guiding now for along time.
What are some of the changesthat you've seen over the years,
whether that be people, whetherit's fishing trends?
What are some of the thingsthat have been, have changed or

(52:09):
are changing?

Speaker 1 (52:11):
I think that, let's be honest, you and I are.
We don't sell aluminum soffitor snow tires or deodorant.
We sell fun.
Yeah, we sell discretionary.
If you, if you need to, if you,if you have a, if you have a
sore shoulder and you got to goto physio, that ain't a choice.
Your fit, your physiotherapisthas customers that don't have a

(52:35):
choice under.
Understand that we're in thebusiness of selling
discretionary candy, fun andfinancially we we are.
We are somewhat recession-proof, but there's always people who
have money to spend on fun.
One of the things I've seen,particularly since COVID, is

(52:58):
people book a lot less far out,whereas I would have people book
their trips for the summer, infebruary or november, I have a
lot more.
It's noticeable.
I have a lot more people thatcall me on tuesday and want to
come friday, or call me onsunday night and want to come

(53:19):
monday morning, type of thing.
It seems like there's a lotmore short term um trend wise.
I I have no interest in gettinginto this, but since you asked,
um, a lot of people not a lot,but a handful of the younger
crowd get on my boat and thefirst thing they ask me is
where's the live scope?
And uh, as you say, that's aseparate podcast, but a lot of

(53:44):
people are are are sucked intothis whirlwind of if you don't
have it, you got no shot and ittakes them about 45 seconds to
figure out that my 1990s, my, mystuff looks fancy, it's, it's
2d, sonar side imaging and mywaypoints and that's it.
Yeah, and my trolling motor andmy outboard and my kicker.
A lot of people, people havethat expectation.

(54:07):
I think a lot of people nowjust assume that having forward
facing sonar is like having lineon your reel or having a hook
on your crankbait.
It's not a, it's not somethingpeople think is optional.
A lot of people ask me aboutthat.
One of the one of the trends I'mseeing more and more as well
are multi-generations.
I have a lot of trips, onescoming up next week where it's

(54:32):
the grandfather and thegrandkids.
I seem to see a lot more, andit's a great thing.
I seem to see a lot more of thegenerational gap being bridged
with these guide trips.
You know I've got people thatthey've got a 10 year old
grandson or a 13 year oldgrandson.
I see a lot of that this year.
Um, where they're um, uh, the,the, the grandparents are, are

(54:55):
getting involved, not only justbooking and paying, but they're
coming with them and it'stypically in years past been a
little bit, a little bit more ofthe father, son, or the parents
, kids.
It it seems to me, like the,the, the older generation, maybe
maybe a little more cognizantthat kids these days need a
little bit more of what we do,and I, I see, I see grandparents

(55:17):
and older folks getting a lotmore of their hands on this, on
this gig, and taking the lead onit.
Um, that's great.
You know what people, peoplelet's.
Let's be honest.
I mean, the world is atumultuous place these days.
Um, uh, people are.
People are strugglingfinancially.
There's a lot of financial andpolitical uncertainty and strife

(55:40):
and controversy around theworld and I firmly believe that,
uh, what impact that may haveon what's in people's wallets.
More than gets made up for forthe fact that they're starting
to appreciate and value eighthours out in the waves going to
really spring up and people areseeing the value of it for their

(56:36):
kids.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
I agree, I agree wholeheartedly.
I mean it's almost therapeuticfor people to get out into
nature and and and give theseexperiences to the kids who are
like you say, let's face it,their experiences right now, the

(56:59):
majority of them are happeningvirtually you know what I mean
Like there's no, no, there's no.
Kids like when we were, when wewere kids, jumping on a bike
with a fishing rod and and goingdown to the, the local creek,
or playing in a ditch, lookingfor crayfish, or, you know,
being outside.

(57:20):
It's just, you know, and I evensee it with my kids, although
they're a little older, but youknow I have this place and when
we come here, basically they allknow that phones, phone, the
phones don't work very well,number one.
But you know, we play cards, weplay games, and it's that.

(57:48):
And being out in nature.
It is so important for kidsthese days to have those
experiences, even if they're notgetting it like we used to.
Like I mean, we used to have toget on our bike and drive
downtown or, in my case, driveto town on my bicycle if I

(58:09):
wanted to go buy a bag of chipsat Becker's.
You know what I mean Becker's,yeah, yeah, back in the day
Right.
So, and I I remember oldBecker's.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
The one in my hometown had a wooden floor.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it was, it was theywanted my hometown had a wooden
floor.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, yeah yeah, it was my home, glen Kleinberg,
ontario.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
Nice yeah.

Speaker 7 (58:36):
It had a wooden floor .

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Nothing like walking into a convenience store with a
wooden floor.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:44):
Yeah, and that wasn't so long ago, steve.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
I mean I turned 49 last week.
That wasn't so long ago, steve,I mean I turned 49 last week
that wasn't so long ago.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Well, happy birthday the?

Speaker 1 (58:51):
um the parents.
I appreciate that, buddy, thankyou.
Um the the parents, I think,see it a lot and um, it's hard
to reverse uh a whole trend insociety with young people with
an eight hour or a three day ortwo day fishing trip, but um, I
think what kids learn a lot whenthey come out is uh paying

(59:13):
attention yeah followinginstructions, being patient and
seeing, seeing it work.
And that's that little, thatlittle chain of command, that
little daisy chain of takingsomething, learning it,
modifying it if you need to,applying it.
That's a very powerful thingfor kids Because, unless you

(59:35):
want to sit on my lap and I holdthe rod between your knees,
like when my boys were babies,you kind of have to do it
yourself and I'm going toprovide the coaching and
guidance.
And I think that's a powerfulthing for kids is hey, man, I
can do this, I did do this, Idid do this, I got a 12 pounder.
I want to go get another one.
You know, it's a powerful thingfor kids the outdoors because

(59:56):
they get to see a whole new, awhole new thing that's new to
them and they wind up masteringit.
Yeah, yeah, and masteringsomething and having success at
something is is a powerful thingfor a young mind.
It's a confidence thing is Ican do it.
He showed me how to do it.
He told me this was going tohappen and I made it happen.

(01:00:32):
Yeah, fire right now, and it'sgoing to stay that way until
Thanksgiving is topwater.
You know the kid in the front ofthe boat invariably gets a
surface bait to lead the boatwith, gets invariably gets a
surface bait to lead the boatwith.
And I tell you what 25 fisharen't going to have to flush

(01:00:54):
that thing before that kid's anaddict.
The first fish that comes up andslurps that chopper or that
walk the dog or that bloop,bloop, stop top water.
Listen, guess, guess who's whenwe, when we, when I take it off
plane at the next show, guesswho's running up to the front of
the boat for that black topwater.
You know it becomes, it becomes,it becomes ingrained.

(01:01:15):
It becomes ingrained into themand they realize the connection
that they have with what they'redoing.
And I have to do it.
This isn't where I can hit abutton and reset or call one of
my buddies over to you know,know, fix it.
It's like JP put me in thefront of this boat and if I keep
casting where he says and don'ttake my eyes off that lure top

(01:01:35):
water is an addictive, magicalthing and I feature it in my
boat a lot with kids.
And it catches big ones.
Top waters are really, really,really overlooked.
And it catches big ones.
Topwaters are really, really,really overlooked.
Smallmouth pike, muskies, smallsome of the biggest fish I've
ever put my hands on have beentaken on surface baits and

(01:01:56):
there's nothing like it, and alot of them have been caught by
kids.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
Yeah, that's awesome, the best.
Wow, kids, anybody.
There's nothing like topwater.
It's my favorite way to fish byfar.
If, if, if a top water bite ison I, that is what I want to do,
regardless of species.
Yep, you know me too.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
It's so interactive you see the bite and it catches
everything yeah yep yeah, 100and as a guide, as a, as a, as a
fishing guide, it's your numberone best friend and here's why
it's the farthest casting lurein the box.
There's nothing that's going tooutcast uh, a zara spook or a

(01:02:40):
choppo or a top raider or apacemaker.
They can bomb it out there,real easy.
Number two it's never going toget hung up, it rides along the
surface, yep.
Number three is I can, want, Ican.
I can monitor their speed andaction and sound from the
console.
If the guy's running aspinnerbait and it's tangled, I

(01:03:02):
can't tell.
If he's got a ball of weeds thesize of a rugby ball on his
rattle bait, I can't tell.
I can absolutely work with thatperson from the console and dial
in their speed and theirtechnique and I can tell them
hear that sound, see that wake.
Now it's perfect as a guide, asurface bait as a, especially as
a bird dog in the front of theboat, like if they're, if

(01:03:24):
they're going to pass on thattop water, I've got a swim bait
coming in behind or a stop andgo jerk bait or whatever.
But that's the guide's bestfriend is a surface bait.
And as soon as that water tempand as soon as those conditions
get to where I like them.
I lead my boat with that onehell of a lot of the time,
certainly all summer and wellinto October too.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
So what are those temperatures you're looking for?
What are the temperatures orsigns?
When do you say okay, now's thetime.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
I was just telling there is yeah, there's yep,
there's two.
There's two things that I lookfor.
Uh, I was just.
I just had this conversationwith the one of the gentlemen
this morning.
Um, there are fits and startsduring the pike opener in early
may when you can get conditionsthat'll pop up where a very slow

(01:04:15):
walk, the dog style bait canget bit.
But by and large and this iswhat this is the rule that I go
by I'm not saying it's right,it's just what I experience as
soon as I get to a point in theseason and it's right around now
where every single time I getto the dock and fire up my fish
finders when that temperaturestarts with a 7 every morning

(01:04:39):
instead of a 6, when I've got70.2 or 71.4 or 70, blah, blah,
blah, as soon as I'm out ofthose 60s for good.
That is key number one.
And where it really starts toshine and take off for me is
when I start visiting some ofthese cabbage patches and weed

(01:05:00):
complexes, when I start seeingthose pokers, those buds
breaking the surface and comingout the water.
As soon as I see cabbagevisually above the surface, game
on.
Those are the two cues I lookfor One's a temperature thing
and closely related to that is aweed quality thing, and when
you start to see those little,we call them toppers or pokers

(01:05:22):
as soon as you see that littlecabbage.
But it looks like the tip of anasparagus.
It's exactly what it looks like.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
A miniature version Soon, as I start seeing that on
some of these grass, grass bedsthat I fish, never, never, never
mind being a viable option,it's I lead the boat with it.
The front, the front hole, thenumber one hole is getting the
top water.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
The the one man's getting the top water a lot of
the time yeah, yeah, that's,that's that's generally what I
what I look for and grass bedsand and I'm assuming that you
also use- we apply that on ondeep pumps too we, yeah, we.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
We find a number of fish that'll come out of really
deep water for them,surprisingly deep.
We get a lot of giant, 40 inchplus class pike every year that
are eating top waters as they'reworking their way back to the
boat over 45 plus feet of water.
Um, they have a the theory.
The theory that I have is that,um, it's a caloric thing.

(01:06:21):
It's a calorie thing If you're70 degree water at the end of
June and you're a muskie or apike, you've done your spawn,
you're banged up, you're in abad mood.
Number one thing for you isputting the pounds back on
getting a full belly, gettingback in shape, feeling good, and
you've got two options.

(01:06:42):
Number one is you can chasearound 85 perch or shiners or
small gobies or whatever.
Or and this is another thirdthing that makes topwater timing
important you can go up andgrab a duckling or a baby
merganser or a small gosling andyou're full for two weeks.
Yeah, and I would add that Ishould have rewinded that.

(01:07:04):
I'll add that as a third, as athird issue, and a third thing I
look for with top water andthey're all connected, they're
not separate 70 degree water,cabbage toppers and guess what
that's when the ducklings hatchtoo.
Yeah, and when you're looking ata fish, understand something
too.
There's a really good muskyauthor and fisherman, dick
Pearson, an old school guy.

(01:07:25):
And Dick Pearson has a really,really, really big reputation on
focusing on edges, and theultimate edge, if you're a fish,
is the surface.
Think about it.
You see, during the course ofyour life, everything lives at
eye level.
You've seen a million suckers.
You've seen a at eye level.
You've seen a million suckers.
You've seen a million crayfish.
You've seen a million leeches.

(01:07:45):
You swim around your home rangeevery day.
You see a little schools ofbass and panfish and perch.
It's all down at your level.
But all of a sudden there'ssomething overhead that is
looking like it's trying to swimand doing a shit job of it.
It's flailing away and kickingwater and splat around.
That's an opportunity that fishdon't see 3 000 times a day,

(01:08:11):
and the response that you get toa top water bait a lot of the
time is you're dead.
It's.

Speaker 7 (01:08:18):
It's a new opportunity it's like the bully
on the block.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
That's, that's, that's, that's like the bully on
the block, that's the new kidon the block.
It's opportunistic, right.
That thing's not going anywhere.
It's flopping around on thesurface, it's making all kinds
of commotion and where's itgoing to go?
It's on top.
It's not going to swim away.
It's not going to dart under arock.
It's not going to swim into thecabbage.
It's not going to dart under arock.
It's not going to swim into thecabbage.
It's right there and very oftenthey track it.

(01:08:44):
They'll follow it right to theboat and hit it, or they'll push
awaken behind it.
They know it's not goinganywhere and it's you're getting
I guess what I'm saying is,with topwater, you're getting a
very, very visceral, nasty,classic predator type of
response.
I am killing you, and I knowthat you've got a lot of big

(01:09:05):
calories, because you'resomething that I don't see every
day.
You're moving slow and you'regetting it.
Yeah.
And there's nothing like seeingthat.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
And big fish eat big fish eat man so good.
I remember over at Casablanca,the former owner, brian Parker,
and that's the lodge that's justover towards Doquese.
I was over there and he told mea story about the biggest muskie
he had ever seen and it waswhile he was having his morning

(01:09:38):
coffee.
And he said this muskie comeout of the water.
He said, and it was quite adistance from where he was
having his coffee, he knew tothe exact spot where he saw this
event.
And what happened was a muskieand he said he saw its head,

(01:09:58):
with its jaws wide open, chasinga loon, a full-grown loon, and
loons need a little bit of spaceto get off the water, like they
don't just jump out of thewater.
And Brian said this muskiechased this loon and nearly got
it.
He said it didn't get the loon,it was full grown.

(01:10:21):
But he said the wake and thesplashing and physically seeing
this muskie's head out of thewater as it was swimming,
chasing this loon, and the loonwas just making noise like it
was going to die.
But I'll never forget thatstory because for a fish to

(01:10:42):
chase a full-sized loon, that'sa big fish.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
I'll give you a quick one on that same note too is
where I keep my boat on the dock.
Here we're in a really nicesheltered, sandy, cabbage-filled
bay and it's a haven for puddleducks, fish ducks, herons, and
we had a group of baby geeseborn here five or six years ago

(01:11:10):
that we called them the Lucky 13.
There was mom and dad and therewas 13 little fuzz balls
swimming around everywhere theywould go.
Just outside our base there's areally good big fish reef and I
happened to be in there with aguest right exactly the same
time of year July 4th, late Juneand he caught a really nice

(01:11:31):
fish, a 40 or 41 incher.
And, as a lot of muskiefishermen and pike fishermen do,
this will sound gross to peoplethat aren't accustomed to it,
but any time a fish, we call itthe mustard.
Anytime a fish poops all overyour bump board or all over your
carpet, you take a look at itright.
If they're eating perch, thatthing's mustard colored.

(01:11:53):
If they're eating suckers andciscos, it looks like silver
toothpaste.
This one took a dump all overmy boat and it was full of
feathers and we got back to thedock and finished our trip and
life went on, and the next, thenext, the next morning I was
down there and the lucky 13 wasno longer 500 yards away.

(01:12:14):
I guess they ventured out toofar, or that fish came in and it
was the unlucky 12.
And that fish was caught on atop water bait too, by the way.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
Wow there by the way.
Wow, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
So there you go they'll eat 100 they'll eat them
yes, they do.

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
Uh, any last thoughts jp take your kids fishing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Um, it's, it's.
It's got nothing to do with meneeding to pad my wallet and
book more trips.
Lord knows, look at my hair.
I haven't had a haircut sinceJanuary.
Um, it's got nothing to do withme saying book, book a trip
with JP or any of the otherwonderful guides that we have in
this part of the world.
Uh, get your kids.
This sounds cliche and it's,it's, it's as, as a father, and

(01:12:59):
you know this too, steve, getyour kids out there.
It's a lot easier to do than youthink.
When you're in the hands of, Iguess, an expert or someone with
a lot of experience, it's goingto go a lot smoother and be a
lot more productive than youmight think.
You don't know, you don't haveto know anything.

(01:13:20):
In many ways, you being anunmolded lump of clay or a blank
canvas, is actually reallyhelpful, because you don't have
any preconceived bad habits orthings.
If you don't know anything,we've got all the equipment.
We've got all the gear.
We've got all the know-how.
All you got to do is show up,involve your family if you can,

(01:13:40):
involve your family if you can.
That would be my thought as afather and as a guy who makes
their living in this wonderfulbusiness.
Share it, share it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
Great thought.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Respect it, share it and respect it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Yeah, that's a wonderful thought, and I'm so
glad that I asked you for it,because-.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
The bottom line is is that there's nowhere on earth
where there are fewer fishermenthan there was five years ago,
and five years from now there'sgoing to be five times more than
there is today, and I would, Iwould, maybe, I would maybe
close and add with is therespect it?
I would maybe close and addwith is the respect it.

(01:14:25):
You can do so much good forthis fishery by participating in
it responsibly.
People ask me every day youmust eat fish every day.
It's like if they bannedkeeping fish for the rest of my
life, I'd be like, yes, don'thave to ever clean.
Another one.
I'm going to Boston Pizza ifI'm hungry.
Respect it, respect it, learn.
Other one I'm going to bostonpizza if I'm hungry, like you
know, respect it, respect it,learn.
There's.
There's a number of greatresources everywhere where you

(01:14:49):
can learn about the proper netsand keeping the fish wet and
upright and comfortable, and howto remove a hook or choose not
to remove a hook.
There's lots of resources outthere for you to, for you to
take.
Take your own personal stake init.
Make, make that.
Make that 46 inch muskie yourfish.
You are personally responsiblefrom the second you put it in

(01:15:12):
the net for the survival of notonly that fish but it's babies,
and put as much time, care andpassion into handling them nice
as you did into driving up thereand catching one.
It's on us, it's on us.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
That's fantastic yeah .

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
The Ontario government or the Canadian
government is not going to havethe same impact that you and me
and all of our fishing friendsare going to have.
And the second that fish is inthe net.
It's on you.
Take the responsibility, takethe pride in it and handle that
resource.
Pay it back with the gentlenessand respect.

(01:15:49):
Pay it back with that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:53):
Well, that is so well said, jp, thank you for that,
and folks, that is such greatadvice.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
You give me an opening, I'll talk the wheels
off a Greyhound bus buddy.
Um and and folks, that is thatthat is such great advice.
Uh, you give me an opening,I'll talk the wheels off a
Greyhound bus buddy, just let me, just put a quarter in me and
wind me up for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
No, it's true, that's why you're perfect for a
podcast.
Well, listen, buddy.
Thank you so much for thisopportunity and, um uh, I'm sure
it won't be the last one.
I was really excited to talk toyou and get this kind of book
through, matt.

(01:16:34):
Thanks there, Mr O'Brien, youcome through again.
And those words of wisdom arewords that that, yeah, yeah,
yeah, he's a lot of people'sagent that guy?

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Yeah, he's a solutions provider.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Just ask him, and his websitetoo.
No, he's great, he is asolution provider.
But those words that you said,I want everybody to take those
to heart, because our resourceis fragile.
Even though we've got morelakes and rivers in this country

(01:17:16):
than anywhere else in the world, and our province is one of the
it's a landmass that has morefresh water than most places in
the world.
Um, when, when you don'trespect our resource, um, you
can, you can definitely dodamage to it and um, uh, safe

(01:17:40):
handling of big fish is key andthank you for bringing that up.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
I'm going to say one more thing, and it's in the same
line, and then I'll shut my yap.
Listen, there's such a thing asloving something to death, and
what I want people to understandis all of that passion and
research and effort that you putinto buying lures and boats and
live scopes and braided lineand premium treble hooks.

(01:18:08):
I want you to put the sameamount of effort and forethought
into what you're going to doafter you catch one.
Handle them right, don't takemore than you need, and teach
your kids that level of respecttoo.
Man.
Teach it to your kids, nevermind teaching your kids how to
catch them and how to cast.
Help them understand thatyou've got a mummy and so does
that fish, and that fish is amummy to other fish and she's

(01:18:30):
going to be a mummy to otherfish next spring and the spring
after that.
You can love it to death.
Man, you got to remember togive back.

Speaker 3 (01:18:37):
Excellent and, on that note, thank you folks for
listening to this point.
I really appreciate it.
Like, subscribe, leave comments, do all those wonderful things.
You know how to get a hold ofme at steven, at fishincanadacom
and JP.
You can get JP at Bushy AngleGuided Fishing.

(01:18:58):
Google it at Bushy Angle GuidedFishing.
Google it and have yourself awonderful experience with him.
Bring your kids, go on your own, take your wife.
If you have not experiencedGeorgian Bay with a totally

(01:19:20):
awesome professional guide likeJP, it is something that should
be on your bucket list,especially for all you folks in
the GTA.
It's not far Like.
I mean, you're less than twohours to get to JP and he'll
look after you.
He'll look after you.

(01:19:41):
So thanks again, folks, forlistening and head on over to
fishingcanadacom and get in onthose giveaways.
Just put them, ballots, inthose boxes One all as many as
you can get, because there issome really cool stuff that you
can win.
And also, like I say, like,subscribe.

(01:20:05):
Thank you to Anthony Mancini,our producer.
He is a magician when it comesto all of this stuff, bringing
you a high-quality product thatmakes me sound wonderful.
You know I like that.
That's why I love Anthony.
He always makes me sound good.
And thanks again to LakesideMarine.
They are a fantastic businessand if you need any kind of

(01:20:32):
equipment up in the north, giveLakeside Marine a call.
Andrew will set you up.
And hey, nixon, I haven'twished you good night lately,
buddy, but good night, nixon.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Sleep well, brother Thus brings us to the conclusion
of another episode of Diariesof a Lodge Owner Stories of the
North.
I'm a good old boy, nevermeanin' no harm.
I'll be the all you ever sawbeen railin' in the hog since

(01:21:09):
the day I was born, bendin' myrock stretchin' my line.
Someday I might own a lodge,and that'd be fine.
Someday I might own a lodge,and that'd be fine.
I'll be making my way the onlyway I know how, working hard and

(01:21:36):
sharing the north with all ofmy pals.
Well, I'm a good old boy.
I bought a lodge and lived mydream, and now I'm here talking
about how life can be as good asit seems.

Speaker 5 (01:21:51):
Yeah, Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's Favorite
Fishing Show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right.
Every Thursday, ange and I willbe right here in your ears
bringing you a brand new episodeof Outdoor Journal Radio.

(01:22:11):
Now, what are we going to talkabout for two hours every week?
Well, you know, there's goingto be a lot of fishing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.

Speaker 5 (01:22:22):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors, from athletes, All theother guys would go golfing Me
and Garton Turk and all theRussians would go fishing.
To scientists.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
But now that we're reforesting and letting things
breathe.

Speaker 6 (01:22:38):
it's the perfect transmission environment for
life To chefs, if any game isn'tcooked properly, marinated, you
will taste it.

Speaker 5 (01:22:48):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts Apple Podcasts orwherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 7 (01:23:05):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.

(01:23:26):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal use by
Indigenous peoples all over theglobe.

(01:23:52):
After nearly a decade of harvestuse, testimonials and research,
my skepticism has faded toobsession and I now spend my
life dedicated to improving thelives of others through natural
means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm

(01:24:13):
going to take you along with meto see the places and meet the
people.
That will help you find youroutdoor passion and help you
live a life close to nature andunder the canopy.
Find Under the Canopy now onSpotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.