Episode 82: David MacLachlan and the Legendary Lodge 88

Join us on an unforgettable journey through Northern Ontario's rich tourism heritage as we sit down with David MacLachlan, a key figure in the region's tourism landscape. Discover the fascinating generational tales behind Lodge 88, a legacy of passion and perseverance founded by David's grandfather 88 miles west of Shaplow. Through personal stories and anecdotes, David offers insights into spending summers at the lodge, travelling there by train, and the unforgettable moments that have shaped its storied past.

From the adventurous chaos of fishing mishaps at Chaudiere Lodge to the transformative effects of a 19-day water fast, this episode weaves together humour, nostalgia, and personal growth. Hear about the dramatic and often humorous challenges faced at the lodge, including the intricate removal of a muskie hook and a guest's unexpected TV debut. David also shares his personal health journey, exploring the physical and mental trials of fasting, and its impact on type 2 diabetes and hypertension.

Explore the seasonal rhythms of managing a lodge and the economic potential of tourism in Northern Ontario. From the tranquillity of fall to strategies for boosting tourism receipts, listen as we discuss the evolving landscape of the region's angling and tourism industry. Learn about the importance of conservation practices amidst climate change and the innovative marketing tactics for Lodge 88. This episode is a celebration of outdoor living, filled with stories and insights into the heart of Ontario's tourism.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
I remember Virginia McKenzie and you know she was
with Tomogami Lake First Nation.
I think she said it best.
She said that Northern Ontariois a place you go to bring
balance back into your life, andit's so true.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
This week on the Outdoor Journal Radio podcast
Networks Diaries of a LodgeOwner Stories of the North Folks
.
Our guest today is an icon inthe Ontario tourism industry.
He is the owner of one of themost prestigious lodges in the
province and the owner of thebusiness that I aspire to be

(00:44):
when I own Chaudière.
But he not only owns thelegendary Lodge 88, he also is
heavily involved withDestination Northern Ontario and
champions for every northerntourism operation out there, and
we are extremely excited tointroduce to our Diaries family

(01:08):
Dave McLaughlin.
On this show we exploreDestination Northern Ontario,
the organization and what it'sall about, and how they impact
the tourism industry in theNorth as well.
We dive into the birth of Lodge88 and hear some of the amazing

(01:29):
generational stories associatedwith its creation, bringing it
to its pinnacle that we seetoday.
So if you love great stories ofthe North and listening and
learning about how hard peopleare working to maintain and
build a strong economy up in theNorth, this one's a winner.

(01:53):
So jump on that train, hit thebar car and enjoy as we steam up
to Lodge 88.
Here's our conversation withDave McLaughlin.
Welcome, folks, to anotherepisode of Diaries of a Lodge

(02:13):
Owner Stories of the North.
I'm here with my lovely co-host, willie the Oil man, and we are
really, really excited to haveon one of the kingpins actually

(02:34):
in the business and from back inmy show, the air days.
I run into this fine gentlemana few times and his name is Dave
McLaughlin.
And Dave, I know Will, and Iare extremely pleased to have
you on the show.
Welcome.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Well, thank you very much, and I don't know how much
of a kingpin I am, but anyways,we'll go with it.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
We're gonna find out, that's for sure.
Well, we'll go with it.
We're going to find out, that'sfor sure, yeah.
So listen, dave, I know youfrom the last decade.
We've had well, actually it'sprobably closer to two decades,

(03:26):
but we've had some crossings atdifferent things, and you are
the owner of Lodge 88.
And I don't really know yourstory and I would love to find
out, and, willie, I'm sure you'dlove to too.
So maybe give us the history onLodge 88, marmac, white River,

(03:53):
air, like, I mean, I think it'squite a family affair, is it not
?

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, we go back quite some time.
We think that this summer isgoing to be our 67th season, wow
.
So, going back, you know, to mygrandfather's time, and you
know we got to spend time at thelodge as kids and you know it
was a great escape.
You know when my.

(04:21):
You know when June rolledaround, you know when my.
You know when June rolledaround, and back in those days
in the 60s and 70s, we wouldtravel by trunks not suitcases
with wheels on them, but trunksand the trunks would come out
and my mom would start packingwith our summer clothes and
games and all the stuff that wewere going to need for the

(04:42):
summer.
And you know we knew it was theschool year was going to end
and then either we'd drive up orsometimes, you know, the CP
Express would come and pick upthe truck and then, you know we
could take the train right fromthe West Toronto Station and get
off at the lodge the nextmorning.
And you know we really enjoyedit.

(05:05):
But my grandfather got the ideafor the lodge, you know, through
his second wife and her familyand her sister and her sister's
husband were the originalbuilders and owners of Camp La
Calche, down the railway lineabout, oh, probably about 20, 22
, 25 miles away on WabatogushiLake, and that's how they got

(05:29):
the idea and we're thinking itwas 1957.
Nobody wrote anything down andof course everybody's you know,
long gone now.
So we're just kind of graspingat straws here, I'm grasping at
straws here, and so my granddadand his second wife, who we were

(05:51):
not allowed to call grandma, wecalled her Auntie Barbie, they
took the train to the bottom ofthe Sanagi Lake at mile 88.
And'd laugh at me and on theEuropean, you know, trade show
circuit, because I told themit's a no, it's the same train.
And I said no, literally it'sthe same train we have today.

(06:14):
And and he got off the trainwith a tent and a canoe and
literally they, they paddled amile up the lake and saw this
hill and he said that's where hewas going to build a lodge.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Wow, you've got to be kidding me.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, so from there he had to go and purchase the
property.
Thank goodness it was apurchase, not a land use permit.
He had to pull some strings atQueen's Park apparently to get
the property.
The, the local M&R, which wasbased on White River at the time
, were were trying to, you know,get him to switch lakes to

(06:49):
Fungus Lake, which is on theTrans-Canada Highway, which he
knew.
But he says he stuck to hisguns and was able to purchase
close to four acres there on onthe hill we're almost surrounded
by water and and then they wereback the next year to start
start building.
So we think the next year tostart building.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
So we think the first year they actually had guests
was 1959.
Wow, and Dave, just for all theDiaries listeners out there.
So whereabouts is the traincome from?
Whereabouts is your facilityrelative to the train?

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, we're 88 miles west of Shaplow on the Canadian
Pacific Railway.
So that's where the the 88 camein and, uh, you know not the
most original name for the lodge.
So it goes to show it doesn'tmatter what you call yourself,
you can, uh you can besuccessful and make a career out
of it.
So back in those days it wasCamp 88, then it was Camp 88

(07:42):
Outfitters and then Camp 88Lodge, and when we went back in
the early 2000s to rebuild wedecided to go with Lodge 88.
So you know, we're 36 air milesnortheast of Wawa, 34 air miles
southeast of White River and 88miles west of Shaplow on the

(08:05):
train.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
That's very cool.
Can you imagine what it wouldhave been like back then to
build?
I mean, I guess the train couldhave dropped supplies off in
the 50s at mile marker 88.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah.
Back in those days they had wavefreights and were able to bring
in building supplies.
And when we were tearing downthe cabins to replace them, a
lot of stuff came from Eaton'sand Simpson's.
We had the tags on the backCame CP Express.
He had some friends at therailway that used to haul stuff

(08:43):
up on the little flat carsbehind those little uh, I don't
even know what you call thosespeedster things.
Uh, you know a few storiesabout them coming around in a
freight train coming and havingto uh to jump.
But uh, he was from world warii.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
So he was no stranger to you can't say people are
jumping on trains and not tellus some stories here.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, I wasn't there so I can't verify, but I
understand that's where his badshoulder came from.
Was an incident coming aroundthe bend with one of those
speeders and having to just bailout of it?

Speaker 2 (09:20):
And then have that freight train runner down.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, yeah, oh, my God, he brought bulldozers in.
A lot of uh at the time wouldhave been korean uh war surplus
army equipment, so dieselgenerators we.
He had an old willie's uh jeepin there um that we used to bomb
around on as kids a hay wagonfor, for he had that bulldozer

(09:45):
and was able to do somelandscaping.
He did a trail from the railwayright to the lodge.
Apparently the bulldozer gotstuck on the railroad tracks
once and got hit by the trainand it's still sitting about
half a mile down the road.
It hasn't moved since themid-1970s and it's still there,

(10:07):
right now it's still there.
It's still there.
There's an old pickup truck inthe back.
A railroad engineer heard aboutthe Jeep and he bought a Jeep
and he came in looking for parts.
So we pulled the Jeep out tothe train and they picked it up
and he took it for parts.
So it was kind of cool to seethat thing going down the down

(10:27):
the trail again.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I've been a long time since we had seen that yeah,
yeah, those are fantasticstories, like I mean, I just uh
it, uh, like I know the historyof chaudiere fairly well and uh,
just the way that, um, that uh,and Chaudiere um started as a,

(10:49):
um, as a, as a camp.
It was actually called um, um,uh, the Pennsylvania club and
across from from us it was theOhio club, but um, uh, that was
1909.
And just to hear the stories of, like the, we were lucky enough

(11:17):
that the owner of Chaudiere,who at the time renamed it from
Mohawk Lodge to Chaudiere Lodge,sent a letter to Merle Anderson
in Florida who was the originalowner of the place, and Merle
was a doctor and he wrote backto the owner at that time and

(11:38):
this was in the early 40sexplaining the three most
significant doctorings that hedid while he was there.
Because on the Upper FrenchRiver at that time there was not
many doctors kicking around andeverybody knew he was a doctor

(12:00):
from the natives on the DokeeseReserve and anyway, he tells a
story about and they had tocanoe from Highway 69 or come
across Lake Nipissing, so thetrek to get in there was
ridiculous.
And the one story he tells isabout a father and a son who

(12:24):
were on a canoe trip and by thetime they got to the upper
French River in this canoe andgot to Doc Anderson, the kid was
eaten alive and the way that hespoke was even different.
But he said he was eaten aliveand out of his wits and the

(12:50):
poison from all of the bug biteshe was unconscious for like two
days at the lodge and that'sfrom the bugs back then.
And then another story tellsabout a native fellow who got a
muskie hook buried in his wristand he said buried to the

(13:11):
ribbons and he cut that out.
So those days, stories fromthose days, are so interesting
to me, especially in thisindustry.
So thank you very much forthose that.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Those are, those are awesome yeah, there's no
shortage of fish hook stories.
I know that's just a given.
There's, you know, a new, a newone or two every season.
Oh yeah, you know what?

Speaker 4 (13:39):
I'm a rookie in this game and I'm finding out that
every season right now it's thisyear I the worst one.
You know and all my tournamentfishing and guiding.
This is the worst one I've everseen is I had a, a lady, uh,
probably early 40s.
Her and her daughter werefishing together and they were
casting rattle traps forsmallies and I guess on a back

(14:00):
cast the daughter.
The daughter grabbed the mom'shand and she had both trebles on
her middle finger and her ringfinger.
The trebles were buried in thenail bed.
So she comes back to the lodgeand I'm looking at it and I'm
like I can't push it through.
So it's under the nail.
I'm like I can't push thisthing through.

(14:22):
There's nothing else.
You're going to have to go getit cut out right.
So we I ended up numbing it forher and sent her to red lake
and away she went.
But that was the worst one I'veseen and I'm finding out over
these short few years here,david, that that is a real thing
for sure yeah, you gottapractice that, practice the hook
removal.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
I think the funniest thing I've ever seen.
This was about 20 years ago andactually Babe Winkleman was at
the lodge shooting an episodeand there was a guy there and
he's living down in Florida nowand he ended up getting a hook,
but right in the finger, right,and so, anyways, it was embedded

(15:04):
pretty good and, uh, we had afull camp and uh, so this was
the highlight of the evening was, uh, the operation to take this
hook out, out in the diningroom under the lights, and uh,
we had a dentist, um, that wasgoing to perform the surgery.
Um, everybody, you know, wetook a vote and figured he was
the best one and they wanted astraight razor and the, the cook

(15:28):
, had a straight razor.
So, anyways, they had this guyliquored up and uh, gonna start,
and they, they took thestraight razor out and the
dentist thought, well, he passedout and that was it for him.
And uh, so, anyways, theymanaged to get the hook out and
then they had the you know, thejock's finger wrapped up.
But is this funny?

(15:49):
Now, if you go back and watchthe episode, you can see it.
He's, you know, he's goingaround, you know waving to
people and with his finger inthe air with a big bandage on it
, right in the babe winklemanshow nice, nice.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, I, I can't.
I would be remiss if I didn'ttell you guys this story.
This will be my last hook storyand this was one of the ones
that I couldn't deal with.
But I had a wonderful couplefrom Ohio somewhere in that
neighborhood and and they owned,um, it's like a hostess, um,

(16:26):
like a potato chips.
But they didn't do potato chips, they did pork rinds, you know,
like those puffy pork rinds.
Anyway, they wanted to, uh, togo musky fishing and um, I, I
put, um, I put the pair of them,with my guide, marcel, and uh,
mars is probably he'd be, oh, hewould have been in his mid 50s

(16:48):
at the time, and so off they go,and a beautiful day.
And then I'm sitting up in theoffice and from where I, from my
office, I was on the secondfloor of the lodge and I had a
great view of the dock and I sawMars' boat coming in and it was

(17:11):
about an hour and a half early,about 3.30, 3 o'clock in the
afternoon.
I thought, geez, that's realweird.
And not only that, he come inand didn't come off of plane
until he was about I don't knowlike 20 yards from the dock,
coming in hot, which was, ohyeah, which was very unusual.

(17:32):
So I went down and I'm walkingto the dock and I look in the
boat and the three of them aresitting there and the lady, she
was in tears, like upset, likeyou know, and she said to me I

(17:54):
might've killed him and I'm likewhat.
And her husband was sittingright there and I didn't notice,
but he and when I looked at himit looked like you know the,
the natives.
They had like the feather, youknow no cartoons.
Well, they had marcel, had hissock wrapped and tied right

(18:17):
around his head and there was adouble 10 bucktail sticking
straight up the back of his head, right up in the air, and it
was tied like the sock had tiedthis big, like I say, double 10
bucktail.
And I remember it was pink andI said what's going on?

(18:42):
And the gentleman looked at meand says I'm fine, I'm okay, and
his wife is still in hystericsand I'm like, oh my God, get out
of the boat, let me have a lookat this.
Well, what happened was shecome back in a backswing and
caught him right in the back ofthe neck, at the base of the
skull, and buried one of thosetroubles right into the back of

(19:06):
his neck and I looked at it andI said, yeah, this is way above
my pay grade, brother.
Oh yeah, so we had to.
I we took them over and and sentthem to sturgeon falls and they
and they got it out.
But oh my god, that poor girlwas traumatized.

(19:26):
She didn't even get in a boatfor the rest of the week.
But, oh yeah, I was like yeah,I'm pretty sure if you're not
paralyzed right now, you'regoing to be okay.
But yeah, it was buried rightin there, man, wow.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
I've seen one in the head once and that was guiding,
but it wasn't a bad one likethat.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
It was a little flesh wound yeah, like I mean, well,
when you're a like we are or wewere, it's uh, you're always
dealing with that stuff.
But yeah, so listen, tell me alittle bit about, um, uh, about
the lake esnagami and yourfamily operation.
Like, at one time do you haveflyout lakes?

(20:12):
And I heard rumor that at onetime you may have had control
over the most fly-ins in theprovince.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, and probably still pretty close.
We turned a few outposts backin.
So my granddad started out at88, and he wasn't happy with
just having the lodge so he hadto have outposts at the north
end of the lake and on a coupleother lakes, tent camps and
cabins and all that stuff.

(20:45):
So that's kind of how we got tostart in the uh, in the uh
outpost uh business.
Um, my dad in uh in the early70s went to marmac so we we took
over marmac, which was calledswanson at the time, and and
both these lodges are on esnagilake which, you're right, it was
called esnagami if you look atthe maps.
Until sometime in the in thelate 50s it was always called

(21:08):
Esnagami and then somehow thename got changed to Esnagi and
so that lake is 27 miles longand then we had a couple of
lakes that you could walk into.
In 86, we bought the air service.
We bought White River AirService, the main White River
base and the outposts that camealong with that, with the Duluth

(21:28):
family, and the gentleman thatwe bought it from also had some
outposts of his own that wereincluded.
And then man Air out inManitowoc.
We ended up taking that over.
I'm not sure what the year wasand a few more outposts.
So at one time we had 57locations and we would use them
all not for fishing but formoose hunting.

(21:50):
That you know big, big moosehunt back in the day.
So you know when the DeLuceswere in White River they'd fly
in 550 moose hunters in the fall.
You know our first couple ofyears we did 350.
And of course you know that'schanged a lot.
So we turned over, you know,back to them in our, I think
probably about 12 outpostssometime, maybe about 10 or 15

(22:12):
years ago, when they raised therates on them.
When they were $75 to $100, itdidn't cost much to sit on them,
but when they were $900, ifthey weren't bringing some money
in it really wasn't worthwhile100%.
Yeah, so my brother, dannyy, myyoungest brother, he runs the
air service.
Uh, my sister is at marmac andthen, uh, and then terry and I

(22:38):
are down at 88 and I haveanother brother that's two years
younger than me and he fliesfor the m&r.
Uh, so in his spare time hegoes and gives danny a hand up
at the airbase as well.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
That's awesome, buddy .
That's awesome.
You know what I really think,and I think I told you this,
david, when we first met, justso the Diaries family out there
knows, you know, me and Davehave just met each other over
like I don't know, maybe thepast eight months, 10 months,
yeah, yeah, this spring we wereintroduced by a beautiful lady
named heather gropp.

(23:11):
Um heather reached out to me.
Actually I was with steve um atthe fish and canada show.
I was doing a podcast live withhim and ang and and uh and uh.
That night she had emailed me,you know, saying she thought it
might be a good fit for uh, fora team that you're on and a
board of directors you're on,and that's how we connected and
you know I'm, I was, I wasactually blown away, um, because

(23:34):
I've watched you on tv, david,you don't know this, but since I
was, since I've been watchingang, you know, since I was five
years old, you know, and and uh,I've always thought of your
place as a staple.
That's something I would lookforward to, you know, and a
passion and a drive forsomething that I wanted in my

(23:58):
future, and that was seeing thatwhen I would see you on that TV
and when I saw the guys comingin on the train or flying in
with White River Air, I was likethis is such a cool lifestyle
and your lodges are beautiful,your boats, the fishing, and I
remember seeing you on that TVgoing.
You know, I want to be that guyone day.

(24:18):
And then Heather Groffintroduces us and, sure enough,
a few months later we're sittingthere having breakfast at the
Days Inn, right, and I waspretty honoured and I still am
to have met you.
So thanks for telling us thesestories.
It's awesome.
I was just telling the folksthere, stevie, about the, about
the, how me and Dave met.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
So everybody knows I just hadto take a quick break.
You know I'm and Dave, you'renot aware, but I'm on a water
fast.
So whenever you're trying toget nine liters of water into
you a day, you got to take aleak every once in a while.

(25:02):
Oh boy, oh yeah, I'm on day 19.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
He should send you out to California for those
fires.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Oh yeah, but you know I'd be like Big Joe Mufferaw.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
There was a reason I brought that up.
I thought everyone would loveto know about this thing that
you're on.
It's pretty insane.
Why don't you talk about it?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Noah, and I talked about it a little bit too.
But yeah, just to give you alittle history, dave, it's just
a fast.
I'm drinking water.
I'm putting about a teaspoon,teaspoon and a half of Grey

(25:42):
Celtic salt between nine youknow, one liter jars of water.
Nine you know one liter jars ofwater, a little bit of fresh
squeezed lemon juice and cayennepepper, and then supplementing
with things to support my bodylike magnesium, potassium,
ubiquinol for my heart and stufflike that.

(26:03):
But yeah, I've been 19 dayswithout food.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Oh, wow, wow.
How are you feeling?

Speaker 2 (26:10):
I feel good.
It's like, I mean, if you canbreak through the first, you
know, four days, a lot of thosecravings and a lot of that stuff
goes away.
And you know you've got like toget away from sugar and a lot
of the of of the, the, the, thatstuff.

(26:32):
You go through withdrawal LikeI had.
I had headaches a little bitand you know a little uneasy
feeling and and uh.
But once you get through thethose four days, five days, days

(26:54):
, five days it's like a lightgoes on.
You feel so much better.
And now, like I've never gonethis far I've done 10-day fasts
in the past, but this one's along one, this one's a long one.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, that's a long time 19 days.
Well, good luck to you, and Iguess you're trying to lose some
weight.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Well, it's a combination of losing weight I'm
type 2 diabetic and trying toget that straightened around and
a little bit hypertension.
And you know, the blood sugarcome right under control after
about day four.
Oh wow, yeah, although that'sbecause there's no food going in

(27:31):
, right.
Yeah, but it'll be interestingto see how my blood sugar reacts
when I go back on, when I starteating again.
Yeah, and again, like I mean,the length of this one is more
to try and break addictions.
And not only did I go off food,there's no alcohol, no nicotine

(27:56):
, no caffeine, nothing, right.
So it's kind of to breakaddiction as well.
To break addiction as well,cause, you know, after 35, 40,

(28:16):
35 years of coffee and 30 yearsof smoking cigars off and on,
and you, you kind of build some,you you take on some bad habits
.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, no, we all have .
And uh, at some point thechickens come home to roost day
for all of us.
You know I'll been there, youknow, with with health issues
and stuff, myself included, anduh, you know I could stand to
lose, like, uh, you know, thefive pounds of christmas from
the last 25 christmas yeah, Iknow it, I know it, like I mean

(28:48):
in.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Uh, in 19 days.
I haven't quite done the math,but I started at 234 pounds-ish,
33 and a half, and I weighed inat 205 this morning.
Oh, wow, well, good for you,good for you, yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, I haven't been this light since high school
yeah, yeah, I haven't been thislate since high school, wow, wow
, well, I've been.
We've been pulling out some oldpictures, you know, from 20, 30
years ago, and I'm looking atmyself and thinking, holy smokes
, you know well, you know whathappened.
Well, we know what happened, um, but any, anyways, yeah, so you
know we're, we're gonna be, uh,getting ready to try to do
something about, uh, about thisCause, uh, you know, uh, as you

(29:29):
get older, it, uh, it, uh, it,it, it does, uh, it does, um,
you know, impact what you'reable to do.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, yeah, and that's uh, that's uh.
That's kind of where I'm at.
You know what I mean.
Like I'm, I'm, I'm 49 now, soyou know, my eyes are starting
to.
I have to wear glasses now andyou know, you just start
thinking, if I want to make itto see my grandchildren and live

(30:00):
a good long life, I betterstart getting her under control
now.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, start getting her under control now.
Yeah, well, I'm 61.
And you know, I'm about thesame age as my granddad was when
he left the lodge, and so I'vebeen telling people that but
he's got a few years left.
But yeah, no, it's just likeone day you blink and like you

(30:26):
know how did this?

Speaker 2 (30:26):
happen?
I know Speaking of that now,would you because you've been in
this business for so long?
Is that actually aconsideration for you?
Like I was in and out, I was infor a decade and then I was out
.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Well see, we're not as smart as you.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Steve, then I was out .
Well see, we're not as smart asyou, Steve.
Hey, listen, if it wasn't formy wife and kids not actually
being up there with me I'd stillbe in, right, yeah, but we
don't know any better.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
I mean, we grew up in it, that's right.
We always said we're almostlike farmers, right, like in the
spring, when it starts to warmup and the ice, like you just
get that itch to to get in thebush and and get going, right,
get the planes out and and andthe boats and, um, you know,
probably you know, if we werejust about business and money,

(31:21):
you know you would have built itup and sold it and moved on to
something else.
But uh, it's, uh, it's been agreat lifestyle for all of us.
All us kids are still in thebusiness.
I say kids now as a seniorcitizen, but no, it wouldn't

(31:42):
change it for anything.
Looking back, and we weretalking when we're at the lodge,
that's where I feel at home,like you know, like every summer
of your life you feel more athome.
I sleep better there than inany house that we've owned.
Or you know, like you know justthe memories you know, like,

(32:04):
like I said, of yourgrandparents, your grand, you
know great grandparents, yourparents and your siblings.
Yeah, you get to understand,you know, when people maybe live
in a family home or on land formulti-generations.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Yeah.
You know, dave, what you saidthere was.
It's a lifestyle.
You know, dave, what you saidthere was.
It's a lifestyle and you knowyou are absolutely right and
it's something I always heardand always known.
But now I really realize it.
You know, with me and Kristaand the family at Nordic, where

(32:49):
we are, it's not a businessaspect for you, but it's it's
all about your family and yourfriends being there and that
comfortability of you creatingthat for your future and being
one with the with nature andyour aspect and your element.
And you know and and I reallyhave grown into that and I've
and it's's.
It's actually a debate that meand my partner have quite a bit.

(33:10):
Um, he's, as everyone knows,you know Dave is a, he's a very
six.
Dave Johnson, my partner, he'sa very successful, uh, hotel man
.
You know it's.
You know, at one time in in theworld he was the big swinging
dick in hotels worldwide and uh,and and we look at that as a
different thing.
It's, it's something we look atdifferent.

(33:31):
It was.
I know it's a lifestyle and Iand I feel it and see it and
he's all about the business,because that's his business,
right, and and to me, I look ata situation like these lodges
now, from the time that thoseguests are at your booth or they
call steve nitzwicky at atchaudiere or they reserve

(33:53):
through will at nordic.
You know it's a personalconnection the whole way.
Those people are coming upthere too.
They're gonna make memorieswith their wife or their
grandfather or their brother and, and no matter how small or how
big, they're going to remembera lot of them and there are
points that are going to stickout in their life, and that's

(34:16):
not to me.
That's what a lodge is, youknow.
That is the relevance of thatbusiness, and I'd love to hear
you say that it's not just anemotionless box that you know
one day someone checks in andone day someone checks out it's.
It's leaving memories for alifetime, for you and for the
guest absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
When you're in the wilds of northwestern ontario,
you need gear you can trust anda team that's got your back.
That's Lakeside Marine in RedLake, ontario Family owned since
1988.
They're your go-to pro campdealer, built for the north,
from Yamaha boats and motors toeverything in between.

(35:06):
We don't just sell you gear, westand behind it.
Lakeside Marine Rugged ReliableReady.

Speaker 7 (35:26):
Back in 2016,.
Frank and I had a vision toamass the single largest
database of muskie anglingeducation material anywhere in
the world.

Speaker 5 (35:35):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community and share itwith passionate anglers just
like you.

Speaker 7 (35:41):
Thus the Ugly Pike podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North
America.

Speaker 5 (35:48):
Step into the world of angling adventures and
embrace the thrill of the catchwith the Ugly Pike Podcast.
Join us on our quest tounderstand what makes us
different as anglers and touncover what it takes to go
after the infamous fish of10,000 casts.

Speaker 7 (36:02):
The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing.
It's about creating atight-knit community of
passionate anglers who share thesame love for the sport.
Through laughter, throughcamaraderie and an unwavering
spirit of adventure.
This podcast will bring peopletogether.

Speaker 5 (36:17):
Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our
angling adventures.
Tight lines everyone.

Speaker 7 (36:22):
Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Dave, I would just like to back up a touch when you
were talking about lookingforward to the spring, and take
us to that and tell us how youone of the whether it's a memory
, or how you feel or how youfelt in the past, when you're
opening and that jovial feelingand for me and you can take it
to the fall too because for me,as an owner, I had that same

(37:02):
feeling twice in a year when wewere gearing up to open, and we
were in a year when we weregearing up to open and we were
when we were gearing down toclose, right, because for me, my
family wasn't there the wholetime and and the the season I

(37:24):
was always ready to shut it downand have a break.
But I don't take us back andtell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, well, it changes every year depending on
the weather and you know if it'san early ice out, a late ice
out, you know if you know therestill might be some snow on the
ground.
And you know, we used to, youknow even as, even as kids, we
used to do school bycorrespondence, so we'd get out
of school early and go in withcorrespondence.
So we got to experience thespring every year and some years

(38:00):
you'd have to break ice withthat and haul stuff to a certain
point and then overland andback in the boat and up again
and haul it down the trail, youknow, into Maramak.
But it's really spring to me isdifferent, because it's just a
busy time of year, it's just go,go, go.
And you know, now spring is alittle different for me because
of course I have this other job.

(38:20):
So I usually take some time offto go in on the first run and
you know, you know get help, getthings going and then come back
out.
Then my job turns into more of,you know, rounding up supplies
and hauling them up and puttingthem on a train or a plane.
And we've got, we've been lucky, we've got some really good

(38:42):
staff who've been with us for anumber of years.
So you, you know, you can justlet the ladies do their thing
and like in the kitchen and thecabins and the laundry and the
guys on the dock.
We shifted from the cedar boats, you know, about 10 years ago,
to the luns, so we don't havetwo weeks of torture sanding
boats.
Oh my God, that was just anendurance mission, hallelujah.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
You know, you just prayed you were going to have
good weather to get it done.
Hallelujah, that was just anendurance mission.
Hallelujah, I'm on show herewith like 10 of them.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, you just prayed you were going to have good
weather to get it done right, ohfor sure, and stuff.
So spring is a little different.
You might have three days toopen up, or you might have 10
days or two weeks, but it'salways, you know, usually it's,
it's, it's, it's, it's enjoyablebecause the weather's turned.

(39:33):
I mean, I remember, like Idon't know if it was 2018 we
went in on the train, we thoughtwe'd be smart and go in on the
train and, um, you know, therewasn't much snow on the highway
and the railway and we got offthe train and even at the
landing there wasn't much.
Then we looked down the trailto the lodge and it was like,
still waist, deep in snow.
So here we are going in, walkingin this with two chihuahuas and

(39:55):
uh, to the lodge, and we gotthe six-wheeler out and, uh, you
know, uh, you know, I, I thinknormally we would go in in the
morning and by lunchtime thediesel would be going, we'd have
power early afternoon, we'dhave water, at least, to the
lodge and stuff.
Um, this year I think it wasabout 10 o'clock and of course

(40:15):
the days are longer it was nineor ten and we've.
We had hauled the last load infrom the train.
We hadn't even anything else.
So, uh, we just uh moved in thatI think that was the worst year
that we ever had.
But, like you, like you said,like just two times a year
spring and fall.
Fall is different for us.
Yeah, there's a lot of work toclosing the place up, but, uh,

(40:38):
that's when we really enjoy itand, um, you know they, they
literally have to, uh, you knowthey have to drag me out in the
fall.
It is just such a peaceful timeand so we try to stay.
For, you know, after the lastguests go for at least three

(40:59):
weeks Not last year, the yearbefore we actually stayed we
came out on October 31st, whichis almost when my granddad would
come out between the 1st and15th of November every year, and
you know it was just a greattime.
You know it was just nice, butyou know it was just a great
time.
You know it was just nice, butyou know we're getting ourselves
set up more and that we couldstay longer.
And now we're talking aboutmaybe, you know, being able to
go in and spend some time in thewinter.
Oh, nice.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Very cool.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
So Terry looks after the lodge primarily yes, yes,
that's, he is, he's, he doesdoes everything from the
reservations to the schedulingand the maintenance and the
hiring of the staff and, like Isaid, my role is mainly around
just rounding up supplies andhauling them up and then
covering for holidays whenpeople come out in the
summertime.

(41:51):
Yeah because you're very busywith Destination Northern
Ontario.
Yeah, so I'm the executivedirector with that, and so we're
an organization that wasbasically created by the
Ministry of Tourism in Ontarioto grow tourism in the north,
and we receive funding from themand some other ministries.
I was just down in Torontotrying to find some more money.

(42:14):
Good for you.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Hopefully you're successful.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Well, I think we're getting there.
You know like it takes a whileright to get the messages out,
but I think, you know, with allthe talk, with the tariffs and
everything right now, I thinkthere's a real understanding in
government that tourism is oneof the sectors that shows
promise in terms of growth andmaybe being able to, you know,
to offer some employment to someaffected people, but certainly

(42:42):
able to grow.
And for sure, you know, withinNorthern Ontario we've got lots
of room to grow.
so we do Absolutely, and it's abeautiful place on earth, like I
mean it is.
It is gorgeous.
You know, yeah, I always saidthere's two things.
So one, um, northern ontario,like there's destinations around

(43:04):
the world that actually, uh,form an emotional people, form
an emotional bond with it, andnorthern ontario is one of those
destinations.
Anyone that comes to northernontario, um guaranteed they they
will be back um and back backfor for life.
And the other thing I said wasthat anyone who has moved from
the south to northern ontariothey're worse than a reformed

(43:26):
smoker in terms of you know whatthey feel about the North and
defending our interests, and Iguess my family kind of falls
into that category.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Yeah, oh, for sure.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
You do a, can you tell us a little bit more about
destination uh, northern ontario, if you don't mind?
Just tell us a little bit aboutwhat they're, what they do and
what they're into right now andand what you're, uh, what you're
up to there yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
So you know, if you want to think about it, we've
done a lot of developmental workover the last decade, um, in
terms of talking to the eastcoast.
So you know I the way I explainit is, we've all seen the
Newfoundland and Labrador ads onTV and everyone says if we
could do those, we'd be, youknow, that'd be perfect.
Well, they did a lot of workbefore that and understanding
that, you know a lot of theirtourism came to be at the time

(44:21):
of the collapse of the fisheryand trying to reskill and
retrain people into the tourismindustry.
So we've brought a lot of theirdevelopment programs to
Northern Ontario.
So you know we've done verywell over the years in terms of
what we call the Avid products.
So Northern Ontario is thenumber one destination in Canada

(44:42):
, probably North America, forangling.
You know our claim to fame isthe fishery and being close to
market.
So we're not an exotic, sopeople can come here, you know,
multiple times in one season oryou know, year after year, so we
don't have to go out and getnew business every year.
Um, and then, of course, youknow we have the the great, uh,

(45:05):
you know, iconic scenery.
So you know we we say it'scanada's from coast to coast to
coast to coast, because we'vegot the the inland coast and um.
So that's what we've been doingand where we're.
Where we're trying to go rightnow is um to replicate what
newfoundland and labrador did.
So we feel um, you know, we wecall like the angling and those

(45:29):
avids are defend and maintainmarkets and then we have our new
markets which are inspire andgrow.
So this is more around generalleisure, where we do
underperform and that representsa big growth potential to us.
So we're trying to scrapetogether a war chest that we can
go out and replicate theadvertising that Newfoundland
and Labrador did.

(45:50):
They were able to grow theirtourism industry to $1.2 billion
in tourism receipts.
We're starting at $2.5 billion.
We're in a much better position.
We're closer to market.
We're not dependent on airlift.
We're 94% people driving in and, like I said, we know we'll do
a better job at retaining, or atattracting and retaining

(46:10):
visitors where newfoundland hasto go.
They're a bucket listdestination.
They have to get 90 of theirbusiness new every year and
that's that's a real tough uhprospect.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
That's a big number, though they put up for for
having to do that.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
That's fantastic yeah , yeah, no, for sure Wow.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
I was just going to say.
As a lodge owner, you know howdifficult or impossible it would
be to run a business and havinga 90% turnover you would never
do it.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
It's not sustainable.
It's just not sustainable.
Yeah, so we want to growtourism receipts by at least
another billion dollars to about10 of the provincial average
and uh, you know that'llgenerate over 350 million
dollars every year for in taxrevenues for three levels of
government and provide anadditional 14 000 full-time jobs

(47:03):
in in uh in northern ontariogood paying jobs in local
communities.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Wow, that's awesome.
And then, when you were talkingabout areas that you're
underperforming right now,you're talking like ecotourism
and like different attractions.
Say, I know the Aurora is atough one unless you're up
Canora Way and even at that, butlike stargazing and different

(47:31):
things, maybe talk a little bitabout what some of those other
than your staples, which is thefishery and hunting what are
some of those things that you'reworking to build on?

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, so, yeah, that's exactly what we
underperform.
So the type of tourism thatdrives, you know, almost every
other destination in the worldwe underperform.
So we have a huge opportunityin front of us and we just call
it like the general leisure,right.
So these are people who arecoming up, you know, basically
they've got some time on theirhands looking for something to
do.

(48:08):
So, whether it's, you know,finding a beach, or you know,
basically they've got some timeon their hands looking for
something to do.
So, whether it's, you know,finding a beach, or you know, as
you said, you know northernskies, you know the stars, you
know some Wolf howls, yeah, yeah, just not, you know, to the
same intensity as maybe someonethat's coming up and doing a
canoe trip or, you know, afishing trip.

(48:29):
You know just reallyexperiencing.
You know what we have, but in amore leisurely way and in a way
that people move around.
And you know we're starting tosee, you know, some of that
bigger resort development.
So I don't know if you're awareof what's going on down in
Killarney with KillarneyMountain Lodge.

(48:50):
You know they've done someamazing work there.
You know a little bit more,maybe in the Muskoka frame of
mind, but you know, I believethey're looking at you know,
getting to the point of having300 rooms.
They just a couple of years agobuilt the conference center and
the restaurant there.
It's the largest log conferencecenter in the world and you

(49:14):
know these types of things.
You know that we can bring somepeople in and you know, have
them come and, you know, spend aweek with us or maybe move
around and experience.
You know what Northern Ontariois.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Well, and I think a lot of younger families like I
know that when I had chaudiereand most of the Diaries family
know that I was within afour-hour drive from the GTA, so
I was fairly close to the GTA.
But a lot of young familieswould come and I always

(49:53):
struggled with the internet andwith Wi-Fi because I didn't.
I always had it at the mainlodge.
But then, you know, some peoplewould say, oh, you should have
it in the cottages.
People would say, oh, youshould have it in the cottages.
But I ultimately decided not tohave Wi-Fi in the cottages and

(50:14):
there's no cell service.
There was no cell service whereI was at at that time and
people loved to bring their kidsand have them unplugged.
And more and more today I thinkthat not just kids but couples
and all people of all ages needa little bit of time where

(50:40):
they're maybe not totallyunplugged but at least aren't
hooked to that phone right onthe hip, right.
I know that for me.
A lot of times I just shut myphone off and my wife gets upset
because I don't answer her forthree or four hours.

(51:01):
But for my sanity I need tounplug and I'll tell you what,
folks, if you've neverexperienced the north or the
bush or a lake and not had toworry about a phone.

(51:24):
I'm old enough that and Istarted doing fishing trips when
I was young enough that when weleft I would tell my mom and
dad you know, I'll see you in aweek.
If somebody dies, you can callthe lodge, but I don't know if
I'll get the message and justleave.
And there's something sospecial about having that time

(51:52):
when you're truly in the momentand you get to experience the
loon calls and the wind in thepines and just even going out
and breathing a cool, crisp airat night.
And there's so many things thatthe North has to offer and

(52:17):
they're just small, littlethings but they can be
monumental when you're actuallythere in the moment.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
When you need them to be.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Yeah, you know.
So I love the idea and that'swhat I miss the most about not
owning a lodge.
I still have an island up onthe Upper French, so I'm very
connected there to this day.
But one of the most favoritethings that and I'm sure it's

(52:50):
the same with you, dave and Willand will but one of the most
favorite things that I do anddid was share experiences in the
North and, you know, on theupper French River.
It was a beautiful place tojust, you know, take people to

(53:20):
beautiful spots and show themthings that you would never see
unless you go into the bushRight and and that for all of
you listening you know what.
Just jump in the car and andhead north with the family and
and go somewhere.
You will not regret it and gosomewhere.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
You will not regret it.
I remember Virginia McKenzieand she was with Tomogami Lake,
first Nation.
I think she said it best.
She said that Northern Ontariois a place you go to bring
balance back into your life, andit's so true.
And I know now we've been atthe lodge with the internet, so
we have Wi-Fi.
You have Wi-Fi calling now onyour phone, right, so you know

(54:00):
it used to be they had to emailyou, but now they can text you
and they can call you and that.
But it's still pretty easy onceyou land there that your brain
flips to island time and justthrow that thing away and I'll
deal with it on my own terms.
And just throw that thing awayand I'll deal with it on my own
terms.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
So let's talk a little bitabout Lodge88.
And I would love to be able todo that because over the years I
have never had the pleasure ofexperiencing it.
But I am a person who is ifthere's anybody on this planet

(54:40):
that has heard more about Lodge88 for years and years and years
, and Ange and I had a wonderfulrelationship.

(55:05):
Before I bought Chaudière and Ihad not been to very many
lodges that I had never been toan American plant lodge.
It was always a housekeepingplace because when I was younger
I couldn't afford it.
But when I bought Chaudière,ange come up and they did a show

(55:26):
for me every while.
They did 13 episodes in in inmy tenure tenure and and Ange
was a very important piece to mysuccess.
He was my coach, he was mymentor, and do you know who he?

(55:50):
Constantly there was never acomparison.
Constantly there was never acomparison, but always a place
to strive to.
And there was only ever oneplace he talked about when it
come to the pinnacle, and thatwas Lodge 88.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Well, he's too kind.
I don't get it, because whenI'm there, all I can see is
what's not done in the work thatwe still have to do, of course.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
we all see that, we all are like that.
yeah, hey, listen you'll neverexperience it like I've
experienced it when I go back tothe place that I sold and
poured my heart and soul intofor a decade and then see what
needs to be done.
You know now that one ispainful, but you always see that

(56:40):
stuff.
But I'll tell you what folks,if you're listening.
Ange has said that and it wasthe biggest.
There were two things that hespoke to.
He said that the cleanliness atLodge 88 was impeccable.

(57:00):
He said that every time he wentinto one of your cottages or a
room or any place, he felt likehe was the first person going in
there.
It was immaculate and extremelybeautiful.

(57:21):
So, listen, hats off to that.
And you don't know how muchthose thoughts of Lodge88 for me
helped me when I was doing allof that stuff.
Right, you look around and yousee what needs to be cleaned up

(57:42):
and you, you go and you, you doit and you make sure things are
clean.
You make sure the bathrooms areclean and and and and.
I modeled my business from whatI heard from Ange about Lodge88
and from what I the perspectiveof my guests coming in and what

(58:07):
I wanted to give them.
The other thing that he talkedvery pointed at was the food,
and again he said the food atyour place is outstanding and I
just want to thank you, numberone, because you are the

(58:31):
benchmark For me.
Lodge 88 was the benchmark.
I looked at all of the pictureson your website and I just hope
someday that I get to take thetime to get there.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Well, anytime, just give us a call, we'll find a
spot.
But you know, my granddad ran aclean operation, you know, and
then he ran into some problemsand that, and my parents, so
parents.
So we didn't have a choice.
We were taught how to do thingsand to do it right the first

(59:05):
time.
And I think that's funny whatyou said about the first time,
because that's the housekeepers,that's what they say.
Like, your job in this cabin isto make it so that people, when
they walk through that door,they feel like they're the very
first people to stay in thiscabin.
And so if something breaks, youknow we want to know about it.
We don't, you know a tap or alight or you know something, so

(59:28):
and we we carry, you know stuffthat we can change it out quick.
But you know, and we're 20years now in, so you know we're
at the point where we'restarting to replace things.
We've pretty much done thedecks and the roofs and, looking
at the inside stuff, I toldTerry it was time to change the

(59:49):
carpets.
He wasn't too happy about that,so we got a new carpet cleaner
which seemed to you know, buy ussome time.
Anyway, you're, you're rightand I think I think people, for
you know, don't understand thatthat's your brand, is not your
logo, right?
Your brand is your product and,um, you know, like we've been
to many places where you know,there, you go into a cabin and

(01:00:11):
there's like four plates, threespoons and two cups and nothing
matches, right, yeah, and youjust want, and you just want to
make it look like that somebodyactually cares, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Yeah, no, very well spoken, and now I think that
we've accurately painted Lodge88 in the correct light.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe lake.
You've got walleye.
I guess, like for most northernlodges, is your bread and

(01:00:48):
butter.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Yes, so walleye, northern pike and perch in the
main lake and then we've got alake that you can portage into
and to be honest, it's a rocklake, it's a pothole, it's a
spring-fed lake on the top of ahill and you know it was just
minnows in there.
We got the M&R to stock atprobably going back 30 or 40

(01:01:12):
years now and stuff.
So somebody made a mistake, itwas speckled trout and then
somebody dumped some lake troutin it by mistake.
So we're trying to get thatmess cleaned up and get back to
just the specs again.
But, um, you know again, to behonest, you know like a lot of
people went through the lake inthe 60s and 70s and I can tell
you in the early 80s you know,um, you know it was always a

(01:01:35):
good lake for spawning but thefish were small, like a lot of
fish, but small fish, like itwas hard to catch a walleye over
14 inches, that's a smallwalleye.
And so we worked with the otheroperator on the lake at the
time and M&R so we were able toget slot sizes put on the lake
in 1993.
So we were 10 years before theprovincial slots.

(01:01:57):
We were.
We were 10 years ahead.
So you know, we've got a prettyimpressive fishery, uh, and
both in terms of size and andnumbers and and again we really
stress, uh, conservation.
So if you went back in the 60s,anybody that came in, they,
they fished every day.
They fish every day.
They took fish out their theirlimit, home, right, and and now
it's, uh, it's a it's a wholedifferent ball of wax because

(01:02:17):
the they fished every day.
They fished every day.
They took fish out, they're athome, right, and now it's a
whole different ball of waxbecause the lake honestly can't
sustain that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Well, and I know from a good source again, angelo
Viola, he said that on everytrip you will come in contact
with an eight to ten pounder uhwhich is outstanding, like that,
those are beautiful walleye and.
And he also said and I and Idid do a little bit of research

(01:02:47):
with uh, with ang um uh.
He said that your northern pikefishery is underutilized.
Um and and um.
He said it is an.
It is an.
Actually, it's actually awonderful uh, northern pike
fishery, um, so let's talk atouch about that.

(01:03:08):
Like what are?
What's a big northern uh inyour lake?

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
well, I think the biggest that I've ever seen
personally was 51 inches um, sothat's, that's a big, big,
northern, yeah, um, you knowit's a walleye, it's like you
know.
you know, the biggest one I'veever seen out come out of, like
I think was 14 pounds, but, likeyou said, it's not uncommon,
you know, you know, just to seefish over eight pounds and and
northern, you know, know, in theupper 20s and 30 pounds, you

(01:03:38):
know.
So that's good, I mean, we'relucky to be on the lake.
So Esnagui Lake, you know, withthe MNR, was the very first
kind of remote lake in Ontarioto have a fisheries management,
like a lake management plan, puton it in 1969.
So there's been no newdevelopment on the lake since
the 60s.

(01:03:59):
And actually, you know, there'sless people fishing on the lake
now than there was in the 60sand 70s and probably the early
80s.
So we're very lucky to havethat type of fishery, especially
in northeastern ontario.
Um, so we are, and it's afishery that people know would

(01:04:20):
normally, um, you know, think ofand we always call them the
exotics, right?
So, the northern manitobas or,you know, the northwest
territories, or saskatchewan,right, um, so you know, um, and,
and people just like to comeand have the ability to catch
that fish, you know, and ofcourse we encourage them all to
go back so someone else to catchthem.

(01:04:40):
But we are worried.
We are worried about globalwarming and climate change
because we're seeing some, we'restarting to see some things
that you know these were coldwater lakes, right, and these
fish were never meant to be inwaters that were, you know, warm
for you know, three, four, fivemonths of the year, and last

(01:05:01):
year we had a very early ice outand you know we saw some things
that you know that are kind ofworrying.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Is it the northern pike that you see the most
affected?

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Well, what we found was there was just time and the
fish just weren't eating and weattributed it to the warm water.
But you know they were downdeep so they were, and they were
feeding at night.
But you know it could just bethe year that we had.
So we're hoping it's an anomaly, but you know we're not getting

(01:05:38):
the snow cover in the winterthat we used to get, we're not
getting the ice that we used toget.
Now, maybe this year will bedifferent.
You know, it seems like this isa little bit more like a
regular winter, but when we werekids and even the first couple
of years at the Air air service,um, you know, middle of october

(01:05:59):
lakes would start to freeze up,right, and now you're going
like at christmas time, like thelakes there's still open water
and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
yeah and uh yeah, right now too yeah, it's a I
know on the uh upper french likeum, um the owner, uh two owners
back Tony Stinson and he ownedit from about 1971 until 1996.
He had a great tenure with itand when I bought it, brian

(01:06:31):
Dykstra was the real estateagent that brokered the deal.
He told me to reach out to Tonyand Betsy, who at that time
were in their 80s, and Tonyactually come to the Toronto
Sportsman Show to see me.
But there was Tony and thenJerry Noel.

(01:06:52):
He was an American fellow fromIndiana and they always closed
showaudiere on Labor Day and thefirst thing I did when I opened
was I pushed that right back toThanksgiving.
But I asked Tony, I said whydid you close on Labor Day?

(01:07:15):
And when I asked Jerry that hesaid well, you know, all the
kids go back to school and Idon't have any labor.
So that didn't make much senseto me.
But I asked Tony and he said wegot pushed out Like I mean, in
September in the 70s the weatherwas no good, we had to leave.

Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
We were icing up, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yeah, right, so there's been a huge change.
And it's funny you talk aboutyour fishery, I know, on
Nipissing in the Upper French,I've noticed over the last 15
years that the northern pikeseem to that they're.
They're changing.
The only um once you, once youget um away from the ice out, um

(01:08:04):
, if you, if you want to catch abig northern man, you're the
only time I, I, um, I see bignortherns being caught is when,
uh, we're fishing deep formuskies and those northerns are
deep and then they're all snotrockets up shallow.
You know you're, we're notcatching anything bigger than

(01:08:26):
you know 29, 30 inches from endof June right through till end
of August in shallower water.
And Nipissing is a very shallowlake, like I mean, we're
average depth is 50 feet, noteven right.
Upper French is a lot different.
Like we've got, you know, a 210foot hole and average depth's

(01:08:49):
probably about 100 feet.
But I really I've seen adifference just in that short
period of time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Yeah, no, things definitely are different, not to
say what might be causing it.
But you know it's not the sameas you know 50 years ago, that's
for sure.
It's not the same as 50 yearsago, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
And, to be fair, I imagine if you go back 50 years
ago, you could say the samething about the 50 before that
and the 50 before that, right?
So it's hard to say.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
I was at a conference and there was some people from
the?
U of t and they were talking and, uh, they were saying like
obviously you know, with withclimate change and what we're
doing with greenhouse gasesisn't helping.
But he said that almost likethe current feeling is we've

(01:09:51):
never gone this long withoutsome kind of uh, um, you know,
going back into an ice age, likewe're really overdue.
And so you know they're they'resaying that um, you know that
this climate change is, is, ismaybe this much, um, you know,
uh, from, uh, um, the reboundfrom the ice age and and warmer

(01:10:11):
temperatures, with, you know, alittle bit of uh, man-made stuff
on on top, yeah, yeah, but uh,definitely changing and the
world's changing.
I was just talking to thetoronto star right last week
about, um, you know, you knowpeople from from the south now
looking for vacations to, youknow, in the summertime where

(01:10:31):
they can kind of come and cooloff a bit.
Oh, yeah, which takes us back100 years or more, yeah, when
people used to leave the citiesfor up north for that reason.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Yeah, one of the hot spots for show to air was Texas.
And as soon as I and I know aTexas drawl, you know you get
somebody on the phone and youhear, you, hear, you hear it.
And the first thing that Iwould do to to start to seal the

(01:11:08):
deal is they tell me what theywere looking for and this and
that, and I'd say how's theweather there?
And they'd say, oh, it is hothere.
You know it is a hundred andit's been a hundred and nine for
the last month and a half.
And I said, oh really, it'sbeen a really hot here too.

(01:11:30):
Oh yeah, how hot.
Well, we've had like a month of80.
And they're like 80?
Oh my God, that was it.
That's why they came for theweather.
Like it was, and that'ssomething to remember too.
Like I mean, yeah, you'reabsolutely right, but no, Dave.

Speaker 4 (01:11:52):
what are you working on, oh?

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
sorry, go ahead, dave .
No, I was just going to say weused to have travel agencies and
and, uh, we had switched to uh,saber, the online, the
reservation system, so we usedto have to go to dallas, uh, to
the american airlines, uh,flight training center for, uh,
for computer training, and uh, Iremember being down there, for
it was in july one year and, uh,you know, up here in the winter

(01:12:15):
time it's 35 below like don'tgo out in the car without your
foil blanket and your candle andyour little shovel and all this
stuff, right, warm boots andwarm mitts.
And down there it was like thereverse, right, like don't be
out in the freeway unless yougot like a gallon of water and
you get stuck and all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's awesome.
Well, listen, dave.
Thank you so much.
Any last thoughts?
Will or Dave, I?

Speaker 4 (01:12:45):
just wanted to know, dave, can you tell the people
where can they find Lodge 88,marmac and White River Air just
on your websites, or how canthey get a hold of you if they
want to get booked with you?

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
Yeah, that's probably the easiest thing to do is to
just Google Lodge88.
You know that's what people donow, right?
So just Lodge and two numbereights and we'll come up and you
know email and phone number,website, and you know Facebook
and Instagram and all that funstuff.
You know it's a business haschanged.

(01:13:18):
My grandfather's time he wouldput a little box ad in, you know
Field and Stream and SportsAfield and you go to the post.
He went to go to the postoffice box and get inquiries and
checks.
And then my dad's time was thesports shows.
And now that's all we do isanswer social media.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
Yeah, oh, that's awesome.
Well, you know what, dave?
I personally really appreciateyou being on here.
I hope we can continue to buildour relationship through
Destination Northern Ontario andI know, steve, we definitely
have to go for a ride on thattrain track.
Buddy, I got to see some moreof this.
I got to see that bulldozersitting in that ditch that got
thrown off the tracks, baby.

(01:13:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
I'm going to sign it.

Speaker 4 (01:13:58):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Anytime, guys, just let us know when.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
I've heard some crazy stories about that train.
Dave, I don't know if you knowthis, but you and I shared
guests the Caden BrownFoundation with Marty Meadows
and those boys.
I am telling you they I'venever seen a group drink like

(01:14:26):
that.
Like I mean, they had a, theyhad a separate.
They hauled a trailer, acovered trailer, up with all of
their booze.
But anyway, that's it, that'sfor a different day, but thank
you so much.
Folks, you'll find Lodge 88,and I highly recommend it.

(01:14:47):
So does the Fish and Canadatelevision show and crew, and go
ahead there.
Dave, you were going to saysomething.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Oh, I was just going to say I think there's been a
few people who've been asked tomaybe not take the train again.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Oh, it was a wild ride a few times, from what I
hear, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
It's kind of like you know, it's called the Bud Car
and it's not because it'sBudweiser beer.
There's an extra D involved.
But yeah, what happens on thetrain stays on the train.
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Nice, I love that.
I love that.
Well, listen, thanks, brother.
We really appreciate you beingon with us.
It was a wonderful hour and abit and I certainly hope that we
can do this again.
And for all of you Diariesfamily out there listening,
thank you so much for getting tothis point.

(01:15:46):
We really, really appreciate it.
And if you're looking for apartnership with us, give Willie
an email, a call, and we've gota great deck as well.
Don't forget, like I say everyweek, go over to
fishingcanadacom and get intothose free giveaways.

(01:16:10):
The more time you enter, thebetter chance you have to win,
and they've got some great stuff.
Again, garmin is alwaysstepping up to the plate and
they have some outstandingpieces of equipment there.
Go and get it, and I guessfolks again.
Thus brings us to theconclusion of another episode of

(01:16:35):
Diaries of a Lodge OwnerStories of the North.
I'm a good old boy nevermeaning no harm.
I'll be all you ever saw beenreeling in the hog since the day
I was born, bending my rockStretching my line.

Speaker 4 (01:16:59):
Someday I might own a lodge, and that'd be fine.
I'll be making my way the onlyway I know how, working hard and
sharing the north With all ofmy pals.
Well, I'm a good old boy,working hard and sharing the
North with all of my pals.

Speaker 6 (01:17:20):
Well, I'm a good old boy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
I bought a lodge and lived my dream.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
And now I'm here talking about how life can be as
good as it seems.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
Yeah, as the world gets louder and louder, the
lessons of our natural worldbecome harder and harder to hear
, but they are still availableto those who know where to
listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's

(01:17:53):
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal use by

(01:18:14):
Indigenous peoples all over theglobe.
After nearly a decade of harvestuse, testimonials and research,
my skepticism has faded toobsession and I now spend my
life dedicated to improving thelives of others through natural
means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the

(01:18:37):
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm
going to take you along with meto see the places and meet the
people that will help you findyour outdoor passion and help
you live a life close to natureand under the canopy.
And help you live a life closeto nature and under the canopy.

(01:19:00):
Find Under the Canopy now onSpotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.

Speaker 6 (01:19:06):
Hi everybody, I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman
.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast that's right.
Every Thursday, angelo and Iwill be right here in your ears
bringing you a brand new episodeof Outdoor Journal Radio.
Hmm, now, what are we going totalk about for two hours every
week?
Well, you know there's going tobe a lot of fishing.

Speaker 7 (01:19:27):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.

Speaker 6 (01:19:32):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
From athletes.

Speaker 7 (01:19:49):
To scientists.

Speaker 5 (01:19:53):
To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
, you will taste it.

Speaker 6 (01:19:58):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.