Episode 81: The Bait Man

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
so when me and damon started the bear hunt it was
like, hey, we're not gonna holdback anything like we're.
We're gonna do it exactly howwe would want it if we were
paying what these guys arepaying.
And now we have a group of guysthat, like they appreciate it
and like, like last year wekilled two bears over 400 pounds
um two Boone and Crockett's.
One was probably the biggestbear, to be honest, killed in

(00:27):
Ontario last year.
The best part of the wholeseason.
People always think, oh, itmust have been that big bear.
But the best part was beforethat guy shot the bear.
He's been on what did he say?
32 bear hunts or somethingacross Canada, this fella.
And he texted me this is thenicest tree stand I've ever been
in and it's not even close.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
This week on the Outdoor Journal Radio podcast
Networks Diaries of a LodgeOwner Stories of the North.
Today, willie and I are excitedto have on an outstanding young
entrepreneur who has foundsuccess in the bush of Northern
Ontario and now it is ourpleasure to introduce to all of

(01:11):
you Kyle Satchery.
On this show we talk about themany businesses he has on the go
, from outfitting and guiding toa live bait business and a
barbershop.
Yes, this guy does it all.
So if you love great successstories and interesting people

(01:33):
from all walks of life, this isanother great one.
Here's our conversation withKyle Zachary With Kyle Zachary.
Well, folks, here's anotherepisode of Diaries of a Lodge
Owner, and Willie and I are sohappy to be sitting down with

(01:54):
Kyle Zachary, and Kyle is a veryinteresting feller from the
north.
He is a bait man, he's a barberand a guide.

(02:18):
So, willie, why don't you bringus a little bit into this
episode with Kyle?

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Sounds good, buddy, sounds good.
Welcome with Kyle Sounds good,buddy, sounds good.
Welcome Diaries family.
To another episode.
Kyle, we're happy to have youhere today.
Thank you for hopping on herelast minute and I think you're a
great attribute to our showhere today.
You got some awesome stories.
You know a background that'sdefinitely unique A tournament

(02:43):
angler, a guide, a bait man anda barber.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I don't know too many of them out there.
No, no, I don't think there'svery many barbers that are doing
kind of the other stuff thatI'm doing.
Well, the look behind you onyour wall.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
There you got about 200 taxidermied animals and fish
and you got one of the sexiesthaircuts that ever been on this
show, buddy.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
So oh yeah, you're looking good so far.
That's not me.
I can't take credit for that.
That's j mac and dryden.
He's my barber.
I'd love to say it was my owndoing, but that's all on him
awesome.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
Well, welcome buddy.
I uh, I haven't seen.
You know, I haven't seen you ina while here yeah, I haven't
seen you since.
Tournament Fish there.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, I guess Red Lake was the last time we saw
each other.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Nice.
Yeah, we see each other a lotmore in the school.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you got started in the north
, how old you are.
You're a young man and you'redoing all of this stuff up there
Kind of quickly.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
walk us through how it all started.
Well, it's kind of like, Iguess, a little complicated, but
when I got out of high school,I was guiding full-time.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
Where'd you grow up, Kyle?

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Pardon, where'd you grow up?
I grew up in Dryden.
We had a bait shop in Drydenand my old man worked in the
mill there.
So I grew up in Dryden and thenhelped my old man with the bait
shop, like I said, and thenwhen I graduated I started
guiding because I wanted to kindof get out on my own.
I was getting to that age where, you know, testosterone wasn't
working out working with the oldman sometimes.

(04:20):
So it was time to get out on myown and I don't think he was too
happy about losing hisassistant manager, so to speak.
But I got out guiding and Imean to be honest, I was making
like no money basically Backthen.
I think my first guiding jobwas 70 bucks a day and I thought
I was rich.
Yeah, I don't know what youoffered me last year, willie,

(04:43):
but I know 17-year-old me waslike are you saying no to that?
Like what's wrong with you?
and uh, because I remember whenI started for 70 bucks and I
remember like my dad looking atme like man, I pay you good, why
are you leaving?
And I'm like I get to gofishing every day and and I
thought it was like said, Ithought I was rich doing 14 hour

(05:04):
days for $70.
And and things have changed,but you were rich yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
I was rich.
I was rich, I was a lot ofwallah.
I mean, yeah, the feeling thatyou got by doing that job and at
that point in your life, like Imean, let's just explore that.
Take me back to when you wereguiding in that very first year
and tell me what each day feltlike for you.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
You know, it was kind of like I guess a dream come
true.
I didn't.
I had always dreamed of likethat's how I wanted to make a
living.
Right Was out and I alwaysassumed at that time that it
would be fishing.
We always had the bait business, kind of like.
My dad had it, my uncle was atrapper, but I always assumed
like I would make my livingfishing and hunting and guiding.

(05:51):
So when I got the opportunity Ijumped at it and that was with
Cat Island Lodge, farron Buckler, and so much respect for them.
They gave me an opportunitythat I don't know if I would
have gotten.
Yeah, so much respect for them.
They gave me an opportunitythat, uh, I don't know if I
would have gotten.
Um, and back then there wasn'tjust jobs like there is now,

(06:13):
like I mean, it's only 15 yearsago or whatever, but it it was.
You know that was the onlyguide posting I seen, and so I
jumped at it and and I spent thenext uh, I think it was three
seasons up there.
Um, wow, yeah, and, and so Ikind of went through the
progressions of I started at 70,but thankfully I was pretty
good at guiding because I lovedit, and Farron's wife, I think,

(06:35):
really liked me.
So every time I left I seemedto get a raise.
So I kept coming back and I'mnot saying by the end.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Well, that already wants to fire you because his
wife likes you.
That's one of the.
I was starting to worry.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, cause I'd come in and he'd look at the paycheck
and he'd go, hey, what the heck?
This is 10 bucks a day morethan we agreed to.
And I said, hey, your wifesigned it.
I don't know, I just I don'tknow.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah Well, hey, listen, it was a very smart
business move on her partbecause you kept coming back for
three years.
You know it's tough for lodgeowners to retain guides that are
young and obviously at thatpoint you didn't know whether
you were going to go to schoolor what kind of a decision

(07:20):
you're going to make.
So it's really good to be ableto retain a guide, a young guide
, for two, three years.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
So yeah, Did you, did you hunt up there too, guide,
or did you just strictly startfish guiding?

Speaker 1 (07:34):
I started just fishing guiding.
Um.
We had our own deer hunt at thetime, uh, that we still run Um.
So I would do that in the fallswhen I'd get back.
Um, usually I would try andwork a little bit of
construction kind of in the fall, just so I could get on
unemployment for the winter, andthen I'd run my old man's deer

(07:55):
hunt and that would be kind ofthe end of my fall.
And then I started doing somemoose guiding with him too,
towards kind of the end of myguiding.
But uh, by then I kind of knewthe writing was on the wall that
I was uh leaning towardsgetting out of it and and uh
getting into doing stuff formyself.
I never.
I think I was like eight yearsold.
My grandpa, who has all the hadat the time all the petrol cans

(08:18):
in the area uh, I think I waseight he looked at me.
I was like you're never goingto be a good employee.
You got to work for yourself.
And uh, which I thought he told, like I thought growing up he
had told all of our like all thecousins and grandkids that.
And then, talking about it, nowmy one cousin's like no, he
told me to get in the oil fieldsCause I was too dumb to run my
own business.

Speaker 6 (08:40):
I thank my grandpa a lot I like that guy.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Get to the oil fields .

Speaker 1 (08:46):
If you're silly fucker, yeah, exactly, and my
cousin's done very well in theoil field, so we're the only two
that listen to him and itseemed to pull out pretty well
for us.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Nice, nice, hey, I got a question for you and this
brings us back to I kind of gota story and a question.
So, oh, kyle, this would havebeen like 2012, 2011.
And I used to go and fish theDryden Walleye Masters, yeah,
down there.
This was like when Gussie waslike, just, he was like the hot
thing on the Lund Trail.

(09:19):
He just got picked up by DrPepper I was in the Dr Pepper
group and Kruger Farms, yeah, uppicked up by dr pepper and the
dr and kruger farms, and yeah,and I, uh, so I came down and I
stayed at um pat's place over invermilion bay there on eagle
lake and I took my family thereand then, uh, I would go out and
tournament, fit free fish kindof thing, get ready for this

(09:40):
tournament.
It's 20 minute, 30 minute driveevery day and, um, so I get back
the last day of pre-fish and mypartner was supposed to come
over from winnipeg greg hagg washis name and greg ended up
bailing.
Uh, he had something lastminute come up, so I was kind of
scrambling for a partner and soI went into town and I was like

(10:04):
, what you know, this is theonly shot I got is to try and
find somebody local.
So I went into town.
I stopped at that petrol whereyou were talking about, the one
that's not there anymore andthat little bait shop attached.
What was the bait shop called?

Speaker 1 (10:17):
it was kna, sport and tackle.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
So that was my old man's shop okay, so so did he
own it right until it gotbulldozed down, or did he sell
it to somebody?
Because I went in there and Istopped and they ended up
hooking me up with a guy namedcody and he was a guide for pat
out in vermilion bay.
He was a young guy, he was likemaybe 1920.

(10:40):
He might even be your cousinyeah, I don't like we sold.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
It would have been, I think, 2010, 2011 there, so it
probably would have been the newowner it was right after then
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, my old man was stillin there for a little bit
helping out, but I can'tremember the exact timeframe.
I know like I graduated fromhigh school in 2010 and went
away to college that fall and Ithink it was that winter my old

(11:07):
man sold it.
So it would have been like 2010, 2011 that he sold it.
They just well, all of us wereout of the house and my mom's an
accountant and there had been afew hard years where, you know,
it rained all summer and youjust don't sell bait and tackle.
If it's raining, canadians justdon't go.
Don't sell bait and tackle.
If it's raining, canadians justdon't go.
Americans still do, but at thattime we hadn't really dived

(11:29):
into the bait business as muchas we did towards the end.
So my mom was on my dad's rearend to get out of it while we
were kind of doing.
Well, you know, the accountantside of her didn't forget the
two bad years where me and mydad were like hey, we're giving
her Let us go, let us run withthis, and she's kind of put the

(11:51):
kibosh to that.
And so they sold it in 2010,2011.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
So probably would have been the new owners.
Okay, I can't even.
Well, this young man, this CodyI here's a story for you.
So we, we, he says yes to meand he was jackeded right up
because he's just a kid, right,and I was like I don't know, I
was a middle of the pack guy butyou know, I had a nice rig and
I was kind of it was kind of upand coming a little bit.

(12:13):
I guess in my own stage, youknow, I could compete yeah so.
But I needed a good second rodand a net man is basically what
I needed, right.
So we ended up going out.
First day came back in, I thinkwe had like an average weight,
like we had like 12 pounds, 12and a half.
So we were, you know, runninglike 30th, 35th and so I thought
that was really good.
You know, I was pretty jackedup about it because I was still

(12:34):
close to you know I could bustthe top 10 at least right and
get some money back.
So the second day we, uh, wehead out and we go all the way
down to, all the way down tobutler and I pull up on this
hump and I drop my jig and spoondown and I didn't even get it
to bottom.
I look to my right and herecomes scotty dingwall and his

(12:54):
ranger falls up beside me on theother side, right, scotty and
jay, so I'm fishing away andfishing away and I get one boom,
pull it in.
It's like a 20 incher.
I look over and dingwall's gota 31 on the board.
Sounds like you got me shit medingwall, all right.
So, stevie, if you don't know,but scotty dingwall is a big,

(13:15):
he's a stick up in this area.
They own the local forddealerships in northwestern
ontario yeah, we stay.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Oh yeah, his younger brother stays with us when we
stay at willie's in the summer,for the year falls tournament on
Laxool.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
Yeah, we all tournament fish a couple of
tournaments together up here,but anyway.
So you know, I was kind ofpissed off right, I'm like I'm
out of here.
So I took off right and blewback down the lake and I get
into Trap and Mile and we hit acouple of nice ones another 22,
a 23.
I had a 17.
And I we hit a couple of niceones, another 22, a 23,.

(13:46):
I had a 17.
And I'm like shit, we need a,we need a hog.
And it was getting like twoo'clock.
So we were kind of pulled theBabe Ruth swing right and I went
back out to the big lake deepmiddle of the afternoon and
thinking, okay, well, maybe I'llget something on the deep edge,
crawling up and down and, uh,second pitch out, I had a little
bucktail jig, little blackmarabou, bun boom drilled one.
It was like I'm guessing fromwhat I remember I think it was

(14:09):
like 29 and a quarter, 29 and ahalf, but it would have put me
up in a good way.
So we had like 15 minutes back.
So we weighed them, put weightson the fish on the fins and
blast in, and we were so jackedup because it was like for one I
would have probably busted intothe top 10.
Well, for sure I would have.
And for two, and it was like ayou know, cancellation on a

(14:30):
partner and I had this kidfishing with me.
So it was like this is a greatstory for myself.
Yeah, we're doing good, right.
So we pull up to the docks, youknow, and everyone pulls into
the slot and somebody comes downand sticks their hand on your
live, well, and make sure yourfishes are good and make sure

(14:51):
that no one's dead and floating,and okay.
So they give us a tag and weput all our fish in the in the
bag and I said, well, you go upand wait, cody, and all we've
done here at the boat, right.
So the kid was, he was pumpedright because he's going on
stage now.
So the kid gets up there and hegoes in the arena.
So I pull around I'm actuallysitting beside gustafson and
we're just bullshitting and thenit was like five seconds and
the kid turns around and hecomes back and he starts walking

(15:13):
down and he's got a pink slipand I'm like, oh, I'm like what
happened?
Like they just kept, they justchecked our fish how to?
A pink slip means you'redisqualified, yeah.
So I'm thinking like why,what's going on here?
So he gets down to the dock andthe kid this cody kid is in
tears and I'm like bud, what'sgoing on?
What happened?
Did one of the fish die on theway up?

(15:34):
And he's like no, we had toomany fish.
And I'm like what do you mean?
We had too many fish.
I'm like we just put that hogin the tank.
And he's like I didn't throwone out, willie.
And I'm like fuck, that's noton you, kid, that's on me.

(15:56):
I'm like that's totally on thisguy.
I was so pumped up that we weregoing to end the day at least
in some money.
I didn't even think, because Inormally would have my partner
there, right.
Or a guy who was in a tournamentbefore I never thought about it
and the young kid didn't throwout that little 17 we had and
yeah, so I got.
It was the only tournament Iever got DQ'd in and I felt so

(16:18):
shitty for that kid man.
I was like and it wascompletely my fault, right, it
had nothing to do with anyoneelse, it's funny you mention it
because, especially with thattournament, what people probably
listening don't realize?

Speaker 1 (16:30):
on Wabagoon, the water is so muddy that guys will
run into clear lakes off ofWabagoon just to fill their live
.
Well, so you can see your fish.
And I know your story hashappened a lot of times where
guys are coming down the riverto weigh in and they start
counting fish and they go, hey,we got one extra.
Or like my older brother oneyear, they came in and they're
looking and he's going there'sonly three fish in here and his

(16:51):
partner goes it's a four fishweigh-in, right.
His partner goes, no, no,there's four.
And he goes, no, there's three.
Like I'm telling you there'sthree fish, but you, you just
the water's so muddy that you,you don't know, right.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Really the clarity Steve is like inches the water
in your live well is so muddythat you can't see in the live
well.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
If you put your hand in the water straight down like
this, you're going to maybe seeit here, maybe.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
No way.
So you've got an inch ofclarity.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, they call it the big mud for a reason, right,
I know.
One year we were staying on thelake.
So my brother and his partner,of course, the Friday before the
tournament we're going to havea fish fry.
So we have a big crappie andwalleye fry.
And the next morning they go toget checked in, right.
So they open up everything.
Well, they open up the live,well, and there's a crappie

(17:40):
swimming around.
So people are like what's goingon?
And of course they call thetournament director over and he
jumps in the boat.
He's like well, they're nottrying to cheat, it's a crappie
like.
And my brother's like yeah wehad a fish fry last night.
Obviously we missed it.
You know we left the boat inthe water.
The crappie is still alive.
They released it at governmentdock the morning of the takeoff.

(18:01):
I don't know if there'slegalities to that, but it swam
away fine.
But they had no clue it was inthere.
He's like we put our minnows inthere and I had no idea this
crappie was swimming around,because it was just so muddy big
live well, right, and he goes.
Thank God when they opened it upthat they seen it, because he's
like we would open it up wewould have scared the crap out

(18:23):
of swimming up the pipe at theoutput there.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
Yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
So it happens more than you think, willie, and I
know it's one thing for us thatevery year it's like by two
o'clock in the afternoon you'relike going through being like
are you sure we have four?
It's not five, is it four?
And you're like I think lastyear we had.
No, it was the year before thefishing was really good.
So we had two different timeswhere me and my partner we quit
fishing.
He held the net over the sideof the boat and we threw the

(18:48):
fish into the net.
We're like, okay, yeah, that'sfour, put them in, release the
fifth one.
And now we know we have four.
Yeah, yeah, it's an added treatwith that muddy water.
It's uh, it's a pain well inwilds.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Yeah, that's a crazy body of water.
It's an awesome body of waterto the wobbling chain.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's my favorite lake in the whole world, but I
grew up on it, so it's awesome,really one of the best, yeah
yeah, and what species?
Like the fish is small mouth inthere uh, there's everything,
smallies, you even get the oddlargey now, uh, crappies, purge
crappie fishing is insane.
Yeah, probably the best crappiefishing.

(19:24):
I think maybe in the world likefor I would say northwestern
ontario, easily for sure yeah,like for 14 inch crappies like I
.
I remember when the like becausethey got introduced right and I
remember when we would startfishing for them we were
bringing home like limits andback then I think it was 20 fish
or 25 we bring home like threeguy limits of 14 to 17 inch
crappies and all my buddies fromthe Kenora and Nestor Falls are

(19:47):
like what are you guys doing,keeping those like you should be
?
those are the breeders throwthem back.
And we were all confusedbecause we're like man, these
things, everyone tells us theseare like perch.
You just keep every single oneand that was all we were
catching.
So then a couple of my buddiescame up fishing and you know,
you're halfway through filling afive gallon pail in the winter.
And they go man, we haven'tcaught one under 13 inches.
I go no, you don't like,there's no small ones.

(20:09):
Yeah, now we see some smallones, but it's still like.
The average size is probablystill 13 inches like.
But I remember when it firststarted like the biggest one I
ever seen was almost 19 inchesand we kept it.
We didn't even think twiceabout it.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
You know, what I thought over the years and I've
actually had this conversationwith someone else is those
crappies and they're reallylight crappies.
I am almost, I wouldn't besurprised, or I'm almost certain
, that that strain of crappiesis from the south, like those
crappies are, like the ones thatyou'd see in Lake Fork.

(20:44):
Do you know what I mean?
Like consistently right.
Like I've, seen crappies comeout of there.
That are almost two pounds.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, they're huge.
They're huge, it's crazy.
Like I said, the average sizeis probably 13 inches.
The weird part is I won't getinto the specifics.
But I won't get into thespecifics but I know some of the
people that put them in thelake 20 years ago or whatever 25
.
And they came out of LittleSawbill, which is on the way to
Fort Francis, and we eat thosefish, crappies there, and I mean

(21:13):
a 12-incher was a big one.
But I think they got intoWabagoon and it's just so
shallow, it's full of bugs,trees's just it's, it's
everything environmental like.
So they just exploded and and,uh, it's been the best thing for
the lake because, like, backwhen the crappies got into
wabigoon, you just hoped to geta limit of walleyes, like that,

(21:34):
if you went out walleye fishingand you got a limit, like you
know, my mom was happy.
She's like holy cow.
You got a limit of walleyes andnow, if you don't go out there
in that tournament and catch 230inches each day, you're not,
you're not even in the top five,like no, not even close and
you're catching a hundred a day.
It's like lack of school now,like the walleye fishing is just
, oh my it's.
It's probably one of the mostunderrated walleye fisheries in

(21:58):
Northwest Ontario and I thinkpersonally it's all because of
the crappies Because, like Isaid, I grew up on the lake and
when I was 16, if you caught, orwhen I was 12, 16 or whatever
if you caught a limit ofwalleyes, you were doing good.
And now it's.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
So I wonder why the crappie would have changed the
ecosystem to make it better forthe walleye.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
I think like we've talked about it a lot and we
think that like if you go outthere in the winter, now nobody
walleye fishes unless you'recatching a few walleyes while
you're crappie fishing.
So I think like a lot of likemy dad's older friends that you
know were mad that the limitwent from six to four walleyes.
They just go crappie fishingbecause you can keep 15.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
You can catch them during the middle of the day,
and the meat is just as good.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
It's so good that I think, like so many walleyes'
lives are saved between thetourist camps kind of push
people towards the crappies andthen the local fishermen if you
can eat five crappies, you'renot even going to bother with a
walleye and then we find a lotof crappies in the walleyes.
Like when you clean one,they'll have little tiny

(23:10):
crappies in them.
So I think it's just a wholebunch of things.
I imagine the muskies areeating the crappies instead of
the walleyes, like because wenever used to see the muskies in
the Clearwater Lakes and nowyou'll see them in the
Clearwater Lakes, which is wherethe crappies kind of took a
hold first.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
So I think there's a few things at play, very
interesting and totally makessense.
Yeah, that's great.
So how big is Lake Wabagoon?

Speaker 1 (23:40):
It's 13 lakes.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
Wabagoon, I think, is technically the biggest one,
although denorwick's not too faroff, um, and those are the two
muddy water lakes, and then youhave 11 clear water lakes
attached to it, I mean it's verysimilar to our chain, like
cedar, like the parole and cedarcedar lake chain, maybe a
little bit bigger in size withwabagoon, but the same amount of
style lakes, bodies of water,how they're a variety with the
rivers and it's very similarsteve it's a cool fishery
because you can fish, like whenthat tournament goes on.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's kind of cool because you can fish however you
want to fish, like some guysjust can't handle the muddy
water so they they just spendall their time in the clear
water lakes.
Um, and the clear water lakesfish like a regular clear water
lake and then um.
For the rest of us that youknow, I love being out on the
big mud.
If I can stay out there for thewhole tournament, I don't even
sniff around the clear water.

(24:24):
But the risk and reward onWabigan is kind of what gets you
.
You never know on Wabigan ifyou're setting the hook into a
14-incher or a 34-incher, whichis what I love about it.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, nice buddy, yeah, very cool.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
I think it's pretty crazy, though, how your dad used
to own that place, and you knowmy life is all about karmatic
justice.
I feel to me like that's,that's a big I'm a big believer
in that is.
You know that the, the path youtake, you know there's a reason
.
You took them or the or or theconnection somewhere, and like I
never had a reason why, but meand you got to be real good
friends here now and it's likeman, like it's crazy that you
used to own that place andthat's a big portion of my.

(25:04):
You know, that's a story in mylife.
Yeah, so I think that's.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
No, yeah, we uh that's awesome fond memories of
that tackle shop.
It's what got me into the thebait business.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
So for sure, for sure .
Well, and so that's what I wasgonna say, stevie, let's, let's
listen to, listen to, let's hearsome bait stories and tell us
about your bait business andwhat you do, what you sell, how
you move and maneuver your day.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, like I mean, the one question that I think we
should maybe start with so allof the folks out there
understand, is where and how doyou get your bait?

Speaker 1 (25:44):
So I I trap like I have myself and then my business
partner, damon I call himWheezy.
We grew up together our wholelives, so I started the bait
company in 2016.
Well, I shouldn't even say thatI took the bait company over in
2016.
Tragically, I lost my companyname, that's nickel Creek bait

(26:04):
company, so we call it MCBC.
And that was started by myuncle, scott Jeez, a long time
ago.
He used to sell minnows to mydad, um, and he called it MCBC
cause he loved ACDC.
Um, we grew up our trap cabin.
Uh, he was a fur and a minnowtrapper, so his fur cabin was on
Mickle Lake.
So thus Mickle Creek BaitCompany was born and he used to

(26:27):
trap and I used to go out.
When I was five, six years old,he'd take me out on the trap
line and actually this isprobably a good story to talk
about my uncle before I talkabout how he tragically passed
in 2016.
And then I took the businessover.
But when I was about sevenyears old, my uncle took me out
on a pond we just call it thebog pond.
I still trap it to this day andon the way out there he was
telling me all these storiesabout how in the UK and Ireland,

(26:51):
people will fall through thebog and they'll be found 500
years later and they look justlike they did when they fell
through and you have to bereally careful.
So we get to the pond and we'regetting everything ready and he
goes.
Okay, just walk over there andI'll pick you up in the canoe
and and I'll, and everythingwill be good, but just be
careful.
Well, sure enough, I take abouttwo steps and I fall through
this bog and I'm eight years old, I think I'm drowning, I'm

(27:13):
going to be one of these bogpeople and my uncle reaches in
and grabs me by the scruff ofthe neck and he pulls me out and
he throws me onto the top ofthe bog.
He goes there you go.
I saved you.
I saved you.
Well, lo and behold, now, 15years later, whatever it was,
I'm at that same pond and I'mtrapping for myself.
So of course, I'm thinking ofthese memories.
It was the first spring aftermy uncle passed, and so you know

(27:35):
it's kind of.
It was emotional.
The whole season was emotional,trapping without him.
So I'm on this pond and I'mremembering where I fell through
and I'm looking.
That son of a bitch set me upto fall through and just so he
could save me, and for my wholelife I've always remembered how
he was like King Kong, he savedmy ass.
And I'm looking at this bogwhere I fell through.

(27:59):
I'm like he set me up, like, ofcourse, at eight years old I
didn't know this, but now I'mlooking.
So I've been actually buggingmy brother.
Now he's got a young daughterwho's just turning five at the
end of the month and I keeptelling him oh, I'm excited
because I'm going to do the samething to her.
I'm going to let her right inthe bog and I go over to this
spot where he set me up to fallthrough.

(28:20):
It's about a foot and a halfdeep, like I could have stood
right up, but I was justtraveling and here for my whole
life I thought you know he savedme and what a guy.
And meanwhile, like I said, heset me up and and he did save me
, but I could have just stood up, so so that's kind of where it
all started.
I was from that age.
And then, um, after my unclepassed, uh, before he passed we

(28:43):
had been talking about me kindof taking over the trapping, and
then, when he passed, uh, itkind of just fell into my lap, I
guess unfortunately, but butfortunately at the same time
what was his name?
again, it was scott norman so hewas, uh, norman, yeah, he died.
He died too young.
He was like a second father tome.
You know, I spent most of mytime out on the trap line with

(29:03):
him, whether it was fur trappingor minnow trapping, and even at
that time like I think about ita lot now that if I could go
back to that eight-year-old kidthat fell through the bog and
tell him that I'm making aliving out on the trap line and
in that area and I've expandedthe business, you know, tenfold
since I took it over, but thatlittle kid would be just like so

(29:24):
giddy I don't even think thathe would care if I had a pot to
piss in, as long as I could paythe bills and be living like
this.
Like that was the dream.
So it's just been kind ofsurreal in that way.
So then we took it over in 2016.
At that point my dad was stillselling bait when he sold the
tackle shop.
Some stuff went on there andthen eventually he got back into

(29:46):
selling bait, just basicallybecause a bunch of our old
customers were calling andasking if we would get back into
it.
So I took over for my unclekind of trapping it and I would
sell it to my dad.
And then during COVID my oldman was retiring from the mill
in Dryden.
He was a welder his whole life,uh, and he wanted to get out of
the bait too.

(30:06):
Um, so I I took that over fromhim then.
So now I do all the, all thesales and all uh, a lot of the
trapping.
We do buy some minnows from afew trappers and then obviously
my business partner traps aswell.
So, um, so, as Willie knows,these lodges go through a lot of
bait every day.
So you got to be out thereevery day pretty much all summer
.
So it's a hectic job.

(30:27):
Pounds and pounds.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Tell us how you trap, like what's the process of
actually collecting your bait?

Speaker 1 (30:36):
And what you're trapping.
Yeah, so we trap leeches andminnows.
We buy our worms and sell ourworms just through a wholesaler
but we trap our leeches and ourminnows and we trap them.
The leeches are a littledifferent than the minnows.
The minnow traps are kind ofeverybody's senior typical
minnow trap.
We make our own traps forcommercial, so they're a little

(30:56):
different but the idea is thesame.
So we trap our minnows that wayin the ponds.
You know we're going to allsorts of ponds and lakes.
It kind of depends on the timeof the year and the weather.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
And are you on four-wheeler side-by-side
walking Like how do you movethrough there?

Speaker 1 (31:14):
We do it all by foot and four-wheeler and truck.
We've kind of looked into theplane thing a little bit.
I know I heard you had Ilistened to your podcast with
wayne big wayne, yeah, yeah, he.
You know, if I ever get to thepoint where I have 150 trap
lines like him, maybe we'll haveto look into a plane, but for
now we can get a different levelyeah, yeah, I don't.

(31:36):
To be honest, I don't even know,uh, how wayne even he probably
doesn't get to half those traplines, but it's good to have
them either way and you need theplane to get to them.
So my problem is I'm afraid ofheights, like even when I was
guiding full time and I was inflying, like I'm not.
I don't like planes.
So I started listening to thosestories of you know, and I've

(31:57):
talked to a lot of the oldtrappers.
Wayne's stories match up withevery airplane pilot that flies
for minnows I've ever heard of.
It's like the craziest thingyou can do, I think, with your
life.
I've heard stories of guys heretying their plane off to a tree
on the shoreline so that theycan get the plane going wide

(32:18):
open and then they reach backwith an axe and cut the rope
just so that you'll be able toget up before the trees.
I'm like man, I'll cut, I'llchainsaw trail to that pond
every time.
Like I'll go, I'll go in thewinter and cut a trail in there
before I'm trying that stuff.
Yeah, so you imagine that right?
Yeah, like it's not.
That's not for me.

(32:38):
We hired, like I know, a fewguys with planes here, so we'll
hire them to kind of fly usaround our bait blocks and look
for where we should put a trailor if we even can get into ponds
.
But I'm not going to fly intoponds.
So we drive and quad.
Luckily for us, they've done somuch logging around here the
last 10, 15 years that like itseems like every time we go out

(33:05):
to the trap line we can get toanother pond.
It seems like.
So we just keep expanding thatway and uh, and we haven't had
to get into the flying.
So we we mostly just quad, uhtruck.
Sometimes you walk if it's ashort trailer or whatever, and
then we're as long as we can geta canoe in there with a cooler
we're in there like a dirtyshirt man and trying to get as
much, uh much bait as we can.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
And what do you want?
Pardon, what do you bait withyour traps, Like when you go in
and trap them?
What do you?
What do you put in your trap?

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Something different.
Um, we use chicken feed.
I find it works the best.
Um, I've heard other stuff Likethe pellets.
Yeah, it's like pellets.
So what we do is we put them ina bucket, you wet them, kind of
make like a bread flour, wemake balls and then we bake them

(33:52):
in the oven and then you usethose.
They're about a hard ball size,gotcha.
So, yeah, we use those in thetraps.
To be honest, part of it my oldman still has has a feed
business in dry and they sell alot of feed to like farmers and
stuff and it started with deerfeed for our deer business, but
so they have the chicken feedthere.
So it's just the easiest.
Usually my old man needsminnows, so he just drops off a

(34:14):
bag of chicken feed we give him.
That's your cue.
Yeah, it's a good trade.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
eh yeah, and what about le leeches?
So when you get into theminnows you put this thing in
the trap, you throw it out justlike a normal you know any kind
of thing else, and the minnowsswim in and they can't get out
and you go get them.
But what about leeches?
How do you?
So you're trapping the samelakes for the leeches, and how
do you do that?

Speaker 1 (34:36):
So so they're the same kind of lakes We've kind of
found, like if a pond is reallygood for like nice size minnows
, it doesn't seem to be as goodfor leeches.
Like you might get jumboleeches but you won't get as
many typically.
But if a lake is just full ofminnows and you know, like some
of these ponds, they're just allyou know, they're too tiny

(34:58):
where if I brought them toWillie he's going to tell them
to take them home, willie he'sgoing to tell him to take up,
take them home, their guestsaren't going to use them.
Yeah, those ponds can be thebest for numbers of leeches, um,
and then for that we're justusing like a hunk of liver, or
we use a lot of suckers, likewe'll go get suckers in the
spring and just cut them intolike suckers, uh stakes, and we
put them in the trap and uh, theonly difference between the
leeches and the minnows is theleeches.

(35:19):
We're setting the traps rightbefore dark and we're back right
at sunup.
Some guys even go before sunup.
Just makes it a pain in the ass, to be honest, trying to find
the traps in the dark.
So I'm usually at the ponds atlike 3.30 or 4 in the morning,
whenever the sun's coming up,and we do that right at first

(35:39):
light where the minnows theminnows, you can trap them
whenever.
Um, if it's summertime, you know, like the middle of July, when
it's plus 30, we have to do theminnows every day, cause they'll
get sunburned and uh, and thenwhen we bring them to the lodge
they kind of slowly die and thenI have to deal with it.
It's always my fault, right?
So, uh, we do that a littledifferent, but for the most part

(36:00):
we trap a lot of our minnows inthe springtime when the
trapping is easy, and then we'llstore them and then just kind
of trap a little bit in thesummer to keep stock.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
And like when you store them, you've got tanks Are
they like concrete tanks orwith aerators, obviously?
And then you feed them.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
We have a few different kinds of tanks.
We mostly run big stainlesssteel milk.
They're the old milk containers, yeah, yeah.
So we mostly run those.
And then at my businesspartner's place there we got
four tanks set up that haveconstant running well water.
Unfortunately for me, I stilllive in town.
I just purchased some propertyout on our trap line.

(36:40):
Actually Me and the wife aregoing to build out there, but
for now I'm in town so I run a.
I run a system.
Well, it's the exact samesystem.
Wayne runs in his bait shopsit's the same tank, so I can run
it off of like I have achlorine filter so I can run it
off of tap water.
And then I have mine.
My tank is three big sectionsand then I have mine.
My tank is three big sections.

(37:01):
So I'll have my minnows dividedsmall, medium, large.
So all the minnows that arekind of selling day to day stay
in my tank and I do the sellingand the transporting and all
that.
And then the tanks at Damon'shouse are kind of where we just
store the bulk of our minnows.
And if there's anything,sometimes, like you know, for
certain tournaments guys wantsuckers, so then we'll store

(37:21):
those separately because youknow for certain tournaments
guys want suckers.
So then we'll store thoseseparately because you know if
we can help it we're not goingto go just trap suckers.
If we're getting them kind ofas byproduct, we'll just keep
them separate in those big tanks.
But for the most part, yeah,the bulk of the minnows stay in
the big tanks and then theminnows that are selling day to
day stay in my sorted tank.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Nice.
When you're in the wilds ofnorthwestern Ontario, you need
gear you can trust and a teamthat's got your back.
That's Lakeside Marine in RedLake, ontario Family owned since
1988.
They're your go-to pro campdealer, built for the North,

(38:03):
from Yamaha boats and motors toeverything in between.
We don't just sell you gear, westand behind it.
Lakeside Marine Rugged,reliable, ready.

Speaker 5 (38:28):
Ready Back in 2016, Frank and I had a vision to
amass the single largestdatabase of muskie angling
education material anywhere inthe world.

Speaker 7 (38:35):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community and share itwith passionate anglers just
like you.

Speaker 5 (38:41):
Thus the Ugly Pike Podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North.

Speaker 7 (38:47):
America.
Step into the world of anglingadventures and embrace the
thrill of the catch with theUgly Pike Podcast.
Join us on our quest tounderstand what makes us
different as anglers and touncover what it takes to go
after the infamous fish of10,000 casts.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
The Ugly Pike podcast isn't just about fishing.
It's about creating atight-knit community of
passionate anglers who share thesame love for the sport Through
laughter, through camaraderieand an unwavering spirit of
adventure.
This podcast will bring peopletogether.

Speaker 7 (39:17):
Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our
angling adventures.

Speaker 5 (39:20):
Tight lines everyone Subscribe now and never miss a
moment of our angling adventures.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Tight lines everyone Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify,
apple Podcasts or wherever elseyou get your podcasts, you're
collecting these things andyou're trudging through the bush
and at like all hours of thenight.
What are some crazy things thatyou've seen out there, like,

(39:44):
have you seen?
Like you must have seen animalsand bear, or anything like that
.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah, you see all sorts of stuff.
I'm trying to think of anythingout of the ordinary.
Like we see a lot of moose, yousee, like some neat stuff like
you'd never think.
Like, uh, last year we had onepond where I think it was an
otter um was stealing all theanytime we would use sucker meat
in that pond for leeches, theywould steal it out of the trap.

(40:14):
So, like you, I ended up havingto like wrap the sucker meat up
in like a bag so that itcouldn't get the sucker meat out
, which if you weren't out thereyou'd never think that was a
thing, but it was like three orfour times in a row.
So I'm like, and sometimes weget turtles like the turtles are
really bad for doing that, butusually they're like you know, I

(40:37):
can think of a couple of pondswhere if I set a trap at this
particular spot, a turtle'staking it, like he's taking the
bait out.
I've even had it where I pullthe leech trap up and the
turtle's in the trap and youhave to dump a little painting
turtle out.
But other than that there's nottoo much crazy stuff that
happens on the pond.
Like we see all sorts of weirdstuff with loons and you see
bears and moose on the blocks.

(40:58):
Last year probably the neatestthing was Damon was staying.
We keep a camper out on one ofour trap lines every year
because some of them, you know,are an hour and a half drive
through the bush roads.
So he woke up.
Of course you're getting up atfour in the morning to go leech
trapping.
I think he had set the leechtraps at like 1030 at night

(41:20):
after he got off the middleponds.
So he goes.
You know he wakes up.
He's like I'm starting my truckbecause it's early or late May,
it's cold.
You know he goes.
I go out, I start my truck, I'minside, I'm the camper, I'm
getting the French press goingfor the coffee, and he goes.
I haven't even woke up yetRight, my eyes are still covered
in sleep and he goes.

(41:47):
I'm hearing scratching and I'mlike what the heck is that?
Like you know he's like it'snot making sense.
And so he looks out the windowof the camper and about five
feet in front of his truck isthis giant black bear that's
scratching the tree.
Now we've just finished ourblack bear season where we
killed 13 bears.
So david looks is telling methis.
He goes.
I'm assuming this bear is outfor blood, like he's sitting
there scratching the tree.
And Damon said when I went tomy truck I was five feet away
from this thing and never evenknew it was there.
Like you know he's like.
I started the truck I'm halfasleep, I didn't even look.

(42:09):
I get back in the camper, herethis thing is.
It's scratching the tree.
Well, he goes.
So I yell at that thing likehey, hey, get out of here.
He goes.
That bear looks over at thecamper and just keeps scratching
the tree and he goes so nextthing, I know, I'm stuck in the
camper for 20 minutes waitingfor this thing to take off.
Of course we have.
You know, there's no gun, no,nothing like.
He's got a fillet knife, maybe,and and so he goes.

(42:32):
I'm yelling at this bear andhe's we got the picture.
It's unreal the damage the beardid to this big pine tree and
it was like I I never seen thebear, but I seen the scratches.
There was a good reason not toleave that camper and, yeah,
like stuff like that happens allthe time.
I'm lucky I bring.
I have a springer spaniel thatwhen I started in 2016, I don't

(42:54):
really know how I trained him tocome trapping with me, but he
follows me around every pond andit don't matter if it's a bear
game warden.
You get ran off if you trysneaking in on us and we got a
few ones.
Find out the hard way that a 50pound springer spaniel is a
pretty scary thing when it comesflying through the woods at you
.
Yeah, so, and I've never had anissue with a black bear, so I'm

(43:14):
fortunate that way, but yeah,that's probably one of the
crazier things we've had happenyeah, yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
So listen to kind of nicely.
Tie up the bait portion.
How, where, where can peoplebuy your bait and do you sell
just directly to lodges, or doyou have a storefront or how?
Tell us about that part sopeople can find you.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
So we mostly sell like probably 95% is directly to
what I would say is like otherwholesalers, like lodges, tackle
shops.
So I try and avoid selling toomuch to the public.
Perfect, it doesn't feel rightto me.
I sell to the tackle shop intown.
I'm not going to go andundercut them a dollar so that I

(44:03):
can make an extra dollar.
I'd rather just sell it rightto them.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, so your product is going into all the tackle
shops.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, I, to be honest , I prefer working with the
lodges cause I don't liketrapping in the winter.
But just like for local guys,if, if, if.
Like I've sold to local guys ifthey're going on a big trip,
like, if you want more than 50dozen, I'll sell to you, um, if
you want less than that, I justtell you to go to the tackle
shops.
I sell to, um, they help me outall year, so I'm not going to
undercut them a little bit, Iknow a lot, a lot of the guys,

(44:33):
uh, especially like themiddle-aged trappers seem to
really get into like trying tosell it like by the dozen on
their own and it's so much extrawork and headache that I just
don't want any part of it.
And two, I just again I don'tfeel right kind of undercutting
the same shops I'm selling to.
I'd rather the guy just go andbuy from them.
And everyone always thinks I'mnot going to give you that much

(44:57):
of a better deal to undercut myother clients, especially
they're.
They're buying you know three,400 dozen a week where you're.
You want two dozen, why am Igiving you a better deal?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, mostly it's all to thelodges and tackle shops and
we're always expanding everyyear Like we keep, we keep
growing and growing.
I just added two more customersyesterday, the difference we

(45:18):
kind of do, which I think hashelped us a lot.
And this is going back to whenit was my old man's when we had
the tackle shop.
You'd have every trapper comesin and says I'm going to trap
all your minnows, I'm going toget everything you ever need.
And I'm, I got it all.
And that's fine in the spring,but once it starts getting warm
in June, any trapper that trapsa lot, knows like it gets hard

(45:43):
to find them and it's just hardto keep up with it.
So we always make sure, like Ialways tell the guys, if I take
you on as a client I will alwayshave your bait and that doesn't
matter if I have to go out atthree in the morning to get
there for 6 am when you'regiving your bait to your guests,

(46:03):
we'll always have bait for you.
If I said I'll have bait for youand I mean even last year, like
Willie gets some leeches off ofus and I owed him a few at the
end of the year and they weren'tkind of the quality that I
usually sell, willie and aregular trapper probably would
have just dropped them off andsaid there you go.
And a regular trapper probablywould have just dropped them off
and said there you go.
We agreed on whatever theweight was, but I wasn't going

(46:24):
to.
You know I called them and said, hey, these are kind of.
They're smaller than what youwant.
You can take them, but if youdon't want them I'm not going to
be mad.
And you know, I think Willieprobably appreciated not having
a bunch of leeches that hiscustomers were going to complain
to him about.
So I think little things likethat is kind of what's allowed

(46:44):
us to stay growing every yearand, like I said, it's just more
.
Every customer I bring on Ikind of want to treat like
family.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Well, and that's why you're absolutely right.
It's not coincidence oranything like that the reason
that people are coming to youand using you.
Because, as a business ownermyself, when I owned the lodge,

(47:10):
if I had somebody that was goingto tell me I was going to get
minnows in July in 30-degreeheat, and stand up to that, that
would be a seller right there.
Because for the last four orfive years of my tenure I didn't
even have minnows for those hotmonths because I couldn't keep

(47:36):
them alive and they were so hardto find.
So just knowing that and thefact that you're treating people
the way that people should betreated and you're building a
relationship with your clientele, that is the secret to success,

(48:02):
right?

Speaker 1 (48:03):
So you're doing everything right.
I'm very thankful that I kindof grew up the way I did in the
bait business and in the liketackle shop business, just
because we we seen it so much.
Sorry, I'm just plugging in mylaptop here.
And we seen it so much whereguys like, like I said, we're
giving you promises that I meanwe were in the bait business at

(48:24):
the time, right, my uncle wasalways trapping so we knew, like
one, we knew how much bait wewere selling and that it wasn't
even possible for one minnowtrapper to supply it all.
And uh, and then we just youknow there were so many promises
.
I mean I love wayne, but Iremember fu matches between
wayne and my old man in thetackle shop because there wasn't

(48:45):
the bait that there wassupposed to be.
So I remember when I got intoit I'm like I'm never going to
get into a situation where Imade a promise that I didn't
keep to somebody.
So we've grown a lot slowerthan we could have.
Like, last year I turned down ahuge contract that, to be
honest, looking back, might'veeven been a bad business move

(49:07):
now.
But we at the time we had justbought a bunch of new bait
blocks and we didn't know howgood they were going to be.
So it's like I I figured they'dbe good enough that we could
have taken on the client.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
But when you're that, when you're a client that big,
I don't want to, I guess, pissyou off, uh, because I couldn't
be sure.
Don't burn that bridge, buddy,don't?

Speaker 2 (49:26):
yeah, that's yeah, no , that's smart I appreciate the
fact that you're saying I'm notsure that we can do this for you
, because then they can go.
But once you get set up and nowyou know you can go back and
you can say hey, listen, youknow, we're good to go now, and
that's part of building arelationship.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yeah, I was just gonna say it works out both ways
where it's been good for us,because now, like it's a
cutthroat business and I know afew like younger trap Well, not
a few, I know a couple like guysthat are getting into it now
and it's like everyone's justtrying to steal customers from
everyone and we're kind of lucky.
The way my dad taught me todeal with the, the lodges, and

(50:08):
everything has led to where ifyou call some of the lodges I
deal with, they're probablygonna tell you to f off.
You know, and it don't matterif you're half the price, like
they know, I'm gonna be therewhen they need it and all those
relationships have kind of beenset because of that.
So it's kind of worked out goodin the long run and, to be
honest, it makes my life easierin the summer because it gets so

(50:30):
hectic between all threebusinesses trying to keep
everything straight that havingthose good relationships with
those lodges and tackle shops,it's really helped me be able to
like I'll tell them hey, thewife's been on my arse.
I'm not going to be hereSaturday night, I'm not going to
be back till Sunday night.
You guys got to make do withoutme, and if that means they're

(50:53):
going to take a little extrabait than they normally would,
they will.
Just to help me where I mean wealways advertise that it's
seven days a week and it is, butit's nice to be able to, you
know, get out and go to camp fora night or two and keep the
wife off my back and she has todeal with a lot of a lot of
headaches dealing with me duringbait season.
I wouldn't want to deal with meduring bait season, so I got to

(51:15):
try and give her some sympathywhen I can.
So that's been nice having therelationships with the lodge
where they they're willing tokind of work with me and and and
help me out when I need need abreak, and and it's good to good
to work both ways.
With that I think it helpseverybody out and there's more
than enough in Northwest Ontariofor everybody Like it.

(51:38):
It doesn't have to be ascutthroat.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
Your customer service is excellent, buddy, just like,
like wayne.
Wayne is like a different levelof a guy, I think in
northwestern ontario becausehe's the mecca.
and then I see, like you andcody charlebois, I think, are
like, so like those are thethree big names I know in
northwestern ontario and you allkind of do business.

(52:00):
The same is, you know there's,you have your people and those
people are dedicated and at thesame time, the dedication comes
you know yours and reversed backto them, which is which is
great, and I love the fact thatyou guys aren't cutting each
other's throats like that.
You know that's a, that's a keything and I know it personally
firsthand because I deal withWayne and 90% of my stuff and

(52:22):
that one area that I've beenfriends with you in for a while
and I deal with you and it'snever a conflict, never an issue
and I know at any point it can,I can call out of one of you
and you're there for me in aminute.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
I think that's the better way to be.
Like I know, with Wayne, he'sgot such a big operation that I
don't have a clue how he does it.
Like, yeah, and like peopletell me that I have a big
operation between all thebusinesses that I run and like,
and you know, even my old man'salways on my ass that I'm gonna
be way too busy and all this.
And then I look at like whatwayne does and I'm like like
he's got four people basicallybetween him his wife, his
daughter and her boyfriend andthey, like you know, they have

(53:04):
140 trap lines now somethinglike that, like so it's a
referencefor reference, me and Damon uh,
we just bought two more, so wehave, I think, 12.
Now we're in the process ofbuying like three or four more.
It's hard for the two of us totrap like the 12 that we have.
Like like there's blocks Ihaven't been to for years, like

(53:25):
for a couple years, um, and someof that is because we let
blocks get a break but like tohave 150 blocks and everything
wayne does.
I have no idea how he does itand and I think that's part of
it he's a champ, yeah, and allthe camps and everything.
so we run it like like well, forinstance, I just I'm in the
process right now of signing upa camp that does half their bait

(53:46):
with Wayne and, like I told him, I don't care.
Like you know, some peoplewould get mad and be like, oh,
you have to buy everything fromme.
I'm like man, they're a hugelodge.
Like they go through hundredsof dozens a day I go.
In my opinion, I think they'dbe silly to trust just me or to
trust just Wayne, you know.
Um, so I I have no problemworking with people and I just

(54:07):
want everyone to end up at theend of the day being happy.
I find that's best for businessand it's always that's how I've
always done it, and evenwhether it's the bear business,
the minnow business or thebarber business, it's always
kind of led to more clientelefor me by operating that way.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
Dude, that's so awesome.
And I and you're right, I knowlike, uh, you listened to that
podcast with Wainer there, youknow it's me and Wayne have
gotten really close and uh, andnot for business, personal, you
know we both are, we both are,uh, you know we're very
aggressive but opinionatedpeople at the same time but also
have big hearts and I thinkyou're the same way.

(54:43):
You know you don't put up withshit and you'll go do your thing
, but at the same time you havea big emotional heart and I love
that.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
And to me that makes all of us succeed together in
the Northwest it's funny you saythat I was just telling a young
trapper.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
So we helped out a young trapper last year and we
ended up catching wind that theit wasn't reciprocal.
We'll leave it at that.
You know there was there were.
Part of the deal was you knowhe was going to trap some for us
.
We were going to help him outwhen he needed Cause he had
taken a contract that I knew hecouldn't fill.
But he was a young guy.
He's trying to break in.
So you know it's nice justseeing.

(55:21):
I mean you know how hard it isto find people to work Like
there's no young guys that wantto get in this industry.
So the problem was we ended upbecause it's a small world
finding out that you know hehadn't fulfilled his end of the
bargain and it wasn't because hecouldn't have, so he had lied
to us.
So then it's funny dealing withsome of these guys because he
goes.
Well, I don't get why you guysare so mad.

(55:42):
I'm like I'm not mad at whatyou did, I'm mad that you lied
to me.
You know, because in thebusiness it's like if you're to
me, I'm like if your word meansnothing, what do you have then?

Speaker 4 (55:52):
like uh, well, you could have helped him out.
That's the problem.
Right, you could have.
You could have went to hisblock and been like well, hey,
man listen, I understand thatyou're not cutting the slope
right now, but I'll help you out, because then it gets me my
stuff that you agreed to, right?

Speaker 1 (56:05):
so that's well exactly you know part of the
deal.
It basically the deal was hewas going to sell us some
leeches every week and we wouldhelp him out with his minnows
and all summer long, you know,we helped him with his minnows
and we just kept hearing abouthow he was too busy to go out
leech trapping which he probablyshould have been too busy.
But then at the end of the year, when you're having a few beers

(56:26):
and you start bragging aboutall these leeches you trapped
and that you didn't fulfill yourorders to us, you know it's
like well, you know, now, thisyear, why am I going to?
Am I going to bail you out?
Because you know I.
I certainly didn't have to.
And, to, and, and.
To be honest, my businesspartner was like why are we

(56:46):
helping out a comp, a competitor?
You know competition, um.
But to me it was like, hey,there's plenty of business to go
around.
I don't mind helping them out.
If you go back I'll scratchyours.
But when you start finding outthat you know, uh, somebody's
word doesn't necessarily mean asmuch as your word means.
It's kind of like well, thisyear, when you're hard up's word
doesn't necessarily mean asmuch as your word means.
It's kind of like well, thisyear, when you're hard up, don't
don't call me Saturday night,because you need 400 dozen for

(57:09):
Sunday morning.

Speaker 4 (57:10):
You taught him a lesson.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
You taught him a lesson and you know my old man
had said it when I was growingup that there's reasons not to
do these kinds of things.
And so it's funny now weconsider my old man, we call him
Big K, so me and Damon, mypartner, we'll always, whenever
we have a question aboutsomething, I say like, well, we
better call the consultant.
So we call my old man.
I don't know if he laughs at usmore or what, but after a good

(57:36):
laugh at what's going on heusually just sits there and he
shakes his head and he somehowalways knows it was going to
happen.
You know, he goes ah, I seenthat coming and he goes well,
I'll do this and then it.
So we're lucky in that regard.
Where I got the old man and hekind of makes light of it and he
talked about all the, all thedifferent camps that had done
the same thing to him, or thesame trappers that had done I
caught Stevie here on the logend.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yeah Well, I know something about good business
and never stray away from it,and that is all.
Ships rise with the tide, soyou know it's.
I never chose to have a badrelationship with anybody.
But having said that, you know,when you learn certain things

(58:21):
about certain people, um, trustis, uh, is, uh, is is um the
ultimate um trait in a person,and when somebody doesn't, isn't
trustworthy, then you know.
You just have to watch yourself, right.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Yeah, and I'm used to that, like business right, you
always hear like nothing'snothing's fair in business,
right, and and so you're used toit.
I guess I'm a little differentwhere, like, growing up, my
uncle Scott was always big onlike trappers, have to look out
for trappers and you shouldalways, you know, be honest with
trappers.
And I'm not saying you know, uh, there was a reason why when
you asked about the leech traps,I didn't say what our leech

(59:00):
traps looked like, because,absolutely, david gave me very
specifics if I was coming onhere that we kind of figured
something out with leech trapsthat no one else does, and he
said if you share that I'll killyou um, so like, yeah, that's
trade secrets, brother, youdon't have to share those yeah.
But I mean, we kind of grew upwhere my uncle was always like
hey, if you can help a, help atrapper out, if you could be

(59:21):
honest with a trapper, we're allin it, all in this together.
So that's kind of where we'vegone on, and it's nice to know
now that not all the trappersare in the same boat.
But that's fine and and I meanit, like I said, having that
mentality kind of has led us tohave a pretty successful
businesses and as we've got intothe bear, uh, outfitting
business and it's kind of.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah, let's go there, let's talk about your whole
outfitting business.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Okay, yeah, so we run .
Our big one is we do springbear.
So we have a big spring bearhunt.
Me and Damon pour a ton of timeand energy into it.
We build big, beautiful standsand it's probably been their
most rewarding uh business wehave.
I think in that because we'vepoured so much work into it, it

(01:00:10):
has taken off kind of more thanwe even imagined, where now I
have other bear outfitters thatare going up to my old man and
being like man, all my, all mycustomers are just talking about
your son.
They want to go and hunt withyour son and Damon, and when
we're doing all the work it justseems like to us like what you
should do.
I guess, like they pay us verywell, you know.

(01:00:31):
And so we put a lot of work in.
And when I used to guide for allthe lodges I guided for it was
one of my biggest pet peeves andkind of why I got into working
for myself, was that a lot ofthe lodges, I hate to say it cut
so many corners and like kindof cut them in ways that like I
don't think you need to.
You know, like if you'recharging someone, like, for

(01:00:54):
instance, one thing that I canthink off the top of my head.
I guided for a guy for moose,and it was all old, crappy
engines on the like, the boats,and even like the battery he
gave us to power the lights inthe wall tent.
It had to have been in thebottom of a boat at one of his
lodges for like four yearsbecause like it would power
these little twinkle lights forabout four minutes.

(01:01:15):
Um, so the the poor oldamericans can't even tie their
their boots up before the lightsgo out.
And then I got to fire up agenerator at five in the morning
so that they can get ready.
Meanwhile you're in the middleof nowhere, sleeping in a wall
tent because you're trying to bequiet, and in the middle of
nature, right, and I remembersitting there like a 20-year-old
kid going like I know what he'scharging for these hunts, I

(01:01:38):
know what he's paying me, I knowwhat the plane costs.
There's plenty of money in it tobuy a hundred dollar battery at
canadian tire.
You know, like proper equipment, there was always little things
like that that would piss theguests off and for a guide,
you're like looking at your tip,just you know, and it's like,
oh yeah, I'm like I'll, I'll buythe battery myself.
So when me and damon startedthe bear hunt it was like, okay,

(01:02:01):
we're not gonna hold backanything, like we're, we're
gonna do it exactly how we wouldwant it if we were paying what
these guys are paying, and like,at first you still had some of
the guys who just wanted a cheaphunt and and they kind of went
off on their own and left us.
But now we have a group of guysthat, like, they appreciate it
and like, like last year wekilled two bears, over 400

(01:02:23):
pounds, um, two boone andcrockets.
One was probably the biggestbear, to be honest, killed in
ontario last year.
I keep trying to get the guy toput the skull in um, but he
won't.
He doesn't care about therecord books or whatever, but um
, the best part of the wholeseason.
Uh, people always think like,oh, it must have been that big
bear and the big bear was fun,it was a lot of work.

(01:02:44):
But the best part was beforethat guy shot the bear.
He's been on what did he say?
32 bear hunts or somethingacross Canada, this fella.
And he texted me this is thenicest tree stand I've ever been
in and it's not even close likethat.
A boy.
This guy's 400 pounds, right.
So he's like you know he used tobring his own stands.

(01:03:05):
He would tell me to some of theplaces he went and you know we
build them.
We have a sawmill, me and Damon, so we cut the boards and we
built nice big platform standsand I'm like that was the best
part, was like all the guysbeing like this is above and
beyond what we expected and uh,and then, like I said, said that

(01:03:26):
just led to where now, becausemy old man sells the feed, he's
had two or three guys come andand be like man, all my hunters
are in camp talking about your,your kids hunt.
They're not even talking aboutthe hunt that they're on.
And uh, and I'm like that to ushas been the most like
rewarding part, because I meanjust knowing that we're doing it
right and then seeing how, likeI mean, if you want to book a

(01:03:46):
bear hunt with us.
As of last june, you had tobook for 2026, so like we're
booking 18 to 2 years in advanceand how many tags do you have
in your bma?

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
we?

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
have 13 so we run for two.
So I run it for two differentlodges.
Between we have one, two, three, four bear units total between
the two.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
Hold on, so they're not your hold on, so we don't
take it back a second.
So my so like I own my BMA DRO5-7.
So this be the BMAs you'rehunting are for lodges and
you're contracting them.
Is that what you're?

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
doing yeah.
So what happened?
That was an awesome idea.
Yeah, so how it started was 26,so when I was I should, I guess
I'll rewind so when I was still,uh, just starting out as a
barber, I ended up living in mycamper at deer path lodge.
The owner's name is rick tinney, so I lived there.
He, he let me like so forreference, like in sulac out
rent is like a thousand dollarsa month, so for 600 bucks he let

(01:04:42):
me camp at his lodge for thewhole season From May 1st, and I
stayed there till like November, I can't even remember as long
as you could.
Oh, I was so broke rightstarting out that I didn't have
any money to move.
So it was like, once this isover with.
I didn't even know where I wasgoing and what happened was,
because I was there so often,most of the guests started
thinking I was an employee andso I'd be sitting there and I'd

(01:05:05):
help guys unload their trucks orwhatever, and Rick would come
up to me and be like, hey, youdon't have to do that.
And I'm like Rick no-transcript.

(01:05:29):
You know, he's old and he's gota neck injury and he just can't
do it.
And if I would maybe beinterested in helping him out
and and doing the bear hunt.
So I started off with him andthen, uh, as it kind of grew
with, like I said, how, how uhnice of a job we were doing.
And we were, you know, we careda little more.
It wasn't just like I don'tjust go and throw a bear bait

(01:05:49):
three days before the huntersget here.
It's like I'm baiting a monthbefore they show up and even
more the week they're they'rearriving, um.
So the hunt booked solid.
Um, it was busy.
Rick loved it, while otherlodges started kind of getting
wind.
Uh, one of the lodges we soldbait to asked me if I'd be
interested, because they hadanother guy doing it and the guy

(01:06:10):
was charging them just likethey pay us well, and he was
getting a lot more than we weregetting.
I'll leave it at that, um, yeah, so they asked if we would take
it on.
So we took on that lodge, uh,coming out of COVID, and then
that one snowballed now where wehave, I think, one or two other
lodges that are trying to getus kind of to take over their

(01:06:30):
hunt.

Speaker 4 (01:06:32):
The problem starts being Well, it's a great idea.
Yeah, if you're out there doingthat work, like I know, I have
one of the biggest BMAs.
Like I know, I have one of thebiggest BMAs, I think actually I
have the biggest number persquare kilometers in
northwestern Ontario, with 35tags in that DRO 549.
And it's like I got 209 milesof land.

(01:06:55):
It's a lot of work and that'sthe thing.
Right, like we had, I had someof the prettiest bears I'll send
you them, kyle that you've everseen, but they're so.
I have a family of cinnamonsthat are breeding, but they're
skunk striped, so they'reprobably about six inches across

(01:07:16):
the back and from the skullright to the butt and I've never
seen anything like that, and Iput two of them on the ground
this year and I've seen at leastthree or four more out there.
But you know, selling the huntsis awesome.
The bears are there.
I have really good stands.
I have an amazing area.
My thing is is I'm too busy andto pay a staff, so to have a

(01:07:39):
guy if you just here here's my,here's the clients that are
coming you bait them and youtake care of them and here's our
percentage.
That's a.
That's a great deal for a lodgeowner, because it's because
you're saying it's a lot of workand if you're already out in
the bush doing minnows andleeches and this, already you're
in that area where I have toleave the lodge twice, three
times a day, and or my staff andthe fuel and this it gets to be

(01:08:03):
a lot of money for a twothousand dollar hunt.
You know what I mean.
So that's it's a really goodidea that you're doing that,
consulting like that throughthose lodges like willie, and I
mean you steve used to have alodge that you could appreciate
too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
We, we take care of everything right from.
Like I book the hunters, I takethe hunters to the stands, Like
we do the advertisement, thelodge.
They take care of the cabinsand collect the money Like.
So for them it's a no-brainer.
Like Rick at Deerpaw all thetime he tells all of them he

(01:08:36):
goes, there would be no bearhunt if it wasn't for Kyle, you
know, and Damon, and for us,like the bear blocks are, we've
been kind of purchasing minnowblocks around these bear blocks
so we're already out there.
Um, our best bear block isactually the minnow block of my
uncle's.
Uh, the bear block surrounds it.
So I grew up out there.
So I like, when we got thatbear block, I'm like looking

(01:08:57):
where they had their stands, I'mgoing man, you guys have no
idea, like what you're missingout on, and uh, and so then once
we take it over, like itusually takes a year, I think
the first year the lodge is kindof skeptical because you know
they're giving away 50, 60percent of the their money on
the hunt.
But then when they see whatthey're getting and how happy
the guests are, it's like it's ano-brainer, like I always the

(01:09:19):
return over is is is worth, isis the money in the long run.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
It's not no-brainer.
The return over is the money inthe long run.
It's not short-term money, it'slong-term.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Our hunters always laugh.
If you asked Rick or Kurt whois the owner at the other lodge,
they couldn't point on a mapwhere the bear stands are.
That's how much control we take.
Yeah, well, not evendisconnected.
That's crazy.
They're like hey, kyle andDamon are the bear guys.
Just that's crazy that they'relike hey, kyle and damon are the
bear guys.
Like, when people call, they'relike just call kyle and damon,

(01:09:46):
like and, and that's how weprefer it.
Like I would rather have a wholehunt going back to the hundred
dollar battery, because nowthere's no, no, that doesn't
even get discussed.
And I find it's easier with thelodges, like now, if we say hey
, we need to upgrade every stand, you know.
So, like the one lodge we tookover, they had a bunch of old
rinky dink stands.

(01:10:07):
We're like we're going toupdate every stand and this is
what we're going to do.
We show them like a picture andit becomes like well, do the
guests want it?
Yep, they talk to the guests.
The guests say yeah, what doyou need from us to make that
happen?
And sometimes it's like hey,you know, instead of splitting
this hunt 50-50, how about maybewe take the whole 100%, but

(01:10:29):
we'll take care of all the newstands.
You don't have to worry aboutthe new stands, you don't have
to worry about the safety.
We'll take care of all that.
So it works out great.
And, like I said, all theserelationships with these lodges,
it's like we talk to them aboutanything we're thinking about
doing, um, and it's justballooned to where, like I said,
now other lodges see it andthey're like man, I don't want

(01:10:49):
to go out on my bear block.
I'd much rather have two youngguys go out and break their
backs and uh, because I meanit's, it's enough work baiting
the bears.
But like I got videos ofgetting that 450 pounder out of
the woods last year, that likeit takes everything you have.
And like even me at 32, I feellike I'm getting too old now to

(01:11:10):
uh to start getting some ofthese bears out of the woods.
It takes everything I have ohyeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Well, if I were you, kyle, you're building a
beautiful business model withthat I would make it mandatory
that if you partner up with alodge, that you go in and you do
all those stands, because it'simperative.
What you're doing is you'rebuilding an experience for the

(01:11:36):
guests.
You're building, and it's awonderful experience because you
understand that it's theexperience that's going to bring
them back.
And I would be very stern withlodges when you partner that.

(01:11:59):
This is our model, this is howwe do it and it works.
And now you've got the basebehind you where you've got two,
three, four different blocksand you can say talk to a lodge
owner X, he'll tell you andthat's just that you.
Because as soon as thatexperience dips, no matter what

(01:12:28):
you're going, what you'll losepeople, right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Now what you've built , that's unbelievable.
Now you got to maintain it andyou will be totally successful
at it and to that effect, it'sbeen nice, when we do talk with
these new lodges about takingover, that we've become so busy
now that you know there's awaiting list of guys who have
hunted with us and guys who wantto hunt with us.
So it's easy when a lodge comesto us and they have five tags,
let's say is one of the lodgesthat's been talking with us
lately it's like, okay, well,how many do you have sold?
And a lot of times it's likeone, two.
It's like, okay, well, how manydo you have sold?

(01:13:03):
And a lot of times it's likeone, two.
And it's like, okay, well, I'llsell all those tomorrow morning
.
And they're like, no, you won't.
And I'm like, no, yeah, we will.
But the thing is they're notgoing to hunt with you if you're
not hunting with us.
Like they, the clients are,whether it's, you know, we do
bear, we clients that come moosehunting, that we guide, that
they see the pictures of thebears and they're like, hey, we
want to book a bear hunt withyou.

(01:13:24):
And so then you know, then webooked them in for that.
So it's like the clientele listis long enough that for us it
works out.
Nice that I can tell a lodgelike hey, I'm going to fill your
hunt, I'm going to make youmore money than you were making
before anyways, and you don'thave to do any work, just take
the paycheck, make sure there'sa cabin ready for them, all the
stuff you were going to doanyway.
And it even is nice for us.

(01:13:45):
Like we've had guests that areat this lodge one year and then
they say, well, I want to trythis lodge, because you know
they'll go to the lodge inDonorwick that has crappies,
because, well, I want to catchsome crappies.
I'm tired of catching walleyesat this lodge.
Lodge and, yeah, a lot of itdoesn't even care because it's
like well, I'll just moveanother guest in there to fill
that spot, you're not losinganything.
Yeah, you know it's.
It's not like a competition forthese guests and it lets the

(01:14:08):
guests have a bit of a differentexperience.
Some of them end up figuringout man, I liked it better at
the first place and they go backto the first place, or maybe
they like it better at thesecond place, they stay at the
second place.
It makes no difference to usand it's just.
It's good for business and andit makes relationships work for
everything and now we have bearhunters that come up to the
lodges, that are just fishermen,so then they buy minnows off us

(01:14:29):
and we win again.
So it's like um therelationships speak for
themselves well, well, that goesone step further.

Speaker 4 (01:14:37):
I think you got one more little business we got to
throw in here, so these guys cancan buy bait from you.
They can go hunt a moose, theycan hunt a bear and at the same
time, they can look sexy,showing up to camp with a new
haircut.
They can, they can so tell mehow you let's talk about, just
briefly, about your barber andhow you got, because I think
that's crazy.
I never forget that.

(01:14:58):
I didn't even know that for thefirst two years I knew you and
then this year we're at Red LakeFishing.
You're like, oh yeah, I gottago back and cut some hair.
And I'm like, what do you meancut hair?
You're like, yeah, I'm a barber.
I'm like, what, what?
So yeah, tell the folks aboutthat and how that you know brief
story how that got going andhow they can get a hold of you
for that yeah, so I started thebarbershop when I was 19.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
I I was, it was 2012.
So I'd been guiding fishing,for that was my third year.
No, sorry, it was my secondseason fishing.
And then, like I said I would,at the end of the fishing season
I'd work enough construction toget on unemployment and then
help my dad out with the deerhunts that winter.
I was kind of realizing thatyou know, I was getting not old,

(01:15:41):
I guess at 19.
But I was realizing like I gotto make like a living, full time
here.
So I actually started applying.
I thought I wanted to be anelectrician.
So I applied, probably for Ithink it was like 28
applications I dropped off.
And I remember my 28thapplication I dropped it off it

(01:16:02):
was at Hoover Electric to theold man that ran it and I had it
on my resume and you can tellhow different it was back then.
He grabbed my resume and helooked at me and he said what do
you want me to do with this?
I said, oh, I was hoping maybeyou might need somebody and I'd
like to work up to be anelectrician, maybe get an
apprenticeship one day.
And he said, yeah, I don't knowwhat you think I'm going to do

(01:16:23):
with this.
And he threw it right in thegarbage right in front of me and
, like I said, this was like the28th guy, so it wasn't the
first time that I, you know,said no to.
So I'm kind of sitting there andI'm going man, what am I going
to do?
Like you know, I come from afamily of tradesmen, so I assume
that's what you had to do.
And well, my hair was long.
So I went down to the barbershop in Dryden.
I'd been going to JMAX for geez, at that point probably already

(01:16:46):
10 years.
And so I'm down in the dumps.
I'm 19.
I'm like man, no one's evergoing to hire me.
All they keep saying is youneed experience.
But how am I going to getexperience if I can't get hired?
You know, nowadays I could walkinto all 28 of those shops and
they'd be like man, you want towork, we'll hire you tomorrow.
Like, let's go.
Um, so I walk into J max and I'mnot kidding, there's like I
have to stand.

(01:17:07):
There's like eight people there.
So I'm like well, I'munemployed.
What am I going to do?
Like I might as well wait.
So I'm sitting there and in myhead I'm going 25, 50, 75, 100,
125, 150.
And while I'm there, he cutsall these guys hair in front of
me in about an hour.
So I'm going huh, that job Ijust applied for as an

(01:17:28):
electrician apprentice wouldhave been 18 bucks an hour.
I just watched Jason make 125bucks in the last hour and he's
got another 125 bucks sittinghere for the next hour.
So I get in the chair and I goJay, how the heck do I do this?
You know, like Jason uh, mostpeople don't know him like Jay
Mack.
He's famous.

(01:17:49):
At this point he was famous forlike if you go on Friday
afternoon, he's already at campfishing.
Like not a chance was heworking late on Friday and
everyone would always complainLike all he does is fish.
So I'm, this doesn't sound toobad.
So he tells me okay, you got todo this and you got to do that.
And he had actually gone tohairdressing school, which I
didn't want to do at all, but hewas on unemployment when he

(01:18:11):
went.
So they paid for it becauseit's like 15 grand, right.
And again, I'm a broke 19 yearold kid.
So I get home and I get on thecomputer and I find this barber
program in Hamilton.
I call the guy up and the guyhas no clue where Drive Ontario
is.
Like he thinks I'm calling fromSudbury, sault, ste Marie.
So I tell him, hey, I'd like tocome do this.

(01:18:32):
He goes.
This is the middle of March, hegoes well, you can start April
1st if you want.
Like we start everyone at thestart of the month and you're
going to have to be here forthree to six months, kind of
depending how quick you pick itup.
So I said OK.
So it was like I got my haircut that afternoon.
I talked to him and it was lessthan two weeks.
I'm on the way to Hamilton.
I'm going to learn how to be abarber and cut hair.

(01:18:55):
When I left for Hamilton I'm notshitting you it was April 1st.
Nost, march 31st it snowed twofeet.
So I wake up, I'm literallyliving on my buddy's couch.
Like I got, like I think my momand dad gave me $300 prepaid
visa and like that's what I got.

(01:19:16):
I got that and I'm getting.
Like I think I was still onunemployment insurance at the
time.
So I'm getting like 400 bucksevery two weeks or whatever, 400
bucks a week.
So I leave while there's twofeet of snow.
So I messaged the guy, thebarber, and I go hey, I'm
leaving my hometown.
I know I'm supposed to starttomorrow, but we got two feet of
snow, I don't know.

(01:19:36):
Like I was kind of going tojust get there in time to begin
with, I might have to start thenext day.
And I was kind of going to justget there in time to begin with
, I might have to start the nextday.
And he just goes yeah, noproblem, which I never thought
anything of.
Oh, so I get there and this is ablack barbershop in Hamilton so
I'm growing up in Dryden where,like the only black guy I knew
was my hockey coach and like, soI roll up and like man, it's

(01:19:57):
right down to, like I'm calling.
I'm going oh, okay, so this isAfrican-American hair.
And the barber goes man, I'venever been to Africa in my life.
Like, what do you meanAfrican-American?
He goes I'm from the Caribbean.
He goes it's black hair.
And so finally, after this goeson, I'm going what do you mean?
And he I'm not kidding, hegrabs my arm like this, and he
puts his arm beside it and hegoes it's okay, you can just say

(01:20:18):
, like you have white hair, Ihave black hair.
It's not racist.
I'm going, my God, I'm thinkinglike I'm going to get my ass
kicked because I'm just so outof my element.
So finally he says to me hegoes where the hell are you from
?
I'm like well, I told you I'mfrom Dryden.
He goes no like, show me.
So I show him on a map, right,and he goes holy shit, man, I

(01:20:38):
didn't realize like he's likewere you serious?
There was actually two feet ofsnow.
He thought I went out with mybuddies and got drunk and was
hung over and that's why I wasleaving.
I show him like a picture off ofFacebook of my buddy that he
had taken that morning.
Now, granted by this point,we're into, like you know, the
middle of April.
I've been golfing in Hamiltonsince I got there.

(01:21:00):
It's like 22 above.
So I show him a picture of mybuddy shoveling snow that
morning and he goes there's noway I'm going.
So I pull up the weather reportit's minus 17, you know, and
it's snowing.
And he goes you're from likethe bush, aren't you?
I'm like yeah man Like so then Itell him I'm like the town I
grew up in like I could neverimagine being in a black

(01:21:21):
barbershop getting trained likeI am now.
And I'm like now looking back.
I'm so glad I went that routebecause, like the barbershop
experience if you've ever beento a black barbershop is not
even like it.
You can't even call a whitebarbershop a barbershop compared
to like it's not the same thing.
So it made me completely changemy opinion on how I was going
to run my business, how I wasgoing to have the barbershop.

(01:21:43):
Um, and, and it was, to behonest, life-changing.
I still, I think every year Isend Sean Gibson's, his name, I
send him a thank you and, likehe, he'll never know how
thankful I am for theopportunity he gave me.
And and if it wasn't for thebarber business, I don't think I
would have been able to getinto everything I have, because
it's kind of given me the leewayof being able to get into

(01:22:04):
different things that you know,when I was growing up, I always
wanted to be a minnow trapper,but I just didn't think it was
something I could have done.
And the barbershop although Ihad to leave guiding to get into
barbering.
And I remember the last year ofdealing with these clients who
had known me for years at thefishing camp, telling them like,
hey, I'm going to be a barber,I won't be here next year.
They're like you're a barber,like you're a fishing guy, but

(01:22:26):
that's not the same thing.
How do you get over there?
I'm trying to explain thisthing.
Like, oh, I went to this barbershop and they're so busy that I
want to be like that, and uh,so that's basically how it
happened.
It was, it was a spur of themoment thing, and uh, where's?

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
your shop out of anyway, is it?

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
in your house, or is it?
In town uh, so I have a like Ibuilt a shop behind my house and
uh, so I have it behind myhouse.
I used to be downtown and thenthe price of rent was just so
expensive here that, uh, I knewmost of my clients would just
come to my house anyway.
So I built the shop perfect,moved in and it's been what's it
called?

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
so people can get a hold of you if they're up in the
Northwest and they want to.
It's Marble All Barbershop.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
I'm lucky I'm the only barber here.
So if you're in Sulukout andyou need a haircut and you look
up barber, I'm the only optionyou're going to get Nice.
And then I mean even the nameright Marble Eye.
I came up with the name.
Everything kind of circles backto just me wanting to be in the
outdoors and the shop has justas much taxidermy as behind my

(01:23:26):
back here.
So it kind of gets off thatatmosphere that you're in the
North right when you come in andand it's been it's been great.
That's how I met.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Rick, what's your buddy's shop's name?

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Jay Maxx Barber Shop.
That's in Dry.
Oh my, and Hamilton, that's a.
He's the barber center.
It's right downtown.
I think it's on the corner ofWellington and Maine.
I believe I've never.
I think I've never forgot that.
So I think that's what it is.
There's a Tim Horton straightacross from it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
Right on.
Well, if I'm ever down there,I'm going to go in there and get
my haircut and tell him thatKyle sent me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Yeah, ask for big Sean.
He's, he's the man, he's theman.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
Nice, nice.
Well, listen, kyle.
Um, thank you so much for beingon with us and and telling us
about, uh, about the North andwhat's going on with, uh, all of
your businesses.
Um, I'm, uh, I'm reallyimpressed with what you're doing

(01:24:22):
and wish you all of the luckand success in business in the
years to come.
Man, thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
No, thank you guys for having me.
It was a blast.
Always a good time to talkfishing and trapping and hunting
.
I'm always down for that.

Speaker 4 (01:24:39):
It's great to see you again, buddy.
I'm down and you folks don'tknow, but I'm actually sitting
right now looking at theCaribbean Sea right now, out my
window in a palm tree.
I'm down in Dominican right nowand I heard it was going to be
minus 40 in Canada, so I saidfuck that and I bailed.
So, I fly back on Sunday.
And when I get back up north,though, brother, we got to hook

(01:25:00):
up for an ice fish.
Let's go up Laker fishing, forsure.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
We should.
I haven't even looked at my icefishing stuff this year.
We went and we set some minnowtraps.

Speaker 4 (01:25:08):
I'll get you back up in that department, don't worry.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
Well, the ice was so bad there, like when we were
setting minnow traps at the, wasuh, the fact that people were
out there.
I was, like you know, we cutlike a three by three square in
the ice right to set the trapsand you usually you take your
ice pick and you kind of have topick it all into little cubes
and then you pull them out orpush them under.
Sometimes if the ice is reallygood, you can push the whole
block out.
Well, this year I'm with damonand I'm coming back from

(01:25:40):
chainsaw on the last hole and Igo hey, give me that pick, I'll
start picking.
And he goes.
He's leaned over in the thesleigh and he goes no, watch
this.
He grabs the pick and just kindof over his shoulder, whacks
the middle of this brick of iceand it's a three by three brick
and it just turned into like icecubes and it was all just white
.
And I looked at him.
I went you know I was prettyconfident when the chainsaw had

(01:26:00):
about 10 inches ice, but when Isee you break it like that, I'm
not as confident as I'm standinghere now.
And he goes no, I don't thinkI've ever seen ice break up like
that, either I go.
I think I'm going to leave myice fishing stuff in the shed
till after we get some coldweather.
So now that it's been so coldI'm going to have to look for it
so I can go fishing there yougo.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
Well, folks, if you're up there, be mindful of
that ice.
We've got a guy that's watchingit.
But uh, it should be good nowyeah, yeah, well, after minus 40
, sure, yeah, but thanks again,guys, and uh, folks, uh, head on
over as usual tofishingcanadaadacom and get in

(01:26:42):
on those free giveaways.
Garmin always has somethingfine and dandy on there for you.
Give it a look, get your namein there.
And thank you very much for allof the Diaries family out there
that's made it to this point,will, and I thank you
wholeheartedly for that andreach out, let us know what you

(01:27:06):
think.
Subscribe so you get thosenotifications when a new one
comes up, but they're alwaysWednesday at 6 am, as per Dino
back in the production booth,and I'd like to thank those guys
.
We don't do enough of that onthe Outdoor Journal Radio
Network.
And hey, folks, thanks again.

(01:27:31):
And thus brings us to theconclusion of another episode of
Diaries of a Lodge Owner.
Stories of the North.
I'm a good old boy, nevermeaning no harm.
I'll be all you ever saw, beenreeling in the hog since the day

(01:27:52):
I was born, bending my rock,stretching my line.

Speaker 4 (01:28:01):
Someday I might own a lodge, and that'd be fine.
I'll be making my way, the onlyway I know how.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Working hard and sharing the North with all of my
pals.

Speaker 6 (01:28:19):
Well, I'm a good old boy, I bought a lodge and live
my dream.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
And now I'm here talking about how life can be as
good as it seems, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:28:38):
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right.
Every Thursday, Angelo will beright here in your ears bringing
you a brand new episode ofOutdoor Journal Radio.
Hmm, Now, what are we going totalk about for two hours every
week?
Well, you know, there's goingto be a lot of fishing.

Speaker 5 (01:28:59):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.

Speaker 6 (01:29:04):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors, from athletes, All theother guys would go golfing Me
and Garth and Turk and all theRussians would go fishing.

Speaker 5 (01:29:17):
To scientists, but now that we're reforesting and
laying things free.

Speaker 7 (01:29:21):
it's the perfect transmission environment for
life To chefs, if any game isn'tcooked properly, marinated, you
will taste it.

Speaker 6 (01:29:30):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.

(01:30:08):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal use by
Indigenous peoples all over theglobe.
After nearly a decade of harvestuse, testimonials and research,

(01:30:31):
my skepticism has faded toobsession and I now spend my
life dedicated to improving thelives of others through natural
means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.

(01:30:51):
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people.
That will help you find youroutdoor passion and help you
live a life close to nature andunder the canopy.
Find Under the Canopy now onSpotify, apple Podcasts or

(01:31:11):
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 81: The Bait Man

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

Episode 81: The Bait Man

Stuff You Should Know