Episode 96: How the Best Casting Spots Are Found While Trolling

What makes a three-mile stretch of seemingly uniform weed line suddenly produce fish in one specific spot? Why do nine out of ten strikes happen in the exact same location? These are the questions that separate casual anglers from true fishing experts.

Muskie guru Matt O'Brian joins us on the French River to reveal his systematic approach to finding productive fishing spots—a method that has made him one of the most successful muskie guides on Lake Nipissing and the Upper French River. From an innovative technique using trolling as a research tool to his digital record-keeping strategies, Matt shares the hard-earned knowledge that allows him to consistently locate and catch trophy fish.

"My best casting spots I've ever found in my life, I found trolling," Matt explains, detailing how covering water efficiently while watching for patterns has revealed his most productive locations. He walks us through the critical transitions he looks for—rock to weed edges, proximity to deep water basins, and access to forage like cisco and smelt—that create the perfect ambush points for predator fish.

The conversation extends beyond fishing tactics to include technological innovations, like the network bridge system beaming internet across three kilometres of the French River that made this episode possible. As spring arrives and black flies emerge, we discuss seasonal strategies for different species and how Matt adjusts his guiding approach throughout the year, from early-season lake trout to his specialty in trophy muskie.

Whether you're planning a trip to the French River, looking to upgrade your fishing approach, or simply enjoy conversations about the outdoor lifestyle, this episode delivers practical wisdom from decades of on-water experience. Connect with Matt directly to book a guided fishing experience and discover for yourself why understanding "the spot on the spot" is the key to consistent fishing success.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
my best casting spots I've ever found in my life.
I found trolling.
So, say, you have a weed flatthat's three miles long and you
spend your time learning it,mapping it out, putting your
waypoints down, figure it out,but then, as you're trolling and
sometimes it's with clients tooyeah, it's better.
When you have four or fivelures in the water, right, you
start to notice that the bitesare happening in the exact same

(00:28):
spot every time.
Yes, or nine times out of ten.
Right, you've got 100% of thewater, but 90% of the bites are
always in the same spot.
That's where you want to go andcast.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
This week on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast
Networks Diaries of a LodgeOwner Stories of the North.
Well, folks, it's springtimeand you want to know why.
I know it's springtime BecauseI'm sitting up here looking at
the French River and it is softwater.

(00:58):
Yes, I am at the cottage andtoday we have a a very, very
special guest here sittingbeside me and we are going to
talk about everything FrenchRiver and a little bit more.
And folks I'm really reallyhappy to bring back on to the

(01:20):
show, matt O'Brien.
Matt, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Hey, thanks for having me, Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, so folks, matt's up here because I needed
a very special favor.
And for those of you who don'tknow, matt is probably the best
muskie angler on Nipissing theUpper French, and you can lump

(01:49):
the world into that as well.
It's a little bit too long.
Well, no, you know, but he inhis real job is an IT specialist
.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
He well, I guess it's um digital, uh, um screens
right, well, yeah, but IT isprobably the best way to explain
it.
For sure, yep.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
That's good.
So, um, we're able to do thisnow, uh, with me being live.
Wow, Not so much live for you,but live for me at the French
River on the island, and it'sreally exciting, like I mean,
and Terry from the Tuke is a keycontributing factor to this

(02:34):
whole situation, because Mattand Terry have put together
cables and ends and cuttingthings and matching everything
up and ITing their way through,uh, pointing lasers and dishes
and all kinds of stuff, and andnow I've got like 85 megabits

(02:57):
per second download speedsitting here at my kitchen table
.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, oh, you're welcome.
Just in time for the leaf gametoo.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Perfect, and that's
very important.
Like I mean, the reason thatthis whole trip and why you are
the most important cog here isbecause it wouldn't be happening
right now if I couldn't watchthat Leaf game.
It's game five tonight, and man, what it's?

(03:24):
It's it's game five tonight,and, um, man, what a a massive
game it uh, it is.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
It's hard to believe that we're in this predicament
again, Well.
Well, I mean that should bethree, one, four, nothing Like
it's.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
I hey, listen, the that whole series, the way that
it's unfolded to this point, hasbeen um uncomfortable, to say
the least.
But you know, I got to saythere have been points this year

(03:57):
recently that they're foolingme again and I hope that it's
different.
Because they lost game three ofthis series against the Florida
Panthers and that was the onewhere they ended up getting up

(04:18):
to two two-goal leads and at thepoint midway through game three
where it was 3-1 and the Leafsgame that I've seen the Maple
Leafs play since 1993.
Yeah, and that's sayingsomething.

(04:54):
And I have not missed manygames and I have not missed any
playoff games.
Right, the dominance that they.
Well, there were periods whereFlorida had pushback, but the
difference at that point and thereason that I still have hope
and you know, as a Leaf fan Iknow we have been scarred so

(05:20):
terribly bad and deeply over thelast wow, since 67, really, I
don't know, the late 80s is whenI can vividly remember as a kid
watching the Leafs and lovingthe Leafs and feeling that.
But in 93, there was legitimatelove and a team that really

(05:46):
could have won the Stanley Cupand should have.
When you remove the whole,kerry, fraser, wayne Gretzky
high stick incident on DougGilmore, which robbed us of a
Leafs-Montreal final, and theLeafs would have won that hands

(06:07):
down, like I mean, even theMontreal Canadiens fans out
there would agree with that.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I remember you telling me a story about meeting
the referee from that game,didn't you?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:17):
I did.
I don't know if I've ever toldthat story to the Diaries family
and it was a bit of a.
Well, I'll tell you the story.
So my wife, melissa, her dad,so my father-in-law God rest his
soul he passed in 2013.
When he was a young man, playeda fairly high level of hockey

(06:40):
and it just so happened that hisroommate back then was Cary
Fraser, and Cary Fraser was thereferee who missed the high
stick by Wayne Gretzky on.
They should have won that game,but because they missed that

(07:08):
goal or missed that uh penalty,they he missed calling that
penalty.
Right in front of him, waynegretzky scored the goal.
That uh ended up being thewinning goal.
Just minutes after the incident, when doug gilmore was out of
the play because his face wasslashed and he had, he was
bleeding everywhere it was.

(07:29):
it was vicious anyway so wasthat when he was playing on the
the Kings or Edmonton in 93 uh,no, that was the LA Kings okay,
that was the LA Kings yeah,because, um, it was LA Montreal
in final and Montreal won thatseries, but anyway, so we might
have a similar story this yearwith Stolarz in that right.

(07:51):
Oh, don't even be talking aboutsimilar stories.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Well, listen, when Wohl came in, he played great
the first game, right?
So that was that game two thatyou're talking about, right?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Well, game actually he was a little shaky.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
It was game two.
Yeah, yes, game actually.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
He was a little shaky .

Speaker 1 (08:04):
It was game two.
Yeah, yes, game two.
He was a little shaky but hestuck in there and we got the
win and we got the win and itwas a really, really tough
position to be put in as agoaltender, because these guys
are crazier than shithouse ratsLike I mean.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
They need their preparation time.
They need their preparationtime, they need their regular
routine, they need to mentallyprepare.
And hey, I don't blame any oneof them, because if you wanted
to stand in front of a100-mile-an-hour slap shot when

(08:40):
somebody's firing a piece of5-ounce rubber at your head, you
need to be a different breed ofperson to do that.
But yeah, no, anyway.
So my father-in-law, al Nixon.
He worked for a bunch ofdifferent well, it wasn't a

(09:01):
bunch of different.
He started with Armbro Brothersand they had aggregates
companies and they had all kindsof construction companies and
road building and they were oneof the largest aggregate
companies at the time in Ontario.

(09:22):
And then they were bought outyear over year over year by
different companies, but that'sbeside the story.
But he had access to Seasonstickets to Ottawa, toronto and
Buffalo and, with him beingtheir head sales guy in the
aggregates division, he was at alot of them and Al was a guy

(09:46):
who who cheered for every teamthat was playing against the
Leafs.
He was, he was one of thoseguys.
Anyway, this one, uh, um, thisone, um, um evening, uh, we're
sitting at the dinner table andhe and he had tickets to go to
Buffalo and asked me if I wantedto go.

(10:06):
He would sometimes take me anda couple of his buddies from
Shelburne great guys, grantGlassford and Glenn Morrison.
Myself and Al went down to thisgame in particular, and it was
in Buffalo, and when you go downwith Al, like I mean, you don't
pay for nothing and I wasfairly young so, to give you an
idea 93, the incident happenedand this would have been about a

(10:30):
decade later.
This was like 2003.
For a regular season game, wewent to Buffalo and it had
nothing to do with the Leafs.
And I'm the dummy that goes toa Buffalo Sabres San Jose Sharks
game wearing my Leaf jersey.
That's who I am right.
So we end up going down thereand right away, as soon as the

(10:53):
game started, I noticed CaryFrazier was reffing, right, and,
like I say, you pay for nothing.
So you know I was by the end ofthe game.
I wouldn't describe mymentality as wasted, but it was

(11:13):
getting close, right, you know.
And at the end of the game Isaw Al poking away on his
BlackBerry and texting, whatever, whatever.
And we're leaving our seats,we're in the back row of the
lower bowl and I remember wewere walking across to the aisle
and then he turned left to godown to the rink instead of

(11:37):
turning right to leave thebuilding.
And I said where are we going?
He said we're going to go seeCarrie.
I said Carrie, carrie, who?
Carrie Fraser?
He was my old roommate, Ididn't know.
I kept ties with the guy Nowbeing the boyfriend of his

(12:00):
daughter, melissa, and I hadbeen dating for about I don't
know eight years at that point,a long time, right, right and
anyway.
So we end up heading down and,and Grant and and Glenn are, are
, are behind me and and now I'mcoaching myself, I'm like just

(12:24):
don't say anything, just be nice, like, don't make a fool of
yourself.
Anyway, we go down to this wherethe Zamboni drives out onto the
ice and walk in underneath theice surface, and there's this
little room and, honest to God,it's not, I bet you.

(12:47):
It was 10 by 10.
And it was a square concreteroom and it had a bench all the
way around the perimeter of thisroom and then the door to get
into it.
It was like a closet, okay, andit's like the referee change
room or something.
Yeah, it's the ref's changeroom but it wasn't big.
So, anyway, al walks in, I walkin behind him and I and and I

(13:10):
don't even think that Glenn andum Grant came in there with us.
They kind of waited outside thedoor because it was that small,
because there was two linesmenuh gearing down, uh on the on
the back wall like they hadtheir.
You know, they're taking theirskates off and everything else
and they were kind of lookingtowards the back wall and

(13:30):
whatever.
And then we walked in andthere's Carrie Fraser, in the
flesh and blood, and two thingsset me off.
You know, al introduced me toCarrie, as this is my daughter's
friend and I had been, we hadbeen dating, we got married the

(13:53):
next year.
Yeah, okay, right.
So that kind of set me off.
And then I looked at Kerry andhis hair was perfect, like he
for those of you who don't know,he was known for having this
slicked back hairdo.
That looks like what's that?
I'm going to Google him rightnow and look at him.

(14:14):
Yeah, what's that?
There's the video game wherethe hedgehog dude rolls around
Sonic.
Sonic.
He has Sonic hair and theydidn't wear helmets back then
the referees.
And there he is.
Look at the slick back hair onhim.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
He does look like Sonic the Hedgehog.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
I know, and he was shorter than I imagined, right.
So, anyway, and Al is thiswonderful jovial but I'm dating
his daughter, right, so I'm kindof on the outs.
But to start with, um, but awonderful jovial man and he, he
went over and grabbed Carrie'shand, shook his hand, give him a

(14:55):
big hug, and now he'sintroducing me to Carrie and I'm
the his daughter's friend andCarrie sticks his hand out to
shake my hand.
And I grabbed his hand and,without even thinking about it,
I looked him straight in the eyeand I said you're really fucked

(15:16):
up in 93, didn't you?
And he looked at me and I couldfeel you know how, when you
really kind of mess up and thenyou get that hot sweat kind of
feel from the top of your head,and then it.
And then he threw my hand likehe, he like let my hand go out

(15:37):
of this handshake veryaggressively and he like I mean
he was not happy.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
I'm surprised you shook his hand.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Well, you know, my father-in-law was there, anyway.
So he aggressively let go of myhand and I turned around and I
saw Al and, oh, and the otherthing too.
When after I and I didn't sayit like quietly, I said it very
sternly and the linesmanoverheard the conversation and

(16:11):
when they heard me say that,both of them started howling,
they started laughinghysterically.
And I turned around and I sawAl and his head was like 30
shades of red, like his head wasas red as I've ever seen
anything, and he was mad, ohyeah.

(16:34):
So I looked at Al, I looked atKerry, I looked at the linesmen
that were doubled overhysterically laughing, and I
said, well, I guess it's timefor me to go.
And I walked out and uh, oh man, it was the longest drive home
from Buffalo that I've ever hadand, um, it was a.

(16:55):
It was pretty close to 10 yearsbefore I got another set of
tickets.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Really.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Oh yeah, the next year.
You know what Al did, becauseevery year for Christmas, for
about 10 years prior to that, alwould give me a set of Leaf
tickets and I wasn't sure if Iwas going to be on the naughty
list, right?
So the following Christmas,this was the year that the Leafs

(17:21):
went to the quarterfinals withGary Roberts leading the charge,
and then, when Matt and Sundinwas hurt, and when Matt Sundin
come back, they ended up playingthe Carolina Hurricanes in the
quarterfinal and they weresupposed to win but they lost.
Like I mean, the whole dynamicwas was thrown off terribly, but

(17:44):
but anyway, that's anotherstory.
So the Maple Leaf Sports andEntertainment, because they had
made the final four, had alreadyprinted the Stanley Cup tickets
for the next round anddistributed them to all of the
season's tickets holders.
So fast forward one year andit's Christmas time now and I

(18:10):
get my envelope from Al and Brenand I think the first thing I
remembered is I know it's theenvelope with the tickets, right
, but it was thick, it was likefat, and I thought what?
Anyway, I opened it up and thenthe first thing I would do
because he had a number ofdifferent seats I would check

(18:31):
the price.
So that gave me an idea ofwhere in the rink I was sitting
and I looked at these ticketsand back then like a gold ticket
, which is typically where Iwould sit, a gold ticket, um,
which is typically where I wouldsit, um, sometimes you I'd get
lucky and they had a couple ofplatinums down in the at the at
the air Canada center, but agold ticket at that time was

(18:53):
about $120.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
And, um, I looked at these tickets and there was like
eight of them and I'm like holyshit, eight tickets.
And then I'm like holy shit,eight tickets.
And then I looked straight forthe price and they were like
$495 each.
I'm like, oh my God, it's a box.
And then I got looking, I said,and then I, and then I heard Al

(19:18):
giggling, right, well, what hehad done was he took the, took
the four seats in a row thatthey have, and and the all of
the games from the, the homegames from the next round, which
would have been three homegames because they didn't have
home ice and gave me last year'sStanley Cup finals tickets and

(19:46):
that was it.
Wow, there were no othertickets, they were just last
year's tickets.
And he laughed.
But I'll tell you what In themoment I was kind of
disappointed, but not reallydisappointed.
I knew.
I knew that I was an assholeand I deserved it.
But I'll tell you what it wasworth every minute to be able to

(20:09):
tell Carrie what I thought.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
So are you a Leaf fan .

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
I couldn't tell.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Oh yeah, no shit, but anyway, I still have those
tickets and they have a nicelittle Stanley Cup printed on
the ticket tickets.
And, um, they have a nicelittle stanley cup printed on
the ticket and, uh, hopefully atsome point maybe in my lifetime
you know, I got that blue shirtthat that says, uh, has a maple
leaf on it, says, just oncebefore I die, um, maybe I'll see

(20:38):
tickets like that.
But that's the.
That's the fabled story of ofcarrie fraser it's to be this
year, buddy.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Well, In a few weeks we'll be hoisting the Stanley
Cup.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
We're really at a crossroads right now.
Tonight's a big game.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's a huge game.
We have to win.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Tonight is the biggest game and, folks, I got
to tell you I'm real sorry thatwe're being tardy and late and
sorry, ange, this pod's going todrop on Thursday.
Willie was, he's sick and we're.

(21:19):
I've been up here on the islandstruggling to get some internet
service, but we finally got it.
And you know what the way thatyou avoid this situation is you
need to put inventory in thebank.
We should have and Ange isabsolutely right, we should have
four or five podcasts in thebank already.
But anyway, you're going tohear this after the Leafs play

(21:44):
game five tonight, which isWednesday.
And it really is a crossroadsbecause this team and I don't
know what team we're going tosee and really the big dogs, in
particularly Austin Matthews,our captain, and Mitch Marner,

(22:09):
they need to bring it tonight.
Like I mean, marner brought itall year, got his 100-point
season, he looked pretty goodagainst Ottawa.
Like I mean, I have not been afan of Mitch Marner at all for
most of the later years in hiscareer so far because of the

(22:31):
playoff performances.
And this year he come out.
He played bigger, I felt, inthe regular season and he kind
of he's got me believing in himagain to a certain extent, but
after the Ottawa seriesespecially.
And then he scored that one biggoal to beat the Panthers in

(22:54):
game two.
But this is where the rubbermeets the road.
This is the deciding factor.
I don't think that you couldactually think of a team who has
come to a point that means somuch in the situation that

(23:21):
they're in, agreed, because,literally, if they lose this
game, I don't feel that theyhave the mental fortitude to put
together two wins in a rowagainst the defending Stanley
Cup champions.
I think that the only real shotand again, you never know If

(23:45):
they lost tonight they might win, but look at the Vegas odds and
that'll tell you something butif they can pull this win out
and they can somehow find a wayto beat the Florida Panthers in
this second round of theplayoffs, I will not be familiar

(24:11):
with this feeling other thanthe experience I had when I was
a kid in 93, because Iwholeheartedly believed that
year that they were going to winthe, the, the, the first series
against the Detroit Red Wings.
They went down two games tonothing and I, I, just I thought
that they were done.
I felt they were going to they,they were done.

(24:32):
But when they come back and wonthat series.
I that, I that was a definingmoment in my, my sports.
Um life, the, the in my MapleLeaf love and love for the game
Um, and I can't help but knowthat um, we haven't had.

(24:55):
I don't think we've had.
The only moments that we've hadare all bad moments.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, since, like they're bad I feel like you
might have that feeling again ifthe if the leafs win tonight
wow, I'm telling you, I, I know,I will, um, I, I had that, I
had I'll be honest, they're homeice right.
They're playing in torontothat's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
they've're home ice right.
They're playing in Toronto,that's right, that's right,
they've got home ice advantage.
And I've already had thatfeeling once in this series In
game three.
They lost game three interrible fashion, but for the
first half of that game, whenthey were up three to one, they

(25:44):
totally dominated the FloridaPanthers from top to bottom and
I, I those thoughts entered mymind for that for the first time
in in like real thoughts.
You always, when they'replaying Boston, you think well,
maybe they'll win, or maybe thisor maybe that.
But in that moment I thought Idon't, maybe, maybe they can do
this yeah, they're playing thestanley cup champions and
they're winning.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yes yeah, maybe, and and that would have put us up
three games to none right and inthat moment I thought oh my god
, and that was the one that therat scored too.
And oh my yeah, what?
Oh yeah, morgan riley, we hadthe morgan riley hat trick.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
He put two in our.
Oh my yeah, what yeah, morganRiley.
We had the Morgan Riley hattrick.
He put two in our net andscored one.
Oh my God, I know, I was sodisgusted.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
I always watched the post game on TV, Like I
literally just shut the TV offand went to bed.
I didn't want to hear anythingabout it.
I was absolutely disgusted.
Yeah, I know, I was absolutelydisgusted.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, I know and you know the other.
And before we leave the Leafstopic, the other big thing that
I've noticed and this bringssome confidence well, there's
two really Our head coach, craigBerube.

(26:56):
When they hired him, I didn'tknow a whole lot about Craig
other than he was Berube.
When they hired him, I didn'tknow a whole lot about Craig
other than he was.
He was and I use this termaffectionately a goon in the NHL
.
He played briefly for the Leafsand he was one tough son of a
gun and I didn't know if it wasthe right fit, but man oh man.

(27:18):
I didn't know if it was theright fit, but man oh man, he's
got these guys playing well andplaying a system, and playing
what, for the first time againsince 93, I feel, looks like
playoff hockey.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, he brings a sense of calm.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
That's right 100%.
And with that that, and namelythe addition of some excellent
defensemen, our defense corethis year is, in my opinion,
probably one of the best defensecores again since 93.

(27:53):
Like, I mean even Simone Gagnéman, what a beast.
That guy has gone from rags toriches.
He lit up Reinhardt behind thenet during a power play last
game and smashed him, smashedhim and I'll tell you what.
Hey, chris Cutbert, out there,if you're listening, you have

(28:15):
got to get on top of those hitsLike I mean, those hits kind of
go through, and I'm yellinglouder than you are, buddy.
You got to get on top of thosehits Like I mean those hits kind
of go through, and I'm yellinglouder than you are, buddy.
You got to get on those hits,joe Bowen, he'd be lifted right
off the chair.
Those hits are awesome hits.
They've thrown some doozies.
And Simone Gagné brother, keepup the good work.

(28:37):
I've been doing a lot oftalking.
You haven't been able to get aword in edgewise here.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Well, you're pretty passionate about the Leafs.
I get it.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, that's the problem.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Well, what time is it ?
Right now it's 5 o'clock.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Less than two hours game time.
Oh, I can feel the hairs on theback of my neck.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
I think you're stupid shit like that, but I'm looking
at your gun.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
They're not going to lose tonight.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I think I really it's going to be really, really
nerve-wracking and frustratingto watch, even if they're
winning.
Oh, yeah.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, that's playoff hockey.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
But last game they didn't get one goal, but it was
close the whole game.
So anyways.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
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life dedicated to improving thelives of others through natural
means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm

(31:20):
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people that will help you findyour outdoor passion and help
you live a life close to natureand under the canopy.
Find Under the Canopy now onSpotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
So listen, I know we skipped over the whole laser
beam and all of the things thatwe had to do to be doing this
podcast here.
The way that we're doing it onthe Upper French River Explain
the whole laser thing okay.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
So we're using something called a network
bridge, so it's similar to likea wi-fi that you'd have in your
house, but it's point to point.
So instead of just covering ageneral area, you have one on
one side and one on the otherand they point to each other and
they send the internetwirelessly from one to another.
And right now Terry from theTilted Tuke offered to split his

(32:24):
internet with Steve.
So we set up a satellite dishor a network bridge access point
on Terry's island on the TiltedTuke, and then we shot it
almost three kilometers acrossthe river yeah, to steve's front
door that's right and then setit up and then and then from

(32:46):
there it splits off into thewi-fi.
So, yeah, we, we're shooting uhhigh speed internet right across
the river.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, it works perfect yeah, well, and and
because of the way my, um, ourisland here is oriented, um,
with uh, with the trees and anduh, ridges and cliffs backing on
to the, the, the backside ofthe cottage, I can't get a a
straight shot north to try andget starlink right, yeah, so

(33:13):
he's right, he's facing north,so he's he's.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
He's hitting starlink right with the starlink dish,
and then it comes down and ithits a router and then from the
router it goes to all of hismesh devices that cover his
entire island internet.
And then one of the wires thatwe ran, a wire from his switch
to the network bridge accesspoint on his island and then

(33:37):
kind of aimed it, eyeball it,eyeballed and aimed it over to
where we could see through thetrees on steve's island, yeah,
and then I took the boat acrossand tied it up with that stupid
long rope and it's been drivingme crazy, by the way yeah, I
know I got, we gotta cut it ohmy god.
and then, yeah, we like I wasworried that you know, going
through those pine trees it wasgonna be a problem, but it's's

(33:57):
not.
There's maybe like a 15-footdiameter hole in between the
pine trees, and the satellitedishes are like it's perfect.
We were streaming the game lastnight.
I know it didn't even buffer.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
I know it's unbelievable.
Yeah, I'm very happy.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, I use them at work.
We use them for a networksolution for elevators.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, yeah, well, and when Matt says work, this is
Matt's company.
So listen, anybody out therethat's looking for some kind of
solution in high-rise buildingsand all of that stuff, and for
your digital screens too likeevery digital screen that you
see out there, whether it's in adoctor's office, a dentist
office, mcdonald's for theirmenus this is Matt.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah, that's digital signage.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Digital signage and then all of the solutions behind
it is Matt.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Right.
So back to the elevators.
In the elevators some of thebuildings are brand new and some
of them are five years old andsome are 30 years old, and in
the elevator they have somethingcalled a traveling cable.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
So why are you?
What is the point of puttingthis internet in there?
Is this to service all of thepeople that live with person,
live in the apartment or thebuilding with personal internet?

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, like the property manager or the people
that run the building they wantto communicate with the
residents, so there's a screenin the elevator right, so they
sit in the elevator they'restaring at the elevator.
It says whatever, parking lotP1's closed or the swimming pool
is going to be open on Tuesday,or whatever they want to say
yeah, they can reach them.
They just go on their laptop.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
So this isn't.
Steve Nizwicki lives inapartment 501B and wants to have
internet in his condo.
That's not what this is about.
This is about the managementcommunicating to the residents
through screens, and the screensare put all over the high rise.

(35:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
In the elevators, outside the elevators, all over
the place, but they're not justcondos.
It could be in any buildingthat had an elevator Hospital.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
You see a lot of these digital signage screens in
gas stations too.
Right, you stop to buy gas, yougo in and there's a screen
there and it says you know a lotof 649 tickets, or the $75
million jackpot, or buy one, getone free Gatorade or whatever.
It's just digital science.
But so how?
I got kind of working withthese network bridges.

(36:28):
Were these elevators?
Okay, they have this travelingcable that goes up and down.
Yeah, and inside that travelingcable there a there's, say, the
50 different wires, but none ofthose wires are, um, ethernet
cables, so none of them aremeant for running internet
through.
Yeah, so, so the elevator goesup and down, there's a wire that

(36:51):
follows up and down forelectricity and this and that
right, safety, whatever.
And uh, what?
In the past, what we did was weuse an adapter, right, yeah,
from ethernet to coax or fromethernet to twisted pair, and.
But the problem is, is thosecables, when they're moving, it
degradates the uh, internetconnection speed?

(37:12):
Yeah, so it's, it's okay, butit's going in and out all the
time because the cable is badand it's moving, even if it's
new, even like a five-year-oldbuilding, but they don't put an
ethernet cable in there for somereason, I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
That's okay, you've got a perfect solution.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, we use this network bridge right, so it
shoots up to 27 kilometers theone that we used right and we
put one on the top of theelevator shaft.
Yeah, right, and as thatthing's moving, it never loses
sight of each other, becausethey're pointed at each other
and the internet's perfect yeah,that's beautiful um three

(37:46):
kilometers, though I've neverdone before, that's uh.
I mean, if it does 27, Ifigured it'd do three right.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Well, it's doing just fine right now.
Yeah, and the weather here thisweek so far has been
outstanding.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yep Shorts and a t-shirt flip-flops.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Oh yeah, I think.
Do I dare say that summer hasarrived?

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Mm-hmm, yeah, I agree , and so have the black flies.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh Wow.
They're not quite too terriblehere on the island yet and they
never really get bad unless youget back into the bush.
But they're definitely here andthey're little Like.
They're the first ones thatcome out and they're like you
know what?
Black flies are one of theworst creatures to live on this
planet.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
You can't like I was trying to breathe over at the
marina and they were rolling upmy nose.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
I know, I'm just like trying to breathe.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
I'm like oh my God.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
They're like pigs.
I equate them to pigs becausethey root.
It's like mosquitoes will landon you and if you're covered up
decently, they'll try and bitethrough your clothes, but they
don't crawl into your clothes.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
So mosquito also makes like a buzzing sound.
I call it black fly the silentkiller.
They don't even make a buzzingsound.
No, I know I a buzzing sound.
I call the black fly the silentkiller.
They don't even make a buzzingsound.
I know.
I remember one time I went to,uh, the middle french river,
like around woesley bay.
Yeah, 25 years ago, maybe 30years ago, I don't know and we
went camping.
Right, we're young kids, wejust want to go fishing.
So we're like, screw it, we'lljust find somewhere on the side

(39:13):
of the road and and we'll camp.
Holy shit.
But after three days I wenthome and like they were I didn't
realize they're crawling up inmy hair and just like biting me
all in my, on my, the back of myhead.
When I got home it was likescab and like swollen all like
all the way across.
I had like a thousand bitesbetween my ears.

(39:34):
Oh nice, yeah, it wasunbelievable I know well, I know
my buddy that I was with neverwent fishing, never went camping
again.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Can you blame him though?
No, I know.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
And we didn't catch anything.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
I know.
Well, we did a shoot on oh whatwas the name of that lake out
of Herstair Melanie sent us outof Herstair Quance Lake, sent us
out of Hearst Air Quance Lakeand the black flies and
mosquitoes and horse flies.
It was ridiculous, like I'msure that out of every peak that

(40:08):
there has been in all ofhistory we hit the highest one,
oh my God.
And one night after we did ourday's shoot and everything else,
I thought, ah, you know whatBoys, I was out in one boat and
Ange and Pete were in anotherand I was kind of the pilot of
the boat for Vova who would jumpout of the main boat and then

(40:41):
we would take our our b-rollshots.
So you know when, when you seeAnge and Pete from um outside of
the boat, when the view is fromoutside the boat right and um,
uh, we would drive the boataround their boat and they just
throw a few casts and you getshots like that.
So anyway, after that was allsaid and done, I was the only
one in the boat we're headingback for dinner and I said to
them and I had my bug net and myjacket and pants and everything

(41:08):
and I thought, you know I'll beall right.
And I went out after and justat dusk the fishing was great,
like I mean, the walleye fishingwas spectacular.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
The bugs are the start of the food chain.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Well, I'll tell you what.
And I felt like I was doinggood because that jacket, I had
the whole hat on, I looked likea beekeeper, for Christ's sake,
and I had my belt on real tight.
And then it come time to go in.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
You didn't tuck your pants into your socks.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Well, I did.
I tucked my pants into my socks, that wasn't the issue, but
they crawled up underneath thejacket that I had tied tight and
under my belt and all across mybelt line.
I was eaten alive.
I took my pants off and itlooked like I I was wearing a
red belt and it awful.

(42:06):
Yeah, they're, they're.
They're terrible littlecreatures, but thankfully they
only last, for they don't lastall that long, especially if the
weather continues the way thatit's going to be, if it, if it's
and it's already dry up here-and well, in doke east there
they never go away.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, it's like on the island, it's fine.
But you go over there and likeafter they're gone everywhere
else, you think, okay, yeah, the, the black flies have burnt off
, we should be fine.
Now, for some reason, in youknow, the middle of july, august
, they're gone everywhere else.
You go to doke east and there'slike 17 million Bud's sitting
there walking around and theydon't even affect him, they
bounce off his face.
He doesn't even notice them.

(42:42):
I know I'm like how is this guyeven surviving, right?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
now, I know, I know I guess you just get used to it.
Oh my God, or they don't likeBud's blood because he is out
there and it's funny, becauseI'll get out of the truck and
I'll try and talk to Bud andwe'll be standing there in the
bugs and I am being absolutelyswarmed and Bud's standing there

(43:06):
like there's nothing going on.
Oh, it's crazy, yeah, butanyway.
So the other thing, with thisbeautiful weather, we were
looking at the river and there'sa couple of the last evening.
The wind kicked up in theevening, which was real nice to
have a breeze, but yesterdaymorning it was flat as piss on a

(43:28):
plate and I'm not sure I knowsomebody who says, god, I wish
fishing season was open morethan you.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Well, it's tough to be on the French River.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
This is the longest I've probably ever sat on shore.
What I've ever done, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, well, you're always guiding, right, yeah, so
what are you most excited aboutgoing into this 2025 fishing
season?

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Well, that's a good question.
Well, I always try to catchmore and bigger muskie, so
that's going to be my goal Catchmore and catch bigger.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
So I know for me that bar is set fairly low.
No you know, but where for aguy like Matt O'Brien is that
bar set?

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Oh well, I got to try to beat Kyle.
Kyle got a 57 last year, so Iguess I got to get a 57 and a
quarter bigger 57 and a quarterWow.
Oh, 58.
Well, there was a, so there's a58 and a half, caught last year
too.
Jim Sarek from the MuskieHunter, he showed me the picture
of it at the Toronto SpringFishing and Boat Show.

(44:43):
Really, yeah, so they're outthere.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
What body of water was that Lake Nipissing?
No shit.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, and what's his name from nipissingmuskiescom,
danny Columbia.
Oh yeah, Danny, hey Danny, Imiss you, buddy so danny columbi
, like 15, 10, 15, oh, probably15 years ago now, um he told me
about two 60 inchers that werecaught in in a government net
yeah, m&r, net yeah, he told methe same story.

(45:12):
Yeah, it might have been a 59to 60, something like that yeah,
yeah, yeah yeah so they're outthere, oh yeah yeah, they're out
there for sure.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
So now we've got the bar for size established.
Um, what kind of numbers does aguy like matt o'brien catch?

Speaker 1 (45:27):
well, I've had a few years up in the, you know, the
one 120 range on nipissing, butI'm not really out as much as
I'd like to be, so um okay, okay, okay, hold on.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
So you've got 120 muskies boated roughly how many
and you don't get out as much asyou'd like to get out how many
days, like?
Let's just break down anaverage in seven days across the
season, which runs from thethird Saturday in June until
November 31st.

(46:00):
So I don't even know how manydays are in there.
That's why I'm breaking it down, so it's easier for my brain.
Right On average in a seven-dayperiod.
How many days do you fish foryou to catch those?

Speaker 1 (46:12):
numbers.
Oh, okay, so the best year I'vehad.
I average close to three perday.
Oh my, Not quite.
I think it was 2.8 or 2.76 orsomething like that.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
For every fishing day , yeah, but not necessarily
being out on every fishing day.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
but you averaged that .
No, that's how many days I wason the water, I see.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
So how many days on the water is that?
I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Okay, yeah, so how many days on the water is that?
I can't remember.
Okay, yeah, so I've got the ITbusiness, the family, yeah.
I get it A lot of driving backand forth and stuff, but you
know.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
You'd have to average probably four days out of seven
.
No, no.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
No, well, it depends.
So early is not so much becausethe fishing is tough, so I just
kind of like try to book moreguide trips where the fishing is
better.
Yeah yeah.
Right.
And then later in the year weget the giants yeah Right, but
not as many bites.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, 100%, Because their
metabolism goes down.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, but that's my favorite time of the year to
fish.
That's when you and Pat yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Hey and listen folks, Matt and I are kind of working
together with well, the nativescall it Shelburne Island and
Chaudiere.
We called it Hummingbird Island, but our island.
Here you're going to do alittle guiding out of here in
the fall.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yep, kyle and I have this place booked for a month
and a half.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Kyle Garon.
He's another absolute muskyguru.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
You should get him on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
So him and I do the YouTube videos together, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Slobland yeah, yeah, no, that's, it's going to be
great.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
I'm already pretty much booked, too, for the whole,
the whole time.
It's gonna be great.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
We're gonna be, uh, we're gonna be up here for a
month and a half chasing whaleswell, listen, um, if, uh, if
anybody out there wants to tryand uh, book a little bit of
time with matt and uh and kyle,uh, just reach out to me.
You guys know how to get a holdof me at steven, at
fishincanadacom, and we'll seeif we can make that happen, sure
, yeah, so so now, muskies,obviously you are, you are a

(48:23):
musky fanatic, you're, you'reone of the best musky guides in
in the province, if not thecountry, and and maybe the world
, who knows?
Um, but, um, what, uh, what if,if it's not muskies, you're
still on the water, right?
What do you enjoy next tomuskies?

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Probably smallmouth.
I'd say I love lake troutfishing too Early season, when
the ice comes off on the.
Ocean Bay, we go out and wespank lake trout.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
You guide for that a little bit too, don't you?

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, it's like it's one of my favorite bites of the
year.
Yeah, because you're catching,you know, 40 to 60 fish a day
and they're averaging like 8 to10 pounds.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Oh my God, your arms must be sore.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Oh man, like when I go with JP Bushy.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, yeah, jp, we're going to have him on the show
coming up here for next weekactually.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I heard that yeah, so when I go with him okay, we're
catching so many that he doesn'teven fish he just sits there, I
drop it down, you know, for oneminute, then I reel in a fish
and he just goes like thisunhooks it.
And I drop down fish anotherminute, get a bite, reel it in,
he unhooks it, that's awesome.

(49:38):
Yeah, sometimes you go 10minutes, but not very often.
Yeah, I know that.
You know what the key is, uh,uh, to that lake trout bite too,
is you got to be an early riser.
You go out at noon, you'recatching.
You're gonna catch fish still,but not many.
You got to be out there, youknow.
Maybe, like you know, six inthe morning, even earlier, five
at 5 30 it's when the sun comesup right, depending on the time
of year.
Yeah, if you're up there whenthe sun comes up, right,
depending on the time of year,if you're up there when the sun

(49:59):
comes up, until like 11 o'clock,maybe noon at the latest, it's
on fire.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Well, and I'm fishing with JP most of the time too,
and he's dialed in.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah, and JP does a lot of guiding out of Georgian
Bay there.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Oh yeah, he's the best.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah.
I always tell everybody thatthat to ask that he's the best
multi-species fisherman I'veever met, really, yeah, yeah,
well, he guided for for us atchaudiere for, uh, two seasons,
maybe three, maybe three.
Yeah, yeah, excellent, um,multi-species fisherman, uh, and
, and just an all around fun guyto be around oh yeah, and I do

(50:35):
love the smallmouth too.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
The smallmouth bite up here the last few years has
been fire too.
Um so, as you know, all year,so what?
I don't know why, and I assumeit's to kind of take pressure
off the walleye fishery.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Um, they, they all you're talking about the
regulation change.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
So they moved up the smallmouth opening season by a
month, five weeks, I think.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Well, it was always.
No, it's a month, because bassopened the same weekend as
muskies, which was the thirdSaturday in June.
So they moved, wow.
But it was in conjunction withlowering the walleye.
Well, I don't know whether Ishould use the word lower.

(51:19):
They changed the slot limitagain about three years ago, was
it?
And in conjunction with that,because there was like I mean,
it's tough, especially for lodgeowners who rely on the walleye
fishery a lot, to to to getanother kick.

(51:39):
So I think you're right they,they changed the um season for
bass and moved it up and itopens when everything opens here
right bass and pike and andwalleye weekend yeah, they all
open the third saturday in maywhich is coming up this weekend.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yes, right yeah.
So I'll do like a month ofsmallmouth, right yeah, because
I think it's a month beforemusky open.
Yes, it is.
Yeah, so it's nice, because Ican't fish smallmouth Once
musky's open.
I can't do it Like I'm notgoing bass fishing.
Yeah, it's like a waste of timeBecause then I'm not and I'm

(52:23):
not patterning them, I'm notfinding them for my guests.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Right, if I go bass fishing for three days, that's
three days where I'm not findinga fish for the next uh guide
client.
So that's a great question, orI?
I just thought of a.
I'm calling it a great question.
So you say you, you, it's awaste of time to fish for
smallmouth and we'll come backto smallmouth in that first
month Right.
But on days that you're notguiding, do you go out and do

(52:47):
R&D on your fish?

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yep, but I'm always fishing in spots that I don't
guide on.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Right, I'm trying to find the next best spot.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Or the next best pattern.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Right yeah.
Or the next best pattern yeahRight yeah.
Because I can't go out to thespots, I need to make a living
and blow them myself.
Of course it makes no sense tosting those fish.
I used to.
I used to say that to everybody, and now there's so much
fishing pressure out there too,Everybody's like a lot of people
are fishing a lot of thosespots.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, over the last decade, um, uh, I take, I take
some responsibility, because allof us found them and and either
got them from guys like dannycolumbia or found them together.
And then a lot of people get toknow your boat, get to know the

(53:36):
Shodier boats, hear things,people tell people things and
all of a sudden, all of thoseabsolutely ace spots that we
were using 10 years ago arecommunity spots now.
Yeah, it's crazy, and there'sspots out there that are likely
better and probably are betternow that they don't have any

(53:57):
pressure right well, when I'mout there doing r&d, sometimes I
I find gems so um just talk alittle bit about the process of
r and your, your research anddevelopment, your patterning
process okay, so the first thingI do is I I zoom out.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Okay, so I've got my Navionics map or my yes Right.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
And just to be clear, this is a Navionics map that
Matt has put his own waypointsin, like I mean, nipissing in
the Upper French River ischarted.
But when you look at Pat's mapor your map or the map that
everybody's kind of been workingon together for a long time

(54:40):
back in the day, before youcould auto-write a map, you guys
were putting waypoints in, andnot just for a spot, you were
actually mapping out spots andusing different color waypoints
for different like five-footincrements in depth.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Fish, weeds, rocks, everything, everything.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
So this is the map that you're looking at.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
So to answer your question, though right how I
would go about the R&D.
So the first thing I would dois so say I'm looking at my map
it could be a paper map, itcould be Navionis, it could be
on Google Earth, right and Ilook at the anatomy of a spot
that I do know.
That's good, yeah, like okay,this is killer, right.
But and this has but there's aboat on it every day.

(55:28):
So I'm like, okay, so I justzoom out on your navionics map
so you can see more of the lakeon your on your screen and look
around and say, oh, look, thatlooks exactly the same, or that
looks very similar.
And look at that you.
Oh, look, that looks exactlythe same, or that looks very
similar.
And look at that.
You know it's set up this, it'spointing the same direction,
towards the wind or the sun orthe right.
It's sand or rock, right.
So you just kind of zoom outand then go over and check it
out, drive over it.

(55:48):
Right now they have the autochart where it corrects the maps
.
You don't, yeah, you laywaypoints, down for weeds and
stuff like that and then fish it.
Or you know, sometimes with theelectronics these days you can
just see the muskie.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And when you say, just fish it,kind of break down or tell me
how you would attack a spot whenyou fish it.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Okay, easy.
So the first thing I do istroll it Okay.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Because I need to.
And when you're trolling, doyou troll right up into like
five feet of water?
Yep.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
So the reason I do that is twofold.
Number one it's more efficientbecause To chart it Right, if I
just, yeah, right, if I just tryto check it out at one mile an
hour when I'm casting, I cancover five miles an hour when
I'm trolling, yeah, right.
And number two, the second part, is you need to still catch
them.
Yeah, because like you couldjust go and drive it without a

(56:44):
lure in the water.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, yeah, but that's kind of Right right.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
So I stick one rod out in the prop washer,
something real short, usually aspinner bait, a single hook
spinner bait because it's notgoing to get weeds or rocks or
snags or anything.
Yeah, and I'll just go andcheck it all out yeah, okay, so
you're going to troll it.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
And then, once you troll it and you get an idea of
what the structure looks like,what's the next like when you
start casting it?
What are those pieces ofstructure or combinations of of
cover structure?
Um, what are you looking for?
What's the juice?

Speaker 1 (57:14):
okay, that you look for so my best casting spots
I've ever found in my life, Ifound trolling.
So, say, you have a weed flatthat's three miles long and you
spend your time learning it,mapping it out, putting your
waypoints down, figure it out,but then, as you're trolling and
sometimes it's with clients tooyeah, it's better when you have
four or five lures in the water, right, you start to notice the

(57:37):
the bites are happening in theexact same spot every time.
Yes, or nine times out of ten,right, yeah, you've got 100% of
the water, but 90% of the bitesare always in the same spot.
That's where you want to go andcast.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Right, you kind of narrow it down quick by
eliminating water and is there?

Speaker 2 (57:52):
any defined like have you in your past?
What are the defining featuresthat create that spot where
you're catching them Like athree-mile weed line?
When I look at a three-mileweed line, it all looks like
weeds.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Is it like a little underwater bay created by the
weeds with a rock transition, orwhat are you looking for at
that point?

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I think you're real close there for sure.
You need a transition or an.
What is, what are you lookingfor at that point?
I think you're you're.
You're real close there forsure.
You need a transition or anedge.
Whether it's whether it's rockto weed or or weed to rock to
weed again, or yeah, and usually, uh, for, for big musky, you
want to be close to a deep basin, gotcha.
So if you're in a, if you're ina flat, that's, you know,
nowhere near a basin to me.
Me it's still good and there'smuskies there, but they're not

(58:39):
as good as those ones.
The spots where the fish candrop off and easily access
Deeper water Whitefish in Cisco,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
And well, that brings me to another excellent point.
But just to preface the wholething, every different body of
water has different kinds offeatures and really the most
important thing is being on thewater and doing that, trolling
and catching those fish andseeing where you catch the fish.
And one thing that the bestanglers in the world and I'm

(59:12):
going to freshwater anyway, I'mgoing to put you and Pat Tryon
and Peter Bowman and Kyle Garonand those types and Ange these
types of people the attention todetail and journaling is

(59:32):
ridiculous, and whether when Isay journaling, I'm just talking
about compiling informationfrom every time you're out and
whether you use your phone andthe day that you catch a fish,
you actually physically put pento paper and write down a lot of

(01:00:00):
the information from that day,these the the best thing you can
do is get as much informationdown on the day and and put that
away in the memory bank,because to be able to look back
at that and compare that I knowmy mind is not good enough to be
able to do that- Right,sometimes you remember stuff
wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yeah, exactly.
So the um great point.
Uh, there's pros and cons to towriting it down as opposed to
doing it digitally.
If you do it digitally on acomputer, whether you're using a
calendar or um an Excelspreadsheet, you can quickly
search things right.
Spreadsheet yeah, you canquickly search things right if
you have it in a book and you'relike shit.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
You know, yes, great water temperature.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Right then you're like flipping through 100 pages
where I can just go into searchand go, you know 70 degrees
right, yeah, pops up, and thenI've got the.
I've got it right there.
It's quick, it's fast moreefficient.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
That's.
That's awesome.
And then the last, uh, thepoint that I um that jumped into
my mind when you mentioned theciscos and everything else.
Finding their forage base iskey too, like I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
There's a lot of smelt out in Ipswich too, really
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Yeah so.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Those are, those are the.
It seems to me like the realbig fat ones.
That's what they're eating.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
That's that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
There's not a lot of whitefish.
I mean there's a lot more ciscothan there is whitefish.
I heard there used to be a lotmore whitefish back 50 years ago
, but yeah, they're harder tofind.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
I know there's a ton of cisco, like I mean in the
river in the summertime.
The biomass layer isridiculously thick and huge.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
That's a mix of all three of those, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah yeah, they're a deep water, cold water forage
base for sure.
But so just to kind of sum upthat whole, your whole research
and development and the way thatyou go about it, because I
believe that you do it extremelywell, first and foremost, use
your map and and um and andcompare good spots to find.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Use good spots to find new spots yeah, that looks
similar that looks they mightyou might get over there, and
they're, they're, you know,after looking at the map and see
that they're not similar, yes,right, that's an easy way,
though, to to find a spot thatmight be good, that's right you
still have to go over and andspend time on the water and
figure it out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
It's yeah, it's like when I used to fish bass
tournaments in the winter timeum a guy his name is joss and he
had oh yeah, I know joss fromangling outfitters.
Angling outfitters, yeah, he'sawesome I bought my first
lorance unit from joss and um,what he told me was um, listen,
um.

(01:02:39):
And Joss is very straight tothe point and I was just young,
this is back in the early 2000s.
He said to me listen, I likeyou, I'm going to show you
something.
And he pulled up the map on theLowrance at that time and we
were looking at Lake Simcoe andhe said to me what do you see on

(01:02:59):
the shoreline?
And we're just standing in theshop and I said and there was.
It was almost like back thenthe map had it had detail on the
outside of the shoreline therewas oh no, what it was.
He sold me a chip.
He sold me a chip that had allthe contours of the shoreline.

(01:03:19):
And he put the chip in and nowhe's teaching me.
He says what do you see?
I said, well, I don't see anydefinition in the water, because
it was just for the shoreline.
And I said I don't see anythingreally.
He said you're going to collegeand you don't see nothing.
I said well, I see that there'sa road there.

(01:03:42):
He said, okay, good, I said.
And then in my head I'mthinking well, how is a road
going to help me?
I'm trying to fish bass on LakeSimcoe.
And then, long story short, heexplained to me that look at the
shoreline and you can eliminate90% of the tributaries leading

(01:04:06):
into the lake.
So any freshwater tributary,whether it was a ditch or a
creek or a river, you could seeall of that stuff.

(01:04:27):
And the other thing he saidit's very important to look at
the roads.
Where the roads come close tothe river, it means that there's
a cottage there.
And he said, and I said, okay,but what's the significance of
where a cottage is?
He said well, what do you fish?

(01:04:48):
What do you like to fish?
And then I got it.
I said docks, yes, so for everycottage they have a dock and
you want to go and fish underthose docks.
And he said look at the contourlines.
If the contour lines are areextremely far apart, you know
that typically when you go intothe lake, the, the uh trajectory

(01:05:10):
of the bottom is going tofollow the, the um, uh, the, the
shoreline.
So if it's a really shallowslope going into the water,
chances are there's no deepwater there.
But when the contour lines arereally close together on the
shore, you can almost guaranteethat there's going to be deeper

(01:05:32):
water right up to the shorelineand you're going to want to pick
those docks in combination witha steep shoreline, and you're
going to want to pick thosedocks in combination with a
steep shoreline so that you'vegot water that you can fish, and
that really opened my eyes to alot of pre-fishing that you can
do.
So that goes back to the pointuse your map.

(01:05:55):
Use your map and and pickplaces that look like places
you've already caught fish oryou know our community spots
where people catch fish if youdon't know the water right and
uh, and google maps is reallygood for it too, like or google
earth, same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Yeah, right, the set.
If you click on the satellitebutton on the google maps, you
can zoom out and look at a lake.
Even if you don't haveNavionics maps or Lake Master or
whatever right, you can zoomout and you can see those
underwater structures that areextending out off the island
points and stuff.
You can see them through thesatellite imagery.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Because the satellite imagery is always taken on a
clear day with very little cloudcover, so that you can see, and
the sun's out, and, yes, thoseshoals stick out like sore
thumbs, yeah especially on clearwater.
In clear water, absolutely andthen.
So, once you get there, thenext most important thing is
troll, troll and map.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Well, it's the fastest way to learn the water.
I mean, you could do it faster.
I know guys that are drivingaround 30, 40 miles an hour with
really good transducers,looking for fish, looking for
fish, yes, but then you can'tfish, then you're not angling
anymore.
Yes, right, so at least if yougo five miles an hour or six

(01:07:14):
miles an hour, you can put alure in the water and then you
still have a chance to catch afish.
Yeah, right, and you learn it alittle more intimately.
Or you learn the spot, yes, butyou may not find the fish as
fast.
It's crazy.
Those high speed transducersand and especially on a
fiberglass boat where there's norivets, yeah, you can go really
quick now and like find schoolsinformation yeah yeah, oh, you

(01:07:35):
know you're going 40 miles anhour and you got your side
imaging on that.
You see cisco and you're likeput a waypoint on it.
You, you turn around, slow down, then drive over again, you
find out there's a thousand uhcisco there and you cast it yeah
, well, that's anotherinteresting point that we don't
have time to get into today isusing your forage base as
structure, right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
but um, so then, once you, once you, you kind of map
out that spot and get to know itbetter, then you're looking for
the transitions, the juice,you're looking for the spot on
the spot and, and really, theonly way that you're going to be
able to accurately and moreefficiently not so much
accurately, but more efficientlyum understand those spots is

(01:08:16):
time on the water.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Yeah, you know and you gotta catch fish too, or
else you're not gonna find outthat they're actually good yeah
right, like you can thinkthey're really good, but until
they they prove it out by yeah,by continuously um producing
fish, then then it's just adream.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, but no, hey, matt, listen,
thank you so much for doingthis, for making it possible by
working your computer magic, andI really appreciate this.
I know all of the Diariesfamily appreciates it and I

(01:08:56):
can't wait until we sit down anddo this again.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Hey, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Well, yeah, and now that we have the ability to do
it from the cottage, it mightbecome more of a regular
occurrence.
Yeah, we'll have to do it onvideo, like those superstar
podcasters, oh yeah, well, hey,listen, I've been told I have a
face for radio, but, uh, we'll,uh, yes, we have to start doing

(01:09:22):
that too.
Um, um, but uh, uh, it was a.
It was a great conversation.
We appreciate you um thoroughlyand, um, folks, if you're
interested in Matt's guidingservices, you can.
Um, how can?
What's the best way to get ahold of you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
You can email me at matt-obrien50 at hotmailcom.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
There you go.
And if you don't want to fastforward through the podcast to
get to that, you know you canalways reach out to me and I'll
put you in contact that way too.
And folks head on over tofishingcanadacom where Ange and
Pete always have giveaways going.

(01:10:04):
Get those votes in there.
You know it's so much, there'sso much going on over there.
Buy some Fishing Canada stuff.
And again, thank you to oursponsors Lakeside Marina, Andrew
, we really appreciate you, andWillie, I hope you're feeling a

(01:10:27):
little better and we'll betalking to you soon.
We'll get you, you'll be backon for next week and folks.
Thus brings us to theconclusion of another episode of
diaries of a lodge owner.
Stories of the north go leaves,go, go leaves, go I'm a good

(01:10:49):
old boy never meaning, no harmI'll be making my way.

Speaker 6 (01:11:16):
I'll be making my way , the only way I know how.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Working hard and sharing the north With all of my
pals.

Speaker 6 (01:11:26):
Well, I'm a good old boy.
I bought a lodge and lived mydream.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
And now I'm here talking about how life can be as
good as it seems.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
Back in 2016,.
Frank and I had a vision toamass the single largest
database of muskie anglingeducation material anywhere in
the world.

Speaker 5 (01:11:53):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community and share itwith passionate anglers just
like you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
Thus the Ugly Pike Podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North
America.

Speaker 5 (01:12:07):
Step into the world of angling adventures and
embrace the thrill of the catchwith the Ugly Pike Podcast.
Join us on our quest tounderstand what makes us
different as anglers and touncover what it takes to go
after the infamous fish of10,000 casts.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
The Ugly Pike podcast isn't just about fishing.
It's about creating atight-knit community of
passionate anglers who share thesame love for the sport.
Through laughter, throughcamaraderie and an unwavering
spirit of adventure, thispodcast will bring people
together.

Speaker 5 (01:12:35):
Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our
angling adventures.
Tight lines everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.

Speaker 6 (01:12:50):
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's Favorite
Fishing Show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right.
Every Thursday, ange and I willbe right here in your ears
bringing you a brand new episodeof Outdoor Journal Radio.
Now, what are we going to talkabout for two hours every week?
Well, you know, there's goingto be a lot of fishing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.

Speaker 6 (01:13:16):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors, from athletes, All theother guys would go golfing Me
and Garth and Turk and all theRussians would go fishing.
To scientists.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
But now that we're reforesting and laying things
free, it's the perfecttransmission environment for
life To chefs.

Speaker 5 (01:13:37):
If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you
will taste it.

Speaker 6 (01:13:42):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.