June 16, 2023 • 39 mins
In this episode, I have a seat at the table with my Great Aunt Lil, my Maternal Grandma’s youngest sibling of twelve.
At 89 years young, Aunt Lil is what I call a Modern Trailblazer, with the wit and grit to do anything she sets her mind to. It was such a treat hearing her story and endless determination to reach her ultimate career goal of becoming a Social Worker.
It was also a great privilege to have access to some of my family’s history that traces back to the mid 19th century. It is such an honor to be able to discuss the significance of Juneteenth for my late Great Grandma “Mamma Myrt,” and learn the history of Willow Grove, TX, a community founded by A. W. Crawford and my Great Great Great Great Uncle Buck who sought more opportunity as an ex-slave migrating from the Manning Plantation in Shubuta, MS.
There is always so much to learn from the generations before us. If you have the opportunity, I encourage you to take the time and unleash your curiosity.
Topics Covered:
- Setting goals and making them a reality
- The draw and determination to become a Social Worker
- Willow Grove, TX familial roots
- The importance of Juneteenth
- Acknowledging the detours in life before reaching your destination
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Thanks to Pamoja for supporting Diaries of a Modern Trailblazer
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie (00:01):
I am Stephanie Evans, and this is Diaries of a Modern
Trailblazer.
Take note of the journey and beinspired to forge your own
amazing path.
Thank you Aunt Lil for takingthe time to be part of this
podcast.
I love how you've been so openand excited about sharing your
(00:23):
time, a bit of our family'shistory and your story, even
though you don't know much aboutwhat a podcast is yet.
I'm fortunate to have a seat atthe table with you.
Somebody who I call like ourfamily's historian.
Tell us a bit about who you areand your background.
Aunt Lil (00:45):
My name is Lillian Dorothy Manning.
I'm the youngest child of myparents Authur James Manning and
Myrtle Holmes Manning.
There were 12 of us in ourfamily.
I'm the youngest of 12, and Igrew up since age nine, in this
(01:10):
house come December the 20th ofthis year.
This has been our family homefor 80 years, and except for
when I was away in school awayone year, I lived out on Long
Island in New York, but exceptfor being in school, this has
(01:34):
always been my home.
As I said early on, we movedhere when I was nine and I was
in third grade at South WacoElementary School, and from that
point on, I went into Moore HighSchool, graduated in May of
1953, and would you know thatour class was called the tornado
(02:00):
class, because that was the yearof the severe tornado in Waco,
which occurred on May 11th,1953.
And as the news recorded, therewere 114 people lost their
lives.
So following graduation, guesswhat?
Stephanie (02:24):
What?
Aunt Lil (02:26):
Guess where I was on June the 6th, 1953.
I was at your mother's and youraunt's first birthday party.
Stephanie (02:41):
Wow.
Aunt Lil (02:42):
Did I ever tell you that?
Stephanie (02:45):
I know you were at one of their birthday parties
when they were very young
Aunt Lil (02:49):
When, but when they were one year old, I was at
their birthday party because Ihad gone after I had graduated
from high school, I had gone toSt.
Paul for the summer and got ajob at Frank Murphy's
department, ladies ready to weara shop.
And I worked there until, Iguess around September 1st in
Stephanie (03:12):
That was in Minnesota?
Aunt Lil (03:13):
Uhhuh in St.
Paul.
Stephanie (03:15):
Cool.
Aunt Lil (03:16):
But anyway so that following September I enrolled
at Texas Southern University asa freshman.
Then following graduation thatSeptember, or rather in October,
I got hired by our Board ofMissions of the Methodist
(03:40):
Church, and my assignment was inthe coal fields of West
Virginia.
So I stayed there from 1957until 1960, and I was raring to
go to graduate school so that Icould get my master's in social
(04:00):
work.
As it turned out, I got ascholarship to Scarritt College
for Christian Workers, which wasour Methodist church school, but
they did not have the master'sdegree in social work.
They had a master's degree incommunity work.
(04:22):
That really wasn't what Iwanted, so I stayed there for
one year and I was still, mygoal was to still get an MSW.
Through the channels of workingand trying to see what uh, set
my goals, I ended up returninghome, right?
(04:46):
Right here we would, my parentswere still living in this house,
so I returned.
That was in 1963.
I returned here, home to Waco.
And believe it or not, Ienrolled at Paul Quinn College
to get my teaching certificatebecause it just seemed I don't
(05:07):
know if I'm gonna ever get myMSW, so I'll just, I'll get a
teaching certificate and I canteach.
So I went to Paul Quinn that onesemester and received a teaching
certificate.
So that's why every time there'ssomething going on with Paul
(05:28):
Quinn, I still brag about myhaving gone to Paul Quinn, just
as though if I had received aPhD from Paul Quinn, because I
think Paul Quinn is veryimportant.
It was important back then.
It's important today, eventhough they have moved to
Dallas.
By the way, my dad attended PaulQuinn College, and my oldest
(05:49):
sister attended Paul QuinnCollege Rosetta, who is now
looking toward her 103rdbirthday come July.
So I had my dad, my oldestsister, and Sarah, another
sister who finished Paul Quinnand taught here in Waco for 30
(06:11):
years, and then my brotherReuben, who had graduated from
high school Moore High, wentinto the military, came out,
went on to get his doctoraldegree, and he ended up as
President of Paul Quinn College.
So when you say Paul QuinnCollege, to me, that rings a
very important bell because Ijust revere and will always
(06:37):
revere and respect Paul QuinnCollege.
Stephanie (06:41):
Yeah.
And I didn't know that aboutyour father.
Aunt Lil (06:44):
He went to Paul Quinn.
I don't have the year and I havetalked to the librarian since
they have relocated to Dallasand asked her where can I find
some data that would reflect aterm paper he turned in, or the
day he was admitted.
(07:04):
Just some,
Stephanie (07:05):
yeah like a student log or something to indicate the
timing
Aunt Lil (07:10):
that would indicate that he was there.
I wish I could.
But anyway it was during thetime following when school was
out that spring and I had gottenmy master's, my teaching
certificate, I still wasn't sosatisfied because I still wanted
to get my master's degree insocial work.
(07:33):
So I applied to the Universityof Texas and guess what?
At that time, the GRE graduaterecord exam was required.
Stephanie (07:44):
I even took the GRE
Aunt Lil (07:45):
record exam and the minimum requirement was 1000.
And guess what?
I made 937 and that threw meout.
I couldn't go.
I didn't make, I didn't make athousand.
So they were, saying you tried,but it didn't work.
(08:08):
Anyway, I I got a job still notteaching, even though I'd gotten
the teaching certificate fromPaul, at Paul Quinn.
I got a job working at HustonTillotson, which is now
Huston-Tillotson University, butin 1963 it was Huston-Tillotson
College.
(08:29):
I got a job as the as assistantcounselor of women, which was
equivalent on most campuses asthe Assistant Dean of Women.
So I worked there, and while Iwas there I met a Methodist
Deaconess.
She had been assigned to work atHuston-Tillotson College.
(08:55):
So from time to time we wouldmeet and talk and share our
Methodist relationship.
And I suppose at some point intime we talked about my still
wanting to get my master'sdegree in social work.
And guess what she said?
Why don't you try AtlantaUniversity that is an all black
(09:18):
college and see what happens?
I told her that I had applied atthe University of Texas, but my
G R E was not high enough.
And she suggested that I tryAtlanta University.
And I did.
I applied and within the purviewof their evaluating what they
(09:43):
saw on my transcript, I gotaccepted.
However, they told me withwithin one of the communications
that there were no morescholarships available.
But come on, if, if you haveyour own money, fine, we'll meet
you at the door.
Just come on in.
And of course, I did not havecollege money.
(10:05):
Guess what?
I got a phone call.
It was the dean from the AtlantaUniversity, saying that they had
one more scholarship availableand what had happened, the
reason they had that scholarshipwas because the student that
they had given it to had changedher mind, and they immediately
called me and said, you can haveit if you want it.
(10:30):
We got one more.
And it's because this otherstudent turned hers, turned it
back in, and I said yes.
Stephanie (10:36):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
Aunt Lil (10:38):
I could still be saying yes.
Even today.
Because I was so grateful and Iwas grateful to God that this
had happened, that he had made away for me.
And I left on September 12th,1965, going to Atlanta and I
(10:59):
arrived and was getting, gotinto the dormitory and all of
that.
And one of the things that I'llalways remember as we were
gathering, all the students weregathering in the dormitory, and
we were getting to talk aboutwhere we were from, somebody was
from Dallas and Houston, andsomewhere from upstate New York
or Pennsylvania or Ohio orwherever, we were all telling
(11:23):
where we were from.
And so doing, the students weretalking about my flight I flew
here.
I flew here on Delta.
I flew on American Airlines.
I flew on Southwest.
I flew on the, they were namingoff all these different airlines
that they had flown to Atlantaon.
And then, they knew that I hadcome from Waco, Texas.
(11:43):
And so they were asking me howis your flight down?
And I had to I came on aGreyhound Bus.
And not that I was embarrassed,but it just sound like that they
were so sophisticated, havingflown down to Atlanta.
And poor me, I just didn't.
Make it on the Greyhound bus.
(12:03):
But I made it.
Stephanie (12:04):
Yeah, you made it.
Aunt Lil (12:04):
That's the key to it.
That's what...
Stephanie (12:06):
exactly!
Aunt Lil (12:06):
we said.
It's not how you got there, butyou got there.
But the commencement, I'll haveto tell you about the
commencement.
As we were required to turn incertain written assignments and
certain this, and, working ondifferent things.
When I turned in my thesis, ofcourse I turned it in
(12:26):
prayerfully, hoping that it gotapproved and all of that.
As the thesis were beingapproved, our names went on the
bulletin board in the lobby atthe school of social work
building.
So every day we would go look atthe board, whose name is on
there, whose name is on there,have they put your John Jones
(12:48):
and Mary Smith, and all thesenames up there.
So I looked up there and Ididn't see my name.
I go again, I didn't see myname.
May 6th 1968, my name went upsaying that I was on the
(13:09):
approval list for graduation.
I had been approved forgraduation on the 6th of May,
1968, and commencement wasscheduled for June 3rd, 1968, so
June 3rd, 1968, my name wascalled when the School of Social
(13:34):
Work Department stood to gettheir degrees.
You talk about your journeytowards getting that degree,
that master's degree in socialwork.
What initially made you want tobecome a social worker?
At my high school here, MooreHigh School, we had what was
known as vocational day.
(13:56):
People from the community wouldcome and talk to you whatever
field,
Stephanie (13:59):
Like a career day.
Aunt Lil (14:01):
Career day, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Career day.
We had career day at our highschool.
And people were there teacherswere there.
Would you like to become ateacher?
Would you like to become adoctor?
What do you wanna be a dentist?
You wanna be this and you wannado this, and you wanna be this
and you wanna do that?
My math teacher, who by the way,had gone to the University of
(14:24):
Minnesota and because he wasfrom Waco here and he met up
with your mom.
And, everything else is historyas they say, but,
Stephanie (14:32):
Are you talking about my grandma
Aunt Lil (14:33):
Yeah, your grand.
Yeah.
Your grandmother.
I'm talking Yeah.
Uhhuh.
So anyway he knew me throughthem.
He knew that I was their littlesister.
Stephanie (14:42):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (14:43):
And so the lady who came, I believe as a social
worker that talked to us aboutsocial work, worked out here at
the Waco VA.
I believe that's who that personwas.
But anyway, he told me, he said,go in that room.
They're talking about socialwork.
He said, I believe you wouldmake a good social worker.
(15:03):
And he was my math teacher.
Which is a thousand miles fromsocial work.
Stephanie (15:06):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (15:09):
But anyway, he told me to go in that room.
They were talking about becominga social worker, and I did.
And I don't know, I just saidyeah, that sounds interesting.
I think I will.
And I, but I'm trying to think,what grade was I in?
I wasn't a senior in highschool.
Oh.
I don't even remember what gradeI was in.
But anyway, I followed thatdream, so to speak.
(15:31):
So that when I graduated fromhigh school and went to Texas
Southern, they didn't havesocial work per se, so I took
sociology.
I got my bachelor's degree insociology, which was not social
work.
What is sociology, when yougetting ready to get a job?
Stephanie (15:51):
Yeah.
Valid point.
Aunt Lil (15:53):
So that, that's what happened.
That made me even, I just hadthe bachelor's in sociology, but
I knew down the road and up theroad, someday I was gonna have
to get a degree in social workto become a social worker.
Stephanie (16:11):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (16:13):
So from the time that I did graduate from high school
in 1953.
Help me do the math to 68.
How many years is that?
Is that 15?
15, right.
Three from eight,
Stephanie (16:28):
yeah.
15.
Aunt Lil (16:29):
Yeah.
15.
15 years later I got my master'sdegree in social work.
Stephanie (16:34):
I know a lot of social workers.
Yeah.
My mom, aunt, and then mychildhood best friend, she's
actually working on her master'sdegree for social work.
Aunt Lil (16:47):
And then while I was working here at the VA before I
retired I talked to anothergirlfriend who worked during the
day and she drove to U T AArlington.
And got her doctorate and shetried to encourage oh no, that,
that's too much trouble.
I you have to go, because shewas taking classes at night
(17:10):
after she got off from work.
Like from six to nine, and thenyou got to drive back from
Arlington to Waco and then getup the next morning and go to
work.
And I said, I don't uhuh that,that's not me.
I don't want to do that.
Yeah.
And I think the rationale forit, the reason for it is because
my job did not require adoctoral degree.
(17:33):
Had I been in education,teaching at a college or
something like that, yes, Icould see maybe going further to
get a doctoral degree.
But the job that I had as asocial worker here at the Waco
VA Hospital did not require adoctoral degree.
So I didn't follow through ontit.
Stephanie (17:50):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (17:51):
And the lady that was doing the she taught said she
taught it Paul Quinn.
Stephanie (17:55):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Aunt Lil (17:56):
And then I think that's why that was, yeah.
Stephanie (18:00):
There's an area in Texas that's deeply rooted in
our family history.
Can you share more about WillowGrove?
Aunt Lil (18:09):
Yes, I can.
And I am delighted to.
According to the most recenthistory, The Willow Grove
community was founded by mygreat-great uncle, which would
be your great uncle WilliamManning, affectionately called
(18:29):
Uncle Buck.
Stephanie (18:30):
He'd be like my great.
Aunt Lil (18:32):
Yeah, I think there are four greats.
Stephanie (18:35):
Yeah, four greats.
Aunt Lil (18:37):
Uncle William Manning affectionately called Uncle Buck
by all whether related or not.
According to historical data,Uncle Buck and several of his
relatives, including mygrandfather, who was only eight
years old, left the Manningplantation in Shubuta
(19:00):
Mississippi, and headed to Texasin a covered wagon.
The trip was not easy to say theleast.
However, they arrived in Texasand one baby was born on the
Texas, Louisiana border.
Her mother named her Texanabecause of where she was born.
(19:22):
Of course, there were many upsand downs as the ex slaves
traveled and made decisionswhere to settle Upon arrival in
Valley Mills, Texas, which isoutside of Waco, Uncle Buck
wanted to buy land and settlesomewhere in that area.
(19:43):
Uncle Buck had met a gentlemanby the name of Andrew W
Crawford, who like Uncle Buckhad been fathered by a white
slave master.
As the story unfolds, the twogentlemen put their heads
together, and because of hiscolor, Andrew Crawford was able
(20:06):
to purchase 320 acres offarmland in Willow Grove, which
was paid for by Uncle Buck.
The owner would not sell theland directly to Uncle Buck
because of his color.
And to really seal the contract,Andrew Crawford later married
(20:26):
Uncle Buck's sister, whom we allcalled her so lovingly, Aunt
Harriet.
This plott of land wasconsidered prime farmland, and
many of the settlers who camefrom Shubuta bought various
plots of land, thus theRenaissance of Willow Grove
community.
(20:48):
My father, Arthur James Manning,who is your great grandfather
was the first son and firstchild born to Rueben and Mentha
Eaves Manning born October the27th, 1878 was the first child
(21:10):
born at Willow Grove.
And since that time, all otherswho were born, grew up, lived in
the Willow Grove community havereally felt that the family
connection is what Willow Groveis all about.
From the 320 acres of landpurchased, Uncle Buck donated
(21:32):
one acre of land for the WillowGrove Baptist Church, one acre
of land for the Willow GroveElementary School, and one acre
for the Willow Grove Cemetery.
Have you been to Willow Grove?
Stephanie (21:48):
I don't think so.
Aunt Lil (21:49):
You got to go.
You gotta,
Stephanie (21:51):
yeah
Aunt Lil (21:51):
you gotta go.
Stephanie (21:52):
I have to
Aunt Lil (21:52):
You gotta go.
The Willow Grove CemeteryAssociation was founded in 1935.
I was one year old and it isstill active and alive today
with active members.
And you are remember!
Stephanie (22:07):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (22:07):
It is still active and alive today.
With an active Willow GroveCemetery Association Board of
Directors, which meets regularlyto discuss and handle all
matters pertaining to burials,the upkeep of the cemetery and
the perpetual fund to keep thecemetery cared for in years to
(22:29):
come.
Okay that's Willow Grove.
You have any other furtherquestions?
Stephanie (22:34):
No, not on Willow Grove.
Just given our family's historyand us being descendants of
slaves here in America, whatdoes Juneteenth mean to you?
Aunt Lil (22:47):
Juneteenth is very important to me.
I've always recognized it, andwanted to celebrate.
In fact, I now again, I can goback to Willow Grove because
every 19th of June on the churchgrounds, we always had a special
day, a picnic day or whatever.
(23:09):
And I believe also that may havebeen a cleanup cemetery date
too, if I remember correctly.
But I know we always hadsomething at the church and...
Stephanie (23:21):
growing up?
Aunt Lil (23:22):
Yes.
That's how, that's what I saidbetween the 1935 and the 1941.
These are the years that I'mtalking about.
Stephanie (23:28):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (23:29):
And I remember he was our cousin.
He, but his wife was really ourcousin, so we called him cousin
too.
Cousin Caleb.
We always had down what theycalled it down on the grounds.
The families would cook, wouldbring fried chicken and cake and
potato salad and stuff up to thechurch, and we would eat and
(23:50):
we'd have back then and there.
Are you familiar with the termsoda water?
Stephanie (23:55):
Yes.
Aunt Lil (23:56):
Okay.
Cousin Caleb had a tub and hewould put ice in it and he'd put
soda water in the tub.
And as children, I can remember,if you wanted a bottle of soda
water—— you good?
And what flavor do you want,baby?
I want what we said strawberryback then.
Big Red or whatever.
That's what I liked.
(24:16):
And so he would give us a bottleof soda water.
I don't think we had to pay forit.
I think it was the food wasfree.
And we'd get a bottle of sodawater to eat with our food, and
the children would play games,and we'd see people.
And it was just like a familypicnic.
But on the church grounds.
And that's how we, we wouldcelebrate, the 19th June out
(24:38):
there.
But now going back historically,the most historical event in my
great-grandmother's vice, whichwould've been Ethel's
great-grandmother.
Okay, now you take it fromthere.
If she was Ethel'sgreat-grandmother, then what Ken
would she be to you?
But anyway
Stephanie (24:58):
She'd be my great-great-great-grandmother.
Aunt Lil (25:01):
Okay.
So the most historical event inher life was the day that she
heard that she was free.
And my mother remembered herbecause she always said that she
shouted all day long.
Free at last.
Free at last.
Thank God Almighty I'm free atlast.
(25:22):
And she said that she justshouted all day long the day she
learned that she was free.
That's what she
Stephanie (25:28):
So that was, that was Mama Myrt's grandmother?
Aunt Lil (25:33):
Yeah.
Her grandmother.
These were my greatgrandmother's words.
And her name was Laura Bookman,who lived in Grimes County and
Grimes County is out fromHouston, near Huntsville and
down in
Stephanie (25:49):
Okay
Aunt Lil (25:49):
that way somewhere.
Do you know where Grimes Countyis?
Stephanie (25:53):
Never heard of Grimes County until today.
Aunt Lil (25:55):
That's where mama was from.
Mama was born in Grimes Countyand all down in there.
We have a church and it might begone now, but it's called
David's Chapel Methodist Church.
And that's at Shiro.
Shiro is somewhere in theHuntsville area, I think.
(26:18):
But going to, all of that'sgoing towards Houston.
Stephanie (26:21):
Okay.
Aunt Lil (26:22):
So sometimes, like we always say, it tickles me
sometimes when you talking witha person, they say if you don't
have anything else to do.
If you don't have anything elseto do, you can, come to church
Sunday.
So I'm, so if you don't haveanything else to do, look up and
see if you can find anythingcalled Shiro.
(26:42):
Shiro Cemetery and David'sChapel Methodist Church.
Stephanie (26:51):
Okay.
Aunt Lil (26:52):
It might be all gone now.
But that's where a lot of mama'skin folks are buried, at that
cemetery.
Now, getting back to theJuneteenth.
Juneteenth was always importantto my mom, and she always wanted
to go to Mexia, to thecelebration in the community
commemorating Juneteenth.
Stephanie (27:13):
And where's Mexia?
Aunt Lil (27:14):
Huh?
Stephanie (27:15):
Where's Mexia?
Is that nearby?
Aunt Lil (27:18):
Mexia is in Limestone County on Highway 84.
No, you're talking about a lotof stuff.
I don't know.
I don't really know much.
If you keep highway 84 uhhuh.
I was here, here in wa.
Okay.
You pick up eight, I think it's39 miles or something like that
to Mexia.
Stephanie (27:35):
Okay.
Aunt Lil (27:36):
But Mexia is where mama has a lot of kin folks and
stuff there.
Juneteenth was always importantto my mom as she always wanted
to go to Mexia, to thecelebration in commemorating the
Juneteenth and what it meant toblack people.
As I recall, she stated in herearly years she had lived in a
(27:57):
small rural community calledCedar.
One time when Richard was here,we went through Mexia and all
that and we saw Cedar, it'slittle stop in the road.
So that's where they lived inCedar, when she was, I think she
was five.
Yeah.
And a small rural communitycalled Cedar in Limestone
County.
Her family had moved there whenshe was five years old, and
(28:21):
every year as a child, herfamily had gone to Comanche.
And that's, that was a biggrounds of celebration, where
they celebrated the 19th ofJune, they had a religious
service and a preacher wouldpreach and people would bring
food to eat and talk and,communicate, and just enjoyed
(28:41):
themselves for this Juneteenthcelebration.
So she had gone there for manyyears, but after becoming grown
and married and moving toMcClellan County, she rejoiced
in celebrating Juneteenthwherever she lived, and thought
that all black folk shouldcelebrate the same.
(29:03):
When I graduated from Atlantaand got hired to work out here
at the Waco VA Hospital, I gothired, I started to work on June
the 17th, which was two daysaway from the 19th of June.
And so the morning of the 19thof June, she asked me could I
take her to the 19th of Junecelebration at Mexia.
(29:26):
And I told her well, that I hadonly been at work two days, so I
couldn't take off.
Stephanie (29:30):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (29:31):
But she was, I think she got AJ to take her.
You remember AJ?
Stephanie (29:36):
Yep.
Aunt Lil (29:36):
Yeah.
Uhhuh.
So I think she got him to takeher.
But anyway, she always wanted togo to the Juneteenth celebration
at Comanche.
Cause this is where she wouldrun into people that she knew as
a child when she lived at Cedarand they would come to town to
(29:56):
Mexia and that's what they call,come into town to get groceries
and buy clothes or whatever.
Stephanie (30:03):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (30:04):
But she enjoyed celebrating the 19th of June.
Stephanie (30:07):
Yeah.
I've celebrated Juneteenthgrowing up as a child, being in
Galveston County.
Aunt Lil (30:14):
Yeah.
Now that's where I want to gobecause last year LA LaRay
Brenda's son went down.
And somebody else from here.
Oh, some old cousins from WillowGrove.
They went down to Galveston andone of my sorrors went down to
Galveston.
They got a big to-do down there,but I've never gone.
Stephanie (30:35):
Yeah.
I mean it's interesting becausenow Juneteenth is a national
holiday.
Yeah.
And that.
That was not a thing what, maybethree years ago?
So it, it's great that it is awidespread national holiday that
people do know about andactually celebrate.
(30:58):
And it was something that, wewould celebrate locally down
here in Texas.
But.
Yeah, I just, I thought it wouldbe great to just share some of
the history around our family,because we are here in Texas and
have so much history around it.
Aunt Lil (31:17):
Now, one of the other places where we used to live
right outside of called SouthBosque, they would give us a
sheep to eat.
But yeah, we they wrecked up thewhite, we were tenant farmers
what we call tenant farmers.
And they would, they recognizedthat this was one of our,
supposed to be famous holidays,so they would always didn't want
(31:40):
my dad to work and my brother AJand them to work that day.
And so they were nice aboutgiving us the was it a sheep, a
goat, a sheep, that we supposedto be eating.
And yeah, they always wanted usto be off.
Stephanie (31:53):
That's nice.
Aunt Lil (31:56):
Yeah.
The 19th.
Are they going to, I know, likeyou say, they it's important.
So they're look really lookingfor a big to-do thing this year
down at Galveston.
Stephanie (32:07):
I don't know.
Aunt Lil (32:08):
Oh, okay.
Okay.
I wanna go to one.
Stephanie (32:12):
This would be my first year being down here
around, I was in Texas in 2020,but that was covid.
Aunt Lil (32:24):
Yeah.
No, I,
Stephanie (32:26):
and nobody was doing anything.
Not really.
Aunt Lil (32:28):
It seems like to me, what are they?
We are having something in thesorority on that day.
I've forgotten that but I'm not,they don't say I'm not on
program.
So I'm, if I can get hooked upwith somebody I may come down
and see what's going on inGalveston.
Because I've heard them talkabout, how it's really a big
(32:49):
deal down there.
Stephanie (32:50):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (32:51):
It's almost as big a deal as they, they had the, like
I said, up here in Mexia atComanche.
That was a big deal.
It's called the Booker T, butreally, we call it Comanche.
But I think the national name isthe Booker T Washington National
Park.
That's where it's held.
But they call it Comanche.
(33:12):
This is where my mom met herpartner.
It wasn't my daddy, but herfirst husband.
The Alexander man.
She met him and he was fromMart.
Have you ever heard of Mart?
M-A-R-T.
Stephanie (33:24):
No.
Aunt Lil (33:24):
It's right down the road here too from Waco.
Stephanie (33:27):
Oh, okay.
Aunt Lil (33:28):
But it's still in McClenan County rather than
Mexia.
Yes indeed.
Stephanie (33:34):
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that bitof history with us.
And I just wanna go back to yourstory and just, reflect on where
you are now.
So what's your motto?
Aunt Lil (33:53):
I believe in God.
I have faith in God.
And I trust in God in everythingthat I do, regardless of where
I'm going or what I'm doing hereand there.
It's those three things.
Like you say, the Father, Son,and the Holy Ghost.
Those are the three that I liveby.
Stephanie (34:13):
What's your proudest accomplishment?
Aunt Lil (34:17):
My proudest accomplishment would be, to have
received my master's degree insocial work because it didn't
come easy.
I didn't just pick it up by theside road.
Like I said I went to Scarrittthinking that, I was, but they
didn't have an MSW.
(34:37):
They had a Master's in socialwork— a masters in, no, what was
it called?
Anyway, they didn't have theMSW.
So I just said, no, I got to gosomewhere and get an MSW.
And then when I did receive, asI said, my greatest
accomplishment was when I saw myname May 6th, 1968, that I had
(35:02):
completed all of therequirements for the degree.
And my name went up on theboard.
That's what everybody did.
Your name on the board today?
Your name on the board?
Your name on the board?
When I saw my name on the board,my thesis had been approved and
I had been cleared I guessthat's a good word for it.
I had been cleared forcommencement for graduation.
(35:24):
And then I graduated.
And then the other good thingabout it was that I didn't have
to go to Timbuktu.
I didn't have to go back to St.
Paul.
I didn't have to go to get ajob.
I got a job right here in Wacoat the VA.
Because the other thing thathappened while I was up in West
Virginia working, Sarah calledme one night and said that the
(35:45):
doctor said that my daddy wasn'tgonna live till the next
morning.
And then you see you have toscrounge around and have to...
Do you have enough money to flyhome?
Do you have?
You just got to stop what you'redoing and fly home right quick.
So that was why I wanted toreally get here to Waco.
Stephanie (36:00):
Yeah.
I was gonna ask.
Aunt Lil (36:01):
Yeah, because I had got...
Somebody...
Oh yeah— opening.
Where was it in?
It was a place in Connecticut.
No, I said I'll get up there inConnecticut and get a call
saying my mom was sick and,whatever.
And I got to fly home rightquick and— no I can't handle
that.
And then there was another placeup in Battle Creek, Michigan, I
think, or somewhere.
Oh, they got a job up there.
(36:22):
They got an opening up there.
But no Uhuh.
Cause I didn't wanna have to beway off, out of state somewhere
and have to fly home because ofillness.
So I said, no, I'm gonna gohome.
If anything happens, then I'llbe right there.
Stephanie (36:35):
Yeah.
Proximity.
It's good.
Aunt Lil (36:37):
Yeah.
That was the rationale why I wasglad that I got hired out here
to Waco VA.
Stephanie (36:41):
And you had a lot of experiences outside of Texas for
sure.
In hindsight what advice wouldyou tell the younger version of
yourself?
Aunt Lil (36:54):
Put God first and do set some goals.
And the one thing you can set agoals.
Say, I want this and I wantthis, and I wanna do this, and I
wanna do that, and I wanna dothat.
You may not be able to do all ofthat, but the important thing is
you may have to detour.
(37:16):
Sometimes that happens.
I want this over here, andyou're right there, but before
you can get here, you may haveto detour and it might take
years, but if you really wantthat, you just, just persevere.
And make sure that God wantsthat for you too.
(37:38):
I, oh, I want...
But God might say, Uhuh, no, youdon't need to go there.
This is what, this is where Iwant you to go over here.
Instead of you wanna go that wayand you want over there.
But this is what I want for you.
Stephanie (37:54):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (37:55):
That, that happens sometimes.
Stephanie (37:57):
Yeah, indeed.
For sure.
Thank you Aunt Lil for yourtime.
Thank you for sharing ourfamily's history.
And I learned a lot about yourupbringing and the drive to
become a social worker.
That was really interesting.
Thank you so much.
(38:18):
And that's a wrap.
So own it and make moves oneday.
I wanna share your journey onthis podcast.
I am Stephanie Evans, and this is Diaries of a Modern
Trailblazer.
Take note of the journey and beinspired to forge your own
amazing path.
Thank you Aunt Lil for takingthe time to be part of this
podcast.
I love how you've been so openand excited about sharing your
(00:23):
time, a bit of our family'shistory and your story, even
though you don't know much aboutwhat a podcast is yet.
I'm fortunate to have a seat atthe table with you.
Somebody who I call like ourfamily's historian.
Tell us a bit about who you areand your background.
Aunt Lil (00:45):
My name is Lillian Dorothy Manning.
I'm the youngest child of myparents Authur James Manning and
Myrtle Holmes Manning.
There were 12 of us in ourfamily.
I'm the youngest of 12, and Igrew up since age nine, in this
(01:10):
house come December the 20th ofthis year.
This has been our family homefor 80 years, and except for
when I was away in school awayone year, I lived out on Long
Island in New York, but exceptfor being in school, this has
(01:34):
always been my home.
As I said early on, we movedhere when I was nine and I was
in third grade at South WacoElementary School, and from that
point on, I went into Moore HighSchool, graduated in May of
1953, and would you know thatour class was called the tornado
(02:00):
class, because that was the yearof the severe tornado in Waco,
which occurred on May 11th,1953.
And as the news recorded, therewere 114 people lost their
lives.
So following graduation, guesswhat?
Stephanie (02:24):
What?
Aunt Lil (02:26):
Guess where I was on June the 6th, 1953.
I was at your mother's and youraunt's first birthday party.
Stephanie (02:41):
Wow.
Aunt Lil (02:42):
Did I ever tell you that?
Stephanie (02:45):
I know you were at one of their birthday parties
when they were very young
Aunt Lil (02:49):
When, but when they were one year old, I was at
their birthday party because Ihad gone after I had graduated
from high school, I had gone toSt.
Paul for the summer and got ajob at Frank Murphy's
department, ladies ready to weara shop.
And I worked there until, Iguess around September 1st in
Stephanie (03:12):
That was in Minnesota?
Aunt Lil (03:13):
Uhhuh in St.
Paul.
Stephanie (03:15):
Cool.
Aunt Lil (03:16):
But anyway so that following September I enrolled
at Texas Southern University asa freshman.
Then following graduation thatSeptember, or rather in October,
I got hired by our Board ofMissions of the Methodist
(03:40):
Church, and my assignment was inthe coal fields of West
Virginia.
So I stayed there from 1957until 1960, and I was raring to
go to graduate school so that Icould get my master's in social
(04:00):
work.
As it turned out, I got ascholarship to Scarritt College
for Christian Workers, which wasour Methodist church school, but
they did not have the master'sdegree in social work.
They had a master's degree incommunity work.
(04:22):
That really wasn't what Iwanted, so I stayed there for
one year and I was still, mygoal was to still get an MSW.
Through the channels of workingand trying to see what uh, set
my goals, I ended up returninghome, right?
(04:46):
Right here we would, my parentswere still living in this house,
so I returned.
That was in 1963.
I returned here, home to Waco.
And believe it or not, Ienrolled at Paul Quinn College
to get my teaching certificatebecause it just seemed I don't
(05:07):
know if I'm gonna ever get myMSW, so I'll just, I'll get a
teaching certificate and I canteach.
So I went to Paul Quinn that onesemester and received a teaching
certificate.
So that's why every time there'ssomething going on with Paul
(05:28):
Quinn, I still brag about myhaving gone to Paul Quinn, just
as though if I had received aPhD from Paul Quinn, because I
think Paul Quinn is veryimportant.
It was important back then.
It's important today, eventhough they have moved to
Dallas.
By the way, my dad attended PaulQuinn College, and my oldest
(05:49):
sister attended Paul QuinnCollege Rosetta, who is now
looking toward her 103rdbirthday come July.
So I had my dad, my oldestsister, and Sarah, another
sister who finished Paul Quinnand taught here in Waco for 30
(06:11):
years, and then my brotherReuben, who had graduated from
high school Moore High, wentinto the military, came out,
went on to get his doctoraldegree, and he ended up as
President of Paul Quinn College.
So when you say Paul QuinnCollege, to me, that rings a
very important bell because Ijust revere and will always
(06:37):
revere and respect Paul QuinnCollege.
Stephanie (06:41):
Yeah.
And I didn't know that aboutyour father.
Aunt Lil (06:44):
He went to Paul Quinn.
I don't have the year and I havetalked to the librarian since
they have relocated to Dallasand asked her where can I find
some data that would reflect aterm paper he turned in, or the
day he was admitted.
(07:04):
Just some,
Stephanie (07:05):
yeah like a student log or something to indicate the
timing
Aunt Lil (07:10):
that would indicate that he was there.
I wish I could.
But anyway it was during thetime following when school was
out that spring and I had gottenmy master's, my teaching
certificate, I still wasn't sosatisfied because I still wanted
to get my master's degree insocial work.
(07:33):
So I applied to the Universityof Texas and guess what?
At that time, the GRE graduaterecord exam was required.
Stephanie (07:44):
I even took the GRE
Aunt Lil (07:45):
record exam and the minimum requirement was 1000.
And guess what?
I made 937 and that threw meout.
I couldn't go.
I didn't make, I didn't make athousand.
So they were, saying you tried,but it didn't work.
(08:08):
Anyway, I I got a job still notteaching, even though I'd gotten
the teaching certificate fromPaul, at Paul Quinn.
I got a job working at HustonTillotson, which is now
Huston-Tillotson University, butin 1963 it was Huston-Tillotson
College.
(08:29):
I got a job as the as assistantcounselor of women, which was
equivalent on most campuses asthe Assistant Dean of Women.
So I worked there, and while Iwas there I met a Methodist
Deaconess.
She had been assigned to work atHuston-Tillotson College.
(08:55):
So from time to time we wouldmeet and talk and share our
Methodist relationship.
And I suppose at some point intime we talked about my still
wanting to get my master'sdegree in social work.
And guess what she said?
Why don't you try AtlantaUniversity that is an all black
(09:18):
college and see what happens?
I told her that I had applied atthe University of Texas, but my
G R E was not high enough.
And she suggested that I tryAtlanta University.
And I did.
I applied and within the purviewof their evaluating what they
(09:43):
saw on my transcript, I gotaccepted.
However, they told me withwithin one of the communications
that there were no morescholarships available.
But come on, if, if you haveyour own money, fine, we'll meet
you at the door.
Just come on in.
And of course, I did not havecollege money.
(10:05):
Guess what?
I got a phone call.
It was the dean from the AtlantaUniversity, saying that they had
one more scholarship availableand what had happened, the
reason they had that scholarshipwas because the student that
they had given it to had changedher mind, and they immediately
called me and said, you can haveit if you want it.
(10:30):
We got one more.
And it's because this otherstudent turned hers, turned it
back in, and I said yes.
Stephanie (10:36):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
Aunt Lil (10:38):
I could still be saying yes.
Even today.
Because I was so grateful and Iwas grateful to God that this
had happened, that he had made away for me.
And I left on September 12th,1965, going to Atlanta and I
(10:59):
arrived and was getting, gotinto the dormitory and all of
that.
And one of the things that I'llalways remember as we were
gathering, all the students weregathering in the dormitory, and
we were getting to talk aboutwhere we were from, somebody was
from Dallas and Houston, andsomewhere from upstate New York
or Pennsylvania or Ohio orwherever, we were all telling
(11:23):
where we were from.
And so doing, the students weretalking about my flight I flew
here.
I flew here on Delta.
I flew on American Airlines.
I flew on Southwest.
I flew on the, they were namingoff all these different airlines
that they had flown to Atlantaon.
And then, they knew that I hadcome from Waco, Texas.
(11:43):
And so they were asking me howis your flight down?
And I had to I came on aGreyhound Bus.
And not that I was embarrassed,but it just sound like that they
were so sophisticated, havingflown down to Atlanta.
And poor me, I just didn't.
Make it on the Greyhound bus.
(12:03):
But I made it.
Stephanie (12:04):
Yeah, you made it.
Aunt Lil (12:04):
That's the key to it.
That's what...
Stephanie (12:06):
exactly!
Aunt Lil (12:06):
we said.
It's not how you got there, butyou got there.
But the commencement, I'll haveto tell you about the
commencement.
As we were required to turn incertain written assignments and
certain this, and, working ondifferent things.
When I turned in my thesis, ofcourse I turned it in
(12:26):
prayerfully, hoping that it gotapproved and all of that.
As the thesis were beingapproved, our names went on the
bulletin board in the lobby atthe school of social work
building.
So every day we would go look atthe board, whose name is on
there, whose name is on there,have they put your John Jones
(12:48):
and Mary Smith, and all thesenames up there.
So I looked up there and Ididn't see my name.
I go again, I didn't see myname.
May 6th 1968, my name went upsaying that I was on the
(13:09):
approval list for graduation.
I had been approved forgraduation on the 6th of May,
1968, and commencement wasscheduled for June 3rd, 1968, so
June 3rd, 1968, my name wascalled when the School of Social
(13:34):
Work Department stood to gettheir degrees.
You talk about your journeytowards getting that degree,
that master's degree in socialwork.
What initially made you want tobecome a social worker?
At my high school here, MooreHigh School, we had what was
known as vocational day.
(13:56):
People from the community wouldcome and talk to you whatever
field,
Stephanie (13:59):
Like a career day.
Aunt Lil (14:01):
Career day, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Career day.
We had career day at our highschool.
And people were there teacherswere there.
Would you like to become ateacher?
Would you like to become adoctor?
What do you wanna be a dentist?
You wanna be this and you wannado this, and you wanna be this
and you wanna do that?
My math teacher, who by the way,had gone to the University of
(14:24):
Minnesota and because he wasfrom Waco here and he met up
with your mom.
And, everything else is historyas they say, but,
Stephanie (14:32):
Are you talking about my grandma
Aunt Lil (14:33):
Yeah, your grand.
Yeah.
Your grandmother.
I'm talking Yeah.
Uhhuh.
So anyway he knew me throughthem.
He knew that I was their littlesister.
Stephanie (14:42):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (14:43):
And so the lady who came, I believe as a social
worker that talked to us aboutsocial work, worked out here at
the Waco VA.
I believe that's who that personwas.
But anyway, he told me, he said,go in that room.
They're talking about socialwork.
He said, I believe you wouldmake a good social worker.
(15:03):
And he was my math teacher.
Which is a thousand miles fromsocial work.
Stephanie (15:06):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (15:09):
But anyway, he told me to go in that room.
They were talking about becominga social worker, and I did.
And I don't know, I just saidyeah, that sounds interesting.
I think I will.
And I, but I'm trying to think,what grade was I in?
I wasn't a senior in highschool.
Oh.
I don't even remember what gradeI was in.
But anyway, I followed thatdream, so to speak.
(15:31):
So that when I graduated fromhigh school and went to Texas
Southern, they didn't havesocial work per se, so I took
sociology.
I got my bachelor's degree insociology, which was not social
work.
What is sociology, when yougetting ready to get a job?
Stephanie (15:51):
Yeah.
Valid point.
Aunt Lil (15:53):
So that, that's what happened.
That made me even, I just hadthe bachelor's in sociology, but
I knew down the road and up theroad, someday I was gonna have
to get a degree in social workto become a social worker.
Stephanie (16:11):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (16:13):
So from the time that I did graduate from high school
in 1953.
Help me do the math to 68.
How many years is that?
Is that 15?
15, right.
Three from eight,
Stephanie (16:28):
yeah.
15.
Aunt Lil (16:29):
Yeah.
15.
15 years later I got my master'sdegree in social work.
Stephanie (16:34):
I know a lot of social workers.
Yeah.
My mom, aunt, and then mychildhood best friend, she's
actually working on her master'sdegree for social work.
Aunt Lil (16:47):
And then while I was working here at the VA before I
retired I talked to anothergirlfriend who worked during the
day and she drove to U T AArlington.
And got her doctorate and shetried to encourage oh no, that,
that's too much trouble.
I you have to go, because shewas taking classes at night
(17:10):
after she got off from work.
Like from six to nine, and thenyou got to drive back from
Arlington to Waco and then getup the next morning and go to
work.
And I said, I don't uhuh that,that's not me.
I don't want to do that.
Yeah.
And I think the rationale forit, the reason for it is because
my job did not require adoctoral degree.
(17:33):
Had I been in education,teaching at a college or
something like that, yes, Icould see maybe going further to
get a doctoral degree.
But the job that I had as asocial worker here at the Waco
VA Hospital did not require adoctoral degree.
So I didn't follow through ontit.
Stephanie (17:50):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (17:51):
And the lady that was doing the she taught said she
taught it Paul Quinn.
Stephanie (17:55):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Aunt Lil (17:56):
And then I think that's why that was, yeah.
Stephanie (18:00):
There's an area in Texas that's deeply rooted in
our family history.
Can you share more about WillowGrove?
Aunt Lil (18:09):
Yes, I can.
And I am delighted to.
According to the most recenthistory, The Willow Grove
community was founded by mygreat-great uncle, which would
be your great uncle WilliamManning, affectionately called
(18:29):
Uncle Buck.
Stephanie (18:30):
He'd be like my great.
Aunt Lil (18:32):
Yeah, I think there are four greats.
Stephanie (18:35):
Yeah, four greats.
Aunt Lil (18:37):
Uncle William Manning affectionately called Uncle Buck
by all whether related or not.
According to historical data,Uncle Buck and several of his
relatives, including mygrandfather, who was only eight
years old, left the Manningplantation in Shubuta
(19:00):
Mississippi, and headed to Texasin a covered wagon.
The trip was not easy to say theleast.
However, they arrived in Texasand one baby was born on the
Texas, Louisiana border.
Her mother named her Texanabecause of where she was born.
(19:22):
Of course, there were many upsand downs as the ex slaves
traveled and made decisionswhere to settle Upon arrival in
Valley Mills, Texas, which isoutside of Waco, Uncle Buck
wanted to buy land and settlesomewhere in that area.
(19:43):
Uncle Buck had met a gentlemanby the name of Andrew W
Crawford, who like Uncle Buckhad been fathered by a white
slave master.
As the story unfolds, the twogentlemen put their heads
together, and because of hiscolor, Andrew Crawford was able
(20:06):
to purchase 320 acres offarmland in Willow Grove, which
was paid for by Uncle Buck.
The owner would not sell theland directly to Uncle Buck
because of his color.
And to really seal the contract,Andrew Crawford later married
(20:26):
Uncle Buck's sister, whom we allcalled her so lovingly, Aunt
Harriet.
This plott of land wasconsidered prime farmland, and
many of the settlers who camefrom Shubuta bought various
plots of land, thus theRenaissance of Willow Grove
community.
(20:48):
My father, Arthur James Manning,who is your great grandfather
was the first son and firstchild born to Rueben and Mentha
Eaves Manning born October the27th, 1878 was the first child
(21:10):
born at Willow Grove.
And since that time, all otherswho were born, grew up, lived in
the Willow Grove community havereally felt that the family
connection is what Willow Groveis all about.
From the 320 acres of landpurchased, Uncle Buck donated
(21:32):
one acre of land for the WillowGrove Baptist Church, one acre
of land for the Willow GroveElementary School, and one acre
for the Willow Grove Cemetery.
Have you been to Willow Grove?
Stephanie (21:48):
I don't think so.
Aunt Lil (21:49):
You got to go.
You gotta,
Stephanie (21:51):
yeah
Aunt Lil (21:51):
you gotta go.
Stephanie (21:52):
I have to
Aunt Lil (21:52):
You gotta go.
The Willow Grove CemeteryAssociation was founded in 1935.
I was one year old and it isstill active and alive today
with active members.
And you are remember!
Stephanie (22:07):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (22:07):
It is still active and alive today.
With an active Willow GroveCemetery Association Board of
Directors, which meets regularlyto discuss and handle all
matters pertaining to burials,the upkeep of the cemetery and
the perpetual fund to keep thecemetery cared for in years to
(22:29):
come.
Okay that's Willow Grove.
You have any other furtherquestions?
Stephanie (22:34):
No, not on Willow Grove.
Just given our family's historyand us being descendants of
slaves here in America, whatdoes Juneteenth mean to you?
Aunt Lil (22:47):
Juneteenth is very important to me.
I've always recognized it, andwanted to celebrate.
In fact, I now again, I can goback to Willow Grove because
every 19th of June on the churchgrounds, we always had a special
day, a picnic day or whatever.
(23:09):
And I believe also that may havebeen a cleanup cemetery date
too, if I remember correctly.
But I know we always hadsomething at the church and...
Stephanie (23:21):
growing up?
Aunt Lil (23:22):
Yes.
That's how, that's what I saidbetween the 1935 and the 1941.
These are the years that I'mtalking about.
Stephanie (23:28):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (23:29):
And I remember he was our cousin.
He, but his wife was really ourcousin, so we called him cousin
too.
Cousin Caleb.
We always had down what theycalled it down on the grounds.
The families would cook, wouldbring fried chicken and cake and
potato salad and stuff up to thechurch, and we would eat and
(23:50):
we'd have back then and there.
Are you familiar with the termsoda water?
Stephanie (23:55):
Yes.
Aunt Lil (23:56):
Okay.
Cousin Caleb had a tub and hewould put ice in it and he'd put
soda water in the tub.
And as children, I can remember,if you wanted a bottle of soda
water—— you good?
And what flavor do you want,baby?
I want what we said strawberryback then.
Big Red or whatever.
That's what I liked.
(24:16):
And so he would give us a bottleof soda water.
I don't think we had to pay forit.
I think it was the food wasfree.
And we'd get a bottle of sodawater to eat with our food, and
the children would play games,and we'd see people.
And it was just like a familypicnic.
But on the church grounds.
And that's how we, we wouldcelebrate, the 19th June out
(24:38):
there.
But now going back historically,the most historical event in my
great-grandmother's vice, whichwould've been Ethel's
great-grandmother.
Okay, now you take it fromthere.
If she was Ethel'sgreat-grandmother, then what Ken
would she be to you?
But anyway
Stephanie (24:58):
She'd be my great-great-great-grandmother.
Aunt Lil (25:01):
Okay.
So the most historical event inher life was the day that she
heard that she was free.
And my mother remembered herbecause she always said that she
shouted all day long.
Free at last.
Free at last.
Thank God Almighty I'm free atlast.
(25:22):
And she said that she justshouted all day long the day she
learned that she was free.
That's what she
Stephanie (25:28):
So that was, that was Mama Myrt's grandmother?
Aunt Lil (25:33):
Yeah.
Her grandmother.
These were my greatgrandmother's words.
And her name was Laura Bookman,who lived in Grimes County and
Grimes County is out fromHouston, near Huntsville and
down in
Stephanie (25:49):
Okay
Aunt Lil (25:49):
that way somewhere.
Do you know where Grimes Countyis?
Stephanie (25:53):
Never heard of Grimes County until today.
Aunt Lil (25:55):
That's where mama was from.
Mama was born in Grimes Countyand all down in there.
We have a church and it might begone now, but it's called
David's Chapel Methodist Church.
And that's at Shiro.
Shiro is somewhere in theHuntsville area, I think.
(26:18):
But going to, all of that'sgoing towards Houston.
Stephanie (26:21):
Okay.
Aunt Lil (26:22):
So sometimes, like we always say, it tickles me
sometimes when you talking witha person, they say if you don't
have anything else to do.
If you don't have anything elseto do, you can, come to church
Sunday.
So I'm, so if you don't haveanything else to do, look up and
see if you can find anythingcalled Shiro.
(26:42):
Shiro Cemetery and David'sChapel Methodist Church.
Stephanie (26:51):
Okay.
Aunt Lil (26:52):
It might be all gone now.
But that's where a lot of mama'skin folks are buried, at that
cemetery.
Now, getting back to theJuneteenth.
Juneteenth was always importantto my mom, and she always wanted
to go to Mexia, to thecelebration in the community
commemorating Juneteenth.
Stephanie (27:13):
And where's Mexia?
Aunt Lil (27:14):
Huh?
Stephanie (27:15):
Where's Mexia?
Is that nearby?
Aunt Lil (27:18):
Mexia is in Limestone County on Highway 84.
No, you're talking about a lotof stuff.
I don't know.
I don't really know much.
If you keep highway 84 uhhuh.
I was here, here in wa.
Okay.
You pick up eight, I think it's39 miles or something like that
to Mexia.
Stephanie (27:35):
Okay.
Aunt Lil (27:36):
But Mexia is where mama has a lot of kin folks and
stuff there.
Juneteenth was always importantto my mom as she always wanted
to go to Mexia, to thecelebration in commemorating the
Juneteenth and what it meant toblack people.
As I recall, she stated in herearly years she had lived in a
(27:57):
small rural community calledCedar.
One time when Richard was here,we went through Mexia and all
that and we saw Cedar, it'slittle stop in the road.
So that's where they lived inCedar, when she was, I think she
was five.
Yeah.
And a small rural communitycalled Cedar in Limestone
County.
Her family had moved there whenshe was five years old, and
(28:21):
every year as a child, herfamily had gone to Comanche.
And that's, that was a biggrounds of celebration, where
they celebrated the 19th ofJune, they had a religious
service and a preacher wouldpreach and people would bring
food to eat and talk and,communicate, and just enjoyed
(28:41):
themselves for this Juneteenthcelebration.
So she had gone there for manyyears, but after becoming grown
and married and moving toMcClellan County, she rejoiced
in celebrating Juneteenthwherever she lived, and thought
that all black folk shouldcelebrate the same.
(29:03):
When I graduated from Atlantaand got hired to work out here
at the Waco VA Hospital, I gothired, I started to work on June
the 17th, which was two daysaway from the 19th of June.
And so the morning of the 19thof June, she asked me could I
take her to the 19th of Junecelebration at Mexia.
(29:26):
And I told her well, that I hadonly been at work two days, so I
couldn't take off.
Stephanie (29:30):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (29:31):
But she was, I think she got AJ to take her.
You remember AJ?
Stephanie (29:36):
Yep.
Aunt Lil (29:36):
Yeah.
Uhhuh.
So I think she got him to takeher.
But anyway, she always wanted togo to the Juneteenth celebration
at Comanche.
Cause this is where she wouldrun into people that she knew as
a child when she lived at Cedarand they would come to town to
(29:56):
Mexia and that's what they call,come into town to get groceries
and buy clothes or whatever.
Stephanie (30:03):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (30:04):
But she enjoyed celebrating the 19th of June.
Stephanie (30:07):
Yeah.
I've celebrated Juneteenthgrowing up as a child, being in
Galveston County.
Aunt Lil (30:14):
Yeah.
Now that's where I want to gobecause last year LA LaRay
Brenda's son went down.
And somebody else from here.
Oh, some old cousins from WillowGrove.
They went down to Galveston andone of my sorrors went down to
Galveston.
They got a big to-do down there,but I've never gone.
Stephanie (30:35):
Yeah.
I mean it's interesting becausenow Juneteenth is a national
holiday.
Yeah.
And that.
That was not a thing what, maybethree years ago?
So it, it's great that it is awidespread national holiday that
people do know about andactually celebrate.
(30:58):
And it was something that, wewould celebrate locally down
here in Texas.
But.
Yeah, I just, I thought it wouldbe great to just share some of
the history around our family,because we are here in Texas and
have so much history around it.
Aunt Lil (31:17):
Now, one of the other places where we used to live
right outside of called SouthBosque, they would give us a
sheep to eat.
But yeah, we they wrecked up thewhite, we were tenant farmers
what we call tenant farmers.
And they would, they recognizedthat this was one of our,
supposed to be famous holidays,so they would always didn't want
(31:40):
my dad to work and my brother AJand them to work that day.
And so they were nice aboutgiving us the was it a sheep, a
goat, a sheep, that we supposedto be eating.
And yeah, they always wanted usto be off.
Stephanie (31:53):
That's nice.
Aunt Lil (31:56):
Yeah.
The 19th.
Are they going to, I know, likeyou say, they it's important.
So they're look really lookingfor a big to-do thing this year
down at Galveston.
Stephanie (32:07):
I don't know.
Aunt Lil (32:08):
Oh, okay.
Okay.
I wanna go to one.
Stephanie (32:12):
This would be my first year being down here
around, I was in Texas in 2020,but that was covid.
Aunt Lil (32:24):
Yeah.
No, I,
Stephanie (32:26):
and nobody was doing anything.
Not really.
Aunt Lil (32:28):
It seems like to me, what are they?
We are having something in thesorority on that day.
I've forgotten that but I'm not,they don't say I'm not on
program.
So I'm, if I can get hooked upwith somebody I may come down
and see what's going on inGalveston.
Because I've heard them talkabout, how it's really a big
(32:49):
deal down there.
Stephanie (32:50):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (32:51):
It's almost as big a deal as they, they had the, like
I said, up here in Mexia atComanche.
That was a big deal.
It's called the Booker T, butreally, we call it Comanche.
But I think the national name isthe Booker T Washington National
Park.
That's where it's held.
But they call it Comanche.
(33:12):
This is where my mom met herpartner.
It wasn't my daddy, but herfirst husband.
The Alexander man.
She met him and he was fromMart.
Have you ever heard of Mart?
M-A-R-T.
Stephanie (33:24):
No.
Aunt Lil (33:24):
It's right down the road here too from Waco.
Stephanie (33:27):
Oh, okay.
Aunt Lil (33:28):
But it's still in McClenan County rather than
Mexia.
Yes indeed.
Stephanie (33:34):
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that bitof history with us.
And I just wanna go back to yourstory and just, reflect on where
you are now.
So what's your motto?
Aunt Lil (33:53):
I believe in God.
I have faith in God.
And I trust in God in everythingthat I do, regardless of where
I'm going or what I'm doing hereand there.
It's those three things.
Like you say, the Father, Son,and the Holy Ghost.
Those are the three that I liveby.
Stephanie (34:13):
What's your proudest accomplishment?
Aunt Lil (34:17):
My proudest accomplishment would be, to have
received my master's degree insocial work because it didn't
come easy.
I didn't just pick it up by theside road.
Like I said I went to Scarrittthinking that, I was, but they
didn't have an MSW.
(34:37):
They had a Master's in socialwork— a masters in, no, what was
it called?
Anyway, they didn't have theMSW.
So I just said, no, I got to gosomewhere and get an MSW.
And then when I did receive, asI said, my greatest
accomplishment was when I saw myname May 6th, 1968, that I had
(35:02):
completed all of therequirements for the degree.
And my name went up on theboard.
That's what everybody did.
Your name on the board today?
Your name on the board?
Your name on the board?
When I saw my name on the board,my thesis had been approved and
I had been cleared I guessthat's a good word for it.
I had been cleared forcommencement for graduation.
(35:24):
And then I graduated.
And then the other good thingabout it was that I didn't have
to go to Timbuktu.
I didn't have to go back to St.
Paul.
I didn't have to go to get ajob.
I got a job right here in Wacoat the VA.
Because the other thing thathappened while I was up in West
Virginia working, Sarah calledme one night and said that the
(35:45):
doctor said that my daddy wasn'tgonna live till the next
morning.
And then you see you have toscrounge around and have to...
Do you have enough money to flyhome?
Do you have?
You just got to stop what you'redoing and fly home right quick.
So that was why I wanted toreally get here to Waco.
Stephanie (36:00):
Yeah.
I was gonna ask.
Aunt Lil (36:01):
Yeah, because I had got...
Somebody...
Oh yeah— opening.
Where was it in?
It was a place in Connecticut.
No, I said I'll get up there inConnecticut and get a call
saying my mom was sick and,whatever.
And I got to fly home rightquick and— no I can't handle
that.
And then there was another placeup in Battle Creek, Michigan, I
think, or somewhere.
Oh, they got a job up there.
(36:22):
They got an opening up there.
But no Uhuh.
Cause I didn't wanna have to beway off, out of state somewhere
and have to fly home because ofillness.
So I said, no, I'm gonna gohome.
If anything happens, then I'llbe right there.
Stephanie (36:35):
Yeah.
Proximity.
It's good.
Aunt Lil (36:37):
Yeah.
That was the rationale why I wasglad that I got hired out here
to Waco VA.
Stephanie (36:41):
And you had a lot of experiences outside of Texas for
sure.
In hindsight what advice wouldyou tell the younger version of
yourself?
Aunt Lil (36:54):
Put God first and do set some goals.
And the one thing you can set agoals.
Say, I want this and I wantthis, and I wanna do this, and I
wanna do that, and I wanna dothat.
You may not be able to do all ofthat, but the important thing is
you may have to detour.
(37:16):
Sometimes that happens.
I want this over here, andyou're right there, but before
you can get here, you may haveto detour and it might take
years, but if you really wantthat, you just, just persevere.
And make sure that God wantsthat for you too.
(37:38):
I, oh, I want...
But God might say, Uhuh, no, youdon't need to go there.
This is what, this is where Iwant you to go over here.
Instead of you wanna go that wayand you want over there.
But this is what I want for you.
Stephanie (37:54):
Yeah.
Aunt Lil (37:55):
That, that happens sometimes.
Stephanie (37:57):
Yeah, indeed.
For sure.
Thank you Aunt Lil for yourtime.
Thank you for sharing ourfamily's history.
And I learned a lot about yourupbringing and the drive to
become a social worker.
That was really interesting.
Thank you so much.
(38:18):
And that's a wrap.
So own it and make moves oneday.
I wanna share your journey onthis podcast.
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