November 28, 2025 • 30 mins
Today we get into the messy reality of being a single Muslim in a world obsessed with labels. We talk about how people use “religious,” “conservative,” and “liberal” as shortcuts instead of actually getting to know someone—and how that leaves so many amazing matches dismissed before the first conversation even starts.
We also dig into family judgments, unfair assumptions, and what happens when someone is written off because of their parents, not their own character. If you’re tired of being boxed in, misunderstood, or filtered out by vibes instead of values, this episode will feel like a deep exhale.
If something we said made you think, laugh, or feel seen, leave us a rating and review! It helps more people find the show. And hey, if you know someone who needs to hear this episode, send it their way. Sharing is caring!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Assalamu alaikum.
I'm Hiba.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
And I'm Zayd.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
SPEAKER_02 (00:09):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah.
SPEAKER_02 (00:17):
Assalamu alaikum, everyone.
Welcome to a new episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Assalamu alaikum.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Okay, let's hit this off with a question.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
As always.
SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
Okay.
Would you have married a girlwho doesn't pray?
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
That was fast.
Yeah.
Okay.
Care to elaborate?
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
For me, salah is a deal breaker.
I feel like it should be formost people.
I mean, if you're practicingMuslim and you're considering
marriage and the person you talkto doesn't pray, I think that
should be of serious concern.
I mean, for me personally, yes.
I it would be a major, major redflag.
(00:57):
Because if you were born andraised into the religion and
you're not making an effort,like if you fall short, you miss
a prayer here or there, I Itotally get it.
But uh if it's a consistentpractice that you're not
praying, I don't want to bemarried to a person where I feel
like I'm imposing religion onthem.
SPEAKER_02 (01:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
Where I have to like teach them or educate them about
the importance of prayer.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
So regardless of the circumstance?
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
I can't think of a circumstance um of a Muslim
living in the West that would bepreventing them from praying.
unknown (01:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Okay, and what about you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:38):
I think I would consider the person as a whole.
I'm not saying prayer is notimportant, but if I see a person
who checks all my boxes, he's agood person, he has a Muslim
character, as in his he's kind,he's respectful, he's honest,
uh, he stays away from haram.
(01:59):
Uh he has a connection withAllah, but he doesn't pray.
But if I see someone like this,and um I see a sincere desire
for him to improve and grow.
Like, for example, he might saysomething like, I know I'm not
praying now, I know it's it'snot right.
It is something I'm strugglingwith to be consistent, it is
(02:19):
something I'm working onimproving.
I make dua every day that Allahguides me to salah, and I hope
that you can help me in thisarea, we can grow together, all
of that.
Then I know this is a person whohas an intention, who has a
desire, who's not happy wherethey are right now.
So this is someone you can workwith.
But if he says something like, Idon't pray, and please don't
(02:42):
pressure me.
This is something between me andAllah.
I'll pray when I'm when peoplesay that.
Me too.
I'll pray when the time isright.
This is who I am.
Take me as I am, or just don't.
Then that's a person I can to bewith.
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
So two things there.
Number one, it's not yourspouse's responsibility to help
you perform the basic uh ritualsof faith.
Either you come with that or youdon't.
Like, yes, it is a realisticexpectation for you to have of a
spouse to help you growspiritually, financially, um,
self-growth, uh, you know,health-wise, whatever.
(03:18):
That that's that's fair.
But to put that responsibilityon your spouse, I don't like
that, that's number one.
And number two, I feel this kindof goes against a rule that we
always share in our workshop,which is don't marry potential,
marry reality.
There's certain things that Iwould be flexible on and certain
(03:39):
things that yes, if a person isdemonstrating desire to grow or
change, um, I'd be okay withthat, like health, um, finances,
things like that.
But a lot, you know, the onething that um the one of the
most important things thatseparates us from other faiths
or other groups, it's just it'shard for me to overlook that.
SPEAKER_02 (04:02):
Okay, you know what?
This just uh reminded me ofsomething.
So my best friend she wastalking to her cousin, they
sarcastically or randomly, theymet online because he grew up in
a different place and all ofthat.
And um he didn't pray.
Her dad said, Absolutely not.
(04:23):
I'm not gonna give you away to aguy who doesn't pray.
The guy started to pray.
And as far as I know, he wasconsistent with his prayers.
She married him.
Turns out he's an abusivehusband, and now she's divorced
with two kids.
Extremely abusive.
So you see, prayer is noteverything.
And the being pushed and beingand being pushed to pray just to
(04:47):
please the other person doesn'tnecessarily guarantee a good
character, a good marriage, agood future.
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
That's not what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02 (04:55):
I know, I know.
But I'm just talking aboutanother extreme.
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
I feel like it's the basics for me.
Like for example, uh I know I'mkind of splitting hairs, but the
for example, we know in Islamthe basic responsibility for a
man has to be uh to be able toprovide food, shelter, clothing,
general care for wife.
That's like the basic, basiccriteria.
For me, my personal basiccriteria, or one of them, is
(05:23):
somebody who prays, who has abasic understanding of their
faith.
And if they don't have that,like God, I can't teach you.
But it doesn't mean just becauseI'm not marrying a student.
SPEAKER_02 (05:36):
But just because they don't pray, it doesn't mean
they don't have a basicunderstanding.
It means that they arestruggling with something.
They might be working on it,they might be making dua and
like praying to Allah every day.
Oh Allah, guide me to pray.
I want to pray, I want tocommit, guide me to you.
It doesn't mean they don't havethat.
Maybe they just lack in uhdiscipline.
(05:57):
Maybe they didn't grow up in theright environment.
Maybe they are struggling withsome like personal issues,
right?
So I feel that just like puttinguh this general statement that
no, I won't marry a somebody whodoesn't pray is just unfair.
Because it just gives thisimpression that everyone who
(06:17):
doesn't pray have no basicunderstanding of their deen,
have no connection to Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala, they are
not proud of their deen, andthat's not the case.
SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
I don't know.
Like, what reason can youpossibly have not to pray?
Like how like how hard is it tojust get up with doo?
Like, I know I'm oversimplifyingit, but we're not living in a
war-torn country, we're notliving in a rocket.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
You know what?
Some people used to pray andthen stopped praying because
they because of trauma.
Because of trauma or becausethey feel they're just
performing, they don't feel anytype of khushua.
You know, we go in our liveswith ups and downs in our deen,
with our deen.
So they decided, no, I'm notgonna go back to praying until I
feel that my heart is connected.
(07:04):
And that's not right.
But that's a different personthan somebody who just doesn't
pray because they don't careabout prayer.
SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
So there are different some people maybe go
through uh I don't know, uh acrisis.
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Uh, I feel like you're way more flexible than I
am.
SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
I don't know.
I just like to give people thebenefit of the doubt and just
understand that people come indifferent uh shapes and forms
and circumstances and lifeexperiences and I guess I would
I wouldn't stop theconversation, but I would love
to learn more and understandwhat's really going on there.
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
And if I'm hearing something like you just shared
where, you know, they're kind ofshutting off the conversation by
saying, Oh, don't judge me forit, it's between me and Allah.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
Okay, let me ask you a question.
Would you marry an alcoholaddict Muslim, but uh he's
showing a desire to change?
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
Why?
SPEAKER_02 (08:00):
It's not out of judgment or anything, but
because addiction is a disease.
Get help, get well how I don'tI'm not I don't buy the fact
that it's a disease.
Okay, that's another discussionfor another day.
Because if we start uh I'm notsaying it's a disease that you
just you're genetically bornwith or like you just get like a
(08:22):
could something contagious, butonce your brain is just uh
programmed to wanting that uhthat uh alcohol and that
intoxication, then uh like it'suh all chemicals in the brain.
But yeah, get well, have sometime, not just like finish a
program and then you're ready.
No, get well, have supportsystem, have some time to just
(08:45):
work on yourself, and then we'llsee.
But doing a haram is differentfrom not doing a fart.
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Okay, fair point, but it is still a sin.
Yes at the end of the day.
Yeah, so you would be okay withsomebody not praying, but you
would not be okay with somebodydrinking.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Just like I said, I'm okay.
I I'll be open to talking tosomeone who doesn't pray, who's
showing a desire, who's showingan intention, who's making dua,
who wants to improve, and whorealizes they're doing something
wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
The alcoholic is trying to do the same thing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
Yeah, but uh but but addiction is not just a decision
you make, okay, tomorrow I'm I'mgonna stop the drinking.
SPEAKER_00 (09:30):
He's taking gradual steps, he's showing a sincere
desire.
SPEAKER_02 (09:33):
Yes, but until until you're completely cured, until
you're completely sober, youthere's no guarantee you're not
gonna slip back.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
There's no guarantee the person's gonna slip back
spiritually and stop raining.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
Well, there's no guarantee that uh a half or a
niqhabi is just gonna remove thethe thing and just uh uh stop
rain.
It happens.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Okay, now we're just playing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
No, no, no.
But regardless, regardless.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
Yeah, regardless.
So the point is that we seethese common patterns among
clients all the time.
One of them being this constantneed to uh put yourself in a
certain box.
So, for example, in my personallife, when I was trying to get
married, I always felt like Ididn't fit into certain boxes.
People have had these certainexpectations of me when I was
(10:19):
trying to get married.
And I'm sure for those of youguys that are on your journey
trying to get married, you'veprobably faced these kinds of
circumstances where you knowyou're not religious enough for
this family, you're not uhfinancially well enough for this
family, you're not educatedenough for this family, you
don't have that medical degree,that law degree, engineering
degree, whatever it is.
And so you're always striving tomeet certain expectations when
(10:41):
at the end of the day, n none ofthis goes in line with our deen.
Like for me, like Alhamdulillah,I went to a private Islamic
school most of my life.
I completed my hifs, I have abasic understanding of Arabic, I
would consistently attendworkshops and conventions, and
so I felt like like religiouslythat you know maybe I was going
(11:03):
a maybe uh one or two stepsbeyond like the average person.
Yet for some reason some peoplejust felt I wasn't religious
enough.
And uh it was just it was just astrange phenomenon.
SPEAKER_02 (11:16):
Why is that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
Because I I just wanted to know what else I could
do.
Like, do I need to go become analim?
Do I need to go like um learntafsir of the Qur'an?
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
No, no, no.
I mean, why did some peoplethink you're not religious
enough?
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Because at least in Chicago, there's a strong um
what do you call TJ community,the Blih Jamat community.
And so I would see a lot ofthose families sometimes.
Like, for example, I would go tothe family, the the family's
house, and I'd be sitting there,and you would just get this vibe
and energy that they're just avery hardcore um religious
(11:52):
family, right?
Where there's the TV's not on,there's Quranic scriptures all
around, there's a mushaf onevery shelf, the Adan is playing
every five minutes.
I don't know why.
Okay.
Um, the father's got a beardthat goes down to his knees, and
the mother's in a khabi, andyou're just like, oh boy, I
(12:13):
don't know.
I don't know if I'm gonnasurvive this.
Because that's that's just notme.
Oh, and the other reason isbecause somehow, somehow, people
would find out that I was moreinclined towards the arts and I
would listen to music.
And uh, right.
So when people would hear thesethings, they would think, oh
man, this guy's one of those uhwishy-washy Muslims, you know,
(12:34):
he's one of those weekendMuslims, and which I wasn't, you
know.
I was just like, this is wheremy heart is, and I know what's
haram and halal.
I have a basic understanding ofmy deen, but and I know the
things that I'm doing are notforbidden in my faith.
You know, the the thing that Ican proudly say about my journey
without any arrogance is that Inever sold out.
(12:55):
Alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah, Inever sold out for the
education, I never sold out formoney, I never sold out for
religion, I never tried to besomething I wasn't.
I always stay true to what Ilove, which was art.
I've always loved music, and uhI've never veered away from
that.
And so that's why when I wastalking to you, that was one of
the first questions I asked you.
(13:15):
Like, how do you feel about art?
How do you feel about music?
Right.
Alhamdulillah, I found somebodythat was on the same page.
So, advice for you guys (13:21):
never sell out, um, be flexible, but
stay core stay true to thethings that you feel enrich your
life.
If you're overwhelmed andburdened and just don't know
where to seek help, let us helpyou.
We can be your personalmatchmakers.
Visit us at hilalimatch.ca andbook a free call with us.
(13:46):
So the important thing is thatguys and girls, when you're
making your matrimonialprofiles, it's very easy to
portray a certain version ofyourself that is inconsistent
with who you are for the sake ofmarriage.
I I remember I to I shared thisin one of the episodes where I
did a little experiment and Ichanged uh my occupation and my
profile uh to doctor just to seewhat would happen.
(14:08):
Don't ever do that.
Just be be honest, be true.
And I know it's hard and it'sit's very tempting to say, oh,
that uh I get up and praytahjud.
Like even if you do pray fivetimes a day, are you sharing
that uh uh as a means ofleverage?
Right, to portray that you are acertain religious person?
SPEAKER_02 (14:28):
Or maybe they're sharing that so they can attract
the right person.
SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
Or that.
So intention does matter.
But yes, authenticity,authenticity, authenticity.
SPEAKER_02 (14:36):
What what does it mean when because I used to see
this on a lot of profiles, whatdoes it mean when they say I'm
looking for someone who has abalance of Dean and Dunya?
SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
Oh God.
We see that on the registrationforums all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
But like specifically matrimonial
profiles?
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
What people mean by that, let's be honest.
People mean that they they don'twant someone who's too
religious, right?
The very strict stay at home,read the Quran 24 hours a day,
don't watch TV.
SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
No one's like that.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
I'm exaggerating, but that's kind of what they
mean.
Somebody, they don't wantsomebody who's too strict and
quote unquote religious, or tosomebody who is too loose or too
liberal.
So for them, they want somebodythat's in the middle, which is
you just want a Muslim.
SPEAKER_02 (15:20):
You just want a Muslim.
SPEAKER_00 (15:21):
You just want to that that's how you and I get
it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
But to people who don't get it, they think that,
you know, Muslims come in allstrains.
That, you know, if you aresomebody who's very, very strict
and expects their wife to stayat home, cook and clean, that
you're being Muslim too.
SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
But that's that's that's tradition.
That's not being Islamicallystrict.
That's being traditionallystrict.
Yes.
You know, I think we are guiltyof that as Muslims, of creating
these labels and trying to boxeach other in these labels.
He's liberal, she's religious,he's conservative, uh, she's uh
(15:59):
I don't know, um what is theopposite of conservative?
Liberal.
Well, I just said that's all soum, yeah, we created these
boxes, these labels.
And I remember when we firststarted with Halal Maj, we used
to ask uh clients or like uhpeople we interview on the
calls, so do you consideryourself liberal or
conservative?
Until we realize that this isnot a good question.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
Yeah, it's nonsense.
It's nonsense too.
Instead, what we ask is, can youtell me a little bit about how
Islam was taught to you growingup?
So we keep it open-ended, andthat question itself reveals a
lot.
And I would recommend you guyssteal this question and ask uh
somebody you're talking to thatsame question.
SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
Or uh what role does Islam play in your life?
That's a good question, too.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
Yeah.
Um, but I want to put somecontext about what you're
saying.
Uh, specifically when it comesto wedding planning, you you see
the two different sides whenpeople start talking about
playing music at the wedding.
Um, oh, so is it gonna be amixed wedding or a segregated
wedding?
Um, is there gonna be dancing atthe wedding or is there not?
And then you kind of see thesplit.
(17:03):
Like, oh, is this person moreliberal?
Is this person more on theconservative side?
Like our plan was to keep ourwedding mixed.
I think we were planning onhaving music.
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
Just background issues, just background machine.
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
Not like uh, yeah, no rock and roll, no disco music
or anything like that.
I was very strict and and firmabout having a mixed wedding.
SPEAKER_02 (17:23):
It's because we weren't planning on having
dancing, right?
But more than all family andfriends, so just like we mix
when we go to restaurants andlike dinner parties.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
But for me, I wanted to sit on the table with my
aunts and my cousins andchit-chat and and just really
thank them for coming and andall that.
But that's that's a conversationwe're never happy.
It never happened anyway.
It never happened.
Our wedding never happenedbecause of COVID.
Damn COVID.
Anyways, um, so what were wetalking about?
SPEAKER_02 (17:49):
Something about Islam.
Just like Osna Man always says,What was I talking about?
Oh, something about Islam.
SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
So another phenomenon, I guess you could
call it phenomenon, that I wouldsee often when I was searching,
was uh girls suddenly becomingexperts on religion, like fifth
experts.
I remember I got there was thisone time I was talking to, I
think she lived in Saudi.
I was talking to a girl inSaudi.
And um Oh, really?
(18:16):
Yeah, I th I don't know if shemessaged me or I messaged her.
And um Okay, I don't know thisone.
SPEAKER_02 (18:21):
I'm listening with you guys.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
And uh somehow, some way we got into the conversation
about music, and it just becamea battle.
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
It was like this virtual battle where we just
kept going back and forth aboutthe topic of music, and she just
kept throwing the haram card atme and and kept saying, you
know, this is why it's haram andthis is why it's wrong.
And I said, Okay, you have yourreasons, I have mine.
SPEAKER_02 (18:44):
And um turned from a marriage conversation to a
debate.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
Exactly.
And the point is that don'tweaponize religiosity, right?
Just because you feel a certainway about a certain Islamic
matter, uh, when it comes to thematter of religion, just be
clear about your deal breakersand don't start shaming people
or weaponize religiosity.
You know, men start acting hyperstrict about gender
(19:10):
interactions, right?
I remember one guy had it on hisforum where I believe it was a
deal breaker if he if the girlhad non-Muslim friends.
I guess yeah, not even of thesame gender.
Yeah.
Non-Muslim friends.
SPEAKER_02 (19:27):
Or somebody mentioned something about like
uh extreme interaction withtheir cousin, male cousins or
something.
Yeah, I can't remember.
I can't remember who that was.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:36):
But yeah, it's like all of a sudden marriage just
gives us the excuse to beextreme.
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
I yeah, like you said, this is who I am, this is
what I'm looking for.
And if the other person doesn'tmeet that, then good luck to
you.
But good luck to them.
But don't start like trying toconvert them and convince them
and like judge them and makethem feel like they're just not
a good Muslim, and right?
This is not the place for it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
Definitely not.
Another point that I want tobring up is how people use
religiosity as a shortcut.
SPEAKER_02 (20:10):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:11):
Yeah, definitely.
That and we see it all the timeon our discovery calls.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
So what are you looking for?
Oh, someone religious.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Someone religious.
SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
That's it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
So what what does that even mean?
Uh, you know, like somebody whoprays.
SPEAKER_02 (20:22):
Somebody who prays who wears a hijab.
That's it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
And and for example, the story you just shared of
your cousin um that uh, youknow, or your best friend that
married her cousin who startedpraying before, but turned out
to be an abusive husband.
SPEAKER_02 (20:35):
Exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
So religiosity is not an indicator of character.
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
A guy could have ten different girls who are all
hijabis and all prey and allreligious.
Does that mean that he's gonnabe compatible with all ten?
unknown (20:49):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (20:50):
No.
Vice versa.
Girl and multiple guys who havea beard and they pray at the
masjid and they pray Tahajud.
But there are other aspects tocompatibility than religiosity.
But I think, like you said, it'sa shortcut because some people
don't want to do the work, theself-work.
Some people are just too lazy todo that.
So it's just easier to just lookfor someone religious, right?
(21:12):
And that's it.
But what what about theself-work that goes before that?
What about knowing your values,knowing what you're what you're
attracted to, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:20):
Right.
And that's what we talk about inour workshop.
That compatibility doesn't startwith the other person, it starts
with you.
It starts with knowing what yourvalues are, what your deal
breakers are, what how youenvision your life post-marriage
in terms of roles,responsibilities, all of those
things it takes time to figureout, but you have to put in that
work.
Otherwise, like you said, you'rejust gonna resort to shortcuts,
(21:43):
which is religiosity.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Besides religiosity, like having uh religious
compatibility is important.
But besides that, there'semotional intelligence, there's
communication skills, there'sphysical attraction, there is
like personal traits and habitsthat I am looking for or that I
can't tolerate, I can'ttolerate.
There is family compatibility.
There are so many things, andreligiosity is just one of them.
SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
I think one thing that gets overlooked often is
the role that family plays inthe courting phase.
Sometimes the person that youare interested in isn't
necessarily a f a reflection ofthe family's values and
practices.
Absolutely.
Sometimes there's a difference.
I've seen it with you and yourfamily, even within my family,
(22:31):
there's a huge differencebetween the kind of person I am
and how I am religiouslyoriented, um, so to speak, and
how the rest of my family is.
It's a big difference because alot of it is a result of
upbringing, exposure, umculture, things like that.
So I don't know, I'll let you gofirst.
How has that been a factor foryou though?
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
So, for example, a certain member of my family
doesn't pray, right?
And uh because people know thatlike I'm a hijabi, my mom is a
hijabi, we pray.
Um I attended Sharia school, forexample.
So they come to our house andit's time for prayer, and they
assume that the entire family isjust gonna get up and pray, and
(23:14):
they're surprised when a certainmember doesn't.
And um it could be also theother way around that someone is
not on the religious side, buttheir family is, and they get uh
boxed or or they get um or it'sassumed that they are just like
their families, and maybethey're getting proposals from
(23:34):
religious people and they're notthere yet.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
Yeah.
Um how about you?
With me, it was I think it was abit different.
Um, so yes, in my family thereis a certain member that doesn't
pray.
You know, it's amazing how muchwe have in common when we talk
about these things.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
Um but regardless, yes.
So similar to you, there's acertain member in my family that
(23:59):
doesn't pray, or at leastdoesn't pray consistently.
And uh also in terms of you knowreligious values and
expectations, I'm a bitdifferent than my siblings.
Uh meaning I have more of aninterest in learning Arabic and
you know, attending workshopsand just growing spiritually.
Um, not to say that my siblingsare bad Muslims, I'm not saying
(24:20):
that.
Um, but everybody's different.
So when I would go to meetfamilies, the interesting thing
was was that my parents, most ofmy family, was not around during
my courting phase.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
Oh, okay.
So that didn't affect you.
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
It didn't affect me as much.
So I kind of lucked out with youbecause I didn't have to go
through all those hoops andhurdles meeting the family,
saying, Oh, look, I'm a piousperson, or look, like this is my
family, and this is the kind ofvibe and energy they give.
I didn't have to go through allthat, which is a lot of what
happens, especially in Daisycircles.
SPEAKER_02 (24:53):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
In art up circles too, I'm assuming, right?
Where you just have to kind ofget a feel for the family.
Alhamdulillah, I didn't have togo through much of that, but
yeah, I can I can see how a lotof that is a concern for for
Muslims.
SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
Yeah, and you know what else?
Like you might come from areligious family, like everybody
knows this family is like on thedeen and all of that.
But you as a Muslim, you'restruggling with some doubts
about the deen.
You have some uh question,unanswered questions, you have
some internal fights going on,but you can't even express that
because come on, you come fromthis family and you have some
(25:29):
doubts about the deen.
So you immediately you get boxedinto this image of very strict,
very religious, and you're goingthrough this internal battle.
Yeah, yeah, you can't share withanyone.
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
Yeah, that's true.
And I feel like there's alsoanother part to this problem
where at the end of the daythere is something called family
compatibility, right?
Now, our situation is kind ofunique.
Like our family, like forget thefact that they can't even
communicate.
They live on differentcontinents, they barely see each
other.
Um, there's and there's just somany differences, then there are
(26:05):
similarities.
But I do feel in most cases,family compatibility does play a
part.
And it should play a part.
Of course.
Right?
Especially if the family nearlives nearby and you want to be
able to go to the family's homeand interact with them.
If they're too far on onespectrum religiously, then
that's going to create problemsand conflicts.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
Of course.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
And that's one thing.
And the second thing I want totalk about is it's unfair to the
person that's trying to getmarried if the father, for
example, is an alcoholic, or ifthe mother is dresses
immodestly, but the guy or thegirl that you're meeting is a 10
out of 10, religiously,spiritually, this and that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:46):
But you just contradicted yourself because
you said family compatibility isimportant.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
So that's not a contradiction.
That's that's just me kind ofwrestle with these two things.
Like how do we figure that out?
Right.
And do we have to compromise onone thing or the other?
Do I compromise on familycompatibility because this
person is just a perfect match?
Or do I just kind of roll thedice?
So I don't know.
I don't know how I would dealwith that situation.
SPEAKER_02 (27:10):
It might look, I don't know, it might look like
it's a dilemma, but I think ifthe person you're talking to is
like 10 out of 10, like yousaid, they're very committed to
their dean and they're verydifferent from their parents,
and they're mature enough not tobe dragged into that kind of
environment, then of coursethat's the most important thing
because at the end of the day,you're marrying the person.
(27:31):
I know the person comes as wellwith the whole package of their
family, yeah.
But at the end of the day,you're marrying the person,
you're not living with your yourwith your in-laws.
That's what matters.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah.
You know, the one thing that Iused to hate so much when I
would reach out to families andstuff.
So I'd be on these WhatsAppgroups and people would post
posts their uh profiles of theirdaughters, and of course you
would see the mother's phonenumber, the daughter, the
father's phone number.
And sometimes I'd send a textmessage saying, Oh, this is my
picture, I'm interested.
And the first thing they wouldsay, and would really piss me
(28:04):
off, what is your mother's phonenumber?
I need to talk to your mother.
What is your father's phonenumber?
I have to talk to your parents.
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
It's like you're not a grown-up.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
It's like I'm incapable of having a mature
conversation about you know whoI am, uh, what my values are,
whether or not I'm a good fitfor you, but no, you have to
talk to my parents.
And my mom, the interestingthing was that she would hate
these conversations.
She's like, I don't want to dealwith these people.
Like, you're a grown man, you doit, you deal with this.
And I'd have to respond and say,I'm sorry, but she is being
(28:32):
stubborn.
This woman wants to talk to youfor some reason.
So it's like this, this cycle orthis um, I don't know, what's
the word, this problem that wefeel that parents or just
families are a better indicatorof compatibility than the
individual himself.
And they're putting itcorrectly.
(28:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
And they judge you based on that conversation with
your mom, how it went.
Yeah.
When you might be very differentfrom your mom.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
Exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
Um I'm pretty sure you're not the only one who went
through this.
I'm pretty sure some of ourlisteners are going through
this.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
I'm sure if you're Daisy living in the West, you've
probably been through this.
Wow.
Especially if you're a guy.
And on that note, I'd love tohear.
SPEAKER_02 (29:18):
Yeah, of course.
You know what?
Actually, guys, listeners, I'm alittle bit upset with you.
Every week I'm waiting to see acomment.
Every week I'm waiting to see athought.
I'm like, I don't know, uh arewe speaking like to an empty
air, to an empty microphone, tothe to the ether?
What is it called?
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
The ether, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
Is there anyone out there?
So, yeah, if like if what we'resaying resonates with you as in
like these are the experiencesyou also are going through or
went through, please let usknow.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
Um have you been in situations where you felt uh you
were too religious for onefamily or you weren't religious?
For another family, let us know.
We'd love to hear stories.
Um, and that's how the podcastgrows.
SPEAKER_02 (30:05):
Yeah, inshallah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:05):
All right, until next time.
Assalamu alaikum.
I'm Hiba.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
And I'm Zayd.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
SPEAKER_02 (00:09):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah.
SPEAKER_02 (00:17):
Assalamu alaikum, everyone.
Welcome to a new episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Assalamu alaikum.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Okay, let's hit this off with a question.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
As always.
SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
Okay.
Would you have married a girlwho doesn't pray?
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
That was fast.
Yeah.
Okay.
Care to elaborate?
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
For me, salah is a deal breaker.
I feel like it should be formost people.
I mean, if you're practicingMuslim and you're considering
marriage and the person you talkto doesn't pray, I think that
should be of serious concern.
I mean, for me personally, yes.
I it would be a major, major redflag.
(00:57):
Because if you were born andraised into the religion and
you're not making an effort,like if you fall short, you miss
a prayer here or there, I Itotally get it.
But uh if it's a consistentpractice that you're not
praying, I don't want to bemarried to a person where I feel
like I'm imposing religion onthem.
SPEAKER_02 (01:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
Where I have to like teach them or educate them about
the importance of prayer.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
So regardless of the circumstance?
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
I can't think of a circumstance um of a Muslim
living in the West that would bepreventing them from praying.
unknown (01:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Okay, and what about you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:38):
I think I would consider the person as a whole.
I'm not saying prayer is notimportant, but if I see a person
who checks all my boxes, he's agood person, he has a Muslim
character, as in his he's kind,he's respectful, he's honest,
uh, he stays away from haram.
(01:59):
Uh he has a connection withAllah, but he doesn't pray.
But if I see someone like this,and um I see a sincere desire
for him to improve and grow.
Like, for example, he might saysomething like, I know I'm not
praying now, I know it's it'snot right.
It is something I'm strugglingwith to be consistent, it is
(02:19):
something I'm working onimproving.
I make dua every day that Allahguides me to salah, and I hope
that you can help me in thisarea, we can grow together, all
of that.
Then I know this is a person whohas an intention, who has a
desire, who's not happy wherethey are right now.
So this is someone you can workwith.
But if he says something like, Idon't pray, and please don't
(02:42):
pressure me.
This is something between me andAllah.
I'll pray when I'm when peoplesay that.
Me too.
I'll pray when the time isright.
This is who I am.
Take me as I am, or just don't.
Then that's a person I can to bewith.
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
So two things there.
Number one, it's not yourspouse's responsibility to help
you perform the basic uh ritualsof faith.
Either you come with that or youdon't.
Like, yes, it is a realisticexpectation for you to have of a
spouse to help you growspiritually, financially, um,
self-growth, uh, you know,health-wise, whatever.
(03:18):
That that's that's fair.
But to put that responsibilityon your spouse, I don't like
that, that's number one.
And number two, I feel this kindof goes against a rule that we
always share in our workshop,which is don't marry potential,
marry reality.
There's certain things that Iwould be flexible on and certain
(03:39):
things that yes, if a person isdemonstrating desire to grow or
change, um, I'd be okay withthat, like health, um, finances,
things like that.
But a lot, you know, the onething that um the one of the
most important things thatseparates us from other faiths
or other groups, it's just it'shard for me to overlook that.
SPEAKER_02 (04:02):
Okay, you know what?
This just uh reminded me ofsomething.
So my best friend she wastalking to her cousin, they
sarcastically or randomly, theymet online because he grew up in
a different place and all ofthat.
And um he didn't pray.
Her dad said, Absolutely not.
(04:23):
I'm not gonna give you away to aguy who doesn't pray.
The guy started to pray.
And as far as I know, he wasconsistent with his prayers.
She married him.
Turns out he's an abusivehusband, and now she's divorced
with two kids.
Extremely abusive.
So you see, prayer is noteverything.
And the being pushed and beingand being pushed to pray just to
(04:47):
please the other person doesn'tnecessarily guarantee a good
character, a good marriage, agood future.
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
That's not what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02 (04:55):
I know, I know.
But I'm just talking aboutanother extreme.
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
I feel like it's the basics for me.
Like for example, uh I know I'mkind of splitting hairs, but the
for example, we know in Islamthe basic responsibility for a
man has to be uh to be able toprovide food, shelter, clothing,
general care for wife.
That's like the basic, basiccriteria.
For me, my personal basiccriteria, or one of them, is
(05:23):
somebody who prays, who has abasic understanding of their
faith.
And if they don't have that,like God, I can't teach you.
But it doesn't mean just becauseI'm not marrying a student.
SPEAKER_02 (05:36):
But just because they don't pray, it doesn't mean
they don't have a basicunderstanding.
It means that they arestruggling with something.
They might be working on it,they might be making dua and
like praying to Allah every day.
Oh Allah, guide me to pray.
I want to pray, I want tocommit, guide me to you.
It doesn't mean they don't havethat.
Maybe they just lack in uhdiscipline.
(05:57):
Maybe they didn't grow up in theright environment.
Maybe they are struggling withsome like personal issues,
right?
So I feel that just like puttinguh this general statement that
no, I won't marry a somebody whodoesn't pray is just unfair.
Because it just gives thisimpression that everyone who
(06:17):
doesn't pray have no basicunderstanding of their deen,
have no connection to Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala, they are
not proud of their deen, andthat's not the case.
SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
I don't know.
Like, what reason can youpossibly have not to pray?
Like how like how hard is it tojust get up with doo?
Like, I know I'm oversimplifyingit, but we're not living in a
war-torn country, we're notliving in a rocket.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
You know what?
Some people used to pray andthen stopped praying because
they because of trauma.
Because of trauma or becausethey feel they're just
performing, they don't feel anytype of khushua.
You know, we go in our liveswith ups and downs in our deen,
with our deen.
So they decided, no, I'm notgonna go back to praying until I
feel that my heart is connected.
(07:04):
And that's not right.
But that's a different personthan somebody who just doesn't
pray because they don't careabout prayer.
SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
So there are different some people maybe go
through uh I don't know, uh acrisis.
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Uh, I feel like you're way more flexible than I
am.
SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
I don't know.
I just like to give people thebenefit of the doubt and just
understand that people come indifferent uh shapes and forms
and circumstances and lifeexperiences and I guess I would
I wouldn't stop theconversation, but I would love
to learn more and understandwhat's really going on there.
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
And if I'm hearing something like you just shared
where, you know, they're kind ofshutting off the conversation by
saying, Oh, don't judge me forit, it's between me and Allah.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
Okay, let me ask you a question.
Would you marry an alcoholaddict Muslim, but uh he's
showing a desire to change?
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
Why?
SPEAKER_02 (08:00):
It's not out of judgment or anything, but
because addiction is a disease.
Get help, get well how I don'tI'm not I don't buy the fact
that it's a disease.
Okay, that's another discussionfor another day.
Because if we start uh I'm notsaying it's a disease that you
just you're genetically bornwith or like you just get like a
(08:22):
could something contagious, butonce your brain is just uh
programmed to wanting that uhthat uh alcohol and that
intoxication, then uh like it'suh all chemicals in the brain.
But yeah, get well, have sometime, not just like finish a
program and then you're ready.
No, get well, have supportsystem, have some time to just
(08:45):
work on yourself, and then we'llsee.
But doing a haram is differentfrom not doing a fart.
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Okay, fair point, but it is still a sin.
Yes at the end of the day.
Yeah, so you would be okay withsomebody not praying, but you
would not be okay with somebodydrinking.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Just like I said, I'm okay.
I I'll be open to talking tosomeone who doesn't pray, who's
showing a desire, who's showingan intention, who's making dua,
who wants to improve, and whorealizes they're doing something
wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
The alcoholic is trying to do the same thing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
Yeah, but uh but but addiction is not just a decision
you make, okay, tomorrow I'm I'mgonna stop the drinking.
SPEAKER_00 (09:30):
He's taking gradual steps, he's showing a sincere
desire.
SPEAKER_02 (09:33):
Yes, but until until you're completely cured, until
you're completely sober, youthere's no guarantee you're not
gonna slip back.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
There's no guarantee the person's gonna slip back
spiritually and stop raining.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
Well, there's no guarantee that uh a half or a
niqhabi is just gonna remove thethe thing and just uh uh stop
rain.
It happens.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Okay, now we're just playing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
No, no, no.
But regardless, regardless.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
Yeah, regardless.
So the point is that we seethese common patterns among
clients all the time.
One of them being this constantneed to uh put yourself in a
certain box.
So, for example, in my personallife, when I was trying to get
married, I always felt like Ididn't fit into certain boxes.
People have had these certainexpectations of me when I was
(10:19):
trying to get married.
And I'm sure for those of youguys that are on your journey
trying to get married, you'veprobably faced these kinds of
circumstances where you knowyou're not religious enough for
this family, you're not uhfinancially well enough for this
family, you're not educatedenough for this family, you
don't have that medical degree,that law degree, engineering
degree, whatever it is.
And so you're always striving tomeet certain expectations when
(10:41):
at the end of the day, n none ofthis goes in line with our deen.
Like for me, like Alhamdulillah,I went to a private Islamic
school most of my life.
I completed my hifs, I have abasic understanding of Arabic, I
would consistently attendworkshops and conventions, and
so I felt like like religiouslythat you know maybe I was going
(11:03):
a maybe uh one or two stepsbeyond like the average person.
Yet for some reason some peoplejust felt I wasn't religious
enough.
And uh it was just it was just astrange phenomenon.
SPEAKER_02 (11:16):
Why is that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
Because I I just wanted to know what else I could
do.
Like, do I need to go become analim?
Do I need to go like um learntafsir of the Qur'an?
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
No, no, no.
I mean, why did some peoplethink you're not religious
enough?
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Because at least in Chicago, there's a strong um
what do you call TJ community,the Blih Jamat community.
And so I would see a lot ofthose families sometimes.
Like, for example, I would go tothe family, the the family's
house, and I'd be sitting there,and you would just get this vibe
and energy that they're just avery hardcore um religious
(11:52):
family, right?
Where there's the TV's not on,there's Quranic scriptures all
around, there's a mushaf onevery shelf, the Adan is playing
every five minutes.
I don't know why.
Okay.
Um, the father's got a beardthat goes down to his knees, and
the mother's in a khabi, andyou're just like, oh boy, I
(12:13):
don't know.
I don't know if I'm gonnasurvive this.
Because that's that's just notme.
Oh, and the other reason isbecause somehow, somehow, people
would find out that I was moreinclined towards the arts and I
would listen to music.
And uh, right.
So when people would hear thesethings, they would think, oh
man, this guy's one of those uhwishy-washy Muslims, you know,
(12:34):
he's one of those weekendMuslims, and which I wasn't, you
know.
I was just like, this is wheremy heart is, and I know what's
haram and halal.
I have a basic understanding ofmy deen, but and I know the
things that I'm doing are notforbidden in my faith.
You know, the the thing that Ican proudly say about my journey
without any arrogance is that Inever sold out.
(12:55):
Alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah, Inever sold out for the
education, I never sold out formoney, I never sold out for
religion, I never tried to besomething I wasn't.
I always stay true to what Ilove, which was art.
I've always loved music, and uhI've never veered away from
that.
And so that's why when I wastalking to you, that was one of
the first questions I asked you.
(13:15):
Like, how do you feel about art?
How do you feel about music?
Right.
Alhamdulillah, I found somebodythat was on the same page.
So, advice for you guys (13:21):
never sell out, um, be flexible, but
stay core stay true to thethings that you feel enrich your
life.
If you're overwhelmed andburdened and just don't know
where to seek help, let us helpyou.
We can be your personalmatchmakers.
Visit us at hilalimatch.ca andbook a free call with us.
(13:46):
So the important thing is thatguys and girls, when you're
making your matrimonialprofiles, it's very easy to
portray a certain version ofyourself that is inconsistent
with who you are for the sake ofmarriage.
I I remember I to I shared thisin one of the episodes where I
did a little experiment and Ichanged uh my occupation and my
profile uh to doctor just to seewhat would happen.
(14:08):
Don't ever do that.
Just be be honest, be true.
And I know it's hard and it'sit's very tempting to say, oh,
that uh I get up and praytahjud.
Like even if you do pray fivetimes a day, are you sharing
that uh uh as a means ofleverage?
Right, to portray that you are acertain religious person?
SPEAKER_02 (14:28):
Or maybe they're sharing that so they can attract
the right person.
SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
Or that.
So intention does matter.
But yes, authenticity,authenticity, authenticity.
SPEAKER_02 (14:36):
What what does it mean when because I used to see
this on a lot of profiles, whatdoes it mean when they say I'm
looking for someone who has abalance of Dean and Dunya?
SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
Oh God.
We see that on the registrationforums all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
But like specifically matrimonial
profiles?
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
What people mean by that, let's be honest.
People mean that they they don'twant someone who's too
religious, right?
The very strict stay at home,read the Quran 24 hours a day,
don't watch TV.
SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
No one's like that.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
I'm exaggerating, but that's kind of what they
mean.
Somebody, they don't wantsomebody who's too strict and
quote unquote religious, or tosomebody who is too loose or too
liberal.
So for them, they want somebodythat's in the middle, which is
you just want a Muslim.
SPEAKER_02 (15:20):
You just want a Muslim.
SPEAKER_00 (15:21):
You just want to that that's how you and I get
it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
But to people who don't get it, they think that,
you know, Muslims come in allstrains.
That, you know, if you aresomebody who's very, very strict
and expects their wife to stayat home, cook and clean, that
you're being Muslim too.
SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
But that's that's that's tradition.
That's not being Islamicallystrict.
That's being traditionallystrict.
Yes.
You know, I think we are guiltyof that as Muslims, of creating
these labels and trying to boxeach other in these labels.
He's liberal, she's religious,he's conservative, uh, she's uh
(15:59):
I don't know, um what is theopposite of conservative?
Liberal.
Well, I just said that's all soum, yeah, we created these
boxes, these labels.
And I remember when we firststarted with Halal Maj, we used
to ask uh clients or like uhpeople we interview on the
calls, so do you consideryourself liberal or
conservative?
Until we realize that this isnot a good question.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
Yeah, it's nonsense.
It's nonsense too.
Instead, what we ask is, can youtell me a little bit about how
Islam was taught to you growingup?
So we keep it open-ended, andthat question itself reveals a
lot.
And I would recommend you guyssteal this question and ask uh
somebody you're talking to thatsame question.
SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
Or uh what role does Islam play in your life?
That's a good question, too.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
Yeah.
Um, but I want to put somecontext about what you're
saying.
Uh, specifically when it comesto wedding planning, you you see
the two different sides whenpeople start talking about
playing music at the wedding.
Um, oh, so is it gonna be amixed wedding or a segregated
wedding?
Um, is there gonna be dancing atthe wedding or is there not?
And then you kind of see thesplit.
(17:03):
Like, oh, is this person moreliberal?
Is this person more on theconservative side?
Like our plan was to keep ourwedding mixed.
I think we were planning onhaving music.
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
Just background issues, just background machine.
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
Not like uh, yeah, no rock and roll, no disco music
or anything like that.
I was very strict and and firmabout having a mixed wedding.
SPEAKER_02 (17:23):
It's because we weren't planning on having
dancing, right?
But more than all family andfriends, so just like we mix
when we go to restaurants andlike dinner parties.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
But for me, I wanted to sit on the table with my
aunts and my cousins andchit-chat and and just really
thank them for coming and andall that.
But that's that's a conversationwe're never happy.
It never happened anyway.
It never happened.
Our wedding never happenedbecause of COVID.
Damn COVID.
Anyways, um, so what were wetalking about?
SPEAKER_02 (17:49):
Something about Islam.
Just like Osna Man always says,What was I talking about?
Oh, something about Islam.
SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
So another phenomenon, I guess you could
call it phenomenon, that I wouldsee often when I was searching,
was uh girls suddenly becomingexperts on religion, like fifth
experts.
I remember I got there was thisone time I was talking to, I
think she lived in Saudi.
I was talking to a girl inSaudi.
And um Oh, really?
(18:16):
Yeah, I th I don't know if shemessaged me or I messaged her.
And um Okay, I don't know thisone.
SPEAKER_02 (18:21):
I'm listening with you guys.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
And uh somehow, some way we got into the conversation
about music, and it just becamea battle.
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
It was like this virtual battle where we just
kept going back and forth aboutthe topic of music, and she just
kept throwing the haram card atme and and kept saying, you
know, this is why it's haram andthis is why it's wrong.
And I said, Okay, you have yourreasons, I have mine.
SPEAKER_02 (18:44):
And um turned from a marriage conversation to a
debate.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
Exactly.
And the point is that don'tweaponize religiosity, right?
Just because you feel a certainway about a certain Islamic
matter, uh, when it comes to thematter of religion, just be
clear about your deal breakersand don't start shaming people
or weaponize religiosity.
You know, men start acting hyperstrict about gender
(19:10):
interactions, right?
I remember one guy had it on hisforum where I believe it was a
deal breaker if he if the girlhad non-Muslim friends.
I guess yeah, not even of thesame gender.
Yeah.
Non-Muslim friends.
SPEAKER_02 (19:27):
Or somebody mentioned something about like
uh extreme interaction withtheir cousin, male cousins or
something.
Yeah, I can't remember.
I can't remember who that was.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:36):
But yeah, it's like all of a sudden marriage just
gives us the excuse to beextreme.
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
I yeah, like you said, this is who I am, this is
what I'm looking for.
And if the other person doesn'tmeet that, then good luck to
you.
But good luck to them.
But don't start like trying toconvert them and convince them
and like judge them and makethem feel like they're just not
a good Muslim, and right?
This is not the place for it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
Definitely not.
Another point that I want tobring up is how people use
religiosity as a shortcut.
SPEAKER_02 (20:10):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:11):
Yeah, definitely.
That and we see it all the timeon our discovery calls.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
So what are you looking for?
Oh, someone religious.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Someone religious.
SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
That's it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
So what what does that even mean?
Uh, you know, like somebody whoprays.
SPEAKER_02 (20:22):
Somebody who prays who wears a hijab.
That's it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
And and for example, the story you just shared of
your cousin um that uh, youknow, or your best friend that
married her cousin who startedpraying before, but turned out
to be an abusive husband.
SPEAKER_02 (20:35):
Exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
So religiosity is not an indicator of character.
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
A guy could have ten different girls who are all
hijabis and all prey and allreligious.
Does that mean that he's gonnabe compatible with all ten?
unknown (20:49):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (20:50):
No.
Vice versa.
Girl and multiple guys who havea beard and they pray at the
masjid and they pray Tahajud.
But there are other aspects tocompatibility than religiosity.
But I think, like you said, it'sa shortcut because some people
don't want to do the work, theself-work.
Some people are just too lazy todo that.
So it's just easier to just lookfor someone religious, right?
(21:12):
And that's it.
But what what about theself-work that goes before that?
What about knowing your values,knowing what you're what you're
attracted to, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:20):
Right.
And that's what we talk about inour workshop.
That compatibility doesn't startwith the other person, it starts
with you.
It starts with knowing what yourvalues are, what your deal
breakers are, what how youenvision your life post-marriage
in terms of roles,responsibilities, all of those
things it takes time to figureout, but you have to put in that
work.
Otherwise, like you said, you'rejust gonna resort to shortcuts,
(21:43):
which is religiosity.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Besides religiosity, like having uh religious
compatibility is important.
But besides that, there'semotional intelligence, there's
communication skills, there'sphysical attraction, there is
like personal traits and habitsthat I am looking for or that I
can't tolerate, I can'ttolerate.
There is family compatibility.
There are so many things, andreligiosity is just one of them.
SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
I think one thing that gets overlooked often is
the role that family plays inthe courting phase.
Sometimes the person that youare interested in isn't
necessarily a f a reflection ofthe family's values and
practices.
Absolutely.
Sometimes there's a difference.
I've seen it with you and yourfamily, even within my family,
(22:31):
there's a huge differencebetween the kind of person I am
and how I am religiouslyoriented, um, so to speak, and
how the rest of my family is.
It's a big difference because alot of it is a result of
upbringing, exposure, umculture, things like that.
So I don't know, I'll let you gofirst.
How has that been a factor foryou though?
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
So, for example, a certain member of my family
doesn't pray, right?
And uh because people know thatlike I'm a hijabi, my mom is a
hijabi, we pray.
Um I attended Sharia school, forexample.
So they come to our house andit's time for prayer, and they
assume that the entire family isjust gonna get up and pray, and
(23:14):
they're surprised when a certainmember doesn't.
And um it could be also theother way around that someone is
not on the religious side, buttheir family is, and they get uh
boxed or or they get um or it'sassumed that they are just like
their families, and maybethey're getting proposals from
(23:34):
religious people and they're notthere yet.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
Yeah.
Um how about you?
With me, it was I think it was abit different.
Um, so yes, in my family thereis a certain member that doesn't
pray.
You know, it's amazing how muchwe have in common when we talk
about these things.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
Um but regardless, yes.
So similar to you, there's acertain member in my family that
(23:59):
doesn't pray, or at leastdoesn't pray consistently.
And uh also in terms of you knowreligious values and
expectations, I'm a bitdifferent than my siblings.
Uh meaning I have more of aninterest in learning Arabic and
you know, attending workshopsand just growing spiritually.
Um, not to say that my siblingsare bad Muslims, I'm not saying
(24:20):
that.
Um, but everybody's different.
So when I would go to meetfamilies, the interesting thing
was was that my parents, most ofmy family, was not around during
my courting phase.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
Oh, okay.
So that didn't affect you.
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
It didn't affect me as much.
So I kind of lucked out with youbecause I didn't have to go
through all those hoops andhurdles meeting the family,
saying, Oh, look, I'm a piousperson, or look, like this is my
family, and this is the kind ofvibe and energy they give.
I didn't have to go through allthat, which is a lot of what
happens, especially in Daisycircles.
SPEAKER_02 (24:53):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
In art up circles too, I'm assuming, right?
Where you just have to kind ofget a feel for the family.
Alhamdulillah, I didn't have togo through much of that, but
yeah, I can I can see how a lotof that is a concern for for
Muslims.
SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
Yeah, and you know what else?
Like you might come from areligious family, like everybody
knows this family is like on thedeen and all of that.
But you as a Muslim, you'restruggling with some doubts
about the deen.
You have some uh question,unanswered questions, you have
some internal fights going on,but you can't even express that
because come on, you come fromthis family and you have some
(25:29):
doubts about the deen.
So you immediately you get boxedinto this image of very strict,
very religious, and you're goingthrough this internal battle.
Yeah, yeah, you can't share withanyone.
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
Yeah, that's true.
And I feel like there's alsoanother part to this problem
where at the end of the daythere is something called family
compatibility, right?
Now, our situation is kind ofunique.
Like our family, like forget thefact that they can't even
communicate.
They live on differentcontinents, they barely see each
other.
Um, there's and there's just somany differences, then there are
(26:05):
similarities.
But I do feel in most cases,family compatibility does play a
part.
And it should play a part.
Of course.
Right?
Especially if the family nearlives nearby and you want to be
able to go to the family's homeand interact with them.
If they're too far on onespectrum religiously, then
that's going to create problemsand conflicts.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
Of course.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
And that's one thing.
And the second thing I want totalk about is it's unfair to the
person that's trying to getmarried if the father, for
example, is an alcoholic, or ifthe mother is dresses
immodestly, but the guy or thegirl that you're meeting is a 10
out of 10, religiously,spiritually, this and that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:46):
But you just contradicted yourself because
you said family compatibility isimportant.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
So that's not a contradiction.
That's that's just me kind ofwrestle with these two things.
Like how do we figure that out?
Right.
And do we have to compromise onone thing or the other?
Do I compromise on familycompatibility because this
person is just a perfect match?
Or do I just kind of roll thedice?
So I don't know.
I don't know how I would dealwith that situation.
SPEAKER_02 (27:10):
It might look, I don't know, it might look like
it's a dilemma, but I think ifthe person you're talking to is
like 10 out of 10, like yousaid, they're very committed to
their dean and they're verydifferent from their parents,
and they're mature enough not tobe dragged into that kind of
environment, then of coursethat's the most important thing
because at the end of the day,you're marrying the person.
(27:31):
I know the person comes as wellwith the whole package of their
family, yeah.
But at the end of the day,you're marrying the person,
you're not living with your yourwith your in-laws.
That's what matters.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah.
You know, the one thing that Iused to hate so much when I
would reach out to families andstuff.
So I'd be on these WhatsAppgroups and people would post
posts their uh profiles of theirdaughters, and of course you
would see the mother's phonenumber, the daughter, the
father's phone number.
And sometimes I'd send a textmessage saying, Oh, this is my
picture, I'm interested.
And the first thing they wouldsay, and would really piss me
(28:04):
off, what is your mother's phonenumber?
I need to talk to your mother.
What is your father's phonenumber?
I have to talk to your parents.
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
It's like you're not a grown-up.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
It's like I'm incapable of having a mature
conversation about you know whoI am, uh, what my values are,
whether or not I'm a good fitfor you, but no, you have to
talk to my parents.
And my mom, the interestingthing was that she would hate
these conversations.
She's like, I don't want to dealwith these people.
Like, you're a grown man, you doit, you deal with this.
And I'd have to respond and say,I'm sorry, but she is being
(28:32):
stubborn.
This woman wants to talk to youfor some reason.
So it's like this, this cycle orthis um, I don't know, what's
the word, this problem that wefeel that parents or just
families are a better indicatorof compatibility than the
individual himself.
And they're putting itcorrectly.
(28:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
And they judge you based on that conversation with
your mom, how it went.
Yeah.
When you might be very differentfrom your mom.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
Exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
Um I'm pretty sure you're not the only one who went
through this.
I'm pretty sure some of ourlisteners are going through
this.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
I'm sure if you're Daisy living in the West, you've
probably been through this.
Wow.
Especially if you're a guy.
And on that note, I'd love tohear.
SPEAKER_02 (29:18):
Yeah, of course.
You know what?
Actually, guys, listeners, I'm alittle bit upset with you.
Every week I'm waiting to see acomment.
Every week I'm waiting to see athought.
I'm like, I don't know, uh arewe speaking like to an empty
air, to an empty microphone, tothe to the ether?
What is it called?
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
The ether, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
Is there anyone out there?
So, yeah, if like if what we'resaying resonates with you as in
like these are the experiencesyou also are going through or
went through, please let usknow.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
Um have you been in situations where you felt uh you
were too religious for onefamily or you weren't religious?
For another family, let us know.
We'd love to hear stories.
Um, and that's how the podcastgrows.
SPEAKER_02 (30:05):
Yeah, inshallah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:05):
All right, until next time.
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